yep
#pvp
severe helm
hybrid palm
Not in the obvious form addons present it in
hidden moth
also dont need a tracker to know hey every 1 min i have disarm and every 1 min x class has this i should save disarm for their cd
dapper chasm
also dont need a tracker to know hey every 1 min i have disarm and every 1 min x...
Pretty much this
hybrid palm
No, addons make the game staring at icon n seconds on the icon
dapper chasm
Like, I get stuff like psychic scream if you're on top of the healer
But other stuff doesn't need much tracking
severe helm
the whole meta of pvp is using your offensives to force their defensives til you get an opportunity where you have an offensive and they dont have a defensive(a win condition)
thats like pvp 101
severe helm
No, addons make the game staring at icon n seconds on the icon
so youd rather just spam abilities aimlessly and pray to win on accident?
thats not really pvp thats just a random bg
dapper chasm
Arena is chess, addons are the sexy marble pieces vs the tiny travel pack chess kit
Yeah, you might have to squint, but either way you're playing chess
hybrid palm
so youd rather just spam abilities aimlessly and pray to win on accident?
Hmm ok, compelling, but not convinced enough, because it looks like it comes down to building a decent UI etc
severe helm
Hmm ok, compelling, but not convinced enough, because it looks like it comes dow...
yeah thats just modern wow
severe helm
a good ui is part of being good at wow
you can compensate for a bad ui to some extent with just raw skill
or by being VERY used to the default ui
dapper chasm
This is my UI - it is fully customised. Every single piece of the base UI has been changed. What are you seeing here that you wont see on your base blizzard UI?
severe helm
This is my UI - it is fully customised. Every single piece of the base UI has be...
I mean yeah but theres def ways to see way more that he probably doesnt see
dapper chasm
Not needed for 3k as far as I'm concerned
So not needed at all
Oh, I have DR tracker hidden there
As no DRs
severe helm
"needed" isnt the question here
its "is it an advantage"
which id argue a good ui is
not saying you HAVE to have it
you could in theory get r1 with default ui
dapper chasm
My UI gives me an advantage because it was made by someone with great visual taste
chrome schooner
Addons do allow too much (imo), but saying just because it's an addon icon it's not pvp i just ... stupid ? Idk, you look at icons and frames and colors and listen to sounds regardless of whether you use the base UI or not
severe helm
that doesnt change the fact that it will help your awareness more often than not by adding to the base ui
chrome schooner
They just show differently
Addons make for an easier (too easy ?) way to start tracking things
dapper chasm
I would argue tracking should be as easy as possible - and allow a purer strategy and mechanics game
chrome schooner
But for instance, I know that I don't use most of what my addons show me, because I learned with the base game
severe helm
I think the "challenge" of pvp shouldnt be trying to find the enemies offensive buff in the list of 50 trash buffs
imo addons make pvp better
they shift the difficulty to actually how you respond to cds
instead of playing wheres waldo in the ui
dapper chasm
imo addons make pvp better
But only because blizzard sucks ass at UI design
severe helm
no addon is going to carry you
chrome schooner
But recognizing deathmark instantly due to sound + graphical effect in the middle of arena chaos does not necessarily make me better than someone who sees it on the weakaura
severe helm
no matter how good your ui is you wont get boosted to r1
severe helm
But recognizing deathmark instantly due to sound + graphical effect in the middl...
exactly
chrome schooner
It's just that there should be a limit to what addons allow
Having things flash up + yell at you when people pop things not even in your los maybe is a bit over the top for instance
but highlighting a buff he's obviously going to use ...
severe helm
yeah problem is how that biases certain specs/mechanics
dapper chasm
Can we all agree that my UI is hella pretty and is the best here?
sharp sierra
hows assass looking for arena this season?
gleaming pawn
Same as last season
severe helm
idk why your action bars are so low down
hybrid palm
Can we all agree that my UI is hella pretty and is the best here?
Mine?
gleaming pawn
Can we all agree that my UI is hella pretty and is the best here?
I refuse
dapper chasm
Look at that sexy-ass dragonriding meter
hybrid palm
That's how I play 😄
dapper chasm
I don't play
I kill
Look at the simplicity of my Shadowcraft and Supercharger tracking
severe helm
I hate non default cps honestly
dapper chasm
The subtle rainbow colouring
severe helm
they always look so tacky to me
gleaming pawn
Simple would be changing the combo point for super charge
dapper chasm
It's disgusting
severe helm
ignore the minimap on the left that was on from blitz
dapper chasm
I'm trying to ignore all of it
severe helm
Yeah I want to know whats happening lol
track enemy cds/cc so im not getting gimped on my crackshot windows
severe helm
oh do you just have a big omnibar
I honestly cant deal with omnibar its too disorganized
I wana be able to look at the enemy gladius and see if theyre out of defensives
so I know whos a good kill target
dapper chasm
Hell no, my omnibar is individual
I just have it hidden unless on CD
Frankly I can keep track without it, so it's just there for completion's sake
hybrid palm
This is mine with arena frames up - subtle
If mage was enemy n use veins where would it be visible in this ui
dapper chasm
No, not unless I have them targeted
hybrid palm
I see
dapper chasm
See my target at bottom there?
Important buffs are a little larger, I'll use feint now to show
chrome schooner
The thing about big CDs is that if you need to see them then your issue with PvP is that you don't know what's happening, not that you don't track CDs
There aren't that many people that track veins or incarn or those
dapper chasm
Actually fuck it, don't wana spam screenshots here
chrome schooner
Because everyone knows when people are going to use them so there's no point
hybrid palm
There aren't that many people that track veins or incarn or those
Then how do I always get cc spammed on 2nd blades 😄
chrome schooner
People don't need 36 weakauras to see shadowblades
dapper chasm
Then how do I always get cc spammed on 2nd blades 😄
My brother in Christ, you're glowing purple
cyan gate
My b
chrome schooner
You're super purple + people know the CD
You use it the 1st time
Then they know oh, in about 3-4 DRs he uses it again
So they are watchful
hybrid palm
No even if I use without dance,vtrust me 😄
chrome schooner
And?
chrome schooner
You have a buff
dapper chasm
So, you're telling me you don't watch animations?
chrome schooner
Believe it or not but ppl look at buffs with the base UI too
dapper chasm
What do you do, just guess when paladin bubbles?
chrome schooner
You don't need an addon
dapper chasm
When the demon hunter leaps into heaven itself, do you go "I wish I had an addon to track this"
hybrid palm
What do you do, just guess when paladin bubbles?
Yes
hybrid palm
When the demon hunter leaps into heaven itself, do you go "I wish I had an addon...
No
chrome schooner
You seem to not look much at what the base UI offers for someone who condemns looking at what addons would show
if you don't wanna look at addons
and also don't look at the base game
then you have the monitor off
'cause there's nothing else
dapper chasm
That's pure PvP
Distilled to its very essence
He's a 100 years ahead of all of us
gleaming pawn
@chrome schooner are you sticking with Assa again this season?
chrome schooner
mmh yes but if time permits I'd like to try to play something else a bit seriously as well
I don't know if that'd be a rogue spec or something else entirely though
dapper chasm
It's good to explore beyond just playing with your ass
stoic spruce
Shade can you send a message to blizz asking take outlaw fun again plz
severe helm
And how do they know blades is up
it has an audio cue
chrome schooner
I guess some people enjoyed it last season :p
severe helm
Outlaw is super fun rn in pvp
chrome schooner
Well of course it's cheating
severe helm
I personally miss shadowstep a lot though
chrome schooner
It got to be at least fun
severe helm
its fun even when its not strong haha
chrome schooner
Well it's not yet not been strong in its current design
severe helm
since the rework I just cant get away from it
chrome schooner
So it's hard to know :p
severe helm
it wasnt strong s4 df
it had one of the lowest cutoffs in solo shuff
and very low representation in 3s
chrome schooner
Yet the highest rogues in 3v3 were outlaw, not assa or sub
severe helm
nah in s4 it wa sall assa
severe helm
honestly I think top 0.1% isnt a good indicator
chrome schooner
even when it's way way worse it's more played
chrome schooner
doesn't make it better
severe helm
so its not relevant
chrome schooner
of course it's relevant
pastel burrow
I personally miss shadowstep a lot though
Having both shadowstep and hook was so good
severe helm
theres no reason to discuss like whats strong in awc
pastel burrow
I miss it so bad
chrome schooner
because it shows the potential of specs
severe helm
doesnt matter if that potential is never recognized in most games
chrome schooner
and...?
severe helm
like ret is never in awc
chrome schooner
it doesn't have to be
severe helm
but its still dominating the bracket
but if you only balanced around awc
youd have some specs just ruining the game in most of the ladder
severe helm
yeah im giving it as an example
chrome schooner
well i'm not the one using it as example so
severe helm
r1 level play is a bad thing to balance around imo
chrome schooner
"admit" is a bit of a stretch :p
I don't agree
awc and r1 are different things
severe helm
I know haha
chrome schooner
awc is a tournament
you get to build the perfect character
you pick specific comps
specific maps
severe helm
I mean
chrome schooner
and most importantly, if you lose to 1 team playing X comp you don't get to relog with the counter and face them over and over
severe helm
You know what the ladder is running so you pick whats good against the rest of the ladder
chrome schooner
ladder is different from tournament
severe helm
sometimes whats good is whats strong against what else is popular
chrome schooner
most people pick a comp that's good and they play it
they don't relog to counters mid session
no one does that
dapper chasm
btw is monk the new warrior? All I see is monks
chrome schooner
maybe 1 team of crazy ppl
severe helm
I just think theres often a lot of outliers in r1 range
chrome schooner
a few
severe helm
like on NA kubzy is almost always playing arcane outlaw rdruid and at the top of the ladder
stoic spruce
All they gotta do is buff energy regen outside of adr and buff gsw please blizz
severe helm
how many people get r1 though lol isnt it like a couple hundred?
thats a reaaaaaally small sample size
chrome schooner
if every single rogue who's high rated, barring 1 exception, picks a spec to play at r1 elo
CHANCES ARE the spec is better
severe helm
or it has a higher skill cap
chrome schooner
it doesn't matter that it's not as popular on 1600
people aren't fair play
they don't picka weaker spec for fun
they pick what they think wins the most
severe helm
I mean
people def do
kubzy playing arcane
instead of frost
flop playing druid
over hpal
people often times pick familiarity over strength
jolly sierra
what the fuck happened here
severe helm
esp at r1 level
jolly sierra
wtf was that arguing
chrome schooner
it's a handful of examples that drown in the amount of people who compete for titles
stoic spruce
what the fuck happened here
I said outlaw wasn't fun and it spiraled into something else
vocal surge
Lol
stoic spruce
Real
severe helm
yeah just chattin lol
jolly sierra
I said outlaw wasn't fun and it spiraled into something else
do a summary
i wanna gossip
potent pivot
chrome schooner
over hpal
to come back to it
okay sure 1 guy played his rdruid
now how many people chose to play hpal over anything else when it was not their main
severe helm
mmh?
chrome schooner
gotta choose one
dapper chasm
love a good 2v1
severe helm
not sure where to get stats from specific seasons
hybrid palm
Does losing rank after its greyed out for season matter in any way 😄
severe helm
check pvp doesnt have and drustvar only has recent
chrome schooner
ah well it's not important anyway
severe helm
leme check seramate
chrome schooner
but my point is now you see for example 60 hpal 1 hpriest
stoic spruce
Okay so I said "shade tell blizz to make outlaw fun again" ver batim and mewo was all like "☝️🤓 erm actually it's already fun for me" (also ver batim) and then Shade said it hasn't been strong in its current form and then mewo brought up cutoffs and now here we are.
chrome schooner
you don't need stats to know that in sl and df there were seasons with probably exactly the opposite
stoic spruce
Okay so I said "shade tell blizz to make outlaw fun again" ver batim and mewo w...
@jolly sierra
chrome schooner
people play what they think wins the most, and if a handful people are still holding true to their mains, or play underdogs on purpose for fun and/or content it's really good for the game
but it doesn't make their specs on par with what everyone else has been playing
dapper chasm
People don't play what wins the most, they play what wins the most the easiest
severe helm
people play what they think wins the most, and if a handful people are still hol...
people play what they think they can win the most with so that does factor their familiarity/expertise on things
chrome schooner
yes
but if you look at really goodplayers, most of them can play many things really well
severe helm
like a random war r1 player isnt swapping to outlaw cuz they think its better
cuz they arent just gona pick it up in 1 season
chrome schooner
so they end up playing what's best
severe helm
and be more valuable with it
severe helm
nah
chrome schooner
classes aren't very complex anymore
severe helm
wed see much less diversity if that were true
classes are more complex than they have ever been lol
what
jolly sierra
Okay so I said "shade tell blizz to make outlaw fun again" ver batim and mewo w...
they were arguing about UI too i watched
severe helm
I just showed it does
stoic spruce
they were arguing about UI too i watched
That was before my time
chrome schooner
because they care too much
chrome schooner
do you know how many feral ele hpal teams were queuing every evening for the last 2 weeks on eu
severe helm
not be playing outlaw
stoic spruce
Been in acherus arguing over rice in the pvp channel
severe helm
if your theory was true
chrome schooner
it was more than hald of the teams
severe helm
EU top 100
severe helm
36% of ranged players are ele
severe helm
36% of ranged
chrome schooner
that's such a HUGE number
as for rogues, 10 out of 13 are outlaw
there are 14 ferals and 1 warrior
severe helm
yeah top 100 is an extremely small subset
chrome schooner
warrior is SO MUCH more popular than feral
yes but it's just people who take the specs to their highest potential for a given season
severe helm
yeah cuz people dont pick whats best
severe helm
Shadenox — Today at 4:51 PM
warrior is SO MUCH more popular than feral
chrome schooner
??
severe helm
but you said people pick wahts best
chrome schooner
of you look at the overall wow population
severe helm
so its better?
chrome schooner
and most likely always will be
yet
you look at top ladder
and it's only feral
almost no warriors
there are insane warrior players in the game
where are they
they aren't here
chrome schooner
because their beloved shaman friends are playing with ferals
why ?
because it's easier
and stronger
and people are lame like that
sure you'll find exceptions
but that's what they are
exceptions
severe helm
Shadenox — Today at 4:49 PM
so they end up playing what's best
potent pivot
Been in acherus arguing over rice in the pvp channel
severe helm
im just confused
do people play whats best or do they not
and if they do play whats best then why are worse specs still popular
I just dont see how to remedy the contradiction
chrome schooner
people at very high rating play what's best
severe helm
or are the people who are higher rated the ones who main whats best in that current season
chrome schooner
overall, it's a bit whatever, because as soon as you leave title range there are no rewards to get
so you can play whatever you want
severe helm
I think youre putting the cart before the horse here
severe helm
theres too many factors to make such a black and white claim
chrome schooner
not really no
severe helm
theres a lot that goes into this stuff and theres a lot of players who dont want to swap
chrome schooner
don't you think, at high rating, and in tournaments, and even on lower and mid tier rating
severe helm
vanguards is gona play ret, saul is gona play shaman, smexxin is gona play war or lock
people develop expertise on specs
and wills tay on those specs
chrome schooner
warrior shaman has been way more played, way more popular, than feral shaman
it has
severe helm
its just how it works
chrome schooner
yet this season
severe helm
people dont fotm as hard as you say
severe helm
if you look at top 100 you just end up naturally selecting for the specs that got a minor cr boost from their spec/comp being strong in that r1 bracket
chrome schooner
either you are actually really good AND are friends with people who aren't super lame
so you play with them, get title
severe helm
but its too small of a sample size
chrome schooner
or, you play feral to play with your ele guy
and the 3rd option is that you opt out
because the shaman guy plays a spec that is overperforming
and he wants the title
severe helm
yeah I think the number of people who you think do the latter of those two options is higher than I think it is
chrome schooner
and he will have it safely with a feral
severe helm
but tbh theres not a good way to prove it
chrome schooner
that's how it works
chrome schooner
well you see within title range, and even slightly beyond since those ppl comepted as well, spec representation
just look at healers x)
it's the best illustration
60 paladins on your screenshot, 1 hpriest ?
13 druids ?
severe helm
I do think healer is a role that can be more easily fotmed
chrome schooner
yes
severe helm
just cuz mechanically healers are easier than dps
chrome schooner
it just shows how people are
severe helm
but its not that easy to for example go from DK to arcane mage
like thats not a trivial transition
grave basin
Look at m+ tank rep
severe helm
significantly yeah imo
chrome schooner
dps players don't hvae a higher moral ground than healer players
grave basin
People absolutely fotm reroll
chrome schooner
people fotm reroll in every single kind of content
the ones who don't are the exception
severe helm
I know people fotm reroll but I dont think the value of the reroll that often outweighs the loss of expertise
grave basin
People who main "tank" have every tank at max level waiting to go
severe helm
cuz you have to consider if youre fotm rerolling, youre gona lose against the person whos MAIN is good that season
grave basin
Same with healers
chrome schooner
cuz you have to consider if youre fotm rerolling, youre gona lose against the pe...
Yes
But that's exactly the thing
severe helm
unless youre like a super super long term player who has been playing many specs for a long time
ALSO you dont necessarily know at the start of the season what the meta will end up being
chrome schooner
DH was rlly bad this season for instance
severe helm
things change a lot by the end
chrome schooner
If you're a really good DH player
severe helm
so people tend to pick safer things
chrome schooner
and have some okay experience as melee
severe helm
or stay with their main comps
cuz learning a comp is also a factor
beyond learning a spec
chrome schooner
if you just played outlaw for 4 months with your dedicated team
you'd get an easier title than as dh
grave basin
Is it fotming if I always play sv but BM was busted last season so I play it for 400 free cr
chrome schooner
because sometimes, expertise is all well and good, but blizzard made classes simple enough to grasp quickly
and the level of power between specs is way, wayy to big
also, it's not like you lose all your skills when you hop spec
severe helm
yeah I think your main spec would have to be reaaaaally bad for expertise to not outweigh fotm
or the fotm spec would have to be REALLY good
and easy
chrome schooner
you still know where to look, what to look for, how to kick, how to position, how to trade cds, when to answer cds with cds of your own etc
chrome schooner
it's really, really not as difficult as you seem to believe
severe helm
but even ele I dont thnk was as op last season as ret was in s2 df
grave basin
Brother you don't have to look so far
You think people main BM hunter ?
Look at the shuffle ladder
severe helm
it's really, really not as difficult as you seem to believe
I think if it was as easy as you say wed see a lot less diversity in the top 200
but we do see diversity
chrome schooner
count how many specs there are
severe helm
okay
chrome schooner
just count
dps specs
in the game
it's
26 ?
how many comps can you make with that, ASSUMING you only ever take the bis healer
a lot
severe helm
this is 100 players out of ALLLL of NA
chrome schooner
Feral alone
severe helm
if what you were saying was true
wed see so little diversity
you could get r1 on almost any spec last season
severe helm
as is shown
severe helm
and if you expand just slightly to 500
severe helm
mes getting r1 on blood lol
chrome schooner
on this top 500
ferals are basically the same amount as the last 7 melees
combined
it's clearly not "diversity"
severe helm
again I know some people fotm reroll, but also some feral mains are pushed into range who otherwise wouldnt be
but to say most people fotm reroll
is just wrong
the evidence is here
chrome schooner
again I know some people fotm reroll, but also some feral mains are pushed into ...
yes
and why ?
because the casterswho would normally not play with them did
severe helm
I mean at this point were staring at the numbers and apparently both reading different things
chrome schooner
putting people playing a weaker spec in the situation I described
severe helm
so theres not much discussion to be had
sharp sierra
I just have it hidden unless on CD
how many addons did it take for that UI? More than 12?
sharp sierra
Same as last season
when you say that, not sure cuz I havent played rogue in years til now
potent pivot
how many addons did it take for that UI? More than 12?
iirc Zanak's is mostly made up of WAs
chrome schooner
when you say that, not sure cuz I havent played rogue in years til now
it's basically dot everything and do a lot of damage but die easily
gleaming pawn
when you say that, not sure cuz I havent played rogue in years til now
Sin will be good, but not OP
chrome schooner
veeeeeeeeeeery summarized
dapper chasm
how many addons did it take for that UI? More than 12?
Nearly all weakaura actually
What you're seeing on screen there is about 5 addons
sharp sierra
so do I have to know coding on how to do it?
sharp sierra
it's basically dot everything and do a lot of damage but die easily
hmm well assass has always been my go to rogue spec, so hopefully its good
id try outlaw
gleaming pawn
Doing it all in WA is excessive and very Zanaken
Just get some addons to replace the basic UI stuff and it will do the same without all the effort
dapper chasm
Doing it all in WA is excessive and very Zanaken
You should see my lovemaking
gleaming pawn
I would be greatly disappointed if you were a dead fish, so that checks out
dapper chasm
Ya'll realise I am happy to share any of those weakauras though right?
No need to do it yourselves, I ENJOY it
chrome schooner
To be fair when Blizzard for released their arenaframes on their UI
I thought they understood what their base UI lacked and would implement it then restrict addons a bit
Naive hope from me
severe helm
I feel like if blizz wanted to they could standardize an arena ui similar to what they use for broadcasting awc
chrome schooner
Now we still have the same UI as before but with frames we can't remove and have to hide in a corner hehe
severe helm
I would be fine with "no addons" if it meant an upgraded base ui for arena
gleaming pawn
I feel like if blizz wanted to they could standardize an arena ui similar to wha...
They could, just no RoI in doing so
severe helm
but no addons with our CURRENT base ui would be HORRIBLE
chrome schooner
I would be fine with "no addons" if it meant an upgraded base ui for arena
Yeah exactly
severe helm
it would way overly favor certain specs/comps
cuz I can play shadowplay without a ui
idgaf
chrome schooner
Even something taking the frames they implemented with DR display and maybe stuff like interrupts, that for both your and the enemy team
severe helm
but playing rogue without dr tracking sounds awful
chrome schooner
And it would be nice
dapper chasm
My UI uses blizzard assets for bars and stuff, it's just... less of a clusterfuck
keen canopy
the world if blizzard removed every combat addon from WoW
chrome schooner
but playing rogue without dr tracking sounds awful
Back in the DAY
We had the in game stopwatch macro'ed to Kidney Shot
severe helm
yeah horrible
chrome schooner
Gaming moments
gleaming pawn
What does the AWC UI look like?
Very streamlined, and has important CDs visible
potent pivot
Now we still have the same UI as before but with frames we can't remove and have...
i think you can hide them... with more addons 
dapper chasm
Very streamlined, and has important CDs visible
You saying it's better than mine?
gleaming pawn
Nah, same vein but yours has more shadows for depth
gleaming pawn
Here’s some old screen from Google of the AWC UI for viewers
keen canopy
Multi time second place champ Pikaboo
keen canopy
no pikaboo is the rogue
dapper chasm
mb, tiny letters
gleaming pawn
The guy in your screenshot is Absterge, the Healer for that team
gleaming pawn
All dead or retired
gleaming pawn
Get a team together so you can be in s2 AWC
dapper chasm
Is a single member of the six silent shadows still around?
dapper chasm
All dead or retired
Holy balls, Reckful actually fucking DIED?
I thought you were joking
gleaming pawn
Sadly no
dapper chasm
Like, others or just him?
gleaming pawn
Just him that I know of
dapper chasm
So young, fuck me
gleaming pawn
Yeah was a sad day when that news came through
Facing him back in the day was a nightmare
dapper chasm
Never played him, he was across the pond
But everyone knew his name
Neilyo stopped playing too, man
Google making me feel old as fuck
mystic pasture
Just Google? Lucky you
dapper chasm
The trick is yoga, got the spine of a 20 year old
gleaming pawn
I was on BG 9 in my hay day, so I had to deal with all the greats like Reckful and Ming
mystic pasture
The trick is yoga, got the spine of a 20 year old
All i see is that mortal combat finisher.
dapper chasm
No, I keep that spine in the attic
mystic pasture
Yoink! Now doc, can you swap this one out for me?
hybrid palm
The trick is yoga, got the spine of a 20 year old
Yoga is an Indian fraud :D, I live in Bombay
dapper chasm
I'll be honest, I say yoga - it's just stretching to a youtube video of a physiotherapist with an oddly sexual voice
But I do it with my wife and she wears her yoga shorts so
It's yoga
sharp sierra
I thought they understood what their base UI lacked and would implement it then ...
its a bit better now. Has enemy raid frames w/ cast bars
sharp sierra
who would be 3rd best race for a frost mage? I know NE but after that
potent pivot
sharp sierra
so 2nd?
stoic spruce
nelf rogue and druid sure
but what does mage benefit from meld
because the examples im always given are few and far between
like dodge CCs with a travel time
potent pivot
dodging casts
stoic spruce
dodging 1 cast every 3 minutes just doesnt seem worth
esp when other races have a CC break
potent pivot
dodging 1 cast every 3 minutes just doesnt seem worth
2
stoic spruce
oh well then in that case nvm
potent pivot
idk almost every class plays n elf that can
mystic pasture
I cant play NE. It kills me that its the only option for alliance DH
I suffer for it, and have to learn to play with a handicap
So many people play NE, that I think rogues must be balanced around smeld in PVP
stoic spruce
thats just simply not true
Then again, we have no idea what they tune based on
but theyre no strangers to nerfing racials in pvp enviroments
stoic spruce
So many people play NE, that I think rogues must be balanced around smeld in PVP
it also doesnt help that every spec has such a loaded subterfuge
mystic pasture
it also doesnt help that every spec has such a loaded subterfuge
Exactly
stoic spruce
I wish I could show you the build I was running earlier
sharp sierra
idk almost every class plays n elf that can
i fuckin hate it
im void elf mage and dranei hpal
potent pivot
Just play what you want 
mystic pasture
I am a light forged draenei rogue!!!!!
The best looking race with the WORST racial
Vanity is the cross i bear
mystic pasture
I wish I could show you the build I was running earlier
I am not sure why you can’t….?
sharp sierra
The best looking race with the WORST racial
hows reg draenei pally?
sharp sierra
I am a light forged draenei rogue!!!!!
im NE rogue
waxen meteor
is blood coin gonna reset?
potent pivot
bloody tokens? ye
potent pivot
depends
some do, some don't
it can be really helpful into dragons for clearing shroud for example
sharp sierra
yeah i went NE on my rogue just came back to the game
draeniei hpal, NE rogue and VE frost mage
does void elf make sense for frost mages tho
stoic spruce
I am not sure why you can’t….?
Was playing classic and am now not home
mystic pasture
im NE rogue
Everyone is 🤣
hollow shell
what spec are peopel played before the s2 drops?
severe helm
@potent pivot those PS crits
sheeeesh
as big as my largest bte crit
kinda unreal
potent pivot
does anyone know
if i buy a conquest weapon on 1 class
will it unlock the mog if it's the wrong weapon type for the class
severe helm
I dont think so
potent pivot
after the warband mog changes
potent pivot
i bought a warglaive on my druid
and i got the chat message for unlocking the mog
but it doesn't show on my DH
but
the item has the 2 hour timer
for reselling it to the vendor
since my druid can't equip it lol
i'm hoping when the timer is over it'll be unlocked for the dh, we'll see
i only ever bought bloody token weps on it 
exotic dove
So apparently for BM and Survival their Masters Call freedom is not working correctly. I tried it on my Hunter and got frustrated lol but it explains how I was able to stay on BM and Surv hunters much easier this patch so far on my Rogue.
When they dont have disengage that is
potent pivot
So apparently for BM and Survival their Masters Call freedom is not working corr...
You have to make a target self/targetlasttarget macro for freedom
exotic dove
You have to make a target self/targetlasttarget macro for freedom
oh so it is working as intended then or is it a work around until they fix it
potent pivot
oh so it is working as intended then or is it a work around until they fix it
Work around
exotic dove
So something like /cast [@player] Master's Call
potent pivot
So something like /cast [@player] Master's Call
more like
/cast Master's Call
/targetlasttarget```idk exactly
whatever target self is
exotic dove
The Hunter is just an alt ill figure it out later I couldn't get the macro to work
Thanks for assisting though
indigo hill
Can check bicmex on YouTube. He always had a link to his macros in the description.
potent pivot
i saw the macro because of bicmex, not sure if it'd be in his pastebin though
since it's only being used thanks to a new bug atm
prime ocean
#showtooltip command pet
/target player
/cast [@mouseover,exists,noharm][@player] master's call; master's call
/cast Command Pet
/targetlasttarget
untold remnant
What builds are Outlaws playing right now?
The Fatebound HO build does negative damage right now :p
harsh kiln
Fatebound HO gang<--
dapper chasm
People here kept talking about WoW streamers so I gave it a go. Found the biggest channel and was greeted with a 10 minute monologue about how based US politics is
I'm going back to playing and not watching a damn thing
native glacier
People here kept talking about WoW streamers so I gave it a go. Found the bigges...
Asmongold isn’t a wow streamer
dapper chasm
Could have fooled me
indigo hill
He used to be. Now he just react to random crap.
verbal field
I've never really followed Asmongold, but it seems that many players don't have a good opinion of him, can someone xplain why?
indigo hill
Being on argent dawn the reason we don't like him is because he always overloaded the servers with his followers and caused it to lag and/or crash during peak rp hours for one of his competitions.
Other than that I don't know why others don't like him.
old dome
Stupid question but have brainfog atm. Rupture, garrote and envenom are our 3 main dots to keep up as assa right?
keen dune
At this point I've tried all rogue specs a fair amount, and sub is by far my favourite, do you reckon it's worth it to main that, or should I keep trying outlaw/assa.
safe pelican
Rogue feels awful without meld in pvp haha
They took away meld ??
Thinking about resubbing need to catch up on the patch notes
indigo hill
At this point I've tried all rogue specs a fair amount, and sub is by far my fav...
Just main what feels best.
indigo hill
They took away meld ??
No, mewo meant that playing rogue that isn't a nelf feels awful cause you won't have meld.
dark kernel
polar burrow
does an "envenom build" take the poison bomb talent?
stoic spruce
Nixxiom is the best wow streamer
deft spear
Is outlaw still considered more tanky/survivable than the other specs? if so, why?
gleaming sentinel
Can lower cd of evasion, more uptime on feint
deft spear
ok. thought so
spring bough
What times server up
Bout to take off the afternoon get the full elite mog by the end of the night
deft spear
...soooo don't check every 5 min?
dapper chasm
Stormscale is like 95% horde last I checked, but I literally ONLY see Ally in the new city
What the hell is going on?
I know they have the new shard system to balance things out, but this still doesn't make sense
Oh, I do love some world PvP - so I'm not complaining, just genuinely confused
agile kite
Bout to take off the afternoon get the full elite mog by the end of the night
Blitz or shuffle
I heard blitz was the easiest free rating last time
spring bough
Blitz or shuffle
Shuffle is the fastest to rival. Then both after
Atleast that’s how I did it start of season one
agile kite
Based - I’m curious what mmr is at start
spring bough
Idek. I ripped 5-1s and 6-0s at the start of last season and the just propels the shuffle rating like crazy
Way more than blitz. Blitz can get 192 first win big whoop. Shuffle can get like 500+ lol
spring bough
Rogues feeling really strong and tanky rn
At least outlaw is. Should be a fun day of demolishing people
hidden moth
I've never really followed Asmongold, but it seems that many players don't have ...
I like him but I’m a spurg and recently agree with some of his options on other topics outside of game
Is season live yet?
outer sky
Skillcapped says assa is going to be S tier this season
gusty hedge
At least outlaw is. Should be a fun day of demolishing people
i still feel squishy even with a vers flask on lol
jaunty osprey
indigo hill
Think frost dk is S+++ at the moment.
deft spear
outlaw sounds so fun.....but i didnt test it last week....and now i cant decide lol
potent pivot
Stupid question but have brainfog atm. Rupture, garrote and envenom are our 3 ma...
Envenom isn’t a dot
potent pivot
does an "envenom build" take the poison bomb talent?
No
spring bough
servers back up? says i have a 10 min que to login LOL
guess season 2 got some hype lmao
"position in que: 14, estimated time: 10 min" TF is this
gusty hedge
been in que for the last hour 😛 timer been stuck on 13 min for the last 30 min lol
spring bough
been in que for the last hour 😛 timer been stuck on 13 min for the last 30 min ...
cool we gonna be the first ones in
RIVAL INC
new set INC
deft spear
lol
indigo hill
Has anything changed for Outlaw talent build ?
spring bough
transmog gonna looking so fking good this season
spring bough
been in que for the last hour 😛 timer been stuck on 13 min for the last 30 min ...
position, 9 time, 6 min we MOVING
deft spear
i havent even looked at the tmogs.....are they miner themed?
gusty hedge
position, 9 time, 6 min we MOVING
11 min 
position N/a
potent pivot
Has anything changed for Outlaw talent build ?
Nop
spring bough
Nop
yes. sleight of hand over loaded dice now
sleight of hands 20% now and it gives us so many 4-5 rolls
spring bough
and? we gonna have it in 2 weeks lmao
trickster for pve is also on par with fate ST now and way beyond on AOE
potent pivot
Like idk these things or something?
spring bough
been doing trickster KIR since tuesday and its feeling hella nice
deft spear
bruhhhhh the tmogs make me want to go outlaw!!!
monk looks badass
Sin running kingsbane? I think wowhead has it and icy doesnt
potent pivot
Sin running kingsbane? I think wowhead has it and icy doesnt
You can if you want to, those sites aren’t the best usually for pvp
deft spear
You can if you want to, those sites aren’t the best usually for pvp
yeah. i just dont know where to steal from at the beginning of the season lol
spring bough
holy shit login issues fixed and im starin at the realm selection... any minute now boys
potent pivot
yeah. i just dont know where to steal from at the beginning of the season lol
I can send you a couple builds in a bit
Most people just run the standard bleed build
deft spear
id love something basic, i do mostly bgs...and a rotation/opener if it has it with it
severe helm
yes. sleight of hand over loaded dice now
yeah tbh though HO might drop SC
potent pivot
Especially for BGs
severe helm
with sleight + tier
cuz youre gona not want to press rtb for a long time
whenever you 5 roll
spring bough
idt im ever playing HO again
KIR feeling too good even without the new tier
and trickster or fate works well with it
spring bough
hitting that extension to 1 min on 5 buffs
so OP
and with sleight i got so many the last few days
even without tierrr lol
severe helm
well now youre gona natty 5 buff so often as HO that it might actually benefit ho more
sleight didnt improve 5 roll
oh in the last few days
spring bough
its noticeable
severe helm
how it works is the 20% gets split between 2 roll and 5 roll in a 3/4 to 1/4 ratio
spring bough
loving outlaw rn even losing sinister pvp talent, still pumping
spring bough
hella nice
bout to elite mog set and fist wep mog for the whole season. these shark cannon ball fist weps so dope lol
potent pivot
Ye sleight does not work how it reads
severe helm
yeah thye did a horrible job with that one lol
potent pivot
Yep 
severe helm
a dev literally had to clarify it
in the discord
I mean cmon
put that shit in the patch notes
I hope they added that clarification in
they might have to the blue post
but its def not in the tooltip which sucks
deft spear
MA=master assassin?
potent pivot
Ye
spring bough
im just excited trickster is finally on par with buffs
unseen blades were doing like 600-700k plus for me lol
potent pivot
it's the same as season 1 start
spring bough
usually a good crit/verse piece they go after
potent pivot
nah
spring bough
i think the pvp neck was like top 5 pve necks last season too
severe helm
nah
potent pivot
its only a week 1/2 min max
potent pivot
for the pvp sockets on decent ilvl crafted
severe helm
are you gona do weapons with your heraldries?
potent pivot
some people in the sub channel were asking me
severe helm
seems like a waste if youre actually a pvper though
potent pivot
how to do it earlier
severe helm
cuz you get the free conq weps anyway
spring bough
damn i didnt consolidate all my honor on my main before today and the warband transfer is disabled LMAO
spring bough
can i buy items on alts and mail them to my main lol
potent pivot
damn i didnt consolidate all my honor on my main before today and the warband tr...
its been disabled for like a week now almost
don't think so
spring bough
is pvp considered warband transferable gear lol
severe helm
no
severe helm
pvp gear is soulbound
spring bough
damn hella RIPs
potent pivot
it isn't up until FUCKING APRIL
spring bough
wont be shuffling till way later now FK
spring bough
warband transfer is down according to launcherr
potent pivot
no
severe helm
or the bot bg
potent pivot
the AI bot BG
severe helm
rip
potent pivot
isn't up til april
severe helm
need dat shit
spring bough
they should make it a point for it to be active first week of the season
potent pivot
i kinda wish the weapon achievement was for 1600 conq
waiting til week 3 makes so many people impatient
spring bough
is it still 2500 so 3 weeks?
potent pivot
as far as i know it'll be the same
spring bough
yeah im def not using my conquest craftable items on a wep this time
potent pivot
they didn't announce any change
spring bough
using it on neck, and rings
spring bough
im short like 7k lol
potent pivot
and subtract bloody token items u use
potent pivot
i'm probably going to craft every honor piece this time
instead of just the ones i put embellishments on
finding recrafts has been so easy
gleaming sentinel
Just better stat allocation I assume?
spring bough
average i paid as a tip was like 1k all of season 1
potent pivot
Just better stat allocation I assume?
yeah
severe helm
i'm probably going to craft every honor piece this time
whats the reason for this?
potent pivot
stats and embellishments
gleaming sentinel
Sub wants giga mastery
severe helm
im just too cheap lol
potent pivot
when u recraft
spring bough
yeah
potent pivot
so you can enchant the honor pieces without wasting gold
gleaming sentinel
im just too cheap lol
Think we’ll want above 30% vers?
spring bough
ez to get
potent pivot
if you're going to play trickster i think you want more crit
instead of full stacking vers
spring bough
30% verse? Idt i went over 25% verse all season 1
deft spear
first real pvp season for me....so I know im going to screw up gearing somehow
potent pivot
most people went over 30% vers s1
spring bough
gonna have a minimum 10% haste then verse / crit for the rest, for my stats
potent pivot
first real pvp season for me....so I know im going to screw up gearing somehow
i made a guide
gleaming sentinel
I’m super tempted to try for 20% haste and do kir trickster
deft spear
last time i REALLY played wow, we had a reforger.....
spring bough
I’m super tempted to try for 20% haste and do kir trickster
i think im around 15% haste in pvp and trickster KIR still good
gleaming sentinel
i think im around 15% haste in pvp and trickster KIR still good
Nice I haven’t tried it in PvP, but in pve when I forget to use a flask it feels way worse at 15%
spring bough
i def got more haste gear when i went from HO to trick
dont forget to buy Viscious Flasks of Honor today
gleaming sentinel
At least honor gear I can fart around with for a bit
outer sky
all 3 warlock specs in S tier lol
deft spear
hmmm
deft spear
surprised to see demo there
spring bough
cool so the tyrant gonna solo my ass this season again? RIP
severe helm
i think im around 15% haste in pvp and trickster KIR still good
18% will help a lot
15% is below the breakpoint for the extra gcd in crackshot
so youll get a big bump as you get closer to the cap
exotic dove
I think this is the first time in a long time or ever that I have seen both MM and BM in S tier at the same time.
spring bough
BM looking so good ngl
bout to get my bm hunter all pack leadered up and smoke people in shuffles
deft spear
i dunno, tier lists seem to be all over the place
i dont like them BM, but maybe cause there has been a ton of them recently
severe helm
I think this is the first time in a long time or ever that I have seen both MM a...
mm is NUTSO
I think thug and jungle are gona be insane
like super insane
MM has disgusting burst
exotic dove
Oh yeah I did some MM on my Hunter and it was a lot of fun.
severe helm
I leveled my hunt this patch yeah haha
now that I dont have to micro manage my pet
I can have more fun
deft spear
did they release a surprise nerf list?
spring bough
are we gonna get 2 shot rapid fire back to back banged again this season
exotic dove
Fun Fact Master's call actually works without a macro for me on MM too
spring bough
cause that was some horseshit when it was happening. MM would delete u from 45 yards ez
exotic dove
are we gonna get 2 shot rapid fire back to back banged again this season
So when I play my Rogue I havent really been two banged in a blitz by one yet so going to say no but then again new honor gear higher ILs so who knows
potent pivot
did they release a surprise nerf list?
a few days ago there was a tuning post
spring bough
i think the 2 back to back rapids was season 3 or 4 of DF. if they have that strength again GG
deft spear
a few days ago there was a tuning post
when you get a sec can you shoot me that sin build info? unless you did and i missed it
spring bough
can we have one season where we post "rogue is OP"
potent pivot
when you get a sec can you shoot me that sin build info? unless you did and i m...
yeah was waiting to get into the game 
exotic dove
I want to say this though My Rogue feels strong not like MM strong but I feel really good on my Rogue with Assa and Sub as of right now
spring bough
game should be up within 20.... launcher hasnt updated. still says its over at 11am
potent pivot
when you get a sec can you shoot me that sin build info? unless you did and i m...
this is the basic build
you can swap doomblade/sbs for ma+kb
potent pivot
yeah i'd say nelf first
spring bough
but haymaker FCs off maps
exotic dove
Its hard for me to play a Rogue that is not a night elf ngl
spring bough
is too fun
potent pivot
KT for blitz later on
spring bough
kul tiran beefy mf looks so funny lol
exotic dove
I mean I can play a different race Rogue but it feels awkward without meld I have a void elf one running around
I like that port in blitz
spring bough
yup fuck MM already
already hate them
1 this time??? last time it took 2 rapid fires. telling me they hit it once and we dead now?? LMAO
potent pivot
like it doesn't even matter
trueshot rapid fire and you're dead
unless you immunity
spring bough
oh and rapid fire hits 2 or 3 targets with talents too right?
fuckin OP as hell
bro sent like all his heals too
and it didnt even move that mages health up 1 tick lol
spring bough
