ngl im confused on what is happening on his scren
#pvp
hidden moth
potent pivot
potent pivot
Nah sometimes trufigcd just does weird shit like that
hidden moth
nvm
potent pivot
It was probably because of Replicating Shadows
hidden moth
its bc he was using it while being glared
potent pivot
Or that
hidden moth
is a macro for blades being use blades symbol and dance a good idea?
keep the others on seperate binds etc
gleaming pawn
doesn't TrufiCD list the spell icon the number of CP used to cast it?
ie he sent a 3 CP Rupture
potent pivot
i don't think so no
sometimes it will duplicate the icon for cleaving spells like replicating shadows rupture
or garrote/rupture indisciminate carnage
but it also just does weird shit sometimes
hidden moth
also assume i use flag into cheap shadow strike tech cheap evis cheap evis?
potent pivot
also assume i use flag into cheap shadow strike tech cheap evis cheap evis?
there is a short on nahj's YT
that legit goes over openers
gleaming pawn
Palumor also usually has basic burst rotation videos
potent pivot
you just replace the sepsis with a shadowstrike or something
gleaming pawn
they are generally all about all-ining your target, but he does the break down well
I can't decide which healing priest spec I want to do Blitz with this season. Disc is always fun and generally good but can struggle with the spread out lots of target pressure
but Holy has to hard cast just so much
hidden moth
you just replace the sepsis with a shadowstrike or something
whats sepsis
potent pivot
lol
hidden moth
yeah nvm im just gonna stick with ass
hidden moth
yeah
im just not liking how many buttons i need to push iun a opener
the equivalent of deathmark into shiv kb over 3 gcd is like
severe helm
yeah nvm im just gonna stick with ass
You just have to memorize the one burst rotation
You do almost the exact same thing every time
hidden moth
yeah trinket tea dance blades all at once but i dont have the binds to be able to hit 4 abilitys at the same time between globals
hidden moth
but in the opener vid nahj didnt send all at once
he did like 1-2 then a gcd then the other 3
gleaming pawn
that's because at the level he is playing, it's not wise to send all at once in a macro
but starting fresh, and for a lot of levels of play just putting your burst into a macro isn't going to lose you the match
it might once and a while, but meh
hidden moth
fair
hard garnet
potent pivot
whatever your heart desires
i’m probably gonna play whatever is broken
(mm hunter)
grave basin
dark kernel
Anyone good with TEEA DR tracker
I cannot get the anchor point for it to re-orient to the otherside of nameplate
gleaming pawn
nope I don't use it, but I will agree with Zanaken before he can weigh in that I hate your UI 🙂
severe helm
ngl use diminish imo
p easy to configure
but im sure teaa can do it im just not experienced in it
gleaming pawn
ngl use diminish imo
are you using this Diminish? It hasn't been updated since 10/31/24 but it's the only one even remotely recently updated
ionic orbit
Where do you start this quest so you can buy the conquest points weapons?
severe helm
Where do you start this quest so you can buy the conquest points weapons?
you dont have ot pick up the quest
itll just auto complete for you
once you get 2500
ionic orbit
they should put that next to the item instead of do the quest
severe helm
are you using this Diminish? It hasn't been updated since 10/31/24 but it's the ...
yeah thats the one I use
stoic spruce
yeah thats the one I use
What was r1 cutoff for outlaw in shuffle last season?
You remember?
severe helm
What was r1 cutoff for outlaw in shuffle last season?
3010 I think
dark kernel
are you using this Diminish? It hasn't been updated since 10/31/24 but it's the ...
i had it but it has issues too
graceful ravine
did they fix the deathstalker combat bug?
graceful ravine
im surprised sub rogues playing the supercharged cp talents now
it doesnt do anything when we have shadowblades up during our burst right?
dapper chasm
Anyone good with TEEA DR tracker
Are those the base unit frames?! Anyway, it's under group settings under Target. Each group has a subsection, but you don't want that. Click the target group and check the first tab
Then just select that you want it to grow right wards, and then you can also change the "anchor point" to be the left side (of the DR trackers) and attached to the right side (of the unit frames)
graceful ravine
is there a reason to do the campaign as a pvper
dapper chasm
is there a reason to do the campaign as a pvper
Not at all, but you get to kill a whole bunch of players in the new zone!
vocal surge
it doesnt do anything when we have shadowblades up during our burst right?
Supercharged Combo Points work differently now compared to Shadowlands
in Shadowlands, you had to reach the exact combo point the Supercharge Combo Point was on to get the 7 Combo Point spent effect
graceful ravine
ahhh i see
vocal surge
in the current iteration, we spend our combo points at the max value to get +2 (+3 w. Forced Induction) to our spender
so 6 combo points --> 8 or 9 w. Forced Induction
sharp sierra
Is there a talent or passive that gives back full combo points after using a finisher especialy Secret Tech I cant find it anywhere in the tree?
teal bough
After the recent post what you guys think is best tuned sub ou ass?
dark kernel
ass by far
sharp sierra
How do I track that and predict wheb its gonna give me a full combo point restore after I use a finisher is it random or?
@glass hazel
glass hazel
everytime shadow technique procs it stores 1cp, it is purple color i think in blizz ui
or in any rogue wa 🙂 it shows as extra cp
dapper chasm
How do I track that and predict wheb its gonna give me a full combo point restor...
By using my badass weak aura
Here you go
It's basically a number in the upper middle that builds up
I originally had it glow when it hit 7+, but it was a bit gaudy
twilit swan
So I decided to learn sub rogue as a beginner (find it the most fun after trying out all 3) is there anything I absolutely need to track ?
spring bough
night elf or kul tiran for season 2
looks like trickster finally got buffed too? up there with ST fate?? and better at aoe still GG
holy fuck elite set is so hot tooooo
prime ocean
im currently perma energy starved on outlaw is that normally?
severe helm
im currently perma energy starved on outlaw is that normally?
Outlaw only should feel energy starved when you have adr down
And usually adr uptime is a function of how well you're playing
prime ocean
is it important i use dagger as offhand?
brave plume
how do hunters use hunters mark on you while you are stealthed and they are in camo and 30yd away?
in wpvp
halcyon timber
did they upgrade wow graphics?? shit looks diff too lol
Just higher resolution on textures and different mapping uv unwraps they have been doing . Lots of combined noding into things. They are definitely busy in the teams they are doing a great job
spring bough
very noticeable
feels like a diff game lol
also outlaw aoe feels so stupid and ST dmg too
stoic spruce
did they upgrade wow graphics?? shit looks diff too lol
Every expac ya
Remember the jump from SL to DF performance wise?
halcyon timber
Yeah all 3 specializations look solid.
spring bough
getting to undermine is fun
i like this so far
and it feels like in world pvp horde > alliance now?? i dont understand lol
halcyon timber
Prob just shards
boreal briar
On Sargeras, ally own most of the time, so Im assuming its all region dependant
spring bough
does honor reset tuesday too?
runic laurel
Have you looked at the rewards?
spring bough
no idea they were diff lool
runic laurel
Yeah it’s basically just cosmetic stuff so look at the rewards and you can decide which one has a mount or toy you’d prefer
But also you pick again every week I’m assuming so if you want to change your mind you’re only 1 week of rep grinding behind
ember elbow
is there any video or something up to date explaining sub openers
lusty meteor
No reason to return until next week for honor gear right?
karmic tinsel
what are sin pvp talents?
spring bough
unlocked undermine portal to dornogal. guess thats it for the week? lol
potent pivot
besides renown and pve items yeah
maybe farm honor cap or somethin
last week to turn bloody token gear into LFR recolor using the catalyst if you want any free sets
spring bough
honor doesnt reset? def gonna farm it
potent pivot
ye it only ever resets on new expansion
spring bough
undermine music gonna get on my nerves so fast lol
gleaming pawn
I'm not going to complain, but it's kind of wild that the Bloodstones are not season specific
spring bough
i get so many 5 rolls now its so nice
jolly sierra
undermine music gonna get on my nerves so fast lol
i have the OST disabled since BFA
music went downhill after legion imo
spring bough
i have the OST disabled since BFA
this is carnival type music lol
potent pivot
a lot of ppl have been hyping the undermine music
gleaming pawn
undermine music gonna get on my nerves so fast lol
that's ok, everyone is entitled to have bad takes every once in a while 🙂
jolly sierra
OOF
severe helm
Yeah it's pretty good
Some people will hear Coltrane and say "wow this sounds like elevator music"
To each their own
stiff cedar
how are we expecting outlaw to look next week?
dapper chasm
Well, I wont name names, but it was posted here that it's basically just the weaker sibling to sub - easier to play and frankly more of an entry spec to the real deal
Some posts even stated that it's "lame" and "should go back to being called combat and stop pretending to be cool"
severe helm
A little fried to say outlaw is easier than sub
Has a significantly harder rotation and requires way more uptime to get value while having similar strictness for cross cc on goes in order to force CDs
dapper chasm
That reminds me, I heard something like "People who roll rogue to play outlaw are like the people who go to an Asian resturaunt just to order the fried chicken and chips from the bottom of the menu"
severe helm
It's harder than sub in pretty much every way imo
In what way do people consider sub harder?
dapper chasm
Mechanically
severe helm
Lololololol
dapper chasm
And the men who choose it
severe helm
Aite that's hilarious
Outlaw presses more buttons pre opener than sub even has in its rotation
dapper chasm
I'm just saying what I hear, the zeitgeist of the community - don't attack the messenger
severe helm
I think the only grounds for argument is how everyone knows what subs burst looks like so people are good at trading into that
stiff cedar
i just wanted info on its current tuning as i haven't tested, but this is far better 🍿
dapper chasm
He's clearly biased
dapper chasm
All say sub
severe helm
I mean I say sub
But others have said trickster outlaw
So no I'm not biased here haha
But good guess
dapper chasm
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
potent pivot
Outlaw presses more buttons pre opener than sub even has in its rotation
i think outlaw is only more difficult from an apm perspective
sub is more difficult on a macro level
dapper chasm
And we all know how weird Starcraft boys are
severe helm
Yeah those difficulties exist for outlaw
If you ignore them you lose in the same way it's just less obvious as for sub
Outlaw is literally just sub that requires way more uptime to keep pressure
dapper chasm
You're saying a lot of subjective things - let's look at objective FACTS here
Sub is the sexier spec
Yeah, nothing to say because you know it to be true
potent pivot
potent pivot
THAT is not true
severe helm
Hahahahahaha
severe helm
They all pretend it's the hardest specs to ever exist yet most of them have only been high rated when rmp is SSSS+++ tier
The most one dimensional players
dapper chasm
You have to choose between two random people to spend an evening hanging out
- One is a comb- OUTLAW spec player and his mum let him place an order on his first nippon steel replica sword
- Two is a Subtlety player who will bring two girls and has tickets to that show you like
stoic spruce
Who let you back in the house?
potent pivot
idk man outlaw is a warrior with more cc
dapper chasm
They all pretend it's the hardest specs to ever exist yet most of them have only...
I hit my peak in WotLK/Cata - I was there, BOY
I was there when the laws were WRITTEN
stiff cedar
i think that's a weird flex but tbd
potent pivot
if you don't know how to pre plan for your burst as sub you're gonna suck
severe helm
I hit my peak in WotLK/Cata - I was there, BOY
Point and case 😉
severe helm
if you don't know how to pre plan for your burst as sub you're gonna suck
Same as every setup spec
Outlaw included
dapper chasm
if you don't know how to pre plan for your burst as sub you're gonna suck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJUxiUxDyWk Average sub player planning
potent pivot
imo the only spec in the game that is close to as difficult as sub in pvp is feral
severe helm
Most comps do cross cc and set up to force CDs
If anything sub has it easier
Cuz they require no rotational setup
At all
0
Count down from 3
That's it
They've skipped past half the difficulty of wow
potent pivot
thats only when rmp is meta
severe helm
Which is keeping pressure in between goes
potent pivot
severe helm
thats only when rmp is meta
Cuz that's all the sub players can comprehend
dapper chasm
Notice how the sub Chad stated his peace and sits back while the Outlaw child is posting over and over in single lines
potent pivot
i would like to see you push on sub mewo
severe helm
Good subs make it work outside of that meta
potent pivot
and say the same stuff
severe helm
i would like to see you push on sub mewo
Aite bet
What rank do I need to get to on sub
Til I can shit talk it and you won't argue lol
dapper chasm
2.4k is standard "decent rank"
severe helm
Oh ez lol
stiff cedar
im so glad I asked this question i got 20 mins of entertainment from it
dapper chasm
I didn't say it was hard, I said it was decent
stiff cedar
likely more
dapper chasm
Wait, are you USA or EU?
stiff cedar
im invested in the mewo sub arc now
severe helm
Should be fun 😉
dapper chasm
2.4k is about 3k/3.1k in USA
potent pivot
stiff cedar
weren't the only r1 subs last season on NA?
dapper chasm
Well, it's just a fact different regions have different rating caps for decency
potent pivot
i feel like na/eu thing has been disproven so many times
severe helm
It has been
stiff cedar
i feel like na/eu thing has been disproven so many times
it definitely has
dapper chasm
weren't the only r1 subs last season on NA?
Sub players go out and get laid for seasons at a time
That's why it's called mating season
stiff cedar
for seasons at a time?
severe helm
Bad players usually tell themselves otherwise to make them feel better about being hard stuck 2k on eu
potent pivot
xeek got r1 on both regions last season
severe helm
"I'd be r1 if I was NA"
dapper chasm
for seasons at a time?
Daddy horny
stiff cedar
if it lasts more than 4 hours you need to call your doctor brother
potent pivot
i think meep may have as well
dapper chasm
Bad players usually tell themselves otherwise to make them feel better about bei...
To be fair I was talking recently about taking a break and coming back to get 2k in 5 games
But it is a FACT that EU>USA for skill/intellemectuality
stiff cedar
r1 shuffle sub cut off was higher in NA than EU 👀
dapper chasm
That actually proves my point
potent pivot
A little fried to say outlaw is easier than sub
i just think this is a bit wrong to say
dapper chasm
by 11 cr LMAO
I did hear some players went to USA recently from EU
potent pivot
from a perpective of most players
severe helm
They have different difficulties but sub players are sub one tricks for a reason imo
It's an entirely different game playing sub
You skip past so many other aspects of the game most specs deal with
dapper chasm
It's an entirely different game playing sub
Dark Souls vs Mariokart
stiff cedar
i honestly think it might be better to say it takes different skills than it does "more or less" skills
non trolling
stiff cedar
that being said, i don't support the statement sub is harder than outlaw
zanaken is misreading that to trollz
severe helm
Few do outside of sub rogues
In both pve and pvp outlaw is pretty well known to have he hardest rotation
stiff cedar
i think outlaw and arcane have the 2 hardest rotations in the game
but i haven't actually played EVERY spec
severe helm
Arcanes has changed so much though
potent pivot
but the high apm/rotation of outlaw comes easily to me
severe helm
It's gotten easier
stiff cedar
yeah i believe that
severe helm
But arcane is def hard
severe helm
Mage as a whole is a hard class
dapper chasm
My man, this is #pvp and you're talking about rotations - I think this speaks volumes more than any evidence ever could
severe helm
My man, this is <#226359213427916800> and you're talking about rotations - I thi...
Yeah cuz sub players don't have rotations lol
stiff cedar
my bad
severe helm
Gottem
dapper chasm
No, every moment is unique and demanding
stiff cedar
sub rotation is build spend build spend, it's easy to forget rotations exist i get it
severe helm
Crazy you're so lost in the sauce you think rotation doesn't matter in pvp
While you afk behind a pillar going for a restealth between Drs "God I'm so high skilled and gigabrained"
potent pivot
sub rotation is build spend build spend, it's easy to forget rotations exist i g...
basically every rotation in the game boils down to build spend lol
gleaming sentinel
Sub has to compete with weak aura air horn. Everyone just knows to peel dance insta. In shuffle it’s pretty hard for a newer rogue.
dapper chasm
Look at it this way, the other day I caught my wife looking at me and she said "You know, you're a fucking handsome guy"
Has a outlaw player ever heard the same?
stiff cedar
yes
stoic spruce
and then you woke up
austere thorn
this is a very interesting and important discussion I think u guys should keep at it until we get to the bottom of this
potent pivot
l0l
stiff cedar
this is a very interesting and important discussion I think u guys should keep a...
agreed
stiff cedar
The fuck you doing talking to my wife?
idk man i was in the neighborhood /shrug
potent pivot
i just think these guys don't know how to have a discussion with zanaken
severe helm
this is a very interesting and important discussion I think u guys should keep a...
The only bottoms here are sub rogues mains
potent pivot
it's hilarious though yes
dapper chasm
i just think these guys don't know how to have a discussion with zanaken
This isn't a discussion
This is education
stiff cedar
i just think these guys don't know how to have a discussion with zanaken
i'm fully trolling at this point i also wouldn't call it a genuine discussion lmao
severe helm
If this is what you think education is then that explains a lot
dapper chasm
If this is what you think education is then that explains a lot
I'm a smart guy, I've been to over 9 schools
austere thorn
prob pikaboo doing viewer 2s
severe helm
Honestly outside of frost dks I think sub is one of the specs I respect the least
Nah I'm not in pikas carry rating
stoic spruce
he gets it
dapper chasm
Someone got slapped by sub
severe helm
Sub wins more games that it doesn't deserve to more than almost any other
dapper chasm
Case in point
potent pivot
yeah you're fried
severe helm
To beat a sub rogue you have to play way better than them
gleaming sentinel
Cookin
severe helm
You have to trade perfectly
dapper chasm
But you didn't?
severe helm
While they put in minimal effort doing the same goes over and over
But they have the easiest defensive gameplay in the game
Cuz they can just run
With no cost
potent pivot
shuffle has fried your brain my guy
stiff cedar
i mean
dapper chasm
I was into R/M/D myself
stiff cedar
toooooo be fair i've watched the same happen with splay, with cupid, with feral sp, and with tons of other comps as well
stoic spruce
duel removal will weed out some of the bad sub players
potent pivot
yep, the same shit hasn't happened with 3 different outlaw comps in the past few years. nope, never happened.
severe helm
Rmd plays so different from sub rmp
stiff cedar
there was a point in df where cupid could just permanently out rotate rmp even when overlapping constantly
severe helm
Sub rmp isnt even remotely the same comp as any other rmX non sub variants
dapper chasm
Rmd plays so different from sub rmp
I see myself as a support+ class
A conductor
A masterbaiter
severe helm
yep, the same shit hasn't happened with 3 different outlaw comps in the past few...
Yeah cuz outlaw 100-0s you in a 6 second stun yep
stiff cedar
A masterbaiter
this part i believe
gleaming sentinel
dapper chasm
stiff cedar
Yeah cuz outlaw 100-0s you in a 6 second stun yep
i think he meant the constantly overlapping defensives and still winning like you were saying for sub rmp
severe helm
All those 300k between the eyes
potent pivot
i think he meant the constantly overlapping defensives and still winning like yo...
yep
severe helm
i think he meant the constantly overlapping defensives and still winning like yo...
Outlaw can't run
dapper chasm
The hell is between the eyes?
severe helm
Between goes
severe helm
The hell is between the eyes?
Oof
stiff cedar
The hell is between the eyes?
a nose, bozo
dapper chasm
a nose, bozo
Ahh
severe helm
Outlaw also can't use vanish defensively without losing a ton of pressure
dapper chasm
I should add one LITTLE addendum to the discussion - I haven't played Outlaw since it was called combat
But I don't see much difference, spiritually speaking
Combat people are just fucking weird
Do you guys still socket haste gems?
stiff cedar
last ssn AFAIK you played to 10% then went crit
dapper chasm
Fucking weirdos
stiff cedar
tbh, hitting thresholds is more interesting than just max stacking vers mastery on every piece and crafting everything you can't with 0 thought
stiff cedar
feels more classic-y, "you need blank % hit, then go into this"
severe helm
I should add one LITTLE addendum to the discussion - I haven't played Outlaw sin...
That explains a lot honestly
dapper chasm
So you finally agree?
stoic spruce
I miss shadowlands
severe helm
Infinite CDs and just press glowy button
stiff cedar
but excellent content to watch nonetheless
dapper chasm
Infinite CDs and just press glowy button
So you agree?
gleaming sentinel
Red buff killing spree was pretty nuts too
stiff cedar
i think evasion and cloak should get added back to restless blades baseline
stiff cedar
also fdk should be immune to cc during pillar of frost like monk is during conduit, only fair
severe helm
But rogue has enough defensive even with vanish being an offensive button
severe helm
also fdk should be immune to cc during pillar of frost like monk is during condu...
LOL
stiff cedar
You can take a talent for it if you want
not for cloak (also i was trolling, i don't think that whatsoever, i actually think CDR on defensives is just unhealthy game design in general)
potent pivot
also fdk should be immune to cc during pillar of frost like monk is during condu...
yep same for sub during flag
dapper chasm
I'm mostly happy with sub, but I do wish healthpools were lower
stiff cedar
yep same for sub during flag
wings should give auto bubble with no forb
potent pivot
trueing !!
stoic spruce
also fdk should be immune to cc during pillar of frost like monk is during condu...
real, kinda wild how anything with a disarm completely counters the spec
stiff cedar
okay unironically
stoic spruce
really just needs disarm protection
stiff cedar
i think shaman might be the hard counter to current fdk
severe helm
real, kinda wild how anything with a disarm completely counters the spec
God I wish disarm stopped fdk damage
That'd be nice
stiff cedar
because when i watched kalv get shockwaved during pillar
it knocked him far enough that the shaman was out of the circle
dapper chasm
What on earth is fdk?
severe helm
Thunderstormed?
stiff cedar
and you are almost rooted on fdk so he couldn't get back in
severe helm
But yeah fdk is so unfun to play against
dapper chasm
Is fdk a combat thing?
severe helm
Lolol
severe helm
Lol this guy doesn't know priest has thunderstorm
potent pivot
mewo do you have a maghar orc for pve or u just use ur nelf or pvp rogue
severe helm
Nelf always for me
stiff cedar
Lol this guy doesn't know priest has thunderstorm
can tell he hasn't played since cata
severe helm
I hear dwarf is bis though still
dapper chasm
Lol this guy doesn't know priest has thunderstorm
Still roflol'd my way to 2k
That's sub power
I had macros from 2009
And I'm kinda getting used to the dragons/edgy-boys/monks
stiff cedar
edgy boys?
stiff cedar
ah
stiff cedar
yeah
stiff cedar
i just wasn't sure, when i think "edgy boys" i think venthyr rogues tbh so
dapper chasm
No, it's 3 whole new classes to deal with
Plus 3 new furry races
Which doesn't sound like a lot, but it's still weird it's 3
stiff cedar
3 new classes?
dapper chasm
No, specifically furry races
Pandas/Dragons (but like clearly hentai dragons, not cool dragons) / Weird fox things
And some guy clearly added new customisation options to humans and some manager went "that's a whole new race right there, Toby" and cut himself a bonus
Same guy sees people over 6 foot IRL and goes "Woah, are you even HUMAN?"
Man, I just miss the Grizzly Hills music
stoic spruce
im starting to think this guy actually plays sub rogue
stiff cedar
Man, I just miss the Grizzly Hills music
This is your best take of the night ngl
stoic spruce
of course sub is as good as it is when its been taking everything from Outlaw since SL
severe helm
Nah if you play sub you're actually like 600 rating higher on any other spec but you have to keep your power level down to not demolish people
So you gimp yourself playing sub
Goku with ankle weights
Not that you'd play another spec cuz it would just be unfair to everyone else
dapper chasm
I did say broken clocks are right TWICE a day
dapper chasm
Frankly, I'm glad we lost Shadowy Duel - it will help... clarify things
severe helm
replace everything Mewo said with "rogue"
In df I did this when ret was op
Easiest 3k of my life
No joke
Holy fuck that spec is boosted
potent pivot
this past season was the first time i played more than 1 alt seriously
and the difference is definitely staggering
severe helm
I alted a LOT in DF
I'm actually a shadow priest main
Lol
But their discord is boring
And spriest got like no changes from Df to tww
potent pivot
warrior/dk are free 2ks
i didn't play ret as much
ret felt too weird
felt like i'd have been better off playing hpal in some lobbies
fucking healing people and shit
got 1.8 on warrior without trinkets basically
easiest class i've ever played in pvp
severe helm
Ret just felt like there was a whole second set of healer CDs in the lobby
Sanc sac loh bop wogs
Freedom
hidden moth
Same guy sees people over 6 foot IRL and goes "Woah, are you even HUMAN?"
felt
as a 6'3 dude i get discrimination for being so tall
its not all lollipops and rainbows
potent pivot
is fatebound the play for 2s?
feel like you can kinda play whatever for 2s but KB or envenom build might go hard
outer sky
feel like you can kinda play whatever for 2s but KB or envenom build might go ha...
ive actually had better luck in 2s with the AoE build than the KB build
havent tried envenom
idk how
potent pivot
just try to supercharge your darkest night env
stoic spruce
Supersharter
hidden moth
With the talent from death stalker to make envenom hit 18% harder as well
severe helm
just try to supercharge your darkest night env
Dude yeah those hit for like 3 mil
potent pivot
gonna hit even harder this season too
gleaming pawn
man, it got weird in here tonight
potent pivot
rogue on rogue violence 
gleaming pawn
Outlaw and Sub dick measuring and saying who has it harder to play well, while Sin is just quietly sitting in the corner trying not to cry
potent pivot
idk why they keep buffing sin aoe
gleaming pawn
I fucking hate it
gleaming pawn
Sin is borderline OP
Sin's damage can be good for Rogue. But it takes so much damage it's dumb
stoic spruce
true
glass hazel
isnt st like super bad?
potent tiger
why did they remove pvp boxes already? thats dumb
hazy monolith
yo guys im coming back to outlaw, are the rumors right we are s tier?
indigo hill
Probably just gonna remain a rumors till the season starts.
rustic isle
Is there an ideal way to gear? Like things you should spend conquest on first?
stoic spruce
mainstat pieces first
river pollen
indigo hill
Haven't met allot of subs that knew what to do with dual. They always used it on me when I got all my cd's and full health.
stoic spruce
no such thing as a bad sub just a bad sub player
normal zealot
old dome
We have any clue about state of specs? Wondering if I should go for main stat Sub or Out.
tender ember
there is no gear available so u cant say anything
from history since basically df s1: assa- best for low cr to medium glad range; sub- hardly nerfed through season if dmg is too big, hard to succed, very depresive when all play to interupt u during dance; outlaw: fun to play, bad in arena if u r low cr to low glad player, bis rog spec on high glad- r1 range
and i dont expect this to change
hidden moth
We have any clue about state of specs? Wondering if I should go for main stat Su...
Nahj on stream said he thinks assa is top spec
Just bc outlaw lost good util and sub has a shit damage profile bc everytime sub has a go they have a defensive vs assa being the easiest spec just roleplaying as a lock
And “having more cc than sub”
dark kernel
Just bc outlaw lost good util and sub has a shit damage profile bc everytime sub...
Pretty much, of all the specs, sin didn't lose damage this patch and the feint change is an actual defensive boost.
old dome
Ty for information! @hidden moth assa is the spec I found hardest. But playing and learning is the motto.
dapper chasm
Haven't met allot of subs that knew what to do with dual. They always used it on...
Did the duel END with you having all your CDs and full health?
dapper chasm
#almosthaiku
stoic spruce
So true
Yknow
You're the only sub main I like
Had to think about it after saying jic I got hit with a little more brain juice but yeah. I think you're it.
indigo hill
Did the duel END with you having all your CDs and full health?
Yes cause I ran away. 😂
dapper chasm
That's some Art of War wisdom right there
Of course, the ultimate victory is uninstalling
teal prawn
what would be the one-shot rotation for sub for like open world pvp, I feel like I don't have time to press flag
dapper chasm
"One-shot rotation" - now we're doing a single hand clapping
This discord is going all philosophical on me
dark kernel
what would be the one-shot rotation for sub for like open world pvp, I feel like...
Use stuns and cooldowns and press eviscerate in between
teal prawn
ye I was looking for something more specific, I understand what needs to happen
dark kernel
ye I was looking for something more specific, I understand what needs to happen
It's 5 minutes long.
It's also still accurate
hidden moth
Ty for information! <@305506273552498690> assa is the spec I found hardest. But ...
Meanwhile I can’t learn sub
dark kernel
Meanwhile I can’t learn sub
DW it's pretty shit anyway
potent tiger
I def think sin was easiest of the 3 to learn
3 dots up, big cd, kidney shot + shiv + smokebomb, envenom spam = win
exotic dove
I def think sin was easiest of the 3 to learn
I think the same way however, it is not the first time I have heard assa was the most difficult for others though.
old dome
I just feel so slow and energy starved when playing assa
Bare in mind im a baddie at 1.8k so I might be doing stuff wrong.
exotic dove
Any Rogue spec in general is not like a BM Hunter or Frost Dk as far as ease but over time I think you can improve so keep at it. It could be build etc but I don't really know what you doing wrong. Shadenox is someone you can watch videos on youtube of his gameplay and see how he does things maybe that will help
proven stump
from history since basically df s1: assa- best for low cr to medium glad range; ...
so outlaw is the best in very high CR?
potent pivot
Nah
I think he’s trying to say something about their difficulty but that can be subjective
potent pivot
can anyone do an explainer why i do 300k dps in shuffle
As what spec
prime ocean
combat
potent pivot
You should be going for high uptime and extending ADR with vanish etc
Can def do more than 300k
potent pivot
feel like its always been this way?
Most of the time yeah
prime ocean
how does vanish extend adr?
potent pivot
I’d say sub is the highest skill ceiling spec
potent pivot
how does vanish extend adr?
Through those talents you’ve got that you should definitely read all of
prime ocean
xd
exotic dove
I’d say sub is the highest skill ceiling spec
Yeah I agree
severe helm
can anyone do an explainer why i do 300k dps in shuffle
take a look at the #outlaw-faq channel
outlaw has a lot of rotational rules that improve your dps
the spec is all about maintaining adr buff
which you do by milking your cdr which is done by using your cps as efficiently as possible
so it all boils down to being good with builder/spender rules
your main window that generates a lot of cdr is vanish(subterfuge) so you gotta be sure not to get cced on that
most people nowadays are tracking your subterfuge as outlaw so specs like hunter/ww/war/lock/etc are all looking to scatter/disarm/incap/etc on you during that window
potent pivot
ye that's a big one
severe helm
Yeah adr is a huge damage increase for outlaw but since you can get its uptime close to 70-80% in pvp, we are balanced around having it up so when its down you just kinda do miserable damage haha
prime ocean
feels a lot better already thansk guys
dapper chasm
Is the new honor gear going to be better than the current epics?
potent pivot
yes
dapper chasm
Bah
dapper chasm
Is the cap gonna do it?
potent pivot
Is the cap gonna do it?
wdym
like will cap buy full set?
a full honor set should be 10.5k honor
severe helm
I think you only need like 11000
yeah its p cheap
everyone is effectively instantly full geared haha
potent pivot
yeah
and you really don't even need that
because you can get 2 bloody token pieces
2 conquest pieces
and 2-3 crafted conquest pieces
all week 1
potent pivot
they reset
dapper chasm
Well, fuck me
potent pivot
i've been spending all of mine and using them on the catalyst for the LFR recolor of the set
potent pivot
dapper chasm
Can't improve on perfection
potent pivot
there's some specific stuff i want to go back and farm
dapper chasm
But why?
potent pivot
like some castle nathria stuff is sick
dapper chasm
But will you use it?
potent pivot
yeah
dapper chasm
More than the farm itself took?
dapper chasm
Nah, I dig it, but I got 14 transmogs
potent pivot
since you unlock all items for all classes now
potent pivot
yes zanaken, some of us play multiple classes
dapper chasm
My mage and priest haven't been touched in 15 years
And I'm just sitting on those tokens for free level ups
dapper chasm
You must be having 10x the fun to me then
lusty meteor
Can someone give me a quick sub opener for this season pls
or is there one pasted i missed?
buff - evis - ss - ST - keep lock - ss evis - ss evis?
some thing like that
lusty meteor
ty
hybrid palm
Survivability got dumpstered after removal cloak veil talent
austere thorn
The new feint talent is nice as fuck tho
potent pivot
@cyan gate can't use the server as LFG
hybrid palm
The new feint talent is nice as fuck tho
I would trade it for veil cloak
austere thorn
Veil cloak should never made it live
austere thorn
I mean we are strong defensively that we get to use vanish, one of the strongest defensives in the game as part of our damage rotation
hybrid palm
Literally every class has strongest defensive in the game :D, nothing special about vanish, veil cloak was special
Without veil cloak, with bleeds you just re appear in 3 seconds on map, n get cannoned like a ...
N what else is a pala bubble? It's the same thing as veil cloak pretty much, but that continues to exist
last jasper
6 sec with cloaked in shadows. 6sec is more than enough for ur healer to pop u back
deft spear
I’m so undecided. If you had to choose a ebg spec which would you choose?
lost quest
dapper chasm
Vanish gives a shield if bleeds scare you so much
But realistically, how long do you want?
Are you looking for like a full cheese reset?
hybrid palm
Are you looking for like a full cheese reset?
Veil literally forced reapplication by enemy , even if you didn't vanish
dapper chasm
Sure, but it DID feel cheesy vs Ass/Feral and stuff
hybrid palm
N I don't see how vanish compares with veil :D, veil literally deleted enemy damage on you, vanish does not. Veil also secured safer vanishes into stealths of your control
hybrid palm
Sure, but it DID feel cheesy vs Ass/Feral and stuff
Then what is bubble ?
dapper chasm
I was talking about you saying you would pop out after 3 secs of vanish
dapper chasm
Then what is bubble ?
A core class move, not a PvP talent?
hybrid palm
I was talking about you saying you would pop out after 3 secs of vanish
Usually do, just laying out the benefits
dapper chasm
And I was just saying it's not really fucking with vanish that much
It came, it went
It shall be missed, but bye bye
dapper chasm
I actually prefer feeling like a glass cannon rather than the diamond cannon I came back to
gleaming pawn
Zanaken, roll Assa so you can feel more glass than canon
deft spear
I hear a lot about outlaw for rb/blitz but sin/sub ranked way above them on murloc meta. Is that ranking misleading?
dapper chasm
Zanaken, roll Assa so you can feel more glass than canon
Cannon first - glass is the flavour
potent pivot
I hear a lot about outlaw for rb/blitz but sin/sub ranked way above them on murl...
i wouldn't worry about whats the highest rating man, just play the spec you want to play
rogue as a whole is one of the best bg classes in the game
deft spear
Yeah. I like them all. Just wanna see where to spend my honor first lol
deft spear
Honestly I was just looking at that
Outlaw felt funny in pve but I’ve never tried it in pvp. Might try it tonight and see
hybrid palm
With veiled cloak gone it's more profitable to play cheat death , correct ?
hybrid palm
The two talents stack ?
potent pivot
yes
dapper chasm
That reminds me - I tested Tricks of the Trade
And it's fucking disgusting
Time it right and shit explodes
And people literally whisper you after to say thanks in shuffle!
Like - one guy, but still!
hybrid palm
Does trickster keep tricks perma buffed ?
gleaming pawn
Time it right and shit explodes
That’s why Trill always plays Tricks during the AWC. Always buffing the boomie or whatever Sam is playing
dapper chasm
I think what I love most about it is knowing other rogues will refuse to run it
Ego and all that
potent pivot
a lot of ppl run it tho
i think that will also increase with the other pvp talent removals
gleaming pawn
Yeah for sure
potent pivot
now we just need a WA to auto tricks the other dps in the lobby
like we have for tanks in pve kek
dapper chasm
Back in my day it was a standard move
And it made rogues better at PvP - it forced you to pay attention to your teammate's CDs
gleaming pawn
now we just need a WA to auto tricks the other dps in the lobby
You can kinda do that already with framesort I believe
potent pivot
yeah there's def ways to do it
dapper chasm
You can kinda do that already with framesort I believe
Tell me more
gleaming pawn
Because you can say to sort healers first, yourself last, etc
potent pivot
the weakaura just makes it super simple
dapper chasm
Weakaura?
potent pivot
ye
dapper chasm
Well, don't be coy
dapper chasm
That does not sound hard at all
dapper chasm
Mate, I've uploaded way better stuff to here to ZERO applause
gleaming pawn
No no, upload it to WAGO
dapper chasm
I stand by my energy bar being the sexiest
Plus my vanisher icon is more relevant than ever
potent pivot
uploading to wago is the way
dapper chasm
With the ability to show when bleeds are up, magic dots etc
gleaming pawn
When is Sin getting better pvp talents
dapper chasm
And what was that earlier about group reordering? I thought only leader can do that?
gleaming pawn
Smoke bomb needs to be baseline again, and Hemotoxin should either be baseline or removed
hybrid palm
And it made rogues better at PvP - it forced you to pay attention to your teamma...
I don't even run pvp weak auras, another reason veil removal bad
dapper chasm
You don't run addons?
gleaming pawn
And what was that earlier about group reordering? I thought only leader can do t...
Group ordering for targeting like @party1 is client side, so controlable by addon
gleaming pawn
Framesort addon let’s you make yourself always be first or last, can make tanks and healers sort special as well these days
hybrid palm
I climbed duelist without it 😄
dapper chasm
Group ordering for targeting like @party1 is client side, so controlable by addo...
That's great! What addon?
gleaming pawn
Framesort
dapper chasm
This already does everything you might want the weakaura to do
hybrid palm
Tricks talent means losing black jack though
dapper chasm
Blackjack is trash imo
The only good use case is you stun into blind into sap the healer
Shuffle will not allow that
Sap on opener is usually followed straight away with a stun
hybrid palm
I throw airborne blind on full team 😄
dapper chasm
https://wago.io/kQ2LnX4zP
This weakaura has amazing documentation - you should be able to easily make the changes you want yourself
My man described every line of code
Just edit these 2 lines and go
potent pivot
I’m still terrible at making WAs
dapper chasm
My God, whoever coded this was like the messiah of documentation
dapper chasm
I’m still terrible at making WAs
Start with this, this is like a baby project
And daddy is there holding your hand
I prefer the framesort addon myself
Jesus, this framesort addon is strong
Auto-targeting healers/dps etc
gleaming pawn
Aye, it’s come a long way from when I used it to always force my healer alt to be at the bottom
dapper chasm
I can make some funky-ass macros with this
Like, never needing to focus healer at round start
Just have "Do on healer, unless focus exists, then do on focus"
I guess it's kinda pointless as I have focus123 and tar123, but still
For TotT it's certainly useful
Wait, it's even better, as it will auto-target other-dps in BGs too
That was essentially the weakness of Tricks
hybrid palm
I feel blizzard should delete pvp addons more than stuff like duel n veil
dapper chasm
Why?
hybrid palm
Ability to track enemy stuff is not pvp
gleaming pawn
They cannot delete addons in just pvp, so it will never happen
hybrid palm
Does dota allow you track enemy cd ? Or does cs allow you to see enemy weapon
dapper chasm
The only thing that addons give is DR tracking, and even then, we used to use the stopwatch macros
dapper chasm
No, you can literally use macros and stopwatches
gleaming pawn
I do agree that it used to be a skill expression seeing CDs being used and reacting accordingly. And now most just have a WA scream at them when the damage is coming
potent pivot
Just takes some brain power off of it to be used elsewhere if you have addons
hybrid palm
Ya but these addons from what I see give icons n flashes on screen, giving absolute visual cues
gleaming pawn
But you’ve just gotta evolve with the times, because they aren’t going to get rid of addons
dapper chasm
Maybe I'm thinking more about my own UI - I don't do much tracking
potent pivot
They will never remove them
dapper chasm
It's mostly just visual polish to the blizz ui
potent pivot
They even allow them in tournaments now
hybrid palm
That's not pvp :D, lmao can literally see when icy veins is popped
potent pivot
You can see that without addons
dapper chasm
Yeah, I don't track that beyond the buffs/debuffs next to target frame
hybrid palm
How?
potent pivot
Their buffs
dapper chasm
That's how I see it
hybrid palm
Ya but in the middle of fight how does one inspect them
potent pivot
When you target them or focus them they are under their frames
dapper chasm
And see the buff
hybrid palm
In base UI ?
potent pivot
Yes
dapper chasm
This guy can't be serious
hybrid palm
Never seen it
dapper chasm
How do you think people track it?
hybrid palm
With addon? I dunno
dapper chasm
Guesswork or addons?
gleaming pawn
Admittedly the absolutely stock base UI is trash for buff tracking
gleaming pawn
It’s not impossible, but it leaves much to be desired
hybrid palm
How to look ??
dapper chasm
Visually
hybrid palm
I use base game
dapper chasm
Yeah, it's there
hybrid palm
Visually what 😄
dapper chasm
I will repeat, the ONLY THING that the addons are giving is DR tracking
potent pivot
Target someone and look under your target frame
dapper chasm
The rest is just making shit pretty
potent pivot
You can see all their buffs/debuffs
hybrid palm
Under the target frame I'll see umpteen things
potent pivot
Yes
hybrid palm
How do you check for a deathmark ?
high summit
Hi, sorry to barge in with stupid questions. Conquest will reset on season start right, how about bloody tokens n honor?
potent pivot
On your own debuffs
At the top right of the screen, unless you moved them elsewhere
potent pivot
Hi, sorry to barge in with stupid questions. Conquest will reset on season start...
Only honor won’t reset
hybrid palm
Not moved, I use base ui
potent pivot
You know where to look at your own buffs and debuffs?
hybrid palm
Yes I know debuffs
potent pivot
That’s where Deathmark on you would be
high summit
Only honor won’t reset
So then i can full send all BT and Conquest on my newly dinged toon?
potent pivot
So then i can full send all BT and Conquest on my newly dinged toon?
Yeah they reset
hybrid palm
I see a bunch of garottes etc, but I have to search for deathmark in that list ?
dapper chasm
How do you check for a deathmark ?
You realise every box has its own picture?
hybrid palm
Right next to the map
dapper chasm
Ok, so I think I see the issue, you can't notice individual icons from the group they're in?
hybrid palm
I see garrotte bone spike , n get a feel for incoming damage n react
N for mages I don't have time to click on his icon n figure out if he is in veins
Especially if he is not my target
Or focus
dapper chasm
Ok, in that case you want what?
severe helm
There's far too many junk buffs
If add-ons didn't make it easier to see important info then no one would be using them
But they do
potent pivot
You can see all of this shit without addons, addons just make it more apparent
severe helm
So people do
dapper chasm
Base blizzard UI allows hiding most junk buffs
severe helm
I could also stream you a series of binary that defines all the abilities
Technically it's all the same info
But presentation matters
hybrid palm
So let's say I'm just training healer n mage pops icy veins, how will I know ?
With base ui
dapper chasm
By focusing mage
severe helm
You wont unless you have them on focus
hybrid palm
So before round have to focus ?
dapper chasm
You should be swapping target and focus with binds
No, with binds
Target 1/2/3 and focus 1/2/3
I use XCV and ctrl-XCV
severe helm
yeah but you dont spam swap focus between the two arena targets you arent on
dapper chasm
So say healer is V, I press ctrl-X as I swap
hybrid palm
As in, you can focus all three ?
dapper chasm
But do swap focus if targeting your focus
stoic spruce
Sub rmp is gods gift to this game 
chrome schooner
Not every enemy is doing something super dangerous 100% of the time
severe helm
I honestly play with healer as focus always
chrome schooner
There's no need to have hyper awareness and frame visual on everyone all the time to play
hybrid palm
Ok, so what's this focus play then
severe helm
dont do what hes saying
zukz
use addons
like everyone else
theres a reason its the norm
its cuz its better and less effort for the same/more info
dapper chasm
I honestly play with healer as focus always
I use focus dismantle and focus shiv a fair bit
severe helm
I use arena 1 2 3 dismantle
hybrid palm
Addons will give all info without focus ?
dapper chasm
I should add I use a 4 button mouse
severe helm
I just have arena 1 2 3 for all cc
severe helm
Addons will give all info without focus ?
yes
potent pivot
use addons
He’s speaking from a stand point of not wanting to use addons and that they should be removed from the game…
hybrid palm
He’s speaking from a stand point of not wanting to use addons and that they shou...
Ya
severe helm
He’s speaking from a stand point of not wanting to use addons and that they shou...
ah
for the purpose of what?
hybrid palm
But I didn't know it's literally that information
dapper chasm
Well, I don't wana use demon hunters and think they should be removed from the game
severe helm
I mean theres some info that you cant get
unless youre reading hte combat log
like I have a wa that triggers an audio effect when a hunter throws his trap
before it even lands
I know its coming
and can lifegrip my healer
you cant do that without an addon
dapper chasm
Ewww
severe helm
unless youre staring at the hunter 24/7 and looking at his animation
theres lots of abilities that dont have buffs
for example sec tech
I have audio queue for when thats pressed
so I know ima bout to get hit for 3 fucking million
dapper chasm
The only audio weakaura I use is a satisfying ting-ting-ting on my combo points and the old-school crit sound on my crits
hybrid palm
For example, I've noticed, many times I use blades 2nd time enemy team always ready with cc, n I end up hitting barely 4-5 seconds with blades, how was that possible
severe helm
yeah its a weak aura
hybrid palm
Which one exactly
severe helm
theres hundreds
you can make one yourself
could also be big debuffs
or gladius
they all track this
dapper chasm
But there is a flipside to that - I notice that sometimes I eat CD CCs for popping something when it would have done very little
severe helm
could just be nameplate addon
dapper chasm
It's still important to have awareness
severe helm
Yeah if you notice people have this behavior you can bait their responses
dapper chasm
It's why I love simple moves like shiv - they can end a man's career in such a simple way
hybrid palm
But coming back to my main gripe, game better without enemy tracking
ionic orbit
What are the best weapons right now for sub rogues and how do you get them?
hybrid palm
I mean I will do adapt to meta, but tracking enemy is not pvp
severe helm
But coming back to my main gripe, game better without enemy tracking
not really
dapper chasm
It literally is
severe helm
its different
not better
like saying game would be better without arena 1 2 3 macros
jsut cuz you arent the one using them
doesnt make it better without them
potent pivot
What are the best weapons right now for sub rogues and how do you get them?
You will just replace them after the weekly reset. Wouldn’t bother right now
dapper chasm
I mean I will do adapt to meta, but tracking enemy is not pvp
What is PvP to you?
severe helm
I mean I will do adapt to meta, but tracking enemy is not pvp
tracking enemy is all of pvp
whether its done by staring at shitty default UI buffs
or via weak auras
its the same game
and the same players will be good
hybrid palm
What is PvP to you?
I don't know, but surely not knowing enemy cds 😄
dapper chasm
I don't really bother tracking CDs
gleaming pawn
….
severe helm
lolol
chrome schooner
"knowing and being aware of what the enemy player can do is not player versus player"
dapper chasm
I can headcount what I need to based on my own CDs
hidden moth
i dont need to watch their cds to know WARRIOR IS GLOWING BIG AND RED HE USED AVATAR
gleaming pawn
Knowing what your enemy used and reacting to it is literally the basest form of pvp