pvp

[pallid onyx]

i can work with apm

right now i find myself after the initial burst windows

starved and doing nothing

[digital rock]

i got 2100 in blitz and shuffle pretty much just playing like a warrior as outlaw

i pick a target and run them into the ground

[pallid onyx]

thats why i don't want to play outlaw

[digital rock]

sometimes i stun other people if they do something spooky

[pallid onyx]

it doesn't really feel like rogue rogue

[digital rock]

true

[pallid onyx]

i mean i feel like

if i let someone play on my acc someone with exp they can shred

where I can shred 4 out of 10 times

do something meaningful on 1 point if not shredding

and then the rest 5 is im doing absolutely zero

[digital rock]

couldnt that be said of doing anything that someone with more experience than you would perform better

[pallid onyx]

yeah

[digital rock]

126 rounds is not that many per se

[pallid onyx]

basically

the problem is

[digital rock]

if htis is ur first ssn as rogue

[pallid onyx]

there are no good guides

yes

first season

there are no nothing man

i mean i figured even my rotation by myself right

[digital rock]

watching streamers best way to learn

[pallid onyx]

maybe it's wrong

[digital rock]

guides become outdated in weeks

[pallid onyx]

i mean i don't know any assa streamers

[digital rock]

or if you get shit on by someone notice what they did and steal it

[pallid onyx]

never played against another assa

[digital rock]

could be a clue lol XD

[pallid onyx]

yeah

shit there are no rogues in dornogal to ask

they really need to make a pvp hub in this game

like i want to learn geniunely

i love rogue

tbh im gonna do a leap of faith and try sub soon

because listen

doesn't it make more sense

if you wanna cheapshot someone you don't have to press vanish

you have lots of options

shadowy duel, dance etc

well garrote is good and its silence is massive

[pastel burrow]

sub is a lot of fun but do be prepared to be immediately cc'd whenever you try to kill someone

[pallid onyx]

but idk if it's worth

i usually prepop cloak which is probably the shittiest thing ever

[pastel burrow]

outlaw and assassination at least can consistently beat down on someone

[pallid onyx]

mate, if you call it beating down on someone XD

[pastel burrow]

but sub the second you hit shadow blades or shadow dance you're getting your ass slapped

[pallid onyx]

5 out of 10 games i get starved and you know what

[digital rock]

yea hes right

[pallid onyx]

they DON'T even care

i had a match

where mage didn't even run away from me

he sat there and i had no energy

no cooldowns

i felt like a dummy lol

and he didn't even peel cc etc. he just hit my teammate and won

like i said im doing something wrong

and i wanna learn

but i cannot find WHAT

[pastel burrow]

hey man, ultimately right, get those reps in, doesnt matter the spec, just do whatever keeps you playing, its the best way to eventually learn

im just saying as a sub main ive barely played sub this season lmao, assa and outlaw are so much more comfy

[pallid onyx]

true but if you don't know why you are missing

[digital rock]

all im saying is if someone sits there and tanks my crackshot window they definitely are gonna feel that shit. i agree w what jack said tho that reps and games played are the make or break. for your first season as rogue these seem like normal complaints to have about the class

[pallid onyx]

no matter how many games you play you will miss

i just wanna understand what I am doing wrong and thats all lol, i hope i can thanks guys

[pastel burrow]

thats completely fair yeah, especially on rogue its easy to feel at a loss in pvp

is this ur first season playing rated

[digital rock]

jsut keep going and find the lesson in every frustration

the problem has the answer

[pallid onyx]

for example this round i bursted the dude good yeah

i just killed the druid in one go

but there was games where I sat down and look at the CD's

40 sec vanish, no tea left

zero energy, enemy pumping dps XD

[pastel burrow]

assa will eventually run a bit dry yeah, just gotta make sure you're always dotting 2 guys

3 guys is great but dont go out of ur way for it

[pallid onyx]

you know i struggle against when people play apart

and alot

i mean there is a mage holyp warlock comp

warlock is here and mage is over there

holy is on the middle

[pastel burrow]

yea its rough out there when ur against two ranged

[pallid onyx]

i can't do fuckshit, i go rupture one and the other guy, then nothing happens

[pastel burrow]

especially if they know to basically surround your ass

[pallid onyx]

rupture ticks 10k and thats all lmao

idk i get turbo annoyed it

it's maybe something small

i won't even know

i hate wow pvp entry barrier because of this

you wouldn't know, if it was any other game i would look up analyze and say "hey this is what I was doing wrong all along"

[digital rock]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-sparrow-pirates-of-the-carribean-gun-point-gif-14442839

[pallid onyx]

is it.. time for me?

😄

is it really between the eyes, pistolshot, ambush and nothing else..

I see nothing before me.. only.. pirates..

[indigo hill]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The specs speak for themselves. Outlaw a cool AF name for a spec. Ass not a great name. Sub? That's a bottom.

[pallid onyx]

hell no

HELL NAWL

[severe helm]

outlaw just has a hard rotation

and if you do it wrong

you will run out of energy, lose Adrenaline rush uptime, lose vanishes so you lose stuns, etc

[normal zealot]

i feel that, im playing assa as well but idk what im doing

but having fun tbh

[severe helm]

its one of the only specs in the game where if you do the rotation wrong you dont just do less damage but you actually have less cooldowns

[safe pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/shit-leslie-jordan-gif-11334450875675318506

Me when i get no ace procs

Assa is easy bro to the guy struggling you can literally get 1800 just triple garroting the opener and kidney the healer off DR , keep your bleeds up at all time. Practice makes perfect the spec is insanely easy to apply pressure rn. Sub won’t be easier & Mewo spoke on outlaw already

[normal zealot]

what is DR?

[safe pelican]

Diminishing Returns I’m driving rn can’t go to into detail but google it or someone else will chime in

[normal zealot]

tyvm, i didnt know what that abbreviation was. Ill look it up 👍

drive safe

[digital rock]

what

what about outlaws rotation is hard aside from it being fast

you spam your gun when you can and you spam everything else when u cant

maybe i miissing something XD

[jolly sierra]

@stoic spruce thought you were the guy here speaking in that crazy speech you usually have

as both are outlaws lol

[pallid onyx]

well obviously you are worse than where I am friend XDD

but it is good that you are having good time

[indigo hill]

Rotation in itself is not hard. Pretty straight forward. You do need the up time to get the cool downs down faster. If you mess up your vanishes, defenses and stuns you're gonna have a hard time.

[severe helm]

if this is what you think the rotation is then its prob why youre doing bad dps on outlaw lol

theres a lot of small rotational rules people completely ignore that add up in terms of damage

like youre supposed to finish at 6 cp outside of stealth unless you have either an audacity proc or a PS proc then you can finish at 5cp, inside of crackshot windows you can finish at 5cp and you dont use opportunity procs unless you have broadside active. Also you should only go into a crackshot window with 6cp pre built outside of stealth so you dont waste globals inside stealth building to your first bte

also outside of stealth you arent even supposed to bte even if its off cd unless youre about to drop the bte buff or you have ruthless precision buff up

[digital rock]

i didnt say i was doing bad dps as outlaw

i actually suggested outlaw to that other person because it does good dps

thanks for the tips tho :)

good to know about bte outside of stelath, sounsd weird but makes sense

[normal zealot]

Its really difficult to get gud at this game as a regular human

[pallid onyx]

Ouch

thats a bit fried

you will get the hang of it

[dapper chasm]

Yeah, pretty much anyone who's anyone agrees that arena doesn't even start till 2.2k

[indigo hill]

Can just be a bad week. Mine wasn't great last week in arena. Blitz I won 14 out of 17 matches.

Had a healer drop death ASAP and then left in solo

[stoic spruce]

What speech?

[jolly sierra]

like troll

[normal zealot]

this is my first week in pvp

and damn only 14 out of 17.. that sounds like a skill issue

[stoic spruce]

I would never say outlaw is easy

[jolly sierra]

i say, talking in that loose way lol

[glass hazel]

Normal 🙂 took me 700 rounds to duelist started this season as well

[severe helm]

thats dedication

[gleaming sentinel]

Sounds like im on the right track, just need more reps. I tanked pretty hard this week :/

[gleaming sentinel]

Do you just kinda run down 1 target and kidney healer / stun the off target?

[severe helm]

Depends on the matchup but I generally tend to swap on defensives

Have to keep momentum as outlaw so if you train one person too hard you can fall behind

[gleaming sentinel]

Thank you, that’s helpful. I really have a hard with target selection.

[charred prairie]

I finally got it! Now to learn real pvp lmfao

[outer sky]

DAMNIT!!!!!!

The warlock I was pushing glad with

His wife fucking gave birth

Christ

Lady take a trip to Planned Parenthood. We're trying to push glad!!

Now I need to find another lock

Absolute bullshit

[waxen meteor]

damn what's the update today about

why is it so slow

i feel normally 200mb patch takes like 10 seconds

[potent pivot]

maybe a spike in your internet connection? only took me a minute or so

[waxen meteor]

hmm maybe, kinda strange

just started downloading something at steam to compare, not slow at all

it's more the initilizing step being slow

[inner tartan]

in a 1900 mmr game i killed a warlock in 3 seconds as healer kick spinning kick tod

that has got to hurt : ) i should have made pawpicss a vulpera instead of a panda it would have been even better

[waxen meteor]

1900 is basically placement mmr now...

so..

[inner tartan]

ya ik but still

A way 2 much damage for a healer be i never stunned cuz i didnt plan to go for him no cookies no pact

also fuck frost mages i know im playing a troll build but dam fuck of and let me play

[severe helm]

Yeah Monk cranks

Does crazy damage

[inner tartan]

it great i use it 2 get conquest boxes for alts super fast games normal mid rating cuz it not hard to counter but here and there i get 2 be top damage as a healer and even rarer but happened a few time i get 2 solo kill some silly dps

[long shore]

Is it me or I’m not getting any honor and conquest at all

Bugged?

[pliant mauve]

Almost 2300 and realized I don’t really get how veil of midnight works but still use it 100% of the time out of ignorance. Against Disc, Demo, Frost it’s useless, right? Something I should never use into a full caster lobby? Are there any melee where it’s not that good?

Not that it matters anymore anyway, but yolo

[potent pivot]

it's typically going to be more useful again feral/assa really

maybe a couple others

[pliant mauve]

Sub is what brought me here. Didn’t want to drop bomb for disarm but didn’t know if veil would be a good candidate to switch. Dodge chance tells me it would be good but idk

I was Assa against sub

So mostly bleeds and shit though. Makes sense. Thanks!

[potent pivot]

wdym dodge chance

[pliant mauve]

Doesn’t it also give 100% dodge for 6 seconds?

[potent pivot]

nope

[pliant mauve]

I thought it was like evasion

Oh damn lol nvm

[potent pivot]

it was similar to evasion a while back

they changed it

now it basically just removes physical debuffs

and it's being removed next season

[pliant mauve]

lol I mean getting Shadowstriked Evis’d to death seems like something I would consider a harmful physical effect irl but I get it

Damn ok well thanks, good to know

[normal zealot]

that does give me hope, thx 😗

[normal zealot]

should i use my forged glad weapon tokens to get forged glad daggers or just keep my algari comp daggers?

On murlok it seems most just use the algari ones?

[potent pivot]

you typically want to use the tokens before ever crafting weapons

because you just get them for free

then later on, once you're fully geared, you craft weapons to replace them

if you already crafted weapons then it's w/e, just keep it in mind if you ever start playing an alt

[normal zealot]

ahh damn, i fucked up multiple times already lmao. Thx for the info!

is there anything to do with those things here? Those seem like they have no reason to exist lol

[potent pivot]

nope, those are for 613 pvp ilvl crafted gear

[normal zealot]

[jolly sierra]

they were born to be destroyed

[stoic spruce]

Relatable

[gleaming sentinel]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/s/B7cnhLhIkz

This guys must have been playing outlaw

[normal zealot]

here i thought i was collecting something useful

[indigo hill]

Why do people always break your sap and why is it always a warrior or a hunter?

[severe helm]

those specs have very low requirements for game knowledge so especially at lower ratings they are usually the worst/dumbest players in the lobby

gets better as you get higher and arguably melee becomes equally hard at high high ratings

but esp <2k melee like war are just so free cuz casters dont really know how to kite/use defensives yet

[indigo hill]

Anyone got a tracker WA for the bte buff?

[mystic pasture]

TellMeWhen is very simple to use for that sort of thing.

[indigo hill]

That one shows icons not bars like WA can, right?

[potent pivot]

you like those huge patch notes??

[mystic pasture]

If you are a hunter...yet again

[severe helm]

I havent even gone through yet was in a meeting af

wait I dont see anything did we get new notes?

or just the updated tier set

[potent pivot]

i mean WE only got 2 lines

nerfing outlaw

[severe helm]

Oh yeah the tier nerf lol

and sleight of hand nerf

thanks blizz

love to see hardworking devs dedicated to rogue gameplay 😉

[potent pivot]

at this point, we've run out of copium

may as well start huffing galaxy gas

[severe helm]

fr fr though

[potent pivot]

[severe helm]

like its become VERY apparent that there is no one working on rogue in any passionate capacity

[potent pivot]

from what i was told, they don't have any class-specific devs anymore

[severe helm]

thats tragic

[potent pivot]

they just have a class design team that rotates people based on w/e management says or something along those lines

[severe helm]

so why is ele on its 3rd rework lol

[potent pivot]

probably just because shaman was in a dogshit shit/ignored state for so many years

[severe helm]

3 in such close succession feels like a misallocation of resources

do it once and do it correctly like jesus

[potent pivot]

well they're prolly trying to get it all done correctly

they do kinda seem to be rotating heavy changes

but a lot of it seems based on community outcry (classes with more representation have more outcry)

paladin got hella changes and was actually made into something fun, now shaman

and a bit of hunter

here's hoping they keep going through all the classes ig

[atomic zenith]

Rotating changes by focusing on mage and shaman for 2 tiers now

[pallid onyx]

goddamn bro i just lost a match and had -42

when i win i get +20 at best

what the hell

[severe helm]

your mmr is lower than your cr then

or the lobby mmr was lower than you

[pallid onyx]

can someone give me sub rogue opener? I wanna try it, with set bonus too

[potent pivot]

check nahj's youtube shorts

the one he showed a couple months back should still be ok

[pallid onyx]

ty

[pallid onyx]

wait, where is sepsis coming from?

[potent pivot]

it was removed

just skip it

[pallid onyx]

he is using secret tech after he finishes the combo

but tier set gives 7 seconds of finisher damage with secret tech

i think this is outdated AF

[potent pivot]

nah its not

you might not be looking at the right part

[pallid onyx]

why would you waste your secret tech bonus then on the end

[potent pivot]

hang on

[pallid onyx]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WAVWeKeyYMk

im looking at this bro

[potent pivot]

most people don't run 4set btw

[pallid onyx]

his recent video

most recent*

[potent pivot]

ye thats still good

he runs through 2 diff openers

nobody really runs 4 set on sub

if you're going to run it regardless, then just use sec tech instead of the first evis

its not hard to switch around a global or two in the sequence

[pallid onyx]

good idea

i mean i have the gear from assa

thats why

[potent pivot]

word

yeah i'd just swap the sectech in

earlier

it's only like 2 globals earlier, so you're only really adding the buff to 1 evis

but i'd prolly get some craft pieces to replace 2 of your tier pieces

and just run 2 piece

[pallid onyx]

man, climbing with rogues "easiest spec" is much much harder

than climbing with warrior

i got 1800 with warrior too easy

[potent pivot]

which spec

rogue in general is a lot harder than most classes tbf

[pallid onyx]

assassination

i didn't try outlaw though, it doesn't match my style

well assassination doesn't match at all as well with all bleed and stuff going on, i am more of a heavy burst guy but it's much much harder to play as a new player

[inner tartan]

For 1800 I think outlaw and sin need lest skill but I dunno

[pallid onyx]

yeah i think so

like it's not a big deal but i downed myself from high 1600 to low 1600 in 1 game

winning 20 losing 40 is really really excrutiating especially when you think you get a lot of draw lobbies like

sometimes all the CC etc doesn't matter by itself XD

[inner tartan]

I won’t lie on outlaw I just zug zug it shouldn’t work but some how it dose 🤣

[pallid onyx]

because someone else said the same outlaw works like a fury warrior with all the reductions to CD's you get XD

[inner tartan]

I should play sin but I don’t want to cuz they are super squishy

[pallid onyx]

super

[inner tartan]

Ya

[pallid onyx]

the problem is you have to vanish as an active offensive CD

[inner tartan]

Keep uptime high and u reset everything super fast

[pallid onyx]

cloak doesn't feel super good as it did in Cata for me

[inner tartan]

Also yep

[pallid onyx]

also

like if you want to drop target you have to commit your offense to defense which creates this case you have to go in without having a full + full reset

[inner tartan]

They removed the part were cloak gave u 100 percent doge

That was so op and fun

[pallid onyx]

i need someone to hold me and tell me that im gonna make it to 1800 l ol

i understand the game and i actively try to do good lmao

i mean im not the best though

I also don't think how people can "dodge" my disarm but hell yeah why not

[normal zealot]

Is it possible to do delve dungeons and queue for pvp at the same time?

[inner tartan]

Of u to it on 2s and need a healer I got u but I might need to make a new one I think they are all high cr. And u also got to be Us server

[inner tartan]

If the solo pop the delve get reset

[pallid onyx]

just try it with a delve if it doesn't kick you out of queue you are done

[inner tartan]

Atlest when I did it it did

[pallid onyx]

probably because you are getting to another instance

that makes sense

[inner tartan]

It was solo shuffle so ya

[normal zealot]

i see, thx

[pallid onyx]

i would go outlaw and zug to get 1800 but i refuse

no disrespect, just switching my spec because I cannot play it to a certain level feels like im a bot lol

[inner tartan]

Play which ever spec u like all are good

[inner tartan]

I feel that

I need to learn sin thou I got 1 shot thou coccoon 3 times on my nonk

Monk

No other classes has burst that fast thou it war has been close

[pallid onyx]

I wanna play ww too

one of my fav classes

[inner tartan]

I think ww is very good rn

I only used it for meme duel I just pressed random buttons s and kinda delete people so shouldn’t be bad

I don’t think any classes atm is super bad exept maybe fire mage haven’t seen one of those pop of

[severe helm]

The fuck?

Cocoon is like an 8mil shield

[inner tartan]

Yep

I used it at 40 percent health like twice and died thou it

[pallid onyx]

jesus man XD

another draw

[inner tartan]

Why are there so many mages atm

[pallid onyx]

everywhere is a mage

every game there are 2 mages

atleast 1

and i totally hate it

[inner tartan]

I was playing my fw monk yesterday and god dam fuck of and let me play

[pallid onyx]

yeah man idk like

root disorient root blink root blink

%90 cancer slow blink

[pallid onyx]

do you think as assa or any other rogue spec

getting reset with running behind a pillar is a good idea?

to get yourself out of the fight

[potent pivot]

LoSing is always a good thing to do, when you need to

[pallid onyx]

this was the result when I LoS'ed when I was out of energy and

cd's

one of my best results tbh

so far

just starting LoS'ing instead of staying on top like a loser XD

[potent pivot]

You should never really run out of energy as assa

[pallid onyx]

well, when you are out of teas and you continue hitting you get out of energy

even though you have x2 rupture up

and a garrote

idk maybe im burning fast?

[potent pivot]

If you keep bleeds up you should be pretty well off on energy

[pallid onyx]

idk i keep garrote and rupture up all the time like

[potent pivot]

Are you casting mutilate too much?

[pallid onyx]

yes

probably

because im trying to deal damage man XD

[potent pivot]

You wanna use FoK as much as possible

[pallid onyx]

fok

?

[potent pivot]

If you can hit 2 or more targets

Fan of knives

[pallid onyx]

real?

i use it to throw ct

wait

[potent pivot]

Huh

[pallid onyx]

it almost does the same damage with muti

what

[potent pivot]

And it costs less energy

[pallid onyx]

58k vs 60k it shows

WHAT THE ACTUAL DAMN FUCK

[potent pivot]

It just has a chance to build less combo points

That’s why you use it on 2 or more targets

[pallid onyx]

omg

OH MY GOD

okay

[potent pivot]

The damage that mutilate and fok do is pretty irrelevant

[pallid onyx]

idk like

okay listen

here is how I play

please read and tell me what I am doing wrong if you have just 1 minute

[inner tartan]

I might play wrong but I play outlaw like in pve and love uptime but if u can u wanna lose range dps killing ya

[pallid onyx]

when gates open i sprint and sap healer immediately, or anyone rushing like warrior to decrease their damage with Blackjack
I open with cheapshot on kill target followed by ambush shiv and garrote, i throw garrote the last because I don't want it to clash with cheap shot CC
I immediately spend points on rupture, apply deathmark to buff damage, if shiv debuff is down i put shiv again, and envenom

[potent pivot]

garrote first

[pallid onyx]

garrote first okay

[potent pivot]

And you’re wasting shiv putting it that early

[pallid onyx]

but I immediately garrote + rupture after that

[potent pivot]

Garrote ambush rupture shiv

[potent pivot]

But it’s a waste

[pallid onyx]

garrote ambush'ing gets me to 5 points though

[potent pivot]

Okay?

[pallid onyx]

wouldn't it be better to hit 7 before using rupture?

[potent pivot]

Why is that an issue

No

You use finishers on 5 or more combo points

[pallid onyx]

may I ask why? the damage is more that way

[potent pivot]

No

It isn’t

[pallid onyx]

really?

[potent pivot]

Yeah

Combo points only give rupture duration

[pallid onyx]

i mean okay i quite understand

[inner tartan]

It time

For exe how long

[potent pivot]

That only changes its duration

Not it’s damage

[pallid onyx]

yeah i quite understand it now

[potent pivot]

Ah

Mb

[pallid onyx]

it increases damage tho

like overall damage

[potent pivot]

Not really

You will refresh it either way

[inner tartan]

I don’t think at all

[pallid onyx]

okay

[potent pivot]

It’s a waste of combo points to force 7 every time

[pallid onyx]

i love you guys keep talking please

im learning atm my brain activated i de-queued for this shit rn

[potent pivot]

The only time you force 7 combo points is to consume your Darkest Night buff with envenom

[inner tartan]

Dosent sin want coin toss

[pallid onyx]

I see

nope

[inner tartan]

I dunno I have seen both

[potent pivot]

Even non-Darkest Night envenoms, you finish on 5 or more combo points

[pallid onyx]

okay okay trickz keep it up

[potent pivot]

Nope

[pallid onyx]

im learning

really

let's go

lets fucking go

okay so

[inner tartan]

Ahh mb. Big dif between the 2 or not 2 bad

[pallid onyx]

*7 combo points doesn't really do anything and it's a waste of energy
*you only want to use 7 combo points to consume darkest night
*you open with cheap garrote ambush rupture if possible

[potent pivot]

Cheap shot first

Sorry I didn’t specify that earlier

[pallid onyx]

i was telling cuz of this

okay let me change

[potent pivot]

But

[inner tartan]

That reminds me of topic dose the trickster one hour trick or trade and the PvP talent work ( like every 30 second for 6 second during the 1 hour )

[potent pivot]

You can skip cheap shot vs some casters

Since garrote silences

[pallid onyx]

sure

sure yeah

[potent pivot]

Nope

[pallid onyx]

and what about Shiv trickz

[inner tartan]

I assumes so

[pallid onyx]

why wouldn't I put Shiv as soon as I got my rupture and garrote ready

[potent pivot]

Cheap garrote ambush rupture shiv is fine

[inner tartan]

The PvP talent need super good timing thou so for the better

That

[pallid onyx]

and when do I want to use envenom

and what envenom does exactly it's a bit of a mystery

[potent pivot]

So basically

Envenom is mainly just eviscerate

It’s an instant damage finisher

[pallid onyx]

nature damage instant is understandable but the dot after is not clear

[potent pivot]

It’s not a dot

It’s a buff

[pallid onyx]

AH

the damage and the buf

okay

[potent pivot]

It’s mostly unimportant in pvp

The buff I mean

[pallid onyx]

fuck

yeah

i get it

because you apply anyways

the poisons

[potent pivot]

So

Basically every spec in this game

Can be played based on a priority list of your spells

[pallid onyx]

yes

[potent pivot]

Based on the situation

So

Can you only hit 1 target? Use mutilate and envenom

Can you hit 2 or more? Use fan of knives and apply crimson tempest(DO NOT SPAM CT it’s a dot)

[pallid onyx]

i know this

this okay

[potent pivot]

Sec

[pallid onyx]

sure

as NoTrickz talks

my brain gains new crevises and such

i can feel my brain smoothness is decreased by %8

i love this im down for this i need to learn im hungry for knowledge

[inner tartan]

Xd 🤣

[pallid onyx]

could I figure these out by myself maybe at some point

but it would take ages

now I can consume knowledge and step up my game

[inner tartan]

It a lot of reading tool tips and testing but some tool tip are confusing or broken

[pallid onyx]

yeah like envenom

[potent pivot]

ok

so

something to take note of

[pallid onyx]

YES my goat is back

yes sir

✍️ ✍️ ✍️ ✍️ ✍️

[potent pivot]

fan of knives only builds combo points based on hits that crit

but in pvp it will not build any extra combo points from hitting pets

so you want to try and hit 2 or more players with it

but

[pallid onyx]

but it will if I am cleaving 2 pvp class targets

[potent pivot]

crimson tempest

[pallid onyx]

I cast crimson at 5 too right

sometimes

[inner tartan]

Dam that fucked outlaw can take the blade fury talent and build combo point of pets but sin can’t

[pallid onyx]

this happens

[potent pivot]

yes

[pallid onyx]

sometimes I start to build combo points

[potent pivot]

all finishers

[pallid onyx]

to spend on Crimson

okay

listen

but

the catch is

I know the other guy will ditch before I cast it

[inner tartan]

Dose sub shuriken storm build combo points of pets or whatever its called

[pallid onyx]

like blink or dash or something

so I cast it at 2-3 pointsa

points*

[potent pivot]

you can't build combo points off hitting pets

[potent pivot]

i still wouldn't

[pallid onyx]

okay

sure

understood

[potent pivot]

when you force 7 combo points

you risk overcapping, or wasting them basically

[pallid onyx]

ris?

[potent pivot]

which is a waste of energy, waste of combo points, waste of resources=waste of damage

[pallid onyx]

true

%9000 true

[potent pivot]

risk*

[inner tartan]

Oof l

[pallid onyx]

bro you a pirate

[potent pivot]

crimson tempest's compounding effect

works off pets too

[pallid onyx]

i know this

sometimes i feel like it does crazy damage

against cleave

[potent pivot]

so you can CT on 1 player if they have pets around

ye

[pallid onyx]

I can't

really say i know %100 tho

im not sure if thats doing the damage

because like when I cleave with it people just go down

immediately

[potent pivot]

something to note

about CT's compounding effect

[pallid onyx]

ok

[potent pivot]

it happens when CT is applied

[pallid onyx]

means

[potent pivot]

so you'd have to hit those 2+ targets at once to get the amp

[pallid onyx]

sure

oh

so if the target dodges

[potent pivot]

you can't hit 1 target with CT then go hit 1 other target with a second CT

[pallid onyx]

it doesn't count

wait

let's say DH blur is up

i cleave with tempest

DH dodges

[potent pivot]

it's not super important, but that's how it works

[pallid onyx]

do I get damage?

[potent pivot]

if it doesn't apply to them it won't amp

[pallid onyx]

it applies

i can see the debuff on their nameplates

but doesn't take damage i guess

[potent pivot]

then it should ya

[pallid onyx]

ok

example being iceblock

okay cool

so what I learned:

you cast finishers or 5+ cp do not force 7
you only cast max cp envenom when buffed with darkest night
you use fan when there are 2 targets, does same damage with muti and enables you further if you cleave 2 actual targets (not pets)
you open with cheap garrote ambush rupture against melee and garrote ambush rupture against casters, you can skip or delay cheap as they are already useless(can't cast anyways)

[chrome schooner]

well since now you have cheap shot for 6s but garrote silence for 12

[pallid onyx]

every finisher = 5 or more cp do not waste crimson tempest for example on 2 combo points because you want to hit 2 targets at once

[chrome schooner]

you can always start with cheap

you don't need to garrote first to gain cc time as it used ot be vs casters

[pallid onyx]

hmmmmmmmmmm

hm hm hm hm wait i gain more knowledge

let me understand this

[chrome schooner]

in the past u used garrote first because you had 3s of subterfuge so you'd garrote for 2.9s and then cheap with the last frame of subterfuge basically

[pallid onyx]

after silence I have 6 second access to cheapshot

[chrome schooner]

so 7s of cc, when you'd get only 6 if you did cheap > garrote at the last frame of subterfuge when 1 full second of cheap remained

[potent pivot]

after you break stealth

[chrome schooner]

but now the most cc is always triple cheap into triple silence

[pallid onyx]

stealth yeah

[chrome schooner]

if that's what you go for

[pallid onyx]

my bad

so can you simplfy shadenox

for my peasant brain

I can always open with cheapshot

[chrome schooner]

if u want to cc one target for the longest time

[potent pivot]

you can re cheap

[chrome schooner]

you cheap ambush ambush rupture cheap wait a bit (hold global basically) cheap a third time, garrote, some globals, garrote, garrote

[pallid onyx]

okay

and by the way

one question

with subterfuge

should I spam ambush as much as I can

becuse I don't do that and probably this is bad

hits like a truck + 2 combo points

[chrome schooner]

not really

[potent pivot]

not necessarily no

[pallid onyx]

hmm

[chrome schooner]

it doesn't do significant damage

[potent pivot]

you only NEED 1 ambush to get your mark up

[chrome schooner]

it's a filler to get cps in between cc spells if you have dead globals and not full cps

[pallid onyx]

thats what i am doing trickz

[potent pivot]

other than that it's just combo points yeh

[pallid onyx]

okay

but it should replace

mutiliate

in that position

[potent pivot]

ye that's fine

[pallid onyx]

if i have access to ambush

then I should stop using mutiliate

in this example

[chrome schooner]

there are some reasons to sometimes use mutilate instead

but it's very rare

so don't concern yourself with it

[pallid onyx]

okay i won't

[chrome schooner]

it's very useless min maxing

:p

[potent pivot]

mutilate can gen more combo points if it crits, but it's not a mandatory optimization

[chrome schooner]

but basically sometimes it would give you 1 more cp

[inner tartan]

I don’t use it in pve but dosent splatter start of mutate

[chrome schooner]

but since garrote gives 3 when subt is up you usually don't need more cps so it's fine

[potent pivot]

we've got such low crit rn as well

[pallid onyx]

so for burst opener can I do this

[inner tartan]

Like u put dots on target then mutate

[chrome schooner]

it does but you don't play splatter in pvp

[pallid onyx]

guys

for burst opener

can I go like

cheap ambush ambush garrote rupture shiv deathmark

[inner tartan]

They should change that about stalker tree splatter and trickster what put what ever up need to increased

[potent pivot]

you'd only need 1 ambush here

[pallid onyx]

okay

yes i tested

i only need one

[chrome schooner]

use garrote before the ambush if your goal is max damage as quickly as possible

in your spell sequence that you just said

[pallid onyx]

yes

so cheap garrote ambush

[potent pivot]

mhm

[pallid onyx]

rupture shiv

deathmark

I can use re-cheapshot if it's available

let me try

i can okay

for more cc

[potent pivot]

have you read through your talents n stuff?

like all the bleed interactions

[pallid onyx]

yeah i know mutiliate has bleed

i know serrated bone spike

i know for every enemy i have rupture on i get agi

[potent pivot]

that's a pretty big one

you've also got this on the Deathstalker tree

[pallid onyx]

hmmm

and i

know that my first rupture should

go to everyone

spread

[potent pivot]

garrote and rupture yeah

if they're in range of it

[pallid onyx]

yesd

rupture has double bleed

[potent pivot]

you've also got 12 seconds of that

[pallid onyx]

or kidney

internal bleeding

[potent pivot]

ye

[pallid onyx]

so i can do this

to benefit from muti bleed too

[potent pivot]

LD is also a nice one

[potent pivot]

the mutilate bleed is mostly unimportant

[pallid onyx]

i can cheap garrote ambush rupture muti shiv deathmark

is that so

[potent pivot]

like you don't need to worry about keeping it up

[pallid onyx]

okay

it's irrelevant then

a small gimmick

[potent pivot]

yeh just some added passive dmg

[pallid onyx]

okay

i will go smoke a cigarette

think about this all and queue

let's see if i can do any difference

break the fucking tie-loss streak

so let me summarize one more time

you don't use +7 points for finishers, +5 is enough
only time you maximum use envenom, and this is if you have darkest night
for damage on opener I can cheap, garrote, ambush, rupture, shiv, deathmark, cheap again if needed

fan of knives has same damage and creates more combo points if hit 2 player targets, if pets it doesn't but still nice if using on low energy somehow

keep garrote and rupture on multiple targets if possible

[inner tartan]

Same for all dot classes normal I dot everything up

[pallid onyx]

keep crimson tempest on every target +2

[potent pivot]

something else to note just in case

[pallid onyx]

with 5 cp do not waste it on 2 cp

okay

[pallid onyx]

so before crimson i can use shi v

cool

i don't use kingsbane

should I

haven't seen people run it

[inner tartan]

It hit and miss

[potent pivot]

personally i prefer it, but i play a build that most people don't play

[pallid onyx]

haven't played it once really

[inner tartan]

Sin seem very relaxed in what builds they play I have seen king bane and mine king bane and coin and non coin do good ( and bad )

[potent pivot]

if you're just going for 1800, prolly just stick to the easier build really imo

[pallid onyx]

yeah just 1800 for this season

defo more next

[potent pivot]

the base bleed build most people play is a bit easier

most likely what you're already playing

[pallid onyx]

this is what I run

[potent pivot]

yeh

[pallid onyx]

cool brb

i will let you know if results are changing

ty 4 your time guys

really

[potent pivot]

you got this

[pallid onyx]

i really really really appreciate it

you have no idea

[inner tartan]

Good luck get dat elite set

If ur solo shuffle Que pops that is

[mystic pasture]

This is the build i am playing (BGs, and like to take any 1v1 I can)

My opener is something like:
Cheap > Garrotte > Ambush > Rupture > Cheap > Mut to 5 > Env > repeat

With burst added on the above: Deathmark > Shiv (+tea) > Kingsbane > (refresh dots, mut/env until 7 seconds left on KB) > Shiv (+tea) again

thoughts?

[potent pivot]

[potent pivot]

i would drop FC for CT or something

oh you're running TTK

[mystic pasture]

I was playing with getting twist the knife for more KB burst

not sure if it is worth it though, was just trying last night with it.

I had Lethal Dose before

[potent pivot]

LD is pretty big

i would probably stick with LD and SBS

[mystic pasture]

ok, maybe I will go back to that. KB can be hit and miss

What can I give up to get SBS though? Seems like I would have to lose KB

[potent pivot]

sec

[mystic pasture]

Given where it is on the tree

[potent pivot]

yeah

[mystic pasture]

I would rather have KB, it seems to do more overall damage and more burst

[mystic pasture]

But I do have to dedicate a lot to getting that. So there is an opertunity cost to using it.

[potent pivot]

if going for pure ST i'd probably use that

maybe even DTB

[mystic pasture]

Never tried amp poison

[potent pivot]

without DTB you lose wound for it

but the supercharged envenoms hit pretty hard with amp

[mystic pasture]

Feels like I would need to give up too much for DTB

so many juicy talents on that bottom row

[mystic pasture]

maybe i could use hemotoxin and not worry about wound then...

[potent pivot]

you'd basically just do this

you're not losing too much dropping Scent for pure ST. dropping the 10% bleed damage from Sudden Demise kinda hurts, but if you're going for ST burst DTB isn't a bad option

[mystic pasture]

I will try it. Though SD is my favourite talent in the game i think. All those sweet, sweet KBs... And seeing people just insta-flop when they get to 800K HP.

[potent pivot]

i like smacking people with KB etc in Zoldyck's range

[mystic pasture]

I am addicted to that DGKillSHot addon

Killing Spree! GODLIKE! WICKED SICK!!!!!

[pallid onyx]

DUDE @potent pivot

[potent pivot]

we have unleashed a demon

[pallid onyx]

WHAT

round2

bro

im cooking

Trickz send me your

server and char name

i need to gift u something small

for this

[potent pivot]

dw about it, just go out there and win

[pallid onyx]

YO

ahashahahadhasdfhasdhsadhgasedf

[potent pivot]

[pallid onyx]

okay it's actually

actually time to cook now

6-0 +72 rating

ggs

my overall peaked i never seen 300m before even with multi cleave lobbies

[potent pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/let-him-cook-lethimcook-lethimcookcoin-let-him-cook-coin-cook-solana-gif-17093117813229067052

crazy fast turn around

[pallid onyx]

i tied like

15 games

streak

swear to god XD

crazy diff

[mystic pasture]

GO TEAM!

[inner tartan]

Yell at the outlaw please

Bad bad rogue

[digital rock]

if i shiv with blade flurry up

does that slow everyone

[pallid onyx]

you can try this on

the dummies

if they get triple shivved then yes

[hidden dome]

If you ever want to know bad the average pvp player is

just play a few rounds of Blitz

You can spin a base every 30 seconds and your team still loses by zerging dead bases at 2.3 or 2.4 mmr

absolute clowns

everyone with a negative winrate should just be locked out of the character. Level and gear a new character. Learn the game before you lose me my games. Tyvm

[pallid onyx]

hard take

no one will play the game

and my hot take is if you are playing bgb you shouldn't care really

[hidden dome]

I rather take an hour queue time

than 30% winrate rating assassins

[pallid onyx]

blitz bg is sugarcoated random bg

[hidden dome]

I'm playing Blitz for my elite gear on my alts

[pallid onyx]

believe me you are better off ss

[hidden dome]

and those absolute clowns are turning a daily grind into a weekly grind

[pallid onyx]

it will

you are depending on 10 people instead of 2 XD

everyone will turbo clown

[hidden dome]

because I actually enjoy Blitz gameplay more than whatever crap current season SS is

I don't enjoy "playing the aoe rotation and throwing a stun here and there" very much

[pallid onyx]

my actual advice would be

just play for fun and don't care about bgb

you will always get cancer

[hidden dome]

with blitz you get to experience actual class strengths in utility

[pallid onyx]

even in 30000 rating

[hidden dome]

Yeah I notice in 2.8 lobbies on my rogue. Blitz is inflated to a degree where MMV is worthless

hell my 1.8 warrior has over 2.8 MMV

[pallid onyx]

nature of bg's

[hidden dome]

But I just need one win to never play my dk again

get my elite set

and move on to a class I actually enjoy

but I have gotten 4 absolutely bad teams in a row

I don't expect them to play good. I just expect them to not zerg

To play better than actual random bg players

at 2.3 MMV

[inner tartan]

For biltz I don’t know if my friend are weird but a lot of them log on mutiable characters and do the first win of a day I help them by doing healer dps ques are much faster and I think both of the toon I did it on I won like up 1700 and only lost 2 or 3

But I found out u kinda got to boss ir team around

[hidden dome]

5 losses in a row

I can't boss my team around

I already got a warning from Blizz for too many reports

I'm not risking a ban. I'm not writing anything in chat anymore

I'm as silent as I can be. I write a "gg wp" and a "gl next" when we win

[worthy crag]

maybe you should zerg with them

thats the dk way

[inner tartan]

I did 2 haha

But from pve

I should solo queue some ima rogue worst case I can just spectate I got my shit just having fun and if I Que solo I don’t need to do objective

But find healer friends to get faster ques

[hidden dome]

DKs don't actually win zergs. They just oom heals

eventually

[inner tartan]

That the point

Isn’t it

[hidden dome]

With my warrior I would just kill heals

[inner tartan]

I was running demo in 2s yesterday and now I hate fury

[hidden dome]

I was playing arms

hate fury too

[inner tartan]

Xddd fair

[hidden dome]

not that arms isn't op in blitz too

[inner tartan]

I haven’t touch war in a while

[hidden dome]

I played 20 wins to 7 losses with my warri. It was fun

most fun elite set I got

[inner tartan]

I need to cuz I might start Prot tanking pve

My only elite set on war is s3 df but that also the only season I played it

Is this one good I thought it was kinda eh

If it is time to play furry fury

[hidden dome]

I'm just getting the 1.8 BG sets on every classic class this season

Warri alliance set looks awesome

horde too

better than the elite set

[inner tartan]

Oo I don’t like it thou

I have it on rogue but like I can maybe see t3 be useing it almost cool I just don’t like it so don’t use but the bg 1800 sets is kinda yucky

Ur mind u my PvP mains are vulpera goblins and gnome

But not ur

[hidden dome]

6 losses in a row

me and a friend draw 5 guys to a base and my team loses 2 out of the other 4 bases with a 6 vs 3...

[hidden dome]

7th loss in a row

Would've been an easy win if people listen to me once the game

but guess not

Oh I played against a 30x rank 1 druid

nice

against all odds

[potent pivot]

[hidden dome]

What I need to beat to get 1.8

Or at least what Blizzard expects me to beat

[severe helm]

Lol who was it?

There's not that many players with that many achieves

Looks like flop

Or kubzy?

[hidden dome]

https://check-pvp.fr/eu/Outland/Arenaone

Had the bad luck of getting farmed by him/her

[potent pivot]

Swapxy

[stiff cedar]

looked at "arenaone" its swapxy

[potent pivot]

[stiff cedar]

lmao

[severe helm]

Aaaah eu

[hidden dome]

I want the record to reflect that Blizzard puts me against actual top 10 players when I'm already on a 6 game losing streak

[severe helm]

Blizzard just re used the mmr code from 3s and it completely fails to place people properly in blitz

[hidden dome]

Feels like it yeah

Blitz rating is strange. I was losing 8 rating each loss. Then won 2 out of 3 when playing with a friend at 2.4 rating. Then went 7 losses without dropping any rating

Similar I had players with 6 games total and honor level less than 10 when playing 2.7 lobbies on my rogue

Well, anyway. just 5 more chars to get all elite sets. Destro Lock next

[waxen meteor]

High Five!

I don't miss the 5v5 though!

[normal zealot]

when does this pvp season end and we get rewards?

[mystic pasture]

Just before next patch lands

[normal zealot]

So when we go to 12.x.x right?

Or after the next 11.x patch?

[inner tartan]

frost mages and stupid kite comps are making my rating bounce like yoyo but second in damage as healer feels good

[severe helm]

11.1 is the next patch

we dont have a start date yet

[inner tartan]

that when we get some sweet pirate sets

or higherlander

[normal zealot]

oh okay, tyvm

[gusty hedge]

making me want to play my mw soon as my main account suspension is up

[gleaming sentinel]

idk, starting to think im too slow and old for outlaw. Watched Dazed' vods, im just not pressing my abiliies fast enough

[inner tartan]

I should it sooo funny

U

[gusty hedge]

3 weeks togo

[gusty hedge]

youll get the hang of it
i used to just practice on training dummy for hours and duel until i locked down a few rotations.
Vigor build if just starting out imo to get the feel of it. supercharged for fine tuning once you know what you're doing( quite energy starved , unforgiving if you mess up rotation)

[gleaming sentinel]

yea i definitely press shiny buttons vs spend too often

and my grapple accuracy is abysmal

[gusty hedge]

@gleaming sentinel i clipped this cuz its really helpful mew had some goo insight on law most people dnt realize

[indigo hill]

That post is the closest thing we have to an Outlaw guide. Protect it at all cost.

[pallid onyx]

Self note: check out if ever play outlaw

[severe helm]

Haha all those details are in the #outlaw-faq

Which is a pve guide but a lot of the info is pvp relevant too

I think outlaw is one of the few specs that rotationally follows very similar rules to pve

[bleak dagger]

Outlaw still giving me trouble after over a month of only playing it to really lock in the muscle memory, swap over to BM that I haven’t touched I a while and it’s like night and day ease of use and results. Outlaw is extremely rewarding gameplay but I can’t fault people for wanting to play something that doesn’t require a 200 iq unless you’re playing lock/rogue/priest

[inner tartan]

I don’t like super charge playstyle and used to like that talent but now I lowkey hate it

[gray dune]

is it easier to grind later in the season?

[safe pelican]

In a general sense yes

[gray dune]

i stopped a few months ago on my 3 toons i was using in pvp is why. I just wanna get the weapon illusion honestly, highest i got atm is my healer and rogue at 1545

across all but 2s

[inner tartan]

What cr is illusion at

[hidden dome]

1950

[indigo hill]

Why is it when a bg doesn't go as people want that it's instantly the rogues fault? Are we supposed to carry all of the others?

OMG you didn't kill the efc and def the fc at the same time? 🤡

[digital rock]

any high rated blitzers in the chat

im struggling to deal with taking bases from hunters. every other class is pretty easy but they just fuck me up

the duels seem like a coinflip and htere doesnt appear to eb a reliable cc cap strategy

talking maybe 2400-2500 mmr

[pallid onyx]

no high rated blitzer but taking cap from hunter should... be difficult

[severe helm]

That's why ret is one of the most popular specs haha

[severe helm]

As what spec

You have to just kill the hunter imo

As sub you can try to find their pet in stealth and sap it then bomb cap flag

[digital rock]

outlaw

[severe helm]

Oh yeah no chance

I don't take those fights as outlaw

You have other shit to do

[digital rock]

it definitely feels like i have no chance XD but my team keeps telling me to hit bases and they dont understand when i say i cannot take that shit from a BM

[severe helm]

You can win the 1v1

But

[digital rock]

by the time i do the base isnt cappable

[severe helm]

Hunter's with all their defensives up are insanely hard to kill

[digital rock]

and then by the time its cappable the hunters back

[severe helm]

And yes

Gotta rotate before

as outlaw you really dont want to try to steal bases from people

you need to get there before theyve capped their base

on node maps my main role as outlaw is to always be there when bases are turning over

and try to be at the base that your team cant get to in time

so on ab thats often me pushing stables/farm if my team isnt there

and sometimes if im outnumbered its just trying to spin for as long as possible against their team

you can beat the hunter more easily in the 1v1 if he doesnt have the base yet

cuz you can force his cds/trinket/positioning by trying to get the cap

also getting your fast cap down will help you on AB

should be able to get mines/LM for free at the start depending on the enemy specs

[pallid onyx]

probably

people have never seen a true hunter vs outlaw before

or they have seen an outlaw take bases from the shittiest hunt in the galaxy

and now they think that it's your job

this is pretty common tbh

[digital rock]

does it matter what side youre on for this

like if im alliance i fast cap mines or so on

[severe helm]

no its the same on AB

Mines feels easier to get to early

but lately people are ready for it

specs to lookout for are MM/War/DH/Monk

they can stop your cap

[digital rock]

yeah my last game i tried for mines they were definitely on it

[severe helm]

Gilneas is free af though esp on alliance side

thats a guaranteed