pvp

[severe helm]

GSW seems like it might be better too since it has more value in your actual burst window cuz youd have a reason to bank up PS procs for crackshot

[sour coral]

outlaw is super fun. Ill fully admit Killing spree? pure dopamine

https://tenor.com/view/delicious-tasty-gif-22731288

[vocal surge]

It'd be cool if Blizzard buffed GSW to 300% damage from 200% damage

So it's exactly like it's SL counterpart

[potent pivot]

I want Blunderbuss, Dreadblades and Flag back

[vocal surge]

If they're gonna add Dreadblades back, they need to add a counter mechanic to the HP tax like there was on the Artifact Tree

That HP tax too heavy for both PvP and PvE

[radiant glen]

bring back bte stun

and finisher roll the bones

[outer sky]

@jaunty osprey You around?

[zealous sand]

So what is the difference between Tea build and FI build?

For solo shuffle outlaw?

[potent pivot]

FI build basically presses rtb on CD

[zealous sand]

Kk still both build runs high vers>crit>haste?

[potent pivot]

!stats

[lethal roost]

These are the recommended stat priorities for each spec in PvP. Please keep in mind that having suboptimal stats on some pieces such as tier set pieces is not the end of the world.

Subtlety: Vers>Mastery>Crit>Haste
Assassination: Vers>Mastery>Crit=/=Haste
Outlaw: Vers>Haste=/=Crit>Mastery
You likely want to stack at least 20% Haste on Outlaw for an extra GCD during ADR/Crackshot windows. Take 'em by Surprise gives you 10% during CS windows, so you only need 10-15% from gear.

[potent pivot]

Ye

[zealous sand]

Cheers!

[outer sky]

Somehow I just went 3-3 in a triple pally lobby without a purge

as assa

they have to be so bad to let that happen

that should be a 0-6

maybe 1-5 if someone trolls

but 3-3 wtf lol

[wraith tangle]

Guys, any tips how to maximize Envenom crits with Deathstalker? I was able to do between 2,5m to 3m crits on players max (with death from above, tea, supercharger, shiv buff and darkness night), but I saw people doing above 4m.

thx

[potent pivot]

nope, that's it

you're not gonna see anyone hit 4m on a player, even a player with zero vers

[wraith tangle]

Man, I saw rogue in live stream hit Jazzgz (top warlock) for 4m, so I guess it is possible

[potent pivot]

i'm pretty doubtful of this

the max i've seen is just over 3m and that was in execute, buffed by zoldyck

unless you saw that from over 2 weeks ago when 11.0.5 first went live. something was double dipping and got changed since then

[wraith tangle]

He showed us dmg meter, went from 50% to 0 in one global. Enveom for 4m. It was last week I think

[potent pivot]

sounds like the details was bugged or something then

there's nothing else that can buff envenom other than what you listed and zoldyck's

[wraith tangle]

Maybe, next round he was hitting for 2,5m. Thx for answer though.

[potent pivot]

[wanton breach]

did you see if the rogue was amplifying poison and twist the knife by any chance?

lingering darkness is also something to consider (nature damage buff after deathmark ends)

[potent pivot]

lingering wouldn't make you hit that hard compared to just using symbolic

[wanton breach]

and double shiving for 1/2 extra CP on envenom could be a cheesy thing to do too

[potent pivot]

dtb/amp could be a possibility but they don't come up to 4m, last i tested anyway

when 11.0.5 first dropped i was able to hit a max of 4.8m on players, but after they broke and fixed supercharger for sub/outlaw it hasn't even come close to 4m

[wanton breach]

just hit a 5.7M DfA on the pvp targeting dummy

[potent pivot]

ye you can hit even higher than that on dummies

damage on players is way different

[wanton breach]

yeah, gotta test in a duel

[potent pivot]

in arena is the best way

certain things only change on instance flag

[wanton breach]

is there a way to 1v1 wargame?

[potent pivot]

not sure

i think you need 2 parties

[lost sable]

so as i gathered for outlul (supercharger build):
rtb on cd, so it also really doesnt matter which buffs you have and their prio right?
also is killing spree a higher prio than bte even during crackshot? i tought to just spam bte's

[potent pivot]

bte is higher prio during crackshot

[jaunty osprey]

Hi

[tender ember]

just curious, are u guys getting any results with outlaw in compare to other specs this ssn and df3/df4 in 3s? kinda feels like 80% of ppl play outlaw here which is the hardest spec to be succesfull in xd

[candid tide]

ime every class kinda feel almost impossible when starting out, some more than others

but there comes a point when ull break through if u dont give up

[tender ember]

dont think like all of those are starting out and never touched it before

[candid tide]

mb i didnt read it through

[languid ravine]

Tank DH wins 3 rounds against a 1-5 Fire mage in my lobby

now its time to uninstall for real

cya it was a great 20 years

[vocal surge]

F

[vocal surge]

If it makes you feel better

I had a skirm where my frost mage casted Polymorph

Warrior used his spell reflect on it

and Polymorph got reflected onto me

[languid ravine]

but how lol

[vocal surge]

Idk

That was a sign to stop PvPing for the rest of the night

to me lol

If your wondering the comp

My Team: Frost Mage, Me Outlaw, Disc Priest
Enemy Team: Aff Warlock*, Arms Warrior, Mistweaver Monk

We lost the game (Hint: Frost Mage did really really really low damage and I mean no damage)

[stoic spruce]

Ye

[languid ravine]

well that doesnt mean he was playing bad, shadow in my lobby went 5-1 with 300k dps

[stoic spruce]

Actually I'm getting more wins

(I'm playing more)

[vocal surge]

Your shadow priest

was doing x5 the frost mage's damage

that was on my team

[proven field]

Outlaw has a very real skill gap period - It really takes time to click before you realize how the pump works, when to kite/CC etc and how to get solid burst numbers. It took me a solid month of horsing around before I "broke through" and am now actually playing to potential. It's definitely a "stick with it" spec.

[candid tide]

it took me 2 months to play sub to 1800

dang that was some hard stuff at the beginning

finger twisting class

[languid ravine]

shouldve gone fury, takes 2 days to 2100

and noone ever flames you for failing because they know I would never understand as a warrior gamer

[molten hedge]

Does outlul want to press vanish off CD like the pve guide says to keep ADR up, or does that depend how much uptime you’re having to reset vanish

[vocal ginkgo]

I had something similar happen to me with feral, was my first time playing it after a while

I want to try outlaw now

I enjoy learning “difficult” or I guess rewarding specs

[proven field]

Same - I am a glutton for punishment. The more niche the win condition is, the more I enjoy it for some dumb reason

[languid ravine]

I m hardstuck on 1700 as DH (2.3 on assa btw)

I guess softstuck but the games are atrocious

[wraith tangle]

Guys, how is assa compared to the outlaw? Last time I played rogue on cata, so you can say I am total newbie. Assa feels very good most of the times, but i want to be as competitive as possible. Thx.

[proven field]

Assa easier to burst for sure and is more forgiving but everything is viable

[safe pelican]

It’s crazy how my multi box assa rogue is playing at 2k+ MMR in blitz and winning but my outlaw rogue is forever banished to the 1600 realm

I was 9-11 on my assa rogue in blitz now I’m 10-15 😂 went down from 2.2k MMR to 1.9k after my last loss we’ll see what happens today the push continues 🦦

[spring bough]

Yeah cause outlaw god tier mode

[safe pelican]

B+ tier at best

[spring bough]

Depends on the eye of the beholder

[tribal badger]

i got 3 clothy lobbies in a row and i felt super strong queuing saturday

then i got a 4 man plate lobby with shaman as the last healer and got reminded what its like to be irrelevant

just throwing cc and peels on me the entire game while they all fight and ignore me

the difference in damage between clothies and plate is actually insane ngl

[stoic spruce]

I did no damage into a ret/hpal comp in 2s the other night

But I had insane evasion and feint uptime so he didn't do a lot of dmg either lmaoo

[steel scarab]

@tribal badger isn't armor normalized in arena? Aka, everyone does the same amount of physical damage to every armor type? I thought they changed that

[tribal badger]

no

that is not a thing

armor is normalized in pve

[steel scarab]

That seems WILDLY BACKWARDS

[tribal badger]

why do u think MM hunters have always been considered mage/clothy killers but countered by plate lobbies

armor causes a fairly substantial difference in damage done vs some spec

[steel scarab]

I mean I thought that's why they normalized armor, to balance that. Lol that they did it for pve and not for pve. Idiotic company, truly

[tribal badger]

well they nerfed the armor of plate last expac in a later season because it was scaling too high or something

to reduce the gap somewhat

but its never been normalized no

and its still quite noticable

[steel scarab]

Cursed

[potent pivot]

are you referring to the very last month of s4?

or something before that

the last month of s4 had fucked armor scaling because of prepatch, since they changed the scaling to be ready for level 80s and we were all still 70

[tribal badger]

before that

they nerfed plate classes armor and some other armor (like boomkin and shaman iirc) in s2 or s3 of df

cant remember

to reduce the damage gap between cloth and plate for some specs

[potent pivot]

Yeah idr that I wasn’t paying a lot of attention to tuning then

I kinda like that the different armor types are actually different in pvp

Don’t see any reason for them to be normalized

[tribal badger]

it just gets kinda silly when a majority of specs dont really care about armor and then specs like law or marks lose substantial amounts of damage to it

but its w/e

it does add some flavor for sure

[severe helm]

yeah but we get the benefit of DESTROYING mages lol

but yeah the armor types only really matter for like a few specs which is why it kinda feels outdated

[molten hedge]

Speaking of mages, probably my favorite thing about outlaw is not being able to get kited easily

[brisk haven]

i never play rouge how look like pvp rotation any links iam lvl 13 any good videos or guides ?

[potent pivot]

check out the pve guides on wowhead while you're leveling so you can learn the basics

[brisk haven]

all done i look for pvp rotaion and i cant find it for low lvl like me 14

[tender ember]

on mid tier pvp like gladiator- assa in shuffle and 3s as rlp is S tier much better than outlaw

on r1 lvl high gladiator, ppl in outlaw performs better

tho if ur like mid tier gladiator and below, assa will be very op and way to go

[proven field]

At 14 you're pretty much just pressing sinister strike into dispatch. Outlaw PVP is pretty slow low-level

[wraith tangle]

Thanks, guess i will start with assa and then will see if I can progress to outlaw.

[severe helm]

yeah the outlaw leveling experience kinda sucks haha

you dont really get access to any of the specs mechanics for a while

[indigo hill]

Always been the problem with outlaw. It's a Benjamin button spec.

[halcyon timber]

Paying for the sins of combat mace stuns heh

[smoky stone]

Hey, i just started to play wow, war within. I was looking for some guides on Sub rouge pvp, and i just found out they just remade sub rouges so very few guides that are up to date with in PVP. Coud someone send me a good one that i can focus on and learn from it?

[potent pivot]

there aren't really any good guides for pvp specifically

as you said, they go out of date or have incorrect info usually etc

try checking out Nahj on yt or twitch n just watch gameplay

[candid tide]

yeah skillcapped is so out of dated often also

cant believe they trick people into buying their sub

[severe helm]

their high level advice is still all very applicable

[candid tide]

well ye the arena master vids are helpful idd

but like class courses a bunch of them are for outdated specs

[severe helm]

yeah blizz has been changing specs a lottt

[candid tide]

true too specs changed fast over the course this season

[smoky stone]

What do you guys think about this one? https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/subtlety-rogue-pvp-talents-and-builds#pvp-talents

[potent pivot]

might be okay for very generalized stuff, but even the build's out of date

i would use murlok.io for builds/gear. and watch actual gameplay from someone like Nahj or another rank 1 playing the spec.

[blissful peak]

Do I need to get good or is it kind of rough playing without thistle like Nahj does?

Feel like I have too many dead globals

Subterfuge feels insanely good but outside of go's I'm doing like nothing due to being energy starved

[potent pivot]

You do nothing outside of goes regardless

[blissful peak]

totally not true

sometimes i refresh my ruptures B)

[potent pivot]

[severe helm]

do you have to pick up the quest for the free pvp weapons somewhere?

or do you just get it after you earn enough conquest?

[pliant mauve]

No

Yeah. Just get 2500

[severe helm]

fasho

[pliant mauve]

I’ve only played Assa and a little Sub for the last two seasons and after getting hard stuck at 2.1 I leveled a WW and wow. It seems so much easier.

But at least I’ve realized how much I suck. So that’s good.

[ocean crypt]

i'm vs frost mage devoker in a lobby, how the f do I stick to any of them

i'm getting kited out of my mind

[potent pivot]

spec?

take shiv to apply stronger slow

use ranged attacks to apply crippling

use mobility well, don't just blow it

[molten hedge]

@ocean crypt that’s probably the hardest lobby for a melee that I’ve come across bc of the constant slows. Outlaws the first melee I’ve been able to stick to them consistently which is nice. DFA can be a good gap closer since you won’t need God Cloak with 2 casters. Try sticking to the closest wizard near ur healer’s pillar so you don’t line him and get put in a bad position. Also it lets you stop cc on your healer

@potent pivot did you whitelist anything for outlaw or do u just have weakauras to track some of the stuff?

[ocean crypt]

yeah between disentegrate and everything the frost mage was doing shit felt impossible lol

[molten hedge]

Sometimes if your healer isn’t the best, you have to play the long game and pillar until stun DR is back. As long as you can get a trinket and cc the healer you and your team can get a kill in smoke bomb

[molten hedge]

@ocean crypt

[ocean crypt]

yeah i'll keep that in mid if I get that nightmare again lol

[molten hedge]

It doesn’t happen often lol but when it does it does suck.

[kind parcel]

guys, I thought my game was bugged until I realised there's a new passive for thistle tea which auto drinks it when you get to 30 energy, is there a way to turn that crap off?

[molten hedge]

No

[kind parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/po-facepalm-gif-27277915

[potent pivot]

Just don’t let yourself fall below 30 energy

ez

[kind parcel]

thx

they might as well give you a 600 energy bar instead of this crap though

how recent is this change, I dont remember it in DF

[potent pivot]

11.0.5

[kind parcel]

and rogue community is ok with it?

what on earth prompted them to add this crap

[potent pivot]

For the most part it’s just a whatever change

It’s not that difficult to play around

[kind parcel]

but there is no reason to play around something if there's no reason for it in the first place

why add one more thing to play around

[potent pivot]

It’s one less thing for casuals to press

It doesn’t significantly impact dps in pve even if you completely ignore it

[kind parcel]

how about they dont press on that talent if they dont want it

or have a choice/toggle for that crap passive

[potent pivot]

What’s done, is done

[kind parcel]

you're awfully compliant for a rogue 😛

[potent pivot]

Nah I just don’t complain about stuff that isn’t a big deal for me

[kind parcel]

no one does, unless its a big deal for them 😛

[potent pivot]

(It shouldn’t really be a big deal to anyone)

[kind parcel]

I find it annoying not to have that thistle tea when I want to blow my cooldowns

well why dont they turn on the ability to macro everything like they had when they released wow

[potent pivot]

What spec are you playing

[kind parcel]

make it easy for everyone

if they wanna make it easier for noobs

[gleaming pawn]

Tea is such a non-issue when playing assa correctly that several of us don’t even play it anymore

[potent pivot]

Spec?

[kind parcel]

assasination

[gleaming pawn]

And Sub only plays it, for the mastery boost

[potent pivot]

Then you’re playing incorrectly anyway

[jolly sierra]

tea is never an issue tbh

unless u are pveing

else u almost never will get energy starved

[potent pivot]

You should be pooling to stay above 50% energy as much as you can unless you absolutely have to build cp for a kidney asap or something

[kind parcel]

why pool above 50%

[halcyon timber]

How its been forever generally.

[potent pivot]

Sanguine blades. Very strong talent

[kind parcel]

it does about 10% of my damage currently (im level 70) what should it be at as a % of total

[potent pivot]

Percentages vary from match to match

[kind parcel]

give me a rough idea so ill know if im doing it wrong

because that 10% value is me not pooling

so if its same as pooling then its not gonna be a thing

have you tested vs dummy?

or maybe there's another reason to pool or is that it?

apart from saving enough energy like u said incase you want to stun someone

[potent pivot]

This has been a thing for a long time now

Tested by tons of people

[kind parcel]

hmm

thx

[gleaming pawn]

You also need to get to 80, being level 70 is going to be wonky for all sorts of things

[kind parcel]

ok will do

yeah its definitely not worth it at 70

im getting same or worse dps by pooling

the only reason I see for it being useful is while ur being kited right now

you dot someone and they run away and ur energy stays above 50%

so this keeps it getting used as ur being kited

but yes must be different at 80

otherwise u guys wouldnt say this

[gleaming pawn]

You aren’t actually playing the game until you’re level 80. Stop focusing on how things work at not max level, and focus on getting to max as soon as you can

[kind parcel]

i am, but in between waiting for timewalking dungeons to level up im testing on dummy

by the way when blowing cooldowns

is it Deathmark, Shiv, Kingsbane, Shiv in last 6 seconds of kingsbane again, then shiv kingsbane shiv until Deathmark resets?

[molten hedge]

Any useful outlaw macros? I have a cancelaura for blade flurry. Kinda wanna have a separate ghostly strike macro. Idk if anyone has some good ones

[severe helm]

/cast @cursor Grappling Hook

[severe helm]

just put GS on its own button tbh

sorry fixed that macro

not mouseover its cursor

[molten hedge]

Got that one as well. Why not like bind it to BTE

[severe helm]

cuz you dotn want to use it every time you bte

[molten hedge]

GS

[severe helm]

it costs a lot of energy and its a waste if you use it just before your burst for no reason

[molten hedge]

Is it not good to use before a crackshot window

[severe helm]

it is but you dont only bte during crackshot necessarily

[molten hedge]

Or better to send with KS or something

[severe helm]

theres just not any outlaw buttons that only have one specific use scenario

so if you macro it to anything

it will inevitably be used when you dont want it to sometimers

[jaunty osprey]

sup cuties

[outer sky]

@jaunty osprey hey man

I wanted to ask you

why are you playing Kingsbane lol

do you know something we dont

[jaunty osprey]

cause

sbs passive damage

isnt worth it

kingsbane i can hit for

700k crit - 450k noncrit

into a 2.5m envenom

and the dot of kingsbane

on my goes

ticks for 500k-600k

[kind parcel]

Is sub still the king of 1v1 or is assassination as good?

Against other good 1v1 specs that is

[outer sky]

but sbs also buffs all your other bleeds and gives you a lot of combo points

You're also playing cold blood which I assume you macro to kingsbane

[jaunty osprey]

where does sbs buff your bleedds

im not playing cold blood

i used to, but i played forced induction

[outer sky]

when I looked you up on murlok it showed you playing Lethality/cold blood

and that was like

yesterday

maybe didnt update

[jaunty osprey]

hmm

weird

i played lethality/cold blood like

start of season and up till

echoing rep was removed

but afterwards, i played forced induction only

i just dueled myself

and hit a 850k+ kingsbane

crit

without lethality

that's why i play it

[outer sky]

but it usually won't crit

[jaunty osprey]

okay but noncrit

is still a good amount

[outer sky]

you play depths enchant too

[jaunty osprey]

noncrit

561k

what's wrong with depths?

[outer sky]

Nothing I'm just iffy on it

I play it as outlaw

[jaunty osprey]

u can play radiant power

it doesnt matter

[outer sky]

I'm not convinced its better than radiant for assa

[jaunty osprey]

for me

depths does

a good amount

to my kill target

every game

[outer sky]

I swap targets too much to get a lot of value out of depths

since its a stacking debuff

[jaunty osprey]

that's fair

both enchants are good!

i should be playing radiant power since i play

an envenom build

[outer sky]

yeah if you get a proc itll gas up your envenom

does your gameplay change much between the envenom build and the bleed build?

[jaunty osprey]

no

your entire

sin tree is the same

just the rogue tree is different

sbs literally ticks for 25k noncrit man

LOL

this shit is ass

ticks every 3 seconds

so 20 ticks per min

that is a MIN of 500k

on 1 target, 1 mill on 2 targets

of 3 targets (healer) that means you can never gouge the healer

my kingsbane for sure does more than that per cast

in terms of initial hit and then the dot

[outer sky]

Mine tick for a bit more than that

[outer sky]

it did 18m damage in that last SS I did

thats almost 3 health bars worth of damage

[jaunty osprey]

4%

[outer sky]

plus the 2% extra bleed dam

[jaunty osprey]

of ur damage

did any of it

hit pets

[outer sky]

let me see

About 500k was to pets

[jaunty osprey]

that's what i assume the 60k noncrit tick is

ya

i still think that's very low

let me see if i have any old details on any rogues

i havent queued in a week cause it's been so dead at higher ratings

[outer sky]

it also did 5.6m damage in terms of buffing my bleeds

so call it 23.5m

plus combo points

[jaunty osprey]

idk

i see arena

a bit differently

than some people

[outer sky]

youre thinking about setting up a kill window not just raw dps

[jaunty osprey]

i feel like it's more important to have

damage for goes

yeah

[outer sky]

my thing is

[jaunty osprey]

neither are wrong

[outer sky]

ive tried it

and i rarely felt like I got a kill

because of KB

[jaunty osprey]

i've posted

screenshots in here

of a big envenom

i mean

big KB

into big envenom

let me see if i can find

[outer sky]

both my rogues are over 2400 in SS which I know is meme bracket to you but still

I've tested so much shit

I want KB to be good so bad lol

but I just cant make it be good

[jaunty osprey]

if u see

that was a kingsbane

DOT

for 518k

which i think is insane

every kingsbane i press

it hits for 500k-900k

initial hit

and then the dot is

300k-600k

pairing with a 2m envenom on my go

is insane

that's almost 50% of a healthbar

[outer sky]

but kingsbane doesn't buff envenom right?

so how do you get a 2m envenom

forced induction?

[jaunty osprey]

yes

i'd still play with with deeper strat and tea though

but envenom buffs kingsbane

as the more poisons you apply

the harder it ticks

[outer sky]

i have to wonder

is that extra combo point from forced induction worth losing tea over

because tea is 13.6% envenom damage

and energy

and it buffs your bleeds n shit too

you could just Tea your big envenom

and it would do the same as forced induction or more

plus give you energy

and it lasts for 6 seconds

[jaunty osprey]

it probably isnt

but i like

seeing

2.5m envenom

[outer sky]

you still would

[jaunty osprey]

it would

no

the extra CP that forced induction gives

is more damage than tea

it's a bit less

it's very similar

but slightly less

tea is overall a net gain

cause it buffs bleeds

you're not wrong

[outer sky]

so on my rogue every additional combo point towards an envenom adds 65,390 damage

[jaunty osprey]

but it is less envenom damage

tea

no tea

but

that's also assuming

u have tea for every super charged envenom

which u dont

[outer sky]

yeah thats true

but tea also has other benefits

[jaunty osprey]

i just dont see the game as a details game

i dont think it's important to look at details

especially at higher ratings

if the game was won on details

outlaw rogue wouldnt be the best performing rogue spec in EU and NA for shuffle

whatever gets you the kill is what's important

being able to kill someone that's at 3M hp, instantly, wins games

[outer sky]

Envenom is just so slow though

I dont press it that much really

This was my damage breakdown from the last SS I did

[jaunty osprey]

well

[outer sky]

thats my envenom damage

thats 2 envenoms per game

and those were long games

[jaunty osprey]

envenom is always #2-3 for me

in details

[outer sky]

and I went 5-1

[severe helm]

You aren't always facing a comp you can aoe into though

[jaunty osprey]

in all of these, i played it

[outer sky]

oh believe me, I know. But ivan said his gameplay doesnt change between the 2 builds

[jaunty osprey]

it doesnt

[severe helm]

I mean

[jaunty osprey]

i multi dot cause i need scent of blood

like

the entire right tree

is the same

[severe helm]

Gameplay changes more based on their comp

[jaunty osprey]

and the standard build

maybe you just have

dead globals

[severe helm]

And how they're positioning

[outer sky]

i tried an envenom build that @potent pivot suggested a while back and it actually felt worse than the bleed build into caster cleaves because not being able to connect felt that much worse

[jaunty osprey]

and are refreshing bleeds

too early

well

i play DFA every game

0 issues connecting

https://www.twitch.tv/saul/clip/PricklyPerfectMouseTheRinger-gDIEEgrCnRByDtaM

it's a play style thing, i could just be better

at using this spec

[outer sky]

Lol you got lucky there and you know it

its happened to me too

[jaunty osprey]

uhhh

i can

show u

a lot more clips

[outer sky]

DFA something crazy

[jaunty osprey]

if u want

i DFA coils and lasso and everything

[outer sky]

You can reliably DFA kiting mechanics?

[jaunty osprey]

every game

yes

vs stormbolts, coils, lasso, etc

when u know

someone is gonna press something

u just press it

[outer sky]

whats the timing like on that

[tender ember]

nice wall on 2,6mmr

[outer sky]

cuz if you press it before they press you won't follow them and if you press it after then youll be out of range

[jaunty osprey]

well

you're up in the air for like

2 seconds

so u can press early

it's like 1.5-2 seconds

makes u completely CC immune

[outer sky]

and they dont think "this guy is up in the air right now maybe I should wait a second to port"?

[jaunty osprey]

if everyone played like robots

every game would be decided on the solo shuffle timer

at the top of the screen

u have to stop looking at the game

so black and white

more dam on details doesnt equate to better

and

a lot of other things

[outer sky]

true otherwise sub rogue would never be playable

[jaunty osprey]

exactly

the way i play sin is almost like

sub rogue burst

but rotting evryone too

also

name 1 talent better vs casters

than DFA

we're taking smoke bomb

and hemo

already

[tender ember]

tricks

[jaunty osprey]

nope

blackjack

is insane

30% reduced healing and damage

on your opener, enemy healer has 30% reduced healing ontop of your wound poison

[tender ember]

used once in openr so op xd

[jaunty osprey]

and

on blind

[outer sky]

my issue with kingsbane isnt that its less damage on details. it's because in my experience it doesn't provide enough burst damage to justify doing less overall

again in my experience

[outer sky]

you ever play the AoE blind talent with Blackjack in RBG Teamfights? It's fucking hilarious

[jaunty osprey]

noo havent queued bgb since week 1

[outer sky]

if theyre not all spread out enough they just fall over

their whole team doing 30% less damage and healing

while yours has lust

[jaunty osprey]

ya

baboon is underestimating blackjack

lol

regardless, not many better talents to take vs casters

DFA is literally a free meld (not stealth part)

[outer sky]

I like Tricks too ngl

[jaunty osprey]

see a warlock casting shadowfury and u dont have kick? dfa

[outer sky]

Especially now that kidney is 30s CD

[tender ember]

ye i pref like all eu top rogues tricks to boost affli lock xdd

[outer sky]

so your teammate gets 15% damage every kidney

[tender ember]

instead of once per 30sec jump

[outer sky]

i literally macro tricks to kidney

[jaunty osprey]

i know for a fact

in shuffle

the top eu rogues play blackjack

lmao

so that's cap

[outer sky]

on Murlok DFA doesnt seem very often chosen

[jaunty osprey]

yeah dfa isnt, it synergizes with forced induction

but

saying that blackjack is bad

is inherently wrong

[tender ember]

not saying black jack is bad

playing it mostly also

tho if its game vs 2 casters like demo frost

which is mostly 4-5 mins game

[jaunty osprey]

u bet ur ass im playing DFA

if it's demo frost

but if u want to watch a game vs double casters

where i use DFA

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2301205634?t=03h57m24s

triple caster

actually

[tender ember]

u can ofc, u eeven can play supercharged points in us xd

[severe helm]

Dfa has such a short range sadly

15 yards

Kinda pitiful

But the cc immunity can be really nice

[jaunty osprey]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2301205634?t=04h12m01s @outer sky

dfa lasso for example

when im stacked on him

[molten hedge]

@jaunty osprey when u say u play assa like sub do u mean u bleed everyone then kinda afk

[outer sky]

I think he means he bleeds everyone and then tunnels someone with envenoms

[outer sky]

"There's no way I'm stacking on anyone"

Man

kinda fucked when our cleave is so good that it's actually better to just let a destro lock spam chaos bolts on you than risk stacking for a few seconds lol

[jaunty osprey]

LOL

i wish

the first few rounds

werent muted

it was actually rly good commentary

[outer sky]

Ivan

What do you even do in a game like that

when you get 40 yard triangled

I feel so helpless

That's probably my biggest challenge

[jaunty osprey]

not gonna lie

supercharge rupture helps a lot

but honestly

just gotta gas pedal

and then line of sight to get a restealth then gas pedal again

also

you should definitely be playing hemotoxin

just looked up ur chars

it helps rot others down

when you arent spamming fan of knives

[outer sky]

I often do play it but I think in the last matches I played before logging out on my rogues they were against either a BM hunter, UDK, or Demo Lock

I dont like hemo into those classes because the shiv cleave MS gets wasted on the pets

But I could be wrong

So you lock in smokebomb and hemo

?

[jaunty osprey]

yeah

[outer sky]

so what would you do vs another assa rogue or vs feral/MM or warrior/WW?

[jaunty osprey]

also

[outer sky]

Where youd want veil and disarm

[jaunty osprey]

maneuv is kinda meh

uhh vs another assa rogue

i just run cloak

or feral cloak

vs ARMS, i stick to dfa cause they do 0 dam

vs WW, cloak

vs fury, disarm

vs mm, dfa cause mm is awful

[outer sky]

i feel like

WWs never karma me

becasue they know better

[jaunty osprey]

well

i try to kill them in a bomb

and they're kinda forced to trinket karma u

[outer sky]

they always trinket port

[safe pelican]

Blackjack is op

Chiming in late but that shit is great

[molten hedge]

They bout to not need karma to one shot lmao the getting biggg buffies

[sour coral]

what is the trickster outlaw build, anyone have a link?

https://tenor.com/view/arrested-development-david-cross-tobias-funke-there-are-dozens-of-us-dozens-gif-5426075

[safe pelican]

Time for some late night bgb queues

Assa Rougie, Outlaw rogue in timeout

[outer sky]

Are you high rated as outlaw?

[safe pelican]

no wtf 😂 im hard stuck 1500 mmr on outlaw but im playing at 2k mmr on assa alt pushing this

[molten hedge]

Take Your Cut is mandatory this ssn holy shit

I watched an old guide and wasn’t thinking and dropped it and the past 4 shuffles thinking I’ve been getting cursed or something from a lock bc I have no energy lmaooo

Doing no dam

[severe helm]

Yeaaaah

I didn't know it wasn't baseline

[molten hedge]

I swear without that talent it would be unplayable lmfaooo

With the 10% haste everyone recommends

Idk how much stuff goes up ssn to ssn but I assume by season 2 or 3 it won’t be as mandatory

[severe helm]

wait what does take your cutt do

oooooh the haste on rtb

I mean

its kinda shit tbh

it puts you way over cap on haste

but it does feel nice if youre playing supercharger

though youre kinda forced to drop it into certain matchups like when you need disarm and cloak for bleeds

[safe pelican]

Just drew 3 capture the flags in a row

wtf

[indigo hill]

Great for outlaw

[molten hedge]

Nah bro I stg it’s unplayable without it my damage was shit when I didn’t take it

There’s a reason 49 out of 50 top rogues are playing it.

Referencing Murlok

Rly only need disarm into sub rogue mostly. Its nice into warr fdk and mm but not a necessity idt

[severe helm]

10% haste doesnt give you much damage

if it did we would stack haste as our secondary haha

its 10% haste every 20ish seconds its really not that big

and if youre spamming rtb on cd youre kinda just deleting all your cto procs

which will hurt your damage more than 10% haste could ever recover haha

[vocal surge]

It's 10% haste + 10% of your haste%

40% haste--> 54% haste from Take Your Cut

[outer sky]

youre supposed to use RTB on CD with the new supercharger build most people are playing and that haste helps because it doesnt have vigor

[severe helm]

its generally not worth it to rtb if it will make you lose buff count

unless youre about to vanish

I think if youre going to do that you should drop cto for GSW

cuz youre getting almost no value out of cto by rolling that often

and prob should drop loaded dice for sleight of hand

if you think about it 1 rtb is 6 cps but 1 PS with Broadside up is also 6 cps same with an ambush that procs

and those other buttons actually do damage

rtb is really only worth pressing on cd if you wont lose any good buffs

so like grand melee + buried treasure

[outer sky]

wouldnt dropping loaded dice for combat stam make more sense?

oh you cant rip

[wraith tangle]

Guys, do you know some good assa streamer/content creator? After trying mage, lock, dk, priest and evoker, rogue finally clicked, so I want to learn. Thx

[gusty hedge]

shadenox

[vocal surge]

Pet Galore Premade lol

5 BM Hunters on Warsong Gulch

[molten hedge]

@severe helm I’m just going off what @potent pivot and Kalvish told me. Bc secondary stats are so low the 1st ssn, that’s why we can’t afford to stack haste. We need crit and vers. You pretty much RTB off CD. trickz didn’t tell me to play take your cut, but he can chime in. I just know I played 3 shuffles without it and it felt god awful. I was completely energy starved. Had two 5-1s in a row when I took it

[potent pivot]

Take your cut is basically a lock in yeah

Not only is it really good for yourself, it’s also like a mini PI for any team mates in range

[molten hedge]

That too. What about Mewo’s other points about dropping stuff if you RTB off cd? I have no idea

[potent pivot]

Most people don’t drop cto or LD

There’s like 2 ppl who drop cto for gsw

It’s prolly not terrible to do that

But with charger you aren’t literally rerolling on CD, you don’t reroll 4-5 buffs

I could see waiting if you have 3 good buffs, I think Mewo and I were talking about that the other day

Hard to say exactly where to draw that line because you want to be utilizing the extra CDR charger is giving you as much as possible

[molten hedge]

Wonder how long before they spice up the hero talents. Ours are kinda ass. Fatebound does kinda fit outlaw, but in general, ours are boring

[vocal surge]

Fatebound is Dragonflight 2.0, no rotation changes necessarily

Trickster changes up the rotation

[molten hedge]

Fatebound seems better for the most part, damage wise and double grapple

@potent pivot what’s your philosophy on went to press Ghostly Strike

[potent pivot]

maybe they'll do some big changes for next expansion

i don't see them doing anything other than tuning to them this expac

[potent pivot]

pretty much on CD, if spending the energy won't fuck you up

[vocal surge]

^

[potent pivot]

is there a way to track weekly quest progress on alts

without logging over

[molten hedge]

Is there something rotational that I’m doing wrong if I get a bit energy starved at times with no procs? I’m guessing not having good uptime to get ADR back quicker or using vanishes well could have something to do with it. Since there’s not many outlaw guides I’m kinda just winging it

[vocal surge]

Holding AR instead of sending it on CD if it's still active?

[molten hedge]

Yeah I’m horrible about tracking anything like that. Good one

[safe pelican]

So I was pushing blitz last night or trying to & i had this match with a holy pala who swore i was trash cause we lost on deep wind gorge and i didn’t win a 1v1 against this outlaw rogue and then a feral sold both those caps just tried to cap first instead of being patient and getting sap into blind. ( correction I won against the feral but the base already capped before i killed him )

OFC he messages me after the game telling how trash i am and running my check pvp telling his past ratings blah blah long story short he was in my next match on the other team and got cooked by me all game

So I message back talking shit and he blocks me 😂 happens everytime

[potent pivot]

are epic BG queues always like 30min? shit's wild

[molten hedge]

Is there a minimum CP threshold in the crackshot window and outside of it

[potent pivot]

you always aim to finish on 5 or more

[molten hedge]

Ok good

I sustained 860k DPS on the PvP dummy ST last night for 5 mins. Does that sound pretty accurate

[potent pivot]

idk dummy math always kinda dogshit i don't pay attention to what i do to em

[molten hedge]

Ok. What do u avg in most matchups? I was at 250-300 but now I’m closer to 400k unless it’s all melee then it’s a lot more. But I don’t think I’ve had a match where I’ve done the rotation remotely well so I think I could do much more

Shuffle/3s mostly

[safe pelican]

Nah they should be like 8-9 minutes at least they are on Tich

You also play when everyone is at work doe

[potent pivot]

server doesn't matter

[potent pivot]

depends a lot on match length, comps, etc

you should be above 350k into basically anything even if you're getting cc chained like crazy

[molten hedge]

Good number to go off of

[potent pivot]

but it's such a wide margin it's not worth paying attention to

it's like 350k-1m

[languid ravine]

feelsgood when you kill 8 hordes and still dont get the warchest kek

either way those things are scary, I saw one fly though the whole Castle in Hailfall

[indigo hill]

Play on an rp server as alliance the chest is always yours.

[languid ravine]

supposedly my real is Horde 8 - 5 Alliance ratio but it really feels like 10 vs 2 almost every time

[vocal surge]

Moon Guard is 100% ally chest

[vocal surge]

Btw, if you want an easy time climbing up

Afternoon till Evening

Best time to queue for easy games

[safe pelican]

It doesn’t ?? I’m guessing that only matters for rated pvp ?? Or does the game pull from all realms for pvp

[vocal surge]

pulls from all realms

[potent pivot]

anything that you queue for is region wide

[halcyon timber]

Battle groups haven’t been a strict thing for quite a few expansions now

[molten hedge]

@potent pivot do you find you win more when u focus on damage or cc more? I try to find a balance but maybe I’m not pveing enough

[potent pivot]

i mean good cc is important in pvp

so you gotta do a mix of both

[molten hedge]

Yeah i think i spend too much of crackshot DR cheaping when I need to just kidney healer vanish cheap both dps if I’ll get peeled and get down to bizniz

[candid tide]

need to practice like whaazz constantly watching arena frames drs

its actually so hard to do that in shuffle game pace imo

[safe pelican]

When i was playing all day like that it became muscle memory for my brain to just check arena frames for drs every 10-15 seconds when i playing sub

Now i just hand out garrotes like hot cakes 🦦🤣

[blissful peak]

Does mark of the spelunker supreme give the 1800 tint or no?

[potent pivot]

Don’t think so

[severe helm]

Yeah take your cut is def big I'm just not sure rtb on CD is optimal even just from a cdr perspective. I do a lot of work on the APL for outlaw in pve so I'm familiar with a lot of the breakpoints there. We spent a loooot of time figuring out what's optimal for supercharger since the cost of losing buffs vs the cp gen is really hard to quantify so we just did weeks of experimenting with rules. In general what we got down to was that if pressing rtb would make you lose total buff count then it is not worth the cps. Pvp exceptions I could see would be using it before a vanish cuz the extra cps feed into ace procs so that's a lot of extra burst

So even at 2 buffs you wouldn't want to rtb down to 1 unless you had like the worst two buffs and even then it would be just about neutral. Esp if one of those buffs is cto you can just wait 8 seconds and rtb after you lose it

[potent pivot]

cdr in general is more potent in pvp i feel, because you aren't sitting at 100% uptime like a sim

[sour coral]

why do some outlaw rogues use a dagger offhand?

[molten hedge]

It feels like u do no damage without it is all I know. I respect your testing tho. If I’m going by eye test, not taking it is not worth

[sour coral]

i thought that stuff was normalizd

[potent pivot]

because it's slightly better for more poison procs

[sour coral]

o7

[severe helm]

Even from that perspective. One rtb is 6cps. One ambush proc is 6cps AND gives ps proc so it's actually worth more cps. One PS with broadside is also 6 cps and it gives audacity so also worth more. You could consider pressing rtb when you don't have either audacity or PS proc

But you lose overall cdr if you're pressing it and losing any decent buff

[potent pivot]

i just don't think that's how it shakes out

[severe helm]

It is a lot more energy efficient than ambush but not PS so that's probably why it made Josiah feel less energy starved

[severe helm]

Yeah I want to spend more time playing it I haven't done enough arena yet but just from a DPS and cdr perspective it doesn't really line up with all the TC we've done this season

[potent pivot]

the TC you've done for pve just doesn't translate to pvp man

like 90% of it

[severe helm]

Haha yeah I know you've said that

But like unless you're actively not able to hit a target I just don't see why you would rtb instead of ambush or PS and lose one or two buffs for the same amount of cps that doesn't do any damage

And that could mean wasting it when you could have held it for going into a vanish window

[lapis flare]

The sub rogue pvp guide says "Use Shadow Dance Icon Shadow Dance and Symbols of Death Icon Symbols of Death. With the talent The First Dance Icon The First Dance, you now have 4 Combo Points."

But that's not what first dance does

So what's the actual opener?

[dark stump]

what guide are u following?

[lapis flare]

icy veins

[potent pivot]

out of date man

[dark stump]

what guide is up to date ?

[potent pivot]

none

[stoic spruce]

Us

Bout it

[lapis flare]

Can someone write out the sub rotation lol

Seems like the opener should still work with shadow blades cuz the first cheap will give 5 points

/cast Symbols of Death
/cast Thistle Tea
/cast Eviscerate```

[dark stump]

what's the difference btw this and cast sequence?

[lapis flare]

My opener right now is SB, cheap, press this macro, strike, Secret tech, cheap, evis, cheap evis

[dark stump]

• i would not recommend using macro for ur combo

opener maybe but the rest

can someone explain to me why in assa some take Doomblade instead of KB?

[lapis flare]

Why not

It's three instant spells, a macro is way faster

[dark stump]

i do it with assa is that sometimes u may go against 2 enemy that can go invi and so u either start dps the healer to bait them out or wait

[lapis flare]

I only press the macro with blades, otherwise I manually press dance+symbols cuz I don't want to waste tea

[molten hedge]

Most either play Doomblade and serrated bone spike or master assassin and kingsbane. It’s just that one is more rot and one is a little more burst/finishing power.

[lapis flare]

I play bone spike in shuffle and kings/leathal poison in rbgs

I'm not normally team fighting in an bg

[dark stump]

oh and another question why taking tea
i feel like it's never procing/using it since i'm always max energy

[lapis flare]

mastery bonus

I really hate tea tho

Adding the auto drink mechanic instead of removing it was a terrible idea

[molten hedge]

In AoE team fights u prob don’t need tea although mastery buff is nice. But in arena some have trouble without tea. Ivanrah says if u pool energy for sanguine blades and let ur bleeds kill u Don’t need tea if u dot well

[lapis flare]

I just started playing rogue a week ago so I stick to tea cuz I starve myself, playing low cr around 2k in SS. Forced induction route would be nice for bomb gos tho

Also sub rogues eat my butt

[molten hedge]

Yeah u gotta save trinket for duel or bomb deff

And maybe gouge/blind/evasion/stun or they’ll restun

[potent pivot]

you shouldn't use macros like this

[lapis flare]

That's like saying you shouldn't use addons, or write programs to automate repeatable tasks. It's just nonsensical.

Of course a macro can be situationally useful.

[potent pivot]

no it isn't

the macro you posted is suboptimal

certain macros are great

macroing spells together when they shouldn't be used that way, isn't good

[lapis flare]

Okay, then tell me what is the correct combination

[potent pivot]

there isn't a correct combination for any of the spells in that macro

[dark stump]

yeah guess who lost

[lapis flare]

But if you need to press those spells in that sequence, then the macro is optimal

[potent pivot]

to play sub optimally you don't macro any of your dps spells

[lapis flare]

So tell me why I shouldn't press them in that sequence

You're giving generalizations without providing actual information

[potent pivot]

what happens if you need to dance->strike

or dance->cheap shot

i could list probably 10 different reasons

[dark stump]

i did most of the stun and damage but still managed to lose

does someone have a clue of what may have doomed me

[potent pivot]

if you're talking about using that macro while still having everything on it's own bind (dance, symbols, etc) then you're adding an extra keybind just for the macro for no reason.

[lapis flare]

I can press dance into strike

The point is that if I need to press those three buttons together, which make sense to press in certain situations, I can press one button

That is what a macro does

[potent pivot]

whatever floats your boat man

[lapis flare]

Again, you're not actually providing any information

Tell me why that's not three buttons you would ever press together and I'll change it

[potent pivot]

Assuming you’re using it directly after your first cheap shot, you’d rupture

Give me a sec and I’ll break down the rest

You’d also need to Flag at some point

[lapis flare]

If you don't evis then you're missing slice and dice?

[potent pivot]

missing SnD for a couple seconds isn't a big deal at all

[severe helm]

thats what I do haha

and then I almost never end up pressing it anyway

complete waste

[potent pivot]

yep

[severe helm]

theres just too many weird ways in which you slightly adjust the ogcd buttons for your burst as sub

[potent pivot]

i always weave in the off GCDs in between globals

all of your buffs have different durations

so there's an optimal order to press them in between globals

you don't want to waste your charger on that first rupture for example

dance is 8s, symbols is 10s +2 chargers, tea is 6s, blades is 16, then you've also got Flag

you also have Danse Macabre to think about, Darkest Night, etc

[languid ravine]

just so you know for the future, its always the rogues fault if your team loses

thats why you just have to win all the time

unless there is another rogue in your team who you can blame then its fine to lose

[severe helm]

no its the warriors fault who keeps extending dr 2 seconds before it will reset so they can shockwave them for 0.25 seconds

I swear there isnt a single warrior on the entire ladder who tracks stun DR

[potent pivot]

i feel like a lot of the good warriors aren't playing warrior rn

it just kinda sucks

except like blizo/magnusz

[candid tide]

warrior is so fun in shuffle the dmg is pretty insane

[potent pivot]

yeah it's prolly one of the easiest shuffle classes

you just go in and hammerfist your keyboard

[candid tide]

yeah thought id struggle cause of the many utilities

but u win literally by pressing random buttons

[languid ravine]

its not random, its either 1, 2 or 3

and or 2 and 3

[candid tide]

or more accurately u can actually win by panic button bashing

[languid ravine]

or press every button at once

that works too

just press fear on CD idk why but it always hits 2 or 3 guys :^D

[indigo hill]

Why track when you can zug? 😁

[kind parcel]

Most don't, good ones do

[dark stump]

i don't even remember who is it xD

[kind parcel]

How dare you do damage when you're not with him man

[dark stump]

how dare he heal like a god when he is against me

i lost 5 times a

it was this one

[lapis flare]

Palumors bust also does the macro I posted for burst
strike > flag > kidney > blades + dance + badge + symbols + tea + evis > strike > tech > cheap > evis > cheap > evis

[spring bough]

People reporting others for their own failures. Gotta love it

Had the same thing happen to me the other day. Beat a lock for mines and this dude on the enemy team said I was win trading 😂

[dark stump]

imagine i lost against an ench sham who did 100m total damage

some will call it skill issue

i call it racism

[potent pivot]

not exactly the shining example, but like i said, whatever floats your boat

[dark stump]

opinion on my talent ?

[potent pivot]

it's the same thing as everyone else, not sure what you want us to say

drop the slow duration talent in the class tree it's trash

[dark stump]

it's from skill cap

[dark stump]

which one (i'm still new to rogue)

[potent pivot]

drop unbreakable stride, it's trash

you should be playing Featherfoot

[dark stump]

oooh

[potent pivot]

also swap momentum of despair to follow the blood in the hero tree

other than those 2 talent swaps you've got what most people are playing

personally a couple other people and i prefer the pinned build with KB+MA and supercharger

but the build you linked is probably easier to play around as beginner

[dark stump]

the problem is i feel like kb doesn't do enough damage

and playing without it reduce the number of button i need to press

[potent pivot]

it does a good amount of dmg if you use it correctly

[dark stump]

ok thx

[timid gust]

2.4k player about to pick up my rogue, what spec is the play rn? Or is it different for shuffle/bgb

[severe helm]

sub is the best bgb spec

but all 3 can do rogue things so theyre all decent

outlaw is def the weakest in bgb

in shuffle assa is the easiest but arguably outlaw is the strongest rn. Sub is def worst in shuffle

outlaw is the hardest of the 3 though(arguably on par with sub) so assa will be much easier gains than outlaw in shuffle when youre starting out

[dark stump]

play assa or sub

outlaw is too random (i'm not saying this cause i do trash damage with it)

• outlaw is can be called an apm class

[severe helm]

Outlaws entire rotation is very momentum driven and if you don't know how to recover when you lose momentum it can feel really bad

[dark stump]

(icyvein sources) outlaw don't get instantly punished for mistake so u need to know exactly what to do

[languid ravine]

feral is actually so trash to play its insane, sooooo many frustration points dude

[dark stump]

ok

2m hit with bite is trash

[languid ravine]

I m talking about the trash mechanics like having to shift all the time and hardcast cyclone and trying to land your tiny AoE typhoon and kiting as a melee and maintaining your 6 shitty dots and losing your stuns if you fail stealth and stealthing off of incarn and not the numbers

[candid tide]

i tried feral too the play style is very hybrid, its the least fun spec ima leave it for last

[languid ravine]

and defensively it feels kinda weak with no selfheal and sitting in bearform is lame af

[molten hedge]

It has two charges of frenzied regen and that big heal with the blue leaf. And instant rejuv procs all the time. Lol but yeah I agree it’s not fun to me

They made it manageable with fluid form to easily switch bear and cat

[languid ravine]

thats like a crimson vial with 3x the cooldown :d

[dark stump]

u got talent that can make u seslf heal and another that make u keep ur stat of bear form in cat fform

[molten hedge]

It’s weird that moonkin doesn’t have fluid form on par with feral

And they are squishy af

[candid tide]

keybinding feral is a pain too

[tribal badger]

if ur into pures the hybrid style might turn u off

generally classes with spammable self healing dont have dedicated % hp heal buttons on low cds tho

since they can u know, heal themselves whenever they want to

while we can only do it via crimson vial and the like on a cd

[potent pivot]

no selfheal? wut?

[severe helm]

frenzy is way stronger than vial

also they have WAY more self healing

[molten hedge]

Yeah and bear is strong af

[severe helm]

I think feral might have the most self healing of any melee

by a huge margin

[tribal badger]

ehhhh

[molten hedge]

I can duel a Druid and him sit in bear form and be unkillable for my burst lmao

[severe helm]

maybe enhance

[tribal badger]

id be surprised if that isnt enhance

[severe helm]

thats about it

enhance goes oom though

[tribal badger]

theres not much enhance this season but like

[severe helm]

if you heal a lot

[tribal badger]

when u face a good one

[severe helm]

very quickly

[tribal badger]

they r immortal when they have mana

yea

if they rotate thru it effectively instead of spamming tho

[candid tide]

warrior has good healing too if u dont fall out ur rotation

[molten hedge]

Also enh sacrifices a lot of damage to heal

[severe helm]

yeah

[tribal badger]

dont think they do

[severe helm]

they def do

[tribal badger]

didnt they fix that with the pvp talent

[molten hedge]

They do

[tribal badger]

maelstrom weapon no long consumed and doesnt impact heals

[molten hedge]

When I played last ssn

[tribal badger]

instead after u consume maelstrom charges

u get a free heal

[dark stump]

the rollercoast of fear when i saw feral getting buff

[tribal badger]

equal to what consuming would have done from those stacks

u no longer use stacks to heal

u need to spend stacks then u can heal for free

[molten hedge]

Wait. It’s getting buffed again? Or u mean initially months ago?

[dark stump]

buff in pve not in pvp

[molten hedge]

Oh jfc thank god lol.

[dark stump]

don't remember which one

[severe helm]

people dont really run it

[potent pivot]

i think their hero tree got buffed

in pvp too

[dark stump]

but it's the one with the buff of fire mage

[potent pivot]

the tree they don't use though

[dark stump]

iu don't think so

[severe helm]

you usually end up taking static/burrow/crash instead

cuz you almost never drop shamanism or grounding

[tribal badger]

thats wild to me

[severe helm]

you just go oom

so you cant really use that anyway

heal costs like 25% of base mana

[tribal badger]

maybe just because people dont focus enhance

[severe helm]

its actually absurd how little you can heal

and if you go oom as enhance

youre FUCKED

[potent pivot]

both of those are buffs for pvp too

[severe helm]

you cant use anything

[dark stump]

why the first one

like he do 2m with one spell

[tribal badger]

u mean u cant use ur utility yea

need to give it like 10-20s to refill enough

[severe helm]

even your rotation buttons cost mana

at least some of them

[potent pivot]

what

[tribal badger]

sure

0.4%-1% mana

[severe helm]

yeah but if youre oom you cant press them haha

[tribal badger]

u regen like 10% mana per 5 as a utility class