pvp

[molten hedge]

I got 2192 ln, so I’m either going to lvl an alt rogue or try feral or ww until MMR inflates more

Pretty stoked. Last ssn was my first ssn and I got duelist a couple times but 2.2k rn feels a lot harder than duelist last ssn

This channel has been a huge part to helping me climb. Thank you @potent pivot for everything. Also that supercharged symbolic build kinda slaps lmao had several ppl say wtf killed me to see a 2+ mil envenom 🤣

[potent pivot]

we love to see it

[molten hedge]

Lmao. Did have a question. Since kidney has internal bleeding, do we like to kidney KT and cheap healer? @potent pivot

[potent pivot]

that's super situational really

it shouldn't be the deciding factor of which target you kidney basically

[molten hedge]

Do you have a few general strats of how you line up kills? I know this is also situational. But like say KT has no trinket but healer does, is kidney bomb KT then blind healer when he runs in and vanish/cheaping healer’s trinket a good general way to land kills? Or do u like to blind or stun healer first then kidney bomb as a general rule

Feel like my bombs get fkd sometimes and if I were a bit more patient of when I do them, I’d probably end matches a lot quicker

[potent pivot]

like you said it can be situational as well ye

depending on what DRs look like etc

[woven sage]

yay that helped, Trickz 🙂

[potent pivot]

if you blind them first, then bomb as blind is about to fall off, then cheap when they're running in, that can work

just depends

[potent pivot]

[molten hedge]

Not much worse than a bomb getting scuffed. I guess if you get trinkets and CDs then it was somewhat successful

[old dome]

Gonna craft MH dagger on Sub for blitz. According to Murloc, Lens embolish is the second used embolish and its crafted on dagger. Any ideas?

[potent pivot]

just remember that you get 2 weapon tokens for earning 2500 conquest

the optimal gear path atm would be to wait and get those

[old dome]

Yea I remember we talking about it. Feeling I need to start craft items. Im feeling bad in honor / blood gear. I cant be competative with others.

What would you recommend my first craft to be?

[potent pivot]

you can craft a lot of slots

boots/bracer crafts will be bis all season

2x rings

[old dome]

Boots with Dusk or Lens embol?

[potent pivot]

that one's kinda up to you

i'd probably go Lens x2 personally

duskthread gives you some vers which is added damage and a lil bit of damage reduction

but Lens does a decent bit more damage than that vers will make you do

[old dome]

Yeah and being average having to stay above 80% hp in blitz wont be effecient for me.

[woven sage]

What's the best enchant on daggers for pvp?

atm i have radiant power

[potent pivot]

for assa yeah?

[woven sage]

Yes mate

[potent pivot]

staying radiant is fine

a lot of people have been swapping to Depths lately

personally i don't think it's worth swapping to atm if you already have Radiant

Depths does a good chunk of damage, but it's mostly ST

Radiant procs do some ST damage, but you also get a nice amount of Agility which makes all of your bleeds do more damage

assa is all about spreading bleeds on everything so it's quite good

[wanton breach]

fun times

[orchid plinth]

FDK S-tier

[jaunty osprey]

Ya, I dropped my Ivanrah char out just trying different stuff out 😦

But I made another rogue and fully geared it yday, gonna have 2 rogues stay within range and fuck around on an alt

[midnight radish]

wich spec shall i use for pvp ? its still subtlety the main choice ?

[potent pivot]

all 3 are decent

[midnight radish]

noice

[molten hedge]

How do I make a shuffle with sub not suck ass lol? Hard to go against and seemingly hard to win. Maybe need
To play more defensively when they’re on my team around their CDs?

Since we’re likely not getting kills b/t dances

[potent pivot]

try to make sure you peel their CDs if you can

their big flag/blades CDs especially

[molten hedge]

They love to duel me. And sometimes I’ll trinket to disarm or peel somehow and they insta cheap. Guess it’s just bad timing

What about winning with them? Just try to apply max pressure so they can duel someone?

[potent pivot]

yeah i guess

try not to fuck their stun DRs on the KT

[molten hedge]

Ok thanks. It’s a tough matchup for Assa for sure. Them and frost mages

I rarely go frost mage lol. Unless it’s Lordaeron and even then I typically prefer other targets lmao

[hard garnet]

What's up fellow assassins, trying to get into arena this tier. What's our role in 2s? Keep dots up on both and wait for burst windows? Thanks.

[molten hedge]

Probably a dampener in 2s although there’s a build in the pinned messages that you can hit some juicy envenoms using the supercharger/symbolic victory in Deathstalker tree

[jaunty osprey]

To win against them, IF YOU HAVE TRINKET play 30 yards from your healer so the sub rogue cant kidney shot your healer and cheap you on the same go - and if he does manage to get to you when he kidneys your healer, just spam your disarm bind as he’s stepping to you

[safe pelican]

Assa is doing really well against sub this xpac tbh , Just have to counter blades and get his cloak once you get his cloak you get the edge but he has the edge until after he cloaks so i just play around that im cheaping him as soon as he pops blades 60% of the time you can get a trinket if he doesn’t trinket get ready to get blasted for a bit pop evasion after etc etc dr cheap i just burn blades then get back to work not as high rated as you guys but 🦦

My brothers 🤣 @spring bough @stoic spruce give me blitz tips before I quit this god forsaken spec and go back to assa 24/7

Can’t go negative in blitz again today or ima retire

[molten hedge]

Ahh u can disarm behind you? Dopeee

[jaunty osprey]

Nooo, but you definitely have time to spin around to disarm though vs most sub rogues

unless they’re macroing dance and cheapshot together there is a slight delay

[spring bough]

Hook around the map. Steal caps with smoke, sap, stun, blind. Rinse repeat. GG

Or focus EFCs and slam them all game

[stoic spruce]

Reroll game

What he said though for realsies

You gotta be a hard-core obj player

Absolutely no team fights

[tender ember]

id say sub hardcounters assa in normal 3s arena. Sub is kinda only viable with mage which means u basically got 0 mobility to have uptime on kiting sub rog, as well as if u tunnel rogue, mage will just blast u full time

[spring bough]

I’m about to become a Sin god today

Once I get these conquest weps 😂

[limber crown]

Hello im new here and new to rogue^^

do i "NEED" to run a dagger in my offhand as outlaw or can i use 2 swords?^^

[safe pelican]

Gunna run like that today my teammates keep telling me to sit at bases and I’ll hold the base all game and we lose foolishness , finally got the sap cap thing down last night

@stoic spruce that’s where I’m going wrong trying to team fight but i don’t see how i could not team fight on the orb map guess i just sit on their efc their but your healers will prio healing your teams orb so learning curve 2nd week playing blitz ever appreciate you kind gentlemen 🤝 🪝

[potent pivot]

You don’t NEED to no, buts it’s slightly better

[limber crown]

what makes it better?

[potent pivot]

Poison procs

[limber crown]

thats it?

[potent pivot]

Mhm

[limber crown]

what aabout fatal flourish?

[potent pivot]

Everything else is normalized

[plucky escarp]

Don’t you need a mh dagger to gouge and mutilate too? In response to the two swords thing

[limber crown]

this pleases me^^

u made my day good sir^^

[potent pivot]

Outlaw

[plucky escarp]

Oh word I thought he said sin

[stoic spruce]

With the orb map, never go fight by yourself and never fight anyone that doesn't have a orb other than to generate pressure on say a healer or w/e

[spring bough]

Sometimes I will sit bases like Farm on the Panda map. Depends on both teams comp. If they have a BM hunter sitting one base it’s hard to get it sometimes with the pets. Or picking a fight against another rogue defending. Just gotta change up based on the situation

[spring bough]

The only team fight I really do is orb map. Go for EFC orb carriers first then peel out and pick an orb and join the fight

[safe pelican]

Good tips my rogue brothers 📝 🤝 will report back on todays blitz push after trabajar 🦦🔐

[spring bough]

Let’s do a lunch bet

Who can hit 1600 in blitz as outlaw and sin first 😂

I gotta get my green geared sin rogue decked and pushing later lol

[minor zephyr]

For assa i can copy the build in the pins? I can remember that trickz said something i can or have to change on the pinned buid?

[potent pivot]

there's a note under the build

you can run it with Tea, or with Forced Induction

[spring bough]

I tried supercharger sin build without tea in a solo last night…… yeah only playing tea from here on out as sin 😂

[gleaming sentinel]

I just cracked 1900 as outlaw in blitz and shuffle, really love this class.

[minor zephyr]

Oh thx iam blind. Saw there are also two builds for sub, iam not in the game now there are different playstyles?

[potent pivot]

not really

same playstyles, just different build

[limber crown]

is there a way to make the travel time of grappling hook faster?

[potent pivot]

Nope

[limber crown]

tyvm

[minor zephyr]

Tyty

[spring bough]

I like how there’s just about 10 outlaw at elite in blitz and around 5 in solo

Then you go look at Sin. And it’s like 20 in solo and 60+ in blitz 😂

[marble kelp]

is bonespike bugged right now?

[potent pivot]

how so?

[lilac sigil]

FI or tea sin for blitz? In solo with FI I don’t have problem with energy but in blitz I feel like constant lack of energy

[marble kelp]

I'm at a training dummy and applied 3 bonespikes with rupture. The total dmg is 410k for 3 hits after 15 seconds

no dot dmg on details at all

[potent pivot]

i would probably go FI tbh

[potent pivot]

sbs on dummies has always been jank as hell

[marble kelp]

kk

[potent pivot]

it used to tick forever

locking you in combat until you relog

i'd test it on a player

[marble kelp]

I went to a mob outside dorn and see the tick dmg

[lilac sigil]

I will try to spread more bleeds maybe it will improve regen

[potent pivot]

they prolly disabled the dot on dummies

because of the old bug lol

[spring bough]

I wish Sin had some form of CDR for vanish

[old dome]

@potent pivot hi you around?

[potent pivot]

ye

[old dome]

Mind if I ask you something on pm? I dont wanna be repetative again asking the same noobish question here.

[potent pivot]

it's fine either way idm

[old dome]

PM'ed you

[safe pelican]

lol I’m at 1458 rn was pushing like 100 rating per game when i was 60% win ratio now after i got cooked last night im gaining like 15 a game can’t lose anymore or im cooked so you will most likely win assa pumps in greens full dots still

[spring bough]

lol I’m only at like 500 rating so you got this. Keep crushing it

15-20 the average rating you get from blitz past 1400 for wins

[safe pelican]

Word that’s straight then but , I lost the 3 games yesterday where i played above my MMR gotta win those games to get that big rating boost now im playing below gunna lock in after work for a bit

WhaaZZ playing some outlaw 3s rn

[potent pivot]

they haven't been doing too hot

[molten hedge]

Same. Probably doing something wrong but felt horrible

[spring bough]

I’m gonna drop DS and alacrity later for it and see how that feels

[jaunty osprey]

If you multidot correctly, you will never need tea for energy

it’s not just multidotting though

You need your lethal poison on someone with dots

so use fan of knives

It’s also a better generator for CP than mutilate in multi target situations

[molten hedge]

Yeah in melee lobbies I agree never energy starved even without tea

But with casters on a big map that you’re slowed it feels rly hard to keep dots on any more than 1-2

[jaunty osprey]

Even in hybrid lobbies, if you aren’t multidotting you aren’t getting scent of blood benefit

Do drive by dots on your way to kill target

Keep kill target slowed by applying crippling with poison knife

[molten hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/gillslawyer-cat-driving-gif-969605860353026195

Ok I will try this. Thank you

[jaunty osprey]

Play with tea still, but practice keeping dots and your lethal poison up

For energy regen

[molten hedge]

Besides the poison itself, you mentioned lethal does something else for energy regen?

Have you guys ever posted VODs or vids of you playing in here? There’s not a ton of Assa content. The best one I’ve found is probably Shadenox since he explains his thought process

[jaunty osprey]

Look up venomous wounds talent

every time garrote or rupture ticks on someone that has wound/deadly/amp poison on them, it gives you 8 energy

[molten hedge]

Oh duh lol

So in a wizard lobby are you poison knifing everyone as ur getting kited

[jaunty osprey]

My kill target for sure

and tabbing closest target to refresh bleeds while I waddle

to kill target

[molten hedge]

Isn’t poison knife 40-50 energy? Do u know how often it ticks for 12 secs

I’m guessing every 1-2 seconds

[jaunty osprey]

crippling lasts for 10 seconds or smth

So

[molten hedge]

But it gives 8 energy for both gar and rupture so it’s deff worth it I guess to poison knife if they have

16 energy per tick right

It’s wound poison tho right that’s lethal not crippling?

[jaunty osprey]

Oh you’re still talking about that

yeah it’s wound

Lasts 12 seconds

[potent pivot]

you're also actively losing energy to Sanguine Blades if you're above 50% energy, but yeah

[jaunty osprey]

More importantly, I find that most people don’t fan of knives enough

when multitargets are in range

[molten hedge]

Is it worth to be above 50? I’ve heard both arguments but idk tbh

[potent pivot]

yes

[jaunty osprey]

If you’re multi dotting there is 0 way you can go out of energy

[potent pivot]

you should only poison knife if you're out of range

just making sure that is thrown out there

when you apply garrote/rupture they have a decent chance of applying your poisons at the same time

[molten hedge]

Say youre in a melee lobby and vanish and get aoe gar and rupture off. Are you refreshing both of them towards the end of the 11 or 12 sec window if playing ind carnage?

Bc I usually do

[jaunty osprey]

I do, yes

[molten hedge]

Dope. Figured

[jaunty osprey]

But you dont have to,

I usually always

Double garrote openers

Like I do smth like garrote ambush rupture garrote garrote kidney

Since it gives 3 cp guaranteed and perma silence

[safe pelican]

Yea not really just finished watching myself gotta get back to work

[jaunty osprey]

sometimes i garrote ambush rupture cheapshot garrote

[spring bough]

My favorite in low level lobbies has been just training healer and bleed cleaving off him and throwing a smoke when they are 25-30% and then watch the sudden demise pop

[jaunty osprey]

Also, supercharge rupture can be good for openers if people are stacked as well!!

So like garrote ambush CT, garrote shiv rupture

throw in random cheap shots

[spring bough]

I started using the mutilate dot talent and bone spikes over kings bane and master assassin

For more bleeds for that sudden demise

[potent pivot]

kingsbane would put more into it

[jaunty osprey]

sudden demise only procs at 10% in pvp

Kingsbane is enough

to make it proc guaranteed

at 10%

[potent pivot]

ye you use it to push them down to it

[safe pelican]

Smart

[jaunty osprey]

And then the dot of bane ticks for like

300k+

[potent pivot]

and you still get lethal dose from kb

[spring bough]

So then screw bone spikes lol

[jaunty osprey]

way better than doomblade

and sbs

And the CD lines up with badge 🙂

[safe pelican]

Try the CB KB build Sinnen doomblade was better last xpac

[spring bough]

Sin is doing crit trinket instead of haste one??

[potent pivot]

it hasn't been no

[gleaming pawn]

Insignia

[potent pivot]

but with KB it can ye

[gleaming pawn]

The proc trinket

I use Badge with my KB, but I’m outside the norm

[potent pivot]

CB isn't terrible but it's nowhere what it was last expac

[gleaming pawn]

And will be buying the proc insignia next

[potent pivot]

anyone running KB is fine running badge

[jaunty osprey]

I think badge is better if you use KB

[spring bough]

I’m guessing cold blood dropped off cause of death mark giving a guaranteed envenom crit at max CP

[jaunty osprey]

cause you get guaranteed stats for your goes

[potent pivot]

nope

they nerfed the initial hit of kingsbane

[safe pelican]

Nah it’s not i just like smacking it when someone is at 35% or less like Ivanrah was saying it really is a free kill lol i do flip out of it depending on the comp

[spring bough]

So no more two mil kingsbane initial lol

[jaunty osprey]

I mean I still got to #2 shuf with CB kingsbane this xpac

[gleaming pawn]

Cold blood has never been great for Assa, since you use it with KB and it only affects the initial hit. After the initial hit has been nerfed into the ground it’s been mid at best

[jaunty osprey]

Sin rogue is lucky u can customize talents to ur playstyle this xpac

[potent pivot]

ye it isn't bad

[jaunty osprey]

so just play what u like

[potent pivot]

just saying it's nothing compared to last expansion

[jaunty osprey]

sbs, kb, super charge, cb

Deeper strat

[potent pivot]

where KB's initial hit was doing 30% of someone's hp

[spring bough]

Anyone been running DTB at all or is that dead too lol

[jaunty osprey]

It still was for me up till Tuesday, idk what changed

[potent pivot]

dtb is pretty dead yeah

[jaunty osprey]

but I’m not complaining

[spring bough]

I went for the full shiv bleed build with no DTB

[potent pivot]

it was nerfed going into TWW

it isn't doing 30% of hp pools rn

[jaunty osprey]

Smh do u need me to pull out the 1.5m screenshots again

[potent pivot]

bro

[jaunty osprey]

of 35% -> 0%

From last week

[potent pivot]

that's not 30%

of 7m

[molten hedge]

I usually cheap everyone first so I don’t get peeled and get my ambush off. That ok right

[potent pivot]

like i said

i'm not saying it's bad

[jaunty osprey]

Nah u’re right

LOL

i’m just being annoying

[potent pivot]

i'm just stating the facts lol

[gleaming pawn]

Assa needs a touch of death style execute that is amped by Zold though. I approve of that message

[potent pivot]

we have that

[jaunty osprey]

Uhh, situational!! Good to cheap shot vs certain classes like war, monk, hunter etc

So they cant scatter, disarm

bolt, incap

[potent pivot]

envenom, kingsbane, sudden demise, zold

they all synergize

[gleaming pawn]

I mean in addition to what we have now. Because most everything we do is over time

[jaunty osprey]

Sudden demise has been so buggy for me this xpac

[gleaming pawn]

And I only want it because it would be broken

[jaunty osprey]

and not proccing despite fully refreshed bleeds

[potent pivot]

yeah it doesn't proc as often

[molten hedge]

I thought supercharge was for the spender not the builder. I’m new to it. I need to get in the habit of throwing a shiv on KT in opener even if I’m not bursting right away so that
Maybe we get a cheeky kill with my partner bursting if they’re someone with high burst

[gleaming pawn]

I personally hate sudden demise, and have advocated to not bothering taking it in pvp. It just feels borderline pointless most of the time (outside of the increased bleed damage)

[jaunty osprey]

Not taking it is trolling cause the bleed dmg

is too good

[gleaming pawn]

Ye

[potent pivot]

yep

[potent pivot]

it is for the spender, wdym

[jaunty osprey]

that’s losing 10% mastery for 1 capstone 😦

[gleaming pawn]

This was mostly early s1, last expac. But still

[jaunty osprey]

ya

They need to buff DTB for pvp

so we arent forced to play just bleeds

[potent pivot]

iirc they nerfed it pretty badly

[jaunty osprey]

Poison rotting can be fun

[potent pivot]

in order to allow KB+DTB or something

because it would've been far too broken

[gleaming pawn]

Yeah it’s reduced proc rate

DTB won’t be able to compete though until poisons actually do damage, and can do damage in AoE. And that would require a lot of changes in the tree/style of assa to begin with

[potent pivot]

they also nerfed numbing in pvp

if Amp wasn't a must take with dtb we'd be able to try spatter too

i tried it for the hell of it a couple times in blitz week 1 and it seemed disgusting for team fights

[gleaming pawn]

It definitely is disgusting, but it’s so hard to take

[molten hedge]

I think ivanrah said he likes to do supercharged garrotes. Maybe I misunderstand is all

[gleaming pawn]

Like giving up wound for deadly and keeping amp works, but then you lose your AoE rot pressure

[potent pivot]

rupture

[spring bough]

WTB Inc melee and poison dmg so I can do an envenom build

[gleaming pawn]

There’s a DTB build you can use in 2s. It just loses most of its AoE pressure so it doesn’t work really in team fights

[spring bough]

I saw someone on murlok didn’t take indiscriminate carnage and was like HUH

[molten hedge]

Lol I forgot how to read apparently

[gleaming pawn]

It’s also not a lot more ST pressure compared to the current bleed builds. So it’s kinda pointless to use when the current builds can do everything

[spring bough]

Good ST and aoe from the same build is so nice

That aoe garrote and rupture some of the best stuff they did for sin

[jaunty osprey]

You don’t NEED IC

but it isnt good

and makes quality of life better

[spring bough]

QOL with is so nice

Just hit one and all three bleeding lol

[jaunty osprey]

Use a shiv every time you stun

or right before

[timber flax]

any major sub rogue pvpers able to hint me towards tea vs double vanish in 2s rogue/mage? running the DB set with points into swift death and planned execution so i can see how tea might be insane but is double vanish not just insane for rogue/mage resets?

nervous about getting caught out after a failed reset or not getting the kill after the one guaranteed reset i get

[woven sage]

@potent pivot made it to 1800

[potent pivot]

you probably want to drop vanish/subt

[woven sage]

Thanks for the tips earlier today

[potent pivot]

[timber flax]

is there a particular reason people are dropping it in favor of tea? bigger burst aside the scary part to me is less room for error

[potent pivot]

just damage

sub is very lacking in damage now

[timber flax]

gotcha imma test it then. thanks mate

[potent pivot]

double dps 2s just aren't viable

to be real with you

[woven sage]

Took 101 rounds

Which doesn't seem too bad while learning

[molten hedge]

Is this the tech? Assuming you mean the KT so they don’t peel u

[potent pivot]

shiv buffs bleed damage by 30%

and nature dmg

also insta applies 30% healing reduction

[molten hedge]

Yeah it’s almost like a mini go

[spring bough]

WTB CDR on some sin abilities

[warm girder]

Hit 2100 in Blitz last night as Assassination and i gotta say its thanks to the casters put on flag defense who dont melee attack me when im cloak capping

[potent pivot]

don't give them any ideas

shh

[spring bough]

I’ve already had a few run up and hit me with a staff

It’s not fun lol

You’re just sitting there like “don’t do it…….”

[warm girder]

Only one mage gave me the staff bonk of shame

[safe pelican]

lol can’t give sin CDR class would end up like sub

We need ONE spec that doesn’t get fooked every patch

Imagine a CDR on DM with double vanish lol GGs

[hardy tinsel]

outlaw pvp is fun

[jaunty osprey]

If they just reverted the kidney change, rogue would be good again

[safe pelican]

I agree 10 seconds is long time in this game with how fast everyone is blowing CDs

So bored at work need the queues already 😔🦦

[spring bough]

10 seconds is an eternity

[jaunty osprey]

Also petition for scatter shot not to remove dots

[hidden moth]

whats the mech called that letsd u gar 2x and it hits 24 seconds and not 18 duration

[potent pivot]

pandemic

[glass hazel]

have a newbie question, how to deal with bop -_- i always get it on my cds as assa, they wait for me go all in and bop target gg, come back 2m after

[spring bough]

Swap target. DOT someone else up. Swap back when BOP ends

[glass hazel]

i mean cd is wasted already maybe there is a way how to bait them without wasting ;x switch is obv yeah cant do any damage in it anyway

[potent pivot]

don't worry so much about deathmark

it's a piss cd in pvp

[glass hazel]

ah okay, it is big cd in pve, thought the same in pvp 🙂 just started to pvp this season

[potent pivot]

it's nerfed by 50% in pvp and there's a lot of things that counter it

get as many defensives you can out of it and dw about the rest

[glass hazel]

ok, thank you 🙂

just got to 1.8k and things start to be spicy haha

got surprised that most people actually pretty chill and dont insult you for being newbie

[potent pivot]

Well everyone’s just trying to play the game too

Also they’ve started handing out muted and bans like hot cakes

So you see a lot less flaming these days

[spring bough]

Gets even spicier that’s where the funs at

[molten hedge]

Maybe good to bait cds with DM and hold shiv/stun/KB? or do a fake go with a stun and DM?

[spring bough]

Playing perfect hitting 10/10 and then someone CC to ruin a whole go. Great times

[glass hazel]

one more question does fok break cc?

[potent pivot]

Ye

[glass hazel]

crap

[potent pivot]

Soft cc

[glass hazel]

now i knew why paladin was mad haha

[potent pivot]

You can check cc breaks for each match on details

If you check that after every game you’ll learn pretty quickly what not to press when certain cc is being used nearby

[glass hazel]

ok, i'll try, thank you

[vocal surge]

Blowing people up in SS

Lol

[spring bough]

Next elite outlaw up and coming

[vocal surge]

Aye

As Trickster too

Pumping over 1M dps without 3p

Imma be pushing people over that threshold on reset

Suffocating Darkness kinda sucks ngl

It's on the very bottom of the dps list on every fight

Even if it's straight beelining someone

[potent pivot]

depths enchant?

shit usually does 7-10% of your damage

are you running like zero haste or somethin

[vocal surge]

I'm Haste Mast

It's doing 2% - 3% of my damage profile

Without Blade Flurry

[potent pivot]

that sounds extremely weird

[vocal surge]

Aye

[potent pivot]

it usually does a good amount of damage for sinnen from what i can recall

so i don't think it'd be something weird like it proc'ing off coins

could play a role in it though

[vocal surge]

The only reason I'm honestly keeping it is to keep people from restealthing

[plucky escarp]

Do MW have something that blocks cc? I threw a kidney at one and it didn’t get stunned. I am positive it wasn’t a DR issue

[potent pivot]

they have a stacking dodge buff

[plucky escarp]

Oh good

[potent pivot]

you have to hit them with something before trying to stun

to consume their buff

and even after you consume it they have a 10% dodge chance

so it can still happen

[safe pelican]

I’ve been seeing depths go crazy on the dummy but no where to be found after in game details

Like after an actual match

[potent pivot]

it was averaging 9% overall for whaazz earlier

[safe pelican]

Well shit that’s pretty good I’m going to look for it today otw home nowwww 🏎️🏇

[spring bough]

Some games this enchants 9-10th ranked on my overall damage abilities. Other games it’s 2-5. Never consistent. Can’t tell why it’s always up and down

[spring bough]

It definitely does 5%+ atleast for me

[vocal surge]

for me, its consistently in the 2% - 3% range

[potent pivot]

depends on your uptime

[spring bough]

Do you have it on both weps?

[vocal surge]

in both short and long term game

only 1

[spring bough]

I know we were trying the mastery enchant

[potent pivot]

oh that's why

[spring bough]

Yeah that’s why

I got two

[vocal surge]

I imagine having 2 is double

[languid ravine]

10 seconds is like 4 health bars deleted

[spring bough]

Yeah get a second. It feels like it’s more than double. Should be doing at minimum 5% lol

[molten hedge]

Suffocating dark also 5%+ for me as well.

[spring bough]

Literally tho lol

[languid ravine]

closer to 7 if you play shaman

[vocal surge]

imma stay Radiant Power MH

because when that buff kicks in

you absolutely feel it kick in

[spring bough]

OH radiant would probably rock better instead of depths if it’s only doing 3%

[vocal surge]

Yeee

[potent pivot]

i will never understand you guys

[vocal surge]

[potent pivot]

i can't tell you what you're doing wrong, but you're doing it wrong

[vocal surge]

How so?

[mortal jay]

Better day. Last week got to 2045. Then dropped beack to 1500. Got 300 points back today at about 1830

[potent pivot]

trickster/mastery/depths doing 2%

[mortal jay]

And slowly but steadily climbing in blitz

[potent pivot]

something's off with these 3 things

[potent pivot]

sick man

[vocal surge]

Radiant Power isn't mastery

Mastery's is Stonebound Artistry

[potent pivot]

i know it isn't

[potent pivot]

[vocal surge]

Ye

14% haste, 30% mastery

When I get to PvE people down, I have 45% haste for the entire fight assuming no CCs get thrown my way

@spring bough MH Suffocating Darkness

[potent pivot]

is that shit r1 or something?

[vocal surge]

both enchants are 3 stars

[potent pivot]

that's insane

[potent pivot]

i've never seen it do less than like 5%

with 2

[spring bough]

Yeah 1 depths don’t look worth it tbh lol

[vocal surge]

Yee

only good vs stealth

as outlaw

because its like 18s duration magical rupture

[safe pelican]

Why 1 depths & not two ?

[glass hazel]

for assa radiant better i think?

[vocal surge]

Radiant Power gives AGI

That's buffed by trinket set bonus

And if affects the entire damage profile

[safe pelican]

Mhmmmm interesting 🧐

[glass hazel]

like 7k if both proc

[vocal surge]

Yeee

5k Agi

That's big

Assuming 2 procs

[potent pivot]

just personal preference for assa

pretty much everyone has been swapping to Depths x2

[vocal surge]

+9k from Insignia of Alacrity proc

Ezpz 1M BTEs without 4p

[vocal surge]

But ye, whenever Radiant Power procs, someone's gonna be almost dead lol

Especially when it is with Insignia of Alacrity

[jaunty osprey]

Using one of each enchant is always worse

Just pick one to use on both weapons lmao

I’m all for people being creative and innovative, but that’s actually silly

Can’t complain about it doing low damage if you’re using 1

That’s like using ascension wep embellishment without the patch

[jolly sierra]

just bought depths

[safe pelican]

I had depths on both weapons I’ll look deeper into tonight stepping out for a sec ran some sub skirms for shits and gigs

Double dps sub feels wackkkkkk

Haven’t touched sub in like 3 weeks but

[proven mica]

i have also been playing trickster outlaw. i play with kirr for the full snowflake trifecta it's so fun

[jolly sierra]

got a very crappy streak

it costed me 70 CR

nono

like 86

just because i tried to push forward after a L

so lose 2 in a row

next time, i'll stop after the L

for the entire day

else this will happen

xd

[graceful ravine]

is stealth bug fixed with DS?

[potent pivot]

nop

[graceful ravine]

im surprised assa rogues shifted to DS on murlok for blitz then

[potent pivot]

dmg too good

especially with supercharger

envenom kinda fucks

[graceful ravine]

blitz players overwhelmingly playing 7 cp

[potent pivot]

yeh it hasn't caught on yet

[lucid citrus]

Really? I’m pretty sure it gets updated often

[potent pivot]

I didn’t say that it doesn’t

I’m saying people haven’t tried it and seen the results yet

This happens every time changes happen

Start of a new season/after big changes or tuning etc

[gleaming pawn]

I swear murlok is a curse. Like it’s nice to be able to send people to for reference, and to see what the top are using. But at the same time the top player builds are all so incestuous and they often just copy each other falling back on builds and ideas that worked in the past

And people treat it as gospel

[potent pivot]

Yep

Basically every person on the murlok list

Guess what they do too? Check murlok

[gleaming pawn]

lol yep!

[jolly sierra]

do a pin

[glass hazel]

fi is really nice like 2m+ crits from envenom feel so good

[spring bough]

Sin journey day two has begun

[potent pivot]

About murlok?

[jolly sierra]

ye lol

[potent pivot]

That’s not a bad idea

[safe pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-impossible-marvel-shocked-gif-15104180

[spring bough]

Be like me and be one of the 2/50 people doing something diff on outlaw 😂

[gleaming pawn]

You just need to get Whaaz to play your spec and you’ll no longer be one of 2

Or Nahj I suppose, but I feel like I’ve heard he hates Outlaw very much

[spring bough]

I was laughing last night cause I checked the embelish. And I’m like who’s this one person using a blessed wep grip? Oh yeah I am fk 😂

Gotta move my embelish over to the focusing lens like everyone else lol

[potent pivot]

I think he exclusively hates assa

[marble kelp]

anyone else feel like shuffle mmr is still messed up. I go 5/6 in one game to 1/6 in the next in the 1900-2000 range.

[potent pivot]

I think it’s fine now

It’s just not as inflated as the end of a season would be because we’re still mid season

[marble kelp]

kk

[molten hedge]

He did some assa gameplay/VODs for assa since he works with SkillCapped. That must’ve been torture if that’s true lmaooo.

Nahj has said that even tho he thinks assa is brain dead, it’s still harder than almost every other melee spec in the game

[wary thistle]

Is sub just more traditional rogue in its gameplay?

Assassination as dots is a new one to me, but it's definitely fun

[odd yew]

What are you considering to be "traditional rogue gameplay"?

[golden island]

is elemental focusing better than ascendance?

[graceful ravine]

dead game

[wary thistle]

dunno, kinda generic question, was just skimming and saw the chat about assassination being braindead

[loud ember]

i know this isnt a big deal in the grand scheme of things

but im so hyped rn

hit 2100 for the second season ever

[potent pivot]

Ye

Ascension is kinda ass

[spring bough]

feel yah on this one

[potent pivot]

I’d say rogue in general is difficult for most to get into

[golden island]

need gems tho to proc it right?

[spring bough]

172k garrote tick for a killing blow looks so silly

How often does garrote tick over the 18 seconds. Every two?

[jaunty osprey]

Just at least one

[golden island]

does it work with the blood stone gems?

[spring bough]

Focusing lens does not work with the blood primary gems

I learned that the hard way

[gleaming pawn]

Yes every 2

[spring bough]

That’s silly. And each tick can crit right? Are they all evenly spread on the damage or does it vary

[gleaming pawn]

There should be variance as with all attack spells, but yeah they can crit

Actually let me double check on the variance. Can’t say I’ve actually looked any time in recent memory

Yeah nevermind I was wrong. It does the damage spread evenly

Effected by haste though

[spring bough]

I’m over here like okay 8 hits over the duration. If they are all 212k like this last big crit I had. That’s 1.7m from a garrote lol

Err it’s 9 hits sheesh

2 mil lol

[gleaming pawn]

Yep! Empowered garrotes are nasty when people are grouped up

[spring bough]

yeah idt i can give up alacrity if that effects bleed ticks lol

[gleaming pawn]

Eh it takes a lot of haste to get a full extra tick

It increases the damage per tick, but Haste is generally pretty meh for pvp assa

[spring bough]

i was saying 9 hits cause i mathed 18 / 2 ticks per minute wrong lol

early rating shuffles... slam healer they usually die lol

[jolly sierra]

i got slammed today

in a lobby w a BM, a blood dk and an UH

then in a lobby w an aff and 2 arms warrs

[spring bough]

that sounds awful

Getting a 700k envenom hit on 5 CP followed by a 635k sudden demise is so funny

already 1247 in solo lol

[spring bough]

make that 1625

[jolly sierra]

this dum dum asked me constantly in a cata grim batol hc to use slow poison in erudax

here my reply

[spring bough]

your name is Rogue? lol

[jolly sierra]

Rouge

[spring bough]

Had to triple take that lol

[jolly sierra]

XD

[spring bough]

getting 2.41 mil kingsbane in 2s lol

all on this resto druid. guy dropped off the start of the match LOL

[queen pawn]

Hi

if i create a new toon, will he have 0 catalyst charges or will he have 5-6 or however we re supposed to have right now ?

hopefully i get a clean answer before i boost my toon to lvl 70 hahaha

[broken otter]

99.99% sure you'll have all charges available.

[wary thistle]

Lol "this is heroic, just kill the boss" made me actually chuckle

[safe pelican]

It’s time

[spring bough]

already 1750 as sin after 6 ques LOL

[safe pelican]

Lololol chill out bruv that’s enough pushing for the day 😂

Waiting on blitz Q now

[lime oar]

SS or blitz?

[spring bough]

im just doing solo shuffle as sin for now. havent even had a blitz pop lol

[spring bough]

make that 1847 after 7 ques as assassin LMFAO

28-14 run right now

yall didnt tell me sin was busted like this lmaooooo

[safe pelican]

yes I did lol

[spring bough]

this is cracked

sudden doom popping is so fun lol

1921 already in solo shuffle 8 ques one day lol

[jaunty osprey]

fucking love this envenom shit

[lime oar]

damn i just hit a 6-0 on sin

first time back in SS in weeks

feels good

[jaunty osprey]

lfgggg we love seeing sin rogues succeed

[spring bough]

Supercharger?

I’m getting 1.5m - 1.8m crits without it on envenom it’s hella nice lol

[lime oar]

aand using the build yall pinned

no tea for forced induc

[jaunty osprey]

ya

same, using no tea for forced

1.3m non crit is pretty insane

that's no DFA too

[spring bough]

I keep trying it but finding it hard to drop alacrity, DS, and tea lol

Guess cause I’m new it’s just easier it feels like with tea to save me when I hit too much

[jaunty osprey]

dropping DS for supercharger is pretty much equal in terms of playstyle

should still be good to hit big envenoms with DS

[spring bough]

Hitting 2.4 m envenoms on the dummy with the regular tea build lol

[jaunty osprey]

playing symbolic victory?

dummy damage doesnt mean much unfortunately

i can hit a 5m on it

[spring bough]

I’m playing lingering darkness

[jaunty osprey]

you HARDLY get use out of lingering in arena tbh

i used to play it

but it feels so low value

your only nature damage is kingsbane or envenom

and it's a 2 min cooldown to buff it by 30%

[spring bough]

I guess that makes sense. Doing way more shivs than having death mark fall off

Already 2016 after 10 ques 😂

[stoic spruce]

Any other Outlawers in chat?

Oh good you're here

I need input from a fellow outlaw

[spring bough]

You playing today???

[stoic spruce]

Is this normal?

[safe pelican]

No lol tire debeaded

[spring bough]

You might wanna spray that and light the tire back into the rim

[stoic spruce]

Hm

I blame crackshot

[safe pelican]

lol if youre crazy enough to try what sinnen said you could lmao

[stoic spruce]

I am actually

But I'm at work now. Had to get a ride from my mother.

Also there's a gash on the side of the tire

[spring bough]

Just don’t ignite yourself popo

Oh then it’s cooked

[stoic spruce]

Oh boy do I have a story

Yeah it's donzo

[spring bough]

Maybe some duct tape

[stoic spruce]

Nah I'm gonna take it off and get a new tire tomorrow after work

No sleep for popo B)

I have lit myself on fire with hand sanitizer once

On accident

[fervent cobalt]

Any changes for tmr?

[stoic spruce]

Negative

[fervent cobalt]

Damn

[stoic spruce]

I'm personally scared of changes

Typically means nerfs >.>

[spring bough]

2059 after 11. We on a run boys

[broken otter]

So, I just swapped to Sin for the first time in ages, after playing sub super casually. Using the build in the pins, what is my bread and butter opener.

Like the opener I use 90% of the time, the opener I use on every NPC, etc.

[hidden moth]

@potent pivot in the pins is the first sub talents for arena 2nd for blitz?

[lime oar]

Somethin like cheap, ambush, garrote, rupture, shiv, death mark, envenom, kingsbane

Like full opener?

[broken otter]

Not the burst opener

so no big CDs like mark

More like popping outa stealth, getting bleeds up, etc

[hidden moth]

cheap, gar, bush, rup, cheap, gar, mut, envenom, mark, shiv, kb

cheap gar bush rup cheap gar mut envenom go from there

actually sec

[broken otter]

Word thanks guys

[hidden moth]

depends on haste but at 5% which is what im at

[lime oar]

Does shiv also buff KB first hit?

[hidden moth]

u dont get cheap in time for the supterfuge window

yes

[broken otter]

I'm full mastery

[hidden moth]

u have 2x shiv so shiv then kb then shiv when first shiv is .1-1second from ending

[broken otter]

so 0% haste

lol

[hidden moth]

i have haste from trinket

thats it rest is vers mast

[broken otter]

I have the on use trinket cause I was sub

[hidden moth]

ah

shiv buffs nature and bleed damage by 30% and kb does 326k nature dam instantly according to pvp tooltip (tooltips are wack)

on the pvp training dummy a non crit kb with shiv envenom proc and deathmark up hit for 1.039 mil
on a pvp training dummy a non crit kb without shiv but with envenom proc and deathmark up it hit for 691k

the dummies were both below 35% hp when doing the tests but the data does show that shiv buffs kb initial damage

[hidden moth]

I prefer to use cheap gar bush over cheap bush gar. simply because of the "systematic failure" talent

inches out just a little bit more damage

[lime oar]

u right

[hidden moth]

also people love to insta trinket cheap and get hit with a silence as they do it lol

[left hawk]

Any particular reason why a lot of rogues are only running 2 set conquest pieces?

[hidden moth]

bc sub rogue 4 set is donkey dick

assa uses 4 set and iirc so does outlaw

just sub uses 2 set

[lime oar]

sub runs 2 set and lots of ppl (me) also play assa so im kinda locked into 2 set

[hidden moth]

where i main assa but might try sub soon

[left hawk]

i mean the additional 16% damage for eviscerate doesn't sound awful??

[lime oar]

its nerfed

[left hawk]

is my math just not mathing when it comes to 4 set vs 2set?

ahh okay

[lime oar]

in pvp i think its only like 8

[hidden moth]

its pvp tier set bonus only 50% value

[left hawk]

that would make sense

[hidden moth]

8% more evis dam and losing out on better stats

its also only for 7 seconds after using secret tech which is a cd

[left hawk]

makes sense. Thank you!! I was confused at first but good to know

[hidden moth]

all tier is cut by 50% in pvp (except dh this season for some reason)

but yeah 8% more evis dam for 7 seconds following a 1 min cd or crafted stats to optimize ur damage on all abilites all the time

ight whats the sub opener

[lime oar]

strike, flag, rupture, blades dance badge tea symbols cheap, evis, strike, tech, cheap evis, cheap, evis

[safe pelican]

blitz is so trash bro i cant carry these shit teams people dont even play obj

[spring bough]

Welcome to the world of Warcraft

[lime oar]

Although im not on the cutting edge of what’s the go to build for sub at the moment.

[safe pelican]

the amount of games that i have seen thrown is ridiculous going back to shuff this weekend doing a weekdays blitz thing shuff on weekends

[peak shore]

Can anyone help me understand how to fight vs beast master hunters?

[vocal surge]

lmao

I derped out in a Blitz Arathi game

killed a warrior after a lengthy fight and just forgot to cap the flag

[broken otter]

Lol like a stoner waiting for a Stop Sign to turn green.

[vocal surge]

Not even like a stoner

was busy thinking of 3 other things

Just so used to normal BG Arathi

I thought the flag was still capped

lol

absolutely smoked this poor Outlaw

couldn't even Vanish before he died

found a new tech

with outlaw

Thats so strong lmao

[loud ember]

is the legend achievement (end in top 0.1%) locked to gladiator rank or can any rank get it

because afaik there's like, less gladiators than I have fingers in SS rn

[grave basin]

Welcome back to reality

Also looking at DH discord, seems like something big is happening for them

In the upcoming patch

[stiff mesa]

Ain't no way they're getting a 3rd spec

[neat torrent]

How are outlaw rogues opening in arena? I'm popping adrenaline rush + roll the bones into a cheap shot, blade flurry and then spam BtE as many times as possible.

Is that the right idea?

[safe pelican]

Let’s hear this “ new tech “ sir

[safe pelican]

SMH it hurts , off at 11 today Gunna TRY to push again after just need to get out of this godforsaken brain dead MMR bracket

[vocal surge]

I'll DM it to ya

[sick wasp]

why would u outlaw anyway

play sub trickster or deathstalker

[safe pelican]

Gracias Mi Amigo need it by 11:30Am est 😈🦦

[vocal surge]

Depends on the Hero Talent Tree selected

[stoic spruce]

Also if you have deft talented

[potent pivot]

Yes

You can flurry before opening

[neat torrent]

I'm playing fatebound tree. Just ripped Whaazs talents

[potent pivot]

Try to press it early enough so you don’t hit anyone

[neat torrent]

Doesn't flurry bring u out of stealth though? That would be my absolute ideal opener yeah

[potent pivot]

(Don’t listen to the yellow names in here half of them are fried)

[neat torrent]

Honestly sub is my end goal but I got 1800 on assa now I'm doing it on outlaw then planning to go sub

Seeing it as a little progression game

[vocal surge]

pre-pop Flurry before going into stealth then Stealth -> RTB + AR

[stoic spruce]

If you have deft, what you can do is adr, RtB, SnD, and open with BF

[vocal surge]

and then open with either cheapshot or BTE

[spring bough]

Don’t need to SND anymore cause dispatch applies it GG

[vocal surge]

^

[stoic spruce]

Yeah but it's cdr while stealthed and you don't waste CPs

[spring bough]

Only use it if stuck in roots for CDR lol

[stoic spruce]

When you inevitably bf on opener

[neat torrent]

Not familiar with the rogue tree fully tbh. Need to check what deft actually is 😂. Sounds like it keeps me in stealth when using blade flurry

[vocal surge]

Essentially you get 1 CP per target hit

[stoic spruce]

Blade Flurry CP gen

Yeah

[neat torrent]

Ah

[vocal surge]

on the initial cast

[sick wasp]

if u want my opinion,right now sub isnt hard to execute in arena.If u cant handle deathstalker's mark u can always go trickster.With outlaw u will have issues in shuffles,it doesnt have that much dmg nor it can brawl as it could

[vocal surge]

ezpz 2v3 lmao

[potent pivot]

You press it before going into stealth and it doesn’t lose any duration in stealth

[stoic spruce]

You're talking about me huh :(

[potent pivot]

I said half

[safe pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/anakin-liar-star-wars-lying-gif-8634649

[vocal surge]

https://tenor.com/view/uther-wow-uther-wow-утер-вовутер-gif-24388062

[neat torrent]

OK that's a game changer. I've wasted so many gcds in the opener overthinking getting my buffs and up running

Roll the bones in particular I'm kinda just pressing it when I see it

[potent pivot]

ADR in stealth before you target anyone

[neat torrent]

Yeah I'm popping adr + roll the bones just before I sap

[potent pivot]

ADR will break stealth if you have a target

And are in range

[vocal surge]

how?

[neat torrent]

Are people using weak auras to maintain roll the bones in an efficient way?

[vocal surge]

AR is just a buff

unless you tie it to something like Badge, then it's badge breaking it

[neat torrent]

Or are you really making a judgement call based on the current buffs you have

Shark fin seems like the one that does the most damage

[vocal surge]

if you run Supercharger

you press off CD RTB

without, then you press it when RTB buffs about to fall off

or you want different buffs

[potent pivot]

Not anymore

[neat torrent]

Yeah that's kinda my issue atm. It's just information overload having to keep blade flurry, adrenaline rush and roll the bones up while focusing on also not getting kited haha

That I don't have spare capacity to think about what buff I want to replace

[vocal surge]

Oh

[potent pivot]

Ye most people use just a rtb WA

[vocal surge]

that's the Fatebound talent

lol

[potent pivot]

Ye

They changed it recently

For some stupid reason

[vocal surge]

That messes with Outlaw so much

lol

I see it as a net negative for both PvE and PvP

[potent pivot]

It’s fine as long as you ADR before targeting anything

Doesn’t really change much

[vocal surge]

I guess

[potent pivot]

When they first added it, it was breaking stealth if anything was in range regardless of targeting

So we were just pressing ADR after our first global

[vocal surge]

Suffocating Darkness good enchant :3

[potent pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/alf-what-youre-doing-here-is-wrong-dont-do-that-stop-it-gif-26004330

[potent pivot]

yeah but a lot of people are also dropping the subterfuge row and going for full damage talents now

[stoic spruce]

Fatebound stuff

Edge case

I think is called

[vocal surge]

Yee

I saw it

[orchid plinth]

Regarding the AR stealth thing can`t you just macro some shit like

#showtooltip
/cleartarget [stealth]
/cast Adrenaline Rush
/targetlasttarget [stealth]

Not at gaming pc but something like that should work...?

[safe pelican]

I tried that , that should work i had one like that but never added the target last target

[jaunty osprey]

Something like that should work

[safe pelican]

I just started rtb in stealth , cheap adr> blah blah blah blah

Or just roll in stealth i think it’s more of a big deal in arena

[neat torrent]

yeah that works perfectly just tested it

[orchid plinth]

[safe pelican]

We lit

Outlaw City boyz up +1 on the day

[vocal surge]

Another +1

[grave basin]

What's the lore here

[vocal surge]

Random DK duels me

I completely body him

without taking any damage

and he drops to 0 in seconds

lad logs onto his rogue and copies my build and now im teaching him Outlaw rogue PvP

[orchid plinth]

Wholesome

Instead of threatening to murder you they became your padawan!

[vocal surge]

Ye

Turned him from Fatebound to Trickster

[orchid plinth]

Someone call the tierlist police!

[vocal surge]

X)

He did say my build is hard

Since it's a no Vigor build

No Vigor, no Tea

Just raw 100 energy Outlaw

[spring bough]

Fun times with supercharger

[languid ravine]

Rivals to lovers, it warms my heart and I puked a little in my mouth 7/10 - IGN

but theres too much water

[vocal surge]

Lol

More like teacher and student

[languid ravine]

hot

[candid tide]

does anybody have experience with omnibar?

[potent pivot]

watcha need?

[candid tide]

how do i say..

[vocal ginkgo]

Current stat prio for outlaw?

[candid tide]

like.. does omnibar sort out cooldown in cd remaining cooldown u know

[potent pivot]

!stats

[lethal roost]

These are the recommended stat priorities for each spec in PvP. Please keep in mind that having suboptimal stats on some pieces such as tier set pieces is not the end of the world.

Subtlety: Vers>Mastery>Crit>Haste
Assassination: Vers>Mastery>Crit=/=Haste
Outlaw: Vers>Haste=/=Crit>Mastery
You likely want to stack at least 20% Haste on Outlaw for an extra GCD during ADR/Crackshot windows. Take 'em by Surprise gives you 10% during CS windows, so you only need 10-15% from gear.

[candid tide]

like the ones that is faster bak will sort up front

[vocal surge]

Haste > Crit > Mast for Fatebound
Haste > Mastery > Crit for Trickster

[potent pivot]

most people stick to 10% (in arena scaling)

[candid tide]

instead of everything mixed together

[potent pivot]

like

sorting what's coming off CD next to be first in line?

[candid tide]

yeah i want the ones that has the least remaining cooldown left

[potent pivot]

not sure if that's possible or not

[candid tide]

to be sort out first and then 2nd 3rd least remainnig etc

[potent pivot]

i have a couple different profiles if you want to check them out

[candid tide]

or else its all over the place

likeu see here

counter spell should be sort first and then mindfreeze etc

[potent pivot]

i don't think it has a setting for that

[candid tide]

yeah i couldnt find

[potent pivot]

i mostly just have it set up in a way that different targets are different lines

and i also have certain spells show on the screen when they aren't on CD

[candid tide]

i guess omnicd can help a bit here when it reach 5 sec left and the counter becomes red

but if it lines up it would be bis

[vocal ginkgo]

Is trickster performing well? Thing is I’d like to try outlaw on my rogue but I geared him for sub… still not fully geared so I could make some arrangements

Just don’t wanna lvl another alt since I’m sick of lvling lol

[potent pivot]

trickster isn't inherently bad

but there's only a few people that run it at all

[vocal surge]

Trickster is really burst heavy on opener

If no one pops defensives, you can drop them to 30% HP in 4 GCDs

So even if you do get CC'd, you have that burst factor over and over again

The other benefit of Trickster is +25% crit damage on your builders, +10% crit chance on finishers on Fazed targets (whoever gets hit by your Unseen Blade), and +10% Attack Speed on SND

You also take 5% less damage from your target

And your finisher damage scales really high from Flawless Form

Highest I got the stacks to is 14

Which is +42% Finisher Damage

Also Mastery is x2 more effective on Trickster over Fatebound because it procs twice as often

Rotations are slightly different between the 2 since they have different prios

[potent pivot]

[vocal surge]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/outlaw-rogue-pvp/1971829/11

someone else tested it and realized it does proc twice as often

@spring bough also noted that it proc'd twice as often

Another thing to note

Supercharger synergizes super well with Trickster

Lets you do 15 CP Coup

and 10 CP Killing Sprees

To give you an idea how big that is

15 CPs spent = -15s CD on all the abilities listed under Restless Blades

22.5s with True Bearing

[potent pivot]

hasn't changed the fact that you guys are a couple of the only people playing it

[vocal surge]

Abilities affected by Restless Blades:
Adrenaline Rush (180s CD)
Between the Eyes (45s CD)
Blade Flurry (30s CD)
Blade Rush (45s CD)
Ghostly Strike (90s CD)
Grappling Hook (30s CD)
Keep it Rolling (360s CD)
Killing Spree (90s CD)
Roll the Bones (45s CD)
Sprint (60 to 120s CD)
Vanish (120s CD)

[potent pivot]

i feel like if it was worth it we'd be seeing someone at the top playing it

[proven field]

To be fair, it has happened dozens of times that everyone gets locked into a build out, someone finds a new way and then BOOM everyone realizes and off it goes

[potent pivot]

ye of course

[proven field]

The problem is typically exploration only happens when something is super fun but not rewarding causing people to experiment relentlessly or give up their hobby

[potent pivot]

but this has been for months now

i always say, i don't think it's "bad"

[vocal surge]

Yeee

[potent pivot]

it's a nice build

[vocal surge]

Its what occurred to my friend in S1 of SL

[potent pivot]

can be fun too

[vocal surge]

we found the Drain Life Warlock build

that went meta in S2

but because the S1 build is working well, no one swapped yet

[potent pivot]

generally i just think that outlaw has good rank 1s that test things quite rigorously

trill tests things a LOT

[vocal surge]

Yee

[potent pivot]

just as an example

[vocal surge]

Its pretty easy to miss small things that need to be changed even if you are thorough

For example Mastery on Trickster

I thought Mastery was a dead stat

till I realized the Mastery Notation is wrong on our sheets

[proven field]

Samesies, I went necro Frost Mage in S1 of SL and my guild kept asking me what I was doing and to follow the meta, but it was chunking massive burst - then in S2 a few streamers caught it and boom, it was the only play

[potent pivot]

but if you have like who knows how many rogues

with different set ups

idk

[orchid plinth]

The only GIGA AWC PUMPER LORD that plays it is Niksi

[potent pivot]

pretty sure whaazz has also played outlaw on a mastery rogue, a crit>haste rogue, and now he's testing on a haste>crit rogue

[orchid plinth]

Which is known(?) for playing Hipster Setups TM

[potent pivot]

yeah niksi is known for playing off brand or "worse" things

[proven field]

I've always liked the feeling of full mastery Outlaw.... on dummies

uptime makes it miserable in action

[potent pivot]

it doesn't make sense to me

that trickster would play mast over crit

with the crit damage amp

[orchid plinth]

Outlaw is too meta now they probably leveling a Frost DK or some shit now

[potent pivot]

that particular talent is one of, if not it's most powerful talent

especially since you can CB KS on trickster

[potent pivot]

frost dk can actually still do big dam

it's just not good enough to be a top pick, like for awc etc

[proven field]

Frost DK just needs to be started over - oblit pillar is only play and its such a bummer to wander between goes

[potent pivot]

i just don't like that the crit build is good on it

because the other builds are mastery and so is UH

iirc

[tribal badger]

the only synergy trickster has with mastery is kspree

kspree can proc mastery off every attack so it very very very slightly increases masteries value

is that enough to beat devalued crit due to crit damage nerf? ehh

but i doubt either stat matters enough to damage to make or break u

[potent pivot]

well from what Delusional is saying

unseen blade also procs it

[vocal surge]

^

[tribal badger]

ok 1-2 attacks every 20 seconds having a chance to proc it

when it can proc from any auto and u auto thousands of times a fight

literally does not even move the needle

[vocal surge]

Still doesn't change the fact that when tested between Trickster and Fatebound

Mastery procs x2 as often for Trickster

[tribal badger]

ur maybe gaining 1-2% procs of MG from that

if anything is causing that its kspree

but it shouldnt be 2X as often

[vocal surge]

But it is

[potent pivot]

well the crit damage nerf doesn't really change anything in regards to the value of the talent

[tribal badger]

i mean stat vs stat

not talent vs talent yea

[potent pivot]

ye

[tribal badger]

as always its a race to the bottom for outlaw secondaries

[potent pivot]

the stat is still lower value

[tribal badger]

which dogshit flavor do u wanna take

[potent pivot]

than it was pre nerf

[tribal badger]

i guess i can understand the fun of having a "massive" 15 cp finisher with coup occasionaly

since outlaw doesnt really do big hits

but id probably just play sub if i was trying to burst people

tricksters sustain ST is so much worse then fatebounds

always feels like that matters alot more to me as outlaw

[vocal surge]

I'd say they're on par with each other

for Sustain

[tribal badger]

well in pve (not pvp, so not exactly the same) its 12% behind

[vocal surge]

But the random burst is very noticable

[tribal badger]

so i have difficulty imagining

trickster coming close in sustain to fatebound even in pvp

[vocal surge]

Ye

[jaunty osprey]

Does trickster outlaw have that perma flurry thing

like sub

cause that can be an issue in itself at higher ratings, breaking blinds

[tribal badger]

no it just buffs blade flurry

[jaunty osprey]

ahh ok