pvp

[potent pivot]

But yeah

Day 1 of the patch I was deleting people as sub and assa

[fervent cobalt]

Same

Felt

So amazing

[potent pivot]

5m evis, almost 5m envenoms

[fervent cobalt]

I might try sin

I mostly play 2's and SS

[potent pivot]

With flag stacked I could kill people in 1 cheap shot so effortlessly

[fervent cobalt]

Bro it feels so good

already miss it

[potent pivot]

Rn our max evis is like 2.5-3m

You can do 2m with no flag

So idk

[jaunty osprey]

i wish that envenom shit

was still good

[fervent cobalt]

does nahj not line up Darkest night why his Evis always so low

[jaunty osprey]

didnt get a chance to try it when it was opop

[potent pivot]

He prolly just sends everything without paying attention to it yeah

[fervent cobalt]

Track that shit with WA

[jaunty osprey]

well you get darkest night by just doing the opener properly

[potent pivot]

Ye

[fervent cobalt]

Yea but he never gets huge evis, he just said his highest of the day was 2.3m?

[potent pivot]

And he’s using flag

[fervent cobalt]

I hit 2.6 m yesterday on a feral

[jaunty osprey]

and he probably

[potent pivot]

[hidden moth]

have we actually started getting the good crests in pvp or nah

[fervent cobalt]

yea

[jaunty osprey]

isnt lining up finality evis

with darkest night

[fervent cobalt]

Yea

[jaunty osprey]

i bet you he's using darkest night without finality

[fervent cobalt]

Thats what Im thinking

Need finality

and SOD buff

with even a shiv

[worthy crag]

The number of evis that you cast matters more than finality, though its best to line it up AND cast alot of evis but its not always easy

[jaunty osprey]

it's

super easy to line up your first

darkest night

and finality

[worthy crag]

Unlined evis x3 is still more dmg than lining up perfect 2 finishers

[fervent cobalt]

You dont normally just get to sit on people...

[worthy crag]

Im talking about lining up every finality and darkest night

[fervent cobalt]

Oh yea

[worthy crag]

Esp if theres an hpal on the enemy team

[jaunty osprey]

pvp isnt about your sustained dps

[fervent cobalt]

You gonna not get everyone. but you should at least in every match get a 2m+ evis

[worthy crag]

Ur not gonna go through a whole 3x deathstalker mark just to line it up after they get a bop

[jaunty osprey]

if you can hit a 3.5m crit

that's better than 3x hits of 1.5m

[worthy crag]

Im not talking about sustained dps

[jaunty osprey]

okay well

you literally get

the darkest night and finality

in your opener

[worthy crag]

Im saying ur gonna run into situations where you cant line it up

[jaunty osprey]

you pretty much always get it in your opener

if you don't, you're playing rogue wrong

[worthy crag]

lol ok

I disagree but w.e

[hidden dome]

Low rated Blitz games are wild. It really feels like half of the guys playing below 1.6 hidden are actual new to PvP

It feels like actual random bgs haha

[lone anvil]

What are y'all on about

Here you guys are debating between 3mil eviscerate crits and lining up finishers and I just wish I had a PC that gave me more than 13 framerates (I wish I was exaggerating)

[spring bough]

So whose supercharging yet

[potent pivot]

[fervent cobalt]

Bro i could never play on anything other then 250+ fps

[spring bough]

Doing it as outlaw??

[lone anvil]

I've been gaming on PS4/PS5 last decade and a bunch of people dragged me back to WoW this year after not touching a PC game in 10+ years. And I'm using this dell notebook that I got used on Facebook marketplace 4 years ago for $200 for doing class work lmao

[fervent cobalt]

omg, no wonder

You could build a nice rig for like 700+ dollars

[potent pivot]

I was playing it on every spec

As assa it seems meh now though

[spring bough]

I wish ER said something like “400k physical damage” then I might try that lol

But it’s only 120k right now

[lone anvil]

Yeah I got a car payment, a decent amount of credit card debt and I'm in school and working.

I'm trying to liquidate the home gym I made during COVID to buy a PC. Ive sold like $200 worth of gym shit so far. 30% of the way there

[worthy crag]

At least ur playing an expac where the main hub is dalaran

isnt*

[fervent cobalt]

Bro wtf you need the gym <---- gym bro

Like id give up wow for gym

trying to hit 235 over the winter

[lone anvil]

I still pay for my membership though. And I almost never use the home gym. It's just there for the weekends. My gym closes at 6pm on Sundays

[fervent cobalt]

AHh goods shit

[worthy crag]

Im lucky I have an employer that pays for a gym membership

though its pmuch the most basic plan

[lone anvil]

Hell yeah

[fervent cobalt]

Gym has to be life with all these shit nerfs

[lone anvil]

Nerfs or no nerfs I'm not really good enough at this game to be effected

But I think higher frame rates would make me not hate life so much

[worthy crag]

Until this expac sub used to fulfil both of the "my best spec" and "the spec I have most fun with" roles

Its still my best spec but the second part is sadly no longer true

[pliant mauve]

Anyone know if the weapon enchant is bugged? Hit 1960 and didn’t get shit.

[candid tide]

Cata sub is the real sub

The rogue class has been twisted snd turned alot from then

[lone anvil]

I love Jersey Mike's

But I remember a time when we all thought subway was the epitome of health and wellness

[digital rock]

how can i improve my outlaw v rogue dueling

[candid tide]

Subway is so bad but i still eat it smh

[worthy crag]

It kinda is still, but its far from the best among its alternatives

[digital rock]

outlaw v sin/sub

[lone anvil]

I havent had subway in years there's so many alternatives where I live

[worthy crag]

dont expect to win duels as outlaw

[digital rock]

please answer my question

[lone anvil]

I guess it depends on the market you're in. I can name 10 restaurants in fast casual market more healthy than subway

[worthy crag]

Yeah what I meant is that its still a healthy pick but nowhere even close to being best

or even desirable nowadays

[lone anvil]

I thought all sub rogues ate there

I thought it was the Sub Way

[worthy crag]

Omg ur so funny

Actually "10 other options that are better" applies to sub rogue as well

thats so sad

[lone anvil]

Lol

I haven't played sub since wrath. And I was never a sub main

I mained combat and tried sub a little bit here and there

[lone anvil]

I'm returning and still trying to find what class I like the best

[candid tide]

Combat harp in tbc

[lone anvil]

So far I like r druid the most but it's in a shit place

I may try playing WW idk tbh

Or maybe since I'm bad at the game just play BM hunter

[spring bough]

Pick me pick me…. Outlaw all day

Just need to nuke these sub and sins for duels ez pz 😆

[candid tide]

Play aff for ez rating

Make sure tomhave precog tho

Ull rot everything except a melee lobby

[digital rock]

so like nuke how

they evasion my opener, first vanish usually blind or soemthing

second vanish burst yes

but im bleeding

[candid tide]

Usually in rogue duels the guy that pops evasion first will lose

[digital rock]

what should i be thinking to trinket in a rogue duel

[candid tide]

But sub is king vs other specs in duels also

[potent pivot]

Make sure ur using Veil of Midnight pvp talent

Oh outlaw hmm

In a vacuum I feel like you kinda lose those

[worthy crag]

if ur super serious about rogue duels the first thing you can do is roll orc

then mayyyyybe you have a chance as law

wait nvm, you guys dont have shadowstep anymore

so you have 0 answer to evasion

unless you commit vanish to cheap

[digital rock]

its an a weighted match up i understand that

[worthy crag]

just keyturn and spam /dance and /cheer so they can give you a pity win

[digital rock]

but im beign shit talked by an idiot and i know i can beat him

im losing by maybe 5% hp

without veil of midnight

[worthy crag]

lmao

yeah that rogue is dog

[potent pivot]

Are you using killing spree

[digital rock]

yea

[undone snow]

What is the “standard” opener for this ?

[potent pivot]

It’s similar to what we’ve been doing in TWW

Rupture->sec tech->evis->evis

Or evisx4 if tech is on cd

That lines em up

But depends on secondary openers what u have finality buff on or not

[worthy crag]

it takes at least 9 globals to reach darkest night finisher from a fresh opener, and there's no universe where you get 9 uninterrupted globals in a standard way

and flat out undoable if your target is orc because you have to subtract 1 global per cheap

unless you are literally playing at an mmr where they won't do anything to microcc you during the stungap

SS cheap rupture SS Sectech cheap evis cheap evis

[lime oar]

Agreeing with this dude. You get peeled so damn hard it’s impossible unless u commit duel immediately or immaculate cc and smokebomb etc

[worthy crag]

And that's assuming your target wont fade/scatter/disarm/bladestorm/fear/blink on your first SS into cheap shot

[jaunty osprey]

that's why you don't just open

with that

just let them

DR you

and cc you

when you first come out

legit just

shadowstrike

put up a rupture

even backstab your way to evis to get finality up

[worthy crag]

That's what I do, as I'm sure most other sub rogues as well, but the way you worded it made it sound like "on opener"

[jaunty osprey]

and then when you're a little DR'd just send it

[spring bough]

crackshots go through evasion mostly if not all the time

[worthy crag]

and even then that relies on the enemy team to be dumb enough to waste microcc when the rogue hasnt pressed buttons

but all they need is just a WA alert that goes brrrr when it detects shadow dance/symbols/sblades

[digital rock]

so i should just try to gun spam into evasion

[worthy crag]

or just sblades in general

cuz 0 dmg outside of that

[spring bough]

yeah line up a crackwindow for evasion and spam their ass with the guns

[jaunty osprey]

well i faced kalv at like 2550 mmr earlier this week and he just waits till he got his shit up and then

dueled someone

[digital rock]

ok ty

i try it

[jaunty osprey]

and cheesed em

[spring bough]

defeinitely do NOT press killing spree when evasion is up it will never go

[worthy crag]

Yeah I mean, that's what Ive been talking about tho

and that's not an opener

opener just refers to the first setup coming out of stealth

[jaunty osprey]

i guess i just didntsee it the same way - i consider my opener to actually be when i actually press shit

[potent pivot]

Most people think of it as your first opener of a game yeah

Especially people asking for openers

[jaunty osprey]

cause it's kinda like in keys for example when you're playing other classes and the tank is still gathering packs

you're not sending all of your cds while he's still gathering

you're just fucking around

and then you send your opener

that's kinda the way i saw it

[spring bough]

170 to go then ill get that sweet Grand Marshall title

[worthy crag]

The way I see it, the term was coined at a time when rmx kinda had all their stealths out the gate, either with RMD or shroud (when it was castable in arena) or spectral guise invis, and people strictly referred to the setup coming out of triple stealth as "the opener"

nova deep/rake clone and stun for example

Which also leads to a weird conclusion that sub is kind of a ramp-up spec now

A lot of lower rated rogues still pop blades and double dance out the "opener" and it's kinda laughable like

how one patch can change the spec's desired way of play so much

[outer sky]

how do I get the conq weapons quest on my alt

Its not showing

at th conq vendor

[worthy crag]

Its an achievement now

so just go in and get the 2500 conq

[outer sky]

ah ok

[worthy crag]

They made that change to help the unfortunate souls that did conquest activites without picking up the quest first

[lime oar]

Yeah idk how I’m feeling about it. I think I’ll have a better chance on assa. I just want 1950 for the illusion

Might have to ressurect my arms warr

[worthy crag]

Competitively speaking there won't be a reason to play sub

it just objectively makes your goal harder to obtain, unless you are just better at sub miles ahead of any other spec to make up for it

I'd bet money we won't be seeing a single sub rogue in the future awc

And honestly, that's fine. It's not the first time sub has walked that road

But the biggest problem imo is that it's just boring now

just spinning in my chair staring at the screen while the kidney is on its spiraling animation for 10 more seconds and being energy starved and dance charge starved 50% longer than before

and my eyes flare up once every 90 seconds to setup for sblades/flag

and then it goes back to the blank stare mode for the next 90 seconds

[potent pivot]

Being starved on Dances does feel noticeably worse now

[worthy crag]

Like im fully aware that I can win the game by managing the flag/sblades window and killing off the target, but it doesnt change the fact that im just so bored

[potent pivot]

Imo I think the bigger issue is that we do shit damage with Dance alone

[worthy crag]

there's nothing to do

[potent pivot]

But they’re both major issues

[lime oar]

i was gonna say, make dance great again

and yeah it is super boring.

[surreal barn]

Do you remember DF s1

When they buffed war and sub got fucked

Gonna feel exactly like that

Where we are running around like idiots until 60% dampening to maybe kill something 😂

[potent pivot]

Yep

Unfortunately

[worthy crag]

it still felt nice to have gouge back in such a long time

I dont mind low dmg if it's well compensated by utlity but

[potent pivot]

I wonder if Rotten+Goremaw is going to be the go to now

[worthy crag]

now is something else

[potent pivot]

Nahj seems to think we’ll still be forced to play Flag

[worthy crag]

I think for a 1 pointer it still carries greater value than any other 1 pointers

the problem with goremaw (and generator-focused build in general) is that I have no idea how we'd utilize our hero tree with it

[potent pivot]

Yeah the gameplay just sucks

[worthy crag]

cuz all of our hero trees double down on finisher gameplay

which I have noticed and disliked since day 1

[potent pivot]

Like at least right now, in shuffle as an example, if you can live to the 2nd or 3rd flag you can win

After nerf idk

[worthy crag]

it'll be more at the mercy of your opponent's skill level

[potent pivot]

I almost feel like I’d prefer rotten GM with theifs bargain for 1.2min goes

[worthy crag]

Like if they blow defensives on a irrelevant setup then you can utilize it

if they are human and rotate their 1.5 min trinket between each flag back to back you lose

if you run into an hpal you auto lose unless they take a bathroom break

Oh I heard a few things about fistweavers making a comeback apparently

that's gonna be fun as sub /s

[spring bough]

I was in dungeons on mine leveling up. Healing and damage was so good lol

Their one new hero talent has an aoe heal. Fist weaving lookin like it might be good lol

[worthy crag]

ive seen some sub rogues punish fistweavers in shuffle but I was never able to do it myself

either they are so nearby that any cc on them will break and theres little to no point in dropping smoke bomb, or stunning them will make them transcend behind pillar

and when they are on my team they are useless because they offer very little cc potential

[fervent cobalt]

Which sucks ass

[fervent cobalt]

I was thinking the same but he tested gm and said it sucked but that's just him.

[stoic spruce]

Okay sub rogues let's make a deal

I don't like you and you don't like me

But I have a proposal that would benefit both of us

[worthy crag]

just go orc and you'd auto win against 85% of sub rogues

[hidden dome]

I like our sub brothers more than the assa guys

[stoic spruce]

I take flag off of your hands

And in return

[spring bough]

I like this already

[stoic spruce]

I get shadowblades

[worthy crag]

Yeah I don't think anyone likes flagellation

they just have to use it

wait

so we lose flag period

and you gain blades?

[stoic spruce]

Yes

[worthy crag]

what could possibly go wrong 🤷

[stoic spruce]

I'm taking the burden off your shoulders

Lay your world upon me

[spring bough]

Are you playing supercharger yet

[stoic spruce]

I'm playing Bo6

[potent pivot]

i will flagellate you and steal your pistol

[stoic spruce]

Idk how I feel about Charger yet

[potent pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-quiet-shutup-dwight-gif-9146444

[spring bough]

I’m loving charger

[spring bough]

It’s like I got a choppa

🔫

[stoic spruce]

I don't really like new reroll rules

[spring bough]

I roll every time bones is up and use sleight of hand

Try it

It’s fun lol

[stoic spruce]

Though tbf I've only played like 2 games with it

And then bo6 came out

[spring bough]

Err loaded dice. Whatever the 15% inc to roll is. Feel like it’s better than the 2 roll with adrenaline since you’ll end up rolling that off fast

[hidden dome]

if you're rolling that much anyway

[stoic spruce]

Once the dopamine of mowing down hordes of zombies goes away, I'll give it another go

[hidden dome]

are you playing with the 15% haste buff for your team each time you roll?

or 10%?

[stoic spruce]

Surely you're not rolling out of RP right?

10%

@potent pivot what's the reroll rule for charger?

[potent pivot]

on CD basically

[stoic spruce]

Amazing

[hidden dome]

Not sure about pvp, as I haven't touched outlaw PvP since I got 1.8.
But I have been doing keys, and I usually reroll if I don't have at least 2 rolls up, one of which is good

[stoic spruce]

In that case, Take Your Cut stonks got raised astronomically.

[hidden dome]

They should just re-enable the outlaw bug tbh. Most fun I had with this class in years

not because of the damage, but just always having 6 rolls running felt amazing

I just want a game man 😦

[stoic spruce]

I was thinking of a kir rework where rerolling doesn't make you lose buffs but the buffs that match get extended and it goes on indefinitely

Idk was just an idea

[hidden dome]

That sounds broken in m+, strong in raids and useless in PvP

[stoic spruce]

I didn't explain good enough

[hidden dome]

but I like the concept

[stoic spruce]

Say you have RP and GM right. You roll just RP but you don't lose GM but RPs duration is increased

[hidden dome]

Oh

But the duration never goes above the usual RtB duration

I get it

[stoic spruce]

That way you're not punished for good rng

Yeah

[hidden dome]

Yeah

Would make outlaw more fun. But Blizz doesn't know what to do with outlaw anyway

[spring bough]

Reroll with 5 buffs with bones up 💀

Feels so weird but works so good lol

[stoic spruce]

I'd rather die

[spring bough]

Trust me I cringe lol

But all the DPS and CDR from those supercharged points is so nice

[stoic spruce]

I spose

[hidden dome]

With the bug active you could refresh Keep it Rolling before the 60 second buffs it gave dropped off

because you had extreme CDR

[stoic spruce]

What was the bug again?

This sounds familiar

[hidden dome]

You bugged out the Trickster Capstone Talent and it gave you + 5 CP on every Dispatch

[potent pivot]

you could have +5cp on every finisher as Fatebound

[stoic spruce]

Oh that

[potent pivot]

and just spam bte only

[stoic spruce]

I didn't get to play with it

[hidden dome]

I timed some low keys and it was fun

still waiting to see if they take those runs away

or if they only punish those guys using it to push like crazy

[potent pivot]

prob this

i think a guild or a couple guilds got bans

[stoic spruce]

I don't think they cared about Outlaw#4276 running a +3

[potent pivot]

for raiding with it

and some of the high key doers got banned

if you only did a few low keys ur prob fine

[hidden dome]

Late night Blitz is an experience

nice 2k lobby I got in after just 13 games on my alt

[stoic spruce]

I'd rather camo grind in cod zombies lmaoo

[potent pivot]

i think outlaw is going to be a lot 'more competitive' now

[stoic spruce]

Everytime I think about rogue, I think about how many globals I have to press to do equal or less damage than everyone else

[potent pivot]

it was already really good at the top end

[spring bough]

We press an insane amount of buttons not gonna lie lol

But it’s pumping right now

[stoic spruce]

I like fast but this is extreme lol

Especially with like 9 back to back ace procs

[spring bough]

Yeah it gets fast lol

Vanish resetting BTE one of the greatest changes

[stoic spruce]

Great qol, unfortunately it killed any non-crackshot build

Unless I put all my eggs in the KS basket

[spring bough]

KS is great

[stoic spruce]

It is but that's the only time you do dmg

[spring bough]

Crack windows too. Feel like I’m ripping during them

[stoic spruce]

You technically can play super damp games but that's no fun. May as well play with a tank.

Just as annoying

[hidden dome]

21 rating for winning a game almost 400 rating over my CR

alright blizz

[spring bough]

For blitz? Get used to it lol

Idt I’ve ever got more than 23 rating from a blitz win past 1600 lol

[hidden dome]

ye I am already used to it, it's my 4th char

on my outlaw I once got 94 at 1640 I think

but I was playing 2.3 lobbies by the time I hit 1.8 with him

due to a lucky winstreak

[spring bough]

That’s pretty good for that

[hidden dome]

Ye, but that was also start of season, rating felt more random back then

Now it feels like everything has settled a little bit

[long shore]

anyone have a good bg / world pvp spec to share?

[potent pivot]

for which spec

[long shore]

sub!

[potent pivot]

the builds in the pins should be fine for sub atm

[long shore]

thanks! would u recommend tea forbgs?

[potent pivot]

i think pretty much any combination of the Class tree is fine, you can kinda choose on personal preference, but personally i'd go with the non-tea build for bgs prob

if you're mostly in need of 1v1 burst you won't notice too many energy issues by using the Spec tree energy talents in that non-tea build

you could prolly

[celest tusk]

🫡

Was fun

[potent pivot]

even drop double vanish/subterfuge

for tea+forced induction+deeper strat

in BGs

just depends on how you like to play it

[long shore]

something keeps breaking me out of stealth fck man is it darkest night?!

[lime oar]

my brothers

we are cooked

[potent pivot]

naw it's Singular Focus, if you have rupture ticking on your non-Marked target. in BGs there's a LOT of other classes that have bugs breaking us out of stealth too though.

[lime oar]

but atleast our outlaw amigos are keeping the spirits up

[potent pivot]

there's like 5+ bugs from other classes that break stealth

it's very annoying in BGs

[long shore]

man its so annoying i might go trickster just for BGs then

[long shore]

where do we see this

[potent pivot]

wowhead

[potent pivot]

just don't rupture off targets unless you have to

like if they're stealthies

we aren't using replicating shadows as much now

so it shouldn't be that bad

[long shore]

so the bug only applies if i rupture off targets and not my main kill target with Singular Focus on it right?

[potent pivot]

if you have Rupture on an off target

and Deathstalker's Mark on another target

it also breaks cc so

[long shore]

ah i get it now. the plagued damage..

[potent pivot]

have to be careful CCing Marked targets

but we've all been playing with this since the season started

Trickster's cleave breaks CC as well

"Nimble Flurry"

[gleaming pawn]

really wish Fatebound wasn't shit

the double steps would be nice, and you don't have to worry about anything but doing damage

but it would take at least a 10% throughput bump to be playable vs Deathstalker

[jaunty osprey]

i just broke

my own blind in a shuffle

because of singular focus

tried to do a swap but got disarmed before i could vanish ambush

[potent pivot]

[jaunty osprey]

but

[potent pivot]

it can be fucking annoying

[jaunty osprey]

sereba, val, and i hold the top 6 spots in assa shuffle now

pog

they need to make it apply off of something besides ambush

[potent pivot]

valthepirate?

[jaunty osprey]

for pvp

ye valthepirate

[hardy tinsel]

Is supercharge good in pvp?

For outlaw

[potent pivot]

not many have swapped to it yet, but a few of us think it's good yeah

though you probably drop Tea/Vigor for Supercharger/Forced Induction

instead of the pinned build i have

[jaunty osprey]

do you use it for killing spree or BTE

[potent pivot]

i need to edit the pins

[potent pivot]

both ye

[jaunty osprey]

how hard does it hit for

[potent pivot]

KS can hit 2.5-2.8m ish

[jaunty osprey]

insane, love it

[potent pivot]

bte can hit 1m+

i've had someone tell me their max bte was 1.8m

[jaunty osprey]

imagine back to back bte with it

[potent pivot]

but i haven't seen a screenshot or anything for that yet

yeah

[jaunty osprey]

and rng on coin

[potent pivot]

now that sub is likely in the dumpster i'll prolly play a lot of outlaw this week

need to test trickster law with the new changes

[celest tusk]

i would prefer them saying yeh fuck off flag is pve talent and get it nerfed by 80% than still kinda force us take it

[potent pivot]

they're just fully out of touch with the pvp community man

at this point idek

[celest tusk]

yeh thats kinda sad..there is a massive thread here let me link..https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/rogue-1105-ptr-notes-and-feedback-thread/1946286

if only they could read

[potent pivot]

starting to believe what everyone says, that there's no pvp team period

[celest tusk]

@potent pivot For bgs we shud still sit at flag build and supercharge with subterfuge?

Opinion^

[potent pivot]

huh

you're asking if you should still use Flag+Supercharge+Subterfuge?

i think that's fine

it's either no Vigor/Tea or no Subt/Vanish

both are fine really

[celest tusk]

I use this for blitz bg and i will be still using it after all ig.. CUQAA0tw2gAD7pPTLoW5IGZDeAAMz2MAAAAAAMbzMzy0A8AzwYYmxMzMzMmtZbmZssNMDzMGwyYAAAAYGmhFz2MmtZYswwyMbTL0yswYA

@potent pivot But flag nerf will hurt more the arena players sadly.

[potent pivot]

idk man

kinda crazy Flag has been fine for the past almost 2 fucking years

now after they remove Dust they decide to nerf it by 50%

it's a fucking joke

[celest tusk]

yeh its whatever at this point..random changes...plus burst now will fall off a cliff..u know that something is wrong behind the pvp tuning when every week you see buffs then revert them back to trash next week..its like so we gonna make em good for 1 week then next week they are gettin killed

[potent pivot]

Yeah it’s been legit all over the place this expansion

I think the hero trees made it even harder for them to balance

As a rogue I very much dislike this expansion feature

I love playing my DK

[orchid plinth]

Hero trees are just there to break CC

[potent pivot]

Legit

Let me just opt out of this shit

[celest tusk]

For sure they did but once u decide to add those hero tree and you are also forced to balance it no matter what..that is your damn job anyways..ur gettin paid for it..instead every week we gettin random changes and these can either kill a spec of make it overpowered af.

like they are not gettin millions already xD

[potent pivot]

Idk man I think they try

[celest tusk]

pretty sure they let 2 guys in the office and let em decide the state of the game xD

[potent pivot]

But balancing this game is just impossible let’s be real

There’s too many aspects

[orchid plinth]

To me it's not even balance (I mean it it but...) it's that some changes feel very out of touch with the class

[potent pivot]

Raid/m+/pvp
ST/AoE/cleave

Every spec has 30 talents plus hero trees

[potent pivot]

Yeah I agree

They locked us into playing supercharger+flag

Now they nerf flag

[celest tusk]

either u instant give us more options now or just dont nerf flag.

[potent pivot]

So now literally any build without supercharger is dead in the water

[celest tusk]

thats my opinion.

[potent pivot]

With this nerf Flag should have been made a builder and given more Flag damage

[celest tusk]

do not fuckin touch things if you are not ready to take action and make changes once you touch something.

[potent pivot]

Flag itself doesn’t hit for shit

[celest tusk]

does not even give cb

cp

[potent pivot]

Ye that’s why I said they should’ve made it a builder

[celest tusk]

^^

[potent pivot]

So builder builds would buff it

Like Rotten

And it’d give full cp during Blades

So it doesn’t ruin the flow of the spec as much

But nope instead let’s just nerf the mastery in half lolkthxbye

[celest tusk]

u see for example u just made a feedback..something that could work..how fukin hard is for them to make ideas instead of just focusing in 1 talent and lazy nerf it ?

it is their job after all.

[potent pivot]

Idk they need to see how it performs with the nerf I guess

Before making more changes (if that ever happens)

[celest tusk]

always that^

[potent pivot]

It definitely wasn’t unavoidable damage

[celest tusk]

its a cucle

[potent pivot]

Already

[celest tusk]

cycle

if it performs bad

they will prob buff us..then we will end up being good

then again nerf

etc etc

xD

[potent pivot]

That’s always been the give and take with sub I guess

[celest tusk]

Unfort^

[potent pivot]

If it’s good everyone complains like it’s never bad

[celest tusk]

bruh lets be real

i truly believe most ppl suck at sub

its not u insta pick it

[potent pivot]

But feral gets a -5% on Wincarn

[celest tusk]

and ur doin ok like fury warrs or smthng

[potent pivot]

[celest tusk]

so in order for everyone to complain

are u capable to pick up the class and do good?most are not

i put big effort in order to play sub at decent level

[celest tusk]

feral rn is at its own dimension out of this one we are now xD

they will kill feral soon though

@potent pivot Imagine if they reworked Flagellation so it generate combo points and also make it work like it did in Shadowlands with the conduit instead of giving mastery. So much better than it is now

[potent pivot]

it's been kinda lame to feel forced to play another class entirely for your team

[celest tusk]

less clunky too.

[potent pivot]

i was hopeful with the new changes

because i already got a feral ready

but wanted to play rogue

[potent pivot]

which conduit

[solar glacier]

Its literally impossible those changes stay without compensation in the Next 1-2 weeks right

😎

[potent pivot]

idk last time sub was bad it stayed bad for quite a while

like still viable up to a point

[celest tusk]

lashing scars venthyr potency

[potent pivot]

but when it comes to pushing r1 range in it's current state

it's prolly dead

[orchid plinth]

They made the Flag icon gray colored this patch to showcase it's not usable

[celest tusk]

HAHA ^^

[celest tusk]

they calculated everything.

gray colored flag icon change we shud insta understand soon dead.

[potent pivot]

i guess it's time to level a warrior

[orchid plinth]

I don't have an alt yet and I am struggling to decide. I always loved mages but never played one. I usually alt warrior... fun to have another melee that is more centered around... BE IN FIGHT DEAL DAMAGE.

When will Arms be back?

[potent pivot]

both Arms and Fury are getting big buffs tomorrow

Feral is fun, DK is fun, Warr is fun

the only melee that i've tried and did not like that much was DH

i've never tried to pvp as Ret or WW

[orchid plinth]

Honestly I should try to play some Assa as well. I've only queued Sub in Blitz and Shuffle. That will almost feel like an alt.

[potent pivot]

assa is great

has been my most played rogue spec i think

[celest tusk]

one of th most boring experience i had as assa

outlaw i think its very fun to play

i was disgusted when i saw acerbgs streamer as assa doin the bfa rotation for aoe spam and bleeds into the carts bg xD..

[potent pivot]

well

it's very annoying that FoK is better than Mut even in arena

but assa's AoE in team fights is very strong

[celest tusk]

its crazy strong

yeh

[potent pivot]

i just wish Mut wasn't so terrible

it's like backstab terrible

[celest tusk]

i just love for example how creative can sub be in bg content so no chance ill ever play assa..maybe outlaw is close to sub..but yeh in terms of strong assa is pretty big rn

[potent pivot]

i think assa is close to equal to sub in BGs now

since Dust is gone

outlaw is starting to become the new FC which is hilarous

[celest tusk]

i truly believe they work completely diff in bg environment..but assa if not equal to sub he got so close...yeh the 4 grapples from law is funny xD

i was watchin avidance for a while..idk this guy as sub has nevermissplayed anytime i watch his stream..either he had to do vs assa or subs he was perma outplay everyone..crazy

guy just show the full potential of sub xD

[earnest forge]

Are they really buffing disc in PvP too with the patch? x.x

[potent pivot]

apparently so yeah

[earnest forge]

Impressive work there Blizz

[celest tusk]

as always^

[earnest forge]

At least they did a good change and are increasing the amount of anniversary tokens from weekly shit

[potent pivot]

i should prolly get started on farming that shit huh

[celest tusk]

Feral 5% nerf(the amount of shit that ferals gets away with blows my mind)elem nerfs even reverted while they cud zero people in accident in a global..so feral is unerfable..the new rogue ig..just reroll to feral everyone(making feral rn)

https://tenor.com/view/peace-out-im-out-bye-gif-14304356

[potent pivot]

well the ele thing was a bug

the bug was fixed

[celest tusk]

still one shottin ppl(whazz and thesia were gettin instant deleted yesterday lmao)..but yeh lets revert some of the nerfs and discuss what can be done..rogue changes(kill flag).

[earnest forge]

Im levelling muy druid ngl

But thats me with the pvp alt army

@potent pivot with these changes I think Ill get the 100 mark this week, had 47 already

So I get daily quests on top of weeklies to force me to do even more unwanted shit for some rewards I dont even care that much outside of the transmog sets

[wintry dew]

https://www.wowhead.com/de/news/massive-increase-to-bronze-celebration-token-on-weekly-reset-349291

The event just got way better

From reset onwards, we'll be getting everything asap

[potent pivot]

ohh that's more than i expected

i saw that they buffed it but didn't check to see how much

[wintry dew]

It's really A LOT

[potent pivot]

so now the only thing that takes any REAL effort is getting the mount right?

this one

[wintry dew]

Not even that, you can get the mount extremely fast, the achievement that takes the most time is the one where you have to interact with story time 50 times

[potent pivot]

oh really

[wintry dew]

That one requires multiple stories to complete

I finished the achievement day 1
All the achievements are pretty easy, there are already YouTube guides for it

[potent pivot]

ooh

i'm so bad at easy stuff lmao

like keeping track of achievements and yadayada

[wintry dew]

Since tmog is my jam, I have to keep track of this kind of stuff

So I get you

[potent pivot]

did they bring back that one dragon mount

the old anniversary one

[wintry dew]

It drops from doomwalker

The world boss below caverns of time

You can just log a bunch of Alts and kill it

[potent pivot]

that's the Azure one right

wasn't there a red one back in the day

or am i trippin

[azure rapids]

Flagellation 50% less mastery in pvp

[tawdry wraith]

Thats on the vendor

Iirc

Or was it the dark one

[potent pivot]

ye but it also drops from Doomwalker

[tawdry wraith]

Doomwalker drops the blue one

The vendor has the other version

[potent pivot]

that's on the vendor

[tawdry wraith]

Hu, I'm pretty sure it was the other one last time I checked

Maybe it displayed it wrong for me

[potent pivot]

well i'm seeing online that Obsidian Worldbreaker is also obtainable from the event

[tawdry wraith]

Ye thats the vendor I meant

[potent pivot]

yeah i just found it

so 20 tokens for Obsidian, 5k badges for Azure

nice

i guess it's time to start no lifing this shit

[tawdry wraith]

Ive been kinda lazy so far, but with the increase in tokens it might be fairly easy. I only need like 140 for everything I personally want

[potent pivot]

yeah the increase should make it pretty easy

i want the 2 old dragon mounts, the achievement mount, and all the tier2 remakes

other than those i don't think i care much

[tawdry wraith]

I wont get all t2s, probably only rogue dk monk and shaman

Dont really like most of them

Or atleast wont use them anyways

[potent pivot]

i'm only planning on grabbing them because i assume they won't be obtainable again for a long time

like the obsidian worldbreaker hasn't been easily obtainable for like 10 years or something

except maybe from the BMAH, i think?

@wintry dew

did you see the new Spectral Tiger?

[wintry dew]

YEP

[potent pivot]

$265 USD for a flying Spectral Tiger for CLASSIC in CN servers

[wintry dew]

Chinese players love gacha

[wintry dew]

With the increase on token rewards next reset you'll be able to buy fucking everything

Just get them all

[potent pivot]

do you remember what the achieve is called

for the blue birdy

[wintry dew]

Anniversary something.
Just open achievements panel ---> world events ---> anniversary

[potent pivot]

nvm i found it :p

[wintry dew]

Ez

[potent pivot]

this mount mania thing

isn't starting

[wintry dew]

It's on a timer

You can mouse over top of the screen and it will say roughly how long to start

[potent pivot]

ahhhh

[tranquil jay]

Assa is same full mastery as sub right?

I never played assa or outlaw but seems like i have to

[potent pivot]

mostly yeah

can also use 4p tho

[tranquil jay]

Assa might be op, but its feels like just flops into cleaves and feral comps

Which are everywhere

[potent pivot]

it's good into melee cleave

because you can cleave your bleeds easier

it feels bad into some caster cleaves

like frost/bm

[celest tusk]

@potent pivot Do you know btw if there is a weak aura that can put arrows in teammates in blitz bg for example?i saw it in a stream but cant remember

[potent pivot]

betterblizzframes/betterblizzplates has that function

[celest tusk]

oh

[potent pivot]

idk how it works in BGs

there's also WAs that do that too

[celest tusk]

i tried once but it wont work in bgs

weak aura i mean.

maybe it breaks

[potent pivot]

yeah the WAs prolly aren't set up for it

[celest tusk]

cuz of nameplates being protected

[potent pivot]

there's prolly a setting for it in BBF

[celest tusk]

in competitive content or smthng

hm

[potent pivot]

the WAs work in arena

[celest tusk]

so maybe it does not apply in bgs or need specific setup to add or enable

[potent pivot]

mhmm

WAs are made for very specific things

i'd just get BBF

its very cusomizable

it's like the Plater of pvp

[celest tusk]

well im used to bajheera threatplates lmao

but i see everyone usin

bbf

legit

[potent pivot]

ye

[celest tusk]

i should do it.

[potent pivot]

it's really become the new default for pvp

[celest tusk]

ur right yes.

[potent pivot]

i like how Kalv's are setup

they look nice

[celest tusk]

i am sub there

i was about to download it haha

but

maybe ill go mysticals bff import cuz of bg content

i they they are better setup for that

or idk if it matters

[potent pivot]

yeh it doesn't matter which you use

[celest tusk]

oh k

[potent pivot]

you can customize it more yourself

like i use the Magnusz profile it comes with

but i also tweaked it for myself

[celest tusk]

hmm kk.

[tawdry wraith]

But its time invested that I could spend on something else

[narrow tangle]

feral is my fav rogue spec

[upper tree]

is there a good explanation vid to how to get these massive 5m eviscerates as sub? like i feel i do it(3 mil max) on random. Ive seen videos explaining their rotation, but the part where they build up and why they switch target to do that evisc? i dont get it and i wont find a guide that explains how it works to get the burstiest possible opener

[potent pivot]

the 5m evis seemed to be a bug or something

and now that they're nerfing Flag by 50% it's definitely not going to be possible

we were only able to hit 5m evis day 1/2 of the patch

so rn max 3m sounds about right

and it's about to be like 2.5m

after reset

[upper tree]

Thanks!

[potent pivot]

np

[stoic spruce]

more UI than game

[potent pivot]

that's only the top left corner lol

much better than his shit used to be

he used to have that addon that showed every spec's CDs above their plate

shit is god awful lmao

[orchid plinth]

All UIs are god awful it's a very personal thing

WoW is becoming more and more play the UI instead of the game imo, which is fine but

Sometimes when I watch Mes for example I can't even see the game

Whaazz played with 2x Arena frames for how many years??

You get used to your own chaos

Hell some people playing M+ even has a cross in the middle of their screen just to say "lmao here's your character"

[potent pivot]

Those are unironically goated for PvE lool

I used one back when I raided

[orchid plinth]

Yeah I am just saying that there is more playing the UI instead of "the game" (what that even is?)

My screen has a built in cross you can add like a "no scope crosshair"

[potent pivot]

Yeah I get what you mean

[orchid plinth]

I think WoW addons is one of the greatest things about WoW but also one of the worst. It's really hard to.. Balance?

It's a great accessibility feature too

Like... Can you even play Outlaw without addons?

Fucking Fury + PHD spec

[celest tusk]

@potent pivot tested bff and also enabled the party pointer option sadly it wont work in bgs

[orchid plinth]

BetterBlizzPlates? Party pointer works in BGs.

There are just some overlapping settings and you need to make sure you do it right, can be a bit hard at first.

[celest tusk]

i did enabled the option

at betterblizzplates

party pointer..

[orchid plinth]

First you enable it in the normal settings, then you go to advanced and configure it a bit more

[celest tusk]

oh wait

i see now at advanced there is an option for BG

ty ty

[orchid plinth]

Generally if you want to tinker with a setting you enable it in the first basic config, then go to the advanced settings and you can do a lot more!

[celest tusk]

Understood.

Just used bbf and bbp i feel kinda lost cuz i was using bajheera's threatplates but i hope ill get used to it xD

@orchid plinth last question..i perma get in my chat history id notification spells either for deathstalker marks etc etc..been spammed perma..any way i can hide this?

[orchid plinth]

I don't know exactly but there is a setting, I think in BetterBlizzFrames to show SpellIDs on hover.

Might be in the general settings or the Misc ones

[celest tusk]

hmm ok ill go check about this

[potent pivot]

There’s also a keybind for hiding buffs/debuffs so that you never see them again

You can filter out a lot of bullshit

I think it’s ctrl+alt+right click the buff/debuff

You can make things glow for pandemic, glow just for emphasis, or glow for debuffs from other players on the plates

It’s actually kinda wild how much you can do with it

[orchid plinth]

I thing I was wondering but haven't looked into: is it BetterBlizzFrames that also goes the green glow on your own buffs?

Like, buffs at the minimap, not TargetFrame etc.

[potent pivot]

Ya

[orchid plinth]

So if I add Shadowdance to the Whitelist and flag it as important it will glow? Or is it a separate setting for my own buffs?

[potent pivot]

I have my plates set up so that CC on my target from other players glows orange

And my inportant debuffs like Kingsbane glows green on plates

[potent pivot]

Ye should work

[narrow tangle]

a simple weakaura would be enough imo

[potent pivot]

You only really need a WA for rtb

And even that now is kinda just press on CD

[celest tusk]

Check your pm whenever you can,thank you.

[shadow epoch]

is 4 set worth it for sub

[mint mauve]

New rogue after tryng out all classes for a month(mostly), kinda proud of stalking people and succesfully escaping on escapes ❤️

I don't think I ever had so much fun in pvp

How is rogue so unpopular though, you have so much bs to play with?

[old dome]

Could someone please elaborate the difference btw the 2 pinned sub specs?

[potent pivot]

It’s okay now that we’re running Flag because you should be able to have sec tech for every big go

[potent pivot]

One takes Tea/Vigor, and one doesn’t. The one that doesn’t take Tea/Vigor takes some energy talents in the spec tree.

[old dome]

Tyvm for answering!

[earnest forge]

harder to play on average than other mongomelees, esp. feral druid rn

[jolly sierra]

feral exists

[safe pelican]

Smart

[orchid plinth]

Is Feral "mongomelee" though? Sure maybe dealing damage but all the other aspects? When to switch form, playing defensive, offensive, cloning, etc? I feel like there are other melee that is way easier, no?

[mint mauve]

What is mongomelee? 😆

[earnest forge]

all the melee classes that spam their pve rotation and destroy cleaving aoe

[mint mauve]

Ah, only annoying classes I find are hunter and paladin

idk how to play around paladin honestly

[earnest forge]

supposedly you force deffensives without investing all your stuff, then repeat after bubble and bop and pray he forgets about lay on hands and damage reductions while he's destroying everyone in aoe

[long shore]

I can't get used to no subterfuge in world PvP. I feel like having vanish heal and double vanish is too good in disengaging

Still using the double vanish build in the pins

[earnest forge]

is people not running subterfuge? o.o

[mint mauve]

Are there ways to tweak stuff for identifying shadowstep targets, like in range=green, out of range =red

like if you want to do a quick shadowstep kill and get out

[safe pelican]

Would most likely be a WA based on the same parameters of the sap WA but just switch the trigger to shadow step instead and adjust should be all you need

[mint mauve]

stupid question inc, what is WA?

[safe pelican]

Weak Aura, it’s an add on and possibly the best add on outside of gladius / gladiusex… download it and get familiar at work rn just checking in but someone should be able to get you a pack to get you started with it.

[mint mauve]

ahhh right

yea been drowning in it for the last 2 days

[safe pelican]

Keep drowning it’ll pay off learn how to make your own WA’s then it’ll be game changing

[mint mauve]

yea makes sense to make your own I guess

[nova viper]

What a fun

[earnest forge]

wtf is going on there

someone forgot a pvp aura nerf on a tank spell?

[potent pivot]

Yeah it’s almost kinda needed to do enough damage on sub

[potent pivot]

Probably some world pvp bug from hitting a critter or some random bug in general

[potent pivot]

This was in wpvp?

[earnest forge]

but that makes it so the only damage windows are shadowdance with thistle?

and losing double vanish pain

unless im dumb, which could be

[potent pivot]

Subterfuge windows are more just CC access as sub

There’s not enough damage modifiers

[earnest forge]

yeh, spam cc into shadowdance

and yeh, kinda lacking dmg to give up for the cc apparently

[potent pivot]

Some people were already dropping it for more damage

Now with flag getting nerfed I kinda suspect more will

[earnest forge]

and hows it feeling?

[potent pivot]

You just take Fade to Nothing instead of Cloaked in Shadows I think

That’s also a swap some people have been making

[earnest forge]

meh

a swap most people is doing is go feral and I can see why

Im not enjoying assa with all the paladins and sub is weird.

and outlaw would require a new char pretty much gearing wise lmao

[potent pivot]

Yep

[elder rapids]

I mean sub is still going to hit like a truck even with the 50% nerf, so I wouldn't worry about being able to 100 - 0 someone in an effective stunlock

[potent pivot]

Not a lot of people play rogue in general

Lots of effort for very little result

[earnest forge]

who are you doing that 100-0?

some lvl 75 doing gathering?

[potent pivot]

Define a truck

[elder rapids]

most people I am matched against! Tend to force defensives with minimal stun DRs and then poof

[sonic siren]

Will we still play flag with the Nerf?

[potent pivot]

Idk man

[potent pivot]

Maybe yeah

Still kinda forced to

[earnest forge]

most people im matched against outdamage me and require half the working braincells

cc and setup is cool if the dmg isnt lacking

[sonic siren]

Is someone playing Sin with supercharged Points?

[earnest forge]

may aswell get a single 5 secs stun if I can par it with proper burst

[elder rapids]

👍

[potent pivot]

Doesn’t seem like it. It’s not doing the same damage it was day 1 of patch

[sonic siren]

On the top Leader Board no one seems to play it

[potent pivot]

It’s already not doing that much dmg tbh. 3m evis if all the stars align

[old dome]

NoTrickz can I ask you another question regarding the 2 sub specs?

[potent pivot]

Sure

[old dome]

I understand the difference (Tea and Vig). Would you say one is better overall? Or one is better for AoE/ST, arena or blitz?

[potent pivot]

Nah I don’t think either is inherently better than the other for different content atm. Just preference.

[elder rapids]

Tea, Vig & Super is what I'm playing, dropping the vanish line

[earnest forge]

and dont you miss the double vanish and heal

[old dome]

Thanks! Im just getting into rog again after a hiatous.

[elder rapids]

I mean I miss it for sure, but if you're going to 100-0, then that's the play. Like others have said, the damage is weak, but you can give up your dual vanish, subt and heal for more output

[potent pivot]

I just don’t think you’re going to 100-0 someone in a higher rated arena with the nerf

That’d depend a lot on the other team fucking up and overlapping defensives or trinkets etc

[nova viper]

Arena

xD

[elder rapids]

I'll post a vod on reset! Remind me!

[potent pivot]

Something is probably bugged then lmao

[solar glacier]

i really love how some blitz games are doomed from the start. Real coinflip sometimes. Just had an eots after a 4 game losing streak of which i'd say all of them were stomps i couldn't do much about, already dropping from 2.5mmr to 2.2. My Team lost early and were deffing our base 7v4. I inc the enemy side, they are kind of brainafk and i just smoke cap + kill the flag carry with 15 stacks while i'm at it. However my team somehow manages to fkin lose our base 7v4 and they get the big cap 😄 that's so wild

also sometimes in the prior losses e.g. silvershard i got most offcarts for our team but they just got fkin wiped at lava over and over again in a matter of seconds because one of our healers was healing as much as an enhancer shaman. I can't grasp how those people even get into those lobbies to begin with.

here i am now after 5 losses with 36-22 win / loss just to inspect a guy next to me in my team who is 36-34 and has 150 CR more. Huh?

[lone anvil]

I hate when I get a Gilneas or something and my entire team wants to engage in a 6v6 with the enemy team on a base instead of like 4v6ing and having 2 people rotate to a less guarded point.

Like even if you manage to kill all of them in the 6v6, how long is that going to take lol? As soon as I get in games where my team is just rolling around as a giant death ball I know it's over before it begins

[solar glacier]

also if you are falling behind like in EOTS and the enemy team has 1 base, you have 1 base, but they have the flag you are in a losing position and you HAVE to do something about it

[viscid dagger]

How’s assassination vs sub now in 11.0.5?

[potent pivot]

Pretty good

Possibly better with today’s nerf

[solar glacier]

certainly*

[potent pivot]

Nah I wouldn’t say that just yet

[waxen meteor]

I said the same thing last week too :))))))

It's a real luck check how many bozos you end up with

[orchid plinth]

I mean that's just the nature of SoloQ games. At least in Shuffle it evens out since you play with and against everyone!

[solar glacier]

but WoW Blitz is nothing like other soloQ games

you cant, like in League of Legends, 10-0 a lane and be so fed to 1v3 every game

everybody has the same gear, you can outplay at most in a 1v2 but everything else it's just doomed

and some bgs you cant even do that, let's say silvershard mines, your team can be wiped off in a 7v6 and lose all lava carts meanwhile they have 2 people that contest offcarts against you. Not much u can do if they dont play bad

they just win by putting 2 ppl in the cart, you cant even take it unless you 1v2 kill one guy

fair enough rogue is a class that can massively outplay 1v2s but if people are in an evened skill area like u are, you cant

[pale storm]

You can definitely get some horrible Q rng when solo Qing blitz. Yesterday got a flag map with a disc and hpal on my team vs a monk and pres evoker. 2 mobile FC healers. A lot of people also just don’t know how to play blitz, it’s a lot different to rbg/normal maps.

[safe pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/smart-car-little-tikes-driving-gif-13671879

Behold the “ truck “

[spring bough]

Outlaw >>>>>>

[mint mauve]

How does human racial interact with pvp trinkets? Like, does it reduce stun cd or?

Wondering if I should do a race change for my human rogue

[surreal barn]

It goes on a 1.5 min cd

So you can essentially use trinket 30 secs earlier the second go around

[orchid plinth]

If you want to be a tierlist gamer than Nelf is considered the best racial with the exception of maybe Orc if you only play Sub.

[surreal barn]

It’s good but not meld good

[safe pelican]

Assa>>>>🦦

[wintry dew]

Dying>>>>>>

[waxen meteor]

go change

human rogue was a 2009 thing

[mint mauve]

so NE?

[waxen meteor]

90 seconds share CD and no PvE Trinket just makes human racial almost irrelevant for pvp

if you do sin, then yeah

if you do sub, debatable

[mint mauve]

I play sub...

why is it different for sub? more vanishes making it less impactful?

[waxen meteor]

then orc is a solid option too

sub has access to dance, you don't need vanish offensively that much

[potent pivot]

Human is fine for sub

[gusty hedge]

just lvl another rogue(alt)
Lvling too EZ right now

[mint mauve]

Didn't they buff timewalking hp?

rip

[potent pivot]

It’s still pretty quick to level I think

[safe pelican]

Yea i feel like if you’re a die hard rogue main you should have all 3

[mint mauve]

feel like i should make a rogue for every race

and get it over with

[potent pivot]

I read somewhere you can get a max of 85% bonus exp somehow

[waxen meteor]

you better just pay for the small $ than wasting time tbh

[gusty hedge]

thats the spirit

[waxen meteor]

worst case you just pay and change race back

just my personal 2 cent...

[potent pivot]

Yeah let’s pay twice for something that takes a couple hours

[mint mauve]

ah yea they're like 35 euro for 3 changes

[potent pivot]

[waxen meteor]

i feel having more than 2 rogues is a bit weird...

[potent pivot]

There’s people with 4

I’ve got 3

[waxen meteor]

that's fine, you have time

[gusty hedge]

that wild! 55% currntly would be nice to have 85

[potent pivot]

N elf outlaw, n elf assa, and an orc

[waxen meteor]

i think for most, just a few dollars is completely fine

probably a bit more than a few dollars, but quite acceptable range, at least for me

[mint mauve]

gnome seems nice too though

[gusty hedge]

i have like 12 & 6 at max lvl

[mint mauve]

or not?

idk

[safe pelican]

Human is good imo
With that double trinket that’s op in arena as a rogue ppl can’t wait to cc you

Nelf is good if you play around
Meld like you should for any spec i would think since they all benefit from restealths

I main orc on my assa rogue cause i play aggressive and i don’t like being stopped during my goes

I truly think that the racial
Your choose should fit your play style but nelf & orc being the top two choices

[potent pivot]

Less than most

[waxen meteor]

than leveling to max, get honor gear than farm conquest/craft blabla again

I would surely not do that myself

[potent pivot]

It takes a couple hours to level and a couple hours to gear rn

[mint mauve]

@waxen meteor god..you're right

[potent pivot]

Fastest it’s ever been

[mint mauve]

getting green gear is a pain with 550 rating stuff

[waxen meteor]

it's just a preference thing, no right or wrong

[potent pivot]

Ye I just think you’re over stating the effort it takes a lil bit is all

Really shouldn’t worry about race so much in the first place

But ye

[safe pelican]

Leveling is crazy fast rn not paying for shit but a wow token cause i work too much to grind gold ,

Gear off epic bgs and bloody tokens doesn’t take that long should take 2-3 days with no grass touching

[mint mauve]

yea i wasnt worrying, but yea, its hard not to optimize when the ball starts rolling

especially against polymages

[waxen meteor]

what does orce do to avoid 'being stopped during my goes....'

the stun -%?

[potent pivot]

If you’re human you’re fine, seriously

[gusty hedge]

full gear in few hours or less if u wpvp and grab crates(assuming alliance)

[safe pelican]

Yes

Less stun time means more up time

[waxen meteor]

i don't think it matters that much in your go.... but anyway....

i think NE is way more aggressive

[mint mauve]

but, human racial gives trinkets lower cd or?

wowhead doesnt indicate much
?

[potent pivot]

Naw the actual racial ability breaks stuns

[waxen meteor]

it doesn't, it only benefits you from the 90 seconds to 120 second mark

so you can use human racial on first stun on you

and between 90 sec - 120 sec

you have another trinket and others don't

oh, healers do too

[mint mauve]

oh thats neat, those cd's sync with shadow veil and such

[waxen meteor]

so you have another trinket over another dps

imo, it's not so much

especially that go can pair with duel in a way

[mint mauve]

can i read the specifics of the interaction somewhere?

[waxen meteor]

now that with 90 seconds shadow blade, it might be better to avoid cc from others to stop your next shadow blade go

[potent pivot]

It just shares a CD with pvp trinket

[waxen meteor]

there's nothing more to read

[safe pelican]

Nelf definitely benefits from all spec I just rather be stunned less personally for how i play, meld also bugs often.

In a perfect world of min maxing yea Nelf for restealth benefits but the other two races are viable given playstyle that’s what I’m saying

[mint mauve]

ah

[waxen meteor]

it's almost same as Undead

undead shares 30 seconds CD

on fear

[safe pelican]

Or we wouldn’t even be having this discussion lol

[potent pivot]

If you press human racial it puts your pvp trinket on 90s CD, so instead of every 2 min you can break CC every 90s

[mint mauve]

ah, well, thats smth

i guess I can open more times in bg's then

[potent pivot]

Human also gets a decent chunk of secondary stats, less important but it’s still something

[waxen meteor]

what i am trying to say is 10% less stun doesn't get you much more up time during your go...

[mint mauve]

i imagine that 2% scales a lot better with the purple pvp gear

void elf has a chance for 5% more dmg but I guess its not dependable

[waxen meteor]

you could probably try to stay with human for sub, especially after 90 seconds shadow blade now

just to avoid being stopped by sidebar stuns in your second big go

[mint mauve]

yea

[waxen meteor]

good luck on disarm

[mint mauve]

I don't really target players that can fight back lol

just being a nuisance i guess