pvp

[potent pivot]

Yeah idk the entire class feels borderline unplayable without Vigor

It’s playable just feels so shit

[worthy crag]

I think that was one of the designs behind the 10.2 rework

where they upped the energy cost of everything to 40+

idfk about that one. Sub energy is either feast or famine after that rework

and it's almost as if it assumes you should take vigor by default

[potent pivot]

Yeah I strongly dislike so many of the core changes they’ve been making

And I feel like literally everyone dislikes them

[worthy crag]

Yeah you could say that about the anniv changes for sure

[potent pivot]

Hiking energy costs, losing acro, etc

[worthy crag]

Like backstab used to be 28 energy? or so in wod

[potent pivot]

I don’t mind the 11.0.5 changes honestly

I think most of them are good

But they don’t solve the core issues with the class

[worthy crag]

Yeah and as far as I know they no longer have a dedicated class dev for rogue

[potent pivot]

Sin should not feel wrong for pressing its main ST builder

It’s so fucking dumb

[worthy crag]

even for pve, the emphasis with lining flagellation and shadow blades makes sub just a sin 2.0

in terms of playstyle

where everything lines up by default

[potent pivot]

I’m not sure on the specifics, but Realz is still around

[worthy crag]

I think he's on a diff position

I mean, that's what I heard last

[potent pivot]

Don’t think I would believe rumors from randoms

I know at one point there was a rumor that he wasn’t but it was false as far as I’m aware

[worthy crag]

gonna have to see the aftermath of the feral/sp nerfs to see where sub/rogue really lands

cuz they are coming, we just dont know when

but right after the anniv patch you'd have to be insane to play with a rogue over a feral

if ur serious enough

[potent pivot]

Yeah I’ve been playing feral for about a week

I’m gonna play rogue for at least a week now though

[worthy crag]

It's a dark time indeed

there have been darker times though

this isnt the worst

[potent pivot]

Tbh it doesn’t matter on ladder

Not imo anyway

[hidden moth]

idk we already dont use er in pvp

why would we swap to the new etr

er

[worthy crag]

its the competitor node to ER that's worth considering

[potent pivot]

Have you read how they are different?

[hidden moth]

instead of playing mini game it just happens
only 2 bonus combos and not as if its 7/7

[worthy crag]

it'll be 8/8

[hidden moth]

but 7 combos would make darkest night hit so much hardere

[potent pivot]

Or 9/9

[worthy crag]

or 10/10

[hidden moth]

vs only having 6 cps

[potent pivot]

Huh

[hidden moth]

7 cps vs 6 baseline

bc u wont always have shiv for a dark night proc

[potent pivot]

With the new ER you would get a 8-9 cp envenom for DN

[worthy crag]

well, our dmg outside of symbols/dance doesnt matter and has never mattered, so "6 baseline" isnt worth much attention

what IS worth attention is that it can be 8/8 during symbols/dance

[potent pivot]

He’s talking about Sin

[hidden moth]

oh ur on sub

[worthy crag]

ah

ok

ill shut up

my b

[hidden moth]

ur good

[potent pivot]

Yeah but you can have a proc for every Shiv

[hidden moth]

fair ig, im thinking blitz though

[potent pivot]

Think it would be even better for blitz

[vocal totem]

Hey just one question Kb or serrated bone spike in 11.0.5

[potent pivot]

11.0.5 isn’t live yet homie

Check back in a day or two

[vocal totem]

I know

[potent pivot]

Need to test it in live matches

Both are fine options

[vocal totem]

What about ptr

[potent pivot]

PTR is PTR

[vocal totem]

Ok ty

[potent pivot]

Not a lot of 3v3/blitz/anything happening on PTR

Just a bunch of dummy and duel testing

[vocal totem]

👍

[runic trench]

I missed the conversation earlier are you guys running 2 vanish as sub

Without the cdr I feel like maybe for the 30% healing but I get everything subterfuge gives from shadow dance anyway

[potent pivot]

It’s still very strong yeah

Sub is losing its passive healing from dance and CDR on cloak/evasion so it’s going to be a bit squishier

And subterfuge for extra access to cheap/sap is nothing to gloss over either

[hidden moth]

im so tired of having people mald in bg blitz about "we have no damage" while they have done 0 damage to orb carriers. and didnt pick a single orb at all.

[runic trench]

people flame for any reason

i got flamed for no dmg in this map

gilneas

[minor bolt]

Losing makes people madge

[languid ravine]

only 3 caps and 1 defense? bro do you even lift?

[gaunt turret]

Hey guys, I've recently picked up my rogue again after getting pala and dk to 1800 in blitz (I'm not that good). I haven't done rated pvp on rogue since TBC, and I'm basically ready and geared up, but is rogue supposed to feel this squishy?

[gusty hedge]

3 caps/ 1 defend says it all. Let the baddies cry and try to flame

[wintry dew]

Kinda and it might get worse, at least sub

[gaunt turret]

I was writing it off at first because I was still in questing greens and stuff, but as I was progressing and now that I'm fully pvp geared with 3 parts from bloody tokens, pvp weapons, 3 parts tier set (working on getting conquest for 4th), I still feel like I die crazy fast compared to dk/ret. So that's normal?

[wintry dew]

Yes

[runic trench]

they wear plate and have better defensives

and they just have naturally more hp

[lone anvil]

@gaunt turret when are feral and shadow nerfs happening

I didn't know feral and shadow nerfs had been announced

I thought both were untouched

[lone anvil]

Are you really suggesting a rogue should feel as tanky as a plate wearing brawler, but also have stealth, crazy damage output, and 600 stuns

Rogue/assassin archetype in almost every game is high damage but squishy. Not supposed to be an in your face, face-tank class

[runic trench]

the issue is

the plate wearin tanky specs

somehow have more mobility and gripping power than most other classes

[wicked tide]

just be ready to push rating as sub this week

then its gonna get nerfed into the ground next week

[gaunt turret]

Not really suggesting anything. Just wondering if my experience is the norm, or if I'm doing something wrong. I haven't done serious PVP on my rogue since TBC, but have been doing blitz this season on dk/ret, so I didn't know what it's like from the other side.

[gusty hedge]

Quick Wpvp action on Alt
(i know im bad)
https://youtu.be/JME57igKwsM?feature=shared

[potent pivot]

They haven’t been but it’s kind obvious they’re coming

[lone anvil]

Gotcha. I think it's obvious as well. but you know how that goes lol

Spriest was never weak in war within from my perspective and at the start of the expansion they had one of the highest win rates and play rates in Solo shuffle and then it got buffed 3 times

🤷‍♀️

@potent pivot look at this data from over a month ago and the popularity and strength of Spriest (before multiple buffs)

https://youtu.be/YguwrNS4AHc?si=9jKYldIPLU_bBSnp

That's actually not the video I was thinking of. I had seen another analytics video maybe 2 weeks before this one, before affliction got nerfed. and Spriest was still one of the best specs for solo shuffle

[whole fractal]

anyone by chance have a focus target shadowstep kick macro?

[surreal barn]

Spriest buff when

[lone anvil]

How does this work. Will it automatically focus whoever is casting

[lone anvil]

For real

[orchid plinth]

next patch: feral sp buffed, warriors nerfed

[potent pivot]

No, you have to have them focused

[lone anvil]

Constant class changes are a good thing ,though (that's what I'm told)

[gusty hedge]

#showtooltip
/cast [target=focus] Shadowstep
/cast [target=focus] Kick

[whole fractal]

im using it for mythic brood prog, i just know its a pvp macro lol

ty

[orchid plinth]

disgusting target=focus when @focus syntax exists

[whole fractal]

either of those syntaxes work?

[orchid plinth]

yes

[whole fractal]

kk

[potent pivot]

This can kinda be considered “self promo” being from YT, I don’t think that’s why you posted it just throwing it out there

[lone anvil]

So I'm kind of new to rogue and don't have tons of macros. Some macros just seem like they replicate steps I can pretty easily manually do myself, for instance shadow stepping and kicking someone seems pretty easy to do.

As opposed to let's say if the macro automatically targeted someone actively casting for me.

What are some macros that you guys consider to be the most basic or significant for rogue in arena ( I play sin)

[potent pivot]

Usually better to post raw clips unless it’s about something already being discussed

[potent pivot]

Focus macros like that are pretty important, the less time between step and kick the better

[robust harbor]

The sap stealthed player macro is the most useful to me

especially in arenas

[gusty hedge]

ahh ok bet. couldn't post the clip due to file size and Resolution loss. Good lookin no wonder i dnt see much pvp vids from users 👍🏾

[lone anvil]

Does it do them both on a single GCD or is it multiple GCDs? For me personally, I already have 30 keybinds. So having a keybind for step, for kick and then a 3rd keybind for step + kick seems worse to me than just clicking two separate buttons. (Unless it saves me a GCD or something)

Idk maybe I'm too dumb for rogue lol

Maybe I should play a smooth brained class with 4 buttons

[whole fractal]

kick isn't on the gcd

so u can step kick instantly

[lone anvil]

Gotcha

I can see why that's nice

[robust harbor]

I use mouse scroll up as a keybind for shadowstep and another mouse button for kick

[lone anvil]

Nice. I think I have kick on R and shadow step on a mouse side button

[potent pivot]

It doesn’t save a GCD it saves you the time it takes you to go from pressing step to pressing kick, which is a time you can have your kick faked

[potent pivot]

Yeh it’s basically just so we don’t have people coming in just to post their YT vids etc

[lime oar]

Yall seen kalvish doing 1 shot cheese with sub on ptr yesterday?

[potent pivot]

i don't even want to talk about it

[surreal barn]

Them lining up the blades and flag cds perfectly is something else

[potent pivot]

if it even goes live like that, it'll get nerfed

[orchid plinth]

Blizzard would never let rogues 1 shot people for a week after a major patch just to have it gutted into the ground later

[hybrid vessel]

any youtube guides to recommend for sub/blitz?

[mystic raptor]

Could anyone link good guide for assa rogue i am trying to get into it but could not find anything that teaches me how rotation/spell priority works from ground up

[hybrid vessel]

been ages since i played rogue but getting bored of warrior and i wanna try climb to 2400 for titles 😛

[potent pivot]

i would check out wowhead to learn basic mechanics

[minor bolt]

<Resisting the urge to link the feral Druid guide>

[vocal ginkgo]

Are we one shotting ppl?

[potent pivot]

in a real setting not so much

pre stacking full flag and lining up other buffs on a target dummy sure

[vocal ginkgo]

Any significant changes in our pvp builds as sub now that shadowdust is gone?

[potent pivot]

probably but there's zero way of knowing right now

no one has tested anything in actual live pvp

[lone anvil]

Sometimes I see comments from people claiming there are "no pvp devs"

Other times I hear comments more subtle but maybe getting at the same thing - like: "classes aren't buffed or nerfed until they start effecting PvE and that's when shit changes"

To be, my assumption is that these people are just disgruntled and surely a game with millions of subscribers has devs for PvP even if PvP is only 8% of the total population 8% of 7.5million is alot of people.

But then again I see classes that are strong go untouched or receive additional buffs. Or you see them try to balance a class but they buff or nerf an ability that like no one uses.

Does anyone know if these disgruntled conspiracy theory holders are onto something

[mystic raptor]

ok i read the guide and now i understand basic of specs but still not sure when to use ambush

[gusty hedge]

7.5 Subs is a lie

[mystic raptor]

also have question about poisions like which ones do i go and if i switch in different situatons etc

[potent pivot]

At some point during your Subterfuge

[potent pivot]

Wound+crippling basically always

You never switch from those 2 unless running 4 poison talent which we don’t really run

[potent pivot]

No one can truly know that

[vocal ginkgo]

Yeah agree but apparently that didn’t stop skillcapped from posting a new tier list when the patch isn’t even live 🤣

[languid ravine]

thats why they arent called skillfull

[potent pivot]

Content creators are always going to make content about a new patch as soon as they can, that’s the nature of what they do

Sharing their opinions is fine

As far as builds go there’s no real way to tell what’s going to be best until actually testing it on the ladder

I think the changes are going to work out to be good overall

And I love to prove the doomers wrong so you can bet I’ll be going hard

[potent pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/judgement-cat-cat-angry-cat-cat-face-cat-forehead-gif-4731341898773190051

[hybrid vessel]

is there a spellalerter type WA/addon like there used to be back in the day?

[orchid plinth]

You would have to clarify

There are million of WAs notifying stuff yes

[potent pivot]

like Mes' arena WAs?

he hasn't posted an updated version

[hybrid vessel]

not sure about that one, im thinking back in TBC there used to be an addon atleast for it 😛

[potent pivot]

probably best to make some on your own tbf

[hybrid vessel]

ok so it's doable to have like "announcements" if for example a mage is casting poly or whatev?

wouldnt have a clue on how to make it but ye 😄

[potent pivot]

yeah

search for a guide to making weakauras

there's lots of stuff you can do with em

[hybrid vessel]

okok prob worth having a look into that then

almost weird there isnt any tbh

[potent pivot]

there is a couple packs that are locked behind twitch subs n shit

[hybrid vessel]

aah

send me in direction? 😇

[orchid plinth]

I mean SpellAlert and those started to exist before there were castbars for enemies so that's one explanation

[potent pivot]

there's also gladiatorlossa or w/e it's called

[hybrid vessel]

spose, i think its a 'muscle memory' kind of thing t bh

[potent pivot]

addon that does announcements, but requires some customization too i think

[hybrid vessel]

react faster to seeing the text

if that makes sense 😛

okok

[orchid plinth]

It does

Habit > all

[hybrid vessel]

😄

looks like gladiatorlossa could be the play for now

gotta try it out first too i guess xD

[vernal ridge]

Yes, Gladiatorlossa is for audio alert, And if you want to visually track enemy cooldown you can check Omnibar

[calm roost]

can dracthyr rogue glide in stealth ?

[jolly sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-shock-eyes-out-big-eyes-what-gif-26401236

[surreal barn]

Yeah

[orchid plinth]

Neato! https://x.com/mysticalthemonk/status/1848130841828082036

Justin (@MysticalTheMonk) on X

Someone on r/worldofpvp made an updated skin for sArena and it looks pretty clean. I moved some things around, but I'd recommend it for anyone that wants a modern version of it

https://t.co/wdGRkdo1ZN

Twitter · Oct 20, 2024, 10:35 PM

[potent pivot]

damn that looks way better than the old version

i've always disliked sArena compared to gladius because of it's look

[orchid plinth]

I like the Xaryu layout but this one looks really nice, hopefully officially added soonTM

[potent pivot]

idk if i'd expect that

as far as i know sarena's original creator discontinued it

now all we have is the updated version by sammers

[orchid plinth]

The creator of this has already reached out to Sammers at least.

[potent pivot]

word

maybe it'll happen then

the state of pvp addons has been pretty rough lately

[surreal barn]

Damn!

[orchid plinth]

Great my scrollwheel broke so scrolling up now sometimes scroll down etc...

Great when I use that for target and focus a123

Adding a bit of randomness to my already random 1600 washed dad gamers shuffles

[surreal barn]

You gotta get on that foot pedal tech

[orchid plinth]

I already use it for Sprint and Shadowstep

jkjk

[hybrid vessel]

dont use gladiatorlossa straight out the box in blitz btw

LOL

[orchid plinth]

Honestly though the default arena frames are much better now, they are getting there!
1 Feature added to them takes one expansion so we might have DR trackers when to World Soul Saga ends or something.

[potent pivot]

idk man

they've been extremely lackluster lately

rating system is beyond fucked

[wet crown]

For whoever might be interested: I've gotten stealth to work while soaring a few times >.>

[potent pivot]

if they don't fix it before the next seasons the pvp part of the game is going to suffer greatly

[wet crown]

rip ears

[surreal barn]

Is maintenance over

[lime oar]

I dont understand how they let it get this bad lol

[potent pivot]

no lol

2 hours plus whatever extensions happen

[warped gate]

Oof.

I’d be in full professor purps by now if I didn’t have to reset my gear to do a KiR build.

[safe pelican]

What time did maintenance start ??

EST

[potent pivot]

9 or 10 am

10am

[hybrid vessel]

does sub spec change in this patch?

[potent pivot]

uhhh

i would recommend reading the patch notes

[hybrid vessel]

hahah yeye

but ive not played sub in years

[potent pivot]

all 3 specs got some changes

[hybrid vessel]

and not lvled it yet

[potent pivot]

sub got the most changes

[hybrid vessel]

so just asking for like the most basic advice 😛

okay

hopefully there'll be an updated guide on youtube 😄

[potent pivot]

https://imgur.com/ccu7dbw

ele shaman on PTR

[hybrid vessel]

damn

looks insane xD

[potent pivot]

20m dps

goodluck everyone

[hybrid vessel]

😄

[potent pivot]

we are going to be getting farmed

[warped gate]

Fam.

[lime oar]

wtf. There’s no shot that translates to pvp

Please god

[potent pivot]

mistweaver cracking jade lightning also does big dam

and heals 1m per tick

[ocean thunder]

what are the conditions of casting that?

[potent pivot]

the mistweaver thing?

they literally just press crackling jade lightning

with the proper 2 talents for the dmg/healing

[warped gate]

I haven’t been hit by a CJL in a Shuffle yet, so is it something not all MW’s take?

[potent pivot]

they've also got an interrupt/silence immunity, idr if they had that before

[potent pivot]

it's something new i think

with the patch going live today

[orchid plinth]

lava lava

[potent pivot]

from what i saw arcane was also doing insane dps

[warped gate]

Ahhhhh, I see. Interesting.

As if I needed another reason to hate those Life Cuckoon chumps.

[potent pivot]

cocoon got a slight nerf as well i think

[warped gate]

Really?

There’s just too many words for me to read these patches, so I just usually check out my class specifically and then the general stuff, so I’m totally in the dark on what these classes are getting.

[cursive cosmos]

ayo chill lol

[potent pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/the-muppets-gif-19144371

^new shaman Ascendance forms killing us

[orchid plinth]

[potent pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/danger-gif-15291718235185428481

[lone anvil]

I used to main ele, might be time to dust him off

[potent pivot]

If only they could design enhance to actually function

I liked it in SL when it was probably at its worst state ever

[lone anvil]

to me enhancements glory days were like classic and TBC when you could still viably play 2h with enhancement.

Once they switched to like malestrom procs and lava lash in wrath and gave ele lava burst, ele has been the more fun spec. Mind you there's alot of expansions I didn't play. But DW enhancement just doesn't have that appeal for me

[potent pivot]

I’m just not really a ranged player

Though I’ve never seriously tried em either

[lyric onyx]

wtf D:

[potent pivot]

Apparently they nerfed DK again in the patch

Balance is becoming such a joke I swear

[warped gate]

”Becoming”?

[potent pivot]

Just keeps getting worse and worse

Oh shit

They’re fixing MMR

[solar glacier]

Do we have any Posts about what and if sometjing changes tomorrow concerning Builds?

[potent pivot]

No

Not yet

Need to test things on the live ladder for a few days

[lusty tiger]

where do you see this

[potent pivot]

Arena rating adjustments starting this week.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/arena-rating-adjustments-underway-october-22/1990291

[lusty tiger]

awesome, ty

[orchid plinth]

WoW is a PvE game and Frost DKs are broken in PvE hence the nerf

[potent pivot]

(Does not apply in PvP combat)

Damn how hard was that

[solar glacier]

Alrighty. One more question: i have recently played twos with a sub on my hpal and the guy ran some Strange Build with flag and goremaws. He did some really insane bursts where he killed a prevoker from 100% to 0 in a duel window. Some more similar kills but not as burty (still pretty big though) against other players happened too. Is that some kind of tech i dont understand? I dont really see anyone playing those talents.

[potent pivot]

They even made a couple of the nerfs not apply in pvp but not all of them

[potent pivot]

No one really plays that no

[orchid plinth]

They probably just dont think it's worth the effort

[potent pivot]

But at lower rating it barely matters what you play

[solar glacier]

Im not on pc but i screenshotted a 78% to 0% kill in 1.8s

[potent pivot]

Just have to outplay the opponent

[solar glacier]

I dont think the regular Build does that so i wondered

[potent pivot]

Wouldn’t work on anyone that knows what they’re doing is my point

[solar glacier]

I see

Just wondered what even does the dmg there

[potent pivot]

Flag ramps

Goremaws does a decent amount of dmg but isn’t worth taking

[solar glacier]

Is it that much mastery i mean its max 3 globals for like 6 mil dmg

Excited to See what the patch will do

[potent pivot]

Yes it’s a lot of mastery

[solar glacier]

Inb4 trickster gloomblade perforated shit lul

[potent pivot]

The problem is that it’s insanely easy to counter

The build we’ve been playing is all about consistent pressure

The only big burst has been too gimmicky/easy to counter and comes at the cost of too much consistency

[solar glacier]

Yeah the amount of goes and offcc with smoke and duel brings tons of value

[lone anvil]

Does this mean my existing rating will be changed/adjusted or just that MMR gains/changes will be different moving forward in future matches

[solar glacier]

Just missing the time where we could actually solo kill someone

[potent pivot]

We’re about to be basically forced to play Flag with the new patch

But not goremaws

[potent pivot]

No one should really be able to do that imo

[solar glacier]

I guess flag is replacing my sepsis keybind then

[potent pivot]

Sure it’s fun but it’s bad for the game

[solar glacier]

But quite a few specs still can so id rather be one of em

[potent pivot]

Far from it

[solar glacier]

Flag lines with sb now or Not

[potent pivot]

Almost no spec in the game can solo one shot

[lone anvil]

Time to become a Dom

[potent pivot]

Even Feral needs high dampening and a bit of its partner’s damage

[solar glacier]

Have You seen the fkin devoker flameshaper shit

Its deranged burst

[potent pivot]

Pretty much all burst in the game can be countered in some way or another

[solar glacier]

Ofc it can Never Said it couldnt but u dont win every game throgh damp

[potent pivot]

Ofc

[topaz bobcat]

hello NA players

[potent pivot]

You win by capitalizing off the mistakes of the opponents

[topaz bobcat]

sub died today right?

[solar glacier]

If u get the correct setups done and can press a couple actual dps buttons it will still matter how much throughput u have in that timeframe

[potent pivot]

once again, far from it

don't be in here baiting

[solar glacier]

https://wowarenalogs.com/stats?tab=spec-stats&bracket=Rated Solo Shuffle&sortKey=burst&minRating=0&maxRating=4999&trendChartSpecs=&trendChartStat=representation

[potent pivot]

..?

[orchid plinth]

Brewmaster confirmed best spec

[solar glacier]

Have u seen a brm oneshot

No you havent but neither have u seen a sub rogue

Take away what u will

Pls buff sub

[potent pivot]

what

sub doesn't need buffs

[orchid plinth]

TIER LIST BRAIN ROT

Sub doesn't need buffs - I needs buffs

[solar glacier]

I want shadowdust back

How Else can i smoke every Minute

[orchid plinth]

It will come back in two expansions

[potent pivot]

we aren't playing First Dance anymore

and i dislike the idea of dropping vigor/tea personally

also Trickster is still worse

what

[orchid plinth]

Stillshroud in PvP?

[potent pivot]

we likely play something like this

can even swap Replicating Shadows

servers are up apparently

[topaz bobcat]

i'm not. did u try?

[potent pivot]

@surreal barn

[topaz bobcat]

I fail to see how it won't be way worse without cdr

[solar glacier]

Perforated over deeper daggers? 😎

[potent pivot]

yes

you have to get to the Symbols

[solar glacier]

True

[potent pivot]

so it's really Flag > Deeper Daggers

[solar glacier]

Charges are huge

Yeah true

[potent pivot]

flag now naturally aligns with blades

so it's probably going to be the new thing unfortunately

[solar glacier]

Yup

[potent pivot]

deeper strat is really good for CDR

so it's a tough choice

Tea mastery is huge

[solar glacier]

Dont even think Flag is that Bad now that it lines with sb it at least gives us a good go every 90s

[potent pivot]

that's why it's going to take testing in real matches

[solar glacier]

Wonder how much u rly want the charged cp

[orchid plinth]

Going to be interesting to see what Echo will be doing in AWC...

[potent pivot]

need to see if the mastery from Tea values our burst enough or if it's even necessary

nah that's the last thing

[solar glacier]

Isnt tea fully passive how do you even trigger that

[potent pivot]

no

[halcyon timber]

Its on demand still

[solar glacier]

Ah god Bless

[potent pivot]

it's crazy how many people misunderstood the tea change

[safe pelican]

Common sense ain’t so common ya know

[halcyon timber]

Propaganda

[gusty hedge]

👀

[potent pivot]

Shadowcraft already feels kinda insane

[waxen meteor]

hmmm

@potent pivot how can we reach the echo addon dmg talent

you giving up tea/vanish?

[potent pivot]

nah

i'm going to test this first

[waxen meteor]

yeah this is what i am doing

but basically no change to me...

[potent pivot]

but

[waxen meteor]

i have been using this just with ER or with shiv

[potent pivot]

this might be okay for sub

just feels like dogshit energy wise

[potent pivot]

remember MA is good now

i'm going to test KB+MA with the changes

[waxen moon]

waiting on the test result, pls~ I feel like Microsoft exec leadership ppl just hate rogue thats all

Bill Gates prob play Ret

[potent pivot]

microsoft doesn't have any influence over class design choices i'm pretty sure

all microsoft cares about is activision make money? ok good

[orchid plinth]

And considering Rogue has one of the smallest player bases...

[potent pivot]

i'm already hitting 2.5m envenoms

not even full juicing

just Darkest Night+Overcharge

[waxen meteor]

does overcharge means +2 max or +2 cb dmg

[surreal barn]

I’m giving up tea

👋

[potent pivot]

you get 2 finishers that do 2 extra combo points of dmg

[waxen meteor]

i mean is it like before, so if your max cp is 5, blue cp gives you 7 cp effect

or is it like if my 2nd cp is super charged, i do it like 2+2 = 4 cp dmg

again i am not running english client, sometimes it's translated badly

[potent pivot]

the minigame is gone

it doesn't matter what point you finish on

if you press evis at 6cp it will do dmg like 8cp

if you press evis at 4cp it will do dmg like 6cp

[stoic spruce]

The mini game is gone

And

[waxen meteor]

oh there's no blue bp anymore

[stoic spruce]

Numerically better

[potent pivot]

there is

you just don't hit them

they are only there to show you how many charges you have

[wise breach]

If you take the capstone it counts as +3 cp, right?

[potent pivot]

Forced Induction is +1 cp per finisher yes

[warped gate]

Oof, gonna take some time to get rid of this Shadowstep muscle memory.

[potent pivot]

nah it's not trash

[warped gate]

Y'all did the math on whether Echoing Reprimand (grimy they kept the name) or Forced Induction is the better talent yet?

[potent pivot]

likely Forced > ER

what

have you even tried it

???

you act like 5% finisher damage matters

it doesn't

slamming 9 or 10 combo point evis hits harder than literally anything else

[warped gate]

Copy, thanks.

[potent pivot]

no, it isn't the same at all

like i said

have you even tried it

[wise breach]

We dropping Bone Spike for MA?

[potent pivot]

i'm going to test KB+MA yeah

[analog crater]

Hows sub complexity wise to play here lately? Was really enjoying outlaw but seems like it's in a terrible spot for pvp.

[potent pivot]

outlaw is really good

[wise breach]

12s MA definitely feels like a must

[lunar finch]

It's pretty complex when it comes to game sense but rotation wise it's not too difficult

[warped gate]

Huh, just saw something.

Mage's clones have it with Mage colored HP bars, not generic mobs.

So if you're on autopilot, you could hit a clone.

[analog crater]

Is murlok.io still a reliable site? Been checking it out and it's got outlaw as one of the worst specs lol

[potent pivot]

don't pay attention to statistics on websites

or tier lists

[lunar finch]

I'd say it's pretty good if you're just looking to see what people built but yeah that^^^

[potent pivot]

yeah it's fine most of the time for checking out builds and stuff

but looking at spec participation statistics serves no real purpose

outlaw has even seen play in the AWC this season

[lunar finch]

People hit 2k+ with any spec, it's all about learning how to play it at its highest level and niche tricks with that spec

Anyone have an idea how sub is looking with the rework?

[potent pivot]

it's looking fine

[analog crater]

Hm ok. Guess that's good to know, I was really enjoying outlaw in remix

[lunar finch]

No invigorating

Guess I have to be a real rogue again lol

[outer sky]

20th anniversary changes hit already???

I was expecting november

[potent pivot]

ya

[outer sky]

ok whats the go to sin build?

[potent pivot]

sec

[outer sky]

are we playing MA again???

[analog crater]

I saw something on reddit about SND changes, what happened with that?

[outer sky]

I'm so hype

[lunar finch]

Hopefully sin is in a better spot, felt so ass recently lol

[outer sky]

you never have to press it ever again

[analog crater]

They made it a passive or what?

[potent pivot]

CMQAA0tw2gAD7pPTLoW5IGZDewMjZmxMjZAAAAAAY2mxsNDAAAAAAtsNMgxYmZWGDmZMzYmZGzM222GzwgtZWGbMmxs0Y2WGmsNMsMA
i'm trying this first

[potent pivot]

it auto procs off evis/env/dispatch

[lunar finch]

I kinda miss mfd tbh

[analog crater]

Nice! So it can just come off my bar entirely then? Haha

[potent pivot]

ye

[analog crater]

Also, everyone's thoughts on drac rogue?

[wise breach]

Haha no

[minor bolt]

Hu I’ve been doing pretty good with sin.
Just the flow of combat feels more clunky than the other specs.
But in Blitz I’ve been owning with sin

[lunar finch]

Nelf is the best until meld is gone lol

[potent pivot]

[wise breach]

As long as Shadowmeld is what it is, there is no other choice

[minor bolt]

[analog crater]

Well im on horde lol..

[minor bolt]

B11 or bust

[lunar finch]

Orc

Stun reduction is great tbh but it's no meld

[analog crater]

Idk, I feel like for arena the double jump could be a game changer

[potent pivot]

afaik it's nerfed

for non evokers

[lunar finch]

If you use your steps correctly I feel like you won't really need it

[lone anvil]

There's always a chance to make the right choice to go Gnome or Vulpera..but people are weak and scared.

(including me ) cries in orc

[analog crater]

Think that was the knock back passive not the jump

[lunar finch]

I feel like gnome would be good with outlaw more than any other spec but I've never played outlaw

[minor bolt]

I’ll never give up my arcane torrent

[hard compass]

Nahj said double jump counters knockbacks if you play it right

[lone anvil]

Gnome and Vulpera are S tier because

1. Cute.
2. The irony of being a certified killer in a tiny cute body.

[wise breach]

Hey I'd love to go back to gnome... A night elf rogue named Shortcut doesn't make a whole lot of sense

[lunar finch]

I don't got the ping for that

[wise breach]

But it is what it is

[lunar finch]

3 roommates with 6 devices total I can barely get past 1800 in most cases LMFAO

[potent pivot]

either way, nelf is too good to pass up

[solar glacier]

Wdym

[minor bolt]

If Nightborne had better racials I’d reroll in a heartbeat tbh

Gimme big elf

[waxen meteor]

I feel i am nerfed with the new supercharged :(((

[potent pivot]

outlaw's step was removed

[potent pivot]

_>

[warped gate]

What @potent pivot said.

Outlaw now has a second charge of Grappling Hook.

[rotund pumice]

I don't know how I feel without tea

and vigor

[warped gate]

Which when combined with that Fatebound talent, gives you four Hooks.

It's cool as shit but I keep trying to hit my SS bind.

[waxen meteor]

it's true.
Before change, i spent two talent, to have a 10 energy builder skill with good dmg, and allow me to finish 7 cp finishers with only 2/3/4 cps, so it allows me to finish much quicker and continously

after change, i spent 2 talent to charge 2 cp

[potent pivot]

Supercharge is definitely a buff compared to old ER

[waxen meteor]

Where

[potent pivot]

wdym where

[waxen meteor]

You save a global?

where is the buff

[potent pivot]

bro

holy shit lol

you get 2 9-10 combo point finishers

from pressing Symbols

that's 2 bigger evis than you would've ever had before

[waxen meteor]

i am talking about sin

[potent pivot]

every 25-30 seconds

[waxen meteor]

i haven't tried sub yet

[potent pivot]

it's the same for sin

[waxen meteor]

server just comes back

[warped gate]

Forced Induction is so weird. Instead of giving me three extra CP's like the wording would make it seem, you just get one CP after you use the two up.

[potent pivot]

no

you're misunderstanding how they work

Forced Induction is +1 CP for both finishers

the visual effect shows you how many Supercharge charges you have

[sharp comet]

hey lads, as a sub, what the fuck is my objective in deephaul - am i back capping? am i sitting on cart? am I runnin crystal?

[potent pivot]

so Supercharge alone is +2CP on 2 finishers, with Forced Induction it's +3CP on 2 finishers

[waxen meteor]

like why sin er is buffed??
I just put out all my reasons below and above

Before change, i spent two talent, to have a 10 energy builder skill with good dmg, and allow me to finish 7 cp finishers with only 2/3/4 cps, so it allows me to finish much quicker and continously
after change, i spent 2 talent to charge 2 cp

where is your reasoning

[potent pivot]

i literally already explained it to you dude

[warped gate]

Ohhh, alright.

[waxen meteor]

You did not at all

for sin

[potent pivot]

yes

i did

it's the same for sin

swap evis for envenom in my explanation

[waxen meteor]

you only said 'it's the same for sin'

[potent pivot]

[waxen meteor]

the only reason you are speaking is probably just CD now.
old ER is 45 sec ish

it's not really much a gain

[potent pivot]

yes

it is

[waxen meteor]

no

[potent pivot]

bro

i'm beginning to lose brain cells

would you rather hit 7cp envenoms

or 9-10 cp envenoms

compared to old ER it's much stronger

[waxen meteor]

you don't have 7 cp

you can't compare A and B with other conditions changed

[potent pivot]

what

[waxen meteor]

if you have 7 cp sin, you have no tea and etc.

[warped gate]

Ahhh man, I'm binging this log after this Shuffle.

[potent pivot]

old ER were 7cp envenoms

the blue points

[waxen meteor]

i mean how do you have 9-10 cp envenom

you need to have base 7 cps right?

[potent pivot]

because that's how Supercharge works

no

for 10cp envenoms you would need Deeper Stat

without Deeper you can get 9cp envenoms

[waxen meteor]

when you have max cp = 5, your super charged evenom = 7 cp or 9 cp dmg

[potent pivot]

you can also back to back Shiv for even more burst

like it's so much stronger than old ER for pvp

why would you have max 5cp

you should have either 6 or 7

base

Sanguine Strat/Deeper Strat and Supercharge/Forced Induction

[waxen meteor]

I don't run 6 cp for sin last week, and also, you can't use the 7 cp as your argument, you are changing the baseline and make thing un-comparable. Your assumption also includes losing tea

then you need to minus tea from your comparasion

[potent pivot]

no

why wouldn't you be running the proper shit

you can drop Tea for Deeper for 10cp finishers but you don't have to

that's why i said 9-10

but even 9cp envenoms hit harder than your old ER envenoms

[waxen meteor]

My point is, with old ER, i have a 10 energy builder that i can use with low energy, and allow me to quickly throw double/tripple 7 cp finishers with 1 or 2, mult/fan.
Now with same 2 points, I still have to build 5 or 6 or 7 CPs between each finisher, and lose the low energy dmg builder skill

[potent pivot]

plus you get them more often

and can even chain 4 in a row

[waxen meteor]

i don't understand how you have that many energy without tea

[nova viper]

SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAXO

[waxen meteor]

to throw 4 times 7 cp evenom

good luck

[potent pivot]

i'm not even saying you have to drop Tea

that's only if you want to force the 10cp

[waxen meteor]

maybe my brain is dead, let's go back to here

can you answer this

maybe i missed it here

or if you want to question why i don't have max cp = 6, i change my question

[hidden moth]

try one build with 7 cp then the other with shiv doing 3 cp bonus so u hit 9 cp envenom bc u have 6+3=9

[waxen meteor]

if my max cp = 6, with super charge and finishing at max cp evnom, do i hit 8 cp dmg?

[hidden moth]

yes

[waxen meteor]

so where does 9 come from

[hidden moth]

and if u have the other talent u will hit 9

the talent below it

[waxen meteor]

yeah if you have the other talent you drop tea

that's why i said it's in-comparable then

or you drop vanish of course

and without tea, how can you do the with double shiv, you can do four times 9-10 cp evenom?

[woven night]

can anyone explain this one to me? from what im reading it seems that the duration of the combat bonuses start counting only when subterfuge ends?

[waxen meteor]

you build 7 cp * 4 = 28 CPs?

energy where

[hidden moth]

no subeterfuge makes those bonus go from 6sec to 12

[potent pivot]

no, they last 12 seconds total now

[waxen meteor]

yes, as predicted this skill will be 30 seconds soon, we become war next patch

[woven night]

yeah its what i was thinking think ive expressed myself bad. english not main language. thanks!

yeah 12 secs.. master assassin probably pretty good now

[potent pivot]

yeah

[waxen meteor]

and NE even better now

[waxen meteor]

check this out

#pvp message

[gleaming pawn]

@potent pivot you could swap Lingering Darkness to Symbolic Victory in Deathstalker to further juice those envenoms

[waxen meteor]

lol, i over-estimated, in 11.0.5 it's already 12 secs

[topaz bobcat]

this def will get nerfed

[potent pivot]

nah

[gleaming pawn]

It’s completely by design, why would it be nerfed

[topaz bobcat]

so now serious question

is sub squishier than assa?

cuz of shadow dance heal nerf

[potent pivot]

yeah Symbolic is even better now, but Lingering is still pgood

[potent pivot]

no

[hidden moth]

healing 10% max hp every 2 seconds nutttt

[gleaming pawn]

Yeah true. When I get home I’m also trying out a bit of hybrid build that takes Twist the Knife for all of the envenom interactions

[waxen meteor]

quite a bit dailies at anniversary place

[potent pivot]

the problem with TTK is i don't think it will be good without Amp or DTB or something

because the poison proc chance is kinda whatever and hitting Rapid Injection is kinda w/e

[gleaming pawn]

Yeah but I play those in my Hybrid build, I catch people with juiced Kingsbane when I play that build so getting enough points swapped around for TTK isn’t terribly hard

[warped gate]

We gotta stop this Rogue on Rogue crime.

Mans kept coming for me exclusively when Dance was up.

35 Conquest from the next upgrade.

Too much to farm with Skirmish, too risky to get into a Random and risk an L — looks like another eternity long Shuffle queue.

[gusty hedge]

i love going for other rogues in pvp combat

[gleaming pawn]

That’s just being a Rogue. Dick measuring dominance, and Rogue is often the easier target to kill as a Rogue

[warped gate]

It's all fun and games until I lose though.

:c

[lone anvil]

Gotta assert your dominance as papa rogue

[lone anvil]

Just blind and sprint away and send a salty DM. Refer to the dueling guide I posted in chat earlier this week

If you can't kill them you can always hurt their feelings

[warped gate]

Here's something I've been wondering: Am I supposed to be spamming the fuck out of BtE during my burst, or should I be taking the time out to stun them again during the fake-stealth?

[warped gate]

I can feel the blood pressure rise when during Shadowy Duel I'm just Grappling all over the place like I'm Batman.

I totally forgot about this Feint buff.

[lone anvil]

You are Batman

[potent pivot]

both

[warped gate]

I'm still waiting afterwards before hitting my next move like the GCD is still there.

[potent pivot]

https://www.twitch.tv/meepmonkmw/clip/RelatedThoughtfulOctopusOSkomodo-eyH8IOlIdomtYfeq

mistweaver basically has lay on hands on a 30 second CD or some shit now btw

[warped gate]

Outlaw/Assa Rogue, Fury Warr, Feral, Holy/Disc Priest Shuffle.

I'm violating this Assa to feel better.

[devout mantle]

Is that Mandark?

[warped gate]

Huh, just realized typing that out sounds a lot more worse than I meant.

I meant via violence. :x

[sharp comet]

ditching the shadow route for sub and going full symbols of death is pretty fucking gnarly

[potent pivot]

huh? who is mandark

that's Meepmonk

[devout mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/evil-laugh-mandark-dexters-lab-haha-laughing-gif-15643250

[sharp comet]

way more sustainablity, can fight for much much longer without the damage falling off waiting for next big cd

[potent pivot]

o

[sharp comet]

weird seeing rupture as almost bottom damage compared to evis now..

[rotund pumice]

3.2 mill evis lol

holy

[sharp comet]

that on pvp dummy?

[potent pivot]

that was on a mage

[surreal barn]

Yo @potent pivot - check to see if dagger in the dark continues while subterfuge is active

Ive been wondering

[analog crater]

"Shadowstep has been removed. Shadowstep is still automatically granted for Assassination and Subtlety." From patch notes, outlaw lose shadowstep?

[potent pivot]

yes

it gets a second charge of hook now

[potent pivot]

sec

[analog crater]

Not sure I like that trade off but we will see i guess.

[potent pivot]

nope

[lunar finch]

If evis is hitting that hard in arena I'm spam queuing until nerf lol

[sharp comet]

my evis is only critting 2.25 mil

what are your talents to be pumping an evis that large?

[potent pivot]

probably exactly the talents you'd expect

[sharp comet]

yeah thats fair

[analog crater]

Has trickster or fate bound been the fan favorite?

[potent pivot]

fatebound for outlaw

[warped gate]

Yeah.

I really want to like Trickster for those fat Killing Sprees, but Fatebound is just too good.

I dunno about any concrete numbers but the difference in survivability is felt without this:

[analog crater]

So in what different ways did outlaw become simpler? I know we don't have to hit snd any more, what else?

[potent pivot]

stealth now resets bte CD

[warped gate]

Between the Eyes now resets when you go into—

What he said.

[potent pivot]

so now you can't fuck up and put bte on CD right before vanish comes back off CD

[warped gate]

Four Grappling Hooks is cracked.

[analog crater]

Wait, 4? How?

[potent pivot]

fatebound

[analog crater]

Mind you haven't played my rogue yet since he converted from remix. Might become my new main though

Ah ok.

[analog crater]

Honestly tired of pally and warrior, looking to go back

[surreal barn]

lame. Thanks

[warped gate]

That's just too easy.

It'd be a perma-talent if it worked.

[surreal barn]

Good

lol

[potent pivot]

DfA seems unironically good

[wise breach]

I think the cd increase is doubled in PvP pretty sure

[potent pivot]

10 combo point dfa to the moon

[potent pivot]

It’s kinda w/e

[surreal barn]

damn

[potent pivot]

Have CDR on hook anyway

[surreal barn]

Sounds fun

[potent pivot]

Yeah

Nerfs inc

For sure

Once again

[warped gate]

I've been using it as a CC-immune.

Had dudes ask me between lobbies wtf that was about.

Only problem is they can be casting a CC while targetting you and aiming for your teammate.

Feels like a waste then.

[potent pivot]

Watching all the doomers now saying “sub got buffed????”

It’s so good

[sharp comet]

FI or ER?

[potent pivot]

Forced

[sharp comet]

Thought so

ER feels hollow compared

[potent pivot]

ER might be okay with a builder focused build

I doubt it sees any serious competitive play though

[sharp comet]

currently experimenting literally everything and i've come to this at the moment.

i dont MIND it

but I don't love it?

[potent pivot]

Yeah you’re missing out on a lot of damage

[sharp comet]

thought so

thought id finally escape the magic rogue

[potent pivot]

Nope :p

[sharp comet]

seems like im sticking to my previous build. I wanted to utilize SOD but it falls flat 😦

[potent pivot]

Symbols is fine

Hang on

[sharp comet]

hanging

[proud spire]

Cant change much on that side of the tree

[sharp comet]

they can't keep getting away with giving us options but forcing the meta D:

[potent pivot]

try this:
CUQAA0tw2gAD7pPTLoW5IGZDeAAMz2MAAAAAAMbzMzy0gFegZYMMzYmZmZGzysNjZW2GGMzYALjBAAAgZYG2MLDMgFwywEyswYA
or:
CUQAA0tw2gAD7pPTLoW5IGZDeAAMjZAAAAAAY2mZmlpxM4BmhxYmZMzMjZMLzmxMLbDDYMGzsMGAAAAmhZYzsMwAWALDTIzCjB

[proud spire]

Shadowcraft over rotten or dark brew??? I dunno.......

[potent pivot]

yes

i have dark brew

rotten is pretty meh

[proud spire]

Double vanish a crutch if u ask me

[sharp comet]

im off the double vanish since it gives no assistance

[potent pivot]

play without it then

no one's stopping you

[gleaming pawn]

Rotten will always be meh so long as Sub is finisher focused

[potent pivot]

what

+30% hp and subterfuge is no assistance?

[proud spire]

U got 6 rottens with new build ~ Dunno how thats meh

[potent pivot]

it just is

compared to the builds i posted

[rotund pumice]

Yeah dfa is kinda nutty rn

[potent pivot]

from what i'm hearing the jump IS nerfed

[lyric onyx]

NA peeps is indiscriminate carnage 12 seconds now with subterfuge on sin?

[analog crater]

yep, looked into it more, and the speed is being nerfed, but i dont think the double jump got nerfed itself did it?

[proud spire]

Testing DFA

[potent pivot]

that's what the patch notes said isn't it

[lyric onyx]

something along those lines

[gleaming pawn]

Yes IC is 12sec

[potent pivot]

the only reason jump is good is for the speed

other than knockbacks

[proud spire]

Rotten deff meta

[potent pivot]

nah

can promise you it won't be

[gleaming pawn]

Username checks out

[potent pivot]

not with the current iteration

[sharp comet]

bruh how tf u critting so hard, even with those builds of yours i aint hitting your crits? im at 639 ilvl

[potent pivot]

flag+dfa+darkest night

you gotta do it correctly

[sharp comet]

death from above? god damn i didnt realise

[proud spire]

wild asf

[gusty hedge]

dfa no longer as a gap closer, big deeps

[dreamy parrot]

@potent pivot are you using one of the two builds you posted above?

[potent pivot]

i'm testing both

[gusty hedge]

oh wait that subs DFA hittin like that dayum

[proud spire]

Nah DFA still trapped to 6 cmb pts from what i can tell

[potent pivot]

no

it isn't

[proud spire]

?

[potent pivot]

?

you can't always trust tool tips in this game

[proud spire]

Oooo aight bet

[potent pivot]

it 100% spends 7cp even without Supercharge/Forced

also respects the extra cp from them as well

[proud spire]

Bugged or working as intended u think

[potent pivot]

lord knows

it's been spending 7cp forever

it was good on TWW beta before they nerfed Darkest Night to 20% in pvp

[lime oar]

Damn man im too busy these days to even keep up with discord and whats going on. Tricks can u give me a run down of how sub feels so far post-patch?

[potent pivot]

it's disgusting

[lime oar]

😂😂😂 no shit? How so just huge evis?

[potent pivot]

yep

i've tried to tell everyone for weeks sub would be fine

no one believe

[lime oar]

I believed

There was no way they’d drop dust and let us suffer like that

[potent pivot]

have fun while you can

[hidden moth]

So is sub still better than assa

[potent pivot]

i mean

sub is probably the best spec in the game rn

besides maybe ele shaman or some other new broken thing i'm unaware of

[sharp comet]

right so you consume last DSM then with max combo points + SOD you do DFA

that, makes a lot of sense/

[tribal badger]

@severe helm dropping this in here since its pvp memes but good to know ele is as silly in pvp rn as it is in pve

https://clips.twitch.tv/AssiduousZanyStorkKreygasm-0qL2cnlZHXBQjw-r

[lime oar]

We’re using DFA?

[potent pivot]

we can yeah

we def don't run Bargain anymore

[lime oar]

Much excite

[sharp comet]

i gotta say why not use rotten over dark brew?

[hidden moth]

Gotta see how assa feels when I get home. Assuming we taking master assassin for pvp now

[sharp comet]

DFA and evis dont do nature/bleed

[severe helm]

LOOOL not surprising

[sharp comet]

considering we are focusing on big hitting evis/dfa

[potent pivot]

Brew is more dmg on almost everything

[sharp comet]

ah true, bc of shadowed finishers

[warped gate]

Fuck me, Helm needs 5 Conquest ribbons, not 4.

[potent pivot]

And Blades damage

[warped gate]

I wasted all my Conquest this week, can't buy anything.

Will they just uncap this shit already.

[hidden moth]

Shouldn’t matter too much since all ur gear should have been 636 min ilvl as of last week outside of 1 trinket

[potent pivot]

Gonna be like 3 more weeks at least

[warped gate]

[potent pivot]

Prolly ma+kb

[warped gate]

Nah, I had to rebuy some gear since I swapped roles.

.. Kinda.

So I got some blues where I should have epics.

[hidden moth]

But the bt gear

[pliant mauve]

Drop doomblade for MA?

[hidden moth]

Kb?

Kings bane

I assume

[potent pivot]

..ye

[atomic loom]

So whats the move for subs new arena build?

[potent pivot]

MA+KB

[potent pivot]

Scroll up

I posted 2 import strings earlier

[atomic loom]

ty

[gleaming pawn]

PvE is dropping sanguine because it slows the spec down and costs you envenoms. I plan to play around without Sanguine with my hybrid build. Moving the point over to MA

[potent pivot]

Yeah but pve is damn near 100% uptime shit

[gleaming pawn]

It’s dependent on how many things you have bleeds on, if I remember correctly you need like 5+ targets to get good value out of Sanguine. Otherwise you’re spending a lot of time under 50% energy and not getting benefit out of Sanguine anyway

[potent pivot]

SB uptime in pvp is usually quite good

[gleaming pawn]

It definitely won’t have a 100% translation. But it’s one of those things I mean to test for sure

[tacit crane]

would you happen to have a sub build for blitz?

[potent pivot]

The same ones I posted earlier

Sub runs the same builds in all pvp content

[potent pivot]

Yep

Really shows how much testing they do

[warped gate]

That round was an L.

[lime oar]

New build/s pinned or nah?

[potent pivot]

Nah

I posted two earlier if you scroll up

Still testing

[lime oar]

Kk I’m not even online yet just anxious 😂

[potent pivot]

Once I’m more set on the builds I’ll pin some for each spec

[lime oar]

Is our go rotation roughly the same

[potent pivot]

Pretty much but with flag

So you have to ramp

You still want to rupture and make sure you line up Finality with Darkest Night

And you don’t symbols until you’re max flag stacks if possible

It plays a lot different but similar at the same time

[lime oar]

Damn never really used flag

[hidden dome]

Mhhh something looks fishy

[potent pivot]

Maybe they just suck at BGs

[hidden dome]

With hero of the horde?

A 0.5% RBG top placement

[potent pivot]

Ah true

50k achievement points though

Doesn’t look that fishy to me

[hidden dome]

I guess he just bought it

is a collector

who wants pvp mounts

[potent pivot]

I don’t think so

[pastel burrow]

part of me imagines comparing RBG success to Blitz success isn't the most reliable since its like

[hidden dome]

Not being able to find his actual gladiator chars on checkpvp is fishy

[pastel burrow]

playing with everyone on comms vs herding sheep

[potent pivot]

That’s a really old ass account

[hidden dome]

I can get to 1.8 in like 40 games on off meta dps

No way a multi glad would take over 90 games with a meta class

well meta for blitz anyway

[gleaming pawn]

Is there a date in that Hero achievement? Could have easily gotten Hero a long time ago in rbgs

[potent pivot]

Some people get stuck in mmr hell

[worthy crag]

there are ppl who just dont rly care about blitz and only use it to afk farm conq

[gleaming pawn]

Blitz is cancer, if you get into a game with badly geared people or apes just fighting instead of doing objectives, you’re fucked. Get that several games a week and your mmr is fucked

[warped gate]

Why the fuck is this Resto Druid pumping in my Shuffle?!

[hidden dome]

He was complaining that WSG is unfair since horde can block off their mid path with Ring of Peace

The same is true for alliance

That doesn't sound like a 0.5% rbg player to me tbh

[pastel burrow]

might be an inherited account too tbf

[worthy crag]

ive seen a top team priest not have mass dispel keybound before

[potent pivot]

Is that achievement even difficult to get

[worthy crag]

you never rly know

If you just know the right people? probably not

[warped gate]

This Shuffle is wild.

[potent pivot]

Show details

[potent pivot]

lol

[potent pivot]

i saw a clip of a boomie one shot someone earlier

5m Wrath

[warped gate]

That first one was insane, didn't even know what happened.

Of course he loses on my team, I go 2-4.

Pally healer straight up didn't play the game first two rounds.

Sent mans to the Shadow Realm out the gate.

[lime oar]

is the no tea build meme? @potent pivot

[potent pivot]

nope

i don't fuck with meme builds

the no Vanish/Subterfuge is the meme build

[lime oar]

this is wild lol

[potent pivot]

this is the meme build

[gleaming pawn]

It will truly be a magnificent day when Rogue gets the talent pass where they take out most of our 2 point gates like most of the other classes at this point. But we’ll probably be one of the last ones done and who knows what season that will be

[potent pivot]

they just added a 2pt gate

with supercharge

[warped gate]

Yeah, that's wild.

[potent pivot]

it's lame but supercharge being 1pt would be broken

[warped gate]

I had to take a point out of Lethality, ffs.

[gleaming pawn]

Yeah, but that’s because the rest of that row is also 2 point so they gotta follow it. They have stated and been going through all of the classes, reworking the talents and removing the 2 pointers. It’ll happen eventually, if they keep to their word

[near flower]

Eh, sorry but can you explain how does that supercharged works? like pressing sod gives you another 2 cp?

[potent pivot]

it gives 2 +2CP finishers

or 2 +3CP finishers with FI talented with it

it just adds 2 or 3 CP to any finisher

[near flower]

okay make sense, it just shows it as blue cp instead of red

[potent pivot]

yeah, those are just showing you how many charges you have

[warped gate]

That is so unintuitive, especially given that it's replacing ER.

[potent pivot]

yeah i said the same the first time i tested it on PTR

not hard to get used to though

[near flower]

alright, also i tried the build you posted earlier. both have flag, when is it best to send it? i started playing sub rog when sepsis was a thing. so dunno about flag

[potent pivot]

mostly you open with a piss subterfuge opener

either flag->kidney or kidney->build cp->flag->etc

flag is a ramping ability

i'd recommend watching Nahj or check his VOD from today later when you can

[near flower]

i see alright cool, im trying rotations now but it seems kinda laggy at the moment

[potent pivot]

yeah the servers have been kinda borked

[sharp comet]

so ramp to max stacks of flag, then thistle, then symbols/shadow, ST and then DFA

[potent pivot]

kinda yeah

you can also double symbols

[sharp comet]

you, can?

[potent pivot]

for 4 Supercharge total