pvp

[lone anvil]

I dont know what a big pack or HUD is

[grave basin]

just delete it

NOT the addon

you never want to use something like that

instead what you want is something to show you 1) enemy CDs 2) your own defensives 3) external CDs on you

an example (im on my hunter)

you see my wall icon in the center of my character showing the duration

survival of the fittest

so i dont have to look at my buffs to see how long i have left, it's right in the middle of my field of vision

[lone anvil]

gotcha

[potent pivot]

Can make all kinds that show when an enemy uses their offensive CDs

There’s also WAs that tell you when your healer is CC’d

[lone anvil]

Nice. sounds helpful

how accessible is it for me to set something like that up

is there a guide somewhere

[potent pivot]

I mostly make my own, @grave basin Are the skillcapped auras part of the free version?

Those would be a good start if so

I don’t know if Mes has made an updated pack for TWW, a lot of people used his in DF

[lone anvil]

Did you create your own WA

[hidden dome]

worst season I ever played as outlaw

glad it is over

[orchid plinth]

Same thing applies there: if you are new you should make sure you can actually look at the stuff when in the arena.

[hidden dome]

time for less buggy specs

[grave basin]

yes

they are

im using the free version

[potent pivot]

That’s probably what you should start with @lone anvil

I believe you can get it off cursedforge if you search skillcapped

[lone anvil]

Yeah I get you, and to be fair, everything is slightly overwhelming being new and theres way too many things to look at than I consistently actually pay attention to. But I think its still good for me to learn and know how to set up so the tool is there for me to use in the future. Whether i use the tool now or not is kind of irreleevant. I may never get to a point where I need the tool. but having it in my back pocket in case I need it isnt harmful

[orchid plinth]

Try the SkillCapped package it's probably good!

[hidden dome]

looks good

[vague comet]

is there a bug with sparks quest or something?

wtf my sparks quest just dissapeared and i picked it up again

what is this shit game

[indigo hill]

Had the same.

[warped gate]

Same.

I've picked it up at least 5-6 times now.

I would've never noticed it if I wasn't queue for Shuffles near the guy.

[wanton breach]

please buff ele shaman

[sturdy zealot]

is that

negative damage

[lone anvil]

Edited in sure lol

[shy sapphire]

why the 4 tset is not worth as subt, 16% looks huge compare with a few mast

[potent pivot]

Ele dmg is bugged on details

[potent pivot]

It’s only 8% in pvp

Having the mastery for every finisher, always, compared to having the 8% only after sec tech

[lost quest]

#teambuffferal

It only doubles rogue dmg in awc

[surreal barn]

#teamdontbuffferal

[lost quest]

Irony, mate. Irony

[jolly sierra]

buff feral so they ends in F tier

[shy sapphire]

aaah I didnt know that... now it makes sense... 😦

A pitty we cannot see it in the tooltip...

[tribal badger]

we love pvp mods

hiding in the background and forcing u to go on wowhead to see why ur ability/stat/trinket is doing 25% damage

there should be a clear way to see this in game, its part of what makes pvp feel inaccesible for new players imo

[waxen meteor]

Yeah it's anti human design

and basically also just a compromise to take a short cut so pvp/pve designer don't need to speak wiz each other

[tribal badger]

i just dont get why

is it too hard to make it so theres a way to show pvp tooltips

or show pvp mods on tooltips as an option in settings

so u can see "oh the top builds dont take this talent because it has a 0.5 pvp mod on it!"

needing to go to wowhead is so dumb

[potent pivot]

I’m pretty sure they do

Idek if they have separate teams, it might just be combat design

[tribal badger]

i mean its an easy way for them to tune between pvp and pve i get it

its just frustrating that its not explained anywhere ingame

like a new player in pvp probably wouldnt even know crit is heavily nerfed in pvp and thats why basically nobody, not even heavy crit focused pve classes, go crit in pvp

not explaining stuff like this in ur game just makes new players not wanna engage with pvp more

[waxen meteor]

i think it's very easy to show tooltip with * notes
at the barely minimum, designer needs to show tooltip of talent and skills of both pve and pvp at same screen and show the difference

[brazen burrow]

What weapon enchant do we use as Assa and Sub?

[pale storm]

Surely it’d be an easy minor ui fix. Since wowhead has the info it must have been data mined so the info in game right?

[brazen burrow]

Depths or Radiant Power?

[potent pivot]

radiant power

[potent pivot]

all tooltips update to their pvp values in pvp combat/pvp instances

that's why i don't get why there's so many complaints about it all the time, but i guess not everyone is going to know that

[tribal badger]

they update to their new values

they dont tell you why

ur ability suddenly does 25% damage

u should be able to see what is modded and what isnt by pvp at any time via options

you should be able to see that crits are nerfed to 150%

etc

like if a new rogue player is trying to learn pvp and thinks ok i have this awesome build and im gunna 8s kidney shot someone then burst them

then all their kidneys are 5s how do they understand why just playing the video game

they dont, they come here and ask or go to wowhead because blizzard is too lazy to implement their hidden spell modifiers for pvp only in the actual game in a readable way

same for talents like ace nerf, bte crit damage being heavily modded down etc

[potent pivot]

wdym

[tribal badger]

u see the tooltip damage go down by x%

[potent pivot]

nvm i see what you mean

[tribal badger]

the game doesnt tell u why it went down

[potent pivot]

fried atm

[tribal badger]

all g

i just think it helps with accesibility of these things

if theres options to see what pvp mods are applying/what they do

[potent pivot]

well

the biggest issue

[tribal badger]

like would a new outlaw player ever know that ace is nerfed in pvp and that BtE is masively modded down crit damage wise

[potent pivot]

is keeping tooltips at a decent size while also keeping them as clear as concise as possible

[tribal badger]

theyd just wonder why they get so few procs and why their bte hits for like 25% of the damage in pvp it does in pve

[waxen meteor]

it's unhuman way of read

[potent pivot]

which is already quite challenging apparently

[tribal badger]

sure thats why it should be a toggalable option

[waxen meteor]

i don't know why you feel surprised

[tribal badger]

"show pvp modifiers"

[waxen meteor]

when you read tooltip, normally you are not in a combat

[tribal badger]

there is literally nowhere in game to go to see how pvp effects things

and it effects so many things

[waxen meteor]

rare people will read tooltip during fighting a pvp dummy

[tribal badger]

classes have secondaries that have extra DRs in pvp only, stuff like that

[potent pivot]

you don't have to be in combat

[waxen meteor]

or even during a real pvp fight

[potent pivot]

just in a BG waiting room even

[waxen meteor]

lol in order to read a skill i need to be in bg waiting room

[potent pivot]

i'd argue that people that play pvp seriously enough that they need to know these things - know these things

[waxen meteor]

that's literally what's wrong

[potent pivot]

i've never had an issue

[waxen meteor]

it doesn't have to be serious
you want to play pvp
you want to read the talent at least
and where to read the talent?
go to pvp situations

instead of just always keep two lines of text all the time

[tribal badger]

i mean im specifically saying this for ease of access to players trying to learn pvp, definitly not for hardcore pvpers lol

i think a game should provide you the info of how a game mode is massively modifying abilities

[waxen meteor]

yeah

[tribal badger]

more then just u enter bg and u see one of ur secondaries decrease/several of ur abilities damage massively reduced

[waxen meteor]

you either be a hardcore fan that reads this 247

or you are put in a very bad condition

[tribal badger]

or at least the option to see that info

[potent pivot]

i don't think anything is massively modified enough for the average player to be concerned with

[waxen meteor]

and worst part is that, it's not difficult to help people read easier

[potent pivot]

not at all actually

[tribal badger]

really

[waxen meteor]

i completely dis-agree, like this tier set thing

[tribal badger]

i feel like this would be big for trinkets

so many new players i see trying to use pve trinkets in pvp over honor or crafted

because oh this hits for 4m in pve

this sounds fun in bgs

wait this does 200k damage in bgs

[waxen meteor]

it's like every day we got people asking tier pvp modifier

[tribal badger]

what is happening

[waxen meteor]

in this channel

right here

[potent pivot]

no we don't

[waxen meteor]

and it's all due to text tooltip

fine

you can insisit it's a good idea

i feel that's simply horrible

and it requires little effort to make it a lot better and convenient

[potent pivot]

doesn't take long to learn

[tribal badger]

yes

and how do u learn

can u learn just reading the ingame stuff

[waxen meteor]

wait in bg to read tooltip

[hidden moth]

I wasn’t saying it’s a be all end all just something that helps me

[tribal badger]

no u go to wowhead or a discord and ask why ur trinket does 1/10th damage in bgs

why doesnt the game provide this info

[potent pivot]

if you really think they should be required to add the pvp tuning to every pve trinket

[tribal badger]

even as a setting

[potent pivot]

god help you

[hidden moth]

The w/a is a pve w/a but it just follows base rotation stuff

[tribal badger]

yes i dont think its unreasonable to have a setting u click that shows "damage reduced by 75% in pvp combat" on trinkets with pvp mods

[hidden moth]

I went to sleep for work sorry for late reply

[tribal badger]

doesnt seem crazy at all to me

[waxen meteor]

it's like a 3MDs tech change at most

[potent pivot]

i'm saying i don't see the point in the whining

[waxen meteor]

and it makes a lot of people life 2000 times easier

[potent pivot]

if you guys feel so strongly about it - write some feedback somewhere instead of complaining

[tribal badger]

oh i mean dont get me wrong i dont think this is a massive issue. im complaining because it bothers me when lazy developers dont do this kinda stuff because they know if any player is actually confused about it, they will just go to a rogue discord or wowhead guide

to figure out why

[potent pivot]

make constructive criticism in the correct channels

[tribal badger]

i dont like when games dont provide u info, even if u need to click an optional setting to see that info

[potent pivot]

instead of this

[tribal badger]

i feel like there used to be an advanced tooltip option in the interface settings years ago

idr what it did tho this was like wod era

[hidden moth]

In tricks defense. How many times do we get dumb questions bc the English blizz puts in their tool tips is equivalent to a dog trying to communicate by pressing 1 of 30 buttons on the floor

Do we really want blizz to have to. Add more to those tool tips

[waxen meteor]

[potent pivot]

personally i don't

i think this shit would only add to the majority of the playerbase's confusion

"what is this toggle???" "why do i need this??"

[tribal badger]

yes i do

as long as its an option u turn on

[potent pivot]

"all my pve items say they do less damage did i brick my character?!?"

[tribal badger]

i mean a person that is confused by "this item does reduced damage in pvp" is gunna be asking 10 million questions regardless of how obvious tooltips are

[hidden moth]

“Why does death mark only do 50% damage dup”

[potent pivot]

let's be real, anyone who thinks a pve trinket is good in pvp these days, is going to be one of those people regardless of having a setting for it or not bro

[tribal badger]

maybe sure

doesnt change how i feel about this at all tho

the game should provide u all the information u need to know about why an ability is changing between game modes even as an optional toggle

🤷 thats just how i feel

[potent pivot]

i would much rather them focus on more pvp tuning

than this

[tribal badger]

i highly doubt the people who write the tooltip code of abilities is the same design team that tunes pvp

hate when people act like completely different teams eat time up from other teams

[potent pivot]

i think you'd be very surprised

[tribal badger]

i would be very very surprised yes

[potent pivot]

none of us know exactly how the inner workings of their company work

[tribal badger]

id be surprised if the people that do the pvp mods on abilities are even the same as the team that makes the classes abilities personally

for sure we dont know

[potent pivot]

so i don't get why you act like you'd know any better than others

[tribal badger]

because its just a copout argument for me idk, it sounds the same as when people are like "i hate this pvp tuning, now the next raid is gunna be worse" like they know that it shares design time

its true both ways right

[hidden moth]

After much debate we are making predators swiftness make cyclone instant cast again. We are also allowing it to be cast in cat form

[tribal badger]

we dont know if it does or doesnt

[potent pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/simpsons-bart-gif-6078885

[tribal badger]

imagine this feral with instant clone

season would be over

its a cats world we r just playing in it

[hidden moth]

World of Warcraft the furry within

[potent pivot]

that's completely different

[tribal badger]

to me writing tooltips and doing the math to tune classes in pvp are also completely different

dont seem more similar anyway

but we dont need to keep this convo going

like i said i dont feel strongly that this is hurting pvp, i just hate design like this

[potent pivot]

we know that encounter design is separate

[lone anvil]

Im in agreement about the ease of access stuff. I didn't even know crit was nerfed in PvP until I read @tribal badger's rant lol

[potent pivot]

it has been for a very long time iirc

[wintry dew]

it wasnt in SL

then it got nerfed back

[lone anvil]

He's talking about new players and I'm a new/returning player

And I was agreeing that didn't know that

Which is exactly what his point was

Its not stated anywhere in game

[potent pivot]

i'm almost positive it was actually

iirc it was 175% dmg in SL then reduced to 150%

[lone anvil]

Where is that information stated for players at

[potent pivot]

like i could agree with a tutorial for the big basic shit like crit or tier sets

even though they've announced multiple times that tier sets should all be nerfed by 50% in pvp

i just don't think tooltips need to get any more overcomplicated

[tribal badger]

i mean stuff like this wouldnt need to be on any particular tooltip

[wintry dew]

yeah i meant the crit dmg was "higher" in the start of SL, before .1 and then nerfed

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/pvp-crit-damage-nerf-from-175-to-150-and-elemental/440868

[tribal badger]

the pvp section of the queues thing should state it

like "in pvp combat crit damage is reduced by 50% and tier sets are 50% value"

since that is a global pvp mod, not an ability modifier

but yes its silly its stated nowhere in the entire game

u need to go to a discord or google it to find patch notes that say it

[wintry dew]

wait this post is DF

[lone anvil]

Yeah in eso when you're in PvP you have a debuff that says "healing is reduced by x% and health Regen is reduced by X%

And it's called battle spirit

[potent pivot]

that's when they nerfed it further, from 175 to 150

[lone anvil]

And you have the battle spirit debuff whenever you enter any PvP area

[potent pivot]

see now something like that, i can get behind, sure

or even a window that covers the pvp queue window your first time opening it

like when you first log into a new season type thing

[tribal badger]

ya like it does for dungeons and such exactly like that

[tender ember]

Why would u even care of modifiers, i dont understand ppl that are bragging there is no tooltip or sth

[tribal badger]

is should just be like "welcome to pvp season X, in pvp crits are modified down by X % and yada yada"

like players who dont need this info cause they are hardcore always just click this thing away every season anyway

same for m+

[potent pivot]

what

[tribal badger]

but having the info there for new players would be nice

[potent pivot]

i don't think anyone is bragging about anything

[tender ember]

what does it change if there is tooltip

tier set is 50% in pvp

[potent pivot]

some people are of the opinion that it's confusing for newer/returning players

[tender ember]

ye i can possibly think of it, but the modifiers for newcomers

are last thing they should ever get into xd

[potent pivot]

the crit nerf and tier set nerfs i can see needing an announcement somewhere

[tender ember]

still i dont see a real point

[potent pivot]

the amount of new sin rogues i've seen stacking crit is actually wild

[tender ember]

thats not problem of no tooltip

[potent pivot]

i just don't think there's a reason for tooltips of abilities to change

ye

[tender ember]

its problem of IQ where to find good information

[lone anvil]

I'm extra sad cause I have 5 pieces with crit on them

#pain

[tribal badger]

why cant some of the good information be in the video game they are playing

would it be bad for the video game itself to provide that info

[tender ember]

cos its not needed

[potent pivot]

not inherently no - obviously. the issue is implementation. can it be implemented without causing even more confusion than there was beforehand etc

i think for reasons like this; it hasn't already been done up to now

but honestly the same type of thing could be said for the entire game if you really think about it

how does everyone know what's best in pve? sims, discords, and wowhead guides etc

[runic trench]

@lone anvil did you get your wa situation sorted lmao

[lone anvil]

Wait what does for dungeons

[lone anvil]

I'm not sure what I'm doing yet. I found a default WA but it doesn't track everything I want it to like deathstalker mark and healer being CCd

[potent pivot]

when you first log in to a new season there's a window that pops up telling you what kind of activites there is to do

[runic trench]

healer cc weakaura is a good one

download the skillcapped ui

its pretty good

[potent pivot]

it's just a little pop up window announcing the new raid and dungeons etc

[potent pivot]

https://wago.io/Dl9GhMDxH

iirc this is the one i use, it's really nice

[lone anvil]

Ty guys

[potent pivot]

https://wago.io/HgG0KT41b

this one is kinda wild into rdru

[runic trench]

this is what my screen looks like

[dapper chasm]

I see redundancy

[hidden moth]

Both cut into blizzards budget for “PvP content”

[tribal badger]

i dont believe that but if u wanna sure

[dapper chasm]

Blizzard lacks the bravery to do the right thing in rated PvP

[hidden moth]

That’s dampening

[dapper chasm]

If arena was an actual straight up homogenised setting, the game would be better for it - you enter and are GIVEN gear. On top of that a good 30-50% of abilities are disabled

[tribal badger]

legion kinda did that

they considered it a failed experiment i believe

[dapper chasm]

If it were up to me, I would not even have auto-attack damage variety - you just hit for X

Keep crits though

[hidden moth]

It’s not thattt bad

[dapper chasm]

What went wrong?

[hidden moth]

Bc they relied on modders since classic to do programming for free

[tribal badger]

i agree actually

i just consider that lazy

and think they shuld stop

[tribal badger]

idk players just didnt vibe with it?

[hidden moth]

Skill capped noooo

[tribal badger]

made pvp less popular

[runic trench]

its pretty good

[tribal badger]

in legion, ur gear didnt matter other then ilvl

[dapper chasm]

You realise what that says about the complainers?

[tribal badger]

when u entered pvp u get a preset stat template based on ur spec

[dapper chasm]

"I want an advantage"

[tribal badger]

increasing ur ilvl gave 1% more stats

it means they want to feel like they are playing a rpg even in pvp ig

idk

[runic trench]

that was the worst

[tribal badger]

i dont really care either way

[runic trench]

because the pvp dev had no idea

[potent pivot]

"i want power progression in my mmo"

[runic trench]

and the stats were fucked

some specs literally sucked because their template sucked

[hidden moth]

No that’s just final fantasy and gives 0 choice and makes classes cookie cutter

[tribal badger]

power progression is pretty core to an rpg

this is an rpg at the end of the day

even if sometimes they forget

[dapper chasm]

You got it though - just not if you wana be competitive in PvP

[tribal badger]

i mean this is all a nonexistant issue in competative pvp already if you are talking about pvp for money

since they play those on the tourny realms

[dapper chasm]

A more cookie-cutter game is better for balance and competitive appeal

[tribal badger]

the pvp you can queue for in the game is considered part of the rpg aspect though

[hidden moth]

“I want diversity”

[tribal badger]

which is why it works this way

[dapper chasm]

You got it, loads of classes, each with specs

[hidden moth]

Cookie cutter game gets boring bc it’s the same every match

[dapper chasm]

As it should be, man

Different outcomes still occur but based less on luck

[hidden moth]

13 classes isn’t “loads” look at ff and guild wars

[dapper chasm]

Don't need to, one class is enough for me!

[potent pivot]

there's nothing wrong with skill capped ui..?

[hidden moth]

How is it luck based? Me knowing to take big cloak into feral instead of disarm is skill expression not luck

[lone anvil]

Or look at ESO where every class can use any combination of weapons and weapon skill lines and any combination of 2-4 out of the 600+ sets.

[hidden moth]

I have personal vendetta with skill capped

[dapper chasm]

Yeah, but that would stay

[hidden moth]

They okay for general info but half of it’s wrong misleading

[dapper chasm]

Luck is being outgeared or not

[hidden moth]

You said cookie cutter build

[potent pivot]

what

[lone anvil]

I do miss when people were able to make unique builds from talents.

[dapper chasm]

Plus, what about balance, it's much harder to balance a spec into armor tiers

[hidden moth]

Implies 0 build diversity same with everyone having the exact same stats

[lone anvil]

Shockadin was viable. Enhancement shaman could offtank or play 2h shammy

[hidden moth]

Nun ignore me

[potent pivot]

you know skill capped consists of r1 and tourney players for it's info right

[dapper chasm]

Builds remain, just not gear

[lone anvil]

There were more viable options

[tribal badger]

some builds within a spec require different secondaries then others

[hidden moth]

They still can

[potent pivot]

and we're talking about a ui, not guides

[tribal badger]

if you remove changing stats you reduce build diversity

[dapper chasm]

I wish I can log on and play this game without all the chores - I think millions of others do too

[lone anvil]

Kind of

[tribal badger]

the chores are what keep millions of players playing this game at all

pvpers i think would largely agree with u

but pvpers have very few chores to do now a day

with the vault change

[dapper chasm]

Nah, more people have left than joined

[lone anvil]

Its easier now than ever IMO

[dapper chasm]

I wish we kept more of the LoL people

[lone anvil]

Leveling alts is so easy. Gearing is super easy

[dapper chasm]

A lot of competitive players moved away

And they had viewership

[tribal badger]

wow is not a good game to watch for competative pvp

[hidden moth]

Idk I feel like lol players make wow toxicity look like day care

[lone anvil]

None of this feels like super Grindy chore mode if you played classic -wotlk

[runic trench]

everyone always just went what was best

[tribal badger]

i would be surprised if less then 90% of the people watching awc werent already avid pvpers

its not getting new fans

theres too much involved with classes

[runic trench]

not having vault is so good

[tribal badger]

if you dont know pvp and you only know ur class, you dont know whats going on in alot of arenas

[runic trench]

i dont even do world quests

or the weekly quests

[tribal badger]

its the way the game has always been

[runic trench]

i literally sit in city all day

[dapper chasm]

I kinda feel like WoW has a really amazing game mode in it, and I can't recommend it to ANYONE. I really like BGs/Arena, but not so much the chores

[potent pivot]

the viewership has kinda been going up since SL

[tribal badger]

it has! they have done things to catch new pvp fans

[potent pivot]

nothing crazy obv

[tribal badger]

improving warmode, brawls, bg stuff

[runic trench]

whats ER

[lone anvil]

What chores lol

[tribal badger]

i just dont think stuff like AWC is really drawing new players to pvp

[runic trench]

farming renown

[hidden moth]

Yeah but in pvp u had to farm bis heroic pve pieces otherwise u we’re out geared

[dapper chasm]

I'm not even BiS yet

[tribal badger]

its really hard to make a clean pvp ui for people that dont play the game

[runic trench]

farming curriencies for random bs

[lone anvil]

There's literally the least grind now then ever before @dapper chasm

[potent pivot]

echoing reprimand?

[lone anvil]

No body else is BiS we are all at the same stage

[runic trench]

ah i see

[tribal badger]

ur not bis because blizzard timegate the currency. you need to log on once a week and do like 2 hours of content to get ur currency cap

[runic trench]

his name was just dont ask about er

[dapper chasm]

Yeah, and it's better, right? I say follow this to the logical conclusion here

[tribal badger]

not because you've been grinding since week 1 and its taken this long to get

[lone anvil]

Nah everything is about balance.

[tribal badger]

pvp only streamers log on after reset and legit do 1 hour of "chores" and are done with chores for the week

[runic trench]

i dont know why pvp gear is gated

[tribal badger]

its fine

[runic trench]

its shit in pve anyway

[dapper chasm]

That's what I'm saying

[runic trench]

its not like we have a race to wf

[tribal badger]

well, its not always shit in pve

[dapper chasm]

Yeah, that hour sucks ass

[potent pivot]

so that no lifers don't get such a significant advantage over casuals as weeks pass

[tribal badger]

for outlaw it was recommended to pvp before raid in early weeks to craft a bunch of jewlery

[lone anvil]

Take leveling for instance. Leveling is easier. But it's on the verge of being too easy you don't have time to learn the class. I leveled 46-68 in like 2 hours and got ten new abilities

[hidden moth]

Or wait till it’s uncapped

[tribal badger]

or that yup

[dapper chasm]

I was typing some shit but my hot takes are too fire

[hidden moth]

I mean, pvp gear is equal to normal raid gear

[dapper chasm]

But remove gear in rated

[lone anvil]

You need a happy medium in the middle. Some grind is good for the game.

But the game is in a good spot IMO

[dapper chasm]

I don't much care for the game I guess

And millions of others over time also

But plenty wish they could just play

[potent pivot]

soon we'll have nothing but a Plunderstorm copy to play don't worry

[dapper chasm]

What's that?

[hidden moth]

Fortnite in wow

[lone anvil]

What's keeping you from just playing

[tribal badger]

plunderstorm was a banger

[hidden moth]

Dumbest game mode ever

[tribal badger]

loved that shit

hope they bring it back in another map

dont think it should ever be a perma game mode tho

fun in small doses

[hidden moth]

I didn’t like it bc it dried up my arena ques

[potent pivot]

i love the parallels of people loving or hating plunderstorm lmao

[tribal badger]

the tournies for it were hilarious too

[dapper chasm]

Keeping up with the Jones' gear and not being able to get friends into it

But I do play - this is just a wish

[lone anvil]

It is hard to get friends into it, but I don't know any MMO that's perfect in that regard. But WoW seems to have a steep entry point even compared to others I'll agree

[hidden moth]

I like gear bc it lets me change stats to what I want vs what the game thinks I want

[potent pivot]

it's not competing with other MMOs when it comes to pvp

[hidden moth]

We ALL SAW how blizz set up pvp weapons

[tribal badger]

i like a sense of progression

[potent pivot]

it's competing with pvp games

like FPS and MOBAs

[tribal badger]

yea i mean wows pvp scene is about 500X any mmo on the market currently or thats ever been on the market

so people only compare it to games designed soloy for pvp

[hidden moth]

If u wanted a haste vers wep.. get fucked kid bc ur quest gives a free crit mastery wep

[tribal badger]

and it definitly pales compared to most of those

[dapper chasm]

Well, whatever WoW is doing, it's holding my PvP hostage

[lone anvil]

Game still ain't perfect xD

[hidden moth]

This

[hidden moth]

Didn’t claim it was

[lone anvil]

Huh?????

[tribal badger]

i could use another example too

i played pvp in gw2 hardcore when that gamec ame out

loved their pvp

active dodging, iframes, etc

pvp had two modes, spvp which is basically the gear agnostic template version

[hidden moth]

Just if we can’t expect blizz to give us good patches (op mist weaver getting buffs again and again and more to come, feral dodging nerfs) how can we expect them to know what stats a class wants

[tribal badger]

and wvw where it was servers facing each other, all pve gear and such effective

the most popular by a mile was always wvw

[hidden moth]

Sounds like dark souls PvP

[tribal badger]

spvp was alot of fun but very few people played it

[lone anvil]

I was just defending WoW pvp to zanaken and telling him this game is in a good place and then you mentioned getting crit daggers when you don't want them so I said "yeah no games perfect" but I still stand by wow PvP being much better than I've seen in awhile and much less Grindy

[potent pivot]

oh they know

[lone anvil]

So what I have to use crit weapons..not ideal. But if that's WoWs one criticism they're not doing bad

[hidden moth]

U replied to my comment though xD so I thought it was directed to me

[potent pivot]

they're just not loading every single stat combination on the conquest vendors

[dapper chasm]

You don't need to defend it, we both clearly play it - I'm just saying follow the thought through

[lone anvil]

I already addressed this and you had nothing to say

I'm not typing my essay for you again

[dapper chasm]

I just aint a scrolling man

It's gone, dude

[hidden moth]

He said “tldr”

[jolly sierra]

its zanaken, dont expect he is not toying w u rn lol

[lone anvil]

Balance. Its about balance. You talk about how less grind is better so follow that through.....that's not true. There is too much of a good thing.

I mentioned how leveling characters is faster now, which is better than it was in classic by a long shot, but it's almost too far in the direction of being easy mode now because you cant learn a class or complete a storyline when leveling because you level too fast. I leveled from 46-68 in two hours and got ten new abilities.

The same logic can be applied to reducing grind in other parts of the game.

For one having good rewards come from completing tasks is a good way to get engagement. I don't know if you have played a game with meaningless rewards but alot of people stop PvPing when they get everything.

I'm like you. Id pvp with zero rewards. But not everyone thinks like us. The other day I invited people to world pvp and take Ironforge or Stormwind and they said "I already have the mount, sorry"

[dapper chasm]

My brother in Christ, my 2 wishes solve all that

Remove gear in rated + remove 30-50% of abilities

[lone anvil]

I agree with removing abilities not sure about gear. Proceed

[dapper chasm]

It would make the game more skill based and allow entry

PvP wise

The dragons are still there

[lone anvil]

But what's the incentive

[dapper chasm]

For what?

[lone anvil]

If gear is taken out of the equation

To queue

Why are people going to play

[dapper chasm]

The vP part?

I fucking love it

[lone anvil]

Didn't you read what I wrote about how pvp without meaningful rewards drives engagement down

[hidden moth]

Ability’s I disagree on

[lone anvil]

You're replying to what I'm saying without reading what im saying

[hidden moth]

Some classes have bloat yes make a few buttons passive or procs etc

[alpine tinsel]

is Gladius ever coming back up to date or

[dapper chasm]

You can't just say shit and thus it's true, my man

[lone anvil]

It is true.

[hidden moth]

But I want minimum 25-30 different ability’s a spec

[potent pivot]

there's multiple up to date versions

[lone anvil]

This discord is living proof

[dapper chasm]

It's demonstrably not true, look at other titles with competitive PvP

[alpine tinsel]

Gladius specifically? not Gex

[hidden moth]

Destiny 2? The dying game

[dapper chasm]

CoD still has more players than Destiny 2 or WoW

[lone anvil]

One of the biggest reasons ESO pvp is dying out of like a thousand reasons if the rewards suck/ mean nothing to most people

[dapper chasm]

I'm saying WoW is missing the narket despite having great ammo for it

[potent pivot]

look up "gladius" on curseforge and delete your old version, install a more recently updated version. there's like 5 or 6 different ones up

[hidden moth]

FPS will always be more popular than mmos

[lone anvil]

CoD still uses rewards to drive engagement

[potent pivot]

league and dota

[lone anvil]

With the battle pass

[alpine tinsel]

I have the dragonflight but ill try that

[tribal badger]

i dont know how u can say wow is missing the market for this when no mmo with a pvp community as large or lasting as wow has ever existed

[hidden moth]

Those arnt mmos

Those are mobas

[potent pivot]

they aren't supposed to be

[tribal badger]

and there have been multiple mmorpgs with instanced, templated gearless pvp

[potent pivot]

they're pvp games

...

[lone anvil]

CoD is not an exception to my point. CoD proves my point

[hidden moth]

Of which war craft 3 invented MOBAs

[tribal badger]

so i really dont know by what metric you could have the idea "wow needs to change its pvp to gain a market of mmorpg pvpers"

wow is and has always had the biggest pvp community of basically any mmorpg on the market

[lone anvil]

I've been sitting In a Kroger parking lot arguing with you fools for 20 min

[tribal badger]

its the one thats done it best

🤷

[lone anvil]

I'm going to go get my twisted teas

[tribal badger]

now it can always get better

[potent pivot]

how does that matter rn

[tribal badger]

and im always down for them trying new things

im just saying they tried something close to what ur describing in legion

[hidden moth]

This

[tribal badger]

and the pvp community hated it

[dapper chasm]

Well, I personally can say there are people I would turn to the game (PvP) if it was more accessible - and I dare say a lot of you can say the same

[tribal badger]

which is why they didnt go that direction

no i wouldnt

because i dont know any players that would play this game just for its pvp

they see it as an mmorpg

[hidden moth]

I disagree I know most friends refuse it bc of micro cc

[tribal badger]

a cod focused player is never going to care how good wow pvp is if they didnt have an interest in mmorpgs to begin with

[lone anvil]

I think any PC game is going to have a harder point of access.

Console games you sit on your couch and chill.

PC games you're upright at a desk with addons and shit.

[dapper chasm]

Me and my friends aren't into genres, we're into competitive PvP games

The genre

[hidden moth]

Not every pc game allows addons most ban them

[tribal badger]

yea i dont know anyone like that

every one of my gamer friends i could easily catagorize into the types of games i could get them to try

but that might just be my friends

[hidden moth]

I try to play multipul genres but there is always going to be one genre gamers prefer more and will put time into

[dapper chasm]

I was showing the game to a few people the other day, and they said it looked really fun but "fuck all that to play"

[hidden moth]

Competitive games can be single player as well so “competitive” isn’t exactly a genre

[dapper chasm]

Arena is just so different to the rest of the game, it literally has it's own numbers, rules

And it's trapped

[hidden moth]

U can’t expect it to be balanced like pve is

[lone anvil]

True. But my point still stands. For most people a controller and a couch is more welcoming than a mouse keyboard and desk. I know I'm making generalizations of course. But they are generally true.

I loved playing ESO on a PS5 and I'd love if there was a simplified wow version for PS5.

But I don't struggle to get people into WoW. WoW is a household name. More of my friends IRL play wow than eso even with an arguably harder point of access. WoW has the brand. They had vern Troyer and mr t commercials for christs sake

A console wow would kill

[hidden moth]

Play ur pc with a controller on ur couch

[dapper chasm]

I wana say that to the PvE'rs

[lone anvil]

Too many skills in wow

[dapper chasm]

"Yo, you can't expect the dragon stuff to be balanced like PvP is"

[hidden moth]

@lone anvil I can show u rn a glad who plays sub rogue on a controller

[tribal badger]

yes that is true and they would agree

im confused whats being said here

[lone anvil]

That would be so cool

[tribal badger]

pretty sure schtabby is saying you cant expect to have the same values in pvp and pve because numbers need to be much larger in pve

not that tuning is better in pve then it is in pvp

[potent pivot]

people play ff14 entirely on controller

doing the same for wow isn't too difficult

[hidden moth]

Terra as well

[lone anvil]

Just because there is one who is though doesn't make my overall point untrue. Console is more welcoming to more people.

[potent pivot]

i think that's going to become less and less true

as more time passes, more and more people are realizing PC is the better platform

[jolly sierra]

what bout the feral elite?

w the controller lol

[hidden moth]

Game pass ps releasing exclusives to steam

[lone anvil]

Really? I always assumed the opposite. My nephew is 10 and I've heard podcasts about his generation and how most of them never even touched a mouse they all grew up on tablets

[tribal badger]

i mean i know a suprising amount of mmorpg controller players and all of them still play it on pc

just with a controller

[lone anvil]

But my nephew loves fortnite on PS5 he's way better than me

[tribal badger]

i think i know 6 off the top of my head which isnt a ton but a surprising amount to me

i cant imagine playing it without a mouse and keyboard ngl

[potent pivot]

i mean you're talking about kids

[lone anvil]

Yeah but that generation doesn't know how to use mouses and computers

[potent pivot]

even league's general demographic is teen or older

[hidden moth]

Most pc games allow controller usage

[lone anvil]

They all get tablets at home and at school

Its a real thing lol

Bro we are the older generation now

[hidden moth]

Tablets are basically pcs

[potent pivot]

consoles are getting more expensive and PCs are getting generally cheaper for higher performance

it's a basic thing

[hidden moth]

A 1k prebuilt will outlast ur 500$ ps5

[potent pivot]

a $500 dollar PC compared to a $500 ps5 even

[lone anvil]

People don't care about how long things last it's called planned obsolescence

Its so people can buy the newest iPhone and the newest car. Ever wonder why cars dont last like they did in the 79s

The consumer wants what's new not what lasts

[potent pivot]

We’re talking about something that’s already happening man

PC has been growing while consoles have been declining for quite a while now

[lone anvil]

That may be true I guess none of us can predict the future. I've heard a lot of things echoing the topic of this reddit post though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/s/30HBu6rzck

[hidden moth]

Bro I bought my prebuilt in 2019

For 1k and its little ass 1660 super is going strong xD

[hidden moth]

Parents can’t afford it bc exonomy

[lone anvil]

So Google planned obsolescence. Its kind of fucked up but it was basically driven by what consumers wanted/desired

[potent pivot]

Everyone had to learn how to use a pc at some point

[hidden moth]

U don’t get shot out the crotch hole know how to type 60 wpm

[jolly sierra]

i used a 2014 laptop and got my 2k4 for first time w it

dont think gear is all, lit u can play w trash and do magic

gear is a complement, not the core

[hidden moth]

Yeah I remember in df hitting 1800 on dh with legit just 2 piece and full honor gear

[jolly sierra]

the laptop was an office one BTW, wasnt made for gaming

[hidden moth]

^

I just wanna upgrade mine so I can play both accounts at once

[jolly sierra]

i did that in 2023

never regretted anything

[gilded gulch]

my first elite i got without a dr tracker

💀

assa rog dam is ok

[jolly sierra]

ye, the thing is gear doesnt makes you good without the base skills

[jolly sierra]

maybe will try blitz, tbh fkn job dried me out OOF

[gilded gulch]

i havent checked blitz q times since week 1

[jolly sierra]

they are like 15-20m average in EU at least

[hidden moth]

@jolly sierra na has them 5-15 min depending on time of day and mmr

[jolly sierra]

that sounds nice

[hidden moth]

2400-2600 mmr ques popin off

[fallen scaffold]

been away for 2 weeks.. why is there so many more sub rogues?

something happen to asssa?

[jolly sierra]

i think was for AWC

and skill capped tier list

[graceful ravine]

what about the rise of outlaw rogues?

[hidden moth]

Not allowed

[hidden moth]

Sub just bis pvp spec rn

Assa got buffs but 11.0.5 I’m predicting assa will be bis pvp rogue spec

[lone anvil]

Guys is there a way for me tp open up a ticket in game for WoW

[hidden moth]

A ticket for what

[lone anvil]

So I did some 3s on my rDruid tonight. It was really fun and we won a lot.

I unlocked the tokens from hitting 2500 Conquest. I bought the wrong staff accidentally. I bought the feral one with agility not the intellect one.

I tried selling it back to the vendor and he just gave me gold even though online it said I had 2 hours to refund

[outer sky]

how many more weeks until conquest cap is gone again?

[hidden moth]

Did u equip it then try to sell it to him?

U can make a ticket in game it’s gonna be in the bottom right by menu options talents etc should be under support or sum.

If u equipped it and then tried to swap it gl.

Also if u bought the wrong wep, and then make a ticket about it blizz will prob take 3-7 days to reply to ur ticket, say “it said “are you sure you wish to purchase this” and it said “equipping this will make it non-refundable” so your fault for not reading the text and accepting it anyways. Gl next time kid”- blizz

[hidden moth]

Uhh, prob a month

If not 2

Not including weapons it takes 9275 conq for full conq gear from vendor( if u don’t craft with the 9 free tokens which is 175 each so free 1575 conq)

Puts us at about 9275 conq req and a free 1575 conq of crafted stuff so conq cap would need to be 7700 for us to hit full conq gear. If u hit 1600 that’s a -875 for 6825 conq

So we at 4k for cap at 600 a week increase. Conq prob uncaps in 6825-4000= 2825/600 =4.71 so 4-8weeks @outer sky

Depends on if they decide to uncap it when we are just short 70% of a reset to get a full set of conq gear if u have free wep and 1600 piece with using all the free crafting items. Or they could uncap it when conq cap is so high we have enough to buy every item off the vendor without using the 9 craft tokens the free 1600 piece or the free weps

[lone anvil]

i guess I dont understand why they claim you have 2 hours to refund something if equipping it nullifys that

why cant you return something after its equipped? is there an exploit?

most people equip something as soon as they buy it

if its an upgrade

[fervent shell]

I don't think you can refund the weapons you get from the free emblems regardless

[lone anvil]

so im cooked

[outer sky]

they said conq cap ends on week 11 of the season

so what week are we on now

[hidden moth]

It says so in the tool tip

Bc if u accidentally buy u have 2 hours to refund or if u get loot y have 2 hours to trade

But if u use it it becomes soul bound

Imagine buying stick using stick for 1hour vendor buy other stick use it vendor and just have 2 weps

[lone anvil]

Yeah I'm just saying people make mistakes and if you're going to have a refund policy why not let people refund even if it's equipped? Im confused, is there a way people can exploit that?

[hidden moth]

5

[lone anvil]

I don't know why they're stingy it doesn't cost them anything

[hidden moth]

I just gave an example

Also I could get a mythic chest in raid

Put it on pass it to ally

Then my chest piece upgrades are cheap af till I match that ilvl basically making it so 1 chest piece drop is 2

[lone anvil]

I don't understand this example but I understood the other one

[hidden moth]

It’s been like this ever since 2 hour tradings window on loot for soul bound items was a thing

To upgrade items u need valor stones and crests

If I have a piece at 606 and another at 580 I can upgrade the 580 to 606 for free

[lone anvil]

I know it's my mistake. But still wish their policy was more lienent. Almost anytime Ive wanted to refund something , invariably I've been disqualified every single time because the item was equipped

[hidden moth]

I mean

[lone anvil]

But it seems weird that someone would get an upgrade and not immediately equip it

[hidden moth]

It asked are u sure 2x homie

Fine print

[lone anvil]

Yeah but put yourself in my shoes

[hidden moth]

Loot council

[lone anvil]

What's that?

[hidden moth]

I’ve been there it suxks

That’s why I read the fine print

[lone anvil]

So people are out here getting upgrades and not immediately equipping

Refund seems useless

How many people actually benefit from it

[hidden moth]

Raid group 20 players kills mythic boss 5 items drop, loot council looks at the people eligible for each item, figures who hasn’t gotten loot in a bit who has prio for which item who contributes more who is there on time who is a vet and who is a trial then loot council decides who gets loot

[lone anvil]

Do you agree that by the time most people would realize they have a wrong item it would be too late

Or do you think most people catch it before they equip it

[hidden moth]

Yeah bc a 639 piece for me may be a 3 ilvl upgrade from my 636 but a 30 ilvl upgrade for my homie at 609

[lone anvil]

If I even get a 3 iLvl upgrade I equip it right away

[hidden moth]

Most catch it bc they double check when the “hey dumbass u sure?” Button pops up

[hidden moth]

Not how loot council high level guilds work

More of a dps increase to give to the guy who gets 30 ilvl than the one who gets 3 ilvl

[lone anvil]

I thought most people famously didn't read any fine print on anything and that's why theirs software in our phones that tracks everything we do

[lone anvil]

Not sure how this is even relevant

[lone anvil]

I think you're in the minority

[hidden moth]

I just explained loot council and why equipping makes it non tradable

Which is why the 3 ilvl vs 30 ilvl is relevant

[lone anvil]

Okay im confused by that entire analogy. So I promise you nothing I'm saying is in regards to loot council

But on a separate note

[hidden moth]

Reason u can’t equip then refund is bc u shouldn’t buy a feral wep play for 1.5 hours vendor it for refund but healer wep then go heal for 1.5 hours then refund and swap back or keep vendoring while using so u can swap anytime u want

Makes for a weird gameplay loop and can affect weird meta shit

[lone anvil]

Sure I get that

But they can check

I didn't do any bgs as feral

They have access to all of that shit I'm sure

[hidden moth]

Yeah, I said u can put the ticket In

[lone anvil]

Yeah

[hidden moth]

Just be ready for a bot to respond with “yeah u hit yes so ur fault gl go next”

[lone anvil]

Everyone said the ticket is pretty much useless tho so idk

Yeah I gotcha

Maybe just time to go feral I guess

[hidden moth]

If I’m working customer support I’m not putting that much time into one ticket when I have 100+ on my desk a day

Or make a 2nd Druid

Dmf and time walking is here so shouldn’t take more than 5 hours to hit 80

[lone anvil]

Nah I'm not that motivated lol. Gearing the characters I have is enough rn

Yeah I get you but still

I already play this game too much working full time and being a student

[hidden moth]

Beauty is that u can xfer the honor and when u hit 80 full pvp gear

[lone anvil]

I know

[hidden moth]

I get ya

[lone anvil]

I had full greens on my druid when I hit 80

[hidden moth]

Or spend conq on a wep or

Just use bloody token 636 wep

[lone anvil]

Conquest and bloody grind sucks unless you have people on to grind arenas with

[hidden moth]

For resto

[lone anvil]

I got like 1200 conquest in an hour doing 3s

[hidden moth]

Bloody grind is easy 1k a week plus 100 per world quest u do

[lone anvil]

But usually when I don't have a team that shit takes forever

[hidden moth]

Can catch up to bt cap in a few hours

[hidden moth]

2k if u do shuffles as healer

U get a token for each shuffle u heal that is war bound and gives 50 conq

[lone anvil]

I hit 80 on my druid 5 days ago and Im at 2500/3500 bloody tokens and like 2900/4000 conquest

[hidden moth]

+25% honor and conq bonus for healing shuffle

Days since hitting max ≠ time played at max

[lone anvil]

But I also play my rogue and warlock

[lone anvil]

You really think it's worth making another character

Like that's what you would do

[hidden moth]

Also shuffle ques are like 2 min wait times if that

Depends

[lone anvil]

Yeeeee

[hidden moth]

Tbh I would just use the 636 blood token wep since we are basically done with bt gear

[lone anvil]

Im worse at shuffle than 3s currently. But hopefully I improve

I like running with people I know and coordinating

[lone anvil]

Gotcha

[hidden moth]

Shuffle u just gotta know ur teammates won’t press defensives and compensate until ur about 2100 and even then it’s a toss up

Shuffle has effectively increased my ignore list by 5x

Bc of yelling at dps who don’t use cds

Ret pallys die without pressing loh bop spell bop or bubble

[lone anvil]

Dude I have a story for you

[hidden moth]

Mages dying without block

[lone anvil]

I was healing a shuffle. Some feral druid kept LoSing my heals

So I just told him in our next round so he could be aware

Politely told him

I've LoSd my healer before and he's called me out

No biggie

This dude gets defensive cusses me out calls me garbage

At the end of the shuffle the feral is 1-5 with the worst record

I whisper him and go "interesting..."

[hidden moth]

Yeahhhh

They do that

I just hate when a dps goes 6-0 or 0-6 in shuffle when im healing

[lone anvil]

I know its low MMR, but heres form my first night healing arenas. Low mmr, not much, but its honest work

[hidden moth]

Nice

[lone anvil]

why is that? id rather a DPS go 6-0 than go 2-4 vs another healer xD

[hidden moth]

U want to go 3-3 as a heal

I don’t

Rather go 4-2

[lone anvil]

3-3 or 4-2 or 5-1

yeah

[hidden moth]

6-0

[lone anvil]

sure

so who cares if a dps gores 6-0 i just dont wanna be outplayed by another healer is my point lol

[hidden moth]

But if a dps goes 0-6 or 6-0 both heals go 3-3 and usually either stay same rating or more often than not lose cr

[lone anvil]

as a dps I always pray the healers go 3-3

0-6 healer matches suck as a dps

[hidden moth]

Rather be outplayed by another healer and learn where I need to improve than waste time in a lobby I can’t win bc lil Timmy thought he was hot shit went 6-0 in 0 cr and blizz sets his mmr to 2k

[lone anvil]

on my rogue. I always want 3-3 healer games lol

[hidden moth]

Yeah

It’s just easier to go 6-0 as a dps than a healer

[lone anvil]

yeah

unless

[hidden moth]

When the goal is first kill you have more control of that as the person killing someone than the one keeping them up

[lone anvil]

at low MMR sometimes you just get a new and bad healer

[hidden moth]

Doesn’t matter how much healing you pump into ur dps if they do 0 dam

[lone anvil]

exactly

[hidden moth]

That’s fine just carry

[lone anvil]

its hard to carry for the round when you get the two worst dps on your team

[hidden moth]

U should easily go 6-0 until u hit 1600+

As a dps

[lone anvil]

Im saying thats the only time you really see a healer 6-0

is low MMR

[hidden moth]

Pshhh

[lone anvil]

sometimes a healer enters who just has no idea what hes doing

[hidden moth]

My disc goes 6-0 often at 2k+ mmr

Just out play em

Shadow word death goes so hard

Dps get so pissed bc of it

[lone anvil]

this isnt factually true. theres 4 dps in every match, most games not a single dps goes 6-0 but sayign all 4 should easily do it just isnt possible

you have to play better than other people to go 6-0 and to do that you need people alot worse than you

[hidden moth]

Saying if ur in that lobby bc ur on a new toon u should be able to 6-0 the hard stuck Andy’s

[lone anvil]

so maybe a 2000+ player will go 6-0 up to 1600

[hidden moth]

If ur a 2k player

[lone anvil]

sure

i think its evident im new/returning and probably not there yet lol

so Idk if you were tlaking about me or someone else

but I rarely see 6-0 dps in my lobbies

usually 4-2 is the hgihest i see

[hidden moth]

2k player should 6-0 until 1800 mmr but usually they will be 500 cr and in 2k mmr matches already

[lone anvil]

sometimes a 5-1

[hidden moth]

Just get ur reps in

U got it

Focus on one class tbh

Till ur 1800 on it then move on

[lone anvil]

well

[hidden moth]

Trying to learn too much is gonna be a bad thing

[lone anvil]

that is good advice

im not saying youre wrong

but my catch 22 is this

[hidden moth]

U got 3 specs u want 1800 set on

[lone anvil]

the guy i play with most plays hunter. and we do ok assassination/mm in 2's but we know we going to hit a wall

[hidden moth]

Simple get 1 then the next then the next

[lone anvil]

and i have my 1600 item and he doesnt

so i wanna heal for him in 2s to hit his 1600

cause he hates blitz

[hidden moth]

He can just do shuffle

For it as well

But I see what ur saying

[lone anvil]

I have healer in my back pocket, just cause my friend group everyone has a healer to take turns healing for world pvp, bgs, arena w/e so no one gets burnt out

but most my time is spent on my rogue tbh

my druid just gets my leftovers

or when im bored or burnt out or like stressed on rogue

but Ill stop playing my lock

and smplify

@hidden moth ty for advice

[hidden moth]

Yeah np just hit ur goal then look at lock or pushing druid etc

[warped gate]

Holy shit I hate Fists of Fury.

Monks are cucking my Killing Spree when I’m targeting someone else just because they’re Fisting nearby.

Preeeeetty sure the move isn’t supposed to work like that, but it is.

[terse bolt]

We in Q boys?

i hate monks because they are useless and always in my team during blitz

[hidden moth]

Huhhhhh

Mw Monks are THE. Best fc hands down

[hidden moth]

Don’t forget to feint fists of fury

[terse bolt]

was referring to WW

the other specs are not monks

[hidden moth]

Fist weaver is the best monk spec

Sucks that it’s bad rn

Ww crank damage though

[long shore]

Which priority should be gear as sub rogue?

I did crafted weapons, 2 piece tier set, jewelry, bloody tokens off pieces, badge trinket -- should I get helm next or another ring?

[hidden moth]

Rip the crafted weps

Prob helm upgrade for agi

[brazen burrow]

Is Cheat death buggy?

[hidden moth]

No not really

Fatal blows set u at 7% max hp. U prob had 20% ms from warrior so u would have been set to 5.6% max hp but that’s not including dampening

Time dilation would’ve killed u cheat death proced ignoring its damage and healing for 70k to put u 7% hp or close to

The dr could’ve been late to apply to the penance that killed u but idk if that would reduce the damage of the already channeling penance

U can easily die through cheat

[stoic spruce]

You mean good

Easily the most cringe healer ever

And I've played since vanilla

I've never felt rewarded after winning against a fw

I either hate the game win I lose or feel nothing when I win.

[runic trench]

Nah

The worst is druid

I hate fighting them so much

Being able to sit in bear and just take no damage is unfair

[lone anvil]

Yesssss. More monk hate

[hidden moth]

Fist weaver is bad not most weaver

[lone anvil]

Beautiful

[hidden moth]

Fist weaver is melee mistweaver

Where mistweaver is caster

Fist weaver heals off of rising sun kicks and jade fire stomp etc

[hidden moth]

Balance still eats shit in bear form hehe

[warped gate]

I cannot fucking stand Mistweavers in Shuffle, I swear on a stack of bibles that they have Life Cuckoon every single time I’m about to get someone dead.

[hidden moth]

2 min cd

Though if in dampening you can just eat through it bc it’s absorb is reduced

[dull bridge]

cocoon is 75 seconds

[dull bridge]

cheat is very buggy yeah

[south cloak]

What happened to arena? Why matches can last up to 12 minutes? and they often boil down to who gets enemy healer to oom first? What forced the game to become like this since wotlk?

[terse bolt]

dont ask dude

[south cloak]

Like the fuck it's pve simulator until dampening gets high enough or healer is oom

[terse bolt]

and everything cleaves making cc almost useless

[south cloak]

Yeah, I remember gouge and blind actually being super useful and now everyone has aoe everywhere

Did blizz completely fucked over pvp by trying to make pve more engaging?

[gusty hedge]

yesh it bugged. if u have flurry up and ks and someone has say parry or dodge up it stops ks even tho they arent the main target

fistweaver / disc(shadowhealer idk) are broke in wpvp( atleast when i fight a good one) they dnt die and tick damage over time causing me to run and barely escape to reset 😭
came across both that for some reason wanted me dead

[warped gate]

Ahhh, good advice, didn’t think of that.

[abstract breach]

Guys it’s been my 1st season playing pvp. I’m just about to hit 1.8k cr in BGB. For someone that plays League, what would be the equivalent? I wanna know how shit I am

[lone anvil]

Okay so I have what is probably considered another really dumb question for y'all.

But when I'm playing assassination. And let's say our kill target is going to be a mage or a hunter but they're stealthed out at the start.

So maybe I sap healer and open with cheap shot on the warrior or whoever is visible and vulnerable.

My deathstalkers mark is going to now be on the warrior and not the kill target (hunter/mage)

So when I swap to the hunter or mage after they leave stealth do I want to vanish and reapply deathstalker on the kill target?

I just want to make sure I'm optimizing my windows in PvP and I usually don't track deathstalker and take advantage of it like I ought to

[maiden siren]

As assass, as long as you don't press ambush, you're not going to have a mark on the guy

[lone anvil]

So if I'm soft opening on someone waiting for a switch maybe just don't use my ambush

Meow meow meow?

[maiden siren]

I don't know about other people, but I don't pay attention that much about deathstalker mark, as long as it's not breaking my CCs (sheeps/blinds). And as assass you're multi-dotting anyway, so keep it on one of the kill target and you're good

[lone anvil]

Yeah. I usually lose track of my deathstalker mark trying to DoT everyone

Im just asking about strat to try and make sure I stay on target more or it's a wasted talent lol

[maiden siren]

I think the priority will always be to apply bleeds on off target than for example spending 5cp for envenom on main target (outside of a kill window obviously). So yeah if you plan to hard swap insta in the open you can hold ambush for a few extra-ish damage, but you're really not gaining insane value because you'd end up consuming the mark on off target anyway.

[potent pivot]

wdym the equivalent?

[potent pivot]

it's a sad day

[lone anvil]

Are you going feral lol

[potent pivot]

i'm just trying to set it up

to alt

[lone anvil]

I accidently bought the feral conquest staff on my druid instead of resto conquest staff. I opened a ticket but if they don't fix it I may be going feral too 🥲

[lone anvil]

Meow 🐈 🐾 💚

[potent pivot]

i've never spec'd into it outside of farming shit

so i've got zero idea what i'm doing spell layout wise

[lone anvil]

I have a friend who plays feral whos been 3300 before, I can try and get a layout from her.

[potent pivot]

i think the biggest thing i'm going to have to find binds for are forms

[lone anvil]

I use 1-4

On my druid

[potent pivot]

and figuring out what abilities i need to use in which form etc

[lone anvil]

1 bear 2 cat 3 travel and 4 is tree of life cause I play resto

[lone anvil]

That is the hardest part for me too. I rarely kitty weave and bear weave. But you gotta be comfortable in all forms

[potent pivot]

i'm assuming Mangle is never used when playing feral

[faint forge]

Hi! Ive been trying to find information about this elsewhere but just wanna be sure. What are the best Embelishments to use for Sub rogue in PVP and in wich slots should i craft them? 😇

[potent pivot]

duskthread x2 or focusing lens x2

slots don't matter, but duskthread can only be added to leather slots iirc

[faint forge]

I see, thx for answering! 😇

[hidden moth]

depends on the talents u take but yeah

[hidden moth]

gotta do ur cross cc and damage rotation properly to apply pressure

[hidden moth]

u arnt supposed to 1v1 a healer

heals are expected to keep themselves and 3-4 dps in blitz alive solo healing against multipul enemy dps. their heals gotta be strong

[safe pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/pointing-traitor-michael-scott-the-office-steve-carell-gif-17953273

[hidden moth]

ur death mark doesnt get applied with cheap its ambush just dont ambush or u can use sap macro and find mage/ wait for him

let the person with limited duration stealth come out first

[lone anvil]

Why do I need a macro for sap (sorry I'm dumb)

[hidden moth]

cringe

[hidden moth]

bc instead of waiting to see the stealthed enemy and clicking them and sapping them it legit is targeting droping target and retargeting the closest enemy and using sap

[lone anvil]

So it will sap someone even if they are stealthed ? That seems like a cheat code lol

[hidden moth]

what is leagues ranking system

[hidden moth]

yes but u have to detect them which means being 5 yrds away and facing them usually

[potent pivot]

gotta do what you gotta do

[hidden moth]

u got this bro

[lone anvil]

I've played with a feral who was almost a rank 1 and watched her screen share and she's always super super super aggressive with her openings. She says a good offense is a good defense. And she always soft opens on someone and then swaps to kill target. Waiting for the kill target to leave stealth seems too passive

[potent pivot]

if feral will better fit my team i'm kinda trolling not giving it a shot

[hidden moth]

i do 2 bear 3 cat 4 travel. bc 2 3 4 is more comfy than 123 for me

[lone anvil]

Valid

[hidden moth]

rogues arnt druids

similar play style but big diff

[lone anvil]

I thought Assassination rogue literally is a druid without the other forms

[indigo hill]

Wish feral still has the saberon form. 😔

[hidden moth]

@indigo hill isnt that just in the barber

[lone anvil]

I thought the role of feral and rogue is similar for being the pillar of the team and doing the set up and the pacing ECT

[hidden moth]

ehhh no, more buttons diff util

[indigo hill]

I wish. Unless they added it this expansion.

[potent pivot]

screen shot had filtered words in it..

[hidden moth]

my b

[indigo hill]

I wasnt done reading that. 🤣

[potent pivot]

consider this a warning mmk

[hidden moth]

https://tenor.com/view/mmmkay-mr-mackey-south-park-s2e12-clubhouses-gif-21551258

yesir

[potent pivot]

the only similarity is dots/bite

it's quite different in the grand scheme of things

[lone anvil]

And stealth. And energy bar. And stuns and I assumed that feral and rogue played similar roles inside a 3s comp

Of being the main CC/set up person. Rogues and ferals seem like the central points of almost every 3s comp. Like the pillar

[hidden moth]

rogue has alot more stuns

[lone anvil]

Feral was vanish too now doesn't it?

[hidden moth]

no lol

unless u count smeld restealth but rogues get that feral doesnt get vanish no shadow dance mech no subterfuge

just a single stun if u rake from stealth and bash

cyclone

[lone anvil]

I thought incarn gave ferals a restealth 🤔🧐

@hidden moth

[potent pivot]

yeah but you use incarn for dmg

casting still breaks the prowl iirc

[potent pivot]

there just isn't anywhere near as much CC as a whole, without subterfuge, sap, cheapshot

[hidden moth]

yeah u use if for dam, it just lets u get a rake stun or a extra damage shread and u can only stealth once

[lone anvil]

4th rogue spec

[hidden moth]

so sending ur big dps go thats a 3 min cd for a restealth for 1 stealth abiity or one vanish on a 2 min for a restealth or a stealth ability+ 6 seconds of buffs and abilities

[lone anvil]

Stealth. Vanish. Stun and clone. Dots/bleeds. Energy bar. Wears leather. Performs same role on a team

[hidden moth]

can cast off heals, cyclone is spamable while rogues only spam cc is cheap (conditional) and sap (conditonal)

[lone anvil]

Feral is a rogue, but just like "meow meow"

[potent pivot]

isn't incarn 2min

[hidden moth]

they also can go bear and do other stuff, the similarities begin and end with energy cp's bleeds stealth

[hidden moth]

3 min in tool tip

[lone anvil]

That's alot of similarities. Are there two other specs in wow more similar to one another

Maybe old-school destro Lock and fire mage

But now they're pretty different

[potent pivot]

2

[lone anvil]

Or maybe shadow priest and affliction warlock

What two specs are most similar to each other? Shadow priest and warlocks or rogue and feral? Im not sure

[hidden moth]

im on wow head

sorry

[hidden moth]

prot war and guardian

[potent pivot]

ye i'm only saying this because afaik they run the -60sec talent rn

[hidden moth]

they are

[lone anvil]

Ok give me a DPS comparison because as far as we are concerned tanks are mostly irrelevant in pvp

Which two DPS specs are more similar than rogue / feral

Maybe Spriest warlock