pvp

[orchid plinth]

Is this another "ER at release big dam" moment?

At least I don't have to reroll Fae and then reroll Venthyr this time.

[spring bough]

Pls no. He gets us nerfed cause he goes OD and shouts it from the rooftops

Then posts like 80 videos “ONE SHOT MACRO”

[vocal surge]

Yeup

He's a ticking clock rn lol

Before he sets off the pvp community

[halcyon timber]

2 instant shadowbolts (noncrit) do that with affliction. Or 1 disintegrate from sobe lizards

[spring bough]

And that’s why I solely interrupt disintegrate from those damn evokers lol

[halcyon timber]

XD yeah

Nothing to panic about boys

Eternity surge 2m

Or rapid fire 1.6m

Literally just propaganda concerning nerfing us

[foggy void]

rapid fire is nuts actually

[halcyon timber]

Its balanced

Thats how they nerf mages is by buffing mm

Cracked the code boys

Just wait till affliction gets authority of depths enchant from raid next week.

Def die during haunt + fear

[rain crown]

idk if it was posted already but it doesnt look like cold blood makes every killing spree strike crit

[vocal surge]

Can't wait to fight the world's most tankiest MM hunter as he does his full rotation standing still

[rain crown]

mine was like half crits

wait no

that time it was

[halcyon timber]

When the main man was here , he explained it is registered as many interactions and that is why it didn’t fully crit for CB

[rain crown]

yea but someone said its changed now

ill test a few more times

[halcyon timber]

Ruthless + BTE prob makes it mostly crit anyway no?

[rain crown]

probably yea

but i just did one with cold blood and all 14 crit

[halcyon timber]

Add in 10%crit as it is a finisher and counts off of No scruples

[rain crown]

this is werid

[halcyon timber]

Yeah hopefully it stays that way then

[rain crown]

that time it didnt lol

[halcyon timber]

Its the intern at blizz hq touching your crits

“That will teach em” - shadow priest intern

[rain crown]

and that time it did

oddly though, the details damage is almost exactly the tooltip damage, but every hit crit

[halcyon timber]

For science, does haste affect it or solely just speed it up?

[rain crown]

im not sure theres def something odd about it

[halcyon timber]

Eg same dmg but just finishes it sooner

[rain crown]

it doesnt consistently do 100 percent crits

im not sure whats throwing it off

this is going to sound odd but i think ruthless precision is negating cold blood with killing spree

need a smarter rogue to test though

no its not that

idk like 7-10 casts with cold blood up are 100 pecent crits

7/10

[halcyon timber]

Do a big ol table , record the outcomes, eliminate all extraneous things with a cancel aura

[rain crown]

yea im not that guy

im sure someone in here is though

[halcyon timber]

Repeat across 3 different rogues and then we can make an actual research conclusion

If we were to be true about it

[rain crown]

someone in here is a theorizer and will test more im sure

not me

[halcyon timber]

Would need a sample size truly of 100 with and without for a good n

I dig heh

[rain crown]

i dont think it would even be good regardless

[halcyon timber]

I like doing that stuff as ive written and published research for the IRB

But not gonna do it as I have exams atm

The Outlaws will do it if they are feeling gung ho about it though

Bloodstones are expensiveeee on the ah oooo weee . Makes sense w all the premades going on to fill their coffers.

[candid tide]

after opening with SS -> CS we have 7 CP, do you guys then throw in a evi before dancing?

SS -> CS -> Blades+Trink -> Symbols+Tea -> Sepsis -> Tech -> SS -> Evis

is this the right opener?

think tea and symbols are both off the GBC right?

think blades+trink should be right off in stealth alr

no that dont work

[vocal surge]

Aye

Finally home

filled up a gallon of water

its already halfway done before it touches my desk

[warm tundra]

man idk if there is some cooldowns that im not aware of

but why is warrior's spin ticking like 20% of my hp per second

[wanton breach]

tuning LUL

[rotund mountain]

how often do you guys press slice n dice in pvp

[spring bough]

Where lmao

Nvm you talking bout that warrior stuff 😂

[halcyon timber]

It's an important tool, maintain it and because of cut to the chase, it's very easy to maintain. Main finishers respective to the specialization add time to it.

[indigo hill]

When it's off but we got talents to keep it going. Dispatch for example increases the duration with the talent.

[rotund mountain]

where are you guys pressing this tho, it feels like it clutters a gcd in the opening bs of an arena

[indigo hill]

Though at this piont they might as well just bake it into dispatched.

[worthy crag]

i press it after opener

[halcyon timber]

You just use it when you're not bursting or have a moment to do so

not hard to maintain

[rotund mountain]

doesnt seem hard to maintain, just uncomfortable to have to press

[halcyon timber]

Very easy to have if you choose to talent into control is king

[rotund mountain]

ill try fitting it in more after open and between big moments

[indigo hill]

You can already use it with 1 or 2 cp since you have abilities that incrise the duration.

[halcyon timber]

It's an investment tool

[rotund mountain]

that is fair and im sure i completely undervalue the investment

[halcyon timber]

Always has been an important rogue tool and that's why it work the way it does

[indigo hill]

Not a single rogue likes the ability but it's helpful so we press it when it's convenient.

[rain crown]

is it ever worth to drop ghostly strike for something? blade rush or greenskin?

[indigo hill]

Don't think so. Not at the moment atleast. Also a shit button to have.

Wish it was more like monks keefers.

[rain crown]

i was wanting to take br with all the fros mages

out ehere

[halcyon timber]

Dunno why someone wouldn't take blade rush anyway

[indigo hill]

I feel you. Frosties need a rework. Too much bullshit from them.

[rain crown]

@halcyon timber maybe I’m wrong but it isn’t it not taken in the pinned build?

I can’t remember where I got my outlaw build from

[halcyon timber]

I wouldn't know man

[rain crown]

Ok np

[lime oar]

my alt outlaw

ready to be plundering

double grappling

[proven kayak]

the mental power i spent to do all the chores to get the best pvp hunter pet got me exhausted

[spring bough]

What’s the best pvp pet. Thought it was always Reban

[jolly sierra]

undead raptors 100%

[candid tide]

dang i got the sub opener down a lil

its so finger twisting if pressing all the abilties seprately

[surreal barn]

That’s what she said

[spring bough]

I GOT IT ON CAMERA

haymakering FC off map

LOL

this is epic lol

here i come rated blitz FCs lmao

[vocal surge]

XD

[proven kayak]

undead raptor from kings rest dungeon frm last boss

[proven kayak]

hahahahahah

[mossy gazelle]

hey guys - for sub pvp is it better to use the on use trinket or the other one?

[proven kayak]

If the character is new first you have to take engineering from SL use warmwhole to maldraxxus kill elites to get the tame undead then you have to fly as alliance to troll vilage to take the boat to go to zuldazar go into instance go to last boss and tame the undead raptor

all those infos is to avoid the prequest both from bfa and sl

[potent pivot]

yes, you want Badge for sub

[rain crown]

@proven kayak I’m pretty sure any ud raptor works and there are easier ones to get

[proven kayak]

I already done the chore idk if this is legit but to even tame the undead pets u need to do the first part with maldraxxus elite farming i was lucky got it in like 10-11th elite in a dungeon

[topaz bobcat]

Just got rekt by a rogue on my alt

[proven kayak]

I also need a normal raptor for the min/max to swap raptors depending on opps

[rain crown]

@proven kayak yea you gotta get ud pet manual no matter what

[jolly sierra]

you can try a mount raptor as pet

[proven kayak]

i got the undead pet anyway

[worthy crag]

you dont play undead pet vs ret comps

so you need another type like hyena or rodent

[proven kayak]

ok thx for info

[spring bough]

cant wait to try this brd raid for the anniversary

this gate of aq event looks cool as hell too

they are brining back OG deadmines too wow

for timewalk

[potent pivot]

I’m kinda hoping the Sha boss will drop the remix illusion

I was too busy to get it

[spring bough]

barons charger coming back

that is what i want lol

he didnt admit it but it def is lol

the smile on asmongolds face when they said "mount mania event to show off your collection"

ooooo the pvp brawl gonna give us a mount

[potent pivot]

world pvp also gives a title and mount

[jolly sierra]

does sparks quest matter for something now?

[potent pivot]

i kinda wish it was based on some sort of world pvp rating though

can you imagine if everyone had a world pvp rating

[potent pivot]

atm just for the title/mount

[jolly sierra]

hmmm

[potent pivot]

it doesn't give anything special as far as rewards, maybe when season starts it gives bloody tokens or something

[jolly sierra]

well, ill have enough time for that later

[potent pivot]

it takes like 20 weeks

so

might want to start

[spring bough]

that be sick id be top after that like 50 streak i went on last night LOL

can still see that mage complaining lol

[spring bough]

i thought it was 5? RIP

[potent pivot]

apparently it updates to 20 after you get the 5 done

[spring bough]

thats a big downer lol

10 is like a good number 20 is ridiculous lol

[surreal barn]

What’s it look like

If it’s ugly that’s actually great - because then I don’t have to get it 😆

[dull bridge]

whats this title

[potent pivot]

Slayer of the Deeps

[halcyon timber]

Partially explains the surge of groups ganking people

[potent pivot]

gotta earn 1k honor in each zone, do 20 Sparks weeklies, and do like 3-5 of every wpvp WQ

[halcyon timber]

Probably have people selling themselves to be killed for 10k gold 20x

[surreal barn]

Hmm. I guess it’s better than the glad mount

[jolly sierra]

@potent pivot u just need to do the spark quest 5 times

xd

not 20 wtf

[spring bough]

i wanna believe the 20 after that it goes to is for something else lol

[potent pivot]

it's 20 times

[potent pivot]

yes

do those 5

and it turns into 5/20

it's a multiple step achievement

[jolly sierra]

doesnt it count if is marked directly?

[potent pivot]

multiple people have showed me there's

[jolly sierra]

how if there hasnt passed 5 weeks

[calm roost]

what addon do you guys use to track DRs ?

[potent pivot]

their achievement just says 20

it's also account wide

[potent pivot]

Gladius

or sArena

[jolly sierra]

couldnt be bugged if in the criteria it says 5? in the text?

[potent pivot]

idk, i thought it was supposed to be 5 at first too

but multiple ppl have showed me otherwise

[jolly sierra]

:l

what if someone reaches the 5 and see if it dings or not?

we will know in like 2 more weeks

[potent pivot]

i will know this week

[jolly sierra]

fast af

[jolly sierra]

XD

[lucid citrus]

tbh idk hwo i completed this lol

but it does say 20 times

[potent pivot]

tf?

you did the quest on 10 alts or did it just bug?

[chrome schooner]

the man has 10 lvl 80s with spark quest done both weeks

[lucid citrus]

it mightve bugged

[chrome schooner]

COMMITMENT

[lucid citrus]

lol

[potent pivot]

lmao

[lucid citrus]

am just missing one more achievement for the title and mount

[potent pivot]

wtf

@jolly sierra

[chrome schooner]

I'm close to that as well

It's not a difficult one tbh

[jolly sierra]

so, what is the veredict now?

[potent pivot]

it's 20

[jolly sierra]

fuck

well is not a priority

u can speedrun anytime

[potent pivot]

nah it isn't difficult, it's just time gated depending on how many characters you're playing

[chrome schooner]

Difficult was the wrong word

[potent pivot]

sure if you have a lot of characters :d

[chrome schooner]

I mean I only played 1 char in open world

And I'm almost done

Without trying

[jolly sierra]

wait until timewalking opens

[potent pivot]

how's that possible though?

with 20 sparks quests

[outer sky]

Ok folks what do we think about the changes?

[potent pivot]

oh fuck there's changes

[jolly sierra]

which changes

lol

[potent pivot]

holy

invigorating shadowdust removed

sepsis removed

[wintry dew]

ROGUE CHANGES

Cut to the Chase now grants Slice and Dice duration, instead of requiring an existing Slice and Dice to extend. i like this

[potent pivot]

nah that didn't look easy to read

[outer sky]

I can't tell if we got buffed or nerfed

Big question I have. Is thistle tea no longer am active ability?

Or can you still press it whenever you want, just now it has an auto trigger?

More charges of symbols though

I'm not sure what the shadow step change means

[jolly sierra]

it would trigger like monk chi tho

they had something auto i recall

[outer sky]

And in not sure if tea is still active or not

[jolly sierra]

i think it still is

but OOF

auto SND just saves a lot of situations

i forgot a lot it tbh

[desert patrol]

these changes are insane

[potent pivot]

gonna have to play to stay above 50 energy lmao

[desert patrol]

thistle tea auto proccing at 50 energy is horrid lowkey

[potent pivot]

i mean assa does anyway

because of SB

[outer sky]

@topaz bobcat they buffed soothing darkness hahahaha

[stiff badger]

seems like a nerf

doesn’t proc with dance

[potent pivot]

you aren't pressing dance when you're scared

you're pressing vanish

[outer sky]

I think double healing is way better since sub only vanishes defensively

Yep

[potent pivot]

that's a good change imo

more healing when you actually need it

[stiff badger]

way less healing overall

[potent pivot]

and that goes for all 3 specs because we all play subterfuge

[potent pivot]

basically no outlaw step

[lucid citrus]

wait i dont understand the shadowstep removed?

[stiff badger]

free

[potent pivot]

outlaw gets double hook

[outer sky]

Agreed

[potent pivot]

assa and sub get baseline 1 step and 1 charge from a talent

[outer sky]

Are these changes live?

[potent pivot]

no

this is PTR

these changes don't hit until 11.0.5

[chrome schooner]

Oh no I was talking about the other one, the spark quests I'm at like 4 or 5 I suppose ?

Didn't pay attention

[potent pivot]

yeah the title and mount are locked behind 20 sparks quests and the other achievements

the other achievements are really easy if you just do every wpvp WQ

the 20 sparks part is just a little time gated, but still easy

bro

[glacial aurora]

I just saw that

[potent pivot]

symbols has 2 charges?

hooooly

yeah we like these changes

all day

[glacial aurora]

Shadowdust removed though :((

[outer sky]

Oh so they're not even going to be in effect when season starts?

[potent pivot]

i don't think so. it's the 20th anniversary PTR.

[outer sky]

3 charges.

[potent pivot]

which is the .5 patch

[steep kiln]

some nice stuff here

[potent pivot]

you're right

that's

that's insane

i will gladly give up Dust for that

[outer sky]

Yeah agreed

Plus the extra healing

[potent pivot]

so many people in pve hate Dust

[outer sky]

SnD auto applying

[potent pivot]

so i kinda knew it was coming

[spring bough]

why is everyone bee farming with WM on do they mean achieve or something else lol

[potent pivot]

something else

[spring bough]

so many groups for it lol

[potent pivot]

that's a 4x4 farm

[jolly sierra]

im in just because the auto snd

XD

[potent pivot]

for leather and shit

bro these outlaw changes

@open thunder

@stoic spruce

[spring bough]

fuck yeah lmao

[potent pivot]

flurry getting acro distance back is amazing

[spring bough]

bigger aoe range and that BTE reset is sick

trick gonna rip the aoe lol

[potent pivot]

they're finally doing a little listening

[outer sky]

They reverted the acro nerf for outlaw and now you can BtE literally on CD

[spring bough]

makes me wanna figure out how to get precise cuts for keys

[potent pivot]

your main attacks still don't have acro, but yeah

the flurry range is still a massive improvement

[spring bough]

tuesday is going to be fucking wild

straight to 2k

one night

[potent pivot]

even in leveling dungeons outlaw felt so ass

[outer sky]

2.1

[jolly sierra]

there are any news for assa?

[spring bough]

yes

[potent pivot]

that's the only assa specific stuff so far

[outer sky]

You don't have to press SnD anymore and they gave a mild buff to envenom

[jolly sierra]

yeye but anything else lol

[potent pivot]

i think these changes are an overall W

[potent pivot]

nope

[outer sky]

yeah big rogue improvements

[potent pivot]

Soothing Darkness healing buff affects assa

[outer sky]

yep

[spring bough]

that tea auto trigger is cool

[jolly sierra]

xd

then its irrelevant the specific change

[potent pivot]

the CttC changes and envenom, that's it

[potent pivot]

for us maybe

[jolly sierra]

ofc

we are pvpers

[spring bough]

oh damn this for the new patch

we gonna have to wait huh

[chrome schooner]

"additional"

so 3 ?

[potent pivot]

yeah that's what it looks like

[chrome schooner]

sub's already lowkey broken

with that it's ... going to be interesting

[potent pivot]

well these changes aren't coming now

[chrome schooner]

I know

[potent pivot]

they are coming in 11.0.5

there's definitely going to be tuning between now and then :p

[lucid citrus]

yeah I just want to try the PTR already

[jolly sierra]

blizz give us back mfd ty very much

[stoic spruce]

L changes

[spring bough]

they redesigned dark ranger for all yall with hunter alts

[spring bough]

popo just want to smash dispatch lol

[stoic spruce]

I do

[jolly sierra]

ew

[inner tartan]

Is fate bound outlaw gonna have 4 grappling hooks !???

[stoic spruce]

I think it's only fair

Also yes

Assuming you're fatebound

[inner tartan]

Lmfaoooo

Open world PvP trolling will be fun

[stoic spruce]

That's a huge W

[spring bough]

going to be spamming BTE like its my job

[stoic spruce]

Dammit

[spring bough]

so we dont get shadowstep as outlaw tho

just more hooks kinda like it

[stoic spruce]

At least hook is on restless

[dense pumice]

are we playing fatebound assa now with changes?

[potent pivot]

we're going to have to test, but i highly doubt it

keep in mind these changes won't be in the game for months

it changes nothing about what we're doing atm

[spring bough]

no changes RIP

[vocal surge]

I have mixed feelings about the double hook

Its good but at the same time

there's so many bugs with grappling hook

[dull bridge]

surpass your mortal form and play whatever you want my son

[stoic spruce]

I like winning

So no

[potent pivot]

the LoS shit only affects open world and BGs usually

[surreal barn]

You’re looking at 2 grapplings total

[vocal surge]

I have had it break in arenas

[stoic spruce]

4

[surreal barn]

No more CDR

[stoic spruce]

For fatbound

[surreal barn]

Woah

[spring bough]

how do u get 4 for fate wouldnt it be 3

[vocal surge]

Specifically on maps with ramps ie Blade's Edge and Mugambala

[potent pivot]

you used it "wrong" then

[dull bridge]

also they just straight up removed fistweaver?

[stoic spruce]

No you get to use it a second time for free

[potent pivot]

gotta do it on flatground

[stoic spruce]

Each time would get a freebie

[spring bough]

oh yeah so i guess 4

[vocal surge]

Fatebound boutta get an internal CD on that lol

or nerf to the CD of Grappling Hook

[surreal barn]

2 more charges of symbols of death seems excessive

[stoic spruce]

Idk who's out here hooking on CD lol

[potent pivot]

it already adds 5 seconds

[potent pivot]

yeah but you cycle through more Dances than Symbols anyway

all that really gives you is 2 extra Symbols per match

[surreal barn]

I guess without dust it makes sense

[stoic spruce]

We love dust gone

[tawdry imp]

why the dust hate

[stoic spruce]

It's dumb and stupid and dumb

While being stupid

[tawdry imp]

no

[stoic spruce]

Dragon rogues have double jump

[tawdry imp]

so are we looking at three steps now? I can never tell with the way blizzard write changes

[vocal surge]

I do

when fighting Cvark on his mage, 1 on 1

[potent pivot]

no

2 steps for sub/assa

no steps for outlaw

[surreal barn]

Holy shit

This is an insane talent lol

[stoic spruce]

Holy balls

[jolly sierra]

thought eye by an eye was removed

[jolly sierra]

LOOOOOOOOOL

crazy

will be a noob bait in SS tho

that talent

[vocal surge]

lol

[potent pivot]

would that even work in SS?

[vocal surge]

nope

[potent pivot]

the rounds end on kill

[vocal surge]

^

[stoic spruce]

Oh god double ret in 2s

Yall just think you hate tanks

[jolly sierra]

no

wont work

[tawdry imp]

if blizzard really cared it'd cast redemption and divine shield on the ally

[jolly sierra]

cuz it ends w the kill

[stoic spruce]

2s

Not shuffle

[jolly sierra]

ye i was replying trickz

[stoic spruce]

And I'm replying to you and starting something because I'm embarassed

[jolly sierra]

xd

[surreal barn]

It will most definitely work in 3s and bgs though lol

I can’t wait to see that shit happen it’s gonna be so funny running away from a ret

[lucid citrus]

So im assuming they are going tro point the new talent for the symbols where Sahdowdust is at

[tawdry imp]

i'd rather have shadowdust

can an actually good player tell me why 2/3 symbols is better or worse

[potent pivot]

it's better game design wise

you also just have symbols with 3 straight dances

unless you do a dance inbetween for CC

losing vanish CDR will hurt a little bit with resetting kidney for another target

but 3 charges on symbols is likely going to feel amazing damage wise

[outer sky]

1m radiant power hit in arena btw

[tawdry imp]

fair enough, I trust your judgement

[potent pivot]

we aren't getting these changes for months, so it's still gonna have to be tested

i'm sure there's more changes to come between now and then

[quaint cedar]

I'm happy with these upcoming changes

2 grapples for outlaw is crazy

[potent pivot]

we're probably going to be getting tuning in the next week or so

keep your heads down and pray we don't get the bat too hard

[quaint cedar]

So happy about crackshot resetting BTE CD too. Should have been that way from the beginning

[wet crown]

Alrighty, I finally racked up the honor. So sub>outlaw for war mode? That was a surprising response. Why outlaw?

[quaint cedar]

Yeah I get nervous every time I see patch notes
Just waiting for blizzard to kill my fun again

[wet crown]

I assumed sin would make casters cry.

[potent pivot]

where are you getting that response

[wet crown]

I'd have to scroll up to this morning.

hold

[outer sky]

having symbols for every dance is a great change. Will probably get nerfed tbh

[potent pivot]

don't worry about it it's ok

[marsh wadi]

Semi relevant, but what's are thoughts around Thief's Bargain? Do we still wanna run that in general?

[potent pivot]

just play whatever spec you enjoy for war mode

[wet crown]

here

[potent pivot]

they're all good

[wet crown]

is outlaw blasting in pvp?

[potent pivot]

that guy's name is literally Delusional

[halcyon timber]

Because hes always a god damn subtlety hating guy just because. Just the way he is man. Its not cool but whatever.

[wet crown]

IIt's my favorite of the three so I'm down for it.

[wet crown]

listen

[potent pivot]

yes

outlaw is good

[wet crown]

just because the food is on fire doesn't mean it's burning

[potent pivot]

lmao

[quaint cedar]

Outlaw is great rn but for some reason people think it sucks
I'm doing tons of damage though
Feels fantastic so far

[wet crown]

Interesting.

[vocal surge]

If you want to win fights in Open World, Sub is the way to go

[halcyon timber]

Because they are cultists who just want to trash talk outlaw.

You guys show constantly that it is solid. Pay no mind to that shit

[vocal surge]

Outlaw can beat a lot of people but if the sub rogue is good enough or knows how to play, they will kill Outlaw easily

and I mean effortlessly

[wet crown]

How's the actual sub damage? I know how to play it, but when the healer sap breaks from rando hunter #202040 i wanna cry

[vocal surge]

1.4M Eviscerates

[wet crown]

sexy.

[potent pivot]

[wet crown]

fatebound or deathstalker? Saw pshero was playing fatebound, but deathstalker sounds like just my style

[vocal surge]

Hey

Im being absolutely real rn

[halcyon timber]

Don’t be swayed, play what you like man

[vocal surge]

If you want to have fun, play the class you want

[wet crown]

I like all three, it's just a matter of which weapons to grab first yaknow

[potent pivot]

it's fucking wpvp

[vocal surge]

But i'll advocate Trickster > Fatebound Outlaw

[wet crown]

because enchants are expensive

[vocal surge]

Yes

[potent pivot]

and all 3 specs are closer in performance than ever

[halcyon timber]

They dropped “a little “ but yeah

[quaint cedar]

Yeah this is the first time in a while that all 3 specs feel almost equally good. It's nice

[halcyon timber]

Def expensive

Gotta repaint some art with those changes and rethink the way it will look

[potent pivot]

there's zero reason to play anything other than what you enjoy right now

i can kill people just as well on any of the 3 specs in wpvp

[halcyon timber]

Yep

[potent pivot]

outlaw KS hits 1.5m+

sub evis hits 1.5m+ with all buffs

assa shreds with dots and shiv

can even hit 1.5m+ envenoms

[wet crown]

Operating on the assumption the pinned builds are arena based, anything you'd change for war mode?

Didn't really look at the tww trees due to the dooming

[potent pivot]

for outlaw/sub i wouldn't change anything on them no

[inner tartan]

If you play trickster in PvP do we run gsw for 700k pistol shots ?

[potent pivot]

for sin i'd consider taking Kingsbane if you're mostly going to be going for 1v1's

[vocal surge]

Swap to Trickster for Outlaw

[wet crown]

Interesting, thanks

[potent pivot]

[vocal surge]

1/2 Vigor 2/2 Lethality, swap Thief's Versatility for Swift Slasher

For Trickster Choice nodes, if you're unsure what to pick
Smoke, No Scruples, Thousand Cuts, and Don't be Suspicious

[wet crown]

and last question, anything different with deathstalker openers beyond making sure you ambush at least once during subt?

[potent pivot]

nope, that's it

[wet crown]

perf

ty

[quaint cedar]

I hope that with crackshot resetting BTE that GSW will make a comeback

[halcyon timber]

Hope it does too

[vocal surge]

^

[outer sky]

we havent talked about this

I'm not good at math

is this a nerf or a buff

@potent pivot

and is outlaw losing step entirely now?

coin flip dam buffed for outlaw

[halcyon timber]

20% reduced duration for stuns for ret now too eh

[outer sky]

stuns last 20% less time on rets or their stuns are 20% shorter?

[halcyon timber]

10s off forbearance

[outer sky]

WHAT

[outer sky]

well thats bullshit

[halcyon timber]

Eye for an eye is back and affects casters w a pvp talent

[potent pivot]

this looks like a tooltip change, and yes outlaw loses step

[outer sky]

so the damage is the same?

[potent pivot]

it looks like they're just adding 7 combo points to the tooltip, let me look

[halcyon timber]

Killshots dealing shadow damage is filthy as shit

Dark ranger is something to be very cautious of now it looks like

[outer sky]

wow

how much handholding do they need

[wet crown]

i was joking when I said paladins need more safety nets since they clearly don't have enough

[potent pivot]

oh no

that is a fat crimson tempest nerf

[wet crown]

bro

[jolly sierra]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[halcyon timber]

Im paying no mind my man

[wet crown]

paladin players are already window lickers

[jolly sierra]

ret S tier again lets gooooooooooooo

[wet crown]

why are we coddling them more

[halcyon timber]

10s off forbearance is rough and the new heal talent ignoring all penalties too

[potent pivot]

old vs new

this is

this is bad

[wet crown]

i'm convinced the pally guy is big on pvp

this is insane.

[halcyon timber]

When the devs said they wanted to reduce life based healing

Soothing darkness wont stick either. Im ignoring that, we’ve done that dance before

[outer sky]

elaborate. i didn't finish college

[potent pivot]

well hang on

they added (+31%) across the board too

let me do the math

[halcyon timber]

Whats next ? Warrior just using all executes while blade storming ?

[jolly sierra]

warriors able to trinket by pressing bladestorm instead by timing

[outer sky]

we have to remember that these are talents which means theyll have to give things up to get them. I doubt they get all of this without giving up anything really good

[halcyon timber]

trees are up

We need intel fast

Gotta counter this act of war quickly

[outer sky]

can you link the rogue ones please?

[halcyon timber]

Yes sir, 1 sec

[potent pivot]

dont think so

[outer sky]

20% stun duration reduction, 10s off forbearance, and able to cast divine shield even with forbearance seems way too OP to just give them for free especially when theyre not already doing badly

[potent pivot]

not all the changes look like they're in the trees

[halcyon timber]

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/talent-calc/rogue/assassination

Shit double post

Yes sir , not all there yet

[potent pivot]

step is still in the class tree

symbols charges replaced dust

[halcyon timber]

Yep , just glancing over other classes

Snd is passive w that cttc change

Disp / env / evis grant snd

[potent pivot]

@outer sky CT is just tooltip change

no change

[outer sky]

Guess I'll put this bottle of tequila back in the cabinet for tonight then

[marsh wadi]

Wait, so as it stands rn we're losing shadowdust?

[lucid citrus]

correct

[outer sky]

yep

[marsh wadi]

Rerolling fury. Been fun.

[potent pivot]

I think we still need that though

It’s celebration time

The only chance we didn’t get was assa ST

[halcyon timber]

Yes

[outer sky]

i wonder whats replacing shadowstep on the class tree

[halcyon timber]

Its a turd with a mask

That it, no talent

[outer sky]

Also it looks like sub is being forced to take inevitability which with 3 symbols charges will basically mean damn near perma uptime on symbols

[halcyon timber]

Sanguinary vein days i like

[potent pivot]

Probably Avoidance during Stealth

[topaz bobcat]

wazup guys

how are you doing?

[outer sky]

nm just celebrating the rogue buffs

[halcyon timber]

Please don’t come in w the tom foolery

[potent pivot]

We’re great 👍

[outer sky]

Really liking the 100% buff to soothing darkness

[halcyon timber]

Would be sick if the step replacement broke roots like the old days

When grappling/ step

[quaint cedar]

LOL
Blizz wants a repeat of 10.0.2 ret?

[potent pivot]

Which I’m hoping makes Builder builds more viable

[outer sky]

dont forget auto-freedom during steed....

[quaint cedar]

Why are they doing that? Paladin is literally the most played class in the game wtf

[potent pivot]

That’s why they’re doing it lol

[halcyon timber]

Yeah big fan of generators pulling their weight

[quaint cedar]

Why do they need to be even easier?

[potent pivot]

They’ve said in the past they take into account how many people play certain classes/specs iirc

Look at how easy hunter is

[halcyon timber]

Ret needs to be 65% of the ladder

[topaz bobcat]

I said it would get nerfed

[outer sky]

yeah it got buffed LMFAO

[topaz bobcat]

This is a mistake by an intern at blizzard

[quaint cedar]

Yeah but shouldn't they want to close the gap by making other classes more enjoyable instead of widening the gap even further?

[topaz bobcat]

it will be corrected do not get excited

[quaint cedar]

Blizz confuses me

[potent pivot]

If we want to get technical it got “nerfed” for Sub

[outer sky]

it really didnt

[potent pivot]

But that healing didn’t matter nearly as much

[halcyon timber]

Funstoppo will have a word don’t worry

[outer sky]

if anything it got buffed the most for sub because sub cares the least about its vanishes for DPS

[topaz bobcat]

I said it would get nerfed for sub what is the current change?

[halcyon timber]

Doesn’t matter bubs

[outer sky]

it does 100% more healing but only happens after vanish, not shadow dance

which is fine. We vanish when we're scared, not dance lol

[lime oar]

boys

how cooked are we

[outer sky]

I'm slamming tequila shots

[topaz bobcat]

This is exactly what I was told.

sub with double dance + cd reduction was healing too much

[marsh wadi]

Now we don't have either

[topaz bobcat]

subterfuge nerfed yet ?

[potent pivot]

Yeah but that healing wasn’t as important

[halcyon timber]

Fuck off man

Stirring the pot man

[potent pivot]

Dance still has CDR

[outer sky]

nope

[topaz bobcat]

they really buffed evoker again?

[outer sky]

this is a buff my guy. if you thought it was a nerf you dont know how to play rogue. We dont care much about healing during our go, which is when dance is used. we want it when we're scared, which is when we vanish.

[topaz bobcat]

inb4 it gets a pvp modifier soon

wait for the actual patch

[marsh wadi]

We think Thief's Bargain gonna become more generally valuable without the CDR from vanish?

[potent pivot]

Would you like to contribute anything of substance to the discussion other than trying to rile people up? It’s getting old

[outer sky]

idk man you predicting all these nerfs and we get buffed across the board like 8 hours later LOL

[topaz bobcat]

I'm never wrong, be patient

[halcyon timber]

Sanctuary is still there too ffs

[topaz bobcat]

These are way too many changes to too many classes things gonna shake up quite a bit

[quaint cedar]

Lmao
"I'm never wrong, except when I am"

[potent pivot]

Honestly the biggest buff we got

Is never having to press Slice and Dice lmfao

Something we’ve been asking for, for ages

[outer sky]

they buffed aug but pres and dev stayed the same

[potent pivot]

I feel like that change solidifies double dagger for Sub even more

[outer sky]

and its a small aug buff

[lime oar]

Guess we’re just gonna replace sepsis in blades with a ss?

[potent pivot]

Depends on multiple factors

Atm we want as fat of an evis as possible from Macabre stacks

So different abilities in dance are kinda important

[lime oar]

Can we take flag again 💀💀💀

[halcyon timber]

Your choice , always could

[potent pivot]

I highly doubt flag sees much high rated play

[lime oar]

Yeh

[outer sky]

that, the soothing darkness buff, the symbols charges, blade flurry range added back to outlaw, BtE CD reset, and the fatebound coin damage buff

[potent pivot]

But lower rating, or maybe blitz

[halcyon timber]

Do whatever you want

[potent pivot]

Never having to waste a GCD on Slice is kinda huge

[outer sky]

dont sleep on that fatebound coin damage though

[topaz bobcat]

shamans seem yuge buff enh not sure ele def

[potent pivot]

Having it up perma is decent passive dmg

Oh I’m not

It’s just my favorite of the changes

[outer sky]

I'm actually super glad sepsis is gone. it felt terrible pressing it during a stun lock

[potent pivot]

I liked it

[halcyon timber]

I digged it too

Creative use of it

[somber plank]

I had a dream we never had to press snd again

[halcyon timber]

Kinda didn’t have to now

[candid tide]

I hate having to press symbols and tea after dance

[halcyon timber]

1x per fight heh

[topaz bobcat]

simplified sub quite a bit huh

[potent pivot]

Yeah but that’s 1 GCD and some combo points saved now

[halcyon timber]

Yeah

[somber plank]

and that one keybind can go to soemthing else

the possibilities are infinite

[potent pivot]

Yeah the keybind being gone is also huge

[somber plank]

And thistle! Infinite x2

[halcyon timber]

Didn’t care for tea anyway

[potent pivot]

We still have to press Tea

[somber plank]

Oh I thought it was fully passive

[potent pivot]

Now we just have to watch our energy more as sub

[somber plank]

mb

[potent pivot]

It doesn’t say they’re making it fully Passive

It just says it triggers automatically under 50 energy

[halcyon timber]

Mw tossing people healing elixers is silly

[outer sky]

Also, I know this is cope but I'm beginning to see the kidney CD nerf as a buff. I play with Thick as Thieves A LOT and having both kidney and tricks on a 30s CD means my teammate gets 15% extra damage every single kidney shot instead of every other kidney shot. Also means it is now safe to macro tricks to kidney

[potent pivot]

I like the macro idea

Ngl

[halcyon timber]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/4/40/RandallWeems.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120515081155

Giving randall ammo

[potent pivot]

Lmao

[halcyon timber]

God damn randall

[outer sky]

it's a slept on talent. 15% more damage from your teammate every go is really good. Thats only 5% less than Avatar gives a warrior

[halcyon timber]

Just buff the ret with thieves

And afk

God will do the rest

[rotund pumice]

Why does sepsis have a new icon if it was removed?

[potent pivot]

Where do you see a new sepsis icon

Flag and ER got new icons

[potent pivot]

Well that is weird

Maybe they were already making the new icons before deciding to remove it

Or maybe it will get added back somewhere else later on

No way of knowing tbh

Wouldn’t mind having it back for assa

[halcyon timber]

Would of been cool just to learn it while leveling

[outer sky]

I want them to replace systemic failure with something useful

right now it's a wasted talent we're forced into

[wet crown]

So is fatebound 'better' or do people just get annoyed with deathmark and go fatebound

[halcyon timber]

Play what you like , its all tuned closely

[outer sky]

general consensus right now is that you play deathstalker as sub/assa and fatebound as outlaw

[potent pivot]

People are also just testing things out

[wet crown]

I likem all c:

[potent pivot]

Looking at drustvar or murlok right now is a bait

[halcyon timber]

Then do it all as you wish

[grave basin]

Shadowstep has been removed. Shadowstep is still automatically

Wtf

[potent pivot]

?

[grave basin]

Did outlaw just lose step ??

[potent pivot]

Yes

[grave basin]

Look at new notes

[potent pivot]

We have

[halcyon timber]

Gained another charge of hook no?

[potent pivot]

Yep

[halcyon timber]

On the datamined thing previously

[grave basin]

Awe man idk how good that is

[halcyon timber]

Triple hook to the moooon

[grave basin]

Step is instant

[outer sky]

lmfao

[quaint cedar]

Hook is near instant

[halcyon timber]

Or double hook + assault fb talent

[grave basin]

Bro the amount of changes rets get

Is insane

[wet crown]

you don't understand

someone killed a ret one time

[grave basin]

Like they're constantly getting reworked

[wet crown]

this had to be corrected

[grave basin]

Literally every single patch they get massive changesb

[quaint cedar]

Hook is far better imo. Longer range and does not require a target. Plus it's on CDR. I'd consider that a buff for outlaw

[potent pivot]

A big portion of the player base plays paladin

[halcyon timber]

Fuckin randall the ret

[grave basin]

Isn't that a self fulfilling loop

If blizzard gave rogues more attention more people would play it

[outer sky]

One thing I really like about step as opposed to hook is that it's targeted

[halcyon timber]

Reat hAsnT bEen gOod sIncE wRatH

[quaint cedar]

Yeah ret might be unkillable when this patch hits lol

[grave basin]

Ret was so good in wod with seal twisting

That was the last time I enjoyed it

[quaint cedar]

Yeah I did like having both. But I'll take the trade as well since double hook is really good

[potent pivot]

Yes but not enough to tip the scales at all

[halcyon timber]

Sins of the past brought them blessings in the present and everyone bowed their head and said RAMENN

[outer sky]

I hate having to aim it. Makes it take longer

[grave basin]

Loads of people rerolled Ret in 10.2

[halcyon timber]

Go forth my child , harm the shit out of those who would do unto you

[quaint cedar]

I use @cursor macros for it, makes it real fast

[grave basin]

More rerolled this expac for the plate sets

Tragic how we're below even monks now

[outer sky]

I do too but you still have to aim your cursor

[potent pivot]

When all 3 rogue specs were at the top of the dmg charts in SL they still weren’t over represented

[grave basin]

MONKS

[halcyon timber]

Because we arent apes

[outer sky]

WW needs a buff

[grave basin]

yea because damage is not the same as smoothness

Ret is really straight forward

[candid tide]

Tea is auto cast now?

[halcyon timber]

Neuron activated for plate monkey

[outer sky]

when you dip below 50 energy it uses a charge for you but you can still use it on demand

[grave basin]

Idk how good that is

What if I wanna hold the charge and run behind a pillar to regen energy

[candid tide]

But we always have to use it manually in dance

[potent pivot]

We’re 100% gonna have to watch our energy so that it doesn’t drop below 50 now

[outer sky]

yes

[grave basin]

Just more pve changes

[halcyon timber]

Popo will shit your pants when he reads crackshot change

[outer sky]

hes gunna shit MY pants?

[halcyon timber]

Yep

You read that correctly

[topaz bobcat]

most played class

they might just change for the sake of changing to keep it fresh

I play ret too

[candid tide]

I see no sepsis changes In the note

[stoic spruce]

There's absolutely no way my OP non-crackshot build survives these changes

[outer sky]

its removed

[halcyon timber]

Said sepsis was removed in datamined files

[grave basin]

So they keep refreshing the class

More people keep rerollijg to it

They keep abandoning this one

More people reroll out of it

[halcyon timber]

Standard procedure

[grave basin]

I see a problem here

[outer sky]

good ridance to sepsis

[candid tide]

What do we have now in place for it?

[potent pivot]

We don’t know yet

[grave basin]

Yes stepsis shoulda stayed in SL

[outer sky]

nothing. It was a choice node with inevitability. Now theres no choice. Just inevitability

[stoic spruce]

I liked sepsis

[grave basin]

Didn't fit sub at all

[potent pivot]

We just got a bunch of changes we’ve been asking for

[stoic spruce]

Is an assa thing for sure

[potent pivot]

I think it fit sub just fine

Maybe not thematically

[lime oar]

Can someone link these patch notes I can’t find it

[halcyon timber]

Wellgarrote didnt stick and having another dot was nice

[potent pivot]

But in practice

[outer sky]

@candid tide that wasnt a joke

[potent pivot]

Just go to wowhead

[outer sky]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/patch-11-0-5-datamined-class-changes-346471?utm_source=discord-webhook

[potent pivot]

Should be on the front page

[stoic spruce]

Trickz I'm mad

[grave basin]

Crackshot now also refreshes the cooldown of Between the Eyes upon gaining Stealth.

[candid tide]

Im fried

5am

[grave basin]

So this is just to overcome the bte bug right

Actually does it even

[potent pivot]

No

[grave basin]

Usually it's the other way round

[potent pivot]

Now you don’t have to think about when you cast bte

You can cast on CD now

[grave basin]

Aaah

[potent pivot]

And really

[grave basin]

Outlul keeps winning

[potent pivot]

You don’t want to vanish UNLESS it’s on CD

[outer sky]

BtE>rebuild CPs>Vanish

you want to vanish as soon after pressing BTE as possible

to get as much value from the CD reset

[potent pivot]

Yep

[potent pivot]

It is what it is man

[halcyon timber]

BTE rising

[potent pivot]

These are pretty good changes all around

[outer sky]

only change I dont like is auto proc tea and no step for outlaw

[grave basin]

Shadowdust gone is also extremely based

[outer sky]

Mistweaver monks are mad LOL Enveloping Mist is dispellable again

feelzbadman

[jolly sierra]

HAHAHAHAHA

[stoic spruce]

Fuck em

[wet crown]

this is season 2 stuff right

[stoic spruce]

No

[wet crown]

everything i'm hearing is awful

[halcyon timber]

Fuck their baja blast

[wet crown]

wtf

[outer sky]

no, 11.05

[wet crown]

that's ass

[outer sky]

mid season

[jolly sierra]

deserved, fucking MWs

[wet crown]

oh that's what I was thinking of mb

[jolly sierra]

i was tired of them trolling w fists when their priority has to heal

[outer sky]

we WANT fistweavers to be good bro.

[jolly sierra]

BWAHAHAHAHA

[outer sky]

rogues want as many pres evokers and fistweavers in the meta as possible

[stoic spruce]

LMAOOOO

[jolly sierra]

tbh rather prefer to keep them healing

[potent pivot]

Huh

[jolly sierra]

but yeah

[stoic spruce]

Hpal metas are the best

[jolly sierra]

w them outside

[halcyon timber]

Chi torpedo is a gas station hot dog rolling on the floor

[jolly sierra]

they are cleave cannon fodder

[rain crown]

Outlaw losing step though?

Outside of that changes seem good

[stoic spruce]

At least hook is on cdr

[jolly sierra]

the only thing i dont wanna back

is if they bring back kyrian priest ability

[outer sky]

theyre getting a 2nd hook charge so w/e

[jolly sierra]

if they do that

im out

[outer sky]

why

[halcyon timber]

Thats called archon halo now

[outer sky]

not a single rogue spec would prefer the healer to be far away

[jolly sierra]

because they doing fists will be on IC range

[worthy crag]

what's this about outlaw losing step? some patch notes?

[rain crown]

That snd change is great right

[potent pivot]

Ye

[rain crown]

@worthy crag ways off

Wow anniversary patch

[worthy crag]

where can I see?

[potent pivot]

Wowhead

Scroll up for link

[worthy crag]

the last pathc note I saw was like, enhance doing 60% more dmg

[rain crown]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/20th-anniversary-update-ptr-development-notes/1945843/1

[potent pivot]

[topaz bobcat]

more like 2%

[outer sky]

??

[rain crown]

Ngl the dark range rework sounds sick

[outer sky]

gotta explain this to me my guy

[rain crown]

Ranger

[jolly sierra]

if they are fistweaving they can be cleaved

[halcyon timber]

Ranger will be filthy

[jolly sierra]

but tbh hated them

[candid tide]

Symbols has 2 charges now

[outer sky]

3

[jolly sierra]

because they just trolled in SS

[halcyon timber]

Hitting shadow kill shots through paladins bop

[jolly sierra]

priorizing like shit

the other healer spec i hate a lot are rshams in pug games

shaman is by far the worst healer in SS

[outer sky]

if I had to pick a comp to play 3v3 against to save my life I'd pick TSG with a Fistweaver healer all day long and whatever is second is far, far behind

[jolly sierra]

i would pick a dpriest to play against

they are paper

[potent pivot]

Disc priest are NOT paper rn lol

[topaz bobcat]

u hate to play against or u hate to have on ur team?

[rain crown]

Not atm they arent

[topaz bobcat]

disc and pers are god

[jolly sierra]

i dont understand your stament

[rain crown]

Mw and druids seem easy to kill rn

[topaz bobcat]

fixed

[jolly sierra]

why tf then dies so fast

[halcyon timber]

Brain lag

[potent pivot]

Maybe you’ve just seen bad disc priests lol

[rain crown]

Disc wasn’t even paper last season and they’re stronger now

[potent pivot]

Disc is farming rn

[grave basin]

Ultimate Retribution – Mark an enemy player for retribution after they kill an ally within your active Aura. If the marked enemy is slain within 12 seconds, cast Redemption on the fallen ally.

[jolly sierra]

to have them, to play against are rlly a gift

[grave basin]

Yo what is this

You can pre ankh someone

[potent pivot]

You have to kill your target

To make it trigger

[jolly sierra]

dpriest is good, but im sure they die very easily

[potent pivot]

They don’t

[grave basin]

Sounds cheese

[potent pivot]

Promise

[outer sky]

you can 5v1 a disc priest and theyll still be a bitch to kill

[potent pivot]

A good disc priest can live through almost anything right now

[jolly sierra]

in this season?

[potent pivot]

Yes

[outer sky]

yep

[jolly sierra]

ofc, without rating damp is not something serious

xdd

[potent pivot]

Even in shuffle war games

[jolly sierra]

shuffle is not too tied to damp

[outer sky]

trust me bro if you see melee cleave with a fistweaver youve got it made

[jolly sierra]

unless is 2s or 3s

[worthy crag]

ouch, no more vanish CDR?

[jolly sierra]

i know i know

[halcyon timber]

Yes

[jolly sierra]

maybe is just because i hate play w them

[wet crown]

wait really

ugh

[topaz bobcat]

[worthy crag]

looks like invigorating shadowdust and sepsis are removed but no new talents to fill the spot

[wet crown]

horrible

[potent pivot]

Symbols talent

[worthy crag]

thats one

[potent pivot]

Symbols gets 3 charges now

[worthy crag]

need another to replace the 2nd

oh

so its a 2 pointer

but so is dust

[potent pivot]

Ye

Sepsis was a choice node

Atm it’s just not a choice node anymore

[candid tide]

Without sepsis macabre is weaker now

[potent pivot]

Not necessarily

[jolly sierra]

if i would be a list from best to worst to play with in SS i would say

1. rdrood

2. pevoker

3. dpriest

4. mweaver (NOT FIST)

5. hpriest
   6.hpal
   7.fistweaver

6. rsham

[worthy crag]

macabre is like the last reason to use sepsis

[potent pivot]

Macabre still functions the same

[worthy crag]

it sucks to lose a free cheap shot

[jolly sierra]

fucking rshams never q SS

[potent pivot]

….?

[candid tide]

They removed the free cs?