pvp

[tawny quest]

What's your talent tree looking like? Regular BtE build?

[potent pivot]

i'm pretty sure he runs the same build as the one in the pins, but with trickster

[outer sky]

One thing that's weird about rogue right now is that none of the 3 specs are playing the whole "trade offensive CDs for defensive CDs" game. Because we don't have any offensive CDs lol. Deathmark is trash and only good for a bit of energy regen. Adrenaline Rush is a maintenance buff, not a CD. I guess Shadow Blades is kinda like that but still, not really.

[wraith harness]

Just got boosted to 70 through dungeons, got 0 gear, any advice other than AH?

[potent pivot]

didn't loot the bosses?

check your mail maybe you got some gear from the bosses

[spring bough]

One in the pins. I do make changes to the class tree and took all the crimson vial talents tho. Then on the rogue side drop verse for swift slasher and your goood

[iron flicker]

Why not ah? Its so cheap

[wraith harness]

10k per piece

[wraith harness]

0

and the AH filters are not working

and AH is buggy

what is going on

[potent pivot]

none went to your mail?

[robust solstice]

returning player looking for advice on a BG spec...not arena. Is one more suitable than others at this time?

[iron flicker]

Don't have to buy the 564 or pvp pieces. You can get way cheaper

[potent pivot]

don't buy the 613 pvp gear

just buy the ~500ilvl pve gear

[wraith harness]

cant wear 500 ilvl stuff

like am I missing smth?

they all say they are wearable

but when i hover them it's lvl 80 items etc

[potent pivot]

ohh right

lvl 70

just buy DF greens

whatever says lvl 70

should be cheap

[wraith harness]

Like am I bugged

Left is before I click the auction

[iron flicker]

Its the ah, you can't get that piece at that ilvl for 70s. Buy DF green's

[wraith harness]

Those are legit 10k ea

[iron flicker]

Time to start questing 🙂

[wraith harness]

ya lemme just kill some mobs real q

xdddddddddd

[iron flicker]

I mean, unless you buy gear. You might have to get someone to take you around and kill rares ect.

Not like you have many options

If you can't do content to get the gear, gonna have to spend the gold

[wraith harness]

could snipe some items if AH wasen't so laggy and bugged

is it always like this?

[potent pivot]

no

it's been acting up since release

[wraith harness]

"item not found" on anything I try to buy

[topaz bobcat]

it was OP for a year in m+ and raid AOE doing 2x everyone's dmg

[dull bridge]

how did this happen

[spring bough]

Outlaw in bfa was apparently broken s tier uncapped blades flurry and I missed it

And flurry been capped at 7 since w talents lol

[steep kiln]

think every MDI team that season had two outlaw

[spring bough]

Prob cleaved off healer too lol

[grave pier]

What pvp are people using for arena 3's?

Talents*

[potent pivot]

they're in the pins

[spring bough]

Is that dalaran gaming guy still doing 5v5 arenas

[safe pelican]

Lmao i am trash at frost DK

Unholy can get the damage ramped up faster from what i see

[spring bough]

Frost dk a lil bit harder rotation wise. Stuff like howling blast isn’t pressed unless rime is up and trying not to hit obliterate unless killing machine is procd too

Can get into a wild rhythm of rime HBs > oblit and rinse repeat cause they keep proccing

[grave pier]

I would've thought people use different things for 2's, 3's and BGM?

is our stat priority Mastery?

cuz we can only get crit verst daggers

[potent pivot]

it's preseason

but the builds in the pins are very universal anyway

atm they're the best regardless of bracket

[potent pivot]

for what spec?

!stats

[lethal roost]

These are the recommended stat priorities for each spec in PvP. Please keep in mind that having suboptimal stats on some pieces such as tier set pieces is not the end of the world.

Subtlety: Vers>Mastery>Crit>Haste
Assassination: Vers>Mastery>Crit=/=Haste
Outlaw: Vers>Haste=/=Crit>Mastery
You likely want to stack at least 20% Haste on Outlaw for an extra GCD during ADR/Crackshot windows. Take 'em by Surprise gives you 10% during CS windows, so you only need 10-15% from gear.

[potent pivot]

either way, for both sin/sub you take the honor daggers

[grave pier]

@potent pivot it's been quite some time since I played Assas, from what I remember we spam Garrote Twice into Rupture, is that still the combo?

If not where can I find openner?

[potent pivot]

well now we play aoe like Indisciminate Carnage so your main goal is keep bleeds up on as many targets as possible

trying to spread aoe garrote/rupture in your stealth wnidow is pretty important if you can manage it

but now with Deathstalker hero talents you also need to Ambush the target you want to Mark during your Subterfuge window

so it can be garr->ambush->rupture

or gar->gar->rupture->ambush

[potent pivot]

the builds in the pins are all around builds

[jolly sierra]

"dude u killed a friend man"
"tell him he stole me a chest xdd"
"he was just waving he said"
"ye"
"ah he said he did"
"HAHAHA"
"i watched him in a raid"
"big thief"
"and i just avenged myself"
"deserved"

[safe pelican]

Yea i had one good game where the procs were just rolling it but outside of pillar my damage is so bad idk what to do when pillar isn’t up to sustain good dps

[spring bough]

Hekili got me used to the rotation it’s great

[safe pelican]

I also start panicking and spam howling blast when i can’t obliterate lmao , running reapers mark rn think i should go horsey

[safe pelican]

He has videos up on Yt ??

[spring bough]

No the addon

It’s a rotation addon that follows the BIS sims from raidbots

[safe pelican]

Ahhhh I knew that 🙂‍↔️

[spring bough]

Pika kills me. Bro posted up a new YT and he’s macking on wow chicks in game 😂

[potent pivot]

wow "chicks" in game

[spring bough]

😂

[potent pivot]

that was a guy

[spring bough]

Hilarious

I just started it lol

[potent pivot]

they hopped in voice last night

[spring bough]

LOL

[potent pivot]

the dude put his wife

in voice with pika

[marble crag]

Loving pvp sub deathstalker. Feels a lot better than in prepatch. Shame about the stealth bug i just keep wasting vanishes...

[spring bough]

Bro was probably so happy when he heard a chick at first lmaooooo

[potent pivot]

while he played arenas with him

then he took the mic after a while

it was fucking hilarious

[gilded gulch]

Somehow I feel

[grave pier]

ah

[gilded gulch]

pika isn't one who struggles on that front

[potent pivot]

well vanish isn't guaranteed stealth, remember that

[grave pier]

so playing with a mage as assass is kinda hard in 3's

cuz when he poly's my bleed's disappear

Do i run a more ST build then?

[gilded gulch]

At least he comes off as a big extrovert.

[potent pivot]

no

[potent pivot]

you still stay the same build

[grave pier]

gotchya

[potent pivot]

if he polys your bleeds off 1 target its alright

can reapply later

[grave pier]

thanks

[grave pier]

Do u have like a WA or smth that helps u track bleeds?

cuz im feeling like im re-applying bleeds even though they have it

when i should be envenoming

[potent pivot]

i use betterblizzplates

[spring bough]

Rings of power came out today… that’s gonna have to wait wows more important 😂

[potent pivot]

you just install the addon and open it with /bbp
then click the button that says "Magnusz Profile"

[safe pelican]

Lmaoooo i watched that video earlier apparently that “ chick “ is in my guild

I called them out in discord trying to get a gender reveal but nobody has spoken up yet 🤣

[grave pier]

But how do u track the other target's bleeds?

[grave pier]

ah

Using Name Plat eCooldowns but I see so much shit sometimes on their names

[potent pivot]

yeah i don't use anything like that

fuck that it's way too much noise on the screen

i use OmniBar for enemy CDs

[grave pier]

if u have a profile or smth i'd love to have it!

[potent pivot]

its a preloaded profile

[grave pier]

Nahj's or Magnusz?

[potent pivot]

Mag

[grave pier]

oh wow

this is so much cleaner

[potent pivot]

indeed

[grave pier]

https://wago.io/TYzyWji4e

I like to use this

but if only it would tell u the target its on

like player name

[potent pivot]

yeah that's more of a raid thing

i used to use something similar for raiding

but for pvp and m+ it's not very good

[rain crown]

Shadow blades blasts

[grave pier]

Gotchya. Side question, where are the training dummies in TWW area? I only see 1 PvP training dummy

[grave pier]

gotchya im stupid

[potent pivot]

[spring bough]

I just had four fury warriors on me in twin peaks

And they all died

Me and the other DPS and healer lived lol

Then we clapped their monk healer

didnt even have radiant proc once

storms did 8 times and hit for 604k

im gettin bad luck lol

[surreal barn]

400k average proc?

That’s a lot higher than I’d have thought

[spring bough]

it does aoe tho

so keep that in mind

but it hits like that 1v1 too

[lime oar]

I can attest I have storms rank 1 on both daggers and they slap

[spring bough]

@potent pivot trickster outlaw pls give this a try look at this craziness lol

that is unseens blade dmg

did 30 mil over 2nd lmao

[dull bridge]

trickster blasts

[candid tide]

do u guys ever dance during subterfuge?

[outer sky]

yes

[candid tide]

nahh fr?

seems like we wasting 5 sec of subterfuge no?

[outer sky]

no

Dance gives you combo points and a damage increase

[candid tide]

true but idk

[outer sky]

so if you're done cheap shotting and ready to do your go before subterfuge ends

dance

[candid tide]

Really?

[outer sky]

yes

youre trying to cram as much damage into your stuns as possible

holding dance is like

[candid tide]

Because we can spam like 3-4 strikes before subterfuge ends

[outer sky]

the opposite of that

plus dance resets quickly

so if you dont have it on CD

youre not getting CDR

and youre getting less dances

[candid tide]

Dang

[candid tide]

So u dance right after cheap?

Skip the whole subterfuge duration?

[outer sky]

yep

[lime oar]

You’re also not trying to DR your stuns in subterfuge and waste all your dmg dancing afterwards

[candid tide]

Insane

[outer sky]

^^^

I suspect sub wouldnt even run 6s subterfuge if they didnt need to in order to get double vanish

[candid tide]

Sorry i dont get it

So u mean, u only cheap once during subterfuge

And make use of that stun to go ham with dance etc

[lime oar]

Exactly

[candid tide]

Like from stealth u cheap once, dance and do ur go

Well need a ss for death stalker also

But ye

[candid tide]

K ima give it a try

[worthy crag]

damn these socket crystals are selling for a fortune

[candid tide]

Gonna try find a sequence macro that does the whole dance rotation

[lime oar]

I highly recommend practicing it normally

[candid tide]

Could mess up if the guy trinkets or some idd

[outer sky]

just practice on a training dummy

also if youre going to cheap more than one target you can hold dance until youre done cheaping

[lime oar]

You’ll get it down. The more you practice pressing the buttons the more you’ll understand how rogue works conceptually

[candid tide]

Yeah thats a great tip idd

[candid tide]

Do u double cheap often?

On a single target

[lime oar]

Like two targets? Yea

[candid tide]

No like cheap dance and another dr cheap after

On a target

[outer sky]

yes

in most cases you cheap 3x

biggest noob mistake new sub rogues make is gapping their stuns

[candid tide]

Creates only longer drs right?

[outer sky]

yeah

so your typical opener on a single target is this:

if you have shadow blades

Shadow Blades>Cheap>Dance/Symbols/Tea/Trinket>Secret Technique>Sepsis>Eviscerate>Cheap>eviscerate>Cheap>Eviscerate

and if you dont have blades, it's the same order of abilities, you just wont get as many finishers off in your stun lock

so it would be like

[candid tide]

Wait wait..

[clever scaffold]

so whats the go to rogue spec these days?

[outer sky]

cheap>Dance/Symbols/Tea/Trinket>Shadowstrike>Shadowstrike>Secret Technique or eviscerate if you dont have secret technique

now if you arent opening from stealth, you have to use the 1st global of dance to cheap

[candid tide]

I pop both badge and shadow blades together

[potent pivot]

whatever you prefer

[outer sky]

You CAN do that. It's not a huge deal

But I think it's better to pop it with Symbols

if you pop it with symbols you'll have it for more dances than if you pop it with blades

[candid tide]

But u pop both symbols and tea right after dance, thats kinda overpooling energy, or im not understanding it clearly

[outer sky]

yeah so youll basically never be energy starved during dance

thats why sub runs little to no haste

so its not a big factor

but you want both rolling

because tea buffs your eviscerate and secret tech damage by like 20%

and symbols buffs everything by 10%

[candid tide]

Tea and symbols together pools 140 energy

[outer sky]

correct

[candid tide]

While a cheap opener is free with talent

[outer sky]

its for damage not energy

[candid tide]

Ur basically pooling for nothing if im not wrong

[outer sky]

yeah we dont care about energy much during dance

[tawdry imp]

how's the sub burst looking right now? just tried it on my mage friend who's just stood there and it didn't seem too scary

[outer sky]

it's okay

[potent pivot]

losing some energy is whatever

sub is entirely based on stacking damage modifiers

[tawdry imp]

has it changed much from DF? I believe I had it down then so I'm just doing the same

[outer sky]

not really

[potent pivot]

think less about resources, more about stacking damage modifiers

[candid tide]

Sub has bad energy regen i think

[potent pivot]

only outside of your burst windows

[outer sky]

Play like you're trying to one shot someone every go. That's the best way I can describe it

[potent pivot]

the time outside of your burst windows

basically doesn't matter

[candid tide]

Def feels like that

[outer sky]

outside your burst windows just keep ruptures up basically

[potent pivot]

or send an evis to get Finality up for your next go

[candid tide]

On all 3 targets?

[potent pivot]

but mostly ruptures ye

[outer sky]

may as well

ya aint doing anything else without dance lol

[potent pivot]

you gotta do something for CDR anyway

to get dance back

[candid tide]

Ye agree lol

Toobad we have nothing to get blades bak quicker too

[tawdry imp]

i love the style of sub but I'm garbage at it in practice

fair play to those who're capable

[potent pivot]

watching palu try to play fatebound assa

is

[candid tide]

Its mechanics is pretty elaborated compared to assa

[tawdry imp]

i get the mechanics it's just the execution 😄

[candid tide]

Ye

[tawdry imp]

and how quickly you can take damage if you fuck up

[candid tide]

Shadowy duel op asl

[potent pivot]

@outer sky i think gladius is working?

[outer sky]

yeah I got the bicmex one

working now

[potent pivot]

sick

[spring bough]

The sickest thing about warbands is I have all my +20 key teleports from shadowlands

Farming castle never got easier for mogs lol

[swift smelt]

anyone got a good outlaw build

[potent pivot]

build in the pins is good

can play either hero tree with it

[swift smelt]

kk ty

[torpid swan]

what's stopping me from binding dance/symbols/tea/trinket/secret technique all on one key? :P

[outer sky]

the fact that sometimes you need to dance defensively, the fact that sometimes you wont be opening from stealth and need the first global of dance to cheap shot, the fact that sometimes you need tea for energy like to kidney someone, the fact that you wont have secret tech for every dance

[potent pivot]

[outer sky]

did I cover every reason?

[potent pivot]

you'd waste some teas binding them to symbols imo

the only thing you'd macro tea to is blades

need a separate bind for the other times you press it

[swift smelt]

whats the stat priority for outlaw, needs haste to 15%?

[torpid swan]

yea i would still have a key for each skill but you could theoretically bind all those things into sectec for the big Go's right?

[outer sky]

no because you often have to dance first to cheap shot unless you just opened from stealth

and unless you have blades, cheap wont give you full CPs for sectech

[torpid swan]

ah good point

if i were to dance > cheap shot into a sectec with full binds, i would be using dance twice for no reason as well

[outer sky]

yep

the shit that I just saw in a skirm

I couldnt have scripted it better

disc priest life swapped the DK to save him, spriest life swapped the disc priest to save himself

at the same time

[potent pivot]

you can't dance while you have dance active

i'm pretty positive

[outer sky]

so both of them got extremely low and insta died

to sudden demise

[outer sky]

yeah I think there is noob protection there

[torpid swan]

oh hmmm

[clever scaffold]

whats better for pvp right now? assa or sub?

[torpid swan]

dealer's choice

but i see a lot of sub

guess it's more fun to play

[potent pivot]

play whatever spec you like the most

they're all good

[burnt pendant]

mark for death is gone huh

[outer sky]

Yeah, they also made all the mounts the same speed

[outer sky]

do you think 27% haste is too much for outlaw?

[potent pivot]

are you counting from talents

[outer sky]

I have 31% with TEBS

19% without

dont ask my why its giving 12%

idk

[potent pivot]

19% from only gear?

might be a bit much

[outer sky]

yeah 19% just from gear

what do you think would be better?

15%?

[potent pivot]

yeah

[swift smelt]

@spring bough what you running for stat priority, just got back from a work trip and farming honor gear

[potent pivot]

!stats

[lethal roost]

These are the recommended stat priorities for each spec in PvP. Please keep in mind that having suboptimal stats on some pieces such as tier set pieces is not the end of the world.

Subtlety: Vers>Mastery>Crit>Haste
Assassination: Vers>Mastery>Crit=/=Haste
Outlaw: Vers>Haste=/=Crit>Mastery
You likely want to stack at least 20% Haste on Outlaw for an extra GCD during ADR/Crackshot windows. Take 'em by Surprise gives you 10% during CS windows, so you only need 10-15% from gear.

[spring bough]

20 crit, 11.8 haste, 25% verse and I have 16% mastery

[swift smelt]

ty gents

[outer sky]

Did KS get buffed with that last round of rogue changes?

[potent pivot]

nope

[spring bough]

Its decent though million plus on 7cps

[outer sky]

feels like its doing more than it did on beta

[potent pivot]

it was doing about the same for me

when i tested

[outer sky]

wtf is this

[potent pivot]

but that was in full conq gear

my guy

what is up with you a bugged ass talents lmfao

[spring bough]

Aent no way they nerfed that too lol should be like 12%

[potent pivot]

it shows 15% for me

[outer sky]

it should be 12%. Queue a skirm and tell me what it says in the game

[spring bough]

I thought I saw they nerfed it lol

They can’t have us too tanky I guess lol

[potent pivot]

yeah you're bugged

or are you playing with an evoker or something weird

[outer sky]

nope

[potent pivot]

says 15% in pvp combat for me

lemme q a skirm

[outer sky]

stop hitting the dummies and queue a skirm lol

mine says 15% on dummies too

[potent pivot]

pvp dummy combat activates the trigger on all tooltips

waiting for q pop

i have zero outlaw gear

this should be fun

wtf

this fucking game man

[waxen meteor]

I tried fate on sin in a random dungeon, it seems everytime after open, my first rupture returns 5-7 cp too

i couldn't find a talent that does that

could be a fairly good pvp option too but i just don't know how it happens

[outer sky]

ahahahhaa i knew it

[spring bough]

Did they like fk it up trying to nerf it

[gleaming pawn]

that's Bonespike + IC

[spring bough]

They tripled it instead of 3% nerfing it lol

[surreal barn]

Hilarious

[potent pivot]

SBS

[outer sky]

bone spike generates a lot of combo points, I really like it

[potent pivot]

i tried to tell palu CT is the play

[waxen meteor]

ah i see

[potent pivot]

he don't wanna listen

[outer sky]

CT is so good right now

hes probably still tryna make kingsbane work right?

[potent pivot]

he was

now he's trying to make Fatebound work with the CB envenom talent

trying to force Tails procs

[outer sky]

Man killing people as outlaw is so satisfying

[spring bough]

I love it

[outer sky]

pop a cap in their skull for 15% of their hp from 30 yards away and watch em drop

[spring bough]

I KSd a rogue FC in twin peaks earlier at 80% he blinded me at the end but died

[outer sky]

WAIT

I have an idea

[gleaming pawn]

out of curiosity, how much is y'alls Kingsbane doing that you think it's not worth it for single target killing

[potent pivot]

like 2m

total

[gleaming pawn]

hmmm, I see on average of 4m

[lucid citrus]

anyone watching palumor?

[potent pivot]

yeah i can't even watch

[gleaming pawn]

highest I've had was 5.4m, but I suspect that person had little vers

[lucid citrus]

yeah interest8ing that he is trying to make fatebound work

but it's too much of a setup to get a one shot

[potent pivot]

there's no shot

[gleaming pawn]

anyway, I ask because with the AoE mindset I've been playing with Caustic and because of Singular Focus, Caustic fucking cranks

and KB is part of that

[potent pivot]

you must've seen 2 casts of kingsbane on details or something

caustic also requires you press mutilate a lot more, so it'd have to do a lot of dam to compensate making you press it

[spring bough]

At 6 FTH stacks 😂

[gleaming pawn]

nah, this is on the triple pvp dummies but you can see here KB did 9m single target. I'm not in game to go queue some BGs right now, but even reducing this for vers levels it out paces the small amounts that internal bleeding does

Some caveats, that's full sending to see as big of numbers as I can instead of just sending the KB

[potent pivot]

something is off

[gleaming pawn]

but I'm also playing DTB

[potent pivot]

you sure you're on a pvp dummy

[gleaming pawn]

yeah the triple pvp dummies

the feedback loop of Singular Focus and Caustic is crazy

[potent pivot]

that's even with DTB

and improved poisons

[outer sky]

IB also gives you energy and adds a stack to lethal dose

[gleaming pawn]

are you optimizing your KB window? Shiv before | Shiv again 6 seconds before it ends | Tea 3 seconds before the end

this is the build I am running
https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/assassination/deathstalker/DAOFVVRFBRUVQmJBQCFBNVUVVVEZAQFKFUBFEFVVUCUA

[potent pivot]

the important part of KB in pvp is the initial hit

[outer sky]

you shiv 8s before it ends and tea 6s before it ends

[gleaming pawn]

if you want the most out of KB, you need to keep shiv up for the entirety

[outer sky]

in PvE youd vanish at 3s remaining with MA but in pvp thats not really a thing

[gleaming pawn]

sorry yes, I have my WA set to make some noises so I forgot what the timings were

[surreal barn]

Every class has dispels out the ass now

Lucky if kingsbane lasts a kidney

[lime oar]

this sentence alone about to make me learn outlaw

[potent pivot]

yeah even juicing it i'm only getting like 3.2m max

[gleaming pawn]

with 4 poisons on? that makes no sense

[spring bough]

So I dropped some crit so I could go from 23% to 25% haste in stealth and it’s definitely noticeable for how fast KS goes lol

[potent pivot]

yep

2.3m if no crits

3.2m with crits

[surreal barn]

Are you staying vanished for master assassin crits lol

That might give you a boost

[potent pivot]

that sounds troll af lol

[surreal barn]

Cause it is

[gleaming pawn]

nope, not even spec'd into MA

[surreal barn]

I’d do it and pop tea to proc the execute

[potent pivot]

even if i CB the initial hit it's doing the same range of dmg

oh it's just from splash damage

lmao

yeah there's no way that's worth

well no even with caustic on 3 dummies KB did 2.7m

caustic kinda pops off

that part is true

that shit is bugged

[gleaming pawn]

just logged back in to do a quick hit

[potent pivot]

yeah this shit is bugged

[gleaming pawn]

caustic has always been good, people just slept on it because of IB, I swear

but yes, the Singular Focus from Deathstalker is juicing it

well, that and you HAVE to run DTB or have another MS on your team

[potent pivot]

i got a 4m that time

[gleaming pawn]

since you have to have deadly poison on

[stoic spruce]

have I ever mentioned I hate crackshot?

because I hate crackshot

[potent pivot]

but that's also just because of caustic being broken i'm willing to bet

the poison procs doing dmg to off targets

is juicing the kingsbane

but that doesn't change that what made KB good was the initial hit

[river pollen]

do i need to complete the whole campaign that starts after lvl 80 to get access to pvp quests and crafting stuff?

[gleaming pawn]

I get a 3-5m KB on the single dummy too

[potent pivot]

don't think so no

[potent pivot]

i tried 6 times and never got a KB to do more than 3.2m

[river pollen]

oh cus i cant find the quests in the main city

[spring bough]

KS >>>

[potent pivot]

it's this guy

[stoic spruce]

KS >>>>>>>>>>>>> CS

I LOVE Killingspree

[river pollen]

lemme go say hi to em

[spring bough]

Hit 25% haste in stealth without the RTB haste buff then tell me how u like KS

It feels wild lol

[stoic spruce]

bet

[spring bough]

I’m gonna drop this for smoke bomb since I don’t need it lol

[potent pivot]

yeah i think there's too many downsides to this i gotta be real with you

[gleaming pawn]

I think I just realized what our difference is, you aren't sending DM too. With just KB alone I am usually 2.4-3m

[potent pivot]

i am sending DM

[gleaming pawn]

then I really really don't know why my KBs are that much higher

[spring bough]

Keep it secret shhhh

[potent pivot]

legit popping everything

[spring bough]

Avoid the nerfs

[potent pivot]

are you like fully enchanted or something maybe

[gleaming pawn]

nope zero enchants

[river pollen]

yep got them thanks! dont know why theyre not marked on the map

[potent pivot]

hmmmm

[potent pivot]

yeah same. glad you got it figured out.

[river pollen]

btw the rewards are just honor and rep now? we dont have wpvp gear?

[potent pivot]

not yet

[river pollen]

ohh kk ty

[gleaming pawn]

no DM, KB only on the single dummy

[potent pivot]

you might get half a Spark

which will let you complete your Spark quest to get a whole Spark

[potent pivot]

maybe it's just variance from poison procs

i just hit 4.5m

[gleaming pawn]

that's definitely some of it, I've hit 5.5m on the dummy before with god tier procs

[river pollen]

oh nice, I was gonna do it anyway cus the zones are so nice and since no season yet gotta take advantage of wpvp

[gleaming pawn]

anyway, I just wanted to share this bit of tech with you guys. I'm enjoying it and am excited to see how Caustic/KB fairs in rated next week

[outer sky]

My wife just walked in and put this big ass plate of food in front of me

[potent pivot]

daaamn

[spring bough]

Why am I getting slightly more than 10% haste when I stealth lol

[potent pivot]

tebs is giving 12% apparently

[spring bough]

I go from 13.9 to 25.3

Is that bugged I’m guessing

[outer sky]

yeah TEBS is giving more than intended

[spring bough]

Maybe they leave it lol

[lime oar]

@spring bough can u send any recent screenshots u got for outlaw, tryna see the dmg breakdown

[outer sky]

This was my most recent 3v3 skirm as outlaw if that helps you at all

[spring bough]

It honestly can change from game to game sometimes but it’s usually flurry, killing spree, pistol, unseen in the top damage

[lime oar]

thanks i havent touched outlaw. ever. lmao

[spring bough]

this my last 2s

[outer sky]

was that a 3s?

oh

2s

[spring bough]

ripped them

[outer sky]

yeah that looks about right

[spring bough]

my teammate died off the bat

lol

torque the rogue too. blinded him when i had full CP, vanished then crack window to end with the KS

had to get that blackjack up XD

[outer sky]

i forget about blackjack half the time

unless I need both disarm and cloak talent I usually play tricks

[potent pivot]

caustic might actually be good

i can't find a range for it tho

[outer sky]

caustic in arena?

I can see it in a team fight in RBGs

[spring bough]

its gotta be like 8 yards or 10 for aoe lol

[potent pivot]

did you see the breakdowns from 3 targets

those were from like 14 second rotations

6-8m damage in 14 seconds ain't bad

maybe even into just melee cleaves

[outer sky]

he was PVEing them. I dont think in a real game we're pressing envenom enough to get value out of it

nah dude you're fried

you also have to keep mutilate up on them

[potent pivot]

i kinda think we are going to be pressing envenom

[outer sky]

so every 10s you have to mutilate

and then do your envenoms

idk I'm all for trying cheeky shit. As far as I know I was the first one to suggest dropping KB and go full rot spec on beta

but that just doesnt sound good

[spring bough]

12yards for caustic spatter that’s pretty good range

PvP modifier is 1 too that’s wild lol

[outer sky]

I just dont see it

weaving in mutilates

to proc something that spreads envenom

[spring bough]

i dont play enough of sin to comment more than that lol

[outer sky]

at the expense of IB which procs off of shit we already press

buffs our bleeds

and gives us energy

[potent pivot]

don't knock it til ya try it

[spring bough]

thats the statement of the week

pin of the week comment right there XD

[gleaming pawn]

gotta proc that sexy doomblade talent so it doesn't feel like a complete waste

(in regards to pressing mutilate)

[spring bough]

this gonna be the season of more aoe in rateds? lol

[gleaming pawn]

but where does IB give us energy, it's only garrote and rupture that proc energy back

[gleaming pawn]

AoE has been the Sin meta for much of Dragonflight too, and just PvP in general

[potent pivot]

IB just gives us 2% damage from Lethal Dose

i'm not sure if Caustic does or not

i assume it does

[gleaming pawn]

that's what I thought, thought I was forgetting something

Caustic also cleaves everything we do, Envenom, poison procs, KB, Plauge damage from Deathstalker, etc

[potent pivot]

caustic isn't exactly a weapon poison in itself

and it's not exactly a nature damage over time either

it's just a cleave of both of those things

so not sure if it gives LD

[gleaming pawn]

I'd have to go ask Whispyr if Caustic gives a LD stack, I'm really not sure

oh yeah and in regards to LD, it's technically a wash in most instances. Because if you are pressing Mutilate to keep up Caustic, you are adding the doomblade bleeed to the target while you lose the LD stack from Internal Bleeding

[rain crown]

The fuck

Fat finger on phone

[outer sky]

but without cuastic you can get both

and no way caustic gives LD

but I think the bigger issue is the intentionality of it

[gleaming pawn]

yeah, but I would argue the output of caustic cleave out weighs that 2% from LD

[outer sky]

if you're getting value out of caustic youre in a cleave situation

so you wouldnt want to press mutilate there

when you do press it its because you can only hit 1 target

then you get both the doomblade and IB bleeds

[gleaming pawn]

it has never been hard to juggle it in M+, so I don't personally see an issue with keeping Caustic up. But I agree that it feels not great to have to press it when you're just trying to AoE

[outer sky]

that's totally different. In M+ your tank can group mobs up for you so you can always get giga value from it

and youre AoEing 5+ targets

[gleaming pawn]

we're just talking mechanically right, because the numbers currently are showing Caustic doing huge work regardless

[outer sky]

not 1 or 2

[gleaming pawn]

with the build I linked, you get most of your bleed rot damage and a huge spike of Caustic damage every minute

[outer sky]

you have 3 targets perma rooted next to each other

[gleaming pawn]

that was just for dummies because I logged in really quick

I have used it in BGs, to the same effect

[outer sky]

I can see it in BGs

I cant see it in arena

[potent pivot]

but mutilating in BGs?

[outer sky]

with that many targets and how much dam caustic does its prob worth

if youre in team fight

1 mut every 10s

inevitably a few will be grouped up

[potent pivot]

does reduced dam on 5+ i think

but yeah

[gleaming pawn]

I think you're getting hung up on thinking I am trying to say THIS is the build. I just wanted to point out that I am getting big Kingsbanes and with those, big Cuastic numbers

if this doesn't work in SS or 3s, so be it

but there is big promise for Solo RGBs

Caustic is also just a poison version of Blade Flurry, so I could see use cases for Caustic in Arena where you would see an Outlaw cleave working

it's not 1 to 1 because Outlaw is tankier, but it's still something to look into

[outer sky]

yeah if blade flurry only proc'd off of dispatch

and required a button not normally pressed to up keep it

[potent pivot]

so what you're saying is

if we press mutilate this season you think its good

[stoic spruce]

I dont notice the kidney shot CD increase

[gleaming pawn]

it's like I personally pissed on his keyboard or something

[potent pivot]

naw

he's just telling you what he thinks

i mostly agree with him

[gleaming pawn]

like I said, I'm just trying to point out something everyone was not even thinking about. If it doesn't work out, then at least some eyes were on it

[potent pivot]

yeah there's no issue

[outer sky]

Something nobody was thinking about huh?

[potent pivot]

[gleaming pawn]

4 months ago, just calm down ffs

[outer sky]

I'm not uncalm. Just because I'm pointing out various issues with the build you're suggesting doesnt mean I'm raging at you

[twin burrow]

Mak gora when

[fallen scaffold]

are we suppposed to be doing delves while leveling? does it increase speed

or is it faster to just quest

[potent pivot]

i think there was a strat at one point to spam them

but i think dungeon spam is faster

but if you haven't completed the campaign on your main then quest

you need compaign done anyway

[fallen scaffold]

word

[steel scarab]

I tried Caustic Spatter in arena last season

According to details, it almost never did anything

Hoping it's better now

[fallen scaffold]

idk i hate pressing mutilate tbh im playing ib unless cs is claerly better

[outer sky]

it hasnt changed mechanically but envenom is hitting harder and has some more modifiers

another problem with caustic is you cant target swap as cleanly and maintain it

you have to mutilate the new target

[steel scarab]

Interesting. Yeah, you're heavily punished for swapping with Caustic

[fallen scaffold]

and i dont want to have to take deadly poison

kind ofa dealbreaker

[steel scarab]

It goes nuts with Kingsbane, but you need all enemies on top of each other

Which often simply doesn't happen

[fallen scaffold]

do we know what the optimal path in the deathstalker hero tree is gunna be

CtW into fatal intent?

[steel scarab]

Deadly is pretty fine, Wound in the prior seasons was so incredibly weak it was never a must-use

Dunno about now though

I haven't installed the xpac yet

So don't take anything I'm saying about the past too seriously

Just food for thought

[outer sky]

wound is 25% at full stacks

thats as good or better than any MS besides sharpened

deadly does meh damage

[fallen scaffold]

lil bit of dam too

[steel scarab]

Obviously Deadly is much more attractive when you can use it in addition to Wound or Amplifying via DTB

Unfortunately DTB was awful last season

Is it any good now?

[potent pivot]

dtb/deadly/wound/caustic does decent dmg in close cleave situations

haven't tested anything other than the 3 target dummies though

[outer sky]

nope

[potent pivot]

it's likely not good arena, maybe okay into melee cleaves

[outer sky]

the problem with DTB is it competes with your exectute and/or with sudden demise

and you have to sink 2 points into Poison Bomb

which is garbage

so it would need to be borderline broken to actually be taken

[steel scarab]

Yeah Bomb is wretched in pvp

In SL Bomb felt so impactful

Through all of DF it never felt good at all

[potent pivot]

comp stomp is actually insanely fast honor rn

now that people actually have some gear

[indigo hill]

I thought comp stomp was last week and it's that panda one now?

[outer sky]

they changed it

[jolly sierra]

are any of u working on blizzard or wtf is the reason in the last campaign cinematic there is a VERY explicit feet focus in last shot

i know a lot of u are going barefoot to arena

[potent pivot]

[outer sky]

what? lol

[jolly sierra]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1f3gkie/xalatath_cutscenes_are_getting_out_of_hand/

[jovial sundial]

"I will STEP on you heroes"

[potent pivot]

looks like they changed the gear scaling

all gear is scaling up to 588 no matter what ilvl it is

instead of 535+ scaling to 600

[outer sky]

when?

[jolly sierra]

can u still go w sulfuras to bgs?

[light phoenix]

wq

[jolly sierra]

do u have the lego daggers?

[outer sky]

huh?

[jolly sierra]

to try if they scales too

[potent pivot]

not sure

i just know the scaling is different now

[potent pivot]

was this just now?

[outer sky]

yeah, i just fnished the game i screenshot it in

[potent pivot]

even my 548s are only scaling to 588

but i'm doing comp stomp

so maybe they just changed comp stomp

[potent pivot]

yeah if you guys didn't know btw

you can loot sockets now

from these chests

[light phoenix]

yeah good luck finding them though lol

[potent pivot]

yeah i think 1 spawns every 3 hours

in one of the pvp areas

[light phoenix]

and its rng as to which one it spawns at

[potent pivot]

my homie has 3 socket items already

[vestal cape]

Which chests are we talking about? The airdrops?

[potent pivot]

no

he just linked it above

@outer sky check it out

[vestal cape]

Ah shit my b I see it

Scrolled too fast lol Ty

[outer sky]

say what?

[vestal cape]

Think he meant to link me

[potent pivot]

no

[potent pivot]

you can get sockets rn

[outer sky]

does it involve finishing the campaign?

[potent pivot]

.

you didn't finish the campaign

?

[outer sky]

and wouldnt it make more sense to save them and socket the conq items?

[outer sky]

nah not yet

[potent pivot]

yes ofc

i'm saying you can get them for free

right now

[outer sky]

ah fuck ok I guess Ill do the damn campaign

[potent pivot]

idk if you have to or not

but those chests than spawn in pvp areas have them

100% drop rate but they only spawn once every 2 or 3 hrs in 1 random zone

[jolly sierra]

btw

which is the fastest way to get 78-80? i ran short of main quests

[potent pivot]

dungeons

[jolly sierra]

kitchen in the dungeon?

kk

[woven moss]

hey guys

just now learning sin so trying to get into the pvp scene

usually a ret main here so any help or guidence is always welcomed

[outer sky]

what do you want to know specificially?

[azure rapids]

why is the pinned talent builds for Outlaw not have thistle Tea, is the 1 point in Lethality worth it? also losing blade rush for RB talents

[outer sky]

mastery is kinda trash for outlaw so tea doesnt matter. theres 1 point in lethality because there's nowhere better to put it. And you can drop count the odds for blade rush if you want. that's up to you

[azure rapids]

thank you 😄

for the explanation

are there any enchants already for gear ?

[outer sky]

yes but theyre rather expensive so most of us are waiting until we get conquest gear to buy them. But if you want them now, go for it

[safe turret]

should be noted you dont get weapons til week3 of the season, so enchanting your honor weapons will see use for quite awhile

[potent pivot]

some people are planning on buying a conq weapon week 1

[safe turret]

pretty sure you cant, thought they said it doesn't show up on vendor until you complete the quest

Developer’s note: In conjunction with the conquest earned update, we wanted to provide additional context on how players will earn their weapons. In 11.0 Season 1, players can earn a set of Conquest weapons suitable to their specialization without having to spend Conquest. Players can pick up the quest, “Weapons of Conquest” either by entering a Rated PvP match or by going to Dornogal to speak with the Conquest Quartermaster, Lalandi. This quest will task them with earning 2500 Conquest, which is achievable on Week 3 of the season. Players can then complete this quest by speaking with Lalandi. She will give you weapons, shields, and off-hands appropriate for your specialization. After completing this quest, players will be able to use Conquest to purchase weapons from Lalandi as normal.

[potent pivot]

hmm

have heard multiple people say they're buying em week 1 regardless

[safe turret]

prob just weren't aware of the change

[potent pivot]

they were aware of the week 3 thing

maybe not the vendor part

it's also worded kinda weird

so if that's the case idk why they wouldn't just say "you will not be able to buy weapons until week 3"

[outer sky]

whats conq cap week 1 again?

[potent pivot]

sec

1600

[safe turret]

After completing this quest, players will be able to use Conquest to purchase weapons from Lalandi as normal. implies you cant buy weapons "like normal" before completion of the quest

[outer sky]

god thats gunna be so slow

[potent pivot]

implies it, but doesn't seem very clear imo

[potent pivot]

faster than before

but not by much

1600 w1 and +600 every week

[outer sky]

should be like 2k

if tyhere are gunna be pieces costing 800+conq

[potent pivot]

and 1k per week

[outer sky]

I honestly dont know why they time gate that shit

I mean, I know why

to keep people who cant play a week from falling too far behind

but still

[potent pivot]

well week 2 you'll be able to earn 2200 total right

[outer sky]

add a better catch up mechanic

[potent pivot]

so week 1 you buy 1 main piece 1 off piece

week 2 you buy 2 main pieces maybe 1 off piece

by week 3 you'll be almost fully geared i think

[outer sky]

how do you buy 2 main pieces on week 2

[potent pivot]

also to keep degen grinders from getting too far ahead

[outer sky]

say you spend 1400 conq week 1

youll only have 800 week 2

[potent pivot]

oh no

it's a cumulative thing

i'm fried

[outer sky]

yeah

so

itll take

for

fucking

ever

and they removed the pvp row from the vault

so honestly gearing will be SLOWER than before

[potent pivot]

yeah actually

i don't think that's enough compensation in the buffs

it gets rid of bad luck but still

what were the values on the vault slots

idr

[fallen scaffold]

are pvpers doing vault at all now?

[potent pivot]

like how much conq did you have to earn to unlock the 3rd slot

[potent pivot]

nope

[fallen scaffold]

is there any meaningul temporary upgrades we can get in mean time from vault at all

[outer sky]

no

[fallen scaffold]

yupp

[outer sky]

not a ton

[potent pivot]

you would have to get like mythic raid level gear

to replace honor gear

lmao

[fallen scaffold]

kekw

[potent pivot]

it was more than weekly cap though wasn't it

like you'd be playing arena matches for vault and not even getting anymore conq

so now there's like

less incentive to actually play the game

[outer sky]

6250

[potent pivot]

yeah that's a lot

now the only gear incentive you have per week is like 5 arena games

only other reason to play is purely for rating

[stoic spruce]

So you're saying

Popo was right again?

You can just mail me the apology

No biggie

[potent pivot]

nah

popo is always wrong

[stoic spruce]

WRONG

You're wrong

[potent pivot]

haven't you learned this by now

[stoic spruce]

I learned how right and cool and awesome I am

Photo of me being cool

[jolly sierra]

r u the rock or the nerd?

[stoic spruce]

the rogue

its okay

I know assa mains arent all there

so I'll give you that

we love you

[jolly sierra]

i was the one taking the picture

[stoic spruce]

why you being mean to Sub :(

[jolly sierra]

huh

[stoic spruce]

uhu

oh guess what

[outer sky]

@potent pivot this is my living version of that emoji you like so much btw lol

[potent pivot]

Lmao dope

[stoic spruce]

no thats a hedgehog

not dope

bro

its wild there have been people living underground during the WC3 era

I wonder if the cataclysm effected them at all

[potent pivot]

Is there any reason to do the level 80 campaign

Like at all

[stoic spruce]

the story is very good

but thats it

so far at least

[outer sky]

oh you only need to do the leveling campaign? thank god

[potent pivot]

Iirc nothing was really locked behind the story in DF

[candid tide]

The first tier opens up some content stuff

The second tier gets ur the earthen race

[potent pivot]

Wdym by content stuff

[candid tide]

Like world quests etc

[fallen scaffold]

what is the earthern qace shit

race

[potent pivot]

Earthen dwarves

[fallen scaffold]

like literal new race?

playable?

[candid tide]

And some acc shared stuff i cant remember, finished the first tier campaign yesterday

[potent pivot]

Ye

[fallen scaffold]

no shit

howd i miss that

lmao

[potent pivot]

Wdym by first tier

The leveling campaign?

Because that’s all I’ve done and I’ve got WQs

[candid tide]

Yeah ull get a notice that uve finished the campaign and there comes 4 perks with it, but then u can actually still do further more campaign and thats for the earthen race

[candid tide]

Ye u get WQ and some acc shared thingy

[fallen scaffold]

does horde have an allied race?

new one

[stoic spruce]

the dwarves are neutral

[fallen scaffold]

oh fr

thats kinda coo

racials are kinda meh tho

im lookin now

[candid tide]

Looks like a tank focused race

[potent pivot]

That well fed buff could actually be good

[fallen scaffold]

ye

[potent pivot]

They’re not allowed to eat feasts but can choose what stats they want perma

That actually might be good depending on how much secondary stat it gives

[fallen scaffold]

would need to be a lot

others racials r bad

[potent pivot]

Perma +10% armor

[outer sky]

racials arent "meh" at all. Orc 10% reduced stun duration, shadowmeld for rogues and druids, gnome escape artist, dwarf god cloak

[potent pivot]

Is not that bad ngl

[fallen scaffold]

im saying the earth dwarf racials

specfically

alll of them

[potent pivot]

I’m surprised more rogues don’t play human for the secondary stat ngl

[fallen scaffold]

imo the only good one is the well fed buff if it ends up actualyl scaligng well, just doesnt make it a better pic over other races statiscially

[potent pivot]

Their active ability could be good too

Ya never know

[gilded gulch]

its a channeled cast

frontal

[potent pivot]

Ik

[outer sky]

being able to slip into stealth in the middle of the fight a 3rd time is just too good

[fallen scaffold]

^

and hoomanz

[potent pivot]

Human sub rogue goes hard tho

Needs meld the least

[outer sky]

yeah it's good. But if you ever play assa or outlaw you feel so nerfed

[fallen scaffold]

i meant for other classes i wouild never play any other race besdides ne on rogue tbh LOL

[potent pivot]

All my other alts are human

Except druid

[fallen scaffold]

cause thats ne 2 bby

[potent pivot]

And 1 orc rogue

[outer sky]

nelf is big for druids too. And healers love gnome for escape artist. I also wouldnt call orc racial or dwarf racial unimpactful

[fallen scaffold]

gnome is warrior bis

fosho

and monks tbh

[stoic spruce]

this outlaw tree is pissing me off ngl

[potent pivot]

I made my warr human

Fuck playing a gnome

[outer sky]

what about it?

[potent pivot]

The fact that crackshot exists on it prolly

[stoic spruce]

that too

but I have a different complaint

all the power is on the bottom right of the tree lol

bottom left

[potent pivot]

Better enjoy your +36% stamina while it lasts

[stoic spruce]

I was looking at the class tree when I said that

so the bottom right was on my left

I got a huge blister from a burn

should I pop it

[fallen scaffold]

no bro

itll pop on its own 😉

[stoic spruce]

im gonna ask someone fun

if by

on its own you mean

by my pocket knife

then yeah

[outer sky]

what kind of knife do you have

[outer sky]

i usually carry one of these. microtech switchblades. from left to right, ultratech drop point, dirac delta, ultratech bayonet. theyve been tested and remain functional even after 25000 foot lbs of pressure being applied to them. favorite knives of military ops for a reason. and theyre all stonewashed M390 steel so theyre super sharp and wear resistant

[stoic spruce]

bunch of misc brands

buck, gerber, etc

[outer sky]

My father in law got my an engraved buck 103

[stoic spruce]

I have a kbar somewhere

[outer sky]

you should check out my company

https://www.battbattalion.com/

I'm a class 3 weapons dealer

specializing in military grade firearms, mutitions, knives, survival equipment, etc

[stoic spruce]

very interesting

[fallen scaffold]

what state

[stoic spruce]

ive always wanted a shockwave lol

[outer sky]

West Virginia but I can ship anywhere

[outer sky]

I gotchu

[fallen scaffold]

i just had a question about supressors

if youre well hearesed at all

and SBR's specifically

[outer sky]

very. I suppress almost all of my own weapons and ive been selling them for a while. Same with SBRs

[fallen scaffold]

since WA just changed the laws and they dont take a year+ like they used to, im tryna get one for my 13.5in ar15 (5.56/.223).. correct me if im wrong but if i wanted a surefire, the full size one would work better right? compared to the mini2. i just have a vague memory about reading something about "if barrel is < then use socom over mini etc

or am i mixing that up and i actually am supposed to use a mini

[outer sky]

longer suppressors always suppress better than shorter ones because they can trap more gasses before the projectile leaves them

weight and compactness are the benefits of shorter ones

at the expense of sound suppression

[fallen scaffold]

like if irc, youre not supposed to use a mini2 on anything less than 15inch beause the force?

[outer sky]

it's "optimized" for 14.5" and longer barrels

[fallen scaffold]

the mini2?

[outer sky]

yeah

[fallen scaffold]

gotcha

[outer sky]

you could run it on a 10.5 if you wanted to

surefire has sound tests from 10.5" barrels

but I'd go with the longer one

[fallen scaffold]

word - yeah that seems to be the consesus

theyre both sick

whats your opinion on supressors on EDC's/pistols in general

well i guess you couldnt really put one on an edc kekw

[stoic spruce]

oof

yeah lets not lol

[wanton breach]

why would you carry a knife with you all the time? is that legal? is where you live an irl pvp zone?

[stoic spruce]

I have on on the one I keep in my truck

[fallen scaffold]

thats what i was just thinkin

the car gun

lol

[outer sky]

I carry a knife and a gun with me. The knife isn't for protection its for utility

[outer sky]

Dont suppress your carry gun lol

[potent pivot]

is it illegal to carry a knife in some places

[fallen scaffold]

oh i wouldnt lmao

[stoic spruce]

yeah

[wanton breach]

yeah

[stoic spruce]

but have I ever obeyed?

no

[wanton breach]

is this some sort of american joke I'm too european to understand?

[fallen scaffold]

apparently LOL

[potent pivot]

that's wild

[fallen scaffold]

well there is no joke

thats the thing

AMERIKER

[outer sky]

I have US and Italian citizenship so legally I'm as European as you and I carry a knife and a gun everywhere i go /shrug

[loud ember]

am i supposed to use Spark of Omens to craft anything specific for PVP?

[potent pivot]

not yet

[loud ember]

seems like a dead resource now that you cant infuse PVP ilvl

[stoic spruce]

should probably wait on crafting

[outer sky]

10000% wait on crafting

[loud ember]

fair

[fallen scaffold]

week 4/5 ?

[loud ember]

what am i waiting for exactly

[fallen scaffold]

conq