pvp

[fallen wharf]

Question with honor. Can you max out at 4k, send it to an alt, max 4k, send to alt, etc...then take it all back tomorrow when honor goes back to 15k and buy full set?

[wintry dew]

thats what notrickz is doing yeah

[last jasper]

btw

there is a 34slot bag lying here in hallowfall if some1 need it

[potent pivot]

you lose 20% every time you send, so you have to farm 4k caps on a different character each time

then tomorrow you send all of those caps to your main

[potent pivot]

yeah i think i linked this earlier :d there's another free bag somewhere else too if you check wowhead they show how to get it on one of the recent posts

[last jasper]

oh, I should check this. I would love to get another one 😄

https://tenor.com/view/joaquin-phoenix-joker-smile-sad-smirk-gif-16148806

[wintry dew]

Dps life

[potent pivot]

o.O

[last jasper]

it was 5min max the whole ea

[potent pivot]

you eu?

[last jasper]

yea, idk. I thought it bugged out. its actually 20min by now, cuz I canceled the first one

yea eu

[potent pivot]

maybe someone found a cracked leveling method

[last jasper]

probably just beta

[potent pivot]

i wonder if we can get those 2 bags on every character

i'm assuming so

@wintry dew did you see what i posted in #transmog last night

[fallen wharf]

Returning to rogue and trying Sin for the first time, I see the pins, thank you! Don't mean to ask a dumb question, but are we using wound poison? I always used that as Sub.

[potent pivot]

yeah we've been using wound over deadly for a little while now

[fallen wharf]

Thanks

[wintry dew]

let me recheck

#transmog message ? if thats it then yeah, good luck xDD

[potent pivot]

yeah

that's like my big end game goal

i randomly found the BMAH in Dornogal and boom there it was lmao

[wintry dew]

that will go for goldcap everytime

[potent pivot]

ye ik

a lot more significant than a zulian lol

[wintry dew]

especially since there are discords tracking ALL servers

and enough people willing to pay

[potent pivot]

ye

[last jasper]

yeap, you do 😄

[potent pivot]

just got that one literally now on my rogue :p

these zones are fucking massive

[dapper chasm]

@wintry dew Still waiting on that long ass review

The hyphen is between long and ass, not ass and review

[spring bough]

32 hours then we all live

then another what 2 week wait for season lol

[dapper chasm]

I'm going abroad for 2 weeks as of tomorrow - suits me just fine

[spring bough]

i feel like some of my classes dont get ques

hunter took forever. dk i was queing as dps and it wouldnt be more than 2 min. hunter ques are 10 sometimes

[potent pivot]

just depends on how many people are q'ing

[surreal barn]

Where to

[dapper chasm]

Poland - Work - implementing something boring for some boring company

[surreal barn]

Heading to the UK for two weeks tomorrow myself

[dapper chasm]

Land of the free

I'm not looking forward to this

I suggested something nearly 3x my daily rate and they fucking accepted

[surreal barn]

Nice! There’s this tennis instructor that randomly invited me to their house rent free

I said hell why not

[dapper chasm]

Huh, my travel is tennis related

[potent pivot]

as long as it's not this boring

[dapper chasm]

It's mostly me in a room with the CEO/CFO/CISO letting them know why they'll go to prison if they don't do as I say

They swing their dicks for an hour, then suggest drinks for an hour, then they finally listen

[lime oar]

sounds like an episode of mad men tbh

[dapper chasm]

No, in real life they are very, very, very rarely competent people

Mostly just rich kids who got put in spots they have no right to be in

Once that meeting is done I travel around to go to actual proper departments that actually run the company

[half bobcat]

my god this

[stoic spruce]

Why would you want to be a broad for 2 weeks?

[half bobcat]

lol the accuracy of this is staggering

[dapper chasm]

I charge by the day

[stoic spruce]

Smart

[dapper chasm]

They're offering over a month's salary per day - I wont say no to a 2 hour flight for that

[half bobcat]

also some serious fucking tennis is you are telling them they will go to jail @dapper chasm

[dapper chasm]

Well, it's a company that owns several schools

Thinks things like GDPR is a "suggestion"

They are SELLING personal data on the side

[lime oar]

wild

[stoic spruce]

Oh no, they have my gooning sesh

Whatever shall I do

[dapper chasm]

Most meetings is me batting back the usual "How do we avoid following this LAW"

They think everything is a game or I'm holding back the secrets

[lime oar]

money corrupts

[spring bough]

41k gold from not even 30 minutes of herbing/mining last night between ques 😂

[dapper chasm]

Bros, I didn't come here to discuss my boring-ass job

I came to talk about exciting things

UIs

[lime oar]

well its kinda interesting so

too bad

[dapper chasm]

Oh, yeah, very interesting - Need to let legal know this, need IT to implement this

Infosec is the shit, I came just thinking about it

But UIs - that's the realness right there

Personally, I'm a fan of a 5px gap between icons, but I am open to new ideas

[stoic spruce]

Hire me

I'm impressionable and don't know the difference between right and wrong.

[dapper chasm]

I consult, I don't hire people

Solo gamer

[stoic spruce]

Consult to hire me

[dapper chasm]

[stoic spruce]

I'm cute

We'd make so much more money

[dapper chasm]

If you want to get into infosec, it's not hard - but you'll need 5ish years of being a Infosec Officer for a company first

Once you get to ISO27001 qualifications, you can privately consult

After that, you can aim for management or CISO

[stoic spruce]

Can I consult my weiner in your dad?

[dapper chasm]

I prefer working half the year, so consultation suits me

[stoic spruce]

Or is that a different qualification

[dapper chasm]

I'm not sure that would even get you a printed certificate

[half bobcat]

and the rogue has been located in chat

[stoic spruce]

Omg meee

[potent pivot]

@wintry dew gathering is broken

[dapper chasm]

Oh, oh, I forgot, I made a XP bar last night

[lime oar]

theres rogues in this discord?

[stoic spruce]

Just me

[stoic spruce]

I'll look into it

[dapper chasm]

This is the new XP bar

[potent pivot]

for real

[dapper chasm]

Haven't sorted the looks yet, but the bones are all there

[stoic spruce]

Yooo new virus dropped

[spring bough]

for real. everytime i put a stack of some herbs on there its like 1k minimum and even more with mining stuff

[potent pivot]

i've got no idea what i'm doing tbh, not spec'd into anything

[wintry dew]

Holy Jesus of money's

[potent pivot]

just went to see what ~20 mins would do

[surreal barn]

My sister is in it for a large firm, good money

Always amazes her about how many nerds feel the need to dick swing

[stoic spruce]

For real

[dapper chasm]

UIs, my man, UIs

I'm sick of discussing dicks

[surreal barn]

Yeah right

[stoic spruce]

What's with you and urinary infections?

[dapper chasm]

Never even had a kidney stone

[surreal barn]

PvP is penis vs penis

[dapper chasm]

The secret is I drink WATER

Ignoring the fact that fish shit in it

Does anyone run the GW2 UI? It's the only non-zanaken package I thought looked great

I mostly like the reskinning of WoW menus

There used to be a standalone addon I forgot the name of that used to just reskin existing menus

[surreal barn]

I tried it after playing gw for so long.

Decent, but I felt the need to swap back

[dapper chasm]

To Zanaken UI?

[surreal barn]

Uh, yeah. Of course…

[dapper chasm]

[surreal barn]

I could see it being better for a class with less skills

[waxen meteor]

What we do after lv80?

[dapper chasm]

Build UIs

[waxen meteor]

Try to max honor and finish main quest?

[dapper chasm]

I feel I am talking to a wall here

I found a video of my UI from 13 years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikPgw49BtZ8

I was so young, so clueless to proper scaling of elements...

Centred buffs instead of justified left - Oh, the madness of youth...

[vivid pond]

yo

is assass playing fatebound or deathstalker atm

and are people now playing 4 poison build instead of zoldyck

[potent pivot]

deathstalker and no

[surreal barn]

What’s your highest evisc so far

[vivid pond]

thanks man!

also do you know what outlaw is playing atm

[potent pivot]

builds are linked in the pins

[potent pivot]

me? not shit we have no gear lol

[vivid pond]

oh cool

didnt realize

[potent pivot]

no worries

[surreal barn]

I hit a 840k

Just now lol

[potent pivot]

pvp ilvl seems to be scaled up

but it's still lower than honor gear

[surreal barn]

614 dagger

[vivid pond]

can we get honor gear yet?

[potent pivot]

where they do that at

[potent pivot]

nop, and cap is 4k rn

[stoic spruce]

I do

But nothing competes with LSUI

[potent pivot]

so unless you have alts to farm 4k back to back you can only cap 4k rn

[spring bough]

i love posting all these herbs and they instantly get bought too lol

[stoic spruce]

Or the default BFA/SL ui

[surreal barn]

I had someone pvp craft me one

With 5 forged combatants heraldry tokens

[spring bough]

spending hundreds of thousands of gold for the new pvp items is wild to me

when they gonna get replace on monday

[surreal barn]

It was 5k

[spring bough]

i mean for people getting the whole sets lol

i saw the helm and weps were going for like 40k a piece

medallion was even more

[surreal barn]

Oh

Yeh

Dagger tho, worth.

[spring bough]

getting a new one tomorrow XD

this new mining node throws dynamite at you lol

[lime oar]

I died to it

Being greedy

Ngl

[rain crown]

You can send honor to alts right

And then send it back

So you have full cap

[fervent shell]

yes, but there's a 20% tax on honor transfers

[potent pivot]

20% tax every transfer so not really

gotta farm the cap on the alts themselves, then send it to main tomorrow

[vocal surge]

Peaking 1.35M DPS at lvl 80

wonder how much dps in pvp

[lusty lion]

it was a mistake making an alt. Now I feel like our hero talents are so lackluster compared to everyone else's

I mean I kinda knew, but now I know know

[lime oar]

DK hero talents look sick

[inland thorn]

Anything looks sick compared to whatever the fuck we have rn

@potent pivot Any reason the pvp build looks like m+

[grave basin]

rogue sisters

hows level 80

[inland thorn]

No difference with dragonflight given our hero trees suck

at least our base kit deals damage

[vocal surge]

Good

we're squishy thou vs open world content

[potent pivot]

what do you mean

it's an m+ build

[vocal surge]

It's not even just M+

Its just a good build in general

[grave basin]

how do you even do open world content

when you need to vanish

for subterfuge

[potent pivot]

you get subterfuge from stealth

[inland thorn]

Ngl bros I'm rly confused

Why is the m+ build pinned here

[potent pivot]

i was joking because pvp is becoming more and more like m+

[inland thorn]

Oh

Sorry for being dull then

[harsh kiln]

it's teh same @inland thorn, the more dps you can pump the more likely it is that you win

[potent pivot]

you're fine lol

that build will be good in shuffle/3s/blitz

i'll have the pvp faq back up soon with more builds closer to season start

[grave basin]

yea im talking about elites

when they dont die in your stealth window

any outlaw enjoyers

[potent pivot]

oh

i spec sub

[harsh kiln]

i'm outlaw

[potent pivot]

but nah sin's fine for elites without vanishing honestly

you just bleed from stealth, DM, shiv, KB etc

[grave basin]

isnt dm complete piss now

i mean KB

dm ahs always been piss

[potent pivot]

not in pve

they also both got buffed

[inland thorn]

Can you explain something to me please

[potent pivot]

DM got bug fixed

so it's dot does more dmg

[grave basin]

it was bugged?

[potent pivot]

yes

the actual deathmark dot wasn't affected by mastery

now it is

[potent pivot]

sure

[grave basin]

what

thats a hella of a bug

lol

[potent pivot]

the dot itself isn't super important

but yeah

it's still more dam

KB got some pvp tuning as well

[inland thorn]

As rogue when I played RBGs back in SL I always got put on base defense

[potent pivot]

yep

[inland thorn]

And my role was to one shot anyone that came or ghost and bac cap

[potent pivot]

right

[inland thorn]

But every build I see for bg is a m+ build and it looks like I'm supposed to be in the melee

Bleeding everyone

[potent pivot]

the build won't really make a difference

assa doesn't have any ST talents worth a damn

[inland thorn]

Not even kb?

[potent pivot]

the aoe build takes kb

should be anyway

[inland thorn]

I don't think it does

[potent pivot]

oh right that one's still got sbs in it

[grave basin]

@potent pivot how many 80s you got so far

im about to get dh and feral to 80

[potent pivot]

1

[grave basin]

gonna do rogue next

[potent pivot]

if you're going to be in more ST situations just take kb

you don't have to follow a build to the letter

it's legit just builds i put up to get people through until season starts

[inland thorn]

I figured so though I was wondering if I was missing something before switching stuff around

[potent pivot]

all you can q right now is regular bgs where you'll be in team fights

[potent pivot]

you'd just swap sbs and doomblade for KB+master assassin

[surreal barn]

Yo @potent pivot don’t sleep on that 30% extra shadow damage after blades ends

It’s actually kinda insane

[potent pivot]

who's sleeping on it

?

[surreal barn]

This guy until today

I was using 15 evisc damage instead

[potent pivot]

i think the 15 is better in most situations

[lucid citrus]

does anyone know how much honor we need to be fully honor gear once monday hits?

[potent pivot]

because you get it on every symbols

[surreal barn]

The 30% paired with 10% shadow amps up big

Esp since sepsis takes advantage of it

[potent pivot]

the symbols evis buff actually fits into your main go

whereas for the 30 buff kidney and symbols will be on cd no?

[surreal barn]

🤷‍♂️ the past three battles I have felt like I was a killing machine

Give it a try

[potent pivot]

i think it just depends on how you're trying to play it

[surreal barn]

Definitely

[potent pivot]

i already have lol

[surreal barn]

Ah

[potent pivot]

i like the 15 on evis because it slots in nicely in your main go

not saying lingering is bad or anything

just think it'd be weirder to play around

[inland thorn]

Do you ever press crimson tempest

[potent pivot]

with the 15 you just evis last in your dance window, with the most macabre stacks on top too

[potent pivot]

yes, a lot

[inland thorn]

even in 1v1

?

[potent pivot]

you also build combo points mostly with fan of knives

yes you can even CT on 1 target

[inland thorn]

Don't understand, is envenom that bad

[potent pivot]

yep

[inland thorn]

What about deathstalker do you just not use it

[potent pivot]

ye you use it

[inland thorn]

But then you have to envenom to proc the mark

[potent pivot]

you send a mac combo point env to consume the darkest night buff

[surreal barn]

I think what I’m feeling is how well it felt with shadowed finishers

[potent pivot]

you only have to env once

every so often

[surreal barn]

Every single eviscerate felt like it hurt em

[potent pivot]

you only have so many finishers that can even consume your Marks

rupture and CT and envenom

it's not like you sit there pressing nothing once you have all your dots on the target, if they're fully dot'd, then you'd press envenom anyway

but anytime possible you should be aiming to dot more than 1 target if you're not in a strictly 1v1 scenario

[inland thorn]

I see

[potent pivot]

dots do a very large majority of our dmg, our dots buff our dots

[inland thorn]

I understand when it comes to rupture and garrote but pressing CT in 1v1 feels a bit weird

[potent pivot]

(this is 10% in pvp)

[potent pivot]

so does pressing fok in arena

but that's what we're doing

[inland thorn]

Yeah actually

What's the deal with FoK

[potent pivot]

oh boy

[inland thorn]

do you do this in 1v1 as well

Besides clear the witness

[potent pivot]

no

2 or more

[dapper chasm]

It's too late - I already lost my UI wood

[outer sky]

The ultimate tier list

[potent pivot]

[spring bough]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/how-to-farm-for-the-beledars-spawn-mount-in-the-war-within-346104
Go get one before Monday 😂

[potent pivot]

CT does basically the same damage as envenom or slightly more

[inland thorn]

Lmao

[potent pivot]

and it buffs garrote and rupture by 2% from Lethal Dose

also the more DoT damage you have remaining on a target, the more likely you are to proc Sudden Demise

that's why i linked those talent tooltips specifically

CT just does it's damage over time instead of instantly

but it works with other important factors

[river pollen]

Does anyone know if doing the campaign that unlocks at renown level 4 at level 80 necessary for pvp gearing like crafted items or smth?

[potent pivot]

no idea

[river pollen]

I see ty, i guess ill do it in case

[potent pivot]

level 80 is likely required

idk about campaign

[potent pivot]

notice anything weird?

that's fok on ONE target

it costs less energy, and if it crits it awards more combo points

the only reason you don't press it on one target is because you only get 1 hit to roll a crit, which is a lot less likely than trying to roll 1 crit from 2-3 hits

[outer sky]

Well to be fair

Mut can crit too

And it gives baseline 2 CPs

[potent pivot]

ye but fok also just does more dmg on 2 no?

[outer sky]

So you'd need 2 FoK crits to get more CPs than 1 mut

If the Mut doesn't crit

Yeah on 2 targets it does more damage

[dapper chasm]

Wouldn't FoK also fuck with CC?

[potent pivot]

on 2 targets 1 crit = 3 cp

no im tripping aren't i

[outer sky]

Yep

[potent pivot]

was up all night

i'm thinking like it's shuriken storm or something

[dapper chasm]

Is Ass really so far ahead of the real rogue spec that you need to do this foolshiness?

[outer sky]

Yes that's an obvious exception. Press mut if you need CPs and can't press FoK without breaking CC. But in that situation you're choosing to do less damage in order to keep the CC active

[potent pivot]

assa's aoe is just overtuned

and it's ST is undertuned

bad combination

[outer sky]

Well we haven't tried it with the buffs yet

Which will likely go live tomorrow

[potent pivot]

are servers going down tmrw

[outer sky]

Don't think so

[potent pivot]

then probably not

[outer sky]

So tuesday?

[potent pivot]

at least yeah

[dapper chasm]

All joking aside, not that I joke - but every ass rogue I've bumped into in arena/BGs did not seem stronger

[potent pivot]

i just don't see the fok thing changing unless the revert mut's energy cost

[dapper chasm]

Like, I can't say because I only play sub, but it FEELS stronger than any rogue I've met

[potent pivot]

makes no sense for base mut to cost more than fok

[potent pivot]

a good sub rogue is better than a good assa/outlaw rn ye

assa just has insane cleave and sub does not

[dapper chasm]

But I don't feel we lack a cleave in arena anyway

Pressure seems kinda whack as a whole now too

[potent pivot]

i mean as sub you kinda don't need it

[dapper chasm]

Backstab hits for literally nothing

And then BAM

But now it's 20 CDs so it's BAM BAM BAM

[potent pivot]

but things like shuffle definitely lean towards cleave specs being stronger

[dapper chasm]

Maybe, but I see myself doing something like 80%-0% for most wins out of CC

Not really pressure and attrition

[potent pivot]

if you mean on live rn though tuning and scaling is all over the place

[dapper chasm]

Well, I can only speak for DF S4 and S1

[potent pivot]

like all pvp scaling is so out of whack atm

ahh

[dapper chasm]

But I only played like 10 arenas in S1

Before logging out for a short break

I will say though, this xpac feels a LOT like cata did before my last short break

Sub is nearly identical, but has a few extra buttons

[marble crag]

Id say sub needs more sustianed damage or at least a way to refresh cds faster and have them more often. If the fight drags on you find yourself not doing much just backstabs. Not in blitz but i find this in arenas a lot with so much healing.

[dapper chasm]

lol I would literally say the opposite, less focus on sustain and less CDs

[potent pivot]

i think sub is in a pretty good spot rn

the skill ceiling is just really high for it

[halcyon timber]

We are headed in a good balancing point. 1 extreme over the other isn’t good or healthy. We do have “some” damage out of dance to hold us over based on momentum and I’m pretty happy with it.

[dapper chasm]

We don't need damage outside of dance and we sustain it nearly 100% now

[halcyon timber]

Other classes gain more tools and that is good too

[dapper chasm]

I think the issue is we have TOO MUCH dance uptime - that must be a nightmare to balance around

It should be a big deal when dance is popped

It aint - at all

[halcyon timber]

Yeah agreed but they are set on getting dance back fast as others also sped up and gained more defensives etc

[outer sky]

I wouldn't mind a single dance on a 1.5m CD if it lasted 10s instead of 6 and gave a larger damage amp

[dapper chasm]

But it doesn't speed up the game to do it like that - it slows it way down

[halcyon timber]

Devs told us they aren’t doing that unless it became a 2min cd and on gcd

[potent pivot]

o.o

that's a long time to sit around twiddling your thumbs

[halcyon timber]

The big man said a while ago. I stayed up late in that conversation

[dapper chasm]

Longer and stronger CDs are what speeds the game up

The game is making more and more weaker CDs, and trust me, a 20 second duel in WotLK is now a 5 minute discussion

[outer sky]

It would still be affected by CDR

[halcyon timber]

He said no cdr on it

2min no cdr and probably not something they want to do

[outer sky]

I was proposing something different

1.5m with CDR would be fine

[halcyon timber]

Gotcha

[dapper chasm]

In this case, the enemy is either dead or you're R-Kelly fighting for you life for 1.5 minutes - it wont feel long

[potent pivot]

i think what Eridian is refrencing is the direction they said they are going with dps CDs in general

back when the dev would sometimes have discussions in the server

[dapper chasm]

I don't mind homogenising the game TOO much, giving everyone a wall etc - but I think CDs should be fewer, longer and stronger. I think this would result in shorter fights and faster time-to-kill

[halcyon timber]

Agreed and understood. Just dunno if they would ever do that. Consolidating things isn’t something they are deciding to do to. Ive been fighting that war for years since returning as well. They made their decision about it and im rolling with what ive got.

[dapper chasm]

Reaction time right now, hell even mechanics, mean less than ever

[halcyon timber]

Yep 100%

[dapper chasm]

Being sloppy with a wall instead of timing it perfectly etc

[potent pivot]

we need more enchants like this

[outer sky]

SL S1

A classic

[halcyon timber]

The kids lining healers and going to the forums about it won

Just the way it is now ig

[dapper chasm]

While I'm giving hot takes - Sub is a support spec and should be officially called that

[potent pivot]

SL?

[halcyon timber]

Don’t wish that on us ricky bobby

XD

[outer sky]

That's the enchant from SL S1 I believe

[potent pivot]

that's a bfa enchant

dreadflame

[outer sky]

Oh yeah it is

I have it so I assumed SL lol

[harsh kiln]

SL S1 was black i believe

[potent pivot]

i don't :l

[outer sky]

But I forgot I got 2100 in BFA s4 my first season doing pvp

[potent pivot]

i pray they give us bangers this expansion man.....

[dapper chasm]

DPS support isn't your daddy's healing support shite - DPS support are the conductors in a symphony of death

[potent pivot]

it's like the main thing we have to look forward to

for me at least

dgaf about mounts

[harsh kiln]

truer words haven't been spoken. Death to france

[spring bough]

Have we seen the new illusion yet?

[rigid fox]

Do you guys recommend the spec in the pin @ sin for bgs atm?

[dapper chasm]

Already have BiS wep enchants

[spring bough]

Also I saw wowhead say it’s elite this season for the illusion… that can’t be true??

[potent pivot]

no

[dapper chasm]

I miss tricks of the trade

[outer sky]

Link?

[potent pivot]

ye

can swap DB+SBS for KB+MA if you want

[spring bough]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/the-war-within/pvp/season-1-rewards-gear-mounts

[rigid fox]

kk ty

[spring bough]

Under elite it says “and weapon transmog”

I’m dumb that’s the weps not the illusion lmao

[marble crag]

I I mean you do get a very good DoT with replicating shadows and dark brew tbh

and i except with the hero talenta like deathstalker it will be even better

[halcyon timber]

Yep , its to soften mfs up for the bang. Reminds me of old serrated blades days

[potent pivot]

yeah they very rarely change the reward formula

[grave basin]

bro never trust wowhead

or anything pvp related

it's 1950

[potent pivot]

they need to give us an enchant that looks like a supermassive blackhole

fucking

crash everyone's computers

[grave basin]

for

[halcyon timber]

Prob will

[grave basin]

wowhead pvp articles made by pet battle mains

[dapper chasm]

Now that I dropped my hot take on sub - what are the hottest of takes here?

[halcyon timber]

Beef jerky prices are too high

[grave basin]

outlaw is the best spec

[dapper chasm]

I asked for a hot take, you handed me a flacid penis

[halcyon timber]

XD nasty

[grave basin]

sounds yummy

[marble crag]

Yeah but not for a spec that only does damage like sub

[dapper chasm]

[marble crag]

less cd time for frost mage or assa? sure but not for sub

[dapper chasm]

Even gay guys don't want that shit flacid

[dapper chasm]

The point isn't that we don't do damage, the point is it should only be in burst form

[potent pivot]

umm

you'd be surprised

[surreal barn]

I have rocked the dusk blade way longer than I should have

[grave basin]

yo misty looking thicc

[halcyon timber]

Freakin carl xD

[dapper chasm]

Tonight... You

[halcyon timber]

Hand banana noooo!!

[dapper chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/tonight-you-you-handbanana-aqua-teen-hunger-foce-aqua-teen-gif-22701581

I have another hot take - we should get rid of Symbols of Death/Feint/Secret Technique/Sepsis/Shuriken Storm

Those moves have no place that isn't already used

Oh and Shadow Blades should be baked into Dance

Halve the healthpools and do the same to other classes

And remove all charges

Wana do more sustain? Pop SnD like a fucking man

Wana survive? You get 1 vanish and 1 cloak

Wana cookie? Too bad - here bomb

[harsh kiln]

hot take - rupture shouldn't bbe in the sub toolkit.

[dapper chasm]

Soft agree - it shouldn't do significant damage

Used to keep physical dot on target

[halcyon timber]

Second wind says bonjour

[dapper chasm]

Remove

[halcyon timber]

Esp in tww for slayer

[dapper chasm]

Slay deez nuts

[halcyon timber]

XD

They aint gonna do that either

[dapper chasm]

If every class had to mass vote out 7 abilities each - the game would improve

Anyone complain? That's a bannu

[harsh kiln]

get rid of dps classes stupid ammount of self healing, get rid of most mobility, there i said it.

[dapper chasm]

Yes, but rogue should get old recup back as a testament to man's hubris

[halcyon timber]

They did bring self healing down a good bit too

[marble crag]

this

[dapper chasm]

"How did you survive those vicious strikes, rogue?"
"Whilst my opponent was attacking me - I was... recuperating"

https://tenor.com/view/csi-yeah-david-caruso-csi-miami-gif-21597107

Blind should be 6 seconds

I fucking said it

[spring bough]

Aoe blinds been a lot of fun in BG mosh pits

[spring bough]

Kul tiran passively heals 🔥

[halcyon timber]

Shrug it off racial yeah?

[spring bough]

Yup. Barely noticeable but better than nothing

[halcyon timber]

Nice to have tools at least

[lime oar]

Sounds boring

[dapper chasm]

Don't worry - I'm correct

[lime oar]

🤷🏻‍♂️

Different mindsets I suppose. You’re describing classic

[dapper chasm]

Yes... the dark times

When people played the game

[lime oar]

https://tenor.com/view/straight-face-the-office-stanley-umhmm-gif-5092910

[potent pivot]

a lotta ppl still play, it's just all through instances and lfg menus now

[dapper chasm]

I dunno man, I logged back in after 14 years and my guild is still around

They talk in their own language now

Dark eyes, lost souls, feeble husks of men

[safe pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/pain-suffering-death-star-wars-gif-25111888

[dapper chasm]

They boost people in raids for gold - I ask why, they tell me to get more game time

No irony is lost

[potent pivot]

i boosted raids back in SL

mostly to buy t3 and tcg stuff

[dapper chasm]

They used to be MEN, NoTrickz - a real guild of WINNERS and SERVER FIRSTERS

Now they float through life like trash in the wind

[potent pivot]

so they are grandfathers now

it's ok

[dapper chasm]

They also don't want to talk about UIs

And pretend PvP isn't relevant

[surreal barn]

I’m down.

🚮

[lime oar]

I personally can’t imagine maining pve in wow

[dapper chasm]

Not everyone gets laid, bro

Why is it that I am on a horde server yet I only see ally in the wild?

In capitals it's mostly horde, but questing is 100% ally

[spring bough]

Ally races for PvP >>>>> horde races

[lime oar]

I need the dopamine hit from watching peoples HP drop I guess

https://tenor.com/view/is-it-gif-20766212

[potent pivot]

opener or bursting a boss during Lust

[spring bough]

They need to add more back sheathe swords and axes to this game

Big ones too not no dinky little weps

[surreal barn]

I bought all the trading post ones

Couldn’t resist

[spring bough]

Same

But idk how I feel about them lol

Feels like a generic warrior quelserrar recolored 4 times

[surreal barn]

Love em

They also look good with that mists enchant

[potent pivot]

don't remind me

i didn't have time to get it

the blue one looks good with sinful enchant though

makes it glow black and green

[spring bough]

I want something like the size of thunder fury lol

it is going to be so hard to resist the urge to shit talk when people whisper me after i haymaker them off BG maps

mage comes down after start of twin peaks. sapped him. lined up. sent him off the map at the river lol

[twin burrow]

servers working for u rogues?

[jolly sierra]

just say "GG" to them

and had a fucker roasting my daggers just for being simplistic

[potent pivot]

NA is yeah

[spring bough]

soloing DHs as outlaw in a BG feels good

i dont think i could have done that in season 4 or 3 of DF lol

[twin burrow]

ty

[jolly sierra]

i like killing warriors tbh

i just open on them w burst and DM

then when they are about to react i vanish and watch them die

[lime oar]

They should just figure out how to let us toggle sheathing on the belt or on back

[spring bough]

so it seems like i can pick every node for herbs/mines regardless of my skill level

does skill level just give more of each pick the higher up u get?

[jolly sierra]

skill level does gives more herbs ye

and opens research skills

[spring bough]

yeah i saw i can turn the farmed items into 2 or 3 quality level ones

is that even worth it to sell on AH? or just sell everything raw

[jolly sierra]

people just doesnt understands simplistic is not shit, also are the matching daggers for my pvp set

[peak jolt]

SavedVariables has the data for my UI too, right?

[jolly sierra]

depends

herbs and ores can be sold very well

and very safely

but is always better to use them and sell the crafted stuff

but if u wanna the third world approach in economy

sure sell them

[spring bough]

idk which herb it is but everytime i put a 20 stack of them on the AH its auto 1k gold lol

[jolly sierra]

basically

[potent pivot]

wdym, you looking for your addon folder on your PC or?

[peak jolt]

Looking to save a backup of my addons and UI settings, so I don't ever have to repeat this stuff. Should saving a copy of Interface and WTF do the trick?

[potent pivot]

i'm honestly not sure exactly how the new Edit Mode works, but you can create a link like if you were going to give it to someone else and they could import it. similar to what we do with talent build links.

[peak jolt]

ohhh, so I could "share" it and just save the link locally

[potent pivot]

yeah

[outer sky]

Yall are living in the past

Pfft

Just install the "MySlot" addon

Problem solved

Copy and paste your whole UI with the press of a button

Even copies your keybindings

[peak jolt]

oh

maybe I'll do that 🤔

[outer sky]

0 reason not to

[shy nebula]

question: on my tooltip, cb spenders only show values for 6cp, does this mean that spending 7cp dont matter?

[outer sky]

Its a ui bug

[shy nebula]

ok thanks

[potent pivot]

i just have account wide keybinds

or do you mean for saving purposes

[outer sky]

When i get a new computer sometimes my binds get fucked idk

Or also

Let's say I make a 2nd rogue

And the bars aren't set up

Copy paste from the other rogue

10 seconds

[potent pivot]

yeah mine is the same by using Bartender4

i just open it and click the profile

[spring bough]

1 cast of killing spree on a DH just did over a million damage LOL

[potent pivot]

the only thing i have to do manually is my Interface settings, like nameplates etc

[outer sky]

MySlot is that but for your whole UI

[potent pivot]

word

[outer sky]

It's supposed to

[spring bough]

yeah wild and with CDR its up all the time lol

[outer sky]

I tested it on beta. Once everyone is fully geared with 6-7m HP and higher vers it feels pretty underwhelming unless you have the crit buff

Maybe ghostly strike before it. I just hate using ghostly for KS because if I get CCd during KS I just wasted both KS and ghostly

Tend to prefer saving it for crackshot

[spring bough]

just feels like a good down time finisher to use and fill for some damage when ur not in a crack window

[indigo hill]

Anyone had a problem with BTE not working on retail?

[spring bough]

yeah there is a bug apparently

[spring bough]

check the outlaw channel pins

[warped gate]

Bro.

The fuck is up with the crafted trinket?!

The shit just refuses to work sometimes.

I thought I was fucking up but I looked at in arena and it was grayed out.

[spring bough]

cloak ninja capped ruins from an evo who just kept casting on me LOL

that feels like such a cheat code i love it

[warped gate]

Oh shit.

[spring bough]

whats this crafted trinket do?

[warped gate]

I'm SO trying that.

[warped gate]

Ya know, THE PvP trinket.

The one that's supposed to break CC.

[spring bough]

ahhhhh

[warped gate]

For some reason it's just not working.

[spring bough]

maybe disabled till monday??

LOL

[warped gate]

Then goddamn, I want my fucking 60,000G back.

These crafted pieces are highway robbery but fuck it, I was getting cucked for all of prepatched, I wanted to feel big for a couple days.

[peak jolt]

So is Deathstalker or Trickster the way for subtlety?

[spring bough]

Do yall use a crimson vial evasion macro? Found you can spam it and they cast at the same time lol

[surreal barn]

Both are fun, I’m getting more kills with deathstalker so far

[peak jolt]

How do you use Thistle Tea? Always with Shadow dance, or?

[surreal barn]

If your dance is meant to kill yes

If you’re for some reason pressing it without your other dps cds avail no

[peak jolt]

xD

[surreal barn]

Honestly a better macro is adding it to sectec

[peak jolt]

Is there really any reason to use it outside of burst window? Doesn't seem so

Returning player btw, do you have a simple go-to rotation for opener?

Haven't really played since Shadowlands, things have changed quite a bit

[graceful ravine]

I think bgs are scaled to the same ilvl? Says 600 ilvl for all my gear

[surreal barn]

I don’t really have a rotation

[peak jolt]

Cheap shot - dance, symbols, thistle - evis - sepsis - st - cheap shot - evis - cheap shot - evis?

[surreal barn]

They changed shadow blades

Ah you put that

[peak jolt]

yeah, builds full cp

oh yeah, forgot to mention that was for shadow blades

[surreal barn]

I mean I guess haha, I’d say most important is not gapping your stuns

[peak jolt]

yeah, I have some trouble with that. My keyboards actuation point is kinda screwing with me

[surreal barn]

I usually have sepsis rolling before dance so the larger hit happens within the dance window and does more damage

I don’t know if that’s right or not

[peak jolt]

Are you supposed to use Slice on opener? Surely not? More while in-between goes?

So many questions. Like what is the optimal use of premed and first dance?

Holy hell. Just did a bg. How are there ppl with 10 mill hp already?

[spring bough]

changed up some stuff for trickster. went with elusiveness. and also back to flickerstrike and gonna see how keeping feint up close to 100% does lol

tricks build without BF aoe talents. did pretty good on the shrine map for flag fights lol

main gauche does numbers lol

[surreal barn]

Gonna be gone Tuesday- Monday 🥲

Glad I got early access

[proven kayak]

is tommorow the non early access release?

[peak jolt]

Anyone else can't seem to find where to complete the quest "Something Different" ?

(Win pvp brawl)

[peak jolt]

yes

[proven kayak]

thanks

[peak jolt]

Does anyone know what time it releases?

[harsh kiln]

in the middle of the night

[peak jolt]

so early tommorow?

[harsh kiln]

depending on timezone ofc

your bnet launcher should have a timer on it

[peak jolt]

oh, sec

[harsh kiln]

25hours and 19 minutes

[peak jolt]

oh baby

[harsh kiln]

maybe it's time to buy the xpac (for myself i should add)

[peak jolt]

wait. that kinda sucks. Was hoping to spend tommorow on farming some more honor 🤔

welp, guess I'm lvling my second char or something

and spending some time to fix the addons causing lua errors

[dapper chasm]

Now that I have honor capped, is there anything else before my wonderful holiday?

Or am I dtf now for tww?

[surreal barn]

F me 😳

Just made a crazy trickster build

1 mill goremaw followed by 1 mill ER

[spring bough]

Cap alts so u can send to and fully gear main

[dapper chasm]

Alts? I have a life, man

[spring bough]

Then you done lol

[outer sky]

A friend of mine says he got hit my a 4m sectec today by a sub rogue. Says he was level 80. Any thoughts?

[spring bough]

Sounds like a wild moment 😂

[unique bronze]

do you guys use the stealth bar? Im new to rogue and with subterfuge it just seems like a massive pain to keybind

like how the abilities swap

[outer sky]

the easiest way to do it is to put all of your stealth only abilities on a non-main bar, like a bar that doesnt change when youre stealth vs unstealthed. Then keep your stealth bar exactly the same as your unstealthed bar except swap out the main combo point builder

[spring bough]

The npcs on isle of conquest one shotting people 😂

[outer sky]

So like as assass and outlaw keep your stealth bar the same as your unstealthed bar but put ambush where mutilate/sinister strike is

and for sub, shadowstrike where backstab is

[unique bronze]

i see

ok that works

[jovial sundial]

Is that what the majority of peeps do? I feel like I’d waste too many keybinds, but I could be wrong

[river pollen]

Will that lil bit honor we have reset again tomorrow

[rain crown]

@jovial sundial that’s what most peeps do

Especially as sub with shadow dance and subterfuge

[outer sky]

yes

[jovial sundial]

Dam im weird then

[spring bough]

I don’t think so it just goes to 15k cap

[blissful osprey]

No that’s why it was capped at 4k

[spring bough]

It’s nice seeing the new PvP area starting to fill out

[river pollen]

Oh okk ty kings

I misread it somewhere i think

[lime oar]

is it possible to macro ambush/mutilate onto the same button with subterfuge

like a stance sorta

[wintry dew]

Why

[lime oar]

if/then type shi

cuz im lazy

[wintry dew]

Just have both abilities on the same bind, mutilate out of stealth, ambush in stealth

[jolly sierra]

this

[lime oar]

hold up

[topaz delta]

Which spec do you think will perform better, assa or sub for bgs?

[lime oar]

damn im trippin

[wintry dew]

You good bro?

[jolly sierra]

tf

[lime oar]

I didn’t have ambush on my stealth bar

Like I said

Tarted

[tribal jacinth]

what are the top 3 pvp talents?

for sin

[jolly sierra]

smoke bomb the most, other ones leaned towards hemotoxin/cloak talent and manuv/disarm

[surreal barn]

Is there a trick to making dance work from stealth

Without subterfuge

Or is it just broken

Trickster is insane lol

1.6milly one hit

[stoic spruce]

Full speed or nothing

Full speed or NOTHING

LUX AETERNAAAAAAAAA

Come on Wednesday

[topaz delta]

MY fave metallica song in a while

[stoic spruce]

I hope my next speeding ticket is with that song playing

[topaz delta]

haha

[stoic spruce]

Man 72 seasons speaks to me so much lyrically

The album

So good

[topaz delta]

hell ya!

[stoic spruce]

Hot take, Death Magnetic is their best album

[jolly sierra]

guys is dornagal valdrakken like in FPS?

[topaz delta]

someone remind me, as assa pvp, which poisons do we take (when not taking dragon-tempered blades)?

[waxen meteor]

For me it’s bomb disarm control is king, cloak/hemp as back up

[waxen meteor]

Wound and slow

[topaz delta]

crazy that assa doesn't take kingsbane in pvp?

[waxen meteor]

i am still taking it

but i think when offcially launched we will see more

curren gear is werido

[surreal barn]

1.9mill ER

Latest bg lol

[jolly sierra]

for lvl 80?

emmmmmmmmm

no, its very shitty scale wise

according to comments from end beta

[worthy crag]

So apprently the single target pve build for subtlety takes off thistle tea in favor of cold blood to use with trickster

which made me curious to test out the dmg difference between thistle tea + DSM build vs cold blood coup de grace

to reach the conclusion that trickster feels pretty shit in pvp

[waxen meteor]

don't we get tea and cold blood at same time?

[worthy crag]

not unless you want 2 vanishes

[waxen meteor]

sure?

[worthy crag]

I mean

[waxen meteor]

you can have all 3

[worthy crag]

not unless you are fine losing 2 vanish talent

well

either that or deeper stratagem

I dont think you can give that up

Deeper strat + double vanish are not up for compromise

You can only invest 11 points into the final tier

[waxen meteor]

yeah i mean you will lose the deeper stratagem

i guess i will wait to see when season starts if cb still worths it

[worthy crag]

CB will prob never be worth it if you are DSM

I'd consider it for trickster

[waxen meteor]

i haven't run trickster yet

[worthy crag]

but right now Im having a hard time finding a reason to go trickster over dsm in pvp

[waxen meteor]

let me swap and read it lol

[worthy crag]

it feels really awkward

[waxen meteor]

deathstalker seems quite good

[worthy crag]

Esp because the unseen blade proc is entirely % based so ur just kinda staring at your rng

whereas DSM, if you have blades up for easy combo point generation, you can proc 2 darkest nights back to back relatively quickly

I think trickster technically has a higher ceiling if you line up everything correctly (which is why it's meta in single target raid) but

not worth it imo, too much headache

[spring bough]

there is a cave in hallowfall that feels like it has infinite herb / mining node respawns

its the cyclone in the water to the right of Mereldar

[outer sky]

Why is the season so pushed out

I dont wanna do random BGs and skirms for another 2 weeks

[inner ivy]

it's a pink sock rollout

[outer sky]

I'm 30

Idk what that means

[surreal barn]

🤣

[spring bough]

A few of us gonna need an explanation on that one lol

[spring bough]

KIR in arena is pretty good lol

[lime oar]

I felt this

[halcyon timber]

Slang for making a pp pretty much

Not going into further details as it can get outta hand quick

[terse bolt]

sub buffed already?

[halcyon timber]

Monday is when they roll out stuff for those changes (all the class stuff related stuff allegedly)

[terse bolt]

wait i was fishing

here comes the hope!

[halcyon timber]

The list of hotfixes for all the classes mentioned

[surreal barn]

Wait, so sub is getting even stronger?

[halcyon timber]

Wouldn’t say stronger as no one has gear , scaling between targets is messed up, its preseason nonsense as per usual.

Beta testing in full gear etc all 3 rogues did well as trickz put out a few times

[surreal barn]

Cool.

[jolly sierra]

guys is dornagal as laggy as valdrakken?

[halcyon timber]

Hit or miss at times yes

[surreal barn]

Comparable

[jolly sierra]

god dammit

[surreal barn]

no laggy in pvp area

[halcyon timber]

Try reducing render distance and turning off ray tracing as a test

Change particle settings to you only or dynamic as well

[jolly sierra]

lemme see

[halcyon timber]

Ground clutter to low and reduce water / shadows / ambient occlusion fx

See if that helps any as a test

[jolly sierra]

right

i had max distance in world

at 10

shadows and liquids are at min

should be ok now tho

[halcyon timber]

Fly out and fly back in and look for other anomalies as you reenter

[jolly sierra]

lets see

[halcyon timber]

Disable triple buffering too as a test and take off v sync

Set render to gpu if you haven’t as well

[jolly sierra]

disabled the buffering and feels shitty

[halcyon timber]

Hardware no likey

[spring bough]

This guy laughed at me for having TF on a rogue because “it’s as long as your body”…. So I reported him for fat shaming kul tirans 😂

[jolly sierra]

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[halcyon timber]

Alrighty reenable and log out and log back in

[jolly sierra]

go in so u troll him a little

on it

[halcyon timber]

You set a target fps range too?

May help reduce wear on your rig

[jolly sierra]

its going fine i think

for now, thank you

[halcyon timber]

Right on , no sweat

[jolly sierra]

imo the biggest issues were the max distance and particle density

[halcyon timber]

Yeah lots of technical stuff they have going on which is cool

As long as you keep those lower , you’ll be cool

[wintry dew]

Yo

[jolly sierra]

yo royal

[twin burrow]

feels good

[wintry dew]

You guys probably talked about this already but

https://x.com/Mhortai/status/1827735527405084779?s=19

Mhortai (@Mhortai) on X

Hello @WarcraftDevs we may have a problem LOL #worldofwarcraft #WarWithin

Twitter · Aug 25, 2024, 3:51 PM

[jolly sierra]

huh

HAHAHHAHA

[halcyon timber]

Old legendaries are nuts atm yeah

[jolly sierra]

unzips the lego daggers

[wintry dew]

It is because all gear is getting scaled inside bgs right?

[jolly sierra]

think so

[halcyon timber]

Its time to just legacy inactivate all that to avoid this crud

[jolly sierra]

just q a skirmish

[wintry dew]

I'm still waiting for the launch man, I really look forward

[halcyon timber]

Same w comp stomp currently. Scaling is in overdrive and people are getting silly about it

[jolly sierra]

same, so i can turn into sonic

[twin burrow]

so are we going to have a cancel aura for flawless form to not break cc

[halcyon timber]

Launch will be sick

[wintry dew]

Speed gear right?

[jolly sierra]

ye

upgradeable speed gear

[wintry dew]

Where's the second vanish?

[twin burrow]

dont wanna use it

[halcyon timber]

Someone else will so nope. Minding distance is key with ff.

[twin burrow]

might even drop subterfuge if coup de grace is worth cold blood

[wintry dew]

Your shooting yourself in the foot

Not taking 2nd vanish

[twin burrow]

why

i can just step out

[jolly sierra]

u need it to run away

[wintry dew]

Because this is the pvp channel

[twin burrow]

assa had 1 van and i felt great

[jolly sierra]

no way

wtf

[twin burrow]

yeah as rogue mage too

lols

[halcyon timber]

Bc some shaman will lightning bolt you in the weiner

[twin burrow]

i dont play wif randoms :3

guess im lucky hah

[jolly sierra]

vanish is the strongest defensive we have

both defensive and offensive

[halcyon timber]

Proceed, do as you want in the end man . Don’t need anyone’s approval.

[twin burrow]

2 globals on dummy with perf veins stacked, and a lucky CDG crit.. so it was just an ER into a CDG with blades. 2 globies

[jolly sierra]

also we had shadow dance removed, even more reasons to pick double vanish as assa

[wintry dew]

I mean sure if you're playing with a definitive comp, you do you champ

[twin burrow]

we have double dance still pander

[wintry dew]

?

[wintry dew]

Oh right yeah

Sub

[halcyon timber]

Panda is an assassin man

[twin burrow]

i hope this build has some play

[halcyon timber]

Thick and thin

[twin burrow]

i want to not get parried by monks and warrs

f dat

[halcyon timber]

Make it work if you’re passionate about it

[jolly sierra]

im an assassin

XD

[twin burrow]

well its sub burst so its gonna not last

but it will be fun for a week

[toxic yarrow]

i have warglavies leggos i just have no build for it lol

[jolly sierra]

tried into a skirmish and doesnt scales at 70

[twin burrow]

that sap range on trickster makes me go acrobatics whooooooo?

[halcyon timber]

Yeah i dig it and the dnd references

Trickster and fatebound are very dnd

[toxic yarrow]

does thunderfury scale?

[twin burrow]

yeah i like the hero talent theme

[halcyon timber]

Metzen said we are going back to dnd focused wow when the story and game were sick

[twin burrow]

i saw that interview but didnt watch it

i forgot is metzen back back?

[halcyon timber]

Was a solid interview

Watched it 2x

[twin burrow]

daym

[halcyon timber]

Yes sir, him and a lot of other old school writers / devs

[wintry dew]

I bought some old books with a bunch of DND stuff.
As In, DND took inspiration from this guy to create even more stuff in the dnd world

[halcyon timber]

They are focused on using all the talent they have

[jolly sierra]

so deathstalkers are chaotic evil?

[halcyon timber]

I love critical role, i listen to them a lot

[wintry dew]

No they are bugged

Ahahahah

[twin burrow]

quick note on CDG (coup), if you talent DFA it will do the DFA animation and consume the CDG buff

[halcyon timber]

Deathstalker is from belmonte and the gang but they are dnd too

[jolly sierra]

xddddddddd

XDDDDDDDDD

[halcyon timber]

Everything in wow is dnd inspired

[twin burrow]

im thinking a CB DFA/CDG > rotten ER is going to be like shadowlands season 1 kyrian..

[halcyon timber]

Table top games was the big start for mmos and i love the rpg elements this expansion has

[wintry dew]

Does the name R.A. Salvatore mean anything to anyone?

[halcyon timber]

I nerded out and recorded all the moments so far

[twin burrow]

and dnd is inspired by lotr if im correct?

[halcyon timber]

Ive seen his cover art on books and vaguely remember stuff

[twin burrow]

im officially all in trickster sub. may the devs let us have our 1-2 weeks of glory

[halcyon timber]

Haven’t had much time for personal reading lately though

[wintry dew]

That's a Drow btw

[jolly sierra]

still have my shadow monk xmog here tho

lets see a pic

[halcyon timber]

Drow are where NE pretty much came from

[wintry dew]

Only from looks because these fuckers are really fucked up

[wanton breach]

Gotta love Drow

[halcyon timber]

Just like in matt mercer’s exandria

[wintry dew]

Like

REALLY FUCKED UP

[wintry dew]

Wtf you doing awake

Back to sleep

[wintry dew]

I actually don't know how matt portraits them but in this book, these guys are poor evil, they have houses (like in family houses) and if a family wants to destroy another, they can. All they need to do is not leave any trace behind

If they succeed, no one will say shit

If they leave leads behind, like leaving someone from the family alive

[halcyon timber]

Big militaries and mixed good and bad types. Really great stories in ssn2 CE with a few characters

[wintry dew]

This house will be pretty much BRRRR OUT OF EXISTENCE

[halcyon timber]

Assassins / scholars / high civilization and such. Same goes for the nightborn as well

[wintry dew]

Yes

That's all in the book