pvp

[halcyon timber]

Looks sick . Prob listed in their known issues page in game too - transmogs disappearing

[wanton breach]

have you checked your entire collection? sometimes items shuffle around due to whatever reason

[potent pivot]

yeah i checked the main 1h sword tab and the artifact tab

[wintry dew]

Sometimes log in log out it's enough

[potent pivot]

maybe i wasn't supposed to have it and they fixed a bug causing me to have it

because i don't even remember getting it, it was just there one day out of nowhere

[wanton breach]

there used to be plenty of bugs with artifact appearances

[potent pivot]

yeah i remember there was a way to put some illusions on them before you were supposed to be able to, iirc

relog didn't fix, who knows

[halcyon timber]

Revenge of the Rogues begins in 1 more day

[spring bough]

Is it launch day yet 💀

[warped gate]

23.5hrs left.

[hidden moth]

anyone got a assa rbg build?

[potent pivot]

it's the same build for every bracket pretty much

[hidden moth]

i got one but it doesnt have subterfuge idk if its worth taking in rbg?

[potent pivot]

you 100% want subterfuge at all times

[hidden moth]

do u mind sharing urs?

[potent pivot]

check the pins

[hidden moth]

ahh tyty

[potent pivot]

np

[jolly sierra]

subterfuge = carnage garrote mass silence spam

[hidden moth]

why is stealth breaking all of a sudden? is it a bug?

like everytime i die in a bg and i have dots on some1 and revive my stealth breaks after reviving

[jolly sierra]

that is a bug

maybe sanguine blades bugged again

[indigo hill]

Bugs out on all specs. Sometimes it tosses me out of stealth at random.

[potent pivot]

@blazing hull whats up man

[blazing hull]

hey i was just looking for someone to help set up bars and stuff. like to optimize the play style and also. i dont know which abilities go on stealth bar and stuff lol

[potent pivot]

well for the most part you just set up stealth bar the same as your regular bar

[blazing hull]

do u have a screen shot i can look at or if you have a sec im streaming in general 1

[potent pivot]

it's not really recommend to have different spells on the same binds

yeah 1 sec ill ss mine as an example

nonstealth:

stealth:

[blazing hull]

is your AE shadowmeld?

[potent pivot]

the only abilities you really need that require stealth to use are Sap and Cheapshot

yes my alt-e is meld

[stoic spruce]

It's really anti-sub

Because if you listen to what they're saying, they're just explaining sub

[blazing hull]

what poisions are you using?

[potent pivot]

wound+crippling

[blazing hull]

ty ty

[dapper chasm]

0 creativity, these look like they were just made for speed and ease of use

Where's the ctrl+TAB?

The alt+mousewheel up

You're treating your fingers like princesses, you gotta give them a SLIGHT challenge, cmon

Here's some binds with CHEST HAIR

Unironic ctrl+F2

[potent pivot]

why you gotta make it weird

[dapper chasm]

I play on HARD MODE

But you do you, honey-boo

[wintry dew]

I bet they were xD

[dapper chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-pathetic-principal-skinner-gif-13486077408184960752

When I am playing arena, my hands look like one of those weeb ninjas

https://tenor.com/view/uchiha-jutsu-hand-signs-naruto-itachi-gif-8694391

[potent pivot]

i have 22 binds you don't see in the picture

happy?

[dapper chasm]

My sweet summer child

I was gonna say I have more bars too, but the rest are professions and shit

But either way, I win

Oh -oh, I have all bars hidden and clickthrough

[surreal barn]

Class bar 3

[dapper chasm]

That's what happens when you play since before addons

[surreal barn]

Are you insane

Make it class bar 1

[dapper chasm]

No, it was the original bind for it, and I never felt the need to change it

[surreal barn]

Fix it

I thought you were a professional

[dapper chasm]

That was the original stance bars before it all got swapped

[surreal barn]

I love a good excuse

[dapper chasm]

I only spit raw fax

Plus it's faster than using stance bars by like... 2-3 frames

[surreal barn]

Spit a fix instead

[dapper chasm]

The best method for binds for low latency is to just use macros with stance modifiers

At least, it was, not sure if they removed the slight delay with stance bars swapping

Also, I spent ages fixing GladiusEx and the twat addon author updated it like 2 hours after I fixed it

So I am mad and want to lash out

[surreal barn]

I can’t stand looking at it

[dapper chasm]

Look at deez 0.2 second faster vanish cheap shots

Oh, and I finished squashing all this shit into one corner - border colour based on rest/afk/pvp etc

Everything but playing the game

[potent pivot]

i swear most of these alts i've been playing have way less binds

[dapper chasm]

Most classes don't have so many instants

[potent pivot]

frost DK has a lot of binds

[surreal barn]

I know the Paladin does

[potent pivot]

but a lot are CDs

[surreal barn]

Well, the ret

[potent pivot]

ret doesn't look like it has that many

it has a lot more support though

[dapper chasm]

Oh, I have other BIG addon news for you guys - no doubt you've been waiting

[potent pivot]

_>

[dapper chasm]

Don't be that guy

Now show interest please

[surreal barn]

You’ve finally moved over to skill capped 😂

[dapper chasm]

I wish I knew what that was

[surreal barn]

Addon ui preset

[potent pivot]

did you take over Gladius, Diminish, and all the other pvp addons to give them regular updates?

[surreal barn]

It is definitely in your style

[dapper chasm]

No, I finally figured out what opacity to use for my CDs when out of combat - the secret all along was 100% for the stacks, but 72% for the icon

I could stare at them for hours

Seperating the stacks was a stroke of genius, if I say so myself

[potent pivot]

all those weakauras are rotting your brain brother

[dapper chasm]

Pff, there's only like

5

ish

[potent pivot]

take a seat, this is an intervention

we need to get you some halp

[surreal barn]

Better off having the main 6 under your portrait and others invisible unless on cd

[dapper chasm]

I got some on "not loaded" now

[surreal barn]

But we all have our crutches

[potent pivot]

but nah it looks nice man

[dapper chasm]

I have killed

[potent pivot]

i need to finish deleting all my WAs

[dapper chasm]

Each folder has like 200 elements inside

[potent pivot]

to get ready for tww

[dapper chasm]

Oh, lord, no

I am quiting on launch

I am NOT doing this shite again, took like 20 hours total

Nudging fucking pixels over one by one

Hand made animations

Fucking SOUND EFFECTS

[surreal barn]

Which one sounds like fucking

I’m gonna go with Adrenaline Rush

[dapper chasm]

I will ignore that bad joke

I don't play combat, I have something that stops me

Braincells

[surreal barn]

i think you should accommodate the new skills

[dapper chasm]

Oh, and opacity changes back to 100% if not in combat but CD is up - then it goes black and white to not take up too much visual space

[surreal barn]

otherwise everything youve done is for nothing

[dapper chasm]

BEHOLD - my conditions

https://tenor.com/view/skurge-asgardian-marvel-thor-ragnarok-gif-14392741

[potent pivot]

won't a lot of them break on launch?

or did you do them on beta

[dapper chasm]

Shockingly no, WAs are coded by some serious nerds

As long as the addon is maintained, the elements I create carry over

With few exceptions

Oh, and I only scored 55 on the RAADS-R, neurodivergence doesn't show strongly till 67+

[potent pivot]

but a lot of the data tends to change with expansions no?

[dapper chasm]

That's the WA team's problem

[potent pivot]

like just as an example if a CD time changes

you don't have to change anything?

[dapper chasm]

No, but those are due to steps I took

You can use things like %p or %c to pull those figures directly from the wow API

[potent pivot]

ic

[dapper chasm]

So if it changes, it also updates automatically

That also works around Blizzard's loose ideas of what a "second" is

[potent pivot]

i've only ever made really simple stuff

[dapper chasm]

As they change the length of seconds instead of just changing the number

I shit you not

[dapper chasm]

I don't consider myself to be that advanced, I do a lot of my addon building in WA or editing other people's addons

You don't need to be a master coder to pop a LUA file open and figure out what IF XYZ then ABC does

Also, whilst working on my bars - I saw that Rupture is now an AoE?!

And that the AoE can proc crippling? What are they smoking

[potent pivot]

huh

it's only aoe from stealth or subterfuge

[dapper chasm]

Nope

This + 2set means a single Rupture can now be the highest damage finisher in Rogue history

It's literally a single button after the opener for nearly all of our pressure

[hollow carbon]

Isn’t that a sub talent?

[stoic spruce]

It's him

[dapper chasm]

Yeah, I'm skilled

[hollow carbon]

As Assa it applies to 2 nearby from stealth, that’s what NoTrickz prolly meant

[dapper chasm]

Ah, no, I play the spec your girl tells you not to worry about

[lime oar]

unmolested UI >>>

minimal addons is the way

[potent pivot]

oh i thought you meant indiscriminate carnage on assa. sub has had that for a while now

[halcyon timber]

Bfa at first to be exact

[potent pivot]

i just did 60->70 on my hunter for the hell of it... leveling is way too easy right now

my god

[halcyon timber]

Hek kek super speed on thursday too

[potent pivot]

you mean for 70->80?

i don't even want to think about it man

i've leveled way too much this past week

[dapper chasm]

I play like a married father of 2 these days - long breaks

All new to me

[potent pivot]

i hear ya

[dapper chasm]

Can we ban this guy?

He also DM'd me saying scandalous things about the mods here and how they wouldn't dare ban him and they smell

[potent pivot]

yep

sub rupture only cleaves onto 1 extra target

[lime oar]

default blizz UI is goated

[dapper chasm]

I bet you buy your baseball bat at a store instead of carving your own one like a real fucking man

[potent pivot]

thats why when i heard aoe i thought assa

[potent pivot]

for some things i agree, for others... hell nah

[lime oar]

[dapper chasm]

My UI is my weapon, I use the excuse perverts use to play female characters "If I gotta stare all day, I want it looking good"

[potent pivot]

for some reason my objective window won't stay hidden

no matter what addon i try to use to hide it

[dapper chasm]

Objective?

[lime oar]

quests

drop down

[potent pivot]

the quest list yeah

[dapper chasm]

Oh, I use SorhaQuestLog and it handles hiding and stuff really well

But it's complicated to set up

If you just want to move and hide elements, MoveAny got a fork on github by a guy called D4KiR

Think it's on curse actually

It's kind of like the blizzard editor on crack, plus it allows all windows to be draggable

[lime oar]

all i have is betterblizzframes and betterblizzplates lol

[dapper chasm]

Keep at it, bro

You'll have a real UI one day

[potent pivot]

i use moveany

[dapper chasm]

Then hide the element on there

Or move to a proper suite like Sohra

Only gotta set it up once, then you get a very neat look (linked above somewhere)

[potent pivot]

what was linked

[dapper chasm]

How neat a MAN's quest log looks

[outer sky]

I should be excited for the xpac release tomorrow but honestly it's just going to be so depressing leveling my character knowing the end goal is so lackluster

I even plan to close my store on Friday so I can play WoW all day

[potent pivot]

you've been playing too much beta brother

[outer sky]

but i honestly may not

[outer sky]

watcha mean

[dapper chasm]

There's an end goal to this fucking game?!

[potent pivot]

like you're burning yourself out on a brand new release before it's been released

[outer sky]

yeah maybe so

[potent pivot]

there's definitely still tuning to come before season starts

there always is

pvp week, mythic week, and beyond

[dapper chasm]

Is this new xpac PvP friendly?

[potent pivot]

i think so yeah

[outer sky]

only if you're a DK or Mage

[potent pivot]

pvp vault doesn't exist anymore

[dapper chasm]

Not that I thought DF was bad for PvP

[potent pivot]

they raised conquest earned from games and raised the cap too

[dapper chasm]

I don't gaf about class balance tbh

[potent pivot]

we also get weapons basically for free i think

it should be really good QoL for pvpers from the sound of it

[dapper chasm]

My main gripe is mostly how little people care about arena now-a-days

[lyric onyx]

stealth bug is so annoying 😭

[dapper chasm]

Oh, yeah, I noticed that whenever I entered a world quest area, my stealth would drop

[potent pivot]

people still care about it, but the casual audience prefers solo q content

what can ya do

[dapper chasm]

Solo q

I play CoD like once every 2 months - pop it on, select whatever SMG is new and off I go

When I throw WoW on every 2 months I gotta spend 1 hour just studying my own moves

[potent pivot]

i'm debating leveling a monk

[dapper chasm]

So for me, PvP friendly things would include a major prune of secondary abilities

[lyric onyx]

monks fun

[potent pivot]

prolly a bad idea tbh

i'll never play that shit

[dapper chasm]

Oh, and removing the 3 rows of buffs and debuffs on unit frames

[potent pivot]

lmao

yeah i think a lot of people feel the same way

oh there's an addon you can use to customize the buffs/debuffs

it actually looks like one you'd be into Zanaken

[dapper chasm]

I get that the PvE'r might like the 50 procs on the dragon, but as a real man I play PvP and want less visual clutter

[dapper chasm]

I already use it

And 3 others

[potent pivot]

Raven Buff Bar

[potent pivot]

i shoulda known

[dapper chasm]

I even use bleed-over bars to enhance the abilities I care about

[potent pivot]

can you really make it so only specific things show up?

or does it just highlight certain shit

[dapper chasm]

Even better, make a list of those things and have them on top but bigger and glowing and shit

[potent pivot]

but can you hide other ones?

[dapper chasm]

That's done using a blacklist bar attached to a whitelist bar

Yes, you can, but I don't like hiding stuff, just enhancing what I need

[potent pivot]

well certain things are just useless to see

at least in an arena

especially on your target's and focus' frames

[dapper chasm]

No, you don't understand - it's LUCKY

[potent pivot]

like there's only a few buffs i want to see under my target frame when i'm targeting a mage for example

combust, alter time, a few others etc

[dapper chasm]

Then you might prefer my method

[potent pivot]

if i could get rid of the clutter like their random procs that are meaningless to me i'd be quite happy

[dapper chasm]

I just have these as big boys

The rest is just standard sized

That's not a great list though as I literally logged in for the first time in 10 years then speedread every ability in the game

Probably missed something that doesn't sound great, but actually is (like MS stacks etc)

[outer sky]

@potent pivot is this was you had in mind for a ST focused build?

[halcyon timber]

Exactly this

[halcyon timber]

That looks filthy man . You might be on to something

[dapper chasm]

Wait, there's subclasses now? WHY?

[outer sky]

i'd like to get amp poison but you have to give up way too much and even if you get it you cant get to DTB so you have to rely strictly on hemo for your MS

[halcyon timber]

Crud man yeah i see your point on that

[outer sky]

I feel like of all the classes I've played, rogue has some of the most dead talents on its tree

[potent pivot]

pretty much, but i'd probably stay Deeper Strat unless kb/env get some juice idk

[outer sky]

If you don't take cold blood then you def don't take KB

We have such low crit

And when it doesn't crit it hits for like 350k

Complete waste

[halcyon timber]

Would the lethal injection talent == roughly to 7 cb pts during that window though?

[potent pivot]

rapid injection?

[outer sky]

So I can drop KB and doomblade to pick up amp poison

[halcyon timber]

Yeh or whatever its called

Or be very close?

[outer sky]

But if I do that i can't play wound poison

Crimson tempest does so much freaking damage though

[potent pivot]

that gives +10% on envenoms you cast while envenom buff is up

[halcyon timber]

Yes sir

[potent pivot]

doomblade is pretty bad on it's own

the only thing you're really getting is the Lethal Dose from it, but are you even pressing Mutilate enough to have the bleed up?

[outer sky]

I mean look at that. over 13% of my dam

[outer sky]

if playing VV i would be. which would alsp buff doomblade

[spring bough]

We are in this channel too much. Went to look at something this morning and the top bar “there are 300+ messages after…”

[halcyon timber]

XD wb

Yeah i took a nap and saw the same. Gotta do an exam here shortly then study for another tomorrow

[potent pivot]

i still feel like doomblade would do piss damage idk

anything is worth a try though

[outer sky]

It's just SO energy inefficient compared to FoK spam

[potent pivot]

what if you drop internal bleeding and doomblade instead

and keep CT

[outer sky]

I feel like dropping IB is kinda troll

[potent pivot]

it isn't

[outer sky]

Especially for a ST oriented build

[potent pivot]

IB is pretty bad too

[outer sky]

You get an extra bleed + lethal dose stack every kidney

[potent pivot]

yeah so 10 seconds every minute

compared to having CT's dmg

[outer sky]

12

[potent pivot]

you know what i mean

IB is also bugged so you're not getting proper IB damage from ruptures

[outer sky]

But like at that point we're losing IB, losing wound poison, losing spike

Just to get VV and amp poison

[outer sky]

Is it doing too much damage or too little damage currently?

[potent pivot]

not getting proper damage = less

"Internal Bleeding does damage like a 1 combo point rupture when you cast a 7 point rupture"

i think it's specific to 7 point ruptures

prolly ER points too but that doesn't matter as much to us atm

have you tried ER at all

[outer sky]

Yeah a lot

It's laughably terrible

It hits for like 250k

Even with reverb

Everything is just so fucking undertuned

[potent pivot]

yeah i'd be more focused on the 7cp envenoms or something

but since they don't interact with darkest night either of course it's a wash

[potent pivot]

whaazz is about to play assa rn

if you wanna check it out

[spring bough]

Being alliance on Tichondrius with war mode on is glorious lol

[potent pivot]

they just annihilated DK/DH

affli was getting PI so that parts a lil inflated

https://clips.twitch.tv/EagerTrappedBananaBrainSlug-eIQywAndsA5KEBKf

yeah idk man it's not even a competition

[spring bough]

We are on the chopping block next 😂

[potent pivot]

he's playing Fatebound too

[steel scarab]

Lol

[potent pivot]

melting them

[steel scarab]

90% of damage: garrote

[potent pivot]

they can't live the pressure

[potent pivot]

25% isn't that much

[lucid citrus]

What was his talents?

[steel scarab]

It's almost more than the next two abilities combined!

[potent pivot]

the same shit i have linked in the pins i'm pretty sure

[steel scarab]

I also think Sanguine Blades damage being so high feels awful. Just another "illusion of choice," completely unskippable talent in all content

It'd be interesting if Sanguine Blades was a choice node where the other option somehow increased damage for using abilities every GCD

[outer sky]

i want saguine blades to be completely removed. I hate the afk playstyle it encourages. If I'm pooling energy, i want it to be so I can press buttons later, not so a passive talent can keep on proccing

[wintry dew]

We're getting nerfed for sure, unless we're in a good spot and everyone else is lacking dmg

[outer sky]

huh?

we suck lol

[potent pivot]

agree

[steel scarab]

Completely agree, SB is trash. Imagine playing a spec that rewards you for pushing FEWER buttons

[potent pivot]

i wish you would've seen what i just saw

[outer sky]

?

enlighten me Notrickz

[spring bough]

Look at those details rogue was doing 1 milly dps 😂

[potent pivot]

scroll uppp

[outer sky]

yeah there was a UDK on the other team ofc he was. I do that all day long when there's a BM, UDK, or demo lock

40% of it is pet damage

who cares

[potent pivot]

every match was over in a minute

[outer sky]

has he shown talents?

[potent pivot]

the DPS on the meter itself is meaningless

they legit threw the other team in the dumpster and spat on them

that bad

maybe thats because affli is also really good

but he seemed like he definitely had pressure idk

[potent pivot]

same build in the pins+fatebound

[outer sky]

fatebound huh

[potent pivot]

no sbs dmg on his details

so i assume it's just MA+KB

[outer sky]

if he's playing KB without CB he's trolling. Idc if he's a blizzcon champ

there's no way thats good

[potent pivot]

i don't think he's even bothered to fuck with talents man

he randomly swapped assa for 3 matches then back to sub

[wintry dew]

XD

M+ assa right now is extremely strong to the point is really likely to be nerfed

[potent pivot]

yeah i mean everyone's expecting it to be nerfed

as long as they buff the ST to compensate then i'm fine with that

this match didn't last long enough to get any fatebound procs

1 KB did 730k

but that's with the dot etc

[steel scarab]

Does this mean our "hero tree" just kind of does nothing sometimes?

[potent pivot]

...no

if your arena matches are less than a minute long then there's a chance you don't proc

[steel scarab]

10 million damage from Garrote and Fatebound did 1/30 of that

[potent pivot]

most arena matches won't be that short

[steel scarab]

What are health pools?

[potent pivot]

and that's not the only hero talent tree, there's 2 per spec

7-8m

[potent pivot]

yeah in like 45 seconds man

like it's such a tiny sample size and short match

[steel scarab]

That's crazy to me though. He did 4x a player's HP in damage and the Hero tree did the equivalent of a Doomblade DOT lol

[wintry dew]

Damn

That's crazy

[potent pivot]

all that bleed damage is spread between 3 people as well

plus pets

if a match is that short, you're not doing enough to roll procs

it's such a non issue idk

[wintry dew]

Plus we need to understand how the hero tree even works and where is the damage is coming from

[potent pivot]

yeah fatebound buffs ability damage

not just procs

so part of it's damage isn't going to even been seen on details

[steel scarab]

I think the issue isn't the viability of the hero tree, so much it is that the game is based around "everybody has to wait a long time to start ramping up and doing damage" which is just sort of Blizzard's way of artificially making arena matches last longer, which, in turn, just sort of makes the first minute or so in arena matches feel comparatively unimpactful

[potent pivot]

[steel scarab]

I mean, just think about it for a moment. In retail, healers can blast a friendly target with a heal that is like, 2x the target's HP bar, through a mortal strike debuff

No matter what, if the healer is not CC'ed, nobody can die

Until extremely deep damp

So what happened in this 45 second match?

The healer must have been completely CCed

[wintry dew]

Isn't the current gameplay just zug zug m+ dps fuck CC?

[potent pivot]

no

[steel scarab]

So they've nerfed healing then?

[potent pivot]

i disagree with basically everything you just said except for the fact that most of the time you do want the healer CC'd

the first minute of a match is often the most impactful part

[steel scarab]

How do you disagree with that

[outer sky]

if you guys want to be sick, this is across an entire lobby. That's 5 hero talents in that screenshot for a total of 0.8% of my damage. and just one of them was half that. Like, come on blizzard....

[potent pivot]

in those matches they only micro cc'd the healer, the healer was DoT'd up almost the entire match

the last match i watched the entire enemy team was about to die at once

[steel scarab]

So, I haven't played on the PTR. Did they buff mortal strike? Or nerf healing?

[outer sky]

thats how assa is rn

[potent pivot]

no

[steel scarab]

So you're telling me damage is so insanely high that they can't heal through it?

[potent pivot]

i'm saying that what you're saying is so far into extremes, that it's false

[potent pivot]

yeah maybe it just isn't great in shuff but shines in 3s with a proper team/comp

[steel scarab]

When you say "micro cced" the healer, do you mean the healer did not get to resolve a heal spell?

Because a healer that can't cast a heal is the same as a 100% cced healer

[outer sky]

they were using CC as interupts rather than to actually remove the healer from the game

[steel scarab]

That's..... the same result with different steps

So what I said is still true

[wintry dew]

[steel scarab]

You cannot kill someone through heals

[potent pivot]

the healer has trinket and CDs man

you can't just infinitely shut them down

[steel scarab]

If you stop the heals from resolving, that's the only way a person can die. Idc if they're silences, stuns, if the healer gets arthritis and can't press his buttons, same end result

[potent pivot]

the healer was pressing buttons

[steel scarab]

It doesn't matter if the healer isn't fully stunned and can still run around. If he's silenced, he can't heal

If he's kicked, he can't heal

[potent pivot]

they even had time to do damage

[steel scarab]

Let me ask this a different way, because I didn't watch this match. Did that team go 45 seconds without a single heal?

[outer sky]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/so-can-rogue-hero-talents-actually-do-something-in-pvp/1924120

show your support

[potent pivot]

no

[steel scarab]

So those heals resolved

At what point, and for how long consecutively, was the healer unable to resolve heals?

Was it like a 3 second window? Or was he shut down for like 10 straight seconds?

[potent pivot]

i wasn't hyper analyzing shit man

[steel scarab]

I'm seriously asking

[potent pivot]

i was too busy watching them get destroyed

[stoic spruce]

I'm going on a water fast to cleanse my soul for TWW

[steel scarab]

I played a lot of games last season and would be #1 damage and still lose. It might look super scary and impressive, but it's very hard to actually cc the healer enough to get a kill that quickly

[potent pivot]

you act like the enemy team wasn't CCing defensively or doing anything at all to get their healer time to heal or something

[halcyon timber]

Drink nothing but apple juice xD

[potent pivot]

this wasn't glads vs 1200 cr people

[steel scarab]

I'm asking what they did

[potent pivot]

"last season"

[steel scarab]

Right, but on that meter, the hero damage tree did basically nothing

[potent pivot]

when assa was also OP

[steel scarab]

So I'm trying to gauge the difference in what changed

Did healing get worse? Did Wound mortal strike % improve? Or

[potent pivot]

assa's aoe rot is insane

aff's aoe rot is insane

those two combined

[steel scarab]

Were they 200 iq players who perfectly cced the healer and didn't let a heal resolve for a long period

[potent pivot]

and made some amazing 1 minute matches

like i don't get the issue

[wintry dew]

Sometimes discussing with James is really hard

[outer sky]

oh yeah @potent pivot on beta when I have an affi lock on my team it almost feels not worth it to blind the healer. Better to have all 3 of them taking as much DoT damage as possible

[steel scarab]

I'm trying to explain that last season, damage did not win games.

[potent pivot]

no, they just had too much pressure. so much that the healer could not keep up

[steel scarab]

You needed damage + healer cc

[potent pivot]

this isn't last season

it's beta

[potent pivot]

yeah i can imagine, aff is disgusting

[steel scarab]

So it sounds like perhaps, damage is so high that healing cannot keep up with damage. If so, that makes for better (and hopefully shorter) games

But more likely, they're gonna push it to how it was last season, and nerf the fuck out of damage

[potent pivot]

exactly right

[outer sky]

it depends on the comp and the healer. A good resto druid could probably have kept up better

[potent pivot]

whaazz and chan are also just some of the top rogues/locks in the world

[steel scarab]

I agree, but what tends to separate genius level pvpers from good pvpers is how perfectly they use cc

That's what I was trying to clarify

[potent pivot]

i don't think the cc mattered at all earlier

genuinely

[outer sky]

like it or not the skill gap between the decent players and the best players is shrinking every season

[steel scarab]

Crazy if true

Well, I mean

[outer sky]

When I'm playing beta it rarely feels worth it to use a global to CC the healer unless I'm playing with a particularly high burst class

[steel scarab]

That's what happens when you reduce the amount of cc every class is capable of

Every match of arena just becomes M+

[outer sky]

it's not the "amount" of CC that's being reduced being a problem, rather it's CC duration

[steel scarab]

I mean, that's what I meant, in different words

By amount I meant, what % of the match your opponents can't effectively play

[outer sky]

I'm still pissed off that 5 hero talents combined are doing sub 1% of my damage

thats just

inexcusable

[steel scarab]

I personally would love it if they just

Deleted those 5 hero talents

And made them utility nodes

That would be awesome

[outer sky]

yep 100%

i mean they could delete them and not replace them with anything and nobody would even notice

[steel scarab]

Make a node like, "you can now double jump" or "you now jump twice as far" lol

Another could be two new nonlethal poison options

Another could be, Crippling Poison slows an additional 40% but only lasts for 0.5 seconds

Idk, interesting shit to try

Instead of stupid passive damage bullshit (that's barely even doing anything anyway)

"Your Ambush damage is increased by 1000% from stealth and your Mutilate damage is increased by 500%, but your Garrote damage is reduced by 50%"

How hard would Ambush hit lol

[outer sky]

almost 4m

[steel scarab]

Okay, maybe 200% Ambush

And 100% Mutilate

[outer sky]

I had high hopes for fatal intent. I suspected I'd be disappointed but I didnt expect it to be bad to the point of total irrelevance

[steel scarab]

Yeah, they obviously didn't test this stuff

[wintry dew]

They probably did

For PvE

For 30 minutes

[steel scarab]

Lol

[wintry dew]

(20 afk)

Y'all gotta remember pvp is a nich part of wow

Like really niche

[steel scarab]

You know what's crazy about that to me?

[outer sky]

this guy knows what's up

[steel scarab]

From a workflow perspective, it's gotta be easier to create weapon and gear transmogs than it is to code a new raid

I would think, if Blizzard was smart, they'd realize the game would be a lot more profitable if they'd focus on making pvp fun

Because let's be honest

Nobody who pvps cares what the arena or the BG looks like

Or if there's dialogue

Or a story

[potent pivot]

yes let's nerf something that doesn't even work

[steel scarab]

They care that it's balanced and fun

They work so hard on stupid raids that probably a tremendous part of the playerbase does once, or never

[potent pivot]

wow pvp just isn't a main stream thing man

it never will be

[steel scarab]

I think it's because they make it so insanely inaccessible

[outer sky]

the biggest issue facing pvp is the lack of new players getting into it because they queue at 1200cr into alts of people with 10 gladiator achieves

[steel scarab]

It's impossible to learn wow pvp because the game itself does not teach you to pvp

At all

[outer sky]

theres literally no change they can make that will increase the PvP population unless they fix that problem

[potent pivot]

it's because of the amount of abilities, the fact that so much crowd control exists, the amount of interactions

[steel scarab]

No

It's more like

[potent pivot]

the only wow pvp that will ever go main stream is something like plunderstorm

[steel scarab]

The abilities you understand in pve do not work like you'd expect them to in pvp

Stuns have different durations. Things have diminishing returns (the game NEVER explains that to you, nor does it track it for you)

Abilities don't hit the same in pvp as they do in pve

Modifiers change

The game literally does not tell you any of this

[potent pivot]

it doesn't matter

[steel scarab]

That's just a fraction of the reason

There's no tutorial

There's practically no gear incentive

[potent pivot]

before pvp tuning on abilities was ever a thing wow pvp was still niche

[steel scarab]

There's barely any transmog incentive

[outer sky]

the learning curve is steep but not so steep that people can't get into it, and into it quickly. But the pvp brackets must match, at least somewhat closely, to the skill level of the player. How the fuck can you learn to play your class in pvp for the first time if you're queueing into me on my alt after your first 3 games and I'm almost 2800xp. It's just not going to happen. If this isn't fixed WoW pvp will always be the same small handful of people who already know how to play it

[steel scarab]

Hold on

[potent pivot]

there's more reward incentive than the entirety of m+ man

[steel scarab]

Ask yourself this

How many people DESPISED Plunderstorm and participated anyway because there were tangible, fun rewards?

There's your answer as to why nobody pvps and everybody did Plunder

[outer sky]

r1 is way more accessible in M+

[halcyon timber]

Pvers griefed and griped about plunder though

[steel scarab]

The game does not reward you for pvping

[potent pivot]

i'm talking about mogs and mounts

[steel scarab]

@halcyon timber I agree, but they still did it

I didn't

[halcyon timber]

Run into the storm so i can’t get ganked

[steel scarab]

But most people did

[stoic spruce]

shouldve released trios at launch and it wouldve been more well received

the gameplay was infinitely more smooth

[halcyon timber]

It was cool but def didn’t get to play it much. Was busy w life stuff

At some point people have to learn by doing regardless of the game

[steel scarab]

Storm was neat but it wasn't fun not having my character's abilities

[halcyon timber]

Gw2 was a big learn by doing especially on thief

[potent pivot]

plunderstorm even had more stream viewership than AWC

[stoic spruce]

theyre not your characters as they didnt have a class

[steel scarab]

I don't want random abilities in plunder, I want my character and my abilities

[potent pivot]

people liked it

a lot of people liked it

[stoic spruce]

hope when they re-release it they have trios at launch

[potent pivot]

i didn't like it and i'd even go as far to say i share a lot of the same opinions as you

but sometimes you gotta face the reality of the situation

[stoic spruce]

did it really?

[potent pivot]

yes

[stoic spruce]

thats wild

it also fixed a lot of whats wrong with wow pvp

so I can see why

[potent pivot]

i love wow pvp, i love having 15-20 abilities, etc
i wish it was main stream or even could be

[halcyon timber]

Me too

Id rather have a full box of tools than not have shit at all

[potent pivot]

but to make it main stream so many things would have to change that it would not be the pvp that we love

[halcyon timber]

It would be ffxiv limit break nonsense

[steel scarab]

Like taking away CC? 😉

[potent pivot]

the vast majority of people who enjoy pvp style games like having a handful of abilities and not losing control of their character, etc

[steel scarab]

I think

Personally

A huge part of what makes wow pvp feel bad is that there has to be a loser, and knowing that it's a human

If they made arena against bots

Where you queue with humans and fight bots

[halcyon timber]

Comp stomp is the training grounds

[steel scarab]

People would probably love it

[outer sky]

thats not PvP though lol

[steel scarab]

I know, but it's an idea

[halcyon timber]

Chuck e cheese robot killing sucks

[steel scarab]

I agree, but at first

It's probably fun

And would get people into pvp

Especially if the game trained the new people

As they played

[halcyon timber]

Just make comp stomp a thing like skirmishes

[potent pivot]

isn't that basically what delves are

solo or team pve

[halcyon timber]

Delves are pretty cool brann is pretty smart

[steel scarab]

Like imagine queueing as a new player and playing against me

There's probably as big a skill gap between me and that player as there is between me and Whazz

Would that be fun for the new player? Probably not. Would they learn anything? Probably not.

[halcyon timber]

Not a dumb ass hunter pulling stuff

[steel scarab]

Would that player want to queue more? Probably not.

Now imagine instead, they're queueing with players against bots, and the game has a tutorial that explains how they could've done better

[outer sky]

this is the problem I brought up.

[steel scarab]

It's not rocket science guys

[outer sky]

They need to fix the rating system

to make that very unlikely to happen

[steel scarab]

Yes, they absolutely do, but they can't do that when there aren't enough people queueing

[outer sky]

account wide MMR. Any new toon you make gets the same MMR minus like 200 points

[steel scarab]

And the only way to fix that problem

Is to get people queueing

Can't say it enough

[marble crag]

The problem with pvp is that it is very unattractive and unappealing to new people. So basically:
-20 buttons you have to press.
-You neeed 10 addons.
-You need 50 macros and 100 keybinds.

• Its frustrating bc you cant play the game with constant intterrupts.
• It is the only pvp game that is NOT fun to watch, Id say not even possible. Its imposible to know whats going on and therefore not fun to watch. If you cant get big views, people wont ever play it because its not trendy.

So yeah basically pvp will never be popular unless its overhauled but it cant be overhauled bc it shares some of the issues pve has

and they arent gonna chage that either so

[steel scarab]

Right.

They can prune classes. Subtlety doesn't need 20 buttons. Delete fucking symbols of death, right off the bat

[marble crag]

It would have to stop being wow

maybe in WoW 2 if it ever happens

[steel scarab]

You don't need 10 add ons if they build a pvp UI and a DR tracker into the game.

[marble crag]

but it wont happen in wow

[steel scarab]

They are capable of doing that.

Macros? Disable them all in pvp

[stoic spruce]

they added arena frames and we all know how that turned out

[steel scarab]

Now everyone's on the same playing field

[marble crag]

I think pvp will get more popular in TWW thanks to Blitz but will remain a niche

[steel scarab]

Too many interrupts? I mean, they're already reducing cc

[outer sky]

I'm r1 in M+ and I use all of the same macros in dungeons that i use in PvP. Thats the first time i've ever heard of that being an issue. To play the game in any way at a decent level you need lots of keybinds and macros. That's not exclusive to PvP at all

[steel scarab]

Doesn't seem like the craziest leap would be required to make pvp accessible

[marble crag]

that would be very nice but the devs refuse to do things they should be doing bc they rather get people do addons for free even at the expense of having a big entry barrier to new players...

[stoic spruce]

rating also doesnt go down in pve

[marble crag]

they are short sighted like that

[stoic spruce]

which helps a ton

[halcyon timber]

They aren’t going to reduce keystone rating like they do arena . People would shit their pants and wear it like a bandana

[marble crag]

If you kept readong youd see that I mentioned it shares many of the issues that pve has, there lied the main issue

[surreal barn]

https://warcraftstory.com

How many times have you all died

[outer sky]

the mechanics are just fundamentally different. They can't reduce M+ rating like arena rating.

[halcyon timber]

It was pretty cool i did that earlier too man

[steel scarab]

I don't think you should lose arena rating unless you lose multiple games in a row

[halcyon timber]

Yeh

[steel scarab]

I don't think you should be punished for one bad comp your class sucks against or bad teammates or griefers etc

[halcyon timber]

Brackets like diamond / gold / silver etc

[marble crag]

I wonder what would happen if they changed it so your pvp rating doesnt go down

[stoic spruce]

nooo I thought it launche don the 28th :/

[marble crag]

i havent thought about it before so i dont know but id be curious

[halcyon timber]

Monday no?

[stoic spruce]

yeah

[outer sky]

early access tomorrow, regular access is monday

[stoic spruce]

2 whole days before I can play

[marble crag]

wasnt it 26th?

i swear

[stoic spruce]

it is

read the message yall

[steel scarab]

Let's be real, do you guys realize the game does not even TELL you what the pvp breakpoint prestige ratings are? Like when I was climbing I had to keep asking, "what rating do i have to hit to get xyz transmog?"

[stoic spruce]

I THOUGHT it was the 28th

[marble crag]

@halcyon timber are you the same Eridian that posts in the rogue sub forum? :d

[stoic spruce]

yeah the same weirdo nucklebag

[marble crag]

blood elf rogue

Lel

[stoic spruce]

I just invented a new insult

[marble crag]

i like his posts

[outer sky]

it does though. At least, it tells you what you get for your next rank

[halcyon timber]

Yes sir , always

[marble crag]

I really liked your response the other day to that proposal in the forums to merge assa and sub into one spec. I thought it was savage hehe but on point

i couldnt reply bc im in european forums

[wintry dew]

it actually keeps telling you your next reward

[wintry dew]

oh didnt notice you'd already replied

[halcyon timber]

I am not a fan of destroying who we are and im not a fan of muddying what we do to appease people. I wasn’t trying to be savage or anything cool. Im just absolutely fed up with everything lately. Tolerance is at an all time low.

[marble crag]

yeah i could tell haha

[halcyon timber]

Been a rogue a very long time, im done with the nonsense.

[wintry dew]

[halcyon timber]

I try to be respectful until people really start trying to be cute and yeah i have a hot head but people have a disrespect problem that needs culling.

Anyways enough of that

[steel scarab]

@outer sky right but, there's no way to plan out what your ultimate goal is, because there's nowhere in the game that even tells you what the rewards are until you have reached the tier before them.

[wintry dew]

I mean

Its even hard to reply to you

You're non stop complaining today

The rewards have been the same thresholds since SL s1

[spring bough]

So not one player is named Vancleef on a certain server but it won’t let me name my player it what gives lol

[wintry dew]

"lore characters"

Its normal

[spring bough]

No u can name ur char that

Maybe it’s like in the process of being deleted? Lol

96 others named that

[wintry dew]

oh then thats weird

[halcyon timber]

Could be an old char that is inactive right?

Like years and years inactive

[spring bough]

Sorted the name lookup by server and it’s not on there. That’s what I’m thinking. And it’s hopefully soon to be deleted

It whatever lol. Got Vaanncleef for now

[broken otter]

I waited 5min to see a 30sec video with a giant pause button I couldn't remove that mentioned like 3 of my stats.

Weak sauuucccceeee

[wintry dew]

it worked fine for me

[broken otter]

It was 30sec of Xal'bae saying like 3 things from my stats over a model of my character

I was like "well at least they cached my data. So I can just click get a new story and get another video quick"

Nope! Lol

[stoic spruce]

I thought it was cute idk lol

I love expansion recaps

[cinder elm]

damage taken

tf?

am i crazy

[outer sky]

Assa teamfight damage in BGs is INSANE holy shit

jesus christ lmfao

[lime oar]

That’s nutty lol

[outer sky]

and thats with dying 5x

[lime oar]

Can u share the dmg sheet for it ?

[outer sky]

you mean the breakdown?

[lime oar]

Yee details

If u have it still

[lime oar]

Was gonna say I bet CT is doing Work

[outer sky]

lmfao

[lime oar]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-my-god-wow-snap-damn-amazing-gif-12917328

[atomic adder]

You know what also does work in BGs? Sudden demise haha. Had a game earlier with 38 KB and next highest person in game had 7

[outer sky]

those 2 other rogues both doing under 100m damage lol

WW monk doing under 60m, hate to see it

I did over 100m more damage than every other dps besides one

and I died 5x

absolutely love to see it

and one of the rogue's doing under 100m was also assass LOL

we died the same amount of times and I more than 3x his damage

350k CT tick hahahaha

and I was our only real MS so I couldnt even play deadly poison

that would have been another few million damage

[outer sky]

@potent pivot are you seeing this shit?? lol it's a slaughter

[graceful ravine]

whuch spec is fastest to level?

[graceful ravine]

do you spam CT or only to keep the dot up

[outer sky]

dont spam it unless youre energy capped and have nothing better to press

wastes sanguine blades damage

[graceful ravine]

do you never press mut?

[outer sky]

only if I cant hit 2+ targets with FoK

[spring bough]

Outlaw prob lol

Wb dayv time to crush season one

[graceful ravine]

zug zug brother

[outer sky]

outlaw is pretty slow until you get ADR at level 40

maybe assass to 40 then outlaw

[graceful ravine]

meant for 70-80 lol

[outer sky]

oh yeah

probs outlaw

[spring bough]

I was just doing a normal raid at 480 ilvl and I was 50k dps behind a 525 pally on a boss

Outlaw feels strong prepatch for that content lol. Leveling gonna be a breeze

[graceful ravine]

glad to see you never giving up on the outlaw life haha

[spring bough]

Quote of the night from a bg “Dragonflight ends tomorrow except for poor people” 😂

[low moon]

def - copied over to beta and was basically just 1shotting mobs. no clue how long that will last, but it will at least be a smooth start 🙂

[outer sky]

how did I do 23.5m damage

and not kill these guys

like they were both around half hp when me and my guy died

[low moon]

because mage and priest

absorbs, heals, DR, etc etc.

[spring bough]

Yeah ima be 80 before they make changes so GG lol

[graceful ravine]

im too lazy to spec outlaw for leveling and have to swap back to sin/sub for bgs/arenas at max lvl

and set up keybinds zzz

[outer sky]

You should have all 3 specs set up anyway so that you can swap when one is better than the others

[spring bough]

But then I would have to play sub 😭

[wooden tiger]

Mobs have 85-100k hp at lvl70 and tuned for 408ilvl. It's normal.

[low moon]

||https://tenor.com/view/xavier-gif-27574340||

[low moon]

that gif was annoying af lol

has anyone seen if soloq BG's will count for artifact weapon tints?

[last jasper]

It says “rated” so it def should

[lusty epoch]

How perfect opener/burst rotation for outlaw supposed looks like?

[last jasper]

am I tripping? I have this appearence on my rogue. But not on a dk

[cyan mural]

how does the survivability of the specs compares against each other. Just saw a "tier list" video on youtube, and the guy said that it got at least slightly nerfed for all specs. That true or wrong and is it an important nerf or not?

[stoic spruce]

Yeah leech got nerfed

But Outlaw is the tankiest

Then sub then assa

[cyan mural]

Is the "tankines" of the specs relevant, or is that something like "nice to have but not decisive in most cases"?

If you decide on a spec, would you consider how tanky they are or is that so unimportant that it doesn't matter

[stoic spruce]

It's not irrelevant at all. I mean, Outlaw can have insane uptime on feint and that adds up fast throughout the arena. On top of Evasion CDR and the pistol shot talent.
But yeah you would consider how tanky they are.

You mean relative to each rogue spec or every spec in the game?

[stoic spruce]

I didn't even bring up vanish cdr

[cyan mural]

Good question. Since Im personally a one trick pony, probably only relative to each other. But the more I think about the question, relative to all specs is also important. lol.

When I played outlaw, was always considered (by far) the worst pvp spec. But it seems like all three are now viable options, from what other people say on youtube.

[stoic spruce]

The worst rogue spec sure. It's very hard for rogue in general to be bad with what it's got lol. That goes without saying ofc.
If you're choosing base off tankiness the winner is outlaw no contest.

Even relative to other specs

Outlaw is pretty tanky

Which is wild really

Sub too but for different reasons

Assa a little tank

[cyan mural]

When I played, it was considered the worst pvp rogue spec, but also one of the lower performing builds over all for arena. Because it had no burst, and it was all about bursting.

[stoic spruce]

When did you play

[cyan mural]

Start of the shadowlands, battle for A and legion expension

[lusty epoch]

Im testing outlaw on beta i never rly played(main lock) and outlaw tbh its by fsr most fub rogue spec and im consider this spec as my new main for tww

[blissful osprey]

I played some outlaw PvP in season 3 and 4. Felt like aids damages, used to win a lot on dampening but before that just felt like I was doing not enough burst during cc windows.

I hear outlaw is in a decent place in TWW for PvP and will likely be quite strong in solo shuffle

Perhaps holding double charge of vanish and ghostly strike going into a kill window is a good play, outside of that just farming back the charges would take around 30-40 seconds for 100% uptime

[cyan mural]

I looked at the rotations for the different specs on wowhead. And assassin seems like it became super complicated.

[lusty lion]

You can't really apply PvE rotations to a pvp scenario

[cyan mural]

Outlaw and Subtlety seem to be way easier in comparision. And easier but at the same power level is probably always preferred in pvp

Well its the optimal cleave rotation for dmg? So, in my understanding. If you could perform this rotation (assuming cleaving is the optimal play in your arena game), this would be what you had to do. Of course you still have to cc + def cd's while performing this.

[lusty lion]

Well exactly and having to perform CC completely changes it. Also the talents/trinkets are different.

[blissful osprey]

Erm yeah but PvP way easier imo 😄

[lusty lion]

I agree

[cyan mural]

But it does not make it easier. Its something that you have to do on top. Like, you still want to play the most optimal dmg rotation + do all the actions necessary for pvp.

[lusty lion]

There is a GCD in the game tho :p

[blissful osprey]

Well that graph is based on like a 5+ target count

[lusty lion]

Check icyveins pvp rotations if you wanna see the difference

Also you gotta take into account that you're gonna get cc'd a ton as well

[blissful osprey]

PvP usually with carnage you might get one additional application of the bleed. PvP is just
Open with garrotes and cheap shots, spend on ruptures

Trinket opener and full send

Sap healer of course

Pvp is more situational for sure and learning how to play vs diff comps but I’m just saying that the rotation is way simpler to execute as it’s just cc, spread bleed, do some burst reset or whatever

[lusty lion]

Yea I never said it's more difficult necessarily. Barebones in an optimal scenario, pvp rotation is much easier than the picture above, but yea you're fighting humans so it's going to be different every time.

[blissful osprey]

Personally I like

Sap healer
Garrotes kill target, cheap shot kill target, rupture kill target, mutiliate, crimson tempest, re cheap
Mark of death, Shiv, tea, KB,
Vanish
Reapply improved garrotes on kill target and healer
Cheap shot healer
Rupture healer
Reshiv kill target + tea
Blind healer
Gg

Do that will get you to like 2.1k without healer needing to do anything

Maybe save blind let the bleeds do their thing

Personally feel like sin is weak outside of KB/Shiv windows so I like to run pillar after my goes against casters

[cyan mural]

I looked at it (did not ready everything of course). But it looks to me just like the single target rotation. With out "Cheap Shot/Sap" in pve; and of course in pvp you have the opener and keep the cd's for the burst, while in pve you do both always directly at the start to use the cd.

(picture is from the pve wowhead single target rotation)

[blissful osprey]

Yeah looks good, I forgot about the deathstalker changes

Add a cheap in after the garrote prob

And recheap on kill target after death mark whenever it runs out

Can blind healer off the sap of your healer is poopy

Outside of your burst just try restealth on pillar and defensive kidneys 😄

A lot can be achieved by keep bleeds up and kidney run away 😄 restealth back into a cheap shot improved kidney scenario

Okay I take it back PvP is much high kill gap because of the situation awareness but rotational pve aoe is way harder cause of the maintenance of bleeds etc. need to get your Ui set up right for that

[cyan mural]

Like, Im defenetly not even close to beeing really good at rogue. But I look at the pve single target opener for sub and it looks like this. It just seams to be way easier especially if you can macro the 3-Cd's into 1-Button.

[lusty lion]

And any point you can receive a (micro)CC, enemy can trinket, you might have to peel for teammates etc and each one of these things is going to change the button you're pressing next. Priority lists are a much better fit for pvp rather than a fixed rotation

[lusty lion]

sub is useless if neither healer nor kill target are in cc

the difficulty of playing the class doesn't arise from it's optimal damage rotation but from the fact that you have to juggle the enemy DRs, keep everyone cc'd during your gos and not getting peeled

[candid tide]

fk am i going to play TWW or not!!@!

[cyan mural]

I never disagreed with anything you said in regards to "the extra" you need to do in pvp. Thats all correct. All I said, was that you still have to play the optimal dmg rotation as much as possible + "the extra". And if all specs are approximately equal dmg wise, it would be beatifically to play a spec that is less difficult and therefore less prone to mistakes or disruption. And at least judging from what I see, assa might have the most complicated dmg rotation, but I could be wrong with that 🤷‍♂️

[candid tide]

assa is a melee lock

[fallen scaffold]

flying daggers > sanguine stratagem ?

[lusty lion]

Yea I totally understand what you mean, but I think even the most complicated of all damage rotations in the game is the least of your concerns in a pvp environment. The rotation itself is going to be second nature to you in no time at all even if it might take a day longer than the simplest rotation. At the end of the day the specs feel very different to play as well, right. Sub is pure setup burst (which arguably feels terrible with random teammates in shuffles), while assa is about spreading your bleeds and keeping pressure high over time.

So all I'm saying is, in my opinion you shouldn't make any decision based on complexity of rotation sheets, it's just not a meaningful, conclusive factor

[hollow carbon]

I don't really see the complicated stuff for assa rogue here, these are openers for PVE. It's all about the basic understanding how the spec you want to play is doing dmg. In case of assass, you want to have at least garrote + rupture on the target you want to kill. Preferable you want to have an improved garrote on the target ticking (garrote from stealth/subterfuge). Then you have 1 min Kingsbane CD and 2 min Deathmark, so you can line them up. If you have both up, you want to put Deathmark on the Target, then a Shiv and afterwards Kingsbane, since Deathmark duplicates bleeds and poisons (which will benefit kingsbane dmg). On top of that, you want to have an Envenom Buff up, so you apply more poisons > more Kingsbane dmg.

Obviously you want to have a Stun on Target meanwhile, cross CC on off-target who could peel, and CC on heal or smokebomb etc.

Additionally, you can macro Thistle Tea into Kingsbane (which buffs mastery > bigger bleeds)

[blissful osprey]

My advice for anyone looking to get into PvP is to learn the optimal rotation perfectly in keys until it becomes muscles memory and then completely forget it and focus solely on CC, enemy trinkets and defensive, peeling during their burst with defensive kidneys/disarms/gouge etc and you’ll be doing your optimal damage when you can cause you know the rotation well. But also bear in mind dps is not as important as burst so sometimes that means not using ghostly strike on cd for outlaw, or saving dance to line up with Stun DR running out, or restealth to open again for more pressure as assassination.
If you mindlessly just try and do optimal dps pve rotation in arena you will lose every time

Learn the rotation in keys, delves or queue solo dungeons with bots 😄 don’t try learn it in PvP

Watch some streamers too that commentate what they are doing like pika

[hollow carbon]

@cyan mural When I think about it, you are right in that regard that rogue in general needs some preparation to do more optimal dmg then some other classes or specs. If you are looking out for an easier dmg rotation so you can focus on all the other stuff in PVP thats absolutely fine. Sub Rog has other challenges which makes it harder than assass I would say. Assass is considered the easiest rogue specs for PVP.

[cyan mural]

Could you explain why assassination is considered easier then outlaw? I always though outlaw is considered the easiest spec for rogue?

[lusty lion]

once assa has spread it's poisons/bleeds you're kinda chilling, damage is ticking and you're doing fine while outlaw requires high uptime/apm to create value out of its kit

personally can't say much about outlaw's damage tuning in the current state, but assa is in a good place for that

[hollow carbon]

You have keep high uptime on adrenaline rush, so you want to maximize Vanish usage/Shadowmeld if NE, watch roll the bones buff, watch slice and dice buff, watch bladeflurry uptime (i think dont need that one anymore). So in an arena setting, you need to keep track on all of your buffs, then DRs, then prepare all those buffs are ready when you want to do dmg and have high uptime while on 0.8sec GCD. That has changed a bit afaik, so Outlaw seems a bit more chill in TWW.

As assass you dont have to think too much about Gouge as CC, since it breaks on dmg and you want to have bleeds rolling on everyone. Just want to look out for kidney shot and cheap shots every 30 sec and apply 2 dots which are your main dmg. thats quite easy to do, try it out 🙂

[cyan mural]

The honest answer is "maybe". Like, rogue was/is the class i enjoyed the most. But I enjoyed how it plays a lot less with every new iteration of its specs. It seems like some things improve (and I mean not in regards to the actual numbers, but from needed maintenance, bloat and enjoyability) but more things over time become more annoying, it become way more maintenance heavy and just less fun. I also heard that not a lot basically changed for rogue from the last addon to the new one, and then I read feedback like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1cpvtzj/why_rogue_so_underplayed/ and its basically all negative about rogue.

I do whish I could just test rogue, but I would need to buy a month play time and then the addon. Thats a lot of money, for something that might just be not enjoyable. Maybe, I should start with another class, like DH, and then see, if I can come back to a rogue, but no other class actually gets me really exited.

[hidden moth]

so now for assa our “shadowdance” is that extra vanish right? so i assume i should hold 1 vanish for an extra escape?

[steel scarab]

DID THEY MAKE VICIOUS VENOMS GOOD???

I am suddenly excited

[hollow carbon]

No shadowdance anymore for assass in TWW

[wary aurora]

is there any way to say if sub or assass is better?

[hollow carbon]

thats the right word actually "maintenance heavy", especially for outlaw. assa is a bit of maintenance but really fun in the current iteration and all of DF in my opinion, it feels better than ever

@hidden moth or do you mean just taking 2nd vanish? depends if you are the target and against what comp you play. very situational but usually want to use it also offensive i would say

[outer sky]

It's because outlaw has a proc based priority rotation that changes based on which buffs you have. Like if you have a pistol shot proc, you use it over ambush and sinister strike, unless you also have an audacity proc, then you ambush over the pistol shot proc, unless you dont have the broadside buff, then you ambush over pistol shot even with a proc and no audacity. Just an example

its basically unplayable without weakauras

[cyan mural]

that sounds horrible, did they change any of that with the next addon?

[outer sky]

no lol

[terse bolt]

am i getting randomly pulled out of stealth or am i tripping?

[outer sky]

Where have you been for the last 20 years?

[terse bolt]

mom's basement

my mom's not yours

[outer sky]

but yes subterfuge is kinda bugged right now

more than usual

[terse bolt]

if i take it off the problem will go away?

it just pisses me off to break out of stealth and suddenly being full dots

[hidden moth]

yea i know that but im using 2 vanishes now.

[hidden moth]

its a common bug apparently

[lusty lion]

The only bug I can reliably replicate is vanish/stealth breaking if youve got subterfuge running

[hollow carbon]

thats an example to play it super optimal especially in a PVE setting. in PVP it doesnt matter too much, since you gonna burst with Between the Eyes most of the time or just use Dispatch as a Finisher if not ready.

[lusty lion]

which is bad enough on it's own but there's definitely more stuff goin on

[hollow carbon]

so we could work around that with writing a cancelaura macro for stealth and vanish?

[last jasper]

Sub is better. Not by a lot, but still

[terse bolt]

Whose idea was to reduce sap duration and not decrease the cap timer?

now morons just stand next to the flag without trinket 🥳

[terse bolt]

tried it just now, doesn't work either

i even threw soul shape in there out of tilt

who knows what is going on with the game

[kind parcel]

Is disc priest still impossible to 1v1 outside damping?

[hollow carbon]

i mean cancelaura subterfuge works maybe? 😦

[terse bolt]

nah it doesn't, don't even know if it is subterfuge now. best way to describe is that "something" interacts with my character and throws them out of stealth

as if the stealth from the stance bar overwrites my macro on its own will

i am sitting idle in SW and i am still getting out of stealth, the fuck

[hollow carbon]

hope they fix it soon

[graceful ravine]

what time does early access start?

[terse bolt]

7-8 hours

[outer sky]

6pm EST assuming it doesn't get delayed.

[lusty lion]

You cannot cancelaura Subterfuge. I was trying it with a cast sequence macro a few days ago which sometimes works, sometimes it doesnt

#showtooltip Vanish
//use !Vanish
/castsequence reset=6 !Vanish, null, null, null, null, null
/use !Stealth

[indigo hill]

You cant buy conquest boxes even if youre rating is over 1400 in blitz?

[hollow carbon]

feelsbad

[spring bough]

Happy early launch day. 6pm est can’t come soon enough. They better open on time 😂

[spring bough]

They removed conquest from the game this week. Only way u can get conq gear on an alt is if a main has the currency and you buy and send the boxes. If you got 1400 in blitz after season then that doesn’t count RIP

[warped gate]

WoW is back up, bois.

[plucky escarp]

There is something in deathstalker taking me out of stealth on beta. I can’t tell if it is the marks or the plague dmg of something

Same thing on assa and sub

[halcyon timber]

Corrupt the blood was doing that early on and was fixed but may have broken again dunno

[spring bough]

Holy shit they might open early access on time 😂

[halcyon timber]

Im just happy to level in peace and enjoy the story without 400000 people parking their butts on the npcs

[hollow carbon]

Sweet summer child

There are prob more players with early access then not 👀

[halcyon timber]

Probably but whatever

[hollow carbon]

release will be awesome

I cannot participate tho

[halcyon timber]

It will be what people make of it for sure

On monday? That stinks man

[plucky escarp]

I’ll be online at like midnight, play until 2ish then wake up at 7/8 and play all day until like 4 PM. I love release days I feel like a wee child again

[halcyon timber]

Can’t wait to start making new potions 🧪. Im going to bring back the old school style Orgrimarr bank advertising jingles again

[halcyon timber]

Yeah ive got a really early day tomorrow but ill be logging in as soon as im done with it all again.

[plucky escarp]

I got to send the kids to school and I have purposefully cleared my day tomorrow to do nothing but play this game lol.

[halcyon timber]

Get immersed afffff

[plucky escarp]

I have fake meetings set up and everything

[halcyon timber]

Tactical gaming yeah boy

Putting my phone on silent and ignoring the planet

[waxen meteor]

The start is today or tmr?

[halcyon timber]

Today T

[waxen meteor]

Still at gym now haven’t checked yet

[halcyon timber]

At 6pm est 3pm west

[waxen meteor]

Ok late afternoon got it

Thanks boss

[halcyon timber]

No sweat my man

We can at least obtain bloody tokens which is nice and no more trophy requirements

Honor capped at 4k for now but no vendors in case people didn’t know. I think Trickz put up a pin for more info too.

[last jasper]

Isn’t world quest are turned off too?

[halcyon timber]

I think we unlock them at 80 but some of the deeper things like the more difficult delves may be turned off . Dunno as alpha was a lot of focused testing and beta was more stress testing random stuff. We will find out soon though

[last jasper]

Delves are 100% turned off beyond level 3

[halcyon timber]

Good deal

To prevent leap frogging hard core

[last jasper]

I just curious it would be really stupid of them to let us farm tokens and limit honor (which you can cap in like 2h)

[halcyon timber]

You may be on to something, they are prob monitoring stuff real closely

Im just happy for new adventures and story etc

“New sneaker smell”

[last jasper]

Same. The only reason I wanted early access

[halcyon timber]

Yeah i really loved all the zones in testing

Hallowfall is awesome. Something is up w the priiory. I don’t trust those mfs

Really want a lynx

Can’t wait to get one

[last jasper]

I didnt saw them yet.

[halcyon timber]

They have A LOT of sidestories and quests too

Freakin dig it a lot

[last jasper]

I did that mistake in bfa beta. And couldn’t stand leveling my alts after 😂

[halcyon timber]

Hallowfall changing to night cycles is sick and how the npcs react to it and monsters etc

Yeah i didn’t dig too deeply so i don’t ruin stuff for myself

[last jasper]

Sounds awesome. Sad day/night cycle is attached to real time 🫠

[halcyon timber]

The events are cool too and lots of pvp opportunities

In hallowfall there is an event protecting the holy lamps that we cannot stealth unless you pick up an item and it locks other classes out of stuff too . (Intended to be dangerous and the npcs evolve their stuff with the event progression)

Really cool area and pretty gruesome out there as the enemies are pretty freakin strong

Azj kahet is creepy and cool and there are a lot of wc3 stories and stay a while and listen conversations to definitely keep an eye out for

[last jasper]

I hope the new main city won’t tank fps like it did in valdraken 😂

[spring bough]

When I hit 80 I’m going to valdrak and flexing on the 70s

/flex all day

[last jasper]

Or duel outside storm/ogri 😂

[wintry dew]

@potent pivot

priest 70

[halcyon timber]

Didn’t seem to. Dornogal is definitely split into procedural noding vs the past w fewer particle simulations (the extra dragons in val were instanced geo node based sims - coming from a vfx artist)

[indigo hill]

I wonder how many people that got early acces will stand in the new starting zone on monday to kill level 70's.

[wintry dew]

warmode off and problem fixed

[halcyon timber]

Oh that’s def going down. The stress test was full of goons after the event

Yeah non wm fixes all of that like royal said ha

Ringing deeps has great world pvp too

Lots of sick ass mine carts and places to jump off and shit

Like donkey kong country 2 down there ( mine cart madness stages)

[gusty hedge]

imagine dying to 70's because of scaling issue, man

[halcyon timber]

REVENGE OF THE ROGUES DRAWS NIGH! THE AGE OF BLADES HAS BEGUN

[gusty hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/gladiator-vengeance-revenge-maximus-decimus-russel-crowe-gif-16272715

[halcyon timber]

Cold af line

Love that movie

[gusty hedge]

sad to say i still havent watched the gladiator

[halcyon timber]

Headed to the gas station to get energy drinks . My cuss words will shoot lightning from excitement

[last jasper]

[potent pivot]

:O

[indigo hill]

Sad to say i still havent figured out which race to play. 😭

[indigo hill]

Possibly one of the best sets they have ever made for priest.

[last jasper]

Id say the best

[wintry dew]

acquired in 4 hours of gameplay

[indigo hill]

According to a test i took, Orc fits me best.

[last jasper]

Us or eu?

[wintry dew]

Eu

[halcyon timber]

That set is cold for sure

[potent pivot]

🔥

[wintry dew]

I was lvl20 this morning iirc

[last jasper]

Weird. I spent 1 hour sitting on eu today on an empty event

[wintry dew]

you sure you kept changing maps?

[last jasper]

yep