Woah
#pvp
lime oar
muted abyss
I've literally never gone out in public without seeing someone at leat 100lbs overweight in the US
potent pivot
that's definitely an overstatement
muted abyss
Not in Texas lol
potent pivot
kinda weird too ngl
lime oar
Generalization due to popular media
I’m in DFW airport right now and I’m seeing hella fit people
muted abyss
Oh, I'm in Austin and it's hella fit people as well, but there is always at least a few people that are huuuuge
Go to one of the shitter states, and it's every other person
lime oar
Yeah I mean I think the US def leads in obesity
lime oar
Damn fr
muted abyss
Yeah, they drink more coke than water
spring bough
dr pepper was technically medicine right so its okay??
muted abyss
also served warm / hot
lime oar
Yeah it’s fine.
spring bough
bring back coke in coca cola 2025
spring bough
Oh wow outlaw isn’t even using four set for pve lol
Looks like we got some more crafted we can do
stoic spruce
pen15
yeah i doubt tier is in its final stages of tuning
id be surprised if at least one doesnt change honestly
potent pivot
Oh wow outlaw isn’t even using four set for pve lol
yeah that is NOT going to stay like that lmao
they'll buff it or change it or something
stoic spruce
trickz
I thopught of something
an idea
hypothtically
but a tllaent
right
where the more dispatches you send, the harder your next BtE hits
I think I'd like that
and each finisher thats a consecutive dispatch
dispatch dmg increases
and ofc the bte cast resets the dispatch dmg
wait whats our tier in tww
spring bough
2 set is sinister pistol and ambush have 20% to ethereal rampage dealing 15% inc dmg as shadow. 4 set is ethereal rampage inc the damage of the next BTE by 6% stacking up to 3 times
Sounds kinda poop
spring bough
So 18% inc on BTE and then for pvp that’s what 9% yeah four set doesn’t sound too hype
stoic spruce
ehhh not too worried tbh
itll get buffed fo sho
maybe if its buffed enough, it'll be enough to make non-crackshot builds not as terrible
I miss those days
spring bough
Trying to get these red daggers from remix for rogue. Just have to camp 3 rares while I grind my last levels lol
potent pivot
that's the last flag build nahj tried
minus replicating shadows
it's trash
oh and he's playing ER
ew
dropping Tea or any other capstones on class tree
is terribad
surreal barn
I was playing sepsis/flag/brew/tea for these gigantic one shots this week
It was fun
potent pivot
yeah if you they let you get flag off it feels nice
surreal barn
Shuffle Assa has been more fun
surreal barn
less stuff getting tracked in BGs
Plus you can be far away buffing your flag and then run at their healer 30 yards away and take them out
Druids especially
spring bough
I like how kul tiran gets 1% vers and some healing and humans get 2% of all secondary’s. Balanced racials 😂
jolly sierra
once in a EOTS have seen a kul tiran punching a goblin so hard in draenei ruins than ended dropping in the abyss cuz the aim where was punched lol
spring bough
Honestly I might play this more if I can kick shamans and hunters off the flag in EOTS and off the LM on AB
It’s fun to do that lol
Like nah you aent capping this flag SEE YAH
jolly sierra
so who is ready to do a lizard rogue?
spring bough
Never lol
jolly sierra
XD
potent pivot
so who is ready to do a lizard rogue?
whats this from
jolly sierra
whats this from
a wowhead comment in dracthyr animations
jolly sierra
yeah, was one of the first ones
potent pivot
or do you mean an actual Comment on the wowhead news post
jolly sierra
toxic af but are funny to read
potent pivot
The only cool thing about dracthyr being other class imo
Is flying in open world
Can’t they dragonfly without a mount
Or is that on a long CD type deal
muted abyss
so who is ready to do a lizard rogue?
I just wanna play evoker in normal form, not lizard form
jolly sierra
Imagine stealth flight
oooooh
jolly sierra
I just wanna play evoker in normal form, not lizard form
have sense
potent pivot
have sense
man
350k spent in past 2 days
got 5 toons lvled in less than 5hr total tho
muted abyss
that's a lot
potent pivot
70k per 10-70 char
jolly sierra
i think can pay the xp without hurting the wallet
potent pivot
and been leveling others myself
jolly sierra
why u didnt went remix
jolly sierra
a
potent pivot
to afk it
jolly sierra
xd
potent pivot
been leveling other toons myself as well on remix
muted abyss
I just lucked out with my remix toons, I'm in a group of boosters for free lol
muted abyss
same, 3rd rogue and that's it
outer sky
@potent pivot Trying out stacking crit as outlaw instead of haste and I think it's better. Some other rogues I've talked to on beta also said so. They said the whole haste stacking thing for the 0.8s GCD is a PvE thing
potent pivot
<@629463378250956810> Trying out stacking crit as outlaw instead of haste and I ...
personally i think they're out of their minds, but i haven't tested it myself yet
outer sky
Also this weapon enchant, suffocating darkness, is broken
potent pivot
every class that has hasted gcd stacks haste to a certain gcd cap
potent pivot
Also this weapon enchant, suffocating darkness, is broken
yeah that's wild
with our vanish and ADR uptime
i don't think there's a single solitary shot we don't run haste
until i hear someone reputable like trill say its bad
outer sky
according to Murlok people dont seem to run it
potent pivot
brother
potent pivot
murlok is live
outer sky
but still
potent pivot
not beta
potent pivot
yeah but everyone already has gear rn
i doubt anyone's optimizing live rn
it'd be kinda pointless
potent pivot
isnt the GCD change also live?
you're asking palumor
outer sky
yeah
outer sky
idk anyone more reputable than pal
stacking haste definitely feels like trash compared to stacking crit I can say that much
potent pivot
we'll see when the season starts 
i know what i'm going first
extra globals are just really important
prolly gaining like
30-50 globals per match depending on match length
stoic spruce
shouldve saved that luck for S1 lmaoo
potent pivot
crit really doesn't even have any interactions with outlaw other than more dmg does it
stoic spruce
negative
stoic spruce
nah
stoic spruce
well
yeah no
it would take some sort of crit interaction
but does outlaw really need that?
potent pivot
well the conversation was stacking crit vs taking haste
potent pivot
not really about what there could be
stoic spruce
every class that has hasted gcd stacks haste to a certain gcd cap
this really sums up all that needs to be said
like
eh nvm. eyes are too heavy to think
outer sky
4x BTE crit dam
stoic spruce
yeah that sounds like (not to sound like a broken record but) a pre-crackshot cook
stoic spruce
imp bte is also nerfed in pvp
since when?
stoic spruce
prolly for the better
potent pivot
@outer sky i'm looking through all the hasted classes right now
legit every single one of the runs 20-30% haste in pvp
outer sky
but arent we only "hasted" during a cooldown?
potent pivot
a cooldown with 50% uptime
outer sky
but still, 50% vs other classes at 100%
outer sky
its contested because people question how good it is to stack a stat that's trash for half the game
potent pivot
it's not trash though
haste has more interactions than that
like yeah outside of ADR crit would be better
but you've still got FF, Main Gauche etc
potent pivot
its contested because people question how good it is to stack a stat that's tras...
how long does it take to get a char ready on beta
with crafted gear and all
potent pivot
kk
outer sky
so this changed in 3 days?
potent pivot
prolly tomorrow ill get it and see myself
potent pivot
so this changed in 3 days?
nah it didn't change it was just 4am
waxen meteor
but he doesn't even know the change
what change on global now
just came back from cincinati open, world change again?
potent pivot
i've said that multiple times before
waxen meteor
ok let scroll up...
potent pivot
what change on global now
outlaw requires haste for short GCD in adrenaline rush now
waxen meteor
ah oaky
potent pivot
so this changed in 3 days?
it's not "good" outside of ADR, like i said a minute ago crit is prolly better outside of ADR
but 50% uptime on ADR definitely outweighs that
i'll get beta and see for myself tomorrow
i'd rather know before season starts
than wait over a month for others to test it
outer sky
Idk man I'm just spamming lobbies back and forth some with crit stack some with haste stack
i'd love to get you on beta too
because I'm getting mixed results
potent pivot
ye i'll get it tmrw fuck it
i need to go to bed after i'm done lvling this mage
trying to fix my schedule a bit
outer sky
trying to fix my schedule a bit
why? It's just going to get fucked up again
potent pivot
got things to do man
ik it'll get fucked up again it always does
but normal folks be doin stuff during the day
halcyon timber
I just wanna play evoker in normal form, not lizard form
That is coming too (not to necro but just catching up in chat). It was in a blizz dev yt vid they put out talking about dracthyr like last wk iirc
outer sky
@potent pivot No feral clone isnt insta cast
potent pivot
<@629463378250956810> No feral clone isnt insta cast
Yeah someone was talking about cata during a beta conversation
Or some shit
outer sky
I guess ill try a lobby as assass
outer sky
?
whos stream am I on now lol
oh thats Mes
should have known
I went 3-3
not bad
but there was one game the lock lived with 360 hp
and he got BoPd
and we lost
feelsbad
thats why I hate BoP
cinder elm
do you ever consider kidney in subterfuge/dance or stealth
in the interest of saving binds
halcyon timber
but there was one game the lock lived with 360 hp
Surely poison knife deals more than that heh
halcyon timber
do you ever consider kidney in subterfuge/dance or stealth
Whacha mean man?
cinder elm
been using this to only kidney out of stealth to save a bind
u would never cast kidney in subterfuge yah?
halcyon timber
Depends what is going on and is purely based on situation and value.
Ie stopping a healer with a kidney shot to extend into a blind + sap etc.
cinder elm
are they on teh same dr
halcyon timber
All stuns are
cinder elm
i remember seeing someone say kidney is different after the 30 sec thing
but maybe i was hallucinating
halcyon timber
Most likely heh
I think they only stun that doesn’t dr is infernal stun from a warlock
Earthshock from shaman used to do the same too ( was legion or some crap)
outer sky
if anyone is watching Mes' stream right now, its a perfect demonstration of what I mean when I say assass does a shit ton of damage but cant kill anything
halcyon timber
Crud
Wondering what the realistic tuning knob is here. ( they did say hero talents are the primary part and they are keeping a close eye on things)
halcyon timber
Woo
outer sky
the most annoying thing ever
halcyon timber
Agreed
outer sky
everything is dying but nothing dies
halcyon timber
Mw / disc as heals?
Oh nvm
Double priesr
Priest*
What would be dumb is if something silly like an external cd like dark archangel gave you the punch you “needed”
outer sky
it needs a cooldown that it can press to finish someone
it doesn't have that right now
even if we get it at the cost of some spread pressure
thats fine
like
halcyon timber
Hmm ideas?
outer sky
that lobby was just disgusting
halcyon timber
Maybe reverse the kb tuning?
outer sky
I'm literally keeping the entire enemy team sub 50% the whole game doing more damage than everyone else but I cant get a kill
halcyon timber
Back to more punch less dot ?
halcyon timber
That feels like crap
outer sky
you get that feeling all the time
halcyon timber
Yeah just a stun / bleed bot for the real gatorade heroes
Sounds appropriate for a redux to spread and some refocused on single hatred like you suggested
outer sky
what happens a lot if someone will literally get to 1% hp and your sudden demise still doesnt proc and they get healed up because you didnt have combo points for an envenom
in one game I played on Mes' stream earlier I got a warlock to 360hp
and lost lol
halcyon timber
Saw the photo, that’s definitely cruddy
outer sky
yeah I'm actually really tilted right now
even though its just beta
almost every game
is like
outer sky
if you had one more global you could kill someone
outer sky
nah wouldnt change a thing
outer sky
god no
dont talk like that lol
DSM isn't on demand enough. You get it when you get it
halcyon timber
They will make a shift as the trade
The keybis figuring out what is being traded
Key is*
I wonder how far a 9% to envenom would do
Then all talents considered etc
outer sky
we need to give up on envenom
as long as sanguine blades exists it's never going to be a good button
NoTrickz will disagree
outer sky
yeah ik
halcyon timber
Stinks
outer sky
I just dont know what to do with this
they will never give us more damage
because then we'd just triple kill the enemy team every time
halcyon timber
Bump FI to 3/3 instead of 1/3 and cap the stacks maybe
outer sky
FI?
halcyon timber
Fatal intent? I think is the name?
outer sky
oh yeah
outer sky
well if they buff that then we may as well consider 20% dead which I dont think they want
outer sky
there's a fine line between triple killing the whole enemy team with ease and not doing enough damage to kill anyone
and assass is right on that line
and its really annoying
"This guy's at 2%. I can't do shit"
halcyon timber
The devs likely have something in motion already
Prob won’t seem like much but when they did a 6% tuning on some classes during df it got nuts as an example
outer sky
Fatal Intent did 586 in that lobby
halcyon timber
Hard to really say man bc they have to consider how to influence DS without making FB something ridiculous
outer sky
so it did 19.5k damage per person
halcyon timber
Freakin a
outer sky
probably less because of hunter pet and demo pets
halcyon timber
Sounds like it somehow needs to collapse on the marked target ig
If it is to punch for assass
Those count for lethal dose too?
By any chance
Also you try using the silly depths enchant? Dunno if that is amped by assassin plague damage concerning ds
outer sky
ive used it on outlaw
halcyon timber
Or wonder if the lightning strike gets buffed by assassination (as it is nature) for testing purposes
Storms enchant
outer sky
yeah just had another 0-6
topped damn
same shit
everyone almost dies
nobody actually does
cinder elm
for keybinds do most ppl just use a target arena123
or do they have seperate for like kidney 123, blind 123
having a lot of issues w targeting
outer sky
or do they have seperate for like kidney 123, blind 123
Either this or a focus macro
Technically Kidney 123 is a bit better in arena but focus is almost as good and can be used in BGs and PvE as well
So a lot of people do that too
harsh kiln
did they remove the damage increase during subtrefuge for outlaw? does it only apply to BtE from stealth now?
outer sky
did they remove the damage increase during subtrefuge for outlaw? does it only a...
they got rid of nightstalker for every spec
harsh kiln
fair enough, i was trying so hard to comprehend how to make outlaw not feel clunky while trying to use everything inside of a subtrefuge window. didn't work
outer sky
fair enough, i was trying so hard to comprehend how to make outlaw not feel clun...
the ace nerf to outlaw really feelsbad
heres another beta example everyone, 3-3 doing almost 100m more damage than the next closest dps
meters look like this
harsh kiln
BtE feels kinda redundant now tbh, killingspree pretty much lines up with every kidney so there's no need to vanish stun bte spam
situational ofc.
harsh kiln
for solo sure, idk feels like waiting 5 second for a stun into "big" damage might be worth in 3s
outer sky
I usually kidney the healer as outlaw tbh
harsh kiln
or, you could vanish spam BtE and once that's done kidney into GS/Killingspree for max damage. that way you get the 20% crit aswell.
yeah i mean all of this is theoretical and depends on situation for sure. i would also kidney healers
outer sky
or, you could vanish spam BtE and once that's done kidney into GS/Killingspree f...
20% crit?
harsh kiln
from BtE
outer sky
ah right
i tried outlaw a lot
It just feels so shit
with nerfed ace
if they revert that nerf I'll play it
harsh kiln
i've played outlaw for most of DF but i can't for the life of me remember waht it used to be. was it 10% per cp?
outer sky
and the proc chance
harsh kiln
it felt better for sure
i dont mind the proc chance though, for me it's that extra cp that made it so nice, you didn't have to spend another global to get spamming bte, granted you can still do it but you'll miss out on damage
speaking of beta, is Coup de Grace bugged atm?
outer sky
i dont mind the proc chance though, for me it's that extra cp that made it so ni...
that extra CP made it more likely you could spam BTE more often
another 5% chance
those things are kinda intertwined
outer sky
just felt smoother when you could use it back to back
i think if you get an ace proc youre still supposed to BTE
with 5 CPs
outlaw has a talent that refunds comvo points so you almost always get an extra one after a 5+ point bte
harsh kiln
Yeah, ive been doing that aswell, its annyoing if you want that extra damge though:) either way it feels clunkier now than what it did
spring bough
Does remix end at some point today or is it tomorrow on server maintenance
exotic epoch
Hey friends, question about binds here (pvp-play - Sub spec): what do y'all have on your Cheap Shot key when you're out of Stealth / Dance? I'm trying to figure out if it's at all smart to have a key bound CS/Kidney... I think it's probably dumb because you want to be able to kidney while dancing, but maybe there's a macro that can help out with Stances, so that it would only CS while in stealth and kidney if you're out of stealth and/or dancing, but I'm not sure what's the right move here. Thank you in advance for your wisdom ❤️
harsh kiln
Hey friends, question about binds here (pvp-play - Sub spec): what do y'all have...
my bars looks the same🤷♂️
exotic epoch
my bars looks the same🤷♂️
Ah yes, you probably don't have it bound to the default first action bar (the one that changes whether you're in stealth or not). Maybe I should be asking a broader question about whether it's a good or bad idea to use that default stealth/no stealth bar...
spring bough
Hey friends, question about binds here (pvp-play - Sub spec): what do y'all have...
I’d keep stealth and action bar 1 exactly the same. It makes it easy
harsh kiln
i do, but i made them have the same binds
spring bough
I keep a lot of stealth abilities off action bar 1 so when I’m in vanish bursts as outlaw I don’t need to worry about bars changing
exotic epoch
Ah roger that. I think I might be trying to "game" a bar mechanic, and that the right answer might be "just don't game it" 😄
spring bough
I’ll send you a link of my outlaw binds in a sec. Hell some keys I don’t even use not enough abilities anymore lol
spring bough
Hey friends, question about binds here (pvp-play - Sub spec): what do y'all have...
i keep it pretty simple. 1-5 and then shift keys on things. i only have two key binds with CTRL and that is for kidney, which does a shadowstep, stun, then grapples me back to my OG place, and i have that for gouge too. i know not the same as sub but gives u an idea
its nice having open buttons now lol. used to have full bars
exotic epoch
Thanks! The one thing I feel works pretty well to save a key is Sap when stealthed // Evisc during all other times (including Shadow Dance - I play mostly Subtlety). If you know of any other elegant ways to save a keybind, I always find it useful...
PS: love your CTRL macros on kidney and gouge, definitely something I need to improve on
spring bough
There’s probably a way to do them with shadowstep for sub since u get two charges. For outlaw it’s awesome healer cc. Just put them on focus and don’t even worry about where they are lol
spring bough
this sha illusion was so worth spending time on remix and this golden astral serpent too lol
hidden moth
Whats spec is looking good on tww?
last jasper
Frost mage 😂
inner tartan
hidden moth
lance lance lance xd
maybe we gotta wait for tier sets to see what gonna be good in pvp?
pearl dune
exotic epoch
Probably armor shenanigans + pve tuning.
potent pivot
Does remix end at some point today or is it tomorrow on server maintenance
It’s at like 7am tomorrow or something, you should be able to google it
potent pivot
maybe we gotta wait for tier sets to see what gonna be good in pvp?
Beta has tier sets, and outlaw is looking the best atm. But all 3 specs will still be viable
hollow carbon
Thanks! The one thing I feel works pretty well to save a key is Sap when stealth...
If I understand you right, you want to bind eviscerate and sap on same key? That will hinder you being able to eviscerate in subterfuge/dance windows. As other said already, it’s kinda smart to keep stealth bar as the same as default. Makes it less risky to mix things up and also easier to remember 🙂 btw, do you play with MMO mouse?
surreal barn
Yeh
halcyon timber
Just weird as heck that it seems off somehow
surreal barn
I mean you arent getting master assassin and buffed dance anymore - the overall damage would have to be so overtuned to reach what we had before
halcyon timber
Or its just not tuned to hijack the kit which is good but still seems odd that it did only a priests lifebar equivalent
surreal barn
Wouldn’t make sense to buff kingsbane that much
halcyon timber
Agreed
surreal barn
It’s all about them coin flips now
halcyon timber
Which isn’t bad bc then core abilities can breathe and special attacks can be tuned on their own realistically
exotic epoch
If I understand you right, you want to bind eviscerate and sap on same key? That...
I see. Thank you for the advice. Yeah I have a naga, and I feel decent at 123456+10/11/12 but 7,8,9 I’m not very reactive on. My hand is positioned well for alt as a modifier but I can’t use shift. Still, that gives me a decent enough amount of keys with aertfg and a few others to cover things. I plan to main and rebind my rogue for TWW so I’m fishing for advice 🙂
surreal barn
Every spec I’ve played so far has had one skill doing the majority of damage which from a devs perspective will be easier to tune around
outer sky
It’s about what it does in 5 seconds
the DoT is useless. Has been in pvp for a long time. KB is for the initial hit
outer sky
I mean you arent getting master assassin and buffed dance anymore - the overall ...
Master Assassin is irrelevant here because I'm macroing cold blood to it
outer sky
2 set bonus is half of what nightstalker was
outer sky
Disagree, I would get two ticks out of it
well that doesnt happen on beta
the DoT ticks for like 75k
surreal barn
I’m not referring to beta
outer sky
This was on beta
surreal barn
Yeah I know
Just explaining why kingsbane was never going to work without the tools of DF
I mean, at least in the way we used it
As big dam or an execute
halcyon timber
the DoT ticks for like 75k
Sawthe same for shadowpriests on some stuff but they also crank . The mechanical change of void torrent being much shorter channel time def gave them some punch.
Revisiting fatebound, kinda hard to think that 30% bonus damage on envenoms + lucky 7 hits, and fated tails at 6-8 stacks stinks. Thoughts rogues?
(Revisiting the discussion from last night)
Realistically, DS is likely to be revisited by the devs for assassination to get them rolling without making you guys nutso
candid tide
is sub the goto spec in tww guys?
potent pivot
Most likely going to be able to play whatever you prefer
outer sky
only reason I hesitate to go fatebound is losing that corrupt the blood damage
that constantly ticking on everyone with a rupture is nothing to sneeze at
thats 26m damage
and a lot of presure
idk
surreal barn
Does add that 2% extra dam too from it being a bleed? Or does it not count as one
halcyon timber
Its another rupture hook which is great
surreal barn
Sounds pretty good
halcyon timber
Honestly no idea if it does tie into assassinations LD
potent pivot
theoretically it should count for Lethal Dose and it's also Plague
Plague is like Nature+Shadow or some shit
candid tide
has anybody suffered pain on the forearm playing toomuch wow before
like at a specific area right at the underside of the forearm
potent pivot
i feel like playing any game or working at your PC too much can cause arm/wrist/elbow pain
outer sky
do we know for sure these havent been fixed?
potent pivot
whispyr is usually pretty quick at updating
there's more added
that's a newer one than what i have in https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/1270481497802936393
hollow carbon
I see. Thank you for the advice. Yeah I have a naga, and I feel decent at 123456...
What I found out is, that rogue is one of the harder classes to bind since you need some combos that are easy to press. For example being able to shadowstep kidney (+focus). So I have Step on Q and Kidney on R, kick on E and cheap on C, then I can pair them effortlessly with step everytime, having shift as focus modifier. Rotational abilities are on 123456, CDs on 789 for me. Being able to dance+cheap with (7+C) fast cause dance is not on GCD and so using mouse and keyboard at same time makes it really fast. btw I have sap on B, so step sap is also fast
outer sky
My step is C, kidney is 2, cheap is F, kick is 7
And then alt+those buttons is focus for them
candid tide
step should be on side mouse button u know
to give ur left hand more space to do other things
hollow carbon
My step is C, kidney is 2, cheap is F, kick is 7
How do you press alt-C-F? 👀
candid tide
My step is C, kidney is 2, cheap is F, kick is 7
7 kick is crazy since kick is pretty crucial
hollow carbon
7 kick is crazy since kick is pretty crucial
Gaming mouse with 12 side Buttons
candid tide
but ye anything works getting used too eventually
hollow carbon
alt-C is ez tho
Y but alt C and F at same time?
potent pivot
what
it isn't at the same time
he said alt-C is focus step and alt-F is focus cheap
hollow carbon
Focus step cheapshot would be that combo
candid tide
alt c works with certain keyboard, on the keychron the alt sits way to far to the left
potent pivot
some people don't use combinations
candid tide
requires the thumb to have to reach too much
potent pivot
it's not mandatory
hollow carbon
I agree
outer sky
7 kick is crazy since kick is pretty crucial
I have 1 through = under my thumb
hollow carbon
I just rebinded some stuff over the years to have the flexibility to do diff combos
potent pivot
i don't have any combinations macro'd either really
my step->whatever buttons are all close
candid tide
I have 1 through = under my thumb
oh u have 123 all rebinded somewhere else?
ah yeye
hollow carbon
It’s not a macro, it’s pressing 2 binds on focus target and while step is not on GCD you could perform it at same time kinda.
candid tide
its on your mouse
outer sky
oh u have 123 all rebinded somewhere else?
I can press them on my keyboard if I want to but I don't. My mouse has 12 buttons on the left side that correspond to 1 through =
candid tide
I can press them on my keyboard if I want to but I don't. My mouse has 12 button...
dont u have trouble turning the camera and also pressing those buttons sometimes together?
outer sky
dont u have trouble turning the camera and also pressing those buttons sometimes...
No I've never had even the slightest issue with that. Its never even crossed my mind as a potential problem until you just mentioned it
potent pivot
It’s not a macro, it’s pressing 2 binds on focus target and while step is not on...
i don't get what you mean. if you combine them into 1 button that'd be a macro
candid tide
No I've never had even the slightest issue with that. Its never even crossed my ...
ye no, u probably have a forward walking bind i guess, i dont have one i play walking forward by pressing both mouse button in
outer sky
ye no, u probably have a forward walking bind i guess, i dont have one i play wa...
I use W key but 90% of the time I'm holding down both mouse clickers
hollow carbon
i don't get what you mean. if you combine them into 1 button that'd be a macro
I’m not sure if we talk about the same or I am confused haha. He said that his step is C, cheap is F, and i wonder how he press fast like step+cheap on current target or with alt for focus
candid tide
I use W key but 90% of the time I'm holding down both mouse clickers
maybe im overthinking, should try the 12 buttons mouse again
potent pivot
maybe im overthinking, should try the 12 buttons mouse again
you just get used to it tbh
hollow carbon
maybe im overthinking, should try the 12 buttons mouse again
I needed 2 weeks or so to get used to it after years of just using keyboard and 3 mouse buttons, but it paid off big time for me
candid tide
you just get used to it tbh
when we press the side buttons on these mouses we kinda move the mouse a bit which shakes the camera a bit idk
could fk shit up in some situations i feel like, or maybe not
hollow carbon
when we press the side buttons on these mouses we kinda move the mouse a bit whi...
That’s why whaaazz shakes a lot sometimes
candid tide
i see
hollow carbon
But it doesn’t really harm anything usually
For aimed abilities I would say it’s a problem like hook or totems
potent pivot
i don't think so
i use mouse button for hook
but i don't use my mouse buttons for regular rotation
candid tide
For aimed abilities I would say it’s a problem like hook or totems
ye think so too, like aiming a big circle abilty like shadowfury or some
hollow carbon
While moving with left+right click could be weird
candid tide
but i guess it can get used too also eventually
potent pivot
While moving with left+right click could be weird
oh yeah i could see that
if he's not using W
true true
but that's an issue regardless of where you bind the retical ability
hollow carbon
Well in the end it’s mostly about muscle memory but I also got some problems with my wrists which made me love having my rotation on mouse rather than keyboard
Actually I stopped playing melee and started caster 2 years ago cause of pain in wrists+fingers from button smashing
Now I can enjoy melee again 😅
potent pivot
do most people use their mouse buttons for rotation
that sounds like it'd feel so odd to me
hollow carbon
I’m not sure, I had rewire my brain kinda. I was playing for 2 weeks like a newb
But now it feels super effortless pressing all that stuff
potent pivot
i know pikaboo does
potent pivot
i'm just so used to using keyboard 1,2,3,q,e,r,f,g for rotation
hollow carbon
Pressing W+2 always felt weird to me
spring bough
i use two mouse buttons. one is a mouseover for interrupt and the other is just for blade flurry
hollow carbon
Yeah I played just with keyboard for years
I think Reckful was just moving with left-right click and rebbound all stuff on WASD etc
potent pivot
I think Reckful was just moving with left-right click and rebbound all stuff on ...
iirc he had strafe on Z,X
hollow carbon
Oh really?! Holy f
potent pivot
you can reach a lot of buttons while moving with any binds really
sometimes you have to depend on mouse to move forward
candid tide
well if we watch what some handicapped people still pulloff
these are all normal modes in compare
warped gate
i'm just so used to using keyboard 1,2,3,q,e,r,f,g for rotation
This.
Except I used to have 4 as my gap closer too.
When I leveled this rogue, I took it as an opportunity to break the habit and try to learn some new binds and actually use this fucking Naga.
Lots of overwriting muscle memory though.
candid tide
i dont use W as forward moving, i use it for backstab or as any combo point builder depends on speccs
hollow carbon
Ye it is a bit weird at start
candid tide
wow setup is such a pain before we can sit down and truly play it optimally
potent pivot
pretty sure it has more abilities/keybinds than any other game
lime oar
Easily.
candid tide
sc2
potent pivot
SL was a really nice amount of buttons imo
candid tide
yeah maybe not
potent pivot
it's gotten a little insane now
candid tide
true
potent pivot
meanwhile DH has like 10 less abilities and half of them go off automatically
candid tide
Dragon too
marble crag
Damage
Is this on beta right? because during pre patch kingsbane still does alot of damage. Thats insane what happened
potent pivot
Is this on beta right? because during pre patch kingsbane still does alot of da...
yes that's beta
candid tide
but playing a DH is like driving a F1 car
its not simply as less buttons
u gotta learn to control it
potent pivot
that's pretty damn easy imo
warped gate
I wish I liked the aesthetics of DH because goddamn it seems piss easy.
But it’s just too damn edgy for me, same reason why I couldn’t get into DK.
lime oar
Teaching someone to competently play DH would take one session
Teaching someone to competently play rogue would take a long time
Speaks for itself
candid tide
DH is magerogue hybrid
potent pivot
Teaching someone to competently play DH would take one session
it kinda blew my mind that they play auto attack talent over pressing an ability on their own
ig it's one less global and one less ability
but it feels whack af
lime oar
Key word, feels
Nothing feels as good as rogue imo
I’ve tried every class and they just feel bland and spammy. Yeah they all have their own talent interactions and cc but…idk
surreal barn
Nothing feels as good as rogue imo
Cause you can vanish and go pee
Nothing else comes close to that freedom
last jasper
it kinda blew my mind that they play auto attack talent over pressing an ability...
Do you mean fury generator?
last jasper
And that one is the worst possible to press. So clunky and 0 impact (apart from fury). Basically the reason why demon blades lego was bis whole legion
tawdry imp
is there a list anywhere of which big defensives can be used in a stun, like divine shield and ice block?
last jasper
you only have like 5 abilities without it
I would prefer if we went to less buttons tbh
halcyon timber
is there a list anywhere of which big defensives can be used in a stun, like div...
Dunno but we do know which abilities and the growing list of bs . Might make a document for others to use .
Ps / reivival / bop / ds etc
last jasper
Ps / reivival / bop / ds etc
Resolve, Icebound
potent pivot
And that one is the worst possible to press. So clunky and 0 impact (apart from ...
i prefer more agency over my resources than less buttons
wanton breach
bit outdated list
last jasper
i prefer more agency over my resources than less buttons
I mean it feels like they fcked up the design initially
potent pivot
I mean it feels like they fcked up the design initially
yeh i mean i dunno what kinda dmg the casted ability is doing, the fury gen per minute comparison, or anything like that
it just seemed odd to me is all
potent pivot
surreal barn
I found some time last week and was like no way… need magnifying glass 😂
last jasper
yeh i mean i dunno what kinda dmg the casted ability is doing, the fury gen per ...
Basically like untalented backstab. Something like that
potent pivot
Basically like untalented backstab. Something like that
wouldn't you say that's similar to untalenting backstab for shadow techniques
i feel like no one would do it 
even if it was a more improved shadow techniques than what we have
last jasper
i feel like no one would do it <:KEKW:751122217890349116>
thats why they have 4 other abilities that generate fury
potent pivot
thats why they have 4 other abilities that generate fury
aren't they all CDs tho?
maybe with the playstyle it just doesn't matter
damn ig they use it in pve too
sheesh
last jasper
aren't they all CDs tho?
Most. Some have proc to reset. Basically most stuff they press can give fury. So having lucklaster fury generator button is odd
outer sky
Let's see: dark pact, unending resolve, barkskin, frenzied regen, survival instincts, roar of sacrifice, restoral, MW port, enraged regeneration, icebound fortitude, divine protection, BoP, divine shield, pain suppression, guardian spirit, dispersion, ice block, blink, emerald communion
I think that's all of them
potent pivot
ayo nice
last jasper
That’s more than I thought 😂
spring bough
whose taking bets on the remix swap to normal takes longer than expected tomorrow
ima laugh when we get all those tinker equips on live lmao
potent pivot
there's already a way to do that 
tawdry imp
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/ke47wo/can_someone_list_all_ccbreak...
perfect, thanks
potent pivot
perfect, thanks
check out what Star posted above as well
potent pivot
ima laugh when we get all those tinker equips on live lmao
i've seen screen shots of a DK hitting 20m on someone
rain crown
@potent pivot all comes down to tuning, makes no sense to add a button if it adds nothing, there is a ton of fury generated throughout the talent tree
tawdry imp
i'll keep a note of these somewhere
potent pivot
and my suspicion is that someone snuck that DK out of remix
last jasper
they are going to replace the gear so shoudn't be a problem with sockets from remix.
probably 😄
halcyon timber
Resolve, Icebound
Yep and more stuff
spring bough
How does one break out of remix lol
halcyon timber
Event has to end no?
potent pivot
no
potent pivot
How does one break out of remix lol
exploiting
halcyon timber
Kek
potent pivot
it's definitely been done
guides up on YT and all
i don't think you can do anything super useful though
can't q for anything
spring bough
If yall didn’t do remix mythic siege the pugs are taking any ilvl today
Get that title
jolly sierra
paragon of the mists is one of the coolest titles ive seen
potent pivot
that a remix only title or something
lime oar
Yep for doing mythic siege
spring bough
i might have to main kul tiran for season 1 just to troll and to knock back in rated blitz
potent pivot
Word
potent pivot
Only thing I’ve really done is buying the mogs off the vendors
spring bough
get the illusion if u can today
its dope
it took me like 1-2 hours last night to get it but so worth it
potent pivot
True I guess some illusions have different interactions with diff weps
spring bough
looks good on the handles lol
potent pivot
Like sinful looks sick on the blue trading post sword
Makes it look like it glow green
spring bough
one of my all time favorites is wraithchill
potent pivot
And it’s a back mounted sword
spring bough
turns every weapon that teal blue color
potent pivot
That one seems boring to me but on certain weapons it looks dope
I think I’ve got most of the illusions you can still get
Wintersgrasp/flames of rag etc
spring bough
i use it for the all white season 2 set from LFR. looks pretty cool
thats one of the top rogue sets all time i think
potent pivot
I think there’s 1 purple illusion from a dungeon I don’t have
spring bough
void edge is on my list
potent pivot
Oh and the one that looks like electricity
Very old school illusion
Forget the name atm
lime oar
Mongoose?
potent pivot
Yep
lime oar
One of the best looking enchants they made
potent pivot
Yeah it’s nice
lime oar
I think it’s drops in Kara? Idr
potent pivot
Pretty sure I had it on my old acc from those days, idr
lime oar
I need the blizzard one from Xmas event
potent pivot
Yeah that’s wintersgrasp
lime oar
Yeee
spring bough
i try every year
potent pivot
I’ve had it like 5 times
spring bough
............ i guess thats what my trade off is for 2 MC runs to get thunderfury
jolly sierra
Yeah it’s nice
primal storm is for me the spiritual successor for that illussion
potent pivot
While I was farming flames of rag
jolly sierra
ppl usually doesnt like it but tbh looks very good with silver weapons
spring bough
is the rag one still available??
jolly sierra
yes for xmas
spring bough
i gotta add that to my xmas farm
potent pivot
i got both the same year
i just hit the event on every alt everyday
dk seems hella low on binds
potent pivot
prolly going to take me a couple days of play to get used to RP and runes
spring bough
lol outlaw dont need much
1-3 is sinister/ambush, dispatch, BTE and the rest on other keys
that sinister/ambush swap macro is great for HO
and i was looking at what popo said and the PVE build drops killing spree for imp main gauche, so might take that since its passive. then another bind gone
potent pivot
i'm fine with how many binds outlaw has for the most part
i like KS and BR
the only ability i don't care much for having is GS
spring bough
i dont even bind that i just have it macrod to everything
dont even need to think about GS lol
thank god its off global
potent pivot
still not sure how i feel about them making SBS a passive
like i could understand losing a bind on sub
having ER, sepsis, and flag is just wild
spring bough
sin always felt light on binds lol
potent pivot
back in SL yeah
i was quite happy to play necro in SL because you hit SBS more often than ER/Flag
also enjoyed playing exsang
a lot
feel like i have less binds than most rogues and it's still much more than a lot of other classes
spring bough
thats the one bind i never did was seperate ones for blind. i just use a mouseover one. maybe i should start doing focus / arena ones lol
potent pivot
yeah i prefer 123blind in most cases
though really assa has a very similar amount of binds as it did in SL eh
has KB and Tea now instead of SBS and Exsang
outer sky
i dont even bind that i just have it macrod to everything
Don't macro it to "everything". You still want it for a go. It's 15% more damage that's nothing to sneeze at
I suggest macroing it to BtE if you're gunna macro it at all
And I'd def suggest leaving it on a separate bind for those 1/100 situations where you want to ghostly something else
outer sky
yeah i prefer 123blind in most cases
I used to use 123 but I switched to focus to avoid having to have even more binds for pve and RBGs
potent pivot
I used to use 123 but I switched to focus to avoid having to have even more bind...
well i've got regular blind on shift-s, i guess i could add a modifier macro to that for focus
spring bough
whats the thoughts on using airborne for BGs to disrupt flags or nah
potent pivot
since i have blind123 on alt-m4,m5,m6 it doesn't really bother me, the amount of binds i mean
potent pivot
whats the thoughts on using airborne for BGs to disrupt flags or nah
i don't see why not honestly
potent pivot
whats the thoughts on using airborne for BGs to disrupt flags or nah
you also have this
so you can even use it in the middle of team fights
just for the dmg/healing reduction
spring bough
and its 48 seconds or so for the CD with both blind talents
i might take it then no more gouge and another bind to drop lol
spring bough
maybe good with demo / bm teams then u can blind all the pets after a call to the wild lol
screw up their entire go lol
outer sky
Ehhhhhh
The only reason I'm not totally dumpstering the idea is because of the recent gouge nerfs
I mean maybe if you're playing with a mage and your gouge DRs his sheeps
Mayyyybeee
spring bough
i feel like in blitz a big team fight on flag that would be huge with blackjack too
i had a mage scream at me once cause of gouge. PTSD lol
outer sky
i feel like in blitz a big team fight on flag that would be huge with blackjack...
Be careful though you could do more harm than good since blind removes DoTs
If you do that and you have an affi lock on your team he's gunna rage so hard lol
potent pivot
tbh it could be a good defensive for outlaw
since you have no DoTs
1min CD 30% DR
spring bough
quick disorient so i can haymaker people
potent pivot
If you do that and you have an affi lock on your team he's gunna rage so hard lo...
saw whaazz take long Cloak in some war games this morning
idr which, either the mage or the affl was like "wtf is that cloak duration? i can't play the game"
outer sky
Can't play the game because of 2s longer cloak lmfao
outer sky
i dont think so, I'd only take it into boomie or mage
fire mage*
BnS gives you a second defensive
not a great one
but at least evasion isn't useless
outer sky
I find that 5s cloak is fine into casters except the ones with extremely long CD windows that dont do much outside those CDs
potent pivot
evasion DR prolly better vs burstier dmg profiles
outer sky
tbh for a 2m CD cloak should be 7s baseline at a minimum
it was a 1m CD for the longest time
potent pivot
yeah idk
outer sky
and I think for what it does compared to other defensives other classes have now, 2m is too long
potent pivot
i think our defensives are pretty good compared to other classes
but they're really kinda all or nothing
use them incorrectly or overlap with your healer and you're fucked
outer sky
I just dont think 2 defensives, neither of which can be used while stunned, one useless into casters and the other useless or unimpactful into (many) melee justifies them both being on 2m CDs
potent pivot
I just dont think 2 defensives, neither of which can be used while stunned, one ...
you could always drop one of them for Nimble Fingers
outer sky
you could always drop one of them for Nimble Fingers
huh?
last jasper
I just dont think 2 defensives, neither of which can be used while stunned, one ...
20%dr for both magic and physical is bad?
potent pivot
20%dr for both magic and physical is bad?
he means the base abilities, not the hero talent
spring bough
Yall outlaw running cheat or elusiveness this season
potent pivot
prolly cheat
spring bough
Too much burst yeah lol
potent pivot
maybe elu into very specific match ups or something
last jasper
he means the base abilities, not the hero talent
Still wouldn’t call them useless
outer sky
realistically BnS should be baseline to justify these having 2m CDs
and maybe have the hero talent buff it to 30%
but ofc I'm also of the opinion that elusiveness should be baseline as well, baked into feint
potent pivot
that would be disgustingly op
outer sky
nah if it was that OP we'd take it over this faulty cheat talent that doesnt even work half the time
potent pivot
we're the only class with a defensive like feint
potent pivot
nah if it was that OP we'd take it over this faulty cheat talent that doesnt eve...
no it would be OP specifically because you could have both if elu was baseline man
it wouldn't be fighting cheat if it was baseline
outer sky
I dont think cheat is strong enough for its inclusion into anything to make it OP
it doesnt even work
if it worked, maybe sure
potent pivot
like if you look at pve just as an example
we're the most immortal class in the game
outer sky
You take elusiveness mostly in pve though not cheat
and
cheat works in pve
if you do take it
it doesnt work in pvp
potent pivot
not always
last jasper
we're the most immortal class in the game
Basically sub was immortal for 2 seasons in pvp either
outer sky
2 r1s and thousands upon thousands of keys since legion and I dont remember it ever failing me once
it was so reliable that I would play the game differently if I had cheat
potent pivot
i've had it fail multiple times in raid
potent pivot
yeh sure
outer sky
I'd never do that in pvp
because its so unreliable
I mean, thus just happened like 3 hours ago to me
potent pivot
what if those times it "doesn't work" are just times you would've died anyway 
it doesn't make you fully immune from dmg
in that pic it proc'd
and you took more dmg n died
potent pivot
the infusion?
outer sky
Its supposed to give me an 85% wall
I've brought this up here dozens of times with screenshots for proof and people still don't believe me for some reason
potent pivot
sure but like
outer sky
idk why everyone is so opposed to our talents working properly
potent pivot
who
tf
is opposed to it
?
everyone just still thinks it's good
not that it should stay this way
outer sky
it def needs to be fixed
potent pivot
would be fuckin amazing if they fixed it
but even it being a little unreliable, it's good
have you bug reported it
i'm sure that shit has been reported a thousand times by now
outer sky
a little
steel scarab
That sort of perspective just breeds complacency though. Just because a talent is "the best option we have" isn't a reason we should just "accept that it doesn't do what it says it does"
It is pretty wild to me how hard it is to talk to an actual human that works on this game. Twenty years ago when you reported a bug, you would get a personalized whisper song-and-dance RP production of someone directly communicating with you. Now, you get, "thanks for your bug report! You will not get a response to this message."
I think the health of this game would vastly increase if Blizzard put more money into their GM and support staff.
potent pivot
That sort of perspective just breeds complacency though. Just because a talent i...
but literally who
no one is saying that
steel scarab
I know, I think it's just a bit of an implication when people say things like, "this talent doesn't work as it should" and the response is "true, but it's still good"
We don't care that it's still good, and saying it's still good minimizes the complaint
potent pivot
no, it doesn't
i dislike it just the same as everyone else, but what does typing complaints in here do?
does nothing for the fact of the matter to move forward, does it?
jolly sierra
i dislike it just the same as everyone else, but what does typing complaints in ...
finally someone is thinking like me about this lol
steel scarab
Devs don't read this at all? 😦
potent pivot
i highly doubt it
steel scarab
Also, even if they don't, isn't this a place for rogues to publicly commiserate?
Lol
potent pivot
i know some devs have talked in class discs in the past, and maybe even continue to skim over them from time to time
steel scarab
Like, I can't complain my woes about the rogue class to my coworkers or my fiance. Where else do I talk about it?
potent pivot
but those devs that were active in the class discs were class designers, not sure they have anything to do with tuning or bug fixing
potent pivot
Like, I can't complain my woes about the rogue class to my coworkers or my fianc...
it's not that i'm saying you can't do it, i'm just saying it doesn't serve any real purpose
steel scarab
I'll say this. For me it's therapeutic. Many times I've died with Cheat Death active to hit numbers that didn't make sense to me, but I always just told myself, guess I'm wrong. Starlink giving some degree of numeric proof does make my previous feelings about CD feel more validated
potent pivot
making conversation and voicing your opinions etc is fine
steel scarab
So seeing other people mentioning things (like complaints) helps validate my own thoughts and feelings about the class
I might have legitimately quit the game trying to pvp at the end of the season with how bad it felt. And you guys assured me it's prepatch or whatever and life totals would change and it's not going to be "just like this" in TWW
This was post kidney nerf
So I think in many cases, complaining leads to reassurance, which helps
jolly sierra
for me tbh feels very tiresome reading someone constantly complaining and i recall you the most in chats for just doing that instead saying something useful or just normal
steel scarab
I just stopped queueing for pvp lol
jolly sierra
and im sure im not the only one
steel scarab
Panda, complaining to you early on led to me gaining insight and understanding about how our class worked. You shed a lot of light on it for me
Had I never complained to you, I would never have hit 2400
jolly sierra
xd
steel scarab
It's just objective fact
jolly sierra
i just say
u need to change the mindset
complain less
find more solutions
is just
not healthy at all
outer sky
i mean there's no player based solution to faulty coding
jolly sierra
for example in the bottom of my heart i hate precog mechanic and wish to have it removed and buried in hell but i can't have everything in my hands just for wishing it
steel scarab
I mean, obviously I tried everything I knew to win games. Eventually you only know so much. Understand that I took a 10 year break from this game. There was a lot that changed and that I didn't know or understand, and the game does a HORRIBLE job of giving us information about how things work
jolly sierra
so i just gouge that exploiters for make them waste time casting and baiting
spring bough
You know what would be cool is if we could finally double offensive poison once again
For outlaw that is lol
steel scarab
That would open up lots of more creative options
Imagine DTB with 0 utility and 4 damage poisons lol
steel scarab
It might actually become decent in pvp
potent pivot
the issue with DTB is the -30% proc rate
so you gain Deadly/Amp and Numbing, but you proc Wound and Crippling less
marble crag
Im so pissed off. Yesterday i won all the blitz games almost. Today i have lost all. Wtf. No matter if i was top damage or botton
so frustrating
The last one we lost 1497 points to 1500
-.-
potent pivot
and Deadly does pretty bad dmg wise
so unless Envenom does actual dmg, i doubt we use DTB ever again
marble crag
I needed to vent sorry guys
i dont know what happened in blitz but as soon as i hit 1700 i got all bad teams and been pushed back to 1650
lusty lion
So uhm, is subterfuge canceling vanish a well-known bug or nah?
I just spent an hour testing it with a friend and confirmed it
When I press vanish during my subterfuge window, it breaks stealth immediatly after the 1.5sec guaranteed by vanish
potent pivot
you mean like
out of combat, if you vanish during subterfuge, the stealth will break?
lusty lion
in combat
potent pivot
yep that's definitely happening
well in combat you wouldn't stay stealthed anyway
you're only guaranteed 1.5s stealth from vanish
lusty lion
Vansih removes combat...
potent pivot
so if you have dots or get hit
lusty lion
Yea
potent pivot
not super impactful really
lusty lion
you cant /cancelaura either
potent pivot
gonna take a really weird situation for you to want to vanish during your subt window
pliant marsh
what hero talents is everyone running with sin?
potent pivot
you cant /cancelaura either
gonna report it either way tho
potent pivot
what hero talents is everyone running with sin?
deathstalker