pvp

[jolly sierra]

indeed

in yugioh for example w friends i play asian-english cards (illegals rule-wise here) and its just for the foil

maybe if you play w friends u can play confetti lol

[indigo hill]

I am 100% convinced that you're not allowed to reach 1500 rating in Blitz. Every game from 1400 i lose. My team gets wars and monks. Enemy team gets mage and DK's.

[jolly sierra]

the what, i got 1k8 in blitz by just playing a little each some time in a week

u just need to be lucky enough to get the ele in ur party

[indigo hill]

That will be nice. I get healers in pve gear instead.

[jolly sierra]

skill issue from just troll players, just try later

if u keep going u will face the same guys constantly

[indigo hill]

I dropped 100 rating on outlaw and 30 on assas so far...I'm just gonna wait till after weekly reset.

[jolly sierra]

ive seen weekly reset turns worst most of time as early rating day

ppl seems to tryhard more

but i think u need to get back in a couple of hours

and play there

[indigo hill]

I think so far late evening on weekends give the best result and for some reasons mondays.

[jolly sierra]

for me is midnight in week days

ive seen better results by far

[indigo hill]

I need to get up at 05:00 so can't play that late. 😄

[jolly sierra]

damn

F

[steel scarab]

I also hit 1800 in solo blitz, the key is, you have to win the BG for your team every single game

Good luck

[jolly sierra]

well that could be true but u need ur team too

u cant be in all sites at same time lol

if they can go decently then just bump them and win

for example a blood dk in a flag game which is not actively picking them is a wasted slot

and even if u play godly u could lose most of times

[steel scarab]

My strategy is as follows:
AB: go to blacksmith first, win that node, then rotate around
Other AB: take Market, win that node, then rotate around
Eye of the Storm: assume it's a lost cause
WSG or WSG2: hunt the enemy flag carrier

[jolly sierra]

kotmogu: dont pick anything, just ambush orbs players

AB and gilneas add u can cloak of shadows w casters and cap easily

[steel scarab]

Right, which is why Kotmogu is another lost cause. Our class is balanced around stealth, getting openers, restealthing, and so on, yet carrying the ball, you can't stealth, so you are completely reliant on teammates to carry

So if you're carrying a ball in Kotmogu, you're already probably losing

[jolly sierra]

i won a lot in kotmogu

just because i trolled the orb carriers

[steel scarab]

I probably won 50:50, it seems like a total stomp win or a stomp loss

[jolly sierra]

even i would say kotmogu is my best bg to play

[steel scarab]

Warsong I think is my highest winrate

AB is probably #2

EOTS is my worst for sure

[surreal barn]

The only one I prefer assa to sub is silvershard

[jolly sierra]

ive won decently in EOTS too

my worst one i think is ravine

[tawdry imp]

why do people form full premades for random unrated bgs

[wanton breach]

100%

[potent pivot]

because stomping on people can be fun ig

[tawdry imp]

they're all like 1500 honor level

is it still fun after presumably 20 years of solidly doing just that 🫠

[potent pivot]

[wanton breach]

if you think that's fun for more than a day, there is something wrong, probably no amount of time alone will fix that

[tawdry imp]

you would think

[jolly sierra]

maybe they just are bored and just wanted to thrash some guys in green

[waxen meteor]

all addons are dead?

[lime oar]

I mean a lot of times I just run random bg’s for fun and to kill time by myself or with a friend. And other friends log in and join up. Not everyone likes to communicate and sweat in 2s or 3s all the time.

[waxen meteor]

gladiators is surely not working now

[potent pivot]

It’s a new patch, gotta update them or wait for updates

[waxen meteor]

hmmm yeah but i thought last week was the new patch, but okay

[potent pivot]

Today is 11.0.2 with all the class tuning etc

[waxen meteor]

oh also kidney change is in

[potent pivot]

Yep

All the changes going live today are in the pins

[tawdry imp]

man, as a player new to pvp, this game is genuinely baffling at times

kidney shot needed nerfing but mashing cyclone every 0.2 seconds is fine?

[potent pivot]

Caster privileges

[surreal barn]

The kidney shot change is gonna feel weird lol

My muscle memory will have to adjust!

[lucid citrus]

The Fireheart PVP talent that mages has is doing so much damage lol

[waxen meteor]

i remember seeing somewhere kidney will be out of gcd

but it seems still on gcd

was that just a rumor

[lime oar]

That’d be wild

[stoic spruce]

There's no change

Unless

I took bait

[waxen meteor]

what u mean

[stoic spruce]

The kidney duration

It's exactly the same as before in pvp

Except cd ofc

[hexed pollen]

kidney capped just now, totally gunna get nerfed in pvp

[stoic spruce]

Kidney capped?

Is it working for yall?

[hexed pollen]

no, think the guy watching the node was laggin

[stoic spruce]

Ohh

"Lagging" ;)

[waxen meteor]

of course kidney duration doesn't chagne lol

cd is already 30

[tawdry imp]

cyclone should be a 10 second stun

[waxen meteor]

gauge duration chagned

[tawdry imp]

increase kidney to 1 minute cd

[waxen meteor]

kidney shot should be shortend against plate

you can't hit kidney through plate

3s duration it should be

[warped gate]

OH MY GOD, I'M DOING DAMAGE IN PVP AGAIN!!!

[stoic spruce]

But Zeiss said kidney change

And there's no change other than CD

[potent pivot]

Yes it was never meant to be off gcd people are weird

https://youtu.be/CU2S-KG1uig?si=S04CgN7YMviPiWwE

New dev interview out I think

I believe they talk a bit about pvp I haven’t watched it yet

[outer sky]

anyone elses gladius not working?

[potent pivot]

ye

[spring bough]

I wish we could in game DM gifs to people. I’d have so many loaded up ready to blast

[jolly sierra]

that would be sold to trolls sending edgy shit

so better to have not it

[spring bough]

My memes would consist of Tom Cruise from tropic thunder yelling at people

[jolly sierra]

edgy pvp players would send shit with too much blood

[potent pivot]

stuff like Tenor that disc uses is pretty filtered

[jolly sierra]

at least

[stoic spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/idi-naxui-gif-26345237

Imagine sending this bad boy

[spring bough]

Oh that would be a GOAT gif to send 😂

[potent pivot]

they added honor transferring

make sure you guys buy and sell something with all your honor before it's gone

[spring bough]

Battleground enemies is broke time to do something else tn 😂

[potent pivot]

[warped gate]

.. Well.. more than I did before..

[potent pivot]

@jolly sierra i have a funny clip for you in a second

https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteTransparentGoblinPanicVis-fMHR9eCLy9xYXYhb

[jolly sierra]

lets see

[spring bough]

rogue cloak capping gonna be so great for season 1 rated lol

how many people gonna complain and somehow it gets changed lol

[jolly sierra]

XD

(ty venruki now we will be nerfed again)

[potent pivot]

seems like people are realizing very quickly

rogues are at least

mage solo camping base? 3x rogues show up

people will just plan around it and not leave mage on base

[spring bough]

played against 3 rogues in EOTS the other day

we didnt cap 1 base

[jolly sierra]

maybe they didnt knew the trick

[spring bough]

1 rogue tips the scales. 2 is like prob 90% chance that team wins. 3? game over esp for flag capping games lol

[jolly sierra]

i discovered it by accident

and started trolling after that

[spring bough]

everyone going smoke bombs this season lol

[jolly sierra]

luckily now w blitz rog turned extremely good for base cap now it has 4s cast

[spring bough]

if only we had the long stun for pvp lol

would be unstoppable at it

[jolly sierra]

is still unfair to get nerfed in that sense when other specs even have aoe stuns with a little more CD and stlll as strong as kidney

[potent pivot]

i feel like queuing bgb with rogue/heal is gonna be very good

[river pollen]

Was there any other significant sub changes other than the cd increase for kidney shot? Like a slight boost/nerf to the overall damage type changes?

[potent pivot]

check the pins

[river pollen]

Oops my bad lemme see

Damn… secret technique got nerfed and eviscerate got buffed

[potent pivot]

sectech is still good to play

[river pollen]

Didnt know about the gouge cd increase either rip

[river pollen]

Ohh nice at least i dont have to change talents for now then hahah

[potent pivot]

not sure what you're running

CUQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMDAAAAAAY2mZmlpB2MGGjxMzMzMzMmtZZGjlthZYmxYMzyYAAAAYGGsYWGYALglhJkZhxA
this is the sub build most people are moving to

[vestal cape]

anyone know if feint works for thunderous roar? its a dot but an aoe stomp dot

[halcyon timber]

yes it does

The initial hit but not the dot. Dot is reduced by Deadened nerves and elusivness

[outer sky]

I omly got one comment on my post about rogue pvp feedback on beta and it's from someone who's never even been 2k 😦

[surreal barn]

I’d repost it first week of the season - everyone and their mother will be out trying to complain/defend their class

Will get a lot more views

[potent pivot]

i just realized, did you make a new post?

you should put it in the beta feedback thread i linked that day

[outer sky]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/assa-rogue-feedback-for-pvp-on-beta/1917418

Oh god no my guy

if its not rogue specific every comment will be so troll

the forums HATE rogues

[potent pivot]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-rogues/1870413

you should put it here

if you want a chance of the dev reading it

[potent pivot]

what are you talking about? it's literally a Rogue Beta Feedback thread

[outer sky]

oh is it

ok

i will post there

[potent pivot]

it's nothing but rogues posting

every class has a beta feedback thread

and some of the devs/CMs/whatever they are have even been posting responses from time to time (not in the rogue thread though from what i've heard)

but you're way more likely to have it read by a dev there

compared to just the base forums

[outer sky]

I reply to that blue post?

[potent pivot]

yes

well

[halcyon timber]

yes

[potent pivot]

you don't have to reply directly to the blue post, you can just make a post on the thread

there's 7 direct replies to the blue post, 726 replies in the thread

don't think it matters either way

[halcyon timber]

They made up their mind and people need to be adults and deal with it

[potent pivot]

wdym

[halcyon timber]

Yeah whole heartedly agree w Star though

Just a lot of incessent jibbering going on lately that helps no one in there

Not worth reading or responding to most of the time, just "I don't like X so remove it" or silly hivemind things lately.

[potent pivot]

i mean it happens, but there's plenty of well thought out feedback in there as well

[halcyon timber]

There is yes however people cannot be rational at all across the forums

[potent pivot]

but stuff like that is going to happen no matter what when they make design choices that upset people, like removing acro

ofc some people are going to ask for it back and be mad

[halcyon timber]

They also removed extended range from other true melee as well no?

[stoic spruce]

Ye

[potent pivot]

i think it's just the fact that people were used to the longer range now

[halcyon timber]

Outlaw should have kept it

[potent pivot]

the argument/discussion doesn't matter

people being pissed is always going to happen ya know what i mean

[halcyon timber]

as it was their thing originally but devs know better so trusting that and leaving it alone

[stoic spruce]

I'm already over it really

[halcyon timber]

yeah

Because you're mature

instead of HURR HURRRR HASHTAGS

Probably math reasons and other shit going on , not "fk you rogues" .

[stoic spruce]

More upset about my playstyle not being viable lol

[halcyon timber]

I'd honestly keep working on it and "making a way" if possible

might just take some really out of the box shit

some dude didn't use crackshot at all in S3 and did very very well no?

[stoic spruce]

I think it has a chance with fatebound

Idk if it drops instantly when you leave combat

[potent pivot]

@outer sky

[outer sky]

?

[potent pivot]

I liked it

[halcyon timber]

Yeah the 30% cosmic damage occurs every crit with fatebound on dispatch / envenom

then the tails coin kicks over for more dmg etc

I think your S3 tier is included in fatebound as well for the 5% or something like that? it's on a choice node w the double cold blood if I remember well.

[outer sky]

Fatebound does a lot of damage for outlaw I just dont like how RNG it is

like you may not get the damage when you need it

but I guess that's outlaw in a nutshell

Corrupt the blood justifies Deathstalker for assa by itself

[halcyon timber]

If it was an “always” thing then it couldn’t be strong by replicating that much damage (likely the reason) they aren’t going to let fatebound just shoot out additional full powered hits like that for nothing. Some dynamic play is good and there “are” ways to guarantee it i guess like during ADR / CB and would prob just require one to pay attention a little. Its what ? 83% chance on dispatch envenom to maintain the buff?

Also curious as to Vicious venoms and if that “could” give some direct punch as yeah it is requiring pooling but paired with the talent you guys to the left and shiv it “should” deal some slick hits no? 450-500k hits maybe?

Not including other talents or stuff like zoldyck right? I dunno Assassination but I am curious if that is a sacrifice to make opposed to aoe “aff warlock” style as others have called it.

[potent pivot]

i've seen someone basically get one shot by fatebound assa

but it was hyper RNG

you basically have to get every good rng proc in a row

[halcyon timber]

Hot dang

[tired crypt]

[potent pivot]

[river pollen]

Gonna check that out tonight, ty 💪

[outer sky]

they need to unnerf fatal intent in pvp

I dont like the mindset blizzard has

"we cant possibly tune this properly so that it isn't overpowered. So we'll just nerf it to the point of being irrelevant"

[jolly sierra]

the talent was just born dead

at this step

[outer sky]

what do you mean

[jolly sierra]

the talent was hard nerfed even before being released to live

[outer sky]

until just a couple days ago it was doing 0 damage because they didnt finish tuning it

[jolly sierra]

now just tickles

[outer sky]

exactly

why do we have a talent like that

there shouldnt be any talents that feel like it wouldnt matter if they didnt exist

[jolly sierra]

now is just a wasted slot

[outer sky]

yeah thats what I'm saying

youre reitterating my complaint

[jolly sierra]

basically

there are no more to add

so

[outer sky]

@potent pivot apparently kingsbane isn't being properly buffed by 2 set on beta

[potent pivot]

ic

That doesn’t do much anyway though ya?

[outer sky]

Nah it's 5% best case scenario

[potent pivot]

Yeah

Hopefully they fix it, but in reality KB needs more help than that

Might affect us if we only want 2pc though for sure

[surreal barn]

I feel like they don’t want us to play kingsbane anymore 😆

[potent pivot]

If it stays bugged we def don’t want 2pc so we’d be fully dependent on 4pc

Same

[outer sky]

4pc will be good early in the season but once we get full crafted gear it will become a dps loss

Assuming the stats on gear are the same as on beta

[halcyon timber]

What’s kb hitting for you guys + the dot component?

[outer sky]

On retail or beta?

[halcyon timber]

And fatal intent prob doesn’t do a lot bc it has no cap to it

Beta

[outer sky]

Usually around 750k ish

[halcyon timber]

They don’t want to repeat spell slinger mage tom foolery ig

[potent pivot]

The total dmg with the dot tho

[halcyon timber]

750k initial + dot?

[outer sky]

Oh the dot is a joke

[potent pivot]

That’s initial

[outer sky]

It ticks for like 85k

[halcyon timber]

Hmm

How many tickets usually?

Ticks

Corrupt the blood might be where that went

[outer sky]

Corrupt the blood procs off rupture

[halcyon timber]

Yeah but saying the shift from x to another part of the kit

They set up their math to where assassins do a total of (stuff) is what it looks like and KB prob still does 1.2-1.5m on its own no?

[outer sky]

1.2m yeah

Sounds about right

[halcyon timber]

That’s good

Teying to look at people’s cds across tbe board

Bc then maybe we can make a case for an increase

[outer sky]

I've tried kingsbane builds and non kingsbane builds and I'm about 95% sure that if beta went live right now playing kingsbane would be a mistake in most match ups

[halcyon timber]

Curious

[outer sky]

You lose insignia trinket because you want badge to line up with kingsbane. You lose deeper strat so 5% rupture and CT damage, you lose bonespike and the damage it and doomblade add via lethal dose

You lose the alacrity haste

It's just not worth it for how little kingsbane is hitting now

And if you do play kingsbane you absolutely have to play cold blood and badge

Otherwise it'll almost never crit

And it'll hit for like 300k

Which is absolutely a waste

[halcyon timber]

Question then comparing to other “dot specs”

Aff has instant shadow bolts that will hot hard

And shadow can spank

Are assassins just in a weird limbo?

[outer sky]

The only one that's comparable to assa is feral because it's the only other melee dot spec and its bites are hitting harder than kingsbane

[halcyon timber]

Bites hit hard regardless yeah

[outer sky]

And you can't have an intelligent discussion about it with anyone because inevitably it will come down to "but cheap shot spam!"

[halcyon timber]

Yeah cuz gd methhead dh cultists

Im not getting how other classes , if they aoe stun everyone for 4s but a rogue manually having to be fast + spend resources + have to put intent behind it is illegal?

Dh absolutely teabagging a healer aoe stuns then laser beams down a healer while hopped up on harbor freight wd-40 is completely ok but rogue stuff isn’t.

[outer sky]

What class has a 4s aoe stun?

[halcyon timber]

As an example

[outer sky]

And those that do, the targets have to all be in range

A rogue can stun everyone almost guaranteed

[halcyon timber]

W travel time and if someone chooses not to stop them

Deep breath is 3s too yeah?

[outer sky]

Yeah but it's a 2m CD unless they spec into 1m deep breath but to do that they lose iridescence which is a noticeable dps loss

[halcyon timber]

Theres a hero talent that makea it 30something

[outer sky]

You really only go 1m breath with a frost DK to line it up with sleet

[halcyon timber]

Think its in scale commander

[outer sky]

Oh yeah there's some CDR talent but it's not a ton of CDR

[halcyon timber]

Mass disintegrate takes care of it all heh

[outer sky]

It's kind of fine because devoker has the worst defensive toolkit in the game and is the only caster that has to play close to melee

If their damage wasn't insanely high the spec would be unplayable

I think sleep walk could stand to get nerfed slightly

But the big problem with devoker is that there's a lot of conflict of interest in terms of how you use your abilities

Like for example

Devoker can't fake kicks

Because their main damage is a channel

And their damage is the blue spell school

They have no casts other than that worth kicking

So they have to try and kite while being in casting range

[halcyon timber]

They have the time freeze for enemies still right? I didn’t fight any who were using it

Or the self time lock thing they do

[outer sky]

But the button that let's them kite is the same button that that let's them cast while moving

[halcyon timber]

2 walls at 40% + 10% from the hero ?

Yeh and warp for pres / aug right?

[outer sky]

And their wall is the same button that gives them silence and interrupt immunity

[halcyon timber]

Im genuinely asking as i dunno

[outer sky]

Talking hover

[halcyon timber]

Yeah

Hover can be a blink now too

Warp

[outer sky]

Yeah but I don't think anyone seriously plays that tree as dev

Steering breath is too good

Oh and also dev has to use their main defensive before they take any damage

Or else it does nothing

So that's fun

[halcyon timber]

What can they do whilr ccd?

[outer sky]

Nothing

They're like rogues and monks in that respect

Can be 100-0d in a stun

Can't press shit

[halcyon timber]

Better kite well

Renewing blaze is one big heal yeah? Like 1min cd ?

[outer sky]

It's either 1m or 1.5m.

Depends how you spec

But

[halcyon timber]

And stacking the fire breath thing can’t remember the name atm

[outer sky]

All it does

[halcyon timber]

Reverse dmg taken

[outer sky]

Is turn the damage you take into a hot

That heals you back

But you can easily die through it

[halcyon timber]

Better than nothing

[outer sky]

And you have to use it preemptively

Yeah

And scales is a 30% wall not 40

[halcyon timber]

Sound like they def gotta be skilled

Not just afk hur hur

[outer sky]

Most annoying thing

Being so close to melee unlike other casters

And having nothing to fake kicks with

[halcyon timber]

Thats their tax for being mobile sobe lizards

[outer sky]

While your kiting ability is the same button that let's you cast while moving

[halcyon timber]

Ig

[outer sky]

So its like

"Do i want to do damage now or stay alive later cuz both ain't happening"

Actually kind of a shit design tbh

[twilit swan]

Hello!

New to rogue wanted to know if anyone could assist

[outer sky]

Sure what's up

[halcyon timber]

Welcome welcome

[twilit swan]

So i just got fully honored gear

thanks for the welcomes

[stoic spruce]

Depends on if you like salad

[twilit swan]

So im just trying to understand the gist of sub

at the most basic level

then ill work from there

i really im so lost

[twilit swan]

I like meat 😮

[stoic spruce]

Are you brand spankin new to the spec?

[twilit swan]

yesssir

or mam

but yeah

i wanna get into pvp tho

seems so cool

class and spec seem so cool

[outer sky]

D'awww he's so new and optimistic

Give it a few months lol

[potent pivot]

[stoic spruce]

I suggest running a couple dungeons first to get a feel for how the spec works mechanically. I know you don't want to but pvp isn't a great place to learn a class

It's so miserable

Def fun though

[halcyon timber]

Bad ass homemade burger hale yeh

Or ribs

[stoic spruce]

You can like salads and burgers

[twilit swan]

damn

[halcyon timber]

Both os good meme

[twilit swan]

i wanted to hop into bgs

i mean i know i build with shadowstrike

and then use eviscrate right

[halcyon timber]

Take your time and be patient

[stoic spruce]

You can hop into bgs but I wouldn't recommend. I ain't gonna make you lol

[halcyon timber]

Big learning curve to rogue stuff

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/caveman-21470194.jpg

This is NOT us

[twilit swan]

lmaooo

dude the class is definitely complex

any guides you recommend ?

reccomend*

[stoic spruce]

Us :)

Unironically

Also dhadenox

Shadenox

[waxen meteor]

pfff, did a skirmish with a sub rogue

[stoic spruce]

It was him!

[waxen meteor]

we both went to healer and kidney him at same time

[twilit swan]

so basic rotation should look like ?

[stoic spruce]

That's so romantic

"I reached down to pick up my pencil and our hands touch" ahh post

[halcyon timber]

XD

[stoic spruce]

That's a forbidden term here

[waxen meteor]

do we have the luxury to run deadly in tww?

[halcyon timber]

More of a priority system , not dr’ing crap, and doing damage in between

[waxen meteor]

or will be slow + wound again

[twilit swan]

or i guess the prio for doing dmg

[outer sky]

The #1 biggest mistake you'll make as a new sub rogue is leaving gaps in your stun lock. Sit at a training dummy practicing the rotation while keeping the target constantly stunned by cheap shot.

[twilit swan]

so what would the prio be for dmg ?

[outer sky]

The prio?

[twilit swan]

priority abilities

like lets say i stun someone right

what follows

[outer sky]

With or without shadow blades?

[twilit swan]

uh i guess with and without

thats where i get confused

[waxen meteor]

you are not getting where tryingg to understand 'priority' for sub...

[twilit swan]

i have shadow blades and dance and symbols

which one do i click first lol

[outer sky]

The actual damage rotation is pretty simple. Build combo points with shadow strike or backstab, spend them on eviscerate

Keep rupture up outside your CDs

Press sepsis when you can

[waxen meteor]

with blade on, you use stun/ss to build -> fisnih -> build -> fisnih

does vainish have bug now on live?

it seems i am out of vanish consistantly

[halcyon timber]

Stealth and vanish break constantly

[outer sky]

Your burst rotation with cheap shots is shadow blades>shadow dance/symbols of death/thistle tea/badge trinket>cheap shot>secret technique>sepsis>eviscerate>cheap shot>eviscerate>cheap shot>eviscerate

[halcyon timber]

Likely intended at this point /shrug

I just mash my sap button nonstop to stealth

[outer sky]

Without blades you won't get as many eviscerates

Just make sure the target is stunned and don't leave a gap and build points with shadowstrike and spend them on secret technique if it's off CD or eviscerates of it's not

Use symbols of death, thistle tea, and your badge trinket on CD with shadow dance

[halcyon timber]

Pretty much what they other kids are saying and shadow technique stacks fill some points. Depends on how youre talented too. Shadowcraft can allow for you to do 2 finishers back to back depending on conditions met etc .

[potent pivot]

missing sepsis

sepsis should replace that first strike

[outer sky]

Idk. Sepsis does more damage over time but I think in a stun lock with blades if you're going for maximum burst you forgo sepsis until after your stun lock ends

[potent pivot]

you're also pressing it for DM

[outer sky]

Alright, I'm 50/50 but I'll edit it

[twilit swan]

appreciate the help fellas

gonna do some dungs and bgs

is macroing them together a bad idea?

like the badge and shadow dance

and tea

[potent pivot]

i've even been seeing blades->gouge->dance/symbols->kidney->sepsis->secret tech->strike->evis etc

can sorta move kidney around a global, and obviously cheap shot without gapping in there

[outer sky]

To get you started in arena you can script every go by building combo points for a kidney shot, kidneying the healer, dancing, and cheap shot locking your kill target

Sub rogue can cover every one if it's goes by itself

[halcyon timber]

Wouldn’t recommend that at all

[outer sky]

There's many ways to do it but kidney healer and cheap dps is a great place to start

The only thing you want to macro is your badge trinket to shadow dance

[potent pivot]

if i macro it i usually put badge on symbols

[outer sky]

And if sub ever plays cold blood again it's usually safe to macro it to secret tech

[outer sky]

That's fine too.

I almost never symbols without dance or vice versa

[potent pivot]

that way if i for some reason fuck up my dances i don't badge a solo dance w/o symbols at least

[outer sky]

Yeah that makes sense

[potent pivot]

sometimes you get forced to dance defensively

to mostly cc

wouldn't want to send trinket in that scenario

[outer sky]

Could maybe get away with macroing tea to symbols too but I personally wouldn't

[potent pivot]

i think tea to blades is safe

but you still need another bind for tea

[outer sky]

Yeah ofc in case you need to press it for energy

[potent pivot]

yeah

[surreal barn]

I miss acro strikes

D:

[outer sky]

I have mixed feelings about the change

they swapped the positions of acro and recup on the class tree right?

I didn't like taking acro last season, although I did anyway, because it kept me from getting to cold blood

and I always wanted to play cold blood with Kingsbane

Cold Blood could honestly use a buff

I feel like I'm very much in the minority here but I really like that ability

Maybe also make it cause whatever ability you proc it with to do 10% increased damage

[halcyon timber]

I dig it just like the old days. Was always satisfying with an eff you hard hit

[potent pivot]

i'm of the opinion the it shouldn't exist personally, feels even more out of place now that MfD is gone

i like what it does, i just don't like it as a talent

if that makes any sense

[outer sky]

i mean if they make it baseline all the better

[stoic spruce]

I really don't want to fit CB into outlaw

[potent pivot]

i mean even if it were moved lower in the tree, i think it should be somewhat passive

[stoic spruce]

That's just me

[potent pivot]

a talent like, after X, your next X is guaranteed to crit

[stoic spruce]

Unless we got old gsw gameplay back

[potent pivot]

"after pressing shiv, your next nature ability is guaranteed to crit"

i get that's similar to just macroing it to KB

but it's just a weird talent to have as a cap stone talent

[outer sky]

that would be even better because shiv is a shorter CD

[potent pivot]

well they could also give the passive an internal CD

1 procs per minute etc

that prolly starts to get a little unintuitive

but even so, if shiv did that right now, envenom/KB likely still wouldn't do enough dmg to matter

i'm genuinely hoping that outlaw and sub are good this season because i cba playing pve assa

[outer sky]

whats the best healer for 2s on retail rn?

[surreal barn]

Cold blood feels wimpy because crits feel wimpy

Maybe just revert that crit change with these mongo health pools we about to have

[potent pivot]

with all the tuning that dropped i don't think anyone knows the answer to that rn

rdru caught some nerfs i know that much

i imagine pres is good

[halcyon timber]

Darkest night is a cold blood and that is pretty sick when that hits

[outer sky]

except it's stuck to envenom

put that shit on KB

[jolly sierra]

DFA with darkest is like a gift

u can use it w evis as sub too tho

should hit like a truck

if u are not going trickster

[outer sky]

too bad it takes half your stun lock to hit

[potent pivot]

most of the dfa's i saw nahj do weren't even into stuns really

don't think he was using it as part of his main burst

[jolly sierra]

maybe he is using it on CD?

[potent pivot]

he just used it kinda randomly when he had darkest night

[jolly sierra]

YE

basically

lets see the positive side

[potent pivot]

works as a gap closer too

[jolly sierra]

we can hit like a fucking truck every 30s

[potent pivot]

kinda

[jolly sierra]

so we can still desync their trinks by a lot

[surreal barn]

DFA still gap closer

[jolly sierra]

is a very gap closer

but now is earning a lot of relevance thanks to darkest night

[potent pivot]

play dfa into frost mages star

[jolly sierra]

or into a stunned monk with transfer

https://tenor.com/view/rosie-animal-crossing-evil-laugh-gif-26935174

[surreal barn]

DFA when mages shimmer is so satisfying

[jolly sierra]

ye lol

or when the mage tries to cc

[stoic spruce]

Cc?

Mage??

[outer sky]

lmfao any chance the sub rogue I just beat in 2s on retail is in here? if so I'm sorry man I had no idea that kingsbane was going to hit you for 700k lol

[outer sky]

i used to do that all the time but the range is still too short I think. It didnt provide as much value as I thought it would

[halcyon timber]

I think its 15 yards to activate as max

Good to avoid kamakaze stormbolts too heh

[outer sky]

yeah it has some cheeky usages like that

which i actually don't like about the ability tbh

there's no reason a targeted spell shouldnt hit you because you DFAd lol

but w/e I'll tae it

take*

[halcyon timber]

Glimpse / bladestorm too

The bladestorming out of stuns in df drove me nuts

[potent pivot]

i think interactions like that are sick

meld, dfa, bladestorm, etc

[outer sky]

i think we got nerfed

[halcyon timber]

Beta up now?

Im studying for exam at 7 am atm

[outer sky]

yeah its up

im doing no damage

[halcyon timber]

Have an SS recap?

Thats fked

[potent pivot]

i don't think so

[outer sky]

no we did

100%

[wise crown]

Hello, I'm somewhat new to outlaw and want to pvp. Do we know if there's a viable build without crackshot in tww? I'm not a fan personally.

[potent pivot]

we can't really predict what we'll be playing in tww

there could still be more tuning to come etc

but i kinda doubt we don't play with crackshot

[potent pivot]

pics or didn't happen

because i'm big doubtin rn

[stoic spruce]

There's a chance at best with fatebound but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

[potent pivot]

the only thing i can think of is if some bugs were fixed today

that make us do less dmg

[stoic spruce]

Trust me buddy I'm in the same boat lol

[potent pivot]

there's been no nerfs

[stoic spruce]

I feel like resident crackshot hater

[outer sky]

sec I'll send

[potent pivot]

and i'll see if i can find out about any bug fixes

subterfuge bug was fixed last night apparently

the one i told you about subterfuge giving +50% extra garrote damage it wasn't supposed to have

subterfuge was double dipping improved garrote

[outer sky]

that may be it

[wise crown]

Hopes are at 4/10. Thank you. Was hoping the ace pvp mod would help with non crackshot builds.

[outer sky]

This is my damage breakdown now

[potent pivot]

yeah that's just subterfuge being fixed

[outer sky]

I used to have 300-400k garrote ticks, at least 250k

well thats a nerf

a big nerf

[stoic spruce]

Too high. 3/10

[outer sky]

I'm doing way less damage

I mean that's it

rip

[potent pivot]

but it's not

a nerf

like this was expected

[outer sky]

It functions as one. All of the testing ive done on beta so far has been invalidated

I feel like I dont have half the pressure I had before

thats what made me look

[potent pivot]

well yeah i mean that's how beta works

[outer sky]

"why is nothing dying"

[potent pivot]

everything can change every week

[outer sky]

okay well assass is dead

[potent pivot]

we'll see at launch

[halcyon timber]

Like arcane mage revert on their bug ha

[outer sky]

i mean yikes that one really hurt

its night and day

[halcyon timber]

Could be silver lining

[outer sky]

theyre not going to compensate with buffs dude

[halcyon timber]

They could shift stuff to more direct punch

Yeah agreed

Esp when it was a bug

Whats envenom doing ?

The injection talent + 7cb and + other stuff feel any good at least?

[outer sky]

nah envenon doesnt do shit

it does what it does on retail

[halcyon timber]

Shit sticks

[outer sky]

I wasnt gunna drink tonight but I may reconsider

[halcyon timber]

Try screwing w amp just for research purposes?

[outer sky]

Ive already done that

like a million times

ive tested every build

[halcyon timber]

Inb4 supatease rogue propaganda vids

[outer sky]

theyre all terrible

[halcyon timber]

Dang man

[potent pivot]

[halcyon timber]

Well at least fishing trip is otw

[potent pivot]

i don't think we're there yet bro

[halcyon timber]

No but soon so star gets to have fun doing that

[potent pivot]

we've still got a little over a week

they haven't announced that beta is release candidate yet i'm pretty sure

[halcyon timber]

Yeh like 9 days plus 1 wk for season start

Yeh true

[outer sky]

@potent pivot you play any outlaw?

Any big outlaw gamers here?

[ocean silo]

mount from stealth bug fixed

[stoic spruce]

I'm big

Oh you mean

Like

Popular

Nvm

[outer sky]

I mean good at outlaw

[halcyon timber]

Sinnen and Adoringfan are solid but they are probably asleep atm

Not to throw out names but id recommend them for sure

[potent pivot]

yea sup

[outer sky]

1. Think it's safe to macro GS and KS together?
2. What's the outlaw haste situation like?

[potent pivot]

that'd kinda force you to use KS at the beginning of your burst

personally i'd keep em separate

as far as the haste goes

!stats

[lethal roost]

These are the recommended stat priorities for each spec in PvP. Please keep in mind that having suboptimal stats on some pieces such as tier set pieces is not the end of the world.

Subtlety: Vers>Mastery>Crit>Haste
Assassination: Vers>Mastery>Haste=/=Crit
Outlaw: Vers>Haste=/=Crit>Mastery
You likely want to stack at least 25% Haste on Outlaw for 0.8s GCD during ADR.

[potent pivot]

you need like ~20% haste from gear to have that haste +haste from talents get you .8s gcd in ADR afaik

whether or not thats going to be the meta idk

.8s gcd in ADR is 1 extra global in a kidney

[outer sky]

maybe I just macro it to BtE

@potent pivot now little crit should we play to get that much haste?

[potent pivot]

you already got some gear?

i'm not sure of the distribution on the gear on beta

if we're stacking haste to ~20 then it should basically be in this order of priority:
~20% haste > mastery =/= crit

if we do run the haste, the jury's still out on whether or not we want more crit or mast

barely anyone has actually been testing outlaw that i've seen

honestly i think so few people pvp'ed as outlaw in DF in general

we went from stacking crit, to stacking mastery, then back to crit/a mix of both

[grave basin]

@outer sky what do you think about the state of WW atm

Man after thinking about all the cool stuff ww had in the past, feels like this version is the most boring to ever exist

[outer sky]

it's abysmal. worst it's been in years

[grave basin]

Like in wod? We had the jump cancel chi torpedo burst

[outer sky]

yeah but I'm talking beta

[grave basin]

In SL bonedust sweep one shot

In S1 SL we clipped the fist tick with wdp and weapons of order

No more fist stun

Like ??? I feel like a fury warrior just pressing W all game

[outer sky]

@potent pivot if we cant get to 20% haste do we just not care about haste?

[potent pivot]

yeah i know i meant gear on beta

idk what the stat distribution looks like when you have 20% haste

you can't get it?

even with crafted gear?

[outer sky]

not without losing a ton of vers

remember pvp gear is vers heavy

[potent pivot]

how much vers are you at

and how much haste from conq gear

basically the thing that will matter the most is if outlaw can do any meaningful damage in a stun

for that extra global to matter

like obviously it's not going to be doing sub damage in a kidney right

so keep that in mind

[outer sky]

8% haste with insignia 6% with badge if I dont run haste pvp gear

[potent pivot]

could you do ss like before with assa

stats w/o haste conq gear
stats w/ haste conq gear

using insig for the haste is def fine imo

[outer sky]

wait what do you mean

you lost me

[potent pivot]

like you sent screen shots of your stats on assa w/ and w/o tier set remember

i just want to see the total stat distribution with no haste conq gear vs with, kinda hard to make a decision on if it's worth or not w/o seeing

[outer sky]

oh sure

1m

[potent pivot]

you're also going to have Alacrity and Take em by Surprise

[outer sky]

Stats in full haste gear, no buffs

Stats in full crit gear, no buffs

[potent pivot]

i'd give that a shot

and just try to vanish your ADR

for TebS

[outer sky]

you mean for UHUH?

oh ok

I mean I usually vanish on CD

for UHUH and so it can start getting CDR

I rarely hold it

[potent pivot]

i hate this acronym with ever fiber of my being

why can it not just be UU

[outer sky]

I dont make the rules :/

[potent pivot]

haha

nah i know everyone calls it UHUH i just don't get it

[potent pivot]

wdym so it can get cdr

oh i think i see what you mean

for vanish cdr

[potent pivot]

basically what i'd do:
RtB/ADR as you're leaving the gate like usual ->
but when you open, after TebS is wearing off, vanish the remainder of your ADR

so it's pretty normal

just make sure you're entire first ADR gets TebS

then when you ADR later just make sure your TebS covers your kidney

make sense?

[potent pivot]

I SEE YOU TOPPING THE METER BUD

was 700k a second ago

[outer sky]

??

whos streaming this lol

[potent pivot]

that's cdew on priest again

he likes to flame you

dickhead lmao

[outer sky]

oh jfc lol

[potent pivot]

outlaw's pumping my boy

we're back

[outer sky]

thats with the haste gear

[potent pivot]

yeah

i bet it felt really good too

it looked like it did

[outer sky]

yeah it did

breakdown if you're curious

[potent pivot]

what are KS hits hitting for

[outer sky]

KS damage

[potent pivot]

nice

[outer sky]

I kinda just send KS on CD outside of crackshot

sometimes I use it defensively though like if I'm about to eat a big chaos bolt. i did that a couple times in that last lobby

[potent pivot]

the fact you get ~3sec of delayed damage pretty often it nice

[outer sky]

I miss blade rush though, man

[potent pivot]

why are you not playing BR?

[outer sky]

You cant get to it

[potent pivot]

huh

send me a ss of your talents

[potent pivot]

wdym can't get to it

it's right there

[outer sky]

you have to drop Count the Odds

[potent pivot]

why are you playing Sleight

[outer sky]

i dont see anything better

dropping slight doesnt get you br

[potent pivot]

you should def take SLaB over FLaBF

[potent pivot]

?

it literally does

unless i'm fried

[potent pivot]

i just swapped BR->sleight on my tree

something else is off

hang on

you're not taking FF

[outer sky]

yeah I'm not

[potent pivot]

i would drop Sleight for FF

100%

and i'd drop CtO for BR when i want BR

[outer sky]

I pretty much always want BR lol

but i've seen several outlaw rogues over the last month or so of beta testing

none of them take BR

they all take count

[potent pivot]

that's weird because nothing has really changed about CtO i don't think

and not many ran it in s4

[outer sky]

they changed the tree around

count used to compete with KS

thats why nobody took it

[potent pivot]

ah cto was buffed

10%->15%

people were probably just testing it

[outer sky]

I mostly just use BR for the mobility

[potent pivot]

yeah ik'

[outer sky]

but without slight and count I feel like my rolls are gunna be pretty shit lol

[potent pivot]

i don't think so

we didn't run either in s4

hell i don't think we ran either all of DF

[outer sky]

maybe I take count into melee cleaves

and BR into casters

[potent pivot]

into anything that's going to kite you yeah

LD is already giving you match rolls during ADR

that's why i def say FF>sleight

every other melee giving you 10 energy is very strong

insane for energy outside of ADR

i can see an argument for running cto

i always liked it in pve

[outer sky]

yeah

also

Idk why

maybe im trolling

[potent pivot]

procing off of all your melee abilties makes it happen more often

[outer sky]

but I dont like smokebomb as outlaw

I usually lock in enduring brawler and take your cut

[potent pivot]

take your cut really?

[outer sky]

and take disarm into melee, cloak into assa or feral

yeah

it counts you as an ally

so you get the buff too

10% haste every time you roll

[potent pivot]

yeah

but

does it proc off SnD getting refreshed by other shit

or only SnD hard casts

[outer sky]

what

it procs off roll the bones

[potent pivot]

slice and rtb

[outer sky]

do you see the screenshot

[potent pivot]

kek

[outer sky]

id ignore that

[potent pivot]

yeah idk why it's like that

maybe old shit

[outer sky]

but yeah 10% haste every time you roll isnt bad

[potent pivot]

i've never really played it

[outer sky]

and also I like Turn the tables into some shit

[potent pivot]

i always use disarm/cloak | enduring | bomb

[outer sky]

10% extra damage is nothing to sneeze at

[potent pivot]

i'd run that over take your cut

sure

[outer sky]

come out of an axe toss, ghostly, vanish for crack shot and now you're doing 25% more damage

I also like boarding party into frost mages and WW monks

[potent pivot]

now that i've never even heard

maybe it's needed into frost now

but lol

[outer sky]

idk man take your cut has some pretty juicy uptime

thats a lot of haste

[potent pivot]

ik

but haste isn't doing very much for you

unless you're in ADR

remember that

[outer sky]

I'm in ADR a lot though

[potent pivot]

i mean i guess

[outer sky]

half the game

[potent pivot]

yeh

but also

you already kinda have haste covered

[steel scarab]

Good news boys

Today I did my first solo shuffle in over a month

I was last rated 2380 so I got put against a lobby of 2500+ people

I went 0-6

30 second kidney fucking sucks

I had no DR tracker

And I specced into Dragon Tempered Blades

And I wore 15% haste gear

And I'm human and was wearing no pvp trinket

And I had "extra combat text" enabled so a bunch of numbers and words were scrolling over my entire UI

At the end of the game, the shaman healer said, "God you're fucking bad"

Somehow I lost 0 rating

Overall a 10/10 experience

[potent pivot]

you have vanish for every adr no?

i guess you could try to rtb before ADR

then vanish late into ADR

to try and cover every ADR

[outer sky]

i dont think about it like that. I ADR and vanish more or less on CD

[potent pivot]

you just won't want to if you have like really insane rolls at the time

[outer sky]

I even ADR during crackshot while I already have ADR rolling

for the combo points

[potent pivot]

the shortened gcd is definitely something you want to play around if running the haste

its pretty busted to have the shortened gcd

[outer sky]

shortened by what 0.2s?

[potent pivot]

yea

[outer sky]

I mean yeah

I just dont like having it off CD

because then im wasting restless blades

[potent pivot]

when would you ever have it off cd

[outer sky]

sorry

on CD*

no

I was right

off CD

like if I dont have a vanish

but ADR comes off CD

[potent pivot]

having what off cd exactly

[outer sky]

I hate holding it

AR

[potent pivot]

you should be able to vanish every adr no?

[outer sky]

yeah

but ADR lasts longer than my vanishes

[potent pivot]

so why would you hold

[outer sky]

like I can go through 2 vanishes

and even meld

[potent pivot]

just don't vanish on cd

[outer sky]

before AR is half over

[potent pivot]

yeah don't do that lol

[outer sky]

why not? The faster you use them the faster you get them back

[potent pivot]

only 1 charge is on CD at a time bro

if you always have 1 on CD it's the same

[outer sky]

right, yeah

[potent pivot]

so you only ever need to use 1 with every ADR

using 1 vanish at the beginning of the match to cover the end of your first ADR

then 1 vanish with every ADR

you'll always have it on CD getting value from restless

[outer sky]

so when the gates open I ADR, SnD, and roll

then I open, do my crackshot burst

[potent pivot]

then if you rtb before ADR comes off CD to cover the first half

[outer sky]

get full CPs

KS

[potent pivot]

vanish halfway through

[outer sky]

then vanish for another crackshot at max CPs

[potent pivot]

are you running a pve WA

and do you know how to edit WAs

at all

because we can make this really simple

if your ADR wa starts glowing or something when ~10-11 sec remain you'll know when to vanish every time

etc

[potent pivot]

yeah and i'd delay the roll a little bit, like as you're running in

[outer sky]

yeah I have a PVE weakaura

but nothing on it glows besides pistol shot when I get a proc

[cinder elm]

is outlaw/loaded dice nerfed in pvp

i was rerolling with tierset and getting one of the buffs with 15 sec

and the other ones the usual 30-38

[potent pivot]

you can edit it to do so

[potent pivot]

it's not nerfed in pvp no

[cinder elm]

wish i was recording it, weird

[potent pivot]

outlaw almost always has some weird rtb bugs

[outer sky]

i just remembered another reason I like vanishing as often as possible

[potent pivot]

tier is also pretty bad idk if we're going to use it

[cinder elm]

current tier?

idk the new tierset

[potent pivot]

oh you're talking about live

mb

[cinder elm]

ngl didnt even think of beta pvp

[potent pivot]

but you also said loaded dice

loaded dice is adr giving next rtb at least 2 buffs

[cinder elm]

yah ik but i mentioned it incase there might have been a bug with it in pvp

since ik there are weird nerfs to specs in pvp

[outer sky]

@potent pivot ADR doesn't lose duration during subterfuge so by being in subterfuge as much as possible during ADR youll maximize ADR uptime because youll be getting it back during more windows where its not losing duration

[potent pivot]

yes ik

but you still want to do the same thing

like you lose nothing from lining it up properly, only gain

having 2 vanish charges is effectively the same thing as having 1 extra vanish cast in an entire game

you don't gain multiple casts by sending them on CD

like if you want to blow them both for dps you can

it's not going to fuck anything up really

as long as you stick to the rtb->ADR->vanish script

[cinder elm]

does anyone play kir in pvp

never tried ho

[potent pivot]

yeah i don't remember what would be giving you 15 second buffs honestly

CtO if you're even running it gives 8s

[potent pivot]

nah it's pretty hyper dogshit in pvp

[cinder elm]

yah i think it legit bugged

[outer sky]

you gain ADR uptime

[cinder elm]

ive never noticed something weird with rtb other than that bug where sometimes they stay behind

[potent pivot]

you gain the same amount of ADR uptime as you would doing it properly is what i'm saying

[outer sky]

you say the proper way is to vanish once per ADR?

[potent pivot]

that's how i'd do it ye

[outer sky]

then my way would give you more ADR uptime

[potent pivot]

it wouldn't

[outer sky]

which may not be a big deal idk

[potent pivot]

if you double vanish the first or second ADR that's the only ADR you'll ever double vanish

you gain 6 seconds of ADR

in the entire match

which you would get anyway

basically what i'm saying is you keep the second vanish banked

you can then choose to use it defensively OR offensively if you really need it to lock in a kill

the key point is to have a vanish for every ADR

that's the most important part imo

[outer sky]

meld works too right?

[potent pivot]

if you want to send both in the ope, by all means

i just don't think it's the play

[outer sky]

with all the CDR we have its tough not to have a vanish or meld for at least some part of your ADR

like evn if vanish comes up with 1s left on ADR

thats still fine

cuz UU

[potent pivot]

it's not though

because you're losing Take em by Surprise+ADR uptime

[outer sky]

do you really need it though? Like you said we kinda have haste covered

I'll for sure have alacrity stacks

[potent pivot]

this was a dumb statement

from me

[cinder elm]

ok i got a clip

so it must be normal lol

[potent pivot]

before i actually thought about it

[outer sky]

so take your cut is good now?

[potent pivot]

that's why i started saying you could rtb before ADR

then vanish midway through ADR

so you have the haste on the entire ADR

[outer sky]

yeah but you wouldnt want to do that if you have a good roll

[potent pivot]

exactly right

when i said we had it covered i was thinking like

you wouldn't care about the rtb haste outside ADR really

and you wouldn't need to stack the take em by surprise haste with take your cut's haste

[outer sky]

wouldnt it kinda smooth things out a bit?

[potent pivot]

does that make any sense

[outer sky]

to have that haste outside of ADR

[potent pivot]

haste does almost nothing for you

like outside of ADR it's utter dogshit

i guess now faster melee swings kinda play into FF

so it's not as bad as it used to be