if i dont fail and practise i dont get better
#pvp
potent pivot
no i'm saying why are you mad about it lol
jolly sierra
lemme show u the big proof
potent pivot
i unsubbed for all of s4
jolly sierra
this its me in last 3 xps
jolly sierra
i think in TWW can get elite in a sustained way
potent pivot
R1 this season was 2400
yeah but 2.4 was also way more difficult to hit than previous seasons
jolly sierra
shuffle helped a lot w progress
stoic spruce
yeah but 2.4 was also way more difficult to hit than previous seasons
Sure, but I'm stubborn and I know how to play.
"Know"
potent pivot
it was also 2650
outer sky
I wish theyd buff dampening in 3v3 so it's similar to how it is in SS
potent pivot
for r1 outlaw shuffle
outer sky
SS pacing feels so much better
stoic spruce
Ez
potent pivot
stuff like that rarely changes in 3v3 i think
potent pivot
i think there's better ways to go about it though
like through armor/stamina/healing tuning
and they are going to complete opposite direction with that shit lmao
more health, more armor, more healing
jolly sierra
i rlly hate bgs tbh with no damp
outer sky
it's becoming the norm each season, especially now that there's less emphasis on setting up kills, for games to ritualistically come down to mana. I feel like a game should only come down to mana in rare situations where both teams basically play perfectly. Not something that should be happening damn near every game
jolly sierra
that is one reason i dont assault healers in outdoor
potent pivot
it's becoming the norm each season, especially now that there's less emphasis on...
yeah i agree
it's really fucking boring
i feel like all the competitive players also agree and dislike the changes blizzard has been making
but our opinions kinda put us in the minority
the vast amount of players want pvp to basically be pve
otherwise blizzard's mentality lately doesn't make sense
outer sky
where do they even get that feedback from
potent pivot
forums n shit
outer sky
the forums is just the same 5 or 6 people shit talking each other
potent pivot
prolly reading other forums like reddit etc as well
i know sometimes the class designers read the class discords
idk about the pvp team
outer sky
idk about the pvp team
if they even have one lol
potent pivot
they definitely have one
fallen scaffold
i dontt hink they do
outer sky
do they actually play the game though
fallen scaffold
if they do its just a side project
potent pivot
no
fallen scaffold
not their main job description
potent pivot
they have dedicated pvp devs
fallen scaffold
that are also devs for some other part of game i take it
potent pivot
i do believe some are also general combat devs
but iirc there are some that specifically focus on pvp alone
outer sky
"Dammit Preston! You showed up to work drunk again!?!? Ughh fuck it just go work on the arena balancing then."
potent pivot
like the head pvp dev
has done interviews and shit in the past
so they definitely exist 100%
jolly sierra
who succeded holinka?
potent pivot
idr
jolly sierra
if we know who is maybe we can ask for feedback
but i dont recall any public announcement about his replacement
potent pivot
yeah i don't think that has ever been made public
also think holinka was the last actual pvp dev to do interviews
now they have certain people do all the PR stuff
jolly sierra
neither danuser departing, ppl just noticed it and announced
outer sky
I mean what Notrickz is saying is true though. If the majority of the player base wants less CC, less having to worry about DRs, less thoughtfulness into how they use their trinket, etc etc then thats what the devs are going to design
jolly sierra
imo it started to turn into downfall after they did that change w ccs
cuz it didnt solved anything
potent pivot
but it is what it is
potent pivot
only thing we can try to do is give them feedback
jolly sierra
cuz poor opinions just leads to poor consequences
if they just heards the pvp battlemaster with 0 CR cuz only played in regular BGs and never stepped a foot on an arena how tf will u have a good feedback
potent pivot
i genuinely expect wow pvp will one day turn into something like plunderstorm
potent pivot
if they could just figure out ways to make more people play the existing pvp modes we'd be fine
more people doing 3s, shuffle etc
outer sky
I think the gatekeeping of achievements in it is a big part of why people aren't interested
I read somewhere, idk how true this is, but I read somewhere that the average player struggles to get 1800
potent pivot
that's true
potent pivot
a lot of people don't try hard enough either though
outer sky
why bother
potent pivot
they get frustrated quickly etc
outer sky
yeah but that's never gunna change so they kinda have to work around it
potent pivot
if you're actually determined to do it, anyone can get 1800
outer sky
like, there has got to be a way to prevent rank 1s and multi glads from dominating the entire latter
there just has to be
jolly sierra
when you have very high experienced ppl difficulting lower ranking people by progressing
potent pivot
i wonder if making MMR account wide would work
outer sky
playing against people who are just way better than you at every rating bracket
potent pivot
i'm pretty sure there is some sort of account wide MMR in the background already
outer sky
if anyone is interested in watching me get farmed, I just queued into Nahj in SS
round 1 starting soon
potent pivot
but they can still finagle it by losing on purpose etc
potent pivot
if anyone is interested in watching me get farmed, I just queued into Nahj in SS
oh boy
this oughta be a treat
jolly sierra
if anyone is interested in watching me get farmed, I just queued into Nahj in SS
show him this lol
jolly sierra
but i think elitism should still exist in some aspects
like w feedback and opinions
we saw at first hand what happened w cc feedback
cuz ppl from low rankings just whined about it
outer sky
warrior lived at 1%
potent pivot
and cvarks lmaoo
outer sky
see why am I playing these people at 2200
potent pivot
see why am I playing these people at 2200
because it's beta, CR overall is low
and they keep making new characters to start at 0cr for faster queues
outer sky
imo giving fury warr bladestorm was a big deal
at least it's nerfed overall
they had like 50% uptime on that shit
potent pivot
not my best lobby
a lot of that was just mage being broken
outer sky
before the nerf
potent pivot
i think there was 1 match where cloak would've saved you
but idek if you could've seen it coming
outer sky
I got 1 shot so fast i didnt even have time to press it
potent pivot
yeah
outer sky
I'm playing without any addons at all
All I have is details
so I'm in these games kind of blind
jolly sierra
at least it's nerfed overall
well ye
potent pivot
I'm playing without any addons at all
there's fixes for a lot of addons
jolly sierra
i wish to have disarm working on it tbh
potent pivot
but not all of them are even on curseforge
they're fixes shared by random friends and imported into your addons folder n shit
like nahj has betterblizzplates, DRs, sArena and i think bigdebuffs
outer sky
every time I try and do that shit it just fucks up my game even more somehow idk
I really need something like bigdebuffs at least
like I could be popping CDs into alter and not even know it right now
outer sky
I'm going deep sea fishing this weekend for my 30th birthday and won't be back until just before early access opens up
perfect timing
outer sky
hope to
I am bringing my starlink on the boat though just in case I get the itch to game
which is very much a possibility
outer sky
I'm after those sailfish
halcyon timber
Catch you a damn marlin
halcyon timber
Punch nzoth when you see him
I hate sharks man . I really do
Hate gators too
Kid down the street was eaten by a gator
potent pivot
o.o
outer sky
a lot of that was just mage being broken
I genuinely don't understand why blizzard keeps it this way. I get casters needing to have some decent mobility so they can cast and not just have melee in their face the whole time but mage is on a whole other level to the point where they're just not a viable kill target for melee at all
halcyon timber
We weren’t allowed to fish at all that summer
potent pivot
I genuinely don't understand why blizzard keeps it this way. I get casters needi...
i'm pretty sure frost is going to get nerfed
halcyon timber
I dunno man blizz is def weird
potent pivot
but dmg nerf not defensive
outer sky
Ive literally seen mages blink in to DB, displace out, and ice block DRd stuns if they dont have trinket because they know they can't die
thats too much
halcyon timber
Shield nerfs did nothing
potent pivot
mage has a glass cannon build, at least fire does i think
that makes it pretty squishy
outer sky
mage has a glass cannon build, at least fire does i think
yeah fire does. they lose 15% hp
the others dont
halcyon timber
Ice lance cheese is dumb
potent pivot
yeah idk cloth classes should be squishy
outer sky
frost is its own beast. so many more roots, auto slows, and 2 blocks to get through
potent pivot
like
halcyon timber
Fury warrior of harry potter shit atm
potent pivot
locks and mages being more tanky than other shit is stupid
outer sky
I mean if you could theoretically stick to a mage they can die pretty fast but theyre designed in such a way that that's unrealistic
halcyon timber
Dark pact tanking is def dumb
outer sky
what is the squishiest class you think
in terms of what will die the fastest if you hit them like a training dummy or what's easiest to kill in a game?
potent pivot
taking defensives into account etc
halcyon timber
Fire mage
outer sky
hmmmm
potent pivot
sham?
outer sky
not sham
potent pivot
don't their defensives suck ass
halcyon timber
Shaman shield is solid
outer sky
not really
halcyon timber
And if they kite well they are a pain atm
outer sky
they have a big wall, passive damage reduction and an absorb, burrow, healing totem that nobody ever kills
halcyon timber
Seasoned winds dr too
outer sky
yeah but as melee do we care about that
halcyon timber
Not unless they inted a druid or shadow priest
outer sky
I'm gunna say devoker is the squishiest class. Very closely followed by feral druid
potent pivot
when i think of squishy i think of like, hunter/sham
but maybe sham is different now in DF
outer sky
I def do not think hunter/sham lol
maybe sham a little
little bit
not hunter though
esp now that they have 2 charges of that stupid wall
halcyon timber
Def not ret either
outer sky
nope not ret
halcyon timber
Shadow priest “can” be annoying too
outer sky
Yeah im going with devoker
halcyon timber
Yeah probably evoker
They gained a blink too i think
Hover is a warp in one of the evoker trees
outer sky
the fact that they have to press their defensive before they take any damage or it will literally do nothing is so troll lol
halcyon timber
Dunno mass godzilla beam can get fked
outer sky
they got a smoke bomb
halcyon timber
They can tokyo drift breath it though now
potent pivot
that shroud shit is the most annoying ass ability i've ever seen
potent pivot
durr durr i press this so you just have to sap me 3x at the beginning of a match
halcyon timber
ITs uSeless
outer sky
that shroud shit is the most annoying ass ability i've ever seen
yeah that needs to be nerfed to 20 seconds OR give it the earth shield treatment where a single purge removes all the stacks
potent pivot
it's just weird as fuck
don't think they've ever added an ability like that before now?
outer sky
don't think they've ever added an ability like that before now?
holy ward? kinda?
halcyon timber
That’s very polite of you man
Id use much more aggressive words xD
Yeh holy ward
Hobo hobbling is all the dang priests do now
potent pivot
i'm wondering what race to make my dk
outer sky
6s subterfuge does make dealing with shroud a bit easier
halcyon timber
Chi torpedo slow is annoying af too
outer sky
wouldnt orc make all your minions do more damage?
halcyon timber
For hunters only no?
outer sky
it just says "pets"
potent pivot
yeh but mes was saying he thinks dark iron dwarf is going to be best in tww s1
halcyon timber
Right on
halcyon timber
Warlocks are terrorists
outer sky
Man I want to be a multi r1 so I can just say whatever I want and have the entire community take me seriously
stoic spruce
Evoker griping
Evokussy gripping
outer sky
"Trust me guys, Lightforged Dranei will for sure be top tier next season"
potent pivot
Man I want to be a multi r1 so I can just say whatever I want and have the entir...
L
L
dwarf has it's cloak like ability
human has trinket
orc has stun reduc
n elf has meld
outer sky
I'd probably go orc for stun reduction and the extra pet damage
potent pivot
most hunters are nelf
halcyon timber
And pvp gem for 5% off damage while ccd as the cherry on top
outer sky
I think BM hunters want to be orc but MM and survival like nelf
but Nelf is better for all 3 than orc
potent pivot
surv has a good bit of pet dmg iirc
outer sky
yeah it does
halcyon timber
And old mastery returning for what 6% dr?
halcyon timber
New flare talent is pretty vile too
outer sky
I think since for BM their entire damage profile is pet damage so orc pulls ahead. Surv has a good bit but it's still not their big dam so more flexibility
halcyon timber
How long till dh gets buffed back to legion nonsense
potent pivot
hopefully never
halcyon timber
“We see they have a difficult time not holding w long enough “
halcyon timber
Dk is like wrath level dumb atm
potent pivot
i'm only going to play surv so want a nelf
outer sky
If they just made Blur a longer CD i think that would go a long way towards tuning down how oppressive DH normally is
halcyon timber
Have a higher chance of the mcrib being available all year long than that
potent pivot
dh is pretty squishy outside its defensives
the fact they have a talent that auto blurs for them iirc?
is insanity
halcyon timber
And can dodge kidney shot from behind
potent pivot
i just don't get the purpose of making an ability automatically go off in a game like wow
that's a little too casual friendly
halcyon timber
They have hot dogs for fingers man give them a break
halcyon timber
Dh gameplay colorized
outer sky
the fact they have a talent that auto blurs for them iirc?
remember when they used to automatically drop darkness when they hit 20%?
outer sky
they used to have a pvp talent called "absolute darkness" or something
that made darkness a 90% chance to avoid damage
and it would drop automatically if they hit 20%
halcyon timber
Bladedance dodge was lame af too
outer sky
oh fuck I forgot about that
halcyon timber
Made me want to tombstone my neighbors
outer sky
some of this shit I just dont know how it gets approved to go live
and stays unnerfed forever
outer sky
is that what it says on murlok?
potent pivot
yeah
outer sky
then I guess so
potent pivot
makes zero fucking sense to me
halcyon timber
Horsemen ams is dumb too
outer sky
that pvp talent that lets DKs give AMS to someone else lol
I learned about that the hard way one game
potent pivot
AMS is fucking insane rn
halcyon timber
One of the horsemen also chuck out ams too
Like randomly and shit
Just immuning cc and whatever
outer sky
But when rogues get something good it gets nerfed so fast
Whyd they have to nerf veiled of midnight
halcyon timber
But when rogues get something good it gets nerfed so fast
Forum psyops work well against us and their foul magics
jolly sierra
fucking mass AMS is disgusting
halcyon timber
Its balanced bro , we havent been good since wrath - dks
jolly sierra
bruh
halcyon timber
We hear you’re having a good time so we are buffing ret
stoic spruce
Its balanced bro , we havent been good since wrath - dks
Forumite take
They just mad they get shredded by physical dmg
halcyon timber
Forumite take
They legit say stuff like that and rets
Moonkin huff Home Depot spray paint cans too
outer sky
Its balanced bro , we havent been good since wrath - dks
I mean tbf shaman and DK are like blizzards 2 favorite classes to nerf. I swear DKs get nerfed even when nobody is playing them lol
outer sky
Not saying they haven't been good since Wrath cuz ofc they have but theyre def a class that has some leverage to complain with
potent pivot
it's the same for like feral and surv in pve
they've been historically really dog shit
surv was insane in late SL
jolly sierra
can confirm from wod
potent pivot
feral randomly will be decent, but it's just another melee when you want more ranged in pve
jolly sierra
feral almost always scored the lowest in a lot of tier sims
outer sky
they've been historically really dog shit
do you think Blizz has an idea as to which specs are "pve" specs and which specs are "pvp" specs? And like, tries to keep them in their lanes
jolly sierra
but they were crazy good in pvp w shirvallah
potent pivot
do you think Blizz has an idea as to which specs are "pve" specs and which specs...
nope
maybe in the past
outer sky
idk I think they do to some extent
potent pivot
but not these days for sure
outer sky
Outlaw is ALWAYS the go to pve spec for rogues. another spec may get a season here or there
but it always defaults back to outlaw
potent pivot
they 100% want all specs in the game to be viable in all content
i can guarantee you that much
potent pivot
Outlaw is ALWAYS the go to pve spec for rogues. another spec may get a season he...
where are you getting this from
outlaw is almost always the worst rogue spec for raids
and i'd say it's kinda 50/50 on how much it's the best for keys
sub has been the best for keys multiple times from SL to now
sin i think in DF was much better in keys than in the past
potent pivot
what
that doesn't even make sense
but ok lol
i feel like a lot of the class tuning as a whole comes from raids
potent pivot
the raid is like the 40 man epic BGs of pve imp
it's not
at all
raids in general are way more popular than the whole of pvp
indigo hill
That's true. Think raids and m+ are the go to end game content. Pvp not so much.
outer sky
i like how M+ has a timer so someone cant just go afk to walk their gold fish for an hour before we pull the boss
potent pivot
yeah they can just afk or ragequite and waste everyone's time mid key
jolly sierra
in wod i recall before raids we had the tendency to fish a lot
cuz fish cooked food was sold like hot bread
potent pivot
in raid typically everyone has that time set aside specifically not to waste other people's time
halcyon timber
I still fish all the time heh
potent pivot
but i'm talking about pugging m+ and raiding with a good guild
raiding with a good guild is fun af
m+ is fun if you're not pugging
halcyon timber
M+ is fun but def got pissed with a couple ragnaros people constantly joining, talking yip yap and rage quitting for wanting to be scum to a healer
jolly sierra
i dont fish anymore tho
halcyon timber
Good money and i do cook a lot to sell stuff
jolly sierra
M+ is fun but def got pissed with a couple ragnaros people constantly joining, t...
oh boy that is one of the reasons i went to europe when i come to the continent and stayed here
halcyon timber
Plus i tend to find weird cool stuff
jolly sierra
latin players are very toxic and bad and even in europe had that infame
potent pivot
what really
jolly sierra
(latin players from those servers)
potent pivot
most ragnaros players i've met were very nice
jolly sierra
what bout quel thalas
halcyon timber
They def talk a lot of trash
outer sky
fucking hell mage mobility is fucking insane!
jolly sierra
im fully aware about them dude
potent pivot
i don't think i've played as much with quel thalas
jolly sierra
they are at kazzak server players in toxicity
halcyon timber
Quel players can get bent
potent pivot
but i've played with some insanely good players from rag
halcyon timber
Frostmorne Aussies are annoying af too
jolly sierra
ye, some are pretty good, can admit
but most arent
cuz they come from lol LAS server
halcyon timber
Some are good but most like to sit around in broken english talking trash instead of shutting their yammer and getting to work
Oh la horda so bed so bed la horda
jolly sierra
lol LAS players are very trash and tends to troll a lot even if that implies messing someone else match
outer sky
I'm literally out of shadow steps RP walking towards this guy as hes casting on me, i get to him, he blast waves me, I do it again, he blinks, I get a step back, he blinks back
halcyon timber
Get to work you fuckin bum
jolly sierra
Oh la horda so bed so bed la horda
"calla manco"
potent pivot
I'm literally out of shadow steps RP walking towards this guy as hes casting on ...
play sub angle
outer sky
I wish I clipped it. I kidney'd him to stop damage and he just insta ice blocks it
outer sky
without a care in the world
jolly sierra
its funny
halcyon timber
"calla manco"
Yeh
jolly sierra
when they just speaks spanish thinking most ppl doesnt understand them
or they straight have no idea bout english
outer sky
like if your class has the impunity to commit its biggest defensive to just not be stunned for 5 seconds because of its mobility then that is over tuned
and it's not even close
like
I used to say just put blast wave and displace on a choice node
nope
do that and make alter a longer CD
and nerf root duration
and their passive slow
jolly sierra
even if spanish is my mother language ofc i wont speak that here or w multiserver parties
outer sky
like what is going on
jolly sierra
is both disrespectful and annoying
outer sky
how does blizzard think this shit is okay
we're basically forced to just ignore the mage and damn near let him free cast
because it takes all of our mibility just to touch him to CC
halcyon timber
Yeh i mostly just speak in english here too
Mage is oppressed man
Hard for those mary poppins mfs
outer sky
If mage mobility is a 10/10 then the next best class is like a 4/10
its that much of a gap
jolly sierra
Yeh i mostly just speak in english here too
ofc, we speak english w our ravenholdt homies but sometimes we drop some spanish word here lol
jolly sierra
i rlly hate mages rn
playing cat and mouse is obnoxious
when they have all chances to run away
and can just machine gun u down
outer sky
ofc, we speak english w our ravenholdt homies but sometimes we drop some spanish...
it's a good idea to stick to english in these public discord servers because if you type in a langauge the mods cant understand then you could be saying something against ToS and nobody with any power would know it.
jolly sierra
it's a good idea to stick to english in these public discord servers because if ...
also that
halcyon timber
Frostfire mage ice nova def is supremely agitating
jolly sierra
but in general contexts even in my english classes guides said was disrespectful IRL
or books from high school
hahaha
potent pivot
"calla manco"
quiete la boca 😉
halcyon timber
Heh
outer sky
Frostfire mage ice nova def is supremely agitating
it's just so fucked man
outer sky
he's just a million miles away doing whatever he wants and nobody can do anything about it without commiting every mobility CD they have
and if you do CC him he trinkets
and then he blocks
and then he blocks again
jolly sierra
quiete la boca 😉
oof
outer sky
because he knows he cant die
jolly sierra
what a flex
potent pivot
i'd def expect some frost nerfs soon
jolly sierra
do u think blizz will spit on them w nerfs soon?
potent pivot
jolly sierra
oh
potent pivot
yeah i think so
potent pivot
sorta expect fire buffs as well
jolly sierra
mages are just middle finger the screen when they won a SS round
halcyon timber
They zug more than rets a lot of times and poly for tony hawk trick points
The moltres bird will smoke your. Behind too from sunfury
And gravity lapse not being a stun but a darthvader lift into a root while you get mopped is pretty cheese too
But by all means nerf gouge 2x
halcyon timber
Yeh was nasty
jolly sierra
was funny af against fkn mages
cuz bastards just blinked all stuns
so was just pointless
halcyon timber
Oh like now
XD
Def nerf iceblock heal more too
Its at like 50% or something on beta
?
outer sky
I think Ice Block should be like cycloning yourself
halcyon timber
Can’t remember whar they tuned it to last build
Fk block heal just make them do evocate again
halcyon timber
Same w disrespectful druids hopping around like Disney animals healing to full
outer sky
at least you can stick to a druid
halcyon timber
Yeah
jolly sierra
hypothermia should be a debuff
halcyon timber
Gsthering storm gem flat out needs to be better if they sre going to keep that in
Gathering*
halcyon timber
The new fire shield talent increases their damn burger king grill fire damage by 500% or something now ?
Just thorns for mage
Like why man
Warrior second wind procs are pretty nuts too. I think that’s slayer?
outer sky
yall remember in SL when thorns actually mattered?
Like you could not hit into it or you'd just die
it did so much damage
jolly sierra
it was like that in BFA too
halcyon timber
Old school angry broccoli when it was an hr buff
outer sky
it hit harder in bfa than it does now but in SL it straight chunked
halcyon timber
Old ret aura was dumb too
jolly sierra
i still recall dumb shit w hunters 1 shotting ppl at s1
halcyon timber
Killed yourself w autos
outer sky
the worst thing about shadowlands BY FAR was ret pally WoG
jolly sierra
just double tap and shot from camo w aimed shot
halcyon timber
Def hate hunters, they spread a lot of bs too
halcyon timber
Now they just reset rapid fire
And wailing arrow nonsense
Curse of horseshit anti crit from warlock is probably the worst though
outer sky
Lol I love forum posts like this. I can just imagine what the map looked like https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/watching-your-team-9v1-a-lock-while-the-efc-runs-past/1916790
jolly sierra
Lol I love forum posts like this. I can just imagine what the map looked like ht...
oh boy that happened to me in a rbg once when i was carrier
halcyon timber
Fkin kenny as always talking shit about rogues
halcyon timber
Stables monkeys are the worst. Instead of keeping a tight work triangle to be able to respond. People want to go film a new episode of jackass at far bases and do dumb shit
outer sky
sometimes I join low rated yolo RBGs out of bordom and my entire team is just running down a fucking mage while the EFC gracefully hops and skips to flag cap
halcyon timber
And somehow it was your fault too according to hivemind rbg propaganda
jolly sierra
XD
jolly sierra
sometimes I join low rated yolo RBGs out of bordom and my entire team is just ru...
both that or the dumbass which calls everything noob and has probably the worst score and experience there
jolly sierra
or uses adapt trinket
jolly sierra
or ignore flags being picked when is fighting
adapt trinket tbh is one of the biggest red flags about a player in pvp
halcyon timber
sPin tHe fLag - moron bragging about damage
I like sapping adapt kids then stealing LM in a blind
Then they go right to the forums about it and leave out their obvious bad decisions
“ROgUe iS sO oP, ThEy cAn maKe uR tRinkEt gO oN cD, dUnnO wUt aBiliTy tHey goT in tHe patCh tHat dOes thAt”
jolly sierra
im sure i got a lot of ppl getting flamed hard when i cap a base with only a caster cuz i used cloak of shadows
"WHY TF U IGNORED THE ROGUE"
"HOW DO U LOSE THE BASE"
halcyon timber
Yeah dumb dumbs being dumb dumb
potent pivot
adapt trinket tbh is one of the biggest red flags about a player in pvp
can be good sometimes
outer sky
redeemed myself
outer sky
hey question
if we kidney a target with rupture on it do we get double the value from internal bleeding?
or is it one or the other?
potent pivot
iirc it's one or the other?
outer sky
JFC 333k Crimson Tempest tick
potent pivot
we just get no value from Caustic Spatter like at all
outer sky
I like this build it makes my damage so even
potent pivot
and i have a feeling even if we did it prolly breaks cc
potent pivot
I like this build it makes my damage so even
how much dmg does an ambush do rn
with Improved Ambush, Vicious Venoms and Systemic Failure
outer sky
yes
but
IA doesnt increase ambush damage
it just makes it give you an extra combo point
potent pivot
ya i was about to say that
i was cooking IA+VV+SF+Blindside in my head
VV is +70%
so would make you avg 300k ambushes
that's not terrible
outer sky
most builds dont have you pressing mutilate or ambush a ton
potent pivot
yeh i'm kinda hoping that won't be the case in tww
outer sky
thinkin' it will be
potent pivot
yeh i'm trying to think of how to get DTB
without losing too much
yeh didn't even realize IP was on there
it was on some random piss when i started
it also had caustic because i was looking at it a second ago 
ah you can't drop IP
because you need it to get Seal Fate
ig can take the env talent
outer sky
yeah i think thats better
outer sky
sorry its late lol
if you want to full send
you could drop
bloody mess
improved garrote
shrouded
outer sky
just tunnel everything into envenom damage
potent pivot
scent of blood?
outer sky
yeah not worth
potent pivot
if poisons did actual dmg maybe
but i'm hoping ambush/env will be good
i really don't think FoK should ever be as good as it has been
outer sky
probably would look something like this
with an envenom build and DTB you dont need AP
Does ZR buff KB?
potent pivot
ZR?
potent pivot
zold
i'm not good with acronyms
there's far too many talents for that shit now lmao
but yes zold buffs kb
outer sky
ah rip
potent pivot
if it didn't it would specify weapon poisons
they've been pretty good about changing tool tips in that way
potent pivot
before we had to guess
yeah but
when it says nature dmg it's legit all nature dmg
poisons, env, kb
poison means like, kb, poison bomb i think? and weapon poisons
weapon poisons is just weapon poisons
potent pivot
yeah i just don't know if relying solely on hemo will work these days
we used to do really well without wound poison
outer sky
you can alos drop lethal dose with this build
potent pivot
but deadly poison did actual damage
outer sky
maybe with VV doomblade is decent
potent pivot
idk i still think you want bleed dmg
garrote talents and lethal dose are strong as fuck
even if your ambush/envenoms do good dmg, you'll still want decent bleed dmg to supplement
outer sky
potent pivot
you're going to have to apply them no matter what for energy etc
outer sky
the way this tree is set up you either have to all in one or the other or half ass both
potent pivot
dashing is also super ass last time i checked at least
like turbo ass
like if they buffed doomblade or dashing i could see it
lethal dose just blows them out of the water
outer sky
yeah idk man I think if you wanna play assass you're stuck with the bleed build until it gets a major rework
like
even our big CD
2m CD
is based on bleeds
potent pivot
yeah idk man I think if you wanna play assass you're stuck with the bleed build ...
i don't think the tree is that bad
potent pivot
wdym?
if ambush/env do decent dam i don't think this is that bad
you could arguably go TTK instead of IC if that env duration does anything for you in a go
outer sky
I'm not saying it's "that bad" I'm saying we have to consider how much better the bleed build is
right now I don't see this being a competitive alternative
I tried a super all-in envenom build last week
across several lobbies
you lose all your spread pressure and dont really gain a ton of ST kill pressure
because all of these other classes can still tunnel better than assa
even if we go with a build like this
potent pivot
but you don't have to drop bleed build for env dmg
you can stay basically full bleed build
you're just dropping FoK dmg and CT
tired crypt
outer sky
you also cant get DTB for wound poison without dropping a lot more
potent pivot
fatal concoction/amp poison instead of sbs/doomblade
outer sky
so youd have to rely on hemo
outer sky
in the last lobby I was in this was my breakdown
potent pivot
it's all gonna depend on tuning either way, i'm just saying what i wish would be good
:d
outer sky
40m damage from CT man
thats a lot
in fact a tick of CT was my single hardest hitting damage besides envenom
potent pivot
how many casts of fok/mut/ambush total
outer sky
It's expensive though
potent pivot
yeh
outer sky
You'll also be losing a lot of sanguine blades dam
Especially with VV
So you lose CT dam, SBS dam, wound poison, and a lot of sanguine blades
potent pivot
i don't think you'll lose out on SB dam really
outer sky
You lose more than you think. I tried a build similar to this in 2s last season
potent pivot
if you pool correctly, which you should be doing anyway, you only lose it during a stun you're spamming globals into
outer sky
I guess you'll have to try it. I found myself losing over 30% SB damage
Idk why they made VV have to increase the energy cost
It's not like it's a super OP talent
potent pivot
ye like i said, this all speculation and hopium
it's not what i think is going to happen, it's what i think should happen
potent pivot
Idk why they made VV have to increase the energy cost
yeah i agree. also think that fok shouldn't cost less energy than mutilate, that is dumb as fuck design wise.
outer sky
Tbh I think they should remove and replace sanguine blades all together. I don't like that it incentivizes NOT pressing buttons
That's kind of a shit design
potent pivot
Tbh I think they should remove and replace sanguine blades all together. I don'...
some people think having to pool energy is good design
it's a pretty core fundamental of the class
outer sky
I do too, assass has been that way for a while. The difference with SB is that even if you have enough energy to press something, you often don't want to because of SB
potent pivot
i actually kinda dig that they actually gave an incentive to pool energy, before it was very non-intuitive
potent pivot
pooling before was to keep envenom buff uptime
or to have a lot of energy going into shiv
etc
outer sky
Yeah exactly
Pooling to press buttons later
Not so a passive talent can keep procing
potent pivot
potent pivot
rapid injection and amp
what else buffs env
TTK just increases it's buff uptime, not it's dmg
so amp would stack faster but not sure if that'd actually make a big impact or not
dashing also doesn't inc env dmg, just poison crits give you energy
ER would give you 7cp envenoms
i guess you could just go full bleed build with ambush talents if env is trash
outer sky
I can't put my finger on it but something about that build looks like there's conflicting synergy
potent pivot
well it has fok and ambush talents lol
outer sky
Ah yeah that's it
potent pivot
you said yourself you feel like you have no ability to close out kills right
just full rot
outer sky
Yep 100%
outer sky
Hmmm
potent pivot
the ambush from blindside is also free
improved ambush/tight spender and kingsbane/IC
not sure on those 2 choices
outer sky
I think IC would be the move into most comps with this build
It sounds like it wants to play like the normal bleed style of spreading dots
Then when someone's low, tunnels them
outer sky
So the question is, do you front or backload your talents
potent pivot
unless you're too far/want to spread poisons
outer sky
Do you enhance the spread pressure to get to the execute range
Or do you opt for more damage in the execute range
outer sky
No, kingsbane or IC
But if you decide to take kingsbane you'd probably drop ER for Lethality and CB
Being able to make it crit every time AND have it do 20% more damage when it crits is too good to pass up imo
potent pivot
yeh i think that is going to hinge on whether or not they fix deathstalker to work with ER
and how much dmg env does in general
outer sky
Oh currently if you send envenom on an empowered combo point it doesn't count towards spending at least 5 for death stalker?
That's dumb af
potent pivot
Oh currently if you send envenom on an empowered combo point it doesn't count to...
I think that’s the case yeh
It’s believed to be a bug as far as I’m aware
wanton breach
oh no, dealing no damage and 30s kidney RIP
need the pve only players to calm the fuck down and sandbag assa properly
vestal cape
is living bomb something we can feint
and on that note; are there any other situations which feint comes in major handy? 40% dr on AoE seems nice
potent pivot
is living bomb something we can feint
if you're talented into cheat i don't think so, it's a debuff
vestal cape
im more talkin about the explosion portion from the others if say multiple players were stacked
id imagine my personal living bomb wouldnt be reduced but the splash from other bombs
potent pivot
feint works on anything aoe so like, ring of fire, frost orb, bladestorm, dk slappy hands etc
vestal cape
yeah i get that; but im wondering if it works on splash as well
potent pivot
ye it should
vestal cape
just an interesting thought if poppin it during combust would be useful or not; might need my buddy to help me test i
it
potent pivot
well it'd reduce flame strike dmg n shit as well
feint is super short cd and low cost so like
you can use it plenty without much downside
any time you think you're going to take a decent amount of dmg just press
lapis escarp
sub is dead? 
wintry dew
sub is dead? <:PogO:1160145144872435792>
Why
potent pivot
lapis escarp
Why
damage wise, on beta currently doing the same rotation using flagellation is about the same dmg i had in season 4, now on beta i cant 100-0 targets this way, full burst rotation is about 60% of target's hp, secret tech is about the same dmg as it was in s4
potent pivot
just because you can't 100-0 someone by yourself doesn't make it dead
sub is doing quite well on the beta
lapis escarp
maybe gear matters as well, since i cant get all the vers mastery pieces, but as i said it feels week compared to s4
lapis escarp
what is the build you was playing?
potent pivot
not me, but nahj/kalvish
CUQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMDAAAAAAY2mZmlpB2MGGjxMzMzMzMmtZZGjlthZYmxYMzyYAAAAYGGsYWGYALglhJkZhxA
lapis escarp
there is definitely smth wrong with my stats, opened up nahj's recent stream and he has 83% mastery, i have 46% 
gotta look in to it
potent pivot
there is definitely smth wrong with my stats, opened up nahj's recent stream and...
on the beta?
lapis escarp
y
potent pivot
most people are crafting gear
but you have to do it yourself
you can buy items from the vendors to insta level them, but you'll have to go through and level all of them almost
lapis escarp
will craft then, ty
stoic spruce
Nighty night ol buddy ol pals
halcyon timber
Night popo, i just got up to go to class. Busy freakin day man
rose iris
Guys is rogue hard in pvp or am i just imaging that, im so used to play warrior everyone tells me ur not a warrior 
wintry dew
Guys is rogue hard in pvp or am i just imaging that, im so used to play warrior ...
It's hard yes
And no you're not a warrior, you gotta play dirty
wintry dew
Reset, play around enemies CDs/trinkets
lime oar
You can just run in and spam abilities on rogue. You need a game plan
wintry dew
LoS enemy team
lime oar
Cant*
wintry dew
Warrior be like: I'll hit them until either me or them are dead
We ain't playing like that
rose iris
But how do i get reset if im dotted, do i legit just sit and wait till dots leave me so i can restealth?
wintry dew
Depends, there's so much to it
Sometimes we want to enter stealth just for subterfuge buff
lime oar
YouTube is your friend
rose iris
I watch tons of pikaboo but i dont get nothing :<
rose iris
even on his guide
i dont get it like legit
dude can play without monitor and 1v2 people
dont rofl me i see it
wintry dew
dont rofl me i see it
You trying sub or assa?
Assa could be more like warrior than sub
indigo hill
Don't try to be pika. He's a whole different kind of beast. It's like he was born with a rogue brain. Warrior is less planning. They are more charge behind a pillar and die type of class. 😂
rose iris
Don't try to be pika. He's a whole different kind of beast. It's like he was b...
I dont try to be like him, im just trying to learn how to play rogue
rose iris
You trying sub or assa?
Ive played Assa rogue
never sub never outlaw, however, outlaw looks really cool transmog and i really like the idea of the pistol
What it looks like, is that people use rupture at 3 combo points? i thought it would need to be maxed out?
surreal barn
Best way to find your spec are three random facts unique to yourself
I eat kiwis whole, the scratching sound on plates and chalkboard doesn’t bother me, and my nose hair grows faster than my eyebrows
Adding these up I’m clearly a sub rogue.
rose iris
problem also i like the idea of all 3
rose iris
What it looks like, is that people use rupture at 3 combo points? i thought it w...
if som1 can help me with this one it would b good
wintry dew
What it looks like, is that people use rupture at 3 combo points? i thought it w...
More cps = more duration
If people sending rupture at 3 is just because they just want a bleed rolling
rose iris
More cps = more duration
is 3 cps just dmg?
wintry dew
Hypothetical numbers:
Rupture does 10k tick DMG, the more cps you use, the longer the duration rupture will have, the more damage it will do because it ticked more
rose iris
yes but i mean i thought rupture is useless to send at less than max
but this means alot to me
rose iris
yes
wintry dew
If you've seen people use rupture at lower count cps, is just so they start getting energy flow
Assa Gameplay currently is just maintaining poisons, garrote, rupture and crimson tempest on as many targets as possible
rose iris
do you use deadly poison or wound then?
wintry dew
Mostly wound
wintry dew
I'd say it's less important than all 3 dots but more important than envenom
But snd is a debatable topic
rose iris
this class is so DEEEP
surreal barn
Needs very long brain to satisfy it
I saw those Assa numbers
What will they nerf?
wintry dew
What will they nerf?
We can only wait and see
lapis escarp
based
potent pivot
But how do i get reset if im dotted, do i legit just sit and wait till dots leav...
no, you won't always be able to get a reset
rose iris
no, you won't always be able to get a reset
Cheers!
potent pivot
What it looks like, is that people use rupture at 3 combo points? i thought it w...
not sure if Royal already covered this, but:
-you can do low cp ruptures when you're just starting to get rolling, like in the first opener, or if most of your bleeds fall off the enemy team
-you should never be aiming for MAX cp's (this will change in TWW for certain envenom casts), you should be aiming for 5-6, if you happen to land on 7 whilst aiming for 5-6, that's fine
rose iris
not sure if Royal already covered this, but:
-you can do low cp ruptures when y...
oh i see
rose iris
not sure if Royal already covered this, but:
-you can do low cp ruptures when y...
this helps alot
potent pivot
but how important is SnD?
SnD is something you want to put up, but you mostly want to try pressing it like when you're out of range and have free time to do so
rose iris
why never mac cps?
potent pivot
envenom refreshes SnD so for the most part it'll stay up after you press it at free times like that
rose iris
when i last played assa we had shadow dance
potent pivot
why never mac cps?
because if you're always aiming for max, you'll over cap combo points
rose iris
but now i seem to get killed cus i vanish to much
rose iris
because if you're always aiming for max, you'll over cap combo points
yeah fair
potent pivot
wasting combo points is very inefficient
for right now i'd try to stick to only using 1 vanish charge offensively
hell while you're learning you could save both for defensive use
rose iris
Ok nice
potent pivot
Ok nice
maybe you've already seen it, but:
https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pvp-rotation-and-playstyle
if you give this a few good reads and practice you should be able to get the hang of everything
the only thing i would say differently for SnD for example:
don't need to SnD with 5+ combo points if you're planning to envenom soon after it
small detail but ye
plucky escarp
Is there a beta build any one is liking for assa or sub?
plucky escarp
thank you!
potent pivot
sub:
CUQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMDAAAAAAY2mZmlpB2MGGjxMzMzMzMmtZZGjlthZYmxYMzyYAAAAYGGsYWGYALglhJkZhxA
sin:
CMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYMjZmxMDAAAAAAY2MmtBAAAAAAtsNmZYmxYmZWGDmZMzMzMzYG222GzwgNz2ADYJYZYCMsMA
potent pivot
deathstalker!?
?
plucky escarp
I thought deathstalker was not good
I feel like I've read about people complaining about it for months lol
plucky escarp
yeah true
potent pivot
@outer sky kek
(that really shouldn't be his top dam)
-# (might be fucking something up)
plucky escarp
what dr tacker is working on beta?
potent pivot
what dr tacker is working on beta?
not sure if any are without a beta specific fix
which are kept kinda private
potent pivot
For deathstalker does trigger death stalkers mark?
no
plucky escarp
lame
plucky escarp
ah i see
potent pivot
i'm hoping blindside will be good regardless
we won't really know what's best until a couple weeks after season starts
there could still be more tuning to come etc
waxen meteor
we can level up from next tuesday after patch?
potent pivot
we can level up from next tuesday after patch?
no, thursday August 22 for NA
for early access
regular launch is August 26
narrow tangle
rose iris
why did nahj say its a buff the kidney nerrf
potent pivot
they don't seem that bad at all so far