i always put 2 or 3
#pvp
gritty bobcat
outer sky
yeah probably unless the game is super short
outer sky
thats assass only
gritty bobcat
nah for sub
outer sky
really?
outer sky
oh right
worthy crag
but I personally never have room for it
outer sky
forgot about that
worthy crag
its good for shuffle for sure
gritty bobcat
but then again i just went 1-5
so
every dps also is stunning and fucking up the go
outer sky
sub is trash right now. The physical damage of eviscerate, which is most of it, is being mitigated by 40-60% because of armor. As is shadowstrike
worthy crag
shuffle makes it easy to learn though, can you imagine having to explain yourself to a team of 2s or 3s after ur team goes 1-5
gritty bobcat
I feel like I just have to 1 shot some dps in like a shadowy duel
or i lose the round
outer sky
I feel like I just have to 1 shot some dps in like a shadowy duel
thats been sub since legion lol
worthy crag
eh
gritty bobcat
i just started playingit now
worthy crag
duel has taken on a really cheesy meme role ever since drastagath trinket in bfa
it used to have more flavor when you use it for peels or locking the healer while ur mage does the finishing blow
outer sky
I mean they give the spec with the most stuns in the game and high burst dps a cooldown that lets them 1v1 anyone they want for 5 seconds. Whatd they think was going to happen
I think duel used to be 6s
and got nerfed to 5
worthy crag
Should be removed xD
outer sky
it hasnt always been this toxic
like back in bfa
i used to almost exclusively use it as healer CC
worthy crag
at least i can still q as survival
outer sky
at least i can still q as survival
my favorite hunter spec to play
worthy crag
Same, ive been loving it since the legion rework, even though it was me and 17 other people in NA or so
BFa and SL versions I didnt like as much but
outer sky
you remember before they nerfed hunters mark for MM and it allowed the hunter to see through shadowy duel?
worthy crag
DF was fun and TWW looks promising too
outer sky
If you got a trinket as thug it was over
worthy crag
yeah that was hilarious
outer sky
you mean that stupid owl thing?
gritty bobcat
Also is anyone able to play the beta?
halcyon timber
No a new thing
gritty bobcat
bc i just downloaded it
outer sky
Also is anyone able to play the beta?
I'm on beta
outer sky
ye
halcyon timber
Not the owl but like when they volley, they can see through los and stuff
gritty bobcat
idk it says incompatable for m
halcyon timber
New talent for mm
gritty bobcat
ill try that
i didnt buy the game
is that why?
also why is there 11.0 and then 11.2
makes no sense lmao
the scanning game files is taken a LONG ASS TIME
seomthing was defintly wrong
halcyon timber
They are patching between them 11.0 is old builds and nope, don’t need the purchased game
gritty bobcat
its still at 20%
halcyon timber
More rogue buffs too. Good deal.
gritty bobcat
except for warlocks
halcyon timber
Slow and steady for us is good
The warlock stuff apparently is to cover some bug fixed and yadda yadda (according to locks)
gritty bobcat
800% increase lmao
never good when u see that
look at what happened to living bomb
halcyon timber
Yeah loving bomb was nuts
Prob still a ok, just not ridiculous
Shall see though
outer sky
glad to see a kingsbane buff on top of all the other buffs
any idea when all these new buffs will hit the beta?
gritty bobcat
im not going to be playing any outlaw or asas
outer sky
im not going to be playing any outlaw or asas
if sub is ever good it gets nerfed into being bad to moderate
gritty bobcat
Yea I mean when I play another class
and a sub rogue tripple cheap shots me and kills me 100-0
just makes me wanna play it
bc theres abosulutely no counter play
0
halcyon timber
any idea when all these new buffs will hit the beta?
Should be when the beta build loads (if it is up now? Haven’t checked i was jamming to the nee music put out)
outer sky
Beta build?
halcyon timber
and a sub rogue tripple cheap shots me and kills me 100-0
Depends on the class and if there are team mates with common sense to cc for you. 1 disarm screws us.
gritty bobcat
doesnt cloak remove disarm?
halcyon timber
Beta build?
Yes sir, the new build they spoke about earlier this week. If realma are up, we can assume this is the new build to test.
outer sky
doesnt cloak remove disarm?
Only with the pvp talent
gritty bobcat
pre cloak the go
halcyon timber
doesnt cloak remove disarm?
Yes but then just throw any cc into it and problem solved aa follow up
Cloak resists magic but isn’t a full immunity
outer sky
Yes sir, the new build they spoke about earlier this week. If realma are up, we ...
So you're saying the buffs are live on beta now?
halcyon timber
So you're saying the buffs are live on beta now?
“Should” be.
I don’t work there so /shrug
I keep an eye on stuff and ill know if it is changed when i start hitting stuff in a little
halcyon timber
pre cloak the go
Rogue cloaks , you stun / incap etc . Any aoe goes through duel too . Ex shadowfury ./ intim shout / ring of frost etc
Just have to be fast and adapt well
If they cc a team mate - you wall etc and trade as usual vs anyone. Heck even the stam trinket (battlemasters) is solid. Trinketing on their global and immediately stopping them is also good (just like fighting anyone else)
Dk new chains root is also physical btw boys
jolly sierra
can confirm my theory
trolled a glad ele sham with bases again
he moved away and i used cloak
just watched some "miss" messages over my portrait and capped
grave basin
and a sub rogue tripple cheap shots me and kills me 100-0
This isn't even close to happening lol
ttk has been massively increased
halcyon timber
Don’t remember what else also deals physical dmg as a multi school by them
Earthen rage procs i think are physical too
I want to say earthshock is maybe physical multi school too
worthy crag
man, never thought id say this but i kinda miss relentless trinket
so many zuggers are orcs anyway and it would make my human so much better
worthy crag
I liked looking at a rogue's feeble attempts to stunlock me while having 0 gcds for damage when it existed
halcyon timber
Haha dang yeah was miserable
gritty bobcat
yea my launcher just
keeps loading me through the dragonflight
one
weird
it wont let me access the beta
maybe i need to download the 11.0 version
isntaed of 11.2
im on a mac maybe thats why
mac is just horrible bro
jolly sierra
Don’t remember what else also deals physical dmg as a multi school by them
auto attack
KEK
halcyon timber
KEK
xD there are some abilities that deal physical damage in addition to nature (like holystrike stuff for paladins deals physical and radiant dmg)
halcyon timber
no idea as I'm not a paladin but you would probably know
I think blade of justice pierces you no matter what as it is holy strike and does go through both forms of cloak
Judgement does go through cloak as well and is holy strike
jolly sierra
i recalled u could counter a ret burst by just bop i recall
after rework
so my doubts
halcyon timber
No idea as things def have changed
worthy crag
oh god this prepatch event set looks like ass
halcyon timber
The memories are nice remembering old quests at least and world pvping in zones long forgotten is nice for once.
Other than that yeah just a nice nod to the past and catch up gear. Don’t think it was supposed to he ultra wicked great. Good lore there at least kicking off the world soul saga.
worthy crag
I've been sensing a common trend among "old" games to trigger nostalgia
this prepatch is an example of them
not that it's bad, i'm mostly indifferent
As far as prepatch events go, the legion one still takes the cake for me
jolly sierra
and is still bugged i think
halcyon timber
Yeah its cool , not everything will be a greatest hit. Im just looking forward to slapping nerubians in the snout
New music is freakin great. Hallowfall inn is absolute magic.
steel scarab
I like the prepatch quests, very fun
Nostalgia of it is awesome
The 1.5 hour time gating is balls salad though
steel scarab
oh god this prepatch event set looks like ass
I like the set lol
wintry dew
I like the set lol
It's just another recolor
steel scarab
Really? I've never seen it, what is it originally from?
wintry dew
Argus, legion.
Also a pvp recolour
If you're in the game, try searching pvp sets from legion, it's there somewhere
wanton breach
it's this set which now has a total of 4 colours
inner tartan
it realy buged for me like the count down hits 0 and boss no spawn and it says next one spawn in next place in a hour and so
wintry dew
it's this set which now has a total of 4 colours
Thanks bro
spring bough
first game today. solo shuffle as frost dk. 5th round healer and lock on my team beef and healer sits out
unholy dk on other team CRUSHES the lock with like 400k dps lol
unholy DK in my lobby next round "bro i CRUSHED it, im starting to get the hang of this"
yeah bro.... no healer lol
gusty hedge
spring bough
solo bg on my hunter was about 7-3 and like 1200. DK is 9-1 and 1546 lol
spring bough
PSA I made my DK before Pika made his video that everyone needs to make one LOL
outer sky
looks like the rogue buffs are live on beta
gunna queue a couple solos as assass and outlaw
see how they feel
will report back
it doesnt look like the buffs apply to pvp
Kingsbane tooltip in pvp
Kingsbane tooltip outside of pvp
and my ilvl is much lower outside of pvp
11 levels lower
spring bough
does KB have a pvp modifier on it already?
spring bough
Kingsbane tooltip in pvp
wowhead shows it has a pvp modifier
Effect #2 School Damage (Nature) (AP mod: 1.309)
PVP Multiplier: 0.68
Effect #4 Apply Aura: Periodic Damage
Interval: 2 seconds (AP mod: 0.22)
PVP Multiplier: 0.92
outer sky
outer sky
fatebound feels nice
outer sky
fatebound hit harder than any single button I pressed
surreal barn
fatebound hit harder than any single button I pressed
Maybe that’s their plan. So they only have to tune one thing to nerf each class
spring bough
fatebound feels nice
they def gonna nerf it but if it still stays in the top 5 overall abilities on our damage then outlaw is going to be CRUISING season one of TWW
love some passive damage
just pump and let the passive pump too
sudden quest
I heard the hero talents for rogues were trash though
outer sky
I heard the hero talents for rogues were trash though
They are with the exception of fatebound outlaw.
It's only good because outlaw is very high APM
So you're flipping the coin a lot
I tried fatebound assass and it did like 10% the damage
sudden quest
That is outlaw sub?
sudden quest
And the outlaw is the only decent one?
gusty hedge
for fatebound outlaw is
outer sky
And the outlaw is the only decent one?
Outlaw is the only spec that's hero talents actually seem impactful
As sub and sin you hardly even notice
Deathstalker shadow step CDR is kinda nice
But that's about it
chrome schooner
Tbh as Assa if things stay as they are you'll just pick whichever has Rupture+Crimson modifiers
outer sky
I don't think any of them do
Deathstalker is all envenom modifiers
Fatebound will coin flip every time you rupture or CT
But it doesn't happen frequently enough
To make it do the big dam
potent pivot
I don't think any of them do
deathstalker has both rupture and CT modifiers
potent pivot
I heard the hero talents for rogues were trash though
they're just boring and mostly passive, they're all fine throughput wise
wanton breach
does duo-q work with a healer in solo rbg?
potent pivot
believe so ye
lavish idol
what did they do to vanish? I'm out of stealth in 0,5 sec
potent pivot
what did they do to vanish? I'm out of stealth in 0,5 sec
they changed it to 1.5s guaranteed stealth instead of the old 3s
muted abyss
what did they do to vanish? I'm out of stealth in 0,5 sec
they changed the vanish protection from 3 seconds to 1.5
lavish idol
Man you really feel it
muted abyss
just gotta be more careful with vanishes
lunar zinc
vanish 1.5 sec is a good change but removing dance from assa seems too radical
muted abyss
I mean we get 6 seconds of stealth abilities and an extra vanish
it's basically the same thing?
outer sky
double vanish is better than vanish+ dance
because double vanish can be used defensively
muted abyss
^
potent pivot
Did the assa buffs go live yet on beta?
not sure but i can find out for you i think
outer sky
yes please
potent pivot
gimme a min ill ping you if i find out
potent pivot
yes please
yeah it's been pushed on the beta
outer sky
So its live?
potent pivot
yeah
outer sky
lol I cant tell a difference in the damage im doing
potent pivot
i mean it was only +10% mostly
that seems like quite a big buff but in reality it isn't much
10% of dogshit is usually still dogshit
SL went live with Assa needing +50% aura buff
potent pivot
It does NOT feel like i'm topping damage
whats the breakdown looking like
outer sky
outer sky
nah, deathstalker
outer sky
its #7
outer sky
it doesnt feel like you have any kill pressure is the issue
like I'm doing a lot of damage but someone on my team dies to big burst while the enemy healer easily keeps his team up through my rot
Im playing this right now
potent pivot
yeah
outer sky
Not sure if its the move
but I dont like having to keep rupture up on 3 targets to get value out of the other one
because thats not always possible
outer sky
yeah for RBGs id take the other if i'm in team fight
potent pivot
FoK crits are common enough
outer sky
the problem with all the rogue specs right now is we just dont have a button that feels good to press
potent pivot
yeah idk
it kinda seems like they don't want killing spree/kingsbane/shtech to do insane dam
ocean cairn
you know if they will fix the specs eventually? for me im speaking especially for sub xD
potent pivot
they've been nerfing burst for the past year
outer sky
I might need to make a weakaura for this and make sure to send my kingsbane during this window
thats so hard to play around though
potent pivot
you know if they will fix the specs eventually? for me im speaking especially fo...
if you mean in prepatch it's prolly going to be fucked until TWW launches
armor values are scuffed on prepatch
potent pivot
thats so hard to play around though
yeah idk
ocean cairn
At tww what is your opinion about the spec?
outer sky
it kinda seems like they don't want killing spree/kingsbane/shtech to do insane ...
killing spree genuinely feels worthless to press. I mostly use it when I see a big chaos bolt heading my way for the damage mitigation. Like you press KS and their health doesnt move. It supposedly it does 1.6m damage in 2.4 seconds
outer sky
At tww what is your opinion about the spec?
its the worst rogue spec on beta right now and all 3 specs are kinda bad
ocean cairn
kinda? or unplayable?
outer sky
kinda? or unplayable?
idk if I'd say unplayable but its not good
ocean cairn
im a pvp player enjoying only sub rog and survival hunter .. if it comes that the almost delete the spec maybe i probably switch to cata
outer sky
Survival isnt bad
potent pivot
At tww what is your opinion about the spec?
i'm pretty sure sub will be fine in tww
how beta looks right now is not exactly indicative of what it will look like when season starts
people tend to doom too much
the game hasn't launched yet
ocean cairn
i pray xD
indigo hill
Do people think it's bad because of numbers or playstyle?
outer sky
you cant kill anything
indigo hill
Yeah do the specs play bad on beta. Like rotation/synergy or is it more of a numbers tuning problem?
I know on we do little damage in pvp with the physical damage nonsense going on.
potent pivot
Do people think it's bad because of numbers or playstyle?
mostly tuning ye
indigo hill
Ah OK. No need to get worried then. Hope outlaw is usable in pvp. It's my favorite of the rogue specs.
outer sky
This is how a lot of the games I lose go. You'll see on the meters Im doing a lot of damage but the enemy healer has no problem topping everyone and someone on my team almost always dies before the game gets damp enough for my rot to matter. Granted I'm playing without most addons so I'm probably making some mistakes (like when I kidneyd into precog), plus cheap shot doesnt always work and there's a survival hunter on the other team which obviously counters, but still.
potent pivot
vid loading so slow for me
this almost looks like healer diff
your team sat half health for a long ass time then druid died from half health in a global
some specs might need pvp tuning
like if you see some classes doing big burst on beta i wouldn't expect it to stay like that
surreal barn
Tricks you been playing any sub lately
potent pivot
not lately i prolly won't until after launch
cause there's no shot i'm playing into these armor values i just don't care 
surreal barn
Tried a bunch of different loadouts, hasn’t been enjoyable
potent pivot
on live or beta
surreal barn
Live
potent pivot
yeah i mean on live we're in the gutter because of the armor shit
surreal barn
No subterfuge, goremaw+echoing rep has been the only thing that I can kill with
Def in the gutter 😆
potent pivot
i honestly wouldn't run echoing rn
indigo hill
Prepatch has 0 balance. Rogue, monk and war do little to nothing, while ele is just crapping instant kills.
potent pivot
i don't think they really care about prepatch balance either
outer sky
I wish bonespike was easier to get to on our assa tree
indigo hill
Just did a bg. We had monk, feral, arms and me as rogue. They had 2 ele, 2 locks...
potent pivot
I wish bonespike was easier to get to on our assa tree
you think the new bonespike is worth?
outer sky
you think the new bonespike is worth?
I'm just thinking. since we dont have any real burst, it would help with the rot
I'm considering trying a build where I drop KB and MA for doomblade and spike
potent pivot
worth a shot ig
potent pivot
I'm just thinking. since we dont have any real burst, it would help with the rot
on the other hand you could try echoing for more burst
CB+ER
with reverb maybe
outer sky
what would I drop to get to that
potent pivot
well you'd drop deeper
then probably tea?
well vigor is good too
but idk if you'd want to drop vanish/subt ever
could just try this first
if it seems worth a damn then try CB
muted abyss
bro I can't wait for ele shamans to be irrelevant again
outer sky
does lethality affect all garrote ticks?
waxen meteor
This is how a lot of the games I lose go. You'll see on the meters Im doing a lo...
is this some healer gap?
i feel your team is dying whole game...
outer sky
well you'd drop deeper
Not the play
potent pivot
Not the play
but what if you slam KB->ER
was kinda my thought process
i guess it kinda hinges on you getting someone under 35%
in the first place
potent pivot
what are you going to use CB for
outer sky
yeah good question
let me change that
Maybe something like this
Or I could drop deeper for one point of lethality
potent pivot
Or I could drop deeper for one point of lethality
does deeper not make rupture and ct deal +5%
outer sky
if you commit at least 5CPs to them yeah
I rupture at 3 a lot
Ill try not to do with
do that*
with low crit though I wont get many SF procs
potent pivot
when you spend more combo points at a time you also have a higher chance of stacking alacrity faster
so alac+deeper kinda play into each other
outer sky
yeah
steel scarab
@potent pivot I agree
7 combo points makes Alacrity much better
Are they significantly buffing our builders? Mutilate hitting for 20k combined with HP totals being so high that Kingsbane can't reliably kill anyone with the initial crit anymore makes Lethality feel pretty bad
If no, I think lethality could use some love
I also think Echoing should just baseline animacharge 2 combo points and the final node of the tree should do something fun
Like a totally different ability
It's weird design that ER is the only Shadowlands ability in our trees that requires 2 talent points to make it good lol
potent pivot
it was too powerful to be 1 node and multiple empowered points iirc
our class tree is bad no matter what way you look at it
the spec trees have gotten better since their first implementations, but our class tree if anything has gotten worse
jolly sierra
This is how a lot of the games I lose go. You'll see on the meters Im doing a lo...
im curious about that nameplate, looks compact enough to show everything, what setup is that?
outer sky
im curious about that nameplate, looks compact enough to show everything, what s...
its an addon called "nplates" I love it. Used it forever
Tried plater for a few days and went back to this
jolly sierra
its an addon called "nplates" I love it. Used it forever
ill watch it i think, thank you
outer sky
Just tried this build. Def changes the gameplay since you dont have any hard hitting ST buttons youre just running around keeping bleeds up the whole game
it didnt feel bad though
jolly sierra
it have both IC and SBS
outer sky
But you dont have CT right?
potent pivot
how is sbs st
jolly sierra
:l
outer sky
SBS was 6% of my damage in my last SS
which is more than KB ever is
unless the games are super short
plus you get the extra rupture and CT damage from deeper
potent pivot
yeah i'm just saying it's not ST
MA really isn't that great
unless you're vanishing your KB or something
jolly sierra
is not the real one
waxen meteor
MA is just a passing talent, not really mandatory at all to me
jolly sierra
fair
waxen meteor
was good
outer sky
now its kinda meh
waxen meteor
now it's garbage
outer sky
I just hate having to take this stupid shit to get to bonespike
thats across 6 SS games
waxen meteor
tbh the aoe garrot talent value is dropping too
outer sky
what a waste of a talent
waxen meteor
the good part of that talent is it also aoe rupture
potent pivot
I just hate having to take this stupid shit to get to bonespike
yeah but it buffs your other dots'
so
it's w/e
outer sky
yeah but it buffs your other dots'
it does?
potent pivot
ye
waxen meteor
question, if you take bone and you take the aoe rupture talent
does it send bone to all targets too?
outer sky
does it send bone to all targets too?
yes
potent pivot
it does?
because of Lethal Dose
iirc SBS is bugged and applying 3 stacks to targets affected by aoe rupture from IC
or some shit
outer sky
does each stack count towards lethal dose?
potent pivot
nah i don't think so
outer sky
I'm half way considering trying lethal poison instead of wound poison with this build
and relying on hemo for MS
potent pivot
for the poison damage?
i feel like the damage from deadly poison is negligible
compared to what wound does
outer sky
oh btw I just learned sanguine blades can be parried
steel scarab
@potent pivot I agree, completely. The tree is so uninspired 😞
steel scarab
MA really isn't that great
Agree, MA is pretty awful now, it definitely needs a buff. Losing the Nightstalker damage buff and losing the more frequent uptime of MA via Shadow Dance with no compensatory buff to MA just makes me concerned that the people in charge of rogue changes do not actually play our class lol
outer sky
actually did some CT damage that round
unholy DK in the lobby
potent pivot
Agree, MA is pretty awful now, it definitely needs a buff. Losing the Nightstalk...
if it's still the same people as it was in early DF they definitely do play the class
potent pivot
unholy DK in the lobby
oh so it's pad damage 
outer sky
oh so it's pad damage <:SAD:718207731185745922>
no
CT on more targets increases its damage to the main target
potent pivot
that works off pets in pvp?
outer sky
yep
potent pivot
surprised i never realized
i guess i just assumed that since pets don't give extra combo points to FoK that was how pets are in pvp in general
outer sky
This is hilarious
one of the druids in the lobby doesnt know its venruki on mage
that druid went 0-6
and starts flaming ven
"I was 36-3 before I got this trash mage on my team"
tacit ledge
does anyone have a good duel spec for sub rogue?
potent pivot
i think fire just isn't doing as good on beta
potent pivot
does anyone have a good duel spec for sub rogue?
check out murlok.io
tacit ledge
i'll look
wanton breach
first rated bg blitz, healer on my team ragequits in the first minute...
muted abyss
bg blitz has been dogshit
nobody wants to do the objectives, it's literally just a way for people to earn conquest
we capped with like a minute to go, and the druid on our team sitting on the enemy flag didn't pick it up and they capped at 12 seconds left
it would be fine if they removed CTF maps tbh
jolly sierra
in my last BG we won 3-0 cuz they sent me to get flags
difference was absurd
picked manuv for the job
made the game
wanton breach
we capped with like a minute to go, and the druid on our team sitting on the ene...
eye of the storm is the worst, people afk at inactive towers
muted abyss
eye of the storm is the worst, people afk at inactive towers
I think that's just a UI design issue tbh
but yeah, bg blitz is just gonna be casuals who want to gear up with conquest gear and then go to their next alt
and then do premade epic bgs
outer sky
So far I'm having the best luck with this big bleed build
went 5-1 in my last lobby. Here's the breakdown
wanton breach
30% garrote damage whut
muted abyss
So far I'm having the best luck with this big bleed build
link to talents?
outer sky
muted abyss
oh this is for beta
outer sky
yeah
muted abyss
kay, I'll download that and try it out
wanton breach
errr, did you even ambush to start the deathstalker gimmick?
outer sky
yeah
but empowering envenom didnt seem super valuable here
the one thing I'm debating about is whether I want to run that build or drop deeper strat and 1 point of alactrity for 2 points of lethality
I got 90 garrote crits
so 2% more would be 91.8
call it 92
with lethality theyd do 20% more damage
my average crit was 163,723
so times 92
15,062,516 total damage
now add 20% to that
18,075,019.2
without letahlity I did 14,735,070 damage with garrote
crits
so if I had lethality
garrote would have done 3,339,949.2 more damage
but I'd lose 5% rupture and CT damage
and some haste from alactrict
alacrity*
I did 30.38m damage with CT
so minus 5% I'd have done 28,861,000
so thats 1,519,000 damage
and I did 36.86m dam with rupture
so minus 5% I'd have done 35,017,000
so 1,843,000 less
so together thats 3,362,000 damage
worthy crag
outer sky
which means this build did 22,051 more damage
but there was a UDK in the lobby which buffed my CT damage
so theyre probably about equal depending on the comp youre fighting within 1 million overall damage across 6 games
worthy crag
I dont really know jack about sin but wouldnt you also need to account for the fact that garrote is a generator and rupture and CT are finishers? Since alot of the hero trees about amping up finisher dmg
potent pivot
worthy crag
Or maybe the numbers are with the hero talents included
outer sky
I dont really know jack about sin but wouldnt you also need to account for the f...
I'm just contrasting 2 different class tree builds
everything else staying the same
these two
worthy crag
Yeah I mean, on a quick glance I'd assume alac into deeper would net more damage
lethality is a pretty high value node if the crits can happen though
outer sky
yeah but without MA
Im sitting at 15% crit all game
17% if I had lethality
the consistency of alac>deeper is valuable too since you dont need to get crit RNG
for the damage to happen
worthy crag
Also account for the fact that crit is lower on players compared to mobs right?
I think it's still a bit lower, though it's always a pain in the ass to google up the exact scaling on that
outer sky
Yes when I did all that math I took the total damage I did with garrote crit ticks and increased it by 20%
in a game
muted abyss
hmm, doesn't look like they let you create max level characters on beta
outer sky
hmm, doesn't look like they let you create max level characters on beta
they do
make sure you select beta and not "testing"
jolly sierra
oh fuck got the most outrageous match ever seen
outer sky
You been following, @worthy crag ? Been playing this build and having good luck with it
jolly sierra
i was giving healer the flag
guy didnt get the clue
2 secs later another guy takes it and returns to base
jolly sierra
the healer said nothing
worthy crag
or they were protesting that you were trying to give a healer the flag
I dont think that's ever a good move
outer sky
if it was blitz they may not have had a tank
jolly sierra
im a rogue
worthy crag
Yeah, personally I really wish that mode to ban capture the flag maps for tankless matches
worthy crag
Rogue is honestly a better class for flag carrying than a lot of people give em credit for but this might be a hot take
like hunters can't even cheat death with a flag
jolly sierra
still lose 3-0 /cry
worthy crag
feign death* I mean
worthy crag
rogue has feint, evasion, cloak
jolly sierra
and hiding to do dmg
worthy crag
step x2 on allies
worthy crag
oh, the sin version of secret strategem competes with theor FoK talent
so most sins would still run with 6 combo points
outer sky
yeah i dont see sin taking sanguine strat unless a heavy envenom build becomes optimal
worthy crag
Seeing sin rogues just spamming fok fok fok makes me so salty
but thats a different topic
steel scarab
@muted abyss EOTS Blitz is definitely the worst, because the game doesn't make it abundantly obvious that you need to keep moving to the constantly changing nodes as they become active and inactive
@outer sky I use Sanguine Strategem to be different but the improved FOK talent is obviously superior and basically mandatory since Acrobatic Strikes was taken away
worthy crag
Did (old)acrobatic strikes also widen fok radius?
potent pivot
It 100% extended FoK
you sure about that?
wasn't there a diff talent on the spec tree that increased FoK to 15 yards
acro added 3 yards to melee damage
flying daggers used to make fok 15 yards
now it's 12 yards
Flying Daggers: Fan of Knives' radius is increased to 15 yds and deals 15% more damage when it strikes 5 or more targets.
Acrobatic Strikes: Increases the range of your melee attacks by 3 yds.
outer sky
you sure about that?
im sure
gritty bobcat
howcome I play certain sub builds and im super energy starved
and then otherse im always at full energy?
steel scarab
Yeah, Flying Daggers made FOK go further. Even so, that's a very nonintuitive list. If Acrobatic Strikes extended the range of Crimson Tempest, which is very much not a melee ability, why would Acro not also extend the range of FOK, which works exactly the same way as CT?
worthy crag
Cuz vigor
steel scarab
The answer is, the game makes no sense and the tooltips are dogshit
worthy crag
You can be assured that non-thistle tea build in sub pvp will be pretty crap in 99.9% of situations
worthy crag
Maybe not a "dps" increase as it would only really affect one or two finishers
but that's what matters for sub
gritty bobcat
I mean im going to mess around with the alents so i ealrn but
is there anything nerfed
on both trees in pvp?
cause i know on my warrior some taletns r nerfed
stealth nerfed modifiers in pvp
like finaltiy
etc
like is the rotten nerfed or something?
worthy crag
dark shadow and finality are nerfed in pvp, so is danse macabre
im pretty sure perfortaed veins is also a little less in pvp
and weaponmaster
gritty bobcat
wb goremaw
worthy crag
not sure if goremaw is affected
worthy crag
Yeah. At the end of the day pvp specific nerfs etc arent all that important
meta builds account for all that and some talents are necessary even if nerfed
macabre isnt probably "necessary" but its mostly taken cuz there's just nothing better than it at the end nodes
once you've already taken dark brew
halcyon timber
everything is toned down in pvp just about, anything in the last few rows are all tuned down.
either directly or indirectly
everything can work as well
gritty bobcat
I just want to like familizarize myself with the tree
bc im new to sub
i like to learn every talent point and what its doing for the class
gritty bobcat
but i hate that im taking a tlent that says
increase ur shadow dance by 200000%
and realy its only like 0.2 %
that is what sucks u know
bc ur expecting something crazy but its horrible
also idk why people like cold blood when u alraedy have a godo amount of crit
potent pivot
stealth nerfed modifiers in pvp
Nothing is “stealth nerfed”
potent pivot
You can look at the spell data for every spell in the game
gritty bobcat
bro u know what i mean
like some talents say something in the tool tip
but when u step in the arena the modifiers are different
potent pivot
Yeah you can check all of that
halcyon timber
want to be one of us, yo uhave to learn our ways
potent pivot
Wowhead has every pvp modifier in the game in the spell data
halcyon timber
shouldn't expect anything to be crazy, it's all cumulative and that's what makes cool stuff happen
macabre is just new school find weakness
gritty bobcat
lol
potent pivot
You can go right click a pvp dummy and your tooltip will reflect pvp combat
gritty bobcat
so wheere can i set up my talents
where im permanitly in pvp combat
i dont want to hit a pvp dummy
to reactive it
eveyr 5 second
gritty bobcat
bro why should i have to do that
it should be int he game
wtf is this women garbage
potent pivot
You’re playing an MMO
halcyon timber
it does in reflect it while smacking the dummy as reflective of the pvp changes in pvp for pvp combat
potent pivot
And complaining about using a website
outer sky
Ya know what would be a good pvp talent addition to assa?
"Extend the duration of your bleeds by X%"
So we don't have to babysit then so much
potent pivot
it'd be nice if rupture did more dam, or had an instant damage to it or something
wintry dew
wtf is this women garbage
why women
potent pivot
gar is all of our dam while being a builder and rupture is a finisher but does half the damage
outer sky
Deathstalker adds a decent amount of damage to rupture
potent pivot
yeah but it's still like half of gar isn't it?
just going off the breakdowns you've posted from beta
prolly had more garrotes out in general but still
gritty bobcat
@wintry dew bc man
outer sky
The additional damage isn't coded as rupture
wintry dew
<@256188402116984832> bc man
yes?
outer sky
It's "corrupt the blood"
wintry dew
Idk if youre 15 yo or 40
gritty bobcat
26
potent pivot
It's "corrupt the blood"
ah word
gritty bobcat
I step into the arena to crush my opponent
wintry dew
I totally agree on that
but this is a discord server
the more polite you are, the better people feel on helping you
gritty bobcat
what about death from above?
halcyon timber
corrupt the blood dealing plague is also nice as it gets amped from both specializations and their respective kits
candid condor
Whats the point of playing wow if u cant be offensive
Are you sure thats a path you want to go down
outer sky
Yeah and the extended rupture duration is nice too
halcyon timber
Yeah it is
The choice node with Symbolic victory - can't remember the name is also kinda slick too.
wintry dew
Are you sure thats a path you want to go down
Guess he found another path
nova viper
@jolly sierra seeeexoooo
jolly sierra
<@239851547935113216> seeeexoooo
SEXOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
outer sky
The choice node with Symbolic victory - can't remember the name is also kinda sl...
Lingering darkness
halcyon timber
Lingering darkness
right on yeah that one
outer sky
I think symbolic victory is probably better
halcyon timber
I dig SV but yeah LD still has some good uses
halcyon timber
I don't min max the fun out of everything worrying my head about things man. that 20% is still useful for 30s and can be rolled into a CD as an example. It's up to you to find the custom trigger for it. If one doesn't like it, they can skip it.
It's a "it depends" option and that's cool
outer sky
Also, in case anyone is wondering, this hero talent is bugged. Doing what the tooltip says, 0 damage
halcyon timber
They reduced it in the notes to 0 as they are working on it
Same w subterfuge crud going on , all being worked on.
outer sky
I don't min max the fun out of everything worrying my head about things man. tha...
the reason I think SV is better is because it will give you a big envenom inside a kidney shot with shiv. LD can really only be used reliably to buff kingsbane and even then you have to time it. I'm also not 100% sure playing kingsbane is even good, either
Ive been testing a lot of builds and so far this is giving me the best results
vital socket
u like bonespike ?
outer sky
I think so
vital socket
it use to break sap/blind not sure if its still like that
outer sky
its doing more overall damage than kingsbane was doing and it adds that bit of extra rot damage
it will break sap, not blind
blind will remove it
But into comps where I dont think I can cleave effectively I'd probably drop CT and IC
and play KB and MA
with coldblood and lethality
halcyon timber
Yeah agreed star, both do the same if you line it up
both are solid but yeah SV is cool as heck
outer sky
I actually think theyre both kind of useless in pvp
as long as this bleed build is our best set up
6 games worth of envenom damage
buff that by 15-20% its still garbage
ngl assa rogue feels so bad right now if you cant cleave
you dont have enough ST pressure
if splay is good in s1 and we stay like this it's over
and no I'm not "dooming"
just stating a fact about the game as it sits rn
outer sky
lol.....
vital socket
time to nerf rogues again
nova jay
so outlaw and sub just does no dmg rn with the bugged armor values?
potent pivot
so outlaw and sub just does no dmg rn with the bugged armor values?
yeh
nova jay
were you cleaving lock pets
outer sky
with CT yeah
halcyon timber
That match is like sticking a toothpick under your fingernails jeeze
halcyon timber
lol.....
A 20% buff to chaos bolt brought them to 1.6M? They were doing like 800k last week. Really not understanding what changed.
potent pivot
A 20% buff to chaos bolt brought them to 1.6M? They were doing like 800k last we...
they're doing like 6m on beta
outer sky
This wicked cleave thing for demo is pumping too
outer sky
resto shaman is bugged af on beta right now
its one shotting people
yes, resto
and whatever kills you doesnt even show on details
breakdown from the last lobby using the big bleeds build
Which of these 2 weapon enchants do y'all think is better?
potent pivot
Which of these 2 weapon enchants do y'all think is better?
i would try the mastery one first
1600 agi isn't much considering we have like ~60k agi almost in TWW
outer sky
it also does damage
potent pivot
ik
outer sky
maybe one of each?
potent pivot
whichever one is better will likely be used 2x
outer sky
yeah true
potent pivot
but you could test by using 1x of each
just for the sake of trying em out
80k damage isn't a lot
outer sky
Also I think we want to play the proc trinket instead of the on use one
potent pivot
possibly
one use without kb might be a little meh
i'm not sure what the proc chances are
but i assume it'll be similar to the DF one
outer sky
its a decent proc rate
2x of these mastery enchants is 20% mastery
which is really good
outer sky
one use without kb might be a little meh
yeah if I played KB i'd probably go back to the on use
potent pivot
2x of these mastery enchants is 20% mastery
yeah that's kinda nuts
on wowhead the agi one says it gives 10k agi
so maybe there's some error with the one on beta
sophic devo already gave like 1k agi didn't it?
potent pivot
buff the bleeds already on the target right?
ye
pretty much everything in wow works dynamically
halcyon timber
Physically compare for sure
halcyon timber
Would test dummy it and calculate avg before and after
Make a line of best fit and go from there using a healthy sample size of trials
outer sky
I think I'll try a few lobbies and see if my bleeds are ticking harder with one enchant vs another
halcyon timber
Thing is defense and other stuff may skew it a bit as the constant isn’t the same lobby of enemies each time. That’s accidently fudging the data.
outer sky
id mostly just be looking to see what my max ticks are
worthy crag
yall gotta change your name colors to red
halcyon timber
Subtlety rain or shine is all Ill ever be. I can appreciate assassination but i have zero interest outside of data collection.
outer sky
lmfai this game I swear
halcyon timber
The radiant one seemed to proc slightly more often,the storm blast hits slightly harder and the depths dot was comparable and stacked often as well for fellow research notes
potent pivot
3340 agi or 7820 mastery
How long is the agi buff
outer sky
12s
potent pivot
Same proc rates?
If the mastery one procs more often I’m leaning towards that one
But in theory 3300 agi vs 7800 mastery I think the agi wins
outer sky
But in theory 3300 agi vs 7800 mastery I think the agi wins
not to mention the proc damage
Proc trinket has crazy good uptime
Mastery enchant uptime
Gunna do the next lobby with the agi one
see what the uptime is
potent pivot
Gunna do the next lobby with the agi one
Kinda have to test that on a dummy I think
Game length will fuck with it no?
outer sky
% should still be the same even if the overall time isnt right?
potent pivot
It’ll have a small variance based on the amount of procs I think?
Especially in shuffle because it’s 6 matches
outer sky
ok
according to WoW head
agi one procs 3x per minute
mastery one procs 2x per minute
so
agi is better i think
digital mason
is assass also gimp af right now with the armor scaling? i feel like im doing like nothing
outer sky
is assass also gimp af right now with the armor scaling? i feel like im doing li...
its the least affected because poisons and bleeds dont care about armor
digital mason
i just feel like im doing no dmg. envenoms hitting for 1/36th of an enemys health
avg envenom is like 55k rn, feelsbadman
outer sky
i just feel like im doing no dmg. envenoms hitting for 1/36th of an enemys healt...
envenom is trash in pvp anyway
but its not mitigated by armot
armor*
everyone has a bit more vers
and stamina
so that could be it
digital mason
yeah could be, just feels pretty crap. i know i shouldnt base prepatch on any sort of example of tww but damn lol
outer sky
Ive played maybe 50 2v2 games on retail since pre-patch dropped and I'm still able to hold my own around the 2400-2500 range
outer sky
im not rbging for now
I dont get it. What am I looking at?
jolly sierra
I dont get it. What am I looking at?
legionnary
digital mason
star, what is your basic opener rn for assass 1v1? just curious
outer sky
star, what is your basic opener rn for assass 1v1? just curious
what class am I 1v1ing?
digital mason
lock for example
outer sky
legionnary
oh sick congrats dude
digital mason
just looking for basic solid dmg opener, because what im doing AINT it lol
jolly sierra
oh sick congrats dude
ty ty
outer sky
well your opener will depend on what youre fighting
against a lock I'd do
I actually have to think
hold on lol
ok i got it
jolly sierra
garrote perhaps at first?
digital mason
gotcha
outer sky
The only class I ever garrote first in a 1v1 is a mage
because I can garrote>cheap shot them
and because theyre still silenced they cant blink the stun
digital mason
truee nice
jolly sierra
discovered something
if u buy the pvp classic xmogs
u get the opposite faction xmogs too
outer sky
truee nice
but in a real match obv the other players on the enemy team change that
surreal barn
Niiiice congrats
steel scarab
Good job!
outer sky
lmfao how much damage do I have to do jfc
this is what I mean
I'm doing a fuck ton of damage but have no kill pressure
Okay the fact that cheap shot isnt working with subterfuge is actually really fucking me
outer sky
right now I'm running TWO of the damage proc embelleshments and its only doing this much damage
Elemental Focusing lens
6m
across 6 games
thats with 2 of them
there's gotta be something better but
that vers one aint it
theres a crit one
gives the same amount of crit
so
even worse
theres one that gives you a small shield when you drop below 20%
but its small and only can proc once every 5m
so thats probs trash
Anyone here know what "Blashphemite Secondary Effects" are?
oh
theyre gems
and theyre useless to us
potent pivot
yeah that's not even 10% health
outer sky
yeah its like 7%
outer sky
It looks like theyre trying to cut down on borrowed power
but they went a bit too far and just made these things feel unimpactful
If I wasn't a rogue main I'd be complaining that the damage taken while stunned gem is only 5%
halcyon timber
It was 15 and it was ridiculous
outer sky
yeah thats fucked
jolly sierra
the thing is
halcyon timber
Tack that on each class having 5-8% or whatever in each hero tree + class / spec kits
jolly sierra
they made it so underwhelming than is even skippable
halcyon timber
That shield was wise to not be ridiculous
jolly sierra
without very great changes
halcyon timber
Its supplementary
halcyon timber
Ol grass cape or whatever people abused lead to that
Optional is good, not making necessities is wise
outer sky
What a great game
outer sky
the lock went 5-1 and one shot someone all 5 times
halcyon timber
Its fine man, its completely ok for him to. Hes a warlock, life is hard for cultists.
jolly sierra
balanced
outer sky
the only time he lost was a round against me
and thats just because
his big bolt proc'd my cheat
jolly sierra
funny how his gimmick fails by a flawed talent
outer sky
love me some classic solo shuffle toxicity
jolly sierra
lol