pvp

[stoic spruce]

Prot warrior and surv hunter specifically

Oh shit

I could give them matching pirate outfits :D

[grave basin]

lol we're basically playing the same classes

but i dont play prot

[vocal surge]

storage device stopped working

cant recover, gotta reinstall all

[late nova]

What it is a good combination to use for a single target talent tree, in PVP? I tried killing a Druid but he was too tanky. Im quite new and still working on the item lvl(491)

[stoic spruce]

SSD?

Also

Is your WA still working?

[vocal surge]

Yup

dont got my WAs anymore

or installations

Installing multiple games at once rn

[stoic spruce]

What are you installing?

[vocal surge]

WoW, StarCraft 2, Epsilon WoW, MineCraft, Content Warning, Warcraft 1 & 2, etc.

[grave basin]

What spec brother

[late nova]

assassination

[indigo hill]

Druids are pure filth right now. Especially resto and balance. To much healing, damage, defence and let's not forget cyclone.

I'm aware that my answer doesn't help your question but it did give me a chance to rant a bit about druids. 😄

[late nova]

It actually helps lol. I don’t know anything about other classes.

[grave basin]

Assa doesn't use an ST build

It's based around spreading bleeds

And using kingsbane on whatever you wanna kill

Spread empowered garrotes + ruptures

[gilded ginkgo]

Hey im new here, I wanted to ask more experienced players, if all the rogue negativity is warranted? I dont really want to play anything else and every other post on reddit is how bad rogues are, and even youtube comments about classes. Is this legit, are people panicking for no reason and it can be fixed with a couple of tuning patches or is it fundamentally bad? Thanks

[vital socket]

it is prepatch, so balancing isnt gonna be the same

[wintry dew]

Its mostly numbers tuning

there are a lot of classes doing way more dmg than they should

and a lot of other classes doing way less than they should

not counting the bugs that affect positively and negatively all the specs

[blissful osprey]

The meta changes like the wind. Play a class that you enjoy the feel and fantasy for

Rogue if busted on release will be giga by the end of the S2 for sure

Sub is awful now though. That’s for sure. Outlaw will be okay for keys with consistent AOE but nothing amazing. Assassination will be okay in all content, probably pretty strong for progress raiding

[late nova]

Oh… I copied a talent tree from whispyrs post

[wintry dew]

thats PVE stuff

[grave basin]

Did it on my phone

But you can copy this

@late nova

[grave basin]

Baseline rogue kit is good and will almost always be viable for arena / blitz

What people are unhappy about is the clear lack of direction for the specs moving forward and the hero talents being completely passive (fatebound) to straight up DPS losses (trickster)

Also another expac of doubling down utility for damage , killing spree every 20 seconds now as part of your kit which is nausea inducing and 9 different mini CDs for sub which all don't even align

[vital socket]

they feel bad in blitz rn

[vital socket]

yeah outlaw has to many rng shit going

[gilded ginkgo]

@grave basin yeah i do find the spec has way too many keybinds and mini cds compared to other specs

[grave basin]

Armor bug making melee specs not very good rn, I'm talking about in general

Number tuning aside

If you enjoyed dragonflight rogue, then welcome to DF 2.0 with a few new bells and whistles

[vital socket]

what is the bug exactly ?

[vital socket]

I just want my dfa back 😢 only disappointment is hero talents honestly

[grave basin]

They've reset the scaling of armor

So we're using tww season 1 armor scaling but we're low level

So every1 has 30-80% armor atm

My mage has 30% armor which is what you'd expect of plate at lvl 80

[vital socket]

meanwhile i got hit by 850k wailing arrow today

[grave basin]

Wailing arrow is shadow no?

[vital socket]

ah i see , explains why my evis hits like a wet noodle

[vital socket]

ya just funny balance in prepatch

[grave basin]

The "good" news is that all 3 rogue specs are dogwater in pve on the beta

[vital socket]

i havent seen many dhs thou

[grave basin]

So tuning wise we are getting buffed for sure

[vital socket]

are they any better in pvp on the beta lol

[vital socket]

COPIUM OVERLOAD

[grave basin]

No one will know this until they finish tuning

That goes for any spec

[vital socket]

true

[grave basin]

Missed opportunity for sure

[late nova]

thanks a ton, copying rn

[vital socket]

100% all 3 hero specs feel like a last second thought

[potent pivot]

idk where you're cooking up these ideas, but a lot of it is incorrect

[grave basin]

I mean I actually don't care if the hero talent is completely passive if it acted like a class skin

[potent pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/misinformation-spreading-spreading-misinformation-online-gif-4543841945782036495

[vital socket]

has anyone tried rotten gloomblade build KEKW or pure mastery outlaw

[grave basin]

Like riders of the apocalypse is highly regarded but it's almost 100% passive

But it lets you summon the boys

Which is cool

[vital socket]

yeah but themes feel rather empty and forgetable

fuck i cant even rmemeber the name to ass/outlaw one

[potent pivot]

mastery is about to be outlaw's worst stat again

[vital socket]

i was getting like 50k hits with it in an arena Lmao

[grave basin]

Now you need 25% haste just for AR to go back to baseline strength

Enjoy your stat tax larping as scaling

[vital socket]

just duo with a priest to pi u DUH

https://tenor.com/view/tkt-smart-gif-20642718

[grave basin]

True 🤣

Proper haste scaling is what they've done with ww

With momentum boost and rising dawn

So it's not like they "can't" do it well

[late nova]

any recommendation on how to set up the keybinds? I cant seem to find a page myself

[indigo hill]

Hard to say what works best for you. I always keep the most used abilities within a comfortable range of my fingers. The shift key abilities I keep for lesser used ones.

I use the side buttons on my mouse for shadowstep and grappling hook.

[late nova]

Damn that’s a dope idea

I was totally struggling in raids and dungeons because my key binds were everywhere

Total grandpa mode

[wanton breach]

stuff you need to press often (builder, spender) or fast (defensive cooldowns, kick, mobility) should be on the fastest keybinds - other stuff gets less priority

[potent pivot]

for pvp you want CC on quick keybinds as well

kick/mobility not as much

it's diff for everyone, but a lot of rogues play with cheap and kindey on accessible binds like 2,4,E etc

[late nova]

this is my current one for dungeons, for pvp I dont have 1 lol

[late nova]

wouldn't you need E for side step?

[potent pivot]

i use A and D for strafe

you can use Q and E for strafe if you want, but unbind A and D from turning

[late nova]

wow thats a game changer

i prefer these controls

[potent pivot]

keyboard turning is really bad

[late nova]

yeah im changing it now

[potent pivot]

use your mouse to turn, using Q,E or A,D for strafe

in pvp you CC a lot more than you might be needed to in dungeons

[late nova]

damn thanks for the controls advice

im thinking of binding Q and E for cc

like kidney shot?

[potent pivot]

give it a shot and play around with it. everyone's got diff preferences so what you end up with may be different as you play and get a feel for it

[indigo hill]

I got r for kidney and shift r for stun free trinket. Got v for stealth and shift v for vanish.

[potent pivot]

i've got an mmo mouse so my binds are kinda weird

[late nova]

what do you guys think?

[gusty hedge]

start binding
quick keybind mode is easy to use if you already have an idea

[tawdry imp]

rogue forces me to use every key on the planet

Q, E, R, F, C, V, T, G, all the shift modifiers

[wintry dew]

We can't really think much, everyone has different keybinds

i do used all mouse combinations like side buttons, CTRL + side buttons, f1-4

X, F, G

etc

[tawdry imp]

even with all the keys and shift modifiers I have no space for arena1,2,3 etc

do many people here play with a naga/mmo mouse?

[fast imp]

I just use an Xbox controller lol

[gusty hedge]

damn i dont have any shift modification macros or arena macros. just focus macros

[gusty hedge]

these my binds, pic from before prepatch. testing f1-f5 and ctrl binds but still find them hard to swap to. so most are still unbinded

[late nova]

oooo that looks cool

[tawdry imp]

no cheap shot?

[steel scarab]

@jolly sierra is the queue seriously an hour now? If so I'm done with rated BGs lol

[late nova]

I was thinking of doing that but i was worried that i wouldnt be able to use all the spells

[fast imp]

Key binds aren’t an issue. Plenty of keybinds. Targeting is the real problem.

[potent pivot]

yeh. i hate to make it sound like spending money on some out of game peripheral is a good thing, but i honestly could not play this game without my mmo mouse.

[tawdry imp]

yeah I can imagine that, no matter how i set up my keybinds I can't help but yearn for the mmo mouse

[potent pivot]

it's possible, by using a lot of modifiers (ctrl,shift,alt), but i prefer to use as few of those as possible personally

these are my binds atm

N1-9(numberpad 1-9) are mouse buttons, as well as 0,-,=

top right is Focus123, Target123, Blind123

i used to use F1, F2, F3 for those before using the mmo mouse

[late nova]

i ended up keybinding 1234QER & SHIFT + 1234QER and 2 buttons on my mouse

seemed the simplest way for me

[tawdry imp]

interesting, so you can easily blind someone specific with 1 button and easily switch for anything else

[spring bough]

i use about the same too. also shift+W, z, x, c,v are all good ones too

[tawdry imp]

that's what's really appealing to me about the mouse concept

I really don't want to be doing some ctrl modifier hand twister to reflexively blind an off target ASAP mid arena

[indigo hill]

@late nova I use this.

[potent pivot]

yeah, some people do it with more than just blind too. i prefer to only do it with blind because it has a bit more range than other cc.

i also just use focus modifier macros for stuff like sap, kick, etc

[steel scarab]

@potent pivot agree Trickz, game is absolutely unplayable without a Naga equivalent

[wintry dew]

I don't own one and I do just fine

[steel scarab]

How do you keep everything bound, Royal?

[gusty hedge]

looks nice and simple, i dig it

[wintry dew]

I just don't use 90% of the macros

I have focus blind and focus gouge and that's it

[steel scarab]

I use zero macros and I still have like 36 keybinds

[gusty hedge]

[gusty hedge]

[potent pivot]

yeah i mean it's doable, just not for me

[steel scarab]

Granted, this pic is a month or two old, so the ability pruning helped. We no longer have Shadow Dance

[wintry dew]

A lot of stuff there could be removed

[gusty hedge]

nice, i use a diff version of those WA but the placement of utilities/ moved from mid , too congested

[wintry dew]

I did almost reach 2.4 like this, so it works xD

[potent pivot]

i have over 40 keybinds

[steel scarab]

@gusty hedge I just recently made the WA UI much smaller, because I agree, it clogs the screen

[potent pivot]

and that's not including my focus modifier macros

[tawdry imp]

what mmo mice do people here like?

[gusty hedge]

thats crazy, i cant break past 1800 on rogue 😭

[potent pivot]

the one i use is no longer made

[steel scarab]

@wintry dew what would you remove? The pvp and pve abilities could be removed in certain content, like Dismantle, Tricks of the Trade, Smoke Bomb, and so on, but then that messes with your muscle memory

[potent pivot]

so i'd suggest razer naga

[gusty hedge]

whoa

[gusty hedge]

u can adjsut the size ? i had no clue , i jsut made the whole ui scale smaller

[potent pivot]

i have a razer naga and a logitech g600(no longer made)

[steel scarab]

@tawdry imp I have the Razer Naga. Don't misunderstand me, I think the company is absolute garbage and the build quality is a mere shadow of what it was 20 years ago

[tawdry imp]

was looking at that logitech one but yeah it's gone, looks like naga is the most common now

[steel scarab]

But the Naga is the most ergonomic mmo mouse

[potent pivot]

steelseries just made an mmo mouse too

it looks good

[steel scarab]

I've had the Logitech one and the Corsair one. The corsair software is absolutely garbage. In fairness so is the Razer software

[gusty hedge]

naga is good fr, mne is currently broken, right click stopped working , been using corsair mouse with 2 side buttons as replacement (harpoon)

[steel scarab]

@potent pivot did they really?! I would definitely buy that

[tawdry imp]

when I didn't play MMOs, mmo mice I thought they looked absurd and now they look like god's gift to man

[potent pivot]

oop

[wintry dew]

Potions, drums, dagger on use, and ... A dungeon portal?

[potent pivot]

https://www.amazon.com/SteelSeries-Aerox-Wireless-Ultra-Lightweight-Programmable/dp/B09VNPB6Q1/ref=asc_df_B09VNPB6Q1/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693459401938&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17816368714708286276&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010908&hvtargid=pla-1651051252200&mcid=baf1504b78523d2692ea890b5aca34bc&gad_source=1&th=1

[steel scarab]

@gusty hedge you can adjust the size! There's a WA setting called UI scale or something. Set it to 0.6

Takes up way less room. Makes your cooldowns a bit harder to see but well worth the real estate space

[tawdry imp]

that's one light mouse

[steel scarab]

@potent pivot I am literally immediately buying this online. My only concern is the holiness of it. Seems like a mouse for paladins

[potent pivot]

shit i may buy one myself whenever my logitech dies

[steel scarab]

(Bad joke, but seriously, all those holes are going to hold onto dust and grime)

[potent pivot]

i just don't think buying a 3rd mouse is going to do me any good right now

[gusty hedge]

good lookin!

[potent pivot]

yeah the holes do let in dust, makes cleaning more of a pain. but the mouse is lighter and i think your palm sweats less? not sure

[steel scarab]

I almost lost a rated BG two days ago because 4, 5, and 6 on my Naga STOPPED WORKING

[potent pivot]

that's why i always keep a back up mouse now

[steel scarab]

Of course, Cheap Shot is 4, Tea is 5, mount is 6

Imagine me mid BG freaking out and frantically CLICKING my abilities

[potent pivot]

my first naga died mid raid and i was lucky i hadn't given my old mouse to my lil bro yet

[steel scarab]

Really gives you a taste of humility when you're forced to click your abilities and realize that's how probably 95% of players play the game lol

[potent pivot]

nah i don't think that many people click lol

@wintry dew you watching the rwf?

[wintry dew]

Yep

[potent pivot]

same

have you seen the ex trial wings

i want them so bad

[wintry dew]

They are going huge vs the Chinese team

[wintry dew]

They are really good

[steel scarab]

@wintry dew potions need to be bound. Same with Warlock healthstone. When you need those, you need them now

That said, I did unbind the Cruel Dreamcarver. I'm... not even sure it does anything. It definitely doesn't work in pvp. But even in M+ I'd click it and never see a buff

[potent pivot]

aren't they JP?

[wintry dew]

Oops. One of both, I didn't look properly

[potent pivot]

or are they just JP servers

[wintry dew]

Only works in PvE and it's a Perma buff related to the enemy type you use it against. You can type !dagger in spec channels or wow-general

[steel scarab]

And yes, the dungeon portal I moved to my sidebar lol

@wintry dew does it give a tooltip buff? I'd always activate it on cd in M+ but never noticed any self buff so I assumed it wasn't doing anything

[wintry dew]

Yes it gives you a Perma buff

[steel scarab]

Maybe I just missed the tooltip buff somehow?

[grave basin]

healthstone is definately a bind

you can use the same bind as shadowlands kyrian pot

[waxen meteor]

you all playing solo bg now?

been only on remix lately

[wintry dew]

You can get old vanilla sets with that

[grave basin]

the cr gains on solo blitz is abysmal

for how long the queue + game is

i think im like 5-0 and im not even 500cr

[spring bough]

i get anywhere from 10-20 per win. cant ever tell why i get more sometimes. im up to 1900 and its been like 60 games lol

also on losses sometimes lose 0 or sometimes up to 15 also can never tell there why the difference lol

[grave basin]

yea it';s so slow

considering you need 4x the amount of people as 2v2

youd think it would give shuffle like cr jumps

[spring bough]

like i was in a lobby with 2100 players the other day and lost. lost 10 rating. next game? 1800 lobby lost and didnt lose any rating lol

ques arent taking longer than 5 minutes tho so its nice and some games only last 5-6 minutes

[grave basin]

youre queuing as what class?

[spring bough]

solo que could wait for 30 minutes and play for 15 almost lol

hunter right now

[grave basin]

i wanna queue as warr to get the plate

but warr is so dog atm

[spring bough]

survival gonna be a blast in TWW. outlaw looking fun as hell too

was just doing the fate coin hero talents and that talent does the 2nd most overall dmg testing it on a dummy lol

[waxen meteor]

60 wins for 1900....?

60 wins is like 60 hours i assume...

[grave basin]

i really dont like the rework

but that's my subjective opinion

[waxen meteor]

i might try outlaw in tww

[grave basin]

constantly needing to weave in KC which hits for a wet noodle to keep up tip

not what i wanted

[spring bough]

its not all wins lmao. it went fast at first but once u hit around 1600 its 10-20 a win lol

[surreal barn]

You’ll get more when the ceiling rises

[waxen meteor]

it sounds like there's mmr reason

[spring bough]

theres people out there at 2200 already its crazy

[waxen meteor]

not sure how mmr works in solo bg

but i guess you really need to win several in a row

[spring bough]

and it wouldnt have been 60 hours of games lol. at most like 8 hours

[waxen meteor]

how fast is the queue though

[spring bough]

5 min max

[waxen meteor]

oh that's decent

[spring bough]

games are like 8 min max. they have a time limit

[waxen meteor]

not bad

[spring bough]

i think ive got an achieve for under 6 minutes on every map so far

there is an under 5 minute one too

[spring bough]

oh we back and live brothers

with a new cinematic at that

[warped gate]

Hahaha, this is literally an anime recap episode.

[indigo hill]

Harsh life for rogue now. I keep losing every solo bg on that one. Keep winning on my hunter though.....🤔

[wintry dew]

if a bg is a bunch of players, i'd say thats a team issue, not a rogue issue

[muted abyss]

Did they fix honor transferring?

[indigo hill]

Doesnt look like it.

[muted abyss]

Ugh

[outer sky]

wait wtf

I won 4 and got 0 rating?

[indigo hill]

What's the mmr on it?

[outer sky]

like 2.5

[indigo hill]

Weird. Should get a bit of rating then.

[wanton breach]

outdamaging 2 ele shamans and not even getting rewarded 😦

[steel scarab]

@grave basin Does... does that shadowlands kyrian pot still work?

[wintry dew]

Probably not

[potent pivot]

no, lol

it might work when you're in SL zones or some shit, but that'd be all

[steel scarab]

I wonder if the portable creature still works? What was it, a bank, a mailbox, etc?

I forgot it existed

[potent pivot]

you mean the NPC you summoned to reup on the health pots?

i think you could use it as something else but idr

[steel scarab]

Yes, that one

It was a bird iirc

[shy nebula]

Does Cold Blood work with Kingsbane?

Or what do you use CB with as Assassination?

Do I just use it with Envenom?

[potent pivot]

only works on the initial hit

same with dots, it'll only work on the first tick

personally i wouldn't recommend using it as assa

more people are running alacrity -> deeper strat

[shy nebula]

not even for BGs?

[wanton breach]

not even for bgs

[shy nebula]

thanks a lot

[pale storm]

Can you still get arena achieves in this off time? As in like 2.2, 2.4, 2.7 etc?

[jolly sierra]

the only thing u cant get are seasonal challengers and stuff like that

everything else should be available

im about to sacrifice hemotoxine for manuv in rbgs

should i?

[lucid citrus]

Nahh keep Hemotoxin

[jolly sierra]

kk

actually that saved me in AB

i forgot poisons so i used hemo against the ret and died when i tried to cap the base

(well. ret wasnt good actually xd)

guy tried to cap in bubble

[indigo hill]

Solo bg must be the worst thing they added. eye of the storm people keep standing at bases that are not active...

They need add a trial version people need to do first before they can queue for rated.

[jolly sierra]

ill call u

james 2

[outer sky]

No new tuning notes? 😦

[jolly sierra]

they ninjafixed azerite sonic shoes trait

now it gives 8% max down from 63

[spring bough]

finding out you can set curse installer to auto updates has been life changing

[steel scarab]

@jolly sierra eye of the storm is objectively awful though, he's not wrong

All the other BGs are very good

[spring bough]

im gonna second this. eye of the storm is the only shit one. 2/4 of the bases are active until a flag is capped and then they swap. god awful design / map for that game. they probably coulda thought of something diff

and getting knocked off the map by the 20 clases that have knock back abilities now... dont even get me started with that infuriation lol

[outer sky]

I dont like the base capping mechanics on them. Where you have to wait for the timer to be able to cap the base.

[nova viper]

@jolly sierra seeeeeeeeeeeexo

[warped gate]

Fam. I know I haven't perfected my rotation on my new Outlaw Rogue but goddamn, I feel like I'm tickling my opponent's balls with my abilities. Looking at my Details at the end of arenas is depressing as all fuck.

[surreal barn]

😆

🪶 🥜

[potent pivot]

with the weird armor scaling shit rn i would not be expecting outlaw to do anything more than tickling tbh

[warped gate]

We got literal weeks until we can level again, I can't believe Blizzard would be cool with leaving us like this for so long.

[grave basin]

Can only use in shadowlands zones

[spring bough]

go on reddit... see about three posts "pre patch in shambles". there is always something lol

how do yall feel about this vanish update for pvp? guaranteed stealth from 3 sec to 1.5 sec

[lucid citrus]

where's teh vanish update found? i want to read about it

[spring bough]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/the-war-within-pre-patch-patch-notes-345356#comments

is it live? i havent been able to play rogue in rated yet

[potent pivot]

o.O ....

i don't think that was their thought process at all

it has nothing to do with the charges not being on CD concurrently

same with the shadow dance changes

sure

but that still has nothing to do with whether or not the people who designed the abilities know how they cooldown or not

like at that point you're just being overly negative and trying to shit on them for no reason

them not wanting us to have 6s total stealth has 0 to do with the cooldown

[jolly sierra]

SEXOOOOOO

[jolly sierra]

i didnt say that for it, but because you both complains A LOT about stuff

[potent pivot]

if you really think about the shadow dance -> without a trace changes, the only thing that actually matters is that they should make our subterfuge windows more impactful

[steel scarab]

@jolly sierra I'm usually objectively right about the things I complain about

[potent pivot]

there's no issue with going from dance every 1m -> vanish every 2m as long as the subterfuge window is more impactful than dance was before

dance being available to all 3 specs was too homogenizing

[steel scarab]

My biggest complaint about solo shuffle arena was always the queue time. It is blatantly disrespectful to the playerbase to expect us to sit in queue for 30-40 minutes per game.

That's not up for debate. It's awful, and nobody is wrong to complain about that.

[jolly sierra]

even with that you complain way too much and feels annoying tbh

[grave basin]

New tuning

https://www.wowhead.com/news/war-within-beta-dev-notes-more-class-tuning-and-augmentation-nerfs-345561

[jolly sierra]

we are fully aware about BS

[steel scarab]

Then mute me dude, idk what to tell you

[jolly sierra]

but we just deal w it

[steel scarab]

It's a public forum

[grave basin]

New tuning new tuning new tuning

[jolly sierra]

nah tbh dont care

but just feels annoying reading constant complains and doing nothing

happens irl too

[potent pivot]

is it even tuning?

i see feedback posts

nvm

[spring bough]

fatebound damage inc 50% LOL. shit its already critting for 400k or so. that is gonna be ridiculous

and doing 2nd most overall dmg on outlaw. its about to be the top dmg ability lol

[jolly sierra]

magnificent

[potent pivot]

@grave basin new tuning

in case you didn't know

[grave basin]

Top specs rn usually have a lot of power in their hero talents

[spring bough]

10% auto and ability dmg inc for outlaw too. sounds reallllllllyyyy nice

[grave basin]

Noted with thanks

[potent pivot]

assa got another 10% as well

can tell they really don't want to accidentally over buff sub tho

[spring bough]

the 1% more on each heads coin is going to be nice too

[halcyon timber]

good, exhuasting hearing the fuckin whining about us

[potent pivot]

i mean

people whine about rogue in general

all the time

[halcyon timber]

3 constants in the world:

1. My cat will shit somewhere that isn't nice
2. gravity
3. people always pissy about rogues

[potent pivot]

it's pvp and we are always good

[grave basin]

Hero Talents
Diabolist (Destruction/Demonology)
Felseeker damage increased by 360%.
Chaos Salvo damage increased by 420%.
Wicked Cleave damage increased by 830%.
Ruination damage increased by 70%.
Infernal Bolt damage increased by 70%.

What are these numbers

Buffing by 800%

[jolly sierra]

do u think fatebound will be good anyways?

[halcyon timber]

Agreed , if people would just shaddup and use their full kit that breaks stealth and vanish on purpose then that's less for them to gripe about

[jolly sierra]

dude is way too much RNG

[halcyon timber]

fatebound double cold blood is pretty nasty

[potent pivot]

honestly you would just set it and forget it and let it passively do damage

so as long as the damage is good it's fine

[grave basin]

Fatebound is entirely passive so it's basically details

[jolly sierra]

hope is the case

[potent pivot]

you aren't gonna be playing around it at all like you would be deathstalker

[jolly sierra]

with outlaw i recalled miscoordinating a lot w cds

[halcyon timber]

It's more probability, it evens out and you have a 83% chance to flip on the same side anyway + cold blood / Dm or ADR can guarantee flipping that side anyway

[jolly sierra]

and dice throwing

[grave basin]

I don't think you even play around deathstalker

[potent pivot]

oh you definitely do

[grave basin]

Needing to use max combo point finishers is so annoying

[jolly sierra]

you just land DFAs tho

[grave basin]

Fun fact , echoing reprimand doesn't work with it

[jolly sierra]

lol

[grave basin]

Not sure if it's intended

[potent pivot]

if you stack every envenom modifier you can crit like 3-5m envenoms

[halcyon timber]

yeah because it's supposed to be FULL CB PTS on purpose

not encouraging reprimand cheese

[grave basin]

Who's talking about reprimand cheese

[jolly sierra]

starlink practicased a little w it too

used DFA w CB

[grave basin]

Reprimand blue points are meant to be max combo points

[potent pivot]

no CB

[jolly sierra]

and guy hit like 3m or so

oh true

[halcyon timber]

yes obviously

[potent pivot]

the envenom is guaranteed to crit anyway

[jolly sierra]

was crit anyways

yeye

but was very good dmg compared to KB in DF

[halcyon timber]

they want a rogue to FILL ALL CB pts though mechanically, not use reprimand as a work around

[grave basin]

Yea I'm saying that's dumb

[halcyon timber]

reprimand is still pretty nasty

[grave basin]

Because blue points are max combo points

[halcyon timber]

there's a gimmicky prevention in why they aren't allowing that

it's not dumb, it's mature

[grave basin]

So tell the Dev to whitelist it

It's stupid lol

[halcyon timber]

alright man

[grave basin]

There's no gimmic

It also ensures ER has some strength

[halcyon timber]

it does regardless

there's a math reason why they aren't allowing it and that's likely it whether one agrees or disagrees

[grave basin]

The cap stones have too much disparity in their strength , you're always going double vanish and tea

[jolly sierra]

still think deathstalker is a good option for pvp

[halcyon timber]

Deathstalker will be solid

[jolly sierra]

if u lands big dam every 30s

[halcyon timber]

the 2 bleeds are pretty nice as well

[jolly sierra]

ye, looks solid

[halcyon timber]

fatebound does well as you're spending so many points that you get some good uptime on teh cosmic hits

[jolly sierra]

hmmmmm

[halcyon timber]

Corrupt the blood (new dot) has broken stealth the entire time though testing and has been reported a lot but will be fixed when they get a chance I guess or maybe it is on this new build. Haven't checked yet.

still does solid damage and the execute bleed is pretty sick

[jolly sierra]

do u think it is like sanguine blades coding bug?

[halcyon timber]

definitely and I put that in for reference

when realz asked me about all that back in DF testing we all chimed in and showed him. I'm sure his team is very much aware but they are putting out fires as they get to them.

Trickster is still my fave as it does feel like hemo in a lot of ways, Deathstalker is fun in mixing damage or going pure into finishers vs other stuff you like between Subtlety and Assassination, Fatebound def didn't feel behind either. It is wise they are being careful, really not looking to repeat stun bot land team mate assist crap.

[jolly sierra]

is he aware rn?

[halcyon timber]

He is aware

The devs know , they read all the logs and all the other stuff.

[jolly sierra]

tbh if both are viable im more leaning to deathstalker

[halcyon timber]

Prob not the exact same interaction but it is is similar

all 3 trees are viable

[jolly sierra]

the burst dmg from marks is filthy

by very few time

every 30s seems u can land a nice DFA

[halcyon timber]

trickster is my personal fave as I do enjoy the generators being impactful and unseenblade is like a new hemo and getting the stacking finisher damage is pretty equal to deathstalker and fatebound

[jolly sierra]

with big damage

hemo was a funny button for sub

[halcyon timber]

yeah DFA is pretty dang solid . Assassination definitely hits really really hard with it

[jolly sierra]

i always use it in cata lol

[halcyon timber]

yeah hemo was great, i'm glad they brought back a kinda new version of it

[jolly sierra]

was missed

[halcyon timber]

I'm thankful we have different playstyles between and on each style of rogue and can do different things instead of some nonsense regime itinerary

[jolly sierra]

ye lol

[halcyon timber]

It's definitely more of a "chunk" style like cata instead of some silly hehe my 1 ability smoked you nonsense as well.

[jolly sierra]

hope stays like that

[potent pivot]

some much needed nerfs as well

[jolly sierra]

they did BS w covenants

and cookie cutters for DF

[halcyon timber]

everything is impactful instead of some stupid gimmick taking over . It will stay this way as the devs are tired of fuckin tuning gimmicks too.

[potent pivot]

feel like they need to nerf AMS

[halcyon timber]

AMS is def really strong esp with the riders blanketing people

[potent pivot]

yeah it's kinda out of hand atm

[halcyon timber]

Resto kamehamaha wraths are a jackass festival too

[jolly sierra]

AMS is disgusting w dks sharing it dude

[potent pivot]

even personal AMS is disgusting

[jolly sierra]

the thing left me curious

[potent pivot]

they have to be bad to die

[jolly sierra]

are demonic healthstones

what is the difference?

lol

[halcyon timber]

New warlock healthstones are nasty

can use multi in combat and they heal more if I remember

[jolly sierra]

WHAT

[halcyon timber]

they traded some stuff for it, can't remember

before people start shidding through a silly straw

[jolly sierra]

can be used multiple times?

[halcyon timber]

I dunno, i'm not a warlock primo

[jolly sierra]

F

[halcyon timber]

just something I noticed and briefly read in one of their trees after

I think hellcaller does it, I don't rmember

[jolly sierra]

i see

thought only difference was it was red

XD

[halcyon timber]

just saw some fat kid flying in the air like marry poppins and started doing that stuff while fighting a warrior

[jolly sierra]

got deleted by 500k against locks w chaos bolts

today

[halcyon timber]

yeah shaman hurt a lot on beta too, they can gripe all they want but tempest smacks the taste out of you

[jolly sierra]

in prepatch too

[halcyon timber]

tempest also isn't interuptable

[jolly sierra]

they just lava blast the shit out u

[halcyon timber]

yeah shaman and dk are a bit nuts on live atm

warr somehow deleting people with bladestorm out of nowhwere too

[jolly sierra]

now fury has it too

i was like wtf

fury w bladestorms

[halcyon timber]

yeah fury is very very meathead

def watch out for conduit of the celestials when you fight monks in TWW

and warrior's new ability (forget the name) demolish? hits very very very hard

[jolly sierra]

dude look at wws now

they are using tigereye brew

to turn dmg into wind

i wonder what shit will be good in s1

[plucky escarp]

Are there 3s queues on tww beta? I think me and the boys are going to try that out

[halcyon timber]

They have a lot of wind based attacks again in TWW

[potent pivot]

maybe. will prolly be sitting in the q for a while i think

[plucky escarp]

Hmmm

[halcyon timber]

Dunno, it was usually focused testing but could be

[potent pivot]

better off trying to q skirms

[plucky escarp]

Yeah true we’ll just do that

My buddy is a spriest and it’s doing negative dmg in prepatch for whatever reason. Idk what changed

[halcyon timber]

Shadow is solid, i think there were some bugs though from a blue post

Frost getting buffs too yikes . They do slam as is on beta . Good for them man

[jolly sierra]

hope that compensates their lack to dmg to armors

the idea is being fair w all classes instead having one of them 1 shotting every 10s lol

[halcyon timber]

Oh they do crap on plate hard

[jolly sierra]

not now

[halcyon timber]

They thrash paladins and warr

[jolly sierra]

in prepatch

i say

[halcyon timber]

Go look for the nasty ones instead of the ones who mongo and refuse to press cds

[jolly sierra]

i really hate hunters

they were buffed by A LOT in s4

[halcyon timber]

Hunters are wicked on live and tww

Everyone is pretty good and we are slowly being finessed up without some radical change which is wise

[jolly sierra]

ye

better that than switching entirely what we are used to do

[spring bough]

i like the fact that fel obelisk was removed for warlocks

saw them crying on reddit gave me a good chuckle lmao

[jolly sierra]

XD

dude im still playing blitz

1720 atm

from the 1k4 2 days ago

i think i can do this for tomorrow max

[spring bough]

i think im gonna try for 2k and stop its too much lol

[jolly sierra]

i wanna 2k too

that champion title sounds chad af

its normal rbgs are giving like 20 cr everytime u win?

that would make the grinding long af if is the case

[outer sky]

Shout out to Shamankidboy who somehow turned this into a dub

[idle sundial]

Which spec you guys running in blitz?

[outer sky]

depends on the map

oh wait thats the solo one

I've been playing assass

sub>assass on node maps but

assass>>>>>>>>>>>>sub on other maps

it just feelsbad not having duel

on node maps

[jolly sierra]

got trolled w a duel in a gilneas

luckily just spammed aoes and fucked the cap

[idle sundial]

q'd sub into temple

shit was miserable

sin only from now on lol

[outer sky]

thats the worst map for sub

[spring bough]

just about. sometimes not even that

[jolly sierra]

bruh

seems like qs are dead today after reset in eu

[outer sky]

Gee y'all I think ele shaman may be good

[lunar zinc]

nah probably just fun to play idk

[grave basin]

Yikes

[jolly sierra]

an ele was lit cleaning everyone in our bg

literal if u get 2 eles in ur team = win

[lunar zinc]

i got 4 and got rolled by 4 other dks and was on fking eye of storm

[halcyon timber]

Saw an Ele and a Ret talk about how "unbearable" Assassination is and how "free it is to win as a rogue". Also the ret " we haven't been good since wrath"

[swift smelt]

how’s the buffs on beta?

[inner tartan]

isnt ele completely meta rn

[halcyon timber]

I guess man. I don’t pay mind to that crap

[inner tartan]

fair

[halcyon timber]

The big tuning wave is in a build later this week as reflected in the official post

[swift smelt]

ah i skimmed thought it rolled today, appreciate the clarity

[halcyon timber]

The point is buddy kept running in getting whooped on in a smoke bomb refusing to press anything versus 3 assassins then turning around complaining about it

That ele

[inner tartan]

xd

[halcyon timber]

No problem at all man

[stoic spruce]

Okay but it actually is a little bit of a problem

[spring bough]

damn i didnt have to wait longer than probably 8 minutes last night for games

[tawdry tinsel]

Any suggested pvp talent build for solo and arena for Sub rogues?

[potent pivot]

ye you can check what most ppl run at murlok.io

its also linked in the pins

[tawdry tinsel]

Thank you! very useful!

[spring bough]

how many of yall bought the epic edition to play early?

[gusty hedge]

since i work gy, its nice to play a bit each day before global release, that way im not behind

[spring bough]

3 wins in a row this morning on solo BG and on the 3rd win i get FOUR rating......

[spring bough]

gotta have time to get both chars 80 before official release here lol

[tawdry imp]

are the current physical damage/armour issues in beta or only in prepatch since we don't have all the changes?

[potent pivot]

prepatch

either it will level out to be like beta at level 80 or they may have made a mistake when buffing armor when prepatch came out

[spring bough]

servers back up

[jolly sierra]

i played during late night, is for it i think

[jolly sierra]

tbh not interested, but glad some ppl will be pseudo beta testers and lag issues for getting early access

[sterile lion]

so im confused about these blizz blue posts. do these things affect pvp as well or does it have to specifically be marked as a pvp change and these are just pve things

[potent pivot]

any changes not specified as pvp changes are game wide

when they are specified as pvp changes, they only affect pvp

all of those changes are for the next beta build, so they aren't even added to the beta yet. we won't see them or any of the other buffs from the past week or so until TWW launches.

[spring bough]

used this level 70 TWW boost on a DK. about to reign hell with this OP frost right now lol

[wintry axle]

the tuning looks nice tho

[spring bough]

full greens doing 300k obliterates and frost strikes lol

[surreal barn]

How long does it take to get the prepatch mount?

[spring bough]

what type of mount is it

[surreal barn]

Ugly gryphon

[pliant marsh]

Hey guys sorry if you get this question often I have never ever played rogue and with the new expansion I just have a question, how are rogues currently and for TWW in PVP only I'm talking Bgs solo arenas and WPVP?

In entertaining making one due to new expansion never touched rogue in all my years since vanilla

[wintry axle]

not good, but we're getting buffed every new beta update.

we're fine, but compared to other classes we're on the lower spectrum

[potent pivot]

rogue always has at least 1 very meta spec

if you like rogue, and you want to pvp, you really can't go wrong

[wintry axle]

What he said, if we dont have the damage, we always have the controle that arenas/bgs seek

[potent pivot]

just play whatever class you enjoy the gameplay of, don't worry about whats "S tier" especially before the season starts

[pliant marsh]

Sounds good guys thanks for the quick response, what's the favorable spec you guys run for PVP

[potent pivot]

you can really play any spec in this game and hit every goal that exists, besides maybe being r1 (top 0.5%)

[pliant marsh]

?

Yeah I doubt I'll ever hit that I just wanna have fun pvping but also be somewhat competitive

[potent pivot]

i play all 3, depending on what comps i'm playing with/what i feel like playing

[wintry axle]

Currently assassination, but I like sub more but atm I dont see it being compareable to assa

[potent pivot]

all 3 are good

[pliant marsh]

Thanks guys!

Very helpful

[shy nebula]

are these worth it to buy??

[wanton breach]

to gear an alt? yes
to get gold? yes (best way for conquest-to-gold conversion afaik)
to gamble on items for a half geared character? no

[shy nebula]

I was interested on the last one, thanks!! LMAO

[spring bough]

yeah i send 9 boxes to an alt earlier

got bout 7 straight helmets

[waxen meteor]

does Envenom do some dmg in pvp in tww?

or it's still 3 dots game

[potent pivot]

with deathstalker and every possible modifier it does big dam

Darkest Night (deathstalker capstone talent), 7cp, DfA, Amp poison, shiv, tea, etcetc

[waxen meteor]

hmm okay sounds interesting

we might need to think about spending finishers more on CT or Envenom in Tww?

[potent pivot]

there's really no way to answer that with any certainty atm

the way it's looking right now it'll either be full bleed build like season 3 & 4 running Fatebound hero talents

or it'll be an envenom build running Deathstalker hero talents

[chrome schooner]

amp poison isn't very applicable in serious pvp

too many poison dispels at inconvenient times

it's not reliable

[potent pivot]

yeah i don't think the envenom build will be applicable in 'serious pvp' either, as it's kinda gimmicky

but for 2s, and likely mid range 3s/shuffle i think it could be pretty good

having that kind of damage would allow you to get actual set up kills instead of damp rot games

[spring bough]

i noticed that you get conquest from solo bg losses

about 30 or so but not too bad

[outer sky]

WAIT WHAT

This might save us

when does this hit beta?

[potent pivot]

post says later this week

[halcyon timber]

In the next build ( th/ fri) as stated in the official post

[steel scarab]

+11 rating when I killed 3 EFCs and capture a flag is fucking idiotic

like I am probably 40% of the reason we won that game, why am I only getting +11 rating

[potent pivot]

[candid condor]

[potent pivot]

[twin burrow]

DW it's non ladder pvp. Just play enough and you'll climb. Welfare queue ladders

[jolly sierra]

tf is doing an admin here lol

[candid condor]

You want to try again?

[potent pivot]

someone hit the no-no word filter

[jolly sierra]

what the

[gusty hedge]

[jolly sierra]

when

[potent pivot]

just a moment ago, it gets automatically deleted

[candid condor]

Bro fumbled his words hard

[jolly sierra]

👀

[gusty hedge]

💯

[jolly sierra]

tbh didnt noticed anything

just james wrote then a lot of pepes wtf

[shy nebula]

Heya, idk if this doubt comes up a lot. But I recently picked up sub rogue and I'm giving it a try in BGs. I have half conquest gear half honor gear and I'm finding out in details that my Eviscerates are only dealing around 30k dmg when non-critting. This is happening with SD and SoD on. Can anybody suggest what am i doing wrong?

[potent pivot]

it gets auto deleted in like half a second, most of the time you won't see it lol

[potent pivot]

evis has a phys and a shadow portion and phys damage is kinda fucked right now

[outer sky]

game doesnt care about who does what. Just cr, mmr, and who wins and loses

[jolly sierra]

the only time ive seen something like that was when i said the funny hunter word

ah no

was w rets

lol

[shy nebula]

how is it fcked?

[outer sky]

armor is like 3x stronger than it should be right now. Reducing phys damage taken by 40-60% when before prepatch it was 10-20%

[potent pivot]

armor is fucked atm

[shy nebula]

ooooh

so that's why, ok

[spring bough]

just power level a DK they are pumping so hard its ridiculous

till release atleast Lol

[shy nebula]

I still think it deals less than it should be doing, but that lesser difference is probably on me

I knew I wasn't fcking up THAT bad

[potent pivot]

well you're also undergeared vs prolly mostly geared people

not sure if you're messing up rotationally or not

[outer sky]

with these changes outlaw will pump. Fatebound tails is already doing like 20% of their dam

assass probably needs one more minor buff

llike 3%

[potent pivot]

yeah i'm not sure if i see that staying that way ngl

[outer sky]

watcha mean?

[potent pivot]

like i'm kinda expecting it to be nerfed

[outer sky]

they clearly dont see fatebound as a problem. Theyre buffing it by 50%

[potent pivot]

i'm talking about pvp modifiers

[outer sky]

you mean nerfing it in pvp

?

[potent pivot]

yes

[outer sky]

hope not lol

[potent pivot]

same, but that's just what i'm expecting

[outer sky]

I mean I'd be fine if they nerfed it if they put the damage somewhere else

[potent pivot]

tier sets usually don't do more than +5% damage and they get nerfed by 50% in pvp

[outer sky]

like if they say "a proc shouldnt do this much damage. lets nerf it and buff BtE or pistol shot"

[potent pivot]

so

[outer sky]

id be fine with that

As long as at least one of our specs does damage im fine

[potent pivot]

watching whaazz try outlaw on beta this morning was hilarious

he /afked a shuffle

but then didn't go through with it when the warning popped up

[steel scarab]

It was definitely me

[potent pivot]

ambush/cheap not working, killing spree not working, grappling hook automatically going off @ cursor

so many bugs he couldn't even play lmao

[steel scarab]

Excellent, another win, another +12 points

sigh

[wintry dew]

It's the word that you changed

It's a big bad

[steel scarab]

20 years ago (aka when I was young) people used to say that colloquially and far worse

Times are a changing

[jolly sierra]

noticed something, sounded like an exploit

u can cloak of shadows a caster

and u can cap without issues

unless he attacks u w his wep

[wintry dew]

Full immunity for like 8 seconds?

(to Magic)

[jolly sierra]

5s enough to cap in blitz

[wintry dew]

Wait for real?

[jolly sierra]

i was against a mage and a sp

ye

have the vid

[wintry dew]

I should really try that mode next expansion

[jolly sierra]

ah no

will just be a trust me bro

but worked

[wintry dew]

I don't doubt you

[jolly sierra]

i was not interrupted anytime in the cap because cloak

so i capped the base

[wintry dew]

If cloak covers the entire capping cast

[jolly sierra]

4 seconds in blitz

cloak are 5

ye

[wintry dew]

GG ez

[steel scarab]

I think BG blitz is dead, and I'll explain why with math

A few days ago people were getting +50 points for a win and -10 for a loss

Now it's +12/-12 either way. So basically, to go from 1600 to 1800

You would have to win 16 straight matches

With no losses

[warped gate]

Right now it's a coinflip on how many dudes with gear you got on your team.

[steel scarab]

Yeah it's pretty awful, objectively. Because as we all agree, the score change isn't based at all on individual performance

So you could play incredibly, top damage, top kills, 2 flag captures, 8 flag returns, and lose the same amount of points as everyone else

And the person who AFKed the whole game gets the same

Solo Shuffle works because you're 1 of 3 people and you can make a tremendous difference because you're 33% of the team

It doesn't work having an equal loss of points for everyone when you're 1 of 8 people.

[jolly sierra]

those maths are wrong tbh

u have to consider MMR factor

if u are at 1k6-1k7 CR going to 1k9-2k MMR matches (as happened to me most of time) u wont experiment too much rating losses

cuz that difference

so u can steadily lose a little and still reach the desired rating without too much effort as u are saying

look

[steel scarab]

What does this mean

I don't understand what you're saying

[jolly sierra]

big MMR vs low CR = barely to no lose in rating

[steel scarab]

So you are saying if I am against a team with higher MMR than me I will not lose much

[jolly sierra]

correct

as always

[lucid citrus]

That is why you always want the other team to have a higher mmr than you

[jolly sierra]

basically

[steel scarab]

But you have no control over that

[jolly sierra]

yeah, u dont

but you can have good streaks

where u can avoid CR loss

[plucky escarp]

My biggest issue with BGs is i feel like I have enable the chat for the first time in 5 years to get the full value of the mode

[gritty bobcat]

is sub decent on the pre patch?

[halcyon timber]

Yes, all 3 rogues are fine

[outer sky]

idk about that

sub is probably in the worst spot

assass and outlaw are also undertuned. Will have to see how the buffs affect them

[steel scarab]

When people say pre-patch, are they referring to the current state, or the PTR WITH the hero talents?

I haven't tried the hero talents yet

[potent pivot]

prepatch is live right now

[steel scarab]

The Vanish nerf feels really bad in BGs. We felt really good with 3 seconds of guaranteed stealth, even with the awful bugs that keep knocking us out randomly

Post Vanish nerf it does not feel great

Maybe it'll feel better when they fix whatever bug(s) are causing us to be randomly knocked out of stealth, but no dance and less guaranteed stealth as a defensive = 😦

Paladins seem to hit crazy hard, as do Elemental Shaman

On the plus side I'm guessing Havoc isn't good bc I haven't seen a DH in forever

[potent pivot]

it's prepatch

tuning is w/e atm

[gritty bobcat]

havoc is actually p decent

@steel scarab

[steel scarab]

Nice

[halcyon timber]

we are fine, tuning will happen. Stop dooming so much please.

stuff is always weird on prepatch as we are all just leveling again pretty much. It's expected.

[outer sky]

oh he asked about pre patch

[nova viper]

@jolly sierra seeeeexo

[steel scarab]

I will say, 2 Vanishes feels good

Just the reduced time sucks

Maybe 2 sec instead of 3 or 1.5 would be better?

1.5 seconds is not a long enough duration to get out of the way, from melee range, of every class's invariable AOE ability that always follows the use of vanish

1.5 seconds is literally shorter than the GCD lol

[potent pivot]

wut

no it isn't

am i fried

base GCD is 1.5s

[steel scarab]

aye

So assuming you use Vanish absolutely 100% perfectly

You have a, what... 0.1 second window to not get hit by an AOE ability?

Add in latency and

Yeah, ain't happening lol

[potent pivot]

i mean i don't think that's how that scenario plays out

[steel scarab]

3 seconds felt good, probably too good tbh, but 1.5 seconds went too far

I think 2 is a completely reasonable compromise

[potent pivot]

you press vanish -> they have to notice you press it -> wait for their next GCD -> press their next GCD

the reaction time is on your side

like you're the one benefitting from it

[steel scarab]

Dude I'm playing people rated 1600 in RBGs and people know, instinctually, when they hear the Vanish "WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH", to press an AOE ability

People have been playing against this ability for 20 years

[potent pivot]

dip out better

[jolly sierra]

SEXOOOOOOOOOOO

[steel scarab]

Have you done RBGs Trickz lol

Aside from the fact that people who aren't even targeting us will often incidentally hit us with random AOE spells when we're in the thick of things

Anyone with half a brain and less than 1.5 seconds of reaction time is going to knock you out unless you are using it offensively

That's an extremely low bar

[lucid citrus]

Just switch to sub and talent into Cloaked in Shadows and your problem is solved

[steel scarab]

Yes I mean, certainly switching to sub and having 2 Vanishes + 2 dances would solve the problem, except that I like Garrote and Iron Wire and I can't play with those abilities with sub

I also don't like that the sub rotation is still bloated as all hell, with like, 7 cooldowns to track with different durations and timers

They did a lot for Assassination by reducing the number of buttons, in making Serrated Bone Spike and Cut to the Chase passive

[midnight skiff]

So many specs need that treatment right now.

[steel scarab]

Sub, granted, I haven't tested it lately, I just scanned the tree online, so I could be wrong

But

[midnight skiff]

Arms warrior feels the same way ..

[steel scarab]

It didn't look like much changed. There are too many subtlety buttons that do not feel impactful or good to press

The biggest example for sub is Symbols of Death

[halcyon timber]

THing is we can choose not to use extra buttons as is, don't need every active and such

symbols isn't an issue

people playing game 2 is

[steel scarab]

It's an issue in the sense that it does not feel impactful to use

It's like Slice and Dice #2

You have to press it

But you see no immediate obvious gain from using it

[halcyon timber]

It is impactful depending on what you're doing with it

Each of the 3 hav a 30 sec cd

symbols is ours

[steel scarab]

It's just a small Thistle Tea with a damage buff included, it does not feel good to press. If you like it that's cool, I'm just telling you that ability is the main reason I do not like sub and haven't since SL

[halcyon timber]

k cool man

preferences are a good thing, glad you dig assass

nothing wrong w that

[midnight skiff]

I hear you William, it's not just a rogue problem.

[halcyon timber]

every spec has 30s 90s 2min etc

it's how they balance and make gaits for metrics

[midnight skiff]

It's needless though

Especially in pvp with burst no one wants the extra globals

[steel scarab]

I think the majority of people do not enjoy the "10 spinning plates" gameplay loop

[halcyon timber]

well we heard it from the big man himself, they aren't going back to old style

Yeah agreed would be nice but we aren't doing that

[surreal barn]

I just macro symbols into when I want damage tbh

Prob wrong but I don’t even care

If they are dead I’m winning 🥇

[halcyon timber]

yeah people can choose to do that

SV isn't ever ocming back so people have to deal with it. shoving everything into dance since legion started all this and we are slowly nudging away but not going full swing and that is good.

[worthy crag]

Macroing symbols into dance was a "noob" move when sub didn't have 200 energy

Cuz you needed to be conscious of when to press it to actually utilize the 40 energy it gave you, otherwise your output was lower

but it doesnt rly matter now cuz ppl have 200 energy

[halcyon timber]

Agreed on that too

[worthy crag]

And not taking vigor + thistle & dark brew in TWW will be a litreal meme because of how the hero talents double down on finisher damage

Which kinda sucks cuz sub will need to craft mast pieces cuz vendors usually offer haste gear..

Anyway, I never really understood how some people can have such a large gripe with "maintenance buffs" like pressing SnD or symbols manually

or I guess SnD specifically, cuz its an awesome button. I'd rather have sub go back to its old design when symbols didnt exist and dance didn't have a dmg amplifier attached to it

so dance/vanish/stealth was just same dmg

Also, starting this prepatch quest chain and going to silithus & entering the heart chamber is triggering my bfa ptsd..

[gritty bobcat]

Is it bad to macro symbols with your dance?

[halcyon timber]

Maintenance buffs are good, I like having things to press and paying attention to combine things for impactful moments.

[gritty bobcat]

Like what bursting ability can i macro together?

[worthy crag]

Its not really bad as it used to be

[gritty bobcat]

Dance, symbols, blade?

all in 1

[worthy crag]

Id still keep blade its own button

dance & symbols sure

[halcyon timber]

Yeah wouldn't macro jack to blades

[worthy crag]

There are some special seasons with set bonuses like shadowlands season 2? I think

[halcyon timber]

Yeah that became hero talents in deathstalker

[worthy crag]

when you got 3 sec of symbols with dance, back then you werent supposed to macro it with dance

but thats rare

[halcyon timber]

symbolic victory tier set in DS is a nice touch

[worthy crag]

What about deathstalker?

[halcyon timber]

Symbolic victory became a talent in DS

altered slightly but that was a good set and glad rotten inhereted that old set as well to an extent

[gritty bobcat]

So i can acro dance and symbols?

[worthy crag]

yeah.

[halcyon timber]

If you choose to sure

[gritty bobcat]

any other things that condesne the buttons

bc there is a lot

i found this macro that condensed backstab and shadowstrike

which is cool

[halcyon timber]

Not really honestly, depends on how you build

[worthy crag]

you can probably tie in your on-use trinket as well.

[halcyon timber]

you can put stab + strike on the same bind though

[worthy crag]

Not ideal but shrug

[gritty bobcat]

on use is on blades?

[halcyon timber]

"1" non stealth for stab / gloom 1 in stealth strike .

[worthy crag]

yeah. or dance if you want

[halcyon timber]

You mean conquest trinket?

[worthy crag]

Yes

[gritty bobcat]

yes

[worthy crag]

Definitely not medallion

[halcyon timber]

sure if you want

was clarifying ha

[gritty bobcat]

no bro

[worthy crag]

"I BLADES AND MEDALLION AT THE SAME TIME!"

[gritty bobcat]

not medalliion

[halcyon timber]

XD

[gritty bobcat]

idk the opener for sub is so many buttons

[worthy crag]

Yeah I like deathstalker, it seems easier to play with, though the whole "can't be parried" thing with trickster seems nice into monks or warriors

[halcyon timber]

Trickster is very straight forward

[worthy crag]

Actually wanna try DFA with it

[halcyon timber]

DFA does well since it was upgraded a little

[gritty bobcat]

do u guys like thistle tea?

for the pre patch

[worthy crag]

I feel like trickster will be difficult to maximize in an actual burst window, cuz you def want to cast both sec tech and eviscerate

[halcyon timber]

Opener isn't hard, it's just build spend and react well

if you have cb pts start w kidney, if not then CS or build on someone else and gouge / blind whatever and kidney your actual person you want to mug

[worthy crag]

like trickster is more GCD heavy

which Im not a fan of

[halcyon timber]

it's a new age hemo and I dig it

very fast paced style and cloud cover is fun to use

[worthy crag]

whats "pts"

[halcyon timber]

points

[worthy crag]

o

[halcyon timber]

combo points, abbreviated form as I multi task

[worthy crag]

Ye, i thought of cold blood

[halcyon timber]

ah ha yeah fatebound coldblood is pretty nasty too

double cold blood is pretty dang satisfying

[worthy crag]

so the ideal combo with trickster will be unseen blade x 4 eviscerate and get 5 stacks of flawless form and feed that into sec tech

in terms of burst

def aint gonna be easy

[halcyon timber]

depends but Secret grants a few stacks easy and UB procs very fast and resets from TC or from the evasive talent I can't remember during feint

you can easily gain a 4 stack every 30sec not including secret / KS ignoring the cd to help out which was a fair change when they took it off feint even though I do think feint was smoother but yeah was going to change.

Flawless form stacks 9-10 stacks pretty quickly for Outlaw as well

[worthy crag]

I dont think reaching 4 stack will be the challenging part. But getting full cp evis and sec tech off in one window might be

unelss you have blades up

[halcyon timber]

yeah that was intended for sure

[worthy crag]

With blades trickster will def be more dmg than deathstalker

So just looking at the design I imagine trickster having lower floor and higher ceiling

[halcyon timber]

meh, both feel around the same side by side

[worthy crag]

and deathstakler will be more consistent

But not like ive done any actual number testing lmao

[halcyon timber]

a Symbolic victory + Darkest night is pretty wicked

number testing yields very closely the same

[worthy crag]

Definitely, The guaranteed crit is a huge plus cuz we wont be speccing into cold blood ever

[halcyon timber]

they tightly tuned all 3 trees which is nice

someone will mess w cold blood

I find what I like and go from there, not interested in what someone's cousin's mom's brother is doing

[worthy crag]

DFA symbolic victory crit

[halcyon timber]

yeah it's nice

[worthy crag]

prob will still be less dmg than shoving in evis and sec tech in one go but

frees up other globals to restun or cross w.e

[halcyon timber]

dep on pts but yeah you can still secret or whatever you prefer into Darkest Night

prob wouldn't DFA and secret in a window. DFA feels pretty good out of dance too for once

[worthy crag]

I usually accept my role as a kidney pet for mages so getting just 1 global for big dmg is fine by me

[halcyon timber]

bc amps from DS / TRK

[worthy crag]

and what is trk?

[halcyon timber]

I just look to see who's being a rat and then go off that, I don't really make hard plans as people often don't CC

using trk as an abbreviation for trickster

[worthy crag]

ah

also like

ruptuer seems much better with deathstalker

[halcyon timber]

We feel "fine" on beta, they just are bringing rogues up slowly which is good. WOuld rather that than some meme bs and get turned to a stun bot again.

Rupture has additional hooks on DS yeah but both are impactful

Trk can do some good ruptures but need to keep flawless form stacks quickly rolling as they roll over each other.

[worthy crag]

did they fix the armor thing

[halcyon timber]

on beta dunno as the realms have been down (checked earlier) but on live nope. Still 50%+ phys rdx for people and up.

[worthy crag]

sick

[halcyon timber]

yeah man :/ , it's cool. 3 weeks and yep. Onto the next adventure!

[outer sky]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/the-war-within-beta-build-55959-class-and-spell-changes-major-tuning-changes-345587?utm_source=discord-webhook

Big tuning notes

[gritty bobcat]

as a sub rogue in solo shuffel

is rupture

suppose to always be my highest damage?

[worthy crag]

yes

[outer sky]

unless you win the game very quickly, yes

[gritty bobcat]

Thats kind of troll no?

like are just a bursty asas rogue lmao

[worthy crag]

that's kinda the nature of dots though

across the board

[gritty bobcat]

I mean u could have a dot that is also bursty

like garrote tics lmao

[worthy crag]

its also because even eviscerate doesnt really matter

[outer sky]

you dont do any damage outside of cooldowns which means you have limited time to eviscerate. And whne you do eviscerate it only hits one target. Naturally over the course of a game rupture ticking on 3 targets the entire time will do more damage than eviscerate.

[worthy crag]

unless ur in a dance/sod window

[gritty bobcat]

yea evicerate is horrible

[worthy crag]

itll hit like a wet noodle

even if you rupture one target the whole game

it'll be higher than evis I think