but fok fok fok tempest is just dumb
#pvp
worthy crag
potent pivot
i mean practically everyone is spamming aoe now
aoe/cleave dmg is way over insentivised across the board
worthy crag
Its even more annoying that its not even counted as aoe
wintry axle
doubt aoe cleaving will be the meta in tww
worthy crag
So feint doesnt do shit, and pets take full dmg
outer sky
You think systemic failure is really better than fatal concoction?
potent pivot
doubt aoe cleaving will be the meta in tww
i'm like 90% sure it will be
potent pivot
You think systemic failure is really better than fatal concoction?
i'm just trying to keep execute in that build
outer sky
you have it in both
potent pivot
you have it in both
you mean doomblade then?
potent pivot
ah no in the first build i just overlooked it
worthy crag
It usually is, you just have to grind the first 4 days of a season before it gets nerfed by 35%
worthy crag
Also speaking more of aoe, it just thematically doesnt match "assassination" with a maniac thats spraying daggers in a 360 angle
potent pivot
don't think theme matters much anymore honestly
not since they made every class so homogenized
outer sky
@potent pivot trying it now but I can already tell this aint it
worthy crag
It matters, its just poorly implemented
Like "subtlety" having black powder explosion as aoe
Still should be a goal to strive for
potent pivot
<@629463378250956810> trying it now but I can already tell this aint it
yeah i just wanted to see a breakdown with it
potent pivot
Like "subtlety" having black powder explosion as aoe
every spec in the game needs some sort of ST and AOE abilities
otherwise they'd be useless in half the content in the game
worthy crag
I know, I just find it hilariously unfitting that sub has an explosive powder for aoe
wintry axle
it actually is pretty on brand for a sub to use black powder explosion
worthy crag
Maybe its like batman 🤷♂️
wintry axle
of to another topic, can we please talk about how good the flying animations for airplanes are now?
helicopter* lol
potent pivot
<@629463378250956810> trying it now but I can already tell this aint it
could also try this on a dummy just to see envenom/poison dmg when you lean 100% into them:
CMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMmZmZMzMDAAAAAAY2mxsNDAAAAAAtsNMYmxYmZ2GzMGYGzMYmZW22GzwgNz2AGwSwywEYYZA
outer sky
Heres my overall breakdown
surreal barn
Sub to me is calculated damage, AoE or ST. Assa always felt like it should be a more risk/reward spec with the chance at double combo points
Idc if bleeds are for the class in general
outer sky
could also try this on a dummy just to see envenom/poison dmg when you lean 100%...
why would you take amp poison? It has to replace either deadly or wound
worthy crag
Nah, sub is all about being a stun pet for mages
"Companion of archmage watchmecombust"
surreal barn
Sub is the best bitch tho 
potent pivot
why would you take amp poison? It has to replace either deadly or wound
literally just to see what amp/deadly do on a dummy
someone was saying he was doing 3m envenoms
potent pivot
ye
worthy crag
The double shadowstep node in fatebound looks way too good to pass on though, it literally makes sin more mobile than sub
jolly sierra
deathstalker has it too
outer sky
ill try it
worthy crag
Only 3 sec reduc
potent pivot
deathstalker has cdr on step
worthy crag
Cdr on step doesnt rly matter as much cuz ur just sleeping on DR anyway
Well, maybe not as sin but
potent pivot
and iirc fatebound is pretty bad dmg
worthy crag
Sin double stepping evey 25 sec might be p sick
But they are also losing dance so maybe its not as desirable
worthy crag
If you had dance to line it up with
yeah
Could literally stun step stun step stun during dance
outer sky
I'm not 100% sure deathstalker is the way tbh
fatebound coin does good damage
unless there's a viable envenom build
i think fate is better
potent pivot
we'll still have vanish but i feel like you'll want that window to be as impactful as possible
if you're using it offensively
worthy crag
with fatebound you could get so much uptime on classes like mage too
outer sky
@potent pivot I think sanguine strategem makes more sense with this build
worthy crag
Deathstalker looks more like a sub thing
potent pivot
<@629463378250956810> I think sanguine strategem makes more sense with this buil...
by all means
do what you think may work
potent pivot
Deathstalker looks more like a sub thing
deathstalker also has added DR to cloak/evasion
outer sky
Im also tempted to try improved ambush
potent pivot
yeah i thought about it
just seems weird without blindside
if blindside proc'd marks i'm pretty sure it'd be taken with deathstalker
wintry axle
we always ambush over mutilate in stealth right?
jolly sierra
im really mad about deathstalker marks not working w blindside
outer sky
we always ambush over mutilate in stealth right?
yes
potent pivot
im really mad about deathstalker marks not working w blindside
yeah makes it kinda weird to play around in pvp
wintry axle
thanks for answering dumb questions, I've been on a long ass break
potent pivot
but if you can make it work and you can produce 3m envenoms, could be good
jolly sierra
yeah makes it kinda weird to play around in pvp
recalled arguing here about interactly very crapply if u are forced to restealth or vanish to redo it
idk if could be good if some specs have it easier and more efficient
potent pivot
i just dislike having almost all the nodes on fatebound being tied to rng
one node trying to force you into CB
etc
outer sky
this aint it either
envenom critting for like 800k in a best case scenario
maybe we're just trash lmfao
wintry axle
🙏 theres a month to go🙏
potent pivot
envenom critting for like 800k in a best case scenario
i wonder wtf that guy was talking about when he said he was hitting 3m envenoms then
outer sky
I suppose with amazing RNG you could get a 1m crit
potent pivot
also iirc the capstone of fatebound is a literal damage loss atm
not sure if its because of a bug or not
jolly sierra
i just dislike having almost all the nodes on fatebound being tied to rng
boy tbh hated when fatebound was announced
was outlaw magnified
potent pivot
I suppose with amazing RNG you could get a 1m crit
did you make sure you consumed the last mark with env
or i guess after you consume the final mark you make sure to do a 7cp envenom w/e
when you cycle that way you don't really need to ambush
worthy crag
Death from above that shit
steep loom
I wish bleed damage was effected fully by armor, then more people might be crying about the armor issues currently
potent pivot
was it buffed?
?
potent pivot
I wish bleed damage was effected fully by armor, then more people might be cryin...
don't really think there's a point to crying about it tbh
potent pivot
they know about the armor bug
prolly just way too busy to push a fix
i don't think it was buffed
but if you're trying to slam a big envenom that'd help
worthy crag
Dfa def worth testing on sub with deathstalker
potent pivot
+40%
potent pivot
armor "bug" is intentional
you sure about that
jolly sierra
ye
worthy crag
and sod node
worthy crag
With everyones stam going up idk i can afford the 10% dmg debuff
jolly sierra
in my arenas most of time is smoke bomb/hemo/manuv or disarm
i think can be flexed by both hemo or disarm slot
now veil is shit most of time
potent pivot
can even drop smoke bomb into some very particular comps
jolly sierra
dont think can be shuffle case tbh
jolly sierra
ye, can be flexible there
potent pivot
idc enough about shuffle
worthy crag
should give rogues diamond blind
like diamond trap for hunters
cuz that shit breaks insta in shuffle
jolly sierra
ye, at least triggers blackjack
muted abyss
armor % is like 500% higher than beta
yeah, what I'm saying is that for blizz it doesn't matter cause it only really affects pvp right now
it will be "fixed" at 80
worthy crag
I think its a bit of diservice to think blizz doesnt give a shit about pvp at all
And tbf they flip their shit when warrior is ever underperforming in pvp and this change affects them so
jolly sierra
we are the only true pvp class ofc they will hate us
because they aims for pve always
steep loom
don't really think there's a point to crying about it tbh
its moreso the fact that at fully conquest geared outlaw did compared to an idk geared assassination did in skirms. i aint trying to knock down bleeds....but the armor issue makes this game completely unplayable for an outlaw pvper
even if the assasssination gear rogue was full conq geared, it makes NO sense why phys dam is so damn broke, and thats all outlaw is. we dont even have bleed/nature dam in prepatch. so wtf is the point of playing if you play that spec?
potent pivot
even if the assasssination gear rogue was full conq geared, it makes NO sense wh...
you just don't lol
like obviously it's not ideal, but what does complaining about it really accomplish
steep loom
if there was a change that made 75-90% reduced damaged to arcane/nature/fire damage
the game be shut down
potent pivot
you just play another spec or class for rn
steep loom
you just play another spec or class for rn
i understand that take
but there several cases of 1 tricks
potent pivot
if there was a change that made 75-90% reduced damaged to arcane/nature/fire dam...
it's also not only outlaw
it's ww, outlaw, and warrior
steep loom
well yeah. but i aint gonna complain about this is a warrior discord
cause i play outlaw
potent pivot
i'm just saying i think that's a bad take
steep loom
i agree with you. it is. The main reason i'm saying anything, is because there are people like me. who have only played 1 class/1 spec since 2004. and blizzard has made it where i cant do the main thing i always enjoy doing in this game: pvp. this game has evolved to cater to the fotm/multi class/spec people. But thats not me. and i'm not going to stop me from bitching about it lol. but i'll leave it here. and i wont comment on it more, cause i know its a loss cause to complain about something as simple as armor % values lol. cause i know its a silly thing to complain about whilst there are several more game breaking issues going on that they are working on. I needed to vent. so i did. now i'm done. i had to get it out.
muted abyss
Holy moly is it impossible to kill a DK rn lol
spring bough
DK is god mode
me as survival earlier and a preso took like 2 min to kill one lol
they can hold u off real good in rated solo bgs like AB for the flag caps lol
muted abyss
Are they broken on beta too?
swift smelt
anyone around to give a newbie some advice on assa pvp rotation
some of the guides looks like we drop crimson t and go for envenom talents, but the one says keep snd up at all times during arena, is that still true?
or maybe there’s a guide people are recommending for pvp or vid
jolly sierra
we dont do rotations in pvp
and watch shadenox in youtube
he is good af teaching assa rogs
potent pivot
anyone around to give a newbie some advice on assa pvp rotation
if you check iceyveins it has different prio lists for abilities
swift smelt
shadenox kk
potent pivot
swift smelt
if you check iceyveins it has different prio lists for abilities
i’ll take a look again ty
jolly sierra
ye icyveins too, he wrote assa guide i recall
but tbh watch his rog pvp guide in youtube
potent pivot
i’ll take a look again ty
potent pivot
some of the guides looks like we drop crimson t and go for envenom talents, but ...
you shouldn't drop ct for envenom talents no
you can drop CT+IC for doomblade+sbs into some match ups, not many
swift smelt
appreciate the info, such a mixed bag of guides with pre patch coming out, was a rough time to pick up my rogue again lol
swift smelt
https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pvp-rotation-and-playstyle
so you don’t recommend the st build over the aoe one except for specific match ups?
spring bough
getting 10 rating a win for rated solo bg still lol.... this gonna take forever to get elite
potent pivot
so you don’t recommend the st build over the aoe one except for specific match u...
no, you should run the aoe build vs almost everything
you only run doomblade+sbs into comps that stay very spread out
like double caster/rdruid
swift smelt
kk
jolly sierra
getting 10 rating a win for rated solo bg still lol.... this gonna take forever ...
did u got any pvp title?
potent pivot
but tbh watch his rog pvp guide in youtube
i don't think he has an updated guide out
on yt
spring bough
did u got any pvp title?
yeah everything up to 1600 so far
potent pivot
i only see a season 3 guide
jolly sierra
i only see a season 3 guide
well, there are not too much changes from s3 i think
the rework was actually for end s2 i recall
jolly sierra
yeah everything up to 1600 so far
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH
can u tell me if u can get 1k8 and unlock the xmogs later?
potent pivot
well, there are not too much changes from s3 i think
don't even think he mentions CT in it
swift smelt
@potent pivot sorry to keep bugging you with this but i’m trying to figure out the right priority. running through the opener first combo dump is rupture, wouldn’t you want your second to be CT if your talented into it then snd leaving envenom for times where everything is up
potent pivot
<@629463378250956810> sorry to keep bugging you with this but i’m trying to figu...
SnD is like your least important upkeep ability
swift smelt
so when would you use it, his guide says “
Slice and Dice Icon Slice and Dice increases your attack speed. Slice and Dice should almost have 100% uptime during an arena match. You shouldn't use this ability too much if you picked Cut to the Chase Icon Cut to the Chaseas it will refresh itself when you use Envenom Icon Envenom.”
sorry that pasted weird
potent pivot
so when would you use it, his guide says “
Slice and Dice Icon Slice and Dice in...
keep reading
swift smelt
i really want to get better at rogue, love the play style just need to get the priorities down
appreciate the help
potent pivot
if you look at all the different openers/prio lists, SnD is only mentioned a couple times
if you read the whole guide, it'll all make sense
potent pivot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIG9aTMjEUI&list=PLexP5UTFVpxg9-TVaZ-d5Mx6RJeIG_...
most of these vids explain what to do vs certain shit
not really the basics like he's asking for
jolly sierra
not really the basics like he's asking for
maybe he should watch s3 one and then CT vid
potent pivot
the s3 guide vid is p good, just a little out of date
potent pivot
maybe he should watch s3 one and then CT vid
i don't think that vid would be a help to him rn is what i'm saying
just create confusion
potent pivot
when you're trying to learn what buttons to press
watching a vid that shows what to do in a shuffle vs x,x,x
is kinda pointless
potent pivot
swift smelt
one big mistake it sounds like i’m making is trying to max combo points everytime
he says pretty clearly rupture at 3
potent pivot
one big mistake it sounds like i’m making is trying to max combo points everyti...
yeah that's bad
jolly sierra
the think is not watching the vid as SS vs X
lit we wanna explain the CT build
that is all
and even can be more simple
potent pivot
potent pivot
he says pretty clearly rupture at 3
in an opener yes. not always.
you should aim to use finishers on 4, if you happen to land on 5 that is fine
but you shouldn't really be pressing combo point generators if you're already at 4
if you're at 3 or below, press FoK or Mut, unless throwing up a quick rupture
swift smelt
interesting
jolly sierra
just say to him
use CT with 4+ combo points and 2+ targets to cleave
if there are 2+ enemies stacked, use FoK instead mutilate
to do more cleave damage, use the most possible garrote in vanish window, so you can spread it to all the desired targets and silence casting classes
indiscriminate carnage doesnt spreads like in pve so u need to use both rupture and garrote more to spread it on players
jolly sierra
the problem w tempest
is it raises dmg on multiple targets
and lasts for very little compared to other dots
jolly sierra
personally wont advice CT at 1 target just for lethal dose
jolly sierra
swift smelt
wish they never changed combat to outlaw
potent pivot
i think most of us oldheads agree
jolly sierra
should we drop acrobatics now?
swift smelt
what’s sub like compared to assa right now in terms of simplicity
potent pivot
should we drop acrobatics now?
don't think so, it gives move speed now
jolly sierra
hmmm
jolly sierra
what’s sub like compared to assa right now in terms of simplicity
like three time the complex
potent pivot
there's nothing else to pick that'd be better than acro
cuz you have to spend that last point to unlock the last 3 rows anyway
jolly sierra
well that is true
potent pivot
jolly sierra
im thinking now about how fucked is KB without shadow dance
potent pivot
what else you gonna take there lol
jolly sierra
we can try DTB now maybe?
potent pivot
im thinking now about how fucked is KB without shadow dance
it still does good dam
jolly sierra
tested it on a guy i think in a duel and did very light dmg i recall
was another rog
potent pivot
highly doubt we take dtb
potent pivot
was another rog
on beta?
that's why i was asking star to give dtb a test on beta earlier, was hoping it'd be decent
but just from looking at the dmg breakdown it didn't seem good at all
potent pivot
unless deathstalker can make using Amp poison worth it for big envenoms
highest envenom star said he got was a 800k crit
not sure if he utilized the deathstalker capstone for it though
and i'm sure wasn't using dfa
jolly sierra
maybe
but i can test KB again tho on another victim into a skirmish
to check this
potent pivot
but i can test KB again tho on another victim into a skirmish
on beta it was still hitting like 400k first hit iirc
potent pivot
how much HP average have a guy there?
on beta? ~7m
jolly sierra
on beta? ~7m
that is low for a KB dude
jolly sierra
think for example in average in DF did like 275k-450k
average HP in DF s4 was like 1.5m
potent pivot
i really don't think we can know any of this before season starts to be real
we're theorizing what we'll use a month before the content is done
jolly sierra
so KB does like 1/5 base HP dmg in s4 w burst
ye always lol
but imagining pov as 400k KBs as 80
potent pivot
we don't know if the stats will be similar to beta
we don't know how much more tuning will be done
jolly sierra
hope they raises the numbers
potent pivot
many factors lol
potent pivot
idk maybe he had a bad time today
because the past couple days he was owning as both assa and outlaw
jolly sierra
idk if was in either prepatch or beta
potent pivot
beta
think the sub rogue owning him was on prepatch
i really don't wanna spend the $ on beta man
but i won't have the guide up for launch if i don't
swift smelt
think the sub rogue owning him was on prepatch
ye he said retail
worthy crag
This new premed talent for sub is pretty nice but i wonder if this makes first dance completely obsolete
jolly sierra
i really don't wanna spend the $ on beta man
tbh im farming gold to buy almost free TWW before launch
im going for the third token
potent pivot
This new premed talent for sub is pretty nice but i wonder if this makes first d...
So far I’ve heard you don’t need first dance if you take premed
worthy crag
but i won't have the guide up for launch if i don't
Ur writing a guide? which spec
outer sky
we can try DTB now maybe?
ive tested every possible build on beta and right now what we play on retail is working best
DTB is hot garbage
potent pivot
Ur writing a guide? which spec
All 3
jolly sierra
ive tested every possible build on beta and right now what we play on retail is ...
even at 80?
oof
got it
worthy crag
jeez thats gonna be a lot of typing
outer sky
even at 80?
yes
potent pivot
jeez thats gonna be a lot of typing
Not a guide per se, but a little pvp faq
Better than the old pvp faq
outer sky
we're just undertined. Everyone is trying to get around that but we just cant
jolly sierra
so should we pick cold blood now to patch KB dmg?
outer sky
our buttons dont do damage
jolly sierra
or better use it in a big envenom?
outer sky
so should we pick cold blood now to patch KB dmg?
take CB and macro it to KB
worthy crag
I tell this every expansion/prepatch but numbers should be the last thing ppl should think about
jolly sierra
take CB and macro it to KB
gotcha
worthy crag
What matters more is if you like the design
potent pivot
I tell this every expansion/prepatch but numbers should be the last thing ppl sh...
This
Numbers are still going to change
outer sky
you get rating by killing people not from being stylish
worthy crag
Yes but if the design is garbage number tuning wont make it a better experience
maybe a little but not much
potent pivot
you get rating by killing people not from being stylish
That’s not the point man
outer sky
ive played rogue for 17 years and have always had fun on any spec provided it could get kills
potent pivot
We’re still a month from launch
outer sky
I hate the way sub is designed right now
hate it
hate it
hate it
did I say I hate it?
swift smelt
i really don't wanna spend the $ on beta man
what’s the upgrade from base cost 20$?
worthy crag
So you remember when we had to choose between shadowstep and preparation in mop season 1?
nothing beats that
outer sky
But I still enjoy it
potent pivot
what’s the upgrade from base cost 20$?
40
outer sky
if it lands kills
worthy crag
or when shadowstrike stunned every time because the devs "thought it'd be good for pvp"
in legion
outer sky
what’s the upgrade from base cost 20$?
$40 but it includes a month of game time so if you pay for your sub with $ and not gold then its technically cheaper
outer sky
or when shadowstrike stunned every time because the devs "thought it'd be good f...
I remember when BtE did that
potent pivot
if it lands kills
They’ve already been buffing rogue bro. If it’s still underperforming I expect more buffs
worthy crag
or like
just trying to be a rogue in the entirety of legion when teams were playing triple orc relent
the game has improved so much since then, even though I still hate dealing with ret warr having 25 stops for my setups
outer sky
They’ve already been buffing rogue bro. If it’s still underperforming I expect m...
what I'm afraid of is them nerfing everything else to be on par with us
worthy crag
Could be a hot take, but the pace of pvp could use a bit of slowing down in comparison to the oneshot zoogaloo meta that's been around since SL
obviously we shouldnt get to 65% dampening every game like in BFA season 3~4
potent pivot
what I'm afraid of is them nerfing everything else to be on par with us
Nah I doubt it
Health pools are too high for that
outer sky
i dont necessarily disgaree with that but if they make everyone do the kind of damage we're doing rn on beta then thats way too slow
worthy crag
but a couple burst CD macros shouldnt burst through 4 health bars like they did in SL and DF
lol you underestimate blizzard's ability to tune numbers tbh
swift smelt
@potent pivot dm
outer sky
but a couple burst CD macros shouldnt burst through 4 health bars like they did ...
there's a lot of room in between what youre describing and what's going on on beta
worthy crag
Yeah I mean..its beta
worthy crag
I know the "its just beta lol" phrase is super cliche but it isn't when it comes to tuning
designs dont really change at this phase but numbers still do
Honestly the issues people are seeing in TWW prepatch is nothing compared to what was going on in like legion prepatch or bfa prepatch
potent pivot
Could be a hot take, but the pace of pvp could use a bit of slowing down in comp...
You really think so? It’s already way too slow
At the top level games are already 10 minutes a lot of the time
worthy crag
Dont quote me on that one for DF season 3 and 4 though, I rarely participated
potent pivot
Since they nerfed cc n shit games have been slow as fuck
outer sky
there's 2 things I'd like to see them fundementally change about pvp.
worthy crag
Is 1 of them disabling racials
outer sky
No I dont really care much about that
-
Stop the mobility power creep. Mobility should have never gotten to the insane level that it is now. Thats part of the reason why we need shit like precog in the game. So its just a back and forth between connecting and kiting and since nobody ever really runs out of mobility for all practical purposes it's just never ending.
-
End the meta of CCing just to be disruptive. CC should be purely defensive or to create a set up. None of this throwing out 3x DRd CC right before the DR is about to fall off just to stop someone from finishing a cast because the actual DR is so meaningless that you can actually just throw your CC out at any time and not care at all
worthy crag
Yeah the reason I remember the fatebound double shadowstep talent is because it just got on my nerves
that kind of shit is never good for the game
Not sure I agree with #2 though, thats more of a skill/ladder issue than CC itself
I mean, doing a 0.5 sec stun just to stop a cast can be a calculated move that pays for itself
its up to the player to decide
outer sky
it feeds into itself. Since is necessarily squishy and has to cast, they need to be able to kite. but if youre going to give warriors or whatever 2 charges, a leap, a slow, etc, then you have to give that much or more to the casters
so on so forth
worthy crag
I've been noticing a stronger trend with the use of addons, mostly weakauras, that handhold people how to use CC disruptively though and that's one thing that's been bothering me most in the last few seasons
Like a ret can set up weakauras that just go BEEP BEEP PRESS SANCTUARY BEEP BEEP with a big ass kidney shot icon in the center screen when his healer gets stunned
Pressing sanc in response to that isn't really skill
outer sky
I mean, doing a 0.5 sec stun just to stop a cast can be a calculated move that p...
I don't think its possible to remove the option of doing that. right now thats how like 90% of CC in the game is used right now. I'd like it to be "shit you used a DRd chaos nova to stop a frost bolt. We needed that for the go. You're trolling"
worthy crag
I think what blizz needs to address is the amount of responses that certain classes have to being CC'ed
outer sky
Right now they just dont gaf
worthy crag
Well, only because you used a demon hunter as an example
Cant really expect them to use brain
outer sky
well even something like a warrior's shockwave
that serves no purpose other than to be disruptive
at least the overwhelming majority of the time
worthy crag
Yeah, warrior is the one outstanding class that has a million responses to CCs all of which are instant
outer sky
I wouldnt even care if throwing them out randomly actually punished them
but it doesnt
they dont care at all what their CC DRs are
worthy crag
like if a warrior casts disarm/intervene/warbanner/bladestorm/fear/shockwave in a frame perfect response to a rogue pressing shadow dance, how can you be sure that the warrior is just skilled and aware as opposed to having set up a weakaura that beeps loudly that the rogue pressed dance
outer sky
Even if he's skilled and aware, the fact that all of his CC is so meaningless for anything else besides being disruptive that he could commit all of that like you said is a design flaw for me
worthy crag
But tbf, this isn't really blizzard's fault. In almost all competitive games, especially higher up the ladder, its almost always better to play not to lose, rather than play to win
outer sky
I'd like to see the game in a state where a good warrior would never do that
becasue the opportunity cost of doing so is so high
worthy crag
Its just a prime example of playing not to lose
But that might be pretty exclusive to VS rogue scenarios
not sure if theyd actually do that in mirror matches or against other comps
outer sky
I play rogue, hunter, WW, and devoker
they always do it
On my devoker I've seen people 3x DR CC me to stop me from casting living flame
because in their mind
"wtf else am I gunna do with this CC?"
which is my main complaint
worthy crag
Also might be that it's still a fairly new class and people don't know the list of valuable casts to kick
I dont really either
outer sky
you only ever kick sleep walk and disintegrate
worthy crag
I do know that blue beam shit is most dmg though
tbf I also save my scatter shot for FoF vs windwalkers
its just in your best interest to win the game vs setup classes
outer sky
never kick a devoker's living flame. Thats what they want. It locks them out of the red casting school and all their damage is on blue and all their CC is on green
worthy crag
either that or during their alpha tiger window
worthy crag
skyreach or something
outer sky
oh thats also gone
worthy crag
thank god
I hate windwalkers
Ppl flip out when rogue is OP but I swear windwalkers always fly under the radar
swift smelt
floaty kick is bs
worthy crag
litreally every season
outer sky
It's because WW isn't "annoying"
stoic spruce
Honestly just delete sub and everyone is happy
worthy crag
Yeah, thats a no
outer sky
I've said this a million times. It's because rogues kill you in a stun. So even though vs a WW you're still just as dead, since you weren't stunned when you died you falsely believe you could have done something about it
swift smelt
based
outer sky
yeah but one person cant do it himself
I'm not saying I agree with this logic
I'm just saying thats how people think
but really the playerbase just needs to get over it. Rogues have been in the game since launch. They're annoying. they stun you a lot. Take that away and you just have a really squishy warrior
worthy crag
yeah its kinda infuriating, like during some seasons when RMX was just completely replaced with WWMX with 40% verse windwalkers flying around the entire map with an arcane mage
and being completely untouchable
forum posters still crying about rogue
cuz they trinketed a sap and die in a stun I guess
swift smelt
that new floaty kick cc is gonna piss a lot of people off
worthy crag
what is this new floaty kick cc
outer sky
that new floaty kick cc is gonna piss a lot of people off
Im also 2400 on WW so ive been trying it on beta its not that impactful
swift smelt
they have a new ability, i’ll see if i can find it
swift smelt
Im also 2400 on WW so ive been trying it on beta its not that impactful
aoe close range interupt tho what’s the cd?
outer sky
forum posters still crying about rogue
I think another aspect of it is that a lot of players want to be able to trinket the 1st CC of the game and proceed to trinket to do damage and rogue punishes that gameplay uniquely hard
worthy crag
When it comes to WW, the worst offender was the kyrian ability in SL that was a 30 second buff
outer sky
aoe close range interupt tho what’s the cd?
It's tied to Whirling Dragon Punch
swift smelt
“rising dragon sweep”
outer sky
The reason why it's not that good is because WW gets a lot of CDR on Rising Sun Kick and Fists of Fury and Whirling Dragon Punch can only be used when both of those abilities are on CD
so its basically impossible to plan to use it
swift smelt
ah
outer sky
cuz even if dragon punch is off CD, if FoF or RSK comes off CD before you want the knock up, too bad. It gets greyed out
swift smelt
didn’t realize it was locked like that, ty
outer sky
yeah it just adds a but of disruption to their rotation is all
bit*
the WW community is kind of split on whether their spec got buffed or nerfed
its a really weird situation
worthy crag
maybe theyll know what it feels like to be weak
swift smelt
tons of survivability too
worthy crag
ofc it is. when is it not
outer sky
main thing thats annoying is they lost serenity
so theyre back to getting trolled by clones
but blizzard did finally fix it so that tigers lust frees all the clones from roots
now just the main one
which was much needed
But with prepatch flying serpent kick is now a 30s CD
and they lost their keefers dash
roll is also a slightly longer CD
but they gained clash
on a 45s CD
and disable is now a 10 yard range instead of melee range
that used to be a pvp talent, now its a regular talent early in the tree
so some people are arguing their mobility was buffed because they get 10 yard disable basically for free plus clash
and that losing the keefers dash isnt bad because it required spending 50 energy on tiger palm
just to connect
others are saying clash is too long of a CD and with the other mobility nerfs it balances out to an overall nerf
worthy crag
mobility nerf is always welcome imo
outer sky
Yeah but it cant just be one class
swift smelt
will be interesting to see how things shake out after the first few weeks of tww
worthy crag
ele might be 80% of the ladder early on
outer sky
I'm going to do some testing with this talent pretty soon. It's on the same node as clash. I think it could be good but I can also see it trolling me based on enemy positioning. Especially with a hunter pet on me or something
outer sky
yeah exactly
I think no way you play it into those classes
I also need to test this pvp talent
It basically lets you use clash as a mass grip
clash is a 45s CD and sweep is a 50s CD so you could line them up for a guarnteed triple sweep
worthy crag
So this new clash ability will just compel my character to start running at the monk and headbutt it?
outer sky
you and the monk meet in the middle
worthy crag
that sounds like my character will start running with 0 input from me
outer sky
remember when Goku and Vegeta used the fusion earings against Majin Buu?
Its that kind of interaction
there's no running
worthy crag
so what, the monk throws a rope at me or something?
outer sky
its like you and the monk wild charge to each other
worthy crag
Yeah I get that part but like
WHY would my character charge the monk
what would prompt that
Im having a hard time imagining the animation of this ability
idk, is it like a Nautilus hook from league?
or thresh
Idk, its pretty silly to imagine the WW pressing clash on me, and my character just drops whatever action it's currently doing to start running at the monk
esp if it's a caster
outer sky
Looks like this
@worthy crag
there's an exploit you can do with it that i found on beta that's pretty funny
If you're Z axis'd
like say there's a lock on the ledge in mungabala
and you're on the ground below him
if you can create LoS, clash will run his ass to the stairs and down them to get to you
in like half a second
potent pivot
you talking about that new monk thing
outer sky
Keefers dash did the same thing but brought the monk to his target
the target going to the monk is way funnier though
potent pivot
they added some other cool shit for monk too didn't they
like a different port mechanic
where you port to team mate
outer sky
yeah but only MW is taking that
potent pivot
yeah i kinda figured
potent pivot
doesn't make as much sense for ww
outer sky
because its on the same node as double transcendence
so if they take it they can only port once
no porting back
potent pivot
ah
outer sky
they added a lot of stuff for monk but the problem is most of it is cool thematically but practically useless
WW is my favorite thing to play besides rogue. Its the only other class ive been 2400 on
worthy crag
Not gonna lie
that looks so stupid
Like did the monk throw a yo mama so fat joke that the taret toon was compelled to charge it
theres NOTHING prompting the target to start charging
outer sky
it also roots all enemies within 6 yards for 4 seconds
worthy crag
Like i imagined from the pvp talent name "rodeo" that it would at least
throw a cowboy rope at the target and start pulling it, meeting it halfway
but thats just so half assed
worthy crag
not even a grip animation
and I can tell there will be players who make a yell macro out of that one
outer sky
it would be better I think if it was like a reverse Ring of Peace
where you place it
and enemies cant leave
worthy crag
if you can create LoS, clash will run his ass to the stairs and down them to get...
kinda like old spearhead
oh hell nah
the last thing this game needs is a spear of bastion v.2
outer sky
yeah that was toxic
they redesigned the warrior speak
spear*
now its like
youre slowed
and as you walk away youre pulling a rope
and if you get far enough away it breaks
worthy crag
Im 99% certain that exact feedback was given since day 1 of spear's introduction in SL
outer sky
its an improvement for sure
worthy crag
but yeah, it was infuriating and required an exploitation of game mechanic to break off of
outer sky
I played one 2v2 match against a warrior and an rsham and I got speared and static totemed at the same time and my character couldn't do anything
I was just sparadically ping ponging back and forth
potent pivot
that shit was annoying
worthy crag
with how impactful totems have become in the recent expansions I wish target totem macro came back
like being able to target totems with a macro
actually nah, thatd just kill any sort of grounding totem play
but static totem is still annoying af
outer sky
i think its weird that if you kill earthgrab totem after it roots you the roots dont break
every other totem in the game loses its affect when its killed
besides that one
worthy crag
yep, and now its significantly harder to actually break it cuz everyone lost their 3 yard range
not that breaking it does anything anyway but still
outer sky
i just wonder why blizzard decided that totem alone would persist after its killed
worthy crag
most likely just an oversight
just better off not asking some questions just cuz they make 0 sense
how grappling hook can't be dodged
or stormbolt or shockwave
why intimidating shout is a physical fear instead of magical
and cant be cloaked
how demo locks can pet stun while stunned
but hunters cant
outer sky
or touch of death
on the bright side
after all these years blizzard finally fixed touch of death
it no longer has a delay
if you drop below 15% that shit will go off before the button even lights up
karmic summit
Did they fix armour levels?
outer sky
Did they fix armour levels?
on retail?
potent pivot
Did they fix armour levels?
don't think so
worthy crag
just play caster, problem solved
worthy crag
kind of annoying that sub will just be a stat stick for mastery and nothing else
its a fun stat, but most of the pvp vendor sourced gears are towards haste because its just a more valuable stat for most other classes
and versatility rotten/goremaw/ER/cold blood will be a complete meme build, more so than in DF
swift smelt
@outer sky in your opinion is assa easier to be proficient at or WW, seems like you have both down well.
outer sky
<@339519002961248258> in your opinion is assa easier to be proficient at or WW, ...
ive been 2700 on assa and 2450 on WW. It's hard to explain. WW is frustrating because there's so little you can do besides damage. Rogue is frustrating because there's so much you can do that sometimes you make the wrong choice and also because your teammates can screw you over very easily as a rogue. I think at low and mid rating WW is easier but at high rating rogue is. If that makes sense
swift smelt
ive been 2700 on assa and 2450 on WW. It's hard to explain. WW is frustrating be...
super does, appreciate the reply
worthy crag
honestly feels like rogue gets easier the higher you get
at least in shuffle
past a certain point you stop getting one of those fury warriors who will randomly swap to training healer and break every cc
or that dh that will do a 0.3 sec triple dr chaos nova
outer sky
the gap between a good and great WW monk had never been narrower than it was last season. WW monk is easier to pick up and push with than rogue because there's much less you can do as a WW monk which means there's a whole lot less to consider and think about. The down side is, there's much less you can do as a WW monk. So eventually you get to a point where it's easier to push on rogue because of all the plays you can make in a game. WW monks at any rating are mostly relying on damage to carry them and eventually it gets to a point where that's just not enough and you'd be better off on a class with more options. But that obviously requires a lot of proficiency with the class which is why I say WW is easier at lower and mid rating.
Damage can carry at those ratings more than at higher ones
a rogue still needs to make some decent plays even around the 2100 rating, a WW can brute force it
come 2400 though thats much less the case
One thing that I think has really improved my rogue gameplay specifically this season is that I've finally learned to trust my team to get kills
so like if the kill target is low and the healer is coming out of CC or has a cooldown coming up, instead of tunneling damage like I'd have done in previous seasions, I peel off the kill target and focus on locking down the healer while my team finishes the kill
That may be basic gameplay to a lot of rogues even lower rated than I am but that's been a recent breakthrough for me
meld>step>silence>cheap>gouge> into bomb if I have it
swift smelt
jeez you are a wealth of knowledge
really appreciate the thorough reply
i’ve been in a cycle of not being able to pick a main for tww. 1800 ret n dh. ret is too mindless, dh i hate the momentum chase the orb play style, decided to try rogue again, im only 518 ilvl. love the stealth gameplay and effect you can have in bgb. Haven’t delved into arenas too much as i just get clapped being low level. I think if i work at it ill really enjoy rogue, i mained one from vanilla to tbc, was some of the best times, but that was combat days.
outer sky
i’ve been in a cycle of not being able to pick a main for tww. 1800 ret n dh. re...
there's definitely a lot of satisfaction in outplaying people as a rogue and more than any other class it has the potential to do so. But the class is also largely balanced around being able to do that which is why its usually so good at higher rating where the player is good enough to make the most of it and has a team that can play off of his plays. But sometimes people struggle with the class when they're at lower rating because theyre not able to utilize the whole toolkit that the class is balanced around and end up playing it as a really squishy warrior
But of course, like any other class we still have to be tuned properly and right now on TWW beta we are def undertuned
if TWW went live right now rogues would not exist
hopefully that changes in the coming month
swift smelt
yeah no kidding
it’s good that tww is so alt friendly, lessens the stint of having multiple toons going
outer sky
I'm going to be maining rogue or WW monk regardless of how the meta looks. I've tried rogue, monk, hunter, DK, druid, shaman, and evoker and the only 3 i've been able to get 2100 on are rogue, WW, and evoker
worthy crag
alt friendly usually comes with the downside of everybody fotm hopping with the latest patch
outer sky
and on evoker I sweated my ass off and got to 2100 on the dot
so i think I'm just not mentally capable of pushing high on anything thats not rogue or WW
this season on rogue I got within 200 points of rank 1 and I know 200 points isn't a small number but its not huge either so I def think I'm rank 1 capable. I just need a bit more practice and a favorable meta
worthy crag
the rank 1 cutoff can be very deceiving tbh
outer sky
alt friendly usually comes with the downside of everybody fotm hopping with the ...
it also creates the problem of mglads and rank 1s dominating the entire bracket with their alts
because its so easy to gear them for it
worthy crag
most 17x rank 1 players will just screw around and not push until the last 3 days of a season in which theyll jump from out-of-rank-1 range to top #3 in one session
and proceed to do it on an alt account "for fun"
outer sky
i've been an advocate of account wide MMR for a while
worthy crag
spend all the time doing "viewer queues" and being idle in ladder giving others the illusion of securing a r1 spot
haha jk real queues last day
outer sky
itll be easier next season
with a much larger player base
people coming back for the new xpac
so more slots
potent pivot
most 17x rank 1 players will just screw around and not push until the last 3 day...
some of them even make alts to q with at 0 cr
so they q main at 2.4k with 2 0cr alts that their team mates are on
worthy crag
it usually only affects 3s, RSS not much because the 0.1% modifier for a single spec can be extremely small, at best you get 1~2 more spots
outer sky
it usually only affects 3s, RSS not much because the 0.1% modifier for a single ...
2-3 more slots would be a 100% increase. let me dream
potent pivot
so more slots
this also means rating will be higher
worthy crag
so they q main at 2.4k with 2 0cr alts that their team mates are on
I actually was not aware of this but it makes sense
outer sky
so they q main at 2.4k with 2 0cr alts that their team mates are on
downside is if they lose a game it will take 3 wins to recover the rating
worthy crag
like people advertising "3k+ exp" when they had it during unchained season w.e
outer sky
I personally can't stand super inflated ladder
good for glad pushes
worthy crag
that is true.
potent pivot
downside is if they lose a game it will take 3 wins to recover the rating
they don't lose games at 1700 bro
outer sky
Unfortunately next seasons glad mount is horrible
worthy crag
I think the game needs an intermediary reward between glad and rank 1
potent pivot
the match making is averaged between the 3 players
outer sky
I think the game needs an intermediary reward between glad and rank 1
or just make glad % based like it used to be
potent pivot
so they're q'ing into 1600mmr
outer sky
so they're q'ing into 1600mmr
this is why I think there should be account wide MMR
potent pivot
they'll just make new accounts
worthy crag
like the difference between rank 1 and glad, esp the 2400+ version, is so insanely large that the former could drink 5 shots of vodka, play with 2 fingers and still end the game in 2 minutes vs the latter
outer sky
conversely they could lower the r1 threshold from 0.1% to 0.5%
worthy crag
Yeah. I know people can have elitist moments when it comes to pvp (or as well as with pve, I guess) but 0.1% really is a unjustifiably small margin for a game this old
esp when it's ususally the same people who secure it 13 years in a row
worthy crag
Like I got my first 0.5% glad with a full team of duelists, as in none of us were former glads, and THAT was a huge deal apparently
most people pushed with at least 1 former glad
its even worse with r1
try to tell anyone ur pushing r1 with a full team of 0 time r1s and theyll just laugh at you
outer sky
yep
worthy crag
At least with DF and now with TFF I dont feel like a doomsayer
things are so much better now than it used to be with BFA and SL
outer sky
its hard, like you want it to be prestegious but at the same time it should be accessable to the playerbase
worthy crag
like its not even the same game
outer sky
thats a hard balance to strike
worthy crag
yup, and the dilemma is that an arguably large portion of the playerbase that you are trying to give a helping hand to is opposed to the idea
potent pivot
worthy crag
so u cant rly blame blizz for not doing anything
worthy crag
just press treant bro
worthy crag
hes a damn good entertainer, gotta give him that
I used to be annoyed by him cuz all his stream content used to be meme oneshot cheesy 2s at 1600 mmr and never streamed actual main team sessions or pushes
but I think he does more of that nowadays
outer sky
i dont think he streamed main team push but he did stream LFG 3s to get the 150 wins he needed to be r1 eligible
potent pivot
i think his team is one of the only ones that streams r1 push these days
and they even had to q off stream last day because of people sniping q's
outer sky
One thing I like about Pika is that no matter what the meta is he's pretty much always pushing with the same comp
RPS
potent pivot
i dont think he streamed main team push but he did stream LFG 3s to get the 150 ...
he did
potent pivot
ye
worthy crag
yeah RPS is always fun to play and watch
worthy crag
because wizk isnt just a spriest
outer sky
after this long they know it so well I guess
worthy crag
hes something more
outer sky
yeah he's a prick
I queued into him a ton of times in SL S1 and every time he beat me he'd t-bag my body and emote my team
like dude
youre a blizzcon runner up
worthy crag
its a strat. If an opponent is running into you multiple times, why not damage his mental?
potent pivot
_>
outer sky
idk I just thought it was in poor taste
worthy crag
I own this item https://www.wowhead.com/item=166880/meerahs-jukebox and play it with my flag of ownership
outer sky
like if Bruce Lee beat up a high schooler taking karate lessons and starting flaming him for losing
worthy crag
maybe he just had a distaste for rogue players in SL S1
potent pivot
i want to lvl a dk man
worthy crag
which honestly is understandable
worthy crag
remix is awesome though
potent pivot
yeah but can't play the chars on live for like 3 more weeks
worthy crag
yeah thats a turnoff
potent pivot
i've been leveling a second dh on remix
worthy crag
just stuck in pandaland
worthy crag
kinda wish theyd just enable pvp at this point for all the shitshow
timeless isle would be brutal
potent pivot
lmao
i saw some duels the other day
this lv70 dh had so much shit
the dude that dueled him one shot himself
he attacked the DH, DH did nothing, but the dude died in a global
no idea wtf happened
potent pivot
one of those sockets that does dmg to whatever does dmg to you
worthy crag
it usually sims #1 in dmg meter as long as ur being attacked
potent pivot
insane
i haven't even hit the level for raids yet i don't think
i got like, 30, bought a couple mogs
worthy crag
There's a trick thats on youtube for powerleveling to max in like 2.5 hours
potent pivot
yeah i've heard
i need to look into that
i could level a couple more rogues maybe
worthy crag
more likely 3 hours unless you have an alt account twink to help you out but
still fast enough
outer sky
Idk what it is now but
I bought a ton of level boosts in the last month
I paid 110k for level 45-70
potent pivot
i need to make some gold
potent pivot
been a while since i boosted in pvp because i didn't play s4
potent pivot
You missed your golden opportunity man
?
outer sky
All the shitters that can't get 1800 but wanted the elite set
outer sky
Yeah it's a gold mine but last week of the season is always the best
potent pivot
once season starts it'll be easy
first weeks are good too
really good
but it's even harder to boost sometimes
outer sky
I have more luck late season because these people come to the bitter realization that they can't get it on their own but they want the set so they finally pony up for a boost
potent pivot
yeah
i've got buddies that boost all season
they're stacked
they usually get like 3-5 sales a week
outer sky
You ever find someone who's so bad you can't boost them
potent pivot
i just like having gold for crafted items and other random shit
outer sky
I had that happen once in s3
potent pivot
yes
yes i have
most people expect pvp boosts to be afk like pve boosts
that's the issue
outer sky
I was trying to boost an hpal
We did 12 games
He never pressed sac
He said he was afraid he would die
12 games not one sac
potent pivot
i wish rgb boosting was viable
but it'd cost too much to pay an entire team to get 1 person to x rating
outer sky
Rbg boosting is actually easier to do because you don't have to kill the other players to win the game. Problem is it's so difficult logistically to pull off
The big time RBG boosters are usually carrying 4-5 people
Idk how they do it
But they're making bank
potent pivot
yeah
i only know of 1 rgb boosting thing
and i don't think they're following ToS
worthy crag
i want to get a healer to max just to chill at insta q pops at solo bgs
potent pivot
same
worthy crag
either a hpal or disc
potent pivot
rdruid looks so insane rn
worthy crag
i dont like other specs
potent pivot
druid is so aids to play but bro
rdru is doing 100k dps
it looks PISS easy
spam wrath and keep HoTs up
jolly sierra
akshually kul tirans are human druids 🤓☝️
potent pivot
https://tenor.com/view/gnomed-gnome-youve-been-gnomed-gif-16782193
how long you think it'd take to farm all this speed gear panda
potent pivot
that's not me lol
jolly sierra
welp
potent pivot
tf u mean doxxed myself
jolly sierra
he is using
shadowlands air components
is not hard to get compared to expected
also is a twink
so has no access to DF gear
worthy crag
Im surprised the armory even supports searching up remix toons
considering that its half a meme mode
wait no
potent pivot
Im surprised the armory even supports searching up remix toons
it does?
worthy crag
thats a bfa toon
potent pivot
lol
worthy crag
heart of azeroth? wtf?
jolly sierra
tf u mean doxxed myself
w armory lol
jolly sierra
heart of azeroth? wtf?
azerite gear has sonic fuel
potent pivot
it's a char designed specifically for speed
potent pivot
w armory lol
??? that's studen's char
worthy crag
but isnt that disabled outside of zandalar/kultiras?
jolly sierra
??? that's studen's char
tbh i have no idea about most of streamers
well regarding ur question
is easier to get SL gear
compared to DF one
potent pivot
tbh i have no idea about most of streamers
he makes YT vids about making gold
isn't DF speed gear just crafted gear
worthy crag
why u guys care about making gold, is it for tokens?
jolly sierra
its shadowlands crafted gear
jolly sierra
why u guys care about making gold, is it for tokens?
ye
potent pivot
the main thing i want is the Longstrider speed gear if it works outside of BFA
potent pivot
why u guys care about making gold, is it for tokens?
level boosting characters, buying crafted gear, buying tokens, etc
also speed sets are good for farming transmog
running through dungeons/raids
jolly sierra
as a twink
he is using
a lot of shadowlands crafted as i said
with air reagents
potent pivot
from being lower level?
jolly sierra
cuz the enchants gives 10% base speed in boots
potent pivot
hmm
wild
after prepatch came out
i saw this dude running around with like 300% speed
it was insane
jolly sierra
hm
potent pivot
maybe for a specific talent unlock or something
jolly sierra
i can tell u why he is above lvl 60
is because DF speed flask
but anyways check this out
potent pivot
yeah this guy made a vid about it as well
i should've gotten more into crafting in df, fuckin A
worthy crag
man
priest seems to have had such underwhelming changes going into tww
esp disc
and i feel like hpal is dog for solo bgs
jolly sierra
wasnt it bad in most DF too?
worthy crag
I think so
jolly sierra
i should've gotten more into crafting in df, fuckin A
tbh i rather prefer to get lvl 70 and farm
u can use a lot of stuff anyways
and the most important part is azerite gear
but BTW, cant pick azerite traits w new gear
seems bugged since prepatch
if u are picking a druid
pick dreamcarver
slash a dragon and buff urself w 10% more speed
even with a druid u can equip it
potent pivot
tbh i rather prefer to get lvl 70 and farm
well i want to farm gold on it too
so every bit of speed helps
farming 1 dungeon 30x per hour instead of 25x makes a big diff
potent pivot
wanna see my speed again?
potent pivot
yall are dedicated
running through dungeons at 300% speed is also fun af
jolly sierra
wtf those fidgets
potent pivot
yeah the fyrakk leggo bugs with some toys
and does some weird ass shit
i need to figure out which toy that is
jolly sierra
base without buffs
potent pivot
ah it's a toy from the curious coin vendor i think?
potent pivot
base without buffs
oshit
would be insane if you could use that in DF
or in arenas lmao
potent pivot
the one w constellations
ye
jolly sierra
would be insane if you could use that in DF
XD
alright ill chew my words
this is a 351k KB
