pvp

[radiant glen]

with thiefs

[grave basin]

so next duel you still have trinket

[radiant glen]

ill go pc type easier sec

[outer sky]

blades is 2m and duel is 2m. He vanishes twice in the next 90 seconds and he gets both back while you still have 30s on trinket

[grave basin]

then it's gg no re

delete duel from the game

[radiant glen]

ok ok so

[grave basin]

blades is more 1min cd tbh

[waxen meteor]

Does duel still exist in 11.0?

[grave basin]

you reset it super fast

[outer sky]

yes

[waxen meteor]

OK

[outer sky]

if you play thiefs which I usually dont and if you're going for a 1 shot you probably shouldnt

[radiant glen]

@outer sky

in this situation ur saying
u get opened on in duel
u trinket and cc and waste enough time that he cant 100-0 in this duel

at this point sub rogue has no trinket, has burnt both vanish charges, and is a reasonable kill target
with smoke bomb and good setup this is very very doable

but lets say hes playing 2 min blades and has it synced with duel again at the 1:30 mark and somehow u dont win before then
u need to kite and delay for the 30 sec, cc him, keep distance, pre vanish even and just sit stealth for a bit

that being said, this situation is incredibly rare at most normal CRs because almost every healer and dps in the game has a way to help even through duel

ur assuming no aoe healing, no passive healing, no hots, no group cds, no aoe cc, etc.

[grave basin]

big grats

[outer sky]

At the buzzer! nice!

[waxen meteor]

true pro

[wintry dew]

Fucking LEGEND

We love to see brothers winning

LET'S GO

[grave basin]

@outer sky doesnt look like beta is up any time soon

looking grim

[sick wasp]

huge gz fam

[outer sky]

There's 6 more hours before retail is supposed to be up. If beta is up in 4 I'll be happy

[mossy hornet]

do we get better gear tomorrow or do we get a new season or does everyhting stay the same?

[potent pivot]

there's usually some weird prepatch pve gear from events and whatnot, but the only things really changing are the TWW talent tree changes/tuning and we are getting warbands

[neat dove]

damn, didnt make it

maybe next time

[jolly sierra]

meh

hope next time xmogs are good

[chrome schooner]

got in range with a lobby that concluded 3mins before the end

phew

[jolly sierra]

oof

what was your ending score shade?

[chrome schooner]

3183

I was very unfortunate tbh

I could go higher on 4 occasions but never won that one last game

I had the 3k2 ticket twice I think, the other two times would hvae been some 3190 ish

[wintry dew]

I'll say it again, we LOVE seeing our brother rogues winning. Huge W Shadenox, lets fucking go

[chrome schooner]

I do like how the title sounds as well

[wintry dew]

Which one is it?

can't recall the s4 name

[chrome schooner]

Draconic

[lime venture]

I dont understand this change

https://tenor.com/view/ninja-smoke-bomb-fail-gif-7625864

[chrome schooner]

that's a huge nerf

wtf

[lime venture]

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

[chrome schooner]

but why

[lime venture]

but why

[chrome schooner]

were rogues so pesky being invisible for 3s

[lime venture]

yet warlock pets still follow you in stealth

[chrome schooner]

when did they make this vanish change ?

[lime venture]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/the-war-within-pre-patch-patch-notes-345356#item8

[chrome schooner]

I missed it when they revealed ptr builds in the previous weeks

Shadowheart now grants 2% Leech (was 3%).

lmao

[lime venture]

I saw it in a venruki video...
I miss shadowlands sub

[chrome schooner]

they give us leech in stealth when you don't fight in stealth

then they nerf it

who is designing that

[lime venture]

lmao yeah i saw that leech and was like so what you get like 3 attacks a game that count toward that

and most likely those are cheap shots

[wintry dew]

I'm pretty positive no one is

I believe they just didnt have time to cook rogue well enough, then some internee took the lead

SPOILER: he hates rogues

[chrome schooner]

there are also kind of no pvp changes

when our pvp talents are such a mess

outlaw and sub are ok with some unused ones, but assa choices are very trash

[wintry dew]

I'll give it some more weeks Shade, this isnt the final week b4 the season starts, we MIGHT see changes before it does

[chrome schooner]

like dagger in the dark for all specs, system shock for assa ...

Mmh

I don't like it when something is released giving unfinished vives

But yes, that's correct, maybe !

[wintry dew]

In PvE we are also kinda in shambles

[waxen meteor]

pfffffff for real

[wintry dew]

So, if the PvE side is in shambles, you can guess whats up with pvp

[waxen meteor]

i didn't read anything for 11.0 at all

[lime venture]

I was in the PvE channels earlier, they are dooming for real

[waxen meteor]

hopefully it will give me good surprise

[wintry dew]

You can just hop in the spec channels and ask the right persons

like Fuu for sub, Foreverguy for outlaw, and Whispyr for assa

Eleem is also doing godswork on Sub beta

[waxen meteor]

yeah i think i need some high level guidance before entering details

[wintry dew]

Just careful with outlaw channel

Dooming is real these past few... months

[lavish idol]

solo shuffle seems broken. got into a game with 5 people in starting area. it closed soon after, although interestingly I got mount %

[wintry axle]

hi im a returning sub/assa rogue going back to pvp in tww. How do we feel about our current state?

[wintry dew]

we dont

we're in pre patch, we can only be sure of whats to come once TWW hits

[wintry axle]

Alright, but the current state then. Do we feel justified? I have read a lot about us being undertuned at the moment

Which is not necesarily a bad thing, considering there weill be changes up untill TWW release.

[wintry dew]

Lets put it this way: We were probably the least loved class in beta. Now it is a waiting game until real tunning comes

[wintry axle]

Alright, thanks.

[wintry dew]

[heady swift]

So aka, we will be op again in S1 get nerfed to the ground, people will rage during S2, S3 they will give us a new talent which makes us op, to let us dry out in S4 again? Anyone want to bet with me?

[spring bough]

damn they bumped this to 8pm est LOL

are we logging in tonight or tomorrow at this point

[wintry dew]

Global release confirmed

[jolly sierra]

in the bottom

i think its fine if some ppl get 3 days ahead of expansion

so they ate all lag delays and bugs at first lol

[wintry dew]

The real beta testers

[wanton breach]

yup, gonna be like that again

[spring bough]

already bumped back another hour lol

warbands broke blizzard

[nova viper]

So.

DF end.

Now is time for TWW

[jolly sierra]

sexo 2 electric boogaloo

[nova viper]

seeeeeeeeeeeeexo

[jolly sierra]

SEXOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[steel scarab]

What is a Warband?

[waxen meteor]

seems to be just all chars under your account

this seems very helpful

https://www.wowhead.com/news/class-guides-now-updated-for-the-war-within-pre-patch-11-0-bis-gear-talent-345390?utm_source=discord-webhook

[spring bough]

im convinced Pika got insider info. there was no realm list. Pika went live. now we have a realm list lol

only a matter of time till we live

[waxen meteor]

wow

[halcyon timber]

Stuns additional targets for reduced effect like warrior stormbolt talent in mountain thane. The full duration is on the primary target (unless they decided to change all that recently)

[outer sky]

Weird question. Does anyone happen to have a screenshot of the wow login screen where it says maitenance will be until 5pm PST?

[wintry dew]

You can check either Blizzard Twitter or wowhead posts

#wowheadnews message

[spring bough]

yeah its 9pm pst now LOL

[jolly sierra]

so, how warbands will work w pvp gear?

can u inherit it or some shit like that?

xdd

[potent pivot]

i kinda doubt it, but i think at least honor will be account wide if i'm understanding correctly? dunno about conq

hopefully servers up soon and we can find out

looking at all the class changes as a whole is not making me feel good

[jolly sierra]

lets see, but tbh would be amazing if it works like in diablo 3

inheriting shit

[jolly sierra]

i wanna cut one of my nuts

[potent pivot]

so honor/conq prolly not transferrable actually

[grave basin]

Damn I went to sleep woke up ate breakfast touched grass

Wow still not up

[potent pivot]

[grave basin]

How am I supposed to doom like this

[potent pivot]

!stats

[lethal roost]

These are the recommended stat priorities for each spec in PvP. Please keep in mind that having suboptimal stats on some pieces such as tier set pieces is not the end of the world.

Subtlety: Vers>Mastery>Crit>Haste
Assassination: Vers>Mastery>Haste=/=Crit
Outlaw: Vers>Haste=/=Crit>Mastery
You likely want to stack at least 25% Haste on Outlaw for 0.8s GCD during ADR.

[potent pivot]

[jolly sierra]

its still a crappy system imo

for example imagine u have something like fangs of the father, scaled and completely functional (in an ideal world)

[potent pivot]

it's better than what it was

[jolly sierra]

it become warbound in the CURRENT SYSTEM

so u can inherit it or shit

[potent pivot]

half of the reason to play the game is to gear up and progress

it doesn't really feel that way in pvp but we're the minority

[jolly sierra]

we always were the minority

[potent pivot]

too many people would complain, even pvpers

it'd basically be the same thing as making pvp gear templates

a lot of people don't want that

[jolly sierra]

do u imagine

shadowlands s2 chains

scaled with some kind of shit?

oof

i still have them in the void deposit

[waxen meteor]

game on

oh shoot warband only up to 4 chars?

[outer sky]

Servers up!

[jolly sierra]

alright explorers

tell to us europeans wtf will going on

[potent pivot]

your favorites is 4 chars

warband is account wide, across all servers

[waxen meteor]

yeah tell you exactly what's going on

stuck at loading bar

been looking at this

[outer sky]

same

[waxen meteor]

yeah i got that part, thought it could be great to bind all chars

4 is fairly alright i am fine

[potent pivot]

what do you mean

those 4 chars are just for your login screen

it's basically just aesthetics

as far as i'm aware

[waxen meteor]

oh, so the actual warband is all chars

[potent pivot]

yea

[waxen meteor]

the 4 is like just face

[potent pivot]

mhm

[waxen meteor]

ok it took me 10 seconds more to decide pff

[grave basin]

now i can doom

[waxen meteor]

regardless, just looking at blue bar

[potent pivot]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24115313/get-the-band-together-for-warbands

there's all the warband info

[waxen meteor]

did you kill all addons first?

[grave basin]

im in love already

[outer sky]

No. Why would I do that

[waxen meteor]

bigger chance to log in haha

[potent pivot]

because many of them are prolly broken lol

[potent pivot]

[waxen meteor]

it looks like 3 rogues...

i did my screen with rogue/dh/ret/priest

[grave basin]

😂

sv hunter / rogue / mage / ww

[grave basin]

based chronos enjoyer

[waxen meteor]

the two on right side, too similar

but two on left and two on right are like ice and fire

love it

[potent pivot]

i have like 0 mail/plate transmog

[grave basin]

we're in

in updated all my addons

from curseforged

no problems

[potent pivot]

that's a good shout

gonna do that before i press big red button

[waxen meteor]

i am diabling all now

so i don't stuck on bluebar

[grave basin]

just update on curseforge

[nova viper]

Its time for see my 4 rogues

Im screen

[grave basin]

4 rogues?

[nova viper]

[grave basin]

lol

[grave basin]

i like how every1 has shadowflame

truely the best enchant since mop

[waxen meteor]

it's reallllllllly good

i also got the sha one from remix

haven't tried it yet

[grave basin]

remix one is bad

dont bother

[nova viper]

Be rogue is not just class thing. Is lifestyle

[grave basin]

has like 2 pixels

oh oh

[potent pivot]

yeah expect that for the next 11 months

lmao

[nova viper]

Less addons bro

[potent pivot]

ayo angels and demons lol

[nova viper]

Less addons less problems

[jolly sierra]

damn

[grave basin]

any1 here on NA?

[potent pivot]

ye

[grave basin]

whats your btag

lets do some testing

[waxen meteor]

damn i don't want to play sin anymore

no dance

where am i

1998?

[jolly sierra]

shadowlands

[outer sky]

So i think this is the optimal talent build?

[waxen meteor]

also i hate they took our range talent :(((((

[potent pivot]

can't right this second

[lucid citrus]

im in NA

[potent pivot]

maybe someone else is down

[grave basin]

Azliaris#1735

[lucid citrus]

added

did you get it?

[potent pivot]

i saw that

[grave basin]

add me trickz

we're hanging out infront of val

[vale basalt]

is the right side of the class tree still worth it without dance?

[jolly sierra]

with night elf i think so?

lol

[potent pivot]

atm i want to say yes because of the 6 sec subterfuge

you'll be able to use vanish like a dance, but vanish has 2 charges so it's kinda like dance was made into a 2 minute cd

can just keep a vanish banked for defence

[waxen meteor]

i feel sub is 1 step closer to cc bot

vanish spam cs

dance spam cs

vanish spam cs

dance spam cs

we doing the tea build or cb build now with sub

[potent pivot]

trying to set up my bars n shit

just DCed

[grave basin]

im getting pwned

by the sub rogue bullies

[potent pivot]

my WAs are broken

everythings fucked

[waxen meteor]

hmm

so ret doesn't have manual wing anymore

did a skirmish

[jolly sierra]

no wow in EU, so

[grave basin]

youre cursed blud

delete 2 rogues to uplift the curse

[waxen meteor]

okay it seems server is quite unstable

time to sleep

dc all the time

logged on rogue, ret, sp -> all reworked a bit, need to repick some talent

logged on DH -> zero change

[jolly sierra]

dh devs said "nah, we are perfect"

[worthy crag]

subterfuge is 6 seoncds now? wtf are they smoking?

[jolly sierra]

that is to compensate shadow dance removal in most specs tho

its the equal to former shadow dance duration

[worthy crag]

yeahhhh ehh idk

i dont agree with them making the spec even more idiot proof

[jolly sierra]

same

[waxen meteor]

#pvp message

SP talent rework lol

[jolly sierra]

anyways, im dropping my title, zaralek will be abandoned anyways from reset onwards

[worthy crag]

I think sub will do more dmg with big evis with hero talents

[waxen meteor]

imagine second row from last talents, two points -> decrease dmg taken by 2%

[worthy crag]

yikes

hunters have a last talent that removes poison and disease with feign death but

i guess thats not as bad

[jolly sierra]

is rogue shitty talent they make as placeholder still active?

was one which gaves avoidance or idk what shit

[potent pivot]

leech

and yes

[jolly sierra]

how tf that crap stayed on live as final row talent

[outer sky]

Reporting in. Rogue damage seems fine. I D/Cd in the 2nd game and in the first game my addons werent working so I'm comfortable adding 5m to this

[potent pivot]

the leech isn't final row

[waxen meteor]

is this sub or sin?

[jolly sierra]

wasnt it?

[grave basin]

what

you can queue for shuff?

[outer sky]

sin

[outer sky]

ya

[grave basin]

cool

gonna try on sv then hop on windwanker

ww without the celestial conduit seems kinda scuffed though

[jolly sierra]

is something looking disgusting atm?

[waxen meteor]

too early to say

[grave basin]

ngl this looks pretty cool

[waxen meteor]

i think people just trying random stuff

[outer sky]

Running these talents. I'd drop the vial talent for tricks if I want to play Thick as Thieves.

Macro'd Cold Blood to Kingsbane

[waxen meteor]

they shuld at least let us preview hero talent text

[jolly sierra]

agree

[waxen meteor]

these grid makes 0 sense lol

at pre-patch

don't you suppose to make player hype

not ...

[outer sky]

6 second subterfuge feels even better than I thought it would and I knew it would feel good

[waxen meteor]

man, i am dead in evasion+cloak lol

how was that possible, i am 100% certain i am facing the ret

[outer sky]

triple garrote and 3x cheap the kill target

[jolly sierra]

triple cheap would be a pig move i think as opener

u are doing ur shit

cheap

do ur finishers

cheap

then

cheap again

[lucid citrus]

Can anyone open up their bags? lol

[grave basin]

@outer sky sv feels so fucking clunky

i hate this new tip mechanic

[fallen scaffold]

no i cant open bags lol

[lucid citrus]

its the addons that prevented me from opening my bags lol

[fallen scaffold]

leatrix?

leatrix and details seem to be givign me hella ertrors

[lucid citrus]

mine was bagon

[fallen scaffold]

whys my sensitivity so fucked

[potent pivot]

theres some settings they added and defaulted to ON

[fallen scaffold]

do we know which

[potent pivot]

its a mouse setting

might not be default on for everyone

[fallen scaffold]

that was alread ythere for me

mine was on 7

[potent pivot]

wasn't on for me

[fallen scaffold]

had to put it down to 4 but still seems fuckey

[grave basin]

ww looks siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick

[fallen scaffold]

arachnophobia mode lol wut

[potent pivot]

we've known that was coming for like

months lol

[jolly sierra]

ye

[waxen meteor]

looks like ret is very sick too

my mouse is also super sensitive when the sensitivity is set to 2

[potent pivot]

i just use my hardware settings

don't use any game's mouse settings

[waxen meteor]

oh wait, the sensitivity checkbox is unchecked somehow

just like action bar

somehow all disabled

probably a addon thing

[fallen scaffold]

same

[grave basin]

yea the ret in my lobby almost did 10m more dam than me

[waxen meteor]

and they are not dying at all

[fallen scaffold]

ret3.0

[lucid citrus]

what color is the S1 set in TWW?

[potent pivot]

should be purple afaik

[grave basin]

also is it just me or does details not work at all

even on target dummies or in arena

[potent pivot]

conq gear is red, elite is purp

[grave basin]

ah nvm they uploaded the 11.0 one

still doesnt work

shuffle is popping off though, 2min queuees

[jolly sierra]

will we expect vanguardz doing a meme vid or something? lol

as u describe it sounds like ret SSJ god phase from DF s1

[waxen meteor]

don't worry it's such a temp phase

[grave basin]

fury warrior seems CRACKED

[jolly sierra]

its not a phase mom

https://tenor.com/view/gato-emo-gif-20706789

[waxen meteor]

I am sure something is broken on vanish

the 3 seconds not coming out or sth is not working

i kept coming out over and over again immediately after vanish

[jolly sierra]

those are 1.5 now

[grave basin]

it;s 1.5

heh

[waxen meteor]

regardless it's immediately out

[fallen scaffold]

shits so buggy

fuck

[potent pivot]

if you think stuff is buggy now

wait til you try the hero talents

[grave basin]

im doing negative dam

as ww

every round is just batman and robin

[potent pivot]

DK looking immortal

holy

[grave basin]

yea ww is unplayable

balancing fists around having haste

but we dont gear for haste in df

literally fisting for 10k damage

per tick

[potent pivot]

AMS is like 700k+ absorb

[grave basin]

look at the fucking dam difference kek

doing less dam than a destro getting tunneled every round by 2x melee

they should have made conquest gear buyable with honor

kinda dumb we dont get to test things with max gear in this meme phase

[worthy crag]

That kind of change is probably more than just a few lines of code

and has never been tested

Making it FREE however, might be another story

[grave basin]

they could bump up the honor gear to be same ilvl as conquest

[potent pivot]

making it free would be sick but hey guess what

why would you buy beta access if they did that

[grave basin]

like i wanna test out feral but i cant

cause no gear

[potent pivot]

none of my toons have s4 gear

so there's like no point in me testing stuff on them

[grave basin]

im testing arcane atm

how was rogue been for you?

[potent pivot]

me?

or galb

[worthy crag]

I think sub can be pretty fun but only cuz hero tree is giving us like 2 more modifiers on evis

and modifiers have a bad history with sub

[potent pivot]

sub also lost nightstalker

[worthy crag]

Did they ever fix that though?

[potent pivot]

but ig the 20% aura buff makes up for that

[worthy crag]

Like was it working?

[potent pivot]

yeah it was working afaik

i tested it just a couple days ago to see if it was still snapshotting bleeds

[grave basin]

it was for sure

yes you trickz

hows rog

[potent pivot]

all the bleeds i tested were doing the inc dmg

my highest geared toon is mostly in s3 gear

i unsubbed for s4

so i haven't ran any games yet

[worthy crag]

could still test for general feel and design

thank god no more dance for non subs

[potent pivot]

the nerfed melee range feels so odd

[potent pivot]

was a bad change imo

but yeah

outlaw basically requiring 25% haste now is weird too

overall feels fine

just think a lot of the changes they made are pretty bad

[worthy crag]

like?

[potent pivot]

nerfing melee range while even adding more range to some ranged specs, nerfing ADR, removing Dance from class tree, adding the Leech in stealth talent

[worthy crag]

I think the range thing was a healthy change

i only wish survival kept it

but oh well

[potent pivot]

i think making all melee specs the same

is a healthy change

but they should have brought all the other classes up, not nerfed the ones that were already used to the higher range

i'm sure we'll get used to it, it just doesn't feel good ya know

[worthy crag]

I think that'd be a horrible instance of a power creep

[potent pivot]

eh

good players were already used to positioning around it

[grave basin]

ok i figured it out

why ww does zero damage

they increased armor baseline for everyone

my MAGE btw

https://www.wowhead.com/news/secondary-stats-armor-and-stamina-increased-in-the-war-within-pre-patch-345405

[potent pivot]

the armor

[potent pivot]

[grave basin]

bruh youre up my asshole

[potent pivot]

[grave basin]

how does mage have 30% phys dam reduc

that's insane scaling

[potent pivot]

yeah they fucked up adding that much armor

DoT classes going to go ham

[grave basin]

WTF KEK

NO WONDER MY FIST WAS HITTING FOR 10K

[potent pivot]

damn so outlaw's probably in the fucking gutters right now

[jolly sierra]

GOD DAMMIT ASSA WILL BE CRAZY GOOD W THAT HAHHAHAHAAHAH

[grave basin]

yea my ww is benched

im trying assa now

they went way overboard with that armor

literally raid boss values

[potent pivot]

but

it isn't

not rn at least

[jolly sierra]

lets see at s1

but if they keeps those armor changes

damn, spec is not dead lol

[grave basin]

they always increase armor when season changes

to increase the curve

as we level up the % we get per point of armor will go down sharply

[potent pivot]

the nerf to KB is a pretty big hit to sin's kill potential

[jolly sierra]

wait and see

which spec does still have find weakness?

[potent pivot]

sub

[jolly sierra]

well, hope still works well for warriors lol

[grave basin]

assa feels half baked

[jolly sierra]

at least looks better than ww atm

damn

i think they should use tiger eye brew in that case

can u try it?

EU here, got inside

[grave basin]

need to fetch my son from school

..~

[jolly sierra]

but my main isnt here

lol

[jolly sierra]

F

why tf some of my xmogs are worn off

[worthy crag]

cuz ur not playing a "standard" race like human

[stoic spruce]

outlaw not too bad

[jolly sierra]

racist af

[grave basin]

how can outlaw not be too bad if even my rogue has 45%dam reduc

[worthy crag]

no, I just like to be "standard"

[stoic spruce]

idk

im out here soloing hoes

[stoic spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/world-of-warcraft-world-of-warcraft-classic-rogue-rogue-pv-p-gif-18999746

me to that ret earlier

[gusty hedge]

[jolly sierra]

did something changed?

im running at lightspeed

w azerite shit after the prepatch

and tbh was at half the speed before that as rog

dude im moving at hacker like speed

im recording this

[jolly sierra]

holy shit

[potent pivot]

tf u got going on

[jolly sierra]

a khaijiit gave me skooma

[potent pivot]

wat

[jolly sierra]

nah, azerite items went buffed really hard with ilvl

so they just rushed out in scaling wtf

[potent pivot]

apparently they added something to help with your camera issues tarny

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1ea7ro7/heads_up_the_awesome_camera_change_in_prepatch_is/

[potent pivot]

what ilvl are they

[jolly sierra]

like 320

[potent pivot]

i might need to farm some

whats your speed %

[jolly sierra]

324%

[potent pivot]

tf

link me some pieces of the gear

[jolly sierra]

pick gear from tol dagor, freehold and king rest

[jolly sierra]

went to sleep but can show my armory lol

[potent pivot]

that works

[jolly sierra]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/character/eu/sanguino/meimei

was even higher the ilvl: 332

[potent pivot]

yeah that's good enough ilvl to farm a lot of stuff

maybe not BFA/SL raids

idk if they nerfed bfa mythic or not

[jolly sierra]

idk but try going NM dungeons

those ones have the scaled items even before prepatch

[potent pivot]

NM?

[jolly sierra]

normal

tol dagor helm took me like 20 tries to drop

[potent pivot]

[untold remnant]

Kingsbane crits go brrrr tho. On PvP target dummy below 35% hp..

[untold remnant]

Good music edit

[tidal python]

hi,
can you guys recommend a talent build that i can use for pvp? everything's looking out-dated right now. (sub)

[wintry dew]

Murlok.io

Probably the best place to find a good build

[tidal python]

i cant import the talent builds there because it hasnt been updated yet with the new updates that came with the pre-patch

[untold remnant]

Frost DK slaps

[potent pivot]

no one has updated builds out yet for pvp, your best bet is just copying what most people use from murlok

any talents that changed with prepratch you'll just have to make judgement calls on atm

[rotund saffron]

assassination rogue pvp talent ?

[potent pivot]

disarm vs melee
hemo vs comps that stack
bomb almost always
veil vs scary caster/dk sometimes iirc

if you don't need anything above, tricks talent to buff your party members damage

[stoic spruce]

Hi Trickz

I'm sooooo excited for tww

I took melatonin and now I'm all warm and fuzzy

[rose iris]

anyone got some assa rogue pvp talent tree for ss

[potent pivot]

it's basically the same thing you can find on mulrok.io

some talents switch but you can still take the same node locations etc

[potent pivot]

same, just hope they do some damage control and fixes before launch

[stoic spruce]

I hope it goes live like this and they over correct us

[rose iris]

ty

[wise breach]

Sanguine Stratagem appears to be broken?

[potent pivot]

how so

[wise breach]

Hmm, nvm, it's just the tooltip

I thought it wasn't giving an extra combo point, but it just isn't updating the finishers tooltips with the values for 6 or 7 combo points

[potent pivot]

ah yeah i think that's just tooltips

[rose iris]

everyone playing night elf female rogue

[potent pivot]

night elf pretty busted

[surreal barn]

So who duped all their items with these warbands

You know someone found out how 👀

[potent pivot]

I’ve heard about a few bugs

Like trading an item to someone right now deletes the item

[surreal barn]

that’s quite a big bug 🪳

[rose iris]

Yeah ofc but still 😛

[potent pivot]

It’s a game made up of 98% meta slaves what can you expect

[rose iris]

True

im horde tho

[wintry dew]

Then play the better looking one

[outer sky]

I was wrong about my prediction that the removal of shadow dance would reduce the necessity of nelf

it feels even more mandatory now since slipping into stealth is so much more impactful

to be able to garrote everyone and triple stun the kill target

just feels so good

[rose iris]

huh

[wintry dew]

?

[wanton breach]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-huh-cat-huh-etr-gif-15332443943609734737

[untold current]

any good subrogue build yet

[wintry dew]

Everyone is just now starting to play pre patch, things are yet to be discovered, especially pvp trees

[untold remnant]

Well BG Blitz is horrible

The maps with nodes that you can cap and stay capped for a while are fine. But Twin Peaks/WSG is a shitfest where no one goes for objective 😛 no one is suited for FC

[pliant spoke]

how are we utilizing kingsbane now?

whats the ramp up to KB looking like?

[potent pivot]

pretty much the same

best use case is under 35% hp

if possible

[gusty hedge]

💯
silvermines one of the worse, mostly that and base bgs if the team plays like bots and follows each other with no objective

[surreal barn]

MM and affli are so fun in blitz though 😂

[pliant spoke]

did we get the new bg too? i forgot to look and the servers are down

[atomic loom]

Anyone have any luck playing sub yet, or too early?

[untold remnant]

Ret pala is overtuned

[untold remnant]

It's gonna be a shitshow until you get to certain rating. And at that point the lobby determines who wins, like with SS

And people will think they are giga players, but can't step foot in a real RBG

[lucid citrus]

Sub feels the same but with secondary stat, Armor and Stamina increased for everyone, you’ll notice the difference trying to 100-0 someone

So imo it’s too early to say anything about it

[spring bough]

Do we have full hero talents at 70 or do we have to wait till 80

[atomic adder]

80

Feels like the new SBS is pretty nice for sin

[river pollen]

Wassap chads. I'm returning to wow for the war within prepatch, i used to pvp a lot in season 1 of df and I loved how sub rogue played. Can anyone tell me if sub rogue is still poppin, or are we on the bench now?

[atomic loom]

we're behind the bench

[river pollen]

so assassination is the play now?

the 6 sec subertfuge sounds cool tho

infinite shadow dance

looking at the changes rn

[waxen meteor]

hmm........

dance provided huge dmg boost during the window in s4...

also without vanish offensively it's hard to trigger subertfuge anyway...

[river pollen]

true

i'm seeing that in the talent tree the subterfuge branch leads to 2 vanishes so maybe that will help a bit

[halcyon timber]

nightstalker going away was a good thing. Other stuff can breathe now.

The damage isn’t lost, its going back to the base kit and hero talents etc. its fine.

[grave basin]

hola fam

[wintry axle]

I dont like this for us in TWW, we're undertuned compared to everyone else

[atomic adder]

Well not compared to “everyone” but we do seem a bit undertuned. They have not done their big tuning pass yet though so be patient. Rogue not in a great spot - but I imagine that will change at least a little bit.

[outer sky]

Anyone else having issues with details not showing damage breakdowns?

[wintry axle]

its tough seeing all these subclasses like feral and stuff literally stepping on us now, hehe..

[waxen meteor]

well most classes suck ass at beginning of the expac normally stays high over the expac rigth?

[wintry axle]

for some reason its never the case for us, once we're undertuned we stay that way. But lets cross our fingers

[waxen meteor]

[grave basin]

outlaw is literally doing less dam than brewmaster

just wait for tuning

[outer sky]

holy shit ele shaman damage is nuts

[grave basin]

arms warrior hitting 500k ms non crit

[waxen meteor]

I feel we are quite weak atm

[wintry axle]

we're ass, haha

[grave basin]

it's not gonna get better btw

other classes are getting like 40%-20% of their damage from hero talents

[wintry axle]

they're not gonna tune us up, and say the hero talents are gonna balance us out

[grave basin]

meanwhile coup de grace is a dps loss

it's ok sniff the hopium

[rotund saffron]

assassination rogue pvp talents pls

[jolly sierra]

ty lol

[wintry axle]

CMQAam+v0FpP80IqJo3aSeC38yMjZmxMDDAAAAAAzyMmtZAAAAAAolthZMMYmZWGDmZMzYmZGzMW22GzwAAAAAAAD

[rotund saffron]

ty bro

[wintry axle]

pretty much the same as murlok.io, just some extra ones because of the new changes.

[untold remnant]

I feel pretty solid playing assa in the RBG blitz tbh

[outer sky]

why?

[wintry axle]

huh

[untold remnant]

I just play old build / the one that Starlink mentioned earlier today

WIth cold blood kingsbane

It slaps

[outer sky]

Recoup, shadowrunner, and maybe even blackjack all seem next to useless

I'd take nimble fingers, rushed set up, and cold blood

[untold remnant]

And we will get the stupid Fatebound coin (tails) that will do same damage as garrote + rupture

[wintry axle]

meh, coldblood does nothing at our state tho

[untold remnant]

It's just not very fun design

[outer sky]

Macro it to Kingsbane

[untold remnant]

compared to f.e. Sunfury Fire Mage

That shit will add insane burst on already insane burst

Fire mage with this: C8DArhxZfsv/vllYUrQS3iw2nPYZmtZZmZmxMzCwYGTjZYMAAAAAAGAAAAAgZmZmZYMjZsNz2MjZYbmZbYBDAAAAAAAA

[outer sky]

we used to need shadowrunner to get to subterfuge, now we dont

[untold remnant]

Clapping the hell out of anyone with combust living bombs

[outer sky]

and that also required tricks or blackjack

[grave basin]

does assa just not have a burst window anymore

without nightstalker

idk if i like that

[outer sky]

I play either of these, swapping out iron stomach if I want tricks for thick as thieves

[outer sky]

night stalker was just 10% it wasnt that huge

for 6s

I'm still hitting 450k+ kingsbanes

and now that cold blood is available your kingsbane will always crit

if anything that's burstier than before

since it was 50/50 if it would crit

[wintry axle]

true, cb might be the way. my bad

[outer sky]

Rushed set up and nimble fingers help with energy too which is good for sanguine blades

especially rushed set up now that we have 6s subterfuge

thats 24 energy saved in a cheap shot lock

[wintry axle]

but unbreakable stride is pretty good

atleast now that we're assa, not sub

[outer sky]

It can be, I might try it over nimble fingers

here's the thing though

slows and snares in the current state of the game are being constantly applied

what good does reducing a 10s slow to 7s do if its being applied every 5s

[wintry axle]

true

[outer sky]

The only thing i really miss about shadow dance so far is being able to garrote healers during my burst when they run into my smoke bomb. I still can but i need to vanish for it now

[wintry axle]

the second vanish helps a bit though

[outer sky]

it feels so good

for pressure and survivability

[wintry axle]

i love it

[rare crypt]

yea bro rogues are always bad in pvp, class is definitely doomed

[wintry axle]

we've had several seasons 1's where we're useless

[outer sky]

I still cant believe they insulted us with this shit

[rotund saffron]

Assassination Rogue what is the new skill route ?

[outer sky]

what do you mean?

[wintry axle]

considering running it to prove a point

cb kb actually feels good

[outer sky]

ya i told ya

[normal swallow]

where can i get an updated build to copy?

assass

[wintry axle]

CMQAam+v0FpP80IqJo3aSeC38yMjZmxMDAAAAAAYWMmtZAAAAAAoltxMmhxYmZWGDmZMzYmZGzMW22GzwAAAAAAAD this feels good, props to starlink, not me

[outer sky]

your CB crits will always be 10% less than they would be if we had nightstalker but them having a 100% chance to crit more than makes up for it. So instead of some 250k KBs and some 600k KBs you get consistent 400-500k KBs

[outer sky]

Feel free to swap out iron stomach for tricks or blackjack if you want

[wintry axle]

mine run tricks, btw

[outer sky]

ah yeah

then feel free to swap tricks for blackjack or iron stomach

[normal swallow]

Is this similar to how it played last season? im new to rogue and had just figured out the spec

like spread bleeds and kingsbane set upsd

[wintry axle]

pretty much the same, no dance though

double vanis

[outer sky]

its identical except now you have double the subterfuge time, 2 vanishes and no dance

[wintry axle]

ya

[outer sky]

and as of now I believe cold blood is the play

macro it to Kingsbane

[normal swallow]

So no more shadow dance and use cold blood instead?

[grave basin]

YUMmy

[wintry axle]

second wind is insane now, wth is this hah

[languid hollow]

Do you guys have any pressure as Sub?

[waxen meteor]

what is second wind

[wintry axle]

a warrior passive

the one that passively heals them, its overtuned atm, imo

[untold remnant]

So many things are. Rets will be a menace if they stay like this AND get their hero talents. Whoever made that mains ret

[waxen meteor]

my ret char is killing everyone in skirmish with random buttons

skirmish is full of good players yesterday so it's not like train the noob game

[grave basin]

what are we all doing

just shuffle?

[outer sky]

So real talk how long do y'all think this 6s subterfuge shit is going to last before getting nerfed?

There's no way it stays like this

triple garroting a whole team and still being able to fully DR stun lock the kill target

and you havent even kidney'd yet

the player base is going to go insane

My money says it's nerfed around 1 month after the season starts

[worthy crag]

Hopefully not for long

subt is just an idiot proof mechanic and always has been

"me rog, but me just press w cuz who cares if i get aoed out"

[outer sky]

you still def dont want to get AoEd out

extended subterfuge doesnt make that any more pleasant

[worthy crag]

with 6 sec subt it really doesnt matter a whole lot unless you want to start with a sap which isnt even that important tbh

or desirable

[grave basin]

one thing about 6 sec subt

is that it's so easy to get rid of shroud stacks now

[outer sky]

even before the subt buff rarely would you just get pulled out of stealth and left alone. Normally you'd get lassod, feared, stunned, etc

so even now after all of that you may have 1 global left if you play it perfectly

[worthy crag]

I wouldnt really call that "playing perfectly" more like given a freebie

[outer sky]

Yeah I know you wouldn't but you don't dictate the reality of the game is the thing

If subt is 6s and you get pulled out and feared for 5 then by necessity you only have 1 global to do anything with your subt window which requires you to not get follow up CCd and connect with your desired target within 1 global to make any use of it whatsoever

And let's not pretend one cheap shot is really that big a deal at the start of the game

And that's if the other team doesn't have a druid because if they do then you're getting stun>cloned for your full opener damn near every time

The OP part of 6s subt is more so what we can do mid game with 2 vanishes than what we can do with the opener

I mean it's good in the opener sure

[worthy crag]

I dont think that kind of situation rly happens anytime a rogue is pulled out of stealth with an aoe

maybe once out of 10

[outer sky]

It happens to me almost every time I get pulled out

What rating are you playing at?

Is the other team afk

[worthy crag]

Does your healer not dispel a fear

and isnt lasso like 25 yrd

[waxen meteor]

galb is normally in top10 range..

[outer sky]

Lasso is 25 yeah

[worthy crag]

Well i havent been in a while lol

Idk this is getting real nitpicky but the only undispellable fear is warrior right

say you get pulled out by whirlwind w.e you still have 1.5 seconds till the warrior can cast fear

just garrote, shadowstep which is longer than lasso range, another garrote

etc

[waxen meteor]

honestly i don't think warrior will waste fear on us at open even we get hit out of aoe

[outer sky]

So the issue is the rogue will sprint across the map to get the sap and because the rogue is so much faster and mobile than his healer he's often out of his healers range if he gets pulled out on the way to sap

[worthy crag]

Sprinting to get a sap is arguably not a very good strat

[outer sky]

No they'll storm bolt you and then disarm you

[waxen meteor]

they normally either start to attack us (like adding bleed dot), which is no longer a good plan

[worthy crag]

Its better to wait until your team is in positiob

[waxen meteor]

throw a bolt can be

[worthy crag]

Esp if ur playing with a mage, but I heard nowadays its just sin afflo pve so what do I know

[outer sky]

Enemy teams vs rogues will try and get in combat asap a lot of the time the only way you get the sap is to sprint for it. Especially vs something like a prevoker where you want to sap him before he shrouds

[worthy crag]

A voker with a brain will never cast shroud right out the gates vs a rogue team

But thats just my take

[outer sky]

I've literally seen prevokers shroud and then dragons breath for the CC immunity and mobility to get in combat

[waxen meteor]

yeah it's a dumb move from voker

[worthy crag]

This again depends on the team

[waxen meteor]

but if our teammate is equally dumb, it works

just like when we play alt, we know exactly what to do when rogue sprint out

but some guys just choose to not do those 🙂

[worthy crag]

But like I said getting a sap isnt rly what it used to be, eap if we are talking someone like a warrior

They literally can pick from intervene bladestorm warbanner as soon as their WA goes beep beep sap

[lavish idol]

holy fuck ele shaman is like walking terminator

[outer sky]

That's not how you play vs a warrior as a rogue

[waxen meteor]

i think you guys are mixing sin and sub

[outer sky]

Yeah they're disgusting rn

[lavish idol]

it seems all armor classes are like hitting stone wall too

[outer sky]

It depends on your comp but I mostly play assa fire so our opener on a warrior is either db the warrior from invis and sap the healer at the same time, or cheap healer, DB warrior, poly healer off of cheap, cheap warrior off of DB

That way they can't stop the go unless they trade trinket

[worthy crag]

Thats the thing though, sap literally doesnt matter

Just db cheap if they mongo choochoo to enter combat

[waxen meteor]

with mage, it's more about mage's position

[worthy crag]

No need to waste sprint out the gates

leaving the mage behind

[waxen meteor]

especailly they walk slowly in invisible

[worthy crag]

^^^

[waxen meteor]

you sprint -> teammate on mount -> probably okay

you sprint -> teammate walks in slow motion -> you 1on2

[outer sky]

Mage has 20s of invis which is plenty of time to get in position

[worthy crag]

Not if you sprint trying to saaaaaap

[waxen meteor]

that's not the problem

[outer sky]

A good warrior will start counting down from 20 and when he gets to 5 will drop banner

[waxen meteor]

the problem is you sprint, you arrive there let's say 5 seconds after gate opens

and mage is 99% nowhere close

[outer sky]

You don't need to sprint for it if you have a mage

[waxen meteor]

yeah that's what we trying to say i guess

[worthy crag]

But werent you saying rog has to sprint to sap cuz teams will rush to enter combat?

[waxen meteor]

sprint - sap, might not be the play nowadays

[worthy crag]

Unless ur playing rmd where everyone is in stealth for 20 sec

[waxen meteor]

anyway it really depends on comp

[outer sky]

With a full stealth team you don't. As something like assa affi you may

[waxen meteor]

against RM opponenet has no way to enter combat

just random aoe luck check

[outer sky]

I'm also talking about 3s

[worthy crag]

Yeah i am as well

I dont think there is a world where rmx needs to sprint out the gate

[waxen meteor]

experienced teammate surely on mount but behind piillar for rogue

so other party has to either rush our side

or we have a fairly good chance to sap

[worthy crag]

At least on a sub perspective the only comp id care about getting a sap is with a spriest

Or if im playing for memes and playing sub ww or sub ret

[lavish idol]

outlaw damage seems even more fucked than it was before 😦

might be time to just give it up

[grave basin]

i think im doing it right

[waxen meteor]

I see the conversation lol

[outer sky]

It's because it's all physical and armor got buffed. WW monk is in the same boat. They're all playing Tigers Eye Brew for the armor ignore effect right now lol. And CaptnMurphy's build is legit centered around jade lightning and chi burst because they can't put a dent in anything without doing spell damage.

[waxen meteor]

we trash class

[outer sky]

Every class that's heavy on physical damage is struggling right now

[waxen meteor]

but literally how do you see opponent typing?

oh, it's a new round of solo?

[outer sky]

Meanwhile ele shamans are running around one shotting everyone

[lavish idol]

I guessa outlaw has no options but respec

[grave basin]

new round of solo

[outer sky]

For now at least. There's no way it stays like this. Rogues, warriors, monks, and hunters will be deleted from the game if it does.

[grave basin]

(he died)

it wont

armor will scale properly as we level

[waxen meteor]

doesn't previous patch sort of nerfed armor impact?

[grave basin]

unless it's literally a bug

[lavish idol]

so assass is only option with bleeds poison etc¿?

idk how to play it hahaa

[grave basin]

you press garrote

and it does 60% of your dam

there that's assa

[outer sky]

Bleeds are still physical so it suffers as well. But assa at least has some spread pressure that helps a bit and some burst with kingsbane which is nature damage

[grave basin]

bleeds arent affected by armor

[jolly sierra]

he has a secret crush on u

[jolly sierra]

this

[grave basin]

i had an mm the other round

doing 170k aimed shots against a fury with 2m hp

[waxen meteor]

bleed is physical dmg but get no impact from oppoent's armor

like reality 🙂

[outer sky]

Oh shit seriously? I actually didn't know that. It makes perfect sense because why would armor mitigate your bleeding but I didn't think blizzard made the distinction I thought it was just physical or non physical

[grave basin]

bleeds hasnt been affected by armor

since 2004 vanilla world of warcraft

[outer sky]

Huh?

[grave basin]

bleeds

[outer sky]

Been playing since 2007 and never knew

So just FoK and mutilate and being mitigated for assass

[grave basin]

yea

all of which does 0 damage anyway

[worthy crag]

bleeds are not affected by armor

Easy way to test is to ask a druid to duel and see if your dots change between bear and human form

[grave basin]

[worthy crag]

they shouldnt

[outer sky]

I'm not denying it

[jolly sierra]

that is the reason u never heard an assa complain about losing find weakness

in last xp

[grave basin]

outlaw though.............

[lavish idol]

have prior prepatches etc had the same issue ?

[worthy crag]

prepatches are always wild

[outer sky]

Tbf outlaw is usually trash in pvp. Blizzard thinks of it as a pve spec so when it's good in pvp they nerf it hard. S2 and S3 DF were odd outliers

[worthy crag]

Wasnt sin oneshotting with sepsis vendetta vanish in df prepatch or something

[lavish idol]

I was playing it 1950 last night and I was pulling my own though, now it felt like I was hitting rocks with spoons

I recall sepsis being broken af ye

[outer sky]

I wonder how many games I've lost that I could have won if I sent my one shot on a druid instead of swapping off of him because he was in bear

[worthy crag]

It might still be tough cuz enraged regen would still benefit harder on bear

Or w.e their auto proc heal is

frenzied regen or smth

[outer sky]

Yeah true they'd still be tough to kill

But I've swapped off druids in tree form

Thinking

120% increased armor

No shot

Lol

I'm so bad

[grave basin]

outlaw was insane in SL s3/4

[outer sky]

Was it? I quit in SL s2

[grave basin]

yes it was so busted

[spring bough]

i love the few days of broken addons lol

[grave basin]

awc was using 2x outlaw teams

@outer sky

[outer sky]

LMFAO ill bet the wow community was losing their shit

[grave basin]

yea it was kinda stupid

awc was either rmp/double outlaw or pikaboo/whizk

super boring

[outer sky]

I mean tbf the healer and ranged categories don't look that much more balanced

[grave basin]

holy priest just was the trifecta with chastise stun

and did quite a lot of dam

mindgames back then was actually scary

bruh someone queue

[lavish idol]

anyone suggest a decent starter build for assass? seems icyveins at least very outdated

also a few i've seen don't take talent for two lethal poisons, but don't you need both deadly and wound..?

[outer sky]

Play this. You can swap iron stomach for tricks or blackjack if you want. Make sure to macro cold blood to kingsbane

[outer sky]

No you just need wound.

You play wound and crippling into 100% of match ups

You can play deadly INSTEAD of wound in RBGs if you're in team fight and there's already another spread MS on your team

But it's a very minor difference

[lavish idol]

did it used to be the case you needed deadly up to use envenom? I have not played in a looooong time with assass

[outer sky]

Don't think so

[languid hollow]

Is it normal now to do absolutely ass damage as sub? Cant seem kill jackshit

[outer sky]

Yes

Armor is scaling out of control right now so only assass is viable since it's damage profile doesn't care about armor

Hunters, warriors, and monks are having the same problem don't worry

[lavish idol]

in the last solo I did hunter did top dmg

think he was bm

[languid hollow]

Fair, felt like I couldnt be a threat to anything

[grave basin]

you know whats not having a hard time

uh dk

[languid hollow]

but is the armor scaling a permanent change?

[grave basin]

uh dk rn is immortal doing 50 billion dps

[outer sky]

Yeah but it'll balance out once we level to 80

[languid hollow]

Aight, this prepatch seems more crazy than normal tho

[lavish idol]

in a match there I did 4m dmg, the rest did 16+, it just seems absolutely broken

[chrome schooner]

Up until Cataclysm

[lavish idol]

I said it was a while haha

Did solo without reading anything and was chaos but for sure felt more dmg

Need to work out openers and general keybinds, was an utter mess

[spring bough]

in a solo shuff

DK doing 300k constant DPS

all 3 dots are top dmg now

[lavish idol]

@outer sky is crimson tempest strictly needed? I didn't use it once

[grave basin]

welcome to the future

[spring bough]

DK so scary rn lol

[grave basin]

it's the same on beta as well

[spring bough]

they are back to the same original OP they were in wrath with the DOTs lol

[grave basin]

every round my whole team is dead

cause the uhdk doing 500k dps

[spring bough]

never thought id see all 3 on the top again lol

[grave basin]

legit doing more dam than an aff lock

[outer sky]

In most match ups, yes. But there are a few where you may not get value out of indiscriminate carnage. In those situations you drop crimson tempest and indiscriminate carnage for doomblade and bone spike

[spring bough]

yeah this dk did more damage than me and the other 2 dps cmbined

sickening

[outer sky]

But the decision to play crimson tempest or not depends on indiscriminate carnage value not crimson tempest value, if that makes sense

[lavish idol]

I didn't say before but playing in solo shuffle, is it likely all 3 are so close that carnage applies to all 3?

[outer sky]

If you can reliably get it to spread to just 1 then it's worth

[jolly sierra]

that was in cata

[lavish idol]

I am feeling that smoke bomb and control is king maybe always useful? alternate with disarm and veil

[outer sky]

For example if I'm fighting a double caster comp and one of the casters is a mage then I don't take CT or IC unless the other caster is a demo lock

Unless I have a DK on my team in which case I always play CT and IC because the DK can make sure I always got high value from it

[jolly sierra]

smoke bomb is staple

[old brook]

smoke bomb has been the goat cd since it came out

[jolly sierra]

can sound hypocrite saying this but

i dont get how tf ppl can not run smoke bomb into arena being so good to ensure kills

[spring bough]

just realized solo BGs are live

bout to play the hell outta them lol

[spring bough]

survival hunter so stupid right now lol. ST build on the aoe dummies in valdrak and doing 1 milly dps

yeah explosive shot broken with these new talents lol

4 casts 23 million damage

[outer sky]

I don't run it as outlaw 90% of the time

[clever scaffold]

what spec is performing the best right now for pvp?

[outer sky]

Assass since it doesn't care about armor

Which is out of control right now