pvp

[jolly sierra]

so no chance to cc

[potent pivot]

oh did you get it?

[jolly sierra]

no

[potent pivot]

damn

still got a couple days

[jolly sierra]

ye i know

[outer sky]

Have any of you guys actually tried a strat vs healing heavy comps where you legit just afk behind a pillar and wait for dampening to ramp up?

It crossed my mind earlier. The only time my team ever beats a comp like splay for example is in late dampening

So like

Why get ourselves killed trying to fight them in low damp

When instead we can just pillar and wait

Idk maybe I'm fried

It sounds sweaty af but if it's going to be a 10m game anyway may as well give yourself the best chance to win right?

[potent pivot]

ye

but you're moreso trying to approach the match with the goal of prolonging it

obv if you just sit behind a pillar they're still going to come at you

so you're really just playing it safe, conserving your healers mana, while doing some dmg where possible

[outer sky]

Double caster is a lot less scary when your team controls the pillar though

You can almost always line at least 1 of them

[potent pivot]

yeah i just think you want to be moving around a bit still, like not hugging 1 pillar the whole time you're waiting on the damp

you can still pillar hug ofc

but i feel like you still want to be dotting shit up, kidney damn near on cd etc

[outer sky]

Man every time I leave the pillar I get coiled, feared, rooted, and blasted for 80% of my hp before I can even build combo points for a kidney shot

[potent pivot]

what comp are you playing

[outer sky]

Assa/fire/X

I'm fully geared and I have died 100-0 in a coil

On a number of occasions

[potent pivot]

yeah i mean they kinda have to be bad to lose

but if you want to damp then you have to also try to play on mana i feel

so if you guys aren't doing anything to them they still have the better chance of winning late

kinda a hail mary to play to damp and just hope you can kill them in a set up

a good fire mage can do gnarly dmg with you but still

[outer sky]

My theory is that since our damage is much burstier than theirs and our defensive are less reliant on healing, then if we can get the game to a point where heals aren't really doing much anyway then we are in a good situation to beat them

[potent pivot]

anything's worth a shot

have you tried looking for a vod of assa/fire vs splay

like from palumor or kalvish

they both play a decent bit of assa/fire/x

[white gazelle]

What rogue spec is looking good for tww PvP

[outer sky]

Yeah I watch Palumor all the time I'm actually a mod in his chat

Issue is when they play against it they usually lose too

[potent pivot]

yeah remember the other night i said something to you in chat

[outer sky]

As of right now, none of them

[outer sky]

Oh yeah!

[white gazelle]

[potent pivot]

we won't really know until the season starts

[white gazelle]

Holy

[potent pivot]

rogue will be fine

[outer sky]

If the current beta went live today rogues would not exist. Thankfully there's still a few more weeks of tuning.

[potent pivot]

yeah after i messaged you on disc i noticed your twitch was zicore

[potent pivot]

why do you think this

[white gazelle]

Yea I just really wish I knew what was going to be good im stuck between 3-4 classes and want to play what I enjoy jus not get dumpstered on

[outer sky]

@potent pivot problem is even those guys, heck even Nessper, usually end up Floor PoV vs Splay

[potent pivot]

assa still does decent dmg on beta from what i've seen

[potent pivot]

rogue almost always has minimum 1 good spec

[white gazelle]

Like survival looks fun, enhance, mage, and rogue .

[potent pivot]

with our kit rogue is good even with bad dmg tbh

[potent pivot]

yeah and they're playing vs the best teams that play it typically

i almost don't get why it's so good

i see pika play shadow/assa/sham and shadow doesn't seem all that great

they get destroyed by pala/warr/fweaver

[outer sky]

It's massively overshadowed by other melee dps right now. I'm not saying it's not technically viable but compared to the other options it's seriously lacking which will cause people to prefer one of the many better specs. Like right now WW monk is doing really good damage but they're massively underplayed because who wants a WW monk when you can have a DH instead

[potent pivot]

you mean pve damage?

[outer sky]

No I've tried it in SS on beta

[potent pivot]

because nothing is really changing on assa for example

we're just getting hero trees added

and assa's hero tree seems like it does ok dmg

it's nothing crazy but it's not bad per se

i do feel like sub and outlaw are going to need help, but apparently pve wise sub is doing good dmg

also the sub tier set looks strong

assa 2 set looks trash but the 4 set looks good

[outer sky]

Well there's that annoying embellishment that reduces damage taken while stunned which is a nerf to rogues more than any other class. Assa is also losing shadow dance which means we lose the 10% damage buff it's currently providing for our kingsbane window. And stats are naturally much lower % wise than they are now and assa scales incredibly well with mastery as we know which means it's usually going to be better later in an xpac when we have a ton of stats. Classes/specs that don't scale particularly well with any given stat or are neutral towards their stat distributions tend to be better early on as they're not missing out on as much relatively speaking.

[potent pivot]

scaling is a meme bro

[outer sky]

But of course this all depends on how the actual numbers are tuned

Assa on beta doesn't feel nearly as good as assa on retail

[potent pivot]

everyone will have more main stat and less secondaries, thus being in the same boat

a lot of specs that stack haste will have less haste, etc

[potent pivot]

this is also hugely attributed to by bugs i'm sure

the list of bugs affecting assa rn is pretty big

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/984903821807480886/1260493142097137715/image.png?ex=669e05b7&is=669cb437&hm=793e1f6779bdeb24d6efe59420c9df20828f332976f38fd9e3f6c7e2a89a57e8&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=810&height=1009&

[outer sky]

Yes but there are some classes that simply scale better with stats than others. Remember s4 of BFA when BM hunter became insanely OP? They didn't change anything about the spec. It just got to a point where they were able to hit their mastery breakpoint that turned them into dps gods

[potent pivot]

didn't bfa have corruption n shit

[outer sky]

Ya

[potent pivot]

i came back in SL s1

[outer sky]

Fire mages were the biggest offender

But the point is not every spec got the same relative boost that BM hunter did

Because BM hunter simply gained more dps per stat point than other specs

Assa is a similar kind of spec

[wintry dew]

Guys, a bit random but

Whenever you guys are feeling stressed because bad Qs

come here #1146207476983812117

[potent pivot]

lmao

[outer sky]

Awww cute

[potent pivot]

i wish i knew the technical terminology better, but classes scaling better than others isn't really a thing

[outer sky]

Fire mage got to a point where mastery was outscaling main stat

[potent pivot]

stats have changed since then

they were changed at the beginning of SL

[outer sky]

Yes they've added a DR

While that mitigates the situation it doesn't resolve it

On retail right now it's literally impossible for an assa rogue to have too much mastery

[potent pivot]

it's really not

[outer sky]

But there are other specs that stop benefiting from stacking a stat long before we get to the DR point we're at with assa

[potent pivot]

idk why this has been a thing for so long in the pvp community, but stacking stats to the moon makes 0 sense

[outer sky]

It's just about damage maximization. Having the most amount of mastery possible as an assa rogue will produce the highest damage so there's no reason not to stack it

[potent pivot]

it's not that they stop benefitting. it's that they want more of the other stats.

[outer sky]

On WW monk, mastery is your best secondary stat as well but you stop stacking it around 55% ish

Whereas us rouges would love to have 100%+ mastery

[potent pivot]

if someone was actually trying to maximize their damage, they wouldn't stack over 100% mastery. people do it because they see others doing it.

very few people actually painstakingly test different stat distributions

[outer sky]

So when I was optimizing my gear, every time I'd get a new piece I'd queue a skirmish and swap it on and off with the old piece

And I'd only keep the new piece if the tool tips on my abilities showed a higher number

I'm at 100.4% mastery and so far this is showing the biggest numbers

[wintry dew]

In theory, the more mastery you have, the bigger numbers will be

[outer sky]

At some point versatility should overtake mastery due to the stat DR

But I don't think it's currently possible to reach that point

[wintry dew]

The thing about DR's is that, at certain %s (obviously speaking in a PvE side of things) you start losing value on how much the stat is already DR's, so the same item, with crit instead, might prove to be an increase in damage VS mastery per example

Meanwhile, Assa in PvE wants all 4 stats balanced 😛

we don't stack a single one

[potent pivot]

a big reason pvpers don't like crit for example is because "they don't like to leave their damage to RNG"

which really when you think about how this game works doesn't make a lot of sense

[outer sky]

That's right. In pvp you only want crit if your spec has a modifier for it

Like outlaw rogue BtE crits doing 4x damage

[potent pivot]

ehhh

not exactly

if you check shadenox's gear he has more crit than any other assa rogue i know of

he has around 34% crit

because the more you crit your FoK the better, and more crit=more dmg regardless

[outer sky]

Just because a really good player can make it work doesn't mean it's good advice for everyone though. I remember back in SL Pshero played this super troll legendary just because he liked it and obviously was successful with it

But you'd never suggest it to typical player

[potent pivot]

sure, but i'm going to be honest i think shade actually looks into things more than others

making an assumption ofc

[wintry dew]

We could tag him and ask for his opinion on the matter, he does indeed have more insight on it than me

[potent pivot]

its all good, i don't like pinging folks out of the blue lol

the point is just because your tool tip says more dmg isn't really the proper way to know if you're doing more dmg

[outer sky]

I don't really see the benefit of the FoK crits. Once you have your bleeds rolling your only finishers you're using are to reapply bleeds which there's ample time to do even if you never crit. Sanguine Blades, as much as I dislike that talent, gives us an incentive to not needly spend energy on finishers

[potent pivot]

fok critting means more combo points

[outer sky]

Yeah seal fate

[potent pivot]

you should also be spamming fok to keep poisons on everyone you can

you're not getting energy regen from bleeds unless the target is also poisoned

[outer sky]

I tend to side with nessper on this one where I think people spam FoK a bit too much. You don't need to use it every global to keep your poisons up and the energy you spend on it often will do more damage fueling sanguine blades than it will as up front FoK damage. A lot of the time it's fine I think to just let your bleeds tick

[potent pivot]

there's also this

so crit and fok just play more into keeping your energy coming back in

you don't need to press it every global sure

but you can easily spam it while pooling your energy above 50%

[outer sky]

Yeah well it kinda feeds into itself. The more venomous wounds procs you get the more you're free to press globals while staying above the sanguine blades energy threshold

[potent pivot]

ye it's just a feedback loop

[outer sky]

When I do SS with another assa rogue, and I'm above 2.6, 9/10 times they're pressing FoK wayyyy to much

[potent pivot]

i also think people vastly underestimate haste on assa

[outer sky]

I agree with that. Especially with the sanguine blades talent.

[potent pivot]

well haste for energy regen is almost non existent

[outer sky]

You mean for the bleed ticks?

[potent pivot]

but making your bleeds tick faster+adding extra ticks does still play into the feedback loop

[outer sky]

Well that is indirectly haste for energy regen

[potent pivot]

yeah just wanted to point out that haste barely affects energy regen directly

you barely notice a difference every ~30% of haste

[outer sky]

I've read that yeah

[potent pivot]

but all of SL assa stacked haste over crit/mast

we got a bunch of energy talents and everyone acts like haste is dead because of that, which really makes 0 sense

[outer sky]

I think it's because of how the assa damage profile has changed. I'm sure you remember not too long ago bleeds in pvp were mostly for energy regen and the bit of damage they did was just kinda nice. Back in Legion and the first half of BFA envenom was your big dam

Now envenom hardly seems worth pressing

[potent pivot]

i didn't play back then :d

[outer sky]

Assa dam on details used to look like a devoker where envenom was disintegrate

[potent pivot]

SL had so many different legendaries and meta changes i barely remember them all

[outer sky]

Bleeding was just something you did because you had to in order to press enevmom more

[potent pivot]

but i remember the vendetta leggo quite well

[outer sky]

Man I miss vendetta

Deathmark is so cringe

[potent pivot]

yep

[outer sky]

Idk why they changed it

[potent pivot]

they supposedly want to make all 2 minutes feel worth pressing a global

[outer sky]

Vendetta was on the GCD until s3 BFA

[potent pivot]

but left sub alone

[outer sky]

But as annoying as that was, it still felt more worth the global than deathmark does

[potent pivot]

i like that we got a new CD and a new animation

rogue in general, all 3 specs, feel very stale

have barely changed in so many years

[outer sky]

Sub changed like crazy in legion

[potent pivot]

deathmark def does more dmg than vendetta

[outer sky]

Not for the better though

[potent pivot]

vendetta being just +20% dmg was boring

DM just shouldn't be dispellable

[potent pivot]

yeah but rogue as a whole hasn't seen much change since then is what i'm saying

[outer sky]

It used to be 30%

[potent pivot]

compared to ret, mage, etc

[potent pivot]

yeah i'm just saying +x% dmg is boring

[outer sky]

Honestly the thing that makes deathmark nice is just the energy regen

I've never felt like an extra 50% garrote and rupture damage was that impactful. However it is nice for procing sudden demise late in the game

[potent pivot]

the only time vendetta was truly scary was when we used the vendetta leggo (from my experience)

[outer sky]

Oh no no no

Pre nerfed hemo

With vendetta

Was very scary

40% MS

[potent pivot]

it never felt that scary to me idk

[outer sky]

Back in SL when I first got elite I was able to play almost every game and win on mana just because of that

[potent pivot]

assa iirc wasn't super good anyway til we used that leggo

like s1 it was pretty bad

[outer sky]

S1 it was good with the pre-nerf crit leggo

Vendetta>vanish>envenom>marked for death>envenom

Could 100-0 someone

[potent pivot]

after the +40% dmg aura buff or w/e?

[outer sky]

I think so

I just remember after sub for nerfed in like the 1st 2 weeks swapping to assa and globaling everyone with that combo

[potent pivot]

cuz at the beginning of the season assa was like the worst spec in the game iirc

[outer sky]

Yeah it got better

[potent pivot]

i was mostly raiding back then so idr as much about pvp

i remember sub wanted the first boss trinket

for pvp

skulker's wing

[outer sky]

https://www.twitch.tv/partywafflesx/clip/PoliteSucculentStrawberryPeteZaroll-5iEo3Dt94GJUvz25?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time

@potent pivot

here's me demonstrating

using partywaffles as my target dummy

and that was only one envenom

i didnt get a chance to do the Marked for Death>Envenom

he died too fast

[potent pivot]

Man losing marked for death

Has got to be the worst change we’ve seen in a while

[potent pivot]

And I think I remember palu making a vid about this build back then

[outer sky]

It was disgusting

[potent pivot]

yeah

kinda sucks they seem to be wanting to move completely away from killing someone in a set up

[outer sky]

Yeah with the CC nerfs plus this new stun embellishment it sure seems that way

It's so gross when I queue SS

And these warriors

And DKs

And whatever

Just use their CC without caring at all about the DR

They're just trying to be disruptive

[potent pivot]

yeah i mean it almost doesn't matter anymore

like if you're playing rogue in 3s ofc it matters

but in shuffle idk everyone is just throwing out all their cc on cd

[outer sky]

90% of the time I CC someone on my monk it's to keep from getting kited

I don't actually care about the CC itself

[mossy hemlock]

Is there a decent PVP guide? Icy veins?

[pale storm]

2 days left of the season

[potent pivot]

[mossy hemlock]

I just wanna fuck around in BG's a bit

Haven't played assa the entire addon

[outer sky]

To be fair assass isn't changing much

[mossy hemlock]

Lol

PVP

[sick wasp]

bruh whats up with shuffles being full of tanks now

prot warriors ccing healers

prot pallies

bears

like

[radiant glen]

ppl who play those classes can respec tank for the lower title cutoff

why get 3.1k on ret when u can just get 2400 on prot :^)

[sick wasp]

imagine playing prot war in arena

just to get ignored

completely degeneracy

[stoic spruce]

Based prot warrs

Love me some prot warr gameplay

[jolly sierra]

@outer sky dude im starting to lose faith

yesterday got trimaz at match wtf

[outer sky]

I've gotten metaphors twice and still won at least 3

One time went 5-1

[jolly sierra]

god dammit

[jolly sierra]

}

[radiant glen]

went into lfg saw a familiar name

👀

[wintry dew]

👀

[potent pivot]

[outer sky]

Ti's I

Couldn't get a group though

[outer sky]

This chat lol

[solid wharf]

Any advice for beating a ret pally as assass rogue? I feel like I'm doing something wrong here

[jolly sierra]

go and reset

start w garrote

so he cant stun u

bubble or bop = run/vanish if cornered

[solid wharf]

What if they have healer thats mobile like prevoker or monk? I can never figure out how to get a re without getting run down by at least the healer while the pally swaps to my healer

[jolly sierra]

poisoned knife

[potent pivot]

if you're talking about shuffle or 3s you don't need to run from bubble/bop, just swap

depending on their comp pally isn't going to be the KT anyway

[potent pivot]

what's the context? 2s, 3s, shuffle, enemy comp?

[solid wharf]

2s sorry

[potent pivot]

ah yeah that's different

[solid wharf]

Usually been struggling against ret pallys lately

[potent pivot]

are you playing with a healer

[solid wharf]

Resto druid

It seems like if i run for a re he just gets one shot by whatever we're against

[potent pivot]

thats

not good

[solid wharf]

I try to gouge to peel and slow them then run

Lol yeahhh I'm just trying to see what I can do to help and work on my own stuff

[potent pivot]

your healer also needs to position better for the re it seems

if they're playing resto that shouldn't be too hard vs most things

but vs pala maybe try keeping more pressure on their healer

[solid wharf]

They're playing resto but cat - I don't play rdruid at all but they're in melee about 80% of the time

Maybe ill just try to pay better attention to my rupture timer on the other target

[potent pivot]

pala tends to be a kinda shit KT vs assa

n tbh idk if it's different for rdru in 2s but in 3s they sit max range a lot

might be different if they're trying to do more dam since it's 2s ig

[jolly sierra]

found the dumbest lock ive met ever today

was a demo, used fel lord, shadow fury and axe toss on kill target

so he messed up by A LOT the DRs

told him to stop, he said "stop what" he kept doing it, in round 6 i killed him with a KB

i was mad af at that point, he ended 2-4, me 4-2

[outer sky]

Playing assa/affi can I get some input on this?

[potent pivot]

would spamming garrote instead of cheap be ok

that sounds odd ngl, but i've barely ever played with aff

saving dance for peels sounds very bad though

using van for peels if you absolutely have to would be better imo

[plucky escarp]

Yeah you’d think Shadow Meld and vanish for cheap peels if necessary over shadow dance

[jolly sierra]

he is telling u to spam stuns and maybe thinks u are sub

[outer sky]

so you cant dodge touch of death anymore?

[potent pivot]

was he behind you?

nvm TOD has a cannot be dodged tag

[outer sky]

thats asinine lol

why

the damn monk can drop me to ToD range with 2 RSKs and I dont have a single defensive to stop the touch

[jolly sierra]

a guy was harassing me in mid of match cuz got mad how i was playing

was from kazzak ofc, even insulted me for aspiring to just 2k1

i just said "tbh i dont care, already got my goal, also im not the guy harassing by DM constantly"

guys, i will be honest

im done w 2k4 as goal

but will play until tuesday anyways

my goal is buying TWW rn

guy was mad af after he told me "GREAT BOMB" and replied him "GREAT GAME"

oh fuck was funny af

[untold remnant]

VS double melee, Affli should mainly kite back the melee so healer gets out of position, then you can punish them all. I would use dance for damage, or have recently used it more like sub would to do a single target stun rotation with kingsbane.

Vs. Double caster I still feel like the silence is better

And someone mentioned here yesterday to mainly only refresh bleeds and let sanguine blades tick more. After using envenom less and doing that I actually saw huge improvement in damage/pressure and not feeling starved all the time

Shadenox has lot of Assa/affli videos online btw, where he breaks down with text what he is doing

[sick wasp]

depends there is no fix use in 3s.RL+healer u normally start with dmg.If u can maintain high dot pressure and force a trinket u can win much faster than dampening

if u que into some melee cleave or TSG or thug cleave

u might wanna dance to stop the go

save ur lock/healer

when i practiced RLS i was sub but it rly doesnt matter,can be pretty situational

if u healer asks for peels u should peel

if u lose the dmg race that is

[tidal python]

hi

[wintry dew]

Hi

[tidal python]

i want to do some pvp before the tww comes. is it possible to have 2v2 with sub + healer? i think sub is a bit nerfed but idk

[wintry dew]

I believe most subs prefer a second DPS like a mage, but you should be fine with an healer if you both cc properly

[tidal python]

as far as i check the top board, everyone plays with different talent builds, is there a talent build you can recommend

i didnt want to be misguided, maybe they prefer one because they play double dps and another build is preferred when playing with a healer

[wintry dew]

You're are 1/2 days away from the end of the season / pre patch and stuff will change

So I would probably just wait until prepatch hit so you can start learning (kinda) the new stuff

[tidal python]

ah okay thank you

i normally follow murlock.io and ugg pvp talent guides. are these the right options?

[wintry dew]

They are yes

Most of us use murlok for good info

[tidal python]

thanks mate ❤️

[wintry dew]

I have no idea what will change for sub specifically, so you could either check Wowhead or ask directly in #tww-subtlety

Although many have no idea what the changes will mean to us in pvp specifically

[outer sky]

guys wtf

Lay on Hands did nothing?

[wanton breach]

Cute matching names :3

[sick wasp]

it bugs some times

it could also been completely absorbed

had it twice not healing anything to a mage yday

[outer sky]

comp was assa/aff/rdruid idk what could absorb LoH. Low damp too. Only 1:39 into the game

[sick wasp]

shield of faith

converts healing into shield value

20% of it actually iirc

so i can see something like

shield=>judgement=>shield=>gets the faith buff=>loh=>extends shield value

maybe u can see it from the healing breakdown

its a probability

[outer sky]

lmfao I just did an SS match where the hunter's pet died and he absolutely refused to turtle to rez it and we stopped him from casting revive pet 11 times before he finally got it off

[sick wasp]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8_6hP6-pZYI

check this mfker out

thats one sick cookie

[thick slate]

Season ends tomorrow? As in rating greys out

[sick wasp]

yeah think so

its prepatch tomorrow isnt it

[outer sky]

the wins are more than doable the problem is the queue times

[sick wasp]

ofc u will try

no reason not to

[outer sky]

Queued into Trill

[plucky escarp]

Damn and Alexander Skarsgard too

[untold remnant]

Hate the theme, but Fatebound numbers and usability is WAY ahead of Deathstalker

[calm heath]

Reminder for anyone going for seasonal rewards that the season ends tonight at 10 PM Pacific Time (PDT)

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/to-do-before-war-within-pre-expansion-update/1894312

[surreal barn]

“Heads...You Live, Tails...You Die.”

[glass bear]

anyone did pvp on the beta

how are the specs looking?

[nova viper]

2400 is Elite?

Or 2100?

[nova viper]

Zugchief is true zug zug warrior

Ez 5 rounds

[wanton breach]

2400 is

[untold remnant]

Doing some now with assa. Fatebound is passive and Tails does more damage then rupture and garrote combined if you keep rerolling it.

Deathstalker's mark is sketchy as ambush opener is weird (add it to cheap shot or something would be a good fix), and while envenom does good damage, it doesn'really fit with current playstyle of assa. Also Fatal Intent is bugged, in duel it just didn't proc or did 17k damage, that could be a nice execute loop with fatal intent kingsbane sudden demise.

But.. it feels untuned

[outer sky]

2400

[glass bear]

sweet thank you for sharing

[waxen meteor]

you mean next pac ::)

[pale storm]

A lot of wins to get done in a day, pray for quick Qs and 6-0s

[waxen meteor]

76 wins

my ret alt entire season = 45 wins...

stopped at duelist months ago..

you not gonna make it...

unless EU queue is super fast...

[idle root]

is everything pvp related going away this next reset? 1800 sets, illusion etc? or only titles

[pale storm]

All rewards, I believe you can still play the game modes but won’t get reward or titles during the pre patch

[idle root]

gotcha, thanks

[waxen meteor]

what's in this prepatch

sounds like afk period..

[idle root]

new talents i guess

[pale storm]

Get used to new talents/rotations/abilities

[waxen meteor]

don't we get new talent from level 71?

[idle root]

^

[grave basin]

@outer sky queued into kennie..

on his prot.....

[idle root]

say what

[grave basin]

2nd prot lobby this week

omega freaking aids

you cant shake them off you

[outer sky]

I had a lobby on my evoker with 2 prot pallys and a guardian druid

[grave basin]

that has to be illegal

in 24 states

[jolly sierra]

guys TBH if i dont get the 2k4 lemme tell u at least i tried, and will need more practise, just since this XP can get consistently 2k1 as rog

maybe in TWW can be a 2k4 player, but seems is not the case for now

[waxen meteor]

let's get it done 11.0!

[jolly sierra]

sure thing

there are still some time to see if i get a lot of good lobbies in a row lol

[steel scarab]

I will say it is not easy Panda

[outer sky]

What's your CR?

[steel scarab]

Assassination has some strong matchups, but in solo shuffle we have a lot of bad matchups I feel

[outer sky]

Kinda goes for every class and spec though. The only time I really struggle in SS as assa rogue is against caster/MM hunter comps. Sometimes mage/warlock can be hard too if the mage is really good. Otherwise we have it a lot better than most classes do right now.

Assassination into unholy DK in particular feels so good

Whenever I get a UDK lobby I know I'm at least not losing rating because I'll win every time I'm against him

Unless I massively misplay or my team trolls

[steel scarab]

I agree, we feel very good against UH DK, but I also didn't see those very often

[outer sky]

There's not a lot we feel bad into though except maybe a really good survival hunter that actually knows how to use his mending bandage to fuck us

[steel scarab]

Frost Mage feels awful to me. Hard to win with, hard to win against

MM hunter I felt strong against but it never felt good when he was my teammate

UH DK I felt strong against but they never felt like strong teammates unless we were against casters

Warrior and DH I felt OK against and they were good teammates

Ret paladin I felt awful against if they used BOP well and they weren't generally great teammates

[jolly sierra]

dropped to 2200

highest was 2320

maybe my worst matches were mugambala w casters and anything which involves 1-2 warrior and/or DHs for DR issues

[outer sky]

Frost mages often play blink stun into rogues which dicks their mobility so you kinda have to exploit that and punish them for it. I think as rogue mains our brains just tend to think "can't stun him? Welp, that's not a viable kill target then". When in reality a frost mage playing blink stun is just another clothy that can't kite you very well.

[steel scarab]

Maybe, idk. I was probably just playing poorly, I'd chase them around and never be able to outlast their defensives, and they'd just randomly explode me when I'd be frozen solid or whatever that nonsense was. I fully acknowledge that I did not understand how they worked and what their kill windows were so it made them especially difficult

[outer sky]

Oh here's a tip if you're not already doing it

[steel scarab]

It seemed when I was frozen solid or had the slowing frost debuffs on me, I'd be in massive danger of dying. That's my guess. But they didn't have any obvious tells like rogues do with dance, warriors with death wish, etc

[outer sky]

Cram as much of your go into a garrote silence as you can because they can't blink while silenced

[steel scarab]

I'm not playing anymore this season, I hit 2400 and while i absolutely love the gameplay, the queue times at that rating are absolutely shit and not worth waiting for

[outer sky]

Oh yeah I'm at 2.7 and I'm sitting like 45m queues

It's horrible

They have got to do something about healers in SS

To make them actually want to play the game

[steel scarab]

Or they need to have healer-less games

Queues would be instantaneous

[outer sky]

They won't do that. The whole point of solo shuffle was so people could play rated 3v3 without the need of LFG

[steel scarab]

I get that, but making people wait 30 minutes per game us going to kill the game mode.

[outer sky]

That's why they should include healer only rewards

[jolly sierra]

tbh aspiring to less has saved a lot of sanity

[outer sky]

If they announced a healer only mount, the next day you'd have to wait to queue as a healer

[jolly sierra]

if rewards are till 2400 then the max goal would be just 2400

im sure can reach 2k4 but need time to hone up

in shadowlands for example i was only able to reach 2050 w partners max

now i can reach 2k1+

[outer sky]

Was there solo shuffle in SL?

[jolly sierra]

maybe in some time later can do that, but im slower w progress

[jolly sierra]

nope, sadly

[outer sky]

SS and real 3s are a totally different ball game because of how the dampening mechanic works

I'm 2700 in SS but I capped out in real 3s at 2300

[jolly sierra]

i played 2s

had little options w partners

solo shuffle was a refresh for me

cuz i was able to play without looking for healers

[outer sky]

I actually have the minority opinion that dampening should be buffed in real 3s. Literally half the games I play in 3s come down to mana because as long as one healer has mana they can always top their team until the game has been going on for like 10 minutes

[jolly sierra]

dampening should be buffed in SS too

[outer sky]

Ehhh idk about that

[jolly sierra]

in a moment i recall it was high

[wide eagle]

why? that completely changes how healers work :d

[jolly sierra]

for early system

[wide eagle]

starting at 40% is already pretty nuts imo

[outer sky]

When I say buffed I mean I think there should be more of it

In 3v3

[jolly sierra]

dampening balances arena, imagine why u cant kill the healer in outdoor

[outer sky]

I'd like it to ramp up faster or start at 20% instead of 10%

[jolly sierra]

tbh that is 1 reason i dislike healers in bgs

[wide eagle]

so should just lower healing by 10% in all pvp content

and leave dampening where its at

[outer sky]

"Here's my entire teams offensive CDs" oh the healer got a global to press serenity okay everyone's 100% again

[jolly sierra]

cuz they can do their shit, drink and keep going

[jolly sierra]

ultimate penitence

nah dampening is nice but ye, needs to be raised

[outer sky]

Like generally I think a healer going OOM before someone dies in arena should be INCREDIBLY rare

[jolly sierra]

in shuffle that happened to me this week

guy went oom so died

[outer sky]

Yeah it happens

In my games it happens all the damn time

[jolly sierra]

well, gotta go exercise, my blood pressure dropped by watching a sudden light change and accidentally smashed my trash can

i think need to move

[outer sky]

"We played perfectly but the druid meld/stealthed for 2 seconds to drink so we lose"

Like

Fuck that lol

[jolly sierra]

xd

ill test the advice i was given here some months ago

try with both panda and NE and compare performance

but tbh if NE difference is huge ill be sad

cuz i rlly hate playing meta races

[outer sky]

You're trolling if you're not a nelf rogue

[jolly sierra]

i was playing pandaren all the fucking time dude

[outer sky]

It's probably the most impactful racial/class interaction in the game

[jolly sierra]

for liking

[outer sky]

I swear nelf would have been the 80 rating you needed for elite

[jolly sierra]

that is very depressing, hope it gets nerfed

[jolly sierra]

me too

im 100% sure

but i play for liking, not for just souless winning

but anyways, gotta go w 2 rogues

[outer sky]

Also nelf gets a 5% movement speed increase while stealthed

[jolly sierra]

i know

i think NE will even be more relevant now w shadow dance removal for assa

and i really hate it

[outer sky]

Nah it'll be the same or less relevant

[jolly sierra]

are u sure?

[outer sky]

Because with the removal of dance comes 2 vanishes and 6 second subterfuge

[jolly sierra]

and what about shadowmeld?

[outer sky]

I think with 2 vanishes it'll be a bit less mandatory to have another on demand stealth button

But getting stealth is so huge for rogues that we could have 5 vanishes and nelf would still probably be preferred

[jolly sierra]

ye

fuck NEs

well gotta exercise then

cya

[outer sky]

I was a dwarf for a while

Then went orc

Finally went nelf a couple months ago

Will never go back

Have you tried it?

[empty fable]

so, from the most recent Blizz announcement they put the TWW beginning schedule, and it says:

8/20: PvP Pre-Season begins with weekly resets
what exactly is "PvP Pre-Season"?

[outer sky]

The worst part of the "season"

Where you can't queue rated anything

Just quick matches like skirms and random BGs

[empty fable]

ugh, that's gonna include blitz, isn't it?

can you buy new season honor gear in that time?

[outer sky]

No

You literally can't do anything meaningful at all whatsoever

[empty fable]

wow, so the only change between it and after s4 ends tomorrow is you can no longer queue rated?

[outer sky]

Yes. So tomorrow at reset seasonal achievements like duelist, elite, gladiator, etc will be locked

But if you've never been 2200 in 2s for example you can still queue rated 2s and get 2200 for that achievement

In pre season you can't even do that

[empty fable]

was hoping to use that time to gear up some of my new chars from timerunning, but since can't buy the pvp trinkets for them that'd suck

[outer sky]

Play a different game for a week is my advice

[empty fable]

sheesh, it's 3 whole weeks before s1 starts

8/20 to 9/10

[steel scarab]

@outer sky I got elite with human lol

It only cost me my sanity

[jolly sierra]

just returned from exercise

ye, in remix i think

and i understand the mechanics about meld-stealth, so i have some kind of base tho

[steel scarab]

@outer sky if I hit 2420 but dropped to 2380, does that matter for any end of season achievement? Should I grind back to 2400 or does it not matter at all

[jolly sierra]

if i recall, it doesnt

unless u aspire to legend

[wintry dew]

As panda said, it only matters if you want to go for legend, if not, any rewards you were to get, you did the moment you reached 2400

[jolly sierra]

yo royal, gold farming is going well, sadly DF market is dead

so im fully dedicating to orbs now

[wintry dew]

Yeah, besides the HUGE guys with goldcaps and such, theres really not much to prepare for next expansion

besides ofc having the right professions / bank + bags clean

[jolly sierra]

yep, ppl is already looking forward for TWW

i think i can get the 800k goal to buy the discounted XP, but lets see if i can get even more

[steel scarab]

I would love to hit legend but 30 minute queue x 100 games = 50 hours just sitting in queue. Fuck that.

[jolly sierra]

yep, mind sanity is just beautiful

so better dont waste that

[wintry dew]

That was deep. Thats something i learned to lean on with WoW

If something would disturb my peaceful sanity, i would either be done with it really fast or not do it at all

[jolly sierra]

agree

[spring bough]

How easy DH is in comparison to my outlaw this season. Idt I ever hit duelist on the outlaw but I did with sin. Hit 70 yesterday. Did 11 solo ques. 41-22 and rival 2 already. In just one day 😂

[jolly sierra]

bruh wellinth

[spring bough]

Now if that achievement awarded a glad mount I’d sit for 100 hours lol

[spring bough]

I found out DH the most mindless class. No need to line up Cc. Just smash lol

[jolly sierra]

ye

for that

kek

[spring bough]

Oh these guys are stun DRd? Dont care. Smash chaos nova. Even 0.2 seconds can cop a kill

Also best perk of DH? I can rock my rogue tier 3 with warglaives. Ultimate mog 😂

[wintry dew]

you ain't wrong

[pale storm]

Still sad they haven’t added gloves to rogues moggable appearances

[jolly sierra]

huh? gloves?

[wintry dew]

Wdym, different gloves?

or glaives?

[spring bough]

rogues always had it they did the opposite and they removed it from out moggable apperances cause DH are special or something

warglaives always gonna be swords in my eyes lol

[wintry dew]

Why am i not understanding a single thing you guys are saying

[spring bough]

pretty sure Blakezilla meant to say glaives**

[wintry dew]

OH

LOL

[spring bough]

like they were always swords then blizz went oh HAHA they are warglaives fk u rogues

[wintry dew]

Warglaives should have been treated as swords

Aka warriors, rogues, etc could tmog them

especially those two

[pale storm]

glaives, sorry phone auto correct

[wintry dew]

Wglaives are iconic to both rogues and warriors, yet a random ass class that appears after 15 or 16 years, decides that no, warglaives are now DH only, YOINK

[stoic spruce]

I have returned

[wintry dew]

You return a lot

[potent pivot]

zerging healer has become a good strat vs a lot of shit lately

[jolly sierra]

ye

ppl is extremely toxic in this end of season

in my case i feel souless rn

[potent pivot]

yeah i thought about doing some arena to knock the rust off before tww and i just cba lol

i'll knock the rust off when season starts

[jolly sierra]

im retiring for this moment i think

its way too much stress for some numbers

than i will reach at future

u guys have a prepatch build already done?

sorry starlink, i wont stress for just 2k4

[wintry dew]

season starts
Yeah i don't think i need this in my life

[jolly sierra]

lets close our eyes for a moment till xp starts

[potent pivot]

[wintry dew]

been doing that for a while, playing FF14

[jolly sierra]

i think ill just farm orbs

[potent pivot]

i'm working on a new faq but it won't be up until launch i think

and i'm sure a lot of it will change as people test and tuning changes like usual

[jolly sierra]

as always

i see

[wintry dew]

I dont envy that work

[potent pivot]

not much is changing for prepatch really no?

[wintry dew]

there is

Especially Sdance

[potent pivot]

just the talent tree changes

[wintry dew]

Oh yeah only talent changes + warband

[jolly sierra]

oof

warband will be a huge thing

[wintry dew]

Hyped for it actually

finally your in game time will be more respected

[potent pivot]

i don't think losing dance is going to change our pathing much

[wintry dew]

It wont, for the 2x vanish

[potent pivot]

losing acro/maybe dropping recup will give us a couple points to switch though

[wintry dew]

i believe 2x vanish is a no brainer

Recup does not work

so its 1 free point

[potent pivot]

ik

[heady swift]

So... Should I post my one shot vids in here from tww? 😅

[wintry dew]

Yes.

[heady swift]

Like last expansion I shared them on stream (snupy)

[stoic spruce]

I can't WAIT for the downfall of Crackshot

[wintry dew]

Tricks, i was fast enough

[heady swift]

Ok...

[potent pivot]

lol

[heady swift]

I'll leave

Bye..

[potent pivot]

why

[wintry dew]

NO COME BACK

[heady swift]

Hahaha

[stoic spruce]

Later nerd

[wintry dew]

popo

[stoic spruce]

💅

[wintry dew]

respect my elders

[jolly sierra]

XD

later

[heady swift]

Actually I've got some clips from early beta. Not sure how much has changed. Had some free time for some one shot tricks. Ngl last expansion was more fun, one shot wise

[wintry dew]

I was actually gonna ask: Do you usually pvp above 1800?

[heady swift]

Only thing Ive been doing for years is figuring out lame one shots for the rbg community (got quite from streamer mates who like to farm RBGs 24/7)

[wintry dew]

I can feel Swifty sweating rn

[neat dove]

bro jsut had my first arena, shuffle, on my dudu alt as healer, set up keybinds and bars beforehand, no addons

join

bars COMPLETELY wiped

ez 0/6

[heady swift]

Hmmm your bars got pre-patched?

Baduum psst

[neat dove]

i should have logged out after setting them up i guess

[heady swift]

Well.. Figuring out one shots is just fun tbh. Then I share them or show them on a stream.. And that's it. 😂

[potent pivot]

i've never seen this happen

i've seen the error pop up that won't let you press any spells, forcing you to reload. that's still an issue which is wild

[wintry dew]

Then pikaboo sees them and goes like "This is MY idea now!" jkjk Pikaboo is a legend

[jolly sierra]

it seems i'm retiring to animal crossing now LOLOLOLOLOL

[neat dove]

ok I slightly exaggerated, upon turning 70 I had completely wiped them, then reassigned them to make more sense for pvp

but then in the arena they were wiped again

and of course i got flamed lol

[potent pivot]

that's wild

[neat dove]

ok set them up again, time to log out

[jolly sierra]

if u wanna save setup

for next time

u can just /reload

[neat dove]

also resto has too many cds

nah i dont trust that anymore

only reload if i get a LUA error

[jolly sierra]

:l

[potent pivot]

reload is essentially the same as logging out->in

[jolly sierra]

i had a lot of issues w lua and shit till i switched to desktop by buying new gear

now i dont have anymore

[neat dove]

i quit the game

[jolly sierra]

if ur computer is way too old u can consider upgrading it

[potent pivot]

it sounds a lot more like you didn't save properly when exiting the editor or the save itself fucked up

[neat dove]

i assembled it this february, its future proof for the nextd ecade 😄

though my graphics card seems to have some conflict with WoW/Discord

[jolly sierra]

weird then

[neat dove]

I wasnt even in editor, I just put spells on bars

my UI is ass rn

[heady swift]

Actually (I won't say names), some people use them yea for their vids. But that's the whole idea. Sharing the one shots for fun and content. Nothing more like with WAs people will never fall for these simple tricks after a while

[neat dove]

need to find a better button for my dispell

Shift+E eeeh

[wintry dew]

So you COOK transmogs and you COOK oneshots. Legit providing the world the best things

[heady swift]

Hmmm maybe I should start a YT channel (if only I had more time haha)

[neat dove]

ok going into my 2nd shuffle, fingers crossed

[heady swift]

Gl gl

[neat dove]

I have no idea what im doing lmao

maybe resto dudu wasnt the best choice for first time healing in arena

well I healed as much as the other healer but cant stay alive

actually significantly outhealed other healer

but im not using my important spells like vortex, roots or cyclone

i cycloned and got two wins im a god 😎

[potent pivot]

[neat dove]

now to figure out how when im playing rogue enemy restos cast 200 cyclones and keep their team alive simultanously

[obtuse venture]

Hi, can anybody tell me if i can use the Glorious medal of honor in prepatch?

https://www.wowhead.com/item=211126/glorious-medal-of-honor

[potent pivot]

there's no telling

[jolly sierra]

u cant

those always turns grey

[spring bough]

every solo shuffle lobby ive played as DH yesterday and today... straight to the healer LOL

most of them are mellllltttttiiiiinnnnnggggggg its amazing to see lol

[surreal barn]

If you can cleave them in it’s been better than cc’ing them

Can’t say that has been fun gameplay though

[neat dove]

ye when we're quadruple melee dps I always suggest healer, easier to triple cleave then

[neat dove]

tfw you get mind controlled and your mage puts a ring of frost on you

[waxen meteor]

Wow quite a bit inflation

Log on my DH to have some season last game, 2500 mmr already

[idle root]

do we lose all our honor/conq next reset or do they only reset when tww launches?

[potent pivot]

pretty sure at launch

[spring bough]

Has to be the sickest thing I have ever seen

Physically sick lmao. This man has the top 6 spots LOL

Oh and he has rank 9 too 😂

Oh and 13 through 21

[potent pivot]

i will never understand the point in this

[spring bough]

Probably all the same build and gear too

[potent pivot]

"no one else can have the title but me! muahahaha!"

[spring bough]

Bro he has all the same gear. Same spec. Same mog

14 shamans 😂

[potent pivot]

wait didn't they change how alts affect r1 spots

so he's not keeping anyone from r1 either way

[spring bough]

guys gonna need a new career

[potent pivot]

i'm surprised he doesn't push r1 on other classes

i mean fuck lol

[wintry dew]

Imagine being rank 17 but actually being r2

[sick wasp]

bro farms top 6

coz why not

[sick wasp]

probably abusing a team set up to make a spec work

maybe some boosting involved

also springle some no-lifing

🤝

[jolly sierra]

who was the sham getting 3k rating by wintrading?

[potent pivot]

...what

abusing a team set up to make a spec work? wot

[sick wasp]

u boys living in an alternate universe or something

welcome to rbg-ing

might be the case might not

[potent pivot]

he has 6 shamans holding top 6 of shuffle homie

and like 9 other shamans below that

[sick wasp]

he also has another 6-7 on lower ranks

ye

[potent pivot]

i don't think he's abusing anything

he just plays tf out of shaman

[sick wasp]

maybe he is but thats pretty unnatural

[potent pivot]

idk a lot of r1s have a shit load of chars

some even have multiple on NA and EU

[sick wasp]

yeah but even if u lets say take an echo boy,like oscar

the man farms r1's

highly doubt he has like

15 rank 1s

its jsut too much

how do u even achieve it by just playing ''tf'' out of something

idk man

[potent pivot]

because afaik he completely dropped playing 3s

and spammed all those shamans in ss

[sick wasp]

ill still remain skeptical

[potent pivot]

https://check-pvp.fr/us/Stormrage/Bïgdäm

[sick wasp]

but thats just my opinion nothing more

[potent pivot]

yeah i'm just not a fan of saying someone is abusing anything without proof

doesn't really set a good tone

like if someone posts proof of win traders, or anything else like that i'm all for it

but yeah

[sick wasp]

yeah im always taking accountability of what im saying

im not the kind of guy thats gonna sht talk ppl

just to sht talk

[thick dagger]

I’m having issues getting 2.1 as sub soon as someone messes up my stun drs I just can’t do anything I was told I should only run cheese build untill 2.4 but I really don’t know how to play cheese with flag would anyone mind explaining it to me pls so I can hit my goal I would appreciate it alot

In solo shuffle ^

[stoic spruce]

okay FUCKERS

heres whats going to happen

im going to push to at least 2100 as outlaw

[potent pivot]

i mean season's over now, meta is going to change next season

[stoic spruce]

before prepatch drops

[potent pivot]

how long does eu even have left in season

na season is closed

[stoic spruce]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

[potent pivot]

lol

season ended 20 minutes ago

[stoic spruce]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[potent pivot]

pvp season always ends the night before patch day

for future reference

[stoic spruce]

I thought it ended when it dropsssssssssss

bro

I even pulled up Blow Me Away by Breaking Benjamin

I was SO hyped

[potent pivot]

lmaoooo

well now you know

[stoic spruce]

ONLY THE STRONGEST WILL SURVIVE

[potent pivot]

i kinda can't wait for next season

i'm actually a lil hype

[stoic spruce]

always some BS since DF prepatch

[stoic spruce]

16GB of RAM is not enough ig

[potent pivot]

do you have a lot of other stuff open

[stoic spruce]

I do not

discord

[potent pivot]

hmm idk

[quasi frigate]

have you done a mem test?? a PC will run fine even with faulty ram and have an odd crash here or there, I had the same issue ages ago, turns out ram was bad but PC was still running fine

[stoic spruce]

how do that?

[potent pivot]

yeh but does there season not end the night before reset

their reset is Wed instead of Tues isn't it

ye usually everything happens 1 day behind na

[grave basin]

You could always gain rating after season ends iirc

You can even earn the achievement

You can do it !!

[outer sky]

wtf

season's over?

I thought it would last until reset

[potent pivot]

nop, it's always the night before

[outer sky]

Well fuck me I didn't get my 2.7

[potent pivot]

next season it'll prolly be easier to hit higher goals

more people playing, more inflation, more possible team mates to find and grind with

apparently all currency will be acc wide as well

[outer sky]

including gold?

[potent pivot]

yes

[outer sky]

thats good

[potent pivot]

idk for sure if honor and conq are included

but all rep, transmog, and gold will be acc wide

i hear even some gear that drops will be "Warband Bound" so you can send it to alts

i think the war band change actually drops today with prepatch as well

[outer sky]

2v3 lets go

[potent pivot]

[grave basin]

Oh shit

Season ended ?

Can you queue for fun or are we stuck with skirms and BGs for a month ?

[potent pivot]

pretty positive you can q for fun

[tidal python]

will rated pvp be closed with pre-patch?

[potent pivot]

rating won't change

but should still be able to q

[tidal python]

got it, thanks mate

[stoic spruce]

wouldve went hard were it stil legion

[outer sky]

So pre-season starts 08/20 and season 1 starts 09/10 so does that mean no rated arena between those dates?

[stoic spruce]

correct

I think you can honor farm

[potent pivot]

ye you can always farm honor

[stoic spruce]

I mean the currency

[potent pivot]

ye

any new AH pvp gear is prolly gonna be expensive so

might wanna cap your honor before season starts

[stoic spruce]

RAHHHHHHHHHHH

[outer sky]

slightly off topic but can anyone recommend me some fun online PC games to play while rated pvp is down? No FPS please they give me motion sickness

[stoic spruce]

What do you like?

smut in warcraft confirmed

[potent pivot]

man, there's so much new stuff coming out right now.
does it need to be pvp specific? or do you like pve in other games

[outer sky]

prefer pvp

[potent pivot]

BDO has somewhat decent pvp, but getting into that game can be a little bit of a shell shock if you've only really played wow

there's not a lot of pvp games that aren't fps, there's league, BDO, hmm..

Naraka Bladepoint

[stoic spruce]

yeah I cant think of anymore tbh

[outer sky]

I just need something to keep me busy for a few weeks

[potent pivot]

there's more they're just... pretty bad usually lol

i think guild wars 2 has a pretty active pvp scene

it's more free roam/battleground style

BDO has 3v3 and other brackets

and i'm pretty sure it's solo queue

lot of people have been playing Dark and Darker

[outer sky]

I used to play GW 2. Hell I played the original GW

But I had to stop

I was way too good at it

Wasn't fair to the rest of the player base

so I went into retirement

better to quit while I was ahead too

[lavish idol]

any US with season over, can you confirm if can still queue solo shuffle to grind out mount?

[stoic spruce]

Mount yes

I'm pretty sure at least

[lavish idol]

Does your rating still move up and down, but not counted for titles etc I guess

[stoic spruce]

It still goes up and down yes

[lavish idol]

cool, so now's the time to practice with pre-patch changes and hopefully grind out some saddles

[grave basin]

Who's ready to do tank level damage

[wintry dew]

Tanks

[neat dove]

actually i think at one point he had the top 23 spots

[lavish idol]

I have to be honest, I didn't really read into the changes. How's it looking for next week? Are we in for some nice changes or generally not

[grave basin]

I have some bad news

[neat dove]

no idea about performance but that secret tech build for sub sounds fun

[grave basin]

Outlaw probably went backwards

Actually not probably, definitely

[outer sky]

Theres no way all 3 rogue specs will be trash when the season starts

That's very rare for a class with 3 dps specs to be bad across the board

[wintry dew]

Y'all dooming too much. It's a waiting game until real tuning

Just chill and learn the new trees

[outer sky]

I am looking forward to 2 vanishes and 6s subterfuge

[wintry dew]

2 vanish across the board

Will be awesome

[outer sky]

Yeah it will give us a lot more survivability

Being able to vanish out twice

Although I think they're nerfing stealth protection from vanish by 50%

But I don't think that will matter much

1.5s is plenty of time to vanish>sprint or step our healer

I can see it being kind of a feelsbad in rbgs though

Yo anyone wanna make some bets

500k gold starting pool

That i get gladiator in TWW s1

Never got it before

I'm determined this season though

[lavish idol]

I'm more concerned about the dmg output, this season especially I've had a lot of grief about not doing enough dmg. I managed to get about 1950, and usually I was bottom or 3rd, but I would win games by creating the right moment. But the games I lost it was always due to not putting out enough dmg, usually meleefuck match ups

[outer sky]

Are you undergeared? Assa damage was pretty nuts this season

[lavish idol]

Should have said, I played outlaw mostly

[outer sky]

Oh yeah that's why lol

Outlaw doesn't have any pressure unless it's constantly cleaning and even then it's damage is lackluster

But it's pretty rare outlaw is good in pvp

Blizzard thinks of it as a pve spec

[lavish idol]

I tried sub a bit and felt even worse. Outlaw I just have more experience with and always been a bit scared of assass haha

So getting to 1950 isn't too bad then I guess

Maybe it's time to don the daggers once more

[outer sky]

Sub does remarkably low overall damage. The strength of subs dps profile is that the damage it does do is in short, high bursts which makes it still produce a lot of pressure despite not doing much on the meters. It's also able to cross cc the entire team on its own for its goes. Add in duel and 2m bomb CD and it's a worthy spec

[lavish idol]

Yeah and I think I didn't climb high enough to see it work nicely, I got stuck around 1400 and the toxicity of low dmg and sheer amount of melee combos put me off, I tried outlaw and got to 1700 fairly easy then climbed over time higher

[proud folio]

bone spike rework looks crazy good https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=455352/serrated-bone-spikes

but seems impossible(?) to take on the new tree

the initial damage is actually a higher % of attack power than Kingsbane lmao, surely that will get nerfed

[grave basin]

Dooming isn't really the right word

More like.. let down

I agree though it's hard to tell anything when tuning is so out of whack

Tfw target dummy fatebound cap stone is 0.5% of our dam

[proud folio]

actually the initial damage of KB is nerfed in PVP so it's waaay higher

[grave basin]

kB got baseline nerfed in tww

It doesn't stack as high

[surreal barn]

I doubt there will be too much balancing around these minuscule health pools

We get so beefy after it goes live

[grave basin]

Yea ofc, blizzard never balances pre patch

I remember DF pre patch

DH was using that throw glaive legendary

[grave basin]

Balancing is horrendous even on beta

Anyone on beta wanna do some skirms/duels/test shit out while Na is on maint

[surreal barn]

I would with you but I schedule most of my meetings for Tuesdays 😂

[grave basin]

Smart choice

man even beta is under maint

new build early today hopefully

[waxen meteor]

alright, is there a good guide somewhere about all changes we gonna see today after patch

[outer sky]

LOL I just tried to log into beta and opened discord to ask if it was also under maitainence and I see this

[grave basin]

spec sub and hope for the best

i mean other than nightstalker gone there's no difference

subterfuge is 6 seconds

vanish is always 2 charges as sub anyway

[grave basin]

if beta is up early lets do some testing

[outer sky]

I'm down. It probably will be

[grave basin]

apparantly feral pumps after the removed all the negative pvp modifiers

[grave basin]

real qn is, who we watching on twitch

[outer sky]

When a sub rogue opens up on you full blast pikaboo style with duel, what is the appropriate CD to press? You can't vanish in duel. If you trinket>evaison you get cheap shot and restunned anyway, and if you trinket>CC them theyll just trinket it and restun you

And I dont think cloak does anything

[grave basin]

probs blind

[outer sky]

trinket>cheap

[grave basin]

if you get dueled probs just insta trinket first global

idk

like that's 100% youre dead if you hold kinda situation

you can vanish btw, he can just see you

you can vanish cheap

[outer sky]

yeah so it does nothing

[grave basin]

it forces his trinket

[outer sky]

so he has no trinket for the coming 2v3?

[grave basin]

either he holds his trinket and trades his duel for for your trinket

or he all ins i guess

then next go it's a smokebomb 100-0

lol

[outer sky]

he needs blades to 100-0

[grave basin]

he can def reset blades before your next trinket

without a doubt

[outer sky]

yeah with vanish

[grave basin]

it has inbuilt cde

cdr

[outer sky]

but he can also reset duel before your trinket

[radiant glen]

if you cloak the follow up hits for sectech they do no dmg

but imo the correct play is trinket CC
sub right now doesn't have the dmg to 100-0 you if he's wasting time and globals to also trinket ur cc and re cc u, duel doesn't last long enough

at this point you have dmg cds and he has no trinket, there's ur wincon

[outer sky]

you gotta kill him in the next 90 seconds though cuz he can reset blades and duel with vanish

[grave basin]

or his teammate

or his healer

[radiant glen]

but he can't get duel back and ur team can peel

[outer sky]

duel resets with vanish

[radiant glen]

its a 3minute cd

[grave basin]

the shadowdust is heavily nerfed in pvp

[outer sky]

2m

[waxen meteor]

I normally go with gauge

[grave basin]

it's like half potent

blades 100% he can reset it, but duel i dont think so

[grave basin]

shadow dust is like 15 seconds in pvp

[radiant glen]

sorry mistype

[outer sky]

yeah

[radiant glen]

its 2mins yes but blades is

usually shorter