pvp

[grave basin]

min maxing for a 2.9k player isnt the same as someone asking and coming from pve

for the latter, keep it simple

[finite onyx]

im not coming from pve though

[summer breach]

10-12% is perfect in my eyes

[surreal barn]

@summer breach link the char you believe has the most optimized gearout

I wanna see

Seems you’re set up different than me if you’re running that haste

[grave basin]

youre going from 1energy a sec to 1.1 energy a sec though

and maybe 1 extra tick

[surreal barn]

August 21st TWW available on Xbox you just watch

I bet you 10 doll hairs

[grave basin]

DHs are jumping with joy with their controllers

[summer breach]

Yo sorry mobile died..

well its about the energy regen from bleed ticks mainly

I run 11% without badge and 7% with badge

[summer breach]

in the end it really doesnt matter to much, so its basically personal preference if you wanna check my main its currently top in shuffle ladder but all my alts have close to same stats with far less effort gearing

[surreal barn]

Okay I’ll check it

[summer breach]

this season u have far more options with the amount of versa u baseline have

[surreal barn]

Cheat death no on use trinket gemming crit

Badass lol

Interesting 😂

[summer breach]

only cause of the mastery daggers. my other chars have mastery gems xD

[surreal barn]

I bet you are getting good restealths

Are your matches dampfests at this high of rating?

[summer breach]

a lot yes but also the zergfests u have at any rating

restealth rarely happen since u get trained a lot

I think removal of SHD will hurt us insane

[surreal barn]

Definitely

[summer breach]

2nd vanish is not even close. so playstyle might shift a bit to try getting res more often. But impossible to predict it without the numbers from TWW

[surreal barn]

I swapped to assa these two seasons cause it reminded me of old sub

[summer breach]

I hate current sub, returned mid season 3 of DF after a longer break

[surreal barn]

Yup. I like the one minute big damage to play around

[potent pivot]

well it depends on the spec

taking a little haste is fine depending on the spec

[finite onyx]

what would make it better or worse?

[potent pivot]

well sub for example hardly gets anything out of haste

same for outlaw really

the only benefit for them being energy regen (haste is notoriously dogshit for actual energy regen scaling) and faster autos, which isn't worth taking haste for compared to the other stats

assa though also gets DoT damage from haste

even though it may not benefit as much as it does from mastery atm, having like at least 1 piece with a lot of haste on it is good

because like you said you're deep into the mastery DR anyway, so you get a bit more benefit from having a bit of haste thrown in there

there's no 100% answer to this question since there's no sims for pvp, just a bunch of people hitting pvp dummies which sometimes doesn't even net you the same damage as you would do to a player so it's all feelcraft

[finite onyx]

ah i was asking for assa specifically so i thought you meant depending on some talents

[potent pivot]

nah i personally don't think the build matters

[finite onyx]

ok

thanks man

[summer breach]

its a matter of preference in the end. the Value of crit is also limited due to 50% less effectiveness dmg wise

last season people played with the 10% crit only but now u have more choices with the mastery DRing so hard

[potent pivot]

yeah they kinda fucked crit with that change

honestly the worst decision they've made for pvp

the raised health pools was enough

[summer breach]

but the Sealfate procs help a lot so I can recommend 20% crit or higher

but on paper the difference might be there, when u play it doesnt matter

[finite onyx]

yeah running crit mastery pieces already thats why i was wondering if some haste wouldnt be good

[summer breach]

I like some haste and I play more versa in shuffle than 3s since u cant trust random healers xD

[finite onyx]

😄

[summer breach]

with the 535 ring and the bracers u have some haste like 5%

[potent pivot]

the real issue is people hear stack vers/mastery so that's all they do

[finite onyx]

like in shadowlands noone was running crit on outlaw until some people started and then everyone copied

[summer breach]

yeah but versa really loses so much value above ~35% in instanced pvp

and mastery at 40% dr is also not the key

[finite onyx]

how do you get the ring btw?

[summer breach]

a good mix with massive focus on mastery though is the best

[potent pivot]

which ring

[summer breach]

u can buy it after u killed bosses in lft

lfr

the haste/mastery u can upgrade to 535

[finite onyx]

upgrade with crests?

[potent pivot]

the seal of filial dutY?

[summer breach]

yep

[finite onyx]

yes

[summer breach]

yep I did some m+ on main

but on my alts I just upgraded it from the 1crest/win lol

the ring is really good but u can also just use a crafted one instead

[finite onyx]

you wouldnt craft mastery/haste ring though, right?

btw the emerald conduit, is that not good? i saw lots of people with it last season, now everyone playing the mastery above 90%?

[summer breach]

I would craft haste mastery

most others wouldnt

I think a good range of stats u wanna have 20-30% crit 0-12% haste 85+ mastery 33+ vers

[finite onyx]

thank you 🙂

[acoustic junco]

mastery for DR is based on mastery points. it's 180 mastery rating per point. IE, 5400 mastery = start to DR

the DR is not as drastic as people make it sound

[chrome schooner]

Mastery DRs around 75 or 80 % for Assa, since you already have some baseline and the rest is indeed counted in mastery points and not %

[viscid bough]

Quick question, but which spec would you consider to be the most straight forward, in pvp sure, but also in PvE? If you could include hero talent, that would be a neat extra, but I can understand being complex to consider them to answer.
Mostly asking here over any other channels as I plan on playing pvp till TWW

[stoic spruce]

I can't believe I actually accidentally blocked panda

[wintry dew]

yo popo

[stoic spruce]

Omg haiii ^-^

[potent pivot]

well.. this is a very subjective question. the hero talents mostly look pretty passive overall so i don't think they're going to change gameplay very much. in my opinion assa is the most intuitive/easy to understand and learn spec.
outlaw can be pretty easy at a lower level of play, but it's fast paced and can get much more intricate at higher levels of play.
sub is pretty easy in pve imo, but can be a lot more tricky in pvp.

[viscid bough]

Thanks I'll give Assassination a shot in PvE then

[potent pivot]

just a side note: assa is a lot harder in m+ than raid

sub/outlaw are usually much easier to get into for m+ specifically

[wintry dew]

Approaches sneakily

@potent pivot

https://tenor.com/view/fist-bump-anime-secret-kirito-eugeo-gif-27160656

[jolly sierra]

what why

[wintry dew]

You might be wondering: Why?
Truth be told, i don't know, felt like it

Panda, he hates SUB and it seems he also hates assa rogues now

Damn outlaws

[jolly sierra]

god dammit his hatred will be his undoing

[wintry dew]

Imagine blocking the cutest panda in the channel

Smh my head

[jolly sierra]

bruh

[wintry dew]

dw i'll keep bringing love to this channel

so i can purge his hatred

[jolly sierra]

someone must do that now hyper is gone

[wintry dew]

Panda looking im feeling super cute

the face of cuteness overload

[jolly sierra]

u look fancy

now u need to build into fok, dance a lot w feint and u are done

[wintry dew]

I'm also using the trading post daggers with flowers

extremely cute tmog

[jolly sierra]

would look nice af with some druidic illusion

[wintry dew]

like s3 one

which i dont hve

[stoic spruce]

Because discord spazzed out and my fingie was on the 3 dots and I accidentally pressed block

And I'm on mobile

[wintry dew]

You just don't like us anymore

[knotty viper]

I’m just returning to the game after like 13 years…is Sub Rogue still best for PvP?

[jolly sierra]

booo how cruel

[stoic spruce]

That's what I'm saying!

How could discord do that to me

[potent pivot]

not really, but i wouldn't get too caught up on whats best, play what you enjoy

you can reach your goals with any of the rogue specs atm

[gleaming pawn]

Pffft that’s illegal, doom and hatred must infest all channels

[stoic spruce]

Right?

Damn sub players

[wintry dew]

I'm the love and happiness guardian, I'll protect the channels from all the hatred.
(Played remix for too long, I'm used to cleansing hatred)

[gleaming pawn]

With the shitshow that Deathstalker is, I’m ashamed to admit I actually considered Sub for TWW because I’ll be playing a lot of Blitz

[stoic spruce]

Aw man does that mean I'm going to have to be mean to you too?

[jolly sierra]

wait what

[stoic spruce]

What

Bros headed to the blue team

[jolly sierra]

betrayal

[stoic spruce]

I know

Bro can't even pick a real rogue spec

Dude had 2/3 odds and still lost

[gleaming pawn]

I only said considered! I hate Sub so I’m sure I’ll just end up playing Sin and complaining about it being bad instead

[halcyon timber]

-_- da haleeee

[stoic spruce]

Literally me but with outlaw

[outer sky]

how much mastery do we want as assass?

I have 93%

[gleaming pawn]

All of the mastery

[worthy crag]

sub is the only true rog spec

[stoic spruce]

get those words off my screen

[steel scarab]

93 is definitely enough to kill people

[jolly sierra]

si

[past trout]

I love Sub, but atm it's a bloated design-mess with no real identity

[summer breach]

I wish assa would be as op in tww as right now

[halcyon timber]

We aren’t shadow priests with a knife and there are different playstyles that mimic the past instead of ultra gimmicks and a nudge in the opposite direction of “all dance and nothing else” is good. We are more than shadow dance and more lessons of the past must be incorporated not gimmicks. Plenty of identity. Give credit to Bombowy”s art where you snagged that banner from too , that dude works hard on his machinima.

[past trout]

https://tenor.com/view/night-elf-world-of-warcraft-gif-25669753

[wintry dew]

I might be having deja Vu but I swear I remember you or another person commenting on that and saying that exact thing on that gif/banner

[past trout]

Royal, give credit to the AI tool name for your profile pic. Now!

Credit where?

Every gif used needs to have an APA style bibliography attached

in-text citations too, or plagiarism

[sick wasp]

next step is to tax giphy

[wintry dew]

Copilot, from Microsoft

[past trout]

Here it is in APA:

Microsoft Copilot: Your everyday AI companion. (n.d.). Microsoft Copilot: Your Everyday AI Companion. https://copilot.microsoft.com/

[wintry dew]

I have so much cool stuff saved

For legal reasons these can be PvP profile pictures for the nerds

[surreal barn]

Yeah the AI pics are getting cool

[lone goblet]

Is Copilot different from the bing image creator?

[wintry dew]

I have no idea, I'm not smart enough to know that kind of information

[lone goblet]

I've been using Bing to make art for my D&D game for a few months now. It's so neat to be able to turn things from descriptions into a picture in a few seconds.

Both are microsoft, so guess it's a similar AI

[wintry dew]

I bet they are using the same / similar systems then yes

[wintry dew]

Important question:

• funniest moment in one of your DnD campaigns every?

[lone goblet]

gosh, I've been playing so long I'm sure I've forgotten the actual funniest moments many times over. More recently I found it pretty funny that of all the people the Paladin was the one who ended up taking the evil soul devouring sword because it was too powerful not to use.

So now we just have a Paladin happily fighting with a sword that consumes the soul of anyone it kills, and is always whispering in her ear to kill more people.

[wintry dew]

... Arthas.

God damn it arthas

[lone goblet]

I don't think she even plays WoW, so not sure she knows about Arthas lol

but maybe

[wintry dew]

Bro imagine if she comes up with arthas/lk lore

On her own

[sick wasp]

exceptional stuff

[sick wasp]

love this

[wintry dew]

AI is something indeed

[surreal barn]

Best part is it gave me 4 different angles of the same dude 😂

lucky prompt

[wintry dew]

Exactly

[sick wasp]

my pf is AI generated from ym alliance rogue

[wintry dew]

Recently I tried to create my wow character with multiple angles just with text to image

[sick wasp]

looks almost identical

[sick wasp]

this looks like japanese stuff

anime or something

[wintry dew]

It's so hard to make my character in wow by just using words 😦

[surreal barn]

Bottom right coolest I think

[wintry dew]

One of the biggest AI problems is hands and stuff breaking like a random dagger in the air

Let me see one more image I've done

says 1, uploads 6

https://tenor.com/view/the-math-seems-to-check-gif-20186998

@surreal barn when creating images, try prompting "minimalistic" and you'll see stuff like:

[surreal barn]

I type in hyper realistic 😂

[surreal barn]

Oh damn

Cool

[wintry dew]

It makes stuff calmer, cleaner, smaller

I should try hyper realistic

[surreal barn]

Another tip is you can ask Google Gemini to create an avatar and instead it creates the most detailed characteristics

Then you change what you don’t like and past it to copilot for creation

Paste*

[wintry dew]

We cooking

[twin burrow]

weeb cooking

we be* cooking

[surreal barn]

Asking it to make that image minimalistic

The fact you can upload images is legit af

[wintry dew]

Idk if it broke or not but that looks cool

[wintry dew]

Weeb 100%

[twin burrow]

in weeb we trust

[wintry dew]

Actually what's an weeb

Someone who enjoys anime or?

[gleaming pawn]

It’s a negative word for someone who is obsessed with anime and Japanese culture. More the English version of Otaku

[wintry dew]

Hmmm, yeah I do enjoy anime a lot but not to that point

I can watch an entire anime with 5 seasons and not remember most of the characters names but the main character

[surreal barn]

It’s an odd word

I’m a weeb for sushi

Can I use it that way

[wintry dew]

🫡

[surreal barn]

@wintry dew what have I done

[wintry dew]

Besides the guys on the left being kinda screwed, that goes hard. It's the Auction House event where it turns into a disco lolololol

[surreal barn]

😂

[steel scarab]

Guys

Thank you again for all the help

Just to reiterate

Do you recommend I keep queueing? Is there any real downside if my rating drops at this point?

[wintry dew]

You got your rewards

Unless you go for the legend title

[steel scarab]

I think I bought all I could from the elite vendor

[surreal barn]

I’d suggest learning sub at a higher level

At this point

[wintry dew]

Even stuff you can't use?

[steel scarab]

Well you can't use a lot of the weapons, like 2 handed sword

So I didn't buy those

[surreal barn]

You can in TWW

[wintry dew]

Exactly

[steel scarab]

.... what

[wintry dew]

You can learn them once the warband goes live

[surreal barn]

Yeah, I have past seasons sitting in my bank

[wintry dew]

Which should be in the pre patch

[steel scarab]

Really? That's great to know, I will have to buy them!

....why can rogues use 2 handers in TWW? lol

[wintry dew]

They can't

But 2handed users can

And you'll be able to learn the appearance

With whatever character

And use it with the one who can use it

Aka huge QoL for collectors like myself

Same with raid drops

Raid tokens (legacy stuff)

[steel scarab]

That is a massive qol improvement.

[wintry dew]

Instead of farming with 4 different armor type characters, you will be able to use your rogue for everything

[steel scarab]

I've vendored so many appearances I couldn't use because my rogue is my only character

[grave basin]

based and stealthpilled

[wintry dew]

Keep in mind, rogue will still only be able to use leather and the 1 handed weapons

But you can LEARN the appearances

[steel scarab]

Right but just in the event I decide to make an alt, I'll have cool transmogs

[grave basin]

imagine not being a GAMBA ASSA ROG in TEWAWI

[steel scarab]

Which makes me more likely to make one, not less!

@surreal barn swapping to sub sounds like maybe the play, I guess my assassination gearset would probably work fine for it

[grave basin]

#removeDuel

[jolly sierra]

APA for AI? dont

its still made from stolen images, so

[gleaming pawn]

If you have the sanity for it, I would push for the 50 wins @ 2400+ title instead. Sub isn’t massively changing but it’s changing enough in TWW that learning the deep stuff won’t really matter right now

Sub is also always the first to be nerfed and quite heavily, so unless you’re a die hard fan I would personally just skip it

[wintry dew]

Isnt it 100 round wins?

[gleaming pawn]

Oh is it? No idea honestly. Ain’t got the patience for those queues

[steel scarab]

What's the title? I mean, I've played over 1000 games and kept a (very loose) grasp on my sanity, so obviously I have the tenacity to get through it. Whether or not I have the skillset to actually attain that many wins at 2400, I'm not sure

[gleaming pawn]

Legendary soloist or something like that, there should be an achievement for it

[steel scarab]

I am much, much better in arena now than I was when I started learning last season, but I still don't do things perfectly

[twin burrow]

sub isnt changing much just that you sec tec earlier in rotation

[steel scarab]

I feel I am usually really good at using defensives and interrupting, but my Smoke Bombs are super subpar, people run out of them probably 60% of the time

[twin burrow]

unless we play rotten again, which im down for

[steel scarab]

My Blinds are pretty solid

[surreal barn]

Premed filling up combo points is a start lol

Loved rotten

[twin burrow]

with shadow tec and first dance it wont make a big diff, but you can deff make more use out of first dance to kidney more safe and get that extra danse macabre

[steel scarab]

I also loved rotten. I also love weird builds. I definitely tried that Rotten + Goremaw build before the pros discovered it, but I decided I was way too mediocre at sub to make that work, and I didn't have the patience to farm full max versatility gear for it back then

[twin burrow]

i think premed is such a good change.. honestly sub got alot of love this xpac, the shadowblades rework streamlined it for us smoothies

so

anyone not wanna run 2 vanishes and only 1/2 subeterfuge in TWW?

[surreal barn]

The fact you can swap to your defensive hero tree in the middle of a shuffle seems crazy to me

Just let us spec swap at that point

[steel scarab]

Oh god, please do not make me play Outlaw

I will never arena again if we're allowed to swap specs between matches

I do not want to learn 3 specs lol

[wintry dew]

[jolly sierra]

skill issue

[gleaming pawn]

[sick wasp]

mfker cant handle mindgames

smh

ppl that say such things dont even have the mindset to pvp

[wintry dew]

The existence of rogues... All ten of them

[jolly sierra]

mfker cant deal w non scripted gameplay

[spring bough]

Any of my fellow rogues joining me in the hunter ranks for TWW? Thinking ima main my BM and just have that and my outlaw as my warbands

[surreal barn]

Looking like rogue and hunter for me too. Still havent leveled an orc hunter yet though 🤦‍♂️

[steel scarab]

@sick wasp weak humans

[grave basin]

i already have two sv hunters and two rogues

waiting for tww

potentially stupid qn, do you shiv first then deathmark to get 30% more initial hit or deathmark then shiv

[halcyon timber]

Its rogue or nothing here man

[grave basin]

shiv then kingsbane or kingsbane then shiv

[halcyon timber]

Happy for hunters though. Realz did ask about them a while ago if people had experience here with them.

[spring bough]

$25 will change your hunter into an orc 😂

[surreal barn]

Gotten too use to the no pushback, teleport, and passive damage buff

I want them both lol

[spring bough]

I’m slowly realizing the older I get the less buttons I wanna press 😂

Feel like I have carpal tunnel if I play my outlaw for a good amount of rated games lol

[grave basin]

does shiv even affect kingsbane initial hit?

zzz

[spring bough]

Pretty sure it does? Doesn’t shiv increase nature damage?

[halcyon timber]

Hear ya man. I still wouldn’t do anything else regardless of what is happening.

[spring bough]

When I played Sin I would always shiv, dance and then Kingsbane

[grave basin]

im already close to 90% mastery with the new crafted neck this week

and my kingsbane is critting MAX for 300k

what the fuck am i missing

[spring bough]

I’ve def got one in the 400s or so

[halcyon timber]

Ive seen some dudes crank 650k still. Dunno how but they do.

[grave basin]

how much mastery in pvp do you have

as assa

[spring bough]

As sin? I’m def over 90

[halcyon timber]

Might also be that they hit a tank and tanks take 50.% increased dmg

[spring bough]

Or I was until my rogue got canned LMAO

[grave basin]

come back to rog

believe in realz

[spring bough]

I will when I get that level 70 boost after buying tww for a second time lmao

Not leveling from 1 to 70 screw that lol

[surreal barn]

You have more ruptures up

[steel scarab]

Shiv absolutely affects initial Kingsbane hit

[halcyon timber]

Makes sense due to lethal dose or whatever bonus yeah?

[surreal barn]

Yeah

[halcyon timber]

They can def slam

[surreal barn]

It’s 4% agi per rupture iirc

[halcyon timber]

I hope envenoms are filthy with the new talents. They def slammed on alpha.

[surreal barn]

Also sophic and boots agi

[sick wasp]

💯

[wintry dew]

Just complimented @tawny kestrel in game and he didnt blow me a kiss :c

[jolly sierra]

u know he is a tsundere

[wintry dew]

100% (or queu popped and he didnt notice)

[sudden glade]

hi all! how would you recommend someone learn rogue for pvp? i played disc priest back in wotlk but havent played the game since, lots of new stuff to learn. everything from like how one should setup hotkeys/macros correctly from the start etc

most online stuff i find assume i'm already acquainted with rogue

[wintry dew]

Hmmmm

It's quite hard to "teach" pvp

Especially rogue

Do you understand rogue in general?

[sudden glade]

yeah im thinking of just learning by playing, its just if theres anything i should be aware of before committing something to muscle memory from the start now when i have the chance

i'm probably gonna play mage/rogue 2v2 so i'm thinking mostly trying to focus on learning to chain cc'ing the healer most games

by using many focus target macros

[wintry dew]

Rogue mage i believe its still Sub > rest, since you want to be a CC/burst bot

[sudden glade]

is hunter/rogue a viable comp to get to 2k?

[wintry dew]

I'm not competent enough to say if it is or not, stopped doing 2s / 3s once solo shuffle became a thing

[sudden glade]

i'm gonna have to look into solo shuffles

[wintry dew]

Solo shuffles, right now Assassination is "king"

[sudden glade]

confusing enough without arena teams so difficult to see what the pros are playing as comps

[wintry dew]

since you're just doing PvE the whole arena

[sudden glade]

assassination seems fun

[wintry dew]

there's a youtuber / member here named Shadenox, i'd advise checking his youtube channel out

He plays assa and he does written commentary on his videos

[sudden glade]

oh? that sounds exactly what im looking for

[wintry dew]

and you can simply pause --> read --> understand whats on his head

But keep in mind, you'd want to also understand how rogue works

so the reading becomes easy

[sudden glade]

true

i'll look into his channel

and then just spam battleground until i get a feel for the playstyle

[wintry dew]

We're also playing a peculiar build in Solo shuffle

where you "basicaly" spam Fan of Knives and just dot everyone with rupture and garrote and crimpson tempest and we barely envenom

[steel scarab]

But

[wintry dew]

bro

i was about to ping you

LOL

[steel scarab]

When you have a mage teammate, don't do that

You'll break his polymorph repeatedly and definitely lose

[fresh jacinth]

Hey guys, where can i read up how to optimally deathmark for max zug zug

same with kingsbane

[wintry dew]

You just reached 2400, i guess you could provide valuable feedback with all the arenas you've been doing in this journey

[fresh jacinth]

and what macros or wa exist to automate rogue even more

[wintry dew]

@steel scarab Go wild man, you're now a "gladiator"

[steel scarab]

You don't need a single macro except this one:

#showtooltip Kingsbane
/cast Thistle Tea
/use 14
/cast Kingsbane

It's technically suboptimal because you will waste your tea stack if you're spastic and spam it when you're out of range, but

[wintry dew]

give him the blind one too 😛 at least focus macro

[steel scarab]

I never used that, I am a psychopath lol

I never used Focus anything

[fresh jacinth]

isn't there a macro that will only let you cast it every x amount of time

[wintry dew]

/cast [@focus] Blind

[fresh jacinth]

conditional macros to automate it

[steel scarab]

Maybe? I really don't know. It's best to automate as little as possible so you have the tools available to you in edge cases. Like, someone's low hp and you want to Tea to get your tick damage from Sanguine Blades

So you absolutely need to have tea as a hotkey separate as well

[fresh jacinth]

what about deathmark

what is the script for thhat

[steel scarab]

I didn't use one

[fresh jacinth]

i mean like

[steel scarab]

Terrible ability, I just used it to bait defensives

The cooldown is too long

[fresh jacinth]

dont you prep it with stuff

[wintry dew]

and purgable by so many classes/races

[steel scarab]

It baits stoneform, the evoker bleed cleanse, survival hunters, any paladin can BOP it

Ice block

[fresh jacinth]

does imp garrote/imp rupture affect it

[steel scarab]

Yes, absolutely

[fresh jacinth]

are we maintaining slice and dice

[steel scarab]

The most important time, by far, to have s+d up is during Kingsbane if you have melee uptime on your target

This will massively increase its dot damage

Even more important is Envenoming before using Kingsbane if possible

But in the hectic nature of an arena match it's very hard to get everything perfect

With people ccing and interrupting your flow

Also

By far the most important thing to understand, and this took me a long time

There are only two realistic ways to kill people

1. survive until deep dampening, which is very hard as assassination. Possible, but hard

2. you must completely stop your target from being healed.

Be it via Blind, gouge, kshot - dance - cheapshot on healer, or smoke bomb, or the target being dumb enough to chase you around a corner at half health out of line of sight of their healer

But understand that no matter how spectacular your dps rotation is, your target will not die if that healer is in range and not cc'ed

Here's another thing that's hard to learn and hard to teach

[fresh jacinth]

ya im trying to speedrun 2400 on every class

[steel scarab]

Staying in range of your own healer

[fresh jacinth]

i just did 2400 in 130 rounds

trying to beat that and i think rogue is the one to do it

[steel scarab]

I got to about 1800 and had my healers screaming at me for LOSing them because I was the idiot chasing around pillars when I was at half health

It took me 1000+ rounds but I'm also an idiot so

Hopefully these tips help, it took me countless games to learn all this lol

[fresh jacinth]

ya, im shooting for <100 rounds on rogue

i just need to learn their pve mech

[steel scarab]

I would say the cc is like 500x more important than the pve mech as rogue

Many games I win by not dpsing at all when my target dies, but by disabling the healer while my teammate kills them

Maybe I am abnormal

[fresh jacinth]

idk every r1 rogue i played against just mash big dam and it was hard

i was struggling

[steel scarab]

Yeah, I am worse than them, so

I'm sure there is a better way

[fresh jacinth]

so

maintain SnD

envenom before kb

[steel scarab]

You don't need to maintain s+d at 100% like in pve. You won't envenom much, which means you'll not get your free reapplication much. Just make sure it's up before you envenom if you're gonna be able to have uptime inside a smoke bomb

If your plan is to kingsbane then shadowstep to the healer and disable him, neither s+d nor envenom matter. Only shiv does.

Oh, always use s+d when you've got combo points and get disarmed

You can also fan of Knives while disarmed

[fresh jacinth]

damn rogues truly so privaleged lol

[steel scarab]

Uh not really, Fan does dogshit damage

Have you ever played rogue before?

If you've never played rogue I would say the chances of you getting 2400 in < 100 games is basically impossible unless you're some kind of prodigy

[fresh jacinth]

im pretty good at video games

[steel scarab]

Me too brother, me too

[fresh jacinth]

what do people do to open

it feels awkward to 4cp rupture

[steel scarab]

Idk I figured all this shit out by myself, so I'm kinda curious if you're a true 100 game prodigy lol

I already gave you a monstrous head start over what I had

Watch Shadenox's videos, I only watched 2 but they dramatically changed what I was doing

He's also like 700x better than I am

I just didn't want to watch exactly how a pro plays and copy that because figuring out the plays is part of the challenge

When you hit brick walls come here and ask for specific help. I had massive trouble with Frost mages

Still do

[fresh jacinth]

WoW is a mechanically very simple game

but there's a lot of homework you need to do

which i guess some people like

[steel scarab]

Right now you're doing the homework I never did

[fresh jacinth]

there's no point to reinvent the wheel when turbo nerds have it solved already

[potent pivot]

the only thing that affects is duration, doesn't really matter much

[steel scarab]

So no, I don't like homework. I came here and vented when I couldn't figure things out and people made fun of me, and some people kindly helped

[fresh jacinth]

big take away is to just try to have all your buffs prepped for kb

and then just damp and stall until next kb go

[steel scarab]

That's how I play, yeah. I don't think it's the best way, but it's the way I found that worked for me

[fresh jacinth]

thats basically what happened in awc

either they got a gimmick kill with deathmark or they just pved and ran away and won via damp

[steel scarab]

If you watched AWC then probably just do what they do

I didn't watch any of that shit lol

I'm trying to play the game, not watch other people play the game

[fresh jacinth]

fax

when you're just a one trick, you get to have more fun on the exploration part of the game

im just trying to beat my old record lol

[steel scarab]

I'll be astonished if you've never played rogue and do it in 100 games. I guess if you're a multiglad of other classes and already understand the basic core concepts of arena, maybe

I did not understand any of that

[fresh jacinth]

ya, arena fundamentals is all the same and transferable

you just gotta learn the pve scripts

[steel scarab]

Then maybe you'll do it. Godspeed brother

[fresh jacinth]

ty for answering questions

[steel scarab]

Aye

[jolly sierra]

xd

[gleaming pawn]

damnit Panda

you know those two ran straight to the forums to bitch about Rogue

[jolly sierra]

my mood is shitty so i imagine i spread that gloom lol

[opal bone]

[jolly sierra]

dat scalper

dude hoes mad

sold all of them in the end, guy just complained for nothing

[nova viper]

@jolly sierra seeeeeeeeeeeexo

[jolly sierra]

SEXOOOOOOO

[wanton breach]

did you send your zaralek gang members after him?

[karmic summit]

can we bring back evis as a dmg button?

[sick wasp]

did he rly dm'd u for undercutting him?

man

[past trout]

this seems pretty normal for pvp, as you spend a lot of CPs on Kidneys, SecTech etc.
You don't have good uptime on targets as in PVE, so DoTs will often be the top dmg if fight is prolonged

[karmic summit]

These are all 7cp dance symbols evises

This game ended in the opener with blades up

[chrome schooner]

Sure

In the opener during blades you managed to deal 6.36M damage to players

With a third being Rupture because we all know Rupture alone, on a 20s Shadowblades window, deals 2.6M damage

130k DPS Rupture !

[karmic summit]

Ill reword i didnt cast evis without blades up

[sick wasp]

not always the case either

but can be for sure

this is just shadow rupture procing

it does more dmg than a normal rupture

[sick wasp]

mastery

and no 😦

funny part is that it also buffs shadowrupture which does stupendous dmg

[sick wasp]

hey man,ggs on that r1

[chrome schooner]

I didn't have it last ssn!

[chrome schooner]

Well then that's a hugh issue :p

[sick wasp]

wait u are rank 1 range now arent u

hold opn gonna check

[chrome schooner]

Oh now yeah

[sick wasp]

thats why im saying ggs

[chrome schooner]

I was before going on vacation at least

[sick wasp]

who cares about previous season lul

[chrome schooner]

But the range will move a lot and I don't really have a team so

[sick wasp]

u getting it

i believe

[karmic summit]

Did you pug till your rank 1 range in 3s?

[sick wasp]

[chrome schooner]

No, but the people I played with aren't what you can call a team

They each have people they will play the end of the season with

[karmic summit]

I see i am just looking for motivation to pug to glad

[sick wasp]

u will eventually u are well inside rank 1 territory,ppl will wanna try you out

[karmic summit]

But ggs anyways man good job

[stoic spruce]

!wa

[lethal roost]

Rogue WA's:
https://wago.io/weakauras/classes/rogue (Wago Rogue)

[stoic spruce]

bitch

yeah I summoned you to call you a bitch

now begone peasant

[jolly sierra]

sadly they are zone restricted lol

[jolly sierra]

yes

[grave basin]

sup fam

[wintry dew]

sup man how you doin

[grave basin]

p good

quueing on both sv and assa

vibing

[wintry dew]

lezgo mate, hope you have an amazing queuing day and lots of CR increases

[grave basin]

i swear i love assa

it's so much more fun than sub

@wintry dew i saw they removed wild attunement from feral

maybe it will finally not play like an aids simulator

[wintry dew]

Can you remind me of what wild attunement is? havent played druid in a bit

[grave basin]

clone gives you free frenzy

feral frenzy which is a big dot and free 5cp

[wintry dew]

Oof

[grave basin]

soClose.jpg

[wanton breach]

Soon(TM)

[sick wasp]

fukz wrong with ppl man

[jolly sierra]

thought that mindset was just north american capitalism just for them

but in EU

wtf

muh coopah

[sick wasp]

bruh must have had a bad day or something

this is not a normal reaction

[jolly sierra]

i know

and was gaslighting me thinking i was the one complaining lol

[jolly sierra]

me too that day

[sick wasp]

its like idk,sometimes

ppl are weird

for no reason

[jolly sierra]

scalpers have that mindset

or fucking tryhard farmers

like the ones which camped me with cross faction just to keep doing it

dat psychos

just for greed

[sick wasp]

i corpse camp DHs and Locks

coz f@k them

but

ye

u dont pm someone for f@kin auction

makes no fukin sense

could understand someone raging for emoting in arena n stuff

[jolly sierra]

once i got one doing that too

when i was trying to sell mop leg patches

cuz i was undercutting by a little

but is useless

[sick wasp]

if u wanna seel fast ye thats the way

[jolly sierra]

the other guy is just trying to sell fast

yep

[sick wasp]

its like typical

[jolly sierra]

reposting and whining

will just get ur shit undercut for more

than doing nothing

https://tenor.com/view/think-about-it-use-your-brain-use-the-brain-think-brain-gif-7914082

they lack soft abilities it seems

just "mine, mine"

instead "win win"

[sick wasp]

btw if u wanna make fast tokens or gold for tokens

cata tokens worth 10k gold

doing dailies is 2k gold a day

play a month

get ur stuff str8

[jolly sierra]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

that is just for game time, right?

[sick wasp]

u can translate it to acc balance and buy the expansion

but that would mean no lifing cata

coz u need something like

5-6 tokens

[jolly sierra]

my brother say it wont work like that in cata

and he got like 60k gold with just an item

[sick wasp]

it adds gametime ye

[jolly sierra]

but will consider it

leveling a rog

sadly

[sick wasp]

ive made 3 tokens today

[jolly sierra]

SADLY

[sick wasp]

just sayin

[jolly sierra]

THERE ARE NOT PANDAS THERE

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[sick wasp]

why man,rogue fun

oh ye

true

[jolly sierra]

im leveling orc tho

humans in cata were boring af

with every man

[sick wasp]

im playing DK

everyone begs me to tank

[jolly sierra]

wait

I HAVE AN ORC ROGUE

FROM VANILLA

HAHAHAHHAAH

lemme see if is still there

[sick wasp]

[jolly sierra]

installing, im sending an screenshot later

[sick wasp]

dw i believe u

[stoic spruce]

I dont

What are we talking about?

[wintry dew]

You being cool

[stoic spruce]

:3

[fresh jacinth]

In PvE people only use thistle tea for the last 6 seconds of kingsbane

Is it worth using tea for the start in PvP?

[jolly sierra]

got it, can do a try

fkn love having clean names

[fresh jacinth]

Im skimming through shadenox's replays and he doesnt even bother with SnD 99% of the time

Is this an oversight or do you iust dont envenom that frequently

[jolly sierra]

weps are still poisoned what the heck

[wintry dew]

doubt a R1 player misses SnD randomly xD

SnD is good if you're contantly hitting a target with melees and its necessary b4 a kingsbane

[fresh jacinth]

Shaq misses free throws

And hes one of thr best centers ever

[wintry dew]

Fair

[fresh jacinth]

Im learning from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXURzUJWud0 and he sends KB without SnD and evenom all the time

@wintry dew

He never misses shiv though

[wintry dew]

I've seen most people now using KBs with coldblood just for the initial hit crit, 400k +

[fresh jacinth]

Hes not CB spec in the replay, so maybe people are playing a more modern spec

Thats less damp and more trying to burst for sudden death

[wintry dew]

Most people i've been seeing climbing are also mainly playing Solo shuffle, which is a less controled environment

whereas he's playing with his friends, probably on voice, they have different mindsets id say

also different needs

In SS you want to PvE as much as you can and just kill a guy asap

Its really hard to set up in SS

[fresh jacinth]

SS damp makes just doing more damage more valueable than trying to chain cc

Just setting up your own go is fine

So im just wondering why hes opting skip SnD and evenom for KB

And just press cheap shot and imp garrote/rupture on off targets

[gleaming pawn]

you don't have to have SnD and Envenom up for KB. You're leaving damage on the table if you don't, but you can still get a decent amount of damage on someone without them. And I would guess Shadenox at the time had a greater need for the KB damage right then and there, and didn't have/want to spend the time/globals getting those things running before sending the KB

[fresh jacinth]

Ig with a fire mage your overall team dam is high enough, better to just mash cheap shot and garrots on everyone for more control

[gleaming pawn]

just another reason I fucking hate the current way Sin is played 🙃 everything about PvP Sin is pants-on-head backwards and polar opposite to how you play it in PvE

[fresh jacinth]

Skipping 4piece because evenom is a trap

[gleaming pawn]

yup

Rogue currently exists to setup your actual dps, like a Mage. Yes, Sin can do big damp numbers on the meters but if you aren't spending most of your time trying to control the enemy team and passively doing damage through bleeds, you're doing it wrong

and that's just not a fun way to play, and not how Rogue used to be. Rogue still controlled people, that's always been there, but were also still extremely dangerous on their own

[fresh jacinth]

Melee aff lock with an execute lol

[jolly sierra]

just recalled rog in cata can get gold by stealing

w pickpocketing

[surreal barn]

Mop too

You could stand in one spot and put the macro on your scroll wheel

I farmed the black dagger that way

[jolly sierra]

nah dude im into cata classic now for tokens

XD

sap said is better to get gold

than retail

[tough spruce]

So we used to be demon hunters?😆

[surreal barn]

Hey now I feel quite dangerous

[orchid temple]

are there any good sin guides for rotation etc?

[inland thorn]

Do you press snd in arena as outlaw

[stoic spruce]

Yeah

[steel scarab]

@fresh jacinth I told you before, S+D and Envenom + Shiv are most important to have up before Kingsbane, but only Shiv is mandatory.

[fresh jacinth]

Ok but watch the replay

[steel scarab]

I'm not watching anything, write a sentence that describes what you're noticing

I gotta get ready to go to a friend's house

[fresh jacinth]

i alrready wrote it

[steel scarab]

You cannot realistically win against decent opponents by ignoring CC and applying pure dps because assassination has some of the least defensive cooldowns in the game right now. So smart people will focus you every game, and if you're not good at being elusive and cycling defensives intelligently and applying CC at optimal times and interrupting critical casts, you are going to die almost every round

[surreal barn]

Slice and dice is important to press but not really do or die for your “go”. Use it when you’re not busy ccing or keeping dots up

[steel scarab]

Pure zug zug assassination dps works until about 1500. I did a pure M+ dps rotation with Blind and Kidney occasionally thrown in and went 6-0 almost every round.

....until 1500. Then I started losing.

You 100% do not have to believe anything I say, and maybe your experiences are wildly different than mine, but I doubt it lol

[fresh jacinth]

tl;dr

If watch shadenox's replays against glad teams, he hardly prioritizes SnD and envenom and just mashes cheap shot and imp garrote instead during kingsbane go

[steel scarab]

That sounds in line with what I said before, which is the only thing that is absolutely mandatory before Kingsbane is Shiv

There have also been several rounds where the warrior charged in against my high dps teammate and all I did was sap, sap, sap the healer, followed by gouge which he trinkets, followed by blind, and the warrior dies

That's why rogue pvp is so hard to teach and explain

You just never know

[fresh jacinth]

thats not hard to explain

[steel scarab]

Too many variables

[fresh jacinth]

lol

[steel scarab]

Right but try that in a few rounds and see how often it works above 1800

And if you waste Blind and the warrior survives, good luck

[fresh jacinth]

you know 1800 is the baseline starting for shuffle rn right lol

everything works

[steel scarab]

Idk, I started at 0 last season I thought

This season, can't remember

[fresh jacinth]

the CR starts at 0, but the MMR rn due to inflation is like 1800

so everyone starts minimum 1800

thats why there's a very high number of 2400 first time playyers in shuffle rn, kinda like in like s1

[potent pivot]

that's not exactly how that works lol

[steel scarab]

Are there a lot of 2400 new rogue players? I don't have data to confirm or deny that

[fresh jacinth]

rogue is the melee du jour, so i assume so

[potent pivot]

if you get good "placement matches" on a new toon, you start higher

[fresh jacinth]

yeah, there's placements which swing mmr

but the baseline mmr is high too

[steel scarab]

Are you suggesting rogue is the best SS melee class?

[fresh jacinth]

since there's a charity 20 mmr per week rn

[steel scarab]

Because that's objectively wrong, it's ret paladin, warrior, and havoc demon hunter

I can show you numbers

They are quite literally the most represented melee classes across all rating levels, except 2800+

I'm getting the distinct impression you feel that because there are like ten 2900 rated assassination rogues that the spec is easy to climb with

[fresh jacinth]

are we talking about like the beginner meta

or like competitive play

[steel scarab]

All I can say is good luck lol

[fresh jacinth]

its like how the finals winners was just sin on US and sin on EU

[steel scarab]

Right, that's not solo shuffle.

[fresh jacinth]

right

[steel scarab]

It's not even remotely a 1:1 comparison

[fresh jacinth]

i mean, there's a big difference between 3s played optimally and goofy shuffle damp

with randoms

[steel scarab]

Massive

[fresh jacinth]

aren't you going out lol, this isn't really time sensitive discussion

[steel scarab]

I'm shitting

I was getting dressed earlier

[fresh jacinth]

ok enjoy

[lone goblet]

always shit before you get dressed. this was a huge blunder.

[steel scarab]

Massive oversight

[fresh jacinth]

like EU is a mega metaslave region

starting from 2400, there's more rogues than warriors and dhs lol

[steel scarab]

Start at 1800 and show me that same chart, if possible

[fresh jacinth]

why

that's just popularity not efficacy

its like how there's a 10:1 ratio for ret paladins to augmentation in m+ in all keys but it flips to the opposite when its high keys

[steel scarab]

Because you're not talking about efficacy, you keep referencing ease of use

[fresh jacinth]

i didnt say that lol

you made that up in your head

[steel scarab]

Oh, maybe I'm misunderstanding. Because obv there's a tremendous gap between "easiest to succeed with at a certain rating" and "actual highest skillcap"

[fresh jacinth]

its not skillcap, its all about tuning

[steel scarab]

Assassination has some of the highest ratings if you are a 300 IQ rogue, I just don't know if it's realistic for you to expect to recreate those results as someone who's never played rogue

[fresh jacinth]

rn when played optimally, sin is very overtuned

wow is a mechnically simple game lol, this isn't starcraft or tekken lol

[steel scarab]

I'm sure you'll hit 2400 in less than 100 games then. If it's overtuned, why even watch vids of pros? Just do whatever lol

Game is easy!

[fresh jacinth]

wdym lol, you have to learn the pve mech and the gameplan

the execution is easy, the knowledge check and homework is the work

you're a real goofy guy you know

lol

[steel scarab]

Yes

My online personality is kinda shit compared to my RL personality lol

Can't help it

[fresh jacinth]

forgiveable

social skills are harder to learn than playing rogue

[steel scarab]

Factual

I am certain you'll be 2400 with sin before I become likable on the internet

[fresh jacinth]

its not like you're doing a comedic bit, this is who you are online or not lol

[steel scarab]

No, I am being completely serious lol

[pale storm]

Wild soul is a sweet soul, dude just out here being nice and gaming. Always positive

Love to see it

2400 human rogue is giga chad

[grave basin]

had a 2400+ hpal yestd flame me then go 1 5

and he's like sub 2.1 rating rn

some people are just down bad

funniest part is after the first loss i just tunneled him and he died like a dog for 3 rounds

[steel scarab]

@pale storm thanks Blake, a lot of blood sweat and tears lol

I crossed the 2400 threshold as human, with no pvp trinket, and dual Wafting Devotion

An actual madman

[jolly sierra]

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=18297/gankly-rottenfist

look they portrayed us

[grave basin]

Wish they didn't butcher the undead rogue model

And animations

[jolly sierra]

modernity cost

i trolled a little and kited the guy

he standed till zangarmash before was apparently killed by guards

[grave basin]

I love that he's camping the nesingwary area

Just like stv

[jolly sierra]

ye lol

crazy

[twin burrow]

Wait am I silly. Is Shadow dance just baseline rogue instead of in rogue tree?

[halcyon timber]

No its not in tww.

For assassination and outlaw, without a trace was added and 6 sec subterfuge to adjust for it

They didn’t butcher animations, you just stabbed shit in place. Every attack we did was the same and the old resolutions were outdated. Stylized art still looks great. Same with attacks instead of all looking like auto attacks.

[steel scarab]

What's "Without a Trace?"

[past trout]

It's the new class-tree capstone in TWW, replacing shadow dance

[stoic spruce]

He's literally me

[spring bough]

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/s/bTPFTpT0VY

On the steam deck this dude hit 2k in rated

How is that even possible 😂

[lone goblet]

I could see it on fury warrior. You can macro your core rotation into two buttons, and all your offensive cooldowns into another button. A couple more buttons for defensives and movement and you're ready to go.

[chrome spear]

u guys using gladius dragonflight or gladiusex

[sick wasp]

whatever works

i basicly use bicmex custom gladius

its the same with presets

[fresh jacinth]

Undead female doing a flip is goated though

[fresh jacinth]

Theres a guy who was like 2400 feral on a controller

[nova viper]

imagine

playing DH

xDDD

[twin burrow]

Solo shuffle

So with no dance are they changing shrouded suffocation and imp garrote. Like. Those modifiers are our bread and butter.. are they pushing envenom that hard or do I just reatealth more lol

[lone goblet]

There is no plan. They revamped all the specs with Shadowdance as a core component for 10.2, and now are removing shadowdance 1 year later. Good luck.

[gleaming pawn]

@jolly sierra @wintry dew some things never change

[wintry dew]

OOF.

History tends to repeat itself

[jolly sierra]

he is helpless at this step

xd

[wanton breach]

the saga of hyper continues on another class discord

[jolly sierra]

hyphyp's bizzare adventure

[wanton breach]

https://tenor.com/view/dio-jojo-youre-approaching-me-jojos-bizarre-adventure-gif-14705619

[jolly sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/jotaro-no-bw-gif-18617047

[spring bough]

Couldnt ever tell if serious or trollin

[wintry dew]

actually serious

[boreal briar]

Me watching the calendar count down to prepatch with our trees and hero talents in a fucking mess, hoping some changes are coming soon™️.

[wintry dew]

We'll be fine

https://tenor.com/view/april-fools-joke-dog-its-fine-this-is-not-gif-16757454

[raven schooner]

Yo guys, have not played since like DF S2, can someone give me a quick rundown of what sub opener looks like rn? cheap -> sepsis -> shadowstrike -> secret tech? with shadow dance, blades, on use trinket, and symbols mixed in?

[twin burrow]

We need martin fury

[surreal barn]

I can’t remember the last shuffle I had without a ret

Hope TWW brings a little more diversity

[gleaming pawn]

they are slightly less tanky, but I wouldn't hold my breath 🙂

Ret is pretty damn fun on the beta

and Rogue is only going to continue to bleed players at this rate

[fresh jacinth]

Rogue popularity in pvp is pretty insane relative to total population

Like in M+ there's 10x more ret than rogues but above 2400 theres like equal rogue and ret players ish

[orchid temple]

Do I go 1x BSL, 1x Mettle for Sin embellishments?

[surreal barn]

I was referring to shuffle

[fresh jacinth]

@surreal barn makes sense how youll see a lot of rets, because they try not to have the same dps class in the same lobby

[surreal barn]

@fresh jacinth

2400+

[fresh jacinth]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/329442619119632385/1254550886550867978/Screenshot_20240623_173603_Firefox.jpg?ex=6679e70f&is=6678958f&hm=611ef01679121058949dbf178ecb1c98c2ea00dc4fca327b385183c8ee0ee1af&

Are you NA or EU

[surreal barn]

NA

[fresh jacinth]

NA theres a bit more rets than rogues, EU, theres more rogues to rets

Americans love jesus

Aka the light

[surreal barn]

I also think selecting 2400+ is a shit way to measure

Even in this busted inflated season

Of those 228 rogues on eu many have 7-8 alts in the mix

[fresh jacinth]

Probably pick 2700+ to adjuat for inflation

[surreal barn]

Yeah no

[fresh jacinth]

Then there will be less alts

Since queue times are long at higher rating

[surreal barn]

You dont want to balance around the 2700+ r1s

[fresh jacinth]

2700 players are much weaker than r1 players

And r1 players are much weaker than tournament players

[surreal barn]

They often fall in that mix until the final push

[fresh jacinth]

Yeah

Since theyre busy boosting for rent money lol

Do you think the game should be balanced around optimal play or the median play

[surreal barn]

It should be balanced around what makes people want to queue more

So PvP doesn’t die a shitty death

[fresh jacinth]

Then they probably should buff ret more

Since ret is popular

[surreal barn]

Certainly not. What's your take because I know that isn't it

Balancing the entire system around the 1000 players that hit elite doesn't seem like the right way to get new people into the game

We will hit it regardless

I'm so surprised they haven't implemented some sort of training mode where you can have an AI controlled DH just run at you for an hour while you learn how to peel him off you inbetween these shuffle queues for the new people

[fresh jacinth]

Games with a healthy comeptitive ladder balance around pro competition first while having fun gimmicky stuff for average players

Or they exclusively balance around pro play like tekken, and street fighter

[surreal barn]

I hate tekken and street fighter

[fresh jacinth]

Starcraft balances around pro play and nerfs random cheese stuff

[surreal barn]

It's a stretch comparing wow to those

[fresh jacinth]

I guess the closest would be League and dota

[surreal barn]

probably dota

but still

[fresh jacinth]

Icefrog doesnt give a fuck about the crying casuals

He only balances for pro play

I think the biggest benefit for dota is its under one singular vision of one person only

Like Wisp for 99.9% of players had a < 30% win rate but it was first pick first ban at pro play and he still nerfed wisp

[surreal barn]

They are going in the right direction by homogenizing certain CC animations but knowledge is power. It is dumb as hell for everyone to study a textbook worth of shit to know why they died

[fresh jacinth]

I think they should just introduce pick/bans at tournaments so they can balance around what players want more

[steel scarab]

Right but here's the huge difference

You pick your character every game in Dota and start over

[fresh jacinth]

Then pro play will be more balanced because stuff thats egregious at pro play doesnt effect things

[surreal barn]

Just because it's an MMO doesn't mean every class needs 6 different slows and 6 different gap closers lol

[steel scarab]

In wow some people feel major emotional attachment to their class

[surreal barn]

Balancing is gonna be WILD in TWW!

[fresh jacinth]

Ya some people make their claas their whole personality in MMORPGs

Which is probably some sort of mental illness but it is what it is

[steel scarab]

If juggernaut in Dota gets nerfed, OK who cares, ill pick phantom assassin or something next game

[surreal barn]

Usually it's vice versa

They put themselves into their character

[steel scarab]

Yeah definitely vice versa, people pick their class based on their personality

But yeah, PA and juggernaut have 4 abilities, the learning curve isn't as obscene

[surreal barn]

Every dude in the warrior discord benches at LEAST tree fiddy

[steel scarab]

Classes in wow have how many, 20? 30? 40?

Most people would rather quit than start over

[fresh jacinth]

How many buttons does DH have

[steel scarab]

6?

8 maybe?

[fresh jacinth]

I think 1:1 dh probably has the same amount of spells as rogue

[steel scarab]

Unhinged take. Are you a dh main or something

[fresh jacinth]

No

Why would you say a 8 when they have more though

[steel scarab]

That is the first time I have ever heard that opinion, ever lmao

Sincerely

[fresh jacinth]

Do you think its appropriate to be reductive that sin rogue is iust garrote and rupture

Two button class

[steel scarab]

There's a reason why Havoc has such high representation across all rating levels until you reach like, 2400+ and it's because that class is objectively the easiest melee class to do well with in Solo Shuffle.

You are coping if you disagree

[fresh jacinth]

Definitely

But i guess the question is how important is 2400 in shuffle, its like the same difficulty as heroic end boss

For pvp

End game

[steel scarab]

That's another hot take because it took me like a month to hit KSM (2400) in mythic+ and that was all gear related. While it took me... three months? Of constant play to hit anywhere close 2400 in arena, and I had pretty ideal gear for most of the attempts

So my problem wasn't gear, it was obviously skill

[fresh jacinth]

M+ rating isnt 1:1 to arena

[steel scarab]

Neither is heroic raid, so I don't understand the point you're trying to make

[fresh jacinth]

Because heroic raid end boss is like the entry point to more competitive pve

I guess historically speaking gladiator would be the entry point to competitive pvp

[steel scarab]

Competitive pve raiding is more about networking with like minded people and following a pve script than actually being good

[fresh jacinth]

Thats the same as pvp

Networking and following a flowchart

[steel scarab]

There are like 10 "if, then" flowcharts on a pve end boss

There are like 100,000,000 in pvp

[fresh jacinth]

There's much less in pvp

[steel scarab]

What a hot take. Lmao

How's your climb going

Hit 100 games yet?

[fresh jacinth]

No i haven't played

I didnt say 100 games, i dont have time for that

I said 100 rounds

[steel scarab]

Judging by the amount of posts here about a class you don't even seem to enjoy, I'd say you've got plenty of time

[fresh jacinth]

I like rogues a lot

Feels good being the most privileged melee

[steel scarab]

People said that about demon hunters for like, 5 patches

Straight

[fresh jacinth]

Rogues eat DHs alive fortunately

[steel scarab]

Well practiced rogues do

[fresh jacinth]

Rogue the class yes

We're not talking about sub optimal play

[steel scarab]

Are you a 2900 player on any class

[fresh jacinth]

No

Ive only gotten 2800

[steel scarab]

Specifically assassination rogues holding you back, I guess

[fresh jacinth]

Usually just chanimals

Chan really is a generational talent

[steel scarab]

You probably feel the same about assassination rogues as I feel about frost mages

It's a class based game

[fresh jacinth]

I dont feel anything about sin rogues

[steel scarab]

Some classes just suck against other classes

[fresh jacinth]

Or frost mages

[steel scarab]

Your posts very clearly indicate the opposite

At least have some self awareness

[gilded gulch]

Why do people always talk about shuffle

it's the most rating inflated bracket ever

[fresh jacinth]

@gilded gulch idk shuffle is awful

I just wanna play 3s

[gilded gulch]

real

[steel scarab]

3s has like no queue time

[fresh jacinth]

You gotta play HR simulator though

[steel scarab]

That's why I don't play 3s

No thanks

[fresh jacinth]

Its fine to get into groups if you're an existing mglad but its just unfun to sift through liars

[gilded gulch]

Idk out of the 3 rogue specs

it's ironic since sin is considered the braindead pve one

[orchid temple]

Can anyone help me with some sin gear q's? Wondering which embellishments to get firstly

Murlok says BSL 57 and Mettle 32

But isn't clear to me if it's 2x BSL or 1x BSL 1x Mettle

[steel scarab]

@orchid temple I do 2x BSL but most do 1x BSL and mettle

[fresh jacinth]

Gushing wounds sin was fun and engaging gameplay

[gilded gulch]

lmaoooo

[fresh jacinth]

Very high skill

[gilded gulch]

first time i played sin in df i got 2.1 in shuffle in the only a few q's

ran at healer 80% of the games

dead by 2nd dm

[fresh jacinth]

Sin truly the most technical and skillful thing you can play

[orchid temple]

Thanks 🙂 Could I DM you a few follow-ups?

[steel scarab]

Sure

@gilded gulch was that before they nerfed Kingsbane by another 15% and Shrouded Suffocation and Improved Garrote by another 10% each

[gilded gulch]

I mean

its still the easiest rogue spec

by a mile

[steel scarab]

In ss? Yes

[gilded gulch]

in general