I'm so close to uninstalling lol
#pvp
steel scarab
quaint cedar
Unless the player forgets to keybind defensives which half of DHs do in shuffle lol
tawny kestrel
i did a 518k kingsbane yesterday
tawny kestrel
ye
steel scarab
@tawny kestrel how is it even possible to have stats like that at this point
steel scarab
How though
tawny kestrel
played the game
steel scarab
Like logistically
surreal barn
Ah
tawny kestrel
only thing i might do is magmorax neck
steel scarab
Can you look at my gear and tell me what I did wrong and how to fix it
tawny kestrel
sure
tough spruce
What would you say is the most important pve piece for pvp (assa rogue)?
steel scarab
Because losing simply because I didn't gear right is fucking annoying
tawny kestrel
What would you say is the most important pve piece for pvp (assa rogue)?
mastery haste ring
tough spruce
mastery haste ring
Got it, thanks
steel scarab
From my POV, the only thing I did really wrong was use my free tier token to buy the tier helm. But that was because I didn't realize I could upgrade the Hellbloom vest to be a tier piece
So I have a super cursed haste helmet
Otherwise, I don't see what I'm doing wrong with my gear, other than I don't have access to a second embellishment yet and idk how to get one
Because again, the game doesn't tell us
tawny kestrel
only 1 embellishment
u will get a lot of mastery when u craft
id prolly craft head or ring
with bsl
tawny kestrel
thats what id recommend
steel scarab
But I can't make those yet, right
tawny kestrel
u can have 2x crafted items rn
steel scarab
How do I get a second one? I have done tons of PvP but haven't gotten a spark
steel scarab
God
I looked at that
And said to myself
"I don't need that, I'm honor capped"
I didn't realize it gave a spark
Fuck my life
tawny kestrel
ye
assa is still fine also
im doing basically the same damage
as before nerf
can feel it a little bit, but nothing game changing
steel scarab
Right but you have like 20% more mastery than I do
tawny kestrel
sure
steel scarab
Okay that helps though, I'll def do that quest, and craft... Is it possible to put BSL on a neck?
tawny kestrel
ye u can
jolly sierra
i scrolled up and think someone from US need to go to hyper's house and coach him personally lol
steel scarab
I'm thinking maybe BSL neck would make sense since I screwed up and got a conquest and a vault ring already
Is it possible to also make engineering helm or bracers this week?
harsh steppe
i scrolled up and think someone from US need to go to hyper's house and coach hi...
i'm down
tawny kestrel
at this point in time, you can have a maximum of 2 crafted items
unless youve picked coins in ur vault and bought 2 splinters for some reason
steel scarab
Okay, I definitely have not done that, so neck is probably the most sensible choice atm
jolly sierra
damn i picked the boots as always as 1st embelishment
steel scarab
Thank you for the advice, I'll do that tonight
tough spruce
@tawny kestrel was looking at your armory and noticed shadowflame wreath enchant. Do you use it to proc the ring or is it just better overwll dps than double sophic devotion?
tawny kestrel
i use it to proc the rings yes, but cant decide if its worth it over a 2nd sophic
probably isnt
tough spruce
Makes sense. So I guess the goal is to stack as much mastery as possible without going below 30% vers?
surreal barn
Blows my mind you can’t just queue mythics
surreal barn
i use it to proc the rings yes, but cant decide if its worth it over a 2nd sophi...
I made a flaring cowl on my other rogue 😂
steel scarab
@surreal barn Flaring Cowl pioneer
surreal barn
The always on proc isn’t that bad but better than the other embellishments? Won’t know till the other rings are upgraded
steel scarab
Good question
I only have one rogue so I'm not gonna risk it until you're sure lol
I don't have enough playtime to experiment
I'm an old man
halcyon timber
I'm an old man
You’re not old unless you are 96.
surreal barn
Only as old as /played
steel scarab
@surreal barn oh, if we're talking about /played then I'm definitely younger than all of you lol
vital socket
You’re not old unless you are 96.
Anything over the age of 20 is a boomer
halcyon timber
Anything over the age of 20 is a boomer
20 year olds just learned how to pee straight.
harsh steppe
do y'all pay attention to your energy in matches?
halcyon timber
do y'all pay attention to your energy in matches?
Yeah depends on what is up
vital socket
20 year olds just learned how to pee straight.
Go listen to more rush on your cassette old man
steel scarab
I only played Vanilla, TBC, and WOTLK, and then came back for SL and now Dragonflight
halcyon timber
Go listen to more rush on your cassette old man
Honestly dunno who rush is
harsh steppe
...
halcyon timber
...
Always store energy and try to analyze what is going on each moment. Stop people before they can stop you. Slow things down.
halcyon timber
Slow things down and breathe a good bit. Don’t get caught in the minutia of it all.
I have heard of them but i don’t recognize a single song (heard they are awesome but yeah)
jolly sierra
big time rush
halcyon timber
I grew up on metal and grunge
vital socket
Alice in chains cassette
halcyon timber
Lots of 90s rock and numetal too. I dig alice in chains, rhcp etc
vital socket
Bis music period imo
halcyon timber
Wish i could of seen them ubplugged downtown
Yeah some great metal today as well
Def killswitch got me through a lot of stuff
harsh steppe
killswitch all the way
halcyon timber
After the Burial is filthy af too
twin burrow
Alice in chains are phenomenal
stoic spruce
St. Anger by Metallica is a very good album. Anytime I feel down, there's a song on there that describes exactly how I feel.
halcyon timber
Man in a box all day
harsh steppe
norma jean anyone
halcyon timber
I do like the album black gives way to blue
Norma jean is great. Saw them live too
I dig saint anger too
halcyon timber
People like to meme and talk trash hit saint anger had a good spot. I dig death magnetic too
The day that never comes will always hold a place in my heart . Great fuckin metallica track
Nutshell is one of my favorite AIC songs
twin burrow
St anger the song itself is so good. I love when artist aren't afraid to explore themselves and not be confined to the publics opinion on what art they should make
halcyon timber
Sainttt angerrr round my neckkkk
Meanwhile james was going through crazy ass heroin addiction at that time too
twin burrow
The riff sounds a lot like honey buckets by the melvins. If anyone wants to listen to a similar sound
harsh steppe
Norma jean is great. Saw them live too
damn so jealous i think they are my favorite band of all time
stoic spruce
Mama why's it raining in my room?
halcyon timber
damn so jealous i think they are my favorite band of all time
Saw them with lamb of god and gojira
twin burrow
Nutshell is a masterpiece of a song for anyone who is battling with their demons. Give it a try.
stoic spruce
halcyon timber
Yeah i dig that fuckin sad shit
Things get better and shit aint going to be pretty but by god we will rise again
Love sound garden and audio slave too
twin burrow
I feel like we turned into warlock mains real quick with this chat LOOOL
harsh steppe
oof
halcyon timber
Nah always been a gloomy person
stoic spruce
Wish layne could have too
Rebel of Babylon was written in his honor
twin burrow
You mean honest person
harsh steppe
don't jinx us 
@twin burrow
halcyon timber
But I prefer to help others more than boohoo
Gotta chop that wood and carry that water. The show must go on boys
stoic spruce
People like to meme and talk trash hit saint anger had a good spot. I dig death...
That's my favorite album
Unforgiven 3 inspired me to play guitar and piano 16 years ago
halcyon timber
Unforgiven is filthy af
twin burrow
just saying i dub thee unforgiven is so powerful
stoic spruce
The solo goes hard
halcyon timber
That was the first song i heard and it made me love metal
Was riding w my dad and he said “wanna see some cool shit?”
Played that and yeah fuckin loved metal ever since
twin burrow
comon, where are my guitar hero boys at? how much music that itnroduced me to was great. like tony hawk introducing meto music. those 2 games, tony hwak and guitar hero helped my music taste im so grateful
stoic spruce
Dude I was driving to the store, listening to the radio. And All Nightmare Long came on so naturally I had to sit in the parking lot for 7 minutes until the song ended.
halcyon timber
Papa roach had some good tracks back then
harsh steppe
i am taking my final exams rn & playing wow
twin burrow
hyper u better be cheating
harsh steppe
actually i am LOL
stoic spruce
Papa roach had some good tracks back then
Leave A Light On is my new fav
halcyon timber
I do dig some of their newer stuff but some stuff is respectfully out of my scope and ill leave it alone
surreal barn
We are going to make it to Reddit if we keep it up lol
stoic spruce
Keep what up
halcyon timber
Reddit can f themselves too
halcyon timber
Making fun of others for their enjoyment
stoic spruce
They're St. Anger haters
stoic spruce
Living dead inside
twin burrow
usually the least liked songs are the best ones artistically
because its the artist vulnurability
twin burrow
they are not popular because it makes people uncomfrotbale
halcyon timber
Dunno what that is
stoic spruce
Dragon?? Hell yes dude
halcyon timber
Gotta get back to studying but ill catch up after
stoic spruce
halcyon timber
I appreciate the kindness. Catch up with you guys later on after.
wintry dew
This channel should be renamed to Sometimes PvP
stoic spruce
Well make pvp worth talking about lol
twin burrow
we gotta diss track blizzard
wintry dew
I'm not criticizing, I myself off topic here
stoic spruce
Dk is so down bad, the pvp channel doesn't talk about pvp.
wintry dew
It's just funny how
stoic spruce
Dk is so down bad, the pvp channel doesn't talk about pvp.
Ever
wintry dew
Coming here, people might be talking about music, touching grass, pvp, transmog, gym
A well rounded channel in my book
twin burrow
agreed
dense sluice
idk why that is filtered
stoic spruce
What's deleting the message lol
wintry dew
Wtf LOL
stoic spruce
The Lulu SLANDER
wintry dew
Oh
twin burrow
my brother is into guys he identifies as a Riffage?
stoic spruce
Lmaoo
stoic spruce
That insult would not stick
wintry dew
lulu is a league champion 😦
twin burrow
that taste purple!
stoic spruce
Delulu is the solulu
surreal barn
Never played it
stoic spruce
Hits what
wintry dew
Dawnbringer kayn Prestige Will be back to the shop
wintry dew
I've been waiting for almost 2 years
stoic spruce
Wake me up when dk changes
Can't sleep
I work night shift 7 days a week and then I'm off. This is my first evening off and idk what to do.
Like
It's 10am
Should I sleep?
twin burrow
meditate for 5 minutes see how u feel
stoic spruce
I used to do that a lot
twin burrow
see you in 5m
stoic spruce
I'm gonna listen to audio book and sleep
twin burrow
gn sweet prince
make sure to put a timer on the book
so its not dictating your dreamstate
stoic spruce
I have a story to tell you
I was listening to The Dunwich Horror by HP Lovecraft and I had fallen asleep right? Well I wake up to the sound of a house getting crushed and a woman dying. It scared the bejeezus out of me.
wintry dew
👀
twin burrow
sleep paralysis? 🤔
stoic spruce
No it was the audiobook. They play the scenes out sometimes.
I learned that the hard way
wintry dew
sleep paralysis? 🤔
I've actually learn how to deal with them
Although I can still identify them, I have a rough time waking myself
stoic spruce
The first time I had sleep paralysis, I was in school and I had my head on my hand on my desk and I couldn't move. I remember all my friends were next to me and I tried to get their attention but I couldn't even make a noise. That was so scary lol
twin burrow
its extremely strange
i hate trying to yell for help and all i can do is like little inaudicable sounds
but yeah the best way is to not panick and focus on getting an adrenaline spike to wake up.. thats my strat.. i jolt myself up
stoic spruce
I remember when I was in the military I'd try to induce sleep paralysis to "fight" the demon lol. Idk what I was thinking.
stoic spruce
I remember thinking "RAHHH COME GET ME MOTHERFUCKER" And it never did.
twin burrow
i do the same tbh, i would almost conjure up my deepest fears just to conquor them
catch yaal later banditos
stoic spruce
Bye-bye
potent pivot
This channel should be renamed to *Sometimes PvP*
untold remnant
How to you proc the fire effects?
wintry dew
<:PlatypusCosplayingAsBeaver:836584422412517397>
Don't worry, sometimes JJ has to delete half of the conversation because someone (me) went off topic
wintry dew
How to you proc the fire effects?
Weapon enchants + helm enchant (in case it procs in pvp, which I'm not sure it does)
untold remnant
Ye but is Raz using it? Or just stats?
wintry dew
Raz: imma try stuff and see if it works
Shadowflame enchant stocks 
halcyon timber
You all don’t horde enchants and gems like me?
Hell yeh, i even keep my old poisons from back in the day as a momento
harsh steppe
no but i always keep a gold four-leafed clover in my bag for good luck
waxen meteor
it feels like double blue silk is bugged?
surreal barn
Works once you enter the arena
waxen meteor
Works once you enter the arena
You mean out of arena, it's single blue silk, but when get in it's double?
last jasper
it feels like double blue silk is bugged?
Yea. Sometimes. At least the tooltip and the stat is lower than it should be
untold remnant
im using 1 weapon enchant yes but idk if worth
I tried it with shadowflame enchant too, but the dot procs of gouge and breaks it. Which was kind of annoying. So I use 1 patch of embellishment
It did proc more tho then with only the embellish
sick wasp
healer in shuffles
💀
ppl charge and die without pressing cds
i c now how cringe is to play a healer
last jasper
so cringe when rupture is ur top dam and sec tec crits higher than evis...
gleaming pawn
You mean out of arena, it's single blue silk, but when get in it's double?
It’s a bug with BSL, you have to take damage or requip your crafted pieces to fix
mossy torrent
guys question, resto druid open on you in duel/world pvp
in cat form slowly wearing u down u unload burst on him he still 100% hp
and u die afther some time, is there anything we can do?
can we kill healers, assa rogue
steel scarab
@mossy torrent at equal item level, you just lose to any healer who isn't a windowlicker
They are obscenely overtuned for 1v1
Period
@gleaming pawn Insane that we even need a WA like this. The game should function properly lol
Even more insane that it's still bugged like this at the end of the expansion, after 4 major content patches
I remember when I first made my second BSL I equipped it and was like, wait, why is my Mastery almost the same? Then after lots of Google searching and investigating, I learned it was a known bug that you need to unequip both BSL items, then re-equip them at the same time using the dressing room
So frustrating
waxen meteor
https://wago.io/eqbAqvZ-8
Thanks!!
sick wasp
can we kill healers, assa rogue
just dont hit them when they press thorns.Druid can survive your cds with overgrowth + barkskin
the window u can kill a rdrood is when he doesnt have skin/overgrowth on him,thats ideal
if u stay there and let any healer trade u while he heals himself u will die
its idiotic
press that dance and push the bleeds on a stun
if he trinkets blind and wait to reset drs,kill over skin with DM if no overgrowth is available.(Make sure to vanish garrote for the silence to have some extra time before he bites the dust)
if u are not comfortable
just mount up and leave
idle root
im moving to sin rogue a bit to learn, what is our bread and butter opener? do we cheap shot or save stun dr for kidney?
weary pumice
is ilvl important on offhand as assa ? just got the vers mast dagger from raid wich is 480ilvl and wonder if i can use it for more mastery
sick wasp
yeah it is important,u can always farm a dagger for some honor
weary pumice
i have the warmonger one, the one you buy with trophy
sick wasp
sounds cool but the higher the better
weary pumice
alright thanks for the answer
i also got the heavy mastery ring, upgraded it to 506, that i should use right ? as it has no agi on rings
quaint cedar
Man people are crafting some weird ass embellished gear this season
I have no idea what to do now
harsh steppe
mm
idle root
just summon the pet for the stun 
harsh steppe
not for opener
surreal barn
True about the opener
idle root
I hate having a pet as Hunter
but yeah it can get frustrating micro managing your pet against good players
harsh steppe
also you can macro savage rend and all the other pet abilities into your basic spamming attacks like arcane shot
tough spruce
Guys need help on a simple macro for shadow dance as sub. Currently im using:
#showtooltip Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea
/use 14
For some weird reason thistle tea doesnt go off most of the times but sometimes it does.
Nvm figured it out 😅
harsh steppe
what was it?
chrome schooner
Probably that he uses Dance a lot more often than he has Thistle Tea
waxen meteor
boomie seems to be doing 1823018230128 dmg
steel scarab
Quick, nerf assassination!
outer sky
Now that the nerfs have been live for a couple days has there been a consensus on which spec is our best rn?
quaint cedar
Toss up between outlaw and sin, probably depends on what comp you're playing and what you're confortable with. For shuffle I'm not sure, don't play that much, but I'd guess sin is better
untold remnant
Outlaw Arcane Rdru or Boomie Outlaw Prevoker is still really good
steel scarab
Interesting
I hope they're either massively buffing Iron Wire or giving Assassination new ways to escape combat, because if they take away Shadow Dance fron assassination, Iron Wire is basically dead
Ditto Master Assassin
untold remnant
https://www.wowhead.com/news/may-9th-the-war-within-alpha-development-notes-stor...
I just wanted to link the same article
untold remnant
It is only an alpha build, but yeah.. not very inspiring
Blizzard is going to introduce a new class that has stealth and does all things better then rogue
twin burrow
Uhh this looks terrible for rogue..
untold remnant
There must be stuff to compensate for it ye, so let’s wait for final / beta build before dooming more 🤓
untold remnant
It looks like they want outlaw to go haste mastery
twin burrow
Looks like they want outlaw to stay pve
untold remnant
Those changes affect pve too
surreal barn
Subtlety it is
harsh steppe
do we still need gladius with the arena frames? what does gladius have that the default ui's arena frames doesn't have?
twin burrow
Dr trackers
And cool downs if u use gladiux ex, but It takes some setting up to your preference
Trinket and racial tracker too
quaint cedar
Lots of weird changes for rogue in this alpha build
harsh steppe
ty retro
safe turret
tww outlaw looking horrible
quaint cedar
Idk I think it's too early to say that
These all read as nerfs at first but I'd imagine there's more changes being worked on
Considering how badly Ace just got nerfed in pvp, it might not be a bad thing to see outlaw being less reliant on stealth windows in TWW
safe turret
they'll adjust the numbers of course but imagine if outlaw played outside of crackshot windows atm
just ran around mashing sinister strike/ambush/dispatch
quaint cedar
Kind of alarming that 1 seemingly tiny nerf to a single talent on live can fuck over outlaw so badly
quaint cedar
Yeah, we'd have to see what else they come up with. I don't want to entirely lose stealth gameplay
But a good mix of old and new would be nice. I miss having pressure outside of CDs like I used to back in SL
quaint cedar
Doesn't seem like it
I don't have alpha but it wasn't mentioned in any notes
With TWW changes we all get 6 sec subterfuge and 2 charges of vanish
surreal barn
Wait Assa gets two vanishes?
safe pelican
Assa kinda mid after that garrote nerf
Sub might be back in
Gunna queue up some SS real quick on assa to verify , thinking to maybe drop kingsbane for something to get a little more sustained dmg
safe pelican
Frost Mage is just so troll rn
steel scarab
You could drop KB for Serrated Bone Spike but then you have no killing power
safe pelican
You could drop KB for Serrated Bone Spike but then you have no killing power
I was thinking that but i would rather kings bane i don’t see anything worth dropping for tbh except me running CT and i think i rather KB over CT but idk
steel scarab
You could drop KB for Sepsis but it's basically the same ability, except worse, but you don't need uptime on your Sepsis target so you can go cross CC
You could drop Indiscriminate Carnage and take both KB and Sepsis but then you get exactly one tiny window to kill someone and if you fail it's over
Those are our options lol
fallen scaffold
idk im still pumping with assa
125k-150k dps every ss round
kingsbane usually my 4th highest dam
or 5th
at like 1.5m-2m
steel scarab
@fallen scaffold insane. At what MMR level? People I'm playing against don't let me multidot them easily with IC, unless it's 2 melee
fallen scaffold
2.1k
steel scarab
I was just completely out damaged by the warlock and the mage could kite the living fuck out of me
But if I leave the mage free either I explode or my teammate explodes
steel scarab
Right so my options are, target the warlock and get exploded by the mage or, target the mage and get kited around while the warlock DOTs just eat your team
Because Affliction DOTs >>>>>> Our DOTs now
fallen scaffold
if enemy healer isprevoker, were kinda fucked to
steel scarab
Right
Plus, I've played against so many fucking survival hunters
Which just feels like it hard fucking counters us
fallen scaffold
ye ive been owning surv hunters today for some reason
steel scarab
Lucky
fallen scaffold
like 1 maybe 2 played mending bandage
steel scarab
Love Survival Hunter + Ret as opponents
Or Survival hunter + holy paladin
Oh, you've perfectly prepared your setup for your Dance + Garrote + Rupture + Deathmark? Gonna just bandage that right off
Oh you got another full set of bleeds on someone? Just gonna BOP that right off
Is there any other class that requires long (2+ minute) cooldowns like ours that a class just counters with a low cd instant cast ability so easily?
Like Ice Block removes them all, sure, but then they're relatively vulnerable after that
Survival Hunter just takes a PvP talent that specifically fucks our class lol
steel flame
is outlaw no longer playable
gleaming pawn
Rogues are stun bots for your teammates to kill, you don’t need damage then 😉
fallen scaffold
i had an outlaw in a lobby earlier, he was pumping 140k deeps
but i hear it feels like ass now, ya
steel scarab
Right but what do you do when a Demonology warlock is your teammate
Or frost mage lol
Against melee opponents
steel scarab
I get restealths a lot in arena but a lot of times I either have to pillarhump hide a long time to get out of combat or run across the arena, and smart people, rather than chase me, just immediately start killing my teammate
And now that Imp Garrote ate a big nerf, the restealths feel a lot less impactful
Maybe I am just a dogshit player, idk
fallen scaffold
never that lol
its only 10%
the silence is and aoe spread is why u stealth
not the dam
have to think about it in a diff way i think
just think pressure
steel scarab
Right but into 2 melee the AOE silence doesn't do anything. There a damage reduction component, yeah, but
It isn't super strong
twin burrow
time to re-read the alpha patch notes
steel scarab
The AOE silence still is nice for the healer, but
twin burrow
wish me luck
steel scarab
The healer, if he has a brain, isn't standing 2 yards from his melee teammates
That's true, I'm gonna spec back into CT
I foolishly dropped it recently
fallen scaffold
oh youre not playing ct
steel scarab
Probably part of why I'm losing
fallen scaffold
ya
steel scarab
Can someone answer me this?
Who is Venom Rush for? What type of player?
As far as I can see, I love it as a talent but it's unplayable in literally every form of content
Wrong talent name
Vicious Venoms
Is what I meant
steel scarab
It's 2 points, has anti synergy with Sanguine Blades, Mutilate does miserable damage, Ambush does slightly better but still bad damage
Why is that in the tree? It's bad in raid, it's bad in M+, it's even bad just doing world quests
fallen scaffold
I dont remember last time i pressed ambush
wintry dew
Because they thought it could be used somewhere
steel scarab
The only thing it has synergy with is Caustic Spatter, which is only playable in raid, and Vicious Venoms is absolutely horrible in raid
I mean it absolutely could be used somewhere if it didn't add SEVENTEEN PERCENT energy to the cost of our builders
steel scarab
Is it fine to offer talents that actively make our abilities worse? Wait, hear me out
They definitely notice when things are too good
They just nerfed both Garrote and Kingsbane in the same patch
Why not like, idk, buff Vicious Venoms by making it 3 energy/5 energy instead of the absolutely unplayable 5/10?
They surely notice that less than 0.4% of the rogue playerbase has used this talent all expansion
wintry dew
the expansion is over tho
steel scarab
Is it? Then why do PvP balance tuning 2 days ago?
steel scarab
To me that seems like it would've been a good time to buff a talent that nobody uses
surreal barn
Hunter is so fun lol
surreal barn
Sit back crack a beer and win shuffle with one hand
steel scarab
It's not even just PvP, VV is unplayable in every form of content lol
Okay I mean I take it back, I guess it might be playable if you somehow achieved like, 50% haste rating
wintry dew
Twist the knife
i cant remember the last time i used it
as outlaw, was triple threat ever used?
karmic summit
1 pvp employee
If there was 1 guy balance would be better this is some chat gpt 3.5 lvl balancing
steel scarab
It's absolutely viable in PvP, if DTB was viable
But they nerfed both our weapon poison damage and the procrate of DTB so spectacularly that Twist the Knife thereby became worthless
wintry dew
it was never used tho
steel scarab
Right, so like, that's another great example of a talent that needs a revamp
Ditto Intent to Kill
wintry dew
there are a lot of talents that could need a revamp
steel scarab
Who in god's name would ever take this over Iron Wire in any form of content
fallen scaffold
lol
wintry dew
but there will ALWAYS be talents that wont be picked
because there are always better choices
wintry dew
Talking about WoW
steel scarab
That game is literally free to play, supported by whales.
It has a meta
It constantly changes, because they constantly slightly buff heroes nobody uses
And slightly nerfs the ability of the heroes everybody uses / have the highest winrates
steel scarab
The issue is that they need to hire people to balance PvP
wintry dew
they keep firing them
steel scarab
If they could stop that, that would be good
gleaming pawn
There has to be choices and talents in the trees to offer the illusion of choice. Everyone knows the best build will be found eventually but early on after the rework VV was used in some builds in pve because things were still being figured out
Also if the only talents that were in a tree were the ones that you 100% took all of the time, they would no longer be talents and the system fails
steel scarab
Right, it absolutely shouldn't be a set of talents you take 100% of the time
But when there are talents that are picked 0% of the time, the solution should be
Blizzard: "ok let's very slightly buff those unused talents each patch until they become roughly as powerful as the other options and then it's not just the illusion of choice, it's actual choice"
This is easiest to balance on the choice nodes where you have to pick one or the other
gleaming pawn
Again, VV was taken early on so it fits your criteria. Just because it’s not taken now doesn’t mean no one took it before
steel scarab
Oh, I played the whole xpac and I don't remember it ever being good
gleaming pawn
PvP builds also were playing it before it was discovered FoK was better to use
steel scarab
How could they support the energy cost
Have you tried it lol
I have. Even with 15% haste and full DOTs on two targets I go completely out of energy in like 6 mutilates
gleaming pawn
Yes I have, but the ST builds played very differently than we have now
It was more akin to the PvE raid side with pooling windows
steel scarab
I feel like it was clearly developed as a PvP talent, to 1) give our builders armor penetration, and 2) to give them more respectable levels of damage and burst at the cost of an added energy expenditure
The problem is
Last season we had what, 800k hp? Mutilate hit for 12k
This season we have what, 1.1 million hp?
Mutilate hits for 16k
Meaning
Vicious Venoms isn't scaling properly because Mutilate isn't scaling properly
gleaming pawn
Yep with how shit Mut and Ambush are tuned, it’s proven to just not be a good talent
steel scarab
Right, it's super easy to fix
gleaming pawn
And with the TWW rework, it might see more play or changes. I haven’t even looked at the new talent tree changes for earlier today
steel scarab
Start by leaving the damage exactly where it's at and halving the energy increase
stoic spruce
LOVE the outlaw changes
gleaming pawn
Trickster getting RID OF FEINT
No! I refuse to stop dooming and clearly they said they are looking for alternatives to Feint but not confirmed feint is not going to be used 😛
“Expect”
More Blizz lies, obviously
wintry dew
Mister doomer. xD
gleaming pawn
Some great things in today’s notes. Frustrating we still won’t have Deathstalker to doom over for weeks but core talent changes are very nice so far
astral snow
Rogue dead in TWW!?
surreal barn
Assa has two vanishes 🥹
gleaming pawn
Super dead!
wintry dew
Assa has two vanishes 🥹
afaik all specs do
halcyon timber
Im digging the new tools
gleaming pawn
Assa has two vanishes 🥹
To be fair, everyone does. But yes
gleaming pawn
Cut to the chase minimizing SnD bullshit is nice, and the best we will ever get for it being removed
gleaming pawn
It’s going to make Ace/Crackshot windows feel worse, but yeah less buttons complexity is nice
gleaming pawn
Ya, outlaw has been hard dooming these changes and it’s funny to me
stoic spruce
I think there's a chance we're not forced into a build
I can't wait
True and real
1 for output, the other for survival ig
That may have been the point tbh
gleaming pawn
Dance was not reduced by CDR where vanish was and you would have two vanish windows during a dance CD. Now you’ll have two dance charges getting reduced by CDR for more subterfuge time
And good RtB RNG will mean even more
stoic spruce
That's omega-hmmm
safe turret
unlikely
gleaming pawn
If 1 charge is on CD then it should be reduced by restless blades
safe turret
dont think any cdr works like that, only on the currently reducing charge
gleaming pawn
Even if it doesn’t, you blow both charges back to back like you do with vanish and dance now
Get vanish back faster
And it’s the same
It will depend on how the work it, because if the cdr doesn’t reduce both then yes it’s a huge nerf and Outlaw will riot even more than they already are
And if it was that much of a gameplay change, they would have noted it or changed pieces of the build that require high subterfuge uptime
They would effectively be gutting outlaw and the spec wouldn’t even work
Like the CTO change read as “you’ll have more stealth to proc this so we’re reducing its chance”
safe turret
important to note we are even more reliant on uptime and combo point spending moving to double vanish as well, even in pve apparently its a loss of stealth window where you have max uptime
so in pvp it should be considerably more of a stealth stance loss
stoic spruce
Maybe we're looking at a world where we don't play around stealth windows as much
Does it happen with feint?
Yeah
Idk if anything recharges both charges of an ability at a time
safe turret
pretty much doesn't make sense on things you generally dont want to hold off on using
and certainly not on anything over 30sec recharge
halcyon timber
It would fill the first charge, aint no way it is going to do both.
well, individuals ahve expressed that they wanted different playstyles and that is fine
safe turret
It feels so good rotationally to me though, a world where outlaw just sinister strike/ambushes and dispatches over and over sounds so boring
halcyon timber
yeah variation is nice , same time i'm a simple man
stoic spruce
Kinda upset they moved Killing Spree instead of making it better
halcyon timber
makes sense man
where did they move you guys stuff to?
I'm happy with the class tree stuff and us Subtlety rogue's stuff.
safe turret
not really looks to be we would still get the same talents/play the same things
maybe lose count the odds which got sort of nerfed
stoic spruce
Buffed
safe turret
base buff, bonus chance nerfed
safe turret
think its just a flat 10% chance now, no bonus
safe turret
nope
safe turret
they are trying to push (force) outlaw to gear more mastery/haste it seems
imagine they hate versa stacking as far as pve goes
stoic spruce
Are the new trees on wowhead?
surreal barn
No more acrobatic cheese
halcyon timber
good
surreal barn
The mages are gonna love that one
halcyon timber
mages can get bent, they received more toys too.
how long till gravity lapse gets put in the class tree b/c frost mage wigs out is the real question
Acro should have just gone back to outlaw if anything and left it out of us other rogue's stuff.
same time, if their dev note about melee ranges is accurate then so be it.
quaint cedar
100% agreed with this. I love crackshot too but it sucks that so much of our damage is tied to this one mechanic. We see now with the pvp nerfs that even the slightest little nerf to anything related to ace or crackshot really cripples our spec.
Maybe it's a good thing we're moving some damage back to the "main" kit.
jolly sierra
u guys always speak about crackshot and how good it is lol
quaint cedar
I must say though, getting real tired of my spec having huge playstyle changing reworks every other patch...
stoic spruce
yeah its rough
quaint cedar
u guys always speak about crackshot and how good it is lol
It's really fun (at least most of us think so) but it occupies like a quarter of our damage by itself
gleaming pawn
Ace/Crackshot is fun when you get procs, and awful dog ass when you don’t
Which is the RNG of outlaw in a nutshell
jolly sierra
damn, for a passive its a lot
jolly sierra
So yeah, moving away from that a little might make us less RNG
tbh i hated a lot fatebound tree from assa POV
basically magnified the RNG aspect from outlaw
quaint cedar
Imagine a quarter of your damage being tied to RNG procs during tiny 6 sec stealth windows.
That's outlaw right now
jolly sierra
OOF
wintry dew
Mage, they said they are looking into the Rogue trees, and plan to move stuff around and such
jolly sierra
im unlucky af so
stoic spruce
the button working at all was also rng
jolly sierra
Mage, they said they are looking into the Rogue trees, and plan to move stuff ar...
the basic one?
wintry dew
Both
jolly sierra
interesting
quaint cedar
Yeah fatebounds seems like shit for assa, but decent for outlaw
jolly sierra
wonder which thing will be removed/swapped
jolly sierra
Yeah fatebounds seems like shit for assa, but decent for outlaw
yeah i was thinking that
jolly sierra
yee
jolly sierra
https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/319990965337063425/1238264645949...
i wanna see what they will do
wintry dew
Same. It's nice to know they actually are looking into it and letting us know about it
Did you see the bone spike becoming a passive?
halcyon timber
prob some cool shit but don't set unreasonable expectations like the doomers upstairs usually do
stoic spruce
I miss the chonky pistol shots so I'm hoping that gameplay comes back
wintry dew
Assatww is chilling
jolly sierra
Did you see the bone spike becoming a passive?
WHAT
jolly sierra
thought they werent updating it yet
halcyon timber
yeah rupture activating it, pretty cool
jolly sierra
as i just read it
stoic spruce
maybe one day they can get rid of ER
thorn pond
Hi guys ! I didn’t follow tuning for some time now and sub feels very weak so far (honor set mostly and a few conquest/crafted gear but no tier set for now) with the Sepsis/Brew/Macabre build, is the spec still gutted since s3 ?
halcyon timber
reminds me of a torghast power that was good.
was some rupture activated one , can't remember though
jolly sierra
reminds me of a torghast power that was good.
shadowstrike or sinister strike tho
wintry dew
as i just read it
halcyon timber
I did like red ink too
halcyon timber
shadowheart did feel good that small 3% adds up esp with leeching
halcyon timber
get a pack of darts and smoke up walking home while reading looking like this
gleaming pawn
Acro is going to feel so so bad, but everything else injects some hope for TWw
jolly sierra
That's perfect to catch up
basically subtetfuge will turn into the bootleg shadow dance
jolly sierra
sounds like we will spam rupture for combo points lol
wintry dew
All 3 specs
wintry dew
While you guys pre-theorycraft, imma headbut my pillow. Cheers!
jolly sierra
cya guy ty for the update
stoic spruce
personally having a hard time building an outlaw build atm
paper sable
how should outlaw try to win 2v2 arena? Is it a burst spec, a rot spec, or what?
jolly sierra
si
steel scarab
Acrobatic Strikes is the only talent where, no matter what build or content I'm playing, I'm excited to take that
So of course Blizzard is like "lol let's make this worse"
gritty heart
guys anyone have good macro for assasination burst cds
quaint cedar
So of course Blizzard is like "lol let's make this worse"
We got fun detected
Blizzard hates it when rogues have fun things
tawdry lodge
how to fit slice and dice into assassin opener?
grave basin
muh rating
gleaming pawn
how to fit slice and dice into assassin opener?
just use it after you open, either before or after you get rupture up. You're not killing anyone in the opener so it doesn't matter
pliant mauve
Jesus. I’m pretty much hard stuck at 2100 on my main assa rogue. Decided to gear my other assa rogue to clear my mind and I’m getting absolutely farmed at 1500. It’s actually kind of crazy how much worse this feels. It’s a goddamn meat grinder and I’m getting flamed by every healer.
tawny kestrel
Jesus. I’m pretty much hard stuck at 2100 on my main assa rogue. Decided to gear...
just gotta fix your defensive play then
pliant mauve
I mean I’m chilling in lobbies higher than this but I guess I don’t really get attacked with such tunnel vision on my main. I guess it’s good practice.
tawny kestrel
I mean I’m chilling in lobbies higher than this but I guess I don’t really get a...
to be fair, lower lobbies u just have to try to win fast
cus healers will be awful
and assa gets better if ur healer is better
cus u are a bit squishy
pliant mauve
I don’t think I’ve ever felt as squishy as I do now lol but yeah that’s good a point.
outer sky
I don’t think I’ve ever felt as squishy as I do now lol but yeah that’s good a p...
Shadowlands was so much worse. You'd just die in a half DRd leg sweep
steel scarab
I fucking hate that I've lost like 3 matches tonight solely because I didn't have QUITE enough mastery
steel scarab
Adding a gearing minigame to ranked, rated arena is fine, but when they make it so that if you make a bad gearing decision, you are completely fucked
That is just horrendous design
Because then you are basically completely fucked and behind the curve until conquest uncaps
outer sky
Does sudden demise take into account active mitigation?
tawny kestrel
Adding a gearing minigame to ranked, rated arena is fine, but when they make it ...
i mean there’s most likely other factors as well, can’t just cope with it being a gear issue
harsh steppe
why exactly is my rotation shadowblades > cheap shot/kidney > then my buffs macro (shadow dance, symbols of death, & trinket)?
what's the harm in having SB in my main macro? or why can't i do all buffs first and then stun?
wintry dew
Bcs
You'll probably be in stealth on your go
You don't need dance on the first global of your go
harsh steppe
ohh because that global would waste a second of my buffs?
wintry dew
Pretty much
If you are stunning first, there's not need to stun with all cds, it deals no dmg
Also
SB gives you a full cp bar
On any builder
harsh steppe
ahh so even if i'm not in stealth, i would just cap out on CP, kidney, then buffs > rotation etc
SB doesn't give me full cp part of my build ig
wintry dew
I'd say yes, I'm speaking from a logic angle and not an S3/S4 3 experience angle.
If your enemy sees you pop cds and then stun they will have more globals to react
harsh steppe
that makes perfect sense, tysm!
last jasper
On any builder you press afterwards?
Probably a bug. I noticed this yesterday. Sometimes cs gives 1 cp instead of full.
wintry dew
But I'm not crazy right?
It should give full cp
last jasper
Yea it should. You are not crazy. You get full cp during sb with a builder
harsh steppe
oh sorry i thought you meant just sb. yes i use sb then cheap shot to get full cp
thank yall so much ❤️
tranquil jay
Can someone explain this bug? i relogged but i still have 0 AP 😄
wintry dew
Might be a visual bug
tranquil jay
As you can see details attached its prob not, + dummy hp not moving or?
wanton breach
finally assassination nerfed the right way, just make it do no damage at all 
chrome schooner
So uh
Apparently they remove Dance from the class tree in TWW and also add a talent that gives leech in stealth ... ?
Idk if the guy who has a hand in Rogue dev still comes around
But leech in stealth when Shadow Dance is removed makes very very little sense
surreal barn
Yeah I tried making a build last night
Seems silly
Maybe deathstalker will make it better idk
untold remnant
We got it on outlaw after the nerfs, let's goo 😄
untold remnant
But leech *in stealth* when Shadow Dance is removed makes very very little sense
Only for subtlety then
stoic spruce
We got it on outlaw after the nerfs, let's goo 😄
lets gooooooo
surreal barn
Prob works in the 6 sec subterfuge windows as well
wintry dew
Apparently they remove Dance from the class tree in TWW and also add a talent th...
I also cringed at that.
We do have 2 vanish charges and 6sec subterfurge tho, but what's the point of leech during... Around 20/30secs of the fight?
stoic spruce
any lets goers in chat?
halcyon timber
Prob works in the 6 sec subterfuge windows as well
Tested it, doesn’t apply to subterfuge. Only leeching psn will cover that.
stoic spruce
dude killing spree kills me so much its insane
halcyon timber
Meh felt fine when bleeding stuff up with assass stuff . Definitely chunk healed combining all the other tools
stoic spruce
teleported me directly into boss mechanic
I know this is pvp channel but I just like yall
halcyon timber
Its cool, we know popo is un poco loco
surreal barn
Dance healed quite a bit
halcyon timber
Great ill diablo song btw
stoic spruce
Its cool, we know popo is un poco loco
teehee
halcyon timber
Its cool, im a rage monkey too. Good ol army .
stoic spruce
Airforce
halcyon timber
Yeh boy
twin burrow
We got it on outlaw after the nerfs, let's goo 😄
You're the best. Aroundddd. Nerfs will never bring you downnn 🎵🎶
stoic spruce
we love gamers reaching goals despite the odds
stoic spruce
You're the best. Aroundddd. Nerfs will never bring you downnn 🎵🎶
I messed up
I meant to turn my boots into tier
but they werent the right boots
quaint cedar
We got it on outlaw after the nerfs, let's goo 😄
Good shit 👍
quaint cedar
"Dagger"
Bro that shit is huge
stoic spruce
I should like
get to 1600 rq so I can get 3pc
however that would require me to play solo shuffle so it wouldnt be "rq"
vital socket
isnt this dagger so cool?
What is that
vital socket
Ah horde only
stoic spruce
yeahhh
last jasper
shadowlands pre-patch
Looks like a bfa season 2
stoic spruce
its the same model and very similar shade
looks closer to the warfront one
they didnt go crazy with the colors unfort
heroic I think
last jasper
I recall they were more like a sword on my undead rogue
jolly sierra
isnt this dagger so cool?
that is not soul eater
steel scarab
@tawny kestrel absolutely true, but, in 3 separate rounds, when I had a target at 3% or less HP when my teammate died
Then obviously gear would've changed the outcome lol
stoic spruce
at 3%?
dapper chasm
Sounds like you let your bro die to do some dmgs, bro
stoic spruce
yeah I dont think that makes the point you think it does lol
steel scarab
Each of them were deep dampening games
dapper chasm
I'm out there as Sub controlling the PLANET
stoic spruce
bros out of his GOURD with CCs rn
dapper chasm
The only issue I have is my partner complaining it's "too big" and "painful"
steel scarab
Oof
dapper chasm
You just gotta go slow at the start before bursting, np
steel scarab
dapper chasm
Subtlety is the clear best spec, but people are more interested in having larger numbers on their loss screens
I'm out there living life
stoic spruce
what are these words on my screen
stoic spruce
get OUT of my discord!
stoic spruce
That funny
dapper chasm
Combat rogues pulling their noses away from the glue for a second to type arse gravy on discord
stoic spruce
Y'know I sailed the seven seas and no one knew your name. Hm, now thats funny.
dapper chasm
Was I in the seven seas? Who knows, cos I'm fucking SUBTLE ABOUT IT
dapper chasm
Bro, I had you CC'd before you came in the room
Once my 2 min burst window lines up, you're so fucked
stoic spruce
I cant hear you over the sound of me evading literally everything
stoic spruce
because I SENT YOU THERE
dapper chasm
I'm the guy in the chair for the guy in the chair
dapper chasm
Sorry for not responding, bro, i was too busy controlling the arena
stoic spruce
Its okay, I was too busy winning
and plundering these Ws
shootin hos in the FACE
making room for a THIRD EYE
dapper chasm
No, no, brother, you can assume I won
stoic spruce
you know what they say when you assume...
stoic spruce
buddy no one in the Gladiator's Refuge even knows you
stoic spruce
well I plundered the materials and sold them to your people
potent pivot
Idk if the guy who has a hand in Rogue dev still comes around
he does, but i'm kinda doubtful he ever looks in this channel
stoic spruce
thgis hurts to look at ngl
wintry dew
Hello trickz, sorry for using your name yesterday
wintry dew
It was pretty fun tho
stoic spruce
a true rogue wouldnt be sorry js
wintry dew
jolly sierra
what are these words on my screen right now
best weps in game. u are watching the color shift
stoic spruce
I literally have the best mog in the game right now
like
????
dont even come at me with that
dont EVEN
dapper chasm
Look, all I'm saying is if you only knew that the rogue has a micropenis, and a Sub Chad was standing next to a combat wombat, who you picking to have the shlong, and who the wrong?
Don't even answer that
dapper chasm
I typed with one hand on a second screen WHILE WINNING SHUFFLE
halcyon timber
he does, but i'm kinda doubtful he ever looks in this channel
Not much look at in the other channel besides ridiculous ideas hijacking our class and a giant boys club of nonsense. Uncool how a few of us got dismissed constantly over there too.
jolly sierra
nah clearly this wep is better
halcyon timber
Weapon is cool though for sure
stoic spruce
nah clearly this wep is better
bro that is poop from a butt. Get that off my screen.
there are ladies here
jolly sierra
bro that is poop from a butt. Get that off my screen.
nah ur wep looks like a fkn giant shaver rather like a dagger
last jasper
I wish they’d gave us dead fish from plunderstorm as a dagger
stoic spruce
aww is someone not stwong enough to hold a knife bigger den a butter knife? :c
last jasper
I would use it on my sub. All the time
jolly sierra
if u wanna go like that pick a sword
last jasper
if u wanna go like that pick a sword
Need double daggers rn@
stoic spruce
bro thinks this'll hurt me lol
dapper chasm
Did you guys hear that the combat rogues want to be called "Outlaw" now? That's like your friend Keith wanting to be called "Clint"
Always be Keith to me
jolly sierra
bro thinks this'll hurt me lol
what is that?
stoic spruce
bro wishes
jolly sierra
ye bro wishes
stoic spruce
your knife has stink lines bro sorry
potent pivot
Not much look at in the other channel besides ridiculous ideas hijacking our cla...
Believe it or not when it comes down to it, for pve this community has one of, if not the best theory crafting in the game
jolly sierra
your knife has stink lines bro sorry
how i know ur knife has not a rotten odor?
if is carried by a mummy
stoic spruce
my knives make clean cuts
potent pivot
But yeah generally the pve vs pvp perception and attitude of players in this game is terrible
stoic spruce
nah I smell like roses
jolly sierra
nuh uh
halcyon timber
Believe it or not when it comes down to it, for pve this community has one of, i...
Just a bunch of cultists who dismiss others. Unacceptable
potent pivot
We play a “mini game” within a game
stoic spruce
literally a rose in my mouf
potent pivot
As if raid and m+ are not also mini games
halcyon timber
Should be a lot of playstyles and a lot of cool stuff
stoic spruce
what a handsome fella
steel scarab
Just because they know how to crunch numbers doesn't mean they are capable of speaking to people in a civilized manner
halcyon timber
Yet it is never good enough for the zealots
steel scarab
The other channel is basically cancer
jolly sierra
literally a rose in my mouf
is as rotten as ur skin
stoic spruce
is as rotten as ur skin
youre covered in fleas. gg
jolly sierra
youre covered in fleas. gg
still better than having rot in my skin and decaying at same time
potent pivot
Yet it is never good enough for the zealots
Yeah I don’t really get why people get so upset over class changes, especially when next expac is still in alpha
But tbf I feel pvp is overall neglected badly
So I’m not really happy with the state of the game either way
stoic spruce
still better than having rot in my skin and decaying at same time
nuh uh
I got a rose
so idk what youre talking about
halcyon timber
Yeah I don’t really get why people get so upset over class changes, especially w...
Because it aint what they want and they want silly crap to hijack the class . More of the past has been integrated instead of disregarded. Realz and whoever else does a damn good job at combining it all.
jolly sierra
I got a rose
its black so its decaying
stoic spruce
oh right. The stem is a vibrant green which means its decaying. Riiiight.