pvp

[waxen meteor]

Easy to play but hard to get a team invitation

[grave basin]

😔

[waxen meteor]

Espxxially if you are just doing +0

Easy to do

[grave basin]

imagine the mogs i could get with those two tokens

unreal

[wintry dew]

atleast 2 items

which is huge

[grave basin]

im slowly gearing up 5 toons to LFR ilvl

so i can have token mules to run through each week

need to atleast get the ashkandur x4 tints

and the elemental axes

[waxen meteor]

Yeah 10 alts season lol

[jolly sierra]

how tf u get big crests in pvp?

ended w 2k1 in SS but no clue

only whelping crests

bruh

[wintry dew]

the higher you go, the better the crests

[jolly sierra]

nono

false

false

[harsh steppe]

been doing mythics for mine

[waxen meteor]

It’s real

[jolly sierra]

only got crappy whelping crests

in all my road

[wintry dew]

aspects are at either 2.1 + or 2.4 +

[grave basin]

aspects are 2.1

[jolly sierra]

ye but neither wyrm ones

[wintry dew]

then 1.8 - 2.1 should be wyrms

[jolly sierra]

in like 1k9+ got whelping

wait im a dumbass

look

they doesnt drop from chests

that is the reason

[harsh steppe]

lmaooo

[grave basin]

you get them after the shuffle round

not from the thing in your bag

[jolly sierra]

ye

[wintry dew]

you have them riight there

[jolly sierra]

leave me alone

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[wintry dew]

don't you REEEEEEEEEEE at me

[grave basin]

the diurna's chosen ring is so good

[jolly sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/ree-pepe-triggered-angry-ahhhh-gif-13627544

[grave basin]

sv/ele sham/fire mage/dh all getting it

and feral

[jolly sierra]

seems like i will push a little more in pvp today

to get some crests

[grave basin]

bicmex showed one of his details with swapxy's ring doing almost 6% of his dam

one of his games it did 1million dam

just the ring

[jolly sierra]

oof

what about the proc ring from diurna?

the shield one?

absorbs like 70k per proc and has mastery

a chunk

[grave basin]

idk about that, i dont think many people have both

at this point

cause you need 2 tokens for each ring

[wintry dew]

wait until DHs have both

[jolly sierra]

well i can get the crests and wait tho

[grave basin]

just push elite

and play

youll farm tokens passively

crests

[jolly sierra]

yeah ill push tho

before the reset in EU

[waxen meteor]

Feral? How

For those of you want to farm crest from pvp..

I really don’t think it’s a good idea

[surreal barn]

Any way we can reliably proc it?

[waxen meteor]

For example one ring (the 535 one) might require 90 crest that’s like 90 wins…

And other crests

[wintry dew]

or around 6 m+6 runs in time

[grave basin]

it procs off fire dam

which your 4pc provides

the smoldering shit when they feral frenzy

[grave basin]

no it's completely rng

just do fire dam and it procs

if your class has no way of doing fire dam then it wont proc

[wintry dew]

there are ways

just bad ones

[grave basin]

well yea

[wintry dew]

shadowflame Emb

[jolly sierra]

are those 1 per win?

huh

1 crest per round?

[restive hemlock]

1 per round over 2.1 iirc

[surreal barn]

Win the round get a crest

[jolly sierra]

gotcha

[waxen meteor]

Yeah

So it’s quite a bit of farming time

And for lower crest you surly wants to do it with lower myth

[jolly sierra]

joined a match at 2k1 MMR

and the fucker

left

as healer after 3 in a row

bruh

[proud folio]

could it be worth taking shadowflame embellishment over silken lining?

[surreal barn]

fiery enchant’s time to shine

Would be so funny if that is new meta

[harsh steppe]

time to reroll to healer mage

[proud folio]

or farm this guy from m+

[surreal barn]

And enchant with fiery

[proud folio]

i think ret/war will also get the ring because Ashkandur has a fire proc as well

[wintry dew]

The amount of procs on ashk isn't low?

[proud folio]

still probably worth it because the ring has a fuck load of vers

so stats wise youre not losing much

[waxen meteor]

The two rings are great for ret

Also even without fire it can be good for us the. 435 shield one

It’s 1660 mastery ish by itself

Even without fire trigger it can be a good item for us

[proud folio]

very true

btw what are the chances outlaw turns into a vers/mastery spec instead of crit/vers after they gutted it?

[surreal barn]

Flaring cowl could proc it

What is uptime on it

I can craft it to see

[quaint cedar]

I think pretty likely, but guess we'll know more soon. I believe we will still want crit, but not as much as before

Sustain damage is fairly unaffected by the nerf, just burst that got gutted. Even though we barely had any to begin with....

[shell wigeon]

What spec seems to be best for pvp at the moment?

[harsh steppe]

sin

[shell wigeon]

yeah, i was play sub and the dmg just wasnt there

[harsh steppe]

yeah we the bottom spec 🏧

https://tenor.com/view/theoden-we-will-return-this-is-not-a-defeat-gamling-theoden-king-gif-22723646

[waxen meteor]

wil we

[harsh steppe]

wow [NA] up now

[gleaming pawn]

Never, Blizzard has spoken 🙂

[safe turret]

Honestly not really feeling the combo point change of ace, do notice a lower proc rate, esp chain proc situations, and def lower damage now. Doesn't feel as bad as I thought it would initially at least

[harsh steppe]

should i just go for sockets since i have my tier & the conq cap is so high?

[wintry dew]

And you have shoulders already?

[harsh steppe]

i have 2 pieces already yes

[wintry dew]

if those shoulders suck, its a clear week of 2 sockets

[harsh steppe]

ok tysm

[dusky quartz]

hey are the new assa garrote changes for assa a buff or a nerf ? xd

[jolly sierra]

nerf

10%

[dapper chasm]

I took a long break so I'm a bit confused, we have access to all the tier sets of this xpac on a rolling raid cycle now?

I tried some arena and got an awakened mastery mark or something, should I save that for a different tier set?

[safe turret]

There is only one tier set this season, you can see it in the itemset tab by pressing shift J and going to item sets ingame

[dapper chasm]

Are people running the set? Only chest and legs seem decent statwise

[safe turret]

depends on spec

outlaw still runs 4pc

[dapper chasm]

No, no, I am a man

Sub

[wintry dew]

Meanwhile you're 10% hotter

[gleaming pawn]

[jolly sierra]

always

[harsh steppe]

sub is 2 set

[dapper chasm]

Thanks

I think it's great that we allow combat rogues to speak now - but wanted to hear from a real player

[harsh steppe]

chest & legs ideally

[dapper chasm]

How do I get the second piece as a pvp player?

[harsh steppe]

catalyst or vault

[dapper chasm]

My man

[quaint cedar]

When Ace procs are you just pressing BTE again or are you building first? Was wondering what the correct way would be post nerf

[jolly sierra]

6-0 and this is the result

im leaving this for now and pushing for end season

later

[safe turret]

rarely finding myself landing on 4 like I thought I would, still land on 5-6 on most procs. I assume on 4 you would prob want to builder again but not sure. Only thing I notice besides the lower damage is getting chain procs feels much rarer now

and going a lot more subterfuge windows with only 1-0 procs

like I just got two procs atm and both put me at 6 combo points

[quaint cedar]

I wonder how you can be be landing at 6?

Shouldn't be possible post nerf right?

[safe turret]

I didn't think so, figured 5 was cap with the extra

though

I did have ace procs that landed me at 7 in the past pre nerf

[quaint cedar]

Hmm. Strange

So how many procs you getting on average per stealth window?

[safe turret]

I thought for a bit the ace nerf wasn't in but you can 100% tell its proccing less

like 3ish on good windows, maybe 4 on a really good window, dont' think i've had a single chain proc spam like I did pre nerf yet

so far its the proc rate reduction + dmg reduction that I notice the most

[quaint cedar]

That's sad. At least a little better than I thought though

[safe turret]

doesn't "FEEL" as bad as I thought it was going to

but def weaker

[quaint cedar]

How big of a damage drop you think?

[safe turret]

as far as dummy numbers ago atm like 140-150kish

with procs up

sub 100k without procs

for between the eyes not the dispatch added with it

[quaint cedar]

So that's what the BTEs are hitting for?

[safe turret]

yeah

like not that big of a drop dmg wise from what I can see on the ability itself

just the proc rate seems to be what you feel the most

just not chain proccing it

[quaint cedar]

Ok. So our burst is definitely worse but doesn't seem like early S2 levels of bad. Like we'll still be able to kill stuff eventually

Not chain proccing is depressing though. That was the best part of the rework imo

[dapper chasm]

2-set as sub hits hard, but it aint 70% - is it bugged or something?

[quaint cedar]

Gone because of some clueless change for no fucking reason

[fading blade]

so far outlaw feels like a wet noodle and adding an ambush after proc feels weird, sin just no more 30%-0 bane

[quaint cedar]

Maybe if everyone quits outlaw then they will revert the Ace nerf

[safe turret]

bet its a nerf that sticks around even in TWW lol

[dapper chasm]

Is solo shuffle a respected PvP mode?

Back in my day only 2s and 3s was real and the rank 1 5s player would be laughed at unless they said they did it ironically

But now there is rated bgs, solo shuffle, and whatever the hell brawl is

[jolly sierra]

yes

ppl is crazy there and u have a disgusting amount of mglads and r1

at 2k MMR

[dapper chasm]

Don't worry, I was forged in the fiery crucible of WotLK PvP

I have seen things you people wouldn't believe

[jolly sierra]

ive seen a rog w stoner react speed lit countering me at milsecond

in this season

[dapper chasm]

I was vanishing death coil before it was cool

I don't see how being 20 years older or a father of 2 will hurt me at all

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-homer-simpson-young-homer-mirror-past-and-present-gif-17602774

[jolly sierra]

the mafia is still there

im reopening the ticket

[surreal barn]

Servers up. Let’s do this

[jolly sierra]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNv2RHR62Rs

[fading blade]

sin is the same in SS just no kings cheese unless they let you for free

[outer sky]

anyone else's arena LFG page look like this??

[quaint cedar]

Yeah watching nahj and he says it's broken for him too

[jolly sierra]

so, lets pick blindside?

[safe turret]

Almost feels like you have to treat 4cp ace procs as non procs now, only feels like old proc playstyle when you chain 5-6 cp procs which are still possible but less frequent. maybe not worth using a builder on a 4cp proc not sure

[surreal barn]

Naw I think no energy shiv is quite nice

[harsh steppe]

fuck games be sweaty af today

https://tenor.com/view/sweats-gif-25346666

[halcyon timber]

Still flagged as 20% in pvp. Nothing crazy unless we slap under geared people like this dude in the rift with 350k life picking fights with people. It was like a hobo fight in a wafflehouse.

[dapper chasm]

You gotta pick fights for the player you want to be, not the player you are

[halcyon timber]

Ha well buddy definitely got gang effed a lot

[dapper chasm]

Yeah, the trick is to kill them first

[halcyon timber]

Reminded me of kung pao / kung pow (can’t remember the name) enter the fist. Wang po or whatever his name was “im bleeding, making me the victor “ line

[dapper chasm]

Wimp Lo, man

Get it right

They trained him wrong - as a joke

[halcyon timber]

Been like 5000 years i can’t remember sheet

Yeah was funny af

Chosen oneeee HGWAHHHH!

Great movie

[stoic spruce]

How's outlaw

[fading blade]

hated the feel

healed the enemy team

[quaint cedar]

I watched nahj play. He was doing a bit of weeklies and wpvp because lfg is bugged. Ace nerf looked pretty bad. He'd go several stealth windows in a row without a proc

Sometimes he'd get a few but they don't really chain anymore

Seems really bad to me

Need to see actual arena games though

They took all the fun out of it

[inner tartan]

did they nerf outlaw i feel weaker xdd

[quaint cedar]

Yeah outlaw got shit on

[inner tartan]

were is the nerf list lmfaooo it feels so bad rn

[stoic spruce]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/fix-lfg-by-turning-on-mature-language-filter-in-patch-10-2-7-339281?webhook

Once I'm done with my work week, I'll do some thorough testing

I lowkey hope we're back to HO/Killing Spree with the new killing spree

[quaint cedar]

Yeah, let us know what you find

Btw why you say back to HO? We're using HO right now, unless you mean something different by that?

[inner tartan]

i always play ho in pvp and pve

[white gazelle]

Was the assa nerfs heavy?

[stoic spruce]

No I meant HO/KS as the build. My b

Yeah HO is goated

[quaint cedar]

So what is this build? Just HO and KS together? Because you can already do that now. I ran it for awhile before dropping KS for CTO

[stoic spruce]

HO/KS without crackshot I mean. Put the talent point elsewhere. Maybe a qol talent idk

Idk what qol talent lol.

Just an idea. Literally at work for the next 11 hours so I'm just spitballing

[quaint cedar]

Ohhh gotcha

Yeah no way that's the play lol

Maybe as a meme but not for real

We get too much value out of crackshot. All our CDR was nerfed to account for the BTE spam

[stoic spruce]

It is still 2 finishers in one huh?

Hmmm

Dear Realz

What the hey :(

Sincerely,
Popo

[safe turret]

more than likely there isn't going to be a new better build and outlaw just has to suffer with this nerfed version, spec built entirely around crackshot existing now

[fading blade]

outlaw feels disgusting

[stoic spruce]

At least it's a bit less spammy

Gotta B+

[quaint cedar]

Yeah best we can hope for is

1. Nerf gets reverted, maybe after AWC ends
2. Pvp modifiers get reset when TWW releases
3. TWW gives us another viable build that doesn't depend on crackshot so we can avoid the nerf

Really not a comfortable spot to be in. Future of outlaw isn't looking good right now.

What a shame too. This was the most fun version of outlaw ever imo

And now it's been butchered

[stoic spruce]

You know what's funny?

I feel the opposite

But the tier tho

Chefs kiss

[worthy crag]

isnt outlaw still miles away from being "butchered"?

[stoic spruce]

I honestly think I hold resentment because you HAVE to talent into crackshot. No ifs ands or buts

[stoic spruce]

Negative

In pve, yes

But the spec works different in pvp now

[safe turret]

was really zero reason for them not to just hit it with dmg% nerfs only, maybe restless blades effectiveness in pvp combat if they really wanted to

messing with ace was just a fuck you to the players

should be noted the ace combo point change isn't applied on the pvp dummy

[stoic spruce]

The jump from 6 to 5 CPs is def felt

[safe turret]

but yeah you can still get 5-6 cp resets

the problem is when it mixes in 4cp procs with them

it just feels like you didn't even get a proc

just feels extra clunky, that good spammy rng feeling gone

[quaint cedar]

I'm just going to miss the BTE resets so much. When you would get lucky and chain them all together, it was so satisfying

@drowsy oar you think outlaw is still better than beginning of S2, before the damage buffs? That and SL S1 were the worst versions of outlaw I've ever played

Also you said you're playing the same, so you just spend at 5 or 6 when you get an ace proc?

I can't play until tomorrow, or maybe a few days idk. Trying to access the damage lol

And figure out if I need to change gear or anything

[safe turret]

I've gotten quite a few 4cp ace procs

you cant on dummy, you will on players

I 100% have

never start, only on 4cp procs

[stoic spruce]

You can tell me dk is getting a rework

[worthy crag]

queued in RSS as a survival hunter vs windwalker and dh lobby

their fists of fury one tick hits as hard as my stacked mongoose bite lmao

[quaint cedar]

Lopes, thanks for responding. Happy to hear it's better than beginning of S2. I don't think I can deal with that again lol. Getting 2100 back then before the buffs was so painful that it made me quit for the rest of the season and even a good chunk of S3 as well

[stoic spruce]

Luckily there's no real reason to push this season

[grave basin]

Kinda weird comparison since you can bomb/sting/chakrams/kill shot/ KC/ explo shot from ranged sir

While they have to be in melee to fist

[worthy crag]

but was i talking about those abilities?

[grave basin]

No but comparing those two is stupid

[worthy crag]

ill screenshot it the next time my bomb sting and kc can hit that hard

[grave basin]

Rsk crits for 400k why don't you compare that ?

[worthy crag]

I could

which would only further prove how bonkers ww is? lol

[grave basin]

Ww is definitely a bit overtuned but comparing individual abilities is kinda pointless

It's more of their overall kit of 3 defensives and map crossing mobility

[worthy crag]

I'm just poking fun at their stupidity using one example

ur deep diving into it going on a full disection of logic

ww has dogshit defensives

[grave basin]

Lol

[worthy crag]

?

[steel scarab]

How much worse does assassination feel in arena after our miserable nerfs

[safe turret]

you wont notice it

[gleaming pawn]

KB nerf is noticable, but not unplayable

have to make sure you play for maximizing the final ticks more

[surreal barn]

Very noticeable

I hate the garrote nerf lol

[gleaming pawn]

yeah garrote is awful, 10% on every garrote is bs

if we could garrote one target, fine. But losing it on everyone is dumb

I also did a blitz earlier for the daily win

I had 25m, and 10 KBs. MM hunter had 1 KB and 40m damage

[steel scarab]

😭

[gleaming pawn]

good balancing Blizz

[steel scarab]

Sounds like cancer

[gleaming pawn]

it very much is

also fun fact for anyone running GladiusEx, it's broken with this update

and who knows when it will be fixed because no one actively maintains the arena frame addons

[outer sky]

Did we get nerfed?

Arena feels like shit

[steel scarab]

If it's as bad as you guys say I'm gonna unsub until they fix this shit

[gleaming pawn]

it's still playable, it just requires you to out play and outskill the balls out of your enemies

[outer sky]

Kingsbane instant damage reduced by 32% in PvP combat (was 20%).
Kingsbane damage over time reduced by 8% in PvP combat (was 20%).
Improved Garrote damage bonus now reduced to 20% in PvP combat (was 30%).

It looks like assass got buffed?

[steel scarab]

I mean, like, think about it this way. I can understand maybe nerfing Kingsbane's initial hit to incentivize us to use it more like a scary DOT where it has to tick a bit to hit hard. Okay. I get it.

Speaking theoretically here:

The problem with this is, Kingsbane requires a lot of setup. Which means you need to fully cross CC the healer before you apply KB now, and THEN you apply Kingsbane AND you can't go back to the healer, you need uninterrupted melee uptime on your target without being peeled for it to hit hard, you need your Envenom self buff, you need Slice and Dice up, you need Shadow Dance running, and you need your opponent below 30% to really hurt them.

Oh and

Btw let's also nerf assassination's most damaging ability, Garrote, by another 10% just to make it so it's THAT much harder to actually get your opponent below 30%. In a spec that isn't well represented on any competitive level.

[grave basin]

Dont need to unsub buddy

[steel scarab]

Can a dev please explain the rationale

[fallen scaffold]

How is that a buff

Its -10% to garrote dmg and -12% to burst kings dmg

[steel scarab]

And +? to the damage over time portion of it

[fallen scaffold]

Big whoop

[steel scarab]

But it's very clearly a huge net loss

[fallen scaffold]

Game sux

Tbh

[grave basin]

I mean if you unsub every time you get nerfed might as well don't play right

Just play and improve

[steel scarab]

@grave basin I mean I've already hit 2300 and was having a lot of trouble going higher with the spec as it was pre-nerf

[grave basin]

Mechanically we can all play better

[steel scarab]

If the nerf is as big as I think

I'm not getting higher this season

So I can unsub

Feel me?

[grave basin]

TBF this is a throwaway season so I Def feel ya

[fallen scaffold]

We should've all ubsubbed a long time ago let's be real

[fading blade]

unless u play dh

[fallen scaffold]

Hopium and addiction

[steel scarab]

Last season as Assassination was horrendous

I hit 2100 but only barely

[grave basin]

Just get the poop illusion and wait for panda remix

I'm pretty sure that's what a lot of people are doing anyway

[outer sky]

the KB DoT was buffed by 12% if I'm reading correctly

[fallen scaffold]

To offset the nerfs

Not like kb was ticking hard anyway

[outer sky]

We get nerfed like nobody else though. Always have. Plus they hit us really hard all at once. Every other class/spec gets small incremental nerfs if they get nerfed at all. When rogue's get nerfed they go for the juggular

[gleaming pawn]

and we lost 10% on every imp garrote, and 12% off the instant KB damage. How is that a buff?

[steel scarab]

@grave basin I have the poop illusion already

[worthy crag]

some specs just fly under the nerf rader for 19 consecutive patches

[outer sky]

Someone once said "when rogues are having fun, nobody else is." So they nerf us so punish and keep us from being prevalent. Not because we're actually OP but because the player base finds us annoying.

[worthy crag]

Thats kinda most true with warlocks though

90% of rogue can be easily countered with WA imports, ppl are just lazy to set them up

[outer sky]

The player base sees stuns and fears as different though. Damage can break a fear not a stun. They're just as dead either way but if they die in a fear or shortly after, they think they could have done something about it. So it doesn't "feel" as oppressive

[grave basin]

Well you can also dispel a fear

[outer sky]

theyre trying to keep the player base happy, not balance the game

dying while stunned is annoying

rogues kill in stuns

so if there's a lot of us because the class is good, we get raped by the nerf hammer

again not to balance, but to reduce the number of rogues queueing that are ruining everyones fun

[worthy crag]

It kinda is also the class that gets most infested with fotm 1 button macro players when its good

[outer sky]

thats sub rogue

[worthy crag]

the whole class, not just sub

[outer sky]

Nah sub rogue has duel

[worthy crag]

remember sin like Sl s3

[outer sky]

and its the most 1 shotty

[worthy crag]

vanish tick insta kill

or something

vanish vendetta

with a leggo

[grave basin]

Someone is forgetting SL crit leggo sepsis one shot

[worthy crag]

think it was sepsis vendetta vanish

but one thing i'd say is

[grave basin]

Hi guys palumor here

[worthy crag]

ive been asking duel to be removed for years

[outer sky]

Duel is honestly fine. Its already been nerfed. If your dps is getting 100-0d in a duel then you're not ready to be above 1800 anyway

[worthy crag]

but yeah rogue is the one class that clueless people will flock to, to do those cheesy oneshots

and if it doesnt kill their target they fall completely clueless and keyturn for 3 seconds

[outer sky]

like there's 3 people on the team

someones fucking up if thats happening

[worthy crag]

the problem with duel is that its existence is why sub isnt allowed to do damage

so if I had to choose between a cc bot utility spec that does 17 dps on top of having duel

or an actual burst class without duel

i'd choose the latter

and thats how it was before SL

[outer sky]

Sub does good damage with blades

[worthy crag]

nobody played duel in legion

when the talent was introduced

[outer sky]

Duel existed in BFA too

[worthy crag]

nobody played duel in bfa

maybe at s4 more did

[outer sky]

they should have. It wasnt even nerfed in BFA

[worthy crag]

with drest trinket inside duel

[outer sky]

I played it to yeet the healer not to kill though

[red pebble]

Cause BfA sub was garbage

Compared to the god class aka assa

[worthy crag]

Sub was okay by itself, its just the tank trinkets from raids

[outer sky]

But outlaw is not a 1 shot spec anyway so idk why they nerfed it

[halcyon timber]

Because non rogues demanded it on forum propaganda news network

[outer sky]

they nerfed CC across the board by 15% which disproportionately nerfed rogues because we rely on CC

[worthy crag]

but since the days of SL people treat duel like a core identity of sub

when it never was

[outer sky]

and our 1 spec that can stay in and fight

gets nerfed

[tawny kestrel]

most fried thing ive ever heard

[outer sky]

Whats your input Raz? this is Zicore btw

[worthy crag]

sure, thx?

idk why ppl tag to reply and act like they are saying something with 0 substance

[tawny kestrel]

when rogue is good u dont have thousands of ppl rerolling to it like dh and other melee

cus u can still die as rogue

[grave basin]

Id argue that applies to mm hunter the most

[tawny kestrel]

so noobs will still be noobs

[grave basin]

Not rogue

[outer sky]

As outlaw I feel pretty tanky

[grave basin]

If you're using a swifty one shot sequence macro as a rogue you're dead anyway

[worthy crag]

what part of anything I said have to do with people ceasing to be noobs when they flock to fotm rogue

I literally said they will keyturn for 3 seconds if their macro fails

but that macro still enables them to sepsis vendetta vanish

[outer sky]

What is your rationale for our constant nerfs?

[tawny kestrel]

ok my bad then, i assumed it would be rerolling and increasing rating cus rogue is fotm

[tawny kestrel]

outlaw nerfs too much

assa fien

fine*

[worthy crag]

not necessarily increase rating, but there would be a substantial increase of rogue pop in 1400~2100 or w.e

playing double rogue

etc

[outer sky]

Do you think assass > outlaw in arena now?

[tawny kestrel]

no idea, im only playing assa atm anyway

[worthy crag]

this is literally 65% of pikaboo's stream content though and what he teaches people

[outer sky]

If you had to guess, in your multi r1 opinion, what would you suggest someone play in arena?

[worthy crag]

I mean he presses everything manually

[tawny kestrel]

depends what ur friends play

[worthy crag]

but tons of copycats still do it in one macro

the wise opinion would be to let this game go 🥲

[grave basin]

You mean palumor

[worthy crag]

wouldnt know, dont watch him

i mean

i also dont really watch pika but

his stream is mostly 2s at 1750s

[grave basin]

Pika just farms the 1600 ladder for content

[worthy crag]

esp back in the past he never even was live when hes playing main team

yes, oneshotting them exactly

and ppl will turn that into a macro, or at least try to

[grave basin]

I mean back in SL you had back pedaling mm hunters with their double tap kyrian arrow macro

If it didn't kill the person they'd just back peddal till they died

[worthy crag]

every expansion had keyturners and back pedallers

but idk

just feels rogue gets more infested than other classes

actually i do know why

its ironically because rogue is a hard class

like ppl who "fotm" to DH will still stick to DH after it gets nerfed cuz they couldn't handle pressing more than 123 on any other spec

or MM

ppl will fotm on rogue when its good, using a 1 shot macro, and when that macro is gone theyll swap back to easier classes

thats why rogue feels more infested than others

and that infestation gets the community opinion boiling hot and gets a fat nerf bat, and only hurts the playerbase that's loyal to sticking to rogue

when the fotmers have moved on

back to dh

[grave basin]

Gonna be honest here and say it shouldn't matter

Cause you should be playing at a range that's way higher than any "one shot macro fotmer" will ever reach

So it shouldn't affect you anyway

[worthy crag]

But the nerfs don't target those niche one shots

it does though

because blizz doesnt know what to nerf

[grave basin]

I will concede that part

[worthy crag]

like cold blood sec tech is one shotting people

nerf evisc by 14%

???

or goremaw's bite nerf

early in season 2

by week 2 it was barely even hitting for 15% of a health bar

but they nerfed it cuz it was doing 40% of a health bar in week 1

[stoic spruce]

I think most people that "fotm reroll" are the ones that already have a rogue in their arsenal.

But with other classes you see people speed leveling DH for example.

[worthy crag]

I would honestly say a fotm mentality is the right way to play, at least when it comes to sub

trying to be loyal to sub is just actually miserable

[stoic spruce]

Sub don't like them high healthbars

So I get it

[worthy crag]

just fotm it in the first 4 days of an expansion or major patch when it's traditionally busted

and moveon before it gets hit with 17 consecutive nerfs

[steel scarab]

Wish me luck on my vault, boys

Oof, cancer

I guess I take this notably mastery-devoid ring

[vital socket]

Reject sub embrace mastery outlaw

[stoic spruce]

I wish mastery wasn't a bad stat

apparently its getting a tweak in TWW to make Trickster more desirable but we'll see how that goes.

Idk how you could tweak the mastery to make it good without it being different but maybe I lack the imagination.

[grave basin]

They could always add an additional effect

Like what Ret gets going into tww

[stoic spruce]

What's ret getting?

[grave basin]

Their mastery also throws a hammer iirc

[stoic spruce]

Whoa

[grave basin]

But it's being "modernised"

[stoic spruce]

That's neat

Oh lord

[grave basin]

To fit into their hero talents

[stoic spruce]

Lol

So if we were to 1:1 into outlaw, that'd be like our mastery shooting a pistol shot?

Or a bte?

All I can think of is buff duration so maybe I do lack the imagination for this subject.

[grave basin]

Mastery: Hand of Light Mastery buffed by 50% (now is 12% baseline, was 8%).
Mastery: Hand of Light gives Judgment a % chance (scales with Mastery) to blast the target with the Light, dealing Bonus Holy damage.

So they gain more mastery % per point of stat and then the 2nd is a new effect

[stoic spruce]

Interesting

That's pretty neat tbh

[wanton breach]

nothing wrong with taking 2 sockets instead

[untold remnant]

Blizzard is such an insane troll with how broken Boomie is. I'm DOING 300k SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE

LOL

back to back 300k starsurge, meanwhile Between the Eyes gets gutted for doing 120k a crit

[wanton breach]

450k rising sun kicks? better nerf outlaw

[fallen scaffold]

doin 15k steady less dps on assa

garrote still #1 by wide margin doe

just no sudden demise procs anymore

[untold remnant]

Blizzard is fcking stupid thinking they need that

[grave basin]

It's all down to tuning

If it evens out it doesn't matter

[grave basin]

Imo better to take sockets cause conquest gonna be uncapped or just so high it doesn't matter what you get

By next week we should be fully purple

[wanton breach]

Yup

[steel scarab]

lol

2-10 boys

Spec is fucking DEAD

Zero pressure, can't win by making it to dampening anymore, other classes just present way too much pressure comparatively

Kill windows are way too small

I would need a 300 IQ to hit 2400 with the spec as it is currently

[jolly sierra]

get more mastery dood

[steel scarab]

I was killing people fine a day ago

[jolly sierra]

the nerf is both for like 10%

if u get that amount, u would fill the lost damage

[steel scarab]

Here's the problem

Let's say I get 10% mastery. Let's say I got a lucky vault upgrade this week

And it somehow gave me 10% mastery

Other classes that got a 10% stat buff through their gear got a 10% power increase

Whereas I just broke even

Not to mention, everyone's HP went up

[harsh steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/loss-rollbit-gme-stock-breakeven-gif-21792694

[wanton breach]

just reroll dh, that shit is never getting nerfed

[untold remnant]

Any alternatives to GladiusEx still working?

[wanton breach]

gladius dragonflight or sarena work just fine

gex is giga buggy

[untold remnant]

I used it to see enemy cd's on the top, removed all the other options

[untold remnant]

Thanks! Got sArena set up again 🙂

Now I'll queueu some shuff on alt outlaw to see the damage to the spec

[harsh steppe]

anybody have a hunter alt on NA i can duel rq to test out a macro?

[wintry dew]

Why a hunter?

[harsh steppe]

still having issues getting my spam stealthie macro to work

[wintry dew]

How come?

[harsh steppe]

do i need /target [nodead] or just /targetenemyplayer? or /target enemy?
do I use /targetenemy [noexists][dead] /cast Sap instead?
how do i combine stealth into the macro? with /cast !stealth or /cast [nostealth, nocombat] !stealth?
do i add the /cast stealth part regardless of which it is to the bottom or end?
do i need /cqs? do i need /stopattack? do i need /stopcasting?
are there classes I can't detect?
am i supposed to spam tab targeting too? that's the only way I can get it to work atm, but i thought you just needed to spam the macro
i know it's possible to have a macro that can stealth & spam sap for stealthies, had a friend that did it a long time ago, but I can't figure out how to replicate it
so having a hunter outside stormrage in camo would be the best option i think
i'm losing so many games because of this

[steel scarab]

Okay we are still viable at 1900

(yes, I lost 300 rating lmao)

(yes, it was a bad idea to panic socket haste gems and spec into Dragon Tempered Blades)

(no, I don't know why I am like this)

[grave basin]

Never ever tilt queue

Always ends badly

You'll get those points back

[stoic spruce]

Not if it's a tilt queue tho

[grave basin]

I mean after the tilt wears off

Take a break and come back when you aren't tilted

Touch grass

[steel scarab]

Agreed

I just worked 15 hours so

I should've known better than to queue when I got home

I was just excited for vault / to see how bad the nerfs were

I honestly didn't feel KB nerf as much but the Garrote nerf feels awful

Also, WW is cancer

WW feels like DH felt last season

I think I went 1-5, 0-6, then 5-1

We definitely got worse lol

[untold remnant]

And you were fighting Windwalker a lot? 😄

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/character/us/illidan/trillr what are these embelishments Trill is playing lol

[grave basin]

Probs just using it for the stats?

[jaunty quiver]

Tried to find out if we need to change stats for outlaw, but not enough testing on the people I watched on twitch, anyone have any luck?

[potent pivot]

i doubt anything big is going to change

it's kind of a filler season anyway so idk if anyone's really going to bother testing diff stats etc after the tuning changes

[untold remnant]

I think crit build is still good, but the ace up your sleeve nerf is the most noticeable and stupid change.

You could build towards a mastery set as it is beneficial for Sub and Assa too.

Or finish Crit build and differentiate into mastery for the other specs and see if that's better for Outlaw too. I'm close to finshing the crit build anyways, so I'll start getting mastery afterwards and then do some testing with different builds

[untold remnant]

https://www.twitch.tv/nasklaga_ this guy is testing right now, if u wanna watch. in 2s

[jaunty quiver]

I can't watch ATM sadly at work, but if he has an answer, I'd love to hear it!

[last jasper]

wtf, we already have 3 catalyst charges?

[wintry dew]

Yes

1/week

[stoic spruce]

That's what English looks like to me when I get an ice pick headache

[last jasper]

wow. this season is going to be really fast indeed

[wintry dew]

Therefore is a welcoming chance for alts

[last jasper]

lmao, yea I still have few alts on a russian server 😄 plus hdr makes scrnshot looks even more toxic 😄

[stoic spruce]

I need some undead mains opinions

[wintry dew]

I'll pretend I'm an undead main, go!

[untold remnant]

We are still good as Outlaw boys. Damage is lower, but the CP resets still give 5-7 combo points, depending on ruthlessness proc and broadsides buff (seems to be giving bigger resets, but feelycraft there).

Just did a double 5-1 lobby on my alt Outlaw, jsut keep doing what we do best: keep heal in CC and hope you have teammates that know how to do damage. Luckily all lobbies had a DH (ofc) who was blasting, as well as an MM, Ret, War doing hideous damage

I am still statted vers/crit heavy

It might feel better as I got my second crafted item and extra PvP pieces tho..!

[quaint cedar]

Good to hear man. Still a terrible change, but at least it sounds like we'll survive it.
Just curious, how far off was your damage from the big pumpers in your lobbies? I swear DH and WW were already doubling my damage before

Pretty sure that looks right

[untold remnant]

2 of the rounds

Here I have a DH doing 170k dps

we won this one 😛 boomie DH

[stoic spruce]

Forsaken Crest with a ribbon under it that says "What Would You Ask Of Death?"

Thoughts?

[wintry dew]

I like it

Sounds good

(it's what the npcs actually say)

Or was it Sylvanas?

[stoic spruce]

The NPCs

[quaint cedar]

Still blows my mind that we got nerfed and DH didn't. Where even is the logic in that

[halcyon timber]

I wonder how much if that is actually single target and not multi targetting/ dungeon pad damage.

Every class in that lobby, and rets / monks / enhance etc all do tab target dungeon damage. I wonder if the oopsie talents were brought down from those classes what effects would that do. (Prob nothing as people are too concerned with details).

OR
If that is just what those classes are meant to do as a hard charger and that is considered in tuning.

[wanton breach]

uhhhh what the fuck is that

[wintry dew]

Turn off mature language and reload

Trust me, I'm an engineer

[wanton breach]

thanks it's working again

[wintry dew]

wink

[untold remnant]

This is PvE LFG, PvP LFG is broken 😄

[halcyon timber]

https://youtu.be/IlVcfv3-AUw?si=N07XS_fhTCWa-1Si solid vid with some things moving forward boys

[grave basin]

that's a complete nothingburger of an interview

[fading blade]

Did we watch the same video? All I heard was TBD, can’t talk about it, no plans about this, maybe increase healer mmr and that’s it lol

[grave basin]

if anything that interview just damns blizzard as not caring about pvp at all

[forest gyro]

does subterfuge get the 10% dmg increase? (does it count as stealth)?

[grave basin]

if that was a m+ interview it would be filled with the most intricate detail about every little shit

[halcyon timber]

Hints and things to consider, yes nothing was guaranteed but also being abrasive doesn’t help either.

Plans and tbd is better than silence

[fading blade]

I just have zero faith in the team, especially with the recent things

[halcyon timber]

Understood

[grave basin]

theyve been tbd about healer mmr for 2 years

so i think the abrasiveness is warrented

[halcyon timber]

They tried all sorts of stuff first and now are painted in a corner so to speak

[fading blade]

Listening to the community would be a good first step

[halcyon timber]

Simultaneously, good to hear them talking about it and making a motion to move forward

Agreed

[grave basin]

not giving healers a +0 when going 3 -3 is the most low hanging fruit to try first

[halcyon timber]

Always cheapest to most expensive when replacing parts to machinery

Agreed on the 3-3

[grave basin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/1cn670u/pvp_dev_stumped_when_asked_about_healers_going_33/

[fading blade]

If the healer mmr gets fixed, do you think it’ll fix things? The way I see it is that healers will finally get to their desired rating quicker and will prob stop Q’ing after just because of the circus solos is

[wanton breach]

wait till someone tells that guy about demon hunters

[grave basin]

at the very least it will encourage more people to try healing

[halcyon timber]

Agreed, it is a volatile situation regardless of how that pendulum swings.

[surreal barn]

I don’t feel like that video said much at all

I can see why he was promoted from QA though

[fading blade]

tbh i would for the priest mog but the mmr is so bad lol

[grave basin]

ye i think people hear it's hard to push as healer

so they dont push

then the pop goes down even more so it's a vicious cycle

[waxen meteor]

Anyone done the primary stat boot?

can share the stat in pvp?

[safe pelican]

What was the nerfs to rogue ?? Can somebody send them

[last jasper]

“It’s a good question
I don’t know actually”

And this guy is playing healer as I understand 😂

[safe pelican]

Is this all that was changed ?

Can make up kingsbane damage with garrote if so , no issues assass still on top. IF this is correct

[surreal barn]

Garrote was nerfed

Not buffed

[waxen meteor]

@surreal barn could you share a screenshot of primary stat boot in pvp?

both the stat and trigger effect number

[surreal barn]

Yes

I’ll log on to check

[safe pelican]

Says reduced to 20% and it was 30% , wouldn’t that mean that it was nerfed by 30% and now it’s nerfed by 20% which is 10% MORE

So wouldn’t that be a buff and not a nerf

[surreal barn]

10% less

Wording different than the others

[safe pelican]

I’m so confused 🫠 i know nothing says increase so I’m guessing all nerfs to kingsbane , garrote and BTE

[surreal barn]

yeah

[last jasper]

The damage bonus is 50% initially. Was reduced to 30 and now to 20%

[waxen meteor]

it's big garrot nerfed 10%

kingsbane shifts more dmg from instant to dot

that's it

[surreal barn]

I already added the mastery needed to cover the garrote nerf though - the kingsbane slap kinda stinks

But yeah, everyone else has more health now

It feels kinda dampy before a kill now

[waxen meteor]

i think we gonna be comparatively worse and worse with season goes deeper

[surreal barn]

idk

i think assa still good

unholy and a couple others slap hard right now

[waxen meteor]

it's good and might still be good

[prisma saddle]

4 set for sub even worth it? I was thinking just using chest legs

[waxen meteor]

it's just compare to ourselves as of last week and this week

it will just be worse

More HP of everyone

No use of any high item level pve items

etc.

also low benefits from haste/crit etc.

[halcyon timber]

Some do , some of us don’t. Experiment when you can afford it but it isn’t detrimental as it shifts a few things given stats allocation.

[prisma saddle]

4 set world PvP set worth.

[halcyon timber]

Its fine but isnt ridiculous

[gleaming pawn]

World PvP set does not work in rated like arena or blitz

[prisma saddle]

Ohh interesting

So just keep the belt gloves

[last jasper]

It was nerfed to 20% I believe. So not really

[halcyon timber]

Yeah that’s meant for outside only

[prisma saddle]

I mean belt wrists

[gleaming pawn]

Yes belt and wrists you keep for the mastery until you can craft pieces for those slots with vers/mastery instead (and get the 3 ilvl you’re missing)

[rain verge]

Hi Team

I want to know if there is any fun/usefull items i should get for pvp, like the old days where you could have rocket boots for Speed increase etc?

[gleaming pawn]

Nothing fun or useful works in rated pvp

[harsh steppe]

the prismatic bauble is hella fun 🤩

https://tenor.com/view/pride-rainbow-gif-26074074

[twin burrow]

i think the kingsbane change is a buff

[grave basin]

wtf is wrong with lfg??

[twin burrow]

KB ramps up, so having its DOT do more dmage will mean more net damage

[grave basin]

this is all i see?

[surreal barn]

@pearl warren what stat weight are you aiming for versatility?

how low would you go

[safe pelican]

Okay okay copy

And I guess we can look at the kingsbane as a buff & nerf more dot dmg is cool with me i knew they would nerf cause it was hitting pretty hard instant

[gleaming pawn]

It’s not, at best it’s a net neutral. But the DoT effect requires several things to do big damage including uptime and poison procs. Also the damage being delayed and therefor easier to react to and respond makes KB just that much weaker of a CD

[safe pelican]

What was the mastery needed to cover the garrote nerf

[gleaming pawn]

Making Sin even more of a dampener spec, but without the defensives and ability to live that actual dampener specs have

[pearl warren]

30

[safe pelican]

In short , re roll DH after next patches nerf got it 🤣

[pearl warren]

but i mean im not rly 'aiming' for vers

jus mast every piece

[steel scarab]

So

Just to elaborate on why I probably lost a lot of games last night

[surreal barn]

Yeah that’s how I’ve been doing it so far

[steel scarab]

I thought to myself

"If those devs are gonna nerf us, I'll find a new way to play"

Needless to say, I found a new way to play

It just

Is awful

(I changed to this cursed spec after losing 2 SS matches with the traditional spec)

[proper heath]

So did assa get nerfed ? Or was garrote buffed ? Confused

[safe turret]

Kind of concerning how many people cant figure that out honestly

it was nerfed

[halcyon timber]

Not attempting to prod but agreed. Poor reading comprehension, irrational outbursts, and slanderous statements are an odd norm. Very concerning indeed.

[steel scarab]

Garrote was very clearly a nerf, I'm not sure why people were having trouble understanding that

Kingsbane was a part nerf part buff, that one was a little harder to understand and I could see the confusion

The KB change I understand

[halcyon timber]

Logically, it was just transferred to the dot portion as you all have discussed

[steel scarab]

Regarding outbursts, I'll ask you this:

Is outrage not justified in this case? Consider for a moment the two scenario.

Either A, Blizzard is balancing around the 1600 bracket and the general feelings people have when facing certain classes in PvP. Then, okay, I could see the assassination nerf being justified; it is a lot of damage and pressure for people at low ratings and I could understand how it would be frustrating to play against that. If this was the reason for the nerf, explain to me why WW Monk and Demon Hunters were untouched.

Or B, Blizzard is balancing the game around the high echelons of ranked PvP play and overall representation in arena. In which case, why wasn't Affliction nerfed into the ground? It creates way more pressure than Assassination, it does it from 40 yards away, and it's more resilient

[halcyon timber]

A graph for physical demonstration would dispel all confusion

Outbursts aren’t directed at you or anyone specifically. It is an observation regarding changes in general.

[steel scarab]

I understand that, but I'm saying, the outbursts are justified when the changes are this heavy handed AND make no logical sense.

[halcyon timber]

“Game is too fast” blizz changes it. The same people are pissed.

Agreed hitting assassins and outlaw was not cool

Definitely don’t agree when rogues plan and some goon has 2 team mates to stop the rogue

[steel scarab]

"Game is too fast"

Blizzard nerfs the sustained DPS portion of our kit and leaves the ridiculously high burst classes like WW and Ret and Havoc alone

[halcyon timber]

Yeah definitely

[steel scarab]

Like uh, no, that's not what we meant

[halcyon timber]

XD

They hit cc and warrs still find things to dive into a pool of leggos about.

[gilded gulch]

havoc is more sustained absurd dam tbh

[halcyon timber]

Watching mm pop warriors for 450 aimed shots and no one cares

[gilded gulch]

and ww has the most telegraphed burst ever

[halcyon timber]

Yeah no serenity next expansion and some other new cool toys they got took its place

New talent from shadowpan making them guarantee 4-5 stacks is a bit wild with monastery

Shit seemed cool

[gilded gulch]

the biggest perk of serenity is you don't have to deal with blizzard's idiotic pet ai

[halcyon timber]

Well that is going away

And they instead get this cool ass tiger swipe effects becoming the avatar of xuen kinda

[gilded gulch]

mages being able to just press nova and effectively cut your damage in 1/3

was very cool

[halcyon timber]

Monk has a lot of movement in tww too

Prob aint kiting them for jack anymore

[gilded gulch]

Yeah but monks being bugged is a class feature

at this point

[harsh steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/kodadot-nft-rmrk-gif-25243532

[dapper chasm]

What's the "He aight" rating for solo shuffle?

What do the kids aim for these days?

[harsh kiln]

i guess what they can reach

they're not very tall. atleast where i'm from

[dapper chasm]

I'm over 6 foot, you can probably tell by the fact I play sub

I meant in terms of rating

[narrow tangle]

i lost all my will to play rogue

time to gear my purple rogue

joever

[tropic mason]

its over

rogue dead

havoc taking over

oh wait tril still roguin it up

[surreal barn]

Sapping angel form if they sit the whole smoke bomb is so nice

[halcyon timber]

Yeh

Same w dh in neither walk peter pan flying around

Or when hunter feign deaths and falls on the floor like a turd in a toilet

[tropic mason]

watching the move just get owned by cyclone

[harsh steppe]

AYOO

[stoic spruce]

Ayy gg

[twin burrow]

top 100 for ur spec id say

[surreal barn]

lol I made the flaring cowl

The shield pops about every 10 seconds edit: time varies

Seems to proc a lot less often in pve

[gleaming pawn]

can't wait to queue for blitz in TWW, and have a tank in a CTF map that refuses to carry the flag and just pretends they are a dps. I just got a preview with a prot paladin

and the best part, because there is a tank in the bg anyone that picks up the flag do not get the special buff

[tribal badger]

2 rppm

• haste

so you should get 2 ish procs a minute and some change

[outer sky]

is it worth it to take Caustic Spatter in RBGs instead of internal bleeding if the group wants you team fighting?

[lucid citrus]

no because you rarely press mutilate since youre always FoK to build CP

[nova viper]

SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEXO

[pliant mauve]

Has anyone run the numbers on what a hardcore haste build looks like with assa? I don’t want to try but I’m curious if it’s at all viable. Without much thought it seems like garrote, rip, kings, deathmark, and KB ticking with 20%+ haste would hit hard if the mastery loss wasn’t too severe.

Whoops meant crimson instead of kingsbane twice

[wintry dew]

The mastery loss will be severe if you swap all the mastery out for haste

[sick wasp]

boosting a drood for shuffles/3s

im gonna get railed

badly

or should i do lock

no way lock nvm,those dhs gonna pve on my ass

[wanton breach]

how about you just go dh and rail all enemies

[sick wasp]

i hate the class man

i cant stand it

[wanton breach]

but surely dh is going to get nerfed soon 😉 😉 😉 😉 😉 😉 😉 😉

[sick wasp]

now that uve said

that thing survived the tuning

actually crazy

dmg wise is a crazy specc

[winged cosmos]

do you go 2 or 4 set as assassin pvp ?

[wintry dew]

2

[stoic spruce]

Did you know if you give dev pvp tricks, you auto-win in 2s?

[untold remnant]

Just had double DH + Arcane mage lobby and won 4-2! One of the DH was bad and only won 1, so did the mage 🫣

2.3k mmr

[sick wasp]

that RM tech

but ye Dev pumps

that stupid channel shreds

so much dmg

[untold remnant]

I wonder what will happen with tricks PvP talent combined with trickster hero talents. As you can give someone tricks for 1 hour

That would be pretty insane

[stoic spruce]

I've been thinking about that ever since the tree was released

[untold remnant]

Outlaw + devastation, while outlaw remains stealthed

New strat

Compared to mage rogue has shit options, curious for deathstalker.

But compared to Sunfury for mage for example, sadge.

Most specs get some cool animations, would love to see ours

[jolly sierra]

SEXOOOOOOO

[sick wasp]

Raz doing sin shuffles

hop in for the sin big plays boys

[steel scarab]

@pliant mauve no. I've tried 15% haste and it is awful

[harsh steppe]

should i be using shadowstrike whenever i'm able? or only when perf veins is ready?

also, should i put shadowstrike where i have backstab on my stealth bar?

[steel scarab]

That depends

And yes, though you still need gloomblade/backstab somewhat accessible for the single time you cast it during Dance if you're using Dance Macabre

That's actually why I stopped playing subtlety, I hated the rigidity of Dance Macabre, but it's too good not to take

Though with how terrible Assassination feels currently I might try sub again lol

@harsh steppe

[harsh steppe]

ah ok i'll keep them seperately binded then tyty

[harsh steppe]

ONE OF US, ONE OF US

[steel scarab]

🤔

Sin pre-nerf I was closing in on 2400, every loss I felt like I did multiple things wrong and identified a few things I could've done differently to win. Usually did decent damage. Now I just absolutely feel like I cannot threaten lethal outside of KB + Dance + full uptime, or like 90% dampening. I look at the meters and I'm like consistently 3rd or 4th, getting absolutely rocked in total damage by Survival, Affliction, Ret, DH, Warrior

[harsh steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-darkside-star-wars-evil-innerme-gif-12686883553708718330

[steel scarab]

Before when I would get ignored I would absolutely obliterate the enemy team with damage spread, now when I get ignored I don't create much pressure. And when I'm focused I do last quite a long time due to smart use of defensives and high versatility but

I'm questioning more and more, why play assassination when the damage is this bad and I'm using long CC chains to kill people? Might as well just go subtlety and do it right

[harsh steppe]

exactly

[steel scarab]

Unless I am seriously doing something wrong, I don't watch sin vids of the really talented people, but like

[harsh steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/darth-vader-search-your-feelings-you-know-it-to-be-true-star-wars-gif-16574787

[steel scarab]

If I was 2300 pre-nerf, easily winning games at 2200, and now I can barely hang at 2100 and 2000, that tells me either the nerf seriously affected our spec, or just me personally

Are mastery/versatility still the main stats for sub?

[wintry dew]

@harsh steppe how's your rating going?

[harsh steppe]

hardstuck 1k

[steel scarab]

Whereas before, MM hunters felt like food if I had good uptime on them, post MM buff I feel like they don't even care if I've got 100% melee uptime on them, they do more damage than me in a 1v1 situation lol

[harsh steppe]

yes

[steel scarab]

Idk who is balancing this game but it's clear they don't give a single shit about Solo Shuffle

[harsh steppe]

i don't understand how i'm supposed to climb ranking when my team breaks my ccs every round
honestly i'm really frustrated with myself, I feel like I'm not getting any better & it's soul shattering

[steel scarab]

I am a very mediocre subtlety rogue and I hit 1600 and then games became very hard

This was last season, dunno about now

I also didn't use macros, so I borked my go a lot

[harsh steppe]

i have everything set up perfectly i just can't manage it
like balancing 7 different CCs while managing control on my focus target while trying not to use shadow dance until my GOs while trying to peel off that 3rd guy while trying to survive

loss after loss after loss after loss while every teammate trash talks me & calls me trash

[steel scarab]

It's because the difference between a mediocre warrior and a good warrior is a pothole, while the difference between a mediocre Subtlety rogue and a good subtlety rogue is the Grand fucking canyon

[quaint cedar]

Very true

[steel scarab]

It is a very hard spec to play

[harsh steppe]

yeah yall weren't kidding

[quaint cedar]

Rogue in general is like that honestly

[steel scarab]

Rogue in general yes, absolutely, but especially subtlety because your kill windows are so small.

[harsh steppe]

but i'm not going to give up i love playing sub & i'm going to try to just keep learning from each match

[steel scarab]

That's how I'm feeling with sin though, I feel the way I was playing it pre-nerf was more an attrition, Affliction warlock style fashion and now that doesn't work because we don't do enough pressure

Again, unless I'm just doing something massively wrong

Now I feel like an incredibly shitty Affliction warlock with subtlety-style tiny kill window opportunities

[quaint cedar]

Outlaw is quite hard now too. I think sub is still harder but outlaw is pretty damn close now. We aren't just zug zuggers like we used to be

Yeah it sucks that Kingsbane got nerfed for you guys. It was your only real direct damage

Envenom does nothing

[surreal barn]

Just stack more mastery

[harsh steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/i-ain't-gonna-back-down-lala-ri-rupaul’s-drag-race-all-stars-s8e11-i'm-not-giving-up-gif-14151296209055118113

[surreal barn]

We have so many ways to do that now

Compared to last season

That shield ring has pretty insane stats

[quaint cedar]

FOTM train moves fast btw. Got to do a few 2s last night with my friend who plays disc. Was just warriors for days

Their pressure just from merely existing is insane

[harsh steppe]

i think i'm at the point where i need to start askign for critiques so this weekend i'll try to post a round or two here & see what yall think i can improve on

[quaint cedar]

Go for it, recording games is what helped me improve

[steel scarab]

@surreal barn I'm at 68% mastery with 1 Blue Silken, is that bad or acceptable?

I don't have a second embellishment yet

[surreal barn]

Is that in pvp combat

[steel scarab]

Nah, before

[surreal barn]

What is it scaled

[steel scarab]

I wanna say it's like 75% in PvP?

But only at 90%+ HP

[surreal barn]

I’m 83

[steel scarab]

How? Engineering bracer/helm?

[quaint cedar]

I hope things get better for us next expansion. Outlaw nerfs were brutal. I can't really kill by myself anymore, I need someone else to help with pressure. First tried Outlaw Rsham in 2s and that was completely unplayable. Getting gapped so hard by warriors, DHs, and rets. Playing with disc worked well because the priest can contribute a lot of damage too.

[surreal barn]

Offhand dagger and ring

[quaint cedar]

Sub is in the same boat pretty much

We're just support specs now

[steel scarab]

I still don't have a spark for this week and since the game sucks donkey balls at explaining how to gain player power, I don't know when I'll get it lol

[harsh steppe]

it sounds like it's a tough time for rogue in general

[steel scarab]

Which offhand dagger has mastery?

I bought the Hellbloom cloak this week

Or whatever this season's Hellbloom is called

[quaint cedar]

@harsh steppe yeah in all the time I've played arena (since SL S2) this is the worst shape rogue has been in, except for that brief retpocolypse in 10.0.7.
None of our specs feel strong to the average player. You'll still see rogue in AWC because those players are good enough to abuse rogue strengths fully and cover weaknesses. But it's tougher for us on ladder

Especially in shuffle

[halcyon timber]

Don’t you pay attention to the turds that somehow got planted in the growing garden. They can fold their opinion 5x (very important step), make sure to add olive oil and lay in a recumbent position while shoving that opinion straight into ye ol corn holio.

[harsh steppe]

the main issue i'm having is i'm tab targeting to my enemies to CC
working on that by adding my focus macros to my mouse buttons, idk my brain works better by splitting right hand = focus, left hand = everything else
but rn my brain can only handle kidney shot focus macro, that's it lol

[quaint cedar]

Tbh, I still tab target, and I've been 2500 as outlaw in shuffle, and generally 2100 - 2200 in 2s/3s

[steel scarab]

@harsh steppe you do not need to use focus targeting

I have never done that

[halcyon timber]

Only a fool chastises others along their road of improvement.

[steel scarab]

Ever

[quaint cedar]

Focus targeting would help if you can do it, but not required at all

[steel scarab]

It definitely makes you better, but not focus targeting is not why you're hard stuck at 1000

[quaint cedar]

Yup exactly

[harsh steppe]

oh really

[quaint cedar]

I hope some day I can wrap my brain around some kind of focus macro system. But hasn't happened yet for me

[halcyon timber]

Slow down and play your own game. Don’t focus on the meter maid details mini game.

[steel scarab]

I think perhaps part of the problem is, you're trying to play like a 2700 rogue

You need to start smaller

[quaint cedar]

I'm out of comfortable keybinds for it too

[steel scarab]

Yeah I have no key binds left lol

[surreal barn]

The one you get from bronze bullions

[harsh steppe]

ok tysm guys good to know not worrying about focus macros will help me a lot tbh ill start there

[steel scarab]

@surreal barn I think I have 3 bronze bullions currently, I didn't realize we could get a good dagger from there

[quaint cedar]

What are these bullion things everyone keeps talking about?

[surreal barn]

Extra two this week from mythics

[steel scarab]

You get them from... Raid I think? Or whatever the weekly quest that week is

[halcyon timber]

They are little cubes you drop into soup (kidding)

[quaint cedar]

Lmao

[surreal barn]

That’s BETTER than bullion

[halcyon timber]

They are old world words for an alternative currency akin to gold pieces

[halcyon timber]

Had to take the opportunity to confuse people heh

[surreal barn]

lol

[quaint cedar]

In the context of wow pvp, do I care about them?

[steel scarab]

I thought we didn't, but Zeiss is saying some of the pieces may be good for us

[quaint cedar]

Gross

[halcyon timber]

It is experimental propaganda that people are raging over.

[quaint cedar]

I don't wanna do more pve

[surreal barn]

Yer gonna need to pve

[steel scarab]

Well he's like 400 rating higher than me so, I tend to trust what he says lol

[surreal barn]

lol

Lots of pve

I had to create my own group no one would take me

[halcyon timber]

Pve cultists

[steel scarab]

Luckily my gf heals so getting M+ groups will be easy

[quaint cedar]

Is this just an assa thing or should we all be doing this?

[surreal barn]

Also that shield ring in pvp it doesn’t shield for much

[steel scarab]

I strongly dislike that they're making us do these bullshit PvE chore lists before I can play arena properly

[surreal barn]

But I’ve seen it instant proc 5-6 times

Right after each other

[halcyon timber]

Going through that effort for it to be nerfed with a vengeance

[steel scarab]

I'm also not excited about the prospect of farming such a ring only for the devs to be like "teehee, thanks for engaging with our content! We're nerfing it now"

[surreal barn]

You take the shield ring for the stats

The mastery ratio is nuts

[halcyon timber]

It is sporecloak nonsense all over again. A fools errand

[steel scarab]

That sucks, because I used conquest this week on ring #2 🥲

[halcyon timber]

It will be responsibly tuned

[tawny kestrel]

its already nerfed and doesnt do much

[quaint cedar]

Eh fang adornments went an entire season before getting nerfed and that was a huge damage increase

[tawny kestrel]

the stats are insane so its good

[surreal barn]

I want two

lol

[steel scarab]

Hear me out

[quaint cedar]

So what are all the pve items we care about then?

[steel scarab]

Wouldn't it have been better for them to leave Garrote modifiers the fuck alone and just

Make it so the PvE bullshit gear is nerfed in PvP

[surreal barn]

Is @quaint cedar Assa now

[halcyon timber]

Woah woah no rational thinking james cut that shit out

[quaint cedar]

Nope, outlaw for life

[surreal barn]

then you don’t have to get anything

lol

[quaint cedar]

Even if I'm a support spec now

[steel scarab]

Do you know how infuriating it is that I'm gearing for PvP the logical way, with PvP pieces, and my spec gets nerfed because people are breaking the spec with PvE pieces

[quaint cedar]

Okay awesome

[steel scarab]

And now my spec is nonviable unless I go get PvE pieces lol

[quaint cedar]

Sucks to be you! lol jk

[steel scarab]

This game is so dogshit

[surreal barn]

I honestly think sub is going to pop off a couple weeks from now

When their mastery is off the charts

[quaint cedar]

Maybe, but high health pools are also an issue

[steel scarab]

"Just get more mastery if you want to be viable in PvP"

Buys PvP mastery pieces

"No, not like that"

[surreal barn]

Basically

[quaint cedar]

And the most meta classes right now are very tanky. DH and boomie in particular do not seem to die