kidney toxic blade ungabunga
#pvp
steel scarab
I tried to install Gladius and it like took up my whole screen and was confusing so I immediately uninstalled it lol
restive hemlock
Do you not track DRs either then?
steel scarab
That is a really hot take, Outlaw is the brainless one in my mind
steel scarab
No, I absolutely have a DR tracker
sick wasp
./wave
steel scarab
PvP is 100% unplayable without a DR tracker
sick wasp
sarena all the way
gilded gulch
outlaw has more things it can do
forest root
everyone ive spoke to always said sin was easiest
hidden dome
That is a really hot take, Outlaw is the brainless one in my mind
I don't know a single spec in the game that takes more mastery to play well than outlaw
and I played every single class to 1.8 last season
steel scarab
Man, I hit 2000 with sin last season, that was not easy at all. Last season felt awful for Assassination
Couldn't quite get 2100 til this season
steel scarab
I got 2300 this season
sick wasp
its just that simple
steel scarab
But fell back to 2250
steel scarab
LOL
Those are very encouraging words
Maybe I will try to install Gladius again and configure it, it just seems like such a cursed UI with so much shit on it
hidden dome
aff locks?
Destro, for the free elite set
sick wasp
im inting hard coz idc for now but its rly a matter of getting good lobbies for 6-0s
steel scarab
All I want, literally all I want is a little icon by each opponent in arena that says if their trinket is on cd
sick wasp
u can easily climb the ladder with couple of those
steel scarab
If I had that I could do so much better
sick wasp
Destro, for the free elite set
yup that thing was nuts
sick wasp
sin is uhh….
😅
steel scarab
What season though? Sin has been insanely overtuned at times, and insanely undertuned at others
grave basin
am i reading these notes right
steel scarab
So that's not a super meaningful point without more information
grave basin
both outlaw and assa nerfed?
gilded gulch
the most noticeable thing about outlaw in mirrors i see
sick wasp
yup
grave basin
why does BTE need a nerf man
gilded gulch
is people dont know how to do damage
gilded gulch
What season though? Sin has been insanely overtuned at times, and insanely under...
back when mfd existed
cd lined up with stun dr so it wss kinda irrelevant
sick wasp
why does BTE need a nerf man
coz its a crit buff now that made outlaw swap capability very high and the dmg was there
so they tuned that
forest root
<--new rogue question here. Does sin still easily dog on people in 1v1s open world? I know sub is still the best option for 1v1 but like, how far away from from sin is it
steel scarab
So Shadowlands? I remember one of the SL seasons had absolutely outrageous inflation
grave basin
but BTE itself was our only burst
gilded gulch
df s1 was pretty bad too
grave basin
meanwhile ww is hitting 500k rsk
sick wasp
<--new rogue question here. Does sin still easily dog on people in 1v1s open wor...
yeah u can murder anyone as a rogue no matter the specc,rogue is king outdoor
steel scarab
I didn't PvP in SL
forest root
yeah u can murder anyone as a rogue no matter the specc,rogue is king outdoor
maybe ill do sin then. I'm smooth brain as fuck as I hear its way easier than sub
sick wasp
maybe ill do sin then. I'm smooth brain as fuck as I hear its way easier than su...
rogue and hunter are bis for outdoor fun
forest root
rogue and hunter are bis for outdoor fun
ya ive learned hunter really isnt what im looking for
so i made a rogue
sick wasp
gilded gulch
i’d say warrior for braindead but they suck at open world
forest root
ya i need 1v1 specifically open world
i live for it.
I could care less abotu arenas
about*
gilded gulch
rets are good at 1v1 but you just die to any mage with their keyword plugged in
wintry dew
I could care less abotu arenas
how will you get pvp gear tho
forest root
how will you get pvp gear tho
bgs
wintry dew
i mean
forest root
bgs kinda like open world
forest root
bgs give conq
gilded gulch
the only thing i see people do in open world
is drop on people with momentum restributor boots
for 1.3mil
forest root
my devoker has conq gear from purely bgs.
forest root
is drop on people with momentum restributor boots
i dont know what those are 🙂
but sounds fun lmao
wintry dew
yeah
gleaming pawn
It’s mind blowing that after the AWC and DH doing triple the damage of the lobby, yet they still haven’t eaten a nerf. But glad to see the tradition of nerfing Rogue for the audacity of existing after an AWC is alive and well
last jasper
yea, same for boomy
forest root
Hemotoxin, is it something id take for open world? (im not attacking healers)
or attacking people being masively healed
tropic mason
they really want a dh boomy meta
for awc
the only reason
dh boomy mirrors everywhere
tribal badger
ok but did u guys see the outlaw/WW clean sweep echo
that was wild
i love watching dh die
gleaming pawn
The WW clean swept Echo, and needs a nerf too. But yes, it was very satisfying watching echo get Monk’d
forest root
ok Assasin lovers. Please be my senpai and teach me the ways
Whats the general opener and the prio list?
hidden dome
A friend of mine just noticed
that you can't even get a elite piece for getting 1.6 this season
This season man
It is like they did everything to fuck PvP players over, it is actually hilarious
last jasper
that you can't even get a elite piece for getting 1.6 this season
the tier is the one ppl voted for. so yea
hidden dome
I mean
You still get last season's elite set
for reaching 1.8
not the set they voted for
last jasper
yea, thats why u dont get the elite from the token cuz this season elite is s3
kinda messed up
hidden dome
But if you get the token for reaching 1.6 you can neither buy last seasons 1.8 set, nor the voted for 1.8 set
you get the voted set's normal pvp set
Which is just funny
last jasper
same if u use catalyst it would be the one ppl voted. and not current conq
idle root
Best feeling ever
addiction is a hell of a drug
surreal barn
Yeah it is
I’m a crack dealer for all the stray cats of the neighborhood
Give them a taste of the good cat nip
jolly sierra
idk if catnip has real addiction issues for cats
grave basin
unless you want the actual poop 2.1 enchant theres no reason to touch pvp this season
or you enjoy going against boomy/dh every game
forest root
Whats the general opener and the prio list?
anyone know this for assasin rogue?
forest root
will do!
jolly sierra
or ask <@239851547935113216> If he's free
why meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
gleaming pawn
why meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
That’s what you get for being nice and personable to all the new people
wintry dew
Because you'll eventually be the Warlord of the Zaralekk Caverns
jolly sierra
That’s what you get for being nice and personable to all the new people
bruh im mean af most of time
gleaming pawn
Not as mean as me
steel scarab
Panda was actually incredibly mean to me when I first started but he was also very helpful lol
jolly sierra
see
gleaming pawn
Do you not remember what I said to Wildsoul when he started? Plus you take people like Marek under your wing sometimes
You’re a saint
jolly sierra
yeah i dumped him out too
he said was returning in 1 more month and never come back ever again
wintry dew
hopefuly never will
jolly sierra
same
was still funny when i won a duel against him and sent me a vid
wanna see? has not faces or anything, was focused in the floor
gleaming pawn
Yes, touch grass because you won a duel against a brand new Rogue
jolly sierra
i will today, need to buy the gift for my brother
wintry dew
xD
fading blade
dunno why with 23 yo wants a minecraft album with a lot of packs
Doesnt look like pvp talk to me in here
gleaming pawn
Damned Moggers
steel scarab
@wintry dew you provided some very helpful raid advice today, +1
quaint cedar
Wow. What the actual fuck are these outlaw changes
gleaming pawn
But also, there’s only so much pvp talk especially in a season like this
gleaming pawn
Why is ace being gutted? Just going to make outlaw feel awful to play.
Because fuck rogue, for reasons
quaint cedar
This is really sad. I was kinda hyped for this season since mmr wasn't reset. But idk, these are really heavy nerfs for outlaw. Not making me motivated to queue right now
I don't even understand it. We're at like 2% representation in solo shuffle. DHs are literally doubling, almost trippling the damage of outlaw in AWC.... but they get no nerfs?
Why does the dev team hate outlaw so damn much?
What a joke
jolly sierra
Doesnt look like pvp talk to me in here
ah ye, we shift a lot to come back to regular chat
the vid was in pvp context BTW
do any of u have the pie chart hyper sent some months ago?
was funny af
gleaming pawn
Hey if NoTricks doesn’t have a problem, I don’t see one
untold remnant
Why is ace being gutted? Just going to make outlaw feel awful to play.
LOL AND MEANWHILE THE BALANCE DRUID TIER SET IS BUFFED
untold remnant
From 40% starsurge damage to 60%
quaint cedar
Might as well buff DH too while they're at it
untold remnant
So god damn troll
untold remnant
Might as well buff DH too while they're at it
Ye, I think they need it bro!
jolly sierra
i agree
proceed to nerf rog even more
waxen meteor
I think I need to finish DH solo next weeks
quaint cedar
Actually disgusting
steel scarab
It's because, regrettably, the dev team balances the game based on "feelings" instead of numbers and data.
It's why assassination DPS got absolutely gutted in PvE raid recently, because assassins were getting fed extra damage padding from Power Infusions and Augmentation Evokers.
It's also why they nerfed assassination and outlaw in PvP despite other classes being much easier to play and MUCH more represented than us
gleaming pawn
i agree
*proceed to nerf rog even more*
That’s what the Assa nerfs were for. Even though there was like 2 in the entire AWC and the got crushed
untold remnant
To be honest, it is an annoying nerf: but we will still be good
waxen meteor
It’s not realistic it won’t be nerfed next time
quaint cedar
Why can't we just get an aura nerf? Why is the answer always to make outlaw gameplay feel like shit?
quaint cedar
To be honest, it is an annoying nerf: but we will still be good
Idk man. Going to really hard to kill anything. That's a massive nerf to our burst. Sustain damage won't be affected, but we don't kill with that anymore unless you want to go to deep damp
untold remnant
It's because, regrettably, the dev team balances the game based on "feelings" in...
That is not it: because people at 1400 rating get annihilated by rogues without trading ANY cooldown on our burst, we get nerfed. Because rogue has CC and we can kidney cheap cheap (and then they are not dead when you play outlaw)
Honestly did not expect this haha
I am usually not topping meters and when I do, it’s blade flurry on pets
Very lame nerfs
steel scarab
@untold remnant imagine balancing Arena around the feelings of the 1400 bracket though
Absolutely unhinged
gleaming pawn
It’s not realistic it won’t be nerfed next time
That’s what we said all of s3 too, but they never got touched
untold remnant
That’s what we said all of s3 too, but they never got touched
Meanwhile DH and WW will all unlock tier set tomorrow/Wednesday and blast EVEN higher then they already do
quaint cedar
Guess we might as well just reroll DH or WW. Why should I bother playing a spec that has to track a million things to do damage and yet still can't kill anything because the burst is nonexistent?
untold remnant
I am playing 2100 mmr right now in 3s and Shuffle. I have never been glad and keep facing the R1 players. Yet they all know how to deal with rogues: root them, disarm shadow dance, or cc shadow dance. Bye damage and control when u are on outlaw.
But because people at 1600-1800 can’t do that, the spec gets nerfed
ember elbow
any up to date rogue guides around?
untold remnant
Guess we might as well just reroll DH or WW. Why should I bother playing a spec ...
I will gear both and see. I just enjoy the theme of rogue way more 🥲
forest root
how long til conq cap is reset?
idle root
every tuesday(na) or wednesday(eu)
forest root
ty!
untold remnant
Just need 12% more versatility now to off set the nerf 😇
waxen meteor
Rapid fire extra 15%
honestly greatest time to play marksman alt now
it's gauranteed to be OP next week
forest root
is rapid fire the only thing that got buffed?
forest root
by how much lmao
untold remnant
5% nerf to sniper
waxen meteor
15% each
forest root
HOLY SHIT HAHAH
waxen meteor
sniper can leave skill tool bar
forest root
i literally just came from MM/Devoker
waxen meteor
it's just BG king
forest root
WHY AM I ROGUE NOW>?! HAHAH
quaint cedar
I am playing 2100 mmr right now in 3s and Shuffle. I have never been glad and ke...
Yeah, I'm at 2.1k mmr in 2s and shuffle right now. Same deal. You have to cross cc everyone to avoid getting peeled on your go. Even just vanishing will usually get a pre-defensive. It's not like it's hard to predict when the damage is coming
untold remnant
We kidney gouge healers on CD (unless u have a mage)
But guys, bookies will get 10% extra damage from starsirge and starfall from tier buffs and also on wrath or star fire
They already class with highest damage and best CC 🤓
forest root
is back
forest root
HA you have my naming scheme rip
wintry dew
you miss a 1% tmog talk with the pink guy
snow wyvern
Anyone got a Killing Spree Outlaw build for PvP?
quaint cedar
Same build as usual, just take a point out of count the odds and put it in killing spree
snow wyvern
ah okay cool
quaint cedar
Spree has no interactions with anything, no real special build for it
snow wyvern
Spree has no interactions with anything, no real special build for it
Ah well I am just messing around with stuff since I didn't really play last season
Heard Killing Spree was okay
quaint cedar
It's fine. Hits okay. Also nice as a root break and a bit of a defensive.
snow wyvern
Okay good to note, I was a big Sub main back in Season 2 that was the season i played last, I heard outlaw was sorta like Sub in a way so i am seeing how i like it
waxen meteor
Okay good to note, I was a big Sub main back in Season 2 that was the season i p...
who did you heard from lol
exotic dove
honestly greatest time to play marksman alt now
Any Hunter spec looks to be doing well right now Surv BM and MM. Good time to be a Hunter
kindred ferry
bro I just got the game and am trying to get addons for pvp. Shit is so confusing does anyone have a guide to help me
last jasper
I would try feral. Just to annoy ppl with cyclones
gleaming pawn
bro I just got the game and am trying to get addons for pvp. Shit is so confusin...
The only addon that is really required is Gladius/GladiusEx for better arena frames
kindred ferry
whats a good addon for action bars
stoic spruce
So I like the bte change because screw crackshot
But why ace???
Like
You should nerf damage, not gameplay.
harsh kiln
quaint cedar
Worse than that. 28% on the first BTE. If you proc Ace, you only get 4 combo points now, which would then be a 16% chance to proc if you BTE again.
stoic spruce
If only there was an alternative to crackshot
quaint cedar
Going to be right back to early season 2: tanky with a bunch of cc to annoy people but can't kill anything
Yup. Even if it's "viable", not sure it's going to be fun anymore
stoic spruce
I wonder if we're gonna go back to HO/KS depending on bad it actually feels
4cp bte is nothing
quaint cedar
Every time I think I've seen the worst outlaw change ever conceived, the blizzard dev team goes "hold my beer" and comes up with something even worse
stoic spruce
Lmao so true
quaint cedar
I'm not sure what we do. Crackshot is our only viable build. What else is there?
stoic spruce
Bro why couldn't they have just nerfed bte amd leave it at that??
quaint cedar
Right? Just the 12% bte nerf would have been fine. I wouldn't even complain about that
The Ace change is so bad
Wait, am I stupid? I swear I only get 5 right now. It ignores the ruthlessness combo point refund
I really don't remember ever getting 6. Can anyone else confirm? Am I crazy?
stoic spruce
No no
I'm pretty sure it was 6
Because it used to be 7 and it got nerfed
Regardless, 5 cp bte isn't a lot
quaint cedar
Still, 5 cp with 4% chance per point is 20%, still not great
If before it was 6 cp at 5%, that's a drop from 30% to 20%
stoic spruce
If this but with HO and SD is a build, I'll be unironically mad.
This is suppose to wait for TWW to cook
ITS STILL IN THE OVEN
frosty elm
Am I seeing this right boomy tier got buffed ?
stoic spruce
It did
quaint cedar
@drowsy oar what's your take on the changes? I know you play a ton of outlaw in shuffle. Do you think outlaw will still be any good?
frosty elm
Oh yes I forgot blizz forget about PvP only m+
quaint cedar
I really wish I had a backup dps. I don't like anything else though
stoic spruce
I play outlaw/unholy. I'm in a rough spot personally lol
quaint cedar
I finally got an arena push team for the first time ever and blizzard just kills my only spec
No idea what I'm going to do now
gleaming pawn
Ret is Rogue for toddlers
quaint cedar
TWW waiting room maybe?
gleaming pawn
So you could try that
quaint cedar
But that's the problem, all those simple classes bore me. I'd rather not play at all
gleaming pawn
And PvP-wise, WW is apparently always good and they won’t stop the one-shots
quaint cedar
I used to play feral, but I really hate the cyclone spam gameplay they are forced into right now.
stoic spruce
None have grapple hook though 
quaint cedar
Yeah idk, maybe it's a WW angle. They are at least not braindead like ret
Haven't tried that yet
stoic spruce
Idk man I played one the other day and people just randomly fall over
gleaming pawn
WW has super mobility, and the combo system is in theory intriguing skill check
quaint cedar
Yeah, my understanding is that WW is easier than it used to be but it's still skillful
I need to level one though
stoic spruce
I bet ots nice having the game being balanced around the content you play
Maybe reroll pve
stoic spruce
Out parse the pvers who think standing in a circle is hard
stoic spruce
Imagine getting patch notes more than once per season
Couldn't be us
Pvp made me a God in pve js
That Q/E spam goes hard
quaint cedar
Dude when I grinded for fang adornments in season 2 I legit diffed so many of the pve players and I had never done mythic plus before
I even got the keystone master achievement by complete accident
stoic spruce
I like playing with pvpers in mythics because they never let a cast go off
It's so engraved in us
quaint cedar
lol yup
stoic spruce
I remember I was playing prot warr in a key and I said "shockwave, fear after" and the other people who don't pvp said "okay...?"
Like
LISTEN TO MY CALLOUTS AND WE WIN GGEZ
stoic spruce
I remember I was playing prot warr in a key and I said "shockwave, fear after" a...
I was way under geared so I needed to CC chain packs
quaint cedar
Yeah and that's why everyone has a billion aoe cc abilities now, because of mythic+
stoic spruce
Yuck ikr
Prolly why we don't have healers lol
I really do not think rogue should've gotten an AOE blind
quaint cedar
I thought the implementation for aoe blind for rogue was perfect. Works great in pve, but undesirable for pvp so you stick with single target blind. Imagine if they gave rogue another aoe disorient while keeping blind
gleaming pawn
Poor Pika, the move decided he has to play DH now
stoic spruce
At least you have to sacrifice Gouge which is too big in arena
But soon we'll be balanced for bgs
stoic spruce
Can we still doom to let off steam?
quaint cedar
Cool, thanks for your perspective. I hope it works out to be at least still good. It doesn't have to be S tier for me to play it, but I will not go back to playing F tier outlaw like it was pre-buff in S2. That was miserable.
stoic spruce
F tier gameplay is an f tier spec to me tbh
quaint cedar
My plans of pushing shuffle on outlaw might be dead though. It never felt great there, even when it's strong
stoic spruce
I've been playing dev/Outlaw in 2s
quaint cedar
Yeah, that's the other concern. Even if it's good, will it still be fun with the ace nerfs?
And to make it even worse, we're not likely to get many more tuning changes, especially once mop remix comes out
stoic spruce
Actually though
quaint cedar
So outlaw will be stuck like this until at least TWW
gleaming pawn
So outlaw will be stuck like this until at least TWW
Fear not, you can flip coins for more RNG in TWW. Outlaw saved
quaint cedar
Really? Why? Tbh I don't really know anything about the remix thing
Idk, I unironically kinda like fatebound. Double grappling hook let's gooooo
That alone sounds more fun than trickster lol
gleaming pawn
I’m pretty sure in all the years Outlaw and Grappling Hook have existed, I have never had an in combat use case for double hook.
gleaming pawn
Really? Why? Tbh I don't really know anything about the remix thing
Remix is weird how classes are working, but you won’t have the s3 tier set at all. So you’ll level up from lvl 1 to cap with shit RtB
quaint cedar
Same talent trees though? That's weird
quaint cedar
I’m pretty sure in all the years Outlaw and Grappling Hook have existed, I have ...
Double hook would have a ton of uses in pvp.
Hook at mage -> they blink -> hook again
Hook to healer for cc -> hook back to kill target
That talent is insane for pvp. Which probably means it will get deleted because we're not allowed to have any fun
gleaming pawn
Yep the talent is 100% aimed at pvp, so expect it to get nerfed into the ground. For those very reasons you listed lol
Blizz gives rogue crazy mobility, they do crazy mobility shenanigans with it
I mean, the hated burst of speed and the community did too. How do you think they’ll feel about double hook + shadow step + blade rush all getting CDR
Or assa having 4 steps
Sorry I worded that a little wonky with the CDR, but first hook and blade rush are already very fast off CD
quaint cedar
Yup. No one wants rogues to have anything cool. We're the most hated class by far
Sucks when you look at other classes getting cool stuff and then we get things like trickster. Yay, more maintenance buffs!
Even visually rogue is very lacking. I wish we could play stuff like DFA
gleaming pawn
Honestly I’ve been dooming Rogue so much lately. TWW has the very real chance I won’t be maining a rogue for the first time since this game launched
One of the hardest classes to play well, and we’re rewarded for that with middling damage on PvE and constant nerfs in PvP. It’s beyond stupid
quaint cedar
It's exhausting really
gleaming pawn
100%
vital socket
One of the hardest classes to play well, and we’re rewarded for that with middli...
DH is op time to nerf assassination
quaint cedar
I've come to hate AWC because all it does is get the masses crying for rogue nerfs, every time. Even though none of us are good enough to play at tournament level
Solo shuffle representation at 2100+ currently. Outlaw is 5th from the bottom, gets dumpstered by nerfs. DH, 6th highest, gets nothing at all.
Oh and boomie? 5th highest? Gets buffed
harsh steppe
omg subs are so low rn lol
quaint cedar
Yeah, it's basically assa or bust now. Can't have more than one rogue spec be good at once, after all
harsh steppe
SUB 4 lYfE!!!!
gleaming pawn
Yeah, it's basically assa or bust now. Can't have more than one rogue spec be go...
And Assa ate a big nerf to Kingsbane today too
Just shelve rogues till TWW I guess
narrow tangle
dh untouched
harsh steppe
blizzard you better not make me go back to my hunter
narrow tangle
i play 4-5 other classes
harsh steppe
yah it’s just the cycle continues
narrow tangle
and it never occurred to me that rogues are so strong
in rss*
and i only care about rss idgaf if some 3s glad boosters stomping people with rmx i have no friends
you can do the same thing with boom dh sham or arms ret mw
idk man adjusting balance around %0.1 of pvp playerbase is demoralizing
gleaming pawn
MM got buffed
harsh steppe
when i played mm hunter it was all “mm trash rn bm all the way” then i tried bm then it was “bm and mm trash now sh all the way” i switched to rogue and it was all “sub all the way sin and outlaw trash” now it’s “sub trash, sin & outlaw good”
stoic spruce
I'm just gonna play the S2 build for outlaw. I'm not doing every other global an ambush during crackshot windows
narrow tangle
back to sub i guess
quaint cedar
I'm just gonna play the S2 build for outlaw. I'm not doing every other global an...
Lmao good luck
stoic spruce
Thank you 
twin burrow
astrium no cap all you do is bash people when the voice thgeir opinion, you know thats the point of this channel. to theory craft. to share ideas. to vent frustrations regarding rogue pvp. this is the rogue pvp channel in the rogue discord. just tsaying, , you dont offer muchto convoersations but i always see you just bashing people who voice their opniion
vital socket
sub does feel very bad rn
twin burrow
yes, feels good i n2s tho
sorry mods but i blocked astrium so there wont be anymore about that
jolly sierra
astrium no cap all you do is bash people when the voice thgeir opinion, you know...
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
quaint cedar
https://youtu.be/D4uIINH52dY?t=1195
Pretty good summation of how stupid these changes are
jolly sierra
yes, feels good i n2s tho
its ok dude, i have like 3 guys blocked here, gladly they almost doesnt come here, so
gleaming pawn
astrium no cap all you do is bash people when the voice thgeir opinion, you know...
you're not wrong, I would have torn into him when he first showed up but actually arguing with them would have just made things worse so I try to ignore what they say
jolly sierra
why sometimes new ppl is so annoying xd
gleaming pawn
https://youtu.be/D4uIINH52dY?t=1195
Pretty good summation of how stupid these c...
it's funny and so totally fitting that Absterge pushes The Move merch, while Pika never mentions it
but these lack of nerfs for DH all s3 and now even more insanely in s4, is just so obvious that Blizz is pushing the meta they want to see. As bizarre as that sounds, they could not be doing anything else
jolly sierra
still dont like passive aggresive ppl tbh
jolly sierra
passive aggresive here
coward energy
100%
it is, telling us indirectly the energy here is not fine without saying it
steel scarab
Blizzard's plan is to kind of "dumb down" PvP? Think about it this way; I think we all agree rogue is an extremely high skill cap class with a very low skill floor.
Maybe they DON'T want classes like rogue to be extremely good because it dissuades mediocre people from queuing for Solo Shuffle and other forms of PvP because when rogues are strong, they know they'll get stomped by skilled rogues.
Whereas, if they keep rogue below average and make the button-masher zug zug classes really strong, it'll attract more people to PvP
I'm totally guessing but that's my speculation
jolly sierra
if u wanna tell us what are u thinking be more direct
in everywhere ppl is extremely valuable for their honestity
gleaming pawn
I understand you trying to keep your own energy positive and whatever, but telling people their opinions are invalid because you think just playing what you enjoy solves things, just pisses people off
gleaming pawn
Blizzard's plan is to kind of "dumb down" PvP? Think about it this way; I think ...
I'm just positive the people who do pvp balances got the no-no touch from Rogues back in the day and just wont let it go
jolly sierra
oh i was fine w that tbh, assa real strength isnt into KB
nerfs are fine and fair, so
grave basin
Nerfs to outlaw wasn't fair though
gilded gulch
i mean the nerf just feels terrible from a gameplay pov
grave basin
Bte number going down is alrdy ass but nerfing playstyle is straight up murder
twin burrow
wasnt fair for masses, was fair for 40 players at the top lols
gritty heart
hello guys which spec is now best for 2v2
gilded gulch
dh
twin burrow
all 3 are good, sub feels very strong
grave basin
Bm
jolly sierra
MM hunter
grave basin
Mm is ass in 2s lol
gilded gulch
in before i get some rm 2s players
twin burrow
my mage did get buffed but my RM experience has been great this season compared to last. prolly the mage buffs tbh 🤣
gilded gulch
idk its just weird sub rm 2s players act like rick and morty watchers pretending they have a higher iq
when mage has a million tools for their fuckups
twin burrow
i can see that, especially now with frost
my mage can kite forever, like
i full eat and legit look away sometimes if i hav eto
twin burrow
oof
weakaura for seed?
bro getting seed'd was the worst but then winning that match felt double good
glad that mechanic is gonezo
grave basin
Jk bopped the seed
twin burrow
jk cant target the seed
bring me back the days of BFA twilight devastation on tanks in 2v2
bring me back to buying rank 3 gushing wounds x7 and climbing 300 rating cause they just bufffed gushing
gilded gulch
jk duel the dps so cant kill seed
twin burrow
at least we can gear easy and play solo bg and arena i guess.. although i am a solo queue doomer..
gilded gulch
rm has been beyond braindead in 2s forever
gilded gulch
sub ww is way more fun
gilded gulch
and you dont have infinite outs like with a mage
twin burrow
rock paper siccors
twin burrow
you guys dont like fatebound for outlaw tho? looks like you can easily manipulate the coin whe neded. (vanish, AR, and CB will all give you 2, so u can get the 7 lucky coin easily in a 'go
surreal barn
I am the worst hunter
gilded gulch
or hunters through turtle
twin burrow
idk rogue life is weird nomatter what happens i just go back to rogue.. first character in 2005 syndrome im rogue-ego'd
gilded gulch
Never forget mage with triune and resonator
"kidney bomb opener"
oh recheaped trinket win insta
grave basin
Fire mage just slaughtered your whole family in one bust
stoic spruce
I am the worst hunter
Is that a bet?
gilded gulch
when resonator could crit
i just wrote "this game is so bad"
to my mage in party chat
twin burrow
s4 slands was bad..
grave basin
Bro resonator with spear of bastion orc racial and every modifier
Mud was having a good time
stoic spruce
Slappy hands 🥰
stoic spruce
Remember when slappy hands pulled from stealth?
gilded gulch
i mean mud was notorious for necro banner onetaps
twin burrow
at least we can buy our gear now.. how tf they make us get 1 random peice a week and then 1 random peice from the weekly pvp chest.. omg what a terible fucking time.. i like to complain that our game is dying because the participation is low and the system is outdated and the company doenst focus on our content
but they have been making alot of progress, i have faith, but i wont hold my breath.
grave basin
Best part was you couldn't even see the reso in the spear
So you needed the honk alarm WA
stoic spruce
at least we can buy our gear now.. how tf they make us get 1 random peice a week...
I just got the big red button and that armor axe from raid and insta won
On my dk
Dmg scales with armor and brother I was armored
twin burrow
haha
twin burrow
remind me so i can experience ptsd
gilded gulch
they played triple dps and marinated him in 3 spites
grave basin
Top SL meme was nagura getting carried to 2.4 cause convoke was so broken s1
gilded gulch
then the rsham died 1 gcd into stun
grave basin
Hehe I just full.mooned hehe
stoic spruce
AND SOUL HARVEST
stoic spruce
Everyone was op
grave basin
Rose tinted glasses are a hell of a drug
stoic spruce
Nah
gilded gulch
90% sure i made every priest i queued into in s2 have ptsd
stoic spruce
I liked SL then too
twin burrow
ok i liked SL more then BFA but
gilded gulch
as sin rsham
twin burrow
DF is even better
stoic spruce
DF is ass
stoic spruce
Balance wise sure
grave basin
sL was cancer when we couldn't freely swap covs and needed to buy tokens for leggos
Was only good at the end
grave basin
Same
grave basin
I quit S1 after wog was like loh
twin burrow
i quit
stoic spruce
But is it fun because its balanced or fun for different reasons?
No one ever remembers having fun in balanced seasons.
twin burrow
when i was 1 shotting
by opening with ER from stealth then blue CP evis
i ahve a clip
i open with ER from stealth and evis and then vanish its 1v2..
grave basin
Yea then they nerf it by 80%
twin burrow
i was like yo im not playing to my mage cause i said i dont want to get bad habbits this shit sucks
gilded gulch
s3 bfa the best meme was
killing absterge rdruid
with double cyclotronic
from max range
twin burrow
and the fucking shield conduit from SL i hated too, cause it develoepd bad habbits. i use aweakaura now to tell when im stealthed caus iwas so used to have a perma stealth sheidl
surreal barn
Didn’t unholy just get a buff?
grave basin
0 sv hunters
twin burrow
so play sub rogue for draconic legend 👀
gilded gulch
why is the second bar pink
gleaming pawn
Didn’t unholy just get a buff?
yes, quite a good buff
stoic spruce
I remember melting kyrian outlaws as venth outlaw.
They'll still die just as easily
gilded gulch
I remember melting kyrian outlaws as venth outlaw.
majority of kyrian dust players
did 0 dam
in s3
surreal barn
0 sv hunters
Good let them eat shit
stoic spruce
majority of kyrian dust players
I absolutely FEASTED with flag/db
grave basin
stoic spruce
Ugh
grave basin
B..but I wanna push 2.4 solo
stoic spruce
I miss it
grave basin
There's an absolute meltdown on social media atm
stoic spruce
I absolutely FEASTED with flag/db
Peak outlaw btw
stoic spruce
There's an absolute meltdown on social media atm
When isn't there
grave basin
Cause sv hunter set bonus didn't get buffed like boomies
gilded gulch
flag db was way more fun
twin burrow
lol when i saw social media meltdown i thought of the music industry and hollywood getting exposed haha
grave basin
Just goes to show how disgusting the dev bias is
twin burrow
they not like us 💅
stoic spruce
I miss old gsw
twin burrow
im new to law but after learning it i realised it is actually enjoyable and different enough rotation wise but still felt like a rogue
its not actually dead right
gilded gulch
gsw just doesnt work with crackshot
grave basin
its not actually dead right
Rotation will feel a lot less smooth
But if you're whaaz you'll make it work
stoic spruce
Now it's not even good enough to be a capstone :/
grave basin
It's like if they made shadow blades gave half full CP
Makes the whole thing less smooth
stoic spruce
Crackshot lost a ton of value so who knowsssss
grave basin
Cracksjot is the only dam you have
fading blade
is it a late april fools joke tho
stoic spruce
Yeah lol
gilded gulch
but the entire outlaw rework is kinda centered around crackshot
stoic spruce
Which is ass and I hate it
grave basin
Without crackshot just play sub
stoic spruce
I'm glad crackshot is pm dedge but we got nothing to replace it with
grave basin
People still have PTSD from the stealth shield that sub used in SL
For infinite restealths
stoic spruce
sub gets more player hate
It's deserved. Sub players are terrible people.
Fake rogue
Insta block all sub rogues
gleaming pawn
damage was never Outlaw's problem to begin with. Just more proof blizzard is brain dead and is picking their balance changes from a random dart board
stoic spruce
Assa/Outlaw or reroll
grave basin
Nessper vibes
stoic spruce
damage was never Outlaw's problem to begin with. Just more proof blizzard is bra...
What's funny is the more crackshot gets nerfed, the more unjustified the float nerf is.
stoic spruce
Nope
Once something is nerfed in pvp, that's it.
Fdk still has modifiers from legion
stoic spruce
If you let it, sure
grave basin
It's their playstyle of being useless for 55 seconds
stoic spruce
And disarmed for the other 5
Gouging the trinket after an fdk trinkets disarm 🥰
I should reroll affy
I play it in SoD which I know is obv not the same as retail but I am interested now.
quaint cedar
Once something is nerfed in pvp, that's it.
Yup. Outlaw in sad shape now. Who knows when it will get to be good again. From my experience outlaw is usually trash at the start of an expansion, and now I don't even get to enjoy it being good at the end either.
twin burrow
are we just misreading/interpreting? maybe the chance for Ace up your sleeve is lower but still grants full cp?
i cant imagine it not giving full, how else can you utilize the proc?
im calling that its just a lower chance by 1% per cp*
stoic spruce
are we just misreading/interpreting? maybe the chance for Ace up your sleeve is ...
It explicitly states less cp
quaint cedar
I'd like to believe that, but the text is pretty clear on the change. Not much to misinterpret
stoic spruce
Wowhead is not always accurate
gleaming pawn
base is 5 cp when Ace procs
twin burrow
blizzard too
gleaming pawn
pvp base is now 4 cp
twin burrow
ok, so im new.. all this time when it proc'd have i/we been getting 5?
gleaming pawn
yep
stoic spruce
Ye
twin burrow
crackshot weird af anyway
surreal barn
Would you take 6combo points now
twin burrow
so less chance to do less damage in a 6 second window.. YikerZ
stoic spruce
Well
surreal barn
Or did outlaw do that already
gleaming pawn
is Outlaw rogue the first to have the fundamental playstyle of the spec gutted by a bizarre nerf?
twin burrow
we gotta get our hands on it
stoic spruce
Would you take 6combo points now
Nah
twin burrow
as someone earlier mentioned, we do fine damage.. but this is a pretty bad nerf in terms of fluidity for our burst 'go'
quaint cedar
Also guys. Less BTEs in crackshot windows = less cps spent = CDR nerfed
twin burrow
like were about uptime and surviving and being rogue CC
gleaming pawn
Also guys. Less BTEs in crackshot windows = less cps spent = CDR nerfed
exactly
twin burrow
ah nice mention, that compound does suck
stoic spruce
And float was nerfed because of crackshot
quaint cedar
Ace change was literally the worst change they could have come up with.
twin burrow
honestly
quaint cedar
Yeah float is useless now
quaint cedar
It was nerfed because of crackshot combo point generation, and now that has been neutered
stoic spruce
Ace interacts outside of crackshot builds too so why they decided to not nerf crackshot even more confuses me.
The few people not playing crackshot just get nerfed for no reason lol
twin burrow
outside of crackshot tho its just a small blesing.. with crackshot its everything it seems
quaint cedar
I know we've all memed before about outlaw being ded, but I think it's real this time. Spec is completely gimped now in pvp
exotic dove
"Improved Garrote Damage bonus now reduced to 20% in PVP Combat (was 30%)" I really hate when they word it like that cause for the past few hours I thought that was a nerf until I read again just now for Assassin Rogues
and saw its a buff
twin burrow
well i dont want to play assa and get bop'd, cloaked', dwarv racial, dragon'd, ice blocked, bubbled
quaint cedar
So bizarre to see a pvp modifier that literally makes the spec functionally play worse than in pve
gleaming pawn
"Improved Garrote Damage bonus now reduced to 20% in PVP Combat (was 30%)" I rea...
it's a nerf
stoic spruce
So bizarre to see a pvp modifier that literally makes the spec functionally play...
Brother you have got to try unholy
gleaming pawn
in PvP, imp garrote was increased by 30%
stoic spruce
Literally different specs
gleaming pawn
now it will only be 20%
twin burrow
it is very easy to say (note: this will mean 10% less damage overall for the talent)
imaging not typing a sentance
or spelling correctly like me
quaint cedar
I ain't trying anything. I'll wait for blizzard to fix outlaw. And if they never do... well I've got plenty of other games to play
twin burrow
its a coproation that is owned by a corporation that is now owned by another corporation
quaint cedar
I'm not paying $15 a month for this shit though
twin burrow
and now there are 6 different WoW's going around
stoic spruce
They say they're about transparency but I've yet to see it
twin burrow
and our version has 3 ways to play, and out play is the least cared about
astrium, u can call me out now
🏳️
stoic spruce
Lmaoo
twin burrow
someone tag them lol i blocked them
stoic spruce
@ornate quiver
twin burrow
theres your flowers astri 🌹
stoic spruce
But yeah, nerfing damage through screwing up gameplay is bad design
If KS casted dispatch, we'd have a strong contender
twin burrow
time to create a giga 5 combo point build
twin burrow
bruh why you lying Drake jr.
i see not 1, not 2 but SEVEN combo points in this build
twin burrow
oh christ i sucked blood once and now u guys call me vamp its so passé
ok so we cook a 5 point build
talk to you in a little
twin burrow
we squeezin lemonz
stoic spruce
Gl
twin burrow
iite
stoic spruce
Take my build
twin burrow
brb
twin burrow
ty
stoic spruce
Find a way to to HO
And take SD
See if you can move the CP talent to Audacity
You know what? Fuck it. Cold Blood
I'm off the deep end on this one
fading blade
last few hours of blasting b4 rerolling mm
stoic spruce
I'm working tonight too :/
nova sentinel
Yeah, MM at boomkins...wtf
steel scarab
This is your daily reminder that Demon Hunters and Monks outperformed Assassination Rogues in the AWC AND have more representation on the SS ladder, yet assassination got nerfed and nothing happened to Demon Hunters D:
gilded gulch
This is your daily reminder that Demon Hunters and Monks outperformed Assassinat...
didnt sin just get buffed
tawny kestrel
didnt sin just get buffed
only kingsbane dot
steel scarab
didnt sin just get buffed
Our main DPS ability, Garrote, got nerfed. And the instant damage portion of Kingsbane (often the important part of it) got nerfed by an additional 12%
The Kingsbane DOT got buffed, but you need uptime on the target for that part to be good, which means if you're target swapping to cross CC after applying Kingsbane, this buff is not doing much
harsh steppe
gm
jolly sierra
hunter is using flintstone gummies
long eagle
Has anyone tried heavy mastery build this ssn as outlaw? maybe replace crackshot with KS or GsW after the nerfs
stoic spruce
The nerfs aren't live yet so no one has.
vital socket
Mastery outlaw this is the way
steel flame
jolly sierra
dude matches are disgustingly unfair today
just a lot of crit damage
and a lot of ferocious bites
steel scarab
I went 3-3 and gained.... 2 points lol
harsh steppe
oof
harsh steppe
i'd tap it
harsh steppe
managed it
gz!
jolly sierra
Where are these daggers from?
from the trading post
thank u very much dude, hope u can achiv the same
last jasper
Shit. Looks cool
jolly sierra
ye matches well w s2 xmog
wintry dew
Shit. Looks cool
The daggers are actually blue btw xd
last jasper
The daggers are actually blue btw xd
Yea, I know. I liked the model itself
harsh steppe
https://youtu.be/q6crg5K_S7E?si=qnk5FYssAJw0kxoI
wanton breach
I'm glad rogue gets immediately nerfed if it somewhat looks strong
would never happen to moonkin or dh
or windwankers
holy crap, outlaw rogues doing 70k dps? better hit them with some nerfs
last jasper
Waiting for a double dh awc
wanton breach
they're doing almost DOUBLE the damage of their healers?! can't have that
ignore the dh and ww in the details pls
last jasper
Cdew prob could’ve match that outlaw dam 😂
brazen drift
Still a sub main 
brazen drift
Assa is so good rn too.
brazen drift
kiss me first
stoic spruce
There's nothing I wouldn't do to have 1 less sub main on the ladder
So get over here
Be warned, I'm a great kisser
wintry dew
Right?!
forest root
anyone know how long til EU server resets quests?
pvp quests that is
wintry dew
anyone know how long til EU server resets quests?
pvp quests that is
You mean world quests or weekly quests?
forest root
You mean world quests or weekly quests?
the weeklys, like the sparks quest
forest root
cool! thanks dude!
jaunty quiver
Hey all, is mastery/spree build the new way to go after the changes do we think
wintry dew
Our beta testers didn't even had time to play with nerfed law
harsh steppe
But, sub baby all day.
quaint cedar
Hey all, is mastery/spree build the new way to go after the changes do we think
I noticed during AWC that Trill was already going more mastery heavy and had a bit higher damage than other outlaws in the tourney so probably not a bad idea
I'm not convinced it will be enough to save outlaw from the trash bin though
grave basin
Isn't mastery just more main gouche
Doesn't seem to be very impactful but I could be wrong
quaint cedar
More damage on main gauche. Does not affect proc chance
Stacking it does add up, we did that in S2 when outlaw was dogshit and it helped a bit. Probably not ever a good sign to have to be going heavy mastery on outlaw
Mastery outlaw would be for higher sustain damage rather than burst, but blizzard just decided we don't have burst anymore so who cares
stoic spruce
HO/KS outlaw is back baybee
steel scarab
How many PvP upgrades do we get this week, it's hard for my brain to keep track
(I'm saying this as a guy who played 3 SS rounds last night with the wrong neckpiece equipped)
stoic spruce
I miss 20 minute slice and dice
solar bronze
I miss combat. 🥲
wintry dew
I miss combat. 🥲
What exactly do you miss about combat?
surreal barn
Riposte
wintry dew
Anything else?
solar bronze
Not being a pirate.
steel scarab
Not having to manage twenty spinning plates
Not having to press a button to roll a pair of dice to see what random self buff I get
Spinning plates that feel impactful and good make for good gameplay. As Assassination when I Garrote someone, that feels good and I can see, through the ticking damage, directly the effect it has on my opponent
When I press Roll the Bones and I get Grand Melee that just does not feel good. In fact, I have said for years now that by simply taking Roll the Bones off the GCD, it would make Outlaw feel 3000x better
But using a precious GCD to roll a die and get a random buff just does not feel good at all.
steel scarab
I have to say, with how much the rogue playerbase complains about disliking the random aspect of Roll the Bones, it is hilarious, almost respectably so, that Blizzard doubled down by adding a coin flipping aspect to our hero talent tree
"We have heard your complaints loud and clear. You did not like getting 1 of 6 outcomes. We have added a new random chance mechanic, and that outcome will be only 1 of 2 options. We hope you enjoy this mechanic!"
surreal barn
Needs to be an endcap talent called Jackpot where a slot machine rolls over your head
Get 🎰 and it’s a ridiculous buff
A killer
steel scarab
Yeah, like a 0.00001% chance to instant kill your target. Except people would complain, and after a half a content patch, it would get changed from an instant kill to a 10% self damage buff (reduced to 6% in PvP combat)
halcyon timber
Whether one agrees with it or not, it creates dynamic reactionary play instead 1-2-3 waltzing. The fatebound coin is pretty fun
halcyon timber
The blast from the coin when planning and having guaranteed flips from certain interactions leads to a big hit regardless of which side
Same with building a fat coup de grace in trickster and all the toys we received. Yeah agreed feint isn’t great but there are other triggers and if that was the stipulation the developers saw fit to gain the new stuff then so be it and ill deal with it maturely.
steel scarab
@halcyon timber I'm mostly joking, I haven't looked at the new talents
halcyon timber
Right on man, the trees after playing them don’t hold us into x talents, benefit all aspects of what you choose as a rogue and are all equally fun. Just some maturity is required.
Fatebound got some pretty cool shiz going for it and deathstalker probably will too in its own way. Im thankful there are ways to augment core kit emphasis and special attacks instead of adding a new azerite beam type silly thing
quaint cedar
Yeah, like a 0.00001% chance to instant kill your target. Except people would co...
This is so true that it hurts. And somehow we'll all cope that it's actually fine and great design too.
Outlaw players are simultaneously both the best at dooming and coping
safe pelican
As assassination should I prioritize haste or mastery , I’m doing mastery rn so my bleeds do more dmg but my 2s partner said to go haste curious to know what is better
surreal barn
me, every maintenance
It’s the best time to read the forums lol
People come out of the woodwork
stoic spruce
Outlaw players are simultaneously both the best at dooming and coping
How's outlaw?
quaint cedar
Doomed
oak frost
do any of the specs want any of the bullion trinkets for pvp? or is it just rings?
stoic spruce
I knew it
quaint cedar
stoic spruce
Literally us rn
wintry dew
do any of the specs want any of the bullion trinkets for pvp? or is it just ring...
Probably nothing
Unless diurna ring has vers
fading blade
Well at least DH can use t3 so there’s a positive
untold remnant
https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/character/us/tichondrius/wangge this guy went full mast now
And thorncaller's main hand 😛
jolly sierra
why is using adapt trink UGHHHH
tawny kestrel
And thorncaller's main hand 😛
well hes obviously an idiot
last jasper
why is using adapt trink UGHHHH
Human
surreal barn
Is panda land today
jolly sierra
it is?
surreal barn
Asking
last jasper
adapt is a free bait
There is a second option. He is an idiot 😂
wintry dew
well hes obviously an idiot
In the dmg nerfed / can break CC?
tawny kestrel
the dmg is nerfed it does quite literally nothing
and it has half the stats of a normal weapon
wintry dew
👍
jolly sierra
There is a second option. He is an idiot 😂
yeah that
wintry dew
also heritage armor for trolls and draenei btw
jolly sierra
WTB panda heritage armor
waxen meteor
So pandoria is opened after maintenance today?
surreal barn
Nope next week
waxen meteor
It seems this season is really fast
Also 2 bullions added
Look like people will be out of things to do in a month
gleaming pawn
It seems this season is really fast
Yes and no. This season will last until TWW prepatch in the Fall. But it’s a junk season and Blizzard knows they have to make it easy and chill to get anyone actually playing it
waxen meteor
Yes and no. This season will last until TWW prepatch in the Fall. But it’s a jun...
Yeah I mean the process is like super fast
I feel in a month most pve guys will be almost done
Of course we pvp people can fight with each other forever
gleaming pawn
Look like people will be out of things to do in a month
Also yes 🙂 which is why we’ll have Pandamonium to help keep people busy. But if that isn’t your thing, this season is a good opportunity to save your sub money for a bit
harsh steppe
what are y’all doing during this long maintenance i am dying
gleaming pawn
Working, so I’m all for the maintenance stretching on until I get home tonight 😛
jolly sierra
At least in the promotional pic
its the same as the one from TBC promotional art advertising draeneis
quaint cedar
I'm just waiting for servers to go back up so someone can tell me how doomed outlaw is now
(Still at work right now)
quaint cedar
It looks cooler in the promo art than in game
halcyon timber
Surely someone digs it. Artistic expression is a thing after all. Transmogrification also exists.
Not my monkey, not my circus though.
quaint cedar
Yeah
I do think it's a bit lame though that it's heritage armor made specially for draenei and they did nothing with the hooves
halcyon timber
People can disagree with things, but don’t be an ass about it
Yeah prob only could do x or just decided to do x at the time
quaint cedar
But I don't have any Draenei anyways so not by problem lol
halcyon timber
Yeah , still cool someone tried to make something different. I’ll leave it at that.
wintry dew
I feel in a month most pve guys will be almost done
keep in mind these bullions can THEN be farmed by the PvE players on their alts, so this is actually AMAZING to play other classes since you'll be able to not worry much about gear
surreal barn
This actually looks cool
jolly sierra
This actually looks cool
ye
grave basin
how hard is it to get into a mythic dungeon
surreal barn
But this 🤔
grave basin
i havent done a single mythic dungeon ever
harsh steppe
i'd tap it
surreal barn
LOL
grave basin
surely there will be yolo groups for it this week right