But it might become a lot easier next weeks for pve folks get itemlevels up
#pvp
waxen meteor
solar bronze
waxen meteor
I’ll get that mastery dagger as an offhand next week
You can do one lfg and already get it this week if you want
But starting item level is too low
waxen meteor
I used my first bullion on an xmog
Still the starting item level is sub 500
don’t think it worth it
surreal barn
I got like 60
surreal barn
I’ll have to check
Ever since 2100 each game gave like 3 though
I have at least 150 drakes
waxen meteor
I remember it’s each win round in shuttle gives you one crest
But I never paid attention to it
surreal barn
Interesting
waxen meteor
The problem is crest has different levels
Your first few upgrades require low level crest
Which you will not get from 2100+ games..
Your CR decides what level of crest you get, not amount of crest
surreal barn
Logging in to see what total might be
waxen meteor
But at the same time if you can somehow enter a simple raid (normal difficultly) you just do some bosses you get your first upgrades crest done
I think up till item level 502 or 504
Then you need to do heroic raid or myth2-6
surreal barn
Oh shit I can downgrade crest
waxen meteor
Then it would be myth6+, hard to find team now or 2100+ games
waxen meteor
Oh shit I can downgrade crest
Yeah at 1:1 ratio
surreal barn
Nice
waxen meteor
I strongly recommend you to take a normal raid…
surreal barn
lol
waxen meteor
If any friend could just take you in team
Normal raid is super easy now
And it takes only like 30 mins to finish enough bosses
Especially early bosses are super easy
Instead of using 60 highest level crest to convert (that takes 60 winning rounds in solo)
Conquest and world trophy gear is getting you over 490 this week or next week, that’s more than enough for normal raid
surreal barn
Okay
waxen meteor
@surreal barn and keep in mind once you convert down you can’t convert back….
60 wins takes a lot of time in solo..
Even if you win at 100% rate it still takes the queue time …
surreal barn
Queues have actually been fast
But I know what you mean
That mastery ring actually looks legit
Wonder if I just go for that
waxen meteor
That mastery ring actually looks legit
Don’t recall mastery ring I will check a bit later when I log on today
It looks like we might want double blue silky this season instead cc boot
wintry dew
It looks like we might want double blue silky this season instead cc boot
Bsl is good for PvE, idk if you can abuse it in pvp
Due to the health threshold
At least boots work in pretty much all your goes
waxen meteor
Bsl is good for PvE, idk if you can abuse it in pvp
Yeah that’s quite tricky trade off. I think bsl scales super well this season but as you said especially for sin keep the hp threshold
At the same time bsl boot can have mastery secondary stat as baseline which is another advantage
waxen meteor
I am not sure how crit is really calculated in wow pvp
tbh
i am quite good at math/data irl, but i never bother to do learn wow stat again after coming back 10 years later
Like if wow pvp crit dmg = normal dmg * 1.5
then our 20% crit dmg talent, does it make final dmg 1.7?
or it's crit dmg total as normal dmg * 1.5 gets multipled by 1.2?
steel scarab
That's a great question. But
Since the tooltips in this game, on a GOOD day, are absolutely awful, it's hard to say lol
I would assume it's this way:
If a normal PvE crit is 200% DMG
And a PvP crit is 150% damage
A PvP crit with 2/2 Lethality is probably 180% damage
sick wasp
he doesnt have a stable team and he looks like he doesnt enjoy it
halcyon timber
I am not sure how crit is really calculated in wow pvp
I would calculate on a dummy and factor in 30% physical DR as dummies do have resistance to phys and magic school but i dunno the magic resistances.
I would then run a table / graph and have a crit vs normal vs glancing blows. Glancing blows have variation as noncrit +- and whatever the frick else factors.
I would also test the same way on the same dummies with/without the talents and just use raw hits. For personal data collection. Lethality does make generators hit for 170% (tested and confirmed using those as I get nerdy about it) as an example and deeper strategem does apply the 5% accurately where the only factor are those 3 categories of hits and combo points spent.
May or may not be how they still factor in stuff , not including versatility as well but we can treat that as a constant I guess to “normalize” values as we are seeking a base as the hypothesis.
shell wigeon
Just getting back into wow after some years off. Any suggestions on a pvp guide for rogue?
pliant mauve
Shadenox (who I think posts here) has really good content on assa. For the rest I have no idea.
frosty elm
how big is outlaw 4pc for pvp?
mossy torrent
guys, long time not playing retail, tryin to catchup. got one problem. how the fk i kill healer especialy priests?
mossy torrent
thod so, was going mad, was waiting to set some nice cc chain into interupt cast
but bruh he dont cast at all and just stayiung full hp
nova viper
U can just cc him and kill his dps
harsh steppe
gm
harsh steppe
when should i be switching in dismantle over another pvp talent? and which one? i always use shadowy duel, thief's bargain, & smoke bomb
sick wasp
dismantle should be a default talent unless u are qued into casters
harsh steppe
oh shit
i thought the default was what i have now lol
sick wasp
or maybe recognized a target that would give u an advantage by using dismantle
TB is fine but not ideal
harsh steppe
do i switch it in for SD or TB?
i'm terrible at SD
harsh steppe
ok tysm sap ❤️
will this macro work properly? having a hard time with my sap / stealthie sap macro since i can't easily test it out
i just want it to stealth, unless i'm already in stealth, then i want it to detect stealthies to sap
past trout
should work? You can also replace /targetenemyplayer with
/targetenemy [nodead]
harsh steppe
oh which is better?
past trout
oh which is better?
just try both i guess, i don't wanna mislead you
wanton breach
should work? You can also replace /targetenemyplayer with
```/targetenemy [nodea...
you want to target an enemy player that is noharm?
stoic spruce
Pve?
past trout
more like healing macros and stuff
harsh steppe
is there a way to prioritize my target if i already have a target tho? worried a stealthie will be near me and if im trying to sap a target, it does the wrong one
harsh steppe
CCs
sick wasp
was trying to get an answer,ik what he wrote
anyway,because im not into meaningless chatting,u get dismantle coz its both offensive and defensive
u press to save or u press to apply more pressure
denying dismantle coz ''million more cc's'' is as good an excuse as for ppl not ever entering arena
harsh steppe
ok so this is what i got, it will:
- always prioritize a target if i have something selected
- sap pets too
- stealth me if i'm not stealthed already
right?
past trout
is there a way to prioritize my target if i already have a target tho? worried a...
Im not sure. whenever i do mouseover stuff, that prioritizes, i do soemthing like
/cast [@mouseover] Kick, Kick```
And then that prioritizes mouseover, and if i dont have a mouseover, just casts on my current targetLol that reply
past trout
ok so this is what i got, it will:
* always prioritize a target if i have someth...
you might be trying to do too many things with one macro :/
harsh steppe
also is this true? do i want /cast !stealth in all my damage abilities?
harsh steppe
you might be trying to do too many things with one macro :/
but might not 😉
harsh steppe
i have a smol brain so i need as least keybinds as possible lol
sick wasp
ok so this is what i got, it will:
* always prioritize a target if i have someth...
that macro is kinda whatever.In 1v1 scenarios with a hunter or a lock it might as well sap the lock as its a rangecheck assuming u are spaming the macro.It can even swap saps between a hunter and its pet putting him into dr and enabling him to flare or trap
niche at best
if anything ild put the sap into a target enemy player
harsh steppe
ah ok so leave it on targetenemy player
sick wasp
as in it wont backfire
harsh steppe
ok sweet!
sick wasp
just dont overload ur UI with shit
u wont be using
it floods ur brain
with bullshit
and u most likely wont use it
harsh steppe
yep i remember you telling me that when i went crazy with addon questions lol so i been trying to minimize more & more
sick wasp
remember being simple and direct is an advantage
rogue must be like that
and visceral on top of that
past trout
remember being simple and direct is an advantage
In pvp and dating
sick wasp
In pvp and dating
long past dating at this point but also true 😛
harsh steppe
shadow strike & cheap shot can always be used when the other can be used?
i have a WA i made that shows when cheap shot is available, same with Shadow strike, i think i've seen them up at the same time all the time is that right?
wintry dew
shadow strike & cheap shot can always be used when the other can be used?
i have...
both need you to be in stealth / shadowdance
harsh steppe
ok sweet just making sure
i'll go ahead and create one icon for both then that will help me a lot tyty
wintry dew
i mean
why
you have to manually go into stealth for both to be available, or shadowdance
twin burrow
theres alot of ways to adress the stealth bar
id stay away from macros unless u are well versed or willing to learn and get upset sometimes when they dont work
harsh steppe
id stay away from macros unless u are well versed or willing to learn and get up...
i am willing to learn always 
past trout
Guys just get a gamer GF
Link to guide? Rotation?
wintry dew
You Will either be lucky or fucked.
If she plays an healer, your life becomes easier
If she (and this is my case) plays a DPS, you have no idea the amount of chill fights we have to get our priest's PI
harsh kiln
is there any reason i can't macro Echoing reprimand and secret technique together?
when i do
it only uses whatever comes first in the macro
that should work right? but it doesnt
wintry dew
Both are gcds
harsh kiln
should still be able to use them one after the other right?
like if one is on cd the other should trigger`?
wintry dew
In theory it should but idk.
wintry dew
Maybe it's best you use both separately
harsh kiln
that's waht i'm doing atm
vocal surge
harsh steppe
that should work right? but it doesnt
you don’t want that anyways because you want to cast sec tec first
tough spruce
like if one is on cd the other should trigger`?
Try castsequence
harsh kiln
you don’t want that anyways because you want to cast sec tec first
idc about what spell comes first atm, i just want teh macro to work:)
harsh steppe
yeah use castsequence then
wintry dew
more BtE and stuns
twin burrow
@harsh kiln your looking for a castsequence macro
surreal barn
Don’t cast sequence that shit
stoic spruce
You're asking for hurt
steel scarab
@wintry dew idk if it's that simple dude. My fiance is a healer and trying to arena with her caused probably more scary arguments than we've ever had lol
That's why I said okay you know what, we are hard stuck at 1600 in 2v2 and every time we queue I feel like we're going to break up, maybe I'll try solo shuffle
wintry dew
Oh i don't pvp with my GF, it would be a death sentence.
past trout
that should work right? but it doesnt
/castsequence Echoing Reprimand, Secret Technique```
Altho, I wouldn't recommend it. Better as separate bindsAlso yeah I just read the rest, sry bro
sick wasp
Guys just get a gamer GF
made her play a druid for starters,now she's into key pushing with her priest
wintry dew
made her play a druid for starters,now she's into key pushing with her priest
Mine hates pvp but enjoys parsing / doing m+ and pushing above reward level, which is usually where i stop
sick wasp
Mine hates pvp but enjoys parsing / doing m+ and pushing above reward level, whi...
once u get them started its all over
they are gaming harder than u
wintry dew
Its already happening D:
sick wasp
now i get to pay half the apartment plus her sub
dont do the mistake boys,stay single
wintry dew
i do m+ casually, trying 8/9s, some 10's for the portal
meanwhile she trying to do 11+ and up
minmaxing and using raidbots.com hourly
wintry dew
Tbf MM hunters are kinda neat this season xD
https://clips.twitch.tv/AcceptableBashfulKumquatUWot-ck9uOClHN_LNOukF this is a guildie of mine
(in this case, the hunter, not the streamer)
Look at details
💀
sick wasp
pumpy
wintry dew
They SHOULD not have survived that pack
sick wasp
yup
stoic spruce
They SHOULD not have survived that pack
Survive..? Survival?? SURVIVAL HUNTER???
RAHHHH
chrome schooner
what if deathmark got replaced by vendetta !
surreal barn
Don’t toy with me
lol
The more i think about it the sillier coin flips in the middle of battle sound
Like what on earth
last jasper
2mil. wtf is this?
wintry dew
PvE m+ stuff
sick wasp
what if deathmark got replaced by vendetta !
howton lost 😦
i think its time to see some assassination action
i feel like sin would have been amazing into that frost mage/demo/priest comp,like liquid did yday into that shaman/druid/dh yday
last jasper
had a 3 day break. went -150 rating in 3games
steel scarab
From a PvP perspective, am I supposed to do anything with these 2 Antique Bronze Bullions?
safe pelican
had a 3 day break. went -150 rating in 3games
That’s about how it goes , stay in skirmish until you burn the rust off
Tich Skirms been hot all day nothing but comp 3v3’s playing better matchups than my actual shuffle lobbies lmao
This is how skirmish should be to actually be beneficial to transfer over to shuffle , downloaded the skill capped addon today been tweaking it before i hop back in SS
last jasper
That’s about how it goes , stay in skirmish until you burn the rust off
its better to uninstall than playing skirmishes
safe pelican
I disagree
Strongly
It’s hard to practice muscle memory when you’re getting beat to a pulp cause you don’t know how to play your class/ spec
sick wasp
From a PvP perspective, am I supposed to do anything with these 2 Antique Bronze...
trinkets maybe,if there is a small possibility something becomes arena tech would most likely be that
else transmogs
there are some stuff
also a mount
last jasper
It’s hard to practice muscle memory when you’re getting beat to a pulp cause you...
idk what ushould learn from skrimishes when u oneshot ppl with 400k evises
safe pelican
idk what ushould learn from skrimishes when u oneshot ppl with 400k evises
Who’s hitting 400k evis??
send vid
steel scarab
@sick wasp good to know, maybe I'll save it for the cool looking mount
Some of the trinkets look absolutely cool, but I can't see any of them being better than the 2 piece trinket PvP set bonus
sick wasp
Some of the trinkets look absolutely cool, but I can't see any of them being bet...
yeah its very difficult trinkets become a thing in arena the way it is right now
but cant see anything else outside those since the ilvl scale makes them irrelevant
safe pelican
i dont vod my gameplay
Not bad at all tbh haven’t touched sub this season yet but might have to hop on my main and see what’s up
last jasper
Not bad at all tbh haven’t touched sub this season yet but might have to hop on ...
The guy was undergeared. That’s was the point
steel scarab
Been in SS queue for 33 mins and no games
Truly cursed
43 mins 😦
FINALLY A QUEUE
OH GOD THE 6th PERSON DID NOT ACCEPT LOL
okay boys, my patience was rewarded
I'm in a game after 47 minutes!
dim dagger
damn raiku just disappeared
gleaming pawn
yep that was abolutely nuts
nova sentinel
Anyone have a link for Fatebound that actually works?
wintry dew
Anyone have a link for Fatebound that actually works?
wdym?
nova sentinel
The wow head one doesn't work for all the talents
last jasper
-200rating in 4 games. what a great evening 😄
leaden agate
can we not use bullions for pvp gear?
surreal barn
We can not.
harsh steppe
do we know the date of the new sub rework yet?
harsh steppe
the upcoming fatebound or deathstalker stuff
wintry dew
its not a rework bro
its just aditional talents
and it comes with the next expansion
twin burrow
do we know the date of the new sub rework yet?
?? wait im in the dark, there is a sub rework?? 👀
twin burrow
📠
i got p hyped hypers name checks out
feels like trickster sub and fatebound outlaw for pvp , is that what others have been saying as well?
wintry dew
Hyper do tend to overhype random situations that he doesnt not totally understand
We haven't been saying anything for now
twin burrow
well thats my take lols
wintry dew
and there's still a tree to be released
twin burrow
my take also is we will see a pvp reward/rating change this in 11.x.x
it has to happen this xpac
twin burrow
were missing asss/sub
harsh steppe
yes sorry meant new trees i suppose mb *
sorry i wasn’t clear; do we know the date of when the new sub talent tree information is released like the outlaw one just was
wintry dew
harsh steppe
dang ok ty
wintry dew
Outlaw mains go brrrrrr
And yeah overall it doesn't seem really fun for assa
You should check the pins on #tww-assassination
jolly sierra
lemme check
gleaming pawn
no one likes Fatebound, just like Trickster
somehow Rogues are going to have the 3 worst trees of all classes
gleaming pawn
more RNG is shit
wintry dew
Just isn't what we needed as assa
gleaming pawn
and if we've seen Fatebound and Trickster and people still have hope for Deathstalker, they are huffing that cope hard
wintry dew
But outlaw I believe can take a lot of value out of it
That's just dooming
Trickster was the only tree that didn't make sense and play wise is pretty shit
jolly sierra
read the channel
1% overall without stacking coins is awful
the thing i liked the most ironically
is the shadowstep talent which doesnt implies RNG lol
wintry dew
Using it a second time within 3 seconds?
jolly sierra
yeah would be funny to kite
wintry dew
Yeah seems cool
stoic spruce
Dude
I'm so hopeful outlaw won't be forced into crackshot again
1 season was enough lol
wintry dew
We just gotta wait and see
jolly sierra
seems like deathstalker is the last stand for hero talents
stoic spruce
There's also the talent changes we haven't gotten yet.
wintry dew
Exactly, those might happen
stoic spruce
If deathstalker is cool, I'm running assa too.
Gotta give the undead homies some love
wintry dew
I'm also hopeful for deathstalker
stoic spruce
I'll probably play it just because the undead tie in
wintry dew
I find fatebound really okay for it's name
stoic spruce
I'll make it work if it's bad >.>
wintry dew
Just not for assa
wintry dew
Outlaw will be huge in my honest opinion
wintry dew
I can't quite remember trickster
stoic spruce
KS finally has an interaction with something
wintry dew
Just the feint part
wintry dew
Good
stoic spruce
Because that's what sub needs ofc
wintry dew
I like ks as an ability
stoic spruce
Same
wintry dew
Pressing it feels awesome
wintry dew
... Just don't have them on!
wintry dew
jolly sierra
if is sub related can suppose could work well that talent tree
tbh the thing i dislike the most about outlaw is the RNG, i only saw they magnified that instead
xd
pastel burrow
i get why people aren't hyped for fatebound but man it's thematically cool af
wintry dew
Exactly
pastel burrow
flipping a coin and shooting dudes, outlaws stylin
stoic spruce
I hope and pray on this beautiful Sunday that the outlaw tier set turns into a talent or made baseline.
wintry dew
I wish
pastel burrow
god losing the 4set is gonna feel so bad
wintry dew
Imma sleep now, I'm currently a rock now, good night pvpers
stoic spruce
Hot take
I like sepsis
Hmmmm
Idea
Take my build, cram sepsis, KiR, and, I can't believe I'm going to say this, Echoing Reprimand.
No ER.
I can't bear to read that
I miss flag
:(
vague summit
ugh i hate seeing pika lose
tropic mason
druid clone 
havoc damage
vague summit
yeah.. i don't see how they can win on this one
tropic mason
lp has way too much pressure compared to the move
absterge running out of mana every game
exzist can just do all the damage and dipi able to turret for free
yep big rip
twin burrow
damn rip pika
vague summit
DH needs a nerf lmao
tropic mason
ye
vague summit
good grief
tropic mason
kinda surpirsed only 1 huge dh this tourney
tropic mason
at least on na , didnt check eu too hard
twin burrow
at least we can all vibe to bbl drizzy
vague summit
yeah they'll figure it out
tropic mason
cant wait to see next tourney to be the same shit
vague summit
I assume that’s why no one cares about PvP lol
I do really enjoy it.. which is why I wish it had better support
stoic spruce
10 minutes of no one dying and then someone dying all of a sudden
jolly sierra
dude
the farmers called another guy when i killed the lock
then called a ret, was doable
then called a dh
wtf
is that a mafia?
hidden dome
Man, getting 5 minute queue times in 2s
You are really starting to feel how dead the game is
or at least the pvp aspect of it
jolly sierra
come to my server and watch how ppl will bring thugs to kill someone else farming
last jasper
come to my server and watch how ppl will bring thugs to kill someone else farmin...
What are u farming?
past trout
i actually think Blizz is doing the right thing by focusing on BGs for TWW
jolly sierra
What are u farming?
zaralek glowspore
sick wasp
love to see it
only by sending ppl and keep them occupied just in fear of
u already did your job
jolly sierra
love to see it
no yet till i got them off my server
wanton breach
come to my server and watch how ppl will bring thugs to kill someone else farmin...
you just need more thugs of your own
become the zaralek warlord
jolly sierra
you just need more thugs of your own
be my guys
stoic spruce
i actually think Blizz is doing the right thing by focusing on BGs for TWW
The floodgates to nerf dk more
past trout
The floodgates to nerf dk more
never4get, unholy in cata/mop 
Tbf, mop to me was my favourite expansion for BGs, i'd literally play every class and try to top dmg on each
assa rogue, just running around dot-ing people, also the build with Shuriken toss / deadly throw + burst of speed 
wanton breach
assa rogue, just running around dot-ing people, also the build with Shuriken tos...
i miss deadly throw 😦
past trout
burst of speed 
wanton breach
that as well but it was pretty broken
wintry dew
im sure homies will read this
Man you gave me the worst idea
jolly sierra
Man you gave me the worst idea
tell me
wintry dew
wintry dew
XDDDDDD
jolly sierra
pin that shit @potent pivot
wintry dew
I've been putting prompts on the AI since I've read that
jolly sierra
i see
potent pivot
_>
wanton breach
that should be your profile pic, panda
at least once you aquire the status of zaralek warlord
jolly sierra
ye
jolly sierra
ill keep u up to date
if i see them again after the report
im calling assistance service
wintry dew
I love Mondays
jolly sierra
u wouldnt be garfield friend then
stoic spruce
Nermal!
forest root
Hey guys, brand new player to wow here. I'm interested in rogue but I hear it's very hard to learn. How true is that? I'm mainly wanting to do bgs and open world pvp
I dont care for arenas
wanton breach
welcome, it's not that hard to learn and can be good in bgs - it's not much of a brawler but more of a stealth op in bgs
stoic spruce
Hey guys, brand new player to wow here. I'm interested in rogue but I hear it's ...
You want Assassination or Subtlety
Assa is easier to learn
forest root
welcome, it's not that hard to learn and can be good in bgs - it's not much of a...
I'm honestly more of a 1v1 type in open world. Only will bg for gear so whatever is best for 1v1
Either assa or sub
?
wanton breach
sub
forest root
Alright ill start with it even if assa is easier. I dont want to learn a spec then have to relearn another later on
Is sub MUCH harder than assa?
wintry dew
Is sub MUCH harder than assa?
Just so you understand... Wpvp has been dead for some expansions now
Assa is easier
Sub is the 1v1 spec
forest root
I just noticed on my other character that I do see people in open world so it might be nice to engage
wintry dew
Not really
forest root
Why not?
wintry dew
Point number one: flying exists
wanton breach
point number two: healers are unkillable in world pvp unless you massively outnumber them or they are afk
wintry dew
No one doing serious pvp will be outside of valdrakken
Flying kinda killed wpvp
War mode finished the job
wintry dew
Nah not really
Your best bet is to try murlok.io
There you have all the pvp info you need
Might be hard to understand it right away
Any doubts after checking the website you might have will surely be answered here
stoic spruce
Not having seperate bases for horde+alliance is the real death
Bfa was peak wpvp. Fight me.
The nazj battles 🥰🥰🤤🤤
Loading into Nazj was like the wow version of D-Day
wintry dew
Loading into Nazj was like the wow version of D-Day
And why? NO FLYING
stoic spruce
No, because they're at your FACTION BASE
They're AT YOUR DOOR
KEEL HAUL THE LOT OF THEM YARRRR
wintry dew
I cant seem to find rotations on murlok
There aren't really "rotations" but people will fight over this
wintry dew
They're AT YOUR DOOR
It was so much fun I admit
stoic spruce
Rage inducing to be on the receiving on though lmaoo
stoic spruce
Yeah when I just wanted to do dailies and go do irl stuff def lol
Load in and dead from 17 DHs in 4 seconds
forest root
There aren't really "rotations" but people will fight over this
I'm sure there's somewhat of a simple base "rotation" people follow as in spenders etc
Obviously pvp shifts and changes as you fight but everyone always has a base plan. I'd call that a rotation.
wintry dew
Fair enough
I haven't played sub this season (which is the same as last season) and a lot changed so I don't have a real answer to give you
last jasper
I'm sure there's somewhat of a simple base "rotation" people follow as in spende...
Dance>evis/rupture/kidbey>sepsis>sec tec>cs>evis>cs>evis
With blades and stuff
wintry dew
What's the opener D:
pastel burrow
probably the same as above but a cheapshot before it
harsh steppe
@forest root
shadowblades > cheap shot > shadow dance/symbols of death/trinket macro > secret tech > er
you'll want this macro as your "buffs" macro
make sure the badge trinket matches your macro number, here i have it in my 14th slot, so it's "/use 14"
this is the talent loadout for that rotation if you need
BUQAcWb37Z8KXj8LlE1rTPXfsBAk0SAAAAAAItkkUSEkikEiAHIJJRi0SJJJlWIcgkIgSEAAAASgA
wpvp is not dead and yes you're correct, you definitely want a plan
wintry dew
Fair enough
last jasper
Agree with royal. Wpvp kinda dead since bfa
harsh steppe
are they increasing the cap or are you making a new toon?
wintry dew
They are increasing the cap
There hasn't been an expansion where the level cap didn't increase
Fun fact: the smallest level cap increase we got was Wotlk - Cata - MoP by only increasing the level cap by 5 between expansions. 80 - 85 - 90
harsh steppe
ooo nice that'll be fun
steel scarab
I'm there, man
I guess there aren't a ton of people doing Solo Shuffle at this point
I got so bored I queued for a PUG Heroic Amirdrassil, having never done one before. We got to Smolderon and wiped 4 times. With people dropping after each wipe and having to sit and wait for the leader to find more PUGs in between, I was just like, man, now I remember why I quit raiding
Not to mention I was the last one alive all 4 attempts, like, I know rogues have a lot of defensives, but how TF is everyone dying to this idiot boss?
wintry dew
Oh I can tell you why
1st: amidrassil isn't on fated week yet, which means bosses are in theory "easier";
2nd: the Ilvl jump made people believe they don't need to do mechanics;
3rd: any pleb can get to 500 Ilvl without truly raiding or doing m+.
What's happening is that you either know how to invite people, or that happens.
I did heroic vault in a single night with pugs and yesterday I did heroic aberrus in a single night, it's about who to invite
steel scarab
That is so cursed
As you said, I'm at PvE item level 495 already. Since it wasn't a fated raid, the ilev gear that was dropping was so low that I was just doing it to pick up some transmogs
wintry dew
Yesterday we had about 5/6 wipes to sarkareth, we just kicked low performance people who did not do any mechanics or had Lower DPS than tanks. Until we had a perfect group
steel scarab
Thought it was gonna be easy lol
wintry dew
Thought it was gonna be easy lol
Exactly
You know the tactics for smolde HC? Atleast the burst phase part in the middle?
steel scarab
The only thing I knew to be scared of seemed to be, when he tossed out the fireballs that have a knockback, those hit so hard they can basically one shot you
And, to soak the small circle aoe he puts on teammates
wintry dew
You can only soak one time
And by soaking that one time (it's always on the tank) you get a debuff
On the intermission phase when he goes middle, did you notice some balls of fire trying to reach the boss?
steel scarab
Yes, I did see those
wintry dew
What did you do to them?
steel scarab
I saw people running into them
steel scarab
...maybe I am confusing this with a different boss.
I did the Fated raid, two normals, and this heroic all the same day
But when the leader was giving a Smolderon explanation, he definitely did not mention collecting any balls
wintry dew
steel scarab
Yeah, Smolderon was def the one that broke the heroic group, for sure
wintry dew
So
steel scarab
I vividly remember that lol
wintry dew
Imagine the following
Every person that soaked the tank before the phase where smolderon went mid, when the knock back happens, will spawn 5(?) balls of fire. Each increase your dps by A LOT
You can Only see balls spawned by you
If any balls reach the boss, they increase boss DMG permanently by 5 or 10%
PER BALL
Now imagine if half the raid didn't know about said balls
steel scarab
YES, you're right, I def picked some of those up
But
In fairness
I think two attempts I did not notice them and pick up any 😔
I was surprised DBM did not seem to say anything about that
wintry dew
If you didn't notice them might be because you didn't soak the tank.
It's always two groups:
A group will soak the tank, the other group will have a debuff where they will spawn tornados
You always get to do both Mechs before boss goes mid
If no debuff - soak
steel scarab
Is the tank the only thing you soak? Because the leader told us we had to soak all the small circle AOE
wintry dew
If debuff - mode away a bit
steel scarab
So this may have been a case of a poor explanation
steel scarab
Is that the larger-looking swirl on the ground?
wintry dew
So might be misremember
steel scarab
Cuz he puts a lot of small circles
wintry dew
Is that the larger-looking swirl on the ground?
On the tanks
steel scarab
Aye, I think the ground AOE on the tanks (didn't realize it was tank only) looks a bit different than the other AOE he puts on the ground
astral snow
Watched a bit of the AWC yesterday. Are Rogues washed??
steel scarab
Well. That helps for next time, now I can explain it to others
Very helpful, I very much appreciate that
wintry dew
Aye, I think the ground AOE on the tanks (didn't realize it was tank only) looks...
2 minutes
Give it a look
steel scarab
That is a pretty cursed fight though, basically 100% un-puggable unless your leader knows exactly how to describe that
Because that's a lot of personal responsibility
wintry dew
That's the kind of fight where less people = better
steel scarab
And in PUGs personal responsibility = death lol
True, yeah I could see that
Better to have fewer who know how to do it, than more who don't
wintry dew
Btw, I don't play with dBm, which is fucking cursed
Because I tend to memorize everything about the fight
steel scarab
I don't really like DBM, but it certainly (usually) helps me as I don't look things up beforehand, I rely on a leader to explain them
So DBM often shores up weaknesses of the leader's explanations
wintry dew
That's what guilds are for
steel scarab
Not in yesterday's case though lol
True! I was an orange parsing crazy person in Classic, we got up to the 4 horsemen and couldn't beat them. But
I couldn't deal with the regimented raid schedule anymore
I'm too old
wintry dew
In theory pugs are about inviting big dick players and clear as fast as possible
wintry dew
True! I was an orange parsing crazy person in Classic, we got up to the 4 horsem...
Although that's an amazing accomplishment, classic bosses had ... 2 abilities the whole fight
In retail you get 2 abilities in the first 20 seconds
The main goal of classic was too be well geared with consumables and stuff, and try to have 100% uptime without having to move too much
(same can be said about retail)
But in retail with the stupid amount of boss mechanics you gotta deal with, takes a bit until you understand the pace of the fight
steel scarab
I agree 1000%, classic raids were super easy compared to the current game
I do think, to some extent, the rigidity of the rotations in retail are bad
wintry dew
Could you elaborate on that
steel scarab
But I guess they needed more of a way to differentiate a 100% player from a 95% player
Sure
wintry dew
Before you do
The difference between a 95 and a 100
Are crits and procs
Nothing else
wintry dew
Yeah that's better
steel scarab
I mean honestly, I don't raid in retail much so I'm pretty clueless
But being an orange parsing rogue with relative consistency in classic and being like, 6th on DPS in retail feels very humbling, and I feel like I have really good uptime
But I do think, maybe it's spec specific? Since Nightstalker, Dance, and other things all snapshot and there are very rigid and ideal things you have to like up
I'm sure I'm not doing it right
Whereas in classic I played pretty much perfectly, though to be fair, Classic was pretty much 100% about uptime and gear, whereas retail is uptime, gear, and "did you use your abilities and cooldowns in this exact order"
wintry dew
I can tell you that, sometimes, the difference between 2 assassination rogues that played perfectly, is how much their kingsbane crit*
steel scarab
Sure, I could see that
Plus, our 4 piece set seems really important
Which I don't have yet this season
I also notice sometimes it's simply a gear gap thing. Like "wow he did 50k DPS more than me... Oh, he has 10 item levels on me"
wintry dew
10 ilvl sometimes means nothing. Let me give you an example real quick of a +9(?) I did this weekend
plucky rose
Yo got a couple questions for assa prio in 3s. How many people should i be keeping rupture on? And what should slice and dice uptime look like?
steel scarab
@wintry dew aye, that is a pretty big gap
waxen meteor
I got so bored I queued for a PUG Heroic Amirdrassil, having never done one befo...
Amirdrassil this week is...
not right queue lol
steel scarab
@waxen meteor yeah it was a very big mistake lol
I just thought it would be easy for transmogs!
waxen meteor
you got a fated raid every week, rotating from s1-s3
just play the fated one, if you are boring
but tbh
applying for raid group isn't any better than queue time in pvp
this game badly needs some valid queue system
steel scarab
You are right
wintry dew
If you want to raid just join a guild honestly
It's also an amazing way to meet new people
waxen meteor
my ret currently playing with somewhat fixed group
they run 1203912038120 raids a week
so mostly i can jump on a train at least once or twice a week
wintry dew
Raids?
wintry dew
Oh LOL
steel scarab
Lol
wintry dew
That's why I can only be consistent with a single character
steel scarab
Yeah I started trying the raids because my fiance has 3 characters and she hops in the LFR. So I tried that, but it's sooooo easy I can't even stand it. Normal isn't much better lol
waxen meteor
but pve dudes shame on me for saying this
i mean i don't understand why they can't take the truth
wintry dew
I mean, if you parse good you don't suck
waxen meteor
yeah i know
you can be better so you don't suck
but at the same time, you can play ret, spend 10% of attention like you play rogue
'and do much much bigger dmg
and do all support
and heal
and won't die
and obviously you have lego
wintry dew
Yeah but, so what? XD
steel scarab
Yeaaaah I understand that sentiment. I had two rets in my classic guild and ret was absolutely horrendous DPS. So they'd parse like 85, but at the bottom of the meter by a mile lol
So like, they were doing well personally, but kinda hurting the raid by being there lol
wintry dew
I'm either a god
Or my group sucks
I was parsing 80-95 yesterday in HC as outlaw
And consistently top 3
wintry dew
Only assa isnt
waxen meteor
yeah i know, i am not trying to spend too much energy in pve
wintry dew
Sub and law are doing really well in pve
waxen meteor
and i guess for most of us here.... in pvp channel are similar...
trying to get some cacusal pve play 🙂
waxen meteor
i will probably do law this season if i play rogue pve
wintry dew
I have fun as law in keys
waxen meteor
haven't done outlaw since like wlk
waxen meteor
problem is we don't seem to need any pve items as rogue in pvp
s4
maybe at max the dagger
which doesn't make much difference
just trading some crit for mastery
steel scarab
Yeah that's what's weird to me, I am definitely an above average rogue, so trying really hard, flasking, food, runes, solid gear, fully enchanted, and just
Being like 75k DPS behind people
It's like, what the actual hell, lol
wintry dew
Might be rotation
steel scarab
Maybe part of it is how you guys are saying that assassination is cursed ATM, but yeah I'm sure my rotation is off
And not having my 4 piece set bonus
wintry dew
Hunter is my gf
waxen meteor
Being like 75k DPS behind people
if you are doing sin....
steel scarab
Yeah I'm sin
wintry dew
Same story yes
waxen meteor
so i use the new coins to get a law weapon if i start pve?
anyway...
won't start any soon...
i don't want to do more pve other than ret alt
DH PvP requires some pve too, annoying
wintry dew
Either grief torch or the fist weapon from amidrassil council
Grief might be the better choice first
I got lucky and got grief HC from vault
So I went for the fist
waxen meteor
this season conquest cap is really fast
i feel we gonna be done gearing probably in 2 weeks
wintry dew
Most likely yes, huge and welcome change
wintry dew
forest root
<@1007273351682736208>
shadowblades > cheap shot > shadow dance/symbols of deat...
thanks for all this! gonna set it up now
steel scarab
Cursed
last jasper
Nice sub buff blizz. Thanks
lucid citrus
12% is kinda big isn’t for outlaw?
sick wasp
Rogue
Assassination
Kingsbane instant damage reduced by 32% in PvP combat (was 20%).
Kingsbane damage over time reduced by 8% in PvP combat (was 20%).
Improved Garrote damage bonus now reduced to 20% in PvP combat (was 30%).
Outlaw
Between the Eyes damage is no longer increased by 12% in PvP combat.
Ace Up Your Sleeve now has 4% chance to trigger per combo point spent and grants 4 combo points in PvP combat (base 5% chance and 5 combo points).
💀
technically imp garrote is a buff
outlaw got clapped
karmic summit
I think blizz want to see spell cleave v spell cleave %80 damp matches at this point
sick wasp
u gonna see more scooby doo's now than ever
monk/dk
sub prolly make a comeback
coz it favors snipin
also this
Hunter
Marksmanship
Rapid Fire damage increased by 45% in PvP combat (was 30%).
Aimed Shot damage increased by 55% in PvP combat (was 40%).
Sniper Shot now deals 15% of the target’s health (was 20%).
hunters gonna clap some buttchicks now
tawny kestrel
technically imp garrote is a buff
how is it a buff
fading blade
Sub isn’t making a comeback
sick wasp
how is it a buff
it was 30% dmg reduction now its reduced 20%
karmic summit
Maybe with mm and play like rmp
restive hemlock
Yea reduced to not by
fading blade
Rogue nerfs go hard
sick wasp
Improved Garrote damage bonus now reduced to 20% in PvP combat (was 30%).
how that translates dear raz
restive hemlock
Yep seeing it?
sick wasp
reduced to
steel scarab
Lol a worthless sin PvE buff and significant PvP nerfs
sick wasp
sorry ye
steel scarab
Time to unsubscribe
karmic summit
Wowhead has then
sick wasp
my bad ye,i stand corrected thx alot @tawny kestrel ❤️
tribal badger
yea that outlaw nerf is pretty big
not that outlaw was doing overwheleming damage before
not even sure it matters in terms of its viability since u can still setup
just makes u more of a setup bot like sub
restive hemlock
Buffs to aff seems like a choice
karmic summit
I think the cp nerf to 4 is going to make vanish uptime a lot less now
tribal badger
the ace nerf just fuckin sucks going to make the whole spec feel worse to play
sick wasp
Time to unsubscribe
ahhaha time to try sub brother
tribal badger
and very artificially too, would rather see damage nerfed harder then the ace change
tribal badger
gotta finish pushing out 2400 tonight so i can afk rest of season 😴
sick wasp
i did the best choice of my life not playing rogue
steel scarab
It's just absolutely crazy. I feel like Assassination is so much harder to play (and thus, has so much less representation on the leaderboards) than DH and warrior and monk, which are just pure faceroll
restive hemlock
DH going untouched is a surprise
sick wasp
dh is dogshit
karmic summit
Dh is just good at shuffle becouse its a zug zug spec
sick wasp
irrelevant clas
karmic summit
Like in a actual 3s place dh wouldnt be good imo
tawny kestrel
the hell u guys smoking
karmic summit
Just shut their eyebeam window and they are done
tawny kestrel
dh is insane atm 
lucid citrus
You guys are crazy lol DH is insane in any bracket right now
surreal barn
Interesting changes
surreal barn
Assa still fine tbh
wintry dew
dh is insane atm <:kekL:695774807509434368>
We can search this sentence during the whole DF timeline and it will appear throughout all 4 seasons xD
tawny kestrel
the boomy set changes are kinda big
surreal barn
I didn’t really pay attention to the amount of crits
tropic mason
where the havoc nerf
surreal barn
What’s the total difference
sick wasp
Like it needed it LOL
owls getting rly dirty
rotund fulcrum
the ace up your sleeve combo point nerf is annoying if you play outlaw in both pvp and pve
tribal badger
its just a bad change
hidden dome
It is exactly the quality that I expect from the current pvp "team"
sick wasp
i think that outlaw true power to cc n stuff isnt hurt
but its dmg got a slap for sure
hidden dome
There are more DHs above 2.2 in 3s eu right now
than there are outlaws
yet Outlaw gets gutted
waxen meteor
they nerfed dh?
waxen meteor
ok let me read
karmic summit
If they wanted to nerf the cd reduction they should have just nerfed the cdr
waxen meteor
Fixed an issue that caused the Assassination Rogue Season 3/Season 4 bonus to do slightly less damage than intended.
i hope this actually fix the issue of 4 set does nothing in pvp
surreal barn
How did spriest escape lol
waxen meteor
4 set is actually not bad for sin in pve
surreal barn
They are insane yeah?
jaunty osprey
It’s a 2 set bugfix
sick wasp
yeah
jaunty osprey
Not 4 set
ok nvm then
sick wasp
SP does alot of dmg in both pve and pvp
waxen meteor
nature dmg = kingsbane
well the issue desc doesn't say 2 tier or 4
affl lock get a bunch of dmg buff
and there's no text of 'do not apply in pvp'
jaunty osprey
It’s 2 set bugfix
if you keep up-to-date w the pve channels
in the rogue discord
waxen meteor
wait
we got nerfed..
Rogue
Assassination
Kingsbane instant damage reduced by 32% in PvP combat (was 20%).
Kingsbane damage over time reduced by 8% in PvP combat (was 20%).
Improved Garrote damage bonus now reduced to 20% in PvP combat (was 30%).
hidden dome
Yep
waxen meteor
nice
oh wait, it's instant dmg nerf
but dot dmg increase
and improved garrote nerf
jaunty osprey
it’s garrote nerf
waxen meteor
yeah
jaunty osprey
you guys gotta learn how to read it properly
Imp Garrote did 30% more damage, now does 20% more
so ya, nerf across the board
fading blade
Buff MM tho
waxen meteor
the dance/vanish go nerf basically
MM adjustment is kinda needed, although i don't see why they tune up that much for aimed shot and rapid fire
fading blade
Rogue never escapes the nerf bat
waxen meteor
Some MM do 2s stand in middle of field and face cast sniper on melee lol
I surely see why they want to nerf sniper
but 15% on aim/rapid seems much much bigger buff than the nerf on sniper
surreal barn
It’s actually a buff for marks
last jasper
but 15% on aim/rapid seems much much bigger buff than the nerf on sniper
yea, mages gonna love that
surreal barn
They are prob thrilled
hidden dome
Discipline
Atonement healing increased by 11% in PvP combat.
Power Word: Radiance healing increased by 10% in PvP combat.
Shadow Word: Pain and Purge the Wicked damage increased by 15% in PvP combat.
2s are going to be unplayable
waxen meteor
It’s actually a buff for marks
marksman will be super good next week
it's quite big buff
honestly i don't think sniper is a mandatory pvp talent anyway
fading blade
It’s not
waxen meteor
only useful in certain scenario
fading blade
Just funny how rogues always get hit with the nerf bat no matter what happens
waxen meteor
and mostly against not so good players
forest root
anyone want to help me set up my stealth bar? Im not sure what to put on it
fading blade
You reroll DH
forest root
no, I just rolled rogue
fading blade
Oof
forest root
rogue is insane so idk why you oofing
safe turret
outlaw needed nerfs but they did it in a way that is going to make the specs flow feel like ass
hidden dome
There are 7 Outlaws above 2.2 in 3s eu
and there are 13 DHs
Yet DH got 0 nerfs, while having twice the pop at the top of the ladder
tropic mason
dh's have also been wrecking shit this entire expansion at all levels
hidden dome
Yeah
proud folio
outlaw ace nerf is super dumb, gonna make it feel awful to play
waxen meteor
imagine dh will also benefit from both pve rings later this season
fading blade
The team is very out of touch with the scene
tropic mason
nah
hidden dome
Why can't he just get -x% damage nerfs
tropic mason
always go with gameplay nerfs for outlaw
hidden dome
like every other spec
tropic mason
hidden dome
ye
last jasper
sin got his part of nerfs too
tropic mason
ye, but would u go sub still
last jasper
prob
tribal badger
these r honestly surprisingly heavy handed nerfs for pre full pvp gear content
gunna suck if certain specs continue to fall off scaling wise and got nerfed
surely such a thing couldnt happen
jolly sierra
Rogue
Assassination
Kingsbane instant damage reduced by 32% in PvP combat (was 2...
that is OK, KB wasnt a big deal compared to s3
hidden dome
I will never grind above 1.8 again, as long as the current pvp dev team is working at blizzard
1.8 is easy enough where balance doesn't matter
sick wasp
that is OK, KB wasnt a big deal compared to s3
tbh im more hyped to play sub than ever but i am gonna try get the glad mount with my mage before anything else
its the most important goal this season
for now im like an elevator
que into cursed lobbies
makes me cringe
sick wasp
💥
jolly sierra
ye idk how assa would be dead after nerfs lol
last jasper
jez, I feel like I would level a healer. just to be able to fckin play this game lol
sick wasp
sin would still be good,wont apply that insane pressure it does now
for sure
it will still root teams
jolly sierra
yep
anyways, gotta push today and tomorrow tho before reset
seems like i got a deadline for free pass
sick wasp
ofc u can
jolly sierra
gotta pause the persona 5 gameplay for now
sick wasp
eveyrone can
steel scarab
People become really good above 2200 I feel
sick wasp
its more like knowing the game more than casual stuff
but there are ppl doing degen stuff even higher
steel scarab
Like if I Dance I am immediately CC'ed, if I Deathmark that person is immediately BOPed, things like that
sick wasp
well ye thats a given
steel scarab
It's like, did we really need a nerf when this is what I'm playing against? Low cd abilities that just blank my big CDs lol
sick wasp
ur big kill conditions is when u take their pvp trinkets
forest root
isnt that most classes.
sick wasp
and they got no way out to respond
steel scarab
Meanwhile the monk/DH/warrior just brainlessly chases someone around the arena until they die
gilded gulch
i mean
sick wasp
DHs are the most easily punishable class in the game i feel
gilded gulch
sin rogue kinda chases people until they die
steel scarab
I don't use Gladius so I really often am not 100% sure when their trinket is down
sick wasp
sin rogue kinda chases people until they die
no way,are we!?!? 😄
steel scarab
Sin rogue can't really go toe to toe with anyone except casters
We die to literally any other class
sick wasp
I don't use Gladius so I really often am not 100% sure when their trinket is dow...
u need to use gladius or sarena
gilded gulch
tbh neither can dhs unless they wanna get clapped
sick wasp
its 100% needed to climb higher
steel scarab
😭
sick wasp
its knowledge thats required to make desicions
steel scarab
I agree, I just hate using crutches like that
gilded gulch
gladius is more necessary for rogue
steel scarab
But I understand that I'm probably skill capped without it
gilded gulch
than other classes
steel scarab
Idk either, I just play by feeling, and the trinket does make a sound
gilded gulch
i still feel rogue punishes bad trinket usage
steel scarab
So I listen for the sound
gilded gulch
more than other classes
sick wasp
u can see it ofc once its pressed but how u know the timer afterwards
gilded gulch
at least when sub is meta
sick wasp
ye u need to know exactly when
steel scarab
I wish they would just bake that into the game
sick wasp
our 1min cds are timed into 20sec kill timer windows
so the opportunity is very small in terms of time
gilded gulch
idk sin usually is rather braindead