doing x2 Outlaw + Sin
#pvp
vocal surge
sick wasp
alot of ppl gonna play
vocal surge
and blowing healers up in 2s
tribal badger
sins probably gunna be banging next season tbh
vocal surge
Yea
tribal badger
can still dodge most DR problems with decent secondaries
and its already banging on live
sub will probably start doing actual damage again and blizz will nerf it 3 weeks in
outlaw is just worrybig
we r scaling into the floor
tribal badger
and it doesnt even matter, in pve u still stack vers xd
mastery is so bad ST man
i cant imagine mastery law ever being good even in pvp
vocal surge
Haste is covered
hidden dome
Wasn't it decent for some seasons
vocal surge
w. Take 'em by Surprise
hidden dome
I always rolled crit vers, but I saw some outlaws running it
tribal badger
it was decent before the rework because during the rework realz nerfed its entire secondary value by 10%
for no reason
tribal badger
and by "decent" i mean people picked it over crit cause crit is nerfed in pvp
but honestly both worked fine
probably similar values
now its just necked 
hidden dome
Yeah, leadboard had both
tribal badger
the damage profile of crackshot + the mastery nerf
hidden dome
By the way, is Enduring Brawler still bugged in arena? It still feels like it procs almost never on Ambush vs SS
I saw some outlaws running alternative talents, but I don't remember if that was this season or last season
tribal badger
its not bugged the HO nerf is just applied after ur chance is calculated
so its not +15% for HO
hidden dome
Oh
vocal surge
we lost that skirm so hard lol, couldn't move an inch at all
hidden dome
same with fan the trigger at the start of DF
vocal surge
constant random 5s roots from frost mage procs
hidden dome
Those are the worst
Frost gotta be the only spec I love to play and hate to play against
You have so much outplay potential
but getting outplayed by it feels horrible
vocal surge
Frost Mage is one of those specs I dont honor
simply due to how unfair it can be fighting 1
when you get root and root proc
on top of nearly 100% slow uptime
I understand their theme is about firing cold spells
hidden dome
And the random oneshots, the one time the frost bomb wasn't dispelled and everything crits
let's not forget those
I hate it when it comes down to a 1v1, me against a frost mage in 2s
and they still got their iceblocks
the game just never ends
vocal surge
But if their design was a lot more based on either rooting enemies or slowing them down rather than both
I'd be more chill with em
Yeah
vocal surge
There's ways to 1v1 frost mages in arenas
but in open world, its better to lay down n die
hidden dome
As a horde player
there are no 1v1s in open world
Alliance players always come with back up
vocal surge
XD
Oh my goodness
This hunter had the best timing
for his shots for this skirm wins lol
Mage comes out of ice block, I get the blind on mage
and lad comes in with a sniper shot
not a second later
vocal surge
Aye
hidden dome
Every season I enjoy arena as long as I only go for elite sets or the weapon enchant. But the moment I push beyond that arena just gets unenjoyable for me and I tilt.
I think I don't actually like arena. I just like winning and rewards
vocal surge
My paladin GCD locked himself this skirm lol
hidden dome
hahaha
hidden dome
I would bet my gold on the ret
over the mm
But if he dies bubbleless
then there is nothing to be done
tribal badger
its fun
it does its damage for free and makes u pretty much immortal during it
it breaks roots also
hidden dome
What talent do you drop for it?
vocal surge
GSW
vocal surge
If I want to showoff in a fight, I pick Killing Spree but other than it's kinda iffy
tribal badger
it has some moderatly neat shenangins but all around it isnt a great spell no
vocal surge
Yea
tribal badger
it snapshots ur position so u can meme stuff like FoF parry/DBTS/evasion with it
vocal surge
my issue with it is takes too much haste to make up the lost GCDs
tribal badger
if u shadowstep > kspree it will ignore the parry/dodges
i mean u just accept the lost gcds ud never just take haste to make it faster
vocal surge
Yep
tribal badger
its haste scaling is a meme
hidden dome
Every hit of KS should be a 100% crit invis buffed BtE
tribal badger
like its the hardest hitting spell outlaw has it just does it over 2s so its kinda pointless
i really just run it vs comps that will spam root me or 4fun personally
hidden dome
question, I find it stronger to restealth often with outlaw, if possible. Do you guys just meele all game
or do you restealth too?
tribal badger
restealth like... run away and drop combat?
idk if ive ever done that even once as outlaw
maybe if a druid clones me out in narnia and the fight moves away from me and the druid forgets to keep me in combat
hidden dome
Because enemies pop defensives
tribal badger
i would never ever go out of my way to restealth as outlaw outlaw is an uptime spec
hidden dome
and rather than just hitting them pointlessly
tribal badger
but its not pointless
tribal badger
ur churning ADR/vanish cdr
which is very important for ur damage
way more then just restealthing
tribal badger
as outlaw you would optimally be hitting a target (literally anything) the entire match outside cc
vocal surge
Imo from doing 1v1s, restealthing gives a huge surge of power
tribal badger
well in 1v1s its difference because you are playing the avoid damage and win slowly over time game
hidden dome
ye, a restealth gives a huge burst window
tribal badger
very different then playing with a healer
in a 2v2 or 3v3 scenario
like you would probably go for restealths as mage/rogue in 2v2
hidden dome
in 3s I would never restealth
vocal surge
I don't mean small slaps on the shoulder
tribal badger
(but why would you be outlaw)
hidden dome
but in 2s, I go for it sometimes
vocal surge
I mean it's a gigantic dps spike
hidden dome
Especially if they overcommit on burst/defensive cds
I just line them and restealth and burst after their cds end
tribal badger
well if ur doing it to avoid damage its different
if they overlap defensives and offensives and u just run away thats one thing
id never just run away from defensives tho
u should never be more then really 20s away from a vanish as outlaw pveing into a target
so instead ur gunna run away for 6-10s to try to drop combat, almost assuredly let AR fall off while also not genning any CDR for ar/vanish?
AR is so important for ur damage
hidden dome
that is true
tribal badger
not just because our energy gen and crackshot window damage falls off a cliff without it
but because every AR is another LD for ur rolls
vocal surge
Usually by the time you disengage and restealth, AR is already almost back up
tribal badger
sure but if its not back up you probably wont have it for ur opener subterfuge which means the damage of that crackshot window is going to be tiny compared to an AR one
idk
i cant imagine any scenario id willingly go for a restealth outside double dps 2s
or like i said, when the enemy team hands it to me (ccs me in narnia then ignores me)
id never spend 5+s hitting nothing to try to re as outlaw
unless i was hitting into literal immunies that i couldnt get cdr from
its also risky because if the enemy team does anything to cancel ur restealth, you just dropped off 5-10s of cdr churning and AR uptime for no reason
but pvp is an always changing thing so im sure theres some scenarios where it could be good or at least not bad, i just cant think of them off the top of my head rn and its not something ive ever felt the need to do
jolly sierra
ilussions all the day
inner tartan
if u full stack ves on a sin rogue how much damage do u loss ?
waxen meteor
if u full stack ves on a sin rogue how much damage do u loss ?
minimum, or let's say not much
you get mastery/vers anyway
inner tartan
So I have a outlaw which is ves ( way to much almost at 50) crt mastery haste if I swap to sin performance shouldn’t be 2 bad should it
waxen meteor
So I have a outlaw which is ves ( way to much almost at 50) crt mastery haste if...
well it's kinda meh
issue is more haste has almost no value
crit is partially limited too
it's not really about your vers too high
it's your mastery too low and shifted to crit/haste
jolly sierra
i think a lot
versa scales very low compared to mastery
so stat distribution should be lower
surreal barn
9 of my last 12 lobbies on one character had another rogue in it
Even had a second assa lol
last jasper
1.6k lobby lmao
wintry dew
1.6k lobby lmao
last jasper
https://tenor.com/view/theyre-the-same-picture-the-office-pam-the-office-us-gif-...
I almost forgot how fun is to play caster
I almost felt abused
last jasper
average EU SS match be like
he played as a typical dh. So Im not even mad
fading blade
I wonder why there are two glad mounts in TWW
umbral crest
Wonder if the new solo RBG thing will have any exclusive rewards considering it's very far from arenas
last jasper
No it won’t. It’s a blizzard after all
umbral crest
You never know, solo rbg is supposedly going to cater to more casual players who were never into arenas, they might just put some effort into it 😛
at least based on what I've heard
jolly sierra
Wonder if the new solo RBG thing will have any exclusive rewards considering it'...
i hope if the new solo RBG will finally count as ranked
fading blade
Something has a different glad mount
last jasper
rbg are almost dead. while solo is the most played(?). and still 0 rewards
fading blade
Maybe its a SS glad mount if you hit legend
umbral crest
Supposedly BGs are more casual-/beginner-friendly, it was a talking point of theirs, so I could see shuffle being the plug and play version of arenas while this new queue is aimed at the "regular" wow player who might enjoy BGs but not the "sweaty" arena culture
No idea though, just saying that blizz might consider the solo BG players PvE-adjacent 😂
jolly sierra
would play blitz if they award me the RBG titles TBH
i rlly want the Champion one
just because, ye, its cool
umbral crest
I mean, they probably will now
jolly sierra
hope so
umbral crest
RBGs are going to be retired, right?
fading blade
Are they really?
umbral crest
That's what I heard, didn't look into it too much though
Someone else might be able to confirm, they released a bunch of stuff today and guild's been buzzing about it
jolly sierra
nope lol
maybe raz have the answer, he is specced into RBGs i recall
is more aware perhaps
fading blade
maybe raz have the answer, he is specced into RBGs i recall
sound like a simp
Well they said theres an overhaul for RBGS and are moving foward with the battleground blitz format
umbral crest
Yeah
fading blade
confirmed my ion himself
jolly sierra
sound like a simp
dunno, but tbh wanna know about that
fading blade
Would be easier to grab those titles youre looking for along with the mogs stuk at 1800
jolly sierra
i was hyped about blitz when it appeared
fading blade
If they tie it all together
surreal barn
Rbg scene has always been a little sus 😂
Just wait till affli and spriest bots plague it
You’ll want to crawl back to 3s and shuffle
fading blade
solo rbgs gonna be the most toxic thing in WoW
umbral crest
Honestly wonder what the comps are going to be like, has to be somewhat by role like healers, tanks, melee and ranged, though some ranged are stronger in BGs overall so 
fading blade
DK tank vs DH tank on flag maps oof
Has to be a freakin solo shuffle glad mount
Unless they already throwing in s2 recolor kekw
umbral crest
Leader is a 1,4kxp low geared bm hunter
jolly sierra
war within rogue s1 tier
umbral crest
The druid tier looked pretty neat too
jolly sierra
finally decently designed tiers
umbral crest
Hunter though..
jolly sierra
Hunter though..
classic hunter design, as always
but the rogue tier looks nice af
ngl
last jasper
war within rogue s1 tier
still better than s4 😄
jolly sierra
anything is better than s4-s3 one
steel scarab
Actually a nice looking rogue set
umbral crest
Am I the only one who kinda liked the current set?
last jasper
nope, I like it too
jolly sierra
the fkn mask doesnt matches w the color from the entire set and is ugly af
surreal barn
war within rogue s1 tier
Idk how I feel about this
umbral crest
You can cosplay a fat ethereal
jolly sierra
Idk how I feel about this
and now?
umbral crest
Do we know which recolours are for pvp?
jolly sierra
no yet
last jasper
I hope elite mask will have some fx particles
jolly sierra
will have tho
last jasper
lmao.
waxen meteor
Just soso for me...
jolly sierra
me warrior
waxen meteor
warrior set 😄
of s4?
waxen meteor
there are not nice colors lol
this looks like elementary school student coloring
last jasper
pretty realistic for warriors 😄
jolly sierra
yeah
very realistic
tbh would kill for a t2 remaked set, like they did in ToS with the BT one
or a t3
vocal surge
Guilds be recruiting rn
But everytime they mention "PvP"
Im here like: "Are you sure you guys PvP?"
ik a couple of actual PvP guilds
But these guilds trying to umbrella everyone
jolly sierra
happens here too
and in reverse
some pvp guilds w a little pve ends with those peeps leaving
idk i just like to troll guild whispers with "eww pve"
jolly sierra
in my server is easy, im in one, but the guys plays carefree
and there was a guild which only recruited 2k+ ppl
but didnt see them recently
vocal surge
Dang lol
jolly sierra
looks kinda dead for me
vocal surge
Ooof
This druid was schizo cycloning
Lost so much kill pressure from them just randomly cycloning the target I was on
Got so many free restealths thou
each one was a free Vanish + AR refresh
waxen meteor
i think you can swap druid everytime he cyclone
cyclone cast range is actually very short
steel scarab
Yeah, on the one hand I love long matches, so cyclones are good, but on the other hand, I do not understand why druids cyclone targets who have full bleeds on them, other than they don't understand how assassination rogues work
waxen meteor
so if he cyclon, he must be fairly close and most likely he has hots added to main target
so you can swap and get him a lot of pressure
vocal surge
almost had a 1v2
vs an Aff + WW
Both were at 100k hp each
the dots ticking on me got me sadly
steel scarab
The game seems to be telling me I am solidly a 2000 player. I guess I hit 2100 by a miracle fluke, because I've played at least 50 games after hitting Duelist and I consistently stay at 2000
Sad to see this is my limit, but I'm still having fun just playing games
steel scarab
Maybe! I don't think I use smoke Bomb very well
vocal surge
Aye
Even I dont have much experience smoke bombing well lol
The shaman convention is upon us
Despite it being3 shams
it was epic
umbral crest
What's the self harm button on C?
waxen meteor
First glad mount when
waxen meteor
Crimson Vial lol
why do you change picture of a skill
vocal surge
Because theme
wanton breach
didn't even bother to make grappling hook look like heroic leap
vocal surge
the previous theme
waxen meteor
do you just want to confus yourself
vocal surge
its pretty easy to remember actually
Everytime I go on breaks and go back, I immediately remember what each keybind does
based on Alt or Shift being on the macro desc
fading blade
<@239851547935113216>
where was this
fading blade
was that from wowheads stream
vocal surge
Big inflation for SS
fading blade
looks fake
gleaming pawn
Just sounds like more rogue nerfs as more bads step into SS trying for the mount
jolly sierra
is sad blizz just hears bad ppl at forums just bc they are more
fading blade
why play rogue when the new monk is gonna be fking insane
jolly sierra
cuz i like rog
got a match w my lock against a very bad feral
lose 2 in a row and left
bruh
jolly sierra
they are w the s1 tier
was that good than even used it in s2
as half
w their seasonal tier
w my monk did that
the dmg was huge af
fading blade
Just the fact they gained even more mobility is disgusting
umbral crest
got a match w my lock against a very bad feral
Still playing demo?
jolly sierra
Still playing demo?
ye, noticed can do shit while cornered with demonic cores
umbral crest
Yeah, just spam demonic cores and also try to get interrupted on the vilefiend thingy ig
jolly sierra
yeah
umbral crest
or fakecast with it
umbral crest
Still kinda worth it with precog if they actually use interrupts
umbral crest
I mean, some classes/specs are more respectable than others, fury/DH is fairly low on my list these days..
halcyon timber
Mage stun gravity well thing inc too
They trade blast wave for it to darth vader people
Also wondering how well shaman water cocoon is going to fare
jolly sierra
if would respect ppl by class
would be
rogue
mages
locks = druids
monks
shaman
dk
priest
paladin
evoker
dh = warrior = hunter
in that order
why are monks that high? actually WW requires muscle memory to do the dmg else are very penalized w it
mages can be bastards but has similar cc toolkit as rogs
how the fuck mail players are getting good outdoor xmogs in TWW
plates
leather
cloth
also
dk s1
astral snow
Rogue S1 doesn’t look “great”
umbral crest
dk s1
What the hell is that? Guessing DK set but it looks like a chandelier or transformers from a substation
jolly sierra
XD
umbral crest
2 leavers in a row now, luckily fast queues 🤷♂️
jolly sierra
same
no rating gain sadly
so, guys
which season from this xp was the hardest for u overall?
chrome schooner
The Veil of Midnight nerf ... will the (nerfed) talent be available to all specs, or is it a nerf to the assa one + a removal of the talent for outlaw and sub ? the wording on the wowhead post is a bit confusing
jolly sierra
The Veil of Midnight nerf ... will the (nerfed) talent be available to all specs...
all it seems
cuz is also modified below for general rogs
chrome schooner
'cause on the wowhead thing is specifies "assassination"
jolly sierra
yeh i know
chrome schooner
like the nerfed version is shown as assa
and in the general part it says removed for the previous version of the talent no ?
ptr isn't working too so I cannot check
umbral crest
Three triple melee lobbies in a row, can I please get a caster 😦
Anything that's not DK, Fury, DH or Ret
jolly sierra
when im in monk always get both a hunter or a mage
umbral crest
This time it was warr, DH and a rogue, rogue won 5 so I'm happy the warr and DH gained no rating
surreal barn
don’t know. They did change stats up a bit from s2 though
umbral crest
Well
I just got a lobby
DH
Arms
Guardian
Well, my DH just died in the opener
surreal barn
Gold and silver armored felbat for glad mounts in war within… maybe the silver is a blitz/shuffle one 🥹
vocal surge
leather
The boots don't match well with the Set lol
I think that and the red color doesn't fit is what brings our set down
The mail set is on point thpu
On a side note
They're finally adding Epsilon customization to WoW
jolly sierra
The boots don't match well with the Set lol
agree
mail one is good af
what is epsilon custom?
vocal surge
If anyone is able to, I'd make a petition to make modifications for the boots
And the red color in that set
waxen meteor
cuz is also modified below for general rogs
Wait where is this nerf from
Is there a tuning post I missed
jolly sierra
Wait where is this nerf from
ptr posts
vocal surge
what is epsilon custom?
this
jolly sierra
XD
waxen meteor
Shoot
vocal surge
VoM now useless
vocal surge
Yea
gleaming pawn
yeah it's a niche pick now, but that's not a bad thing
gleaming pawn
more choices is a good thing
jolly sierra
literal w the inmunity and shit
gleaming pawn
buff DFA so Sin has a fun talent to choose that hits like a truck, pls
gleaming pawn
Blizzard must have forgotten that 15% of 0 is still 0
Envenom does fuck all damage, so adding 15% onto fuckall every 30-45 seconds is just troll
hidden dome
Queue times for 2s on eu are so high wtf
Waiting 6-7 minutes for a 2v2 game is insane, and I'm not even high rated with this char
vocal surge
Teaching another Outlaw rogue how to play x)
Doing double to triple his DPS
consistently
hidden dome
Why do I sometimes lose energy when I vanish with rogue
Only happens in arena
I have enough energy for BtE, I vanish and I no longer have enough energy for BtE
Whatever it is has messed up a few of my kills today
vocal surge
Dang
vocal surge
XD
Didn't realize Survival Hunter got a buff to Revive Pet cast time
I killed this Surv hunter's pet and assumed it'll take a while for it to come back up
in the time it took for me to grapple next to him
his pet was up and he ran around the corner w. a freezing trap for me
Yeah
That's dumb imo
Managing pet health isn't hard
jolly sierra
gouge him
vocal surge
and have a disarm
vocal surge
Fury of the Eagle
This hunter lost pretty hard lol
Could've waited for me to pick up eye
instead picks up eye
gleaming pawn
that's just 2s in a nutshell
just another example why the gamemode is shit and dead
yeah me too, always enjoyed 2s the most but Blizzard kills anything they can't effectively try and shoehorn esports in
tribal badger
yes hello
tribal badger
@fallen scaffold 😠
fallen scaffold
Nodded out while reading chat and accidently hit your name or somethin my b
tribal badger
unforgivable
still abyss
does veil of midnight remove debuffs like colossus smash?
waxen meteor
yeah it even removed disarm
gleaming pawn
yep any debuff
vocal surge
Poor paladin
grabs eye, sees me
I get first hit
BTE procs back to back
paladin starts running around pillar
Me: "No no no, there aint no more runnin'"
Blade Rushed him down
outer sky
is the Kidney Shot tooltip not accurate? Ive never seen a 6 second kidney shot
fringe juniper
okay thats pretty cool thanks
outer sky
5 should give me a 6s stun
I'm not getting that
this was a full Kidney
I realized it because in RBGs I can sap cap if I sap and click the flag at the exact same time since you can click the flag mid global
but I wasnt able to kidney cap
even though cap is 6s and KS is 6s and Sap is 6s
fringe juniper
Why do I keep getting into some Arena Skirmishes with 1 player on the other team or im solo sometimes
happened when I kept queuing with some random feral aswell
vocal surge
People be like that
waxen meteor
kidney is 5 sec in pvp since last main pvp patch
that bascially ruined all cc
you can still do 6 sec kidney in pve scenario but that's it
vocal surge
This paladin had 1k hp
Shield of Vengeance
sin rogue walks up to him
puts garrote and walks away
lad dies without being able to use Shield of Vengeance
waxen meteor
which spec/class seems to be top next season?
waxen meteor
got the 1k6 as demo
LOL my rduid is 1730 now even
jolly sierra
LOL my rduid is 1730 now even
OOF
waxen meteor
tbh it's kinda fun
but playing healer sometimes just feels too desperate
when there's a dumb dps
you surely 33
waxen meteor
well for demo lock as long as the pets are out
you can cast instant curse + doom and just kiting 247
use the teleport wisely that's it
then if healer cannot heal, gg next lobby
demo seems worse with the set nerf
but i didn't play more
Honestly this is probably the worst of 4 seasons
Isn’t it
jolly sierra
whoa this looks good af
its fugly, but still collectable for something
im using heirloom garrosh staff
outer sky
This was my 1st season playing again since SL S2 and these CC duration changes seem kind of weird. Like is Blizzard trying to turn PvP into PvE between players? Because with these nerfed CC duration sometimes it hardly feels worth the global and you're better off button mashing each other in the middle of the arena/BG
still sigil
You can still get a real good amount of cc out
sick wasp
This was my 1st season playing again since SL S2 and these CC duration changes s...
yeah CC chains got gutted
hunters cant cc infinitely now and RM isnt THAT powerful
in all honesty i think i kinda like it
the way it is
its kinda cancer to play shuffles though
coz ppl grief af
jolly sierra
if we calculate rogue cc chains
with gouge 4s
blind 4s
kidney 5s
we by ourselves can stop someone for like 13s
if our partners arent too dumb to try to break it
sick wasp
yes rogue has many stops,they cant be chained with other abilities though as they did in the past
u cant cheap into sheep into blind into ring into stun etc
that cant happen anymore
or the hunter intim/trap into entagle trap into binding arrow into scatter trap
those chains are gone
pine badge
if our partners arent too dumb to try to break it
wow, very nice point. i find that as rogue i am expected to know all else stuns and be wary. i find others are not as considerate for these stuns.
jolly sierra
wow, very nice point. i find that as rogue i am expected to know all else stuns ...
like warrior with fucking shock wave
pine badge
like warrior with fucking shock wave
this is very annoying
jolly sierra
yep
jolly sierra
yes rogue has many stops,they cant be chained with other abilities though as the...
some time ago (like a year) ive seen a clip from a guy in blades edge
jolly sierra
who did a perfect cc chain on a healer by himself as a rog
pine badge
who did a perfect cc chain on a healer by himself as a rog
what was sequence
jolly sierra
the guy just fucked a dps then returned back to cc the healer
pine badge
i love that
sick wasp
sub rogues could do that ye
jolly sierra
i love that
blind > gouge > kidney
pine badge
sub rogues could do that ye
used to be able to :3
sick wasp
used to be able to :3
yeah it doesnt happen now
sick wasp
blind > gouge > kidney
not impressed if thats the case
i find blind into box=>step=>sap
way more mental
sick wasp
true thats cool
jolly sierra
in that case i can just
kidney > blind > palm
or not
not
look
kidney > palm > blind
so i trigger blackjack
sick wasp
pandas 
jolly sierra
tbh is nice af as racial
imagine in the mirror the fkn dumb assa just garroting
then u
just palm
sick wasp
i can see why you like it
jolly sierra
XD
sick wasp
i think its cool
jolly sierra
that is a bonus, there are a real reason
i cant tell
the other bonus is than i can eat in arena
and get bonus versa without DR
jolly sierra
who doesnt
pine badge
human racial is bad 😦 if trinket equipped
i believe i should use 2 equip trinkets tbh
sick wasp
human is insane into certain comps u just need to understand why
pine badge
human is insane into certain comps u just need to understand why
how come?
pine badge
because human eliminates a kill condition
wha
pine badge
will cd overlaps w trinket
2 min vs 3 min cd
wait a min
i have not been using will as a second …
sick wasp
will isnt a trinket though
its a racial
its human racial
its called will to survive
removes all stun effects
pine badge
yes i am aware but i have made a mistake. will racial cd overlaps with cc release trinket. trinket has 2 min cd vs racial has 3 min cd and racial cd starts when trinket is used.
i did not realise that when will cd is at 1 min, it will no longer coincide with trinket cd - theoretically i should have 2 cc removals right?
sick wasp
yes i am aware but i have made a mistake. will racial cd overlaps with cc releas...
they share 1min cd
iirc
thats human racial and pvp trinket
pine badge
yes
sick wasp
😉
jolly sierra
warriors do that a lot
pine badge
jesus christ
pine badge
i will become invincible
jolly sierra
and go
sick wasp
i will become invincible
humans are very hard to cc with 2 trinkets if ur comp/class stuns alot
they will run everything down
pretty much unstoppable
jolly sierra
warrior has it easier
sick wasp
yup
jolly sierra
will turn back from saps, fears and gouges
sick wasp
coz storm and avatar and sht
sick wasp
they very highend pvpers
all play either NE or Human
well most of them
or dwarf if their class doesnt let them human
its basicly the strongest racials in the game
jolly sierra
there are very few players which plays with the race they like the most or are not meta
sick wasp
makes sense
jolly sierra
like gelubaba w pandas as mage or pikaboo when goes w the tauren
sick wasp
DHs 
pine badge
they are the bane of my existence
sick wasp
punish them everytime they overextend
sick wasp
edgelord cringers
yday ive que'd on ym 2nd mage on swamp mmr
all the dhs died to the same fashion
overextend,u snowdrift stun them
and they die in 2 seconds
nothing they can do
jolly sierra
i played w my lock
wanton breach
stuff like this (imagine the cced as healer)
i love that you have 3 icons on your nameplates for a target being blinded - maybe you could sort out some of the auras/big debuffs
jolly sierra
i love that you have 3 icons on your nameplates for a target being blinded - may...
yeah im a little lazy
but need to clean
lol
wanton breach
and overlapping text on your weakauras
jolly sierra
i played w my lock
and got a match against 2 rogs, one assa and a sub
the sub has shadowflame illussion so i thought was good
but got a pp down when i saw he didnt stealthed at sec 1 and instead used instant poison
and hid away
wanton breach
the sub has shadowflame illussion so i thought was good
you can get that as dh, so probably not guaranteed
jolly sierra
you can get that as dh, so probably not guaranteed
damn
the guys insta trinketed my axe toss
and when i got the assa i palmed him and trinketed too
jolly sierra
ye wtf
i like to palm assa rogues
to troll them w trinkets if they are dumb
else i fear them
win win
wanton breach
sounds strong
jolly sierra
vocal surge
poor hunter lol
thick stream
Hey guys tell me please good open in sub
wanton breach
beautiful
lone goblet
All those icons I can't tell what is happening lol
stuck cobalt
The icons are intended to illustrate what is going on in his head at that moment
last jasper
beautiful
Illustration of what is wrong with retail wow
I counted 12 garrote icons 😂
surreal barn
How they have not added a stock DR tracker is insane to me
last jasper
And ban a weakaura
pine badge
dr tracker would be very nice
last jasper
How they have not added a stock DR tracker is insane to me
I expect it to appear in War Within if they were ever thinking about adding it.
pale storm
Am I crazy, or you never use tea?
surreal barn
omg he’s right
umbral crest
A panda who doesn't drink tea smh
sick wasp
Hey guys tell me please good open in sub
sap healer==>shadowblades=>step/shadowstrike ur target=>cheapshot=>shadowdance/symbols=>rupture=>shadowstrike=>coldblood/sectech
peak agate
The lack of rogue changes (so far) and assassination hero talents makes me think we getting some more reshuffling in TWW.
halcyon timber
The lack of rogue changes (so far) and assassination hero talents makes me think...
They did a lot so far, doesn’t look like we will get any changes outside of 3rd tree stuff though. Maybe next few builds there is rogue stuff but who knows man.
peak agate
🤷🏽 I figured they are going to be some changes, even if they are minor. Especially with how the hero talents effect some abilities
halcyon timber
Who knows man, i don’t tend to get expectations up about much anymore
Cool to see they are working on a lot of classes though.
jolly sierra
Does your fps tank with all the repetitive auras lol
yes
jolly sierra
Am I crazy, or you never use tea?
energy pool is ok
fringe juniper
Is there a way to look at top of brackets for arenas
pale storm
it increases mastery, increasing damage on gosd
jolly sierra
yeah i know, im just used for long roads so i use it when im starving
stoic spruce
I hope to God they do something about crackshot
halcyon timber
Depends what they have time to work on . They have a few more hero trees still besides ours right?
What is up with crackshot popo?
surreal barn
Crackshot gonna stay
halcyon timber
(I have zero clue)
Crackshot sounds cool , the expectation of arms warrior’ing people down isnt going to fly though
Mace stun sinister striking mfs is long gone just like hemo days.
Peep this mage gem
gleaming pawn
Crackshot is fine, it’s the heavy RNG that Ace Up Your Sleeve adds that makes cackshot windows either feel amazing as you get back to back procs, or really bad as you get little to no procs.
Of course there windows where you get average procs, and the spec functions. But everything grinds to a halt when you get shitty windows and it feels bad, overriding the times it was fine or felt good in your mind
It’s just another layer of RNG in a spec where the core mechanic is already RNG heavy with Roll the Bones (and the spec only functions with a tier set that helps remove a large part of the shitty RtB RNG)
stoic spruce
Crackshot is not fine
It's way too strong comparative to literally the rest of the tree
gleaming pawn
It’s not though, GSW is just garbage and not tuned like a capstone should be
gleaming pawn
*and killing spree
stoic spruce
Maybe
last jasper
30 sec stun for mages. sounds great lol
halcyon timber
30 sec stun for mages. sounds great lol
Well 30 sec cd for a 3 sec duration. Im down for cool stuff and new things, just not the constant anti rogue propaganda while others pve to win while not meeting specific conditions but rogues sure pay for it.
surreal barn
@halcyon timber out here about to lead the rogue unions
halcyon timber
Im angry yeah
gleaming pawn
Oh you just know rogues will end up eating a nerf from that mage talent because of RMP 🙂
umbral crest
Shared CD on kidney/CS so a rogue can't stunlock on their own
halcyon timber
Snowdrift + gravity slam
steel scarab
Blizzard: "We have substantially buffed mages recently by giving them a new ability. Concordantly, we've noticed the win rate of RMP has increased significantly. After careful consideration, we have decided to nerf rogues."
I had a BM hunter in my solo shuffle yesterday who went 5-1. After the game he whispered me and called me a "rogue god"
I was like "thanks man but uh, I went 3-3, not exactly divine activity"
Maybe because people just never see assassination rogues lol
halcyon timber
Blizzard: "We have substantially buffed mages recently by giving them a new abil...
Warrior shockwave is 5s in TWW in one tree and the other gives secondary storm bolt to simultaneously tag someone. Warlock axe toss is also upgraded to kidney shot in TWW. Im down for new toys but stop turning us into stun bots because forum kids wig out. People can gripe about gouge and sap all they want but we have conditions to be met.
Feral gained more rogue tools to “fix” their stuff in TWW as they creep into our territory. Other classes gained shorter cc or ways to cdr that down. Its all cool seriously but stop penalizing rogues because someone wants to trinket sap in 2024
potent pivot
Is there a way to look at top of brackets for arenas
ye there's multiple ways. if you just mean checking up on the highest rated players on the ladder.
check the last pin in this channel for links to a few sites with info like that
last jasper
Well 30 sec cd for a 3 sec duration. Im down for cool stuff and new things, just...
I mean ppl were asking for a deep freeze (which I believe they think is op for frost). And then they just gave stun for all 3 specs
sometimes u barely can move or cast in some lobbies and they make it even worst
last jasper
Warrior shockwave is 5s in TWW in one tree and the other gives secondary storm b...
lol. remove sub rogue
waxen meteor
i think this game should reduce stun and cc from each class's toolkit
compensate with dmg or survival for who don't have them
it looks like it's going back to the cata routine
give everbody everything so they equal and they don't cry
mage stun, war 5s stun
all sounds like reasons people should quit
waxen meteor
If i would design this game, i would surely not give everybody the same shit with a different icon and animation.
War -> More consistent dmg when stay connected, unhealable dmg on single target if left open, but no stun.
DH -> Top aoe dmg and ultimate mobility, one stun enough, heavy burst with demo form/eye beam.
Ret -> Remove blind, trade with better healing for support package, semi range melee, no MS, good dmg
Rogue -> Heavy burst, CC king, no consistent dmg, low survival out of CD
at least everyone has its own identity
waxen meteor
-12, 2 ties in a lobby
still abyss
that I need to make a BTE macro for subterfuge
wondering why my damage is low
or rather that it's enough to replace dispatch with BTE the stealth bar
but that does nothing for the stealth/vanish/meld go
wait
no it does
there is SOMETHING going on with that though, I have so few BTEs eeach round (ok don't mind me or this spam)
last jasper
btw
is it a bug or why bte goes on cd when u use it from stealth?
I mean first global
halcyon timber
Everyone having tools is fine and cata was cool and everyone was strong. They aren’t going back to any of that for whatever pve hobo dreams when it worked well and subtlety was different. We are going to hit a wall at some point. Subtlety till the end though, i respect others enjoy assassination and outlaw and that’s good but im not swapping or selling out and I don’t follow hype trains or so anything else. Devs know what is the right thing to do by us, we can’t do anything about it other than adapt.
halcyon timber
If i would design this game, i would surely not give everybody the same shit wit...
Ret and other hybrids have all that in hero talents instead of overloading cds though.
pale storm
To me, playing rogue since vanilla, sub rogue is just exactly what a rogue is all about. Get in, hit hard, disappear. Go through the shadows. Sub is life
halcyon timber
New bark skin providing 30% dr and wild claw or whatever feral maintaining bear form benefits of 80% armor and frenzied regen while in cat form as an example. Its all cool sheet but what is rogue? 400 cds to fit in a kidney shot (fine) but gets nerfed because we aren’t allowed to do anything else
Well its not realistic given we get turned to stun support any time the damage isnt there due to the forum village criers. A more healthy approach instead of “looking to 1 shit hehe” needs to be given since its obvious it cannot exist ever since legion nonsense
Should stuck w SV and kept backstab having deterministic ways to be a threat or provide options instead of looking to stun for a wind walker to oopsie rsk 200k tab target
fringe juniper
How influential can Meld be in arenas as a Sub rogue
halcyon timber
Shadowmeld is solid until one day they change it. It acts like old vanish where you can ignore the shit out of anything
But yeah idgaf what other classes get. Less reasons for them to “bUt rOgUe hAs x , Its nOt FAiRrrr” bullshit. Cut the crap, time to swell some god damn eyelids. Really done with the propaganda man.
fringe juniper
Shadowmeld is solid until one day they change it. It acts like old vanish where ...
okay sick was just asking because looking at the top sub rogues except Pikaboo were all Nelfs and I didnt know if thats something I could utilize or only top 0.1% do
is it a tool I could use to get back into stealth or no
halcyon timber
Yeah as long as people don’t drop totems to break you out/ aoe /50 other things that “could” go in their favor. If you dig it, that’s all that matters truly man.
Cant go wrong with the kal’dorei
fallen scaffold
I literally can't imagine playing rogue and NOT having meld/being ne
safe pelican
NE Or Orc are the only viable options imo or human , I’m thinking about going NE on my assass rogue too so I can have 2 vanishes instead of one essentially
safe pelican
How influential can Meld be in arenas as a Sub rogue
You need the macro so then it acts as an instant vanish with one button , major key and hell of a game changer
fringe juniper
You need the macro so then it acts as an instant vanish with one button , major ...
word
alright yeah ill have to make a third rogue lmfao
I have a Human and BE rn
pine badge
NE Or Orc are the only viable options imo or human , I’m thinking about going NE...
two vanishes or 2 pvp trinkets is up to you. but if i could re roll itd be to NE
would be 3 vanishes for me 
still abyss
so my instinct when match starts is to BF, AR, SnD. is that a good opener?
opener wrong word
good start
the other alternative is ambush, SnD, kidney then AR
gleaming pawn
BF > Stealth > RtB > AR > SnD > open with CS
gleaming pawn
No, you will be rolling again in 15-20 seconds anyway and then you get 3 buffs
still abyss
BF > Stealth > RtB > AR > SnD > open with CS
ok so this, sap healer if possible then open with CS on kill target, and spam BTE?
gleaming pawn
Depends on the comp, you might just sap the other dps while your partners handle the healer (if Sap DRs with their CC)
gleaming pawn
And if the enemy team is blasting already, you might cheap both dps to slow them down
still abyss
right
fading blade
okay sick was just asking because looking at the top sub rogues except Pikaboo w...
I wouldn’t necessarily worry about racials , but it was mainly orc for the stun
Tauren rogue bis
still abyss
And if the enemy team is blasting already, you might cheap both dps to slow them...
I know I'm being a bother, but why does BTE sometimes seem to go on CD when it's not supposed to?
gleaming pawn
I know I'm being a bother, but why does BTE sometimes seem to go on CD when it's...
There’s some bugs if you re-stealthed with Subterfuge still up and you used BTE first. But primarily it comes from a dumb interaction with GCD and lag and you’re leaving dance/subterfuge before the game registers your last BTE cast. If it thinks it was after then your BTE is on CD
surreal barn
How u mean
sick wasp
i mean im 1.400
surreal barn
Oh damn
sick wasp
played vs 3-4 glads as well
i was run down its natural
but ye
its kinda crazy
fun part is that i made it with 100 more rating from that shuffle
and i dont even have healer addons or wa's i press stuff manually
😅
in all monks are scary
devokers are scary
dks are scary
idk man,game is so cringe rn
i jsut laugh and gather some tmogs
maybe another mount if i play this week
halcyon timber
I gotta know about offensive feint
Its being changed man.
Aren’t classes in pve within 5% of each other atm?
In pve its not as cut and dry yeah i dig but /shrug
Pvp*
Agreed but dunno man, pve pvp is what the “community “ nagged for
Blizz listened and yeah
How we ended up with this tom foolery
What’s balance in that regard in the most dynamic part of our world?
stoic spruce
Its being changed man.
I know but I want to know what it's like before it leaves
halcyon timber
I dunno what else they can do at this point
halcyon timber
I know but I want to know what it's like before it leaves
I dunno, im not excited about it bit im not against it either if that is what I “had to do”.
Surprising strikes and the 5% hemo like debuff is what got my attention
If i “had to” trade because “rOguE has tOo mAnY dEfEnSivEs” - forums
Id make it work
Covy nonsense was crud, all special nonsense instead of the core kit doing well
Going to take time to untangle all that
potent pivot
i'm honestly kinda expecting them to discontinue arena in favor of something more similar to plunderstorm
halcyon timber
Prob ffxiv style feast nonsense is next for ranked
halcyon timber
Even then you need limit breaks and silly class nonsense to win
Gw2 had a lot of the same nonsense in ranked
potent pivot
think plunderstorm would be the new esport
halcyon timber
Hope not
halcyon timber
It got this way when people said it was too easy and yadda yadda
potent pivot
pretty sure wow has had the most complex pvp in any game, for a long time
think ff14 just has completely different builds for pvp doesn't it?
like completely different and much fewer abilities than pve
halcyon timber
They lock you out of a lot of abilities bc people griped and you have 10sec all immunity on 1 dr
potent pivot
that shit is mad boring to watch tho ngl
halcyon timber
It used to be decent then it turned to that crap
potent pivot
i've watched all of like, 15 minutes of it
halcyon timber
When it was separate drs and classes had flexibility the. It was decent at best
halcyon timber
Hur hur limit break win
potent pivot
and some plays that get made are insane
but this expac it has been pretty boring yeah
just dmg dmg dmg
micro cc micro cc micro cc
landing set ups is a thing of the past atm
yeah it kinda takes a little determination to get into
gotta learn what every class can do
halcyon timber
Bgs is where people should start (expected) then progress into arena
halcyon timber
Its like doing heroic dungeons then doing high keys, its dramatically different as it should be
To be fair, everyone has to learn.
Honestly couldn’t say
Randomly dying to ai classes and such
Dk horsemen and mages gaining a “convoke” effect through sunfury will definitely somehow get us blamed somehow though
fading blade
wonder if theyll disable hero talents for pvp
cuz some of these are just fuckin bonkers
halcyon timber
Halved more than likely
fading blade
who am i kidding we had dom shards in pvp LOL
halcyon timber
Then unnerf stuff like they did for a lot of caster tier sets
I mean if it is truly 10% then it shouldn’t make a big difference but then again /shrug
I believe an engineer said that was the tuning part in a deep dive yt vid
Next pvp change is prob doing 2 drs then immune and other silly things.
Hurts rogues the most
Bc we are evil no matter what
Yeah we all do
Im fine with whoever has their condition but def don’t agree with zugging ever
Just never run out of juice and plug in a sega controller
Interesting note though, it appears they are slowing down the spammyness of warr / druid etc and encouraging resource management. Not sure if that is correlated but yeah
Accidental trinkets out of stuns too
Observation, not a complaint
I can definitely see 1-2 immune and longer DRs now that we are on that note
Doubling down on zug is more likely than anything else
People fotm switch no matter what
Prob would introduce “gates” at that point like people cant lose mmr below challenger and have to bump up to progress (could see that)
So if / when they got to duelist they would have to improve anyway
That’s forbidden
Can’t do that to precious pvers man how dare you
I dunno man, i just want to pvp. As long as i can stab people im pretty happy
Lots of people are too extrinsically enthusiastic for rewards and thats it
Yeah agreed
Just came back after a few months of no computer and nothing changed for sure. People are still the same.
At some point, self accountability and maturity has to kick in inward and outwardly
Yeah, they are busy working on the new stuff and we have seen this cycle for a while each new expansion
Growth, not change
halcyon timber
The wheel will turn my man
outer sky
Any big changes for PvP next season? Looking like outlaw will still be top?
waxen meteor
looks like there's zero change
sick wasp
ok hpally is kinda boring