pvp

[jolly sierra]

looks nice af

[waxen meteor]

I am using this on dh alt hah

solo communication is so important just lost 2 rounds beacuse of bad communication

should be another easy 5-1 or 6-0 lobby for sin

[jolly sierra]

nice

[jolly sierra]

its nice af

[waxen meteor]

but it didn't happen haha

[jolly sierra]

for a xmog

XD

[jolly sierra]

nooooooo

[waxen meteor]

classic game of i swap for you, and you swap for me at same time

2 rounds, basically never hit same target

also i have no clue why the ret didn't want to free farm enhance shammy, really enjoying demo lock

[jolly sierra]

i use top target for the same reason

because the fuckers are inconsistent af w targeting

[waxen meteor]

I can see who they target in my eyes, but it's not positioning and bad choice

and finally when position is right, i swapped for him, he went for my target..........

1 round was i debated with ret, to go enhance shammy or demo lock, we didn't agree with each other, but gate opened.... i went to his preferred target at open, and he went to mine...

another round, said to go ret with enhance and enhance just went straight to demo lock...

like literally, ret went to middle of map with healer sapped

shammy rode over ret and went to demo lock behind pillar

with me using deathmark and pushed ret under 35% really fast with healer priest

[peak agate]

I haven't played wow in 2 weeks. When I look at Reddit I just see people complaining about DH.

Tell me bros, is that's the truth?

[waxen meteor]

i think long story short, with cc nerf, it's kinda hard to kill people with good setup, so in order to kill, you pretty much need to do 100-0 or win by mana

100-0 DH is fairly good at it, or at least top ones

win by mana -> dps check -> dh is probably best

and also it seems nobody can kill DH, so survival -> DH also best (Solo only)

[peak agate]

Sounds like I should come back next season because I know they aren't going to do balance patches with AWC

[waxen meteor]

well i don't think it matters unless you are competing for the top1%

[peak agate]

More so the damage is a little high for DH

[waxen meteor]

and of course, mentally we have to accept some bad players can just win us

[peak agate]

And that's all I remember seeing

[echo canyon]

is this guide still up-2-date? https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/assassination/pvp-overview

[boreal shale]

i played subt + no gear dh alt

he does so much damage it's scary even if they have trinket

nasty class

[jolly sierra]

whispyr just does pve

even the talents are outdated for now

[radiant glen]

if you want an assassination pvp guide, look up "shadenox" on youtube

[echo canyon]

thanks will do so

[waxen meteor]

better to just watch shadenox's guide video, he put very good explanation on everything including 3 builds

i remember wowhead rogue pvp guide has been dated

[sweet kayak]

mastery or haste for outlaw?

[proven kayak]

wasnt it crit ?

[waxen meteor]

Vers and crit

[steel scarab]

Shadenox is definitely a PvP genius

[surreal barn]

I like the way he walks you through why he’s doing what like I’m some sort of dumbass

Which I am.

[tribal badger]

crit

or vers

mastery last resort

never haste

[austere thorn]

Does any1 have a WA for crackshot windows? Can only find pve ones

[tribal badger]

whats wrong with pve ones

[austere thorn]

They say OMG USE BTW VANISH OFF CD SOON or something

Bte* not btw

Think I'll just make one.. just need a 6s timer when coming out of stealth/vanish
Sry I havent played in months and Im trying to quit coffee but Im pretty sure its making my IQ drop by about 20 points or so

[fallen scaffold]

does outlaw need /startattack in my rotational ability macros?

[tawny kestrel]

no thats built in for damage abilities for ages now

[fallen scaffold]

thougght so

[radiant glen]

same dude

[kind jetty]

Yup

[wintry dew]

?

[grave basin]

Ho ly shit

Sorry about that

[barren sable]

Hi guys, why choose outlaw over sub or assa in solo ? Why players plays different specs at high level on random solo ? I cant determine which one is overall the strongest here

[wintry dew]

I believe it highly depends on what spec you enjoy the most for starters

If you're asking that question, I assume you're not a high rated rogue (atleast this past seasons)

So any spec can and will work from low to around 2100(?) rating

Especially in shuffle

[wintry dew]

for someone who doesn't really know what to pick

@barren sable what ratings are you used to play in?

[narrow tangle]

its fine give it a try

[peak agate]

I got my 1800s on a few character. But I'm a terrible caster and I want my life to be easier lul

Also since I'm bored at work. How ya feel about hero talents?I just read about them. Making feint do damage and increase range on some cc

[tawny kestrel]

rogue is good, no reason not to play

2nd best melee

and good into dh in general so it’s alright

[lapis breach]

Hey all, pretty stuck in 1650 ss as Sin. Is there some way I can share my setup and ask for tips on what I’m doing wrong? I’m using Shadenox’s build and gear pretty much. If I could hit 2k I’d be satisfied. Maybe it’s just practice? I just returned 3-4 months ago after a very very long break.

I feel like I’m good at killing with spike damage but attrition battles I’m losing regularly, which feels kinda backwards for Sin.

I’m also not using any macros, maybe that’s a weak spot? I use Gladiator and I’ll switch to healer to Blind after Sap ends, and try to Gouge them when I’m close. I’ll sometimes Cheapshot them as well if I don’t see an imminent kill with the combo points.

[lapis breach]

& I'll add, definitely think I'm capable, often top KBs in battlegrounds, including in an 1850s RBG lobby recently, and was 2200 on DK a long time ago

[tawny kestrel]

youre probably overthinking things a lot

assa is more or less just do max damage and kidney things

[surreal barn]

Yeah what he said. Sometimes just cleaving in the healer the whole match is what gets the job done also

[tawny kestrel]

cleaving healer as assa in shuffle is mandatory tbh

[chrome schooner]

Why do we have such a rant here?

[chrome schooner]

Cool.

Well, I just mean this isn't reaaaaaaally the place to send 50 posts about how sad you are about DH, whether it is warranted or not (which it is, actually)

It's also well, Rogues have been where DHs are right now plenty of time

It's a cycle in this game

Sometimes it's someone else's turn, someone it's whatever you fancy playing

Gotta take it cool !

Assa in the first half of DF S1 was easily as good as DH right now

Sub Rogue in SL S1 and S2 as well

And Outlaw in SL S3 and S4 was so broken that there even was an AWC in which every single team, in every single match in the final phases, had an Outlaw, with two teams playing 2x Outlaw

So, as I said, it's just a cycle

[tribal badger]

i feel like thats arguable was there any point this expac where any rogue spec was the number 1 played shuffle spec let alone almost twice the representation of other non healer specs?

i guess u could say the playerbase for rogue is just smaller so even when its broken its playercount doesnt show that

the only times i remember this happening was ret post rework, and dh right now

its a combo of both yes

being very strong and very easy to play

i just got tired of queuing cause even at 2400 over half my lobbies were double dh

and its just an exhausting spec to deal with

zooming around whole game auto aoe cleaving everything, dotting everything, 4 micro cc interupts for every crackshot window

impossible to get openers in the lobbies due to my own dh teammate and the enemy one

[chrome schooner]

It's 50% btw.

It's actually consistent now if you don't use it too low on health

Or maybe 30% ? But it's no longer only 20%

Doesn't it say

"doubled if not in a raid group" by any chance ? Making it 50% ?

I'm pretty sure it does

[chrome schooner]

So it is 50% !

[proven kayak]

how qs in solo shuffle are ? i havent play like for 2 months

maybe longer

[north rain]

Read brother read !

[north rain]

It doesn’t work on them dots tho

Why do you play tempest btw shade? Myk said it was dps loss to use

[chrome schooner]

Ofc Darkness works on DoTs

I only play Crimson when I play a build with Kb and Carnage because there is a floating point that is good absolutely nowhere, so might as well have CT in case there is a good moment to use it

[surreal barn]

What’s that point shift into when you’re not playing it

[chrome schooner]

Sometimes you can use it

If people triple stack and you have other DoTs

Or if there are many pets + players so if gets fully buffed

Then it does good damage + buffs the rest of your damage with Lethal Dose

It's just that you shouldn't try to use it much, only if it's free

It's better than having 10% extra damage on WOUND POISON for instance

[surreal barn]

Yeah that’s what I was thinking

The SV working on tempest can give you that OH DAMN damage

I’m really have a hard time pushing on my non nightelves >.<

I know i still make a ton of mistakes but it really helps regain momentum in shuffle

[waxen meteor]

People at DH discord keeps saying it’s 100% in pvp

But I really don’t feel so

I actually asked a couple of times there but from top dogs to random people triple confirm to me it’s 100%

[chrome schooner]

People at DH Discord must be very bipolar then because every day I hear one complain someone on their team died through Darkness

Maybe they can't understand English, and when they read "chance increased by 100%" they don't get that it means previous chance times 2 and not chance becomes 100%

Bu no, it's not 100%

You can record any game vs DH, then look at what happens on Darkness, you will see health move

[surreal barn]

Can confirm I die in darkness

[tribal badger]

Some things seem to bypass is

It's supposed to be 100% as far as I know tho

Usually if u tunnel people in darkness u will notice their hp basically does not move

So its certainly not 50%

But some effects do definetly hit through it (probably unintentionally)

[gleaming pawn]

except the tooltip clearly says increase by 100%, which is doubling the current effect

and a coin flip is crazy easy to have observation bias that it either does or does not work

[waxen meteor]

Tbh such descriptions are not best too. Been seeing such in every game and it creates confusion everywhere

It could be put as dodge chance *2 when not in raid group etc

Also I think the expectation to have a group 100% dodge skill with potentially only 2min CD is unrealistic

And it dodges physics and spells

[chrome schooner]

They could clearly type "becomes 50% while not in a raid"

[waxen meteor]

Basically group bubble

[chrome schooner]

But ultimately the only people who don't understand the tooltip are the ones who want to misinterpret it

[waxen meteor]

Yeah

But there are indeed lots of game turn to write descriptions like that

Crazy

Increase unit’s magic resistance by 200%

I was like wtf

Then I realize unit has base magic resistance of 5% this skill only increases the 5 to 10

[chrome schooner]

5 to 15 then

:p

[waxen meteor]

yeah the to and by are also a thing

Depends on if developers speak English

[tribal badger]

It's supposed to have a pvp specific mod

And idk about coinflip when you do a full dance vanish on a dh in darkness and their hp bar doesn't move an inch

At least an auto attack or something should hit through it

That's a lot of instances of damage

Maybe it's a pvp talent?

[waxen meteor]

It’s not a pvp talent

It’s a normal talent you can even enhance it

Either duration or cd

Honestly if it’s a 2min group bubble that’s a bit too broken

[chrome schooner]

There is no PvP specific mod

idk why the discussion about this takes so long when you can log in and see, or take any wow recording of the season with a DH in it and see

BASICALLY

It used to be 20% at all times, and you could pick a PvP talent to make it 70% in PvP combat only

Then, they changed it to 25% baseline, doubled (so, to 50%) when outside of a raid group to make it more consistent and less casino in m+ (and by extension in PvP but I don't think that it was their primary concern), and of course they removed the PvP talent

(this is meant t the people who keep saying no)

[surreal barn]

trill or some other DH died through darkness in AWC last cup

[spring bough]

DH "you suck no CC" yet DH wins 1 game out of the lobby and its with me LMAO

[jolly sierra]

ME DH ME SLASH

[frigid plank]

For Sub, Do I run Double Daggers or Dagger MH Claws OH?

[boreal shale]

i run dagger main hand and crafted mastery dagger off hand

if you don't pve then run the bloody token mace with mastery

[tribal badger]

can do either

double daggers probably more damage but it doesnt make a noticable different usually

[ashen pine]

should i go for 4 set pieces first or getting jewelry first

in terms of conquest points

[boreal shale]

tier first

[exotic dove]

No one playing today fighting the same 3-4 teams at 2100 range in 3s we decided to make it a short session stayed same rating

sadge

[boreal shale]

curbstomp

[echo canyon]

is there a reason why no assa rogue plays with 4 set? is it really that bad?

[radiant glen]

yes

[exotic dove]

Yeah I stopped running it the extra mastery is better imo

[mortal jay]

good morning roguey type friends

yes.. the lack of mastery on the 4 setmakes it unviable

40k garrotte ticks will make up for it.. promise 🙂

[long shore]

anyone using BetterBlizzFrames and BetterBlizzPlates know how to disable the buffs showing above the personal resource display bar?

these buffs for example

[mortal jay]

aye use weakauras for that

spefically akarnafarafarrfkarfanars rogue wa

[jolly sierra]

since long time ago in season

[mortal jay]

I...are are you agreeing with me or arguing a point by making the exact point i made? lol

[jolly sierra]

agreeing, we tested that long time ago

and decided to drop to 2set in the server

[tiny maple]

Hey. I used an add on in shadowlands that showed combat or not so that I knew if I could sap but I forgot the addons name. Anyone have it?

[surreal barn]

@tiny maple sappable

[tiny maple]

That’s the one yes. Thanks man!

[stoic spruce]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf3FOEL3KjE crackshot be like

[stoic spruce]

OMG OLD BETWEEN THE EYES HAIIII ^-^

[surreal barn]

It’s a good night to queue shuffles

A lot of dumbasses on

[lapis breach]

Should I (Sin) be using a 489 Nick over Verdant Glad's + Hellbloom Dirk?

I guess not, nobody seems to be using it, just wondering if that's an access issue rather than a BiS issue

[boreal shale]

probably yes

[mortal jay]

over hellbloom dirk? yes. over crafted 489 dagger no

[gleaming pawn]

the haste wont do much for you, and the timestrike is pretty meh. If you have it, it can save you having to buy the gladiator dagger for sure. But if it is BiS it's not going to be by a large margin in pvp and wont really matter unless you're playing for r1

[waxen meteor]

Honestly I am not sure what timestrike does

[mortal jay]

bis is 1 verdant dagger, 1 489 crafted dagger

[waxen meteor]

I just know nick is a bis for pve

As for why, no idea

[boreal shale]

cz timestrike = big dam

i don't see why you shouldn't use it if you already have it

but if you don't then it's not worth grinding for a pair

[waxen meteor]

I have only 483 nick it’s probably alright as off hand

Do we have time strike formula link?

Or does time strike even work in pvp?

[waxen meteor]

I don’t think you can craft 489 dagger or any gear over 486

[lapis breach]

i have hellbloom, verdant, 489 nick, and plenty of conquest. no crafted dagger yet. i need to do my necklace first

[gleaming pawn]

run Nick in your MH, and Verdant in your OH

[mortal jay]

OH THATS ODD.. SO WHAT LEVEL DAGGER IS CRAFTED WITH NASCENT ASPECT'S CREST INT HAT SLOT THEN?

[gleaming pawn]

if Timestrike actually procs, it's just free damage

[lapis breach]

thanks!

i like free damage

[mortal jay]

caps.. sorry . have caps lock bound to evasion. rofl

[gleaming pawn]

all crafted items are 486, and there is no pvp token to boost the ilvl to 489 in pvp for weapons

[waxen meteor]

Max craft is 486

[mortal jay]

oh man thats wierd

[lapis breach]

^ keep spamming buddy

[waxen meteor]

I did two of the 10w weekly in skirmish as one on two haha

[lapis breach]

it's so satisfying to win those

[waxen meteor]

Yep

It feels this is a classic thing won’t work in pvp..

[steel scarab]

SS lobbies with 2 Demon Hunters in them are just absolute cancer

Blizzard is awful

Just putting it out there

[lapis breach]

totally agree, DH is bs

+500 rating automatically

[gleaming pawn]

it works in pvp, it just has an abysmal proc rate

[boreal shale]

is 4 set just worse than mastery for sin or is it grief?

[waxen meteor]

4 set does almost no dmg in pvp somehow

it seems a bug and it seems no one will take care of it

4 set dmg is essentially like 10% of sin dmg in myth, but it seems doing nothing in pvp

[gleaming pawn]

Sin doesn't spec/play around Envenom

coupled with the damage being a huge joke

the 4-set sucks in pvp

[waxen meteor]

it's okay free dmg if it applies like pve

[gleaming pawn]

yeah but PvE talents for better envenomo usage

and has the uptime to really make it work

[waxen meteor]

yeah

[gleaming pawn]

pvp sin just doesn't have what it needs to make the 4-set playable

I tried a lot, a lot of theory crafting and testing

[waxen meteor]

using 4 tier is just trading vers vs crit, it's not sacrificing too much priority stat

[gleaming pawn]

and its just ass

[waxen meteor]

so if 4 tier actaully does ddmg

it's okay good free dmg

[boreal shale]

should i prio crafted chest and leg over ring and neck then?

[waxen meteor]

why do you need to craft a chest or leg

[gleaming pawn]

you can run pvp chest and legs

you get a ton of mastery from the crafted rings

[lapis breach]

is it possible to macro healthstone to vial?

[gleaming pawn]

which is the whole point

[gleaming pawn]

I believe Shadenox has the crafted listed as BiS

[waxen meteor]

the difference is minimum

[gleaming pawn]

I agree

[boreal shale]

just what people are running

[waxen meteor]

don't craft chest/leg

it's probably even worse than conquest

[gleaming pawn]

I still prefer running 33-34% vers anyway, given how squishy Sin is

[waxen meteor]

if you really have too much craft material and too much gold, craft wriest and belt

[gleaming pawn]

but I'm not playing at r1 so the others opinion is more valid

[waxen meteor]

at least you gain 3 item levels there

crafting chest/leg does NOTHING but tradiing equal amount of vers to mastery

which can be better or worse depends on yourself

[gleaming pawn]

you can squeeze out a little bit more mastery going with the crafted, at the expense of vers because of the stat weights

[waxen meteor]

the thing is for sin, vers/mastery can be quite close

[gleaming pawn]

and going crafted is the only way to get the maximum mastery everyone wants to run

~80%

[waxen meteor]

i mean if you really want to push dmg to max, probably craft wriest and belt first

you get some primary stat

and HP

[jolly sierra]

tested it w shadenox at early season

doesnt worth it

[boreal shale]

i'm just running it cz i don't have anything else

[jolly sierra]

its fine

[boreal shale]

asking if i should craft rings before replacing tier

[waxen meteor]

rings are first to craft

[jolly sierra]

but seems like mastery/vers its better than tier

in 2 slots

[waxen meteor]

especially if you started this season just now

[jolly sierra]

hmmmm

[gleaming pawn]

you were running sub right, you didn't have the double mastery/vers crafted rings already?

[boreal shale]

it's my third rogue

[jolly sierra]

lemme see

[gleaming pawn]

ah

[waxen meteor]

then why are you still asking this lol 🙂

[boreal shale]

never played sin before lol

[waxen meteor]

no much diff than other specs

[jolly sierra]

wait

[waxen meteor]

personally i put mastery > vers for sub

but i don'

i don't put mastery > vers for sin

[jolly sierra]

u get the trophies, right?

[boreal shale]

yeah i got 2 trophies

[jolly sierra]

use them in a helm and a belt

ah no

helm and boots

get a ring w craft

after that

then a chest, then a neck

then bracers

then an OH (optional)

[waxen meteor]

not a problem as long as you have

[jolly sierra]

eng bracers

[waxen meteor]

i don't know how that thing catch up

[boreal shale]

i just spam queue til i get sparks

the flightstones are the bottleneck early on anyway

[waxen meteor]

why do we need flightstones though?

[boreal shale]

to make sparks

250 each

why i don't fucking know

[jolly sierra]

ah

[waxen meteor]

i didn't even realize it lol

[jolly sierra]

just go lfr

the sparks will drop by themselves

XD

[waxen meteor]

been at max flightstones like forever

[boreal shale]

i was bored so i thought of making an alt

didn't know what to play then it hit me

i like rogue so i make rogue

[waxen meteor]

i actually don't understand why people making many different chars of same class...

unless you are racing for r1 or sth...

[boreal shale]

cz there's literally not a single other class i feel like playing at all

[jolly sierra]

best vanilla extra servant

[boreal shale]

i have 3 rogues, a mage, a priest, a hunter and a warlock

but i haven't logged into anything but rogue since mid ss2

[lapis breach]

i was thinking of trying SSF rogue

but, then cant really pvp

[waxen meteor]

what does ssf mean

super street fighter?

[lapis breach]

solo self-found

+classic hardcore, only items you find

[waxen meteor]

[steel scarab]

I am thinking 1937 might be my max assassination rating this season

I cannot seem to go higher

DH are just so miserable to play against but they also aren't good as a rogue teammate

[lapis breach]

hey that's pretty excellent

is that 2's?

[steel scarab]

Solo Shuffle 😦

[lapis breach]

very nice, im stuck at like 1650

[boreal shale]

2k mmr is a joke

i didn't even have my second crafted item yet

[steel scarab]

Jesus god can I have your UI

[boreal shale]

queued into a bunch of warrior dh paladin today

[steel scarab]

Mine is fucking awful comparatively, I feel like I'd go up at least 100 rating just with that UI

Why do they not bake that into the game

[lapis breach]

really? i find it blinding

(no offense, glad it works for you)

i couldnt do it

[stoic spruce]

More ui than game lol

[steel scarab]

How do your bars look so good

the HP bars

[boreal shale]

i got a hd icon pack

hp bars are from plater

[steel scarab]

Man maybe I should try plater

I just

Ugh

they need to fix the UI of this game

[stoic spruce]

There's nothing to fix. People will use the addons they've been using for a decade anyway

[boreal shale]

i used to run plater for pve only but 1 time i forgot to turn it off and it felt nicer

[steel scarab]

I mean in both of those games I just watched in that video

They just didn't use defensives

like

How are those people at 2000

[boreal shale]

yeah idk

it was almost 2100

[steel scarab]

Meanwhile

I was just playing against an arcane mage with 1600 rating

[boreal shale]

people just weren't pressing defensives into sin for some reason

[steel scarab]

Who had a 200 iq

[lapis breach]

this is my 1600 experience

i join 1850 rbgs and crush, but cant get past 1600 ss

[boreal shale]

20% of my games this whole afternoon we just won in the opener cz people pressed nothing

started at like 1900 mmr iirc

[lapis breach]

wow. sign me up

[steel scarab]

I also feel like me taking Smoke Bomb is practically a wasted talent because I don't have anything that tracks enemy trinkets / defensive cooldowns

So half the time I use it, they just trinket my kidney and I'm just like "oh"

[lapis breach]

yeahhh me too on smoke

might replace with dismantle

[steel scarab]

Dismantle feels just as awful half the time

Fucking DH can dodge it lol

Balanced gameplay

[lapis breach]

right, ech

[steel scarab]

Worse, they can dodge it from behind

[lapis breach]

control is king? lol

[boreal shale]

don't press disarm into blur/evasion/parry

[steel scarab]

Control is king is fine

[boreal shale]

i take disarm every melee game

[steel scarab]

I can't even tell when they're up, I don't have an add on screaming at me when things happen

cloak is obvious

[boreal shale]

just run omnicd

[steel scarab]

Is that easy to install

[boreal shale]

it has a box to the right of the hp bar that shows what buff/debuff they have

[steel scarab]

I can't deal with add ons that fuck up my entire screen on install until I move everything around for an hour

[boreal shale]

it's nothing like a weakaura

[steel scarab]

ok, i'll try it

[boreal shale]

the most labourous thing you'll have to do is select what buttons you want it to track and what prio it should show

[steel scarab]

The only add ons I'm currently using is a Dimishing Returns tracker (Which helped hugely and should ABSOLUTELY be baked into the base UI) and the PvE Weakaura

[boreal shale]

but that's about all

i don't run any weakaura

i can't play with a bot screaming into my ears

[steel scarab]

Mine doesn't have any sound lol

It's just Aefnar's

[boreal shale]

ah spaceship UI

tried setting that up 3 times and gave up mid way all 3 times cz i can't understand how that works

lmao

[steel scarab]

I'm gonna try omnicd

[boreal shale]

admittedly i should remove the personal cd tracker

but i just play worse for no reason if i remove them

but i just see through them anyway so it doesn't bother me at all

[steel scarab]

I tried omnicd

There were 2 huge bars of abilities all across my screen

I gave up immediately and turned it off lol

[calm heath]

WTB more passive defensives for Assassination in PVP.

Anyone selling?

[waxen meteor]

One of the primary reason is probably because most default addons don't track KB?

I mean I feel still there are healers reacting to DM way more than KB

[boreal shale]

it tracks every cd that has been pressed. You can turn that off iirc

and just use the one that shows buffs/debuffs

[sick wasp]

u can customize what u want and what not

when i was doing higher rated arenas used to have an old addon called ''spy''

dunno if it still exists but it would track trinkets and major cds

unless u are into some srs nerd-tracking u dont need more than a trinket,especially for shuffles

[sick wasp]

Also shade has a new vid vs pretty much rank 1 ppl in 3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXl2-tdSl0Q

[wanton breach]

just got graped by ww, arms and fury in my first solo shuffle in months - very pleasant experience, would do it again

really justifies waiting 45 minutes

[north rain]

I recommend demon hunter it’s assa but better

[surreal barn]

Good one

[sick wasp]

yup the man has grown to be a rank 1 rogue

high quality sin tech

[hidden dome]

Pika playing Outlaw in AWC makes me happy as an outlaw main

[sick wasp]

pika got slapped yday playing outlaw

[orchid nacelle]

he just destroyed Dex the druid, that was awesome

[sick wasp]

Echo got Outlaw'd lmao

[next drum]

Sick game

[sick wasp]

yeah it was mental

but in the end you gotta know

never let the brawler brawl

+1 for outlaw

[wanton breach]

trill is just an insane damage machine

[proven kayak]

he is just way too insane at outlaw rogue

[plucky sage]

better to upgrade trinkets then ring/neck

or other way around?

resto druid << not sure if int from medallion is better than stats from jewelrry

[boreal shale]

badge first medallion last

[safe cloak]

How come I sometimes get 6 out of 7 combo points after a sepsis in shadowblades? I should get 7 but from time to time I dont get full combo points

[sick wasp]

Raiku is even better

the horniest mfker 😄

[radiant glen]

its bugged

[safe cloak]

visual bug?

[radiant glen]

no

sepsis doesnt always generate the correct amount of combo points

[safe cloak]

uuuhm, that is not good

[exotic dove]

That tourny today the first Echo VS Liquid that game 5 was the best AWC game I have watched in a very long time if ever

[waxen meteor]

shamy lock dh one?

[exotic dove]

Yeah

Sam dies but then trill takes out Raiku in the kidney and then half a minute later Chan falls

and the casters are yelling 2v3

and trill is insane

[boreal shale]

dude literally said echo is moving to the finals

then i thought to myself "way to jinx it dude"

[exotic dove]

Yeah Trill with his gameplay told Ziqo hold my beer lol

[boreal shale]

seconds after trill whipped his big fat veiny cock out and slapped it all over the dh

[sick wasp]

Echo got outlaw'd,it happens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGnqrpuypdc

Echo is far better a team than liquid though

i think they could have more luck if the que'd sub into chanimal's lock

sub is well known to cheese locks

[sharp sierra]

Im not sure if its right place but i reroll to outlaw yday and im looking for someone who could help me get into spec how to play against certain comps etc i have glad xp on other classes but its my first rogue and i feel kinda lost ^^ sorry if this is not roght place to ppst this message

[waxen meteor]

it sounds like a 2on3 win from all comments, but it appears to be just a mana win?

looks like DH was dead in 3 on 2 situation mostly because shammy had no mana?

[sick wasp]

they could have cc'd him,DH died inside literally a fear's DR

thats not normal

and ye ofc there was a mana issue,for sure

[waxen meteor]

this is a while before kidney

I saw shammy actually did nothing during kidney

seems he was trying to heal

probably literally 0 mana

anyway, i guess outlaw and dh will get some nerf in 10 days lol

caster as always will escape from nerf

[tribal badger]

surely they wont nerf outlaw when it has like 100 players total in the game

[waxen meteor]

tbh it's really surprising they didn't touch dh and outlaw for this long

but overall it seems clear the cc nerf was really horrible idea

[sick wasp]

its gonna get gutted

[tribal badger]

the spec is too difficult to gut it spec only has like 100 people above 2400 it doesnt deserve a nerf

actually i already have my 2400 stuff on my rogue why do i even care

as long as dh gets gutterstomped im happy

im just farming my priest/hunters mog before the end of the season now

get these purples out of my games

[sick wasp]

the reason why the outlaw couldnt be cc'd its actually coz clos came back just in time and killed the DH inside a clos

thats even crazier^^

there was nothing they could actually do

if u see trill's cds under his frame u will see that he presses clos the moment he gets back from cc so no coils,no hexes,nothing can stop him

kills raiku in a stun+inside his clos

the only thing lontar could actually do was try to heal but he was tapped

[stoic spruce]

RiP outlaw

[stoic spruce]

You are a fool for saying this

[hidden dome]

I don't care how balanced outlaw is. I got my 1.8 with him when he was F tier and I got it when he was S tier.

I just enjoy playing him.

[stoic spruce]

Lol

1.8

Okay go sabotage elsewhere plz

Fake outlaw

[hidden dome]

lol

So you are a multi glad then?

[stoic spruce]

We're not talking about me

[hidden dome]

Well, unless your playing for glad, then what does it matter?

You can get 2.1 with outlaw each season with no trouble

Even though I usually get 2.1 with healers

I have done so with outlaw too

[stoic spruce]

It's not about rating, it's about the fact that whatever is in AWC is in blizzards crosshairs.

[hidden dome]

Yes, but I do not care if he is nerfed. I just enjoy playing him and seeing him played.

I play outlaw/combat since wrath. I play him for the flavor not for his power

[stoic spruce]

Say the same about dk plz, maybe it'll come into fruition

Dh

Or dk ig

[hidden dome]

DH needs to be nerfed, yes.

DK was nerfed plenty. At least in 2s he is no longer a problem.

The armor nerf really messed with DK, making 90% of DK players re-roll once they hit the Wall of Arms and DHs

But you are 100% correct, I am not the right person to speak on balance. As I will just start ranting about DHs when I do.
There are others in this discord which are actually good at PvP and their opinions are more worthwhile than mine

[stoic spruce]

Yours is the only one I care about rn

See it's like this right

You say you're an outlaw main, then pray for its downfall.

Pm

You said

[hidden dome]

The last time Outlaw was played in AWC he was giga nerfed in a week afterwards.
Blizz just insta nerfs Outlaw the moment he shows up even once in AWC

[stoic spruce]

"I HOPE OUTLAW CEASES TO EXIST"

So tell me

Does that sounds like what an outlaw main would say?

I also have a recording of you saying "I only play assa" while at a restaurant

With one of my spies

[hidden dome]

I think I need to speak to my lawyer. And maybe make a youtube apology...

I have been exposed

as a fraud

In truth I was always just a DH main

[stoic spruce]

I fuckin knew it

[steel scarab]

I played in a SS against 2 demon hunters and went 3-3. I was very displeased but happy I didn't go 0-6 I guess

Then another SS I went against a ret and a DH and went 5-1

So I feel like I'm getting better against them

But they seriously feel awful to play against

[surreal barn]

I saved trills gear - did you see that insane combination

Even his snowballs were sometimes hitting for 80k

[sick wasp]

yup

the man smoked Raiku like it was nothing

nothing they could do

im just sad that the best rogue in NA doesnt show up in AWC coz no competitive team

[stoic spruce]

Sorry. I just couldn't find anyone.

[waxen meteor]

don't worry outlaw will be nerfed because you can try

[waxen meteor]

Good for you!

I just witnessed a sin got 1-5 with double DH and a ret in my own lobby

Gladly I am the ret…

[jolly sierra]

do u recommend cleave build for 2s?

or is better just go with bone spike?

[surreal barn]

Depends on the comp

[waxen meteor]

If it’s against BM/Demo etc you can go with cleave build

Honestly I think for sin in 2s it’s easier to target healer

Silence 3 + CS 4 + kidney 2.5 is really good against healer and give them no time to dispel KB

Especially if you start the go after a kick

Potentially shut down healer for 12.5 sec

[surreal barn]

The AoE silence is soooo strong vs double caster since they are so often standing together on the same pillar to LoS

[jolly sierra]

im thinking in going aoe build as standard again tho

its giving me better results

in general

tried w bone spike and gave me less

but got mirror matches against assas and won all

[waxen meteor]

bone doesn't seem to do much dot dmg

just good one shot dmg from range

and low enegery spender

[jolly sierra]

yep

and fok is very good for combo points and damage now

[waxen meteor]

i still feel werid not having deadly poison in sin

conquest chest can be shipped between factions right?

[jolly sierra]

if is BoA, yes+

[surreal barn]

I love being able to gouge whenever.

[jolly sierra]

ive fighting people in 2k rating and winning at 1k1 CR in 2s (had the mmr inflated)

i think can rest for now from SS, also, 2s is better for volatile internet

the deal for the t3 was good af by hiring a healer lol

[proven kayak]

I have like 3 months off the game is Outlaw time of the season or sub is good

[jolly sierra]

outlaw is the best rn

[pine badge]

i play sub. love it

[outer sky]

Is outlaw or assass better for healer+dps 2s?

[radiant glen]

i believe outlaw is more meta but both are good imo

[outer sky]

Does Hemo stack with wound poison?

[surreal barn]

no

[outer sky]

So why would anyone ever play Hemo?

[surreal barn]

I’m pretty sure it’s just a shiv debuff that can’t be cleansed like a normal poison but I could be wrong

Test it with a shaman and poison cleanse totem

[waxen meteor]

with 4% or sth more

imo it's almost no value these days

[tribal badger]

back when people played it more they generally didnt run wound poison iirc

they just ran deadly for higher raw damage pressure and hemotoxic for the big heal cut during goes

[waxen meteor]

yeah

[jolly sierra]

its a little and undispelleable MS effect

but also is used to use deadly

[radiant glen]

not a great talent but imo if ur into double caster and dont need physcloak or disarm you could run control is king, hemo and smoke bomb

and then all hemo would allow you to do is swap more efficiently without needing to stack wound

[hidden moth]

anyone got a good build for sub rogue for 2v2’s and 3v3’s? i’ve been checking the top players and some run shiv and some not but tbh im not comfortable on not using shiv cause i just like that slow.

[safe cloak]

If you want shiv, play with shiv. And i wouldnt say that there is a bad build on sub. Just different playstyles. I would suggest making your own build and taking the stuff that you like. There is minimal difference in damage no matter what you play.

[hidden moth]

im playing the echo build rn

[sick wasp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0H4Okngpto

the man

the legend

[digital crypt]

Anyone running 4 set with assas? Murlok has no one using it

[wintry dew]

It must mean something

👀

[digital crypt]

Stats are so outta whack or the bonus doesnt work in pvp?

or is scaled?

[wintry dew]

• mastery better than the bonus

[tribal badger]

the way u play in pvp in general u wont be able to get much mileage out of the bonus + trying to play around its nerfed version probably not evern worth anyway

i doubt ur performing long envenom chains in pvp

at anypoint

[digital crypt]

Damn you are right tho I am really not

[tribal badger]

like the set bonus gets its value from how in pve between cds u refresh enevenom right as its about to fall for long periods of time

basically till ur energy runs out

but... u dont do that in pvp

xd

[sick wasp]

there is no reason to go for 4p on sin ye,its mostly pve orientated

[tribal badger]

so ur basically just getting ur burst bonus from it and its already nerfed in pvp

just very very weak

[sick wasp]

u basicly need alot of uptime and spam envenoms

[wintry dew]

Tldr mastery > 4 set

[sick wasp]

thats not a thing in pvp

[digital crypt]

Thank you!

[sick wasp]

ye pretty much

[lone goblet]

Any idea if Cruel Dreamcarver bonus effects work in pvp? The heal 20% health when you fall to 10% seems solid.

Also has high vers on it. That just seems like better than a pvp weapon.

[wintry dew]

The dagger is extremely easy to get (2nd raid boss) so If top players aren't using it, shouldn't be good enough

[tribal badger]

it has a pvp mod of 0.4

so it will heal you for 8% hp?

its pretty bad

and its not a real cheat death it wont prevent lethal damage

also it can proc at the same time as actual cheat death

that being said, i see no reason why people wouldnt use it other then not wanting to raid mythic

[jolly sierra]

its bad

its nerfed+

[tribal badger]

it doesnt give up any secondaries

[jolly sierra]

and depends of day

[tribal badger]

its just a 489 mast vers dagger

[jolly sierra]

it gives more vers than mast

and priority right now is a chunk of mastery

[tribal badger]

oh right the other specs actually care about vers DR

outlaw brain

[lone goblet]

Hmm could always go for the 2% move speed or the leech then.

It looks like the leech doesnt have a pvp modifier

[tribal badger]

if u want

dont think its worth for pvp tho like the others have said

[jolly sierra]

dont think so, also the wep changes effect per day

when is used in humanoids (most of cases)

imo a crafted versa mastery wep is better

[exotic dove]

I dropped four set for assa on all my rogues

I haven't played for a couple days but for those that did how did the games go

[steel scarab]

I'm not even convinced the 2 set is worth it

So little of our damage is nature, and the attack speed increase only matters if you have extended melee uptime, which in practice isn't usually the case

Either you're being kited, or it's like a DH or a ret or a warrior that you don't actually want to be meleeing

[exotic dove]

I guess its debatable but the stat sticks like for example high mastery tier gloves are nice to me

[sick wasp]

2p matters alot,u basicly get full stacked by pressing a feint and doting up

the ramp is very fast so when u actually make contact u benefit

[tawny kestrel]

you lose any dagger effect when u enter pvp, so u have to reuse it in arena so u can only really get the humanoid one, obviously there are exceptions like demon, beast, undead

[exotic dove]

I personally want the two set

[steel scarab]

That could be, maybe I will try the two piece again

[sick wasp]

😉

[sick wasp]

all the love in the world 🫶

[tawny kestrel]

[surreal barn]

We fighting NPCs in comp stomp

Interesting

[exotic dove]

Oh its comp stomp this week?

[surreal barn]

AB

[surreal barn]

I have the hardest time completing one of the AB achievements

It’s the overcome 500 resource deficit one

It never came naturally and trying to force it sucks lol

[stoic spruce]

alteract balley

[halcyon timber]

Hope they talk more about that new battleground in TWW soon

[stoic spruce]

The idea of it is sick tbh

[waxen meteor]

The effect applies when there’s a body right?

Where can you find a body in arena

After killing one person you probably don’t need the buff anyway

[jolly sierra]

its w a living char

both players and npcs

[lone goblet]

I didnt realize it clears when you enter arena.

it doesnt clear for normal activities

So your stuck with only the humanoid buff, or sometimes what pets will give you

[jolly sierra]

does it worth?

[buoyant oriole]

hey guys, quick question on rogue pvp gear, how much value is there in the tier set bonus? i.e. Is it worth having raid finder ilvl tier set instead of verdant pvp gear?

Outlaw btw

[surreal barn]

It works on Druid forms too

[hexed pollen]

as assa i dont use teir set, but maybe for outlaw not sure

[stoic spruce]

Don't answer him

He's a dk invader

[inner tartan]

do 3s w ith a hunter stap there pet for big leech

[stoic spruce]

4set on outlaw is such a QoL improvement

[radiant glen]

new changes live!

[tribal badger]

pvp is saved

[gleaming pawn]

Don’t worry, DH will be meta crushing until War Within. Just accept it, you’ll be happier

[surreal barn]

I don’t mind em

I actually get kinda sad when they aren’t in my shuffle, I’m so used to them playing on my team at this point 😂

It’s kind of like having a really strong pet.

[radiant glen]

id take a 3 dh lobby over a 3 pala lobby

any day

[lone goblet]

3 dh, 2 holy paladin and you in the shuffle.

[nova viper]

More DH more fun

[nova viper]

Seeeexooooooooo

Spanish booooy whaaats up

[clever elk]

On Drustvar(website): is that for my Server?

[clever elk]

• crafted (Equpped) or + PvP Vers/Crit (Have soccket upgrade)

[jolly sierra]

SEXOOOOOOO

[jolly sierra]

an awful last week, but starting to improve luckily

[kind jay]

hey! for sub in pvp should I be taking different talents if I'm gonna run double dps?

[hidden moth]

do u macro cold blood with kingsbane ? im learning assa and have echo build im not enjoying it much

any other recommendations?

[jolly sierra]

go with CT build

[stoic spruce]

Chicken Terriyaki build?

[jolly sierra]

cock thunder build

[stoic spruce]

uwu

[hidden moth]

ill try it out thanks

[jolly sierra]

np

alternatively dont pick subterfuge and nightstalker and pick both the feather and the vial under the wound poison talent

[surreal barn]

I actually drop vial and get that extra slow on cripple too

But I’ve been running 28% versa 😂

[tardy spruce]

what poisons do we use for 1v1 pvp?

[tardy spruce]

(for an assassination rogue with these talents)

[fallen scaffold]

Dude wtf is with this outlaw between the eyes bug. I googled it and hella people have same issue but can't find any solutions

[jolly sierra]

1v1?

[tardy spruce]

you use crimson tempest in pvp ?

[fallen scaffold]

I'll be spamming BTE with full combo points, Energy and BTE just doesn't work. My character will half do the animation like he's lifting his arm up to raise gun and then stops and nothing happens. The BTE button just lights up on my bar

[jolly sierra]

yes

[fallen scaffold]

No combat log, no combo pts removed from it, it just doesn't cast

Usually happens during dance/subterfuge

[tardy spruce]

ok and which poisons to use?

[fallen scaffold]

Targets in front of me

[jolly sierra]

dont think is a good idea to go 1v1 as assa

is better sub

u need the healer behind

[fallen scaffold]

Assa is booty in anything other than 3s tbh

[jolly sierra]

in 2s is good af

[fallen scaffold]

With a healer I guess

Not as r/m

[jolly sierra]

ofc w a healer

[tardy spruce]

ok well what poisons for 2's in general? instant or deadly?

[tardy spruce]

and these are mainly rbg talents when you're fighting many ppl at once? I can't see benefit of the fan of knives talent if you're fighting 1-2 peeps?

[fallen scaffold]

Ppl still play rbgs ?

[jolly sierra]

in RBG u go to teamfight w that build

with wound poison

[tardy spruce]

ok yea figured

what about 2v2 talents?

[jolly sierra]

same ones

[fallen scaffold]

Assas doesn't use 4pc right

[tardy spruce]

do u use deadly or instant poison for the main spot?

[fallen scaffold]

U don't ever use instant

[tardy spruce]

do u have subtlety 2's pvp talents?

[jolly sierra]

xd

[jolly sierra]

no

[fallen scaffold]

When are u pressing envenom

[tardy spruce]

use wound + crippling?

[fallen scaffold]

That'd be only options yes

[tardy spruce]

is sub better for pvp in general/arenas?

[fallen scaffold]

Yes

Outlaw is best

[tardy spruce]

what haha really

[fallen scaffold]

By far

Sub and assas dmg can't evenntouch outlaws, or outlaws cleave. Outlaw is unkillable too. Never a viable kill target

[tardy spruce]

wow

good to know

[stoic spruce]

That is not true

Cleave part yes

[fallen scaffold]

I mean it is

Look at represnetation

Wow arena logs numbers

[stoic spruce]

Oh god here we go

[fallen scaffold]

On the damage profile/numbers

[stoic spruce]

Rep does not equal strength

[fallen scaffold]

Outlaw is easily considered the best melee spec in game right now

Besides dh

[jolly sierra]

are u new here guys?

[fallen scaffold]

Its just hard

[stoic spruce]

It's not only because of its damage, it also has insane control.

[fallen scaffold]

And unforgiving

Correct, it owns

[stoic spruce]

Unholy does more damage than dh. Where's its rep?

[fallen scaffold]

Wut?

Missing the trees for the forest

[tardy spruce]

outlaw has same control as any other rogue spec, no?

[fallen scaffold]

More

[jolly sierra]

sub has more

[stoic spruce]

More

Actually sub

[tribal badger]

little less then sub

[stoic spruce]

Yeah

[tribal badger]

both have more then sin

[tardy spruce]

dam, tons of various answers lol

[fallen scaffold]

U get vanish and all your cool downs back fast as fuck, so tanky

[stoic spruce]

Rip sin

[tribal badger]

but sub has absurd amounts of cc so

having almost as much as sub

puts u pretty high up on the totem pole

[fallen scaffold]

Almost as much as sub but way bigger dmg and uptime

[tribal badger]

bigger sustain

less burst

but not rlly cd reliant yes

[fallen scaffold]

^

And its just cool af. Axes and maces with a dagger and pistol

[tardy spruce]

i always hated outlaw until the recent build change, with the BtE spam

[stoic spruce]

The general consensus has been the opposite funnily enough

I can't stand crackshot

[fallen scaffold]

I like outlaw cause it feels like survival

Grappling hook is bis

[tardy spruce]

dam, i love crackshot, finally giving outlaw a burst window

[fallen scaffold]

Outlaw forces you to think a lot more imo

Rotation wise

Very punishing for pressing wrong buttons or wrong order of buttons

[tardy spruce]

outlaw isn't an easy spec, took me a long time to finally start doing dmg in keys

specially KIR build

[stoic spruce]

There are much better ways to give outlaw burst windows than pigeonholing it into shadowdance/sub windows

[tardy spruce]

btw do you guys ever use KIR build in pvp ?

[stoic spruce]

God no

[fallen scaffold]

Def not

[tardy spruce]

😦

[stoic spruce]

That's for the birds lol

[tribal badger]

kir is way too heavily punished for downtime and doesnt have reliable damage in crackshots if you arent maintaining your AR/RtB loops

[stoic spruce]

You can but why would you?

[tribal badger]

HO can survive AR falling off/CC on you because it always has ambush to lean back on during goes

[stoic spruce]

Yeah

I can't wait for trickster

[tribal badger]

i think itll probably get fully reworked

pressing feint on cd in pve aint it

the pve community is pretty up in arms about it

[stoic spruce]

I wish we could sabotage them the way they sabotage us

[tribal badger]

personally i think its also problematic because its unrealistic

[stoic spruce]

Because it probably will

[tribal badger]

they wont allow outlaw to maintain 100% uptime on feint with feint being as strong as it is

either theyll nerf feint DR, or theyll nerf feint cdr

to compensate

[stoic spruce]

Tbf, my favorite thing is the parry

[tardy spruce]

what's trickster

[stoic spruce]

All other stuff is whatever

[tribal badger]

the hero tree they revealed for us

[stoic spruce]

Hero talent tree

[tardy spruce]

ah

what do u like about it

[stoic spruce]

My feint uptime is already very high and immunes parries

Idr exact details but essentially die by the sword would be useless

[tribal badger]

theres also a pretty high chance they make it so it doesnt bypass defensive parries

[stoic spruce]

Theoretically

[tribal badger]

yea

they wont let it make warriors only basic defensive useless

xd

that part is 100% nerfed in pvp

[stoic spruce]

Idk with the way blizz does things

I could see it being an oversight for the first couple of seasons

[tribal badger]

but the biggest flaw with the tree is outlaw can currently maintain 100% feint uptime

the tree makes it so it would be a dps gain to do so

that is impossible

feint is too strong

so either the tree gets changed, or feint gets nerfed for outlaw

the second outcome is not very nice

so id prefer the tree gets changed

[stoic spruce]

Idk

They were pretty clear about feint being an important part of trickster.

[tribal badger]

sure just like they were pretty clear about PI being an important part of oracle

but oracle is getting scrapped and completely reworked

because the priest community reed

i dont think any of these trees are set in stone

thats why they are revealing them so early

before early alpha even

before the last patch of the expac

[stoic spruce]

Pi has been controversial since its inception and its a buff you put on someone else. It's not really the same thing.

[tribal badger]

well the principle is the trees are designed around a core theme and that theme is locked in

clearly its not as theyve already said they are redoing one tree

because everyone hated it so much

so i wouldnt assume any of the themes of these trees are locked in

realz already said he understands the tree has some serious issues anyway

so id expect to see some big changes

hopefully the feint stuff fully moved into a side node that just makes it less of a dps loss to press feint

[stoic spruce]

Fan of knives but it's pistols

Hire me blizz

[hexed pollen]

only posting cuz too much outlaw colors

just kingsbane them correctly and gtg

like right before they bubble or use dispersion....

[stoic spruce]

Only posting because RAHHHH OUAW 4EVER

[fallen scaffold]

good to have sub macros anyone?

[fallen scaffold]

does my shadowmeld stealth macro need to be setup like my vanish one? #showtooltip Vanish
/stopattack
/castsequence [combat] Vanish; Stealth

i feel like #showtooltip Shadowmeld
/cast Shadowmeld
/stopattack
/cast !Stealth doesnt rly work in combat

[boreal shale]

vanish doesn't need a macro, that macro does nothing

[fallen scaffold]

oh fosho

so is this shadowmeld one right then

[boreal shale]

the meld macro is good but meld doesn't just give you stealth when someone is hitting you

contrary to some forum hunter's belief

[fallen scaffold]

i know

but if theyre not

thatd put me in stealth

ye?

[boreal shale]

if there's no DOT on you yes

[fallen scaffold]

is this the correct burst macro for sub? #showtooltip Symbols of Death
/cast Symbols of Death
/use 13
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Shadow Dance

[boreal shale]

i wouldn't recommend macroing any 2 buttons together except cb + st

and maybe badge + dance

i use badge + thistle + dance but also have a separate button for thistle

[fallen scaffold]

murlok is showing cold blood not bein gusde

being used

[boreal shale]

if you use it then macro them

if not then just have separate buttons

[fallen scaffold]

when is black powder used?

just as like a filler during sustain when dr's are up and burst is down?

[waxen meteor]

black powder? i guess never

[boreal shale]

i don't even have it on my bars

i guess you can use it as a desperate button if you can't catch a .1% hp ranged but other than that kinda 0 use

[radiant glen]

u can use it once to maybe proc the bug if u want

[proven kayak]

I really wanna sub again to play outlaw in solo shuffle but wait times must be 25mins+

[boreal shale]

you wanna pay 15 bucks a month to get run over by dhs who can't wipe their own asses?

[proven kayak]

I have a dh aswell but I hate playing anything but rogue

[tawny kestrel]

rogue is rly good into dh tho, so it’s kinda fine

[boreal shale]

yeah in 2s it's kinda fine, but you can't really do much in 3s against dh comps

plus it's fucking boring to play into dh every game and they do the same thing where they just sit on the healer

[proven kayak]

Isn’t rogue almost always good cus dh? Sup raz

[tawny kestrel]

yes you can

[tawny kestrel]

sup

[boreal shale]

what do you do against dhs?

usually something like dh war/lock would just sit on my healer or the other dps and i can't do anything about it

even with disarm and gouges they would just die on the 3-4th go, can't really go dh either cz they don't die

[surreal barn]

They die

Spread bleeds and peel for your healer

[boreal shale]

asking as subt i don't push with assa

i disarm and gouge into essence break and metamorph, am i missing something?

[surreal barn]

Disarm after vengeful retreat

Or it just removes it

[tawny kestrel]

ofc you can hit dh a bit in stuns

this channel is always filled with weird information and massive amounts of copium

[stoic spruce]

Dh dies in stun, they have no out besides trinket

[boreal shale]

i lost most of the games i went dh, just stating what i've experienced

they always end up having something at the end of a stun chain and survived off that

i'm just asking for tips, not coping 1 bit but thanks for the "just hit the dh in stuns"

[stoic spruce]

Anytime

[old brook]

any particular comps in mind? theyre great to just cc and peel but not always the case and can be decent go targets depending on what they're running. do you have a rdruid you only need to provide opportunities for them to cleanly root/cyclone with stun/gouge? or more like disc priest where all they have is fear really, and so you dont wanna blind due to dr? tough to give overall tips since it really boils down to the minutia

[boreal shale]

i mainly play subt + hpriest + x, usually mage/lock

as rmp the DHs feel way more killable but with anything else we usually just go the other dps

[old brook]

i feel the same, but they really are always decent hard swaps into a full kidney when possible. make sure burst is lined up properly or you may as well just continue kiting/peeling/resetting. i think the best revenge for their massive dmg output is keeping them cc chained to high heaven when they pop anything. it's not always obvious ofc with their low cc mobility but they *can *be susceptible to waddling. punish them with roots often and their god-tier damage means shit for all. full kidneys only when youre countering something (not whimsically just cause stun dr down), otherwise i like to save stun dr to cheap into their 5 sec coolddown (jk) blur

they play well into dampen of course because their high sustain allows people to get whittled down quickly, but if youre peeling well, the well-timed hard burst will also take advantage of dampen. just gotta be patient and line it up, which is easier said than done, i know.

[boreal shale]

would you kidney their offensive just to peel off damage?

i've thought of that but it kinda doesn't sound attractive just because of dr

[old brook]

unless you think you can 90-0 them, yes, save stun for peeling. not a bad rule of thumb. you can always burst while peeling and its better to do so at the same time than need to peel but have DR issues cause you tried to burst and now theyre free to pop off

again, their strength lies in their massive passive damage. shut it down and you control the flow of the game. there's a reason people say rogues play well into DH (and not just cause "they die in stun")

[boreal shale]

how do you manage stun DR when you go the DH though

triple stun then wait for dr, kidney on their offensive then wait for dr for next go?

or just go off the kidney?

[old brook]

if theyre popping offensives - stun
if you have high dmg lined up, burst into it.
if not, dont hesitate to simply stay in peel/defensive mode. whether that looks like cheaps into the stun DR to continue peeling their cd or a gouge/disarm/kite chain into repositioning/changing target/resetting.

if theyre not popping offensives, why stun? save the DR for when it's more efficient to use.

its a big part of why giving overall advice is tough, there's a lot to consider. what CDs have they used, what is coming back? what cross cc and dr is going on, how are your teammate's and their teammate's cd? what combination of pressure do you have? can you chain smoke or not, chain duel or not? is positioning awful and needs to be reevaluated?

"water can flow or it can crash" 🤓

[boreal shale]

thanks, that makes a lot of sense

[echo canyon]

quick question: when I craft an item for pvp meaning that I used a pvp token for it can I later on recraft it to upgrade it to a higher ilvl in pve

[boreal shale]

seems like i'm playing too passive between goes and just gotta send it more

[old brook]

yup

and you wont need another trophy, no

[echo canyon]

ok great, because I intend to craft the pve ring and I would be happy if I could later upgrade it

[sick wasp]

if u play with a healer just dot and run,if the DH overextends punish him with/step-ks-bomb,odds are he will die

a good way to cheese a DH trinket is to cc on essence break

they will trinket and mongol

most dog specc for pvp in wow history

[waxen meteor]

actually have you put both pve and pvp token on a craft?

i never tried

so sth normally 486 but becomes 489 in pvp

[waxen meteor]

In most cases go off kidney if you tripple cheap on main.

i think it's also great to main kidney then use last seconds of dance to side cheap, i honestly feel it's better

[waxen meteor]

i think no matter how hard we try, we are still passive out of dance...

there's no dmg and used bunch of energy for nothing

[echo canyon]

what's the game plan against a caster cleave btw?