pvp

[tribal badger]

literally takes like 10X as long for a single honor level now

[sick wasp]

how it became harder

[tribal badger]

takes more to fill up the bar

sources of it are smaller

[surreal barn]

Yep

[tribal badger]

because its actual honor now

[surreal barn]

And here we are lol

[jolly sierra]

like BTE is saying

[sick wasp]

thats not that harder my man

[jolly sierra]

it went merged

[sick wasp]

honor comes by killing

the honor system was revamped to get more honor

[tribal badger]

ok you get 5 honor for killing someone

[sick wasp]

by just doing quests

[tribal badger]

it takes 1000 to level up

how many kills do you need

for an honor level

[sick wasp]

.....

plz stop

[tribal badger]

consider a single pvp WQ gave u like 50-70% of a level in legion

[jolly sierra]

in my progress it needed like emmmm

4500 or so

for a level

[tribal badger]

so to be clear, honor was not used to purchase pvp gear in legion

[jolly sierra]

or 8000 dont recall well need to check

[tribal badger]

i cant remember the exact system

but because of this sources of honor all gave like, 10X the "honor" we get now

[sick wasp]

ye thats not difficult at all

[jolly sierra]

no, u didnt purchase in legion

[tribal badger]

because it was just for levels

[sick wasp]

u bascily had to do quets and daily rewards

[jolly sierra]

in shadowlands u did

[tribal badger]

so like imagine the honor u get for winning an RBG

u got that from a single pvp wq that took 5 minutes in legion

and u could do 4-5 of those a day

per character

[sick wasp]

and the honor u get from rated pvp

is waay too low

besides rbgs

which is massive

[tribal badger]

in bfa they brought honor back as a currency

[jolly sierra]

dude almost no one has the mount, dont think is that easy

[tribal badger]

and reduced the gains you get from it all by like 2-3X

[jolly sierra]

literal ppl need years to grind all that level

[sick wasp]

bro i have 4 times ur hks

and i have 5 times less honor

[tribal badger]

yes

[sick wasp]

tell me how harder honor system is

[jolly sierra]

ye u missed legion

loo

l

[sick wasp]

i didnt

[tribal badger]

i literally just explained it

i mean did u do pvp WQ in legion?

[sick wasp]

but anyway

just dont assume stuff that arent

like ok

[tribal badger]

u didnt get honor from killing people

like, u did, but barely anything

[jolly sierra]

killing ppl is something

[tribal badger]

a pvp WQ (5 minutes to clear) gave the honor of killing like 100 people

[jolly sierra]

doing WQ is another one

[sick wasp]

its honorable klill,which means it gives honor per kill

[jolly sierra]

WQ were the key

[sick wasp]

its simple

[tribal badger]

yes

im comparing it

if u farmed pvp WQ for honor levels for ur mogs/mounts you will be a way higher honor level then anyone who just got it from pvp

is what we are saying

and each character u did it on got combined so that also jumps you way ahead

you could legit get 2-3 honor level a day just doing a full set of pvp WQ

and those were unique to each character

[sick wasp]

that applies today as well

u can easily farm 2-3 honor lvls

[tribal badger]

so if you did it on 5 toons, you'd have 5 toons at honor level lets say, 200-300

and then in bfa they combined it all

[jolly sierra]

not anymore if is per day

[tribal badger]

sure maybe if you pvp'd for like 6-7 hours

[sick wasp]

why i just did yday

[jolly sierra]

the level bar is way higher

[tribal badger]

im talking 20 minutes a day

in addition to doing ur pvp stuff

[sick wasp]

ye thats how pvp sessions ar emy man

[tribal badger]

yes

but it takes u 6-7 hours

to do what we were doing in 20 minutes a day

back in legion

[jolly sierra]

i can tell you how much honor asks to get a honor ding

[tribal badger]

so 20 minutes a day x5 toons

then all combined

[sick wasp]

it doesnt rly matter im not jealous or anything tis wahtever

its just meaningless

but anyway ye

cheers

[jolly sierra]

for a horse? ye

[sick wasp]

i mean and that

its not like u get anything special

[tribal badger]

idk if im missing any of the horses

[sick wasp]

like glorious tyranny or anything

[tribal badger]

they r neat mounts tho

i think i have 4 or 5 of them

not sure how many skins there are in the honor levels

[jolly sierra]

ye, the ilussions are per rating

[sick wasp]

😉

[jolly sierra]

i have 2, looking for the third one for later

ah no, i have 3

true lol

[sick wasp]

no offence btw,love all things pvp and all

[jolly sierra]

shadowflame is my favorite one by far

glad they gave that ilussion for pvpers as exclusive

[tribal badger]

shame the elite weapon mogs r so 😴 this season

[jolly sierra]

ye lol

disliked the s2 ones too

if were obsidian

then why tf were white

REEEEEEEEEE

[tribal badger]

seriously we havent had good elite weapons since s1 its sad

[jolly sierra]

yep

F

[tribal badger]

i feel like every dagger we get is comically wide

[jolly sierra]

i wonder how rewards will look in S1 past 1k8

[jolly sierra]

last dagger i liked a lot was the WOD one from challenge mode

was fucking beautiful

[jolly sierra]

happened the inverse with 2h weps tho

the elite 2h axe from s1 was smaller than i expected

[nova viper]

u have in the past glad title?

[jolly sierra]

nope

that is for r1 xd

[lapis plank]

Howdy! I am new to PvP Outlaw (pvp in general). Is there a current build that's similar to the HO outlaw? Or does the HO Outlaw build transfer well to PvP?

[nova viper]

when r1?

[nova viper]

check murlock.io

[lapis plank]

Will do - thanks for the tip!

[tribal badger]

the outlaw pvp build is an HO build

kir is not rlly good in pvp

[jolly sierra]

when i start to work w NASA

the only thing ill have now is a breakfast

[old dome]

Shall i get 2 tier set pieces or 1h dagger on sub? no tier atm

have hellbloom oh.

[jolly sierra]

always get first the 1h dagger as conquest item

[old dome]

Ah okay dagger over 2 tier set pieces! 🙂

Thanks alot!

[jolly sierra]

u welcome

[plucky sage]

why is everyone playing outlaw in pvp these days? did outlaw get a buff or sub get nerfed?

[tribal badger]

sub got nerfed

[steel scarab]

Assassination got massively nerfed too

[nova viper]

sub have -10% dmg on 1 spell so all metaslave 1800 hardstack players go outlaw

[wispy dust]

Tried Outlaw today. Works pretty well at low level SS but I cannot commit to so much APM and buff tracking it’s just beyond my ability to do that and enjoy the game.

[steel scarab]

-10% damage and +15% HP to all classes in a meta where everyone is absolutely immortal unless the healer is either completely CC'ed or braindead

Immensely nerfed bursty classes like assassination and subtlety

And rewarded brainless consistent damage faceroll classes

[nova viper]

like always

[jolly sierra]

outlaw went brrrrr w buffs

[languid ravine]

we have Crackshot now, just the best thing happen to Outlaw ever

except for when dreadblades was cool maybe

[languid ravine]

Except for Frost DK because reasons

its probably not possible to balance a class that does almost exclusively direct damage though I get it

you d have to start like looking at one chart or something, not in California mate

[plucky sage]

hahaha as it should be

[plucky sage]

i see, makes sense

well I am an outlaw pve nerd, so was thinking to go sub for pvp

[plucky sage]

I agree, I wouldn't want to be tracking RTB and shit during pvp. Sub just feels more like a classic rogue hit and run and wait for CDs for big boorst

[tribal badger]

smol borst but ye

thats its style

you'll still get kills on unprepared people before they can act n such as sub which doesnt rlly happen as law

but it does better in the sustain damage meta while still have plenty of setup

additionally its nice that you can keep your "burst" (crackshot) going while step kicking/running over to gouge/kidney healer with PS since BtE is ranged

[gleaming pawn]

Outlaw is good at overwhelming low CR healers in SS, so there’s that

[willow valley]

help

nobody wants me in lfg

😭

everyone declines me

[jolly sierra]

go shuffle

[gleaming pawn]

Welcome to LFG, there is always someone better geared, higher CR, etc

[plucky sage]

indeed yeah, the gun changes a lot tbh with crackshot procs

[jolly sierra]

or the 2k xp guy asking for a glad

[waxen coyote]

what do you guys think, dh or outlaw better for SS?

[willow valley]

i hate that

[plucky sage]

Well DH has ridiculous damage and good setup with imprison into fear combo so probably the best for solo carrying SS imo

[waxen coyote]

what's the pvp rotation as outlaw?

[waxen meteor]

do we have a monthly person asking pvp rotation here..

[waxen coyote]

isn't that chat intended for that?

[tribal badger]

well theres outlaw rotation guides in #outlaw-faq and the general pve rotation is still the proper prio for doing damage

obviously you need to recontectualize things for pvp since you arent generally just going to be doing ur dps rotation into targets

[waxen coyote]

im just wondering if is there any good way to make use of crackshot

[tribal badger]

but theres no like, specific burst sequences like sub that differ between pve/pvp

well crackshot is how you do damage

and the good way to make use of it is to spam as many 5+ CP btes as possible during the window

[waxen coyote]

the window you mean shadow dance?

[tribal badger]

or vanish

or the opener yes

[waxen coyote]

so as outlaw on arenas i should use vanish more offensively?

[tribal badger]

generally yes

but it depends on things, using it defensivly when you are being trained/will die is obviously still a good play

it just costs you more damage then it would have in prior seasons

but also important to remember that vanish is like a 20-40s cd for outlaw so you can do it quite often if ur not sitting in cc

[waxen coyote]

thanks mate

[jolly sierra]

SS was make for lone wolves

if u cant find someone, then its ur option lol

[gleaming pawn]

At least once a day, as if the outlaw faq doesn’t exist

[tribal badger]

i mean tbf i doubt many players think "let me look at a pve rotation guide to learn this spec in pvp"

outlaw does play very similarly to the pve rotation just with the added elements of tracking drs/using cc effectively

[gleaming pawn]

There’s no spec in the game where their damage prio list is massively different between pve and pvp

[tribal badger]

well id say sub plays very different between pve and pvp :p

but sub is also a spec where ur damage between goes rarely has any relevance since wod

so it might be the most unique in that

its probably the furthest along the spectrum of difference

[gleaming pawn]

Eh, your damage during your burst window is still the same between the two modes

But yeah, sub is special like that. For better or worse

[stoic spruce]

Unholy

And its the only spec

[willow valley]

yeah, but randoms are sometimes too stupid

u say "go warrior" and they start hitting the healer

[jolly sierra]

toptarget is the solution

XD

[willow valley]

[halcyon timber]

Cumulative nerfs mind you that have added up to them switching.

[plucky sage]

Is anyone going to update #pvp-faq sometime? All the builds are from pre 10.2

Has NoTrickz left or something?

[jolly sierra]

he barely has time to mod right now

[plucky sage]

Ah I see, well since this is a community resource afterall, can't the better pvp'ers get together and work on updating stuff? I of course don't expect him to do all the work

What's happening? He had a child IRL or something?

[jolly sierra]

dunno

but if u what do u want rn?

[plucky sage]

Oh it's find i'm using murlok.io etc but I just like seeing all the options and the things like why pick this build or that build for x or y reason

[waxen meteor]

killed a fury warrior who just JAJAJAJAJAJA to make fun of 'little rogues' after a win against double rogue

then i JAJAJAJAJA warriro

[plucky sage]

hehe

satisfying

[waxen meteor]

and talked to him to quit

and he quit

[plucky sage]

warriors are such a mongo class and they talk the most shit

[waxen meteor]

so easy to manipulate such dumb people...

then he started to pm me

saying he is so much better player than me blablabla

and asked me to duel

i was like yeah come here if you dare

then he went something like he is a better person because he can speak my native language

because spanish is much harder than english

[willow valley]

how do u kill a warrior as outlaw?

[waxen meteor]

i was like

lol

seriously that's like a 5 years old

then i just commented his age and blocke dhim

A quote, 'im better than u since i can speak and write in your native language and u cant'

'spanish are way more difficult than english'

it's my sin lobby with surv + sub + fury

surv + sub is like....

holy lobby

[jolly sierra]

ME WARRIOR

ME SMASH

PUNY ROGUE MOCKED ME ME LEFT

[waxen meteor]

You summerized well lol

[jolly sierra]

a guy from ragnaros or quel thalas is probably very bad

that is the reason ppl rejects them so much for +

[waxen meteor]

yeah he is exactly rom ragnaros

[jolly sierra]

see

XD

[waxen meteor]

and after i commented his age

like you talking like a 5 years old

his response was, no, 5 yo doesn't speak two languages......

i was like.............

[jolly sierra]

ye spanish is hard

but that guy

[waxen meteor]

IQ issue

[jolly sierra]

is a dumbass

period

[waxen meteor]

anyway it's a sub+surv lobby

and today first lobby, i talked to dh, please send stun to non kill target

let's go ele

he talked back very nicely

and agreed

then his first global is stun on ele

[jolly sierra]

then?

bruh

[waxen meteor]

i am not sure if it's becasue i opened sap healer, cs side dps, he assumed me forgetting about our plan

but i really didn't want to play after seeing first global

after surv lobby, nice

[willow valley]

how can i kill a warrior as outlaw?

[jolly sierra]

disarm in colossus smash

[willow valley]

they always kill me :c

[jolly sierra]

feint the bladestorm

[willow valley]

i dont use disarm

[jolly sierra]

bruh

[willow valley]

[willow valley]

i have those pvp talents

[jolly sierra]

outlaw

[willow valley]

no smok bom?

[jolly sierra]

seems like

[willow valley]

i wont quit using smok bom uwu

[jolly sierra]

eksdee

w warr in ur case would go

w the coins/brawler/disarm

does restless blades reduce cloak cd?

[willow valley]

nuh uh

[willow valley]

i dont like coins

isnt that good

[jolly sierra]

dude

[willow valley]

im changing smoke for brawler

[jolly sierra]

the coins are haste for ALL ur party

including urself

[willow valley]

nah

veil better

[jolly sierra]

xd

[willow valley]

[jolly sierra]

[boreal shale]

i run brawler always, cloak/take your cut into melee caster, cloak/disarm into melee cleave or rogue, take your cut/bomb into double caster

disarm into melee always in 2s

[willow valley]

bomb is incredibly good for 2v and 3v

[jolly sierra]

hear him more. he is playing as outlaw

im just going assa

kek

[willow valley]

kek

[boreal shale]

you don't get as much value from a bomb as outlaw vs subt

[willow valley]

ye i know, but i dont want to change my talents every 5 min

[willow valley]

i just realized that

so i changed smoke for brawler

i can get rid of smok, but not from veil

nuh uh

[jolly sierra]

the coins

take the coins

[boreal shale]

you pretty much have 2 flex slots for situational talents, just gonna make the games easier

[willow valley]

NUH UH

no coins

broke but happy

[waxen meteor]

i don't know how to play this game anymore

[willow valley]

[waxen meteor]

another round

me leap me die

[jolly sierra]

u just had a bad lobby

always happens dood

[waxen meteor]

i don't understand

he leaped to middle of surv/dk/rsham, and didn't fear

when everyone else still riding

for sure i am not expecting to sap

[jolly sierra]

yeah its a warr

dont expect too much

[waxen meteor]

already daed before i reached there

[jolly sierra]

the reason we mock them here is because their mindset

literal embrace the smash

good warriors are rare af

[willow valley]

zug zug

[jolly sierra]

and w that i say

SENTIENT

[gleaming pawn]

Damnit Panda, quit gaslighting the newbs into taking dead talents

[jolly sierra]

wait

are really the coins a dead talent?

right, ill leave this to u since now

will just talk as assa kek

[gleaming pawn]

Enduring Brawler is bad

[languid ravine]

which one even is the coins?

[gleaming pawn]

take your cut is a good choice to replace it

(The coins)

[languid ravine]

take your cut is that the 15% haste? imo its secretly the best PvP Talent

[gleaming pawn]

Yep that one

[languid ravine]

like seriously strong

[boreal shale]

why is it bad? everyone is running it

[gleaming pawn]

Everyone is running it because they don’t read, and it was mandatory before the rework

It doesn’t do much anymore, and is not worth it

[jolly sierra]

even if people is still picking it?

damn

[gleaming pawn]

There is almost a 0 change between having it and not

Because HO changed so much in the rework

[languid ravine]

15% chance to deal 30k bonus damage and get 1-3 combo points and 3 charges of multi pistol shot?

sounds good to me

[gleaming pawn]

Your chance to proc is already extremely high, and you get more out of the other talents

[jolly sierra]

right this is a yellow rog moment, let them discuss this

https://tenor.com/view/hasta-la-proxima-float-fly-gif-14857954

[languid ravine]

remember every combo point means more Evasion more BtE more Adrenaline Rush which means more combo points

and when you are in that crackshot window and you dont get double slash

kekge

another 150k damage in the nether

[gleaming pawn]

Have you actually tried playing without it, or are you feelcrafting like pvpers are want to do

[languid ravine]

you havent even given a single number and accuse me of feelcraft?

okay boomer

[gleaming pawn]

I’m at work and can’t hit a dummy, but I’ve tested extensively and it’s no longer a needed talent

Welnith also agrees with me, but you do you

[jolly sierra]

we can have an end for this discussion doods

@spring bough can you confirm us what is seijuro talking about pls?

[hidden dome]

Just had a DH rush my monk heal with 15% HP and die instantly to touch

[coral kettle]

Hahahah yoooooo the dream

[jolly sierra]

despair run

[hidden dome]

I wish they added a "totems and other important summons"-HP bar toggle

default HP Bars suck

[surreal barn]

Plater has an addon that does it

[hidden dome]

last time I used Plater it just kept crashing

that was back in BfA or start of SL I think

Alternatively Blizz could just class 90% of summons as minor

And important totems as "major"

No reason why we need a HP bar for imps, demon dogs, ghouls, wall totems, the 100 BM summons and all the trash army of the dead summons

You never target any of them anyway.

Besides using them to charge/Shadow Step to. But that can be bound to a mouseover macro

[spring bough]

is that enduring brawler?

i kicked using that from like 2300 until i hit elite and had no idea i wasnt using it. i picked up bomb for it instead

pretty sure brawler ONLY works on sinister and it doesnt work on ambush even though HO says it should

and we use sinister a minimal amount of times if even at all so i dont even think we really need brawler anymore

its like how triple threat says sinister and with HO its supposed to work on ambush too but it doesnt work on it at all

just play some games with it and without it and you wont even notice u gave up brawler

[jolly sierra]

im not the outlaw here

but i believe u

[willow valley]

huh

[jolly sierra]

those 2 guys had an arguing cuz one said its a dead talent and the other one

[willow valley]

so i was right

smok bom is better

[jolly sierra]

a pickable talent

[willow valley]

smoooook bom da best

[spring bough]

just feel it out but i havent notice a single change using it versus not using it

with bomb now ive got some clutch kills using it lol

[willow valley]

bomb is still good

and useful, specially when u want to cut the healing

[hidden dome]

Just got 1.8 on DH. Took me half the game I needed for shaman heal before that.
Now warlock or Paladin next

[gleaming pawn]

It’s almost like Blackguard was wrong 🙂

[languid ravine]

thats cringe if it doesnt work on ambush

[jolly sierra]

dunno im a red rogue

im just staring

XD

[languid ravine]

yep gonna drop brawler tomorrow

but that still doesnt explain why all the top rogues use it

[spring bough]

dont know the answer to that maybe just a holdover from season 2 when it was a BIS pvp talent

i noticed 0 difference using it versus not. pretty sure it doesnt work on ambush, just sinister. and we barely press sinister anymore. added utility is nice

[hidden dome]

That would explain a lot

if brawler doesn't work on ambush

[languid ravine]

I do agree though that its definitely not worth taking over bomb

[willow valley]

SMOK BOM

[gleaming pawn]

The top rogues keep it because it’s been locked in since SL for Outlaw, and I would guess, aren’t taking a step back and experimenting/seeing if the talent is still worth it post rework

But opening up our choices to different utility picks is huge. Could even take tricks like Trill to give your dps partner a straight boost

[jolly sierra]

were u gaslighted by that talent?

[gleaming pawn]

At the start of the season, but as I pushed more keys in m+ and noticed my proc rates were largely the same between arena/m+, I started experimenting and testing

I didn’t mention it to Welnith until I was sure I wasn’t crazy though

[coral kettle]

It's probably worth mentioning that besides the hangover of brawler from previous seasons, a lot of the top rogues are relatively new outlaws (e.g., pikaboo). I mean even if you watched him in AWC he played like he was a sub still

[hidden dome]

I have come to notice that my most hated 2s combos this season is always just "druid heal + something"

I know druid heals blows in 3s, but I wish they would get a ton of 2s specific nerfs to just make them less broken

But since Blizz doesn't balance around 2s, they are King of the ladder each season, every season

[coral kettle]

Resto druid is savage in 2s

[stoic spruce]

even when its bad, its still the best healer in 2s

[hidden dome]

yep

cyclone just needs to go on dr with more abilities

[gleaming pawn]

Druid is tied with R. Sham for best 3s healer this season lol

They are always strong, just takes a great healer to play optimally

Because of HoTs, they mitigate one of the biggest weaknesses of healers, having to be in LoS to heal

[hidden dome]

To be fair, playing resto druid efficiently takes a ton of skill. But man it sucks to play against a good one

[gleaming pawn]

Yep a good Resto Druid is cancer to fight

[steel scarab]

Or like, maybe cyclone shouldn't make the target immune to everything and be nondispellable by any ability in the entire game lol

Do you guys remember when Divine Shield had no counterplay? That lasted 1 year

Meanwhile, Cyclone, 15 years later:

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-laugh-idk-jim-carrey-dumb-and-dumber-gif-4818063

I mean I guess Mass Dispel removes it now. But it can just be immediately reapplied

[languid ravine]

no you dont get it you cant just put a 20 second cooldown on it because in Warcraft 3 it didnt have a cooldown either and everyone loved that game

[steel scarab]

@languid ravine well, if it was truly like wc3, a Druid would have to upgrade their Tree of Ages to a Tree of Eternity and research their Druid magic power before they can use Cyclone in an Arena

If they had to do this every arena match, I'd be okay with instant cast, 0 cooldown, unbreakable, reapplyable Cyclone that lasts as long as Blind

[languid ravine]

or have it cost a third of your manapool like in Warcraft 3

[steel scarab]

LOL YES

[languid ravine]

and then you have fly back to base and empty your moonwells

[steel scarab]

Delete diminishing returns, make each spell cost 1/4 the mana user's pool

Let's see some 20 second games boys

Tired of this 9 minute arena match garbage

[mortal jay]

So proud of myself. Deleted Facebook :). Deleted instagram months ago. Discord is officially my only online presence. Lol

[mortal jay]

not sure if deleting my presence and losing interest in things is ideal, but it feels right

[compact river]

What spec gives you all the most trouble? I’m listening to a BM whine about rogues and I’m like “👀👀👀👀”

[radiant glen]

demo is one of the rougher ones imo

[willow valley]

warrior

i hate warriors 😭

[serene sable]

hey, do you have any recommended wa/plater profiles for nameplates?

[radiant glen]

if you want something fast to just get started, KUI is fairly clean and easy to set up
if you want something super minimalistic, Fearmydear has a plater profile on his twitch iirc
if you want a lot of information, Chanimal's setup (not 100% sure its plater/was, maybe nameplatebuffs addon) is very detailed

those are my personal recommendations

but anything not too cluttered is fine for pvp

[serene sable]

thank you for your valuable answer

[sick wasp]

for pvp u would need bigdebuffs and some custom WA trackers for cc

a good and simple wa for cds poping up again is doomcooldownpulse

u shouldnt exaggerate with plater etc,keep it as simple as possible

[buoyant crow]

Hey guys i was trying to make the switch from assa to outlaw and I'm struggling to do good damage. I played outlaw in s1 shadowlands and it felt good but now it feels super clunky

Is there another build for outlaw other than the stealth BTE spamming

[serene sable]

Is one of the specializations significantly stronger now?

[steel scarab]

Yes, Outlaw

[jolly sierra]

outlaw is the strongest rn

[waxen meteor]

Yeah sin dmg is just alright and survival doesn’t exist

[serene sable]

why this ugly spec XD

[buoyant crow]

I do about half the damage on outlaw as I do on assa in a match lol

Something wrong

[pliant spoke]

How are assass rogues going 0 haste for pvp? Im so energy starved

[willow valley]

sub is still good tho

but yeah, everyone is playing outlaw (me included)

[willow valley]

maybe ur doing something wrong

but in arenas its normal

specially if u eat all the cc

like me

🥺

everyone focus their cc on outlaws, maybe cuz we have a great survivability and awesome damage

[jolly sierra]

emmm

u need to dot more targets

and u use the tea

[jolly sierra]

tuning luck

[willow valley]

but u have a lot of fun playing outlaw

its like being a pirate

[waxen meteor]

hmm

that doesn't sound very fun

[pliant spoke]

bad design

[willow valley]

for me it is

but maybe not for u when i steal ur gold

raahhhhh

[jolly sierra]

nah, its fine, it was like this since a lot of time

[gleaming pawn]

Haste has never really done much of anything for our energy regen. With a ton of it you can increase the energy per tick by 1 if I remember correctly, and thus haste has never really helped in that regard

Haste was for making your dots tick faster, because rogue has a hard set gcd of 1.0 seconds (except when in AR for Outlaw)

Retail assa has been all about that multidotting for energy regen for many many expacs

[halcyon timber]

Hunger for blood was dumb, venomous wounds isn’t

[halcyon timber]

Outlaw covers more than pirates though. Edwin Vancleef was the man.
Bandits / highwaymen/ scoundrels/ puckpockets etc

[waxen meteor]

Vancleef mog is good

i forgot which event gave it to us

for 50 times

[surreal barn]

It’s just shadowcraft set iirc

[willow valley]

ye

but pistol shot

the hook

BtE

all looks like a pirate, but outlaw also covers al those things u mentioned cuz is still a rogue

[jolly sierra]

got the madoka magica xmog

thinking in using it now lol

[pliant spoke]

Only recently. Before we had haste. snice the rework its full vers/mastery

[jolly sierra]

nono i say about the energy

[pliant spoke]

didnt say it was? venomous wounds has been around for a quite a while. still not enough. shouldnt have to aoe spam for energy regen

[pliant spoke]

ah gotcha

[gleaming pawn]

Haste didn’t effect our energy

You’ve always had to multi dot

[jolly sierra]

yep

2+ as min to have decent regen

[mortal jay]

gettin there 🙂 up to 76% mastery (while in pvp)

[surreal barn]

Word of the wise it gets kinda scary at 28% versa

I enjoy the flying by the seat of my pants playstyle but it will make you question your sanity

(And your healers)

[mortal jay]

at 31 percent vers (in pvp)

[pliant spoke]

haste did effect energy regen

[jolly sierra]

i would be scared like that ngl

[gleaming pawn]

It takes 10% haste to increase our energy regen by 1 additional energy per tick. No, using haste on our gear has never been about energy regen. It has only ever about making our dots tick faster

[steel scarab]

@gleaming pawn Man, I never knew the energy regen component was so awful

The tooltips really need to say what the stats do, and how much of a stat you need to increase it.

The tooltips should also have the Diminishing Returns information for each stat

[gleaming pawn]

Yep stat tooltips leave much to be desired

[tribal badger]

Keep in mind haste also scales ur dot tick rate which increases energy gen from venomous wounds

[languid ravine]

Does shadowmeld no longer dodge The Hunt? cringe

[tribal badger]

Same way it Increasing ur attack speed for law increases energy gen via fatal flourish

It doesnt make haste great but haste scales ur energy in more ways then just the 10% per 1 energy/s

[gleaming pawn]

True but in the case this guy was talking, they were not referring to the tick rate of the dots interacting with venomous wounds, else they would have said that. But it also takes a lot of haste to drastically increase the tick rates of our dots for that interaction. Which is why haste has been a generally meh stat for rogues for many tiers

[tribal badger]

I mean it doesn't take that much it scales linearly. You hit the cap of energy u can spend pretty quickly in aoe anyway

So there wouldn't be much point in haste

But in pvp ur not generally dotting 5 targets

[gleaming pawn]

25% haste to go from 5 ticks to 6, on a 15 second example dot

So you’d need 15% haste from gear, plus the haste talent in rogue tree that I can’t remember right now. That’s a lot of haste

Which is why you just multi dot

[coral kettle]

You could just party with an outlaw rogue for take your cut

[tribal badger]

It doesnt take full thresholds to get additional ticks

Haste scales dots linearly

You get a partial at the end if you have not enough haste for a full tick

It still procs things that proc off ticks

You'll get an additional tick with 1% haste :p

[coral kettle]

Itll just be a tick for 6% of the dmg or something, Yeah?

Err, 4%

[tribal badger]

Yea

But you'll still get the energy

[steel scarab]

@gleaming pawn How much haste is needed to increase attack speed by 1%?

[gleaming pawn]

You are correct, but none of this is still what the guy was arguing as his point

[tribal badger]

1% haste for 1% attack speed

[gleaming pawn]

^^

[tribal badger]

(2% if you have the outlaw talent that scales snd)

But u don't play that in pvp so

[surreal barn]

Gonna be some sneaky bugs in the next patch if no ptr 😂

Rextroy gonna sneak back in to retail

[proud folio]

Feels like there’s no point in pressing BTE outside of stealth in PvP for risk of messing up your goes

Should I just remove it from my non stealth bars?

[tribal badger]

Well as long as u only press it when vanish is >45s cd or dance is >15s cd it won't mess up ur goes

But probably not a huge deal to not press it at all out of stealth

[stoic spruce]

You get it back in 7 seconds so why not press it?

[tribal badger]

ye i mean thats what i do

[surreal barn]

You can actually create a tellmewhen for it to glow with those conditions up

[willow valley]

i literally spam bte in and out of stealth

if u manage right ur cp

u have bte every 10 sec

so u can use it 3 or 4 times after u use dance or vanish

i just stop using it like 10 sec before i will push

so i have all the cd

[tribal badger]

well its generally tough to use it more then once between vanishes

but if ur getting cc'd alot u can

[willow valley]

well

i dont spam vanish a lot to use bte

[tribal badger]

ah yea i use it nearly on cd unless i might need it defensivly

so im vanishing every 20-30s

[willow valley]

honestly i prefer to have vanish every 30 sec to go out of combat or having an extra cheapshot

[tribal badger]

basically every stun dr

[willow valley]

ye

well, im not doing it every 30 sec

but im trying haha

[tribal badger]

its big for damage anyway

but damage isnt always the way to win obviously

[willow valley]

ye

[tribal badger]

i tend to go a bit too pve in my shuffles especially vs melee cleaves

gotta break 130k dps

show the dh up

huh

[serene sable]

Can we control Roll the Bones?

😄

[tribal badger]

like what rolls you get?

no

[serene sable]

I noticed that sometimes I get one buff and sometimes I get three, what does it depend on?

[gilded gulch]

read tierset

and loaded dice

[tribal badger]

make sure u dont let ur rolls expire

and every buff will be 2 buff minimum

with LD you will have 3 buff minimum

[gilded gulch]

i kinda cringe watching streamers ar and roll insta

instead of roll then ar

[tribal badger]

yea i mean

[gilded gulch]

watching echo get taken out by sub ww hpriest was funny though

[gleaming pawn]

Will be funny to see if Jelly from The Move starts using WW. At least he might see some play then

[lyric reef]

anyone know a good outlaw rogue pvp guide

[gilded gulch]

has he ever played monk

[lyric reef]

also its it worth stunning the whole team with vanish? or do we focus on just kt and do dmg with ambush

[gleaming pawn]

Not that I know of, but Thug is so rarely good and Shadow Play has to be really really good for The Move to use it so Jelly just never gets tourney time

[gilded gulch]

well yeah they're mostly a otp team

[gleaming pawn]

WW is zug zug more than hunter or lock so I think it would slot in well. And Pika is at his heart a setup/play maker Sub Rogue so seeing them run WW/Sub next AWC would be fun

[gilded gulch]

personally i see kalvish's team playing it more than any other

mostly because nick can actually multiclass

[gleaming pawn]

Yeah true

[gilded gulch]

But idk its not an easy comp for the average team to execute

[jolly sierra]

dude played a SS

a guy with an elite title at a 1k9 lobby and a multiglad

/clap

ended 1-6

literal he did this in all the fkn matches

[waxen meteor]

I got a 60 and a 06 in my ret lobby today lol

[jolly sierra]

XD

gotta try again

if i lose i left for today

literal got flamed by both the hpal healer and the lock

but i dont read the w windows after SS so

[waxen meteor]

My 06 lobby were all close game

So only lock flamed me

But they were all till last moment

R5 everyone was lower than 10% even

[jolly sierra]

damn

dunno dude, lock is disgusting af as aff

how tf can scratch his asshole and do all that dmg

[waxen meteor]

Just hold your intreupt and stun well I guess

[potent pivot]

a lot of it is learn as you go, i'd suggest checking out iceyveins and any recent youtube vids you can find to learn more of the basic side of things

[jolly sierra]

damage was already done, tried spellwarding

pointless

[waxen meteor]

Problems against affl is if you get fished you are screwd

[jolly sierra]

ye

too much fakecast

[waxen meteor]

And I honestly don’t even care if they face cast fear

I think that’s one key advantage of ret against lock

You fear I sanc

[jolly sierra]

hope sanc works in cc

sadly it doesnt so i need to guess

sometimes they even doesnt target u

to fear

[waxen meteor]

I think they mostly don’t cast fear on us

[jolly sierra]

nope lol

but lets see what happens now

hope isnt another elite lock

lock round 1

[waxen meteor]

His name spoke it all lol

[jolly sierra]

ye

kek

got a match w a blood dk

wtf

[waxen meteor]

Some blood DK has good dmg

Maybe they went full dmg build or sth

[jolly sierra]

did awful dmg

half the entire lobby

indeed was trolling

enough for today

[languid ravine]

blitz bg diarrhea, Day 12395:
Take third base, steal fourth base from enemy healer, help hunter take enemy home base ina clutch, then go to lumber and take the 7th base

2 min later lose

okay it was 5

[jolly sierra]

bruh

[left vessel]

Hi guyz, is acrobatic strikes also +3 yards in pvp ? (or is it reduced)

[jolly sierra]

indeed it gives

[tribal badger]

its the same

[left vessel]

ok thx guyz 👍

[spring bough]

I got a first today. Lock whisper me after solo. “Expect a ban. I reported you for boting. You vanished every coil I sent” LMFAOOO

[jolly sierra]

XD

[spring bough]

Told him to get good at lock if I somehow did that 😂

[jolly sierra]

ask him to top as lock

like u saw in my details

lol

[willow valley]

nuh uh

its the total definition of rng

what u can control is having perma buffs or not

(a WA can help u control that)

[green oyster]

any tips against warlock teams as Sub Frost mage? they are near unkillable

[jolly sierra]

cc the lock and go for the other guy tho

double dps can kill healers tho

[green oyster]

i am very new to sub and it's been proving the hardest thing i have ever done in wow lol

[willow valley]

lol

true

[green oyster]

warlocks simply do not die, and if the heasler survives our go they can dot you and you can't do anything for like 1m

[willow valley]

what i recommend is using focus macros

its very useful for cceing multiple targets

[jolly sierra]

stun the lock then poly him

and go for the healer

[green oyster]

what if the go fails

[willow valley]

reset

[green oyster]

i am realising that backstabbing people is useless

[willow valley]

u said u where playing with mage right?

[green oyster]

yes, frost

i mean, he is not that good either, but more used to pvp than me

[willow valley]

then the mage needs to use the cube thing

and u need to vanish

use cloak + vanish if needed

and wait for DR

[green oyster]

so if played corectly we should be able to kill a healer in 2-3 goes?

[willow valley]

nuh uh

no healer

CC healer, and then dps

[waxen meteor]

Against demo lock your go almost always fail

[green oyster]

no i mean, you said that we should aim to kill healers before?

[willow valley]

well, u can try killin the healer, but if the healer is good it wont work

[green oyster]

yeah

[waxen meteor]

Because he can send stun to you even during stun

[jolly sierra]

sub win condition

[willow valley]

i said that?

[jolly sierra]

is by force trinket

[willow valley]

srry

[waxen meteor]

You don’t win demo lock easily with RM

[willow valley]

didnt mean that

[jolly sierra]

if u fail you hide and reset

[waxen meteor]

Basically you suppose to lose against demo healer

[green oyster]

hmm, maybe i misunderstood, mb 😄

[willow valley]

np

[jolly sierra]

go again, then try

[waxen meteor]

You can’t reset against demo lock too

[willow valley]

but killing healer its not an option

[jolly sierra]

emm

[waxen meteor]

Pet chasing you forever

[jolly sierra]

try bringing the felguard

to the pillar

they can insta ress demons every 3m

but

is with every lock

or just against demo?

[green oyster]

i thought that going for pets was a thing from wotlk when soul link was still a thing?

[green oyster]

well, i seem to face mostly demos

but overall i struggle against locks a lot

[jolly sierra]

locks in general everyone but destro are indeed tankier

[green oyster]

of course i am really bad, so not saying that they are overpowered but it seems borderline impossible

sometimes if the healer dies it still takes like 40s to kill the lock

[jolly sierra]

but in 2s healers are a very decent target with double dps

[willow valley]

rlly?

[jolly sierra]

nah, even in pvp now u kill pets

ive seen even hunters doing turtle to ress it

surv and MM use them for mortal strike

[jolly sierra]

ofc

[green oyster]

same applies to lock pets? It's just weird to think to do that as RM

[jolly sierra]

imagine 2 dps over you

while the dps is doing nothing w ccs

[willow valley]

well

if u cc him yeah

it might work

[jolly sierra]

ofc is cceing

u are a rog

lol

[willow valley]

lol

but

rogue with what?

which comp is better?

[jolly sierra]

dunno i dont play 2s anymore and just can talk as assa

but sub is better w mages

assa needs a healer

[willow valley]

rogue mage on tooooop

[jolly sierra]

outlaw dunno, i think they still depends in healing too

[willow valley]

mmmhh

not that much

[jolly sierra]

lock instaress it

in 3m cd

[willow valley]

with evasion its pretty good

[jolly sierra]

and they need the felguard

they can spent their time ressing it too

[green oyster]

yeah but then our plan revolves around killing the pet twice?

[jolly sierra]

tbh, demo is hard af

as double dps

as tarny said

that stun is fatal

[green oyster]

and it feels like the ladder is full of them

[jolly sierra]

for openers

cc the lock and go healer

if he tyrant just run away

i need to see axe cd

[green oyster]

playing against some of these comps makes me wanna go back to do mythic plus

[willow valley]

[waxen meteor]

Every spec of lock

Killing pet is useless

[jolly sierra]

fuck the stun has 30s cd

[jolly sierra]

are u sure?

the felguard is a very big chunk of dps

[waxen meteor]

Also problem is we don’t really capable of killing it…

Yeah it’s huge part of their dmg

[jolly sierra]

it has the mortal strike too

enables the stun

[waxen meteor]

But it’s not sth you kill in 15 seconds..

[green oyster]

and they can just retreat it and heal it i guess

[waxen meteor]

And lock heals it with 10% per tik easily and can be enhanced even

[jolly sierra]

no if u stun it

[waxen meteor]

Hmm am not sure if I would kidney it

[jolly sierra]

cheap shot?

[waxen meteor]

Then you even dance on pet…

For sin, it’s not bad against demo

You don’t bother too much by peel at kidney

Like sub

And all pets give you a huge CT

That’s with healer 3s of course

I am not sure how to deal with a good demo lock healer as RM

[jolly sierra]

pet has like 500k hp baseline

[waxen meteor]

Yeah for sub you basically not able to kill that…

[jolly sierra]

the other thing u can do

is run on tyrant

[waxen meteor]

You have to basically spend a go to kill it

[jolly sierra]

beat the obelisk

[waxen meteor]

But then they instant another…

[jolly sierra]

2 tyrants?

[waxen meteor]

No I mean guard

[jolly sierra]

ah ye

every 2m

it can just stun on cast

[waxen meteor]

Tyrant is now more like a buffer

Unlike previous seasons

[jolly sierra]

indeed

[waxen meteor]

The dog is bigger source now

Or whatever that creature is

[jolly sierra]

that bile shit?

they have it every 20s

nono

that is the felstalkers

u talk about the vilefiend?

this little one?

[waxen meteor]

Yeah

A Zerg or dog whatever you call it

[jolly sierra]

fucking zergling

yeah is strong af

the problem is than is fire school

so usually u get cut in shadow bolts then u can throw this little one anyways

or u can bait the zergling and throw fears

hahaha

[waxen meteor]

Yeah demo lock is very good

And you can fish randomly too

[jolly sierra]

so

nerf demo

kek

[surreal barn]

buff assa

[surreal barn]

Work my second rogue up to 2020 just to beef it with a 1-5 😆

Still getting use to the aoe build. Feels weird

[steel scarab]

Make Mutilate great again

[waxen meteor]

I am enjoying it more than bone now

[gleaming pawn]

Mutilate was never great, but making envenom great again would be nice

[waxen meteor]

Although i still feel weak as fuck

[surreal barn]

I’m ending lobbies as top damage

Doesn’t mean I’m winning em when that happens though

It’s really tough when you keep queuing into DH spriest

[halcyon timber]

Demo can summon a second one too. Dismantle helps with that but yeah effin zoo classes

[halcyon timber]

Haven’t seen a pit fiend in a while either but they can do 100k hits too

[jolly sierra]

every 2 minutes

tbh wont waste a disarm on felguard if the cd is higher than the stun itself

demos rn are using obelisk, tyrant, vilefiend, dreadstalkers and double felguard

that is their arsenal

[halcyon timber]

They have a summon to just call one out no? Like not the instant revive one but something else?

[jolly sierra]

(can confirm cuz i have a demo too, updated)

[halcyon timber]

Ex: 2 of them running around WWEstyle tag team body slamming people

[jolly sierra]

they can call a second one, but ofc, dr is consumed if stun was done before

[halcyon timber]

Yeh

[steel scarab]

@gleaming pawn Mutilate was definitely great in TBC

Lol

[surreal barn]

I ran creeping venom once and I swear the pets were just all just crawling so slow

It’s hard to pick over other talents most of the time though

I think the aoe envenom applied it, don’t run it anymore

[jolly sierra]

show me that chadnox build

can test it tho

zoo classes can be delayed by a lot with crippling

problem is demo has that disgusting imps

[halcyon timber]

Little gremlins everywhere

Kicking you in the wiener

[surreal barn]

BMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQSkkIJEAAAAAASLJSLJAAAAAAgSIEiIJpFBJRSkkEJRp1iECA

There’s gouge that must be taken but I’m not going to redo it on the mobile talent calculator

Move Rushed Setup there it was a misclick on my part

[jolly sierra]

thank you dude, lemme see how can i interpretate it according to his clip

[surreal barn]

He keeps the momentum going pretty often with shadowmeld which I don’t have on this alt

Really overwhelms them with indiscriminate carnage

Fan of knives is less energy than mutilate so it seems like that’s your main builder

[jolly sierra]

seems like i can use this well then

i use fok very often to points and to bypass stuff like blur

u can even use it in inmunities for combo points XD

gotta test when servers are back

[jolly sierra]

pulled this in a skirmish

gotta keep testing

[gleaming pawn]

there's new Sin tech?

[jolly sierra]

chadnox build

from some days ago

[gleaming pawn]

ah must have missed it

[mortal jay]

Mutilate is back burner ability. Lol. I can go a whole round of solo, never press muti, and top the meters

Not ideal of course , but the point is, if you play assass like it’s a zug war spec, you’re gonna feel crippled.

I will switch targets and garrote, fan of knives twice, before I prioritize muti

[jolly sierra]

im still testing this

need a 3s skirmish

[waxen meteor]

what you testing

[mortal jay]

I used to try to “blow up”. Someone.

[jolly sierra]

shadenox aoe cleave build for solo shuffle

looks very interesting

its focused in FoK and i just noticed shadow dance does interact with carnage

the damage spread is insane

[waxen meteor]

oh yeah i have been using that

it's good

[mortal jay]

Now. I refuse to press deathmark k or kingsbane unless I have garrote and rupture running on three targets. Focusing on spread dots has helped me

Doesn’t matter who my dps partner calls as target. Bush, I’m killing everybody. At once. You get somebody’s trinket and I’ll smoke and delete them.

I like smoke bomb when I do it right

[jolly sierra]

assa is very good for cleave damage, indeed

w this the burst isnt restricted just to KB or DM

[mortal jay]

Even if I screw it up and hit a dr kidney. The panicked, slow motion hopping away to try to get out of the smoke is funny to watch

[jolly sierra]

XD

[mortal jay]

I had never cast fan of knives in an arena till o watched shade more closely

Fok, carnage, tempest, shiv. It’s all valuables I realized

Shade is purdy good at bleedy poisony Killy stuff

[languid ravine]

someone share talent string plsh

[jolly sierra]

BMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQSkkIJEAAAAAASLJSLJAAAAAAgSIEiIJpFBJRSkkEJRp1iECA

zeiss shared this some time ago

another skirmish

[sick wasp]

yup can confirm,its fun and quite pumpy

[jolly sierra]

seems like ill use this for next tuning

im currently resting after the last one lol

[sick wasp]

its basicly very useful when u play vs teams that stack up or melee cleaves

press ur buttons,KB on main target and cleave off the rest

its immense pressure

[jolly sierra]

yeah, perfect for shuffle

imo u need min 1 melee in the other team to make it work

cuz he will come to u

if u are going for the ranged

lol

[sick wasp]

its also good into shadowcleave and mage/lock

but niche

coz lock can port anytime

and mage blink

but alot of juice in the build

[jolly sierra]

yep

def would practise for now

need to get used to CT

its giving very good results against monkeys

[sick wasp]

they never expect it

no way

[jolly sierra]

nah

the puny rogue is bad af

no way he hits like a truck

with a dot spec

[sick wasp]

[jolly sierra]

im done w testing i have enough samples

this shit is indeed very good

[waxen meteor]

yeah i think bone can be gone

[jolly sierra]

i dare my former self

but im seriously considering CT to be very good with shadow dance

imo that is the key here

[sick wasp]

[sharp sierra]

Does anyone know how to get rid of those small dr overlaps on gladius?

[harsh kiln]

could it be bigdebuffs?

[willow valley]

anyone knows a good profile for nameplate auras?

nevermind

tell me a good addon for nameplates pls

i just want an addon that shows me the DR and the debuffs/cc on the nameplates 😭

[surreal barn]

Diminish and nameplatecooldown

[willow valley]

and those addons shows all the info in the nameplates?

i mean these

[surreal barn]

Pretty sure, I’m not at home

Yes those.

[willow valley]

k

good

thx, im going to try it

[surreal barn]

Make sure to clean your ui after it’s gonna look bulky in combat

You can turn off a lot of unnecessary cds

[willow valley]

k

[surreal barn]

That new v day toy should turn the non party members into sludges/slimes instead of spinning hearts

Makes more sense ya?

[waxen meteor]

@chrome schooner hey I watched one of your latest video and noticed that you don’t seem to enable slice and dice a lot

Could be just a Ui thingy

[halcyon timber]

Diminish takes a few min to set up (placement of where you want stuff mostly) but displays diminishing returns for all cc you want in any content. (Separate aura “box”) it doesn’t attach to nameplates afaik.

You can also use Tell Me When to do that.(similar function and placement)

[buoyant crow]

Is it the video with the DKs? He has it in most of the matches but isn't a priority. I also don't see it binded so maybe he's got a stealth bind or something lol curious...

[waxen meteor]

yeah

i mean i can understand our cps are limited for sin, and used in multiple ruptures and additional CTs