pvp

[jolly sierra]

got 4-2 in my first match w demo

now will wait inflation until end season

KEK

[surreal barn]

Is the play to finish placements or still be in them?

[last jasper]

So you didn’t drop jumping in lock?

[jolly sierra]

i dropped sitting

[jolly sierra]

to stuck inflaition?

[surreal barn]

Yep

[jolly sierra]

i think u need a good streak

and then rest

so ur MMR is already inflated

then will raise more and more

for SS in end season w lock i noticed i was at 1k6 mmr baseline cuz i never played w her in that

then i decided to go again this season

win 4-2 (ideal)

and then inflate

im thinking in keep ret at 2k

and sit

same for any char which reaches that

[surreal barn]

If my luck sticks I will leave Zeiss at 2050 inflation and play something else for a little, getting destroyed on my alt lol

[waxen meteor]

It feels there’s no inflation for a few weeks already

[lucid citrus]

Any outlaw mains out there, is these stats good? what do I nee to change more or do i not need to change anything?

[last jasper]

Good. Mine is almost 70. Gonna raise destro death ration a bit 😂

[jolly sierra]

if u get 2k2 MMR or so w zeiss and u win 3-3 its gg

[jolly sierra]

nice

try getting some gear and start, try winning 3

[steel scarab]

Average queue wait time: 16 minutes
Time in queue: 26 minutes

[last jasper]

Yea. I have like 6k conq on my rogue.

And I’m not going to switch gear for outlaw

[jolly sierra]

go assa

K E K

[jolly sierra]

but btw

transfer the honor

and medals

do the trophy of strife weekly ASAP before reset

and buy the remaining trophies

so u have fast epics

[last jasper]

Sorry mate. Im not sure I would play assa even if both outlaw and sub were trash 😄

dunno why

[last jasper]

Yea, I might do that.

Ok, imma cosplay some merek

Or not. Wanted to upload a few my games for u to judge. But the vids are too big

[jolly sierra]

damn

[jolly sierra]

go ahead i have time

also, can help u w the trophies tho

[last jasper]

can't upload them here

[jolly sierra]

but u need to hurry up

[jolly sierra]

DM

[last jasper]

same

sec, i'll check where I can upload them

[jolly sierra]

k

[last jasper]

it only google shit like vimeo or yt

[jolly sierra]

private yt vid can work too tho

[last jasper]

yea, I thought that too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHY3eXee98w&ab_channel=JustEgoist

lmao

its 360

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPPG0bv6npc&ab_channel=JustEgoist

Dont have many, cuz sometimes nvidia bugs out and it records just a black screen with sound. dunno why

😄

[jolly sierra]

here the trinketing and the blind imo

the yellow homies can tell u about the rotation in that case idk

[last jasper]

yea, panic buttons

[jolly sierra]

F

[last jasper]

lmao

[coral kettle]

What weapons do you have mogged there??

[last jasper]

mage tower

or u mean stats?

[coral kettle]

Damn. I want that mother fucker

The orange slashes look rad

But alas, not available 😦

[last jasper]

yea, they are the reason I leveled rogue back in legion

[coral kettle]

Appearantly all rapiers have that effect, good to know !

[last jasper]

what effect?

[jolly sierra]

second one seems like just the panic trink

but was good btw, full pressured

[steel scarab]

Man assassination feels bad with the HP buff change

finally lost my first match

Feels bad

[last jasper]

Was stupid with 1 sec left. But just wabted to go ham on him while healer was sitting in kidney

And literally hitting a guy with full fear 😂

[coral kettle]

Appearantly all rapiers have that effect, good to know !

[jolly sierra]

XD

saw that

[last jasper]

Pretty sure it’s a skill effect and not wep

[last jasper]

I hit him once and “fuck I broke it. Okay need more for kidney”. Need to adapt to the fear change

[jolly sierra]

XD

[last jasper]

Idk what to do with my tunnel vision. It getting worse with outlaw

[jolly sierra]

eeeehhh

dunno

[steel scarab]

Oh

Assassination is not bad

I was just doing it wrong post-changes

two 1-6 games in a row, changed everything I was doing, went 6-0

[narrow tangle]

it's okay

all rogue specs are okay atm imo

[coral kettle]

What did you change, out of curiosity sake? Assa seems legit but never really clicked with me

[inner tartan]

high cr outlaw seem to fall of cuz it much more bursty killing but that just might be me ( high cr as 1950 -2100 )

[remote apex]

can i turn conquest gear into tier at the catalyst?

[stoic spruce]

yes

[nova viper]

seeeeeexooooooo

[jolly sierra]

SEXOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[hidden dome]

Man the DPS at 1.6 are literally brain dead in solo shuffle

They play worse than 1.4 players in 2s

No wonder no one wants to heal solo shuffle if you have to play with people like that

My first round of solo shuffle and a mage blocked with ray of hope on him, a ret bubbled and a hunter turtled

Either they never seen a Holypriest before or they just don't look at buffs

But thinking about it, if they want heals to play Solo Shuffle just give a Conquest box as a reward (once you can buy them)
I would put with all of that if the conquest payout was high enough.

But I am not playing Solo Shuffle for the 50 extra conquest or whatever that reward is

[last jasper]

No one asking

[nova viper]

cry more

or just be better

grind

if u are good player u have only 2 randoms in your team

enemy have 3 randoms

[hidden dome]

Why would I bother?

I can get the rewards 10 times as fast in 2s

I already have the gear and sets on my heal, I was just looking for a way to farm conquest for my alts and thought I give it a try

I usually don't interact with SS at all, but I always here whining about how long queues are for DPS

[last jasper]

1600 heals wont make qs any faster

[hidden dome]

At what rating are heals in demand then?

Genuine question

Because if it is higher than 1.6 then heals will have to go through 1.6 to get there

And if the experience at 1.6 is that bad, then they won't bother with that

[shy moat]

what spec are most people playing in 3s rn?
also the comp too pls

[hidden dome]

Druid Heal and Havoc DH are the most played specs above 2.2 in 3s right now

would have to look to find comps

[shy moat]

oof i mean what rogue specs king

[hidden dome]

Oh

That is reasonable given the discord we are in I guess

You can play all 3 rogue specs, but outlaw is best if the top of the leaderboards are anything to go by

[shy moat]

yea is what im seeing but im playing sub rn with my rmp

idk if outlaw would work or not in rmp but i havent played in a min

[last jasper]

Lmao, just level my lock to lvl 70. and find out it still has a vault since sl. lol

[hidden dome]

Outlaw burst can work well in RMP but the lack of a second vanish hurts him a little

Also no shadow duel hurts

[shy moat]

yea im just getting frustrated learning rogue and starting ladder mid season

feels like i need alot of gear/mastery rn but at least i got 2 set and embelishments

[hidden dome]

The hp buffs also made sub a lot worse

Since you play for cheesy kills with sub and people having more HP really hurts that playstyle.

[last jasper]

Would work perfectly.

U just need a macro to cancel ur blades

[willow valley]

is outlaw good?

maybe im going to try it

[mortal jay]

outlaw is good if you are good

outlaw is good if you are skilled at maintaining multiple buffs on yourself, executing abilities exactly when they are buffed . and if you are a bit adhd

[willow valley]

i just tried it

is good

but i dont like it

sub is better for me

[hidden dome]

Outlaw is really punishing if you are inexperienced with it.
Because Outlaw goes Uptime -> Lower Cooldowns -> Better Uptime -> Even lower cooldowns.

That means Outlaw is easy on low ratings where everyone is just doing PvE zugzug, hard once people actually start ccing you on burst and then broken once you get to the level where people know how to maximize uptime

[mortal jay]

i cant even play sub properly.. give me my zug zug knuckle dragger spec

namely assas 🙂

[willow valley]

ye i know, i tried it and its not bad, u can do pretty good things if u know how to manage your buffs, like u said

but im more of a sub guy

i love sub hehe

[echo abyss]

So as someone new to rogue (sub), do you generally rupture alot or even at all? in SS and in 2s playing with healer

Im just gonna assume u dont rly use it when playing with a mage? And mostly during ur burst downtime?

[minor cape]

shuffle - yes
2s - depends on situation
2s with mage - not really

in shuff you do it in downtime

in 2s with healer same but sometimes you just leave after burst lol

[echo abyss]

ye makes sense

ty 😉

[minor cape]

it doesnt mean you should never rupture in 2s with mage! you might

[steel scarab]

@coral kettle I had some success using Fan of Knives as a builder instead of mutilate. But you have to be careful about breaking CC with it, and also, my mastery is amazingly low (30%) compared to the top meta rogues (80%) so I just think I'm kinda doomed until I change a lot of gear

I have the full 489 PvP set, but a lot of the pieces I have are suboptimal

I also tried some games without Kingsbane. I figured Kingsbane hits so weak at 30% mastery that maybe I should go with SBS and Indiscriminate Carnage, but I miss having Kingsbane.

The buffs to HP combined with everyone suddenly having super ideal gear while I have like 12% haste is really killing me. I'd never lost a game up to this point and this week I lost my first 3 solo shuffles, one was 1-5

I definitely felt the uncapped conquest as a massive disadvantage, I had been absolutely stomping every game this season. And then, the second conquest got uncapped, all the sweaty people who grinded arena all week suddenly have WAY better gear than I do. I didn't do arena til Sunday so I guess I was just queueing into a wall of people who grinded their optimal gear.

Feels real bad. Gotta put more time in I guess, can't outplay people anymore, the gear gap is just too big

Literally feels like night and day compared to last week. Absolutely crazy.

[lucid citrus]

You having 30% mastery as an assa in pvp sounds like you’re not gearing correctly

[last jasper]

“Second conquest got uncapped all ppl suddenly got way better gear”.
Suddenly. After 3 months.

Jesus 😂

[waxen meteor]

30% is beyond low…

[steel scarab]

@last jasper I mean. How do you explain being able to go 14-0 in solo shuffle matches and then just start losing?

Seems like a pretty dramatic change all of a sudden, wouldn't you say? Lol

@last jasper why the attitude? I only play a few games a week, just to get 1 option in my vault. I'm 40 years old, dude. I have a family, I can't grind games like you young people can.

So, yes, my gear is super suboptimal, and now that conquest is uncapped, people who have the free time to grind games and optimize their gear have a massive advantage over people like me. Cope with it however you want, but it's a fact

@waxen meteor I'm definitely gonna work on getting the mastery up, but it'll take time.

[jolly sierra]

my mastery is like in the nice number

but def would like more

[last jasper]

So you started more than 3 month later and now u are crying about "gear disadvantage"? I'm surprised you were able to survive that long

[steel scarab]

@last jasper are you saying I'm not at a gear disadvantage when conquest is uncapped and I've only been playing one day a week?

@jolly sierra I'm definitely gonna try to get more mastery, it's just gonna take a while cuz I don't have time to play a ton of games

[jolly sierra]

or you can just have a plan to get stuff faster

like getting gear from trophies of strife or doing battleground blitz with two weekly quests

doing a skirmish and stuff like that

[steel scarab]

@jolly sierra that is a good idea, how do I do that?

Oh, I didn't even realize skirmish gave conquest, are the queues for skirmish fast?

[jolly sierra]

in ur concept idk

[steel scarab]

If skirmish queues are short I don't mind slamming those

[jolly sierra]

are 5 mins fast?

[steel scarab]

5 minute queues are fast

SS queues are 30 minutes usually

[jolly sierra]

go to malicia and accept the battleground blitz quest and then to the adventure journal and accept the weekly brawl quest by scrolling into the first page where the raid finder Q and quest starts are

or just join a brawl and ask to have that last quest shared

[steel scarab]

Okay, very cool, I will try that

[lucid citrus]

@steel scarab
You should also look up murlok.io

Great website to look at what are the high rated players are gearing since you have been lost at gearing

[steel scarab]

I also have a crapload of bloody tokens, but not a lot of the yellow orb currency

[pale storm]

You do realise the game changed a lot on Tuesday when HP pools got buffed, games more dampener now, so that’s probably why your win/loss changed. Longer games, not as busrtsy, means games are different, have to score kills differently etc it’s definitely not a huge change in gear

[steel scarab]

@lucid citrus I've been using murlok.io, I've known from the start I needed Mastery, I just have gotten terrible luck with the vault

@pale storm you could be right, but I think it's probably a combination of gear and the game changing due to HP change

[pale storm]

Yes, possibly, I believe HP changes definitely is the biggest reason though

[steel scarab]

You're probably right. My Kingsbanes are hitting SO bad now relative to HP (again, due to my terrible mastery)

It's crazy how bad of a stat haste is in PvP. I have like 13% or something and it just does nothing lol

I don't notice any real difference in energy regen at all, and auto attack is such a small part of PvP damage that it's just a total waste

[jolly sierra]

i have like double ur mastery

mastery is fat

when u gear into it

[lucid citrus]

Why did you get haste?

[steel scarab]

Because that's what I got in my vault, and a 489 with haste on it was better than a 450 PvE piece with mastery on it

[jolly sierra]

did u gemmed into haste?

boom tough question

[steel scarab]

I had gems with +70 mastery / +30 versatility and rings with +mastery, and then to do some testing I tried gemming into haste to see if it's as bad as everyone says

Turns out, it is awful

[lucid citrus]

If you’re using Murlok.io
No one is going towards haste so you’re trolling yourself lol

Gem into mastery

Switch those haste gear into mast gear pieces from wpvp and even if the ilvl is not 489, it is still better to have mast to do more damage than going into haste for energy regen which we don’t need since we have 300 energy and thistle tea..

[jolly sierra]

also a little necro

james my father with like 54 yo is able to speed run a super mario world and know every fucking shortcut in that game

dont think age is an excuse

git gud

[steel scarab]

@jolly sierra in Super Mario World you're playing against the computer. You can memorize everything. Also in SMW, there isn't ever an update patch that suddenly invalidates the way you've been playing and learning

So, that's a massive false equivalence

SMW is a great game though

@lucid citrus Should I do the +88 straight mastery gems since my mastery is so horrible, or stick to mastery/versatility or mastery/crit?

[lucid citrus]

Stick to Mastery/Versatility

You don’t need crit for assa

Wear an honor versa/mast ring instead of the versa/haste ring

[steel scarab]

@jolly sierra I mean literally, just to revisit the ridiculous thing you said about "git good," SMW came out in like 1990. Even if your father played it casually for an hour a week, he's had 33 years x 52 weeks = 1,716 hours to get good at a game that hasn't changed a bit since 1990.

I'm sure if I had 1,716 hours to spend gearing and playing Arena in a single patch I'd be amazing lol

@lucid citrus Okay, yes, I'll get rid of the vers haste ring. Maybe I'll use a spark to craft that. We need 1 spark for every craft, right? I think I have 3 sparks

[lucid citrus]

Yes craft a verse/mast ring

Also change your embellishment on your helm to the one that gives you more mast when you’re above 90% health

[steel scarab]

Yes, my helm is trash. I crafted the garbage 1% damage one really early in the season. It's awful

So that would be 2 crafted sparks, what should I use the third on, do you think?

[lucid citrus]

You don’t need a spark to recraft the helm

Just need the materials and find someone to recraft on your server

You should be crafting two rings with versa/mast

[willow valley]

i dont use it when i know i will need to use blind or something like that

cuz rupture breaks blind, and u dont want that

but i also forget about rupture sometimes, i mostly use it against warriors or dk

[steel scarab]

(actually I think I used a gem slot on my helmet so will I lose my gem slot if I crafted the stupid helm that gives 1% damage?)

[restive hemlock]

Blind clears all DoTs on an enemy just so you know

[lucid citrus]

You won’t lose it

[jolly sierra]

excuses, old games had their leaning curve

and im sure zoomers would struggle with some stuff

[jolly sierra]

u know what is ridiculous?

excusing a lot

to have everything in a silver plate

and complaining about stuff and giving wrong advice

when ur entire toolkit and gearing is bad organized

if u were "good" before conquest cap

and now u are not

then gearing itself is not the problem

[steel scarab]

@jolly sierra it's almost like you failed to note the fact that removing the conquest cap made it so now, anyone and everyone with unlimited free time is now perfectly geared, and everyone who doesn't have unlimited free time is now at a disadvantage.

[jolly sierra]

that changes nothing

[steel scarab]

Weird take

[jolly sierra]

u have plenty of time to gear up in this seasn

[steel scarab]

Considering it's literally factual lol

[jolly sierra]

and even play in the end

to get ur desired rating

you are just complaining for nothing

[steel scarab]

Oh, so you're privy to the amount of free time I have in my life?

[jolly sierra]

i barely play too rated

and have better results

so idk

[steel scarab]

How many games of ranked solo shuffle have you played this season?

Let's play a game

And see how ridiculous you're being

How many games have you played?

[jolly sierra]

games?

lemme do the math

[steel scarab]

Divide by 6

[jolly sierra]

26

is that too much?

lol

[steel scarab]

Okay, and

[jolly sierra]

AND?

[steel scarab]

Is that all the arena you've done this season)

?

[jolly sierra]

with that character

yes

[steel scarab]

Okay, so you're playing multiple characters.

Lmao

End of story.

[jolly sierra]

oh boy

to be 40y old

u act like a 16y guy

just complaining

instead finding solutions

ofc u will be hardstuck

if u just complain constantly and gear that bad

instead adapting and getting better

[steel scarab]

How many characters are you playing lol

Let's do this a different way. How many total games of arena have you played this season? Across all characters?

All arena modes

I have one character and I've done like 15 solo shuffle matches.

[jolly sierra]

like 100 matches

of SS

[steel scarab]

So 600 games

[jolly sierra]

yes

[steel scarab]

Compared to my 90

[jolly sierra]

XD

HAHHAHAHAHA

fuck

[steel scarab]

And you feel like, despite having played less than 1/6 the games you've played, I should have the same gear as you?

[jolly sierra]

yes

u should

[steel scarab]

That's mathematically impossible.

[jolly sierra]

90 vs 100 isnt a huge difference

if i play with 4

and u play with just

ONE

JUST ONE CHARACTER

u should be fully geared and optimized

where are your maths now?

[waxen meteor]

Tbh if you are behind in gear at this moment of a season, you are probably just too casual…

You don’t need 400 games to full gear

[steel scarab]

It's possible NOW for me to become optimized, because conquest is uncapped. But I'd have to put in a lot more time to collect the conquest

Time I don't have

[jolly sierra]

lemme guess

u have played

[waxen meteor]

I don’t know about that part james, it’s just 550 per week, regardless of cap or uncap we should have maxed gear a couple of weeks ago

[jolly sierra]

similar to me in my rogue

and most in 2s

as i recall from ur chats

similar spent time

to shuffle

u have played TWICE

the time from my rogue

and have worst gearing than him

[steel scarab]

@waxen meteor well, note that I took a lot of wrong pieces early in the season because I only had 1 choice in my vault. So I grabbed pieces with like, haste on them

Because it was my only vault choice

It was still vastly better than what I had

[jolly sierra]

is time really the problem or just the organization?

[steel scarab]

I mean

[jolly sierra]

hm?

[steel scarab]

I don't think making a flowchart for how to gear in PvP is indictive of PvP skill

[jolly sierra]

i have no one

but i know what stat is the prio

so i float around it

if i need to sacrifice 3 ilvl to get a desired stat i do

[steel scarab]

I understand that, I think I vastly underestimated how important mastery is

[jolly sierra]

instead having a good piece with crappy stat distribution

wanna see my char?

[steel scarab]

I assumed taking high ilev haste + versatility pieces would be better, that apparently is seriously wrong

[jolly sierra]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/character/eu/sanguino/meimei

here u go

[steel scarab]

Its very non intuitive

[jolly sierra]

u have advantage because u just need 2set to play well

so u shove mastery in everything

[steel scarab]

Wait, are we not using 4 set?

Because if not, that is another mistake I made, I am wearing 4 pieces of tier

[jolly sierra]

bruh

well if u are curious check my amount of games

[steel scarab]

I am genuinely asking

[jolly sierra]

and the gearing

no, u dont need 4 to play as god

just the pants and the gloves

[steel scarab]

Jesus 64% mastery

More than twice what I have lol

[jolly sierra]

ye, and i have fewer time than u

doing that

can u see i have not a socket in the head?

[steel scarab]

So basically

I need tons of mastery

[jolly sierra]

its like compulsive gambling

betting at

at mastery

then u go

[steel scarab]

I will collect more mastery, as I said, maybe instead of queueing solo shuffle this week, I will take a week off and just grind unranked skirmish and try to fix my gear

I don't have time to do both

[jolly sierra]

mhmmmm

what about trophy of strife weekly?

have u done it already?

[steel scarab]

What is trophy of strife weekly

[peak agate]

It's the weekly world pvp quest

[steel scarab]

The thing that gives you the yellow orb currency?

[peak agate]

Yes sir

[steel scarab]

I stopped doing it because I figured I didn't need the Hellbloom anymore, since I had full 489 gear

I don't know what the Trophy of Strife is

[peak agate]

It's just so you can purchase the epic hellbound gear

People use those for the secondary stats

I just wait until I can recraft my gear

[steel scarab]

So for each craft, I need a spark, right? I have 3, is there any way to get more sparks?

[last jasper]

lmao

what is strife 😄

[jolly sierra]

u need the hellbloom

if ur gearing is crappy

[last jasper]

I recall royal was explaining with half of this discord what is this 😄

[steel scarab]

I threw away a bunch of hellbloom 😔

[jolly sierra]

go item restoring

[last jasper]

really, how did u make up to 40 years?:D

[jolly sierra]

if is purple

[steel scarab]

Maybe I can get some back from the restore

[peak agate]

You get a spark every week or you can buy an extra one from using vault tokens

[last jasper]

I might get banned for this

[steel scarab]

Yeah they're purple Hellbloom pieces

[last jasper]

but please dont reproduce

[steel scarab]

How do I block this shithead lol

Nevermind I got it

[waxen meteor]

it's probably more lack of exp

[jolly sierra]

OOF

wild take

[waxen meteor]

even just making 2 timewalk dungeon (like 20 mins in total since you have healer acoompany)

you can take socket and finish gear

[steel scarab]

Regarding the socket, do you get more currency if you fill the vault? I noticed some weeks I'd get 2 tokens and some I'd get more, was I imagining that?

[jolly sierra]

are u american?

get the quest now

[waxen meteor]

I took 2 socket early weeks of the season due to bad luck even with all 3 pvp slots unlcoked :((((((

[jolly sierra]

before reset

[steel scarab]

I will try to do that quest tonight after work

[jolly sierra]

cap are 3 slots

[waxen meteor]

but overall we have had quite enough time to max gear this season so far

[steel scarab]

I'm stuck here for 10 more hours

[jolly sierra]

i do very casual shit after 1k8 to get the remaining sockets

like a daily HC and LFR

[waxen meteor]

i didn't play too much pvp this season

[jolly sierra]

that are like 2 hours max

for an entire minimum cap

[steel scarab]

I will definitely do that after work today

[waxen meteor]

i think i would have got 5 chars in pvp by this season at s2 lol

i am actually happy i didn't do that

less time is alright

[steel scarab]

Here's a question: how does it say I have 19 solo shuffle games, with 19 solo shuffle wins?

I definitely lost 3 of them

[peak agate]

I meme my way to 1800 and play alts. So I understand lol. I got to 1800 with a weird stat line but the biggest one is 11% verse.

[waxen meteor]

also i am fairly sure there's no inflation these last few weeks

[waxen meteor]

in wow.com, if you didn't get 06 its a win

1-5 lobby counts as a win in official website

[jolly sierra]

draws counts as wins

[steel scarab]

That is weird

[waxen meteor]

wow.com data is presented in a un-readable way

[jolly sierra]

that is a sin

but can respect ur goal

XD

[steel scarab]

I got to 1750 with a weird stat

But I don't think I can hit 1800

[surreal barn]

I know what you WILL do if you do

[steel scarab]

Blocking this weirdo too

Everyone else, you're being amazing, thank you for the advice

[jolly sierra]

xd

at least u take my advice even after the arguing

that is nice

[steel scarab]

Of course, I am a rational person. And I wasn't trying to yell at you or argue with you, I just wanted to present my point of view so you could understand my issues

[last jasper]

Welcome to the club 😂 @surreal barn

[peak agate]

But it worked 😏. I also play my elemental shaman with like 15% verse with my meme lighting build. Getting close to 1700 and I suck

[jolly sierra]

throwing insults for free tbh would fuck everything here

so i holded my head w that too lol

[jolly sierra]

damn

i have gear optimized for arms warr

but im 1k6 hardstuck

got that and stopped cuz fuck helms

XD

[surreal barn]

In his defense ass feels shit since the health bump

[jolly sierra]

thought the snoozefest would be better for the spec

[surreal barn]

Me too

[jolly sierra]

if their playstyle is slow af

[surreal barn]

Can easily run out of cds with the dampen

[jolly sierra]

oh

[peak agate]

Assassination probably needs a design philosophy change. It's squishy but not really a glass cannon damage kind of spec.

[waxen meteor]

i agree

i feel both sub/sin are worse

sin burst seems quite meme now

[surreal barn]

Like, as you use your last cd all the BMs and locks get their big one every single minute

It’s just different when you can’t seal the deal in time

[jolly sierra]

maybe w the war within we can get better stuff

[waxen meteor]

won't change

[jolly sierra]

that sounds like dnd when u multiclass

[waxen meteor]

it's simple

[jolly sierra]

with mixing specs

[waxen meteor]

dumb people cry for burst

then everybody won't die in burst

then rogue doesn't need to exist

because our entire class is built for burst window

or everybody goes outlaw

[jolly sierra]

if u cry for a fucking burst

[waxen meteor]

but then why not just go war

[surreal barn]

Only reason I stayed this xpac was bc I didn’t have to pve at all. Hopefully that stays the case

[jolly sierra]

when there are worst stuff there

like a fkn enh shaman RNGing a one shot

then idk why are u playing pvp

ppl in pvp whines for shit

checks cc nerfs

[waxen meteor]

in 3s, i feel lots of times our dmg is just not enough to create the pressure

[jolly sierra]

and precog still being active

[waxen meteor]

or in solo

[jolly sierra]

same

[waxen meteor]

sin right now is actually at the edge now

if we have like 5% more dmg

we can create threats each go

and therefore change the game

[surreal barn]

Yep

[waxen meteor]

but when the Gos are like meme

they just suck your dmg up and beat you back right away

then you end up with using defensive cds

3 rounds later, you die

[peak agate]

Then you have defensives that completely eliminate our big CD.

[surreal barn]

Literally won a battle cloaking and getting a restealth

Told team to run away for 30 secs

[waxen meteor]

warlock can just press the shield during stun that is 45 seconds CD and just took deathmark alright

and cast on our face

then we gotta escape

very ironically

[surreal barn]

On the bright side we get to use smoke bomb twice now

[waxen meteor]

pfff

i wish i started sin a bit earlier this season

now i don't enjoy the games

[surreal barn]

Best to get good when it sucks tbh

[waxen meteor]

probably should go outlaw

i don't know

i will swap to outlaw next week for pve

and see how i feel

[surreal barn]

Yeah outlaw is good too

[peak agate]

This goes back to the specs designed philosophy. Do they want us to be squishy glass cannons or slow and methodical killers.

[waxen meteor]

yeah it's basically a warrior

[peak agate]

Right now it's neither

[narrow tangle]

my friend started this season and also playing rogue he wants to hit 1.8k in rss, he wants suggestions and all i have is to say"play better"

[surreal barn]

They want half of both

[waxen meteor]

The point is blizzard doesn't seem to have a baseline they want to keep

they just react based on crying

and suck healer's ass

[peak agate]

True. But the spec needs an actual identity.

[waxen meteor]

and sucked the wrong spot

yeah

[waxen meteor]

exactly

it needs to be a mix of burst teams and slow cook teams

[steel scarab]

Yeah, can confirm. The spec went from feeling pretty solid to awful

In arena

[waxen meteor]

i am completely fine when wars/locks want to do slow cook and slow down the pace

but you can't force rogue to do 3 mins game too

that just means either rogue loses identity completely

or you redesign rogue to be a warrior

then what's the purpose of having these many classes

just dumb

going back to Cata era

when everybody has same skill, just with a difference skin and name

and everybody quited

I think it's extremely cluelss and short sighted for some of these adjustment lately

[peak agate]

I personally think the spec should focus on the poisons and if they don't feel like upping the defensives. They should up our front loaded damage.

[waxen meteor]

it's just an act showing i don't have enough budget and resources, people cry, i adjust, and i will make everyone sort of similar

so they don't cry

it's the easist solution

but just brainless

which is typical americana now anyway

[narrow tangle]

ass is boring outlaw is basically fury with gamble sub is challenge atm

i agree

[waxen meteor]

in the end it always goes back to a business thing

but

it's just too depressing

[narrow tangle]

and if you make sub meta or viable for everyone then everybody cries

[waxen meteor]

you see all the short sighted moves

[narrow tangle]

majority of pvp population wants to do their pve rotation and do big dps

[waxen meteor]

and you can tell the reasons

but it still happnes

that's when you drop the game

[peak agate]

I think the reason for that is this game is 20 years old and they don't want to change the specs too much. Due to the expectations from the community.

[waxen meteor]

yeah that's completely fine

[narrow tangle]

i'll still play im addicted

[waxen meteor]

and that's why you need to keep the identity

not making everybody the same

alright, they cry, give them a 3 sec stun

so they have everything others have

[last jasper]

yea, ppl lost their shit when they added 10y old mount from the achiv

[waxen meteor]

i think it's entirely alright for example like sin has one less defensive than most specs, as long as we can really glass cannon

now sin seems just glass

but not cannon

2 mins offensive CD cannot force a healer CD

and opponent just stand there and face cast you back and you escape while on your offensive 2 min cd

[peak agate]

But you can't have big dot hits. It doesn't make sense philosophically for the class to be built this way.

[waxen meteor]

well, i am fine if they want us to be melee affl lock too

but that means we need to get survival

now the problem is the design is not for either direction

[peak agate]

Yeah. I agree.

[waxen meteor]

tbh i feel assassination spec name doesn't match with dot game playstyle anyway...

but that's been like this for decades

not gonna complain here

[peak agate]

That I can agree with too

Assassins kill things fast

[steel scarab]

@peak agate they could make Deathmark more impactful, more dangerous. Currently it doesn't feel good to press because it just doesn't hit hard enough relative to HP after the HP buffs

[peak agate]

Wasn't deathmark dots nerfed in pvp

[waxen meteor]

yeah in any game, Assassins class is expected to be a super burst

[peak agate]

And they nerfed one of the garrote talents in pvp

[waxen meteor]

in wow, it seems sub takes that role

it has confused me for decades lol

but that's alright

[steel scarab]

Yeah, assassination having no burst is exactly the opposite of what an assassin is lol

[peak agate]

I mean when I first played the spec I was thinking cool classic archetype of poisons and big damage in TBC.

[waxen meteor]

from names, purely...
I think asssination should be more like sub design, super heavy burst, immediate dmg; while sub should be high mobility, hit and run, continous dots dmg but you cannot get me

[peak agate]

It slowly turned into melee affliction without the dot protection and the pvp talent oblivion

[waxen meteor]

that's purely my understanding from lore

[steel scarab]

They nerfed Deathmark, they nerfed Blindside, they nerfed Dragon Tempered Blades, and they nerfed Kingsbane.

Then they gave everyone 15% more HP on top of it all. It's no wonder we can't kill anyone lol

[narrow tangle]

sub is just better than assa

in every aspect

feelsbadman

[waxen meteor]

tbc sin can be high burst even WLK

I played in s7 and s8 even without any dot

nor deadly

and used evis

I was the rare ones that did that, but it worked really well in s7

s8 it was harder

[peak agate]

Mind you TBC was what 2008. I barley remembered what I was doing other than people putting their backs against the wall so I couldn't mulitate them.

[waxen meteor]

Yeah TBC was S3 S4

but you can do quite well with sin bust

it's just in TBC, you gotta use Illidan's weapon

at least one 🙂

so sub or outlaw hah

[steel scarab]

Yeah that's why I didn't bother with TBC classic

Needed a Glaive to compete in arena

[waxen meteor]

I like S4 look

[peak agate]

Hemo sub build is the last time I actually enjoyed sub

[waxen meteor]

I still transmog s4 look sometimes

it was like my first season trying pvp

[steel scarab]

What's crazy is, despite the way they have completely catered solo shuffle toward healers, they still complain THE MOST in solo shuffle

[waxen meteor]

but i was more a duel person confusing on 1on1 over real arena

[steel scarab]

I had a resto shaman die in 4 of the 6 matches and after like the third death, he got put on my team and was like "GOD MY TEAM SUCKS SO BAD"

[waxen meteor]

this season, the HP buff twice was so much of suck healer's ass thing

[steel scarab]

It's like, dude, if you're dying every single game, it's probably a you problem

[waxen meteor]

and yet, it doesn't seem to make healer more presented in the game

[steel scarab]

No, it just made DPS feel awful to play

[waxen meteor]

no warrior is fine

zug zug all day and will not die

[steel scarab]

I've said it time and again, they need to unlink healers from solo shuffle. They need to take them off their perch, not allow 1 healer to keep 3 people alive at the same time, and make full DPS comps viable

Making healers insanely strong is not making more people play healers

So fuck them, make them weak again and have all DPS queues

Games would be quick lol

Probably less than 1/5 of the playerbase actually mains a healer. Yet you need 1/3 of the people in solo shuffle to heal

Math doesn't add up

[peak agate]

Solo shuffle meant to be a casual mode. The few times I've done it and see people rage at nothing makes me question why people even play the game anymore.

[steel scarab]

I've seen healers lose 1 round and then just sit and refuse to heal

It's insane

I guess when your queues are instant you just don't care

[peak agate]

Going to give yourself a stress induced stroke over uncoordinated pvp.

[steel scarab]

Me, waiting in a 30 minute queue, I would never do that

It's the same with healers in M+

Always the first to leave, often the most toxic

Cuz they get back into another queue instantly

[peak agate]

I made friends over the years with healers. I never have to do solo shuffle unless I'm bored out my mind

I also heal on my priest (I'm a terrible healer)

[steel scarab]

I get that, but not everybody has skilled friends to play with. I've played with my fiance, she was healing me in 2v2. But she's not experienced enough for us to go much above 1600, and I'm not experienced enough to tell her when to use holy paladin abilities

[peak agate]

She'll get better over time. Not like holy pallys are doing to great overall

[steel scarab]

Yeah, they nerfed them recently

Just as she was starting to get better lol

Should she be doing any damage at all as holy paladin or is it completely up to me to 100-0 people?

She will literally end a long arena match having done like 100k dmg

I'm wondering if that is normal

[peak agate]

From my experience memeing from 1600-1800 on different classes is the best holy pallys are the aggressive ones

[jolly sierra]

i got the 1k8 w ret when it sucked cock

got the 2k4 waiting for it in rework lol

was like "endure this shit, we can go later"

[steel scarab]

@peak agate so should she be trying to DPS?

I have no idea how to play holy paladin in arena, I just thought it was weird every match she does almost no damage, maybe that's normal?

[peak agate]

This is what I've experienced. They help DPS and cc

If they are straight healing, its usually a lost for them

[steel scarab]

She straight heals every match. So every match we've ever won, I had to 100-0 an opponent

I've told her something doesn't seem right but couldn't put my finger on it

It might be that

I thought they built holy power by doing damage

But idk, I've never played one

[peak agate]

I only ret so I can't comment on holy rotation.

[waxen meteor]

tbh the problem is here, in modern years, it's not a healthy game that you HAVE to queue with friends

being able to queue and play in small free time is the trends

like history wheel nobody can deny

it's not a WOW identity

[peak agate]

I'm not saying it's a bad mode. I'm saying it's uncoordinated and chaotic just enjoy it.

[waxen meteor]

it's a dated design

yeah and that's what needs to be addressed from design

and i get why people are frustrated

wow arena is you can actually nerfing your teammate dramatically

where you see other games like dota

yeah a bad teammate sucks

but they can’t blow your dr

and make you useless

[jolly sierra]

the problem too

is lack of moderation in pvp

if u use bots for that ofc ppl will be discorauged

[gleaming pawn]

Rogue is a high coordination class, it was never going to be the best thing n shuffle. The mode is not designed like that

A lot of classes suffer in shuffle, for the same reasons

[peak agate]

Blow your cdr. Cc that removes your dots. Cyclone the kill target when your execute is about to proc

[waxen meteor]

Yeah so classic

[steel scarab]

It's also not great that certain comps just suck together. Like rogue + mage is nice because we don't share diminishing returns

Rogue + ret paladin does

[peak agate]

At the end of the day I see people just trying to have fun. I don't get mad over it.

[waxen meteor]

Ret comes over to clean all your dots

[steel scarab]

Yeah it doesn't feel great to have full bleeds and a Deathmark on someone and another rogue blinds them lmao

[surreal barn]

@waxen meteor are you at the 1900s as assa yet

One of my rogues is literally stuck there I am having a tough time vs spriests

[peak agate]

Speaking of pallys fucking over your cds. What's disgusting is Hunter/holy pally in 2s. Especially when they are coordinating.

[steel scarab]

How come?

[waxen meteor]

No I did only 4 lobbies so far

Around 2k mmr

[peak agate]

All those pets. The hunter has a freedom. Then the pally can give him another. Can bop the hunter so he can free cast on whoever. Blessing of sacrifice, turtle, and the other hunter defensive that escapes me.

[steel scarab]

It is absolutely wild that hunters are harder to kill now than assassination rogues

Like

Who is balancing this game? Lmao

[last jasper]

waited for this shit 45 min

[peak agate]

Lol prot

[peak agate]

An intern.

[jolly sierra]

fucking prots

[last jasper]

They wasn’t even trying to heal. Just who dies first

[restive hemlock]

Oof... hard to think of a worse lobby for Assa

[last jasper]

wasnt assa

I was pumping destro death ration

[restive hemlock]

Oh well then nvm

[last jasper]

😄

[restive hemlock]

Destro would farm there lol

[last jasper]

U'd be surprised

Was top heal tho 😄

[restive hemlock]

I've only encountered a few prot pallys but I feel like none of them have any fucking idea how to heal

[tribal badger]

they dont rlly heal, they r more like a hybrid healer with a ton of group DR/immunities

the lobby is basically just who can burst thru the prots immunities first

[restive hemlock]

Or maybe just their toolkit was gutted from the shadowlands gods they were

[last jasper]

Would be better if they didn't have no idea how to q

[restive hemlock]

I mean just make them a DPS slot at this point. They'd be better than last season Augs anyway

[last jasper]

they didn't press a single button

[restive hemlock]

Or remove tanks from queueing but that would hurt peoples feelings I suppose

[last jasper]

minority

[willow valley]

rlly?

on classic isnt like that right?

[restive hemlock]

Nah you originally needed a Glyph to have it remove dots. Now it's just baked in on retail

[willow valley]

damn

i didnt know that blind removed dots

then theres no excuse to not use rupture

[restive hemlock]

Think sub mostly just uses it on KT anyway but ya. Don't have to worry about it messing up your CC

[willow valley]

ive been losing the oportunity to do more damage for a long time... only cuz of that

[steel scarab]

Yeah I played like 50 games before I realized that

Makes absolutely no sense, but that's how it is now

[willow valley]

true

[restive hemlock]

Yea there are a lot of things that clear dots. Ret's blinding light, hpriests Chastise (if not specced to sun), monks incap etc

Hunters trap

[last jasper]

gouge

[restive hemlock]

^ yea gouge can be f'd by dots

[last jasper]

anyway, rupture should be top dam

[steel scarab]

If they're gonna make healers have 1 million HP and have their whole team be unkillable unless CC'ed, maybe they should remove all DR except from your own character. Eg: your stuns don't share DR with other players, just yourself

[restive hemlock]

Yea that would be insane

[steel scarab]

It would be

[restive hemlock]

3x sub rogues would just farm

3x blind on healer. 3x stun goes on KT...

[steel scarab]

But they've changed so much about the game, think about it. DR and trinket were introduced basically as a kneejerk reaction to rogue stuns, mage polymorph, and warlock fear essentially being able to CC you for really long periods of time

[restive hemlock]

This meta is just more playing the long game than looking to burst win in the first minute. Gotta get em in damp

[steel scarab]

It's actually insane that trinket + DR are still what PvP is built around

It was introduced in vanilla

And still has not changed

[jolly sierra]

wanna break ccs?

[steel scarab]

You'd think the PvP gameplay might have evolved a bit. I mean, there's no burst, every DPS needs to ramp up their damage buffs to be able to score a kill, healers are immortal, every class has a self heal and multiple defensives

[jolly sierra]

make gouge doesnt break cc like w lock fear

[steel scarab]

But trinket and DRs are unchanged since classic lol

Wild

[jolly sierra]

u would have ppl hating us forever

[steel scarab]

How about make gouge not positioning dependent?

[jolly sierra]

bah

[steel scarab]

If we can backstab from the front, why can't we gouge from the back?

Make it make sense

[restive hemlock]

It's ok to have some skills require skill or have counterplay

imo

[jolly sierra]

just shadowstep and turn to his face

[steel scarab]

True, I love wasting a charge of Shadowstep to score a Gouge

When I'm standing right next to him already lol

[jolly sierra]

its that a waste if is far away?

[restive hemlock]

Why would you step them then?

[jolly sierra]

if u are next to him

then just turn to him and gouge

lol

though u said u were too far away+

[steel scarab]

I thought you meant use it as a way to guarantee you're positioned behind him so you can move to the front

[harsh kiln]

what

[jolly sierra]

lemme show u a gif

[steel scarab]

I just don't see any defensible reason that backstab isn't positioning dependent anymore but gouge is

[harsh kiln]

because backstab isn't a cc

[restive hemlock]

We just got gouge back. Just be happy we have it

[steel scarab]

Is there any other positioning dependent cc in the entire game?

Genuinely asking

[restive hemlock]

Trap has to land under your opponent and has travel time, Rake has to be used from Stealth to stun

[jolly sierra]

it was pos dependent long time before

[steel scarab]

So does sap

[jolly sierra]

im very happy w gouge tbh

[steel scarab]

That's not positioning dependent

[restive hemlock]

There ya go. Sap too

[steel scarab]

That's stance dependent

[harsh kiln]

no

sap is positioning too

[steel scarab]

Weird take

It's actually less positioning dependent than our regular melee attacks

[restive hemlock]

Think you're graspin at straws my man. It's not the end of the world to have to run to the targets side to gouge em

[steel scarab]

So yeah, very weird take

Since it's 10 yards

[restive hemlock]

The fact that we have a 10yd range is madness tbf

[steel scarab]

Only Sap does

[restive hemlock]

Negative

Check out Acrobatic Strikes

[steel scarab]

It's 8 yards with Acrobatic, not 10

[restive hemlock]

Ok

The fact that we have 8yd range is madness tbf

[steel scarab]

What is mad about it exactly

[jolly sierra]

that works with my racial too

[harsh kiln]

i mean blind is 20yds

[jolly sierra]

and i can use it in back

when im rushed i use the racial to cc instead gouge

also clean dots

[surreal barn]

Just had a Assa (me)/Ret/Ret/Unholy lobby

[jolly sierra]

oof

[harsh kiln]

and you can use it anywhere any time. sap is 10, you have to be stealth, and have your target in front of you. and not be in combat

[surreal barn]

[jolly sierra]

painful lobby

[surreal barn]

I went 4/4

Till one left

[jolly sierra]

XD

@steel scarab

[steel scarab]

@harsh kiln no matter how you slice it, Sap is not positioning dependent. It has a range, yes, but so does every ability in the game.

Positioning dependent means you need to be standing in a specific place relative to your opponent. Gouge is this way. Backstab used to be this way.

[jolly sierra]

just turn ur position, its still fast

[harsh kiln]

it is though, you have to be facing the opponent right? does that not count?

you can't have your back to them,

[restive hemlock]

He's referring to your opponent having to be facing you

[harsh kiln]

gotcha

[steel scarab]

Yes, but again, that's every ability in the game. We're talking about positioning dependent.

[harsh kiln]

yeah i get it

i finally get it

[restive hemlock]

Wasn't there a blinding light from paladin that you could jump 180 to negate or am I thinking of something else

[steel scarab]

Blinding Light affects things in a frontal aoe

Idk if you can turn your back to negate it

[restive hemlock]

Yea not thinking the current iteration

[jolly sierra]

no

it doesnt works like that anymore

is an aoe disorient

[restive hemlock]

He's referring to Searing Glare

[jolly sierra]

searing

emmm

still works

u just need to be in range

[restive hemlock]

Yea. They should make it so you can 180 searing lol

It's an annoying spell if your healer doesn't know to dispel it

[jolly sierra]

its pointless after 1k6 tho

also i hate its cast time

just feel like a waste of talent to pick

[restive hemlock]

I dunno it can be an insane peel against melee cleaves

[jolly sierra]

if can be easily dispelled dont think so

would worth the cast if it is just a red effect

instead magic

[restive hemlock]

I dunno. I've seen it keep people from dying which is why you'd take it I guess

[jolly sierra]

hmm

@steel scarab positioning is not a problem tho

can it make fail healing?

[steel scarab]

This picture isn't loading for me

[jolly sierra]

wait a little more

[steel scarab]

Man why does your game look so much better than mine?

[jolly sierra]

my interface is shit

[steel scarab]

What GPU/CPU do you have?

[jolly sierra]

i turned off it

to show u the gouge

[jolly sierra]

dont recall but was recently bought

[steel scarab]

Man. Maybe I need to upgrade. I thought my PC was decent but maybe not

Is from 2020

[jolly sierra]

i used stuff from 2016

xd

[steel scarab]

Oof

[jolly sierra]

before this one

[steel scarab]

I have a 2080 and an i7, not sure which i7

But it doesn't look as good as yours

[restive hemlock]

Yea that's plenty. Wow can be run on a toaster

[steel scarab]

I'm wondering if I have the resolution too low or something

[jolly sierra]

maybe

[last jasper]

Tell this to valdraken

[steel scarab]

Anyway that was my gouge complaint, sometimes it's hard to see what direction the enemy is facing. But maybe for me it's because my settings are fucked so everything looks blurry

[restive hemlock]

Yea thats fair. Had to turn down the draw distance to fly better but other than that, hasn't been too bad

[jolly sierra]

if u see u cant gouge just turn to his other direction and do it

jumping can short away a lot of distance

[steel scarab]

Yeah

I'm gonna try and fix my settings too

[restive hemlock]

I typically gouge off a Kidney or Blind anyway so it doesn't seem to be a huge issue

[steel scarab]

Maybe see a bit better lol

Sometimes I wanna gouge an ultimate penitence and kick and kidney are on cd

It's happened before

[restive hemlock]

Yea that'd be a good use for it

[jolly sierra]

sometimes i gouge at 4p for a 5p kidney

to hold dominance on target lol

sometimes fools trinkets the gouge

so i fully shove the kidney

[steel scarab]

Nice

[willow valley]

amazing idea

but im pretty sure that blizzard doesnt care

just wants to make classes op and unfair

[waxen meteor]

At this moment, tbh, it's actually better for the game to remove DR or at least between multiple people

I know lots of people would hate it

include lots of us here

but for a modern game, have a team shared DR doesn't seem to be a good design anymore

and of course that also means a lot of skill cut to go with it

like it's impossible to leave those smalls stuns in game anymore, like the ones from warrior/hunters to create a big cc chain with no dr

but that basically redo pvp

which means it wouldn't happen

[peak agate]

With no Dr cc, you no longer need damp. However, you need to cut some classes cc

[waxen meteor]

yeah a lot

which is honestly good

[peak agate]

Which may affect glorious pve

[waxen meteor]

for long run

like those 2s 3s stuns currently in the game is....

[peak agate]

But I can't kill any healer without damp unless they are terrible

[waxen meteor]

i am not sure if it's good or bad

[peak agate]

Unless they bring back 50% ms

And give the classes without one better cc

[waxen meteor]

which probably should be there too, but i missed a lot expac

so not sure when it was changed to 24% and why

[peak agate]

I think BFA. At least that's the expansion I came to when I quit

[steel scarab]

They should hire me onto the dev team lol

Not like I'd actually want that job, but

I definitely have ideas that would help

@waxen meteor yeah Mortal Strike only being 24% plus healer power increase plus HP buff plus everyone has defensives = everyone is just unkillable

[jolly sierra]

no

[steel scarab]

It's not a fun meta

[jolly sierra]

awful idea if is fixing min stuff like vendor positioning

[peak agate]

Damp was supposed to be a temporary fix. Yet it stills exist.

[steel scarab]

The least survivable classes need to get strong burst to make up for it

Currently assassination is in a bad spot because it can't survive with many defensives like other classes can, yet it also can't burst well

Outlaw is in an amazing spot because the whole spec is a positive feedback loop. More ability use = lower ability cooldown = more damage and more defensives

If they refuse to give the rogue specs burst, they need to give assassination some kind of built in cooldown reduction if they want the spec to be viable

Then, of course, it just becomes outlaw with a different skin. So I don't think they should do this. They should give assassination burst windows, so it has its own spec identity

[restive hemlock]

All 3 rogue specs have a good amount of burst tbf

[steel scarab]

I mean I would say they could probably safely revert the Blindside and Kingsbane nerfs, after the HP and healer buff

That would be a good start.

[waxen meteor]

[peak agate]

If I dot you and you don't heal and use defensives. I'd agree lol

[steel scarab]

@restive hemlock I think most people disagree with you lol

[willow valley]

like dk

[waxen meteor]

or doing 2s without healer

[peak agate]

Gotta do gimmicky double assassination

And hope you don't get a pally

Or evoker

[waxen meteor]

or surv

or feral that outbleeds you:)

[peak agate]

Feral blowing CDs in the beginning is more likely to kill you before you get your shit in

[restive hemlock]

That may be but I still stand by it. Assa is probably the hardest burst to pull off as there's a lot of counterplay to it. But when executed properly, all specs can burst

[steel scarab]

@restive hemlock everyone above 1600 knows to CC a rogue during shadowdance, it's some of the most telegraphed burst in the game imo

We literally turn purple and make a scary noise

[restive hemlock]

Right, so before you pop dance. You make sure those who can disrupt you are covered

[steel scarab]

Yes, let me just CC 3 people without using dance to do it lol

[restive hemlock]

Well luckily you have teammates

[halcyon timber]

Assassination has the highest burst potential according to pve kids and our dev.

[restive hemlock]

And can easily CC 2 of them yourself

[steel scarab]

In solo shuffle I would qualify them more as "hindrances to overcome" than as "teammates "

[halcyon timber]

Lol yeah its a 1v5

[steel scarab]

@halcyon timber PvE kids literally aren't playing the same game. Abilities and stats don't work the same in PvP as they do in PvE, so I hope to Christ they aren't balancing around that incredibly flawed logic.

[halcyon timber]

They always will because wow is pve focused first. They outnumber us.

[restive hemlock]

Luckily in shuffle people burn their trinket on the stupidest things. So just dot everything up and then wait to smoke bomb burst someone

[steel scarab]

"Well guys, raid DPS meters show assassination as the best spec, so obviously they must be too strong in everything. Let's blanket nerf their abilities, I'm sure nerfing Blindside and Kingsbane in PvE won't affect PvP at all"

[halcyon timber]

Once assassins dots are sunk in, someone is screwed if no one can help.

[restive hemlock]

^

[halcyon timber]

Its a pick your moment deal.

[steel scarab]

@halcyon timber I'd actually be interested to see the number breakdown on how many people do Arena vs. how many people do Mythic raiding

[restive hemlock]

Pve is gonna be miles ahead

[halcyon timber]

I have no idea but i suspect more people do than they admit

[restive hemlock]

Maybe not mythic specifically

[halcyon timber]

Some like standing around in cities waiting for their next keystone etc.. up to them how they spend their time. I fly around doing tony hawk tricks on my dragon and gathering

[steel scarab]

Right, exactly. Barely anyone mythic raids. So why do we care about balancing that more than we care about balancing arena? I am positive that more people play arena than the ones who mythic raid.

[restive hemlock]

I mean they're seperate teams

[halcyon timber]

Yep

They have diff teams who do different stuff

They do pvp specific tuning as well but yeah

[steel scarab]

They need more PvP balancing devs

For sure

That's what's gonna keep the game alive imo

[restive hemlock]

And pvp currently feels pretty balanced in the grand scheme of the game imo

[halcyon timber]

Balance is relative, they did this round to give people more time to react to X, gave more cc and tools but people don’t use them.

[surreal barn]

I’m sure we’ll get notes before tomorrow

[halcyon timber]

Our stuff isn’t going to do 500k in one global but a caster teeing off because no one kept pestering him might as apart of their fullmoon (563k crits)

Or evokers disentegrate / frost mage channeling ray of frost (needs to be interrupted and people being apart of a team) but individuals refuse to and that is why crap goes south.

[halcyon timber]

Expected notes as always

+10% to ape classes

Don’t ever forget the notes of 10.0 “rogues are doing more damage than we would LIKE them to be”. When existing tools and control / instant casts etc have been provided to stop / discourage us from doing things.

Not a complaint but something worth being mindful of, other classes don’t get tuned when single abilities are doing heavy damage with no coordination or conditions to be met.

Rogues do and the sillly “cHecK mY nEw 1 sHoT vId” does directly have an effect concerning propaganda and view of us.

[steel scarab]

Aka, the streamers should fucking stop

Because they are getting us wrecked by misrepresenting the class

[tribal badger]

I mean sub as a spec is designed to do less raw damage then most specs because it has an absurdly silly amount of control

most of those classes that do wild damage without coordination cant coordinate to a level that makes them painful to play against

very few classes can put the entire enemy team in 4-5 second stuns for their go and still do their entire go

regardless of how spread they are

thats why sub always get nerfed

and do this every 30s

[waxen meteor]

you mean for the 1% players

[tribal badger]

idk is it the 1% of players is sub is in the top 4 solo shuffle specs

[waxen meteor]

tbh it's just time to put the balance for most and the special ones differently

[tribal badger]

thats not just the 1% playing it and doing it well

[waxen meteor]

if they can tune healer and dps differently

pve and pvp different

why not solo and arena differently 🙂

lazy ways

[tribal badger]

yea i mean the only knob they use between pvp modes is dampening basically

[waxen meteor]

if i don't have a mind to build everything correctly

[steel scarab]

@tribal badger no I mean, that should absolutely be the trade. Damage for control. I've said that this whole time. You can't give subtlety MORE cc than every other class, and also give them damage. My solution was, remove Shadowy Duel (or make it so we can't deal damage while inside Shadowy Duel), and everyone thought that was dumb. Instead, Blizz nerfed the bejesus out of subtlety burst. Fine, whatever.

What I don't get is nerfing the crap out of Assassination, when we have neither the survivability of Outlaw nor the control of Subtlety.

[waxen meteor]

i just do everything seperatly and make everyone equal

[steel scarab]

Someone please explain

[tribal badger]

oh well

they just dont like sin