pvp

[tribal badger]

makes evasion such a short cd

maybe in an all caster lobby but ive been trying out elusiveness so the cdrs still useful there

[last jasper]

okay, I genuily dont understand. my bte does like trash dam

[languid ravine]

does that inclue eviscerate proccs during stealth?

[last jasper]

no, only bte

120k on a dummy is max

[gleaming pawn]

Are you talking about the choice node for Evasion/Feint cdr, or increased damage on stunned enemies? The increased damage is heavily nerfed in pvp. I want to say around 50% nerfed at least

[last jasper]

yea, was talking about nod choice. But I tested on a dummy and cdr is insane

[spring bough]

what is your vers at ?

[gleaming pawn]

Yep and in this melee heavy meta, you can’t go wrong with having evasion back fast

[last jasper]

36%

[spring bough]

before or after pvp buffs?

[last jasper]

36 after hittin pvp dummy

[gleaming pawn]

Outlaw cannot have enough vers

[spring bough]

might be why BTE crits are a little low. i got 40.73% before hitting dummy

[last jasper]

Im in sub gear. but still

[spring bough]

that extra 5% is prob huge

after hitting dummy im prob around 42-43%

[gleaming pawn]

A full outlaw set is sitting around 40-41% vers right now plus the vers talent

[last jasper]

well, even if i would 10% lower than u. U do more dam on an enemy player while mine is on a dummy with 0 vers

[spring bough]

idk. i wouldnt rely on the dummy damage. just get in games and let it rip and im sure youll see some big dam from BTE

[last jasper]

whazz's outlaw have 28 vers 😄

[gleaming pawn]

Are you making sure to Badge with your Dance?

[spring bough]

i know some outlaw are stacking mastery but i dont think thats it. i went up against a mastery outlaw yesterday and smoked him by like 2-3 mil damage

i also have the crit use badge macrod to dance and always use it with dance that helps a lot

[last jasper]

No 😄

[gleaming pawn]

That’s a fuckload of agi you’re missing

And as Outlaw you’re only Dancing when you’re pumping to kill someone

So yeah, that makes sense

[spring bough]

i know some might say dont do it but i found that wafting on the OH and sophic on the MH is a good combo. rocking 0 haste and the wafting makes energy regen feel so nice

[gleaming pawn]

And they are both 1min CDs so they lineup perfectly

[last jasper]

I swapped for insgnia so wasn't that much. but still shit dam

[spring bough]

just grind out that outlaw set and things will change just watch

[last jasper]

tier set?

[surreal barn]

I saw an outlaw without on use stun trinket and it was working for him 😂

I think he went 5-1

[last jasper]

Just wen a few skirmishes. 90k on a leather

still fun tho but..

[last jasper]

conq badge gives crit. Thats why most go with badge

[spring bough]

i meant more crit/vers gear you said you were in sub gear still

[surreal barn]

I said stun - the 1 min auto cc trink

[last jasper]

oh, lol

[surreal barn]

Some cheese right there. Ran the aoe blind too

Was so funny

[last jasper]

jesus, its even harder than sub lmao

[spring bough]

It’s not that bad lol. If you didn’t get the BTE weak aura I’d pick that up it’s a nice reminder

It’ll have a red highlight if you shouldn’t press and green if it’s time to spam BTE

[last jasper]

Lmao, I thought blade rush is still gives energy like use to in legion

[tribal badger]

it does

[last jasper]

Oh, it didn’t say in the tooltip. Then I’m not that bad

[tribal badger]

it should say it at the bottom

anyway thats what u use it for energy or a gap closer

its not worth pressing for damage

[stoic spruce]

That's not a very high bar tbf

[last jasper]

Yea it used to. It only says it 100% cleaves with blades

[last jasper]

Yea, same as it was back in legion

[tribal badger]

u got some weird tooltips on then

thats what mine says :p

[last jasper]

Not weird. Just Russian 😂

They still have some weakly buffs mentioning anima rate drop 😂

[safe cloak]

If a nerf has been done is it permanent? or can things change? Like does blizzard revert changes, or do they just buff some stuff so it balances out?

[tribal badger]

i mean they can buff stuff back up in the future yea nothings permanent

usually dont tho

[safe cloak]

So sub will never be as good as the other specs again? only if the other specs get nerfed to the ground?

[last jasper]

Hah. Usually things changes each season

Gear gives more stats and this can drastically improve some specs

[last jasper]

They nerf sub pretty much every season

[stoic spruce]

Sub is still the best rogue spec, idk what sub mains are smoking.

[stoic spruce]

Where did this even come from? Lol

[jolly sierra]

sub is like a cockroach

survives in the direst shit but always come back

[stoic spruce]

I dont think you see this kind of moaning from Assa/Outlaw after a slap on the wrist.

Which again

[boreal shale]

Im pretty sure outlaw is better atm now that every game comes to dampening

[stoic spruce]

Outlaw > everyone else

[gleaming pawn]

people just have an overinflated opinion of Outlaw because they are so unused to fighting them this season fresh after the rework

[stoic spruce]

But not enough to make sub worse than Outlaw

[gleaming pawn]

it's really not hard to shutdown outlaw damage

[boreal shale]

In 3s subt probably is

[gleaming pawn]

and if you keep them slowed/kited, they do 0 damage because if they can't cdr then cant do shit

[boreal shale]

Doesn't mean subt is bad though, just means outlaw is also good

[stoic spruce]

But that wasn't the conversation lol

All 3 specs are great atm

More than what the other classes can say

I think people saw the plate armor nerf and jumped ship to outlaw

when they seen the screenshots of what a BTE crit normally is (but this time its against plate)

[last jasper]

Depends what you mean by “best”. Pretty sure outlaw participation in awc is going to be way higher than sub

[gleaming pawn]

depends on team comp

[boreal shale]

Yeah outlaw is better into dampening/mana games and subt only works in certain comps

[gleaming pawn]

Outlaw doesn't play well with everything, but this AWC is shaping up to be boring and terrible to watch

DH/Lock/Druid | Shaman

all day long

[tribal badger]

wait did awc start already?

[gleaming pawn]

not yet

but that's all the top of the ladder is

[boreal shale]

Not sure what exactly set you off but i only started reading after "subt is still the best rogue spec" part

[stoic spruce]

my guy

theres only one definition of best lol

also, what people pick in awc isnt an accurate portrayal of live ladder

[last jasper]

True

Not saying sub is trash.

[stoic spruce]

nah not at all

[last jasper]

More like why sweat when u just jump on outlaw and can get same (or better) result with less effort

[stoic spruce]

I wouldnt say less effort, outlaw makes me sweat

I wish I could track how fast I press buttons

thats gotta be a thing

[last jasper]

Not saying outlaw is a 3 button spec.

[stoic spruce]

I didnt say you said that. I'm saying if my brain could sweat, it would lol

I wonder if some awc outlaw will try some batshit build

those are always fun

[boreal shale]

The thing with outlaw is you can do whatever you want while subt has to set up a certain way

That's not sweating vs sweating not higher vs lower apm lol

[vocal surge]

Same here with Welinth

came across the NA SS Rank 2 Outlaw and through all the CCs and down time I caught up w. him who stacked Mastery and Crit by 50% more

[languid ravine]

Personally I think its a much better to just track Vanish/Dance/Subterfuge buffs instead because it wont nudge your decision making into pressing BtE when maybe you should not during that particular global

[safe cloak]

Are enchantments a good dps buff, or is it just to min max snd get a little more mastery n stuff?

[languid ravine]

they are literally stats which are literally a direct increase to your damage numbers

[boreal shale]

It's a little dmg buff but all adds up

[safe cloak]

Literally?

[languid ravine]

yes read

[safe cloak]

xD

[safe cloak]

Ok, just cause i havent done it yet, and wanted to get a feel for how important it is to get done

[boreal shale]

If you don't want to buy all of them you can just get the 2 speed enchants and 2 sophic writs until you can afford the more expensive buffs

[safe cloak]

Aah, it costs gold? Haha

[halcyon timber]

should be pretty cheap at this point except for weapon enchants.

can just doa couple dragon races to buy enchants

[boreal shale]

All of them are bought from the AH except for mainstat gem

[safe cloak]

I am the definition of broke, got like 6k in the bank

[boreal shale]

Enchant prices just dipped too

[halcyon timber]

yeah just knock out some races for 500 gold a piece

[safe cloak]

How do you guys get millions of gold?

[halcyon timber]

enchants are like 200 gold or something for 3 gem rating ones / start whatever.

Professions and selling crap and world quests.

[safe cloak]

Ok, cheaper then I thought

[boreal shale]

We pvpers are all broke you might wanna go ask somewhere else

[halcyon timber]

Can fly in old zones and do their world quests for 200 gold a piece too

[safe cloak]

Sounds solid

[halcyon timber]

take like 3.5 seconds murdering a village

[boreal shale]

I do leatherworking and jewelcrafting, 5-10k a craft

[safe cloak]

Pull the entire thing and finish em off with black powder

[boreal shale]

Pretty good source if you got spare time

[halcyon timber]

light their whole town up

Old legion rogue quest gives 1.6k until it is toned down again next expansion (weekly) for stealing stuff.

[safe cloak]

Interesting

[halcyon timber]

can also trade marks of honor from bg chests for hang gliders (example)

[safe cloak]

The only thing so far I havent really gotten any experience in is professions.

[halcyon timber]

professions are much better than a few expansions ago

[safe cloak]

Yeah, ill give em a shot. What professions would you recommend?

[halcyon timber]

any of em, you can always make components that the others need

[safe cloak]

Ok, any there are the most fun?

[boreal shale]

Jc/lw/tl have the most orders rn

[halcyon timber]

yeah work orders can be solid

[boreal shale]

But you prob will only be able to craft pvp gear since it took me 4-5 months to start crafting max shit

[halcyon timber]

can also check the NPCs to see what weekly items they want collected for trading and you can list that on the AH and people will buy them quick.

[safe cloak]

Shesh

[boreal shale]

Not sure when the next expansion drops

[halcyon timber]

can also just craft green items and vendor them to some NPCs

battle pets if you like pokemon can make good money too

[safe cloak]

Ok, ill look into the different professions ty 🙂

[halcyon timber]

generally just check the AH and browse around for stuff that interests you and form a game plan off that

[boreal shale]

Profs are a rabbit hole of themselves so get ready to read shit

[halcyon timber]

I dig that they are interactive and a little thought into them versus legion style

FFXIV did have fun crafting , I will say that was cool and difficult to do.

[boreal shale]

It's still pretty boring tho, you pretty much do 6 quests a week then camp trade chat for orders

[halcyon timber]

made a lotta money doing that

yeh it is what it is, can't make people have fun or immerse like the old days " SELLING X Y Z ON TOP OF ORGRIMMAR BANK FOR THE NEXT 10 MIN ONLY!!"

that was cool because it was like an actual trade district and people communicated a lot.

[safe cloak]

I might also just forget about getting max gear as soon as possible and just play some pvp, dont care about elo, just wanna learn. So maybe caring about getting gold for all of these enchantments are a little too early for me. Maybe when I become good

[halcyon timber]

foundation > anything else for sure but gear sure helps.

[boreal shale]

You'll get max gear as you play with conquest

[safe cloak]

Got 2,5k+ conquest

And 0 sparks

Haha

[halcyon timber]

you could also run old dungeons for "some" easy gold

like go wipe an entire TBC dungeon as people collect old recipes and mats to make mounts and other cool stuff that are collectables

( rune cloth and all that jazz etc/ old gems and patterns etc)

[safe cloak]

Sounds interesting for sure

[boreal shale]

The fastest way you can possibly farm gold in wow is to get a job and buy tokens

[halcyon timber]

xD

[safe cloak]

haha

[boreal shale]

None of the gold farm yields anything close to minimum wage

[halcyon timber]

right, dunno I just collect as I go

reputation boxes also drop a couple thousand.

[spring bough]

An Outlaw smoked Pika in his latest video and Pika went straight to bro is a bot 😂 😂

[halcyon timber]

allegedly the guy was found to be abusing something and dealt with already

[gleaming pawn]

yeah watching that video the guy was crazy sus, but the damage he did as outlaw was legit at least

[halcyon timber]

agreed with the damage but definitely some sketchy mcsketch going on

[safe cloak]

Does sub rouge rely on good teammates btw? Cause when i play with good people, it seems that my efforts are paying off big time, but when i am playing with not soo good people it can be hard to, take advantge of my openings, since im not main damage

[halcyon timber]

yes , we indeed do

[safe cloak]

My plays are working soo good when I play with decent players. Syncing a burst window with main damage is soo much easier

[halcyon timber]

if it ain't flying, pick your target and just go

if no one is dying, you assess and quickly make a decision.

be a pain in the butt and don't blow all your stuff foolin around.

[safe cloak]

Alot of times I also have to use my stuns to save my teammtes from dying, and not using them offensively. Not a part i care for but it has to be done

[halcyon timber]

yeh, happens sometimes. Just try to adapt off it and do what you can.

[coral kettle]

@steel scarab @spring bough thanks for the arena advice the other day! Me and my mate just won 6/8 2v2s this morning. And I'm holding down respectable dmg in solo shuffle while weaving some cc. Starting to get the hang of things I feel.

[steel scarab]

@coral kettle hell yeah brother 😎

[coral kettle]

Also you'll probably hate me for this. But I reckon killing spree is dope for breaking roots and surviving being hard targeted 🫢

Dps loss vs CTO but surviving a go, or continuing my go from a snare has been real useful

[steel scarab]

Listen, my perspective is, if you're gaining rating, don't change anything until you stop gaining rating

Then review everything

[coral kettle]

I like that

[steel scarab]

And consider changes

[coral kettle]

I also have irons stomach and drink up. As well as take your cut. Figured if I can't carry yet ill help someone else carry hahah

[steel scarab]

Exactly

I think that while Murlok.io is super helpful, copy pasting the exact set of talents and gear the absolute best players at 2400+ are using isn't always the best advice

"Suboptimal" talents are often better for people who aren't playing the same game the 2400 people are

Do what works

[coral kettle]

Nah it's foolish. I'm not playing the same game they are. I learned that heavily with brewmaster. The murlok io talents are significantly weaker below M18-M20 keys. Like you're really gimping your spec by playing the 'top talents' in that case

[steel scarab]

Exactly

[coral kettle]

That's the most extreme example I've seen. But right now killing spree has landed me wins (breaking roots) and allowed me survive burst when my healer was CC'd. So I like it.

[exotic dove]

I have decided I dont think I can do shuffle as Assa anymore its just super tilting and D tier compared to 2s or 3s. 2s and 3s though is fine and decent climbed more though very happy about that making strides. I rage quit my last lobby I got so tilted to the point where if I made a tier list for Shuffle i would put Assa as D however I would put assa as B or A for 2s and 3s

I need to stop venting here sorry

[halcyon timber]

You’re cool man

No sweat at all

I definitely have broken a lot of sheet over the years. Stuff happens, people places and things piss us all off.

[waxen meteor]

I didn’t realize CT dmg is that high tbh

[steel scarab]

@exotic dove I had the opposite experience. I'm like 50-80 in 2v2 with assassination, but 12-0 in solo shuffle

That said, I do think it's super easy to die as Assassination compared to the other rogue specs

[exotic dove]

Im too the point now that I would not recommend Assa for shuffle to my worst enemy

Its a 2s and 3s spec

well to me probably now'

[vocal surge]

in scaled to 489 or?

im at 49% crit / 42% vers lol

[waxen meteor]

I actually like this look!

[vocal surge]

if I get procs from Wafting Devotion, 28% haste including Alacrity

Im thinking of getting more vers/crit gems just to balance out the secondary stats a lil more

since im REALLY close to the diminishing return for Crit

[gleaming pawn]

the corpse look is always a good choice

[waxen meteor]

BE rogue best rogue

[jolly sierra]

THANK YOU LOL

caps

[jolly sierra]

yep

better than black eyed NEs

[waxen meteor]

Now erase your panda character

[jolly sierra]

no

pandas stays forever

[deep hollow]

What comps are you running with outlaw in 3s?

[jolly sierra]

a priest and a mage

[boreal shale]

that's beta rmp

real chad plays subt fire holy

[stoic spruce]

Nah fam

Outlaw/arcane/Hpal

[nova viper]

seeeeeexooooo

[compact river]

Does feral duel better than a rog?

[vocal surge]

Feral is known in 1v1s as King of Duels

Especially if they're built to 1v1

you'll never catch em at all because of how long they're able to maintain mount speed for

on top of so many resets and while maintaining bleeds on you

[halcyon timber]

roots also not breaking easily now so they will definitely tangle you and kite, then prowl , then rake stun you and you're watching your life bleed out all while doing a 300k ferocious bite.

[last jasper]

When do we use adrenaline? And we use vanish after dance to extend burst or just whatever?

[olive crescent]

Am i wrong to say that any mage specc should outdps a sub rogue in 2s matches that last 6min and 48 sec? When playing rm

[boreal shale]

depends on if they're getting trained or not

[olive crescent]

We faced disc war. War was on him like 30% of the time. I stoped him pretty good and gave many opportunities for sheeps on the priest

[boreal shale]

do you have vod of the game? dps meter means nothing

[compact river]

No kididng. One game I did like 50M as affliction, but with no kill windows who cares.

[olive crescent]

I dont. But if u play 100 matches the avg dps meters should have mage on the top

Over the rogue

Thats what i feel after playing this matchup for 10 years

[boreal shale]

i ran some rm games with my mglad friend earlier and 80% of the games i did double his dmg just because every game he was the kill target

[olive crescent]

The mages i play with today do barely nothing.

Hmm

[boreal shale]

doesn't mean he's shit it all depends on the context

[olive crescent]

True

[boreal shale]

don't get me wrong your mage can definitely be shit

but you can't tell solely from the dps meter

[olive crescent]

I aint high aswell and i make mistakes aswell. Just at 1700. But the once that sign up with equal rating and gear. I feel like they should do more. But it might just be me demanding to much

But after playing rm all these years its just like riding a bike for me. Gimme 5 min and im some what in the zone again and not all ppl are like that

[boreal shale]

it's easier to tell if someone is shit if you shadowplay the game to have a video proof for them to watch themselves

i had a 1500-1600 mage told me i pve'd too much and his dmg is double mine every game

dude sent 0 poly whatsoever

i just dm him the video with the poly count and that's the end of it

[broken otter]

First day playing Outlaw, and I’ve lost count of how many mobs I’ve reset by accident, when I pressed Vanish instinctively to burst them. Haha.

[tight grove]

Two questions: Do we play the same way as the HO build in the PvE section? (Meaning chaining subterfuge into vanish into dance.) And why do people run Vers>Crit>Mastery when PvE is clearly Vers>Crit>Haste >> Mastery? #1174378766622015508 message

[potent pivot]

stat priorities in pvp tend to be different than pve

having more haste in pve might be more beneficial because you, for the most part, don't have any uptime issues besides mechanics etc

in pvp you're not going to have that high uptime etc

[last jasper]

damn, whats wrong with this game. 5min q times last 2h

[tight grove]

Ok thanks and do we use vanish after subterfuge fades offensively or do we keep it for defense?

[safe cloak]

Why doesnt 2v2 matter? I see alot of people i know who are 2200+ not care about 2’s. Why is that?

[minor cape]

it's not balanced

basically one or two comps dominate 2s

usually being most op healer at the time + most op dps at the time just outfarming you in damage

game is balanced around 3s

[radiant glen]

mix of imbalanced meta + no rewards
if you arent playing a top comp, you need to play incredibly cleanly to win matches at high cr

and when you do, you get nothing for it

[safe cloak]

Gotcha

[spring bough]

Nah that’s before pvp buffs

[spring bough]

Killing it 🔥

[wintry dew]

Did you get your gold?

[jolly sierra]

SEXOOOOOO

[jolly sierra]

which gold

[wintry dew]

From merek

[jolly sierra]

wasnt it for end season?

[wintry dew]

Ohhhh right

[wary moss]

He isn't getting that gold lol

[jolly sierra]

dont think so, but at least he already did his mark here

[echo abyss]

Hi all im completley new to rogue, just leveled up an alt and starting to gear it. What spec is the easiest to master for someone who is this new to the class? Im only asking because i know all specs are good atm and I really just want to play it some chill in arena and i dont want to have to mixmax to the extreme

[gleaming pawn]

Assassination is the easiest spec to learn. But rogue is not a class to chill with in arena. Playing rogue requires more forethought and skill to beat people with equal level. You don’t get to turn the brain off and just do damage like a DH or Ret

[surreal barn]

Rogue ain’t chill lol

If you have heart disease I recommend DH

[boreal shale]

if you don't have all 5 fingers on your left hand i recommend bm hunter

[surreal barn]

Bm hunt even better

[boreal shale]

i swear the average left hand finger count for BMs is like 2,8 or something

[wary moss]

I recently leveled a DH to 60 and I gotta say... the class isn't even fun lol

[jolly sierra]

play ret in that case

i recalled reaching 1k6 in mop w that being both a clicker and having not pvp addons

[wary moss]

Got my ret to lvl 58 atm 💪

[jolly sierra]

also rog in general is hard to play in pvp compared to other classes

even more for newcomers

[jolly sierra]

niiiice

[waxen meteor]

i don't think ret is easy tbh

but everytime i played many games of rogue

[wary moss]

The dk nerfs weren't that bad either. Lol

Got to play some yesterday and the most noticeable nerf was necro aura

[waxen meteor]

when i swap to DH

i feel reliefed

like alright, now it's zugzugzug winwinwin time

rest my brain

[jolly sierra]

ret is easy until 1k6, if u dont know how to use ur supp tools then u are stuck there

yesterday a priest asked me to sanc dreamwalk, i told him "can i?"

reached the moment, casted it and no effect

dunno how this guy was so sure about that

[halcyon timber]

Thought sanctuary removed stuns / fear effects or some crap and reduced by 60% if within x sec

Sleepwalk is a charm type disorient no?

[jolly sierra]

yes

is a disorient

[wary moss]

Hmmm if I grind rating on my enh shaman to 1800 I'll be in the top 200 for the spec. Lmao

How much self hate I want to put myself through? Lol

[halcyon timber]

Enhance slappa da bass

Tab target world cup champs 23’

[wary moss]

Enh is the coolest spec in the game....Shame its sucked in pvp this whole xpan

[languid ravine]

Its so weird getting the Elite Set in one evening, then having to grind another 6000 conquest for the Standard Set

[sturdy canopy]

Nah ret is pretty easy

I'd say ret and fury and arms war and dh are the easiest classes to get to 1800 without much of a learning curve

Especially in shuffle,

[boreal shale]

melee cleave goes brrrrr

[waxen meteor]

to 1800 yeah

then just take ret as a mid range melee with bubble

but ret doesn't work zugzug

is actually quite bad playing zug zug ret after reaching a range people actually are good at arena

[wary moss]

How aggressive

[stoic spruce]

RAHHHHHH

[sharp sierra]

Hey just curious, on sub I have 9 offensive cool downs it seems, is there a time you macro them or should I just keybind them all separate? Only thing I have together is cold blood and shadow technique

[steel scarab]

@languid ravine in one evening? The queue time is like 25 minutes

Assuming I'm being generous, and the MM places you at 1300 your first match, and you go 6-0 every match and gain 100 rating every match, I guess it's possible

I do not have patience for these queue times lol

[languid ravine]

I ve had last seasons mmr starting me at 2.1 or something

because that makes sense according to blizzard

[steel scarab]

Oh holy cow, that is absolutely nuts

I think it started me at 1100

12 wins later I'm at 1730

So still a ways to go

But two of those 12 were 3-3

I think I only got +5 rating for those two lol

The queue just turns me off. If I sit there in queue for an hour, I might pop two matches

[safe cloak]

I dont get why people play solo shuffle if they have hour long queues, when you get far more matches on duos, at least fo rmy experience? is it because it gives status having high solo shuffle rank?

[sturdy canopy]

You can macro some stuff together, like trinket, Shadow blades, symbols and dance, but you also want everything on your bars separately too aye,

[sturdy canopy]

To me solo shuffle is always part gamble, having low or high rating in it isn't really much of a flex, especially if you're playing fom classes

High 3s rating is the flex imo

Obviously if you're like 2400 in it it's impressive but I wouldn't say it's more of a flex then any other bracket*.

[boreal shale]

most solo shuffle players dont have friends to q 2s and 3s with

[wary moss]

This. I wish my friends from cata/mop days were still playing 😦

[sturdy canopy]

Plus if your doing world content sometimes it's nice to sit in a lil longer queue tbf, not an hour long but My ques are on average 15-25mins

[sharp sierra]

I'll just keep it together. How is the population rn? In 2s and 3s?

Also is healer sub good at all rn or nah in 2s?

[modern kiln]

!tricks

[lethal roost]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[boreal shale]

double dps sub is not viable above 2.4

unless ur rank 1 then you farm whoever you want

[sturdy canopy]

Healer subs good, just kinda hard to play sometimes as you basically gotta carry and setup yourself, best with a healer that can help do damage too like a disc priest

For 2s I always play assassination tbf,

For double DPS sub/mage is always strong, but again pretty high skill floor to play well

In 3s subs blastin,

[surreal barn]

Spriests are kicking so much ass right now

[boreal shale]

disc/holy subt is actually easier than rm, the pace is much slower

[wary moss]

Really? I still see them doom posting all over

[boreal shale]

and you can afford to make mistakes without getting punished too hard

[sturdy canopy]

Spriest could be s+ tier and they'd still complain their spec isn't good

[surreal barn]

“Good” shadowpriests lol

[sturdy canopy]

Aye a wasn't saying rm was easier just giving a double DPS option

[waxen meteor]

God 2nd lobby of sin

all nightmare comes back

warrior that keeps throwing 2s stun to kill target

[surreal barn]

lol

[waxen meteor]

ret that threw a essential stun not on healer but on lock

and actually healer was right next to him

[surreal barn]

Pally/devoker/spriest lobby oh my favorite

[waxen meteor]

he decided to ride to lock 200 miles away dying from bleed and stun him

then healer swap hp we lost

[boreal shale]

theres a macro that solves problem with people eating ur stun DR for no reason

/afk

dont deal with that shit

save mental

[waxen meteor]

damn mmr dropped to 2000

[safe cloak]

haha, 3s and 2s are soo much more fun. you actually know how good the people you play with are

[restive hemlock]

Yes and no. The skill gap can still vary wildly in 2s and 3s at the same rating

[boreal shale]

it begs the question: do shuffle players not have friends because they're shuffle players or do they play shuffle because they dont have friends?

[safe cloak]

im talking about teammates. If I played with the group i played with last time. I know that focusing more on keeping the team cc'ed is good cause they know how to capitalise off it. If I play with bad people I might have to take more initiative damage wise when playing

[restive hemlock]

Ah that makes sense. I was thinking opponents

I like to play shuffle when I'm working remote. Queue up and get some work done and then when it pops you get a lil break 🙂

[boreal shale]

the sole reason why i only play 2s and 3s and never shuffle is because i can choose who i play with. I can't and won't deal with people who make mistakes but won't take any feedback whatsoever

try telling your shuffle teamate to do something differently you'll only get [report message] back

[safe cloak]

yeah, I feel like its a gamble. going 1-5 and the game right after 5-1 or 6-0 is just weird, the inconsistensy is not thtat nice

[restive hemlock]

I wouldn't even bother with feedback. Just send it and hope for the best. Most feedback is met with hostility from my xp lol

[languid ravine]

this guy ddoesnt even remember a time before shuffle

[restive hemlock]

a lot of that can lobby dependent too

[boreal shale]

precisely why i play with friends who can take criticism

[safe cloak]

well yeah also one reason why 3s are better I would say. the comp stays consistent

[boreal shale]

and i'm a sucker for rmp too so there's also that

[restive hemlock]

Oh definitely. If you have people to queue up with, 3s is superior

If you're finding partners from LFG, it's still gonna be a crap shoot

[boreal shale]

yeah lfg is pretty much shuffle but faster qs

[restive hemlock]

I dunno if it's even faster TBH. You're waiting how long to find partners. And if you lose 1 it's typically back to LFG

[steel scarab]

@safe cloak I have way higher rating in solo shuffle than I have in 2v2

[boreal shale]

tru

all of my games are a friend of a friend whom i can trust

[safe cloak]

well do you play more shuffle?

[restive hemlock]

def hard to get rating in a bracket if you don't play it :p

[steel scarab]

@sturdy canopy how is that so? In 3v3 if you play with two gladiators they will carry you to a decently high rating. Who's carrying you in solo shuffle?

[safe cloak]

why is cold blood not wanted in pvp btw?

[jolly sierra]

i have no healers because both have a partner or i dont wanna mess my rating gambling in looking for group

[halcyon timber]

Personal preference, experiment on your own

[restive hemlock]

Sub already has a lot of crit. And dropping Acrobatic Strikes feels awful

[safe cloak]

The sepsis build I play doesnt use the acrobatic strikes anyways

[boreal shale]

most of the time it's not that you don't want a talent but just that there are better

[restive hemlock]

Your spec can carry you in shuffle if it's strong. Plus your opponents aren't coordinated either

[safe cloak]

didnt know that thistle tea was that much better

[boreal shale]

if you run thistle build it relies on heavy eviscerates rather than putting all dmg on ST

[steel scarab]

@restive hemlock that's also true in 3v3. If you're playing a DH in 3v3 you can be a much worse player than something with a low skill floor and a high skill cap (subtlety rogue) at the same exact rating

[safe cloak]

what build do you run?

[boreal shale]

i've been preaching this for a while but echo build is much better than thistle especially after evis nerf. Even pikaboo is running it now

[safe cloak]

Ik, but I just think it can be very hard to get a full combo off with soo many buttons that needs to be pushed compared to the sepsis

[sharp sierra]

Is the the PvP player base dead rn or solid? In 2s and 3s?

[boreal shale]

snagged this from nahj from when my healer was queuing with him

[sharp sierra]

Ohhhh kyrian 👀

[boreal shale]

you have echo and goremaw for thistle. Just 1 extra button

burst window flows really well too

[safe cloak]

but you could macro thistle, but you cant really macro those 2

[sturdy canopy]

Echoing is pretty nutty tbf

[sharp sierra]

What's another keybind when we already have 45

[boreal shale]

thistle build is easier to play def if you just macro it in

[safe cloak]

only macro is of thistle before secret tech

[sharp sierra]

Does echo build have the old kyr legendary attached to it too?

Echoing rep or whatever

[boreal shale]

ideally you don't want to macro thistle anyway

[boreal shale]

resounding clarity?

[sharp sierra]

Yes ty haven't played sub since sl

Forgot the name

[boreal shale]

you run reveberation instead for flat 100% dmg increase

[sharp sierra]

I'm just coming back after a year off and wanted to play rogue again.

[boreal shale]

echo dmg is now physical too

it hits like a truck

[safe cloak]

what do you use for opener for the goremaw echo? Is it dance, symbol, evis, gore, tech, cheap, echo, cheap. evis?

[sharp sierra]

Also is the feint direct dr gone???

[waxen meteor]

No

It’s just talent

[boreal shale]

i just keep it in my head that goremaw goes first then ST then echo

[waxen meteor]

Choose one from cheap death or that

[sturdy canopy]

Cheat death gang

[sharp sierra]

Ah the random wowhead build I had wasn't running it when I was setting my binds up

[boreal shale]

then i fill gcds in between

didn't learn any set rotation

[sharp sierra]

Is the meta bursty rn?

[safe cloak]

So Youre just goated haha

[boreal shale]

nah you just get kicked in the face until you learn to dodge

i had my hardstuck moments of despair but i just record my games and ask friends to review them and adapt

[safe cloak]

The hard thing for me was that people would usually trinket right before i got my echo off. Which kinda messed me up

[sturdy canopy]

Can Be, I'd Defo go cheat death in solo shuffle atleast

[boreal shale]

the thing with learning 1 rotation is it's harder to adapt when you're sending it if you do

it's easier for me to just learn the idea of what to send then press what i think is best for the moment

[safe cloak]

I guess i just dont have enough exp to have that feel

[boreal shale]

you can either restun and continue pressuring or gouge/vanish/defensives

all depends on what's happening

[sturdy canopy]

Or hardswap depending on what your partners a going and drs
It's very situational

[boreal shale]

it's always too situational with rogue to say what to do

[boreal shale]

yeah exactly

you basically just try something and if it doesn't work then you figure out why it doesn't and what you need to do

[safe cloak]

Ik, i was just explaining why having 2 new main ablities can make it a bit difficult for me

[boreal shale]

just think of them as replacing 2 shadowstrikes when you're going

they're all builders/finishers

builders can be replaced with builders and finishers can be replaced with finishers

especially when you have blades up then your options are infinite

cz you get max cp anyway

[safe cloak]

Ok

Its just annoying when i try to make a full go, and they trinket and go insta full hp, and now im just stuck with wasted cds

[boreal shale]

nah if they trinket then it's a win

your win condition is based on trinkets and defensives

you win when they don't have enough defensives to live your go

[sharp sierra]

Is there a reason to macro cold blood and ST or keep em separate?

[boreal shale]

if you run cb macro them together

you don't want to cb anything but ST

[sharp sierra]

Oh but new build doesn't run CB I just saw

[boreal shale]

if this happens you have some options: keep pressing on kill target or swap if you think you can get them to use more defensives or run and wait for next go

[safe cloak]

So should you then go the person without trinket or try to waste other trinkets?

[boreal shale]

it depends

[safe cloak]

Well i guess its situationsl

Cause you can do both

[boreal shale]

say it's a 2s game and healer is in cc and kill target trinkets

[safe cloak]

Cc healer and go on person without trinket, forcing healer to trinket

Or something

[boreal shale]

i'd keep going on kill target after they trinket to force trinket on healer too

if both trinkets are gone next go you just win

it also depends on how much dr you have left too

you wouldn't be able to force much if you can only extend the cc by 1-2s

[safe cloak]

But head burst time for me are very long

Cause i dont have the pvp talent that makes Shadow blades and vanish lower cd.

Is it worth to go that, bow that we have lost so much dmg?

[boreal shale]

you mean shadowdust?

im pretty sure thistle build runs shadowdust too

no reason not to

[safe cloak]

Im not sure that is the talent name

Its the one that is an envelope

As a logo

[boreal shale]

you have 2 dances anyway so the most you'd have to wait is about 30s

oh thief's bargain

you don't need blades to kill someone

it makes your goes a lot scarier but a healer in cc and a dance is enough if they don't have any defensive to answer your go

[safe cloak]

Ig that a main issue of mine is that I dont know all the definsives

[boreal shale]

yeah that you can easily solve by getting more reps in

[safe cloak]

Especially warlock, i dont get why they sometimes take no damage

[mortal jay]

orrrrrrrrrrr.

[boreal shale]

their defensives can be pressed in stuns

[mortal jay]

go to your omenbar settings... and hover over every single spell and read the tooltip... and study them till you know them by heart

lol

[boreal shale]

nah fam we bang our head against the wall til one breaks here

[safe cloak]

Nerd🤓

Never read

[mortal jay]

heh. yeah i've been headbanging myself (screw shade.. he dont know what he's talking about.. cleave build aint no good in pvp... ) till i tried it and quadrupled my damage and pressure

[safe cloak]

Is that a genereal thing or is that only for warlock

[mortal jay]

there are lots of classes that do have defensives that can be pressed in stun

[boreal shale]

some defensives can be pressed in stuns

[mortal jay]

paladin, lock, druid.. and a few more i think

[boreal shale]

just that warlocks are fucking tanky

you win against lock by playing faster than them

[safe cloak]

Ok, well how many definsives do they have each? I cant remeber 5 per class, takes years to get that knowledge into your brain

[boreal shale]

get them to press their cds and get your offensives back faster than they can get their defensives back

vs demo you kinda just do nothing

[safe cloak]

Often what happens, so i should try to bait the no damage defensive and go another one,

[boreal shale]

they don't die they do a fuck ton of dmg and your screen is filled with shit and turd

[safe cloak]

I just thought they got a sheild you should burn through. So i used all my recources on a no damage taking dumb warlock

[boreal shale]

well if you have no other target to send your damage at you kinda just have to send it into their defensive

and then play faster until you can go before they get their defensives back

[safe cloak]

Well wont it just be better to even go on healer, if you do no damage

[boreal shale]

depends on if you can force something out of the healer

if it's unending resolve + dark pact then you won't kill

[safe cloak]

I always waited for shadow blades to go, and used shadowdance moslty to get stealth abilties to pressure healer

[boreal shale]

but if it's just dark pact then it's totally killable through that shield

[safe cloak]

guess i just gotta get some knowledge, about all of these defensives

[mortal jay]

thing about lock.. if you do nothing to them.. just let them cast.. even a bad lock can wipe you

[boreal shale]

it depends on if you can force something out of the healer too

rdruids i would bait with dance on lock then hard swap on them when they're out

[mortal jay]

the number 1 mistake i personally have made and I still make but I'm trying to learn. is "tunneling" only one target as a rogue.. you have to be able to cc off targets, apply pressure to one while kicking the healer, stunning the off dps, etc

[boreal shale]

100%

your damage means nothing if the healer isn't in cc

in 3s your role may swap to ccing off target if the other dps or your healer is ccing their healer

[safe cloak]

My main focus is always ccing enemies, not damage that much

[boreal shale]

the way i think about subt is that you play according to a script

if the enemy goes off script most of the time it's a bad thing for them unless they outplayed you

as long as you know and follow the script then it's easy sailing

[safe cloak]

And what is the script? Cc healer and dps and go in on the remaining dps, keeping healer cc’ed as long as possible

[sturdy canopy]

I wish every demo lock player an unpleasant day

[boreal shale]

depends on the comp but i pretty much only know rmp

[safe cloak]

Rmp?

[sturdy canopy]

Rouge mage priest

[boreal shale]

and it depends on what comp you're facing too

cz it doesn't work for every comp

[mortal jay]

something I have learned is that knowing who the most likely kill target is makes knowing what you should do much easier

[sturdy canopy]

Thugs my favourite comp atm, hunter go brrr

[mortal jay]

as an assass.. if I see a feral, a dk, and a disc...

feral dies. thats the only info I need

that means.. I know i open by sapping the priest

next I cheap the dk to slow him down, then i garrotte him to apply bleeds.

then I step to my kill and apply a go to try to get defensives

[boreal shale]

rmp opening script is pretty much sap healer cs off target cs kill target priest fear healer mage poly off target after stun and you send everything on kill target

[mortal jay]

while "going" I keep an eye on priest.. if he trinkets my sap, I blind him

[sturdy canopy]

I'd double garrote, disarm the dk

Hella pressure on the opener

[mortal jay]

but as a rogue.. we also have to peel

[boreal shale]

subt comps are pretty much just like that just different cc variations

[mortal jay]

keep an eye on dk and your team.. if your partner is dropping quick.. you have to slow, stun, disarm, something.. to get the dk off him

[safe cloak]

Ok

[sturdy canopy]

That's the one thing I hate about shuffle,
No one peels

[mortal jay]

i sap in the hopes of a trinket 🙂 .. if my team is special needs..and stops my sap by getting the priest in combat.. then yes. I triple garrote on the opener

[boreal shale]

mid game goes are gouge/chastise healer rogue stun off target priest fear healer mage poly off target then send it on kill target

and you adapt based on how they answer your go

[mortal jay]

adapt.. is the point.. if you know the best kill target and have a general plan.. expect that plan to go off the rails.. but its much easier to adapt and then get back to the plan after if you have one to begin with

[sturdy canopy]

Improvise, adapt, overcome
-bear grills, r1 feral druid

[mortal jay]

but game sense will cover up a lot of flaws.. so the guy talking about knowing other classes defensives is right.. get that info under your belt.. and check out skillcapped's video on "best classes to tunnel" or some such on touyube

[boreal shale]

sometimes you can ego and not follow the script too

everytime we meet hpal my mage goes diamond hard and we goes hard on the hpal

just cz

[mortal jay]

i make that mistake often 😦 there arent many assassination rogues in shuffle.. if I see one... he dies.. nothing else matters

[fading blade]

Is the 10% evis noticable

[boreal shale]

dude you don't know how many times my healer yelled at me for ego dueling the enemy subt rogue mid game

lmao

[sturdy canopy]

As sin you gotta play hit and run most shuffle games Or you just melt

[mortal jay]

thing with sub.. you are not really a bursty class.. sustained damage is the key.. and you cant damage if you're not in the fight.. I've found that prop use of defensives allows me to stay in the fight and bleeding folks

sorry

thing with sin

not sub

[boreal shale]

we'd set everything up and my rogue brain just goes "nah i'd win" then i instinctively presses duel

[mortal jay]

i want to murder sub rogues who duel my kill target when he is at 30 percent health, and then dont kill him

[sturdy canopy]

It's a thin line of knowing when to stay and when to run, most of your damage should be from garotte and kings bane goes so you have room to run when needed

Your healer will thank you for running away at the very least 😂

[boreal shale]

with echo build you are bursty as fuck

300k echo goes hard

oh nvm

i didn't read cz i'm a rogue player

and yall can't even shame me for that

[sturdy canopy]

Reading is overrated

[wispy dust]

Is sub echo build actually something you can use for SS or is it a gimmick? Surly you are giving up too much for it?

[wicked tide]

sub is complete trash in shuffle right now

dont think the build matters

[safe cloak]

Think it is the best build. Doesnt mean its good, but its just the least worst. Pikaboo, saw it as the only viable build for sub

[waxen meteor]

damn, today is not the day for solo

lost in all 4 queues

yesterday been doing straight 51s

friday is hard

[wicked tide]

i swear we got stealth nerfed again

[surreal barn]

U an me both down 190cr lol

At least it’s on alt but still sucks losing

I honestly think it’s bc gearing is complete

And people were able to fix their messed up gear choices/try new things 😂

[thick dagger]

With the echo build are you guys having to build with 4 back Stab and flag etc before sending ?

[pale storm]

Praying for them to revert the stamina changes and bring the game back to its former glory with sub being the most fun spec in the game instead of this wet noodle 10 minute + dampener meta

[stoic spruce]

no

Outlaw>Sub

as it should be

[languid ravine]

I ve been put in the handicapped/deserter team EIGHT TIMES IN A ROW now in skirmishes

how is everybody elses friday going

[stoic spruce]

I cant get a healer to stay

we were in queue and they just left

[steel scarab]

How does that work?

Do you lose rating if your healer just leaves?

[jolly sierra]

floppa friday hits hard

[last jasper]

140k bte with sub gear.

I should admit, outlaw is hella fun

[broken otter]

https://tenor.com/view/big-floppa-for-bk-gif-25780630

[spring bough]

Whose tried Palworld yet lol

I keep seeing it all online this last week

[surreal barn]

What’s that

[spring bough]

It’s like a Pokémon parody and you have guns and can shoot stuff. And all the “animals” in the game look exactly like Pokémon lmao

Apparently it’s up to over a million or two mill active players

Yeah it’s second behind pubg on steam right now with the most active concurrent players lol

Apparently it’s getting PVP in the future

[last jasper]

sadge

zug zug melee

[deep hollow]

Just so easy for warrior / ret / dh / dk / BM hunter / demo lock to press 2-3 buttons and smash you to death

[tribal badger]

i love outlaw into melee lobbies

40s cd evasion

👏

[jolly sierra]

ravaged

F

[last jasper]

Literally m+. Ppl wasn't even moving much, just smesh keyboard at one place 😄

[deep hollow]

It’s weird.. 1800 solo shuffle is so much easier than 1500 3s

[jolly sierra]

is it?

[spring bough]

I’m up to 7 boxes for the alt lol

Me and this ele I’ve been playing 3s with just copped a healer and about to crush more games lol

this is wild lol

ima be duelist in 3s by the end of the night at this rate lol

[surreal barn]

Blade flurry big dam

[spring bough]

next game i had 88% crit rate on BTE overall lol

up to 2030s

[broken otter]

How do you manage Preforated Veins stacks, as Subtlety? Do you just not backstab and build combo points with Shuriken Storm, outside of Shadow Dance, to maintain the 4 stack buff of Preforated Veins?

Also, Murlok has most people playing the Thistle Tea build still, over the Echoing Reprimand build. Is that just, because it's not updated yet, or because people are still playing Tea over Reprimand?

[pale storm]

used to love thaty when oyu could 2v1 before tuesday, now it is so much harder

[steel scarab]

@pale storm probably just the simple fact that it was a reasonable expectation to be able to 2v1 in an arena is probably evidence that the spec needed a nerf

I'm not saying I agree with the WAY they nerfed subtlety. Just that it needed a nerf

[surreal barn]

Kevin we strive to 1v3 here.

[ripe sun]

ASSA is def the WORST spec in the game right now for RSS, 1000x worse than ferals

[deep hollow]

Imagine being a feral.. you pop survival instincts and go bear and no one even swaps off of you . Then you die

[halcyon timber]

Let it happen naturally as it was intended, don’t “try” to line it up. You kinda starve yourself that way.

[broken otter]

So do you even bother tracking it?

[waxen meteor]

Sin?

[halcyon timber]

Yes but if you fixate on it then you kinda just run outta gas “trying” to line it up.

Damage is still good without it “having” to be up but we are moving back to stun bot land and watching balance druids tear people up. Just the way it is each time this happens.

[last jasper]

Outlaw

[spring bough]

Outlaw >>>>

I love when people tell me it’s broken after smoking a lobby. Makes me all warm and fuzzy

[hybrid rapids]

Hey chat anyone know how to remove the extra bars below the 3 characters?

[gleaming pawn]

happening mid solo shuffle match?

usually reloading the UI fixes it

[hybrid rapids]

guess i'll try that next match

thanks

[vocal surge]

im so tempted to race change to nelf

because of how broken it is on Rogue atm

[spring bough]

Do it. I did lmao

[vocal surge]

its so stupidly strong on Outlaw

[spring bough]

Get that meld stealth cast sequence macro ready

[vocal surge]

send it here lol

[spring bough]

Make sure u ambush out of that first cause it’ll put BTE on cd before subterfuge procs if you open with BTE lol

[vocal surge]

Yeee

[jolly sierra]

am i the only one keeping myself true to my race here? XD

[vocal surge]

Lost to a BM hunter that was absolute trash

Rdruid was cheating as well

Damage diff if you're wondering

[compact river]

Smeld needs a nerf, tbh.

And yes. I’d say the same thing about hardiness

[lean shoal]

is it better to have a conq dagger in off hand or conq axe?

[vocal surge]

axe

Its down to preference mainly but I'd go with Axe

[compact river]

The better mog =]

[vocal surge]

Aye

If anything

i'd just remove racials from the game

let people be whatever race they want

[compact river]

Plz. I think racial should only be for flavor. Everyone says “it doesn’t matter,” but obviously it does

[unreal pewter]

You need to swap more vs Druid

And you win way sooner than that

[vocal surge]

Druid was not getting CC'd

by my priest

even when next to em

[unreal pewter]

That’s your job tbh

[vocal surge]

Im watching the lad

avoid CCs

that would've won the game

since the start

[unreal pewter]

Just every time he’s off stun dr do a go on him

You win like 2nd go

Maybe 3rd if hunter is peeling but your priest can just cross him for u

If Druid is stunned fear is full

[vocal surge]

You're not understanding what im saying

Im saying

Standing

DIRECTLY

next to my healer

he avoids the fear

Ik the range of fear because I've avoided fears by standing at the edge of my acrobatic strikes and dip in and out

and this druid was in that fear radius

[unreal pewter]

You’re meant to set the fear up for him, you’re not understanding me

[vocal surge]

The fear WAS

SET UP

[unreal pewter]

Just gouge or cheap into fear if you want to kill hunter

[vocal surge]

Watching a priest lag switch

in middle of fear

teleports and fears my healer by walking on the other side of ramp

then rubber bands back next to me

and fears again

before rubber banding to mid

[halcyon timber]

Pretty nuts kinda like when warriors bladestorm out of cheap shots while stunned sometimes.

[boreal shale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-ial_Cpe_4

[last jasper]

Yep. Rip sub

[vocal surge]

Eyyy

I beat Palumor

[hybrid rapids]

Why do I see so many outlaws now there's one in legit in every 2 arenas, did they get buffed?

[radiant glen]

no

well

yes

but

also sub nerfed so

rerollers

[vocal surge]

Outlaw's been strong since the start of the season

people have been rerolling to outlaw however mainly to the armor changes this week

[last jasper]

They just nerfed sub, so ppl speced into outlaw

Plus stamina which hits sub even more

[compact river]

Did it really though?

[buoyant crow]

I spec into assassin this season after not playing rogue since WoD I guess I should've stayed outlaw huh

[radiant glen]

?

[fiery gorge]

If someone is 2172 is it safe to say they have 2.2k exp ? or just 2.1k ?

[boreal shale]

i wouldn't round up but it's up to you

i don't think anyone really cares

[vocal surge]

wild night today

7 hours of blood boiling frustration, throwing, and low morale to beating Palumor in 2v2s on his rogue to getting a victory rush outta it and crankin' wins immediately afterwards

getting my friend his first duelist before raiding SoD's BFD raid and walking out with 3 pieces of candy for him

Set Clothie Helm, Dagger of Willing Sacrifice, and Invoker's Pearl

if your wondering about throwing

imagine grappling away from DK to avoid his combo

only to get gripped by your own healer into DK burst again

while DK blows his grip while im now in his grabby hands as well from my healer

[boreal shale]

did your healer forget to take meds

[vocal surge]

somewhat

he ran up to some fistweavers when they were about to die

and let em heal off hitting em after I locked them down w. shiv poison and a couple CDs to dodge their attacks

literal ez minute games gone from that lol

[wary moss]

It's so over for my wow rating grind.... tekken 8 is actually so fun lol.

[spring bough]

Does anyone know what pika’s addon is that tracks the abilities he presses and the enemy he’s targeting?

[brazen drift]

Abilities will be Details: Streamer Plugin.

[halcyon timber]

Had a team mate who had a Xmen uncanny power to use leap of faith during your burst and not taking damage or they would pain suppress walmart farts at the worst… most fkin worst of times.

[calm roost]

TruffiGCD can do that

[waxen meteor]

I have some struggles with fistweaver in 2s

It seems their hp just doesn’t drop at all

Just fist against you

[last jasper]

What is in his head

[stoic spruce]

Mush

[wary moss]

Lmao 17 of the top 25 enh shamans are the same guy

[fading blade]

So much doom I cant tell who's being serious or not. Is the Evis nerf really that bad to the point where people would rather outlaw?

[exotic dove]

The EVIS nerf is definitely noticable and I will say that Outlaw is probably better than Sub now but I dont think Sub I unviable. In some streams I watched earlier they actually did list Assa in the group of worst dps specs in the game which I might agree with Shuffle but not for 2s and 3s.

That and Blood Dks are becoming a thing which I am sure I wont like

[languid ravine]

meanwhile in the background DH with 0,5% HP

[spring bough]

i like this name for arena. walk the plank cleave. disc ww outlaw

[languid ravine]

Rum and Dumber cleave

[spring bough]

its fun we deleted before pally could bubble first game

DH only did 500k damage

LOL

[languid ravine]

wait he only managed to press ONE blade dance?

thats some control right there

[last jasper]

Evis on top of 10% stamina - yes

[fading blade]

oh wtf they added stam too?

[languid ravine]

because everything died too fast

[last jasper]

Yea, all dps extra 10% and 5% more to healers

[fading blade]

So basically sub is back to cc bot

then why cc bot when u can just law

[last jasper]

Exactly

[spring bough]

he didnt even get to cast it once LOL

[fading blade]

smh now i gotta get weps on my 3 rogs

[quaint cedar]

As an outlaw main it makes me a bit sad that no one ever plays my spec until sub gets nerfed into the dirt

[fading blade]

glad youre here, you got some good talents for me

[spring bough]

i get insulted when they ask if i just switched LOL

like bro i been outlaw since SL lol

[quaint cedar]

lol same

I played it at all the lowest points

SL S1, DF S1 post nerfs, beginning of DF S2 pre buffs

All pretty rough lol

[spring bough]

im smoking 3s right now with this WW

4-0 lol

we just did 150k dps each on this lock lmao

[last jasper]

What’s wrong with switching? This is a reason u play class with 3 dps specs

[quaint cedar]

This is what I usually play. Last talent can be count the odds or greenskin wickers instead of spree, probably just personal preference really.

BQQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAkQiEJBiESiISkkmkEtkIlkAAAAAAgUKRCSSUIpEBAAAgkEA

[quaint cedar]

I did WW outlaw in 3s back in SL S3/4, was a really fun comp. I haven't even tried 3s this season yet. Gotta get on that at some point

I've only played once since the newest patch this week and the armor changes have made the game so much more fun for me

I might actually start giving a shit about this season now

[spring bough]

nothing wrong w switching. just sad that outlaw been played by so few people in the last few seasons cause its been bad lmao

[languid ravine]

I ve just seen a shadow priest goblinglider into the lore helping me captch it at 0,005 seconds

[last jasper]

blade fury does nothing in st, right? I recall there was a time it gives % in st

[spring bough]

it does with the RTB buff

grand melee

[quaint cedar]

Not anymore, that was removed

[spring bough]

oh RIP

[quaint cedar]

With the rework

[spring bough]

i still have it up for the CD duration with SND

[quaint cedar]

It's now +5% single target damage and +10% blade flurry damage

Yeah still good to have up for pausing SnD timer during AR unless you are worried about breakable CC

I just have a macro to cancel it if needed

[jolly sierra]

wtf DF gear is the best in recent years for pvp

[fading blade]

have you tried the mythic necklace from raid in pvp

[quaint cedar]

Nope

Don't even know what that is honestly

I've barely played this season

[fading blade]

just a high vers crit neck that gives a shield

[jolly sierra]

pve equip effects are nerfed in pvp

[surreal barn]

Nerfed or not I feel like I might need something vs some of these lobbies

Getting ass pounded sometimes

Might need to watch a greater on twitch or some shit and copy

[fading blade]

gg rerolling lock

[surreal barn]

lol Paladin on my team did 490k wake of ashes

Gotta love it

2-4 I’ll take it

[jolly sierra]

OOF

[halcyon timber]

Paladins pushing into Northrend
Colorized, post third war.

[halcyon timber]

Probably partially attributed to the cOmbAt is BeTteR rEvErt iT nAo bLizzY people who bring up nonsense on the forums weekly.

Outlaw is cool af

Vancleef style for sure . Dude was sick.

[languid ravine]

I ve played with Retri like 12 rounds now and 0 Freedoms in total

maybe one BoP

[spring bough]

sweaty asf doing Dal's 5v5 and just went and cleaned out the whole enemy team LOL

[vocal surge]

Survives against a sin rogue

and beats em at 15% hp

for the entire fight duration

[spring bough]

God mode 😂

[deep hollow]

Yeah bro you can be above average if you freedom/ boo/ sac lol

[spring bough]

https://www.youtube.com/live/ech1WHwF4LM?si=5TVRuB25SS_GPJB3 go to 1:38 to see some wild stuff 😂

[stoic spruce]

This is why we harass and gatekeep

[jolly sierra]

decent rated rets which are consistent in that always uses their sup stuff

else would be constant at 1k6

[languid ravine]

I m stuck at 1600 with my DK because people are too dumb to kill observer or use ONE CC against the windwalker

[thick dagger]

So do 2’s or 3’s don’t know why so many people waste there time in SS

[next jacinth]

Wanna try outlaw 3s , what’s a good comp for outlaw rn? Thanks guys

[hidden dome]

Any shaman players in here?

My ascendence never heals

when I press it

Why?

[last jasper]

who know how to fix this dragon stuff? Sometimes it shows even on arena

[hidden dome]

Try /reload

[hidden dome]

I have lost 5 games now because Ascendence does 0 healing on cast?!

Is this a bug or am I playing it wrong somehow?

Details doesn't even list the spell

[last jasper]

Nope.

[waxen meteor]

lol never had this on me

[stoic spruce]

Thug is very good rn

[last jasper]

I actually dont even have any ui adddons that could caused this

[last jasper]

unlucky day. went 2\4 on every single alt. sadge

[hidden dome]

for War Within I hope there is 0 crafted gear in Arena

Worst part of DF PvP by far (aside from the horrible balance, but that is to be expected)

Also earlier Conquest boxes please

[stoic spruce]

Crafted gear now is in no way required

Earlier cq boxes would be nice

[hidden dome]

I just lost a game due to the neck shield saving the guys life

And let's talk about precog

They are not needed for rewards

but they help greatly

[stoic spruce]

The neck shield does save from someone playing unoptimally for sure.

[hidden dome]

It is just an advantage

It is not needed, 1.8 is easy right now

But it is still a "pay real money for an advantage" which has no place in PvP

[last jasper]

What do u mean by p2w?

[hidden dome]

Someone who crafts gear gets full equipped faster, they have abilities like precog, which people without crafted gear have not

At the top level, at the start of the season, crafted gear was needed

Hence pay2win

Now that conquest is uncapped it is not needed anymore, which is why it is just "pay for an advantage"

[last jasper]

I still don’t get it. Crafted gear doesn’t cost a lot

And locked behind sparks

[hidden dome]

Really depends on the server

And yes, most crafted gear is cheap now. I know I payed 40-50k last season for some crafted precog boots

[last jasper]

Wow. I’m not sure I payed that much for all my alts combined

[hidden dome]

The problem with low pop servers 😦

[last jasper]

Even at the start of the season precog was like 8k if I remember correctly

Or less

Just swap to a new server. It took like a couple of days to lvl up 70.

[hidden dome]

Eh, too much effort. I just play a char, get it to 1.8 and play my next char

with how easy 1.8 is right now, it really isn't a problem

but the crafted gear just makes me not play pvp at all at the start of the Season

[nova viper]

u dont like conception of crafted gear?

[hidden dome]

I dislike crafted gear, yes. DF is far better than SL was with double legendary, but I still dislike having to farm gold to do PvP

[nova viper]

understand sir

This is a statement that can be accepted

[waxen meteor]

tbh pvp gold requirement is low

[narrow tangle]

why is outlaw least played spec on pvp

any thoughts?

[waxen meteor]

I think it has been one of least played for long right?

From my personal view, it doesn’t feel rogue enough and it doesn’t feel warrior enough…

[hidden dome]

Why would someone learn Outlaw over DH, when DH requries 1/4th the buttons but does 1.5x the damage

New players don't try Outlaw, and old players rather play Sub or Assa

Only Outlaw mains spam him

2s would be way more fun at high level if kicking cyclone would put it on a 30 sec cd

[hidden dome]

But Blizz doesn't balance around 2s 😦

[deep hollow]

Man I would never play dh / fury warrior / BM hunter / ret.. I tried to do fury and the rotation is so boring

[hidden dome]

People don't play DH or BM because they are fun

They play them because they are broken uga buga classes

If they were middle of the pack or low end, you wouldn't see them at all

[languid ravine]

current DH is fun though now that you cant get kicked :^)

[last jasper]

I agree. Current dh is fun. Was even better in previous build

[hidden dome]

I am not sure what enjoyment is to be had in a spec that could be played by a goldfish

I think you enjoy winning much more than actually playing DH, but maybe I am wrong

[last jasper]

Like there is a spec that can’t be played by goldfish

[hidden dome]

DH is the easiest spec in the game, after maybe BM.

The hardest part about DH is not LoS your healer

[last jasper]

How do you define easy?

[hidden dome]

my friend who has no pvp xp, has no pvp skill and can't even win duels was able to hit 1.8 solo shuffle the first time she played dh

It would take actual brain damage to play below 1.8 with dh, even with random heals

[last jasper]

So? Your friend is good at this game it seems.

[narrow tangle]

same

[hidden dome]

She isn't. She can't hit 1.4 with rogue

[narrow tangle]

dh is rogue on easy mode

[hidden dome]

DHs actually play 200-400 rating above their actual skill

[hidden dome]

DH is Monk on easy mode, which is rogue on easy mode.

[last jasper]

lol, what a nonsense

[hidden dome]

I have gotten 1.8 with now 8 different classes and DH is always the easiest, every single season.

[last jasper]

cuz ppl at 1.8 just do pve rotation and thats it

[languid ravine]

guys dont mix up "low skill high power curve" with "easy"

these are two different

[last jasper]

and dh's pve rotation is the simple one

doen't make spec any "easy"

[languid ravine]

DH is still harder than BM, fury or demolock

cant think of any other specs that are easier though

[hidden dome]

Sure, at high skill everything is about equally hard

But I would still love to not have a billion DHs on my road to 1.8 with each char

Given that they are just straight up overscaled in 2s

[languid ravine]

nah absolutely not, fury is extremely easy at maximum skill ceiling, but also quite weak in relation to other specs at maximum skill ceiling

[hidden dome]

Sure, but I reckon at high elo it is more about meta skill like positioning and trading cds efficently than actually playing your class correctly

[languid ravine]

yeah agree, I think thats what makes DH so "easy" now because you have so many paths to victory

while Fury has maybe two

and Frost DK has zero 😄

[hidden dome]

The fact DHs dodged all nerfs is actually hilarious

EU 2v2 rankings

[last jasper]

It had plenty since start of the season

[hidden dome]

EU 3v3

The nerfs it got were tiny compared to how much nerfs it deserves

Even on US there are 5 DHs in the top 20 in 3v3

DH is clearly S Tier

[last jasper]

Yea, whatever

[hidden dome]

Not that Outlaw isn't broken right now. But Outlaw requires skill to play well, which is why you rarely see them, even when they are meta.

[languid ravine]

yeah because you play on like 3-4 levels: Throughput, Control, positioning, survival

and cooldowns I guess

with DH most of these are solved automatically

[hidden dome]

I remember the SL days with unnerfed enduring brawler and the Cooldown reduction legendary

Unkillable Outlaws haha

[mortal jay]

YAY! uncapped conquest!!! everything I need is crafteda nd sparks are still capped

[exotic dove]

FIgured out my shuffle problems I just needed to play my other Rogues. Both got over 2100 in not too long this week. One at 2118 and the other at 2152. The one I have issues in shuffle with is hardstuck 1900s. RNG lobbies I guess. Still rough as Assa though but when I dont have 2s or 3s I can play one of the other two rogues in shuffle instead now.

[waxen meteor]

Some lobbies are just hard as fuck

[surreal barn]

Yup.

[surreal barn]

You know something is off when I am relieved to see double warrior and DH in my lobby 😂

[fiery gorge]

How to play against mm monk + ele shaman ?

mm heals a shit ton with those totem things

[waxen meteor]

Just go aoe build haha

[surreal barn]

I came out 5-1 just kited the whole game and told the DH to go healer when he was on my team lol. aoe build would have been smart too

[waxen meteor]

It feels going healer is best for aoe build in melee blend lobby

You literally bleeding 3 with 60% bonus CT

And dance burst on all three are so good

On top of that we literally cc healer completely

I think in this way we literally become the dominating spec in such game

[surreal barn]

They’ll eventually release a black chicken mount calling it now

[jolly sierra]

gimme a pigeon mount

[languid ravine]

Massive redistribution of mmr, ComPLEeT ShAkEuP of ladder pLacemensts!s TOP 6 Biggest Changes in rating !!!! You wont believe what happened next

[surreal barn]

Which one of you just whipped my ass on outlaw

Straight up handed it to the lobby