pvp

[hidden dome]

the fact that half of Disc Defensives are unaffected by damp just makes 2s miserable

80% damp, Disc still not oom and pain sub, life swap and barrier still as strong as at 0% damp

And Vanish just auto breaks since the new patch

Fucking amazing

[fiery gorge]

How to have more action bars than the default 8 in settings action bars ?

not enough space for all target arena1-2-3 macros anymore

[topaz delta]

is there a season reset in 10.2.5 for pvp?

[cosmic thistle]

whats the point if everything is just easiy

[wary moss]

Not that it's easy, just easier.

Wow pvp is hard

[cosmic thistle]

just boring that everyone knows everything except me everyone is sweaty wow geamer

[fiery gorge]

its even harder if you are returning player lol

specs feel like entirely new classes

[jolly sierra]

what a fucking waste of time w amirdrassil

tried lfr

dragon bugged

i died

then tried to get back

and instead explaining me

got kicked

hope their fucking beds have nails

[wary moss]

I came back to the game after a 7 year break and the class that is the most same as when I played then is monk. Lol

[jolly sierra]

where tf is that james, better complain about crappy guideout for getting into a final boss instead literal vendor positioning

[waxen meteor]

for your ret?

[jolly sierra]

ye

[cosmic thistle]

how tf is pika soo good he even plaus heal in 2200 rating and dominats bro needs too go outside

[fiery gorge]

#showtooltip Shadowstep
/cleartarget
/cast [@arena1] Shadowstep
/targetlasttarget

correct macro?

Same for arena2-3

[grave basin]

I quit in legion and sub basically does the exact same thing

Now you add sepsis

[waxen meteor]

sub rogue didn't change much for decade

i came back basically from WLK it's still similar

[grave basin]

Similar but not quite

Idk if we can go back to pre legion sub where your dance goes are omega strong but it's a legit 1min cd with no cdr

They would have to buff the hell outta backstab

[waxen meteor]

yeah surely a lot diff

but the base is entirely the same

just adapt dmg distribution change

like in WLK/TBC, ambush dmg was higher than evis

[fiery gorge]

I quit in mop

idk how diff it is played dk and druid back then

I know the smoke bomb existed back then too

[grave basin]

Mop was pretty bad for sub though

Warrior could afk and you couldn't kill him with second wind running

[fiery gorge]

Combat rogue was busted from what I've seen

[grave basin]

Revealing strike 9 second kidney into red bandit guile killing spree

cooms

Was fun

[pale storm]

Red buff killing spree was WoD I thought

Bring back burst of speed lol

[buoyant crow]

Is sub the hardest spec to play in 2s?

I want to learn it but it's so intimidating lol

[minor cape]

it's absolutely not the hardest spec ever to play in 2s

didnt play this patch

but last patch it was lame as hell

rogue mage was playable, but a lot of times you just didn't have enough damage for the final push and it was very frustrating to play tbh, even if it wasn't THAT bad

sub disc was allright, but same problem honestly

so if you don't mind being defeated by zug damage farm sometimes, you will be fine 😄

[tribal badger]

its sorta a unique spec but i wouldnt say its hard to play with how its designed rn

[stoic spruce]

Can wow like

Stop talking about feelings for one cutscene?

[wintry dew]

Tbf malfurion one was pretty good

[surreal barn]

@stoic spruce are you a mechagnome

[cosmic thistle]

is conquest uncapped?

[surreal barn]

23rd

[cosmic thistle]

why

[stoic spruce]

No

[wary moss]

You get that 1800?

[cosmic thistle]

nah downloaed wow now

getting my addons now

[cosmic thistle]

uknow what the addon is that shows ur how long ur stun is on the side of their name?

[wary moss]

I use big debuffs

[cosmic thistle]

ty

[wary moss]

It puts the stun icon and a timer over character portraits

Np

[cosmic thistle]

yha ty thats what the addon that was missing for me

[wary moss]

I didn't get to play last night. Probably won't get tonight either.

Run away with the lead, while you can :p

[cosmic thistle]

isnt there a addon like gladius but its ingame

like wows normal ui

cause my gladius isnt working and zeiss told me has it and shows trinket but can find it

[cosmic thistle]

nah idk if i can reach 1800 this quick have an alt too gear and going out with friends today cause iam finnaly not sick

[wary moss]

Nice!

[cosmic thistle]

but 1800 peice of cake

will get it tonight

[nova dragon]

is there anything i can do about gladius just being bricked for the last 3 days

[wary moss]

Pretty much just play without it or wait till the update

[nova dragon]

it says it was updated tho

ah nvm

its 10.2

[jolly sierra]

im giving 5k gold to merek if he reaches 1k8 now

[wary moss]

What about me? Lol

[jolly sierra]

u can get it clearly

[potent pivot]

There’s sArena if that’s what you mean

[last jasper]

And if not, panda gets 5k?

[jolly sierra]

if not i will say "u cocky"

[wary moss]

Aw man...

[buoyant crow]

Does sArena still work? It hasn't been updated in years it looked like

[surreal barn]

Standard frames show trinket now

Not sure settings setup but it’s there

I know on my setup an addon shows over the enemies heads their used CDs (and time until they come back) + trinket

[last jasper]

That’s not cocky at this point anymore

[gleaming pawn]

There’s a few branches of sArena that have been updated over the years, but none of them have been updated to fix whatever got broke this week

If blizzard would give us quick focus on the base arena frames, I wouldn’t even bother with one anymore

[jolly sierra]

idk at this step

[last jasper]

I’d say bs at this step

[last jasper]

Plus drs.

[gleaming pawn]

DRs would be nice for sure, but we have other addons that can display that stuff so it’s not critical. The quick focus is something I’ve used for years so not having it hurts a lot

[buoyant crow]

You mean a keybind to quick focus change right?

I usually right click the default arena frames to set focus target

I don't know any other way 🥲

But I'm also still a noob and learning so much everyday

Information overload lol

[inner tartan]

so um in solo shuffle why are player at 2k 1950 worse then 1500 players

wtf is going on im sooo confused]'

they dont use deffenses at all like in 1950 when ever i go to cd and healing meters no one is useing anything

[last jasper]

We have Addons for many stuff. I mean if u adding trinkets why not add drs? Just trinkets in not enough for ppl to drop some addons

[surreal barn]

Bad to be so dependent on one tbh that’s why I swapped lol

But hopefully ActiBlizz adds it all to the stock UI. I am SOO surprised that they didn’t revamp it more PvPwise during the Dragonflight UI update earlier last year

[buoyant crow]

I am holding out hope that they will add more options in the future.

[cosmic thistle]

ty

[jolly sierra]

he has 3 more hours

[steel scarab]

Just dropping in to agree that everything needed to effectively participate in arena should be part of the stock UI.

It's absolutely bonkers that Diminishing Returns is such a critically important part of PvP, yet the game NEVER even introduces this to new players as a concept, let alone the fact the game doesn't have a baked-in DR tracker.

Imagine being a new rogue and just being like, "wait, why did my Kidney Shot only last 3 seconds? The tooltip says 6 seconds" and having to Google an explanation because the game literally never explains that to you

In before the weirdos jump in to defend the game not explaining Diminishing Returns to new players.

[lucid citrus]

https://tenor.com/view/okay-ok-ok-ok-oh-ok-oh-okay-gif-18238573721271168162

[jolly sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/ah-shit-here-we-go-again-ah-shit-cj-gta-gta-san-andreas-gif-13933485

[jolly sierra]

u cocky

[lapis breach]

Even better, how the hell does the hellbloom PVP set not specify that it doesn't work in any PVP setting except open world? It's absurd.

There are some totally ridiculous oversights in this game

[steel scarab]

Yup, another great example. I had the Hellbloom 2 set equipped for weeks assuming the versatility bonus worked in Arena. Only recently found out it doesn't

[lapis breach]

Same

[nova dragon]

how much mastery do i want as sub outside of arena

[last jasper]

I give 5k that he is not going to have 1.8😂 until huge inflation

[jolly sierra]

XD

[gleaming pawn]

[last jasper]

Lmao, haven’t notice they found each other 😂

[gleaming pawn]

I can see it now, it’s the final week of the patch and he keeps getting 1 good win away from 1800 and can’t make it and has a meltdown

[jolly sierra]

top 10 anime crossovers

[jolly sierra]

he needs 2k2 to do the bet

[gleaming pawn]

Oh we all knew he was never going to get that without paying for a boost

[last jasper]

Around 100

[safe cloak]

How much better is pvp gear then just pve gear? Like how big of a damage boost would I get if I turned all my gear into pvp gear?

[inner tartan]

what itemlvl is ur pve gear and how much ves

[mild sparrow]

Full conquest gear will be better as it scales to 489 in PvP combat. You’d have to be decked out in fully upgraded Myth track PvE gear to hit that, and even then your stats would be wrong

[safe cloak]

ok but my question was, how much better pvp gear is in terms of damage. I am new to pvp and want to learn 🙂

[mild sparrow]

It’s not just damage, it’s armor and stamina. You’ll get steamrolled at 460 levels of stam

Because you’ll be up against people that scale to 480+ in PvP

To answer the question more succinctly: PvP gear is way better

[safe cloak]

ok. I am not doing much dps rn. So was just wondering what the standart dmg for sub rouge dps was with pvp gear. This was a decent run. and I know I am new so its not optimised rotation.

[lofty vine]

10% eviscerate nerfs :(((((

[cosmic thistle]

oh okey i will get it now chill getting on

i have probllem with gladius tho and get see my dms

so idk if i can play

[jolly sierra]

was for this night

u didnt reached it

so

[cosmic thistle]

is still night

well i dont need 5k cause ur paying me 100k soon

[last jasper]

What the fuck

It seems I’m not gonna to resub 😂

[cosmic thistle]

why those gladius need to fking bugged iam going insane that i cant see my dmrs and that means no wow

omg i found a gladius with somone with 2k downloads and worked

[surreal barn]

some serious changes to health and armor

[last jasper]

And they add 10% hp on top of that

[last jasper]

Yea. Gg for dks

[quaint cedar]

They finally normalized armor

Good change

[surreal barn]

Big question is… are pallys gonna be dealing ridiculous damage lol

[quaint cedar]

I wonder what the difference for physical damage against cloth vs plate will be now

I don't know the math on it, does anyone else? Will they take equal damage?

[last jasper]

Locks are gonna skyrocket

[quaint cedar]

Yeah locks are probably going to need a demon armor nerf

They will legit be unkillable for physical damage if not

[surreal barn]

Assa numbers should be the same

Tbh

[quaint cedar]

Yeah outlaw would be the most affected of the rogue specs

[surreal barn]

Will be better for you tbh

I feel like pally will be the kill target every time now

[last jasper]

Prolly gonna try outlaw myself. Don’t like that 10% evis

[safe cloak]

did sub get a phat nerf?

[pale storm]

Ugh increased hp and evis nerf, bigger damp meta Inc

RIP

[last jasper]

Lmao, locks now have more armor than leather lol

[safe cloak]

How geared should I be before I start doing rated arenas?

[tribal badger]

law got a MASSIVE buff tho

[surreal barn]

If they are going to pull something like this then I hope it’s followed up with quick tunes after

Or it’s gonna get a little weird

[waxen meteor]

Wow

[tribal badger]

well the armor changes wont do that much to most specs but should normalize outliers like law/marks/fury(?) damage more across armor types

[halcyon timber]

ret apocolypse 2.0. No big deal for 250k combined effects atm though.

[cosmic thistle]

@surreal barn iam giving up now wow sucks

[surreal barn]

I just see it as classes like DH getting an edge

[halcyon timber]

@cosmic thistle don't ever give up. Be frustrated by all means but NEVER give up.

[surreal barn]

Nah this won’t really effect us assa

[cosmic thistle]

no wow fking sucks eveythign in their pvp system

[waxen meteor]

And

[surreal barn]

lol

[cosmic thistle]

no the game is trash

[halcyon timber]

should of just nerfed finality tea spam

[surreal barn]

At least you can laugh about it lol

[waxen meteor]

I said there would be no nerf anymore now just don’t play sub anymore

[halcyon timber]

the game isn't trash, this is the easiest it has ever been to aquire gear

solo shuffle is frustrating for everyone so don't take that to heart either man.

[cosmic thistle]

i dont need gear bro iam doing ranked

[jolly sierra]

time to push

[waxen meteor]

There’s no nerf on DH nor BM

But on sub

[halcyon timber]

not needed for afk damage classes man

pve classes don't get touched man

[cosmic thistle]

no causee when ur ust fking harstuck idk how long 1 month in 1500 iam done with wow its trash

[waxen meteor]

I guess I will spend some time on Monday to finish DH then next week will be ret

[cosmic thistle]

its not fun playing a game that makes me just want too fking kill myself everytime i even opne it up

its sucks

everything

sucks

so fkign much

[halcyon timber]

take a break man

literally

[cosmic thistle]

yha fuck that game

[halcyon timber]

it's alright

[cosmic thistle]

iam going too league now forever

[halcyon timber]

alrighty man

[cosmic thistle]

did 1 game now in 2 days and won only 1 iam done with the game

brb cya in 1 month

[halcyon timber]

alrighty man

catch you later on

[jolly sierra]

nah

[cosmic thistle]

can i get banned for having vpn on wow?

[wary moss]

Dk nerfs make sad... physical damage is already rough on them so the 30% armor reduction is gonna hurt.

Damage wise they will be fine though...still sadge

[jolly sierra]

ill be straight with you merek

you are a bad player

[cosmic thistle]

fr

[jolly sierra]

you never accept ur mistakes

you are very toxic

and blames everybody but you

[last jasper]

Ez 5k for me 😂

[jolly sierra]

if you keeps that mentality dont bother in come back

period

[cosmic thistle]

nah i cant even see what iam doing wrong thats the case 20 min queue i can do soemthing so much more and get better on

i will come back but not any time soon

[wary moss]

@jolly sierra coach me on ret. I have never played it. Lol

[jolly sierra]

sure

[cosmic thistle]

anyone know if vpn bans u on wow?

[surreal barn]

If you bounce around then yeah it will flag

[cosmic thistle]

yha gg

no more wow then

[halcyon timber]

don't cheese the game

[cosmic thistle]

huh?

[last jasper]

Why would it? You region is locked by account

[waxen meteor]

The basic logic is similar to rogue, you have CPs, CP generators and finisher…

[tribal badger]

ok but its 30% armor imptov to the squishiest classes in the game

[waxen meteor]

Just watch out more for your teammates

[tribal badger]

they nerfed the armor on classes that actually have armor

[cosmic thistle]

cause i had vpn for like 20min and then leaved

forgot too turn off it

[tribal badger]

this is just normalizing it so clothies rnt uber squishy and plate isnt uber tanky vs outlaw/marks/fury etc

[surreal barn]

Years ago I hopped on my cousins account from Pennsylvania and he was on like an hour before

[halcyon timber]

RF is going to melt tf out of plate

[surreal barn]

Looked suspicious on WoWs end

[halcyon timber]

already does like 50k to leather per hit

[waxen meteor]

VPN does ban you on wow

I had my first NA account banned for that years ago

Tbh very dumb

Not exactly sure if it’s still the case

[halcyon timber]

can thank all the npcs running into orgrimarr spelling gold sites and crap when they died

back in the day

[cosmic thistle]

nahhhhh

iam done

fr

its over

wow hates me

[last jasper]

The problem is there is classes like locks which are already tanky af. And dks that could be bullied by other melees. Esp fdk.

[surreal barn]

You can’t really get banned if you spoof properly but I’m not getting into that

Have to play around the time tables - for all intents and purposes yeah don’t do it

[tribal badger]

sure but this doesnt really make them that much overall tankier, just tankier vs physical damage dealers

and like, marks and arms warrior ate warlocks alive

idk its a good thing to normalize armor

[cosmic thistle]

iknow how to n spoof and hwid reset and that but nah if they ban me i will just leave it

[tribal badger]

because most classes dont care about armor

but then u have some specs that deal 100% physical damage

[last jasper]

Prolly back in the day when account sharing was a thing. I might be wrong tho

[tribal badger]

and actually have a massive difference in pressure vs cloth/plate

seems silly

[wary moss]

Time to push hard before the reset on my dk. Then lvl a pali see how I like ret lol

[tribal badger]

like as law in mostly plate/mail lobies im usually competing for mid damage, pressures ok but i can feel the damage loss

in full cloth lobbies i literally do 120k dps

[last jasper]

I agree about cloth. Being one shoted by mm is not fun. But for dks that rough. Leaving them like that

[tribal badger]

the difference is wild

[cosmic thistle]

i will join this dc after my brake so cya in 1 month

[tribal badger]

what u mean making dks more squishy?

[waxen meteor]

Ret is easy tbh, but you gotta be quite familiar with all normal dmg ‘rotation’ before you can focus on teammates

[tribal badger]

i mean it only makes them more squishy to like, marks and outlaw

theres really so few specs heavily impacted by armor

normalizing it is def good

makes it easier to tune those specs

cause if u nerf marks so it isnt 1 shotting mages, it will literally never be able to kill a plate class rn

[waxen meteor]

If I remember correctly lock already has some 190% armor or sth

[surreal barn]

lol warriors are about to feel the pain of getting opened on by MM 😂

Gonna be hilarious

[waxen meteor]

Tbh I don’t get this change at all

Why ignore armor

[surreal barn]

I think I’ll gear up the MM they about to kick some serious ass

[waxen meteor]

And make diffenr armors the same

[last jasper]

They already were squishy against melee. Fdk was straight meme.

[waxen meteor]

You already can one shot war even today if they don’t pay attention

[tribal badger]

well most melee in this game dont care about armor?

[last jasper]

They are gonna have more armor than leather after reset now 😂

[tribal badger]

im trying to think off the top of my head what specs actually care about armor

law is 100% physical non dot damage, deals with full armor

most of marks burst deals with full armor

fury warrior i think... is mostly direct damage? and physical

arms is like 40% bleeds at this point so armor doesnt hurt it that much

[waxen meteor]

Hmm that high?

I didn’t realize it

[tribal badger]

between rend and mastery and shout yea

[jolly sierra]

tbh

[waxen meteor]

I thought arms only have one serious bleed dmg source, and it’s long cd

[jolly sierra]

i play from south america to EU

[tribal badger]

no rend and mastery r both large contributers

[waxen meteor]

Other bleed is fairly small dmg

[jolly sierra]

and got 2k1 in regular season and 2k4 in special ones

there are not excuses to push rating

[last jasper]

At some point they all have. sub evis mostly phys. Monks(?)

[tribal badger]

oh yea i mean in various points various specs have dealt with armor to different degrees

sub has a fair amount of shadow damage now to help bypass it (also, sub has find weakness which is great at normalizing armor and outlaw lost unfort)

i have no idea for monk. maybe it is all physical?

i dont think they really have dots

i thought some of their spells did elemental damage but maybe not

[jolly sierra]

every 4 holy power use templar veredict, always keep expurgation dot from blade of justice active if possible

judgment the target in expurgation

[tribal badger]

these ret buffs not having "pve only tuning" worry me a bit tho

[jolly sierra]

priority to earn power is hammer of wrath

sync execution sentence with wake of ashes and divine toll

[last jasper]

Idk about monk either. It’s not like I care about dks. Just saying that typical blizz balance throwing a few specs under the buss

[jolly sierra]

use blessing of sanctuary in stunned targets or to predict when u are about to be stunned

use freedom in another comp, u both will get it

[last jasper]

Ok, how bad it would be to spec outlaw with full sub gear?

[jolly sierra]

blessing of spellwarden is good af against magic lobbies

divine prot can be used in stun

[tribal badger]

full mastery? probably worse then crit but its not like u dont do any damage

all of outlaws secondaries except vers r basically a race to the bottom at this point

i think crit is better but i think secondaries other then vers kinda all are just really bad for outlaw

[last jasper]

30 crit 106 mast and 32 vers

[tribal badger]

so you'd probably do k

[jolly sierra]

lay of hands if u can in early moments, cuz dampening

[last jasper]

Sounds great.

[quaint cedar]

I'm scared for the pally buffs

[sharp sierra]

eviscerate nerfed by 10% omfg

[quaint cedar]

Going to be 10.0.7 all over again lol

[sharp sierra]

ill play echo build ig

echo feels not bad i think

hit like 240k

[jolly sierra]

if u are in a mirror w full physical damage try bopping ret burst cuz holystrike dmg

[sharp sierra]

and all plate classes nerfed their armor by 30% this is big one

[jolly sierra]

use sacrifice frequently in ur allies, to save them as another defensive CD

[waxen meteor]

lol last time we were like ok at least it’s the last nerf on sub

Now

Just delete rogue

[sharp sierra]

lol hi

[waxen meteor]

Outlaw got a hit on clothes too

[jolly sierra]

when u wanna use bubble and u are about to die dont hit the guy, cuz GCD so u lose ur timing in bubbling

[sharp sierra]

but its ok we have 1 more chance with echo build

[languid ravine]

whats the nerf panic about? last I checked Sub was top5 spec for 2 months straight

[halcyon timber]

f clothies

[last jasper]

Reddit/forums tears about sub is real

[waxen meteor]

Honestly I see no reason making armor type irrelevant

[languid ravine]

oh wait did Outlaw get collateral nerf? kek

[stoic spruce]

It also got bigger buff

Into plate

I can't wait to farm DKs.

[waxen meteor]

Set up vein to do ER dmg as a normal ret finisher

[last jasper]

And tickles him after with 100k evis 😂

[halcyon timber]

The plate classes all have increased armor talents in their trees as well no?
(paladin and warrior for sure)

dunno about death knights as I haven't read their stuff in a while

[waxen meteor]

But overall it’s a very bad design

[sharp sierra]

dont worry we can 1 shot ret soon

[waxen meteor]

The only reason of that change is to decrease work load of designers

So they don’t worry about one more attributes for dmgs

Less analysis

Take easy pass

That’s it

[halcyon timber]

wind wanker tab targeting people will still be a thing on accident

[waxen meteor]

I had to check if some dmg is too high for clothes but not much on plate?

Old days

My life is easy now

[halcyon timber]

going to be plate on plate crime and then they will buff them somehow

[jolly sierra]

last point

always fight in 20y as ret against another melees, u can kite and hit at same time cuz midrange ret rework

and is probably one of the strongest points as ret

[last jasper]

Im surprised dhs managed to evade any nerfs

[tribal badger]

outlaw already ate clothies

this just means we can scratch plate now

worthwhile tradeoff

[jolly sierra]

where did u watched that tuning lol

[safe cloak]

Should I only craft feet?

[sharp sierra]

i think nerf is okay if use mastery gears or play echo build..

[surreal barn]

Health pools increased too, will just have to wait and see

[tight adder]

hi

is there a beginner guide anywhere here for sub pvp

[steel scarab]

When do these armor changes go through?

[hybrid rapids]

Next reset

[safe cloak]

seems like there is one under pvp-faq.

[steel scarab]

I'm not sure if I'm happy about these changes or sad

Pretty sure I'm sad, since I 2v2 with a holy paladin

[grave basin]

Idk how any sub Rog is happy about this lol

Any hp/armour buffs are indirect nerfs to sub

That's ontop of 10% Evis nerf (again)

[gilded gulch]

sub hpal sounds mid

[steel scarab]

I'm assassination

[stoic spruce]

Not armor. Most of sub damage is bleeds/shadow dam on TOP of find weakness.

[surreal barn]

I see people playing the dampen card and going goremaw dust build as sub

[gilded gulch]

it impacts sub more

[surreal barn]

But could be wrong

[gilded gulch]

sin prob feels it less idk

2s a cap conq bracket

[surreal barn]

Sin will only feel it with blindside if you play it

And really blindside is just a good point builder

[gilded gulch]

last time i tried to 2s serious was with priests

hpals dont really do dam

[stoic spruce]

Huge outlaw stonks

[gilded gulch]

bfa with 3x indomitable justice was mildly funny

because any rsham/rdruid team we'd just garrote into kidney into half hoj and kill in opener

75% of the time

[steel scarab]

Yeah that's the problem I've been running into, I have to 100-0 my opponents because holy paladins do no damage

Which is really hard against a Discipline priest who is healing just as well as she is, while also doing decent damage

Fair and balanced

[gilded gulch]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

rogue priest is a duo as old as arena almost

XD

[steel scarab]

Doesn't it seem like completely common sense, from a game balance perspective, that if a class heals really well it should do garbage damage, and if a class can do good damage it should not be capable of healing really well?

Apparently this notion is lost on the developers

[gilded gulch]

we used to make teams hate us so much because my priest would just spam mc after every kidney

with full dots

and basically only allow them to play their char 1/4 of the game

[gilded gulch]

idk i dont play 2s, priest healing's downside has traditionally been they lose on mana

in exchange for being aggressive

[steel scarab]

Right but they recently nerfed paladin mana again

So we tend to lose on mana

[gilded gulch]

i havent checked recent healer mana balancing

[steel scarab]

I'm totally assuming part of this is because she isn't playing the paladin optimally, but still, playing at a mediocre level as a holy paladin, into any discipline/ x combo it's just an absolute nightmare

[gilded gulch]

most fun 2s for me is sub ww

just run around onedinking people

[steel scarab]

It is super bizarre to me that Blizzard has such a raging red rocket for discipline priests in PvP, yet subtlety, which is supposed to be the rogue PvP specialization, just gets absolutely shit on patch after patch

Like, when are discipline and resto druids getting PvP nerfs?

[gilded gulch]

pallys are traditionally worse at being offensive and mostly bring big defensive cds

disc has had bad patches

[gilded gulch]

i mean early on sub kind of deserved it, being able to 100-0 a dh with pre blur and ironbark is not ok lmfao

yet i did it

[steel scarab]

I am absolutely in agreement with you, early sub was ridiculous and could be done by a monkey using a bunch of macros

But

[gilded gulch]

that's the nature of sub

you can either onetap people and the community cries

[steel scarab]

In its current state, sub feels like it has absolutely no power outside of its burst windows, and yet the burst windows keep getting nerfed

[gilded gulch]

or you're the mage's stunbot

sub doesnt need sustained damage

really goes against the spec's design

[steel scarab]

Right, but the burst windows have been nerfed so hard that at this point, an average 1500 player cannot play the spec successfully in Solo Shuffle

Which is just bonkers

[gilded gulch]

Yeah I mean it's not exactly easy to balance

[steel scarab]

Yet they keep nerfing sub because the genius 1% players crush people with it

[gilded gulch]

because sub in the hands of good players is nuts

same with mages

[steel scarab]

Right

[gilded gulch]

mages have the highest barrier to entry of any wizard in pvp imo

[steel scarab]

But my feeling is, they should not strive to balance the game around the people playing at 2500+ rating

[gilded gulch]

since you have to realize how central control is

[steel scarab]

It just makes the game miserable for the 99% of players playing below that level

[gilded gulch]

as opposed to some specs that can spam damage

and wait on damp

[steel scarab]

I also think dampening is bad design

[gilded gulch]

[steel scarab]

Making healers so obscenely powerful that entering an arena with the plan to just avoid fighting until dampening is stacked is terrible design

[gilded gulch]

personally i think sub you just need core understanding

like if a guy blows his trinket wall why are you still engaging

instead of running of

or you can cheap and go someone else

[gilded gulch]

people 100% die before late damp in df

[steel scarab]

They do, and yet there are arena comps that specifically try to just last until other healers are disproportionately affected by dampening

Example

Resto druids seem uniquely strong in late dampening games

Yet they're just as strong at healing in the beginning of arena matches as other healers

This is decisively poor game design

[gilded gulch]

So what’s your suggestion to fix

people already have complained damage is too high in df

only way you can not have dampening

damage too high, healers too weak

[surreal barn]

Mages are gonna be having fun too I think

At least in shuff

[gilded gulch]

warlocks getting an armor buff is sus

as all hell

[steel scarab]

Personally, I think one of the big issues with arena, and solo shuffle specifically, is that they center the whole thing around healers. You can't play without a healer, both teams need a healer, so the whole experience is totally centered around "can Blizzard get healers to queue for this?"

[gilded gulch]

idk they shouldnt balance around shuffle

[steel scarab]

And how do they achieve this? They buff the absolute hell out of healers, making them absolutely impossible to kill until they've exhausted like, 7 "cannot die" abilities

[gilded gulch]

you can try queueing no healer if you want

[steel scarab]

So that healers feel strong to play

But

[gilded gulch]

its alot more feasible to play no healer in 2s

tbh

[steel scarab]

While this incentivizes more people to heal, it still doesn't address that there are WAY more people interested in playing DPS classes than healing in PvP

And so the Crux of the issue becomes:

[gilded gulch]

theres also more specs

people act like this healer issue in shuffle wasnt predicted though

[steel scarab]

Queues for DPS are way longer than they are for healers, and so healers frequently will just get tilted and intentionally throw matches, or leave games

[gilded gulch]

theres a reason healers are scarce in rated content

[steel scarab]

I think solo shuffle should have the option to be healer-less

Just have there be a chance for a chaos all DPS queue

[gilded gulch]

so whichever classes have reset potential just auto win

now you have another problem

[steel scarab]

So DPS players have something to do while they're waiting for the healers to queue

Here is the other issue with healers being obscenely strong in pvp

[gilded gulch]

yeah its called playing 2s

[steel scarab]

Battlegrounds become awful

It takes like 5 people to kill 1 healer in a BG

[gilded gulch]

they always were

[steel scarab]

Not like this though, this is another level

[gilded gulch]

nah

bgs been a giant meme since forever

[steel scarab]

Healers are literally harder to kill in this expansion than they've ever been

[gilded gulch]

say that to the priest i 100-0ed last week

[steel scarab]

On top of that,

[gilded gulch]

granted i had zerker

[steel scarab]

Most people PvP to, you guessed it, KILL people

[gilded gulch]

ok im gonna keep it a buck

[steel scarab]

So when you take away the agency of players to score kills, PvP doesn't feel good to the DPS players

[gilded gulch]

if you cant 3v1 a healer

your dps suck

[steel scarab]

When's the last time you've been in a BG lol

[gilded gulch]

idk but i played sub ww last week

and we killed a disc in opener

died before he could get one heal off

[steel scarab]

Okay so you're admitting that you haven't been experiencing battlegrounds with the game in its current state

I'm telling you lad

It is awful

[gilded gulch]

how is that any different

from killing one in opener

with only 2 people

vs your implied cant kill with 5

[steel scarab]

Because it's very likely that you:

1. both used every single cooldown you had, and if he trinketed your initial cc and used a singular defensive, you would've absolutely lost the game. That's how all-or-nothing arena comps work

[fiery gorge]

Horde wins 80% of time in eu lol

[steel scarab]

2. you were probably playing against a player who had worse gear than you

[gilded gulch]

its not all or nothing but go on

sub ww can very easily reset

and do another 2-3 goes

[fiery gorge]

ww is great with sub

prolly my fav 2s comp after frost mage

[gilded gulch]

i miss the days of rogue mage when i could afk for 2mins waiting for cds

while my mage 1v2ed hpal melee teams

[fiery gorge]

I dont

[gilded gulch]

lmfaoooo

[steel scarab]

To be fair, Shadowy Duel is the main problem with subtlety. It's absolutely insane that the devs can't seem to grasp this

[fiery gorge]

too broken ?

[gilded gulch]

no in general dance having cdr

has been an issue since they redesigned sub in legion

[steel scarab]

Lol

[fiery gorge]

whats the issue with it

[steel scarab]

Just imagine subtlety without Shadowy Duel

[gilded gulch]

the fact you can do a go every stun dr

[fiery gorge]

I rarely use shadowy duel

so it would be me 😎

hardstuck negative winrate

[gilded gulch]

idk probably the healers who rage dm me

after i 100-0 their dps in duel

post bad trinket

[steel scarab]

Duel is 100% the issue with the spec, and it's so spectacularly obvious

[gilded gulch]

its one of the issues

not all

[steel scarab]

Blizzard: "let's nerf eviscerate by 10% though"

[fiery gorge]

lets nerf dk again

too op

[steel scarab]

It is absolutely the issue. Show me a top 50 subtlety rogue who doesn't use shadowy duel

A single one

[fiery gorge]

me

[gilded gulch]

i said its one issue

not all of them

[fiery gorge]

I am top 50 at 1400 rating

[languid ravine]

it might be all of them

[steel scarab]

@fiery gorge

It is literally all of the issues

[gilded gulch]

keep duel so i can troll sap other rogues in their own duel

ty blizz

[languid ravine]

because if you remove shadow duel you no longer have to balance around the fact that your cc chain is 5 seconds longer than everyone else

[steel scarab]

Delete Shadowy Duel and you can suddenly balance subtlety like any other spec

@languid ravine this guy gets it.

[languid ravine]

this guy gets it

lm ao

[gilded gulch]

i’ve said its probably one of the most problematic parts of the spec

but its not the only problem

[steel scarab]

It is the most problematic

It magnifies any other problems with the spec by 10

[gilded gulch]

dust is honestly a huge issue

too

[fiery gorge]

what is dust

[steel scarab]

It makes the best players 1000x better than the average players

[gilded gulch]

shadowdust

[steel scarab]

And it's the reason an average rogue cannot play Subtlety at 1500

[gilded gulch]

the fact you can blades every min with bargain and trinket is a 2min cd

[steel scarab]

Doesn't matter much if you can't remove your target from your opponents' healer

[gilded gulch]

average 1500 player thinks a 1s dr stun is a big brain play

[steel scarab]

Shadowy duel is the problem

[gilded gulch]

and then wonders why they cant kill healers

[steel scarab]

I'm not sure what you're referring to lol

[gilded gulch]

people cant play sub at 1500

because they expect to zug

and win

[steel scarab]

Right but like

[gilded gulch]

yeah let me continue hitting the guy

who has wall up

[steel scarab]

Idk how to get my point across lol

[gilded gulch]

sounds real smart

sub will never be shuffle noob friendly as a control+burst spec

unless its blatantly overtuned

like, i literally can feel second hand tilt watching some whaazz clips where he rages

over someone fucking up stuns

its way more annoying as sub

[steel scarab]

When you give a spec the potential to have a CC chain that's 5 seconds longer than every other class, you cannot balance it. The best people who make practically zero mistakes will almost always win with that spec, and yet the spec will feel AWFUL for the average sub player to play, and AWFUL for the average opponent to play against

Solution:

Delete Shadowy duel and balance the spec

[gilded gulch]

even if duel was gone sub's damage is still too high

honestly

[steel scarab]

OR MAYBE attach a big downside to Shadowy Duel. "While in Shadowy Duel, you and your targeted opponent take 50% less damage" or something

[fiery gorge]

I played on dk up til 1.8k rating and 90% sub rogues I encountered barely use shadowy duel or use it on me randomly while I am 50% hp and death strike the shit out of them after duel I get full hp free heal

1.8k is abysslow rating I guess

[gilded gulch]

yeah most rogues are bad

[halcyon timber]

Its an execute phase ability. One day people will aoe stun through it

[steel scarab]

Then you have to use Duel as an interrupt rather than a zug zug "I popped all my cooldowns and you die now and there's nothing your healer can do"

[gilded gulch]

the second sub cant 100-0 in a single kidney people will just migrate to assa

which is the pve spec

w key people and kidney off dr

[steel scarab]

@fiery gorge I mean for perspective, I'm 1600 solo shuffle with 8 games played

[gilded gulch]

real hard stuff tbh

[halcyon timber]

They aren’t ing us back to the old days of non cdr dance as we get “too close” to the other rogues and then pve crowd gets upset

[fiery gorge]

isnt outlaw the pve spec ?

[steel scarab]

So I don't think 1800 is probably that hard

[gilded gulch]

i mean assa just pves people in arena too

with the occasional cc

[fiery gorge]

I play mostly 2s with 200+ games

[halcyon timber]

There are no “pve specs” that’s the whole point reason they changed us in legion

[gilded gulch]

fun fact

[halcyon timber]

Attracted the pve kids and now we are stuck with this

[gilded gulch]

my first 2.1 i didnt even have a dr tracker

LMFAOOOOOO

[fiery gorge]

tbh I see much more assa rogues currently than sub in low ratings

in bgs as well

[gilded gulch]

assa so braindead you can do that

just pve people down

[steel scarab]

@fiery gorge right, because sub feels so horrible for an average rogue to play

Because it just does nothing outside its burst windows

[gilded gulch]

its called running

[fiery gorge]

yeah I love sub myself but I am hardstuck neg winrate

even though on dk less games positive winrate

[steel scarab]

Yeah, try running with 40 dots on you in a battleground

[gilded gulch]

why would i play bgs

willingly

[steel scarab]

That's why people don't play it

I mean some people enjoy those?

[fiery gorge]

I like bgs

[gilded gulch]

bgs are a miserable experience for melee

[steel scarab]

My fiance and I do them for fun

[gilded gulch]

if you arent a melee with aoe

[fiery gorge]

epic bgs maybe

[halcyon timber]

Well we aren’t ever going to cross too close to assassins or outlaw so best give that nonsense up instead of raising propaganda

[steel scarab]

As Subtlety, yes, theyre awful

Try it as assassination

[gilded gulch]

no they've always been awful as rogue

[steel scarab]

And iron wire

You'll have a much better time

[fiery gorge]

I love strategic bgs like warsong gulch, arathi basin

[gilded gulch]

anytime a random jimmy paladin does a 1/4 dr hoj

on someone

[fiery gorge]

there you can move solo or in small groups and do outlandish things

[gilded gulch]

i wnna break something

[fiery gorge]

solo capturing flags etc

[steel scarab]

Try assassination

You won't care

[fiery gorge]

But Ahsran or Blitz bgs that are small are just cancer

[steel scarab]

Because you have more in your kit than just stuns

[gilded gulch]

no you dont

assa you just run on drs too

[steel scarab]

???

[gilded gulch]

if you're playing correct

[steel scarab]

What

You can kill someone every single minute guaranteed in a BG with Kingsbane

[gilded gulch]

you have no reason to stay in and engage warriors/dks if you dont have to

when you have no cds

[gleaming pawn]

man chat is blowing up tonight, Wildsoul must be spouting his hardstuck 1600 wisdom and bad takes again

[steel scarab]

You can Iron Wire 6 people in an opener, silencing the whole team

[gilded gulch]

ok if you wanna stay in and pve people

maybe rogue isnt for you

:l

[steel scarab]

Is 8-0 solo shuffle hardstuck?

I mean I guess I'll check back when I play more

[fiery gorge]

the discussion before was mainly about shadowy duel being the biggest reason why sub rogue is OP in high ratings

[gleaming pawn]

lmao

because top rated rogues use it 100% of the time because it's so OP right

and people die to it at high ratings right

[gilded gulch]

even if you couldnt duel offensive

it'd still be 100% pick

for cc/peels

[gleaming pawn]

AWC is all just sub rogues killing people in duels

[steel scarab]

Tell me a singular PvP-only talent that provides more utility to a class than Shadowy Duel

I'll wait

[surreal barn]

How about that one awc where everyone was running around the one pillar in lordaeron until 80% damp

[steel scarab]

In all seriousness, it should've been a capstone choice node talent where you had to give something up to get it

It's insane that it's just a brainless 100% pick PvP talent

[gilded gulch]

it'd still be 100% pick

[steel scarab]

I agree -- but then at least you'd give something up to get it

[gilded gulch]

you technically do rn

[steel scarab]

Imagine if the current subtlety nerf, instead of a mind boggling "nerf eviscerate by 10%," it was instead, "all damage dealt by both parties in Shadowy Duel is decreased by 50%"

Imagine how much happier this would make the vast majority of the wow community

Instead, the eviscerate nerf just unnecessarily nerfs all subtlety rogues, even the incredibly average ones who never use Shadowy Duel, and this does nothing to the top tier ones

Who are killing you in the duel no matter what

[gilded gulch]

why should you balance the game around people who dont know what they're doing

[steel scarab]

Why can't you balance the game around both kinds of players?

[gilded gulch]

idk probably because you're suggesting to balance around people who dont read their spellbook

[steel scarab]

Players involved in Shadowy Duel now deal 50% less damage.

Now it's a defensive ability, or an ability that forces you to remove an opponent so your teammate can score a kill. It's no longer a brainless zug zug "pop all cooldowns and someone dies if they don't / can't trinket" ability

And now they can give subtlety more damage

[gilded gulch]

duel oneshots are not a thing

[steel scarab]

Win win

[gilded gulch]

outside of low rating

[gilded gulch]

like if you think sub damage isnt problematic even without duel idk

[sharp sierra]

is sub can 1 shot with echo build? if so,sub still useable fs

[steel scarab]

I think it's the combination of having access to two abilities (bomb and duel) that remove opponents from their healer/helper, plus good burst, plus more CC than any other class, is the problem with the spec

[gilded gulch]

yeah from modern dance design

[halcyon timber]

"problem with the spec". All classes gained control again isntead of the horse crap pruning in legion. People need to be creative with stuff.

Yeah duel could go away, same time people can still counter it now as well. Unless people can change the developers to go back to wod which our's said no already then we aren't changing. No sense in championing a cause like that.

[gilded gulch]

Idk why I bothered trying to argue with someone who thinks someone is dying to assa outside of stuns.

[steel scarab]

Very strange of you to imply I said something I never said

[gilded gulch]

you said assassination you dont care if randoms fuck up your DRs

which you 100% do

[jolly sierra]

god dammit i skipped a lot of messages here

think i did well

xdd

[tight adder]

hi

what's the cheap shot opener for sub?

ii kndia got the kidney one down

[gilded gulch]

nothing important

[jolly sierra]

nice

[tight adder]

why do people use crafted offhand/

[vague summit]

prob stats

[waxen meteor]

cause it's dagger and with mastery i guess

[fiery gorge]

because sub rogue needs like 80-90% mastery full geared

double dagger give crit

crafted or bloody token mace give mastery

[jolly bear]

how do you guys deal with double dh / warr / ret ?

like huge melee lobbies

[last jasper]

I’ve read few. Wow that’s hilarious

[languid ravine]

Zug Zug

and if that doesnt work try Loktar ogar

[fiery gorge]

disarm 40% hp shadowy duel burst

bait major defensive first

caster lobbys are much harder for me idk

warlock/mage/priest

[marsh ridge]

Well the morons keep nerfing sub due to %1 of the player base.

10% additional nerf to evis convinced me to move to other class

[sharp sierra]

i guess i found the other way to play sub well

use 2sets with shoulder,hands and change to mastery/vers gears to chest/ pants

[waxen coyote]

I don't understand rogues nerf

[sharp sierra]

so do i. 😦

[waxen coyote]

Alteady doing lowest dmg in arenas

Does anyone have demon hunter class discord?

[sharp sierra]

bro

rogue still can 1 shot them fs

cuz we got plate armor nerf by 30% this is big one

[marsh ridge]

Its the casters age

[jolly bear]

as if casters werent already annoying enough

[last jasper]

That’s how hit and run class works

[grave basin]

Surely you aren't using this as a metric for sub Rog ...

[sharp sierra]

22%crit 125%mast 29%vers
this build can 1shot all classes

2sets with engi all mastery helmet

[mortal jay]

when the crap is uncapped conquest.,,. and strife tokens for that matter

[last jasper]

This Tuesday

[mortal jay]

I keep messing up my gear.. switching out pieces and trying em.. changing my mind,, selling crap and then regretting it

i was following icy veins to replace gear with mastery gear...hellbloom/crafted.. felt like it wasnt worth the ilvl drop.. sold the gear and went back to full conquest and realized..mastery is all that matters. lol

[wintry dew]

Tell me you were trying outlaw, because if not, you fucked up big. Sub/assa have been mastery heavy since the start of the season, it never changed

Also you can refund your items

Once every 7 days

[mortal jay]

cant refund em after wearing em

and i knew mastery was important.. just thought ilvl drop wasnt worth

[wintry dew]

"sold the gear"

Talking about this

[mortal jay]

when i sold it,, it just gave me gold

[wintry dew]

Yes

You can manually go salvage the gear

Thru the website

[mortal jay]

hmm

[wintry dew]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/World-of-Warcraft-Item-Restoration&ved=2ahUKEwiArOj06OuDAxWvRaQEHVY4CM8QFnoECAwQBQ&usg=AOvVaw2YRcjvJaxPKpdy7McaQ7mD

Bad link

But that's it

Go there

Check if eu or na

Choose the items

You can do it once every 7 days (?)

[mortal jay]

ISHALL TRY this

sorry caps

i have caps lock keybound to evasion..

causes awkwardness 🙂

found it

tanks!

[wintry dew]

Cheers

[thick dagger]

Just 2 set worth it tho?

[sharp sierra]

will be best

only high mastery can cover the nerf

dps to 482ilvl monk in arena
non crit 163k= crit 245k
if nerf 10%= 220k= same as now with 4sets

and also this build can get more 10%mastery so it can cover the stamina buffs

[sharp sierra]

22crit/117mast/31vers/2sets
this is what i wanna tell you guys
the enemy rogue is 487ilvl
last eviscerate have been effected by cheat death
so now we dont care about nerf cuz we can still 1 shot them all

[jolly sierra]

where did u watched ret buffs?

im reading notes and doesnt say anything

[last jasper]

Pve section

[last jasper]

Are these numbers including tea buff? Mastery I mean. If not than it’s pointless

[jolly sierra]

oh fuck fr just noticed it, maybe is because i woke a little time ago

yeah ret straight S tier

time to push

[last jasper]

Lock ret dru is coming for us 😂

[thick dagger]

Better question to ask is this mastery % with full sockets ?

[twin burrow]

is sub dead wtf are these pvp changes

[twin burrow]

not a bad idea at all

[wary moss]

The unholy nerfs are really bumming me out... our damage will be fine. But we are gonna be like paper after this armor change against physical damage classes

[twin burrow]

is 10% stamina more or less then 10% max hp lol

[surreal barn]

Tuesday imma play sub in shuffle for the first time this season

The goal will be do to as little damage as possible and win

[sharp sierra]

wtym? why it is pointless?

if u talking about secondary stats cap, thistle tea can ignore the cap over 126%

we can get 126% from gears stat. but some kinda spells can ignore the cap
ex) rust, thistle tea (increasing stats by percent)

Note that this limit only affects stats received from rating, so you will still get benefits from effects that give flat % increases, like Bloodlust/ Heroism, even when maxed out at 126% haste from gear ratings.

from wowhead

[sharp sierra]

not full sockets. my wrist doesnt.

[thick dagger]

Ahh kk if I ran that I wouldn’t have head or wrists so I was wondering

[waxen kite]

for sub pvp should I start getting the tier set with conquest before getting weapons?
currently running honor gear + some crafted pieces

[spring bough]

Locks gonna be standing middle of map like tanks lmao

[surreal barn]

I hope there are as many MM hunters as there are locks

[spring bough]

Are we about to have a week of utter ret domination again too?

It wasn’t fun the first time 😭

[nova viper]

Eviscerate damage reduced by 10% in PvP Combat.

crap class

time to change

[spring bough]

Time for all yall sub players to find out Outlaw >>>>>>>>

Resto shams having a 12.5% armor reduction means I’m gonna slam them every single lobby LOL

[stoic spruce]

No, they'll get it nerfed.

Also, I find it funny how this is a net positive for outlaw

So I'm happy

[spring bough]

i cant wait to get 100k plus BTEs on plate now lol

[stoic spruce]

Bow to your Outlaw overlord

This is what a REAL sustain spec looks like

[wary moss]

Fuck it, I'll give it a shot

[stoic spruce]

Unholy wishes it was outlaw

Imagine having 2 different design philosophies in the same game 💀

[elfin oasis]

yo these changes live or next patch

[wary moss]

I haven't played combat since like cata

[wary moss]

Tuesday

[elfin oasis]

ty

[languid ravine]

I wish every spec was like Frost mage:
-Every button makes sense and has its place
-insane combos and playmakers
-high mobility but meaningful positioning
-rewarding, but mistakes dont instantly lose you the game (unless you die to a 300k rising sun kick)
-If you get rekt it is almost always your own fault
-intuitive and easy to learn, but also a lot of depth under the surface

meanwhile Rogue; if you get disarmed during dance you might as well uninstall

[chrome schooner]

Mastery does not follow these rules

For Mastery you don't count in % but in Mastery points, and how many % is one Mastery Point is different for all specs

For Sub it's around 2.5% for 1 Mastery Point

So you can go much higher than what your table displayed, and the DRs hit much later

[spring bough]

yall wanna see a straight up murder? lmao 100% to 0% in less than 4 seconds.... i only cast BTE once it went that fast

[red citrus]

whats a good solo shuffle talent build for sin

[waxen meteor]

weak sauce

[last jasper]

Clearly evis is a problem

[sharp sierra]

sounds good

[last jasper]

I mean, trying to squish dam from evis.

Just drop 4set. And take er with goremaw

Or just spec into outlaw 😂

[spring bough]

I wish we could crit like that lol

[plucky sage]

how do we get tier pieces, do i have to use catalyst on conquest gear or can we get tier pieces as rewards for rating or in vault?

òh nvm, I have 8! so I don't have to save them

[soft shell]

I would honestly love to go back to the goremaw playstyle

[safe cloak]

is there a way to target a player and not their pets by using a keybing? I use target nearest enemy player and I still lock on pets from time to time

[sharp sierra]

kalvish said goremaw and echo with rotten sucks and it makes worse dps than before

[jolly bear]

so we cant use goremaw or the rotten anymore? wtf is this new sepsis build i havent really played rogue pvp since week 2

should i just go assassination? lmao

[gleaming pawn]

nope gotta go Outlaw

[jolly bear]

2 much work to change gear completely and get new conq weps

[chrome schooner]

It's uncapped in a few days though

Just by playing you'll get enough

[safe cloak]

Should I use my 4 set peice in pvp. instead of 476 gear?

[mortal jay]

mastery

mastery over 4 set

[safe cloak]

should I keep 2 set?

[mortal jay]

you can get mastery on 2 of your set pieces

[safe cloak]

as an enchant?

[mortal jay]

lol.. no.. as the default stats

[safe cloak]

mb.....

[mortal jay]

mastery over everything. but 2 set should be doable while getting as many crafted and hellbloom to account for mastery stats

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pvp-stat-priority-gear-and-trinkets

clwgrips and shoulders for 2 set

[safe cloak]

ok ty 🙂

havent gotten shoulders yet, but im getting there

[mortal jay]

wait

what spec

[safe cloak]

sub

[mortal jay]

i know nothing

lol

prettttyy sure sub is mastery heavy too though

check with one of the smart sub people

i am assass

link i gave was assass

[safe cloak]

this should be the bis list

but I dont have max lvl gear, so wanted to know what to give priority

[mortal jay]

again. link i gave was assass

[safe cloak]

ok

this should be sub bis list though

[mortal jay]

but yeah.. wait for one of the sub spec guys for an answer

i have never played sub a day in my life. lol

[safe cloak]

XD

[mortal jay]

dont feel bad though, I kept trying items, then changing my mind and reselling them because I underestimated the importance of mastery.. wanted 4 set.. wanted ilvl.. realized mastery is all that matters and stuck with a half and half set of gear and capped out on hellbloom tokens, conquest, and everything else

i'm up to 65 mastery.. gotta wait for uncap to fix my gear 😦

[safe cloak]

with my pve build I have 105% mastery. why is that not better then?

and I know pvp should be better, but just trying to learn here

[mortal jay]

gotta have at least 30 percent vers

after that vers not as important

but

[safe cloak]

aaah ok

[mortal jay]

know nothing bout sub, but with assass.. my damage comes from my bleeds/poisons. mastery exclusively increases that.

from a 1 minute ish. arena skirmish https://gyazo.com/eb5b8161e0ec140162ff7b1870e67fe4

mutilate contributes little .. compared to gazrrote/rupture/bleeds etc

someday when I'm feeling not quite so stupid, I'll try sub

[safe cloak]

alot of my damage comes from finishers, so mastery is good.

but do you know what 489 peice I should buy first? Like which slot is the most impactful?

[mortal jay]

not for sub. I would get someone with expertise thhere to answer

[safe cloak]

ok

ty for giving me insight, with the mastery and vers thing 🙂

[mortal jay]

YW.. for whatever it was worth 🙂 i'm still learning too

take anything an 1800 rogue says with a grain of salt

[safe cloak]

🙂

[jolly bear]

how do I Assassination?

[mortal jay]

sap the healer, cheap > garrote, the off target, step to your kill target, garrote, rupture, deathmark, mutilate, kidney, smoke bomb, shadow dance : thistle tea : shiv : kingsbane.

then wait till you can do it again 🙂

[jolly bear]

you dance + tea before kingsbane?

[mortal jay]

both dance and tea increase the initial hits damage. yes.

kingsbane isnt the one shot it used to be, but 280k is an average crit for me on a burst in shuffle .

[jolly bear]

oh so there's no point in trying to save the mastery/dmg spikes for the second half of it

[mortal jay]

you have 3 stacks of tea, and two shivs

usually.. if my target aint dead by then, I'll reapply shiv if its gonna drop before kingsbane drops

[surreal barn]

Pretty good summary tbh

Only thing I’d add is waiting to use the kingsbane as more of an execute when they are lower

Don’t have to but it’s nice when it happens

[mortal jay]

keep in mind. I'm garbage.. if I knew what I was doing...i wouldnt be in the dirt leagues

[surreal barn]

Assa isn’t like super easy rn though either

[jolly bear]

my problem isnt killing its not dying

[mortal jay]

and the above is "perfect world " scenario.. usually its more like.. get thrown out of stealth by hunter, have to give up the sap, go triple garrote instead, misclick the wrong person and deathmark the rogue who instantly cloaks it, and when I wait for my next go to dance shiv kingsbane, get stunned as soon as I dance and my target runs away, then i'm stuck kingsbaning someone else, or using it outside of burst.then i die

[jolly bear]

i have only used sin in like 2 shuffles but i got 2k m+ score on it

[jolly bear]

yeah that sounds about right for any rogue lmao

[surreal barn]

What’s your damage profile look like at the end of the match

[jolly bear]

I'm also in the rat leagues dw fam

[mortal jay]

i've gotten into a bad habit of sprinting in and trying to rush into the sap. because my teammates refuse to give me the chance

[surreal barn]

lol what do you consider rat leagues

[mortal jay]

i have linked blackjack in chat before a match starts.. and my paladin still throws a hammer at the healer before i can sap him

[surreal barn]

Cause I’m still having to do that at 2k

[mortal jay]

on the bright side, pallies, warriors, dks are being deleted from pvp tuesday 🙂

[jolly bear]

yeah and they making warlocks immortal

no nerfs to hunters

ggez

[jolly bear]

anything below 2k lol and the highest i been is 1800 however ive only played 1 season of pvp and it was df s2

before that i only pve'd

[surreal barn]

Ran 4 shuffles today. A rogue in each one lol, and the last had assa/sub/outlaw/WW

Miserable

[mortal jay]

i just switched to monk healer, kidneyd, switched back to a dk and bursted and he died!! i did a rogue thing!

[jolly bear]

the mw is a jackass then

[mortal jay]

HE trinketed a cheap cause he was stuck in warrior spinny earlier

[jolly bear]

idc how much they cry and complain healers are op and the most entitled people ive ever seen in a video game lmao pvp and pve

[surreal barn]

Let them cry and give them what they want I could care less… just keep them queues down lol

[jolly bear]

yeah too bad they cry and complain and still dont queue up

[safe cloak]

At what ilvl should I start playing ranked?

[jolly bear]

its not about ilvl its about how comfortable you are

[safe cloak]

playing vs a full 489 as a 476 makes no difference?

[jolly bear]

it does but the skill disparity is way more of a factor than the ilvl

[waxen meteor]

Then I guess the first thing you know is there’s no answer for question like how to assassination

1800 is not bad at all

So you know pvp is not only about yourself

Is about yourself and your teammates vs the sum of the other side

Sometimes it might be best time for pve rotation burst but if enemy threw all CDs we need to change plan

[jolly bear]

fr

pve ia predictable you just learn what does what and stand here at X time and thts it

pvp you need to adapt by the second

[waxen meteor]

Yeah and pvp you need to make decisions based on all ‘random situations’ in pve

[mortal jay]

someone asked.. this is a 6 round solo https://gyazo.com/a3514206a4ad471eac975c061f7b03cc

[jolly bear]

why tf is your internal bleeding so high

[mortal jay]

against mostly melee who were dodging /blocking a lot of my crap

i multi bleed

i will prioritize rupturing an off target over envenoming a curret target if off has no rupture on him

[jolly bear]

i didnt think a passive like that would do so much

i never use it lmao

i always do m+ as sin

so i use cuastic

[mortal jay]

from everything I've seen/read/guides etc.. internal bleeding is a not so optional thing in pvp