pvp

[waxen meteor]

Evasion works

[mortal jay]

i have tried feint + talent

[waxen meteor]

Cloak works with pvp talent

Feint with or without both works a bit

You can also step healer

Rogue and DH are comparatively cool against monk burst

[mortal jay]

maybe YOU can. ww = auto death for me.. my character is bugged 😦

[waxen meteor]

Also magic stun works even face stun

Like DH

Ok so in theory whenever monk fist warlock can face cast fear

[wintry dew]

in theory yes i believe so

[waxen meteor]

I think monk has some kinda buff that stacks the dmg

[wintry dew]

unless WW has some pvp talent or something that deflects spells if facing the enemy caster

[waxen meteor]

When they stack and fist yeah you gotta use something major

Or just step your own healer

I normally save one step against ww

[wary moss]

Their Mastery makes their damage increase for every attack that was different from the last

[waxen meteor]

Yeah their mastery equals to our sub ult talent

[wintry dew]

macabre

[waxen meteor]

I might try monk later this season

But I probably should play a ranged class as new trial

[wary moss]

Monk is so fun

[vocal surge]

It doesnt take much to earn conquest, 1 BG, skirm, eBG (optional), blitz, and brawl is a huge burst of daily conquest before setting foot into the arena and when you are climbing the arena, gear diff wont happen until you reach the current top% which even then should spread out evenly overtime. if you missed out on the first week or two, the early 1000 rating should be free conquest in 2s and 3s. If people are fully geared up by then its just the same as gearing an alt at the end of the season through ranked games

[mortal jay]

my biggest problems are monk spinny punchy, double melee.. usually double war and my bad positioning got me stuck in two spinny stabbys.. and balance because I wasted cloak and get stuck in their starbeam thingie

[steel scarab]

@vocal surge ??? gear difference happened to me immediately this season. I queued up in the beginning of the season and was put against people with full honor gear

[vocal surge]

we're talking at the start of a season with uncapped conquest

oh wait

[mortal jay]

and the fact that rets are now a ranged class

[vocal surge]

lol

If your crying about people fully geared

[steel scarab]

But theoretically, if there was no conquest* cap, I could queue with no rating with absolutely no PvP gear and be placed against someone who has never queued arena this season who grinded FULL conquest gear.

That's very obviously a terrible system.

[vocal surge]

and you missed out on a season

this is concerning

[steel scarab]

Is it hard to imagine someone who didn't PvP for a full season because they wanted to focus on Keystone Master instead?

Not everyone has time to do everything in this game.

[vocal surge]

Had to get off my phone for this

I skipped all of S2

and went into S3 w. S1 gear

on my main and came out really geared (full honor) in just 2hrs

[steel scarab]

I had zero PvP gear this expansion. Because we got KSM s1 and s2

[vocal surge]

Doesn't matter if you dont have PvP gear

theres an inbuilt system for PvP where if you're under a certain ilvl threshold, they boost your ilvl

[steel scarab]

???? Dude. I went into season 3 with 445 item level. A person who had full 476 honor gear obviously had way more HP than I did.

[vocal surge]

Yeah

[lucid citrus]

I don’t see how it’s the systems fault when you focused to do PVE instead of PVP?

[vocal surge]

and I went into Season 3 with ilvl 424

and fully geared out in 476 by the end of it

[waxen meteor]

Yeah monk is quite good in melee lobby

Was DH dominating now it’s WW

[mortal jay]

and i'm quite bad 🙂

[vocal surge]

also getting PvP gear is far less time consuming than farming PvE gear

[mortal jay]

but I hit 1800 this season

[vocal surge]

and this is coming from someone who have done both KSM and Duelist in a season

[mortal jay]

i'm happy

[vocal surge]

logging in for 2hrs a day and getting bored

[mortal jay]

now nobody can say !!! ahahaha you suck.. you cant even get 1800!

[steel scarab]

It's NOT the system's fault. I'm explaining that the capped honor/conquest system is good. Because it made it so I had 450,000 hp facing people with 600,000 hp, instead of me with 450,000 hp facing people with 900,000 hp.

[mortal jay]

they have to say... ahahaha you suck.. you cant even get 2100!

[waxen meteor]

It takes not only yourself to win melee lobby sometimes you just lose

[steel scarab]

Capped currency is a very good thing.

[mortal jay]

and that just doesnt have the same sting

[steel scarab]

Not everybody has time to live and breathe this game

[waxen meteor]

I like current conquest cap of a week and craft cap

[steel scarab]

^

[vocal surge]

So let me get this straight

You're complaining uncapped is more time consuming than capped conquest

when PvP gear can be directly bought

[steel scarab]

What?

[vocal surge]

Meanwhile PvE M+ gearing and climbing is less time consuming especially with high keys

and you have to deal with RNG rolls on the chest at the end

and this is including if you clear the key without people throwing

This sounds backwards imo

[stoic spruce]

Not really, back before pvp ilvl wasn't scaled, sure. But there's not a strong argument for it these days.

[steel scarab]

I mean the TLDR here is

PvP gearing shouldn't even be a thing. Ideally, we would queue up with equal gear and see who's better. Not who spent more time grinding bloody token gear.

[waxen meteor]

I think you misunderstanding

[steel scarab]

But the system that's in place, at least, doesn't leave casuals in the dust.

If the season started with uncapped honor and conquest, it would be AWFUL for people who only have a few hours a week to play.

[vocal surge]

Bloody Token gear is easy to grind, just do WQ in Warmode and wait for reset, you're finishing check marks for PvE while doing so and theres 2 resets for the zone its on since the quest to get Trophy of Strife is a weekly

[stoic spruce]

It wouldn't matter because pvp gear scales up

[vocal surge]

Dont have to sit in a zone gy camping people for the sparks ya know

[steel scarab]

Not everyone. Has time. To grind world quests for PvP gear.

Some people want to log on, play arena for a few hours, and be done

[waxen meteor]

I believe what James is saying is that if there’s no cap, you are forced to play huge amount of games

[stoic spruce]

And then they have to stop because they hit conquest cap

[waxen meteor]

Which I agree it’s a bit forced and time consuming

It’s not to compare with pve or sth

Even if it’s true that pve farm takes more time it doesn’t make pve right

IMO myth+ unlimited farm on same dungeon is toxic

[steel scarab]

With the system that is currently in place, my gf and I have been able to comfortably acrue a full set of 483 and 489 gear by only playing a few hours a week. And when we lose in arena, it feels like we are losing because we were outplayed, not because we are out geared. And this is EXACTLY how arena should feel.

[vocal surge]

Just do BGs, Skirms, Brawls, and Blitz daily and you should be fine because with the current season, PvE gear can 100% substitute PvP gear and even has equal power with high enough keys to Conquest gear

[waxen meteor]

The game supposed to be fun over a task

[steel scarab]

Pirate

[waxen meteor]

People will not settle with that

[vocal surge]

With Conquest cap, PvE gear is far stronger than PvP gear in the first 3 weeks

[waxen meteor]

You will not sleep and finish all gear in 2 days

[steel scarab]

"just do x y and z DAILY" shows me you play the game way more than the average human.

Not everybody plays every day.

[waxen meteor]

Then you don’t do game

[stoic spruce]

With uncapped conquest, you can have this but a lot sooner in the season.

[steel scarab]

We have lives outside the game

[vocal surge]

So do I

[waxen meteor]

This is also opposite of also what official wants people to do

[steel scarab]

Not everyone can play wow every single day

[vocal surge]

I study 8hrs daily for College and login 2hrs to go get conquest and log off

[steel scarab]

You're in college

I'm 39 years old

[vocal surge]

and then spend any extra time doing something productive (even if it means going sleep deprived)

[steel scarab]

With a family

And a job

[stoic spruce]

Being in college means he doesn't have a life lol

[vocal surge]

and even before I quit my job, I did 8 - 16hr shifts, college, and still maintained conquest cap

[stoic spruce]

Got it

[waxen meteor]

Current conquest cap is easy that’s true

[steel scarab]

It's different when you're an adult, many people simply cannot commit to playing wow every day

[waxen meteor]

It’s debatable to make cap more than 550 a week

But I don’t think going unlimited is good

Nor it will ever happen

It’s against game interests and make people exhausted

[stoic spruce]

I can't think of a single con that outweighs a single pro if it were uncapped at start

[waxen meteor]

If you think about online game that is based on subscription

The fundamental thing is get to something in front of you every day or every week to make you chase for it

[steel scarab]

I've told you one, Popo

[stoic spruce]

And I gave you a rebuttal

[steel scarab]

Adults with jobs and kids absolutely would not do arena. Arena participation is already very low. Uncapped conquest at the start of the season = basically every adult who can't grind out full conquest gear early on simply will quit doing Arena. Full stop

Longer queues for people like you

Because you have fewer opponents

It's very simple to understand

Not sure why you're not grasping this

[stoic spruce]

Because it's wrong

[steel scarab]

It's objectively right

[stoic spruce]

You hit conquest cap for the week, you stop queuing. It's that simple.

[vocal surge]

That'd be wrong actually

[steel scarab]

Dude we're talking about if the season started with conquest UNCAPPED

[vocal surge]

People that have more hours would slam arenas onto alts which will keep the early season lasting longer

not to mention the start of the season is always busy

[stoic spruce]

And the people that don't? They still stoo queuing.

[steel scarab]

That literally means people who have more free time to grind gear will simply win way way more games.

I'm not talking about solo queue. I only queue with my gf

[vocal surge]

That doesn't mean they'll win a ton of rating and reach 2400 on the first day

[stoic spruce]

Yes. You'd get your gear and push instead of 3-4 arenas a week.

[steel scarab]

I didn't say that. I'm saying: people don't like playing against people who have an inherent, unfair advantage

Losing to a team that has twice your HP pool doesn't feel good, it feels stupid

Thus

[stoic spruce]

Except that doesn't happen anymore

[steel scarab]

Uncapped conquest at the start of a season is a terrible system

[waxen meteor]

It’s easy. When you can farm unlimited, you will try to finish all you can as soon as you can , then believe it or not, your willingness to log in again will be significantly lower

[cosmic thistle]

can eevry necklace have 3 sockets?

[steel scarab]

Yes

[vocal surge]

ye

[waxen meteor]

And you will feel losing if you are left behind

[cosmic thistle]

ok

[waxen meteor]

Next week we can have crafted neck

[steel scarab]

Speaking of being casual

I did not realize you could craft PvP pieces? Besides the 2 embellishments? Is that true?

[stoic spruce]

Then you are going to stop regardless, unlike someone who has multiple alts. Which means it wouldn't really matter.

[stoic spruce]

Yeah you can craft your whole set

[waxen meteor]

Even today in this channel lots just stop at 1800

[steel scarab]

How do you do this?

[waxen meteor]

You reach a reachable goal and you take a break

Nature of human

[stoic spruce]

Buy the tokens at the vendor

[waxen meteor]

Doesn’t apply to all

But works for most

[steel scarab]

Tarny you definitely get it lol

Here's an example. My gf and I played about 30 games this week

[waxen meteor]

Yeah you need to spend conquest, same amount though

[steel scarab]

We climbed like 300 rating, from 1200 to 1500, we did very well

I think we hit 1550

[waxen meteor]

It’s only good for classes like rogue and specs that are hardly targeted

[steel scarab]

Feeling very good

[stoic spruce]

So someone gets to 1800 week one vs week 27 and that's somehow different?

[steel scarab]

Then we lost a bunch, dropped to like 1510

Then we gave up for the week

It's just natural, and some people experience burnout faster than others

Believe me, if it was just me, I'd have played 150 games

But she is my limiting factor

She gets overwhelmed

[stoic spruce]

I know that feeling >.>

My gf plays hpal and loves 2s

[vocal surge]

Ooof

[steel scarab]

That's what she is! Holy pal

[stoic spruce]

That's funny lol

Only likes 2s?

[steel scarab]

She likes it but arenas stress her out IMMENSELY

We have only done a few 3v3s with a real life friend, we were doing okay, but it was early season when we only had honor gear

[stoic spruce]

Every caster lobby is an insta lose because "I didn't have time to bubble"

[waxen meteor]

Believe it or not, inflation is one way to get less people to 1800 and drop

[stoic spruce]

Which tbf, she probably wouldn't make it even with bubble lol

[waxen meteor]

If I run this game I would do the same in a different way probably

[steel scarab]

Yeah gotta be careful of being silenced during a holy cast

I had to explain that to her

[vocal surge]

Ironically when I played paladin 1 season

I had blues and greens ilvl 300s

[steel scarab]

I think they should add more awards. Like every 100 points you gain, get a fun cosmetic

I think that would keep people pushing

Instead of hitting 1800 and quitting

[vocal surge]

climbed to 1600 before getting any honor pieces or conq gear

[stoic spruce]

Don't say that. The boomers will get mad lol

[vocal surge]

while the matchups we had were from people in full purples

[steel scarab]

Or even better, a mount or cosmetic set you get just from total games played. That could be something to keep people queueing

Then they feel they're working toward a goal without even having to win

[waxen meteor]

Well you do get pvp mount nowadays for games played )

[stoic spruce]

They should inject enough inflation to kill a horse during fated season. Just to see what happens.

[vocal surge]

oh no lol

rn all thats left for me this season is Elite and Gladiator in 3s

[waxen meteor]

S1 was quite inflated man

[vocal surge]

kinda want more rewards to be added in PvP

[stoic spruce]

What, 3 sets, a mount, and some other stuff isn't enough? Man you pvpers always complain.

Jokes btw

[waxen meteor]

I want no team shared DR

[stoic spruce]

Lol troooo

[cosmic thistle]

where can i get splinterd spark?

[waxen meteor]

Or remove those fucking 2 sec stuns

[plush hemlock]

How important is mettle for ass? Is it worth crafting just for pvp instead of my toxic thorns?

[stoic spruce]

I'm not exactly sure what that helped because the game was worse off after the cc nerfs.

[vocal surge]

I was honestly thinking they could add tokens to buy the old elite sets since no one uses em anymore

and no, we're not adding Glad Mounts, Tabards, or Illusions on that, just elite sets / weapons

[stoic spruce]

Tabards are more rare than the weapons/sets tho

[vocal surge]

ye

[stoic spruce]

Oh I see

[vocal surge]

but its a hard to earn reward alongside the glad mounts

same with illusions

[steel scarab]

They definitely could add some more fun cosmetics that could be bought with honor

Would get a lot more people queueing for battlegrounds

Which then might get them doing Arenas if they realize PvP can be fun

[vocal surge]

ye

[steel scarab]

I also think

Now

Don't burn me at the stake for this

But

Balancing around the top of the ladder is necessary, of course

But

The balance team needs to look at the middle of the ladder too

Like

If they notice a trend

Like for example

Ret paladins in Shadowlands, iirc, were completely brainless to play and get like 1800ish rating with

And demon hunters early this season

They might not be the best of the best at the top of the ladder, but like

When people are average players and one single class is just smashing everyone

That isn't super fun either

[vocal surge]

I think its best they look at the class trends because people rerolling onto a meta class and losing a lot of games skews the statistics

[steel scarab]

Absolutely true

[vocal surge]

and its skewed really badly to the point that it could create the warlock situation all over again

[steel scarab]

What's the warlock situation?

[vocal surge]

warlocks being brain dead easy and op af

[steel scarab]

Ahh

[vocal surge]

which was the case for all of dragonflight pvp

dying to demo pets was not fun in S1

or getting slammed by 2 ability casts from 100 to 25

and this isnt chaos bolt im talking about

[steel scarab]

Yeah I don't think having easy to play zug zug classes in PvP is good design. Like I totally understand making some classes easier than others. Here's an example: fury warrior is objectively easier to play than Subtlety rogue currently, right

[vocal surge]

it was 2 different abilities

[steel scarab]

But they nerfed subtlety pretty bad, to the point where I, an average player, absolutely cannot kill people in 2v2 anymore

[vocal surge]

yee

[steel scarab]

I don't think they should nerf fragile, hard to play specs into the ground just because the tippy top of the ladder is doing well with them

Because then the average player just absolutely cannot do anything with the spec

[vocal surge]

Considering Ian's track record

I doubt that

WoD incident if you're wondering

[steel scarab]

Who is Ian

[vocal surge]

one of the lead devs of WoW

[steel scarab]

I see

[stoic spruce]

I bet crackshot gets removed or at least gets some work done on it next expac.

[vocal surge]

Demo Lock in WoD was one of the hardest specs to play and it was rewarding but the wow devs went fun police on it

because everyone enjoyed demo over aff and destro

[stoic spruce]

"We don't want you playing demo"

[wintry dew]

yes

exactly what they said

"" we don't want you having fun please quit demo, or better, we gonna nerf them to oblivion so you don't play them ""

xD

[stoic spruce]

Lol

[steel scarab]

I do think when people are outstanding players using a hard spec, they deserve to win more

[stoic spruce]

The guy next to Ion looked at him like "I can't believe you actually said that"

[vocal surge]

and if your wondering about competency, S1 interview between that top guild and Ian

[steel scarab]

Because they need to look at average players too

It's not fun playing subtlety as an average player against an average warrior and just getting completely stomped

[vocal surge]

Top guild noted an exponential dps growth with each ilvl but Ian said it was a 1% growth

[steel scarab]

They need to remember the majority of the playerbase isn't the top 0.01%

[vocal surge]

and to give context to how true the top guild was

If you hit Rival in S1 of SL and upgraded your gear

unless there was someone who was duelist in the BG, you were a literal god

you never died at all

even worse on a meta spec

[steel scarab]

That's horrible balance

[vocal surge]

yeah

and the devs denied that ilvl was exponential growth

when you could look at pvp and see that clear as day

and especially in PvE

[cosmic thistle]

whats the reset timer for the cc cooldownds?

[stoic spruce]

They were notoriously mean to the pvp devs too btw

[vocal surge]

yup

the last pvp dev quit if I recall

[stoic spruce]

18 seconds

[cosmic thistle]

ty

[stoic spruce]

Yw

[stoic spruce]

Yeah now we have class devs also working on pvp?

Who have never stepped foot in arena with the class they develope

Bro this reminds me

I thought it was SO funny how there's a feedback thread for the new hero talents for DK but they've been ignoring feedback all expac.

I laughed irl

Some might say

Lol

[steel scarab]

They should hire some players who focus on PVP as advisors

[vocal surge]

But ye, the confident I have for Blizz to make the right call rn is 0

[fiery gorge]

Just play outlaw or assa then

[jolly sierra]

yes, but will cancel the fists

BUT

he can do spinning crane kick and RSK at same time

ww has one of the best masteries overall

literal is flat increased dmg for every non repeated ability

[vocal surge]

Time to finish this mission and campaign to get back to WoW

[stoic spruce]

Omg Panda hi

[cosmic thistle]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/character/eu/argent-dawn/Mélith

what should i get

have 700 conquest ready

[lucid citrus]

Do you have an extra spark to use?

If so, craft another ring

[last jasper]

Where do u get stuff to craft main stat gem?

[jolly sierra]

hewwo

[cosmic thistle]

U can only get 1 spark a week right?

No mean spark of dream u need 2 and u can only get 1 a week if iam nlr wrong

[waxen meteor]

you get one half per week

[lucid citrus]

You should be able to craft 4 crafted pieces today

[last jasper]

Huh? You sure? Cuz I only got first half today

[cosmic thistle]

Only have 1

[last jasper]

I got 3 crafted and a half “. 🫠

[cosmic thistle]

Where can i get spark is their any quest i have 1 i got today

[waxen meteor]

4.5

[last jasper]

sorry. I'm an idiot. you right

[shadow creek]

PvP is absolutely missing incremental rewards. People collect mounts, titles, cosmetics, pets, achievements…all sort of rewards. If there were incremental rewards I think you would see a lot more participation overall. Ex: at 1k you get a title, at 1.2 you get a pet, at 1.5 you get a mount, every 100 over that you get to customize the mount, etc. WoW PvP is desperately missing a reward structure that incentivizes gameplay for the vast majority of the population.

Don’t just give people a reason to jump in, give them a reason to stay in

[stoic spruce]

now, lets talk about why people run M+ while it has less rewards than pvp

[waxen meteor]

TBH i will be fine to have a skirmish solo

[stoic spruce]

1.) you dont get hardstuck in M+

[waxen meteor]

even light rewarded

then sitting in the queue for 40 mins

[last jasper]

Me personally to laugh and have fun.

[surreal barn]

1000 world MS

[stoic spruce]

thats so true bestie

[waxen meteor]

a game should start when you are ready to play

[surreal barn]

Someone kill me now

[waxen meteor]

oce team?

[surreal barn]

Nah I’m just out here in tich

[vapid ledge]

This is prolly a dumb question but can you double socket the crafted rings? They already have one built in

[surreal barn]

It’s carrying over to arenas tho

[vapid ledge]

My vault was ass this week so prolly gonna cash in for sockets

[lucid citrus]

I don’t think you can double socket a ring

[surreal barn]

You cannot

[vapid ledge]

Can anything be double socketed?

[surreal barn]

Neck triple socketed

That’s it

[vapid ledge]

Oh well yeah

Aside from the neck LOL

[waxen meteor]

I will probably use craft neck for both rogue and dh

but i feel craft is useless for specs like ret/warlock etc.

[shadow creek]

Likely because the barrier to entry is far lower for M+, I suspect. More to the point, M+ is heavily promoted by Blizz and prioritized over other gameplay. It’s no secret that PvP is a tertiary consideration at best. Just look at where the PvP tabs sit on the forums; they’re literally at or near the bottom.

[waxen meteor]

you want more vers anyway

[lucid citrus]

Nothing else can be double socket

[stoic spruce]

we're in misc right now

[vapid ledge]

Also what is this thing it has avoidance?

[cosmic thistle]

Well i dont have a spark what u think i should get?

[waxen meteor]

lol what does avoidance even do

[last jasper]

Aoe spell reduction

[cosmic thistle]

Reduce aoe

[shadow creek]

I’m referring to the official forums, but yes, it’s definitely deprioritized here, as well

[last jasper]

wont work on arena, if Im not worng

[stoic spruce]

I was really adding to your point but yeah

[waxen meteor]

pvp can never be dead, imo, if there's no pvp, it's not a online game

[shadow creek]

Ah, apologies, I misunderstood

[stoic spruce]

is okay

[waxen meteor]

myth surely more friends friendly

[vapid ledge]

Those arent even on the Conq vendor tho lmao

I saw those and was like wtf

[waxen meteor]

there's no way anyone can deny that

[lucid citrus]

I would just hold onto your conquest since there’s nothing else you can really get

Or you can get conq gear for outlaw but that is entirely up to you

[stoic spruce]

yeah theyre RNG and disabled in rated pvp. Only enchants and gems work

[waxen meteor]

I just learned myth has no CD

i was litreally shocked

[stoic spruce]

myth?

[waxen meteor]

yeah no CD

you can do as many as you want a day, right?

[stoic spruce]

ohh

yeah

not 0s tho

[shadow creek]

If you’re using keys, yeah

[waxen meteor]

that's honestly crazy for me

nice another 30mins queue

if healer doesn't queue, create a fun mode without healer

[stoic spruce]

I think the shuffle aspect probably isnt the best idea

now that we have seen it in practice

[shadow creek]

Blitz seems promising, at least from what I’ve played so far

[last jasper]

main point is u usually want specific keys so u can get upgrade.

[waxen meteor]

My dream would be WoW Arena like Dota

You sit/mmr/game

And also you don't have to queue with a specific POSITION

[last jasper]

In dota u need to play as a support sometimes 😄

[waxen meteor]

yeah you play 5

but i don't think you have to queue as 5?

[last jasper]

If u want specific role, u need to farm it by playing as five

otherwise, no. Dont remember. Wasn't playing dota for a long time

[waxen meteor]

very nice, i am gonna close the game very soon before queue pops

--> exactly why you should play myth

[cosmic thistle]

is it worth getting the skill capped course?

[tired lagoon]

How do u get 3 enchants in the Verdant Gladiator's Amulet

[cosmic thistle]

u buy tiered medallion setting

3 of them need too be diffrent grades

[tired lagoon]

What are those xD

Thanks bro

[waxen meteor]

ok game poped right after i complained

[cosmic thistle]

np

[waxen meteor]

think was a game on twitch

[cosmic thistle]

would u buy the skilled cap course is it worth?

[waxen meteor]

Not in that lobby

[cosmic thistle]

wdym

[waxen meteor]

oh maybe i misunderstood what you asekd

[cosmic thistle]

i mean is it good does it really show u some good stuff?

[waxen meteor]

It's just one of the guys in the lobby streaming

Not sure if he is a known player or what

[cosmic thistle]

nah dude it was nothing lol

ahahahah

[waxen meteor]

yeah it was an easy game

[cosmic thistle]

nah bruh or on something

ur

[waxen meteor]

if warrior didn't just zugzug whole game, i would have exited 5-1

but anyway

[last jasper]

Why would he play warrior then

[steel scarab]

@shadow creek precisely right!

[cosmic thistle]

does poeple only use envenom on 4 combo pints?

[wintry dew]

yes

4/5

[cosmic thistle]

WHAAAAT

why

[wintry dew]

max-1 or above is the ideal dmg

otherwise wetnoodles

[cosmic thistle]

damn dint know this

[cosmic thistle]

thinkkign about getting the skill capped course is it good ?

[wintry dew]

Idk, never used it

[last jasper]

😂

[wintry dew]

I followed guys like shadenox, Evasion, palumor etc, learned a lot from them

over the years they are my go to learning visual guides

[cosmic thistle]

shadenox dosent say anything so its hard too understand really

[wintry dew]

he ... writes

he's a GOD because he writes whats happening in a black box

[cosmic thistle]

but evaison yha he is kinda good

[last jasper]

He recently uploaded 26 min pvp guide

[cosmic thistle]

already seen it

[wintry dew]

he literally writes whats fucking happening

you can just pause, read

[last jasper]

Pretty sure he uses rotation addon so u can see what is he doing

[wintry dew]

yeah on the bottom

literally below the blackbox

Again, i wanna sign a petition where Shadenox renames his main rogue to Chadenox

[last jasper]

Ppl here shared a ton of useful info. Skill capped won’t help if u don’t do the basics, like how to use spenders

[surreal barn]

Do gems stay if I upgrade a crafted pc

Or am I gonna have to redo this illimited diamond

[cosmic thistle]

i see ty

[last jasper]

We can have glad title in ss but not the mount right?

[brazen drift]

That's the same with every game though? Look at any game with progression, CoD, Valorant, Battlefield, hell even Minecraft if you want to be pedantic with it.
I would argue WoW is behind in this regard, same with inflation, same with MMR brackets and hell even BP shit.

[steel scarab]

@brazen drift Look at DOTA. Look at League of Legends. There are plenty of completely fair, skill-based games that operate solely upon player knowledge and skill and eliminate the need for a gameplay loop that revolves around, "Have you grinded for at least X hours? No? Then you lose to everyone who has played for at least X hours."

The more they balance the PvP and the more fun they make it, the more people who will organically play it.

The feedback loop of "you must do repetitive, mindless busy work before you can actually participate" is a terribly dated system that turns a lot of players away.

[wintry dew]

thats the new LoL, and still you gotta buy champs still. You used to have to buy runes xD

[last jasper]

same goes with wow arena. no gear wont help u if dont have the skill or knowledge

[steel scarab]

@last jasper gear helps when your opponent has twice your HP pool though. I mean, zoning in at 400k against someone with 1 million HP is an obvious lost cause. I don't care if you're a rank 1 gladiator, if there's a 600 thousand hp gap, you're not winning

[brazen drift]

I can understand the thought process behind it, but I still believe uncapped would be much healthier, and blizzard need to put some actual love into the game for other issues.

[last jasper]

The thing is, the r1 would still win if u have 600k more hp. (actually its less but nvm)

[steel scarab]

Absolutely untrue. Because the gear scales linearly with the HP, meaning the r1 would also have 40% less damage / healing

[last jasper]

well, first there is no 40% gap between honor and conq. Second, yes he would. Cuz skill > gear

[brazen drift]

With league you also have to grind for champions and so forth, which if MF, Yi or Lux is meta at the time is fine, but if they're nerfed to the ground and suddenly Sett, Yone or other 4800+ champions are meta, then you're at a disadvantage, and those who have them unlocked already may outshine.

Obviously not as drastic as that, but the comparison is still the same, all unlocked champions would be fair game and level playing field. But they have progression, play, you unlock champions, there's no limit on what you can earn, when you want to earn, etc. Should be the same for any game with progressional opportunities, wow should be no different in PvP respect.

[steel scarab]

@last jasper that's a pretty unhinged perspective. You really, seriously think two r1 gladiators wearing ilev 450 gear could beat two average players in 489 ilev gear?

They wouldn't have enough damage to kill them during burst windows, unless the average players were literally AFK lol

[last jasper]

honor gear is 476. And u can farm full honor like in a day on bgs

[steel scarab]

Right, but I was talking about a 400k HP discrepancy, not honor gear

And

If we agree that honor gear is basically a joke to obtain

Why not just make that the baseline?

You're kinda making my points for me lol

PvP does not need barriers to entry. Telling new PvP players that they need to suffer through a bunch of battleground losses in order to collect gear is not a way to attract new players.

[last jasper]

thats is literally the way it works rn

[last jasper]

Idk what 400k are u talking about. In pvp u start with honor.

[steel scarab]

Have you tried, as a DPS class, to fight a healer in a battleground who has 20 item levels on you?

That kind of experience is not attracting people to the game.

[last jasper]

You can’t participate in bg below 20 lvl gear

[brazen drift]

Fighting a healer in a BG solo is a dumb idea even if full geared.

They're designed to be able to survive lmao.

[steel scarab]

You have to really consider the experiences new players are having. They're queueing into battlegrounds, often facing people who have 20 item levels of gear on them. Healers are obscenely buff currently, able to survive with 4-5 undergeared people targeting them

Imagine playing 10-20 games of literally not being able to kill the healer that's keeping all your opponents alive

It's not attracting people to the game. I guarantee it

[brazen drift]

Imagine cc'ing them properly and managing cooldowns so they can't heal their opponents.

[steel scarab]

Solo shuffle is an amazing idea. But balancing all of PvP around healers simply because of solo shuffle is making battlegrounds awful for new players

[last jasper]

U can't enter a bg if u 20 lvl off

[steel scarab]

What

You can queue at 330

[last jasper]

no u dont

[steel scarab]

Ilev, it scales you to 470

You're still getting obliterated

[last jasper]

u need 474 to be able to q

[last jasper]

I'm not the one who says i lose cuz gear diff

[steel scarab]

Are you talking about solo shuffle or a regular battleground? Because I'm talking about a regular battleground.

[last jasper]

rated. Why would you care about random bgs

[steel scarab]

Are you unhinged? We're talking about the process new players experience when they start gathering PvP gear.

They don't jump right into rated. They do regular battlegrounds.

[last jasper]

fully geared players dont jump into random bgs too. In rare occasion like weekly quest, thats it

[steel scarab]

This is exactly the problem I constantly see when I bring up points about casuals and new players here. Most folks here are super hardcore and forget that 95% of the playerbase is NOT experiencing the game in the way everyone here is, PRECISELY because the new player experience in PvP is SO BAD

They desperately need to give new players and casual players reasons to get their feet wet in PvP. They need to make it more accessible

[lucid citrus]

and how would you want it to be more accesible?

[last jasper]

How does it relate conq uncap? U r playing 20y old game.

[mortal jay]

WOW has never and will never cater to the casual work 60 hours a week, play 1 hour at the end of the day.

[fiery gorge]

can someone get banned for this ?

or muted

[last jasper]

solo bg and solo shuffle sorta a step forward to these (me) guys

[mortal jay]

i suppose I should have said.. will never cater to those guys OVER the hardcore 12 hours a day live and die by their mmr score , min maxer players

i work 40+ hours a week.. i am 42.. and i would be foolish to think that wow is now or ever will be meant for me. so I adapt and get in where i can fit in 🙂

[cosmic thistle]

guys arms warrior in 2v2 its fking impoibble too kill

[wintry dew]

not really

disarm his avatar

feint the bladestorms

[last jasper]

There is always a healer

[mortal jay]

omnibar being broke is killing me 😦

[brazen drift]

You forgot the /spit at the end

[cosmic thistle]

2v2 is much more ez then ss fr

[last jasper]

When u put hellbloom into catalyst do u get normal appearance or pvp glad?

cuz in s2 u would get normal

[cosmic thistle]

i got pvp glad

no dont listen to me i couild be wrong

[last jasper]

U get lfr. lmao, wtf blizz

[jolly sierra]

tbh

if u wanna q as undergeared

just go epic

instead a bg messing the entire team

[last jasper]

2\3 ppl go mid wars in random bgs

[jolly sierra]

i got a team w pvers

[last jasper]

its not like u would drag them down

[jolly sierra]

the fuckers were w pve trinkets

messed the entire bg

[last jasper]

lmao, so if u put chest it gives mog from normal and if u put helm its from lfr.

[fiery gorge]

I couldnt play 12 hours a day fully focused because of mental lol

I improve more when I only played like 2 hours a day but fully invested than 12 hours barely alive

but obviously against those who can focus for 12 hours I have no chance

[wintry dew]

Hellbloom LFR afaik

[last jasper]

I just wonder how tf I've got normal p on alt. with 0 vaults and only 1 hellbloom piece

[cosmic thistle]

is 2v2 easier then ss?

[jolly sierra]

no

[steel scarab]

@lucid citrus There's a lot of ways they could make it more accessible. A PvP roadmap tab that tells you the upgrade path for gearing would be a huge help. As I said earlier, my gf and I do PvP together about 4 hours a week, and we went several weeks without knowing Hellbloom gear even exists, or that we can only get bloody tokens by having warmode turned on. The game doesn't tell you these things.

It's very inaccessible for the average player when you need to go outside the game and Google an updated, current, patch-specific guide that walks you through how to gear for PvP. Seriously, try Googling it. A few current PvP guides mention Hellbloom gear, but none of them state where the Hellbloom vendor is, nor do they say you need Warmode on to collect Hellbloom tokens, nor do they explain that PvP crates occasionally drop when Warmode is on.

The game is really quite good, but it does a terrible job of explaining itself.

[cosmic thistle]

cause iam in 1700mmr and its a peice of cake

[steel scarab]

Sorry for the slow response

I was ..... Wait for it

Working lol

[jolly sierra]

u are getting cocky

wait for the gatekeepers

[cosmic thistle]

gatekeepers?

[lime oar]

While I have been playing on and off since burning crusade, I am extremely average, have 3 kids and a demanding job. I don’t think it’s THAT inaccessible. Maybe for an absolutely brand new player. But if you’re average, you know there’s a pvp enclave in the main city. If you took the few minutes to talk to all the npc’s there, you’d find the hellbloom gear, the weekly quests, etc.

[steel scarab]

I did all that. It's very bizarre that they wouldn't position the Bloody vendor next to the other two gear vendors. I took quests from the Bloody vendor for weeks assuming he just sold garbage, because he's not next to the other gear vendors

Also

The game doesn't even tell you where to find Bloody tokens, afaik. When I finally discovered the Bloody Token vendor after Googling guides on PvP gearing, I then had to go down a Google rabbit hole to find out how to GET bloody tokens

This literally happened to me and I played Vanilla, TBC, WOTLK, then quit until Shadowlands. I'm telling you

Not everybody has been playing for 15 years straight, and for those that took a long break and come back, the game absolutely sucks at explaining what you've missed and how things work now.

It's not intuitive. And there's no reason it SHOULDN'T be intuitive.

Just needs a little pop up box: "We see you're pvping! Did you know you can get better gear by collecting Bloody tokens?! Find these by turning on War Mode and killing players, doing the weekly quest, or opening Warmode crates!"

Boom, done. Literally would take like 5 minutes of coding to print out a pop-up message to new players who queue for battlegrounds.

[jolly sierra]

this set is ugly af

dude

[steel scarab]

There is no compelling reason why they should not do this

[cosmic thistle]

Nah its the panda

and that u are 1.20cm

[jolly sierra]

respect the panda

canon wise im 2mt tall

[cosmic thistle]

https://tenor.com/view/panda-gif-5010559

[waxen meteor]

looks like painted by toddlers 🙂

[jolly sierra]

yeah

[cosmic thistle]

prob the panda

looks goofy

[jolly sierra]

nah

[gleaming pawn]

what exactly is unintuitive about a vendor having a dialog option that states they have items for sale, click me to see what they are? Just because you were apparently incapable of selecting this option does not mean they need to bloat the UIX with junk for braindead players making the UIX worse for everyone else

[jolly sierra]

set is fugly that is all

[gleaming pawn]

you're just too thicc to make it look good, it looks great on me

[jolly sierra]

OOF

at least shredder xmog looks well

still dislikes fkn s3 elite set

[cosmic thistle]

waht set is that?

[jolly sierra]

s2 elite

[cosmic thistle]

damn looks good

[last jasper]

nah, s2 is shit. this one is much better

[cosmic thistle]

is dfk and sin good comp in 2v2?

[jolly sierra]

no fkn way s2 is ugly

is the best one from xp

[last jasper]

yep, it is. sorry mate

[cosmic thistle]

i mean dk and sin is it good

[jolly sierra]

nah, ppl here loves that recolor

[last jasper]

what do u mean, s2 set isn't new?

[last jasper]

yea, thats hilarious that wpvp gear needs pvp mode on. Who would've thought

[cosmic thistle]

GUYS IS UNHOLY AND SIN GOOD?

2v2

[last jasper]

why when I only play rogue, I have tie matches in ss.

[jolly sierra]

it is, but the original one is the mythic one

[cosmic thistle]

welcome

[last jasper]

oh, I see. yea, they have hard time choosing right color for pvp this expansion

Here is the best rog race/set period

[cosmic thistle]

is rank 1 in acension good?

[jolly sierra]

too undead

[jolly sierra]

also, is that for pvp?

nah qipaos w sais are the best combo overall

[last jasper]

what do u mean?

[jolly sierra]

if is a pvp elite set

[last jasper]

Nah, it’s undead heritage. If I understand you correctly

[jolly sierra]

ah

beh

i really wanna see when they do my heritage set

im sure will be w a visual rework

[last jasper]

It have something from bfa s2. But much much better

[cosmic thistle]

is rank 1 in acension good?

is it hard too acheive?

[violet nimbus]

I dont understand why people play the new Sepsis build over old flag/goremaw, can someone explain?

[last jasper]

Cuz of tier set syncs with dark brew

[surreal barn]

That feeling when you get two 6-0s back to back on mmr placements

~ chefs kiss ~

[violet nimbus]

But that dmg is so low, how could 10% increase make such a big difference?
clones (tier set) is like 3% dmg, so it makes it 3,3% instead? XD

[brazen drift]

Sepsis build is instant, secret technique isn't, I'm assuming that's why.

[steel scarab]

@last jasper I mean I understand your snark, but have you ever heard the phrase "you don't know what you don't know?" How TF is anyone supposed to know they need to turn War Mode on to get the world PVP upgraded gear when they aren't aware world PVP upgraded gear exists?

Again, super simple concept

[violet nimbus]

You still use secret technique tho, there arent any viable builds who doesnt use secret technique

[jolly sierra]

wildsoul the game is friendly enough to gear up

if u wanna rush

just buy stuff from AH

then go to bgs

and play

if ppl doesnt do that then they just think its easy af so they can cheese

[brazen drift]

Yeah, just moreso the focused build that uses Gore and such. Apologies, got them mixed up, I've been playing Sepsis only for most of this season so I don't know the nuances.

[steel scarab]

@jolly sierra I also didn't know you could just buy PvP gear off the AH lol

[lucid citrus]

i like S1 elite more imo

[steel scarab]

Too late now, since I've got full 489 and 483 gear, but the game never tells you that you can spend gold to gear up for PvP as an option

[jolly sierra]

xd

[jolly sierra]

i have s1

but looks way too bulky for a rog set

[steel scarab]

Like please understand, I'm not saying the game doesn't have WAYS to help you gear. I'm saying the game doesn't TELL you about the ways

Which is bad design for new players

[jolly sierra]

dude u want stuff in ur hands

instead just asking

or googling

[gleaming pawn]

tell me again how the game doesn't have ways of telling new players

[steel scarab]

1. having to Google how to play a game is not great game design. The game should teach you itself. A great example of this is Astria Ascending, a switch RPG I'm playing right now. Cool game, but it never tells you what stats do

I forgot what 2 was but I'll come back to that

Okay, great example. That says "used to buy War Mode gear." It doesn't say WHERE the vendor is located, and it doesn't say WHAT item level the gear is, so how is a new player even supposed to know if they should be interested in it?

[last jasper]

Lmao

[lucid citrus]

when you go into your talents on the bottom right it literally has this

[violet nimbus]

okay stick to playing that, sounds like a great game, perfectly suited for your needs

[gleaming pawn]

ok Wildsoul, you said these two tell you what they are and what gear they are

[steel scarab]

You guys. When the PvP population of this game dwindles to nothing and queues are 2x what they are now, I hope you reflect upon this conversation and think to yourselves, "wow, maybe that Wildsoul guy had a point."

[gleaming pawn]

and combined with all of the other parts of the game telling you about warmode gear

what do you think this guys sells

[brazen drift]

Drugs

[jolly sierra]

no

u want stuff in ur hands

[last jasper]

Someone is def using them 😂

[brazen drift]

Me most days.

[jolly sierra]

literal

[brazen drift]

I work in retail, I need them lmao

[violet nimbus]

retail already has become a themepark mmo, doesnt need to get like a mobile game with popups with advice on how to play the game

[jolly sierra]

its like happens in my hotel

when ppl ask for the parking

[steel scarab]

Do you like, not want competition? Do you not want new players to have access to the same gear you have? If the answer to both these questions is yes, then why in God's name would you be against making it easier to understand how to gear your character for PvP? Like

[jolly sierra]

where tf ppl does pay

and LITERAL

[steel scarab]

Absolutely mind blowing

[jolly sierra]

THEY HAVE THE FKN SIGN

HIGHLIGHTED

AND STILL ASKS

[violet nimbus]

new players with 4 hours a week to pvp will never be in that competition

[gleaming pawn]

sorry my guy, you're not my competition

and neither would anyone not able to figure this shit out

[steel scarab]

Actually unhinged

[jolly sierra]

i wanna decent competition

not ppl which asks for obvious stuff

or refuses to search a little

because is not in their sight

[last jasper]

Just brutal

[jolly sierra]

ppl asking obvious stuff

[violet nimbus]

Wildsoul you should play the game and get good instead of whining here

[jolly sierra]

is unavoidable

and will happens

EVERYWHERE

u will never have all persons 100% satisfaced

[steel scarab]

The fact that you think people should be expected to consult Google outside the game they're playing to understand how to gear for a skill based aspect of the game instead of just telling you inside the game

Is insanity

[jolly sierra]

and this seems to be one of this cases

[steel scarab]

Pure insanity

[jolly sierra]

no

u are gaslighting me

[violet nimbus]

you got 4 hours a week to play, but 4 hours every day to complain on discord, sad life

[jolly sierra]

thinking this should be ridicously easy

[steel scarab]

You definitely do not know what gaslighting means

[jolly sierra]

yeah

[gleaming pawn]

YOU DON'T NEED TO CONSULT GOOGLE

[jolly sierra]

making me think something im right is wrong

stuff doesnt need to be that simple

[gleaming pawn]

the npc that gives you the trophies quest, and you turn them in, has a "click me to see my wares" button

[jolly sierra]

and is still easy to understand

[gleaming pawn]

you're just dense and cannot read obvious indicators in the game

[vocal surge]

You had to consult google to find PvP gear?

[steel scarab]

Yes, literally

[violet nimbus]

You do not need to google, to play the game, but if you want to play optimal, then you have to look up guides etc.

[jolly sierra]

this

[vocal surge]

The first thing I did in the city was walk around and talk to NPC

[jolly sierra]

dude hope i dont have u as client in my 5 star hotel

really dont want to attend more of that ppl

xd

[violet nimbus]

male version of karen

"James"

[jolly sierra]

my mom is a karen

literal

[violet nimbus]

lets make it trending

[jolly sierra]

was banned from a bread shop

for complain and ask for the manager

[vocal surge]

Basic MMO logic, talk to NPCs (especially in old school MMOs)

[steel scarab]

Right, is anyone at the War Mode quartermaster right now?

Someone click on him

And show us what he says

If he explains what bloody tokens are and where to get them

I will 100% admit I am wrong

If he doesn't

[jolly sierra]

no

i wont

[violet nimbus]

why would he tell you that?

[jolly sierra]

because u will refuse

to understand

so i dont care

[last jasper]

Idk man 😂

[steel scarab]

You are elitist pricks who can't see beyond the end of your own noses

[jolly sierra]

oh boy

hope

[violet nimbus]

I talk to Auction house npc, they dont tell me how to or where to farm the items

[jolly sierra]

u dont go to a 2k lobby

then that will be hell

for u

we are like a kindergarten here

compared to that

[violet nimbus]

he aint about that ranked game play, he wants to collect bloody tokens

but he doesnt know how

so he needs a guide in game

[steel scarab]

So you feel it's good game design, just having to alt+tab constantly to see what things in the game do? "Oh, this quartermaster doesn't explain how to get bloody tokens, guess I'll just alt tab and Google that"

[violet nimbus]

because he doesnt know how to use google

[steel scarab]

"it's clearly too much to ask that there would be a line of text in the quartermaster dialogue explaining where to get the currency for the items he sells"

Small indie conpany

[violet nimbus]

You can spend hours in game finding out yourself, but most people playing wow like being optimal, so we look up guides etc

[jolly sierra]

or maybe

[steel scarab]

What is actually wrong with you people lmao

[jolly sierra]

u watch ur map

and the currency itself

[brazen drift]

Highlight the currency in the menu and it tells you, no?

[jolly sierra]

to see where do u get that

[lucid citrus]

I think watching a simple video on how to get bloody tokens is enough to understand that its a seasonal thing

[slim iron]

[brazen drift]

I get his point, a bit more of a direction is something that is helpful, but wow is pretty good on that front.

[brazen drift]

Smile and wave, smile and wave.

[slim iron]

https://tenor.com/view/smileandwave-waving-hands-up-penguin-gif-13445431

[violet nimbus]

do not feed him, please, he is wrong

[jolly sierra]

he is wrong af

[vocal surge]

Hmm based on the text below his name, he's a War Mode vendor which means the stuff he's selling is tied to War Mode. There's a quest next to him, let's see what she wants.

[jolly sierra]

and is pretending to make us being the wrong ones actually

[violet nimbus]

but it is interesting to know how a mobile gamer thinks,

[vocal surge]

Oooh, she sells something, let's have a look

[violet nimbus]

a boomer who grew up without a computer

[last jasper]

The npc sells gear that require quest item u obtain from open world pvp quest and even have “war mode” in his name. The guy ask how could he knew he needed war mode on 😂

[vocal surge]

She sells better gear, gosh, how do I get more Trophy of Strife? 3500 is an outrageous price?

[brazen drift]

Greetings mortal, I have a ! above my head.

[slim iron]

Mom said it's my turn to be the center of attention.

[vocal surge]

oh boy, another quest let's see what they want

[jolly sierra]

oooooooooooohhhhhhhhh

shiny sign

[vocal surge]

so this is how you get Trophy of Strife, lets do it

and it gives honor, conquest, and rep

oh boy

[jolly sierra]

can u tell me now how to get sockets in my items?

[brazen drift]

How do I PvP

[last jasper]

You can have sockets in your gear?

[jolly sierra]

idk

im asking

lol

[violet nimbus]

what is a socket? game did not tell me

[steel scarab]

Game design flaw #1: the world PVP gear vendor should be situated directly next to the honor gear vendor and the conquest vendor. Having those two DIRECTLY next to each other gives the implication that those are the only two types of PvP gear in the game.

[vocal surge]

I forgot tto do my world quests, lets see what quests are up. Oh, this quest popped up and has a combat symbol AND it gives bloody coins, yay

[violet nimbus]

James, that is your assumption

[jolly sierra]

or maybe

u go around

[steel scarab]

Game design flaw #2: you should not have to open your character sheet and navigate to the currency tab (to a currency you may not have even collected yet) in order to determine how to acquire that currency.

[last jasper]

I wonder. How did he managed to get throw server list. There is only “pve” servers

[jolly sierra]

to see if there are more stuff

mmo are to explore

[violet nimbus]

maybe we should put vault info npc next to the pvp vendors too

[jolly sierra]

not to have everything in a silver plate

[violet nimbus]

and a socket info npc

and enchant info npc

[jolly sierra]

and a pvp class info npc

[violet nimbus]

cc info npc

[brazen drift]

That would be good tbh

Then my SS guys may know wtf they're doing

[violet nimbus]

DR info npc

[jolly sierra]

dont give them ideas

REEEEEEEEEEE

[violet nimbus]

people dont read in mmos

[brazen drift]

I don't read in general

[jolly sierra]

i play yugioh

i dont read shit

[brazen drift]

Can't do DPS by reading

[steel scarab]

Here's a thought. If you work in a 5 star hotel, you should know a thing or two about hospitality. Why would you treat your paying customer like shit? Or intentionally make things unnecessarily difficult for them?

[jolly sierra]

i do

but i feign

hospitality

inside i dont tolerate arrogant or overexpecting clients

[violet nimbus]

maybe they should give out conquest for reading

[jolly sierra]

but i cant say stuff

[steel scarab]

Then you're a bad employee

Next

[jolly sierra]

im not

else i would be fired

[last jasper]

Only if you reading Google

[steel scarab]

Untrue. There are tons of horrible employees who don't get fired. Terrible fallacy.

[jolly sierra]

nope

the worst ones we had here

are already fired

[lucid citrus]

Your 2 game flaws just really tells us that youre too lazy to find stuff and explore in the game LOL whining about opening your character cheet and complaining about taking like 20 steps from the honor/conquest vendor to the bloody tokens... dude youre hilarious

[violet nimbus]

The game needs to get better in a lot of ways, holding hands with the player is not one of them, retail (10.2 version) already does that way too much

[jolly sierra]

do u know how i know clients likes to be lied?

simple

[steel scarab]

I have full 489 and 483 gear. I'm just saying, the game should tell you this stuff. I should not have to turn to Google to discover War Mode PvP gear exists and that it's worth getting

[jolly sierra]

"how are you?"
-i had a tough day
"ok where i can find where i can pay?"

[steel scarab]

If you want people to PVP

The game should not make it unnecessarily difficult to wade through the crap to figure out how to participate

Super simple concept

[violet nimbus]

we dont want pve andys in our solo shuffles

[lucid citrus]

do you really have full 489 gear?

[jolly sierra]

lying in an art with public

[steel scarab]

Enjoy your 30 minute queues then

[jolly sierra]

happens in every context

even to sell cars

thinking is 100% bad is just a fallacy

[surreal barn]

Kevin James takin all you guys on

[violet nimbus]

i rather take a 30min queue than play with people who doesnt know how to get warmode gear

[brazen drift]

Kevin James

[vocal surge]

Bruh

30 min queues?

1 man leaving doesn't = 30min queue when theres thousands of people playing

This is some high ego stuff im reading

[jolly sierra]

dude wants kindergarten

inside game

that is all

[violet nimbus]

if we get an influx of 100 million pve andys we would still be stuck at a 30min queue at the top, the only difference would be our ranking skyrocketing

[jolly sierra]

andys would be ez af to farm

ngl

[violet nimbus]

some unlucky souls would be stuck in elo hell, with pve andys asking about warmode vendor during the games

you would farm them for a few games, then you would be facing the regular people at 4k mmr

[last jasper]

Lmao. I just realized that he also need addons to play pvp

[lime oar]

Bro can’t read tooltips

[last jasper]

He can read google tho

[steel scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/kevinjames-gif-6419790611406945424

[violet nimbus]

told u he is a troll

[jolly sierra]

i really get fun with trolls

ngl

guys idk how to sell stuff to npc

do someone have a guide to learn that

[gleaming pawn]

Imagine calling the friendliest and most willing to help group of pvp players in the class discords, a bunch of elitist assholes

[violet nimbus]

that sounds like a james thing to me

also getting personal with that 5 star hotel thing

I am wondering if he is trying to call the management at blizzard

or maybe writting an angry email

or letter

[jolly sierra]

yeah

[brazen drift]

Can we start referring to things as a James thing.

[slim iron]

When are you dropping your own game?

[jolly sierra]

that is an insta shadowban

here

(a banish)

[waxen meteor]

I thought trophy was 3500 honor for 8

Just today I realized it’s 3500 for 1

[jolly sierra]

yeah

[waxen meteor]

Just did two +18

Now I am a pve Andy too

[jolly sierra]

that is to compensate ur lack of compromise w weeklys

/s

but ngl

fucking sparks are easier to get

[waxen meteor]

For past weeks the Tuesdays had been miserable for me

Found a revival point and killed random people respawn till it hit 100

There were 4728572030 people doing the same so been fast

But doing four chars every Tuesday sucks

[surreal barn]

lol four characters

That’s insane

Do you fill the vaults too?

[waxen meteor]

Yeah

That’s why I said I don’t enjoy playing lock, more like a task

Over enjoy

Will not do that anymore

2 is healthy

3 might be manageable for some

[jolly sierra]

i fill 4 too

its tiresome af

[waxen meteor]

I was planning to do rogue DH and whatever caster I never played and op

Then found out ret can take orange weapon

so

[jolly sierra]

yeah i didnt get that this week

but im still stacking hard those bad luck prots

lol

[bitter hornet]

With regards to subtlety, will it be better to replace the Hellbloom gear with conquest/life-bound gear after the rest of our gear is filled out? It looks like the main trade-off by going this route is higher vers., ilvl (stam/agi.), etc., but lower mastery. Seems like the trade-off for all better stats, minus mastery may be worth it, but I wasn't sure how detrimental it would be in pvp since we are so reliant on big finishers(i.e. mastery).

[steel scarab]

I am cursed boys

Nothing good in the vault this week

[brazen drift]

Did you Google where to find the vault

[steel scarab]

No, but I'll tell you, when I came back in Shadowlands after 10 years away from the game, the vault was not well explained and not intuitive at all. Luckily I had a RL friend who explained how it worked

I think many folks take for granted that they've been playing the game for ten, fifteen years straight. A lot of things seem super intuitive to many of you because you've lived and breathed this game. It's not always the case for new players, or for people returning

And I do strongly believe Blizzard needs to do a better job catering to new players and returning players, because if they don't, all they're going to have left is the dwindling customer base they've currently got

Before Shadowlands, the last expansion I had played was WOTLK. So no, the game did not explain the vault well, and people weren't talking about the vault when I returned in Shadowlands, which is many years after the Great Vault was implemented

So, your jest aside, it was indeed quite confusing

I had initially assumed the lock icon on the map was just showing me where the bank was. I never hovered over it, because hey, it looked like a bank icon

I love the game

I really do

[gleaming pawn]

let me guess, you never bothered to read the quest text when the game literally introduced the great vault to you. And you didn't read the headers for each slot that said Defeat X raid bosses, complete X mythic+ dungeons, etc

[steel scarab]

I don't think it's crazy or unreasonable of me to think they could upgrade things and make it more user friendly so new players and returning players might love it too

[steel scarab]

Do you read every single quest the game throws at you?

[vocal surge]

Yes

[steel scarab]

Amazing

[gleaming pawn]

when it's my first time doing that quest, 1000%

[steel scarab]

I think if you polled 10,000 players, you'd get maybe 25% who actually read every quest

[gleaming pawn]

and when I came back to the game at the end of BFA, having quit in Cata, I read everything

becuase that's what new and returning players are supposed to do

[steel scarab]

Also, maybe being introduced to the great Vault when you're trying to learn your keybinds isn't the best time

[vocal surge]

I came back in Shadowlands and immediately understood what the Great Vault wanted me to do after reading each row

[steel scarab]

It should introduce the Vault when you hit level cap, as a "hey, here's what you can do now!" type thing

[vocal surge]

after quitting at the end of WoD

[gleaming pawn]

you refuse to read the quest text doing exactly what you are asking blizzard to help you with, and you have no brain bandwidth to read the quest about X mechanic and then go back to your keybinds and playing your character

because you certainly are not doing both those things at the same time

[steel scarab]

I think there are much more organic ways to integrate endgame gameplay loop expectations than "open your menu and read the boxes"

Like a really important story NPC saying "hey, come follow me to this vault!"

[gleaming pawn]

you are not even the lowest common denominator of player for this game, you are a genuine anomaly of ignorance and stupidity

[vocal surge]

That sounds like you want to be treated like a 3yo, just saying "gimme gimme gimme"

[steel scarab]

Strong words all around

[vocal surge]

rather than trying to understand what the game is telling you

[gleaming pawn]

the quest introing you to the capital city in SL had you follow an NPC that took you all over, including the vault. WTF are you talking about

[vocal surge]

^

[steel scarab]

Right. Now imagine

Just imagine

[vocal surge]

You had another quest at max level

[halcyon timber]

people sat around whining because they didn't want to follow and listen

[vocal surge]

that required you to use the great vault

[steel scarab]

Doing that quest after ten years off from the game

[halcyon timber]

then say the game is bad because of their own impatience

[gleaming pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/po-facepalm-gif-27277915

just holy jesus fucking christ

I'm done.

[steel scarab]

There's a lot of information overload in the game

There's a ton of noise and it's very easy to miss important stuff in the noise

[gleaming pawn]

this clown is either brain dead or a troll, either way I'm blocking and washing my hands of it

[vocal surge]

I i cant

Some of this stuff

[steel scarab]

Furthermore, I think I've pretty succinctly expressed my love for the game and what I deem to be completely reasonable constructive criticism, and simply because I haven't played the game for 15 years straight I get dogpiled by you folks

Like

Guys the game is dying. Wouldn't it be nice if it wasn't dying?

Things can change a bit, it's not too scary

[halcyon timber]

it would be nice for people to be better overall

[vocal surge]

Its not that the game is scary

or change as well

[halcyon timber]

game isn't "dying" that meme can git

community needs to be better as a whole.

[vocal surge]

its that your comprehension of wanting to learn the world around them equates to 0 and want to be instead be pampered like a spoiled 3 year old because you cant spare the time to read quest text inbetween dialogue and or travel time

[halcyon timber]

people can read and watch shit instead of going to youtube vids and getting a tldr on everything as well

[steel scarab]

Do you realize that like, only 10% of the playerbase actually pvps?

[vocal surge]

Even with the game dangling a carrot at your face multiple time, you just refuse to bite the carrot

[halcyon timber]

could care less who pvps

[steel scarab]

Would it not be better if PvP was more accessible and more people were playing?

[halcyon timber]

it is literally the most accessible it has ever been

[steel scarab]

Do you not want shorter queue times and more competition?

[halcyon timber]

old expansions people had to pve

[steel scarab]

No, Eridian I agree

[halcyon timber]

wod gearing and all the catch up stuff came up

[steel scarab]

That is a tremendous step in the right direction

[halcyon timber]

easiest it has ever been

[steel scarab]

Absolutely huge

But people don't KNOW that

[halcyon timber]

they did a sick job with it

[steel scarab]

The game needs to tell people

When they login

[vocal surge]

I've had people

[halcyon timber]

people can read and pay attention when they log in

[vocal surge]

first time playing WoW

EVER

[halcyon timber]

they literally have a quest

[steel scarab]

"Gearing for PvP is easy! Go do it!"

[vocal surge]

find things

[halcyon timber]

that TELLS YOu

[vocal surge]

faster than you have

because they read the quest text

[steel scarab]

Even better