pvp

[last jasper]

blitz is fast paced bg and gives same amount as rbg. Plus its 8v8

[waxen meteor]

Rogue is bad at big gangbang situation anyway

[halcyon timber]

Have an escape plan and don’t dive in epic bgs

[fiery gorge]

So as rogue in bg-s the best bet is to play it strategically around objectives ?

[waxen meteor]

Epic bg we need to execute different takss

Not just gangbang

[fiery gorge]

trying to innitiate smaller skirmishes to get objectives

[halcyon timber]

Cause hell where you can capturing objectives and sabotage equipment

[waxen meteor]

In 40 vs 40 gangbang essentially all melees are bad

[halcyon timber]

Moonkin kingdom

[last jasper]

true

[fiery gorge]

its mostly bunch of casters and healers who queue

[last jasper]

hate epic bgs. They are laggy as hell

[fiery gorge]

they stand close to each other and spam AOEs

[lucid citrus]

do you guys usually press vanish first or shadow dance first when playing outlaw?

[waxen meteor]

Bg is boring imo

[halcyon timber]

Big ones are fun but you make your own fun

[waxen meteor]

And especially in yolo with random people who don’t know what to do anyway

[fiery gorge]

I think Isle of Conquest and Wintergrasp is goated

lots of things to do

[waxen meteor]

20 years later people still don’t know how to do bg

It’s amazing

[fiery gorge]

but I rarely get those maps

90% its Ashran

[halcyon timber]

Ashran is fun but you once again make your own fun

[waxen meteor]

For me rogue bg is basically lone wolf

[fiery gorge]

same

[waxen meteor]

Steal resources and flags

[halcyon timber]

Have to be for sure

[fiery gorge]

Or I queue with few friends and we hover around in small groups

skirmishing

ambushing

hit and run playstyle

[waxen meteor]

I think you are essentially giving yourself headache trying to go mid and do gangbangs

[fiery gorge]

its fun when

Blood dk

xD

but otherwise cancer imo

btw

Tol Barad

doesnt exist anymore ?

Never got it

[waxen meteor]

Or you play marksman in random bg

Too OP for noobs

[fiery gorge]

Or not tol barad

hows that one called

where you start on ships

and attack gates

[waxen meteor]

and still too powerful against good players

[fiery gorge]

on an half island

the other team defends

[waxen meteor]

That map alliance just auto wins

[fiery gorge]

because they always defend ?

[waxen meteor]

No I might not understand which one you are talking about

[fiery gorge]

there is an half-island

or was

there were two gates left and right side

there is one attacker team and one defender team

the attackers come with two ships on left and right side

they can pick up siege machines to destroy the gates

the defenders defend gates with cannons on both sides of the gate

there are multiple gates on left and right side

building up in a small mountain

[waxen meteor]

I don’t think that map still exists anymore

[fiery gorge]

I got the name

Strand of the Ancients

Got removed in BfA

Got removed same time when they split regular bgs and epic bgs into seperate queues

SotA wasn't really either of them it was pretty hybrid map

[last jasper]

Idk is that copium or they hotfixed something. But the dam feels better

[waxen meteor]

What dmg

[plush hemlock]

I play Outlaw, want to get decent at pvp and push some rating. should I play another spec? (haven't spent conq yet)

[worthy crag]

anyone else lagging inside arenas?

[jolly sierra]

FINALLY

[surreal barn]

lol

[worthy crag]

what the fuck is this lag in arenas

like actually

its fking unplayable

[untold lotus]

switched to tea from bite and I love it

as a new sub player

that is all

[jolly sierra]

played today post this crappy hotfix

ended 1-5 against a 5-1 UH, an augvoker and a fucking demo lock with 2 rsham in blades edge

awful

gotta go sleep cya

[rotund fulcrum]

You’d want to vanish first to start to cdr it asap

[sharp sierra]

22%crit/0%haste/116%mastery/31%vers

28%crit with symbol this is the best build tbh with 2sets
we dont need 4sets anymore cuz tech dmg increased by 13.9% on 2sets

[last jasper]

Sub dam.

[sharp sierra]

still can big dick dmg with 2sets

[maiden gull]

monk has 100k dps in Arena now lmao

time to revert the outlaw nerfs i guess

[last jasper]

Undergeared/pve most likely

[sharp sierra]

oops.

[surreal barn]

Did you get pooped on

[dense sluice]

@stable urchin no way you just typed that word

[wintry dew]

Bye

[surreal barn]

😂

[wary moss]

What was the hotfix?

[last jasper]

He meant nerf

[wary moss]

Ahh gotcha

[cosmic thistle]

guys i have 0 haste wtf

[wintry dew]

Good

You don't need it

[wary moss]

I'm at 1598 rating 😭
Just want to get to 1600 before I really start focusing on another character

With work and moving I haven't been able to get my grind in 😦

[waxen meteor]

Don’t worry I haven’t played this week

Got a procedure at hospital yesterday now hand is banned doing anything

Then will be Christmas days

Not sure if I can even max vault this week

[surreal barn]

Did you get another finger installed for wow

I’ve been considering it

[cosmic thistle]

is 1400 good rating?

how do i win against a havoc if looked on internet cant find a video

i must hav like 10% winrate against them

[waxen meteor]

[wintry dew]

Evasion his meta, cloak his hunt, stun when he doesn't have blur

[cosmic thistle]

ok

will need to see those abylites first

[wintry dew]

Pro tip: dh blur let's him dodge even if you are behind him

Which no other class can

[surreal barn]

Cant dodge a cheap shot tho

Played my Nelf first time this season yesterday I can feel the power from meld already in situations like that 😂

[wintry dew]

How can they dodge kidneys but not cheap?

[surreal barn]

Cheap works diff

[wintry dew]

Thanks

[surreal barn]

Np

[last jasper]

Haven’t notice this until now. Funny, why we can dodge cheap unless from behind

[wintry dew]

That's why we always shadow step kidney other rogues xD

That's like a golden rule

[cosmic thistle]

when u say hunt u mean the hunt right?

[wintry dew]

Yes

[cosmic thistle]

ok

ty

[wintry dew]

Use the cloak pvp talent

[cosmic thistle]

i have big concern tho on omnibar it says track what should i put there?

Target?

[cosmic thistle]

i have

[wintry dew]

No idea, I don't track that many stuff I don't play optimally

[cosmic thistle]

also i dont think i see the interuppts and spells files i maked

cause if i press test i see them how it should look it dosent in arena

[wintry dew]

Can't help you with that

[last jasper]

Yea. Idk why but it always feel bad to use step like that.

[waxen meteor]

Cheap shot goes through like everything. You cannot dodge it

Even when war has the sword def you can cheap shot

But you don’t necessarily want to cheap DH in blur

[wintry dew]

Never really thought about it

[waxen meteor]

Because iirc, DH blur works even in stun

Different than any other class again

[wet dune]

Cheap overrides dodges and parries and dodges and parries don’t work in stuns

That’s why sub fucks dh

[nova viper]

i know

i mean*

DH just be deleted

[jolly sierra]

cheap shot bypasses everything but inmunes

[nova viper]

This class doesn't fit this game at all, whether in PVP or PVE

[waxen meteor]

But you can bypass Netherwalk

DH again different than anything else

[jolly sierra]

dh is weird

in all senses

[nova viper]

more edgy than rogue!

[jolly sierra]

i still think toxic rog players rerolled to dh in legion

[jolly sierra]

edgiest class overall

[nova viper]

only rogue can be edgy

[wet dune]

Netherwalk is different, it’s a damage immune not attack immune

[nova viper]

SEXOOOO

[jolly sierra]

SEXOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[waxen meteor]

Yeah it’s quite goofy

[cosmic thistle]

i cant win against dh its not even a joke they heal like fking healers and do so much dmg

how does pople kill that thing

[wintry dew]

In stuns

[cosmic thistle]

prob dont use my stuns so good

[gleaming pawn]

Yep a DH in a full kidney without a healer is a dead DH

Just gotta save some juice to burst them down after they use their trinket

[cosmic thistle]

so like smoke bomb kindey burst?

[wintry dew]

That's a way to do it yes

But you must be sure he doesn't have trinket

[cosmic thistle]

nah iam down with gg

its not even fun

iam doing what u tell me it dont work

[surreal barn]

DHs flop if you have your cds as assa

Even in full greens

[cosmic thistle]

i donty undertand wow language yet

[surreal barn]

DH= demon hunter, CDs 💿 = cooldowns, assa = assassination spec

[cosmic thistle]

i tuned of the rot shit now i will never use it ever again

can somone explian what cleave means?

[tribal badger]

hitting multiple targets nearby the one ur hitting

Blade flurry for outlaw is a cleave (outlaw basically perma cleaves)

[cosmic thistle]

so bassically if 2 is very close i do dmg too both?

and what is cps?

looking at rot guide dont undertsand him

sry foe being stupid

[tribal badger]

combo points

ur resource

[cosmic thistle]

what is badge?

[wintry dew]

Rot = cleave = damaging everyone around your target. In assa's case, rupture + garrote.

Badge = your active trinket that gives you agility on click

[cosmic thistle]

its only eqiup the oen i got

one

[wintry dew]

you're using the proc chance one then

[cosmic thistle]

what does proc mean i feel so fkign stupid

[wintry dew]

proc = chance to proc = you can't control when it activates

[cosmic thistle]

oh ok

[jolly sierra]

royal take a breath

[cosmic thistle]

XD

[wintry dew]

nah man im shooting this questions down, our boy merek is learning

[jolly sierra]

k

gl

[wintry dew]

https://tenor.com/view/respect-salute-kid-tiphat-gif-10931101

[cosmic thistle]

u will soon see why am asking

[wintry dew]

i hope thats atleast 1800 rating achieve

[cosmic thistle]

it is

this guy shadenox dosrent use dance and kb at the same time why?

i tought that was the way

[wintry dew]

can you show me where you see him not using it?

[tribal badger]

that kingsbane is still inside dance

all that matters is u get kingsbane off before dance falls off to snapshot the damage amp

[wintry dew]

^

[tribal badger]

(the damage amp from dance will benifit the entire duration of kingsbanes damage if you cast it before dance falls off before you ask what snapshotting is)

[wintry dew]

wait

better than that

[cosmic thistle]

cause iam using death dance and kb in the same macro

[wintry dew]

well not anymore

[cosmic thistle]

xd

[wintry dew]

its not trolling if you do honestly, its situational, all we want is KB inside of the shadowdance window

but if Shadenox came up with that burst opener, its because it works

[gleaming pawn]

You can do that, it won’t hurt you getting 1800. Keeping them separate just means you have fine control of the process but when you’re bursting it is almost always at the same time

[wintry dew]

@cosmic thistle do you understand snapshotting?

[cosmic thistle]

nope

[wintry dew]

let me explain then

(let me just open wow first)

[cosmic thistle]

oki

[wintry dew]

WoW for dummies 1o1

this is the point you get before shadowdance

While this buff is active, any cast of rupture/garrote/kingsbane inside this window will have an additional 10% dmg

[cosmic thistle]

i see

[wintry dew]

thats you see in the opener he pops shadowdance + tea + pvp agility trinket and THEN ruptures + garrote + kingsbane

all these abilities will deal 10% more damage

tea, besides giving you energy, also increase your mastery by 13,6% (is it nerfed in pvp?) for 6 seconds

[cosmic thistle]

dont think so

[wintry dew]

are you now understanding why we want to garrote/rupture after we leave stealth? So we snapshot out bleeds to do 10% more dmg

[cosmic thistle]

yes

thats very samrt

[wintry dew]

if you use them in the middle of an arena, without shadowdance or vanish, they will deal less dmg, thats pretty much it

besides that

[tribal badger]

dont refresh them before they fall off either or you will override the damage amp

for garrote and rupture

[wintry dew]

Those talents are extremely important

you get both the dmg amps when you use shadowdance

[wary moss]

Then shiv will boost them too, make sure to get a shiv in

[tribal badger]

and to be clear to simplify things, these from stealth damage amps are the ONLY snapshotting rogue does

no other effects snapshot

tea, shiv, trinkets, procs

[cosmic thistle]

he says its burst opener do he mean like you do this the first thing u do in the start of the round?

[tribal badger]

those all only give boost for their duration

yes opener is generally how you open (from stealth)

[cosmic thistle]

do u often use brust openor

[wintry dew]

we all do

yes

KEEP IN MIND, you're not using deathmark on this burst opener, do you know why?

[cosmic thistle]

nope

[wintry dew]

Wanna take a wild guess? in theory you're bursting, why not use it?

[cosmic thistle]

cause its single target?

[tribal badger]

what do people do when u use ur burst

[cosmic thistle]

and dotn ahve othe ron bleeds?

[wintry dew]

ill give you a clue: CDS

[tribal badger]

they are probably going to press their defensive buttons

so splitting ur burst cds can be strong

you can also use deathmark with ur second kingsbane

[cosmic thistle]

oh

wqhy no slice and dice?

[wintry dew]

Shadowdance + kingsbane have 1 minute CD, deathmark has 2 min CD, as @tribal badger said, splitting CDS can be deadly to the opposite team

[wintry dew]

so you can burst faster

[tribal badger]

well if he is running the pvp talent you will put SnD up with ur stuns

if not, snd doesnt really increase ur burst at all

its more for sustain

you can get it up after the opener

[gilded gulch]

honestly no pvp openers are set in stone

[wintry dew]

You can get it up while trying to survive their gos

[cosmic thistle]

why are they like 5000000 openeros wtf

[gilded gulch]

sometimes you can scare people into trinketing non threatening sap bomb openers

and kill someone for trinketing early

[wintry dew]

because you aren't playing VS A.I

[tribal badger]

because pvp is not a pve environment where we can sim optimal options

everything is fluid

based on the situations, the buttons ur enemies pressing

etc

[gilded gulch]

also because rogue

has more control options than most classes

tbf

healers who instant trinket blind amuse me

[cosmic thistle]

This is what i have been making my own rot guide:) 200 iq

[gilded gulch]

bruh

you cant follow a set in stone opener in pvp

[cosmic thistle]

no but good too make a sense too it

cause i have 0 idea about the openers

[gilded gulch]

oh

dont play sub then

[wintry dew]

hes assa

[gilded gulch]

otherwise the dozen adjustments based on orc/rele will implode your brain

[cosmic thistle]

i have been playing with a rotation addon for pve i need too learn the basics if i wanna improve

[gilded gulch]

never liked rotation addons in general

just track basic buffs etc and learn what does damage and what doesnt

have to also consider things like if someone trinket disarms your opening stun

what to do

[cosmic thistle]

yupp but that i take after i have learned this rots

iknow it will not be 100% accurate in a ss

[surreal barn]

Loooool I was wondering why my trinket was always on cd

I had my medallion in macro instead of dps trink

[cosmic thistle]

wtf my shiv does 300k dmg ?????

[wintry dew]

lets us see

[wary moss]

The biggest shiv I've seen is 80k.

300k is huge

[cosmic thistle]

maybe iam on soemhign then xd

[wintry dew]

you're not

lets us see the details

[cosmic thistle]

ok wait just need to do the rot its kinda hard so wait

[wintry dew]

ill wait

then send details

[gleaming pawn]

A shiv with the damage amp talents can do a lot of damage, like tiny toxic blade I think it is. But I don’t know about 300k from one crit

[buoyant crow]

It's probably 300k overall from both charges

[cosmic thistle]

no 1 charge

[buoyant crow]

🤔

[wintry dew]

im betting 1 shiv and it hit multiple targets on the dummies

[cosmic thistle]

nope

or wait i think thats why XD

[wintry dew]

https://tenor.com/view/shade-bye-fabulous-im-fabulous-im-too-hot-gif-7394066

[lucid citrus]

Yupp sounds about right!

[cosmic thistle]

royal has some high ass iq

[wintry dew]

And im a 1800 scrub, now let that sink in

but boy oh boy i know my game

my problem for not climbing 2.1 / 2.4 is that im not mechanically good and i rage too quick

[cosmic thistle]

when is a good time too use this burst openor?

[wintry dew]

after the sap

[gilded gulch]

you make an evaluation

[cosmic thistle]

yes but like why

[gilded gulch]

based on what they trade

[cosmic thistle]

can it kill somone?

[wintry dew]

probably not

[gilded gulch]

depends what they respond with...

some people are just stupid and sit it

and die

[cosmic thistle]

then why i do it?

[gilded gulch]

pressure

[wintry dew]

Xiani, i've learned that explaining stuff to merek as if he was 12 its way easier

[gilded gulch]

if you sap healer and your priest has even 2 braincells to fear off

[cosmic thistle]

should i always do this everyround?

[gilded gulch]

they need to trade

[cosmic thistle]

fr

[gilded gulch]

pvp has way too many variables

for a one size fits all

[wintry dew]

^

Merek

[gilded gulch]

one time i had a warrior in 2s trinket a dragons breath in after leaping all within the first 10 secs of gates opening

so just kidney bombed him with full cds

[wintry dew]

Why do you do it? A WoW guide for dummies part 2: You want to kill people right?
Right.
Then you need to hit them when they are not able to retaliate.
You sap healer (6 seconds CC)
You do opener burst on the guy you want to kill.
3 things can happen (ATLEAST 3 THINGS CAN HAPPEN):
1 - Healer is forced to use trinket and saves his dps;
2 - Dps trinkets your stuns and uses his defensive CDS;
3 - Healer sits the sap, dps sits your stun and no defensive CDS are used, you are most likely to kill him

in the case 1 you now know you can CC the healer in the next 90 seconds and they CANT do anything about it

In case 2 you know your next full stun can be followed by a smoke bomb, either giving you an opportunity to kill the guy or forcing the Healer CDS

In case 3 you win

[gilded gulch]

if you watch most r1 rogues they generally know there are a few outcomes that the enemy team can respond with

to get out of the situation they put them in

[wintry dew]

Thats exactly this

We are playing a 3D chess game

[gilded gulch]

granted its funny sometimes you see them at lower rating just be like wtf

when they see something cooked happen

[wintry dew]

xD

[cosmic thistle]

ty bro does anwers was that i was looking for

[wintry dew]

All good man you're now my 12 yo bro

[cosmic thistle]

XD

[wintry dew]

Tbf most of us veterans get complicated with out answers because we know the amount of shit that can happen in 1.5seconds

and we MUST adjust to what happens

[gilded gulch]

sometimes when i play my alts im jus

disappointed

[wintry dew]

xD

[gilded gulch]

because i know theres a way they can win

and they just dont do it

[wintry dew]

I just love how other classes say "rogue is easy, just stun"

the amount of keyboards rogues break must be higher than any other class

[gilded gulch]

kind of like how players like pika end up doing 1v2s at lower ratings so much

you know whats on the table and what isnt

[buoyant crow]

Pikas so much fun to watch lol

Calling plays before they happen

[gilded gulch]

he just has alot of energy tbh

most of the higher end rogues can technically too just dont have the personality to stream

[cosmic thistle]

fuck pika hes too god makes me amd

mad

[buoyant crow]

He's also been playing rogue since he was a young lad

It's in his blood

[gilded gulch]

his first r1 was like at 13 or 14

in mop 5s iirc

[tribal badger]

well to be fair the other day pika was playing WW with randos and getting clowned on by sub rogues at 1600 rating xd

pre sub nerf anyway

lets not pretend sub was super hard to play

[gilded gulch]

honestly ww should lose to sub

if the rogue isnt inting

[tribal badger]

yes and its not even close

even with 1600 rated sub rogues

[gilded gulch]

i was laughing so hard at a tyga stream

hes like "and heres a random rogue in the wild running on his blades after wasting stun and fear drs"

[gilded gulch]

https://www.twitch.tv/kalvish/clip/KitschyCredulousMonitorFloof--0gdltAQoyxpaHNA

[tribal badger]

let me just 1 tap u real quick in two DR'd cheap shots

💅

people wonder why sub is one of the most complained about specs in the game when its even slightly overtuned

[gilded gulch]

my favorite meme was howton playing venthyr MA sub in SL

with a necro ww

[fiery gorge]

What item order buy first from conquest ?

rn I am full honor + conquest both daggers

after daggers chestplate and shoulders ?

or the two trinkets

or smth different

what order

[wintry dew]

do you have tier?

[fading blade]

the sin rogue (if we are talkin about the clip) didnt even press a single defensive either lol. "most complained" but its also skill diff

[tribal badger]

what defensive would he have pressed

[fiery gorge]

whats that

[tribal badger]

he died from full hp in 3 seconds of DR'd cheap shots

[fading blade]

could of evasioned, cloaked, disarmed

but ya that pre nerf was disgusting

[tribal badger]

if hes running physical cloak he could have trinketed the 2s or 1s stun to cloak i guess

evasion wouldnt do anything because the rogue is dancing and cheaping

cheap shot cant be dodged

and u cant dodge while stunned

[fading blade]

evasion with back against walls

[surreal barn]

Disarm

[gilded gulch]

i think in most logical player's brains

[tribal badger]

it doesnt matter where ur back is

[gilded gulch]

you're not gonna die in a half and quarter cheap

[tribal badger]

cheap shot cant be dodged

and u cant dodge during stuns

[fading blade]

i think it went over ur head still

can still evasion with back against wall to avoid evis while sitting cheap

[tribal badger]

no

because u cant dodge

while stunned

cheap is a stun

[gilded gulch]

its also ruins

where you gonna back up to a wall in time

while in duel

[fading blade]

o i misread sorry the dab just kicked in and brain went smooth

[fiery gorge]

can someone quickly tell me what item should I buy from conquest first after daggers from full honor gear ?

[tribal badger]

evasion will only prevent subs damage if u are on stun dr

thats why subs really good at killing other rogues/dh

u have a guarenteed stun through all their dodge cds and can basically ignore them during ur burst

[fading blade]

pre nerf plus blessings def will delete someone for sure

even without blessing

[tribal badger]

but also to be fair to this person

most people cant imagine needing to trinket a 2s/1s DR'd cheap shot

when they enter the 2s at 90% hp

[fading blade]

the player shoulda respected kalv

[lapis breach]

Hi, I was Sub, switching to Sin now, just learning the ropes. I'm hoping to make a bleed rogue that takes advantage of Sudden Demise, particularly for PVP. Can anyone provide some advice, and also tell me whether my math here is correct?:

sudden demise: 150% bleed needed -> death at 35%
typical PVP target: 900k health
[edited to correct this: = 315k life (35% of 900k) is the target, so would need 150% of that, which is 472k bleed damage]
garrote: 71k
deathmark: 51k, plus while marked, garrote and rupture do double damage
rupture: 140k at max combo points -> 280k with deathmark
garrote reapplication: 71k * 2 = 142k
total: 51k deathmark + deathmarked 280k rupture + 142k garrote
= 470k
note that my gear sucks so the bleed numbers are probably low

[fading blade]

born playing wow probably

[gilded gulch]

that's gorecki's alt rogue but yeah

you dont normally think you're gonna die from full hp to 2 dr cheapshots

[fading blade]

yeah 2 dr cheapshots is fkin nuts

[gilded gulch]

esp to just rogue

[tribal badger]

honestly getting a sub rogue lobby as a non sub rogue in solo shuffle is my worst nightmare

games on the same team r so much harder to win because we walk all over each others DR's

and sub is so strong against other rogues

xd

[fading blade]

true

[gilded gulch]

sometimes i wonder how howton got r1 playing

sub outlaw rdruid

[tribal badger]

oh i mean if ur fully organized im sure its good

cause theres still usually 1 target off dr u can cover kidney

so entire enemy team is cc'd during goes

[gilded gulch]

yeah

[tribal badger]

but in solo shuffle that almost never happens

[gilded gulch]

same with most sub comps that arent

rogue mage

oh look cheap off sheep or sheep off cheap

we're so skilled

/s

[fading blade]

or just do ele 1 shot / roll dh

ez skill

[gilded gulch]

play rm

pray you get ww every game

free pts

[fading blade]

did the monk buff happen yet

[gilded gulch]

yes

[fading blade]

oof

[gilded gulch]

but idk ww has always just

flopped to rmx

[wary moss]

Ww squishy asf

[tribal badger]

eles pretty hilarious

i do love queuing up some ele

[fading blade]

Always full send the ele build

[wary moss]

I'm gonna try to gear my lock after a snag a win on my rogue.

I'm destro would anyone want to do 2s?

[cosmic thistle]

@wintry dew been doing the burst opner now in some 2v2 its very op its they insta die

[wintry dew]

tier 31 pieces, like the ones that drop from the raid

[fiery gorge]

No I dont have good pve gear

[wintry dew]

dont rely purely on that

[fiery gorge]

my pvp gear is higher base ilvl than pve rn lol

with 419 vs 413

[wintry dew]

oh thats extremely low

[fiery gorge]

maybe I start to raid sometimes later on and get the set gear but I prefer to raid on tanks

not rogue

[wintry dew]

do you know what is the catalyst?

[fiery gorge]

rogue strictly pvp for me

[fiery gorge]

no I dont know most new things of the game

[wintry dew]

oh boy

[fiery gorge]

returned only 1 month ago

lol

after 6 years of not playing

[wintry dew]

this is a tier piece

[fiery gorge]

Looks nice

maybe I get it later

but rn I only focus pvp

[wintry dew]

brother

if you're not even willing to shut up and learn

you do you

[fiery gorge]

I am willing to learn

just tell me what I should do

thats why I was asking

[wintry dew]

look at the damn item

[fiery gorge]

xDDDD

sorry

I am blind

[wintry dew]

When did you last played?

[fiery gorge]

MoP

on private server

[wintry dew]

MoP had tier sets tho

[fiery gorge]

yep

[gilded gulch]

419

isnt that lower than honor greens

[fiery gorge]

well base ilvl I think

I have full verdant aspirants + conq daggers

[gilded gulch]

also worth doing the world content stuff

for bloody token trophy gear

[wintry dew]

Okay, TLDR you can convert conquest items (head/shoulders/chest/gloves/pants) into tier pieces VIA catalyst (and you will want atleast 2 pieces for the 2)set).
Once you have conquest pants and gloves you can use the catalyst https://www.wowhead.com/guide/revival-catalyst-dragonflight and get your 2 tier set items.

Do you play assa or sub or outlaw?

@fiery gorge

[wary moss]

Don't waste your conquest on catalyst items

Buy the 450 hellbloom gear

Then change that into the set pieces and you get to keep your conquest gear

[gilded gulch]

isnt hellbloom gear lower ilvl

[wintry dew]

3ilvl lower

[gilded gulch]

yeah wasnt sure if its diff when catalyzed

[wintry dew]

it is

[gilded gulch]

ahh

[wary moss]

Huh I didn't notice that

[wintry dew]

https://tenor.com/view/eh-meh-jim-jim-halpert-the-office-gif-25317293

[gilded gulch]

yeah i remember mostly using it for offpieces that had weird itemization

in conquest

[wintry dew]

using hellbloom gear was the go to for the 2set in week 1 and week 2

[wary moss]

Oh well I'm sure the 6 total ilvl won't matter too much

[wintry dew]

but we are on week 5? most people that have no idea about tierset should have enough gear to catalyst

[fiery gorge]

Sub

[wintry dew]

2 set

4 set

[gilded gulch]

2set is like 30% in pvp

[wintry dew]

You'll want to run atleast 2set, not 100% sure on the 4set. 2set = using 2 pieces of tier; 4set = using 4 pieces of tier

[gilded gulch]

avidance and kalvish only play 2set

[worthy crag]

avidance is on cold blood goremaw build so he wouldnt want 4p anyway

[last jasper]

kalvish main and alt both on 4set

[gilded gulch]

wasnt he playing outlaw

[lucid citrus]

You can run 4 set since it has crit which is nice

[last jasper]

He played both yesterday. They all r still playing 4p. Nahj, trill etc

Except trill is playing shadowcraft rn

[gilded gulch]

idr if the 4p is pvp nerfed

[last jasper]

They all keep playing tea. And having extra crit is good

[fiery gorge]

Thx for the help

[jolly sierra]

look this af

[last jasper]

Wtf is this dh?)

[jolly sierra]

dunno but the fucking aff literal topped all rounds

[wary moss]

I keep hearing people say WW is cracked right now. Can anyone confirm?

Should I be dusting mine off? Lol

[wary moss]

Ohhh don't give me this kinda hope afflic is just about my favorite spec

[waxen meteor]

lol how the lock was able to swap spec

Oh wait one pic just simply didn’t grab any spec of lock

[waxen meteor]

Yea they very good

Now instead of rogue and DH

You start to see MM and WW anywhere

Over buff and over nerf

[jolly sierra]

just fought a ww and was meh

[jolly sierra]

XD

[waxen meteor]

WW dmg seems just steadily higher than expected

[gilded gulch]

i feel the same as i usually do about wws

[waxen meteor]

Not super overwhelmed

[gilded gulch]

most are really bad and dont know transcendence exists

good meme of playing monk alt and pre ropping self vs bad rogues and watching them look dumb as they try to open still

[fiery gorge]

I think it can have insane damage

my 2v teammate is ww monk rn

sometimes it happens that we get double kill with one burst xD

[gilded gulch]

how's ww has been since keefers became a thing

[fiery gorge]

Btw

Can I send here short arena videos and ask for advice ?

what I did wrong etc

[cosmic thistle]

iam so bad from 1.3k rating too 1.1k :):):):)

[jolly sierra]

sure

[waxen meteor]

Sure

Just don’t use panda UI

[jolly sierra]

XD

[fiery gorge]

I did not play rogue at all in Panda so ur lucky

[waxen meteor]

Did a shuttle today, I think BM is surely dead, and when stun is 3 seconds off DR, healer evoker flies in and stunned BM

Then game over

[jolly sierra]

he talks bout my UI

xd

XD

[waxen meteor]

And in R4, SP was completed dead in smoke bomb, then my monk healer circle kicked sp out from smoke

R5 before gate opened, SP thanked the monk

Had to chill with some sin 2s

High blood pressure sub game play

[cosmic thistle]

ok i learned this good opners after i use my rot addon kinda works fine tbh

[fiery gorge]

show

[cosmic thistle]

show?

[fiery gorge]

show opener

[cosmic thistle]

i use 2 first is sap heal cheap shot dance/tea garr rupture shiv cheap shot kb cheap shot envenom. For burst. Regular openor sap heal cheap shot kill target garr shiv rupture mutalite envenom 2x

[fiery gorge]

How do you know if its good to start with burst opener or normal opener and burst later ?

[cosmic thistle]

cause i get their trinkets down or there definsivs down and my team kan eaisly kill

depends

soemtimes they can survive ofc

[tired lagoon]

Whats the best talent tree for sub?

[fiery gorge]

There is no best a lot of things are up to preference and own playstyle but I think this one is decent

[frosty pond]

are these the two main trinkets you want to be using for general pvp? im doing more wpvp and bgs right now, not much arena

[tired lagoon]

Thankyou sir!

[waxen meteor]

Yes

But medallion has almost zero priority

[fiery gorge]

https://youtu.be/e0rpuGCXPqU

Any advice ?

[frosty pond]

what do you mean by zero priority? like it shouold be acquired last compared to other gear?

[waxen meteor]

Yes because it has almost no gain compared to the honor one

[frosty pond]

ah so there's just a cheaper alternative

[waxen meteor]

Yes

[fiery gorge]

just buy the honor trinkets and spend conquest on diff stuff

[frosty pond]

so get these two first then?

ok ty. literal just started to pvp in retail

is this just worse because you cant control when to use it or?

[waxen meteor]

Conquest Badge is very good

[fiery gorge]

if you're eu wanna duel a bit for practice ?

[frosty pond]

im NA

[fiery gorge]

yep, active one always better

[waxen meteor]

Because it gives crit instead of haste

@frosty pond

Do not use adaption that’s for the 3 years old

Or if you are human and want to use double trinket (I am not sure if it even works)

[lucid citrus]

Do you have a DR tracker?

[fiery gorge]

Defensive cooldown tracker ?

[waxen meteor]

I have to watch on computer but from mobile

[fiery gorge]

idk I have OmniCC OmniCD but idk how to set them up

[waxen meteor]

What I can say is

[lucid citrus]

No, Diminish Return Tracker

[waxen meteor]

First when you run into the light, you run back to pillar to try restealth

Do not keep walk in there and get sapped…

[fiery gorge]

what does that do

[waxen meteor]

And I feel you hardly use kidney and stun

But it could be from mobile I can’t see clearly

[fiery gorge]

cheap shot ?

[waxen meteor]

Marksman was not even stunned

Nor disarmed

[frosty pond]

ok ty bro

[waxen meteor]

You basically did none of what people expects from rogue I think

[fiery gorge]

yeah true

[waxen meteor]

And honestly the other rogue gave you a lot of space

[fiery gorge]

hard for me to transition from dk to rogue

[waxen meteor]

He sapped you and opened you

Which is already dumb

[fiery gorge]

why is that dumb ?

[waxen meteor]

Then he opened you without stun

So you can literally just dance cheap back in your first global and kill him or force trinket

But you used a backstab or sth on him, why?

[waxen meteor]

If he sapped you and went on your teammate it’s 2 on 1 for 8 seconds

And threw a blind to you to play 13 seconds of 2 on 1 easily

Monk has to use every cd or die

If you trinket sap or blind you are dead

Almost No class survive 13 seconds against sub + mm

Trinket + Major defensive both have to be used

[tired lagoon]

Just me that finds assas alot better than sub?

[waxen meteor]

Of course if you are pally or mage you can invincible without trinket

[tired lagoon]

Unless im just poop at sub xD

[waxen meteor]

Think sub is still a lot better atm

[fiery gorge]

Sub is just harder

[waxen meteor]

But it requires teammate

[fiery gorge]

and assa has more DPS imo

[waxen meteor]

Sin you can do with whatever cat and dog

[tired lagoon]

Yeah think assas is easier to play

[waxen meteor]

It’s easier

[fiery gorge]

outlaw easiest then assa then sub

but even outlaw is a bit hard compared to pala or warri

imo

[fiery gorge]

Is shift-3 good keybind for stun ?

or single key faster

[waxen meteor]

How can this be a question lol

[fiery gorge]

or doesnt matter if I can press shift+given key at same time

[waxen meteor]

It’s your hand, boss

[fiery gorge]

when I was playing in league amateur team

they called me "no-hands" 😎

[waxen meteor]

I use MMO mouse main key for kidney

V for cheap shot

But it’s totally personal pref

[fiery gorge]

I think objectivelly f8 is a bad keybind

[waxen meteor]

I don’t think anyone should use f8 lol

Or your hand is big as MJ

[fiery gorge]

Thanos hands

[waxen meteor]

I think my hand finds f8 slower than just left click a skill

But back to your video

First, you can just directly open back that rogue with dance cheap

Then open blade and bomb

Then burst him, 99% he would trinket

Or he die

That monk teammate might still hit a DR stun but that’s fine

At least you get your open and avoid hunter burst

Then after rogue trinket and use defensive, you can step kidney hunter and keep going

But obvisouly he can stun or disarm you then you would be chilling for a bit

————-
Since you didn’t dance cheap back, and blabla that’s go over your timeline

You vanished and SS teleport back to hunter

This is the time you want to do next global for kidney

In this way hunter is not dealing dmg to monk and immediately under huge threat

He either had to trinket or be 100-10 ish

Or expected the other rogue to step disarm you, but it’s not gonna happen based on how he opened you

So after vanish and SS if you dance blade kidney you still have a good shot to win

[jolly sierra]

ww monk is disgusting

either that

or i beat a pve geared guy in ss for 1750 MMR

[waxen meteor]

Tbh I think monk tried to peel for him

Oh you spoke for sth different

[jolly sierra]

yeah just went ww

[frosty pond]

what would you recommend grabbing first? should i just continue to save my conquest/honor or? just want to build a nice set for battlegrounds mainly

I have two Hellbloom pieces too

[waxen meteor]

Trinket

You must have two pvp trinket almost no exclusion it’s not tbc/wlk

[jolly sierra]

trinket

[waxen meteor]

Pve trinket is useless

[jolly sierra]

100%

[frosty pond]

this guy?

[waxen meteor]

Then main hand

Then you change everything

Your vers too low…

[frosty pond]

ok even though I already have 483 weps?

[waxen meteor]

I don’t know what those pve gears are

[jolly sierra]

u need a 489 wep

[waxen meteor]

But you have 16% vers

[frosty pond]

yeah it's a pve set pretty much lol

[waxen meteor]

You better play as r1 player

[frosty pond]

no no I haven't pvp'd until a couple days ago honestly

[waxen meteor]

PvP gear this point is around 486-487 item level

Pve gear doesn’t help unless they have item level 485+

And with good secondary stat

[jolly sierra]

or is ur OH

with versa mastery

[waxen meteor]

And I don’t know what your spec is yet but regardless sin/sub similar OMEGAKEKW:

[fading blade]

Idk why you held dance for so long. You gotta counter pressure. Could disarm MM and go rogue to force CDs then swap MM

[frosty pond]

OH

[waxen meteor]

OH is better than mine probably

That’s okay

[frosty pond]

MH

[waxen meteor]

Main hand is not good enough

I don’t even know what time strike does tbh

[frosty pond]

eh i think it's useless for pvp pretty much

just adds some damage

[waxen meteor]

So change that

And then you need a lot of more vers and a lot less haste

[frosty pond]

so trinket and then MH wep for me?

[waxen meteor]

Yeah and bind it with dance macro

Trinket alone might give you 20% more Hp

[frosty pond]

i swapped a couple pieces for more vers and got trinket

[waxen meteor]

It’s impossible for me to help on this since I know none of the pve gears

But overall your priority is to swap out the gear without mastery and vers

Swap from haste ones

Then sort by item level differences

[frosty pond]

ok so prio mastery/vers

[jolly sierra]

today isnt warrior day for me

all but warr won CR

specially both ret and WW

[last jasper]

Jeez, these spark quest are more and more idiotic. Ppl in a raid grp just sitting and killing everyone at graveyard for like an hour.

[waxen meteor]

Glad I am so done with that

[last jasper]

That was an alt. But still. Completed it with a quest and air drop. 🤡

[wild flint]

yo whats this addone

that shows the pvp ilvl

[worthy crag]

man, even with like 32% base crit rate (38% with symbols) sometimes its like 4 crits out of 13..

feels so bad when that happens

I need conq to be uncapped 😭

[wild flint]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ToyjG0Du2Y

when I enter the arena

[worthy crag]

after letting it sink in for a few days now, i feel like sub is pretty subpar post-nerf

Probably feels the most cc-bot since BFA season 4

where you just stack gushing wound and hope for lucky dot while you cc

[wild flint]

whaazz said today on stream he thinks outlaw and sub are the same level of good

but yeah not being able to one shot people is a big deal

thats why i changed to outlaw

[worthy crag]

I think its good, just not in terms of dmg output

or, we have dmg output but only with blades

[wild flint]

sub feels like it has too much downtime now

and not enough dmg to one shot with blades

idk maybe its just me

but its not the same

[worthy crag]

tbh i feel like i rather stay goremaw

i changed my pieces to tier on an impulse

to go brew

las tnight

last night

[frosty pond]

thats regular ilvl, not pvp specific

[wild flint]

well i see he has the trinkets

but my char page does not show pvp ilvl even in combat

only pve ilvl

[fading yacht]

what would be the difference between stacking for vers vs stacking more mastery? is vers just more survivability while mastery is more burst?

[wild flint]

depends which spec

outlaw doesnt like mastery while sub loves it

and i havent played assass

[fading yacht]

sorry, I was asking specifically for sub

[wild flint]

yeah i think u wanna stack as much mastery as u can

on sub

[fading yacht]

im trying to decide between the verdant gladiator's claws and hellbloom cudgel. hellbloom has more mastery

sounds like i should get the hellbloom cudgel

[wild flint]

from what i've seen they use conquest dagger in main hand and hellbloom cudgel in off hand

[fading yacht]

k thanks

should i be using my 4 set or just a two set ?

[wild flint]

sub's effectiveness got nerfed to 30%

but 4 set gives u extra combo points

which with shadow blades

means u get max combo points

so it's a big deal

i think with 4 set secret technique fills ur combo points

whereas without it they are empty after, not sure

but i mean yeah the stats are not exactly desireable for sub on the tier pieces

u want vers and mastery on everything

crit only has 50% effectiveness in pvp so it's kinda lame

[fading yacht]

thats why i was asking. doesnt have good stats

[wild flint]

yeah im not sure

i asked kalvish and he said it's def worth running

cuz he said crit is good on sub rogue this patch

[fading yacht]

well i guess i might as well try it

thanks!

[waxen meteor]

your expectation is a bit lower than 5 anyway… so 4 is a quite possible scenario…

[waxen meteor]

It’s a very tbd thing

Lots prefer mastery on off hand

But at the same time oh dagger allows you to trigger shadow tech a lot more often

Unless this methodology has been changed

[waxen meteor]

Said so right after text comes out it’s apparently a bad fix

Honestly it’s time to play some sin again

lol every season sub gets nerf nerf nerf till semi not playable for non top 1% player

[worthy crag]

Above all I just regret converting my set pieces :D

but it will not matter in a few weeks

[waxen meteor]

I will probably try more sin next weeks

[wild flint]

theres not a single sin

above 2156 rating in 2v2

i dont know anything about sin

but that speaks a lot about how good it is

in NA 2v2 highest sin is only 2140

next highest 2124

the top players are around 2450

[wary moss]

I did it, qued a game before bed went 4-2 got to 1621.

Now I can work on my monk lol

[waxen meteor]

Yeah don’t think sin is too good but I am not a big outlaw fan

May try it if vault gives me a weapon

[wild flint]

sin is holding its ground in solo shuffle

but in 2v2 it's a clear level below the other specs

so depends on what u play

[waxen meteor]

i play both but honestly 2s i am not expecting too much

just to cap or to play with friends

[wary moss]

......or I could learn to play sub instead of pushing my monk.... hmm..

[lucid citrus]

up to you man, sub is fun once you get the hang of it

[wary moss]

It does look sick. Did the nerfs hit hard?

[wild flint]

yeah

here's what Nahj wrote

on his channel

they not only nerfed evis dmg by 7.5% and set effectiveness from 50% to 30%, but also nerfed trinket from 120% agi to 112% agi

just so much dmg lost

[waxen meteor]

Sub is always like that

If you can’t do enough dmg for a real go

We have no threats to push other side to defense

Then it becomes a low speed push game, then we are just slow cooked by out damaged by a ton

Still playable if we rely on good teammates

But that takes a lot of fun away

[wild flint]

yeah

[waxen meteor]

Especially if you think about current wow

Solo is the mainstream

And looking for a destro or mage that burst with you

Yeah good luck

More likley you will get a DH and War screwing your stun DR and make it more miserable

[wild flint]

yeah orc screws u badly

cuz u cant cc lock him

[waxen meteor]

A spec highly rely on setup and kill window can be extremely frustrating when your teammate no on same page or screw you

[wild flint]

yeah that too

altho in 2v2

u should communicate with healer

[waxen meteor]

As I shard today I had a lobby. BM is surely dead in next go, 3 sec before stun went off DR, healer evoker used the flying stun thing for a 1/4 stun on BM cross half court. I was …..

Then r4, SP was basically dead on bridge, kidney in bomb and bm all dmg on him, sp had no trinket nor cd. But our healer monk decided to send a circle to knock SP down the bridge.

I had another heart attack

[wild flint]

yep thats why i dont play solo shuffle

[waxen meteor]

Just reasons not to play solo as sub

Spec is semi-dead now, in most popular mode for non top 1%players

They can always kiss healer’s ass to make it slow game

Just bring 20 mins arena back

[gleaming pawn]

you all should just be playing Outlaw anyway

[waxen meteor]

I would rather collect a set of gear working for sub + sin

I am not like you guys having alt of same class

You pros

[gleaming pawn]

nah clearly the move is to have full crit for Outlaw, and you can alt Sin with big crit 4-set/envenom build

[wild flint]

i like outlaw cuz there is no downtime

with sub without dance/blades/vanish u basically can only backstab which is pretty mediocre

it's like im pressing abilities but it doesnt feel like it matters

whereas with outlaw im always doing a constant source of dmg so it always matters

with sub it only matters if i got my big cooldowns otherwise the dmg is so pitiful

[lime oar]

You should just play warrior

[wild flint]

I dont wanna lose to mages

And to super high ranked hunters

Who are untouchable

[broken otter]

What's the play with Assassination when it comes to set bonus?

2/4set?

[hybrid rapids]

Hey chat, does shadowrunner stack with nelf racial passive?

[minor cape]

you are standing in nelf racial

how would it work

if you stealth after meld then yes

[hybrid rapids]

i mean the racial that says + movement speed while in stealth

[minor cape]

well, it doesn't work

but what's the difference, there is no movespeed in shadowmeld xd

oooh

fuck me

i'm stupid.

then don't see why the passive wouldn't work

[hybrid rapids]

Then nelf is the fastest while in stealth/dance

[minor cape]

the difference is minimal

tho

🤪

but idk, maybe it's some hidden interaction i don't know about, so i'm not sure

[marsh ridge]

as sub rogue, I dont understand the logic, I do 1/2 dps of most classes and my burst is dead. Are people still playing sub rogue after the change and enjoy the game?

my winrate is reduced drastically

[minor cape]

usual sub life?

gradually dying towards the end of season

guess im not coming back in this one xd

[marsh ridge]

I may be bad but having all cds fully used and not being able to kill an enemy for multiple times makes me question the class changes as well

our burst is bad

[minor cape]

well your teammate should help you to kill anyway

[marsh ridge]

in solo shuffle thats very very difficult

[minor cape]

yeah sub is impossible to enjoy in shuffle xd

[marsh ridge]

😄

[jolly sierra]

2set

[proven kayak]

I had to play before nerfs feels I don’t have any damage is it me or it is what it is

[jolly sierra]

maybe ppl does more dmg than u

i had a fucking lock scratching his balls topping dmg all the fkn match

as aff

with ww i was topping shit very easily too

but w assa i was seeing im doing less dmg than usual, ye

only the ccs makes the difference rn

[cosmic thistle]

this build good?

im thining taking away acrobatic strikes for cold blood is it worth?

[proven kayak]

Bro I was hitting a moonkin and he was meowing me while he was casting

[jolly sierra]

dude was fucking flexing

bruh

[wary moss]

Lol in full greens no gems or enchantments my monk bursts for 201k

Seems fine

[jolly sierra]

imagine me w full purples

[wary moss]

I'm gonna get my 2set and crafted gear after work today

[lucid citrus]

I would take out a point from tiny toxic blade and put it into serrated bone spike

[last jasper]

https://youtu.be/HXs5bEA6w1U?si=qqr_ZJ6oFpPZ8dQq

at least rogues are managed, right 😄

funny, how they nerfed trinket and still managed to make ww do 100k

[waxen meteor]

Kinda boring pace now

If there are 100 dps queue and 20 healer queue

Solution : make less dps queue and a bit more healer queue

Problem resolved

Now we have 50 dps and 25 healer queue

Genius

[proven kayak]

I’m the verge of start playing resto Druid must be fun to be immortal and heal 2 ppl without even casting

[jolly sierra]

had a ww in a SS match

was bad af

told the guy to just go for sp

went for the fucking dh

he ended 1-5

and just one topped the dps

had 2k1 illusion and shit

[wary moss]

He has the enchantment so clearly he knows better

/s

[wary moss]

Playing sin resto druid are the easiest for me to kill solo. A bunch of SS wins were just from me hard switching to the druid 😅

[jolly sierra]

guys which WA are u using to click filthy totems and psyfiends?

[wanton breach]

there's a weakaura for that?

[waxen meteor]

doing 2s RM, opened war to 1% mage dc ..

[jolly sierra]

ppl said that here

just used wa to put clickable icons

[cosmic thistle]

not a big fan of bone spike too many skills tbh

[lucid citrus]

But it’s an extra bleed damage though

[cosmic thistle]

nah getting that 200% more dmg shiv more is better asf

[last jasper]

Better blizzplates have it. Putting icons on totems etc

[cosmic thistle]

but its still good the spike but not for me

[jolly sierra]

its another addon?

[last jasper]

Yep

For adjusting nameplates. Adding sap icon, removing pet nameplates.

Took it from nahj

[cosmic thistle]

whats the fastest way too get honor?

[last jasper]

Playing pvp

[lucid citrus]

^^^

[cosmic thistle]

any game mode thats gicves more?