It might sound dumb and it can help especially for new players
#pvp
waxen meteor
Honestly even Rogue Mage can be really scripted
Kings bane is only 1 point talent it’s good for burst
And just one min cd with dance together all the time
steel scarab
I was wondering that, you think 1/2 Lethality and 1/1 Deeper Strategem?
waxen meteor
Move it to ER like me or move it to crit dmg like most
steel scarab
I would probably rather have ER, yeah good point
waxen meteor
I wouldn’t take 5% more slow, at 2s especially against caster you probably would like 3sec stealth skill thing
I would also not going to take slowness -15% duration
I might take feint dmg reduction over cheat death in 2s for sin
waxen meteor
For sin tree, I would change a lot
waxen meteor
is it halved in pvp?
Yes
steel scarab
😦
Annoying that Blizzard doesn't make it obvious in the tooltips which talents are nerfed in pvp
waxen meteor
Agree
It doesn’t seem to be a lot effort required thing
But can make people life 572837472 times easier
steel scarab
Yup. There should just be a drop down box that changes the tooltips to describe how they change in pve vs. pvp
Would be an incredibly low effort change
How would you change the assassination side talents?
waxen meteor
it seems you invested a lot of points on poison triggers
I personally don't see the value of those
steel scarab
Dashing Scoundrel and Twist the Knife?
waxen meteor
but i did very few 2s with healer this season as Sin, basically just trying to cap vault quickly
I didn't take any of these
i think you need bone spike
I am a bit questionable on right side talents in 2s with healer, but it depends on your team, and how often you put dots on second target
steel scarab
I did just switch out of TTK to Amplifying Poison
We coordinated our CC as you suggested
steel scarab
AP instead of the 10% bleed talent?
So Zoldyck and AP instead of Scent of Blood and Sudden Demise?
steel scarab
Seems reasonable
I read in some places that Scent of Blood is really powerful combined with the agility % increase with the 2 piece trinket bonus
but idk
I am not a mathemetician
waxen meteor
at 2s i think most times it's just 3%
between the ccs or when you go healers, it's optional 6%
steel scarab
I think the way you look at it is
steel scarab
Scent is 4% agi increase, and then Sudden Demise is 10% bleed damage
Versus, AP only helps when Shiv is up, and Zoldyck only helps when they're low
Is Zoldyck nerfed in pvp at all? the values?
Or the % threshold?
waxen meteor
no it's 35%
if you do cc chain with hpal well i think you guys can push target below 35% in the cc chain time
steel scarab
Reasonable! I will try it now
jolly bear
is Venruki a clown or actually valid?
wintry dew
He complains a lot but used to / still is a great pvper
jolly bear
I just watched a video he posted on youtube like 2 days ago and he talks about the issues of pvp and why no one is playing andf hes right
basically what he said is why i stopped
and ive been only doing m+
wintry dew
Huge queus, no inflation, meta specs dominating?
jolly bear
pretty much
actually
he didnt mention meta specs
but its like, it was more of a no reason to play video not a balance video
and how the structure needs to change bc 2200 now and 2200 near the end are two totally different things
wintry dew
The inflation thing is really big for those who want to climb 3v3 for glad mounts
jolly bear
yeah but what about the first 5 months of the season lol
I feel like if they lowered the reqs for those mounts or whatever and made the game actually fun, and the queue times acceptable, then everyone would be okay
anyone who thinks the rewards should be gatekept is delusional lol
wintry dew
The problem with queue times is the lack of healers
jolly bear
I dont know how to fix that issue without making healers op
wintry dew
Also, no inflation early means you will play vs R1s, multiglads, AWC (?) Champions, at 2k mmr
jolly bear
Also, no inflation early means you will play vs R1s, multiglads, AWC (?) Champio...
isnt that whats happening now
wintry dew
That's exactly what's happening yes
jolly bear
yeah why is that a problem is what im wondering
if theyre that good they should be that rating
wintry dew
Pretty much my opinion yes
jolly bear
idk why pushing them down to 2400 when they should be 3k+ is a solution they thought of lol
it makes everyone miserable
wintry dew
I wonder how much rating are ppl gaining from winning at 2400/2500
jolly bear
they really do be neglecting tf out of pvp
fiery gorge
For pvp sub rogue
Agility > Versatility > Mastery > Crit > Haste, right ?
What does versatility do
marsh ridge
agi > mastery > versa > crit
thorn pond
what does mastery do for sub rogue ?
It increases crit damage
cosmic thistle
guys i must be doing seomthign very wrong iam doing a good amount of dps in ss and i stil lose round either cause my healer cant heal me or they healer just insta heal them back too full hp what am i doing wrong cause i cant be with such a bad healer all the time it must be me right?
wintry dew
You play 3 rounds with each healer
So if one of them is bad, you'll play 3x with the good one
Also good dmg as a rogue doesn't translate to doing well in arena
Rogue specifically tends to be a set up class, we want to do our dmg in determined windows
It doesn't matter If you pressure the enemy team really well if there is no win condition
mortal jay
WTB a target calculator. click your three specs, click enemy three specs, it outputs kill target. lol
cosmic thistle
@wintry dew somethign i havent really done is stun the healer often and take bleeds on diffrent people is that important. or when i stun healer it just take it away with some evasion
wintry dew
Ahm
If you're playing assa
It's pretty much your job in SS to rot their team, aka garrote/rupture multiple targets. This will end up giving you huge energy gains due to all the bleed dmg going on,
Also stun blind healer is something you will want to try whenever possible
(obviously without healer being on Dr)
mortal jay
1 thing I read in a book, or saw on a youtube video, or learned by osmosis, or something, as assass, we have slightly less mobility, less vanishes etc than say.. sub. you may occassionally find yourself peeled off your ideal target. use that opportunity to garrote/rupture/poison, everyone and their mother on your way back to your target while looking for an opportunity to step to him. never be not bleeding because you tunnel visioned
also.. don't dance, deathmark, kingsbane a rogue who hasn't used cloak.
thats a thing I learned too
cosmic thistle
It's pretty much your job in SS to rot their team, aka garrote/rupture multiple ...
OMG WHY HAVE I NEVER THINKED OF THAT
wintry dew
Now go back to queu and try new stuff
cosmic thistle
won 2 games now first 4 wins second 5 wins
mortal jay
i can't come to terms with cheat death over elusiveness
cosmic thistle
@wintry dew Tho i have a problem it just hard too dop bleeds on diffrent people lets say i meet a hunter with mobs my tab is going too fuck me up and it hard in the heet of battle too change targets but iguess i will learn
mortal jay
"evasion also reduces damage taken by 20 percent (aka non physical damage that got through the dodging) and feint reduces non area of effect damage by 20%" feels far too valuable for a spell with 2 charges, a short cooldown,
wintry dew
<@256188402116984832> Tho i have a problem it just hard too dop bleeds on diff...
There's hotkey to "tab player enemies"
You can switch your tab for that
mortal jay
indeed
wintry dew
Doesn't don't forget to turn it back again if you go PvE xD
cosmic thistle
nah pve is trash dont like it
wintry dew
Then there's an hotkey for that
cosmic thistle
do uknow maybe where in settins that can be? so much shit in settings
mortal jay
keybindings > targetting
didn't there used to be an addon to switch you back and forth automagically?
cosmic thistle
switched it too target nearest enmy player thats right right?
mortal jay
as an aside, I have bound tab to nearest enemy player, and button 5 n my mouse to target nearest enemy . being able to quickly target atotem or some such is useful
aye
target nearest enemy player
pastel burrow
There's hotkey to "tab player enemies"
Been playing this minigame (PvP) for so long and i had no idea about this option, bless u Royal
cosmic thistle
@wintry dew worked pretty well 5 wins could have gotten 6 if i ditn have a healer that got 1 shotted
wintry dew
Been playing this minigame (PvP) for so long and i had no idea about this option...
This has a problem tho, you can't target pets, totems, etc.
wintry dew
<@256188402116984832> worked pretty well 5 wins could have gotten 6 if i ditn h...
As an assa rogue we don't have many defensives, but we can spread pressure really well, and shiv applies to all targets around you, increasing the nature and bleed dmg by 30%. You can literally bleed a team to death
pastel burrow
Yeah I can do that with my mouse fine when it's important, it's just if I tab target a pet one more time while trying to go for a player I'll blow my brains out
wintry dew
... I know the feeling so fucking well.
cosmic thistle
is kb really op right now? death dance kb tea shiv envonm dead it feels toooo op
i always use my cloack of shadows so i can fully burst them
wintry dew
Kb is when you kill people, but you gotta set it up well
wintry dew
i always use my cloack of shadows so i can fully burst them
Not smart
Because if you can't kill them, you're literally defenseless
Cloak + cloak pvp talent makes you almost literally immune to everything
cosmic thistle
people said rogue was hard it dosent seem so hard i played a diffrent game as rogue and holy fuck rogue was hard maybe thats why i learn so fast xd
wintry dew
How high are you rn, rating?
cosmic thistle
1.2k 💀
wintry dew
Yeah...
That's were every player is when they start playing pvp xD
Once you reach like 1.8/2.1/2.4 you'll see difficulty bumps
cosmic thistle
its just a bit werid playing a mmo where i dont weave and stuff
cosmic thistle
Aion classic
wintry dew
I have no knowledge about that game
cosmic thistle
well its not fun cause as rogue u need crazy knowledge and mechanichs
got too top 100 then i quit was too ahrd
wintry dew
Same here
mortal jay
game knowledge, knowing every single other classes major spells, knowing when to cloak, and when to simply los, knowing whether to dismantle or evasion, knowing to hold your kick on that rando ass spell, because that priest is about to cast mindgames, etc.. is the difference between 1200 and 1800. don't be too satisfied where ya at
being able to step kick your focus target, blind the other dps, kidney smoke your kill target and burst the kill target because you know he has blown all of his cds, is the difference between 1800 and 2100
being 40, and not being 40 is the difference between 2100 and 2400. lol
wintry dew
40?
mortal jay
old people reflexes/muscle memory aint what they were when we were 20
wintry dew
Oh 40yo
I'm 28 and I already struggle in pvp. So all I do is get to 1.8 asap and quit arena
Reached 2.2 as rogue in SS in s1
scarlet shell
I am 21 and I forgot how I got to play this game
wintry dew
And 2.3 with a ret S1 aswell
mortal jay
tbf, its probably more as an old people I work 40 to 50 hours a week, do adulting for 3 or 4 hours a day, sleep 8 hours because if I dont i cant function, and end up with limited time to hone those reflexes and muscle memory
mortal jay
yeah. honestly I've worked a 40 hour + week since I was 17.. but I used to be able to work 40, sleep 4, and game 8
if I were to try to go into work on 4 hours sleep I would fall asleep on the job
wintry dew
I don't sleep 4 but 6/7 is my normal
scarlet shell
I don’t understand how a working person subject themselves into waiting 30 or more minutes in LFG
mortal jay
wash dishes, do laundry, vacuum the fan, queue pops, play game, sweep the kitchen, watch yutube video , queu pops
etc
cosmic thistle
@mortal jay whats ur ank?
wintry dew
wash dishes, do laundry, vacuum the fan, queue pops, play game, sweep the kitche...
My life xDDD But I'm done with pvp this season
cosmic thistle
what rank do i need to eb too get the elite set?
wintry dew
1800
cosmic thistle
ok ez i get there today
cosmic thistle
better than this
wintry dew
(it's only transmog, you don't actually get items)
Remove headpiece, put a Blackshirt, place a blackish tabard
Done
scarlet shell
you are a tabard collector/lover are ya
wintry dew
Yes
cosmic thistle
u think i have trasnmogs playign for 1,5 weeks 😦
scarlet shell
Not even my guild that I have been since with at the very start
wintry dew
I play this game for transmog
scarlet shell
same
wintry dew
pastel burrow
BRO death mantle is iconic
wintry dew
This is my set currently, full set tbf
pastel burrow
We love the skull mask here
scarlet shell
S2 set is perfection
Shredder gaming
Now if they allow the other two rogues to wear fist weapons…
wintry dew
S1 could be much better than it was, but they decided on weird stuff on the headpiece/chestpiece
pastel burrow
Yeah this is legit just what i use plus the frostwolf tabard, S2 elite is easily one of the best rogue sets in a while
cosmic thistle
i want cool trasnmog toooo but idk anyone cool or how to get 😦
scarlet shell
I copy from others
I admit that
I look at a Nelf rogue armoury that walks past me and I am inspired or it looks bad
wintry dew
i want cool trasnmog toooo but idk anyone cool or how to get 😦
Check transmog channel, I'm pretty much Always there
pastel burrow
Tmog channel has a lot of mint outfits made by folks and people are v helpful
scarlet shell
The most recent picture I sent in that channel man I can’t wait to come home and play more of it
wintry dew
As long as people accept criticism we can come up with pretty good mogs
wanton breach
first time solo shuffle as assa this season, tried to aoe AP+SD build, insane damage against melee cleaves
feels weird though to not have DTB
waxen meteor
I dont know how to fix that issue without making healers op
Making healer OP is useless
The key is to make healer skill difference more impactful
Use an extreme example, You can even make healer simply not killable in arena, will it make more people play healer?
jolly bear
Making healer OP is useless
healers want to be op lol they’re dumb
waxen meteor
That’s very surface reason imh
They need more impact from skill with another healer
Now either cap is too big between players that ends up with 60
Or mostly dps determinss
jolly bear
I don’t know they’re just very entitled in my experience and if they’re the reason no one can score a kill without them being cc’d then… obviously they’re gonna be the target of cc so what do they really want? it comes with the territory
waxen meteor
You sit there healing, good by bad, result is not determined by you
cosmic thistle
is it worth playing with crimson tempest?
wintry dew
No
jolly bear
not unless you’re running mythic plus
waxen meteor
This is pvp channel 
jolly bear
I feel like you could give healers everything they ask for and it would still not be enough
jolly bear
i asked a pvp question
he was talking to me don’t worry lol
waxen meteor
I am answering tesota
cosmic thistle
oh xd
waxen meteor
waxen meteor
I feel like you could give healers everything they ask for and it would still no...
Yes because their request is not real
cosmic thistle
is there anything i should change in this build?
jolly bear
is there anything i should change in this build?
change the blue sprint to smoke bomb
cosmic thistle
u sure??
jolly bear
100%
cosmic thistle
what does smoke bomb dont really understand what they are trying too say
jolly bear
so when you throw it down right
anyone outside the smoke bomb can’t target anyone in the smoke bomb and vice versa
cosmic thistle
oh op
jolly bear
so if you smoke bomb a dps and the healer isn’t inside of it, he can’t heal them until he steps in or the dps steps out
cosmic thistle
so when i cast that kidney shot?
jolly bear
or if you are against a mage and they’re tryna kill you you can smoke bomb and they can’t target you unless they get close to you
jolly bear
so when i cast that kidney shot?
if you’re going for a kill
jolly bear
Yes because their request is not real
I look at healers like I look at the typical girl. you can ask them what they want, they can tell you what they want, but what they actually want is something completely different and they don’t even know it so you just have to go with what YOU know and ignore them because they don’t know what they want lol
waxen meteor
I look at healers like I look at the typical girl. you can ask them what they wa...
Well sort of yeah in a way (but no offensive way)
Girl: why don’t you buy me LV
Blizzard: now I give everyone LV
Girl next time: why don’t you buy me something else
The real problem is the separation betweeen girls
Not to supply everything on the planet to them
jolly bear
The real problem is the separation betweeen girls
the real problem is blizzard doesn’t talk to girls 😔
cosmic thistle
healers in this elo fking suck its isnane
jolly bear
healers in this elo fking suck its isnane
and they will tell you you’re the problem
if you get into things and you think everyone else is the problem every time, I’m just sayin man you’re the only constant
more healers need to realize that
that’s why I spam hella questions and read and watch videos
cosmic thistle
iam doing so much dps and stunning and all and no fkign heal for me:) love it
ok the smoke bomb is op
jolly bear
good morning
jolly sierra
good morning
jolly bear
sorry I’m just mad I can’t pvp without wasting hours in queue
jolly sierra
u get used to q times after a time
jolly bear
if I wanna do a key my party fills in less than 10 minutes usually about 5
it’s just no contest
jolly bear
I know you are
I can’t justify the queue times to myself
so I just don’t play as much as I’d like to 😔
jolly sierra
me neither
maybe today its the time to be able to play as usual
i wont work overtime this week
finally
last jasper
maybe today its the time to be able to play as usual
I doubt mate. It’s Monday. Yesterday was quite fast q’s. Less than 10 min
jolly sierra
I doubt mate. It’s Monday. Yesterday was quite fast q’s. Less than 10 min
yeah work took all my fkn day
jolly bear
Need to double CR gain/loss for dps
lol honestly I think they should just fix the healer mmr because as fucked as it is for us it’s worse for them, I will agree with that
scarlet shell
Listen
Just allow the healer to be right
Maybe they are wrong yes, but they will throw a fit and quit
And I ain’t waiting 20 years for a shuffle pop
jolly sierra
dammit i really like to reply them back
fucking arrogant crybabies
i recall one i reply him back and just afked
wary moss
I'm at 1540 in RSS... hopefully I can get 1600 doing my vault cap this week. Get my free gear and then chill till inflation lol
Work on my warrior and shaman in the meantime
scarlet shell
i recall one i reply him back and just afked
I just reply “ok lol” or “XD”
I don’t stretch it further there is no point and will make them afk or play troll bad
jolly sierra
i report them just in case
XD
but yeah, even w that they plays like shit
because they just blame other ones instead themselves
wary moss
On Saturday I killed a resto druid 3 rounds in a row and they quit. Wish I could have seen the chat on the other team lol
scarlet shell
“Says something unintelligible” I always assume something bad was said
waxen meteor
I sort of love playing with destro now
Man if destro hit one bolt in bomb target is basically dead in second go
wary moss
I sort of love playing with destro now
It feels like a real comp!
waxen meteor
If they hit two, man you die in def wall
wary moss
I have also been really like running with destro
Also a plus they go for the lock most of the time lol
steel scarab
To fix queue times, couldn't they just make it so games can start with no healer in it?
I mean if you win 6 matches in a shuffled game that has no healer in it, are you not still the best player?
So if no healers are queueing, why not just make it so games can fire off with no healers in them?
stoic spruce
I mean if you win 6 matches in a shuffled game that has no healer in it, are you...
Not really
steel scarab
It should either be 1 healer on each team, or no healers at all
stoic spruce
Because of there's no healer, some specs are at a huge advantage
steel scarab
That's literally true of healers though too
Some specs suffer more than others into healers
stoic spruce
Not really. With healers, you're forced to trade CDs and cross CC
There's a level of skill and knowledge involved
steel scarab
Let me put it a different way. What's better, sitting in queue for an hour or playing 5 games in that hour where it's all DPS
stoic spruce
Sitting in queue for an hour
jolly sierra
I mean if you win 6 matches in a shuffled game that has no healer in it, are you...
no
have u seen games with prot pallies?
steel scarab
No, I haven't
stoic spruce
It's exactly what you're describing
stoic spruce
And its not fun at all
steel scarab
Classify prot pally as a healer
stoic spruce
It is
stoic spruce
In shuffle, prot pally is considered a healer and they only queue into other prot pallys.
steel scarab
Okay, I understand the first part
jolly sierra
prot paladins
players themselves
doesnt know how to defend their partners
so u rely in urself
steel scarab
But why the second part? Why do they only queue into other prot paladins? That seems so unfair
jolly sierra
their spec is also not intended to heals
stoic spruce
Because they're not legitimate healers
stoic spruce
Ye
steel scarab
So does that mean their queue time is insane?
jolly sierra
they are bootleg healers
steel scarab
Since they can only queue into one specific opponent?
jolly sierra
and a bootleg healer plus a real healer
would be unfair advantage
so they have their own q
stoic spruce
I can't imagine the prot pal queues are that fast
steel scarab
Okay so couldn't they just do what they do with most classes, which is prune the heck out of their PvP healing and up their damage?
jolly sierra
even with as toxic they are
we need them
the healers
if they wanna make them play more, then just toss them a purse with runes and gold
jolly sierra
pvp players are the real minority so it wont affect economy
stoic spruce
Healers really should just be OP and dps should just have to deal with it imo.
steel scarab
You're allowed to queue for 2v2 as 2 DPS, right?
stoic spruce
Yes
jolly sierra
yes
stoic spruce
Yes
scarlet shell
Just fix the healer rating it’s a no brainer
jolly sierra
yes
scarlet shell
Let healing be enjoyable so more healers can come in
jolly sierra
wait zambie let him finish
steel scarab
So why not just make it so sometimes solo queue has no healers in it
scarlet shell
wait zambie let him finish
sorry to intrude
jolly sierra
dont worry
stoic spruce
Specs like Outlaw and Arms cannot function without a healer
tribal badger
So why not just make it so sometimes solo queue has no healers in it
im all for this
every single arms warrior would lose 500 rating
overnight
make this change blizzard
xd
jolly sierra
im fucked as assa too
stoic spruce
Assa too
jolly sierra
if that its made a change
stoic spruce
Most specs really
stoic spruce
So much extra stress for hybrids lol
steel scarab
Right but like, some specs aren't intended to queue as 2 DPS, but the game will still let me queue as that comp in 2v2. Like, I don't think rogue hunter is viable in 2v2, but the game lets me queue as that comp
tribal badger
well they dont care about 2v2
jolly sierra
with a not viable comp
tribal badger
3v3 is the real "pvp" that they actually tune the game around
jolly sierra
in 2s
steel scarab
Here's another example
tribal badger
u will never see balancing changes made with 2s in mind
steel scarab
I can queue as 3 rogues in 3v3
tribal badger
so solo shuffle follows the same format as the pvp they balance around
steel scarab
I can't imagine that's viable
stoic spruce
Right but like, some specs aren't intended to queue as 2 DPS, but the game will ...
The game isn't balanced around 2v2
steel scarab
But I can do that
tribal badger
yes u can
jolly sierra
it topped an AWC
tribal badger
but ud do awfully
jolly sierra
what is ur point?
tribal badger
generally speaking
steel scarab
Right but you have to be a genius player
steel scarab
To do 3v3 with 3 roguez
jolly sierra
of time
tribal badger
pvp is balanced around 3s with 2 dps and 1 healer
steel scarab
Rogues*
tribal badger
which is why thats what solo shuffle is
because if u removed all healers from them sometimes, you would massively lower the W/R of certain classes/specs
that are not designed to function in an arena without a healer
arms is a great example of this
stoic spruce
pvp is balanced around 3s with 2 dps and 1 healer
Except when it's to nerf dks. Then it's balanced around random bgs.
steel scarab
Arms is a faceroll spec anyway
Okay, that's actually a good example
Isn't it unfair that as a rogue, it's much harder, I would say objectively harder, to climb in arenas where a healer is expected, versus arms warrior or DH, where they're basically designed to just stick to a target and faceroll while being healed?
stoic spruce
That's entirely up to tuning
steel scarab
Rogue does really well into no healer I feel, because of our cc kit
tribal badger
because our avoidances r full avoidances
stoic spruce
In 2s, sure. But that's a meme bracket
tribal badger
100% dodge, vanishing to avoid damage, cloak
anything with immunities and hard resets generally does ok without a healer
scarlet shell
That PvP cloak talent is so stupid
stoic spruce
It's based
scarlet shell
Why was it approved it’s illegal
Just threw out so many problems with that one talent lmao
steel scarab
It was probably approved because arena games with a healer last five minutes now
And they needed to give rogues something to stay alive when the other person is being bomb healed lol
stoic spruce
Just threw out so many problems with that one talent lmao
Good B)
twin burrow
It's based
what does this mean
steel scarab
When I play against arms + healer in 2v2 it is not fun as a rogue
twin burrow
so is solo
steel scarab
Right but like
stoic spruce
When I play my rogue, I want to give my opponent the worst experience imaginable and that talent helps with that.
scarlet shell
Dodge and removes bleeds from ferals arms and other rogues lol
steel scarab
I don't understand how you can say 2v2 isn't balanced
tribal badger
sure but solo is at least designed around the style of pvp they do pvp tuning for
2dps/1healer
when i say its not balanced
steel scarab
When tons of 3v3 comps are just not viable
twin burrow
it may be balanced but the real pvp experience is 3v3
tribal badger
i mean they dont generally make pvp tuning changes around the 2s bracket
it just sorta ends up however it is with the 3s focused tuning
scarlet shell
Man I want to find the dude that played outlaw with my Destro in 3s
jolly sierra
I don't understand how you can say 2v2 isn't balanced
because
blizzard balances the pvp
around 3s
and SS
jolly sierra
dude give up we wont change our reasoning about not q w healers in SS
stoic spruce
CD/CC trading isn't as prevalent
steel scarab
Is that like
steel scarab
Super different from 3v3?
stoic spruce
Yes, very.
waxen meteor
Most game balance is built based on 3s
steel scarab
Do you guys remember 5v5 arena?
waxen meteor
But personally I don’t mind if they want to focus on 2s without healer
stoic spruce
No one played 5s because of how bad it was.
steel scarab
They used to say that was the most "fair" arena. Do you know why people would say that? Because it was so absolutely chaotic that it was impossible to balance
scarlet shell
Maybe they should nerf the effect of Dampening perhaps?
stoic spruce
That was a temporary solution btw
stoic spruce
They used to say that was the most "fair" arena. Do you know why people would sa...
No one ever said it was fair.
scarlet shell
I don’t know which way it goes
steel scarab
The reason 3v3 is more "balanced" than 2v2 isn't really because they're designing the experience specifically for 3v3, it's more like, it becomes more obvious when the game is unfair the fewer people are involved in it
stoic spruce
Whoever "they" are ate dirt for breakfast.
steel scarab
Right, that's kind of my point. The fewer players there are, the better our class is
The more, the worse
tribal badger
The reason 3v3 is more "balanced" than 2v2 isn't really because they're designin...
no it is because they design the experience for 3v3
they almost explicetly only do pvp tuning around 3v3 statistics
2v2 is considered a meme bracket because they dont rlly look at it for any tuning
jolly sierra
Imagine a 1v1 arena
so the BFA feature where u duel into an arena?
stoic spruce
Why do you think solo shuffle is 3v3?
tribal badger
does anything in the game beat sub 1v1 rn
steel scarab
It's what our class is best at
tribal badger
subs won like every duel tourny this expac hasnt it
the spec is just not ethical in 1v1s
tribal badger
ret? maybe if the 1v1 involved no los
sub just inifinitly resets vs ret until they are out of immunities
then kills them in the normal sequence
jolly sierra
yeah, with los they are fucked
but would seriously consider them in a high tier
too
if 1s is a thing
stoic spruce
For sure
waxen meteor
1on1 arena has to be no pillar lol
jolly sierra
just put a pillar in mid
tribal badger
i think the top duel classes from the tournies this expac have been rogue (sub), survival hunter and mages mostly
jolly sierra
or make them fight in gurubashi
tribal badger
stuff like ret just gets kited too hard
tribal badger
survivals also a pretty great duel spec
jolly sierra
ret is midrange
stoic spruce
or make them fight in gurubashi
Which one is that? Not good with names
jolly sierra
after rework
jolly sierra
Which one is that? Not good with names
the first free for all arena
tribal badger
or just outranging
jolly sierra
in stranglethorn
jolly sierra
jolly sierra
just imagine
stoic spruce
survivals also a pretty great duel spec
Bro, survival is one of those specs where it can be so OP but it flies so low under the radar becausw only 12 people play it.
steel scarab
Just to keep people able to play
steel scarab
Instead of waiting in a queue
stoic spruce
That'd be a cool brlaw
jolly sierra
XDDDD
tribal badger
Bro, survival is one of those specs where it can be so OP but it flies so low un...
yeee
marks is more "fun" in random pvp especially cause u can just sit 50 yards away and vibe sniping people down
but survivals got a really strong pvp kit and just does alot of damage
stoic spruce
I have seen more bdks than surv hunters
waxen meteor
In random bg marksman is god mode lol
jolly sierra
because i killed him too much w KB
stoic spruce
In outdoor huh?
tribal badger
i had an interesting experience last night
queued some shuffle at 2250 mmr and got into a game with supatease healing
stoic spruce
IN outdoor
tribal badger
so i turned into his stream between rounds and he was saying "what is this outlaw doing that no other outlaw is doing?? is he hacking"
jolly sierra
IN outdoor
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
tribal badger
because i was doing 120k details dps after a 4 minute match
and I was like wait wtf am i doing
it was a full cloth lobby
jolly sierra
dont mock my secondary language using REEEEEEEE
stoic spruce
Lmao
stoic spruce
Truly
tribal badger
i was just 2-3 target cleaving a priest/lock every round
doing DH sustain dps
running the healers into the ground
jolly sierra
so i turned into his stream between rounds and he was saying "what is this outla...
once had a guy
who was trying to report me
because i 1 shotted him in BFA
with a macro with blood of the enemy, a trinket and vendetta or some shit like that
the guy just exploded insta
tribal badger
bro bfa prepatch? was it? when they first added exsanguinate
sin prepatch pvp was absolutely wild
jolly sierra
nope
tribal badger
garrote > rupture > exsang > walk away and watch them bleed out in 5 seconds
jolly sierra
BFA during dazal alor season
tribal badger
confused look on their faces
jolly sierra
i used the yulon trink
scarlet shell
1v1 will just be rogues and other stealth characters
stoic spruce
Oh I played 2s the other night against a BM/Feral and I was like "I'll just beam down the bm" and when I finally got the hunter to turtle, I swapped to feral and that dude was almost dead lmaooo. I said to my healer "were you attacking the druid??" She said that she was just healing me. Well after the arena I look at details and that mfer got brought down to 30% on cleave alone.
tribal badger
ya i mean dh is literally just all ur buttons aoe
stoic spruce
So anyways dont balance around 2v2
tribal badger
so anything near ur target is dying at the same time
stoic spruce
Dh is dumb
Did I tell you about the dream where I pinged realz and went off on him for the state of DH being the way it is?
jolly sierra
how important has to be
tribal badger
class is just silly zoominess
tribal badger
dh and ele r the two vaults i have most fun capping each week
deva is a distint third
jolly sierra
i rlly hate rng specs
waxen meteor
Yeah playing DH and enjoy a bit zugzug is curing sometimes
scarlet shell
At least Realz fixed the problem of Momentum
Intertia is so good
But that’s a PvE thing
waxen meteor
Especially after someone ruins our stun DR out of nowhere
I found a nice post on lock pvp discord
stoic spruce
No way
jolly sierra
WHY U SO BAD ROGUE
jolly sierra
can understand the guy which stuns with another kidney when u do the same shortly after
but not the dumbass which tosses the storm bolt in first DR
gleaming pawn
Well now, this morning was certainly interesting with the bad takes. Glad I missed it and had to review after the fact
jolly sierra
Well now, this morning was certainly interesting with the bad takes. Glad I miss...
in this discord u say?
gleaming pawn
Shocking I know, but generally our channel is not so much about the bad takes, and more just people asking the same questions ad nasueum 🙂
jolly sierra
tbh
i refused to help the other assa guy
after he started asking the same shit over and over again without read anything
pov im w assa
wintry dew
Shocking I know, but generally our channel is not so much about the bad takes, a...
Wait I was here early, was it something I said?
gleaming pawn
That’ll be a fun match for you
jolly sierra
yeah
waxen meteor
pov im w assa
You are one of the very few don’t use color by classes
waxen meteor
3 green boxes and 3 red ones 
jolly bear
I use gladiusex
hehe
also you guys were right, hella specs would be fucked in ss without a healer and all balance would go right out the window
destroy the little integrity solo shuffle has left
jolly bear
exactly
jolly sierra
You are one of the very few don’t use color by classes <:pepe_fence:825666455743...
ye im kind of psycho
OH NICE I LOVE THIS
l2p
jolly bear
-300
jolly sierra
while the pets does the job
jolly bear
-600
gleaming pawn
I wish I could say solo RBG queue will help and be nice, since you only need 2-4 healers total depending on how Blizzard wants to balance the matches. But healers will stop queuing solo RBG pretty fast too
waxen meteor
while the pets does the job
Nothing wrong 
waxen meteor
I wish I could say solo RBG queue will help and be nice, since you only need 2-4...
That mode doesn’t even exist
gleaming pawn
It’s on the way
waxen meteor
Not counted towards vault 
jolly sierra
yeah dunno why
that would improve a lot the stuff
if literal LFR
its easier
to cap
waxen meteor
It’s like literally wasting time
The only thing it does is provide some quick conquest on Tuesdays
scarlet shell
BM hunters doing more damage than my entire rotation by simply pressing barbed shot off cool-down
jolly bear
not playing until conquest cap is removed and inflation starts puttin in work
scarlet shell
End of season moments
jolly bear
that’s what I said
scarlet shell
lol yeah there isn’t much incentive to play rn
Just play Spider-Man 2 or BG3 worth the moneys
waxen meteor
Btw how was your ping?
waxen meteor
Kkk
jolly sierra
scarlet shell
I prefer hyenas
Season 2 I played BM (free spec btw) and was cosplaying that brsckenhide boss
jolly sierra
the gnoll from end?
scarlet shell
Yeah the literal beast mastery Hunter with masters call and hyena
stoic spruce
panda
scarlet shell
Funny how first boss is an Arms Warrior, Sub Rogue and Resto Shaman
A literal disaster 3v3 team
stoic spruce
I forgor 💀
jolly sierra
eksdee
jolly sierra
not a fan but i hear a little of all
wary moss
Do people not like music?
jolly sierra
OST, latin shit, rock, metal, pop, dubstep or some weeb stuff
not some specific genre
but i lean more toward jazz and bossa nova
scarlet shell
I listen to a lot of video game osts
fading blade
2.1 as sin was aids af
jolly sierra
yeah persona ones hits hard when u play
cosmic thistle
when i start a ss and first rounds should i just get bleeds on all 3 enemys and then focus a target or is there something else i should do here?
jolly sierra
we are gangbanging a dh here
funny af
boo hoo
0 CR even winning 4
last leave fucked me up
gleaming pawn
Hmmm Disc Priesr or Resto Druid for my alt this season
cosmic thistle
HOW FKING MUCH MORE DPS DO I NEED
scarlet shell
Did you stun the enemy before they can pray on your other team mates?
DPS is one thing but you gotta support your team etc
cosmic thistle
Did you stun the enemy before they can pray on your other team mates?
sap kidney shot everythign all time i always end up like this
scarlet shell
Unlucky then
jolly sierra
damn quality dropped hard
but anyways
wait
now, needed to cut the parts w me, but are irrelevant btw
wintry dew
bro, im honestly amazed you can play like that with all the DRS and CDS on top of their head and you havent even turned off "error Speech" xD
"fuera de alcance"
jolly sierra
bro, im honestly amazed you can play like that with all the DRS and CDS on top o...
HAHAHAHAHAHA
got used dood
wintry dew
AND PUT YOUR DRAGON RIDING SIGILS ON THE DAMN TALENT TREE! xD
jolly sierra
XDDDDDDDD
stoic spruce
:C
scarlet shell
Still trying to do Orgim hero myself
last jasper
Fckin hell. Waited 30 min q. End up with 0-6, cuz wife couldn’t met fckin delivery
Just went afk for last 3 games
last jasper
That music. Lmao. I like it 😂
wintry dew
every time i watch your videos, i feel like im watching a JJK intro
tbf
that warrior was a great example of how not to play
he used trinket on a CS from an assa rogue
jolly sierra
every time i watch your videos, i feel like im watching a JJK intro
im a fkn weeb
dont be so surprised
XD
wintry dew
dw me too
jolly sierra
he used trinket on a CS from an assa rogue
yeah me smash
but was hilarious to exploit the trink mistake
wintry dew
it was so done
and healer was in the other side of the world
in order to heal he would be cced midway 4 sure
jolly sierra
healer
went to cyclone
instead checking his partner
literal priorized that instead possibly helping him
nova viper
jolly sierra
btw i already capped the rog
dont care about rating for now
just laughs
have 1 w ret too
wanna see?
last jasper
Lmao
nova viper
have u seen the battleshout?
yea
shadow creek
Anyone here have a good guess of how many RBG wins it takes to fill the vault?
surreal ravine
is disc or holy priests harder to kill ?
jolly sierra
Anyone here have a good guess of how many RBG wins it takes to fill the vault?
like 4 dailies
fossil sierra
yo does sylvanas drop her daggers?
jolly sierra
yes
waxen meteor
So it looks like there’s no tuning this week?
gilded gulch
LOOK
what am i looking at
average resto druid player who's afking in stealth while his teammate is dying?
seems to happen regardless of season
jolly sierra
what am i looking at
warrior using trink w a cheap shot
and drood cycloning at warr half HP
shadow creek
random cyclones make me a little crazy, especially when they're in the kill zone
gilded gulch
and drood cycloning at warr half HP
average rdruid player
jolly sierra
random cyclones make me a little crazy, especially when they're in the kill zone
same
shadow creek
like 4 dailies
I've never paid attention to the honor after a win; do you get more honor for the first win of the day...?
jolly sierra
I've never paid attention to the honor after a win; do you get more honor for th...
yes, but a lot less
fossil sierra
thank fuck I was the only rogue
fossil sierra
got the mount too
last jasper
Not the best lookin dagger tbh
jolly sierra
thank fuck I was the only rogue
gratz
mortal jay
does arms warrior spinny stabby spell count as aoe for the purpose of feint?
mortal jay
simpler version of the question. with upgraded feint talent, will feint reduce the damage of bladestorm by 40 percent or 20 percent.
ChatGPT says 40 but she said to double check with you guys
Not sure why ChatGPT is a she but she is
ancient kayak
Is there a way to upgrade my Tierset with the PVP bonus ? (Upgrading it up in PVP)
gilded gulch
Is there a way to upgrade my Tierset with the PVP bonus ? (Upgrading it up in PV...
pvp tier or what
ancient kayak
pvp tier or what
The Normal tier set from raiding, or is it not worth in PVP ?
gilded gulch
normal is champion track isnt it
you’d need to upgrade it with flightstones and crests
ancient kayak
I think im just to stupid to understand you,
Just that everybody knows what i mean:
Can i Upgrade my PVE gear set (shadow clones), with the effect that it will upgrade in PVP to Item Level 486.
In my mind i can only upgrade craftet gear with the these Bonuses from the Vendor
gilded gulch
I think im just to stupid to understand you,
Just that everybody knows what i m...
you cant if its not pvp tier
ancient kayak
Thank you :) so its not worth it in PVP i guess. conquest gear it is than
Or tier set pvp
gilded gulch
probably depends on which spec and slot
ancient kayak
probably depends on which spec and slot
Thank you btw :)
ancient kayak
Im on sub :)
mortal jay
is taking echoing and resounding clarity a must. or is it a matter of playstyle and preference?
i've always played without it. playing a shadowdance build. and I cant really see anything to drop for it.
tribal badger
i dont think any rogue spec uses ER currently in pvp?
i guess u probablyt still can as sin
i dont think its the popular pick tho
so its def not mandatory in anyway
fallen oyster
Are there any PvP outlaw guides? Never really touched the spec before
buoyant prism
why all sub player use Hellbloom Cudgel on off hand?
mortal jay
YAY 1600
buoyant prism
alliance seems to be signifiacntly superior in random bg currently. is that accurate?
mortal jay
depends on the time of day, time of the week, how far into the season, the position of the stars, if mercury is in retrograde, and whether you brushed your teeth today.
there is no consistent advantage/horde or alliance at level 70 random bgs. its a tossup.. whichever group has the least bots
teal imp
I lost the last 5-6 bgs in row as alliance can not confirm
mortal jay
i put very little stock in random bg matches. its a crap shoot. if you get 3 players who are trying for objectives, you may win, if the other team is a group of knuckle dragger fight in mid, you may win. its dependant on so many factors you just can't control
i try for objectives always, but if i lose, i still got more time pvping and learning how to use my abilities better
stoic spruce
alliance seems to be signifiacntly superior in random bg currently. is that accu...
Yes. It's never a toss up or anything like that. Alliance is superior in random bgs.
mortal jay
so its me.. specifically how bad I am that caused me to lose 3 in a row as alliance just now 😦
can you cite a source providing that stticsticas/.?
buoyant prism
is nelf the best class for rogue?
mortal jay
yes.
shadowmeld in and of itself just synergizes too well with rogue to pass it up
i say that...but I dont have much experience with outlaw or sub. I assume the same, but can't speak from exerience. for assassination, its almost a prerequisite
ive been almost exclusively assass since wotlk. lol
'
i'm too dumb to play sub properly
buoyant prism
ive been almost exclusively assass since wotlk. lol
wow nice
buoyant prism
i'm too dumb to play sub properly
its actually not so bad, i only started few days ago and already winning skirmishes
frank oxide
nah assass is too squishy in solo shuffle, as least for me
scarlet shell
cosmetically play whatever you want, but nelf is just a crazy class bc of shadowmeld alone
maybe they will disable all racials in pvp combat one day
fiery gorge
cosmetically play whatever you want, but nelf is just a crazy class bc of shadow...
Why shadowmeld if rogue has stealth ?
wary spire
It's basically an extra vanish.
wary moss
I wish will of the forsaken worked like it did back in the day and didn't put Trinket on CD
cosmic thistle
GOW DO I GET WRYM DREAMIGN CREST?
tribal badger
craft it with 45 wyrms crests
at the work order station
need to WO it from an enchanter
u can also get two free 1s, 1 from completing the emerald dream campaign and killing fyrakk after u get the final quest, 1 from hitting 20 renown with the emerald dream people
wary moss
We get a catalyst charge today, right?
tribal badger
dont believe so, think we got one last week didnt we?
maybe it was a half week I've lost track
wintry dew
Last week was crafting item
cosmic thistle
wdym 1? i need like 15 too upgrade my gear
wintry dew
So this week is catalyst
wintry dew
wdym 1? i need like 15 too upgrade my gear
For pvp you don't need it
cosmic thistle
craft it with 45 wyrms crests
bro i asked how too obtain wryms crests
wintry dew
Pvp stats are set. Using crests would only improve the PvE ilevel
tribal badger
oh thot u meant the crafting on
you either win arena matches at 2100+ rating, or do m+ dungeons, or do herioc raid
cosmic thistle
Pvp stats are set. Using crests would only improve the PvE ilevel
but it gives + stats?
wintry dew
If you wanna PvE sure
cosmic thistle
ahh ok
wintry dew
Not for pvp
tribal badger
it doesnt increase pvp ilvl unless its a piece of pve gear
wintry dew
Pvp items have, on the bottom of their description: blablabla scales to 486/489 (depending on the item) ilevel in battlegrounds, arena, etc
So in theory, if you wanna pvp 100% and fuck PvE, don't worry about upgrading items
cosmic thistle
oh xd
tribal badger
ye upgrading is soloy to make WQing easier or to make pve gear stronger in pvp and pve
cosmic thistle
is the lucid gear best for assasin?
surreal barn
bro i asked how too obtain wryms crests
Can get them 1800 up
wintry dew
Lucid gear = tier set gear
surreal barn
I am getting around 3 a shuffle
wintry dew
You want gloves and legs
cosmic thistle
not the 4 set?
wintry dew
Not worth it for pvp
cosmic thistle
ok
wary moss
I should have my 4 set today. I'm gonna test it out, with ER it's real easy to get back to back envenoms. So I should be able to take advantage of the 4 set
cosmic thistle
how do u get so u can buy themi get 1 when u hit 1800k raring and the rest vault?
wary moss
Vault, catalyst, free one at 1600
sage sparrow
We get a catalyst charge today, right?
Yep
worthy crag
servers up
cosmic thistle
Vault, catalyst, free one at 1600
was it good?
wintry dew
?
fossil sierra
do all spec's play 4 set?
jolly sierra
strange stag
Guys i did legend last season, i want to ding IT this season too. I did everything else i wanted. Should i just Play now or wait for last month od season ? Is IT impossible to grind now?
wary moss
It's not impossible, but probably better to wait
radiant shuttle
was it good?
Are you in need of medical assistance my dude
potent pivot
Before you ask, check murlok.io or Google "checkpvp"
Are u ok? 
wintry dew
yes xD
cosmic thistle
Are you in need of medical assistance my dude
wut
wintry dew
He gave you an answer, you responded with something ... weird
stoic spruce
Was the token at 1600 good Royal?
radiant shuttle
was it good?
wary moss
Let's go! I got a good vault! Got legs and catalyst charged my shoulders! Time to give this 4 set a try
stoic spruce
My man 
wintry dew
Was the token at 1600 good Royal?
Yes my man, the token was awesome at 1600
cosmic thistle
How can i only get like 30+ rating on 4 wins?
wintry dew
it means your MMR is low
either your MMR and CR are really close, or your MMR is lower than your CR, atleast i believe thats the issue
@potent pivot can you confirm?
wary moss
How can i only get like 30+ rating on 4 wins?
Mmr based
cosmic thistle
more based??
wintry dew
BRRRRR
wary moss
Hm?
i play both
cosmic thistle
wintry dew
Fair enough!
wintry dew
Merek, anything else we could help ya with?
potent pivot
<@629463378250956810> can you confirm?
Pretty much as far as I know
waxen meteor
yeah lower MMR is normally when you gain CR slow
and sometimes your MMR is a bit higher than lobby MMR (rarely)
wintry dew
you dont
cosmic thistle
:///