they gave a lot of dmg reduction
#pvp
halcyon timber
6% from secondary stuff in extra bleeds should add up and envenom tier set does 100-140k on players on ptr fir more chunk healing
Yeah lots of good stuff where we all have options
We tried raising discussion about legion vial for assassins but it didn’t fly
2 feints is nifty though
sour charm
It is
halcyon timber
Was a middle ground
sour charm
I know comparing specs to eachother is always difficult
But it is very hard to compete with Subs defensive potential
halcyon timber
Yeah unhealthy to do so
sour charm
with Dust being a thing
halcyon timber
Dust is just how a small prep worked for us and was about time
Still requiring to burn a vanish but yes instead of actual preparation returning
jolly bear
dude the double feint + elusiveness was crazy when I read it
then deadened nerves + atrophic
halcyon timber
Rogues flat out die w/o major cds so it was about time
Tab targetted by ascendence etc
jolly bear
does subterfuge throw anyone else off?
jolly bear
how do you play around it? i never really thought about it bc shadowy duel and subterfuge allow stealth but how does SD interact with them
halcyon timber
QQ’ers be damned
halcyon timber
Marked for death my good sir
jolly bear
never took it thats why i didnt know lmao
halcyon timber
Subterfuge is a multi purpose tool to answer your question
Its a personal choice to use it
jolly bear
did they remove mfd or just make it sin only cuz i dont think i saw it
halcyon timber
What can you do at x window as an example
wintry dew
did they remove mfd or just make it sin only cuz i dont think i saw it
removed
halcyon timber
Was removed due to dungeon sniping
jolly bear
thats fair
halcyon timber
Yeah but feral frenzy exists xD
jolly bear
its like energy sniping for the refunds on rupture
halcyon timber
Eh it’s whatever, we gained ways to build in better ways now
jolly bear
idk how feral frenzy works
halcyon timber
Pretty much mfd but does damage
Like a lot
They can clone and do it for free within x seconds as a talent
halcyon timber
Yeah it’s whatever
Nah leave it be
Could care less what people get as long as rogues aren’t reduced to stun bot status
jolly bear
I tried playing learning to heal in pvp on hpal and 80% of my lobbies were against resto druids and i spent half the game getting bash-cloned from stealth
halcyon timber
Pruning is dumb
jolly bear
literally made me never wanna heal in pvp again
halcyon timber
Yeah have to try to anticipate stuff
Glimmer bombing bugs prowl
Same w drain life and malific rapture
worthy crag
If ur going dark brew path, might as well embrace it fully with gloomblade. Could ditch weaponmaster, it kinda sucks in pvp with the 50% reduction in dmg. Also might wanna get replicating shadows
Also I see a lot of people taking Inevitability (0.5 sec extensions on SoD) and I dont really understand why
halcyon timber
Wm is ok , isn’t as good but its fine. Nice when it happens but whatever
worthy crag
Yeah its okay, but if we are sacrificing a talent that'd be my first to sacrifice
worthy crag
but yeah, if taking dark brew i'd def take replicating shadows and gloomblade
halcyon timber
Still love lingering and thankful realz kept it.
jolly bear
jolly bear
Also I see a lot of people taking Inevitability (0.5 sec extensions on SoD) and ...
this is why
worthy crag
True, but like
jolly bear
wm is nerfed by 50%? lol im taking gloomblade
halcyon timber
Only thing about replicating shadows is when the secondary ticks it resets combat timer
worthy crag
once dance is over it's kinda irrelevant how much longer SoD lasts imo
halcyon timber
Yeh
jolly bear
?
jolly sierra
i did
jolly bear
cant this help you spam still
worthy crag
Personally i try to stick to 1 dance per stun DRs
jolly bear
Need it
yeah sp if you have shadowcraft up and SD ends this helps you get it back faster still right
jolly sierra
i need to get used to shadow dance as assa too
halcyon timber
Assassins are filthy af with dance
jolly sierra
still messing accidentally pressing the MFD key
jolly bear
good thing for me is i main sub so Im always used to it xd
jolly sierra
my muscle memory still miss it
halcyon timber
Yeah honestly could have just been in assassins tree
jolly bear
shouldnt you just put SD on your old MFD key
halcyon timber
But math is math and there was prob a good reason.
jolly bear
Yeah honestly could have just been in assassins tree
probably would have nerfed it first
like sporecloak 🥰
jolly sierra
shouldnt you just put SD on your old MFD key
i will tho
halcyon timber
Not gonna lie, been fooling around on rumble and it is kinda fun
jolly bear
I freed up a keybind by being able to macro symbols back to SD again
halcyon timber
Got me a few rogue units so im happy xD
jolly bear
needed it for goremaws spot
halcyon timber
I use my mouse for most stuff
jolly bear
i tried, couldnt get used to it
halcyon timber
Yeh
jolly bear
came from league and runescape
halcyon timber
Right on man i dig
jolly bear
mouse* moving + keyboard is for abilites
everyone thinks im a freak cuz i dont move with wasd
lmao
halcyon timber
No keyboard turning in this rogue house of scholars
jolly bear
ima have to move vanish to where ss is and take off BP for pvp
cant really see BP getting pressed in arena
halcyon timber
I just shift w for bp
jolly sierra
halcyon timber
Bp w the tier set can do decent damage . But its chance
New tier
All 3 sets are pretty good in 10.2
jolly bear
so im trying to figure out the biggest burst button sequence now with goremaws
for my dark brew talent choices
halcyon timber
Db is dependable so flat buff and if you have deeper daggers up you pretty much got it rolling
jolly bear
oh yeah you have to be trolling if u dont take deeper daggers ya
halcyon timber
Personal preference. I love it as it fits what im shooting for
Takes getting used to
tender ferry
Every time I actually get CP from a finisher I find myself in the middle of using a builder
halcyon timber
Yeah have to plan
jolly bear
honestly idk how i could take replicating shadows everything i took is too good to give up
jolly bear
theres too many good talents now and not enough points 😭
halcyon timber
Options
tender ferry
Dark brew + RS = like 40% of your damage in shuffle is rupture. Pretty funny
halcyon timber
Good thing to have
Yeah its a good call back to when we had nasty bleed damage like in cataclysm
jolly bear
Dark brew + RS = like 40% of your damage in shuffle is rupture. Pretty funny
lmao really? its lit
tender ferry
If it’s a longer game, definitely
jolly bear
how do yall feel about flag
tender ferry
Flag is a viable pick for PvE right now so it can work
But it’s just another thing to plan around
It pumps tho
halcyon timber
Yep, the flag hits are nothing to scoff at
jolly bear
yeah before the s2 tier set i was using it and it was surprising dmg
halcyon timber
With things backing it up of course
jolly bear
yeah but now flag + goremaws... kinda sounds good
tender ferry
Right now I’m liking dark brew + dance as my capstones with 2 points into shadow dust + thief’s bargain
Kinda like last season’s rotten with a bit more sustained pressure
jolly sierra
just spotted a rogue with this in day 1
halcyon timber
Yeah
jolly bear
that was the one thing i disliked, outside sd+symbols i was basically a gnat that had a stun
halcyon timber
just spotted a rogue with this in day 1
Yehhhh boy
jolly bear
i just did the campaign and i got one
halcyon timber
Yeh ill check it eventuality tonight as well
jolly bear
idk what to do with it tbh
halcyon timber
Hold it
halcyon timber
Next week you can use it
wintry dew
warsupply / assassin / all pvp Wquests and a lot of people dying in the graveyard
halcyon timber
And bi weekly after that we get 1 charge
jolly bear
use it w ur boots
so we keeping the boots copyyyyyyyyyyyy
jolly sierra
try getting a shitty whelping crest
jolly sierra
so we keeping the boots copyyyyyyyyyyyy
yiss
jolly bear
im debating if perforated veins is good to take with DB or not worth
jolly sierra
dunno
waxen meteor
just spotted a rogue with this in day 1
But 463 isn’t really high isn’t it?
jolly sierra
But 463 isn’t really high isn’t it?
its still higher than 450
halcyon timber
We top out around 865k life fully geared and outlaw can push a little higher just over 900k . Most other classes are sitting over 1mill -1.3
waxen meteor
its still higher than 450
Useful for only 1 week..
jolly sierra
Useful for only 1 week..
u will still need to put the trophy later anyways
waxen meteor
Oh that’s the blood coin one? Nice
gritty heart
can a sub rogue use sword as off hand?
muted abyss
can a sub rogue use sword as off hand?
yeah
jolly bear
yes
muted abyss
you want mastery ver offhand anyways
waxen meteor
3500 for 1 
jolly bear
its really not that bad
jolly sierra
verdant combatant stuff already available (sadly is the 463 one)
no info about the aspirant items
waxen meteor
But it’s good info I have been playing skirmish with max honor I will redeem a couple of trophy
jolly sierra
still have the trophies of strife w the rog
other chars haves nothing
def was a ninja hotfix
halcyon timber
Hmm
jolly sierra
Hmm@how?
did it normally thinking was intended
then went w alt
and rewarded me nothing
halcyon timber
Prob not intended
jolly sierra
going blindly getting 100 sparks
waxen meteor
But there’s nothing giving you trophy now
jolly sierra
the weekly did
waxen meteor
I mean no mission
jolly sierra
until some hours ago
waxen meteor
halcyon timber
Lord
waxen meteor
Ok glad I have not turn in that mission yet
waxen meteor
But I am like 0/100
jolly sierra
waxen meteor
You did crafts?
gritty heart
so im now 454
lucid citrus
lets keep it coming
waxen meteor
Conquest gets cleaned up next week?
Lol you guys are crazy blood coin farmers
I am sitting at 200 blood coin
dusky flower
hows the specs looking this patch, im hyped for the salty whispers
jolly bear
guys how the fk are you farming bloody tokens that hard wtf
jolly sierra
with some free time
waxen meteor
I feel we don’t even need that many blood coin…
sour charm
2350 or something for a full set
jolly bear
yo invite me LOL
sour charm
yeah but how am I gonna stomp noobs in boosted gear in random bgs
if I dont have full bloody token gear
jolly bear
me^
sour charm
My warrior also got the trophies
my rogues quest doesnt show them as a reward
so yeah somethings fucky
jolly bear
wtf really I didnt see any trophy rewards
dusky flower
all specs feeling good? gotta pick how im gearing this patch
sour charm
just press kingsbane
jolly bear
sub
sour charm
just press goremaw
Jokes aside
I think Sub can just delete a lot of specs from the game currently
Just don't fight a Disc
they kill you before you kill them
jolly bear
yeah they were a disc priest.... lol
lucid citrus
do we still go for Verse/mast in all specs? lol
jolly bear
personally I just wish that vers was more interesting or something
gritty heart
btw playing gormaw and dark brew is amazing burst but after that you need lot of time to recovery
rotten is more viable for cd time
jolly bear
thought it was the other way around
waxen meteor
btw playing gormaw and dark brew is amazing burst but after that you need lot o...
Yeah it’s really hard to choose
gritty heart
Yeah it’s really hard to choose
maybe we can go rotten and gromaw
sour charm
Did some more Wpvp with No Dance Assa. Feels pretty okay, but missing out on an on demand stun when you are bursting is painful. Might be more viable in 2s where its easier to have proper setups.
waxen meteor
maybe we can go rotten and gromaw
Yeah that’s one of my builds
Swapping between different builds not really helpful to build the muscle memory for next week
Brew boosts rupture dmg by a lot
So even you are ‘recovering’ there are some solid dmg
gritty heart
i use rapture so rare
waxen meteor
When you use brew, just pick the double rupture talent
The dmg is really really good
gritty heart
ye its actually cleave build
waxen meteor
Kinda common to use in 3s or solo
gritty heart
ye im 2s player thats why i hate that lol
waxen meteor
But even if you don’t get to dup rupture on a second target it’s still solid
I think before you use shadow blade your rupture on single target is close to evis in a normal game
jolly bear
this worth giving up for RS?
waxen meteor
When you enable shadow blade and bang bang bang 200 evis, it’s a diff ent story
waxen meteor
this worth giving up for RS?
I didn’t pick any there
jolly bear
oh i didnt know it raised rupture by 20% lol
thats worth it
i thought it just did 2
halcyon timber
thought it was the other way around
Its very close in damage, its just a playstyle difference with a little shift in damage
worthy crag
is sec tech considered AOE for feint?
halcyon timber
this worth giving up for RS?
Its up to you but it’s still good
Yes
ST is both aoe and direct damage and gets scuffed up on feint
Same w a well timed cloak if needed
halcyon timber
1st hit is, secondary hits are shadow
Veil or regular cloak will ignore the shadow hits
Always has
Veil can ignore the whole thing if done very very fast , same w dfa
Saw a hunter rapid fire a paladin for 567k combined yesterday in open world
No idea what juice he was on or how but he did in details
vocal surge
do we still go for Verse/mast in all specs? lol
Outlaw is Crit/Vers w. some Haste
and excess secondary dump on either Mastery or Crit
Our Secondary Stats scaling starts to stagnate pretty hard by the end of our gearing
waxen meteor
Guys, where is the place you said 3000 honor for 1 trophy?
halcyon timber
Obsidian enclave but its a catch up mechanic
The dude up front next to malicia sells it
stoic spruce
I'm so glad KS does damage now
halcyon timber
Wonder how effective haste is into it as it scales with that now per the last few builds
Was decreased to hits at .3sec intervals i think? Down from.4 something yadda yadda
halcyon timber
Take em’ and the other talent granting 20% affect it pretty well?
It was a very satisfying sight to see after years of it being dookie
The defense to it is sick
stoic spruce
Vers/crit=haste/mastery has been proving to be very nice
halcyon timber
100% dmage take over x sec and you can cloak that off too
stoic spruce
I love it
halcyon timber
Its about time it turned into a sick ability again
waxen meteor
Obsidian enclave but its a catch up mechanic
I think the vendor is not selling anything now
halcyon timber
They changed it, it was up last night for a brief amount of time
Dude had trophies up to trade but the clause of “you must be behind on your arena catch up” or some jazz like that was said in red letters
jolly bear
damn I got bricked up from a 330k ST in S2
sharp pumice
seems a bit good, though that'd be hard to pull off in combat
30 stack on flagellation, then symbols/dance/etc
SB
jolly bear
ohhh yeah thatll do it
sharp pumice
would be very difficult to do that in an actual match
jolly bear
dude wtf why does goremaws feel so stiff to press
sharp pumice
then again
do that in a match, people die
goremaw's is plenty powerful but it's a GCD button that's got a 45m cooldown
45s*
halcyon timber
Not sure if dummies have resistances / versatility dummy value’s but they do have 35% armor
jolly bear
like when i press SD it doesnt go off but SS will
im confused
i feel like im missing something
halcyon timber
As far as which ?
halcyon timber
Working as intended
jolly bear
literally didnt have time to press vanish
he started when i wasnt looking at my screen
halcyon timber
Beware hunters raising propaganda
jolly bear
cuz i got 2 screens
halcyon timber
XD
sharp pumice
but they like, have a fucking gun
we're the ones sneaking around with a shiv while they're all pieced up and have artillery equipment
jolly bear
im so annoyed
jolly bear
im going to find and kill this guy
jolly bear
why is my dragon randomly becoming invis
sharp pumice
why are my poisons falling off and I get yanked out of stealth all the fucking time
jolly bear
LOL
sometimes I get pulled outta stealth without being hit by anything
im just like what the actual F
sharp pumice
same
halcyon timber
Class abilities like warlock stuff and glimmer from paladin does that
potent pivot
waxen meteor
omg this gardening thing on new map is confusing
sharp pumice
I should do those lame quests
prime zenith
Are the bloody tokens going to reset next tuesday? or have they already reset?
sharp sierra
so does sub feel like its getting nerfed
jolly bear
honestly, if sub gets nerfed they should nerf MM twice as fast and twice as hard
halcyon timber
honestly no, not when literally other classes do what we do with zero set up
evoker taco bell smoke screens you with his vape pen and you go 60-0
Retribution just walks forward and will smoke you in a 5s hoj and continue to bruise your banana after
gritty heart
i wanna chose an alt for pvp which using 2 handed but all of them have a problem 😦
which 2 hand is buffed rght now
jolly bear
what?
halcyon timber
and if you fight ret back they just immune themselves and heal xd
xD yep
jolly bear
you used SD, symbols, SB, goremaws, have rupture up and are ready to get danse stacks for the sectech? bubble.
halcyon timber
standard procedure man
jolly bear
yeah thats fine
its just the fact that they can also one shot you while immune and their dmg never really stops lol
I thought people had to choose between burst and consistent dmg 🤔
halcyon timber
not when it comes to paladin , rules don't apply man
halcyon timber
hold it for catalyst for sure
jolly bear
I thought you cant use catalyst on crafted gear
spring bough
175 tokens farmed in 10 minutes at the one GY respawn in emerald this is ridic its a mosh pit of people aoeing dying repeating lol
jolly bear
yeah I stumbled onto that and Im lagging tf out
spring bough
221 since i posted this is wild fast
jolly bear
are you dying too
spring bough
i run out get heals run back in BF run out get heals run back in lol
im with a mage and he is blasting
spring bough
hit up lfg for a group im already at 385 lmaoooo
jolly bear
im lagging so hard
spring bough
just about 1k tokens in a lil over half an hour is crazy lol
inner tartan
bingo
spring bough
how is yours so high my 7 pt says 194k lol
halcyon timber
I thought you cant use catalyst on crafted gear
correct but once you obtain conquest next week
jolly bear
I feel like im missing somethign
spring bough
picked up a boomy for this token farm and its going even faster now
halcyon timber
honestly say it varies
depends what they give you, depends what you have rolling etc but generally yes.
I don't use secret technique as I just honestly don't care for it /shrug but that is one way of using it along with the other stuff.
uneven grove
how is assa in 10.2 so far?
sharp pumice
I don't like sectec or goremaw's or flagellation, but, all of them combined optimally seems way too strong to ignore
30 stack flag + gmaw + sectec
Absolutely Mongo damage
halcyon timber
I much prefer goremaws as a generator focus. Did a lot of ptr to do without the others abd it served me just fine. The new tier makes up for it and adds more kick on finishers anyhow.
If people defend well as they should, prob will pan out well in the end. Other classes gained a bunch of stuff. Its about time rogues stop being gimped .
halcyon timber
how is assa in 10.2 so far?
The boys seemed to be having a freakin blast seriously
Hope you got to play with it as well bro
stoic spruce
Its so weird breaking stealth with Between the Eyes
sharp pumice
I just would prefer being stronger with way less cooldown dependence (even if that is accompanied by having way less cooldowns) but that's not modern rogue anymore I don't think
I could probably make a mongo low CDs build, but I don't see one that's optimal or close to it
halcyon timber
Completely agreed man, wish core abilities were far more important or more talents to emphasize that instead of “need x ability to function well”
Im a huge advocate for ol backstab
We still have it in some ways but it is all depending on how we talent. I’m still very happy with choices but yeah toning down the extra stuff and emphasizing core instead of goofy tuning the past 2 seasons because some dumb dumb trinketed a 5 sec blind , was off DR and got kidney shot and beat up
thorn pond
Hey guys, does mastery on sub rogue have a soft/hard cap ? With the new set I expect we reach even more crit damage % from mastery but is it less effective the higher you go or is it always flat % increases ?
halcyon timber
Cds should be fun and useful but not to make or break us then left to rot
stoic spruce
I hate shadowdance for outlaw 
halcyon timber
Hey guys, does mastery on sub rogue have a soft/hard cap ? With the new set I ex...
Put up as much mastery as you can get to emphasize finishers yes.
New set is good but is rng for 35% clone evisc / rupture/ bp
Happens fairly often
Well kinda
halcyon timber
I hate shadowdance for outlaw <:dracthyr_cry:1002454117349859328>
I absolutely love that filthy crackshot though
stoic spruce
Was better with dreadblades
stoic spruce
It's like buying a Ferrari and then the dealer keys it.
halcyon timber
Dang yeah
Sincerely hope outlaw plays out well
Its cool to see them do their thing
stoic spruce
Maybe, if they over perform in pve it could be a death sentence
halcyon timber
Yeah I wouldn’t worry though casters hit really dang hard w full gear
stoic spruce
Like last time
halcyon timber
I remember seeing locks 2/3 peoples life on ptr
W bolts
And mm tier is going to slot machine rapid fire the crap out of people now that it was changed
stoic spruce
Lol oh yeah
halcyon timber
Fury and enhance are very nasty too
stoic spruce
I melted people as survival in honor gear
stoic spruce
Rets are still insane
halcyon timber
Rets can suck it
stoic spruce
Boomies too. Wtf happened to boomies?
halcyon timber
Still tab target
stoic spruce
They just global people now
halcyon timber
Moonkin is ridiculous atm
260k+ full moons
Resto druid convoke bombs people bad in a rake stun
Ferals got a lotta bite damage back too
I think frost will be a sleeper somehow
stoic spruce
Mage?
stoic spruce
Oh, I doubt it. The thing that made their tierset good was a bug and got fixed.
stoic spruce
Yeah bm is a good casual spec to farm arenas or something with
halcyon timber
Dunno how but yeah
In bgs , they kinda just turreted
Might have been before the changes though
Fought a few dev dracs earlier, they hit very very hard now too
stoic spruce
I wouldn't be opposed to them being a real dps spec
I love how insane everything is
halcyon timber
Its up in the air for sure
stoic spruce
I should test prot warr
halcyon timber
Game is best when classes are strong
stoic spruce
Get some tanks in on the action lmaoo
halcyon timber
That’s how cata was
Yeah prot warrior and paladin can chunk hard
Vengeance was /might be still ridiculous too
Flat out didnt die on ptr and hit people harder than havoc
halcyon timber
Yep
stoic spruce
Okay good
halcyon timber
Just soaking souls to heal
Padding mostly but they definitely hit people hard
All mages were pretty cracked too
stoic spruce
Naturally
halcyon timber
Saw a fire mage earlier annihilate a warlock and a warrior in the dream area
Dude was on meth
stoic spruce
Had to have been
halcyon timber
You try out the new warrior talents?
stoic spruce
I have not. I heard the new pvp talent is pretty good
halcyon timber
Saw an arms warrior training dummy tf out of people earlier
stoic spruce
I really should dust off my warr
halcyon timber
Dude destroyed a moonkin through all defenses
Discipline is strong but def needs to be since restoration is just far stronger than everyone else
stoic spruce
My favorite meta is when hpal is the best. Idk I always seem to like it more.
stoic spruce
Mainly because they don't run around and do annoying stuff
halcyon timber
I just want everyone to be strong
Yeah
They csn 60-0 people pretty bad w glimmer bombing
stoic spruce
I want everyone to be strong including tanks. Hot take I know.
halcyon timber
I agree
Like yeah tune someone if its silly but don’t eff up core talents
Nerfing bte just bc hehe . That is dumb
What’s cool w crackshot is dispatch goes off even when out of melee range
Ye ol 2fer
Summarily dispatch + crackshot windows felt good on ptr w tier
Was easy w 1 pt and 2 ace resets to get those 5 stackers going
stoic spruce
I can't wait for tier
halcyon timber
Yeah got my spark rolling and ready
halcyon timber
I messed around a lot with it on ptr to number crunch and report bugs
Found quite a few and they fixed em
Math wasn’t mathing right on bte and did 67% of its damage in weird ways (improved bte wasn’t at full value)
halcyon timber
Yeah even though im forever only subtlety, i test all rogue stuff to make sure we are all getting love
stoic spruce
halcyon timber
Gotta fight for our class
We were all tuned down a lot on ptr from first build up until live in different ways
stoic spruce
We should be thankful we have dev interaction
halcyon timber
Yeah hes a good guy seriously
Gives a spit and I appreciate that
Listens to all feedback and tries to make a middle ground / something for everyone
stoic spruce
Well
Idk about all feedback lol
It looked like he only listen to 3 or 4 people in the outlaw channel
halcyon timber
Yeah hard spot
stoic spruce
It be that way sometimes
halcyon timber
I was in the channel a lot for my stuff
Got made fun of a good bit but whatever
“Go play classic” is inappropriate
When rogues have a lot of tools, we do well
When were are restricted, it flat out sucks butt
thick slate
30 stack flag + gmaw + sectec
yeah however its kinda hard to pull that off since lets say opener, you dont have 30 stacks yet
stoic spruce
Lmao go play classic. Whata rude way to say "I don't care about your opinion"
halcyon timber
Yeah
Uncool man
That’s why I’m glad our guy said hes taking lessons from the past
And i do believe it was executed well
stoic spruce
This iteration of sub is my favorite ngl
halcyon timber
I dig generators, was always my thing . Glad it wasn’t ignored
It’s definitely got a lot if cata in it
Makes me happy
With a new flair
Doesn’t need to change from this in all seriousness
Its methodical and takes precision and the pay off feels just about right
Compare rogues to other classes and we are at that sweet spot. Not too strong but definitely not week
Weak *
Rogues need punch, shuffle is a good example of when other classes pve and the rogue is nerfed. We just baby sit stunning and that ish isn’t fun or good
Still wish HO was unnerfed since they said the tier was the original issue
thick slate
If goremaw remains this strong, sub might be way stronger than people believe
halcyon timber
It could but some goon could also just clone tf out of us waddling too
thick slate
its a nasty amount of instant damage that has way too many modifiers to make it hit harder, and combine that with secret tech dmg
you give people way less reaction time
halcyon timber
When people have max life like om ptr is smoothed out
thick slate
i was having so much fun in the world with it while questing in the emerald dream yday
there's this poor warrior who came across me like 5 times, killed him every time
halcyon timber
Yeah we are pretty much in Greens atm
thick slate
i quest with s2 pvp gear though just incase some pvp action occured
wintry dew
there's this poor warrior who came across me like 5 times, killed him every time
Sounds like a experience I had yesterday. I was the warrior
halcyon timber
Life is like 1.3-1.4 on ptr for plate classes
thick slate
Sounds like a experience I had yesterday. I was the warrior
bro no way
are you a human warrior ?
wintry dew
Yes ... ?
thick slate
Name ?
wintry dew
Watchman
halcyon timber
XD privacy bro
thick slate
Ah no that wasn't you, the guy i was farming had a name start with B
halcyon timber
Warrs do 250k mortal strikes and def didn’t get bullied on the last build of ptr
wintry dew
But fr I was playing my boosted warrior yesterday, and on the wpvp quest in zaralekk, this rogue kept farming me non stop
halcyon timber
Bladestorm was def a life ender
thick slate
i wouldnt step back in zaralek cavers with a 10 inch pole
thick slate
Bladestorm was def a life ender
bladestorm is hitting really hard rn
halcyon timber
Was cool lore wise
wintry dew
500 BLOODY COINS THO
halcyon timber
Nice to see what nelth was doing
thick slate
warriors will always be our counters
halcyon timber
Yep like old days
thick slate
500 BLOODY COINS THO
only reason i'd visit and insta leave
halcyon timber
Lionheart executioner and you got stunned it was gg
wintry dew
Yeah yesterday I farmed 1.8k bloody coins
halcyon timber
Wait till they get the axe
wintry dew
1000 were while afk
thick slate
Ill do that today
halcyon timber
When warriors get the axe its game over for Harry Potter classes
thick slate
you spammed all world pvp quests?
wintry dew
All wquests pvp, warsupply, 1 assassin and then joined a bloodytoken farm in the new zone, went to a really neat spot under the graveyard so no1 would kill me, stayed there for like 2 hours
halcyon timber
I couldn’t get a crate for jack today
thick slate
lol pog
i had a crate in the new zone with 1 evoker
he dropped in 2 cheap shots
poor lad
wintry dew
All that is left for me to get on my warrior is headpiece/back/gloves and 1 more 2handed for pvp fury
Which will be achieved today
halcyon timber
I remember on ptr w max gear shaman were able to hit a true 1 million ele blast
thick slate
its looking x10 times stronger than fury
i got my warr to 2.4 in s2 as arms and its about to get way better
wintry dew
Weapon will be last BCS i already got 1 weapon. And yeah I love arms
halcyon timber
You fool around w the new prey on the weak talent for warriors?
During roar talent i think it is in effect
wintry dew
Meanwhile my rogue has offhand + 3 offset pieces already. Just waiting for honor vendor and I'll be probably more than ready
halcyon timber
New safeguard or whatever talent is going to make hpal warr a pain
Mistweaver tier is nuts too
thick slate
Yep pretty much
halcyon timber
Sac was nerfed by 10% at least
Ww rsk is filthy af and their tier is going to be pretty deadly
wintry dew
New safeguard or whatever talent is going to make hpal warr a pain
What is it about?
hidden moth
man sub for pvp doesnt feel good IMO idk if i have the right talents but energy management is tough for me
torn stump
which spec the best in 3v3 now?
wintry dew
It's been out for a day, we don't know yet
torn stump
What if it's a preliminary look?
wintry dew
I had a really hard time yesterday doing any kind of pvp due to server lag for a big while.
Tried a sub build someone recommended yesterday, didn't feel too bad, just a sec tech build + goremaw
torn stump
what about assa and outlaw?
torn stump
next week tuesday, right?
wary spire
Yep.
wary spire
Ayyy man, same to you! 
thorn pond
man sub for pvp doesnt feel good IMO idk if i have the right talents but energy ...
Try Vigor + Thisle Tea (replacing deeper stratagem) helps a lot for the down times between dances and helps with reducing cooldown on dance
I struggle a bit with the loss of the 3m range talent since I played with that last season but the loss of the 7th point didn’t feel bad honestly. In the end it helps me having a smoother time getting full combo finisher on dances that are off shadow blades
Outside of SB openings, with subterfuge I tend to do shadow strike + cheap, then dance/tea into evis -> symbols goremaw -> another shadow strike for the crit and full combo points -> cheap shot -> coldblood secret tech
Gotta try other things and tweaking a bit the talents but so far the build feels nice to play on my part
sharp sierra
what class except rogue are u gonna play
healing in ss made me realise a lot of dps mistakes 
pliant delta
pvp boots gonna be 1st craft for sub?
vague verge
what is stat prio for sub beside vers?
pliant delta
mastery
mystic shoal
whats sub one shot rotation
languid ravine
Channel your Rage for 20 Episodes, then release Genkidama for big One Shot
NOTE: Genkidama needs to be bigger than enemy remaining HP
wary spire
Couldn't be me.
proven kayak
Do you get the bloodcoin weapons or not plus i think gloves waist and wrist have good stats but idk if worth changing
severe kettle
Can we craft s3 gear yet? What if we recraft s2 gear with spark?
vapid ledge
I saw honor gear was back on the vendor. As a returning player with zero PvP gear should I buy it?
vapid ledge
Farm honor this week, next reset the honor gear will be S3, aka 470+ pvp ilevel
Easy
Thank you again for the assist homey
wintry dew
I got you Homey
halcyon timber
What is it about?
I think it was an intervene talent w 2 charges and reduces dmg taken by 20% iirc
wintry dew
Unless you cap out 15k early this week, you could ofc, in the case you would be getting honor nontheless, buy trinkets, those are important
wintry dew
I think it was an intervene talent w 2 charges and reduces dmg taken by 20% iirc
Oof it will be so usefull for shuffles
halcyon timber
Yep
halcyon timber
Add that to d stance too
proven kayak
Warrior is the most straight forward op class since vanilla ain’t changing
vapid ledge
Unless you cap out 15k early this week, you could ofc, in the case you would be ...
If the gear is gonna just be straight up better in a few days might as well wait and sit on the 15k
wintry dew
Yeah it will be way better
halcyon timber
Warrior is the most straight forward op class since vanilla ain’t changing
Yeah 2x spell reflections will be nuts for them too
They are still going to unga bunga and reee at healers though
proven kayak
Yeah 2x spell reflections will be nuts for them too
The class is complete atrocity but they cherry picking that they have no@mobility that’s obvious a lie
proven kayak
It’s not like is wotk and they have only intercept
halcyon timber
Don’t need to catch people when you can space jam a effin holy book at someone from 25 yards
Yeah remember gag order and throw down?
proven kayak
War and ret are the meatheads comp
halcyon timber
They would just gag order silence a healer and roll your behind bad in that time
Then turn around griping about kidney shot drs
proven kayak
They can just mongo cleave you
halcyon timber
Yeh its dumb but whatever
Like back in the day when they would randomly proc a mortal strike and just 2/3 life you out of nowhere
But they got pissed about combat mace stuns randomly happening
proven kayak
Skillherald
lament tartan
Hey, what would be the Assa ''rotation'' or opener / burst for arenas?
after 10.2*
wintry dew
I'm still waiting for the big boys to come with the good answers. I'm a follower, not a leader
stoic spruce
The class is complete atrocity but they cherry picking that they have no@mobilit...
I don't think anyone actually says that
old brook
The worldofpvp rogue op/hate threads have already begun 🥱
old brook
Who needs wound poison on daggers when you have tears of the enemy instead
halcyon timber
“NeRf RoGuEs! I donT lIkE tHem hUrtInG mE baCk”
spring bough
Got that full bloody set and weps yesterday and it feels so good
Getting on a crackshot rip and just seeing health go from 100 to 0 and if it doesn’t finish it off hit a 7 CP killing spree and end it lol
safe pelican
Who got that new sub rogue rotation for ya boi
Played last night for about 2 hours we doing dmg like crazy now hope we don’t get nerfed , but i have no idea what my new rotation is gunna have to lock in on the dummy if nobody has one
halcyon timber
There are 2 universal truths:
- rogue hatred
- other classes such as ret will treat others like training dummies
safe pelican
Def got beat on by a ret last night I’m not gunna lie but everyone else got beat on
halcyon timber
They should trade
inner tartan
how is yours so high my 7 pt says 194k lol
i have almost 50 percent ves that propaly helps but i dunno i like it thou pvp shit dies
halcyon timber
Instead of casually trading shit like in s2 and s1 after we need every cd to maybe whoop on a warlock
The “rogues are stun support” vibe isn’t fun or cool
Other classes continue to do damage . They can shove it w their propaganda
People should get smoked in a kidney shot w cds. Can’t change my mind on that
“The game is good when i tab target people “ - rets
vapid ledge
I'm still waiting for the big boys to come with the good answers. I'm a follower...
Should I buy any of the crafted Verdant Combatant's stuff like the medallion or still hold till Tues? Sorry for the questions I have literally no clue what I'm doing
spring bough
i have almost 50 percent ves that propaly helps but i dunno i like it thou pvp...
Once I started getting more bloody gear my totals for KS tooltip went up lol
inner tartan
im still in conquest gear from last season
halcyon timber
Should I buy any of the crafted Verdant Combatant's stuff like the medallion or ...
Hold your stuff man
Unless you really want to then its up to you
inner tartan
is swift slasher and alot of hast / ves good in pvp ?
vapid ledge
Hold your stuff man
I would prefer to just hold lol but I'm sorta scared of being behind
spring bough
is swift slasher and alot of hast / ves good in pvp ?
I think we want to stack crit / vers this season with a little bit of haste. I’m rocking swift slasher and it feels great. I probably have 28 or so crit and about 6-7 haste and rest is vers
halcyon timber
I would prefer to just hold lol but I'm sorta scared of being behind
Its the first week, we are all on the same page 🙂
Honor gear will sky rocket as it is 26 lvls higher
Conquest gear from ptr was also pretty bug jumps
Especially in life
inner tartan
also second question im a lazy person and normal only do the open world pvp later is open world pvp gear needed for ealry pushing
im caped on honnor on most of my toons
inner tartan
Honor gear will sky rocket as it is 26 lvls higher
is honnor higher then open world pvp gear
spring bough
If you’re honor capped you prob have enough to get most honor gear it’s only 3 pvp ilvl higher than world pvp gear so not a big diff
inner tartan
ok good all i needed to know ty
spring bough
And you can use trophy of strife to upgrade wpvp gear to 3 levels less than the conq gear
Prob either want to upgrade a wep for OH or an item you can convert to tier to start knocking out the set bonuses
wintry dew
Should I buy any of the crafted Verdant Combatant's stuff like the medallion or ...
No, those are good for alts
If you farming honor already leave those items for Alts you wanna use later on
muted abyss
where are y'all farming bloody tokens at?
wintry dew
Pvp wquests + assassin kills + warsupplies
spring bough
There is a pvp Rez GY in emerald dream and last night it had probably 100 people there aoeing for hours
I got 1750 tokens in an hour last night
inner tartan
basicly being a rogue running around on killing sprees
inner tartan
I got 1750 tokens in an hour last night
💪
spring bough
Get a healer and someone with aoe like a mage or boomy
Stand behind the tree kill melee that come over and just reap the tokens lol
muted abyss
There is a pvp Rez GY in emerald dream and last night it had probably 100 people...
do you know where exactly that is? coords?
inner tartan
lmfaooo
spring bough
Run in blade rush vanish out and it’s a GG farm
inner tartan
do you know where exactly that is? coords?
on the map there should be a open world quest
if u have wm on it will be a circle with 2 crossed swords i believe
spring bough
It’s the middle of the map near where the pvp quest was I’m not on right now so can’t give the cords
muted abyss
if u have wm on it will be a circle with 2 crossed swords i believe
sweet thx
inner tartan
np go kill stuff xd
spring bough
Look out for the pvp world quests cause US is due for a token one soon
halcyon timber
is honnor higher then open world pvp gear
Not 100% sure as I didn’t play with it on ptr. It should be higher but open world scales higher but there is a trade off. Have to wait and see what those are. (Upgrading with trophies as an example) id flat out just figure out what is most valuable to you because when we have conquest it is whatever at that pt
inner tartan
when i check on my pvp rogue they were all gold so i was running bg areans and the bliz thingy
outlaw go zoom zoom in the new brawl
spring bough
Even if they only give gold those give 50 tokens for each one
inner tartan
Not 100% sure as I didn’t play with it on ptr. It should be higher but open worl...
kk ty
halcyon timber
No sweat dude
spring bough
But the big one will give a 400 reward and that should be today or this weekend
spring bough
Maybe a gear reward soon too
halcyon timber
Yeh would be fat
spring bough
Idk the gear one from Tuesday was gone by the time I got back on yesterday not too sure when they change
Thought I had a couple days to get it logged in and went oh man lol
also the spark quest was giving 0 trophy of strife yesterday idk if that’s fixed yet or not
halcyon timber
Yeah thought it was 72 hour windows for wq
Trophies were a bug and were fixed apparently
muted abyss
both ED and Thal pvp zones are empty lol
I guess the mass bloody token farm is over
maybe will pick up during peak hours
spring bough
It’ll probably be back later tonight
halcyon timber
Like 50s -63
spring bough
I didn’t get into that until around 11 pm est last night
sharp sierra
is 70 to 80 ok?
halcyon timber
Yeh
sharp sierra
i transferred my character to another popular realm (tichondrius) not realizing this was a west coast server lol
im on east
halcyon timber
Me too
sharp sierra
ah lol
muted abyss
one of my guildies on proudmoore made like 2k tokens in 30 minutes last night, hopefully we get similar rates tonight
sharp sierra
ah ok
spring bough
Do I finally make the swap from Belf to nelf this season for meld
rose wigeon
Always nelf, bis visuals lmao
rose wigeon
one of my guildies on proudmoore made like 2k tokens in 30 minutes last night, h...
How
wintry dew
Wondering the same
rose wigeon
Thats a shit ton
spring bough
Get a 5 group. Get a boomy or mage
wintry dew
I did 1.8 by completing every w.quest + assassin bounty + warsupply X2 and GY farm
spring bough
You stand behind the tree at the GY Rez
Let them do the work and get melee off them
rose wigeon
Interesting
spring bough
And you get so many tokens
wintry dew
Maybe layer population difference then
spring bough
The boomy I was with last night
Was doing 300k DPS
I’m on tichondrius so loads of people
I was lagging so bad I’d hit buttons and i wouldn’t see it for about 5 seconds lol
halcyon timber
Do I finally make the swap from Belf to nelf this season for meld
Sindorei forever
wintry dew
I farmed bloody tokens with a warrior... I found a pixel perfect place to just afk at
wintry dew
There's a rock a "level" below the gy zone
rose wigeon
Share with the class
spring bough
Lol can u damage people from below the GY?
wintry dew
Nono
But they also don't kill you
You just there, sniffing all the honor / b.coins
It got to the point I had assassin marker on me
And people were wondering how to reach me
And I literally logged out in their face xD
halcyon timber
XD
halcyon timber
halcyon timber
Moonkin are dropping sputniks on people
spring bough
I think the only other class I’m gonna play at the start of this season is my BM hunter. The new talents fee nasty for it
Plus the tier bonus for BM hunter is nuts
halcyon timber
Nice to also see convoke can absolutely smoke you in a rake stun too
Yeah bm dire beast tier chunks like warrior mortal strike
Watched an aug get slapped by a bm badly on ptr testing
Dude couldn’t out heal that
spring bough
When you have 3 pets doing kill command and KC buffed out the ass it’s gonna be amazing lol
halcyon timber
Was flying around doing harry potter ish and got mangled
spring bough
Just macro it to my mouse keybind and spam all day
halcyon timber
Thoughts on hunters mark change?
Its cool hunters can do that at least
Good for them ya know
Nice little bonus
spring bough
I dont even know what changed for it. Did they add damage back to it? Ima have to add it back to my bar
halcyon timber
5% when above 80% life for whole raid / party
fossil finch
anywhere i can find some outlaw pvp builds?
fossil finch
is there a big winner between killing spree and ghostly strike ?
for pvp
which one would be better
halcyon timber
Dunno if they are on atm though
fossil finch
thanks @halcyon timber
spring bough
Probably won’t know about KS or GS for a week or so
I’m rocking KS right now as a backup if crackshot doesn’t get a kill and it’s been doing orettt well
halcyon timber
You figure this , GS is going to ignore 15% of their defense
As the target takes 15% increased dmg from you
KS is pretty nasty though now and you could reasonably use both
spring bough
Also a 1.5 minute CD so with cdr probably makes it like 30 seconds or so and it’s a 15 second buff
halcyon timber
Yeh w a few ace resets, its up fast
Ho is nastyyyy
Was a build popo was using yesterday and he recommend it
@fossil finch
fossil finch
this is for arenas right
spring bough
I tried 1/2 vigor with 1/2 lethality and felt energy starved sometimes. Went back to 2/2 vigor lol
fossil finch
im playing with 1/2 vigot and it seems okay
waxen meteor
Morning America, Blood Token Mastery Hand in world pvp quest, grab it before it leaves!
spring bough
What’s the timer on that Wq lol
halcyon timber
this is for arenas right
Multi purpose yes
I preferred CTO and 1 into dispatch and did 2/2 lethality and swift slasher and had around 8% haste and it felt fine on energy
Cto popped up alot and rolled treasure pretty frequently along with blade rush to help
New tier helped a lot on ptr to refresh rolls you wanted to keep and improved adrenaline was right on the money
gilded flame
yeah 4pc is gonna be such a great quality of life later
halcyon timber
Yeah it was smooth as heck
gilded flame
no one really going down to heavy hitter at all?
halcyon timber
I liked heavy hitter
gilded flame
i feel like thats not a bad path though I had to give up cheap tricks and improved BTE
I really wish you could get full lethality though
tribal badger
I think I'd take grapple cdr before I took triple threat tbh
See alot of ppl taking triple theat for some reason
Idk if pvp dudes know it doesnt work for ambush
gilded flame
I think triple threat is weak as hell but its right there so
oh shit it doesn't lol
well then
twin burrow
weapon master gives 2x combo points or no
tribal badger
It's placement dowsnt make sense for that but it's oof
It reads like a part of ss multistike that ambush shuld inherit
Tt is probably 0.0001% dps in pvp honestly
gilded flame
well the ambush talents state they inherit everything so
tribal badger
I'd drop it for a utility node
jolly sierra
a guildie just told me
gilded flame
but I am guessing mastery is falling off a ton now
jolly sierra
i was playing with 424 ilvl infurious boots
tribal badger
Ye mastery kinda got nuked
halcyon timber
BQQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAkQSSSiwBSSIJOASkkmkEtkIlkAAAAAAgUKhEJBFyBKRAAAAIJA
Was what i was using on ptr
jolly sierra
noticed when he was recrafting
halcyon timber
Used alacrity trinket and take em’ and take your cut for a good bit of energy regen to synergize well with swift slasher
gilded flame
if we go all in on haste maybe could forgo vigor and get lethality for a pretty solid overall damage increase, wonder if we move in that direction later
halcyon timber
A good few flexible points as well
Would need a lot of haste probably or to really watch ace resets and buried treasure up time
inner tartan
if we go all in on haste maybe could forgo vigor and get lethality for a pretty ...
I like idea
gilded flame
what else is there to go for then?
inner tartan
Not competitive but I’m here for a fun time
gilded flame
crit is so bad in pvp though, and we already get so much anyway
gilded flame
its absolutely not a 3x mod in pvp
halcyon timber
Er for you
gilded flame
I tested with and without the talent, it goes up like 20% with the talent
its a buff to something that crits almost all the time but its not that much
halcyon timber
Yeah crit damage is down 25%
I just find a sweet spot w crit and then leave it alone
gilded flame
then why does my BTE crits go from 66k to 75k when I talent into it?
when normal is like 35-40k
go test
like its not hard to test, thats why I did it
you honestly think they would let BTE crit for 3x in pvp thats insane
inner tartan
then why does my BTE crits go from 66k to 75k when I talent into it?
Mine hit wayyy harder
halcyon timber
Yep
gilded flame
but like, I literally checked the numbers
so something is not right then?
show me
inner tartan
My bte can hit for up 2 120k in bgs n skirmish
gilded flame
because our baseline crit chance is like 40% without going into it
inner tartan
I wanna go hast
gilded flame
and its free damage
inner tartan
140 attack speed
Zoom zoom zoom
Swap ghost strikes for swift slasher n stack ves hast
spring bough
I was running this except no stam and no GS and I picked up swift slasher and CTO
Was talking to Verm and we will prob hit vers cap so we could drop the vers talent too
tribal badger
Vers talent isn't effected by dr
gilded flame
better to drop the rating from gear take the talent
halcyon timber
Yeh can make up stats in diff ways
spring bough
Gotcha didn’t realize that. Dropping the stam talent was like 30k health for me and I was doing fine surviving. Don’t know if I’m gonna use it or not
tribal badger
Ss is odd one
It's primary value is the energy gen it gives u
But law doesn't really run out of energy during crackshot windows
So what r u using that energy for
spring bough
I felt a little starved on energy with 1/2 vigor and 1/2 lethality so I just went 2/2 vigor
tribal badger
Yea 2/2 vigor is nice
spring bough
That was outside of crackshot windows when I felt starved
spring bough
I keep going back n forth with dropping heavy hitter and the blind talent too. With both blind talents CD is 45 second and 20rd range and seems pretty good at disrupting people
tribal badger
I dont think u play the blind talent over gouge ever
Isn't it like a 2.5s blind in pvp?
spring bough
I was using both
tribal badger
Well he said both blind talents
spring bough
For skirmishes with tons of pets it was doing nice with locks
tribal badger
U cant sap of blinds ever if u take that
spring bough
It felt like a nice disrupter and you could burn people while everyone’s disoriented
halcyon timber
Agreed
tribal badger
Idk law can't do much in a 2.5s window
Requires them being stacked
Vs just gouging healer and also having blind?
Gouge is just as disruptive but lasts longer
halcyon timber
Yeah has to be an ungodly “dude was afk at the bus stop” type sap
spring bough
20 yard range is useful for it. I’m always gonna be swapping back n forth testing it lol
gilded flame
it basically becomes like DK or pally blind but everything removes it not just certain damage
also aoe blind would aoe remove dots I would think that kind of sucks
seems like a nice toy if you are fucking around though
spring bough
It was pretty useful with the GY wpvp last night saved me more than once lol
gilded flame
cheap blind sap exists though thats really reasonable for us to do
torn stump
which one prefer, +100energy or +2%crit +20%crit dam?
gilded flame
the energy almost universally