I am so confused with feral lol
#pvp
waxen meteor
it looks like they have 182048328408 different skills for rupture
and the icons look the same
quaint cedar
I still hate that feral has basically two shreds. Actual shred and brutal slash. And you use brutal slash in single target even though it is aoe
Also warriors heal more than ferals do and that makes me sad as a former feral main
jolly sierra
alright tanked 8 CR
going ret
there was an ench which just deleted my partners
what a fucker
wary spire
Shaman feels like such a casino class in shuffle. Waddles around for 3 rounds doing nothing, then deletes someone out of nowhere.
Adhd representation.
surreal barn
Also warriors heal more than ferals do and that makes me sad as a former feral m...
I didn’t know former feral mains existed, once you git gud @ feral don’t you stay there 😆
surreal barn
Fair enough. I feel like a really good feral is the most fun class to watch
They are insane
quaint cedar
I decided to try outlaw randomly one day and decided that was my new main. And then next season after that I started doing rated arena
Would not recommend learning arenas on outlaw lol
Agreed though, good ferals are fun to watch
surreal barn
If I started wow on another class I’m not sure I’d have ever swapped to rogue
But now I’m stuck here 🤷♂️
quaint cedar
lol
I can't really play other classes anymore
Now that I main rogue
I just feel so comfortable on it
And I love all the tools it has
surreal barn
Yeah you lose a lot of the premeditation to plan
quaint cedar
I never would have thought I would be a rogue main though. It really just happened out of nowhere for me
I do hope to some day rediscover my love of feral. Problem is that it lost so much of the hybrid feel over the years
So it's been hard for me to get into it anymore
Going to try it again though
Rdruid has been fun at least
stoic spruce
I leveled as assassination and swapped to outlaw in a dungeon. I was like "oh shit they have a grappling hook" and that was it.
quaint cedar
lol for me it was both the hook and pistol
stoic spruce
yeah the pistol too was huge
jolly sierra
Shaman feels like such a casino class in shuffle. Waddles around for 3 rounds do...
its like the shifty fucker in ur RPG game which attacks u from nowhere but stays passive most of time
wary spire
When I was leveling my rogue in legion I thought outlaw was the nuts. Pistol shot was so much more fun than assa. Sub at least had teleports.
halcyon timber
Outlaw will rise again, the time is nigh.
stoic spruce
Nah, the pve nerds are holding it back.
final kite
I have fun playing outlaw in open world 1v1s, is it still niche af in arena?
floral crest
Shaman feels like such a casino class in shuffle. Waddles around for 3 rounds do...
Lol don’t be hatin on us shams. We love the lottery class
sour charm
"Oh right lets check the new battle ground blitz post"
During the time a node is fully captured and your team controls it for 45 seconds, the enemy team cannot recapture the base until it deactivates and resets. A node that cannot be captured will have a shield visual on it.
what the fuck is going on
That is only for Arathi and Deepwind
But man I thought I could ninja shit
Now you need to be there in the 5 second window after the shield goes down I guess
pale storm
I believe you can cap a node, then you have 30 seconds to defend it, after that if you defend it you have that base for 45 seconds (it has a shield) after that 45 seconds it just resets so you have to take again then
sour charm
Correct
But that means its safe from any ninja attempts for 45 seconds
and your window is the 5sec + 30sec capture time
Which is still doable, but cuts down on the potential quite a bit.
It does also add mindgames to the re-capture after the 45 seconds. SInce if you sit at the base/come back to recapture, you might have another rogue contesting it
and with a 4second cap timer its gonna be a lot of back and forth potentially
queen geyser
pale storm
for sure, going to be interesting, should be a fun game mode though for sure
languid ravine
guys gimme strength, im like 90 CR away from 2k1
thats easy, just dont get griefed by your 1500 rated healers 6 rounds in a row
and lose rating equal to 4 hard earned wins
jolly sierra
thats easy, just dont get griefed by your 1500 rated healers 6 rounds in a row
i won't, im pushing w 3 chars at same time
i lose w one, i log in w the other one
lol
nova viper
tribal badger
i just got my dk to get to max and unlock the mog on before season ends
🙏
thank god for TW event for leveling
wary spire
@jolly sierra how was it?
wary spire
Is it only for rated or all?
jolly sierra
<@239851547935113216> how was it?
dropped 28 CR, got a hunter and 2 hpals healing alongside an augvoker and a chicken
wary spire
dropped 28 CR, got a hunter and 2 hpals healing alongside an augvoker and a chic...
Jesus.
jolly sierra
so don't expect too much, one of those dumbass holys used BOP AGAINST FUCKING CHICKEN
damn i fucking hate hpals
dunno how tf ppl says they are S tier
wary spire
"Quickly, random bullshit go!"
jolly sierra
lol
exotic dove
Blind and sap are back baby
Thank GOd
Oh its only for the Blits but hey still better than nothing
I plan on doing that
That change needs to be done to reg bgs and rated bgs as well
halcyon timber
Yeah it is going to be sick
surreal barn
Regular BGs are gonna die a swift death
Knowing your team will have the same healers as the other is so nice.
tribal badger
i doubt that
lots of people dislike the ranked aspect (Cause it makes them feel like its tryhard) in game modes like this
but im def looking forward to it
languid ravine
people need to queue skirmish or random battlegrounds if they wanna know where the tryhards are
stoic spruce
I find it so crazy and funny that unrated pvp is much harder than rated
languid ravine
I find it almost obvious since it is an unbalanced mess 99% of the time
even in balanced games you just tip the scales a little and it becomes a snowball
stoic spruce
In every other game, rated is usually harder.
That's what happens when you have almost 20 years of cheese to use at your disposal
pale storm
lol just 4-2 a 2050 lobby as sub on my lower geared alt with no boots because I had a recraft order and it didn't get completed fast enough, was 418 ilvl lol
jolly sierra
got a 3-3
cuz the warrior in the end match
just went straight to mage
in mid of all
and the guy went 100-0 in like 3 seconds
no defensive used
the guy had a t3 and a wod glad mount
languid ravine
wod were different times, you could basically play by a script and be at 95% skill level
although some scripts were pretty tough like Sub rogue xd
quaint cedar
I've just been stuck on my 2nd rdruid at 2k even though I cruised to 2.1k so easily on my first rdruid
Keep losing to dumb shit lol
languid ravine
I got an inversion of your problem
quaint cedar
My favorite is both dps dying simultaneously while on complete opposite sides of the map
languid ravine
I struggled the most to get 1800 on Arms warrior
now I m like 200 above every other spec on it
quaint cedar
lol
I'm higher on my rdruids in shuffle than on either of my rogues
Even though rogue is my main
languid ravine
dats sick, healing is maximum rigged
quaint cedar
I just can't stand dps queue times
quaint cedar
Grats! Good luck and bad luck all at once lol
jolly sierra
i spawnm next to huolon and just shuriken toss it to get a mount lol
that is the compensation for ur misfortune
sharp stone
nah
next game i go i win 2 first rounds just to lose next 4 and lose 41 rating
7 lobbies in a row with 2-4 paladins and warriors, boring
stuck shard
languid ravine
so close now but I m getting to my limits :/
jolly sierra
dude u are winning most of matches it seems
keep going
i stopped w rog for now cuz got 3-3
im going ret now
languid ravine
just one more >_<
languid ravine
my DH dropped from 2300 to 2000
and then I lost vs Edaniel
:^)
but dont tell him
he ll start bullying me 😦
whats nice about arms is two things, first its low on cognitive load so you can macrogame easily
and second you can tweak talents
dont have that luxury on most classes
worthy crag
Is the consensus that this season is faster paced than season 1?
Like burst dmg, people dying to burst etc
jolly sierra
he ll start bullying me 😦
he is the assa chad
so dont feel so bad
lol
was about to get a 4-2
then the mage decided to doesnt cancel aura alter time
and fucking died
i legit think ppl is trolling me hard
jolly sierra
LETSGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
dude gg
now im remaining w at least 2k1
im 1970+ w the rog, ret and the ww
so at least 1 should get 2k1 a this step
lucid citrus
cmonnnn i know you will get itt
lucid citrus
Conq should be the one that gets reset
worthy crag
hm
lucid citrus
honor should roll over
worthy crag
ok
jolly sierra
losing 1-5 w monk
maybe
0-5
0-6 i say
fuck it
had w my monk a dk, a hunter and a mage
languid ravine
fun fact: you can buy all Elite weapon transmogs as Warrior, except for Warglaives
languid ravine
yea literally only the dagger looks good
the warglaives arent even hi-res
I think they are cataclysm reskins or something
many years before DH even existed
that must be it
feels kinda scammy but whatevs
languid ravine
nah not really but I m like 80% sure Ive seen the models from some expansion before Dragonflight
jolly sierra
bruh
uneven grove
Can i get 2.4 tonight? We’ll see
ofc
languid ravine
every shuffle match is a "?" moment
wary spire
I remember a dh that said something strange and we with healer both went "?"
minor cape
I remember a dh that said something strange and we with healer both went "?"
dh said "oooga booga"
they cant say anything else
warriors too
wary spire
It's halloween season, they're saying booga ooga.
wary spire
Learning German rn and my god.
All the genders.
I want to die/der/das.
"How are things? Things".
minor cape
It's halloween season, they're saying booga ooga.
dh players when it's the opposite day
nova viper
Learning German rn and my god.
I'm coming from a contained point of view. You can communicate with a German in English, but not with an Englishman in German, so the calculation is simple 
wary spire
I'm coming from a contained point of view. You can communicate with a German in ...
Not in Pforzheim. ~~
spring bough
Saw this on Reddit. Thoughts on fake or real? Looks like a titan xpack
wary spire
As long as it's not on wowhead I consider it fake.
inner tartan
As long as it's not on wowhead I consider it fake.
💯
quaint cedar
Honestly seems like it could be legit, however I'd consider it fake until proven otherwise
wary spire
Hope this is fake. We currently have a snowy and a foresty zone.
cosmic agate
3k last season frost mage lf new arena mates 2s or 3s DM me With exp I play both ally and horde
wary spire
3k last season frost mage lf new arena mates 2s or 3s DM me With exp I play bot...
Psst
Not telling nobody coz not a snitch. But ya know.
jolly sierra
oh no trickz will get mad reading this
quaint cedar
wtf is wrong with solo shuffle right now
my 2nd rdruid is just hard stuck several hundred rating below my first rdruid
I've had so many people just
not pressing defensives
splitting off so I can't heal both
doing 0 damage
wtf is actually going on
literally just got stuck in a wall in ruins from a fear
I think this character is cursed
surreal barn
Saw this on Reddit. Thoughts on fake or real? Looks like a titan xpack
Toyota Avalon mount incoming
surreal barn
my 2nd rdruid is just hard stuck several hundred rating below my first rdruid
Need 3rd uncursed druid
quaint cedar
I'm already down more than 100 points from where I started today
Holy shit this is aids
Also getting so tired of the same classes every game
My last 5 shuffles have had a ret, an ele, and some type of lock
quaint cedar
Hunters are everywhere too
wary spire
No rogues?
I've seen a lot of wars and dks. Unholy ones. Frost met 0 times.
Out all the specs boomies were strangely absent.
waxen meteor
Ret and War are probably most commonly seen classes in lobbies
Did my daily skirmish for alts, my SP runs into a 3s with a marksman hunter, he doesn't even equipt trinket
wary spire
Jesus having a brainfart after brainfart.
waxen meteor
I have seen many sin rogue lately
just 1 sub rogue
probably all playign side specs
wary spire
I have seen many sin rogue lately
Representation! 
And thank god rogues are rare. 2 rogues on your side feels like an autoloss.
quaint cedar
I think just playing the game is an auto loss for me at this point
I have never been so sad playing solo shuffle
hidden mirage
Faced lobby today with 2 evokers, dwarf surv hunter and hpala. God I wish the devs should play pvp once, just to see how frustrating it is against so many dispels.
wary spire
I have never been so sad playing solo shuffle
Some days are fucked. Just log off and relax.
pale storm
The last few shuffles I’ve done between 1900-2100 have been a lot of undergeared people and a lot of people with low CR, so my guess is just people gearing alts for next season and their mmr is high because of their mains maybe or haven’t played this season? I know I was like 1850 my first shuffle on my alt rogue and went 4-2 three times and am 2100+ mmr
quaint cedar
omg
my ret
just killed himself
by dispelling unstable affliction
60% -> dead in 1.6 sec
I can't do it anymore
wary spire
Man.
quaint cedar
Some days are fucked. Just log off and relax.
Yeah....I think I'm done for today lmao
This is just pure misery
jolly sierra
just killed himself
where tf is the spellwarden
dat rets
nah ngl i had shitty experiences w pallies yesterday too
like the fkn dumbass holy who used bop against a chicken
quaint cedar
We had an all wizard lobby except for him and he never played spellwarden once
Instead he thought judgement dispel was a good idea.... against an aff lock
He died literally 15 seconds into the round
I hate every single ret in solo shuffle
And fuck hunters too
jolly sierra
dude
quaint cedar
Never press turtle ever even when their healer is in a 14 second cc chain
jolly sierra
rlly
that is true peabrain experience
yesterday had a mage too
who used alter time
didn't cancelled it
and died
xd
waxen meteor
60% -> dead in 1.6 sec
Yeah don't do that
My DH suicide once as well
Was a clear win in skirmish, then my brain stopped working, wanted to try reverse magic to use dot to kill him
worthy crag
If I could ban one spec permanently from my sub RSS lobbies Id be hard split between arms and fistweaver
wary spire
As long as it's not on wowhead I consider it fake.
Wellp...
long shore
If I could ban one spec permanently from my sub RSS lobbies Id be hard split bet...
Banning warrior any day
Pretty obnoxious class for rogue
waxen meteor
nice 32 mins queue already
normally when it's after 30 mins queue i got -600 cr healer lobby
quaint cedar
Honestly that's tough. As outlaw I would probably ban any of the three plate classes. Pallys hard counter us with their CDs, warriors are just annoying af and can't ever die to outlaw, and DKs always go either 6-0 or 0-6 it feels like
waxen meteor
Nice, did a 6-0 after 35 mins queue, finally last alt this season, DH went 2100
Against Sub/Boomie/Enhanc
sharp stone
waxen meteor
Grat!
sharp sierra
waxen meteor
I don't play PTR, but it sounds like it will change a lot
like we seem to get a couple of new skills
so these 2 weeks we should max out our honor, right?
I remember the start of s2 didn't clean up honor
floral crest
Yea get honor for next seasons blue gear
It’s what I’m working on for all classes now lol
Got 7 classes to duelist this season
floral crest
I think I’ll have 3-4 in S3
waxen meteor
it's exhausting at beginning of season to play too many chars
i will probably start with rogue and ret (cause got a orange weapon next season)
then might do a sidebar range spec, might be whatever OP
thick slate
@uneven grove you were right, we got it
twin burrow
I think she is
stoic spruce
this might be a caster meta
uneven grove
<@365915225280479232> you were right, we got it
ez af
uneven grove
i still dunno if i return in 10.2, if so i will play assa rogue and maybe some MW monk
or i just wait until 11.0
queen geyser
Honestly that's tough. As outlaw I would probably ban any of the three plate cla...
Pally on my end, no contest
At least I have counterplay for Warrs big bleeds and die by the sword
And we eat DKs
stoic spruce
I eat food
And dks
And warriors
My favorite foods in order are my soft tacos (I make the best soft tacos), biscuits and sausage, DKs, cheeseburgers, warriors.
quaint cedar
Yeah. I mean especially in 2s warriors are usually free food for outlaw as long as your healer is competent
Even so, I still hate fighting warriors because I just find the matchup so incredibly boring
Because warrior is not a kill target until late damp so it's usually a tunnel healer game
💤
jolly sierra
If I could ban one spec permanently from my sub RSS lobbies Id be hard split bet...
i would ban paladins or hunters or augvokers
one for being fucking bad as healer, the other one for being the least effort high reward class in game and the other one for carry wins for itself
jolly sierra
<@239851547935113216> u are rank1 in this season?
r1? no fkn way
im just a humble 2k player for now kek
u recalled me i need to log in and keep pvpeing
jolly sierra
1-5
lock was about to do a 6-0 but the guy decided to die fast now
and had a surv and 2 pallies against me
as assa
XD
worthy crag
4 set eviscerate + cold blood hit for 140k just for its physical part
I swear secret tech isnt even necessary anymore
pale storm
Huge!
jolly sierra
OOF dat swag
im getting closer
2040 ATM
will continue tomorrow (barely had time to play today)
waxen meteor
6-0 and 100th win, now that is style
Wow!
shy veldt
6-0 and 100th win, now that is style
Woulda been more stylish if you dinged honor level 420
thick slate
gz! I see you playing the rotten cdr build. Do you prefer that over reprimand 1 dance build for solo ?
teal imp
Yes and for the looks
teal imp
Can replace non cd spells with cd ones for example with showtooltip
wintry dew
Sometimes for arena1/2/3 macros
sharp stone
why some people have 2 the same spells on cast bar?
focus spell and regular cast spell
restive cedar
s1 have a macro for focus target ?
echo canyon
hey there
I have not been playing wow for a while
is actually assa and sub viable for shuffle?
worthy crag
gz! I see you playing the rotten cdr build. Do you prefer that over reprimand 1 ...
I honestly dont even know what the 1 dance reprimand build is. Is that a new thing in season 2? I mostly did the same build as season 1 after coming back
vale lynx
Just lvl my rogue and want to play assa in 2s with priest healer, do i go only tier chest, 2 set or 4 set? Seen all off them but only chest seems most used, why? :p
echo canyon
any recommended build for sub?
vale lynx
2set fucks stealth
How does it fuck stealth?
jolly sierra
How does it fuck stealth?
2set has an awful interaction which makes additional dmg w rupture into a separated spell
that spell triggers dmg which breaks stealth and forces combat
vale lynx
Oh i see
chrome schooner
2set may screw up stealth
But it also brings a very, VERY beneficial bug to the table
the additional dmg with rupture in a separated spell, as you put it, is what keeps you in combat because it counts as a direct attack
Strangely enough it doesn't put the target in combat
BUT
It counts as a direct attack on the target
Which means it cancels ongoing drinks
Put some 40s blue cp rupture on a rdruid then forget about him for 40s, he goes for a drink, sits down, and keeps being cancelled without realizing why, then he hastily comes back with no mana gained and his team half dead
Very fun
jolly sierra
weird interaction indeed
jolly sierra
the thing is about sanguine blades tol
waxen meteor
despite it fucks my stealth
waxen meteor
some cases i just care about the 3 seconds for garrote
vale lynx
If I run 2 set, is it worth to go to 4 set?
waxen meteor
Most cases probably not
vale lynx
so just 2 set then?
waxen meteor
yeah
echo canyon
why not 4 set?
waxen meteor
I feel the value is limited
jolly sierra
i run 4set actually, the 3 ways are viable
waxen meteor
it's not bad, but nothing amazing anyway
jolly sierra
but if u care for stealth dont use it
chrome schooner
I did some thinking over assa s3 builds actually
I don't think Sanguine Blades is that great
I don't think we're ever going to overcap energy
jolly sierra
tbh the active effect they removed was the good one
jolly sierra
the passive was meh
jolly sierra
yeah agree lol
vale lynx
but if u care for stealth dont use it
My thoughts are, Im new to rogue so prob not gonna run restealth alot and play it as a warrior (not really but almost)
wary spire
the passive was meh
We have a "new" big dps button anyway in Kingsbane.
waxen meteor
Just need to redefine my keyboard lol
chrome schooner
Tbh imo next season there are two possible class trees & two possible spec trees
I really wish the version with sdance will be pulling ahead
wary spire
Just need to redefine my keyboard lol
Same. Dance on sub is deathmark on sin...
chrome schooner
Dance is such a nice spell when it's not loaded with cdr and is actually a spell you need to use intelligently
Also having insane uptime on the big garrotes sounds rather appealing
quaint cedar
Yeah, I like dance on outlaw being a hard 1 min CD with no CDR and not something you're just doing all the time
chrome schooner
big garrotes also creates damage reduction on us too, right?
on everyone
waxen meteor
Same. Dance on sub is deathmark on sin...
me is on er
chrome schooner
it's a debuff on the enemy actually
jolly sierra
dance will be nice to troll with garrote silence tho
waxen meteor
with dance build do we still keep er?
waxen meteor
what is badge, sorry for my broken english
chrome schooner
Also having big garrotes up all the time will be insane with shiv buffing bleed dmg even more, and the execute talent giving another 10% bleed
badge is the 1min cd burst trinket that you have to use
The blue helm icon
chrome schooner
No you don't 'cause it doesn't function with the spec currently
You don't have damage every 1min that is worth buffing, like WWs or Fire Mages
But if you play Dance and Kingsbane you can actually do the big go every minute
waxen meteor
sounds like a plan!
chrome schooner
Dance provides 30% additional crit with Master Assassin + 10% flat damage with nightstalker
Then Badge gives a lot of attack power
Then a charge of Thistle Tea that gives 13% Mastery, lasts as long as Shadow Dance, perfect
And Kingsbane for damage
All that while keeping people in CC and buffing your Garrotes
waxen meteor
oh fuck, i completely forgot master assasin can be enabled with dance
chrome schooner
Yeah I think without it Dance wouldn't be that great
chrome schooner
it is
jolly sierra
what is badge, sorry for my broken english
thought u were native in english all this time what the heck
thick slate
I honestly dont even know what the 1 dance reprimand build is. Is that a new thi...
its a build where you pick echoing reprimand and you only have 1 shadow dance charge, and you dont pick the cdr talents. Basically every 1 minute you have a huge go, thats basically it
but yeah the rotten build offers more flexibility due to more controlled burst i feel like, even though its a bit lower
did you go 4set or 2set?
chrome schooner
It's been the case forever
Forever being DF S1 since Assa did not have access to Shadow Dance before then
It's just that it was always outperformed by other talents
But with the tree redesign giving easier access to good talents and the removal of many useless options on the path to Shadow Dance, plus the fact that bleed damage is somewhat buffed (and Shadow Dance allows buffed Garrotes, the very best bleed) and the fact that Ambush damage will be better, Shadow Dance now just looks better
jolly sierra
shade do u think blindside will be viable with shadow dance route?
jolly sierra
yeah lol
chrome schooner
well the thing about blindside is that on the row it is located you don't want to put many points
jolly sierra
oof
jolly sierra
and u wanna use them in shiv instead right?
chrome schooner
and I thik to unlock the left side the shiv talent is just a better pick
jolly sierra
gotcha
chrome schooner
I may be wrong
and well on that line I would pick Bone Spike too
I was thinking of picking blinside instead, but with Vicious Venoms making Mutilate more expensive I think having a cheap spell would be nice
surreal barn
You talking about ptr?
chrome schooner
well, since it will be live in 10 days, yes :p
wary spire
I want to try this.
surreal barn
The procs happen so often that energy didn’t seem like an issue when I was specced into it
jolly sierra
u are making me more desperate lol
chrome schooner
I don't think playing without Lethal Dose is good though
jolly sierra
fkn 2040 CR
chrome schooner
It's literally 2% more DoT damage per DoT effect
Garrote, Rupture, Mutilated Flesh, Deadly Poison, Serrated Bone Spike, that's already a 10% damage loss not to play it
And then you have Internal Bleeding and Kingsbane sometimes for 4 more %
And Deathmark, yet another 2
wary spire
But big ambush dream. 
chrome schooner
I mean you cna keep that dream and just move the points from Sanguine Blades and Improved Poisons for instance
wary spire
Hear me out
This will make me hate snd even more, BUT
Or yeah, improved poisons can go.
chrome schooner
I like something like this, for instance:
https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/talent-calc/rogue/assassination/DAOFVVFBVQUVZGJAQCBANVURUUWJQRFiUECVQ
I just put 2 points in Lethality because probably this build focuses more on Garrote & Kingsbane than on Envenom, but if having more resources is needed the points can be moved into ER. And in that case maybe going for Poison Bomb would be nice as well since you'd be using more Envenoms with many CPs. I suppose 4x poisons can be a pick instead of the bottom right as well, so you have a permanent MS and aren't forced into Hemotoxin, with a few points put into Improved Wound & Numbing in the class tree in that case.
But I'm thinking playing somewhat like in SL S3/S4 without Wound and with Shiv being big dam + big MS can probably work, because the 4x poison talent feels underwhelming so I'd rather skip it tbh
wary spire
Mmm. Maybe bonespike can go.
https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/talent-calc/rogue/assassination/DAOFVUVBVBUVZGJAQCAQNVURUUWJQVEiUEBV
Like that.
Changed the left one also.
Here im only really sorry about the bspike.
But other than that looks pgood.
chrome schooner
The thing about Bonespike is that since Mutilate will cost more energy I'm not sure running without any cheap spell that you can just throw to generate CPs when it's really, really needed will ffel comfortable
It may lack flexibility
wary spire
That's what tea is for.
chrome schooner
Well yes but if you have to use 3 charges of tea within 45s then you'll have the problem eventually, and rather quickly :p
Also remember that now your Shiv will buff Bone SPike thanks to Arterial Precision, and that Sudden Demise also buffs it
So, it'll be better than it is now
+, it's 2% more damage on everything else with Lethal Dose
(I really would like to hvae the free ambsh procs too, but ...)
wary spire
Yeah we need to see how impactfull ambush vs bspike turnes out to be in the end.
Like after tuning.
And I honestly hope bspike will win out shiv/blindside. For now my feelcraft tells me nah.
wary spire
That's why it's sad to lose it.
waxen meteor
@chrome schooner why did you pick this one
Just a random pick to unlock 20 required?
chrome schooner
It is the best one out of the ones that remain to unlock 20
waxen meteor
yeah i figured lol
chrome schooner
With Mutilate/Ambush doing more damage with Vicious Venoms, 20% more isn't bad compared to the other available talents
Like you basically have o ly 3 other options
waxen meteor
You picked that over sanguin
chrome schooner
Yes
waxen meteor
what a failed redesign lol
chrome schooner
Because Sanguine is not that great imo
waxen meteor
re-designed talent that loses to a skipable talent 🙂
chrome schooner
We will never, ever overcap energy
So I don't think we need to passively dump it
Like it works only past 150 energy
I don't think we're there that often past the opener, or an early tea
chrome schooner
It has been removed yes
jolly sierra
i hope i finish working soon so i can push forward w chars
waxen meteor
hmm if we lose mark for death and lose ER
doesn't it feel harder to maintain dots on multiple targets
but as you described with the 1 min cd for dance and kingsbane
jolly sierra
are we losing ER?
waxen meteor
it seems we are more single oriented
jolly sierra
ahhhh
chrome schooner
That's why I detailed my pick a little and said maybe ER would still be the way if it feels too slow, or if the damage has to come from Envenom
wary spire
are we losing ER?
A button freed just in time for Kingsbane kek.
chrome schooner
There is also possibility to skip Dance entirely, like now, and play ER + Tea + Deeper
And you'd basically play current Assa with more damage and with KB
waxen meteor
I feel deeper isn't that needed
i will probably move these a bit myself
but seems quite a good direction in general
you also skipped wounded stacks
but i guess it's not fixed anyway
chrome schooner
Yah because if I don't play Dragon Tempered Blades then I don't play Wound and go for Hemotoxin instead
waxen meteor
you go slow and deadly?
chrome schooner
Yeah. Wait I'll share a couple builds and explain my thought process
jolly sierra
and there are better stuff
waxen meteor
I will miss disarm
wary spire
Why?
jolly sierra
I will miss disarm
those mages are safe once again
waxen meteor
Well if you pick hemo, most likely you will give up disarm
lucid citrus
Is lethality important for that build? or is it for combo point generate?
waxen meteor
i miss cloak more
wary spire
I drop smoke.
jolly sierra
hmmmm
twin burrow
Lethality makes garrote pump
waxen meteor
I drop smoke.
nuh
jolly sierra
dunno, ngl cloak is good but i would pick it mostly in matches where the guy is an assa, a WW or a feral
wary spire
I mean I don't think I can survive a single war without a cloak and disarm.
jolly sierra
2m cd vs 45s disarming a melee seems more convincent imo
lucid citrus
cause cant we drop Lethality to get ER? i mean we already have so much more damage increase for Garrote on thre right side of the tree
just an observation
chrome schooner
https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/talent-calc/rogue/assassination/DAOFVVFBVQUVZGJAQCBANVURUUWJQRFiUECVQ
That would be Dance + no DTB. 2 points in Lethality rather than in ER because with master Assassin giving a lot of crit during Dance Garrote and Kingsbane tics will crit a lot and do bonus damage with Lethality. The build focuses mostly on that.
IF it happens that ER and big Envenoms are a better choice damage wise then simply put the 2 from Lethality into ER. That also means that in the spec tree Poison Bomb makes more sense, but you have to give up one of the 3 selected capstones, which doesn't look too good. IF it has to be done, then I'd remove sudden demise & Scent of Blood to pick Poison Bomb and DTB. In that case you need to make sure you have Improved Wound and Numbing in the class tree, so it becomes something like that:
https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/talent-calc/rogue/assassination/DAOFVUVFRBUVRGZEQCAAMVURUUWJQRFoVCVQ
And if, in the end, Dance isn't the play you just put the 4 points that lead to Dance into 1x Lethality, 2x Alacrity, and 1x Deeper.
But that's without testing on a live ladder so it's very much feelcraft made
But I have to say DTB with only 20% Poison application chance feels bad in PvP
In PvE you can offset that by having insane Envenom buff uptime so you have 50% chance to apply poisons if you play good, but in PvP you'll mostly do Envenom damage on goes and reapply bleeds in between, so you won't apply many many poisons and keeping Wound stacked up on secondary targets will be extremely painful, which defeats the purpose of playing DTB since you can just MS your main target with Shiv when it's important by playing Hemotoxin (and also Arterial Precision makes Shiv AoE so when enemies are stacked up Hemotoxin is actually AoE so Wound just doesn't feel quite insane)
chrome schooner
cause cant we drop Lethality to get ER? i mean we already have so much more dama...
Stacking multipliers is what makes damage insane in this game though
But yeah, you can, I think it kind of comes down to what you want your build to focus on
chrome schooner
In the end there are 5-8 talents that can move around in both trees to change the gameplay a little while the rest is fixed
The 4P is the thing that makes Envenom do a very, very light AoE ONLY if you press Envenom while already having the Envenom buff ?
So only when you do Envenom into Envenom ?
lucid citrus
Stacking multipliers is what makes damage insane in this game though
ahh yeahh i think imma go with the first build you sent since it makes sense just sucks to lose ER lol
jolly sierra
yeah envenom into envenom
jolly sierra
in first iteration did like 1500 dmg in PTR
stlll recall
dunno how will work 2set in live
stacks overlap each other even if the amount is smaller than current buff stack count
for example u had 15 stacks then u do 7 and then that amount reduces to 7 w refreshed duration
waxen meteor
In the end there are 5-8 talents that can move around in both trees to change th...
Do you think it's better to use deadly/hexo or wound + disarm?
I am never a super believer in deadly's dmg..
chrome schooner
I mean with AoE shiv buffing nature & bleed dmg by 30% might as well also add a 30% ms right
Deadly deals a lot of damage actually
gritty bobcat
What is the ideal burst rotation for assa
chrome schooner
having to play hemotoxin only makes in painful in match-ups where you'd need both cloak & disarm (if we consider we keep smoke) so warriors, rogues etc
And in that case well, I think disarm is often better except maybe into assa, and then again it depends on your team too
I guess you can drop smoke if there is a match-up that really, really forces you into playing smoke & disarm, or you just do those games without deadly and pick wound instead
that's possible too
you just move a point in improved wound & voilà
do a bit less dmg but stay alive
('cause that way yu get cloak + disarm + smoke)
waxen meteor
yeah, is crimson tempset a solid choice in s3 against double melees?
chrome schooner
Don't think so now that they made its damage scale on the amount on enemies hit
Read its new tooltip
waxen meteor
ptr where
chrome schooner
You cna do it on the talent build links I sent you
They are made with ptr spells
pale storm
I love skirms
worthy crag
did you go 4set or 2set?
I went with 4set, some games I was getting 140k evisc physical + 70k shadow
quaint cedar
<@267110688105824257> wanna hear a funny joke?
Yeah, this company is a joke
wary spire
I think some laws would prefer 10% damage nerf than a worse feeling playstyle.
quaint cedar
Yeah this is just classic blizzard
keep nerfing the spec until its no longer fun to play
Yeah going to be real fun getting 0 procs and pressing sinister strike over and over again
And having no armor pen so dealing no damage against plate anyways
Amazing job blizz
wary spire
Hey that's great. As an assa I like that our bleeds got a massive buff. 
quaint cedar
Being fun to play doesn't mean good
If you're hitting a training dummy, sure
What are you testing on?
Because I can never find anyone
But when I did the Solo Q BGs it felt like nothing could ever die
And my damage was like mid most of the time
Hitting into plate feels completely terrible
Man the healers I played against in the BG tests were just immortal
3 dps on them and they are full HP
idk man
Like even if we're tuned high which I honestly doubt
We're just going to get nerfed anyways
Outlaw is performing well in mythic+ on the ptr
Which is a death sentence for tuning
I just don't even know why I bothered participating in the ptr
Doesn't feel like a single bit of feedback from outlaw rogues has been listened to
Yeah outlaw on live is weird
Its technically good but it feels like you can't really do much on your own
I hope the rework ends up being an upgrade
There's just so many negative changes that its hard to say
Yeah I guess so
idk
I've just....been through this whole thing before
I know what happens when outlaw is good in pve
It gets nerfed into the ground
And then we're just playing a nerfed outlaw that does the same damage as now but is even more reliant on RNG and has no armor pen
I think crit will be the way actually
Haste scaling seemed bad from my testing
Stacking it doesn't really do much
I found that taking Swift Slasher and then just running with the haste you get from talents (Take Em by Surprise, Alacrity) was good enough
I agree though mastery is lame
No way it's mastery
Especially if you run non HO
Because you pistol a lot
And that doesn't proc mastery
And I'm pretty sure blizzard is forcing us to go non HO at this point
With all the proc chance nerfs
Which makes me really sad because I always preferred HO
So much for having more choices
I mean
You realize the proc chance is
28% baseline right?
No its not
That's horrible
Outlaw has literally never had such a low proc chance for opportunity
No non HO runs the dispatcher talents
non HO probably be something like this
idk if last point goes into ghostly or GSW
tbh
Oh yeah probably vers talent instead
My bad
non HO is generally less energy starved than HO to begin with
So yeah swift slasher is probably not needed
You just store pistol procs instead
Before you dance/vanish
And you build with pistol
Also having Broadsides helps a lot
But I agree, I generally like HO better
Not that it matters what I like lol
Blizzard doesn't want us playing it
quaint cedar
I sure hope so
exotic dove
Those assassination buffs are nice
quaint cedar
I've been spamming the PTR thread about the HO nerf, spamming discord
quaint cedar
I even pinged Realz about it one time when he was in outlaw chat
But he didn't answer me
I genuinely feel like the HO proc nerf is an oversight for pvp because it double dips with tier already being nerfed in pvp and it affects EB too
PVP is a minigame though and blizz doesn't care so who knows if it will ever get fixed
wary spire
I genuinely feel like the HO proc nerf is an oversight for pvp because it double...
Well look at the bright side, in pvp the nerf is also twice as small.
quaint cedar
Bro you're crazy if you're running HO without vigor
Also cold blood is ass for outlaw no reason to play it
ohhh gotcha lol
Ok well just looking at right side I would say that's right
I personally liked slasher for HO better but idk for sure
Yeah
I'd take lethality if we had the points
But we need 2/2 vigor so not enough
And no way am I giving up acrobatic strikes
Outlaw doesn't feel right without it
Yeah I suppose
Ngl I really wish acro stayed outlaw only but I think it's too late for that now
It would probably feel awful for the other specs to lose it after getting used to having it for almost a year now
lol
Sub just has too much of everything honestly
It pretty much invalidates outlaw's entire existance
Right makes sense
Yeah I'm totally fine with sub being the stun everything and do big dam spec
But why is it tanky too?
That's where it really feels ridiculous imo
Earlier in the season when I was doing 2s as outlaw I legit had 12 minute games against sub + healer
I would win eventually but it was boring as shit
exotic dove
I do agree Sub seems to have stole a lot of what Outlaw had but Sin still feels like it has its own unique thing going on that Sub didn't steal imo
quaint cedar
Sub just vanishes or melds seemingly every 30 seconds lol
Can't punish it
Yeah I think the dynamic between sub and sin and the differences between them seems good and healthy. But sub and outlaw are too similar.
Not in playstyle, but in what they offer to an arena team
And what utilities they have
Except sub is just better
Because it has even more escape tools, shadowy duel, better burst, etc.
wary spire
Yep. I don't think sub should be about cd reduction and having better healing - it's law's territory.
quaint cedar
Exactly
Conversely, outlaw shouldn't have too much burst. Some is good. Just not as much as sub. Which I think the ptr has right. Crackshot seems great but still not as bursty as sub, like it should be
Outlaw should have better defensives and better sustain damage and lower burst compared to sub
And CDR should mostly be outlaw's thing
It was what made us strong in SL
I guess we have 1 more week of changes before patch goes live?
I really hope we get some pvp specific changes eventually
Looking at the full 10.2 patch notes, there's hardly any pvp changes at all
For any class
Except warriors for some reason lol
wary spire
Warrior's team is cookin'.
quaint cedar
Always are
Warriors always feastin
Man warrior healer in 2s is going to be so toxic
With 2 charges of intervene and healers having 1.5 min trinket
jolly sierra
both would be called to security
wary spire
And I do wish we had some new pvp talents. Even bad ones, like that sub mirage thingy nobody takes. They're kinda fun to at least think about and discuss.
jolly sierra
still recall vulperas being ganked in orgrimmar and nobody cared
wary spire
both would be called to security
Why is she calling human resources, they're not. Is she stupid?
jolly sierra
Why is she calling human resources, they're not. Is she stupid?
because humans rules the place
quaint cedar
Dude vulpera players are weird
jolly sierra
Dude vulpera players are weird
yiff uwu owo hewwo
and then calls you to go to the void in the other side
quaint cedar
I'll just be afk in a neutral city somewhere and a half naked vulpera will run up to me and just start emoting at me and being weird and following me
Has happened more than once
jolly sierra
yeah they are creeps
dunno why that doesnt happen w worgens, tauren or pandaren players
they behaves better lol
wary spire
Goblins are the most serious mofos around, so it's not the height.
jolly sierra
for me goblins are weird sometimes too
one called me a disgusting noob because i ganked him after he went to the robot in the arcane wpvp quest and started stomping ppl
wary spire
That's normal!
wary spire
I was a goblin before they did their update lol.
wary spire
They ended up being too souless.
wary spire
The second one cut out new model's eyebrows but you get the gist.
They all became basically the same face.
wary spire
That's my goblin from 2018
wary spire
Wdym I'm currently also look nice! 8T
jolly sierra
yeah i never said the change was bad lol
waxen meteor
Man your char gotta look good
jolly sierra
i recalled playing male BE until early legion and then another male BE started flirting w me
and i was like wtf
waxen meteor
Or you lose eager to log in
jolly sierra
so i went fem panda
waxen meteor
I was so annoyed by my green male orc hunter look
jolly sierra
the stereotype is strong in BEs
waxen meteor
That I stopped logging in that char
jolly sierra
oof
jolly sierra
did the same w my orc monk cuz i wanted to be upright
wary spire
Female orc is bis in plate.
jolly sierra
my panda does a spin w envenoms
and then does something like an open cross when she finish
waxen meteor
I only miss /dance on mUndead pretty much.
Well I think male undead casting is also cool
wary spire
I like panda's landing animation.
waxen meteor
I want to change my mage to Kul tiran probably
Hopefully there’s a good model
I feel the stun is cool for mage
waxen meteor
I will check when next discount comes
quaint cedar
I love kul tiran
The stun is pretty nice for classes that don't have one already
I loved having haymaker on my disc priest
jolly sierra
haymaker is disgusting in both mugambala and blade edge
imagine doing a shiv and then yeet them away from second floor
nice
wary spire
Yep! Thankfully all our damage is not only from Kingsbane now.
jolly sierra
good shit
marble oasis
Hmm so question.
Deathmark damage increase is that purely the bleed or does the duplication get more. As the duplication was only 70% wasn’t it?
floral crest
Seems assas may be the move next season? Thinking as alt
marble oasis
Sub is looking silly strong.
Like a walking tank. And it’s now got dreadblades so that shadow blades is stonking.
exotic dove
Yeah Sub is going to be probably our best spec for PVP but Assa is looking like its going to be a decent secondary option that has a place in viability
especially with those buffs imo
waxen meteor
nice
Looks solid
Anyway if it’s still mastery > others for both specs then it’s easy for enjoy both specs
Just one dagger difference
halcyon timber
Shadow blades is an actual cd now, wouldn’t call it dreadblades as different effects come from the abilities. Eviscerate does 30% down from 50% on live mind you as well. But yeah very happy with how blades changed and glad we pitched the idea for that several times in “what if we could x”. The tier tuning changes just made it where our rupture isn’t taking over instead of throwing out eviscerates. It’s still ptr and likely to get changed anyway. Its 35% in pvp as well.
That being said, hopefully the developers touch tier sets instead of tuning us around them and leaving the core kit dooky.
stoic spruce
Shadowblades is dreadblades without the self dam
halcyon timber
Understood what you’re comparing it to but it is not 1:1 the same.
surreal barn
It’s longer lol
halcyon timber
Fills cb pts got it understood but still not the exact same thing
Outlaw def needs to rise up though, not sure how to help them / support them etc
quaint cedar
New shadow blades is better than Dreadblades was in every way possible
tawny kestrel
New shadow blades is better than Dreadblades was in every way possible
new? isnt it just how it used to be in mop
but slightly worse
tawny kestrel
definitely a nice change tho
shadow blades has been a joke of a cd for multiple xpacs now
halcyon timber
Yep
quaint cedar
Yeah it needed changes
Sad that Dreadblades just got yeeted though instead of making it better
And sub getting a way better dreadblades just rubs it in even more lol
halcyon timber
Used to give a damage amp in legion no?
quaint cedar
Yeah pretty sure
halcyon timber
Unsure why specifically it was removed
quaint cedar
No idea
halcyon timber
Makes sense my man
stoic spruce
Somehow db was degen gameplay
quaint cedar
I do think db on CDR was a bit degen
But that's why I think it should have been changed instead of removed
I would have liked to see it get taken off CDR and be made much stronger
Maybe make it a 1 min CD flat to synergize with dance or something
halcyon timber
Dang
quaint cedar
I don't believe devs give a damn about outlaw in pvp at all
With that said I think KS is fine already
It seems to be tuned just right on ptr
Not too high, not too low
But HO proc chance? I'm sure they are aware of the issue. Who knows if anything will be done
And same with armor pen
Realz did confirm he was aware of it being a concern, but he did not say anything would change. Just a wait and see
So not a promise that it will be addressed
stoic spruce
A pvp talent would be fine because we don't need armor pen into cloth and leather
quaint cedar
Yeah but I'd be salty
stoic spruce
Same
stoic spruce
Not at all
quaint cedar
We're already down 1 pvp talent compared to sin and sub
stoic spruce
But it's the blizzard way
quaint cedar
So just makes us even less flexible with pvp talents
surreal barn
Being salty goes with the outlaw aesthetic
quaint cedar
Agreed though sounds like a blizzard change for sure
stoic spruce
Nah. Someone didn't read the whole application before applying because it says you have to know the theme of the classes/specs.
quaint cedar
Well I must be great at outlaw then because I've been salty since DF launch lol
surreal barn
I think we’ll see a lot more outlaw next season either way
stoic spruce
Yeah for sure
surreal barn
Was way more fun on ptr than current
quaint cedar
Agreed
stoic spruce
First ptr build was bis outlaw
quaint cedar
It's definitely an improvement gameplay wise over live
surreal barn
That’s been part of the issue is not as many playing it = smaller voice
quaint cedar
I'll be so sad though if it ends up being weaker in pvp than now
Yeah very true
That's why I try to provide as much feedback as I can
stoic spruce
Yall ready to fight people with over a million health?
queen geyser
Me seeing the Outlaw changes
surreal barn
LOL. Stat squish inc
quaint cedar
lol
quaint cedar
Warrs are going to give 3% stam with battle shout now
stoic spruce
Oh boy
quaint cedar
And I think aug has a stam buff too
stoic spruce
Aug tsg?
halcyon timber
Lord
stoic spruce
Nah unholy looking poopy
quaint cedar
I wonder how high the HP could go if you stack everything in a BG or something
10% + 4% (I think that's aug's?) + 3% from warr + 15% outlaw stam
And just go full tank mode lol
pale storm
Warriors smh
quaint cedar
Dude I spent the last 2 days healing for dumbasses that don't press defensives in shuffle
I believe it
Even 2300+ hunters will die without pressing turtle
While you sit CC
And then yell heals
stoic spruce
I wonder if we get out damaged by prot warr again for half a season
quaint cedar
If we keep getting nerfed every week then I bet we will
jolly sierra
some days ago i've seen a bear in like 1k9 CR
dunno how tf he reached it
but ended like shit
waxen meteor
It seems only DH tank is putting in lobby as DPS
Other tanks always show up as a pair?
stoic spruce
Wdym?
tawny kestrel
It seems only DH tank is putting in lobby as DPS
all tanks except prot pala take up a dps spot
jolly sierra
fkn protadins
worthy crag
had one lobby with a brewmaster, was so annoying
like dragon's breath every 15 seconds and makes my hits miss
untold remnant
Stuff like that and searing glare are so good haha
long shore
had one lobby with a brewmaster, was so annoying
Was his name Robbo by any chance? Some aids guy who only plays brewmaster
worthy crag
nah it was something else
Out of all the tank specs brewmaster seems like it contributes most to the team tbh
Technically prot does more but they are counted as healers and they are the most useless compared to helaer specs so..
tall marsh
I just fought blood dk, its doing 70k dps and shield entire team with gods shilds
I never felt so misarable, 2200 mmr
wary spire
all tanks except prot pala take up a dps spot
Paladin privilege. 
tender ferry
Reee why is sub rupture so much better than assa rupture
Sub gonna be the true dot class in 10.2 with sepsis and Dark Brew
waxen meteor
Well isn’t sub rupture better than sin today? Obviously if you pick the talent that way
waxen meteor
I like something like this, for instance:
https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/talent-c...
Was reading patch note for 10.2, and thought about our talent. Is sudden demise good? I mean the sudden death part, does it get triggered often or once 100 games? The 10% bleed dmg is also super good but since you are picking dance, the passive aoe bleed can be a better talent too? (Assuming the 10 yards aoe garrote and rupture works under dance as well)