pvp

[halcyon timber]

New PvP talents yeah?

Yes sir

Or changes to them

Warr def needs to be able to connect easier w mages for sure

Id be down for gag order being back to help that

[stoic spruce]

well no new pvp talents or changes yet unfortunately BUT, in PvE, theres a damage redistribution and one talent that gives Unholy 20% haste (10% in pvp) no gives unholy a flat 20% damage increase. (which will also probably be nerfed by 50%)

[halcyon timber]

Jeeze man

No double spell reflect?

[stoic spruce]

oh I was talking unholy

yeah warr gets double spell reflect

oh

and a sick talent that makes your shouts do different things

[halcyon timber]

That’s slick at least

Oh sick? Like what ?

[stoic spruce]

one sec

its really intuitive

[halcyon timber]

You can modify them like stance dance?

[stoic spruce]

this one too

[halcyon timber]

Oh dang, tigers lust pretty much, that is cool

BC an altered / upgrading existing talent or “new” thing entirely?

[stoic spruce]

new

[halcyon timber]

That’s pretty creative

Piercing howl root will be filthy

[stoic spruce]

good thing im playing my rogue because my dk will probably get melted lmao

[halcyon timber]

What else changed on Dk?

[stoic spruce]

nothing

[halcyon timber]

Hmm what’s something they would like ?

Or how to balance their kit to not be as reliant on x?

[stoic spruce]

unnerfed deasthstrike and anti-magic shell

its literally so simple

but blizz refuses to do so

[halcyon timber]

What was the rationale for nerfing it to begin with?

Any statements on that previously?

DS is like 7% max life but nerfed or something atm ?

Esp with casters getting more tools dunno why it would be a “big deal” to unnerf dk defense

[stoic spruce]

yes. before season 1 started, DK was hard to kill and slappy hands pulled more than once and it pissed off a developer. So EVERYTHING was nerfed except Icebound Fortitude in terms of defensives. And there was no counter play to Abom Limb in BGs so they nuked that too.

[halcyon timber]

Yeah limb was nuts

[stoic spruce]

now even more stuff is nerfed

with no justification

[halcyon timber]

Uncool man

[stoic spruce]

Frost gets nerfed everytime blizz nerfs unholy

[halcyon timber]

How? That’s lame af

[stoic spruce]

get this

Unholy used Empower Rune Weapon which granted resources and haste right?

[halcyon timber]

Yep

Well i assume yea, I don’t do anything else

Ill take your experience for truth

[stoic spruce]

now, that ability is in the class tree so every spec can use it. HOWEVER, with unholys damage redistribution, they nerfed it (by 50% shocker I know) and it effected Frost. Same with soul reaper nerf (idk why they did that).

[halcyon timber]

Howwww ? That makes zero sense to do so

No amp for frost?

[stoic spruce]

Someone said playing DK feels like being Blizzards punching bad and I agree. I finally got tired of it and now I main main Outlaw

[halcyon timber]

Dk should be hard to kill like the old days. That’s the point of being a dk no?

[stoic spruce]

they have their own stuff but blizz is just super unfair to dks

[halcyon timber]

A slow moving doom bringing joker

That’s seriously jacked up

Where’s dks sanctified plates = to ret then?

[stoic spruce]

Frost DK got nerfed because of the Dev/Fdk comp when the Dev was doing most of the damage.

[halcyon timber]

Sounds like a familiar story

[stoic spruce]

"effective in the right situations"

I showed you that didnt I?

[halcyon timber]

Yet dev gets buffs this tuesday on live

[stoic spruce]

:)

[halcyon timber]

Ranged class propaganda works it seems

[stoic spruce]

when people ask about DK in PvP I tell them the truth.

it genuinely feels like they disrespect you

[halcyon timber]

That’s all that should be said

[stoic spruce]

because every other class seems to be balanced as "playing as X class" but DKs are balanced as "playing against a DK"

if that makes sense

[halcyon timber]

Yeah it does a lot

Thoughts on fdk set for ssn3?

[stoic spruce]

its pretty fun

it hits a lot but doesnt do too insane damage

in raid it seems to be middle of the pack

[halcyon timber]

That’s solid then

Don’t Create an unnatural dependency

X class is only good bc of x ability is terrible

[quaint cedar]

Any time I feel bad about the way outlaw has been treated this expansion I just remember FDK exists and then I feel a tiny bit better

Just a tiny bit

[stoic spruce]

so true

[halcyon timber]

Free our boy frosty

Seriously

[quaint cedar]

I'd rather fight FDK than UDK

[stoic spruce]

I know as rogues we hate Raise Abomination but that was the final straw for me when they removed him lol

[halcyon timber]

All day

[stoic spruce]

same

[halcyon timber]

Abomb is now army right?

[stoic spruce]

yeah

[quaint cedar]

Yeah and frost just gets nerfed constantly because of unholy

[halcyon timber]

They slap at least?

Abomb had the meat hook and diseases or something? Can’t remember

[quaint cedar]

I guess at least you don't lose a pvp talent slot now

[stoic spruce]

yeah but its so boring because your CDs are so nerfed you cant really tell a difference

[halcyon timber]

Inb4 nerfing dks to buff locks

Really seems how tuning goes

[quaint cedar]

ngl I'm not a huge fan of how blizzard has been nerfing every burst CD and buffing sustain. That's great for some specs, but doing it across the board just homegenizes everything

I liked it better when there were varied damage profiles

[stoic spruce]

I really wish Blizz would slightly nerf wounds so they can unnerf some CDs

[halcyon timber]

It’s because people don’t trade and they take shuffle as an absolute it seems

[quaint cedar]

yeah, pretty sure it's all based around shuffle balancing

[halcyon timber]

I dIeD iNsTanTlY tO a DK

(Ignored evoker) the whole match

[quaint cedar]

I mean, don't get me wrong, I like dealing sustained damage. That's why I play outlaw (one of many reasons really). But when everything is sustained it gets dull

Plus it makes outlaw not special anymore

[halcyon timber]

Healer impressions influence things a lot too

[quaint cedar]

Back in SL, everything was BIG BOORST, and outlaw was one of the few exceptions, so it stood out

Now everyone is sustain so who cares right?

And then to make things even more frustrating

[halcyon timber]

Dampening is prob to blame too

[quaint cedar]

All these "sustain" specs that blizzard created got to keep some kind of burst

Meanwhile, outlaw was always sustained damage, but somehow does less than these specs, and continues to have 0 burst

At least 10.2 fixes that

[halcyon timber]

10.2 hype seriously

[quaint cedar]

IF it goes live that way lol

[halcyon timber]

It needs to

Options are good

Restrictions aren’t

[quaint cedar]

Yeah

[halcyon timber]

Its like trying to carve meat with a spoon

Makes zero sense

[quaint cedar]

Honestly my biggest complaint about 10.2 for outlaw is the loss of FW

It's pretty noticeable and feels bad

I've already posted about it in the feedback thread

[halcyon timber]

The brawler suggestion was good

[quaint cedar]

And a few others have commented too so hopefully that gets some attention

Yeah I love that idea

Enduring Brawler used to give us 1% stam per stack, but that got moved into the combat stamina talent

[halcyon timber]

Would mimic old mace specialization talent combat had 15% armor pen for 5 points

[quaint cedar]

So throwing in FW stacks into Enduring would be nice

gotcha, yeah that's cool

Also

[halcyon timber]

Yeah combat had armor pen and other cool toys

Like kick silence for 2sec

[quaint cedar]

Would really help incentize outlaw to stay in the fight which keeps us from being too cheesy with crackshot

Seems like a perfect solution to me

[halcyon timber]

Really don’t see how the EB request would be unreasonable

[quaint cedar]

Yeah. It would be exactly the same as what we had before. 30% FW, with a 45 sec ramp up

And it doesn't require ambush, so the people who hate stealth abilities on outlaw can be happy too

[halcyon timber]

Especially with higher health and druids getting more armor so to speak and shields will be larger for sissy pajama classes etc

[quaint cedar]

Yeah absorb shields seemed pretty nuts on ptr

[halcyon timber]

Mages locks

Aug

[quaint cedar]

I guess because they are HP percentage based and HP is so damn high now

[halcyon timber]

Im all for giving people cool shit, just not gimping classes to elevate others

Yep shields are % based

Might see mages run 70% dr block instead of actual block now

Ice wall also gets a buff due to scaling hp

[quaint cedar]

Nah I think immunity block is too strong for that

I'm no mage player though

[halcyon timber]

In a pair of exceptional hands

Arcane mage maybe

Druids are going to be a sleeper

Regen is higher, bear form may outscale tank hp

The UA buffs on live are def controversial

I wonder if in theory, a shaman could grounding totem + dispel and get away with that and Counter strike totem to redirect damage again back to the lock (set up)

Priest seems to be very iffy on fade + dispel

Holy paladin i have no idea how they deal with it besides DS like a goon.

Evoker no idea either

Monk can immune it 2x i believe (restoral or something) and healing orbs

[quaint cedar]

I don't understand why blizz keeps buffing aff lock dispel backlash

Eventually they are going to buff it so high that it just kills the dispeller

[thick dagger]

Pretty sure counterstrike doesn’t apply to magic just physical

For example can counterstrike a H priest stun cus it’s physical not magical dmg

[quaint cedar]

Tooltip for it says direct damage

So I think it can work on spell damage but it still wouldn't work for dispel backlash damage

[thick dagger]

Gotta try it and let us know

[thick slate]

if i rupture a warr and he uses ignore pain, does he still get second wind ?

due to absorbing the dmg

[halcyon timber]

It “should” be stopped but (IP) shield might protect it.

[thick slate]

thats what i wanna know xd

[halcyon timber]

I think it does usually as second wind is only when not taking damage and out of combat for 6 sec i think

Worst case scenario sap if you notice it working / shrug . All “depends” though

Yeah 12 sec duration on IP prob won’t be that big of a deal. Can always just chuck knives at him and be prepared to react if needed

[thick slate]

noted, thanks bud

[halcyon timber]

No sweat man, kinda case by case basis

[spring bough]

taking a pvp break leveling my guardian druid and this thing is so OP in dungeons lol. 1 min que max and trash/raze all day and its a GG lol

[jolly sierra]

while u don't bring him to shuffle its ok

[spring bough]

oh hes going into shuffle LOL

[proven kayak]

Is assa doing a lot of dmg in solo shuffle or it’s my imagination I constant out dmg most of the classes

[jolly sierra]

bruh

[jolly sierra]

in live it does decent damage

even if people denies it

[proven kayak]

Idk man I just swapped from sub for fun and realised I do enormous damage also playing 4set

[jolly sierra]

4set helps a lot too

also consider the last free buff

[proven kayak]

Tbf kill pressure it’s meh

[queen geyser]

Boys, may I present: Your average solo que RBGs team

[jolly sierra]

5% more dmg to all abilities and +5% more melee dmg

yeah its meh

u just to ur rogue job cceing to success anyways

[proven kayak]

Seems like also easier to play below 2.2k without ppl messing your drs

[halcyon timber]

The end descriptions xD

[proven kayak]

warrior must be the most braindead class

[jolly sierra]

WHAT THE HECK GOT 5K GOLD FROM A WQ

[halcyon timber]

To pay for your transfer to na

[halcyon timber]

Dh says bonjour

[jolly sierra]

noooooooooo

[halcyon timber]

😦

[peak agate]

Hello Rogue Fam. Any tease changes today?

[uneven grove]

hahaha i can't

[halcyon timber]

Nope, we will hear word sooner than later though. Definitely trying to reign back in the post that keeps getting sabotaged by nonsense though.

[potent pivot]

i'm deleting that just in case

seems TOS

[halcyon timber]

If it seems it is, it prob is. Good call man just incase.

[dull ocean]

Hey I came back to game not long ago and started leveling characters to 70. So far I have 4 classes to 70 and just finished my rogue and thought well I got a class I enjoy pvp on now. My question. How big of a diff this expansion does the gear make? Like previous expansions it’s make or break the experience. Do I need to slog through bgs before I start rated content or would AH greens be fine to start. I know coming in this late into a season I’ll prolly have a bad time regardless till I get a lot of gear but just had to ask

[halcyon timber]

Welcome back first of all.
You’re going to need to gear as always but it is quite easy to catch up compared to the old days.

• crafting gear can be custom made to be boosted to full item level in pvp
• scalewarden gear (open world gear) can be upgraded with a trophy (item currency) to be slightly less than full conquest gear but still does the job
• honor gear is starter stuff but is good enough to simply get started.
• tier sets can also be converted from pvp conquest gear as well.

Have fun most of all is #1.

We are in an in-between time for a major update to rogue talents in the coming patch so a lot will change between then as well. (Any where between Oct- Nov for reference. Depends on ptr atm)

[dull ocean]

Ah nice. On crafted gear. Is that like greens on AH? Or should I make it all myself

And by full ilvl is it as good as conquest?

Or conquest still the best

[halcyon timber]

Seek out info on wowhead about the “work order” system if you cannot craft what you are seeking.

[dull ocean]

Because I do have a decent bit of gold. I could boost my crafts if that’s all it takes

[halcyon timber]

Yes the crafted gear if equipped with the crafting component will make it max level in pvp regardless of pve item level

[dull ocean]

So it’s just as good as conquest?

[halcyon timber]

The item can be purchased with conquest at the arena vendor

Yep just as good

[dull ocean]

Ah nice. How much conquest do you need to make the crafted gear

[halcyon timber]

And you can customize stats and other stuff on it “embelishments” for additional minor effects

[dull ocean]

That’s really cool

[halcyon timber]

Off the top of my head i think 700

[dull ocean]

Per piece?

Because then it’s about same price as buying conquest gear lol

[halcyon timber]

Yes maybe more as there are two badges . 1 for major pieces and 1 for minor

Yep there are advantages and disadvantages and it is solely up to you on how you want to gear

Ex: conquest may not have a stat you would like, so you can custom craft a piece to meet what you do want

[dull ocean]

Alrighty sounds good. Thank you! I got my mage, windwalker, survival hunter, and now sub rogue to level cap .I might would get my DH up or druid as well soon but I’m a bit tired of leveling for the moment haha.
Also it seems like gearing in this expansion might be pretty fast

[halcyon timber]

Yes it will man, have fun and come on back and talk with the boys if you have further questions.

[dull ocean]

Aight sounds good. Also

How is rogue doing currently?

Pretty solid? Like I know it usually is but never know

[halcyon timber]

Doing fine, just needs coordination is all

Quick reflexes and smart thinking

[dull ocean]

Is it pretty good in the new solo shuffle mode?

[halcyon timber]

Can be, just depends on a lot of conditions honestly

[dull ocean]

Or would I have been better off giving mage or monk or hunter a shot for that mode haha

[halcyon timber]

Stun drs, positioning and timing

[dull ocean]

I can always just do rogue for 2s and 3s and something else in solo

[halcyon timber]

Yep

[dull ocean]

But that means I’d have to gear one of my other 3 stooges haha

On top of my rogue

[waxen meteor]

Basically the same as conquer gear

Diff by position

[halcyon timber]

Yep always gearing something, that’s the good part about progression.

[waxen meteor]

Basically you spend some additional gold to get more mastery

It’s especially good for rings

Because more mastery from gear and more importantly you don’t need to wait for weeks for gem

[halcyon timber]

Rings are nice indeed as the crafted pieces are evened out in stats with an even distribution.

Well all crafted is but yep

[waxen meteor]

All my alt went for crafted rings, don’t wait for 2 additional weeks for gem

Especially at this stage of the season

[waxen meteor]

Oh I never paid attention to waist and belt, that come with gem spot too?

I remember head doesn’t

[waxen meteor]

For sub, it’s not easy in sub 2100 range, but much better higher. Also it depends on the lobby, when there are casters, you could dominate the game a lot easier; when it’s pure zug zug melee lobby that’s super hard

For sin, I think it’s overall okay now after dmg buffs. at lower range since we have alright dmg now, survival is still a concern but sub 2100 games are sort of okay

[halcyon timber]

Gem sockets from vault i believe only (6 currency thingy to get the sculptor for ssn 2). I have zero idea if they are going to for ssn 3

[sharp sierra]

Hello sexy people

Just a curious question

Would u run 4 piece for assas over two crafted pieces for more mast

[potent pivot]

iirc most people aren't running it

it's decent, but most people don't want to deal with breaking stealth

if you can deal with that, then run it

[sharp sierra]

Tyyyy think ill just run full mast thankyou again xx

[solid wharf]

any tips for dealing with enhance shaman? i feel like i should be able to 1 shot them but they always double my damage and i cant finish them fast enough

[minor cape]

you shouldnt be able to oneshot it pre defensives

ench shama is wheelchair, kite it's offensives and procs

and youll be fine

however it's a stupid class that might just randomly burst you out of thin air so dont get too tilted over that

🤪

[marsh sky]

guys I have a question
on murloc io, why does it show everyone only having 2pc tier set?
is this a typo?

[potent pivot]

nop

most people only use 2p as sub and go for more mastery rather than use 4p

[marsh sky]

is this the same on other classes as well?

also 40% crit damage not good on evis? doesn't that off set the 5% mastery you get or whatever

[potent pivot]

not for all no, it varies between every spec in the game

and no not really

[marsh sky]

so murloc io and drustvar is accurate in gear listing?

also thanks for the info

[potent pivot]

it's also only 20% in pvp

basically every set is nerfed by 50% in pvp

[potent pivot]

yeah, there's only small inaccuracies because it's based on whatever people logged out wearing, but that's only going to affect a couple of the people's gear/spec on avg

most people just log out wearing whatever they were wearing in the spec they were last using so it's over all pretty accurate

[marsh sky]

ah interesting thanks a lot

[uneven grove]

it is just an ingame macro tho, just blizz out of touch for years again probably

[sturdy canopy]

My brother in Christ if I get another solo shuffle lobby that's all warriors and rets I will off myself

[stoic spruce]

You promise?

[pale storm]

Has anyone checked the verdant gladiator tabard on the ptr?

[waxen meteor]

It’s good but as mentioned tier set in pvp is 50% effect but also, overall our crit chance is not very high

It’s 20% crit dmg on evis but we don’t get so many crit on evis

Especially you may use cold blood for ST

[surreal barn]

It look good?

[pale storm]

I haven't seen it, asking if anyone has, I want to see it 🙂

[surreal barn]

Ah gotcha. I’ve seen what may be the enchant, didn’t look as good as I had hoped. Maybe it isn’t the 2.1k one

[pale storm]

Yeah, the green particle one?

[surreal barn]

Yeah man I think I’ll still rock this seasons lol

So on the ptr have you tested out the non-shadowblades opener yet? I can’t make it feel fluid like this season

Feels clunky and kinda bad

[halcyon timber]

Id say things have been clunky ever since cs was nerfed for 1 cb pt for rogues

Fd is fine and ShT is definitely far better

[surreal barn]

The shadow techniques hasn’t helped me when I’m trying to run away outside of cds. The ShT is better than before though.

Currently in live - every time I have dance I feel like a killing machine.

[nova viper]

Suuuup boyz? Any massive gains in pvp?

[solid wharf]

i played rogue for the first time since BFA and hit 1400 if that counts 🤣

[halcyon timber]

Live is gimpy tier set making us think we have cb pts though

[surreal barn]

It isn’t just that

It’s taking 5CP from rotten as well

[halcyon timber]

Yes

And it was changed but the change is fine

[surreal barn]

For you

Not for me 😂

[halcyon timber]

10 cb pts that does no damage to fuel a shoddy evisc isnt healthy

Shadow techniques improvement on ptr is solid

Fd is still solid on ptr too

The kids upstairs said we have too many cb pts so that’s why it changed

Blades being an actual good cd is more than welcome too

[surreal barn]

Backstab still feels like a wet noodle

[halcyon timber]

Thanks to kids upstairs

Literally all them

[surreal barn]

I do like the blades change but I think it needs to be shorter now

[halcyon timber]

Can’t as long as bargain exists

Because nowcwe are going to be tuned around TB

Dust (prep in disguise with far more trade) is accessible to a lot of builds now too

Dust is a cool compromise but yeah

Sht banking allows for more planning too which is nice

[surreal barn]

Eh. Have you actually tested shadow techniques in bgs yet

The new one

[halcyon timber]

Yea its requiring us to plan more and is still good as shadow blades doesn’t consume it so you just store more

And can continue smacking stuff

[surreal barn]

We don’t smack stuff when they are able to smack us generally

[halcyon timber]

Much happier w ptr than live honesty. Realz said we will get tuning later but function and getting bugs solved the focus atm

Right but /shrug rogues are opportunistic by nature

I hear what you’re saying yeah

[surreal barn]

What I’m saying is it actually take a long while for those combo points to build up

Planning is one thing and the new perforated veins will be part of that

[halcyon timber]

Yeah new pv is nice

Still like lingering for non noodle stabbing though

Pve kids be damned

Sepsis does a lot now w pv only

And goremaws also helps flow and planning as well / alleviate things and makes us non reliant on secret technique nonsense

[surreal barn]

It isn’t bad in pvp when you stack your modifiers but isn’t worth since it is easily dispellable

[halcyon timber]

Agreed

Always a down side to things naturally though

I prefer inevitably all day though

[surreal barn]

I feel like the free finishers don’t help me at all like they did when goremaws first came out

[halcyon timber]

Because energy sucked in legion

[surreal barn]

I have plenty of energy without goremaws help

And you are gimping yourself if you use it outside of blades

[halcyon timber]

You can yeah but we can sit all day discussing and it will never be perfect anyway

Pve kids wanted slower and we paid the price due to that but more overall flexibility also came from this too .

Still a net gain shifting. Shadwocraft is great but is also optional

Also really like mfd supplementing our stuff

[surreal barn]

I haven’t found shadow craft useful in pvp yet

Seems more pve

[halcyon timber]

I dig it a lot. Would rather have cbs stored and ready to fire off again which it serves to do

A lot will come down to tuning though and it was noted that subtlety is having a close eye on it

[surreal barn]

When has sub ever been the warrior that stays on the target for so long to build that up though

[halcyon timber]

Cata when sv was solid id argue to an extent

Just maintained hemo / rupture/ garrote and did full damage

But that will never come back

Dance being 8 sec is nice and there’s still lots of stuff to close the gap in different ways now though so /shrug

Tier set 2pc (while random) does add a lot of value from evisc and rupture at least

4set we trade too much stats wise but the extra cp gen is slick but probably only pve atm

[nova viper]

Any addon (no plater pls) show debuff's like this?

[halcyon timber]

Elv ui or tidy plates

[nova viper]

i dont like elv

bcs its change all ui

i want only debuff

[halcyon timber]

Can disable all that but understood

Not sure outside if tidy / or threat plates

[nova viper]

i know its wierd, but i like blizzard style xD

[halcyon timber]

Not weird at all man, you like what you like

Nothing wrong with that at all

[potent pivot]

this screenshot is Plater as far as i can tell. KUI nameplates is somewhat similar

[opal bone]

nameplate auras addon

[surreal barn]

I know you said no plater but I found a mod that turns player into looking just like blizzard plates 😂 it’s what I use

I switched to it during the hunter feign death nameplate bug

[zealous nebula]

Yo guys, wanna try sub in shuffles, can you please suggest an easiest build to get started since its plenty of them on ladder (rotten+danse+gloom, rotten+danse, danse+dark brew etc)

[minor cape]

rotten+danse+sectech easiest

danse+brew+sectech too

no sectech builds are weaker

[thick slate]

this is my first season playing rogue and ive found rotten + danse + Sectech to be the best one, it was an easy 1.8k

[zealous nebula]

Do we want to add backstab (instead of 1 shadowstrike probably) into shadow dance burst for danse macabre stack?

[left spoke]

Gonna queue up my rogue for the first time

For sub, is kyrian still the play?

[twin burrow]

no

murlok io

[jolly sierra]

glad we left shadowlands in last year to avoid crap like covenants

[minor cape]

no, never

unless you play gloomblade and you do 2 dances in a row

then you can proc rotten and perfo with gloomblade, it's more dam than sstrike

otherwise you loose more damage than you gain from stack

[languid ravine]

I m offline for one week and completely forgot how to play the game, even DH is too complicated for me

[surreal barn]

Good time to kick bad habits then lol

[nova viper]

+1

sexooooooooooooo

[wintry dew]

Sequixo

[jolly sierra]

SEXOOOOOO

[rare vector]

how is assa and outlaw on ptr?

[dull ocean]

How is double rogue for 2v2

[halcyon timber]

120000% eff all that nonsense

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/us/automation-auto-kick-auto-grounding-ai-vs-rated-pvp-1672291

Good, this nonsense is getting looked at.

What our esteemed Pajcsi was elaborating about the other day

Waiting on further tuning, nonone knows for sure but the boys did all test the other day .

[jolly sierra]

dude i hate precog and bot kicking

[dull ocean]

Anyone got input on how double rogue is for 2s?

[lofty panther]

There will just be some other script that does it and completely fails to address the increased use of AHK

I finally checked out GSE and some of the AHK scripts after Venrukis vid and it’s wild what can be done

Like I was always turned off from sub cause of the complicated opener and it’s like “oh there’s a one button legal macro for this I’m an idiot”

[spring bough]

Almost got my guardian geared up and ready for solo 💀

Can’t wait to start queuing and have people hating me 😂

[waxen meteor]

probably do two seperate 1on1s

[languid ravine]

queue 40 min for 1 min of shuffle, good old times

just like disneyland

[jolly sierra]

god why

[languid ravine]

I've just recently faced off against good Sub players (rare breed), and it just confirmed my theory that Sub makes the game worse for EVERYONE, allies? enemies? even the Rogue player too

[halcyon timber]

That crud is uncool man.

[halcyon timber]

Faster queue at dmv

[spring bough]

Saw one crushing it the other day and it was like his health never moved 😂. Fun to tank instances as well lol

[jolly sierra]

wait for dampening

XD

[halcyon timber]

Yeah friggin tanks just mosh pit and do 50k an entire match while also ccing the living ish out of people

[jolly sierra]

we managed to kill the bear in some matches

but with dampening to avoid his self sustain nonsense

else just ignored him

[uneven grove]

yeah, it's good people picked this up, otherwise blizz wouldn't step imho

[halcyon timber]

Have to release it to the gremlins and get them to use it. So they are forced to fix it.

[uneven grove]

pretty much

[halcyon timber]

Or ya know, stop making dumb stuff

“Creative use” my foot, stop putting dumb ish in the game.

[uneven grove]

god knows how long was this in the game

[spring bough]

I’ma just mosh pit raze spam and cyclone the hell out of everyone 😂

[halcyon timber]

First heard about trash like that when i came back in legion

[lofty panther]

Yeah and this way him and most of the r1 community can go back to use less easily accessible tools to accomplish the same thing while gatekeeping everyone else

[halcyon timber]

Don’t remember anything crazy back in mop though

[lofty panther]

I agree it needs to be fixed but something else will just pop up

[halcyon timber]

Then they fix that too

They can traxk how many key presses and all the blah blah log data

Track

[uneven grove]

tbh this is sad, i would ban addons and WAs from pvp too, it is just so sad watching old warcraftmovies like Reckful where he fcking counted all the DRs in head, and now everything shining, popping, screaming at us to do this do that

[halcyon timber]

People need to be better

[lofty panther]

This is the only answer

[halcyon timber]

If blizz made their own weak auras im down

[uneven grove]

skill gap would be so much higher in the game without all the shit

[halcyon timber]

I like my own weak auras for my shit i want to track

[jolly sierra]

i usually use MFD CD as reference for DR

[halcyon timber]

Only ultimate bums track other people’s stuff

[uneven grove]

yeah probably never happens unless they address cooldown stacking and 20+ debuffs in a 3v3 match

you can't see shit with your own eyes

[halcyon timber]

Yeah

We aint going back to the old days

[lofty panther]

Even the M raiding scene is full of people using GSE to do their rotation so they can focus on mechanics

[jolly sierra]

but addons for DRs are decent now with SS

[uneven grove]

too many random proc

[jolly sierra]

cuz ppl just random throws CCs

everywhere

[halcyon timber]

Blizzy just seriously needs to buy those devs out

Shit like in house WA and dr trackers would be all I honestly want

[lofty panther]

Yeah just DR trackers and an icon for major CDs popped like plater

[halcyon timber]

I like addons, but people abuse shit

[lofty panther]

But yeah blizzard fixing ingame macros will just make it so the r1 community goes back to using obscure tools they keep in a close knit circle to facilitate win trading and boosting since it’s a huge money maker IRL for them

[halcyon timber]

Its scuffed tf up man

[lofty panther]

I just play BGs nowadays, most fun pvp mode

[jolly sierra]

i rlly loved how blizz has their interfaces for AWC

would like to have something like that

[lofty panther]

Insane that people will play hundreds of dollars for glad

[halcyon timber]

Scum

Earn stuff

[lofty panther]

Or even a few hundred for like 1800 lol

[halcyon timber]

Community needs to be better

[lofty panther]

Community is definitely at fault but it’s like that I’m any competitive endeavor

[halcyon timber]

And those fart boxes need to “influence “ it

Yeah ffxiv was that big time and gw2

[lofty panther]

Like every major sports league is roided to hell nowadays

[halcyon timber]

Same time, catch someone w their pants down while they are doing their cheese and its done

1 quick cc and its over . Thing is being fast to do it and people only get that kind of eye sight and crispyness by playing more

They do need to stop bending the knee making people “good at everything “ though. Classes need weaknesses and such. The cc nerfs only make a rogues job harder

[lofty panther]

Yeah every class has way too much mobility now too

[halcyon timber]

Mobility is fine but people need tools to work around it too

Shouldn’t be “outplaying” after the 15th bop / roar sac / iceblock etc during a 3 second botched window to be stunned by an axe toss as an example

Very exaggerated mind you but it still stands

[lofty panther]

I think blizz has the right idea with rated solo bg

[halcyon timber]

Mobility creep and such is a deal though . I dig. I don’t envy the devs who have to hear about it a lot too.

I do too

Master yourself

[lofty panther]

Yeah much less scripted and more forgiving of mistakes

[halcyon timber]

Inb4 hunter hijackers blow up our forums again

[lofty panther]

Hoping blizz abandons arena altogether, it’s beyond antiquated and ripe with abuse

[halcyon timber]

@uneven grove any new testing or discoveries this week so far btw man?

[halcyon timber]

Im def behind that at this point

[lofty panther]

We are biased though since rogues will be the stars of solo rbgs lol

[halcyon timber]

Some classes have a lotta stuff which is good but some classes like priests get pounded due to lack of stuff

Someone who anticipates it and is sharp will be a pain for a rogue regardless

Im cool w shadowsight and such . 1 less argument why they trinket silly stuff like sap

[lofty panther]

They might need to change 4 sec cap time too, keep its 6 or 5

[halcyon timber]

People also should be sitting in teams and stop being proud

Yeah don’t do us a favor keep it at 6

[uneven grove]

nah i didn't play any wow since games with the blues, i am just waiting for new infoes

[halcyon timber]

I don’t want to hear about it , keep it at 6

Druid has more cc yet they seldom catch heat for it

[halcyon timber]

I dig, all ive heard so far is nonsense ST is getting compensated for the bug fixes (leave that junk in the bin imo)

A new build should be coming though soon and tuning should be our way too

Last i read, its mostly bug fixes and making sure stuff works atm

[shadow creek]

I haven’t done arena in years. I can’t stand it. Objective-based PvP is much more fun for me and feels more like what PvP should be.

[halcyon timber]

Maybe new build this week? Who knows but we are ready to test.

Any things you guys are looking for concerning polishing / emphasis on talents and such?

[shadow creek]

Outlaw is really missing some armor pen in PvP; the suggestion on the test forum to add 2% per stack to Brawler is a great idea, would like to test that

Would like to see what SnD being taken off the GCD feels like

[halcyon timber]

yeah the armor pen was a good idea but the nerds say tHeY cAn JuSt BufF uS iNstEaD oF tHat

would match up with old combat with their 15% they ahd back in the day

was maces if I remember right, it's been years

[shadow creek]

Unpopular opinion, but would like to see Crackshot reworked to decouple it from stealth. Off the top of my head something like a % chance for BtE to proc Dispatch whenever the it fills combo points, or something…dunno

[halcyon timber]

I think avoiding chance based anything on rogue is good.

really dislike proc based stuff across the board

[shadow creek]

Oh man, I remember that in arena back then, it was so broken but so much fun

[dull ocean]

Lol ok so I’m off work so I’ll try my question again. Has anyone tried double rogue 2v2 and have any input on if it is decent in 2s. Like would it do 2.2k?

[halcyon timber]

heya neeko! been on and off all day in class. Haven't this expansion but you can climb as anything reasonably. You guys will just have to be really patient and really coordinated as any season goes. you get caught with your pants down as any double's team and you're in trouble.

[shadow creek]

Double rogue works really well as long as one you is not a rogue 🙂

[dull ocean]

Ah yea true. Maybe someone has tried it out tho. And sigh that’s not a answer Ken haha

[shadow creek]

Haha

[halcyon timber]

it can work, it's just a bit harder especially since CC nerfs so you'll really have to be clean w things

[dull ocean]

I understand rogue/mage or rogue/survival would do a lot better

[shadow creek]

Yeah DR on CC makes it challenging

[halcyon timber]

anything that can do it's own CC and doesn't die like a dumb dumb will work

[marble oasis]

bring back mace stun hemo spec

it's totally balance 🙂

[halcyon timber]

yeah we got the confirmation from the main man that none of that is cominng back ever

sucks but whatever

[shadow creek]

There would be literal riots, lol

That shit was soooo broken

[marble oasis]

it would be a sceptical xD

[halcyon timber]

mace stun was dumb but warriors did it too

[marble oasis]

just like arms warrior with stromherald just having to spam hamstring for 40 damage and autoattack people to death xD

[shadow creek]

Vanilla mace rogue was best rogue

[dull ocean]

I got ya lol. I was just curious cause 2x shadowy duel, 2 blinds, 2 gouge, and yea stuns will constantly be on DR. Haha

[halcyon timber]

yeah you say that till some ret bops at the right time and tab targets both of you

[shadow creek]

It can be done, you just have to have a good balance of cc to set up periods of burst

[halcyon timber]

yeah it will be really really tight on cc

[dull ocean]

Lol true.

[halcyon timber]

not going to have fun into any decent demonology warlocks either heh

[dull ocean]

I just think 2x shadowy duel would be pretty boss haha.

[halcyon timber]

if you want to do it then do it my man, no need for other's approval

as long as you're having a blast then spend your time however you want

[shadow creek]

I’ve run 2x SD this season as sub in RBGs and man it is fun

[marble oasis]

aoe shadowy duel with bubble cloak into aoe kidney

[dull ocean]

Yea I know. I just had to see if people thought it was ok or shit lol

[shadow creek]

You can pull a healer out of the teamfight for so long, it feels unfair

[halcyon timber]

a little common sense helps

shadow rift / infernal / incapacitator totem and that fun stops real quick

or a nice DB from a harry potter kid

[dull ocean]

Lol you think double rogue 2s would be able to get over 2.2k with good coordination or you think 2k range is best possibility

[halcyon timber]

honest answer is anything is possible truly

It's not wrath anymore so there's that

[dull ocean]

Yea but I haven’t done arenas this season so idk how oppressive it is to go double dps against healer/dps right now

[halcyon timber]

just need someone that doesn't DR your crap or creates windows and you can climb well. People who have poor awareness or aren't ready to act at all times aren't solid matches for us to team up with

being a rogue is a lot lke having adhd at times

[dull ocean]

Loll

I got ya

[halcyon timber]

as someone with adhd it feels true

[dull ocean]

ADHD or add

[jolly bear]

can someone explain to my small brain the sub changes in 10.2

[halcyon timber]

As far as what? Mechanically ?

[jolly bear]

how it affects us

also they nerfed the rotten to shit didnt they

[halcyon timber]

Tldr: Subtlety has shifted a little to less frequent dances and stronger burst depending on what you take with more options without the restrictions of 10.1.7 and below.

• shadowblades deals 25% damage as shadow to ALL abilities opposed to generators only (50%) and fills all combo points instead of the 1 goofy point.
• shadow techniques stores combo points and generates some energy, so you can store points and depending on how you save them —> you fill instantly instead of relying on nonsense procs.

• Rotten was changed yes but it was for the better instead of banking on that

[jolly bear]

do we choose how to use the stored ones or do they just get used as we get them playing normally cuz i didnt see an active spell to consume them at will

[halcyon timber]

Subtlety is smoother and less reliant on nonsense and doesn’t overcap on points

You choose when you want to spend them so if you store 4 your next backstab will generate 1+ the stored 4

[jolly bear]

so long story short this is better and a good thign

[halcyon timber]

Yes way smoother

[jolly bear]

but how do you store them and not spend them if youre spamming bs or ss

[halcyon timber]

You have to think strategically a little so it gets a small adjustment period to get used to

It won’t consume if you’re capped or using blades

[jolly bear]

and goremaw's is good right

[halcyon timber]

I love it as i asked a lot about it to comeback

Its subjective , you don’t “need it” though as you can use anything pretty much

Flag , sepsis feel solid too

[jolly bear]

so we have more actual build diversity

[halcyon timber]

Yea definitely

[jolly bear]

okay cool im lookin forward to it

[halcyon timber]

Just have to play around with what you like

[jolly bear]

does that make our current 2 set dog

[halcyon timber]

2 set should be disabled asap honestly

So we avoid cheese

New 2 set is good as well

4 set is good too just kinda trading a lot in pvp to make it work well. Haven’t spent enough time with it as i have exams this week

Class tree is also solid with lots of choices to make depending what is your poison so to speak

[jolly bear]

i think we gonna need vigor lowkey

but second SD too idk

ER seems dog still

really redundant with our new stuff

[halcyon timber]

Up to whoever finds a use for it . Im not a fan of ER type style

And that’s good because i can pick other stuff

[jolly bear]

i like less buttons lol we already got enough to press

only class that needs MORE to press is Frost dk

[halcyon timber]

Yeah , im a bread and butter kinda guy. I like stabbing a lot.

[sick wasp]

outside the dude reacting and the vid and all this tech exists for like 15 years

bans coming out as well

[potent pivot]

i know this is sort of a contentious topic atm, but let's try not to post things that outright show how to do the ToS stuff going around

i'd rather no one get banned for using something they happened to see while browsing here

[sick wasp]

roger

[potent pivot]

[languid ravine]

Afflocks are fucking scary dude

[sharp sierra]

Yeah my main caster has always been a lock when i feel like playing a caster which isn’t too often. But when i tried out aff lock for a day or 2 half the time i was just dotting everything and using procs when they came up and next thing you know “match won” and i was like oh shit i didn’t even notice a guy was dead. Then i look at damage and i’m like 4x higher than everyone else. I was like wtf is going on you don’t even realize how much damage and pressure you’re putting out

[waxen meteor]

how does the dmg look like outside of burst window?

still like now?

[surreal barn]

No.

[waxen meteor]

that means better or ... even worse

[surreal barn]

I like the burst during shadowblades but I absolutely hate it when I only have a dance available. I feel like it will be even easier for our enemy to know when we will decide to burst. Can’t just vanish shadowdust dance for the win. Need the blades.

[waxen meteor]

Oh sorry, I mean how does our dmg outside of dance/burst window look good

[surreal barn]

Nah. The damage is not high

[sharp stone]

is there not a chance to get double dance anymore after rework

[tight eagle]

probably a newb question, but I'm returning and unsure:

It seems like upgrading PvP items is underwhelming. It doesn't seem to change the PvP ilvl of the item, just the base, so is there any reason to upgrade it?

The only thing I can see would be for World PvP or if you had no other gear and wanted to use your PvP gear for raiding or dungeons too.

Do I have this right or does the PvP ilvl actually increase as well when you upgrade the PvP items?

[languid ravine]

its for pve only, even world pvp your items get set to 450 or whatever the piece is

[tight eagle]

interesting; ok good to know, thanks BG!

[surreal barn]

You can get double dance pretty easy, as well as 8 second dance

[jolly sierra]

no tree update?

https://tenor.com/view/megamind-gif-26070434

[sharp stone]

okay

really look forward into testing the new sub tree

[halcyon timber]

Its “ok” kinda as normal. Depends how you build to get some type of “sustain”. Def not smoking anyone but it isn’t wow i should just uninstall because damage is such trash out of dance type anger.

[surreal barn]

Your damage is somewhat trash in dance though

Need the blades

[halcyon timber]

Ds is unnerfed but macabre is still nerfed in PvP

Blades is good affecting all damage but /shrug

Tuning is the last thing

We are waiting on that

It’s frustrating because we’re going to get nerfed either way because of just how we are

[surreal barn]

I feel like backstabbing forcing rupture to instant tick again wouldn’t even be OP

[halcyon timber]

Yeah i asked about that and no was the answer

I agree though

[surreal barn]

My guess is they will buff backstab when you don’t have other modifiers up

To make getting your 5 stack worth it

[halcyon timber]

I swear if we had an SV effect we would be ok

It’s frustrating for sure though

[surreal barn]

Need to feel important the other 80% of the time when blades is on CD

Not sure how they plan on that but if they nail it then they did us right

[halcyon timber]

Yeah and they are very stern on keeping us in this constant cycle of nerfs and buffs

Can’t balance this nonsense across the game regardless of what pvers say

Either doing too much or too little . Never in the middle

With x

They are going to nerf stuff then end up buffing backstab by 20% and calling it a day pretty much

(Following balancing trend)

[surreal barn]

Making goremaws worth it outside of blades would be interesting

To make us choose to use it early

Or save for more damage

[halcyon timber]

I think they “want” us to spread out cds

But we don’t work that way

[surreal barn]

I tried that yesterday and could t do squat

[halcyon timber]

Yeah it sux

[surreal barn]

Everyone else still has more than one defensive

[halcyon timber]

Its coming down to tuning

Even in pve its not going to be hot

Doesn’t matter if they buff ST, rest of the kit is meh out of cds

Gotta get to an exam here in a min but let’s discuss more later please. This is the time to figure stuff out and collect feedback or we are definitely repeating season 1, 2 weeks into the season once again

[surreal barn]

What else feels kinda odd is having blades after your dance is over lol

Idk if you have experienced it

But it’s like leaving half the food still on your plate

[waxen meteor]

so you mean sustain dmg is 128042 times better than today

just kidding

i got you

[languid ravine]

games on new char are surreal, I cant tell anymore who is a bot and who isnt

[surreal barn]

Extremely easy way to tell if it is a bot

If you win it’s a real person, you lose it is a bot.

[languid ravine]

pfft, I m a god gamer and better and smarter than any bot will ever be

200% winrate

coz I m controlling two characters simultaneously

with facts and logic

[halcyon timber]

Yeah i really wish it was better instead of the all in nonsense.

[halcyon timber]

What are you boys getting into today?

[quaint cedar]

I randomly got my rdruid to 1800 in shuffle yesterday, that was neat

First time I ever played a healer in shuffle and didn't want to throw myself off the nearest bridge

[halcyon timber]

Lol dang. You play around with angry broccoli squad yet?

[quaint cedar]

Rdruid may be a tad overtuned lmao but it's fun at least

You talking about my tree homies?

[halcyon timber]

Sweep that under the rug ha

Yeah the tree boys

Ye ol broccoli bruisers

[quaint cedar]

Yeah they make rdruid feel way better

[halcyon timber]

That’s nice

Discipline might still suck

Atonement buffs by 50% is interesting though

[quaint cedar]

Because you can actually do stuff other than lifebloom rejuv rejuv lifebloom lifebloom cenarian ward swiftmend forever and forever

[halcyon timber]

That’s not good gameplay?

😮

XD

I wouldn’t know

[quaint cedar]

Shocking, I know!

[halcyon timber]

I just want to stab

[quaint cedar]

Now I'm a cyclone gamer

[halcyon timber]

No healy just stabby stab

[quaint cedar]

Just clone everything and win the game

[halcyon timber]

Blind is imba why again?

[quaint cedar]

Haha well nothing beats blasting fools on my rogue

[halcyon timber]

Dk / dh / paladin can whoop people in their blind

[quaint cedar]

Everyone says healing is so stressful but I play healers to chill on days when rogue would be too much lol

[halcyon timber]

Reminds me of glyph of blind back in the day

Yeah i assume healing is hard but good healers make it less stressful

[quaint cedar]

I can do my rotation on outlaw with my eyes closed but if I play it when I'm too tired I just forget how to win the game.

[halcyon timber]

Ha

[quaint cedar]

Idk I never found healing that hard

[halcyon timber]

Crazy idea but

Leave rogues alone this season

[quaint cedar]

Like for example my outlaw is my main that I invest way more time than I probably should into, and I can fairly easily get 2.1k on it. My healers that I barely touch I can get 1.8k or 1.9k on in an afternoon.

[halcyon timber]

Yeh a solid healer can really dictate a fight too

[quaint cedar]

It's a difference of 200 points but still isn't that weird? For a main vs alt I barely play?

[halcyon timber]

Well something you’ve loved for a long time too

[quaint cedar]

My rdruid doesn't even have full conquest gear

Meanwhile my outlaw has fang adornments

[halcyon timber]

Because we all get tuned in funky way’s constantly

[quaint cedar]

And full gems and everything

[halcyon timber]

Rogues are doing too much damage , meanwhile people afk w B held down with tape and just launch chaos bolts / rapid fire / lighting etc

[quaint cedar]

Yeah

I still wouldn't be surprised if outlaw being bad for months was deliberate

After SL S3/4 shenanigans we had to be punished

[halcyon timber]

Watched a marksman 100-0 a healer through every defensive and all i did was sap a ret and blind a warrior

They definitely leave stuff alone except for warlocks

[quaint cedar]

I'll never understand why MM keeps getting damage buffs

Still slightly salty that the hunter that was bombing into our discussion thread got addressed with regards to the blade flurry bug when we've been dealing with bugged talents this whole expansion

Blackjack still isn't fixed

[halcyon timber]

[quaint cedar]

Outlaw has 2 talents negatively impacted by that now

[halcyon timber]

That’s how i feel w a lot of stuff

That hunter is a known saboteur as well.

Brings up silly crap all the time

Yeah definitely need to hook up blackjack to function already

I havent seen blackjack blind work since beta

[quaint cedar]

Yeah like I commend him for sticking up for his class and trying to get positive changes, but not at our expense. Go make your own thread.

[halcyon timber]

It worked for like a week in revendreth and then it stopped

Out of thin air

Sabotage!!!

[quaint cedar]

I don't even care about the blade flurry bug. I haven't killed someone through turtle with it this whole expac. Damage of blade flurry is ass anyways

I just want our more detrimental bugs fixed

[halcyon timber]

I agree for standing up for his class but get that piss outta the rogue forums. Just as bad as the shadowpriest hijackers in DF beta

Hijacked forum posts and wowhead comments going #removevoidform

[quaint cedar]

Yeah. Time and a place

[halcyon timber]

Shaddupppp

Get outtaaa here, we are talking about pokemon and transmog and you want to virtue signal some weird crusade

[quaint cedar]

Lmao

but what about meeeeeee

[halcyon timber]

I know this is a rogue discussion but what about meeee and priesty stuffs

Pajama kids man i swear

[quaint cedar]

lol

I really hope we get a new ptr build today

[halcyon timber]

On wowhead there are hunters that do that kinda nonsense too ok just about every post

[quaint cedar]

Dying to see if Realz is cooking anything up atm

[halcyon timber]

Maybe last i saw it was bug fixes and getting things to worky

[quaint cedar]

Yeah I've seen that. Every post on wowhead just has swarms of but but but what about hunters

[halcyon timber]

Whoever that griping nag of a wench is that pops up on that low level alt needs to stop too

[quaint cedar]

I can't wait for 10.2 rogue. Realz did a great job

[halcyon timber]

He sincerely did

Literally only have been on ptr since then

[quaint cedar]

Not completely perfect, but so much better overall

[halcyon timber]

Log in to sell my gatorade phials and that is about it

Yeah never gonna be perfect but its sick af

[quaint cedar]

Curious to see what he'll end up doing with all the feedback left on the thread. If he'll change anything

[halcyon timber]

Prob not, its all trashcan food except for the serious people like us commenting

Just people nagging w dumb ideas

[quaint cedar]

There's been some good discussion in there at least

[halcyon timber]

Like the one dude “lets turn all this into dh stuff”

F that noise

[quaint cedar]

Sad to see some people trolling though

[halcyon timber]

I think we know who that is

Already reported that bum too

[quaint cedar]

lol wouldn't be surprised

Was thinking that honestly

Good

[halcyon timber]

2x now

I do think there are some valid points in there as a whole

Hopefully realz feels good about what he did as he should. That’s a hard ass task to do

I don’t see any of the forum gremlins applying for a gig to help

[quaint cedar]

Yeah. Designing for all 3 specs at once isn't easy

[stoic spruce]

Yes it is

[languid ravine]

YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP

[potent pivot]

5 at once even worse

[quaint cedar]

Right, he does DH too

[potent pivot]

Indeed

[sharp pilot]

Question: is the slimy boot damage nerfed in pvp?

https://www.wowhead.com/item=193451/slimy-expulsion-boots

[jolly sierra]

yes

[halcyon timber]

poop shoes heh

[peak agate]

Plus the crafter has to do a dungeon to craft those boots.

If they are like me they ain't doing that shit for a small fee. 😂

[spring bough]

anyone dealing with the damn blizzard launcher continuously logging you out? then it logs me back in right after i DC

[halcyon timber]

Work order’s shouldn’t be cheap anyway. People are stingy with their gold and provide part materials and try to be slick to conning us into making the more expensive stuff.

Its been wonky today from what ive been hearing from others. Prob a ddos attack by bums rigging a bunch of blenders and macintosh 95’s or something

[spring bough]

3 times today so far and all night yesterday

it is the most annoying thing ive ever dealt with never seen this launcher log me out and log me back in without even typing my info in lol

[halcyon timber]

Could try launching from your game folder, that’s how ive gotten around stuff like that in the past

Why? I dunno but saw it on youtube during legion when suramar was crazy with crashes and it worked

[spring bough]

lmao im here tryna get 2 more items for this LFR mog and im in azure with WM on. bunch of druids unstealth and just one shot me like no other. welll back to the guardian after that LOL

[halcyon timber]

Freakin vermin

[spring bough]

copped all the good tier sets for rogue. lfr, hc, mythic, elite and all the shoulder flames for them. think im done for the season lol

[tame rivet]

but did you get the m keystone hero sporestone

[spring bough]

hell fking yeah i did thats the easiest one lmfaoooooo

[tame rivet]

dam, is it really? didn't get into pve content much and though 2k m+ rating is hard to get, might give it a try also

[spring bough]

i got frustrated couldnt get to duel on the rogue early in the season. went right to keys and i got 2500 in two weekends lol

[tame rivet]

sounds good to me, will defo try that

[spring bough]

it isnt bad. i smoked most of the regular key guys on dmg. outlaw or sub in keys is good damage. just have to do each of the 8 keys on both weeks and do 18 or 19s of them

then you get the shoulder smoke for all mogs across all characters

[jolly sierra]

finally im free

from job

i'll burst myself doing arenas

(still surprised S2 ending is not announced yet lol)

[halcyon timber]

We will find out soon , blizzcon is nov 3rd (along with the expansion stuff)

[exotic dove]

Lot of the pveers from what I was told think Season 3 and 10.2 will be after Blizzcon since Blizzard doesnt want World First race going on during Blizzcon.

[stoic spruce]

I don't see the 10.1 cycle lasting that long

[exotic dove]

Like I said it was what I was told I have no idea personally though but one thing that made sense to me was from a financial stand point is Blizzard not wanting World First going on during Blizzcon

They want all attention on that which indeed makes sense

[halcyon timber]

World first stuff is community driven though no?

[exotic dove]

I think so yeah but Blizzard doesnt run it

[halcyon timber]

That’s the raiders problem then

[exotic dove]

They also have the ICC patch coming out midish October

for Wrath classic

[waxen meteor]

ICC was classic

[halcyon timber]

Different dev team for wrath

[waxen meteor]

Damn difficult raid

[halcyon timber]

We have our own

[waxen meteor]

25H ICC was hell of a game

[halcyon timber]

Was really cool back then

[exotic dove]

Yeah ICC was good memories

Been a while since I enjoyed raiding and went to a raid but ICC was one of my favorites

that I did do

[halcyon timber]

But yeh bring on 10.2

[waxen meteor]

Those days we still needed pve trinket

25hicc 4th boss trinket

[halcyon timber]

Ol desthbringers will or whatever it was cant remember

Death bringer’s

Freakin pizza fingers

[waxen meteor]

Yeah

[halcyon timber]

Yeah glad they put a stop to pve items in PvP, well mostly. Always some turd digging a new hole to find something

[uneven grove]

auto kick macro is fixed by blizz

[halcyon timber]

Yeah man i just saw that

Good deal

Now if only blackjack worked on blind as advertised and glimmer wouldn’t bug us out of stealth

[long shore]

guys any sArena users here? is there a way to hide the default blizzard arena frames?

i can configure the default blizzard arena frames, but dont see any option to toggle it on/off

[sharp stone]

cant hide them, cant hide them in gladiatus either

unless theres separate addon for hiding them, ive just dragged them under my side action bars so they dont disturb me as much

[jolly sierra]

CLOSE ONE

no s2 ending announcement yet

[jolly sierra]

still recall when ppl still used it even in cata S3

[long shore]

Ahh okay thanks I’ll try make them smaller and dump it in a corner

Just a little eye sore for now

[surreal barn]

I made them teeny tiny and put a TellMeWhen on top for one of my skills

[fervent cobalt]

Is there a way to track DR with omni CD?

like the way gladius dsoes it

[stoic spruce]

I saw that and I was like "nooooo"

I still have chievos to get

And then read wotlk

[jolly sierra]

im still mmr stacking

[stoic spruce]

Then I was like :)

[jolly sierra]

when it goes announced i'll straight go to SS

[stoic spruce]

I'm trying to get mythic raid set from M+

[jolly sierra]

i can get 1k6 w the lock tho, but im bad af with casters

i was thinking in go demo and just pewpew everything

just to have my first lock elite set

[stoic spruce]

Ever since I've made my pirate mog, all other sets have been meh to me.

[jolly sierra]

crying in my elite DF s2 set

[stoic spruce]

It's all B tier at most to me

[fading blade]

Wait blind doesn’t work on it?

[midnight bough]

I'm having the most difficult time of my life against warriors in solo shuffles, im play at 1.8kish mmr

how do you guys deal with them?

specially on only melee cleave lobbies

[proven kayak]

Disarm and stun the avatar

It’s hard to deal overall if they are double melee

[midnight bough]

i had a situation now where i faced 2 warriors they not letting my ass go and at some point healer just didnt keep up

this double bladestorm with slow is just too insane you cant cc them and nothing

[proven kayak]

You have to do a lot of running vs double melee

[peak agate]

Looks like they buff ic to 10 secs. I guess pve complaining works

[potent pivot]

Tuning in general, buffs/nerfs etc usually come later anyway

First PTR builds are mainly about design

[peak agate]

I know, I just think it's funny that they harass the dev for that particular change.

He just sort of compromise

[potent pivot]

I really disagree with the whole stealth IC change

Seems very bad

[peak agate]

Apparently based on data mine they move the positions of the poison talents as well

The ones in the class tree.

[peak agate]

I don't really care either way. It's their game and I wasn't trying to aoeing people but it will be fun in epic bgs.

[potent pivot]

It was a good choice in some 3v3 match ups and very good in rbg

Now it’s kinda meh IMO

[peak agate]

You mean the original talent. Yes, probably would have been better if they lowered the CD

[tame rivet]

@Gwenstabani

imagine camping catalyst with a DK only to pull people back inside the room so you can spam cam kill when they respawn

must be hard getting that 1.8k in arenas otherwise

[languid ravine]

what does any of this even mean

[peak agate]

"Airborne Irritant has been moved to the class tree (was in Outlaw) and has been adjusted – Blind has 50% reduced cooldown, 40% reduced duration, and applies to all enemies near the target" lol

[quaint cedar]

omg talent tree changes - blade rush is back!

it was moved to where dreadblades was so now it's easy to pick up again

talking 10.2

I'm so happy

[jolly sierra]

WHAT THE HECK

[exotic dove]

Why did they remove it

who wanted that

[languid ravine]

Deepstrat was too good, noone used it

solution: reduce MFD cooldown ah whatever just delete it

[jolly sierra]

now is confirmed we are opening w cheapshot all the time

[exotic dove]

pretty much

[tame rivet]

yes

[languid ravine]

true dat

[tame rivet]

[jolly sierra]

ME SMASH

[spring bough]

LOL

what a change lol

[spring bough]

this is fire cause DB a killer in pvp lol

and pvping without BR feels rough

[potent pivot]

i think most people are quite unhappy with mfd being removed

[spring bough]

thats like the whole sin play is using MFD right?

[potent pivot]

doesn't make much sense, unless it was removed because of button bloat

[spring bough]

id be pissed if i were a fulltimer sin rogue lol

[potent pivot]

every spec uses mfd for first kidney

depending on your strat

[quaint cedar]

yeah, I really noticed not having it when I did the BG solo Q test last week

[potent pivot]

but every spec benefits from mfd heavily in pvp

[quaint cedar]

I'm so happy it's back

[potent pivot]

whether it's used for kidney or another finisher

[quaint cedar]

I just really love that ability too. Idk it just feels cool to zoom up to someone with it. Very satifying as a gap closer

[spring bough]

wasnt the first change removing MFD from our CDR? guess that wasnt enough and they just said lets take it out. RIP

[quaint cedar]

yeah

I have never really played MFD since outlaw doesn't favor it but still sucks for the people who did play it

[potent pivot]

and dreadblades removed

tf

[spring bough]

wait its just gone?

[potent pivot]

yes

[quaint cedar]

yeah

[spring bough]

wow lol

[potent pivot]

thats............

[spring bough]

RIP to those KIR builds people love

[potent pivot]

so shit lol

sec tech buff tho

[quaint cedar]

We also have this now where airborne irritant used to be

[spring bough]

whats that do

[quaint cedar]

nothing

lol

guess we're getting a new talent there eventually

aoe stun for sub was deleted too

[spring bough]

yeah that woulda drove people nuts in rated arenas lol

[quaint cedar]

haha

idk probably would have never been played because of the CD

[spring bough]

whole team stun blow some one up in solo and ud be in the next lobby getting an earful

[quaint cedar]

but would have been broken in mythic+

DB being deleted is weird. I would have rather the ability got reworked instead of completely removed. But for pvp it was pretty dead tbh

[spring bough]

oh damn its either gouge or airborne irritant hmmmmm decisions decisions lol

[quaint cedar]

8% self damage per finisher was way too much

Airborne reduces duration by 40%, so that's what a 3 sec blind? pretty shit for pvp

[shadow creek]

Disappointing changes, especially MfD

[spring bough]

i like this grand melee change to just inc damage by 5% but then no more ST BF damage lol

so sounds like u get GM keep it at all costs now

[quaint cedar]

damn with both blinding powder and airborne irritant I have a 45 sec CD blind

[spring bough]

they nerfed crackshot a lil bit guess it was too bursty lol

[peak agate]

I went on ptr assassination channel and they love the changes because reasons

[shadow creek]

So it looks like outlaw is going to open with CS most of the time, yeah?

[peak agate]

Oh well. My hope moves to 11.0

[spring bough]

probably pop flurry, adrenaline, SND then stealth so all the durations stay and then open CS > BTE > ambush > BTE and rinse repeat the ambush BTE spam

or CS ambush BTE depending on CP

[shadow creek]

Removing MfD devalued Crackshot much more than the damage nerf, imo

[quaint cedar]

idk about that

[spring bough]

popping adrenaline will give full CP now

[quaint cedar]

double deeper made it hit harder

oh wait

new MFD had a damage modifier forgot

[spring bough]

i wasnt running MFD on any crackshot build i did. it pumped without it lol

[quaint cedar]

so weird to rework the ability and then just delete it lol

yeah I never used MFD with crackshot and it felt just fine

[peak agate]

It must have gotten negative feedback.

[shadow creek]

But it further pigeonholes pvp outlaw to one build now, basically, which is what they explicitly stated they wanted to avoid. I’m not a fan pf mandatory talents to make other talents halfway functional

[quaint cedar]

yeah I suppose

from what I heard in pve channels it was not useful

so I guess just delete lol

well improved AR is an easy pickup anyways

[exotic dove]

Well I guess I will try to post something to not remove MFD but I doubt it will do anything unless more people chime in

[shadow creek]

I’m probably just a little too salty right now, really was looking forward to exploring different builds

[quaint cedar]

that's fair

but overall it's still so much better than live

having all the utility we can get now

I'm sure there will still be build variety too

though I think one area that needs to be improved is non HO builds

some people don't like the ambush playstyle and there's not much of an option for that now with DB gone

I love HO so I'm fine with it but more options is always better

[shadow creek]

Seriously, let pvp outlaw have one viable build that’s not HO

[quaint cedar]

yeah exactly

it's the more "traditional" way to play outlaw, it should be supported with at least one build

[shadow creek]

Yeah absolutely…I don’t think it would be that challenging to do, just decouple some talents from stealth and bake in some non-stealth qualifiers to maintain talent synergy

[stoic spruce]

I just threw up

[quaint cedar]

yeah my idea for it was this:

• remove the stealth component of CtO and buff the base chance
• buff sinister strike damage (one idea someone gave was to make a choice node talent with HO that buffs sinister strike in some way)
• maybe buff triple threat too
• rework DB to be better (though it just got deletes sooooo idk)

[quaint cedar]

yeah, sad to see it go instead of reworked, but DB on the ptr was pretty useless anyways. 8% self damage per finisher is brutal

at least in pvp I mean

[stoic spruce]

Then remove it

God

[peak agate]

Outlaw can get the elemental shamen treatment. Get a pvp talent that buffs your main abilities but sacrifice something (ambush) in return

[stoic spruce]

Revert it I mean

I fuckin knew I should've waited to praise these changes

[quaint cedar]

idk that's a bit extreme. We still are gaining a lot over live

Way more utility

I agree that DB should have been fixed instead of removed

[peak agate]

I think the problem some people have is the nature of the class is to kill things in an efficient manner.

[stoic spruce]

What utility are we gaining to make up for loss of FW and DB

[quaint cedar]

I complained about it quite a lot on the feedback thread, but my intention was for it to be improved, not deleted entirely. Didn't think that was an option lol

[halcyon timber]

Translation lost in the pasta

[peak agate]

Mm pasta

[halcyon timber]

Pasta is king

[peak agate]

Making some tomorrow

[halcyon timber]

🍝

Yeah i def have some too, def need to hop on that

Gouge vs irritant o boy

Reminds me of smoke in gw2