pvp

[peak agate]

but in general I guess thats why it does so much more

[halcyon timber]

You figure every 3sec you get 3-4 “stacks”

2 mh hits each time

[peak agate]

might make haste useful for more stabbing but thats pretty gimmicky

[halcyon timber]

Yeah unwise

[peak agate]

its a better CD than DM at the moment

[halcyon timber]

Then anything that amps poison / nature

[peak agate]

works with aoe poison skill too

[halcyon timber]

Also buffed by lethality since its a generator

[peak agate]

hit the off target for 40k lol

[halcyon timber]

I wonder if tier set 4pc interaction also amps it then

Or if the caustic psn talent interacts with it too

Then on top of that, wafting devotion + alacrity + alacrity medallion? = x

[peak agate]

it does

[halcyon timber]

Interesting

Now crazy idea, creeping venom make it proc more too?

Or the envenom bomb pvp talent. Don’t remember the name.

[stoic spruce]

I'm so curious as to how they'll nerf outlaw 4pc in pvp

[halcyon timber]

What is it again?

[stoic spruce]

Maybe they'll nerf 2pc instead

Something about RtB selecting a random buff you have and extending it by 40 seconds

[halcyon timber]

Doesn’t sound highly impactful to nerf

[stoic spruce]

Which is why I think they may just nerf 2pc

[peak agate]

Blizzard should troll assassination rogues by giving us a mini vendetta as a 4 pc set

[stoic spruce]

That would be funny

[peak agate]

creeping venom makes your enevnom a snare device

[halcyon timber]

I think 2pc ss helps to alleviate famine off opp procs no?

[stoic spruce]

Something like that yeah

[halcyon timber]

Yes but does the psn do dmg while they are walking?

[stoic spruce]

I think there's a dam buff too but idr exactly

[halcyon timber]

Used to have a small dot no?

[vocal surge]

Yeah

Testing Swift Slasher on PTR

the most I can get melee to do is 10% of the DPS

[peak agate]

it doesnt do damage

[vocal surge]

and thats with almost 40% haste

[vocal surge]

49.74% Haste*

[halcyon timber]

Just 15% to remove bad luck

Doesn’t seem busted

Higher % to get opp stacks right?

[vocal surge]

14.28% Base + 10% Alacrity + 15% Take Your Cut + 10.46% Wafting Devotion

Ye

[halcyon timber]

That’s filthy af

[vocal surge]

50% proc chance

[halcyon timber]

Yeh boy

[vocal surge]

65% w. Enduring Brawler max stack

[halcyon timber]

Modifies KS to how much off that?

[vocal surge]

haven't checked Killing Spree

[halcyon timber]

I dig

[vocal surge]

Killing Spree hit 20 times

206k damage

that was without Wafting Devotion

[halcyon timber]

Then dismantle on shielded targets to remove armor = x more

[vocal surge]

32% haste = 180k killing spree

[halcyon timber]

Wonder if dismantle in theory removes verse during that time

[vocal surge]

at 51% haste, 220k killing spree

[halcyon timber]

So 21%= 40k

[peak agate]

We have big dam, yay

[halcyon timber]

Diff

[vocal surge]

at 13% haste, 176k (50% of the hits crit, 12,364 Crit Average + 9648 Normal Average)

[halcyon timber]

Plot that rq between 3 points and use a line of best fit to determine
Haste vs damage difference?

I think is what we are looking at before - armor values of classes

[vocal surge]

Training Dummies take 30% less damage ye?

[halcyon timber]

And versatility and defensives for a variable fixed %

I believe they do have 30% dr like plate

Maybe more

[vocal surge]

176k again at 13% haste

[halcyon timber]

So safe to assume then its reliable

If you were to vanish and get take em by surprise and combine that does it amp more?

[vocal surge]

at 26% haste (Take em by Surprise only), Killing Spree does 189k

[halcyon timber]

Fang procs common during that time too?

[vocal surge]

Yeah

[halcyon timber]

Crispy af

[vocal surge]

Killing Spree procs Fang Adornments

[halcyon timber]

Oh sheettttt

[vocal surge]

the biggest RNG thou

is Normal vs Crit procs

[halcyon timber]

Yeah :/

[vocal surge]

in Killing Spree

the 189k comes from 11 normal hits and 5 crits

[halcyon timber]

I womder if crit verse gems is beneficial then

To help alleviate it

[vocal surge]

Yeah

[halcyon timber]

Or verse haste

[vocal surge]

Because whenever the RNG goes in my favor

I can go up to 52% haste

which is nutty

but overkill for Outlaw

[halcyon timber]

Jeeze

Warlock says bonjour

[vocal surge]

XD

[halcyon timber]

XD

[vocal surge]

I feel we can find better stat spreads

other than Crit/Haste

but Crit's already at the diminishing return phase

and going higher than 30% means crit overcap on BTE w. Ruthless Precision

[halcyon timber]

Yeah that’s crispy

[vocal surge]

and we're sitting at a crisp 41% vers

[halcyon timber]

Can’t double dip with boarding party as its FRIENDLIES right?

Or take your cut ?

For science obviously

[vocal surge]

X)

Already running Take Your Cut

[halcyon timber]

XD my man

[vocal surge]

Man this was bad luck

No Ace Up Your Sleeve and not many double sinister strike / ambush proc rates in this training dummy fight

wow

after 5 casts of BTE

[halcyon timber]

Ah dang yeah lopsided

[vocal surge]

I finally get 1 Ace Up Your Sleeve

all of them at 7 CPs

that is some serious bad luck lol

[halcyon timber]

7x4% is the chance yeah?

[vocal surge]

7x5*

[halcyon timber]

Ahh k

[vocal surge]

That has a .525% chance of occurring

that is some bad luck

[halcyon timber]

XD

[vocal surge]

after that

I get 8 back to back procs

of Ace Up Your Sleeve

[halcyon timber]

Lol when it rains it pours

[vocal surge]

130k DPS

[halcyon timber]

Jeeeze

[vocal surge]

Melee and Main Gauche makes up only 10.2% of the damage

Fang Adornments at 10%

[halcyon timber]

That’s crispy af

[vocal surge]

Aye

So

52% haste

Normal Average: 11,695
Crit Average: 15983

13% haste
Normal Average: 8,866
Crit Average: 13,022

[halcyon timber]

Now is this with or without GS?

[vocal surge]

no Ghostly Strike

[halcyon timber]

Wonder what sepsis does w that haste too

[vocal surge]

26% haste
Normal Average: 10,768
Crit Average: 16,114 (the average of the crit are 2 extremes)

14 Normal hits on that, 2 crits

Min Crit 10788, Max Crit 21441

tinfoil hat

[halcyon timber]

For rogue science

[vocal surge]

I think the DPS increase for Killing Spree is from the Killing Spree channel time

[halcyon timber]

🧪

[vocal surge]

The bug with killing spree doing so many more hits in a short amount of time was a different modifier

since the test for 13% - 52% haste difference is the channel time

they all ended with the same amount of hits, 16

and the reason why Killing Spree with higher haste might be doing more damage on average from the lower haste value

has to do with buff uptime

ie Alacrity Trinket, Between the Eyes debuff, etc

essentially external modifiers

[halcyon timber]

So the conclusion is which in your opinion?

[vocal surge]

The damage increase from haste is really small

[halcyon timber]

[vocal surge]

It's similar to what's going on with Swift Slasher

I can get it to go higher than 110%

[halcyon timber]

So hate increases avg dmg so to speak split over 16hits?

If im understanding

[vocal surge]

Yeah

well

it decreases the time between hits

1.88s killing spree channel time at 49% haste

2.47s at 13% haste

[halcyon timber]

So you in theory… get it all off in a gcd w extrme haste?

[vocal surge]

yeah

[halcyon timber]

That’s sick

[vocal surge]

essentially Killing Spree at 13% haste is 5 GCDs for us

and with 49% haste, thats 3.75 GCDs

Its kinda iffy

considering we get better return with crit/vers

Mastery is hard to consider

[halcyon timber]

Sounds normalized in a way? If that makes sense

[vocal surge]

yeah

Since Mastery doesn't do much

[halcyon timber]

To prevent ultimate 🧀

So KS = eye beam ? Kinda?

[vocal surge]

Got Swift Slasher to hit 116%

but after this test

yeah no

Swift Slasher aint that good

[halcyon timber]

Jeebis fries

[vocal surge]

So my biggest gripe with Swift Slasher

is that it updates whenever your haste changes

and the increase of attack speed is* 1% attack speed : 1% haste

Overnight if you're wondering how fast I can get 1800

[severe raptor]

oh

wait so can anyone get 1800 then?

if you can do it just as easy

[vocal surge]

Not really

There's some people who struggle to get 1800

I am well versed at playing Outlaw and I know how to counter most of my matchups

[vocal surge]

the only thing that would hold me back from 1800 is getting stat checked

[severe raptor]

i just want mog

i’ve never played rated pvp so idk

[vocal surge]

It ultimately boils down to how good you are at PvP

[halcyon timber]

^

[severe raptor]

oh nah i’m good then lol

[halcyon timber]

And how well team mates adapt

[vocal surge]

^

[halcyon timber]

Get an ape and you’re in for a bad time

[vocal surge]

But ye

[halcyon timber]

Imagine if keystones had rating loss

People would straighten up

[severe raptor]

the matches i’ve watched is just %50 being stunned 😂

or running around an object to avoid being hit lol

[halcyon timber]

Cc is good its important

[vocal surge]

Imma change up my stat prio lol

because Haste not that good as it seems

and we already maintain a high amount of it

[halcyon timber]

Yeah it’s supplemental at most

Which is good

[severe raptor]

1800 for weapon illusion?

[halcyon timber]

2100 my good sir

[vocal surge]

2100

[severe raptor]

oh

[vocal surge]

gonna try Frozen Writ

[halcyon timber]

I dig that one

[vocal surge]

Oh yeah

no

wtf

I peaked 180k DPS

and sustained 130k DPS

41% --> 47% vers when Frozen Writ procced

[halcyon timber]

That’s crispy

Double frozen?

Or just mh? Frozen is pretty wicked

[vocal surge]

Just 1 Frozen

Sophic Devotion + Frozen Writ

[halcyon timber]

Makes sense

[vocal surge]

Just imagine

taking 23.5% less damage

[halcyon timber]

Usually what i do as well

[vocal surge]

alongside 16.84% less physical damage

and on top of all of that

Feint with an additional 20%

[halcyon timber]

• el feinto

Yeh hah

[vocal surge]

and if we're fighting melee w. Float like a butterfly

and we get Evasion up a lot

with its up coming buff

another 20%

40% + 23.5% + 16.84% (vs Physical)

[halcyon timber]

Well before their verse + mods

[vocal surge]

yeah

[halcyon timber]

For a diff of x

In the name of rogue science 🧪

[vocal surge]

Also funny thing

most of my gear is Crit Vers in the PTR

lol

[nova viper]

hey guys

12 + key mouse is nesesery for pvp?

[vocal surge]

talking about mouses with over 12 buttons?

[proven kayak]

I play with 4 buttons mouse

Right click left click and two more 😂

I mean it helps to have a lot bindings for macros but it’s not necessary

[stoic spruce]

It got a buff?

[stoic spruce]

I thought it got nerfed by 10%

Wow I glossed over those changes

[twin burrow]

Yes, absolutely. People will troll you saying no it's a common joke because it's so important. You need all the buttons then shift and alt modifiers. You can also get foot pedals on Amazon fairly cheap. You never want to move you mouse you want to be able to target every enemy teammate and cast every ability 123 focus all that

And now you need 5 more key binds for the pinging system

You can also do audio commands but that's if you have the budget. If I say 'go' my toon pops blades kidney and dance

[twin burrow]

[south ore]

is 28 too old to reach glad in 3's?

[wary spire]

Sorry man, may as well go lay in your grave at this point.

Your life as a capital G gamer is OVER.

[south ore]

haha, sarcasm I hope

[wary spire]

There are cs go team with members in their 70s.

You're fine.

[south ore]

that's reassuring at least. I only ask becasue of a study I read about the other day.

I know this is a random place to bring up such a question

[wary spire]

Wow's a boomer's game.

[south ore]

I thought that was specifically classic tbh

[wary spire]

I'd worry about you having enough free time for it, not your twitch reflexes.

[waxen meteor]

28 is like elementary school kid age for wow

[quaint cedar]

I feel that

[twin burrow]

Yeah as a 30 year old I still feel like that 12 year old hiding my voice in vent

[quaint cedar]

I'm 28 and only started doing rated pvp last expac

[twin burrow]

Wows almost 20, ur saying an 8 year old at release is too old to play. Lullerskates

[quaint cedar]

Meanwhile everyone is 4.7k+ xp

[twin burrow]

Also there have been plenty of great people who lived passed 28, like bill cosby

Blizz Cosby

[waxen meteor]

fuck, i one shot a warrior from 100-0 at open at r5 of solo game

then he quit at last round with me

[loud sable]

why we are not asking for low cooldown for blind?

[wary spire]

We gave up

[jolly sierra]

ye

well

hope fang embelishment doesnt get nerfed, thinking in using 2 daggers after sporecloak disaster

[surreal barn]

Are you NA? Maybe you can enlighten me on ways of the hunter

I can’t seem to find an alt for rogue I end up just making more rogues

[waxen meteor]

Yeah I am NA, I have been playing more casually this season so i ended up with lots of alts

Marksman just read this

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/marksmanship-hunter-pvp-guide

It's so detailed

[surreal barn]

Thanks I really appreciate it

Too bad the arrows won’t use our enchant

Would be slick

[quaint cedar]

You know, with healers getting 1.5 min trinket in 10.2 and blind being only 5 seconds we really should get a lower CD on it

Feels bad that even as outlaw taking blinding powder I can't have a blind desynced from trinket anymore

[jolly sierra]

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/news/new-10-1-7-ambrosial-sporestone-visual-effects-preview-neltharions-legacy-334858

new glow for greens from this patch

ngl, green sets are wild af in this season design wise

[shadow creek]

I have asked for that, repeatedly. Nothing but crickets.

[stoic spruce]

People laugh at trinketing a sap on opener but when my healer doesn't, I die.

To, you guessed it, sub.

[halcyon timber]

Because cc doesn’t fly with other classes and having meaningful damage > cc

[shut solstice]

I’d rather have my healer trinket and we lose, than the healer NOT trinket and we lose

100% of the time

[halcyon timber]

Rogues kill other rogues. A tale as old as time. Classes who don’t get beat up as easy done die.

Its a leather vs higher armor classes thing and will always be that way.

RBG blue post looks sick today as well. They put a lot of thought into it

[shadow creek]

Do you have a link?

[halcyon timber]

Yes sir ill get it

[fair lynx]

guys which one is better for sub rogue pvp

i have that conquest dagger in my main hand

[stoic spruce]

1000%

[stoic spruce]

I was on my warrior

[halcyon timber]

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/us/guardians-of-the-dream-preview-battleground-blitz-brawl-1666439

[jolly sierra]

why u don't use both?

the dagger in MH and the cudgel in OH

[shadow creek]

Thanks!

[fair lynx]

i have 2 daggers in my inventory

i bought that for assas

[jolly sierra]

use the obsidian one in main hand

and the cudgel in off

off hand is mostly a stat stick

u need the highest amount of base damage in main hand to do more dmg in ur finishers

even me, as assa, is forced to use a crit/vers dagger cuz is the highest level available to that slot

(or maybe pve has something with more but is the easiest too lol)

[halcyon timber]

That sux , bladestorm ftw or leap away is what jokers seem to be doing lately

[jolly sierra]

bruh, sometimes i hesitate to don't trinket a kidney in a shuffle against a sub

but the fucker kills me cuz do another stun and then a shadowy duel

kind of tragic

[fair lynx]

okay @jolly sierra thank a lot

🙂

[jolly sierra]

u welcome

unless the guy doesn't open w cheap shot, then i just insta cc him to see if forces something lol

glad all the classes i play has some kind of insta cc

[halcyon timber]

The double dipping on 10.2 is fixed at least .

[jolly sierra]

ngl

im totally ignorant about the term

can you explain it to me? XD

[halcyon timber]

So peep this certain things being of shadow have an effect like secret technique where if you have deeper daggers per say . You evisc to activate and do your deal then the clones also benefit but also activate their “own” deeper daggers as an example.

Because the clones hit 1x per they can repeat a small interaction to make them do more than they should . Similar to the KS deal they fixed too.

[jolly sierra]

ahhh i see

where was that fixing confirmed?

[halcyon timber]

Last weeks ptr notes

[jolly sierra]

kk

[halcyon timber]

That went live this week on ptr

[jolly sierra]

there are nothing about rog revamped tree yet, right?

[halcyon timber]

I read everythinggggg

Nope nothing new / changed yet

Not sure if there will be drastic changes honestly

[jolly sierra]

damn

im trying to check the trophies ilvl

489 ilvl

i wonder how much ilvl will have glad items in ptr

but if the amount is not odd

maybe items will be 495

thinking in craft another dagger with no spark

[halcyon timber]

Trophys for world gear?

[jolly sierra]

trophies for pvp gear in general

[halcyon timber]

Inthink they will end up cutting down on triphies so the degen amounts of mastery can chill out

Trophies

[jolly sierra]

so i can use the crest once i have the next season spark

[halcyon timber]

Dang thumbs

[jolly sierra]

yeah

crazy

[halcyon timber]

Also cut down on pve items in pvp more

Ie raid rings or whatever

Can’t tune if some jokers are always finding a work around

[jolly sierra]

yep

they seems to dislike the custom secondary stats in pvp items

but still think fang unnerfed would be very good for pvp

with a max crest ilvl

[halcyon timber]

Hows it nerfed? I missed that . Unless you’re saying because crafted items are lower now

That was across the game to bring up the strength of content gear vs crafting items to fill multiple slots as people are doing

[jolly sierra]

no is not nerfed

but thinking in sporecloak

could happen

[halcyon timber]

Oh meh

Understood though

[waxen meteor]

custom secondary stat is quite good for us

[fading blade]

hot take, with the amount of glads decreasing per season, there should really be a vicious saddle, but for gladiators to obtain old mounts/elite sets

[stoic spruce]

What would that solve?

[fallow rune]

As a sub rogue, do I Want crit or mastery weapons?

[waxen meteor]

Mastery off hand

Main hand no choice

[fossil monolith]

is 200 mastery better than 400 vers for sub

[surreal barn]

Depends on your current stats what are they

[waxen meteor]

i don't think you have an item that trades 200 mastery with 400 vers?

[languid ravine]

yes there is, just equip one with -30 ilvl

[fossil monolith]

just deciding if i should catalyst vers mastery piece into this for extra mastery

[fossil monolith]

82% mastery 28% vers

[surreal barn]

Is that after hitting the pvp dummy or before

[fossil monolith]

before

[surreal barn]

Hit that dummy

[fossil monolith]

89 31

after

[surreal barn]

Go mastery

[fossil monolith]

ok

[fading blade]

Maybe more people wanting to play the game

[vocal surge]

Plate Wearer's new Sporecloak

[halcyon timber]

Gentlemen , we have a new enemy

[stoic spruce]

More gladiators sure but we need more people 2100 and below. Multi glads won't leave anytime soon.

[stoic spruce]

Who

[halcyon timber]

That helmet

[stoic spruce]

Ohhh

Yeah I saw that lol

[halcyon timber]

Plates % on hit shield for 150k

Fury warrior turns to kratos

Dk “tHeY fIxed mY suRvivabIliY “

[shadow creek]

Rewards need to be better, more numerous, more varied, and sequentially accessible as one moves up the ladder.

[stoic spruce]

Sooo true

More mounts. Like a less flashy version of the glad mount.

And maybe a toy or something idk

[shadow creek]

Toys, pets, cosmetics, mounts, achievements, etc.

[stoic spruce]

I really like this

Maybe less mounts but the idea I like

[halcyon timber]

Dragon riding customizations through pvp would be cool like that but then pve reees

[stoic spruce]

Pve is full of cry baby dipshits

I WISH we got the cool stuff they claim we have.

[fading blade]

Ya it would bring in new players which would result with more players under 2.1 most likely, but even still it’ll drive more traffic to Pvp since there’s a “chance” to get the old mog/mount they’ve been wanting

Even tho a huge issue is the mmr in general

[shadow creek]

These are good, but to reach a larger swath of players the rewards should be varied to appeal to the broadest audience possible, and they should start being available at lower ranks, as an incentive to play more.

[spring bough]

that would be fire

[shadow creek]

This is a great idea

Special PvP barding for dragon customization would be pretty cool

[stoic spruce]

A saddle with a bag of skulls or something 💀

[shadow creek]

Right?! That would be 🔥

Different colors as you move up ranks

[halcyon timber]

Yeah would be cool, not sure how much resources they have between that and designing patches and other stuff

Or how much time they can since we are a “mini game “

[shadow creek]

It depends on how much they want to invest into scaling PvP…historically, not much

[fading blade]

Solo rbgs are gonna show the wow community(pve mainly) how truly toxic those fuckin rats are lol

[shadow creek]

I personally think there would be a large user base for Rated BGs if the incentives were there

[halcyon timber]

People whine about “recolors” i like them

As an animator , its a pain in the ass to create new models and paint them all

[stoic spruce]

My theory is they don't want as much people to pvp because they don't want to put the resources into it

[halcyon timber]

Maybe , maybe not

[shadow creek]

Very possible

[fading blade]

Ya there’s only a half dev doin Pvp at this time

[halcyon timber]

We don’t know that

Thats speculation

[fading blade]

That’s why I was sayin they should just release old mogs/glad mounts but with a different saddle/way to earn them

[stoic spruce]

Load bearing "theory"

[halcyon timber]

Heh

[fading blade]

I’m actually certain Theres 1-3 devs that do Pvp

[halcyon timber]

Yeah wish we could get comms but

[shadow creek]

There is a distinct Venn diagram of the WoW population that invests their time in various collections, like pets, mogs, mounts, achievements, titles, etc. Offering a variety like that would likely capture the larger population

[stoic spruce]

Remember when they said we would get info on a new battleground soon?

[fading blade]

The sad reality we all know is that the WoW team puts Pvp on the back burner until it becomes a huge issue in the community

[shadow creek]

Even updating the honor level rewards would help

[stoic spruce]

There's that vendor that sells pvp themed battle pets

[fading blade]

Battle pets lmfao

[stoic spruce]

Yeah

[shadow creek]

There’s a large chuck of the population that collects pets, we should include pet rewards as incentive to play. If just 10% of them stick around, that’s still a decent chuck of new players added to the pool

[stoic spruce]

Scratching at the walls for literally anything

[shadow creek]

If the goal is to get more players interested in PvP, I think this is how you do it

When I started doing rated PvP in BC, I originally did it to get the mounts…here I am 100 years later still PvPing

[fading blade]

Old xmog, old mounts, new pets, fixed mmr bullshit,

[shadow creek]

I think @halcyon timber ‘s idea of the dragon mogs is spot on…unique stuff like that will draw people in. Look at the Secrets of Azeroth event, a ton of people are doing that for pets, mounts, titles, achievements, and mogs.

[peak agate]

Hello, fellow PvP Petes.

[halcyon timber]

Its our idea as rogues, not mine

[halcyon timber]

What’s up me boy

[shadow creek]

Too late, it’s all on your shoulders

[halcyon timber]

I don’t want sponsitility xD

[peak agate]

We gonna get you a dev job @halcyon timber

[shadow creek]

With great power comes great sponsitility

[peak agate]

I keep reading spaghetti.

[halcyon timber]

Sponsitlityyy

Come talk trash in disc boys

Whos all coming tomorrow for rbg testing btw?

6pm est on ptr battle with the blues

[peak agate]

depends on when i go the gym.

[halcyon timber]

I dig man

[waxen meteor]

When will we get spider man skill?

https://tenor.com/view/shoot-web-spider-man-peter-parker-spidey-and-his-amazing-friends-letting-my-web-out-gif-25888899

I am fine with either a root or teleport skill

[peak agate]

since my fdk is little higher in MMR I decided to see what the top fdk is doing. Mans is running 14% verse. I dig it,

[languid ravine]

anyone here try do that for Sub Rogue? Ditch Vers completely and go full crit/mastery, maybe with 4set even?

[halcyon timber]

Fuck no lol

Just straight up die

Or get nerfed just because

[languid ravine]

how do you know, have you tried?

[halcyon timber]

Wouldn’t want to gamble on doing that at all

[languid ravine]

okay thanks for nothing

[halcyon timber]

Leg sweep says bonjour

Zero versatility and we def die in a stormbolt

[peak agate]

im ready to try it as sin cause i have nothing to lose

[languid ravine]

nah as sin it is confirmed bad though because you want longer games not shorter ones :^D

and you dont have 4x vanish and cheaps for everyone

[peak agate]

thats fine

gonna report back lol

[jolly sierra]

OHHHH THE MISERY

[waxen meteor]

Does sin do 2 tier or no tier for real?

I am using 2 tier but no re-stealth is gross

[jolly sierra]

the 2set for assa in next season is decent

this one is shit

u need to endure

[languid ravine]

use 4 set and dont sit afk in stealth anyways

[peak agate]

current 4 pc would be nice for the Kingsbane being the option next patch

[halcyon timber]

Would be sick if they got around to making an in game DR tracker

[peak agate]

i went to make helm and forgot i need conquest token lol

[pliant hazel]

if you have engi bracers and helm would u craft them to vers or mastery?

[shadow creek]

For me it depends on the rest of my gear.

[pliant hazel]

how much vers we kinda shootin for?

[shadow creek]

I try for at least 25% as a baseline, but yymv

[pliant hazel]

what's yymv?

[shadow creek]

We get a 4% vers bump in talents, so that helps quite a bit

“Your mileage may vary”

[pliant hazel]

right now im at 23 but my gear hasn't scaled in arena cuz im in vald, and my head and bracers are crit still

[shadow creek]

I think you should be good on vers, at 450 ilvl it will probably be closer to 28%.

[waxen meteor]

Our gear choice is quite straight forward I believe

[pliant hazel]

then we just stack mastery ya?

[waxen meteor]

Try to get mastery and vers that’s it

When there are choices of more mastery but less vers, pick it

[shadow creek]

Depends on what you’re looking to do, as outlaw, but yeah after you hit your vers target try to stack mastery

[waxen meteor]

These include crafted head, rings and necklace/cloak

Crafted shoulder is great to have because conquer one doesn’t have mastery

The only gear without mastery is the crafted boot

[pliant hazel]

we run 4 set tier or na?

[waxen meteor]

We do not

For sub no

For sin, I think no too

[shadow creek]

Outlaw tier set is hot garbage, so no

[pliant hazel]

damn

im trolling lol

[waxen meteor]

Change race to troll

[pliant hazel]

is sporecloak good?

[waxen meteor]

It is

Arguable for sub

But I think good for sin

[pliant hazel]

so what we drop shoulers and legs or hands?

from tier

[waxen meteor]

Use chest and pant

The ones with mastery

[pliant hazel]

is 437 with vers mast better than 447/450 tier with the poopy stats or is that too much mast?

stam*

[quaint cedar]

At least we don't have to blade flurry in single target anymore

[shadow creek]

Higher ilvl is almost always better because it gives you more primary stat and ac bumps.

[pliant hazel]

kinda what i was thinkin, thanks

still run badge for sin?

[shadow creek]

No idea, sorry, haven’t played sin enough to offer good advice on that

[stoic spruce]

so this is just a flat dmg buff?

[shadow creek]

Yeah, flat 5% with GM up

[stoic spruce]

I like that a lot

[pliant hazel]

got 70% mast and 28% vers in vald seems good

[shadow creek]

Me too, it was a pretty elegant solution

[stoic spruce]

simple yet effective

[waxen meteor]

Probably close, but if you can get 447/450 conquer or tier converted from conquer, you can have crafted too

Same cost

[pliant hazel]

71mas 30 vers in arena

[waxen meteor]

I think most of us are 90+ mastery now in pvp nowadays

[waxen meteor]

Use hp incremental trinket or random primary stat trinket, both can work

[pliant hazel]

i could use neck with 1000 mastery but its 441

vs vers heavy mast 450

[waxen meteor]

Sin is fragile but when there are range classes normally we are not main target

In 4 melee lobby using Hp incremental trinket is probably safer

[waxen meteor]

I am not sure how your crafted ones are not 450 tbh

[pliant hazel]

some are but i mainly pve so i'm just starting to get pvp stuff

[waxen meteor]

Using the pvp trophy all of your crafted ones are 450 in pvp

Ok

[vocal surge]

looks like WW Monk, MM Hunter, and Locks are op

Ret Pals are Hpal^2

[waxen meteor]

10.2?

[vocal surge]

Yeah

[shadow creek]

Which lock spec? Or all of them? 😅

[vocal surge]

Yes

Through 60% Damage Reduction

all of those classes can hit for +100k with abilities

also Lock

I had to pump

over 2M damage

to break his shield defensive

[shadow creek]

Locks are hella tanky

[vocal surge]

Even with Wound Poison

max stack

the lock was able to drain life

almost my entire uncontested Dps on him

and if you get caught out in a destro stun

w. infernal

they can chaos bolt you for 300k

1st Chaos Bolt btw

then 450k after

[shadow creek]

That’s pretty nuts

[vocal surge]

Yeah no

I honestly still think Warlocks are stupid

with how tanky they are as a caster

they're on par with tanks

[exotic dove]

I played too much ptr Rogue on live feels gimped now

[vocal surge]

The best way to describe Warlocks

is they're the training wheel caster spec

gets all the buffs, all the attention, all the defensives, the simplest rotation to pull off, with the highest damage

all wrapped into 1

[shadow creek]

They’ve literally been that way since vanilla; they’re either absolute crap or godmode, no in-between…most of the time they’re godmode

[pliant hazel]

seems impossible? i only have gloves and wep without mastery on em and 2 engi piecces with full mast and im at 71

oh

nvm if ur playing sub u get a ton baseline

sin doens't

[peak agate]

right now i have 66% mastery

[pliant hazel]

on sin?

@peak agate

[peak agate]

yes sir

but i only play 2 set

[pliant hazel]

thats what i just tried

at 71 with new crafts

i just like sin cause it feels good to rot plate wearing scum

[peak agate]

As I mentioned a few days ago. A certain satisfaction exists when someone dies running around the pillar due to your dots.

[pliant hazel]

yeah after whatever sseason it was where arms ret would run at u they deserve punishment

[pliant hazel]

hell yeah just won 10 in a row

[jolly sierra]

WHAT HAVE THEY DONE

THIS SHIT WAS GIVEN BIRTH STILLBORN

[peak agate]

at least you still get 10% bleed damage

[jolly sierra]

dude we cant stroke anymore

the bleed dmg is increased like 12,5% with that

[pliant hazel]

what does that patch note say in english 🤓

[vocal surge]

Bleed damage increased by 10% (12.5% PvP). Targets below 35% (10% PvP) health instantly bleed out and take fatal damage when the remaining bleed damage you would deal to them exceeds 200% of their remaining health.

[pliant hazel]

eh, i don't think there was any shot they left that at 35% for pvp

would be giga op

[peak agate]

It wouldnt make sense

[vocal surge]

actually

it could mean

they buffed 200%

[pliant hazel]

10% is still pretty wild

[vocal surge]

up to 250%

[peak agate]

its aligned with tod

[vocal surge]

health before people die

[peak agate]

or tod 15% in pvp

i dont remember

either way the bleed damage is bit better in pvp but the actual execute is like 250% of someone's hp

which either way is kind of meh

[stoic spruce]

its still going to kill someone from 10%

which is dumb

like ToD

[peak agate]

Its cool, I would like something a bit more interesting that.

[stoic spruce]

im sure it is cool Mr. Assassination rogue lol

[peak agate]

Shh let us have something teehee

[stoic spruce]

dont yall get an aoe something? 🤨

[peak agate]

i dont care about that though lol

That is purely for Pve and the last time I did a mythic was in bfa. I have no idea what rogues needs in pve.

[stoic spruce]

sub gets aoe kidney. DOWN WITH SUB

[exotic dove]

I dont see me using that as much as people are worrying about that

And you have to get a talent or two you normally wouldnt get to get aoe kidney

[peak agate]

I'm rooting for you guys because once a clip comes in of some sub-rogue winning a game due to that talent, it's going to be a riot.

plus its double the cd

[waxen meteor]

How big of the range for the aoe kidney

[peak agate]

...It's probably designed for some sort of PVE utility..

[waxen meteor]

Just like monk stun range or a lot bigger

[halcyon timber]

Its stun range

Nut to butt

50 energy and 40sec cd

And is getting nerfed

[stoic spruce]

I wish current trinkets had the info at the bottom

[waxen meteor]

You can view from pvp leaderboard, most of them are 96% +

[pliant hazel]

for sub maybe

[peak agate]

getting to like 90% as sin would probably be a lot easier next patch

PVP neck on ptr has over 1200 versatility so the total stat allocation is like 1500 per jewelry

[long bolt]

Should I be opening with garrote from stealth or cheap shot? I’ve been opening with garrote but totally forgot that cheap shot gives snd

[peak agate]

garrote

you have 3 secs anyway once out of stealth for the damage bonus

[long bolt]

Was mainly using it for the silence lol

Think I have a lot to learn still.

[peak agate]

thats where most of your damage comes from

[long bolt]

Chilling at 1500 but struggling to get higher.

Warrior main just joined the rogue camp last week.

Do y’all run crimson tempest?

Copied a build from murlok.io and it doesn’t use it but saw some streamers using it.

[peak agate]

some people do

the goal is to put bleeds on everyone and the 2pc set (if you use it) gives you bonus damage to CT

[waxen meteor]

Only in 4 melee lobby

[jolly sierra]

just crafted this by public order, i'll bless it with a spark later

glad it procced with r5

[queen geyser]

https://youtu.be/2n_Ae9DGC0U?si=qKJOqXmpfXGvG_s7 Thinking about 10.2 Outlaw PvP like

[halcyon timber]

That was wild man. Lock was so dang sturdy.

[halcyon timber]

Yeah we are sitting between 36-41% with verdant gear fully equipped on ptr.

[nova viper]

Sexoooo

Why u dont use english

I dont understand HOJA CORTA DE MAGMA PRIMIGENIOOOO QUE PASA BRAZILIANO

Its rasist?

I cant be rssist im slavian

[wintry dew]

It's not portuguese

I'd know

[untold remnant]

Guys.. on PTR you can get Goremaw's bite to crit for 300+ k 😛

Do your regular burst rotation, hit a juiced up SecTec (which now also provides damage to Shadow Blades) en then The Rotten the Goremaw's for 300k

Nerfs inc

Keep the attention on the 10% instadeath from bleeds please 😛 so we can keep this Goremaw burst

[minor cape]

you did this on a real dude or on a dummy?

cause sectech currently hits for more

on a dummy

[untold remnant]

Dummy, just watched the Palumor vid, that doesn't pick it

[surreal barn]

I did it after the update lol

[twin burrow]

i hope sec tec isnt used, so clunky

so weak against plate too i just evis

[loud sable]

i wish our sin brother and sisters have %10 stuff.

[vocal surge]

Managed to get

52% vers

on the PTR

in full Verdant Gladiator Gear

Is it worth? Hell no lol

The diminishing return starts to kick in post 40% and really kicks in at 50% and pretty harshly

[surreal barn]

Sectec still spanks

[loud sable]

i wish sectec get nerf %50 😄

goremaw as finisher could be amazing . total shadow damage+ %x damage buff to target for x seconds

[potent pivot]

[twin burrow]

[surreal barn]

I like sectec, just wish it had choice node to make it aoe or single target

[minor cape]

it would be pretty cracked thk

[surreal barn]

Idk, we already set it up to be hitting one target. Rising sun kick be hitting one…

[halcyon timber]

Its a generator and should remain so.

[halcyon timber]

Also requires a bunch of stuff to make it happen and it’s not on a player. Really isn’t “that” big of a deal. We already were tuned 3x so far. Lets not blow things out of the water.

Verdant gladiator gear is available to test and people have 900k+ life. Those propaganda videos were made before tuning and in last seasons gear which is like fighting in honor gear

[jolly sierra]

SEXOOOOOOOO

cuz i still speak spanish as main language lol

[jolly sierra]

wait

which ilvl is verdan glad?

[vocal surge]

489

[jolly sierra]

489

crafteds are 489 too

pve crafteds 483

mhmmm mhmmm yeah could work

im going double fang next season tho

[vocal surge]

I am double fang in PTR 🙂

[jolly sierra]

its still a very high sauce of dmg, right? watched u in ur stream days ago

[vocal surge]

Yeah

12% of the total damage

[jolly sierra]

interesting

for assa i've checked it procs from dots too in live

so yeah, sure, could go like that

[sharp sierra]

Hello Rogues i wanna get the 1800 set for my rogue this season but am completely new to rogue, happy to learn whatever spec but would rather the easiest and most fun spec for 2s or SS

whatever does the craziest big burstaaa >:)

[halcyon timber]

Only if you bring a family size lasagna for us to share

[sharp sierra]

Ill be back with the lasagna shortly.

[quaint cedar]

If you're looking for big boorst probably sub. You can play double dps to 1800 in 2s, though playing with a healer would probably be more forgiving

[halcyon timber]

Also, any rogue can do well but you have a team mate debuff where if they do dumb stuff you don’t win. Us rogues aren’t easy especially in shuffle where stuff is uncoordinated af

[jolly sierra]

fastest one? 2s tho

[halcyon timber]

You’re going to get people to low and need help most times

[jolly sierra]

double dps, with a MM or a mage

[sharp sierra]

MM sounds good tbh

i just wanna blow people up and fly to 1800

[jolly sierra]

sure thing

that is viable

[sharp sierra]

was easy to do on SS on my alts but my experience on SS as rogue wasnt fun as im a complete noobaki

[quaint cedar]

I swear outlaw gets nerfed so hard by teammates in shuffle that don't press defensives. Literally can't do anything as outlaw when rounds last less than 30 seconds.

[jolly sierra]

nah, rog is just bullied in SS

unless u have experience is just hell to start

[quaint cedar]

My main outlaw is 2.2k mmr in shuffle and alt rogue was 2k and the 2k mmr games were significantly harder than the 2.2k ones

[sharp sierra]

Yea SS does seem very unforgiving, im deciding between assas and outlaw but if sub has better burst id rather just pratice on the dummy and get it sorted and nuke people

Also here is the family lasagna as promised.

[quaint cedar]

Well outlaw has 0 burst on live currently

[vocal surge]

Sub doesn't really nuke lol

sadly

[quaint cedar]

Ptr is different story though!

[jolly sierra]

ohhh looks tasty

[sharp sierra]

maybe assas is the go then

[vocal surge]

Once you dump all the burst, you're gonna be having a lot of downtime

[jolly sierra]

in live? sure, but bring a healer if is the case

[halcyon timber]

Simpleton : new solo shuffle affix
“Team mates grief tf out of rogues with poor positioning, poor cc, refuse to follow up cc or use defensives”

[quaint cedar]

Assas has great burst until the enemy uses one of the 1000 different things that removes deathmark

[halcyon timber]

Mm lasagna

[jolly sierra]

deathmark

k cleanses

[halcyon timber]

“Lets overload cool downs and make downtime suck butt we want burst donkey to fk up the class “ - pvers logic

[jolly sierra]

at this step is just a meme

[halcyon timber]

Yeah make celestial alignment for balance like they did DM for you guys see how fast it gets fixed

[jolly sierra]

make us being fkn bastards again and give us duskwalker as talent

would be funny

[halcyon timber]

rOgUe dId 1/8th of My lIfE w an AbIliTy oN pTR nErF tHem

[jolly sierra]

hunters in rogue feedback be like

[vocal surge]

Warlocks when they realize they cant shield wall anymore

[halcyon timber]

Oh fight a warlock

[jolly sierra]

nOooOO i cAnT reaCh 1k8 nOW wiTH thAt exECutE rEEeeeEe

[vocal surge]

Literally drops an infernal on you

mortal coil

incinerate

fear

[halcyon timber]

So over hyping about rogue damage is nonsense

[vocal surge]

Chaos Bolts for +300k

then the next for even more

and you're down to a sliver of HP

from 100% @~930k HP and ~23% damage reduction from vers

[halcyon timber]

Yeh or tell em about the monk

From yesterday

[vocal surge]

Fist of Fury for 100k

per tick

through Feint

40% AOE Damage Reduction + 20% damage reduction + 23% damage reduction from vers

[halcyon timber]

Literally dusted

[vocal surge]

dude

literally ate hits

from 90% of the fight

and the 10% he fought back

was for like 6 seconds

nearly 100s to 0s me in that window

[halcyon timber]

rOgUe dOes 120k w 1 abIliTy peR 1 mIn

Warlock says bonjour with core abilities

[jolly sierra]

a glad lock some days ago baited me a lot w precog

then just teleported

coil fear chaos chaos chaos

[vocal surge]

oh and the only way I managed to kill the monk btw

[halcyon timber]

Yeh they were buffed by 15% on ptr too i believe and new talents from a few days ago

[vocal surge]

was because he jumped down and without a trinket heals himself at 5% hp

[jolly sierra]

lol

[halcyon timber]

Yeah that was nuts

[vocal surge]

and I just cheapshot Ambush Crackshot

Frost Mage's instant casts btw

[halcyon timber]

Stay off the youtuber propaganda vids boys. False info to get us nerfed more

[vocal surge]

hits for 200k

some of the bigger ones

[halcyon timber]

Like the outlaw propaganda vid from yesterday xD

[vocal surge]

That was only good

if you were in Obsidian Gladiator gear

But with Verdant Gladiator

our damage barely moves much

[halcyon timber]

Yeah better off believing in the tooth fairy bringing you a ps5 and a mini fridge of redbulls or whatever she does

[vocal surge]

dont get me wrong

its scary hearing Crackshot pop off

but against some of the other classes in the PTR

we tickle

and considering Blizzard's track history, they're gonna buff more classes up and warlocks to be even more pampered

[halcyon timber]

Moonkin are def getting buffed

Warriors too

[jolly sierra]

assa

[vocal surge]

Arms warrior 100%

they hit for peanuts lol

[halcyon timber]

Yeah somatic was able to get 300k+ kb ticks on ptr. Def isn’t on players

[vocal surge]

kb?

[halcyon timber]

Kings bane

[vocal surge]

Ah

I did get hit for 450k Kingsbane

in that 1 skirm game

remember?

[halcyon timber]

Yeh before nerfs no?

[vocal surge]

it was in the afternoon

PDT

unsure if nerfs got to it

but that sin rogue did land a 450k kingsbane

but my hp didn't budge much because of shammy healing

[halcyon timber]

Didn’t matter because you turned around and punched his pp to death xD

[jolly sierra]

kingsbane will be good af now

[vocal surge]

Fair lol

I really did just see him and went

https://tenor.com/view/sandwich-make-a-sandwich-tomato-lettuce-regular-show-gif-20118158

[halcyon timber]

Outlaw : buenos dias mf

[vocal surge]

dead serious

should've seen the game

all I did was look at my HP bar for half the match

[stoic spruce]

Can't wait open with BtE

[vocal surge]

then my eyes caught a glimpse of yellow

and just went "DESTROY"

[stoic spruce]

Come on 10.2

[vocal surge]

poor dk got bullied by shammy

[stoic spruce]

Dk gets bullied by everyone. Which is weird because they're supposedly anti-caster

[halcyon timber]

Dk was goofing off doing m+ damage on a pelican or something

[stoic spruce]

Lmao

[halcyon timber]

Id argue dks do dumb crap like face tank magic like a divorced father does glitter out of a dancers butt at the silver dollar from fort stewart

[stoic spruce]

Idk. I melt ams in a few globals

[halcyon timber]

They don’t seem to line anything in shuffle

[stoic spruce]

Oh I read that wrong lol

[halcyon timber]

Yeah something is up w dk cds

[stoic spruce]

I think everything is nerfed because Dk health by design is suppose to slingshot up and down and players don't like seeing that.

If we press our defensives at 40% it stays at 40% (theoretically) but if a dk presses a defensive, the same thing happens but it's shown as healing.

Idk why

It's dumb

[halcyon timber]

Ageeed kiting and cds are all we can do honestly

[quaint cedar]

Surprised to hear that other classes are doing so much more damage

Outlaw was feeling pretty good but I've only fought other rogues on the ptr

I really think rogues just aren't scaling correctly with primary stat or something

[halcyon timber]

A 20% feint is only going to do

(Our 20% + verse defense value ) - ( their ability and mods + their verse offense value) = x

Not supposed to save our butts

[vocal surge]

Yeah

The difference of damage

between obsidian gladiator

and Verdant Gladiator

despite the huge ilvl gap of 39

[halcyon timber]

The idea is to keep us within maybe 70% in a kidney shot it appears. They want us to have a team mate help out

[vocal surge]

was about 30%

[quaint cedar]

Hmm yeah seems like scaling is off

[vocal surge]

Considering other classes scale exponentially to stats

something is very off with rogue

[quaint cedar]

I do remember seeing a fury warrior delete someone in like 5 seconds on the ptr

[halcyon timber]

Yeah before people get excited about propaganda being johnny mcgees new vid showed x y z ..

Rogue is where they want us to be as intended

[quaint cedar]

Meanwhile people were worrying about killing spree doing too much damage and I'm like

Bro you see what other classes are doing?

[vocal surge]

I actually unspecc'ed Killing Spree

because it wasn't doing enough damage

and the channel was too long

[quaint cedar]

Spree is a bit weird yeah

[vocal surge]

for people to react to

[halcyon timber]

Do 70% with full cds and get help from a mage to kill people

[jolly sierra]

yesterday found a dk in outdoor when i tried to pick a fornite chest

[vocal surge]

and thats with 50% haste mind you

[quaint cedar]

I think it would have more place in an arena than a duel

[jolly sierra]

the guy got melted in first one and then tried to insist en second one

[vocal surge]

it was no duel

[jolly sierra]

died twice

[vocal surge]

it was a literal pvp fight

that me and Eridian are talking about

[quaint cedar]

With duels you're going to be restealthing a lot so crackshot covers your burst

[halcyon timber]

Yeh on sw rooftops

[vocal surge]

when I mentioned Warlock, Arms Warrior, Frost Mage, and Windwalker Monk

[quaint cedar]

How so?

[jolly sierra]

happy s1 assa memories

[quaint cedar]

Like just wpvp?

[vocal surge]

yeah

[halcyon timber]

Was opposite faction

Si

[vocal surge]

We were fighting on the rooftops

[quaint cedar]

Ah

[vocal surge]

against enemy faction

[quaint cedar]

Well yeah I'm thinking in arena KS might still be good because if you cross CC and they have no trinket it's good damage

But yeah also easily stoppable

[vocal surge]

I dont think its good damage

[halcyon timber]

I think there needs to be more focused testing on ks

[vocal surge]

considering its only worth a quarter of the enemy hp

compare to 2/5s before Verdant Gladiator

[halcyon timber]

Some way to unlock more consistent results out of it without it being dumb strong

[quaint cedar]

Really? Looked more like 1/3 or 1/2. But that was with both people wearing old gear

[vocal surge]

It can be close to 1/2

[halcyon timber]

Yeah rogue stuff isn’t scaling well

[vocal surge]

But realistically 2/5

since Versatility and Armor

[quaint cedar]

There's gotta be something wrong with the stat scaling

[vocal surge]

and different classes have different damage reduction

[halcyon timber]

Damage to health pools seems at most 20% on something major

[quaint cedar]

Even when a new season starts I've noticed my damage seems to get progressively worse as we get more gear

Instead of better

[halcyon timber]

Our other stuff is maybe doing 8% of thst health pool

We can’t gem pvp gear either

[quaint cedar]

Noticed it especially in S2 because outlaw wasn't touched in tuning for a long time

[vocal surge]

Yee

Even Crackshot

felt like it went backwards

damage wise

[halcyon timber]

Lock had like 1 mill life last night

[vocal surge]

over 1mil

[quaint cedar]

I'd get more gear but do less damage than other classes with same gear

[vocal surge]

it felt like I had to dump into a 4m HP shield

[halcyon timber]

Druids will have far more too effing off in bear form

[vocal surge]

like the damage of crackshot right

at the start of PTR

in obsidian glad

was good

[stoic spruce]

Poor dood

[vocal surge]

but the moment we went up 300k hp

the damage felt like it did not catch up

Kleever

remember the duels

how it took waaaaay longer to kill me

when I specced into Combat Stamina

and after the Verdant Gladiator gear dropped

[quaint cedar]

Yeah true

Though I didn't think it felt bad either

But hard to tell when it's the same class fighting itself

[vocal surge]

I honestly thought it was fine at first till fighting other classes

Arms warrior I can get behind them getting buffed

[halcyon timber]

Its just damage relative to life pools

[vocal surge]

since it felt like I was getting hit with a wet noodle

just dont overbuff

like in S1

[quaint cedar]

One thing I'm curious about

[halcyon timber]

Impossible man

Warrs will get buffed, moonkin will get buffed somehow, shadow will get buffed

[quaint cedar]

Do you notice any major difference between hitting into plate vs non-plate? Since we lost FW?

[vocal surge]

its very weird to answer

yes and no

vs warlock I did less damage

Leather and Mail was on par

vs every other cloth good damage

and vs plate damage was lacking

[quaint cedar]

Hmmm

[vocal surge]

Eridian watched me beat a paladin for a while

and his hp bar didn't budge much

[quaint cedar]

Yeah I think lock has extra armor

I'm already planning on adding another post to the feedback thread after the BG testing is done

Tuning is still ongoing so hopefully we'll end up in a good spot by the time we go live

Imagine rogue ends up being the only reworked class that is underpowered lol

[vocal surge]

That'd be really bad

[quaint cedar]

Would be just our luck, especially us outlaws

[halcyon timber]

Demon armor is back i believe

Locks, druids , evokers (obsidian scales + natural armor being second highest after tanks), plate will definitely be harder now. Just like the old days

[quaint cedar]

Hey, you're fine. You still have FW and shadow damage. Imagine being pure physical lol

Outlaw is once again the only spec left with nothing to deal with plate

Feels bad

Assa has bleeds and sub has FW and magic damage

We have sadness

[halcyon timber]

Oh i know, fw was only from stealth back in the day. FW hasn’t been strong in years.

Gs is you guys fw but i dunno how fast you can get it down

Combat had revealing strike back in the day that did the same thing but was spammable

[quaint cedar]

GS doesn't bypass armor though. Just a damage buff

[halcyon timber]

And still had rupture and garrote but didn’t use it much because they just beat the crap out of plate w it