pvp

[uneven grove]

tbh i would love only more posion damage, cus i feel like especially next patch, assa playstyle will go around only bleeds

dot up and run away until kidney back

assa is not really rewarded for staying on target that much

[peak agate]

Envenom is kind of shot

[vocal surge]

You have enough energy to sustain 20 seconds of opening on your target

[peak agate]

the moon has to align with other planets to hit hard with that ablitiy

[vocal surge]

instead of using SnD to buff your melee attacks from sources like HO Ambush or Improved AR you spam Crackshot BTE

[uneven grove]

yeah, and the posion application buff isn't great either, shiv gives significally bigger burst then enveom buff

it should increase posion damage too

ofc you do more damage if you stay in fight, but considering the tankiness of assa and bleed damage on PTR

you just better off dot up multiple targets and chill above 100 energy

[peak agate]

alternatively they can leave us squishy but let us keep the damage.

we can be a fire mage that can't kite

[vocal surge]

Continuing on from this, you'll want your opener to have some wiggle room because the enemy team will immediately stun and CC you making the Crackshot window difficult to pull off. Spare combo points can be used for Kidney Shot or for a GCD, Cheap Shot

[potent pivot]

No

[shadow creek]

Agreed. Crackshot slaps on a dummy, but not opening with a stun in rated feels very exposed.

[peak agate]

For our Asassination mains, how would you feel about turning Ambush into our version of Colossus Smash? Fits thematically with an Assassination surpirsing a opponent and making them vulnerable to extra damage for a period. If you have dispatch talent, makes our execute windows crazy. Would mean Ambush loses its poison damage from talent. Can nerfed the percentage pretty easily. Sort of get vendetta back but not really.

[vocal surge]

Another thing to note, Crackshot windows make it extremely punishing to players who overextend and LOS their healer which I see as an absolute win

[jolly sierra]

i wanna ambush as an execute

like dispatch in former xps

but having a safe use, like warr one, rather than procs

[peak agate]

War CS is 45 secs with CDR, persumably with current dispatch talent we would get it a lot more frequently.

[jolly sierra]

i wasn't talking about colossus

just about their execute

our colossus smash is shiv, if u wanna to compare

[peak agate]

oh

then our excute would be zoldyck would be our "execute"

[jolly sierra]

something like that

when AP appeared ppl was trying to use it a lot in SS alongside zoldyck but was ending being dropped

very few ppl in high rating used it

maybe will be good again now w rework cuz u have kingsbane

also DTB is nerfed, so

(btw how tf i drop DTB in my discord name i wanna switch it to exsang lol)

[peak agate]

Perhaps, im just trying to come up with solutions to make all our ablities interesting and unique for the spec.

[jolly sierra]

don't think the main issue about assa is the dmg itself

maybe in aoe, but not in single

[peak agate]

I don't think so either, I'm just thinking of thematic improvements. We both agree its more of defensive problem for pvp.

[sour charm]

Damage is always the problem
Class bad? Give more damage
Suddenly class good!

I mean it worked for WW for multiple xpacs in a row lmao

The thing I am confused about is the change to indiscriminate carnage

in PvE it took the niche of a nice aoe silence for packs, and it still keeps assa with the issue of needing to restealth to do any damage in m+

[waxen meteor]

Well in a way everything can be fixed by dmg

[sour charm]

I like what they did with Crimson Tempest though from a design standpoint.
Altho I still think the heavy bleed focus of Assa is weird and should lean more into poisons

[peak agate]

Class fantasy broham or they expect the pver to run shadowdance I have no idea.

[peak agate]

100%

[potent pivot]

I think the new exsanguinates are going to lead to some interesting new play

The IC changes does irk me a little bit, but I don’t think it was that crazy good in 3s anyway. Mostly just rbg’s

[sour charm]

I fully believe that anyone who took an assa to zerg in an RBG was kinda griefing to begin with
Not that it couldn't do good numbers of course, but its just very fragile compared to other melees.

Now sitting at a base with the 2set that makes every rupture tick stop capping? Thats meme worthy

[peak agate]

the passive one or the active one?

[jolly sierra]

oh boy fucking class fantasy

that is the biggest rock in the boot game has right now

since that shit was prominent in legion everything went to downfall in playstyle

[halcyon timber]

I don’t remember hearing that much over the years till legion

[sour charm]

Hot Take: Give me WoD assa back

[halcyon timber]

We asked lol

[jolly sierra]

would rather bring wod sub back

[halcyon timber]

Early legion and lessons from the past that made things work inspired this talent revamp

[peak agate]

what was that like because I stop playing in MOP and came back peak covidBFA

[halcyon timber]

So in a way, it is without going back in time

[peak agate]

Garrote was only useable in stealth when i stop playing

lol

[halcyon timber]

Yeah lots of stuff changed , some good and some not so nice but yeah

Im happy we can do different stuff in the trees and customize stuff. Yeah it takes a little more input on stuff but that feels rewarding and engaging

[sour charm]

Granted I onlay played it in S1 (when redbuff combat killing spree was the meta, good times)
But it was more about big and meaty envenom/DFA crits.
You got 5 Combopoints + Cold Blood on Vanish and Vendetta I believe?
Lead to a very "active" playstyle when you wanted to just burn some cds, you still had prep too

[halcyon timber]

Aint no way they would let ambush do 1/3 of someone’s life again

As an example

Shit wasn’t balanced and that’s why things hit as hard as they did

[peak agate]

Meaty Envenoms?? I want to believe!

[halcyon timber]

Didn’t have all we have today and alot of that wouldn’t fly

Yeah envenom used to be the do buster

[peak agate]

nothing about this game is truly balance

[halcyon timber]

Dk*

“Balance” is relative and subjective

If we smoke someone in a kidney we are happy and others are not

If we don’t then it sucks because that’s our thing

It is what it is

[jolly sierra]

that is another issue about assa

[halcyon timber]

I don’t ever wanna creep the ridiculously strong line, nerfs gotta happen

[jolly sierra]

envenom is fkn lackluster as a finisher

and u need to rely in ER to make it hit decently

[halcyon timber]

Either too strong or jack crap isn’t good and what we have on ptr is great

[sour charm]

Yeah but who cares about finisher damage when the target dies at 35% in the next patch.

I am sure that will stay for 1 week and then gets dumpstered

[halcyon timber]

Its not ridiculous ( a few outliers before tuning) but our kits feel solid

[jolly sierra]

that is being fixed according to blues

right now

[sour charm]

Ah

[jolly sierra]

in next build

[sour charm]

I mean it makes sense

[halcyon timber]

Yeah lots of changes next build

For us

[peak agate]

its a general thing I notice because I have played every class at some point. The amount of cheese and modifers abuse is on another level and to be honest thats what I love about pvp in this game. If you can still win after all the BS you are truly good lol

[sour charm]

I wonder if "fixed" means its a dead talent in pvp

Cause then we just play DTB again

[halcyon timber]

Yeah im cool with toys and stuff but we are def moving away from 1 ability being the “main character “ of our kit and that’s solid

Shouldn’t be based around an ability or successful only because of X as an example

Like heaven forbid they tune assassination around the execute bleed and hur hur thats it foe you guys

That aint fun or cool

[zealous sand]

blunt question, will honor transfer into s3 as it did to s2?

[halcyon timber]

Yes but not conquest

[zealous sand]

aite cool, saving honor then instead of gearing now+stacking honor

[halcyon timber]

Unless the announce other wise

They

[zealous sand]

ye

[peak agate]

I think that shit going to get nerfed so hard in pvp that im not even going to enterain picking it

[peak agate]

for my transmog runs im going to have a ball with it

[vocal surge]

reading the forums and seeing people say RTB feels bad is weird

[jolly sierra]

the problem with gimmick playstyle

[vocal surge]

considering RTB is a lot better with 4p in ptr than in retail

[jolly sierra]

is noticed in sub

and shadow dance

if it gets tuned hard

it become shit

that is the reason we asked to not having gimmicks in reworks

or will happen the same later

[halcyon timber]

Oh a blind fingerless hobo could sense that

But my point is , they shouldn’t base you guys around that at all

Hur hur it strong got mah 2k and logged b4 da nurfs

[sour charm]

Demise tuning for PvP is quite volatile though

Since without bleeds up we do basically negative damage

[halcyon timber]

Yeah its gotta be toned down for sure

Core focus has to be the play

[sour charm]

So if they nerf it too hard, its a self sabotage to pick it

like, enemy drops below 35%, takes like 80k damage, and all bleeds are then gone

what are you gonna do, spam mutilate them to death?

[halcyon timber]

So lets talk poisons, whats the deal and your thoughts on that for you assassination kids

[jolly sierra]

don't be so fatalist, maybe they won't nerf it too much

[sour charm]

Deadly Poison should be a passive that applies from every lethal poison

[jolly sierra]

well, im not picking DTB if the proc rate is so shitty

[halcyon timber]

Well what additional effcts can mutilate do? Anything cool like the ambush one doing filthy hits?

[jolly sierra]

if they wanna make us use it well

just give us back deadly brew

[sour charm]

There should also be SOME form of dot protection

not just poisons, but bleeds too

[halcyon timber]

Isn’t that what dtb does essentially but more?

Deadly was just throwing in wound on top

Db*

[sour charm]

DTB feels like an "essential" pick for PvP even though it should not be

Because if you dont run deadly you lose a lot of free damage

[peak agate]

Poison bomb should be an active ablitiy that changes based on the poison you have.

[halcyon timber]

So did amplifying kick the bucket?

[sour charm]

Wound already does half of the dmg instant poison does on application

[jolly sierra]

no

[sour charm]

Amplifying has not seen active play in idk how long

[halcyon timber]

Yeah wound was never a heavy hitter , aint supposed to be

[sour charm]

Mostly because Envenom does no damage

[jolly sierra]

amp was tested in early season

[sour charm]

Envenom also doesn't scale from out mastery

[jolly sierra]

but ended being dropped after we discovered wound poison effect stacked hard with deathmark

[sour charm]

Which is the go-to stat in pvp

[jolly sierra]

it does

[halcyon timber]

Ok what buffs envenom on ptr ( bc f live)
-shiv and ?

[sour charm]

I am 99% sure it doesnt

[peak agate]

it does

[sour charm]

since mastery buffs poison damage, and envenom is classified as nature

[halcyon timber]

What talents add up to make envenom do more?

[peak agate]

just amp

and i guess zoldyck

[sour charm]

Shiv technically

[jolly sierra]

wht the heck

[sour charm]

do you count that as a talent?

[jolly sierra]

yeah true

[halcyon timber]

Shiv and z

[jolly sierra]

though was all ur nature dmg

rather than poisons

[halcyon timber]

So what 35% + 20% from shiv

And what else?

[jolly sierra]

ER

[sour charm]

I mean

[halcyon timber]

Wouldn’t count er

[sour charm]

And MFD

in the rework

[halcyon timber]

Nature wise

[sour charm]

is 15%?

[halcyon timber]

Teag mfd is sick

[jolly sierra]

count it, is in the staple playstyle sadly

[halcyon timber]

Yeah *

Yeah but nature wise

[sour charm]

The thing with Envenom is, in PvE it is balanced as an upkeep buff

since it gives you more crit on your poisons, more application rate, poison crits give energy

But in PvP you can't just stay in as Assa

since you obviously die

[halcyon timber]

Didn’t they talk about it in the pve channel too recently?

About how they “want “ to be rotty

[jolly sierra]

i don't go there anymore

[halcyon timber]

And unfortunately pvp gets no say / limited input

[sour charm]

Rotty is fine, but rotty + needing uptime is death in pve

Look at other rot specs

[halcyon timber]

Because what they push us > directly spills into our world

[sour charm]

Feral was Bleed and Run

[peak agate]

They can change that with a pvp talent?

[jolly sierra]

last time basically deleted all my comments and then later said i would be muted if i come back

[sour charm]

Affli was Dot and Run

[halcyon timber]

Uncool man

[sour charm]

We are dot and..... auto attack poison procs?

[halcyon timber]

Youre a rogue

You have a voice

[sour charm]

It just doesn't work very well as a concept

[halcyon timber]

Didn’t know they own it .. funny

[jolly sierra]

u dot cc and run a lot

cuz ur defensives are shit

[sour charm]

Not on a class that is squishy

[peak agate]

and no frontloaded damage

[sour charm]

It feels very similar to how UH was?

You sit on someone and they just rot to unhealable damage

just that we don't survive like DKs

and our damage is not unhealable

[peak agate]

cause for me to get a 100k envenom I have to get lucky

[sour charm]

The new design of Assa being heavily built on dumping energy in a go, even in pve, should help with that

But then we are in the niche of "oh they only do damage during Exsang"

[jolly sierra]

dk has death strike

had spellwarding too

[halcyon timber]

Pp strike

[jolly sierra]

and the benefit of plate armor

can dispell the stuns

the fears

and shit like that

[halcyon timber]

rOzgUeS hAv BubBlE

No we don’t shaddup nerd

[jolly sierra]

yesterday was arguing w my healer

he was saying assa defensives were good enough

i said to him "then why assa is known as the squishiest pvp rog spec across all 3?"

[halcyon timber]

Dunno healers should be doung pretty dang well if they aren’t cc’d

They all just got buffs on ptr too

Doing *

[sour charm]

Also, I stand corrected. Mastery does indeed Scale envenoms damage.
Even though the Mastery states Poison damage only.

Which makes Envenom doing negative damage in a full mastery build even funnier honestly.

[halcyon timber]

It was changed in bfa to poisons and bleeds no?

[jolly sierra]

no its the typo

rechecked again

it is indeed modified by mastery

[waxen meteor]

I feel playing marksman and sub rogue at sub2100 are entirely different games

[peak agate]

best I can do with 2 amp poisons and trinket

[halcyon timber]

Ptr?

[peak agate]

no thats live

[jolly sierra]

in the list of modifiers

[sour charm]

Is that against a Dummy or a player

[halcyon timber]

Ah mk

[peak agate]

def dummy, if I play some games I'll try to replicate

i do see 120k crits here and there

[halcyon timber]

Yeah matches up

[sour charm]

With deathmark Amp poison yeah?

[peak agate]

its not often

[peak agate]

yes sir

[jolly sierra]

imo they just buff the dmg by 10/20% talented

i don't wanna rely in too much gimmicks

[halcyon timber]

Need to pull up a talent tree

And plot this shit out like we did a few weeks ago

[sour charm]

I mean having to have: Trinket/Proc up, Shiv up, 2x 10stack AMP in Vendetta, and then hope for a crit, on someone with no defensives up

for "Eh" damage compared to other finishers/big hits

[halcyon timber]

Realz said he would be back in a week or 2 because hes working on dh now w his team

[sour charm]

is still pretty funny

[peak agate]

I agree. It's pretty bad, on my war I hit people somethings for 100k with overpower

[sour charm]

With how Assa is currently designed it is not supposed to be a big nuke.
And that is fine

Just feels bad

if you set up a double envenom, which was once the "go to" burst window for Assa

and you see like

40 + 30 k

[halcyon timber]

Yeah different kit and emphasis

[peak agate]

its fine but everything else needs to hit moderate amounts so it accumlates better.

[halcyon timber]

Any alternatives on ptr to get poison improved then?

Yeah sounds like poking damage more than anything

[jolly sierra]

poison improved?

emm

reverting the DTB nerf

maybe

[sour charm]

They can't

[halcyon timber]

Yeah like other talents to help emphasize that?

[sour charm]

If they revert DTB then Kingsbane is going to rinse people

[halcyon timber]

Yeah agreed

[sour charm]

Like assas "pressure" profile will be fine I bet

[jolly sierra]

then add back deadly brew

[sour charm]

with DTB

Then rotate between Exsang and Kingsbane gos

[jolly sierra]

as a pvp talent

[sour charm]

Do you really want another PvP talent you cant pick?

[peak agate]

Vicious Venoms buff is pretty good. Maybe have it amp mut a little more

[jolly sierra]

why wouldn't pick it?

i would replace it for hemotoxin

if they needs to remove something

[halcyon timber]

V V does what again?

[halcyon timber]

That’s valuable feedback for when the main man gets back

But it has to be presented well

[sour charm]

On the grand topic of poisons: Remove Hemotoxin.
Bake its "improved wound" into Shiv.

[sour charm]

Basically: Make shiv apply improved versions of your deadly poison as well

For Wound it would be Hemotoxin, deadly could be a stronger dot etc

[halcyon timber]

Old deadly?

Old deadly did work like that

[sour charm]

But that would mean a lot more PvE balancing

[halcyon timber]

5 stacker fat envenom and each deadly psn stack did more dmg

Yeah and that aint gonna fly

[sour charm]

Yeah

So for PvP: Make shiv give dispel protection to poisons

[halcyon timber]

Which seems to be what amplifying wanted to mimic

[jolly sierra]

why u would want protection for poisons if u reapply them fast af?

[halcyon timber]

Envenom window is that

[jolly sierra]

or w snd

[halcyon timber]

Plus they aint gonna let that fly

[jolly sierra]

dude just fkn buff envenom w flat dmg

[sour charm]

Because it gives at least some protection, and asking for bleed protection is too much

[jolly sierra]

poisons protection isnt a concern

[sour charm]

People would tilt they can't just press mending bandage on every single go anymore

[halcyon timber]

XD

[sour charm]

Give active exsang something like this: "If your bleeds get removed while exsang is up, they deal their remaining damage instantly"

It works for Locks right? :^)

Also the thing about poison protection was mostly so people can't dispel your MS effect if you have shiv up

Effectively mimicking Hemotoxin

[halcyon timber]

Cleansing totem says hi

[sour charm]

since it was on the topic of removing Hemo as a talent

[halcyon timber]

Yeah it sucks

[waxen meteor]

[fallow rune]

Fleet footed or improved wound poison?

[sour charm]

Both?

[halcyon timber]

Both

Both is good meme

[sour charm]

Granted I am not running fleet footed if I play Subterfuge atm

But with the new trees both is always the way

[jolly sierra]

if u wanna make it like that with an compensation

[fallow rune]

Can't afford both without removing something.

[jolly sierra]

just reduce the CD a minute or so

[halcyon timber]

Agreed , always a trade. Especially w us

[jolly sierra]

the problem is with that crap of mending bandage

[sour charm]

On the new or the old tree?

[jolly sierra]

with a 25s cd dispell

[halcyon timber]

New tree is fkexible af

Its solid

[fallow rune]

Well, current one that is live.

[jolly sierra]

dunno how realz is redesigning DM right now

[halcyon timber]

Live isnt

[sour charm]

Mending Bandage, Dwarves, Cloak Talent, Paladins being good, Evokers existing.

[jolly sierra]

but don't think will be a good idea to keep deathmark a a big burst

[halcyon timber]

Prob the “karma” way

[peak agate]

so I just spamed mut on the ptr average like 20k with extra poison (mostly with poison crits). Buff it a little bit more where we can finish something off if they dispel our poisons and i'll be ok with that

[sour charm]

I hold the firm beliefe that DTB should be a "core" of the skill tree, and Kingsbane should be Assas big burst button

[peak agate]

is mut nerfed in pvp btw?

[jolly sierra]

if it would work as karma

[halcyon timber]

That makes sense

[jolly sierra]

would apply a DM buff on u

to keep the bleeding up

in that case

[halcyon timber]

I mean they could give it the outlaw fix for bte

On dm

[jolly sierra]

if is dispelled could reapply

[sour charm]

But here is an even better idea: Just bring back vendetta, have two splitting paths in the skill tree, one poison heavy, one bleed heavy. Have Exsang and Kingsbane as either capstone.
(this is never happening)

[jolly sierra]

the thing is vendetta

that is always better than fucking deathmark

if tuning for that fucking spell is always volatile

[sour charm]

I mean it dupes wounds effect

for some god forsaken reason

and that landed us in the mess we are in

[peak agate]

deathmark/vendetta choice node lets go

[jolly sierra]

it doesn't anymore

[sour charm]

yeah

[jolly sierra]

and can confirm it

[sour charm]

I meant "duped" not dupes

my bad

[jolly sierra]

cuz i recall when it was nerfed

[sour charm]

But it DID in s1

Which took them a long while to fix

[languid ravine]

Back in my days rogues were crying about Vendetta being the most boring main CD in the game

[halcyon timber]

Would argue that 30% in varying talents > vendetta giving 30% during only the cd

[sour charm]

and we got nerfed a lot before that

[halcyon timber]

Like if base kit can always produce 30%+ as an example

[sour charm]

Well back then we did not have a Main CD that got removed by like 5 classes/races instantly

[peak agate]

improv vendetta gets that bfa trait

[halcyon timber]

Rat packing cds isn’t healthy

[sour charm]

I agree

Assa just has too many CDs already

[languid ravine]

literally give it the BtE treatment, turn it into a buff on you instead

done

[halcyon timber]

Agreed

[sour charm]

Doesn't work with Assas "class fantasy" I believe

All our CDs are target bound

Literally all of them

[languid ravine]

okay it gives you a buff: "your target.."

[halcyon timber]

I lt makes sense to fixate and smoke this one guy but yeah

Turn and burn as you please w dm wouldn’t be outta the question

[sour charm]

I don't even want them to change that, let assa have its niche of being a danger if it actually targets you

[jolly sierra]

pve player would never understand

than "funny stuff"

is also volatile

[halcyon timber]

HOw dARe u!

[languid ravine]

ooor "the last enemy you attacked../hit with mutilate/whatever gets its debuffs duplicated"

[jolly sierra]

and any tuning in that

[peak agate]

the damage difference between the pvp dummy and dungeon makes it seem like it.

[jolly sierra]

would just screw their formula

and just will fall apart

[jolly sierra]

that is cuz the dummy has no versa or armor

[halcyon timber]

Yeah and pvp we do 25% less

Crit damage value

[sour charm]

Back to the poison topic.
Being the master poisoner spec, and having the grand choice of "use deadly poison or do bad dps" in every scenario without DTB
And also the majority of your damage being from bleeds ( in pvp ) just feels

Not very thematic

[jolly sierra]

deadly brew

[sour charm]

isn't it 50% less nowdays

Or did you mean crits doing 150 instead of 200 which is technically 25% less

than 200

[halcyon timber]

It was 175 and now we are at 150

Was 200 in pandaria

And -5% off the pvp trinket sets

[sour charm]

That is ANOTHER issue with Assa imo.
Crit being bad makes the spec flow worse

Mostly due to seal fate and dashing scoundrel

[peak agate]

Would you give up bleeds for a more uniform poison/physical damage tree?

[jolly sierra]

in pvp

assa doesn't care for crit

[sour charm]

Yes

[jolly sierra]

ngl

[sour charm]

which makes the spec flow worse

[jolly sierra]

why so?

[halcyon timber]

Colon bomb - new talent

[sour charm]

Because you have less energy and combo points than you have in pve
IF you are able to sit on a target and do damage

that is a big IF

[jolly sierra]

u have no issues with energy in assa actually

[halcyon timber]

Passive exsanguinate on ptr dupes hits now too yeah?

[jolly sierra]

is still the most efficient spec in energy management

[sour charm]

There is no way we are ever moving away from bleeds as a whole.
I would give up the focus on bleeds to focus on posions instead

[peak agate]

I mean, patch 11.0 redesign lol

[sour charm]

I didn't say there are issues.
I said that the difference between playing it with high crit and low crit is very noticeable

[jolly sierra]

venomous wounds is the thing than make u regen energy the most

doesn't matter crit w that

[jolly sierra]

still no issues

that is the reason u go w mastery

in pvp

[halcyon timber]

So what realistically can be modified w/o breaking current design to improve psn dmg?

[sour charm]

The reason you go with mastery in pvp is because A: You don't have the uptime to justify crit, and B crits don't do shit for damage.

Not because "oh our energy is fine we dont need it"

[halcyon timber]

Ie additional effects on existing ptr talent

[jolly sierra]

even when crit was a thing

in shadowlands

[fallow rune]

Anyone got a good sub build for battlegrounds?

[jolly sierra]

it wasn't used

as stat

just mastery

cuz dmg was more consistent w mastery

[halcyon timber]

Shidderlans

[sour charm]

Sorry I quit that xpac halfway through s1

And I don't regret it one bit.

[halcyon timber]

Check pins for ideas

[peak agate]

Haste is also not scaling well with the spec

[sour charm]

Assa is technically the best haste scaling Rogue spec isn't it?

Thats why people play Assa on the final boss in the raid to abuse the haste buff?

[jolly sierra]

haste isn't used too much

in pvp

[sour charm]

Doesn't mean it scales well

[jolly sierra]

cuz u use thistle tea

[sour charm]

Also, you are very dead set on stuff "not being used" and thus being irrelevant to the discussion

When the discussion is about a rework that could make thats useable

[halcyon timber]

Tea causes a bigger headache now

Tea needs nerfs or removed at this point so you aren’t “dependent “ on it

[jolly sierra]

cuz we have priorities

[halcyon timber]

And base kit looked at in return

[jolly sierra]

assa damage is not the issue right now in single target

[sour charm]

Nobody here is talking about the damage

[jolly sierra]

u are talking about poison damage

is that different?

[halcyon timber]

That’s a mechanical shift

Ie talents to augment

[sour charm]

I am talking about the spec being focussed on poisons

Not bleeds

Not the actual damage numbers

[jolly sierra]

isn't kingsbane enough with poisons?

[sour charm]

The entire topic here was about "what can we do to make the spec feel better"

Not "what can we do to make the spec do more damage"

[jolly sierra]

wat

rlly

[sour charm]

because a flat % buff would do that

[halcyon timber]

So what can be improved here to provide more poison focus realistically?

[sour charm]

Which is effective, yet boring

[jolly sierra]

if was just the topic

then just make the spec die less

[sour charm]

Not being a ghetto version of feral for one

[halcyon timber]

Kek

Jeeze

[sour charm]

But that aside, all my ideas are too much of a big mechanical change

to happen now

[peak agate]

going back on topic, I just kingsbane the dummy for 140k so for poison focus build ya know its a good start

[halcyon timber]

Feral is odd because it CAN do big bites as well as bleed

[sour charm]

Oh yeah Kingsbane being back as an actual option is nice

It does however not help with the "cd bloat" that assa has

most of which are on the GCD ontop of that

[halcyon timber]

So what would you suggest to improve that?

[sour charm]

Remove ER.

Which is uhh, also very unlikely

[jolly sierra]

with the cd bloat

i had enough

[halcyon timber]

Si primo

[jolly sierra]

u have enough tools back in the day

just to cc

if u wanna use few buttons

just go dh

[sour charm]

Yes. Few buttons is exactly what I asked for.

[halcyon timber]

Dh can do heavy dots too

[sour charm]

That's why I loved playing SV in Legion, because it lacked buttons.

[halcyon timber]

Just mentioning

[peak agate]

Ok we can agree poisons should have bigger focus. Right now they are sort of just been the same shit we had since the begaining. What else comes to mind when you think Assassination rogue?

[sour charm]

I still think they went a bit overboard with Assa however. Since we have Kingsbane, Exsang, ER, MFD, Shiv (if you wanna count that), Tea (same here) and Deathmark.
And we COULD have Dance and Sepsis ontop of that.

Do we really need 3 seperate single target damage CDs?
Does ER have to exist?

Having a lot of CDs and Multipliers usually means that gameplay leads to stacking them, since on their own they do less damage

[halcyon timber]

That comes down to what an individual deems necessary

Min maxing shoelaces for the sake of it is draining

But yeah your point has validity

[peak agate]

I like pressing buttons but I see your point, it becomes a game of modifiers stacking.

[wary spire]

Also with the ambush procs you'd have to place it on your bars as well.

[sour charm]

Jokes on you I already have it on my bar

[halcyon timber]

Same time, that is IF someone talents into it

[wary spire]

I've been joked

[sour charm]

I don't want them to remove the complexity or anything like that

But I also don't think that having multiple cds that do effectively the same thing

Is needed

[jolly sierra]

button bloat issue is cuz an excess of gimmicks

u say playstyle is boring when flat damage is increased

but when u rely too much in gimmicks balance become a nightmare

and this happens

[halcyon timber]

Well look at who wanted that , honestly. Not even being condescending

[wary spire]

I wanted to like the passive exxag, but as it's implemented it limits your resources way too much.

[jolly sierra]

button bloat isn't a concern neither rn

[halcyon timber]

That being said, id rather have and not need than need and not have

Don’t need / want —> don’t talent into

[sour charm]

Correct, but then you need to consider if the spec is balanced around having it

[jolly sierra]

then u have sub as example

u cant rely too much in shit

[halcyon timber]

Agreed then as realz already said. A pendulum shift AWAY from an ability being the main hero is the intent on ptr

[wary spire]

But what if mark into Kingsbane into er into exxag into mfd becomes bis?

[halcyon timber]

Which is focused on restoring the kit a whole

[jolly sierra]

im pretty extreme to talk, but always is with reasons

[halcyon timber]

Effin aaaaaa

[jolly sierra]

played this spec since bfa as competitive pvp

[haughty tinsel]

If cast sectech->mfd->death from above->shadowstrike will dmg come all at once ?

[jolly sierra]

i knew what is missing the spec

in this branch

[halcyon timber]

There’s mechanical delays in all of that on purpose. Good thing too.

[sour charm]

You forgot to have shiv up, better luck next time

[haughty tinsel]

So i assume awnser is no

[halcyon timber]

Correct my good sir

[halcyon timber]

Mission failed beah luk nex time!

[wary spire]

I like shiv, vendetta, mfd and the new active exxag. Don't really care for ER, KB or tea.

[halcyon timber]

Yeah mfd is sick af

Fun mini game in that window

[wary spire]

I like how versatile it is.

[sour charm]

MFD feels great and is versatile

[halcyon timber]

Yeah me too

Hate 7 pts

[sour charm]

ER feels meh, looks meh and is boring

[wary spire]

Duck spelled it wrong

[halcyon timber]

Love recupe being accessible as well

[minor cape]

7pts is awesome and i hate it being a choice node with mfd

[halcyon timber]

That is why its a choice!!!! Dum dum dummmm

Healthy for the game

[minor cape]

but since we will be cold blooding goremaw now maybe it doesnt matter

oh wait nah

[sour charm]

remove SnD (never happening)
remove ER
give back recoup as a finisher

(non of this is ever going to happen)

[minor cape]

we will be rotenning goremaw

[halcyon timber]

Booe

[minor cape]

and cold blooding an eviscerate

😎

[jolly sierra]

no

[halcyon timber]

Snd stays

[sour charm]

I know

[halcyon timber]

Being slow af is crap

Rogues generate resources through being active

[sour charm]

I don't even disagree with it. Feels nice to use it to spend your points and I still like the sound of it

[wary spire]

Realz really likes snd.

[halcyon timber]

Losing a non target finisher also sucks

[halcyon timber]

Good

[wary spire]

Nyo!

[minor cape]

oh boi cant wait to use my cp on a finisher that is made only to proc premed 😎

[sour charm]

I mean you would get a non target finisher from recoup in return

[wary spire]

I don't like et

[halcyon timber]

Yep count your stars premed even does that

[sour charm]

Would a buffed recouperator in the Assa tree fix its survivability I wonder

[halcyon timber]

Id make our asses go back to actually pressing premed

[minor cape]

honeslty once goremaw is there im playing the shit out of it

😎

[halcyon timber]

We had that as subtlety years ago in cata

[sour charm]

I know

[halcyon timber]

Agreed, love goremaws and i hate tech

[sour charm]

(no I dont want cata recup back, that shit was busted)

[halcyon timber]

Always have

[minor cape]

i dont even care what goremaw does after the damage

[peak agate]

buff recup doesnt stop us from getting hit hard

plus damp

[minor cape]

i just want an autocrit bullshit button

[halcyon timber]

Vial + recuperator and iron stomach is cata recupe

[minor cape]

that is not sectech

🫡

[halcyon timber]

I love goremaws effects too

I pushed really hard for it in pve channel lol

[minor cape]

it makes some finishers free, maybe with that shadowcraft thing?

[halcyon timber]

Talked it up a lottt

Yeah i love shadow craft

Some don’t, i do

I have my uses

[minor cape]

yeah its just located in a weird spot where you have to drop some important things

[halcyon timber]

That’s good

[sour charm]

yeah with vial costing energy and a global compared to the cost of nothing for recup in cata.
Idk, I just want some survivability on Assa.

[halcyon timber]

Its a choice and is intended

[minor cape]

no way im getting shadowcraft over finality or macab or rotten

😭

[halcyon timber]

That’s good, that’s a choice

Difficult choices are good choices

[minor cape]

yeah true

[halcyon timber]

Part of game design is saving players from themselves

[halcyon timber]

Whether its a good or “bad” thing

[minor cape]

there will be so many builds for like a month then we will be back to a single build that devs will leave us

[haughty tinsel]

So what build will be most similar to bfa sub rogue?

[halcyon timber]

Realz has done a great job saying yes and no instead of giving in to whims

[minor cape]

[wary spire]

Hopefully macab.

[halcyon timber]

Finality is filthy

And next week when the double dipping is fixed

Lots of cheesey shit making us look like we are doing more

[minor cape]

well y know macab is like a weird thing where we have to use it while its there

[halcyon timber]

Macabre should be nerfed across the game

Shouldn’t base us on that

[wary spire]

Will macab it feels like I'm playing a monk.

[halcyon timber]

It is ww hit combo

Pve channel makes fun but its true

[halcyon timber]

Its master of subtlety with extra steps

Which is fine but

[minor cape]

well what do we know as scrubs

i bet devs did a good job

[halcyon timber]

Devs did a great job

[minor cape]

and sub will be awesome

[halcyon timber]

All rogues will be awesome together

[minor cape]

dude thats so cool

[peak agate]

I kid..

[halcyon timber]

Yeah dunno because they argue thats why veil exists

Veil was their attempt to help all rogues

[minor cape]

why do you even need this

or is it assa?

[halcyon timber]

Shit drd on everything

[minor cape]

yeah i thought that this would fuck up all my kidneys lol

[halcyon timber]

Was cool but effed you all the time

[peak agate]

I dont even remember that poison.

[halcyon timber]

I do

I was there gandalf 1000 years ago

[minor cape]

imagine entering a shuffle as sub, get thrown into a team with assa and you see him applying this

[jolly sierra]

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[halcyon timber]

It stacked randomly (as advertised) and woukd stun your target at dumb times and DR yoy

[wary spire]

Sounds cool in brackets where people don't care about drs.

[halcyon timber]

You

[peak agate]

jokes on you I dont cc in ss

[halcyon timber]

Lol

PARSEEEEE

[minor cape]

how do you win on rogue

in ss

[jolly sierra]

LOL

[minor cape]

without cc

[peak agate]

i zerg with everyone else

[minor cape]

i guess assa is built different

[wary spire]

My man

[jolly sierra]

u are not a rogue

[minor cape]

🤪

[minor cape]

motherfucker it's you who plays the melee affliction not me

[halcyon timber]

Finesse is our trait, not mental handicaps .. thats warrior and dh

[jolly sierra]

but i cc

KEK

[peak agate]

in reality I dont play ss for that reason people just dr all my shit and dont stop tunnel vision

[halcyon timber]

Ss shows why rogues need to be better

Just as a kit in general

[minor cape]

idk since bg3 came out i havent seen sunlight or any other game and i dont even know what gamemode im playing next season

[jolly sierra]

personally this would be nice for assa too

[minor cape]

hopefully we can destroy 2s on sub ret again panda

[halcyon timber]

Count up all the “potential” DRs you can get please

[jolly sierra]

got some self feedback some time ago

maybe would be fine too lol

[minor cape]

heh should try

[jolly sierra]

i wasn't using crusade

or ret autoattack

bruh

[minor cape]

always feels good to stunlock a healer for 8 years and kill a marksman hunter

through turtle

[minor cape]

so ret was a dh but with burst all this time

[halcyon timber]

Someone would say he got …. Shell shocked

[minor cape]

mm hunters when he pressed turtle after ret threw the hammer

[peak agate]

the chaos bolt already in the air special

[jolly sierra]

ye

[halcyon timber]

Grandfather panda mining fel iron (2007) colorized

[jolly sierra]

KEK

[minor cape]

assa rogue getting into a 3 ret shuffle circa end of df s1 colorized

[wary spire]

Man warlock port would be cool.

Call it shadow teleport and send it.

Or decoy.

[halcyon timber]

You mean distracting mirage?

XD

[wary spire]

Ffs.

[halcyon timber]

Ability has veryyy veryyyy niche uses

[wary spire]

Don't remind me of this shit.

[halcyon timber]

Like miraging idiots who trinket sap

[peak agate]

when I was still playing SS my favorite "ah shit, im fucked moment" was being WW monk in a double hunter, mage lobby

[halcyon timber]

Had a guy swinging at it open world

[wary spire]

Like what was even the use case for it.

[halcyon timber]

I pulled an obi won hologram on him

[wary spire]

Casual bgs?

[jolly sierra]

assa rog mets dwarfs playing as ret, surv and demo in S1 (2023, colorized)

[halcyon timber]

Ive used it in arena

You can use it to track people as it follows mages in invis

Hunters etc

And you can teleport with it

It USED to be usable while stunned / rooted so you could teleport like transcendence

Had to have the clone out and time it well

[wary spire]

It can only be used while the target is ooc, no?

[halcyon timber]

Ie— stormbolt coming and you tele

Yes

Only OOC and your ghost must be up first

[minor cape]

imagine if like assa had an ability similar to obliterate ɓut that was boosted by another damage ability, but also had an ability to spin like a beyblade and also if assa shadowstepped to someone any spell to that person would be redirected to rogue. Also would be cool if assa had an evasion but better, i would call it "parry" that would be an awesome rework

[halcyon timber]

All in the same ability

Or no dice

I think from what our assassin brethren are getting at is zoldyk might be worth revisiting

[halcyon timber]

So instead of “only” the execute window w psns.. how about it expands to more than jsut that threshold?

Ex: punishment / condemn from warrior but through zoldyck?

Thresholds where the assassin could easily augment their stuff?

[peak agate]

whatcha mean like the ablity changes to something?

[halcyon timber]

Maybe

Like panda brought up old dispatch

What if — that applied through something like that? Instead of rng?

Too strong? Or just lame? I dunno i just want to see my friends happy

[peak agate]

something along the lines of below 30% you attempt to assasinate the target, your envenom turns into an empower version of itself with increase damage etc

[halcyon timber]

Instead of zoldyck applying 30% to all nature dmg?

Dunno if im even spelling that correctly sorry

Not trying to meme

[peak agate]

applies to bleeds too

[halcyon timber]

Hmm right on

So a 30% amp in that threshold does do it

Tough to say man

Well outside of KB what else “could be done” ?

Shiv + Zoldyck is 50%

Add in Mfd for 65%

Total that is

[peak agate]

I think if we want a front load execute they can do the dot class thing were it consumes your remaining dot damage. They would just need need to limit it to like 20% of your remaining dots

[halcyon timber]

Who does that on lock?

[peak agate]

they had it

[halcyon timber]

Destruction and affliction no?

Des was with conflag or some shit adding into chaos bolt or something?

Oh what about the priest talent

[peak agate]

yeah but conflag dot damage isnt that ssstrong

[halcyon timber]

Consuming dots to make swd amp more

[peak agate]

logs into warlock

[halcyon timber]

Dunno what it is those pajama wearers do

But its like swp and solace?

8 sec is eaten off to empower swd

[peak agate]

yeah that ablitiy no longer exist for warlocks

[halcyon timber]

So say an optional talent to eat garrote ticks

For more env dmg

[jolly sierra]

make dispatch with mop iteration back

the one with like 200% ap in formula or so

[halcyon timber]

Yeah or that

Whats the 70% nature amp doing atm?

Like 60k ?

Prob 45 or so on players

[jolly sierra]

like 80k or so

[jolly sierra]

oh that shit was nerfed hard

back in the day lol

[halcyon timber]

Yeah thst is oblivion now

Oblivion is juiced harder

[peak agate]

it used to crit, then no then it was deleted

[peak agate]

yeah I see I have it on my lock

[halcyon timber]

So how to make that work for assassins?

Realistically ***

[wary spire]

Sounds p close to Kingsbane.

[halcyon timber]

True

Kb is what? 45s cd?

[peak agate]

1 min

[halcyon timber]

Mk so good short cd

[jolly sierra]

i recall this shit in bfa

[peak agate]

no one used it lol

[halcyon timber]

Was cancer af

Kept getting nerfed that is why

[jolly sierra]

lemme read

[wary spire]

I miss my shield from bfa so much...

[halcyon timber]

Oh lying in wait?

That ws the heal nvm

[jolly sierra]

disgusting af

yeah is like KB

[halcyon timber]

Kb > warlock filth

Pajama Harry Potters can get bent

XD

[wary spire]

Don't remember the name, but it was just a small shield that refreshed like every 20 seconds.

[peak agate]

you can have an amp up kb as pvp talent that increases its talent but like mage said I rather have og dispatch

[halcyon timber]

Let me see

[peak agate]

but im guessing it would need a new name

[jolly sierra]

was an azerite one

i recall

[wary spire]

No random unstealths from Itty bitty dots.

[jolly sierra]

has the icon of a yellow shell

[wary spire]

Ye.

Defensive matrix?

I don't member.

[halcyon timber]

Resounding protection

Was a general non specific trait

30s refresh on shields

[wary spire]

Yep that's the one.

[halcyon timber]

Honestly i do that with a crafted necklace now

When i realllly want to stealth

[peak agate]

we got a few azerite traits as talents...just need nothings personal

[jolly sierra]

pshhh nothing personnel kid

[halcyon timber]

XD was filthy

I do love my inevitability being back

My… PrEcIouS

[halcyon timber]

That meth sonic?

Not even once!

2 feints > all that shit

[jolly sierra]

longstrider was funny af

[halcyon timber]

Made up for low enchants

You guys test the new embellishments yet?

Nothing crazy but def curious

[haughty tinsel]

Any ideas for assass dance build for pvp ?

[halcyon timber]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-health-potions-embellishments-and-enchant-in-patch-10-2-new-profession-items-335014

Plate boys might be a problem

[halcyon timber]

If you give panda 15 euro and a bag full of oreos he might tell you

Memes aside, i have zero clue man sorry

[peak agate]

https://tenor.com/view/fascinating-sonic-the-hedgehog-sonic-prime-intriguing-curious-gif-27268706

[halcyon timber]

Kek

[jolly sierra]

god dammit

got fucking trolled with shuffle

50m queue

the guys never used cds in my rounds

then got dced

and lose like 180 CR

big deal

glad was with the warrior

he ate all the shit there

[halcyon timber]

ROguE sTUn sOmeThinG

[jolly sierra]

no

i was playing

with MY warrior

[halcyon timber]

Ohhh

[peak agate]

lol 50 mins

[halcyon timber]

For a queue?

[jolly sierra]

yes

im going for food

got a deserter

lol

this is one of my biggest mid fingers in season

[peak agate]

When my 2s partner took a wow break, I tired some solo shuffle. I watch the warlock run for his life for 6 rounds, he only won 1 round because I was ccing the war who was talking shit to everyone in each round. Good times. Never again.

[halcyon timber]

Yeah lots of rogue cc trash talk but no one likes it when they are getting trained so its like pick one ?

You want help or are you a responsible adult to watch your own butt and use cds?

[wanton breach]

I just got bullied by two rogues on my fresh mage can't ever have a cast go off, only spam instants

[halcyon timber]

Blast wave like team rocket boyyyy

That must of stunk dude

[wanton breach]

I'm too bad to do that properly

still learning pew pew

[halcyon timber]

I wouldn’t know man xD

[jolly sierra]

going again

[halcyon timber]

I just stab

[wanton breach]

i still won when there only one rogue on the enemy team, train the yellow is the good old reliable strat

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-gif-13487561

[halcyon timber]

XD XD

roGUeS nEvER dIE

My favorite forum post “rOgzuEs aRe imMorTaL”

Absolutely nonsense

[wanton breach]

you're a masochist, you know that?

[jolly sierra]

yeah, my mind is in bot mode

[halcyon timber]

Shark bait who ha ha!

[jolly sierra]

so i'll go merciless this time

[wanton breach]

friend started pvp a few weeks ago and got over 1k solo shuffle rounds, i don't even have that on all my characters in season 1

[jolly sierra]

tell him to go to sleep

[wanton breach]

true warrior spirit, go smash some things, panda

[jolly sierra]

ME SMASH

[wanton breach]

and disarm mages!

[halcyon timber]

Sap drd targets too

[jolly sierra]

zap smash to the extreme

[wanton breach]

i got disarmed three times today as mage in 2s, once by a rogue, once by a warrior and once by a sv hunter

[halcyon timber]

Are you winning son?

[jolly sierra]

yeah they knew u need ur staff

[wanton breach]

can't bonk em without my staff, that's true

[jolly sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/6g6s-mr-gorizon4ik-xd-gif-23777007

[wanton breach]

[surreal barn]

We are if we want to be 😂

[halcyon timber]

Ha

[surreal barn]

But then so is our opponent

[halcyon timber]

Agreed

“I didn’t prevent re stealth but it’s not my fault “

[jolly sierra]

what the heck

i didn't dropped that hard with the dc

[halcyon timber]

Meanwhile us

[surreal barn]

I want glass cannon sub back

Make me restealth blizz

I dare you

[halcyon timber]

-_-

[surreal barn]

Lol I just enjoy the gameplay, it’s why I was assa bfa

[halcyon timber]

Can still rat it up but on your own terms

[surreal barn]

Vendetta and committing your defensive cds as offensive ones separated the boys from the men

[halcyon timber]

I don’t enjoy 5 seconds of playing 45s of effin off and being tuned around that

[surreal barn]

Yup

Once we get pvp ptr tuning we can see which builds our playstyle will hover towards

[halcyon timber]

Yeah ptr is great

[surreal barn]

You think that is this week?

[halcyon timber]

Def multiple styles

And i love it

[fallow rune]

Which one of the pvp builds from the faq is recommended for battlegrounds?

[halcyon timber]

Hopefully no dumb knee jerk nerfs

Yeah this week new build realz said

W tuning

[surreal barn]

Depends on your team role tbh

[fallow rune]

Well its just random bg's and open world stuff.

[potent pivot]

Also depends on spec

[fallow rune]

Playing Sub.

I'll just be doing random battlegrounds/ open world pvp with my friend who plays ench shaman.

[potent pivot]

Any of them should be fine for regular bg’s and wpvp

[halcyon timber]

Just stun stuff for him to tab target kill people

[fallow rune]

Havent played rogue for years so trying to find a build that's decent enough for random battlegrounds.

[potent pivot]

Build is hardly going to matter for that, dw

Try em out til you find the one you prefer

[surreal barn]

I’d go 2pc rotten for what you said

I’m gonna miss this playstyle after 10.2 😢

[fallow rune]

That one?

[surreal barn]

That one can work, but for team fights subterfuge comes in handy

[potent pivot]

[surreal barn]

BUQAAWulQAmRd/c4Iy2r7VOUFAAABAAAAAAAESSSikISikkgkAkERSSgkk0QkUSSCQEAAAA

This is what I run but some don’t lika da gloom lol

[fallow rune]

I've been leveling with gloom.

[surreal barn]

For this since you’re missing the second of dance you have to be quick on the sectech

[fallow rune]

Atm my build looks like this.

BUQAAWulQAmRd/c4Iy2r7VOUFAAABAAAAAAAESSSikAJkkAJAJJJJJRKkk0QkUSSCQEAAAA

[surreal barn]

So you’d dance >cheap > SS> sectech> symbols> gloom> evisc

Your sectec goes off same time as the 100k gloom which rips

Not a huge fan of the first dance since you get the combo points from rotten

A lot of people use it though 🤷‍♂️

[fallow rune]

Why gloom over another SS?

Not enough time?

[surreal barn]

Gloom hits really hard after a couple shadow strikes

[halcyon timber]

Me likey da gloom

[surreal barn]

Harder than the SS

[halcyon timber]

Slightly less according to the pve kids upstairs

[jolly sierra]

won 5

this time

[fallow rune]

Dance, stunn, shadowstrike, secret technique, the symbols and a gloom attack.

[surreal barn]

Yeah

[surreal barn]

You get extra macabre stack too

[halcyon timber]

Hopefully tuning is kind and they take their time with it. The raid starts next week too

[fallow rune]

And fleet footed over improved wound poison for battlegrounds?

[halcyon timber]

Yes in dance

Up to you spyre

[surreal barn]

So if you want to swap the sectec later it will be harder but I kind of like to make sure they take it

[fallow rune]

So its either 27% healing reduction..

or 45%

[halcyon timber]

Eh? Its halved in pvp

We don’t do 45% healing reduction in pvp

And blackjack + wound don’t stack either

[surreal barn]

Those were the days

[halcyon timber]

Yeah they were

Blackjack was 70% then, no idea how but yeah

[fallow rune]

Blackjack?

[surreal barn]

I felt much squishier then

[halcyon timber]

Yes sir back in the day

Before the clone wars

Well we didn’t have elusiveness

And had a lot less

[surreal barn]

Before the every move giving 7cp days

[halcyon timber]

And recuperating was slow (3sec)

Healed us for 4.5% every 3 i think

Could be upgraded to 5 or so

Can’t remember

[fallow rune]

So how do I open up on someone in pvp? Stunn, SS, SS, Rupture?

[surreal barn]

Don’t dr your stun

[halcyon timber]

I do like vial over recupe though won’t lie. Same amount of healing just on demand . Recuperator is a nice bonus as well.

And a shorter amount of time

[fallow rune]

How do you mean? Open up with SS only and then rupture?

[surreal barn]

I mean maybe open with cheap on another but I wouldnt cheap the kill target unless you are bursting

[fallow rune]

Wait with the cheap shot until I do my shadow dance?

[halcyon timber]

Depends

[wary spire]

🛌 💤

[halcyon timber]

Simple is good, crazy wacky rick and morty shit gets us nerfed

[surreal barn]

You can just dance from stealth and go ham if you feel like it is time to party

[fallow rune]

But you do put up rupture as one of the first things, right?

[surreal barn]

It is nice to have if you have a healer behind you

[halcyon timber]

Like engineering azerite from bfa . Was wacky and yet they held off for whatever reason to nerf it but def nerfed rogues instead

[wary spire]

But like what's the point of doing embellishments that are just fancy gems?

[halcyon timber]

Exactly that, fancy gems for slight bonuses instead of effing up peoples kits

Like wrist rocket back in wrath, shit was dumb

[surreal barn]

Them haste gloves tho

Boom

[halcyon timber]

Sum of the parts for bonuses > big goofy stuff thst gets nerfed

[wary spire]

But I play the game for big goofy stuff...

[halcyon timber]

Yeah back when cogs were a thing too

And giant ass gems

[jolly sierra]

i still recall the gloves enchant from mop

[halcyon timber]

Yeah but then they tune us all around big goofy stuff and we do zip for damage because of that

Stuff should be bonuses and such, not x does 50000 more than everything else

[wary spire]

Wonder if Engineering will get a blink this patch...

[halcyon timber]

Maybe, datamining started again today

[surreal barn]

The shadowflame sled gets you across the whole wsg map in randoms

[halcyon timber]

Lol jeeze

[surreal barn]

In stealth too