pvp

[surreal barn]

Rapid fire the new ray of frost

lol

[halcyon timber]

Yeah RF truly is ray now

They can what? Make survival of the fittest a 60% wall or make it a 2min cd ?

Like shaman’s astral shift

I mean they can ROS and MD / interlope which is strong if they are slick

Traps giving 8% dr too i think

[jolly sierra]

does all hunts have survival of the fittest?

or only 1 spec?

think they can give defensives across all specs for hunts

but tbh who tf cares about hunts

[minor cape]

there is already a glass cannon spec

😩

and it does the same dam as hunter if not more

has better kiting tools

[halcyon timber]

Sorry 40% and 10% dr on traps

[minor cape]

and has better control

oh and also somehow ice block doesnt let any damage through

[jolly sierra]

i fkn hate frost double cube

[minor cape]

dispelable tho

[jolly sierra]

well, by priest and warrs

[halcyon timber]

Yeh or they can turn it into a 70% wall

[minor cape]

the 70% wall shit is insane

its still unkillable so who cares

[jolly sierra]

the thing i hate about frost is than they bypasses cheat death

[halcyon timber]

Yeah “ it can be dispelled” isn’t a good argument

[minor cape]

do you guys

play cheat vs mages

or nah

[halcyon timber]

For a 70% wall

Nah

[minor cape]

i dont too

[halcyon timber]

Elusiveness and kiting a lot

[minor cape]

++

[jolly sierra]

for fucking frosts? no way

[minor cape]

elusiveness is insane vs mage

like any mage

the only exception is playing against rm in 2s

[jolly sierra]

if they can do a double strike which hits hard then im discarding cheat death against that guy

mage bypasses cuz glacial pike + icicle or whatever is called

[minor cape]

im discarding cheat if im going to get punched by unavoidable damage the whole game

[jolly sierra]

hunts were able w tap

[minor cape]

or if there is a strong dot class

cause cheat just gets removed

by dots

🤪

like affli dots or assa

not destro dots ofc

[minor cape]

thank god this shit got removed

[jolly sierra]

for example against a ww

i use cheat death

cuz if they touches of death

it goes eaten by cheat

[minor cape]

hmmm i play elus vs monk

cause it helps a lot when you cant run away

[jolly sierra]

i won a round in SS once cuz i got saved by cheat death

against a monk

[minor cape]

anyway i play elusiveness against anything in shuffs

🤪

[jolly sierra]

against rets for example i use cheat death too

[minor cape]

yeah its good vs ret

[jolly sierra]

the problem is for example when they uses veredict + div storm

[minor cape]

cause wheelchairman cant catch you anyway

🤪

[jolly sierra]

that would be a bad ending

he can now w rework lol

remember they are midrange now

[minor cape]

nah they still suck at chasing shit

[jolly sierra]

20y final veredicts

warrs for example can fuck cheat death too w execute and the MS stacks

dunno how is called in english

but is a stackable debuff which usually triggers by like 120k in execute

[halcyon timber]

yeah would rather have on demand elusiveness + vial and take my chances

[minor cape]

elusiveness is a fucking insane defensive

cheat is a joke 🤪

[halcyon timber]

cheat death is very hit or miss it feels unless you use emblem + vial + a sick healer xD

I wouldn't say it's insane though

20% isn't going to save us from TOD xD

[minor cape]

its super unreliable like i can't just stand there and not trinket and rely on cheat

but i can if i pre feint

😎

[halcyon timber]

yeah cheat sucks but if it's too good then yeah whatever

reasonable that they nerfed it a bunch since bc days / wrath days

freakin rets can feel like fighting a boss that has multiple stages if they are solid sometimes (out in the world w/o dampening)

some warlocks are abnormally tanky too

[jolly sierra]

or dunno make elusiveness work in stuns

[halcyon timber]

they can't do that

forums will burn down and all the npcs will storm blizz hq

[jolly sierra]

they can

[halcyon timber]

u Did wUt BliZzArd!

[jolly sierra]

but they shouldnt

[halcyon timber]

yeah it's whatever

feint early and feint often xD

would really like if elusiveness was just absorbed into feint though and the aoe was brought down to 20% anyway because balance reasons

[jolly sierra]

precast feint isnt that easy sadly

[halcyon timber]

dunno , I use it when healer is thrown into CC as an example

[jolly sierra]

i would wish both elusiveness and cheat death at same time

[halcyon timber]

or coming out of CC

[jolly sierra]

like in beta

at least for assa

like sub w 2 vanishes

[minor cape]

y feint in stun is too good

[jolly sierra]

rets has that fkn defensive which works in stun

[halcyon timber]

people would paint the walls of their house in diahhrea if we could

[minor cape]

imagine wanting to do a kill go and mf just feints every time

[jolly sierra]

but yeah is every min

[jolly sierra]

heh

[tepid willow]

quite simply have gapless feint up at all times

float like a goon

[gleaming pawn]

I would take feint being off the gcd, probably even an energy cost reduction, but mostly the gcd thing

then it becomes easier to try and pre-feint burst without giving us feint in a stun

also I know most of y'all don't pve, but trying to feint in a key while dpsing is some awful bullshit

[sturdy canopy]

Aye using a defensive shouldn't be a DPS loss

[halcyon timber]

yeah would be nice to feint off gcd in keystones too

but prob won't fly as the director talked about that a while ago in SL. Something around the lines of making a choice moment to moment using a defensive vs an attack vs a heal etc

which I can kinda get behind but it is a pain in the butt. I haven't really done many keystones this expansion due to team splitting apart but i'll get back to it eventually.

[gleaming pawn]

that only works until you look at evasion and cloak

both are off the gcd

[halcyon timber]

right however major defensives being on gcd would be pretty rough. Multiple classes talk about that a lot as well.

my arms are up in the air about it as they can't give way to everything.. I duno. I'm not a developer but it would be nice to hear why / what their thoughts specifically and truthfully are.

it's kinda like valeera's leg armor in legion, there was no reason for that to exist honestly. spammable feint and healing.

was cool to have, was not balanced. They start tweaking everything and taking stuff off gcd and such then it probably leads to some mathy trickle behavior or something I dunno. WIsh we could ask Realz on stuff like that but prob couldn't answer.

[tepid willow]

what I want is cloak's CD to recover from the emerald nightmare nerf

[jolly sierra]

that shit was bis for sigryn MT in legion

[halcyon timber]

yeah and creating tools to overcome mechanics I don't think is appropriate when it isn't necessarily our tool kit doing it.

well like dependency on items / legendaries etc instead of the class tools to do so by talent trees and normal means. SL was a huge step into the toy box department and that isn't fun man. A lot more satisfying when our class does the damage instead of some ridiculous trinket.

[languid ravine]

I love lobbies where I go 2-4 after playing GROSSLY better than everyone else, because some Ret pressed his two main skills

[tawny kestrel]

sometimes it do be liek that

[jolly sierra]

me

[gleaming pawn]

that's just Rogue in a nut shell

[jolly sierra]

i literal did juggling to try to kill a dh in 2s once

was almost successful

then the fucker burst and in 3 seconds he kills me in a blade dance

XD

[tawny kestrel]

https://tenor.com/9jz6.gif

[jolly sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/speed-run2-gif-19781006

[rotund fulcrum]

Started doing some outlaw shuffle and was 3-0 in a lobby and someone left 🥲

[jolly sierra]

funny

[rotund fulcrum]

Do you guys follow reroll rules or just run take your cut and reroll off cd lol

[jolly sierra]

fkn paladins

the guy called me trash and to fuck me

those rets

[tepid willow]

I feelycraft my rerolls

if I feel like I need to, I do

[tawny kestrel]

only one worth keeping is broadside

that shit is crazy good

[gleaming pawn]

^^

[stoic spruce]

I somehow rolled all the buffs and I felt like a GOD. It had to have been magic.

[languid ravine]

guys I think Outlaw is secretly trash, it cant even beat 1800 lobbies with 1400 healers against boomies who dont even cyclone

[tawny kestrel]

outlaw aint trash

[stoic spruce]

It's comfortably middle of the pack

Only thing about it that's S tier is the fun :)

Poor priest life swapped when I had a juiced pistol shot proc and I shot that mf in the back of the head.

[stoic spruce]

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii have become perfectly mid (comfortably numb from pink floyd)

[halcyon timber]

Solo shuffle is a terrible science experiment

Its a good idea but people make it miserable.

[stoic spruce]

I seen you in a bg the other day

[stoic spruce]

you think outlaw and spriest would go together?

[rotund fulcrum]

Yes I’m 3s

In*

[tawny kestrel]

its fine but not the bnest

best*

[stoic spruce]

I'd normally run unholy with it but I dont like this unholy

[rotund fulcrum]

Everything is just better with a boomy

🥲

[jolly sierra]

found a way to spot bots in outdoor

if they are multipicking

and the guy doesn't moves at all

from different servers

those 2 are bots

100%

[queen geyser]

What would you say is the best, if you don't mind me asking?

Don't feel like Outlaw has much anti-synergy for any given class though

[potent pivot]

what

[languid ravine]

its not the people making it miserable, its the obviously bonkers matchmaking "system" that allows for every single kind of nonsensical imbalance you can have in WoW and this shit happening in 80+% of all games is what makes it miserable (and that you dont even get spare conquest for 2-4 games too)

[potent pivot]

are they just dead on the ground or what?

[halcyon timber]

I dig man, yeah it's def rough.

[languid ravine]

same as battlegrounds, why not give like 10-20 conquest if we have to be stuck in there for 5 to 20 minutes wasting our time completely

especially the epic ones

[halcyon timber]

that's a really good point honestly

probably a reason, and not a very strong one at that.

[stoic spruce]

god unholy is so unfun

even when it was bad, outlaw is more fun

[halcyon timber]

Why is it unfun? (Honest question)

I hear mixed things from dks

[stoic spruce]

All the fun stuff is nerfed by 50% and the "best" build is so weird to look at

The damage distribution went too far one way

Did you know abom limb still makes people panic? It does no damage

[winter seal]

First night of pvp this season got to 1600 as assa in about 35 2’s games.

1800 might happen after all

[lucid citrus]

is it better to do double sword instead of sword/dagger for outlaw?

[potent pivot]

technically dagger OH is slightly better

[marble oasis]

I honestly hate when it's like that.
same for sword in sub offhand.

like knowing i'm in theory doing less damage for a cosmetic thing is annoying but having two dagger or two giga sword/maces whatever just feels so much better

[potent pivot]

well as either spec, the difference hardly matters at all

imo you're perfectly fine running 2 of the same if that's what you prefer

[jolly sierra]

my bad, those 2 acted like i said above

forgot to describe

[safe turret]

isn't the only thing dagger offhand does now is poison proc rate which is 100% irrelevant for outlaw, mastery and energy procs are normalized

[potent pivot]

how is it 100% irrelevant exactly?

it's more dmg

[safe turret]

wound poison damage isn't contributing to a kill on outlaw, like at all

lucky if it totals more than 30-40k at the end of any given match

[stoic spruce]

I thought it was more about an MS to have if your comp didn't have one already

[jolly sierra]

that contributes to a kill if is a perma MS

[stoic spruce]

That's what I thought

[safe turret]

you have perma ms regardless of your weapon type, getting 5 stacks of wound is a non issue regardless of which weapon type you're using, dagger offhand isn't going to give you any sort of advantage unless there is something other than poison proc rate tied to it is all I'm saying, not these days

[pearl warren]

i have dagger offhand but all my outlaw mogs still have matching mh/offhand 🙂

[pearl warren]

you play it for crippling poison procrate

to easily slow off target or slow through pillar with autos

nice try on the argument tho

attack speed, rather

[safe turret]

even so that seems more mental than actualy mattering

not like you don't proc crippling with a very high rate of speed with a sword offhand

[teal imp]

why do i oneshot everything suddenly while leveling? is there an known bug?

no buffs or anything and mobs dont give xp anymore

[pearl warren]

it is noticeable when autoing through pillars (when you can’t get globals off bc they are los)

i am telling you that it is impactful

[inland falcon]

tbh he is right

99% of the pigs here not gna realize that mr nessper

[teal imp]

sry wrong channel^^

[pearl warren]

yeah ik, but im in my bitchin hour (just woke up, saw someone spreading misinformation to my roguebros)

[inland falcon]

this channel exists for misinformation

[pearl warren]

ight mb

it’s nice for totem swatting too 😐

[jolly sierra]

seems like r1 are our real mods here lol

btw can confirm u are more active here now nessper

[marble oasis]

How? I can’t select a sword to tmog for a dagger.

Same as you can’t tmog a sword to be a dagger.

[pearl warren]

ye trying to stay more consistent here

[pearl warren]

legion artifacts, and there may or may not be some one handers that share models with daggers

[pearl warren]

(current mog)

oh nice just caught my rings are vers enchanted instead of mast, oops hehe

[marble oasis]

I mean sure but that’s not the same thing 😂
Imo legion swords are meh same for the daggers they have sets that fit. But defeats the whole thing.

[jolly sierra]

the problem w legion weps is a than wep designs were mostly done based in their artifacts xdd

tbh loved wod weapons the most

[marble oasis]

Yeh.

Like tons of swords from older expansions that need their era weapons otherwise they look awful especially when mixing and matching resolution changes across the years

[jolly sierra]

yeah agree, we need weapons like ashkandur than updates old models

the wep looks good af in modern era

[marble oasis]

i'm honestly surprised blizzard hasn't used AI upscaling on their older stuff.
i haven't a clue how easy or hard that is. but other games have used it, so artists aren't having to redo things and hoping it captures the old look

[jolly sierra]

dunno, blizzard still doesn't update li li model even when has almost the same age as anduin

they are lazy with 3d models tho

they have a big one w t2 for example

[marble oasis]

yeh true. shame really. as a great answer for anyone who doesn't like the new changes. just give people a toggle just like they have with the player models. i imagine the old models take up such a small amount of storage due to how low res they are xD

[jolly sierra]

if they update all then its done

[marble oasis]

If they redid T2 i would actually lose me shit

[jolly sierra]

XD

[marble oasis]

So many insane sets for all classes. all left to rot such a shame really

[jolly sierra]

we have chances after what they did w ToS tier sets

[vocal charm]

how do we get PvP with Tier set effect?

[pearl warren]

my personal favorite is NEUROSURGEON'S TOOL + some butcher cleaver (idr the name)

1h axe and dagger that share model

and at least the legion thunderfury appearance looks pretty cool with a lot of enchant effects

[jolly sierra]

i rlly like soul eater dagger

that is one of my favorite choices

[marble oasis]

yeh, i just don't get why it matters anymore.

they cited animation issues. yet polearms can be changed into swords like wut.

[jolly sierra]

looks good af w a t3

[rotund fulcrum]

i looked up your armory a day or two ago and was wondering about that haha

[pearl warren]

🤪

i have one rogue thats geared for all 3 specs for raid/keys/arena/rbg

i get dizzy sometimes.

[pearl warren]

mostly bc their code is spaghetti iirc

[jolly sierra]

in bc gear looks like for a clown parade if u wanted to go optimal

[stoic spruce]

form over function imo

[wanton breach]

it did so from the very start, hellfire peninsula questing gear was top notch

[jolly sierra]

ye like that

between vanilla skins, questing greens and other shit

[thick dagger]

Hey guys I was watching a video on the Flag Secret tech build he was saying in the video he has no idea why no one runs it etc but it the comments it said it got nerfed pretty hard … does anyone still run this build and if so do you actually prefer it over Rotten or this mainly just a meme build

[halcyon timber]

Practice what you want to emphasize on. It still works just brought down from 2.5% to 2% mastery.

Anything can be done, you don’t have to fight like anyone else.

[thick dagger]

With that build it just pretty much makes our kill window every 1.5 mins correct

[halcyon timber]

Yep

[broken otter]

Where can I find a list of Subtlety builds for PvP? The #pvp-faq seems pretty outdated.

[jolly sierra]

murlok.io following the purple and orange choices

[broken otter]

Would you drop Premeditation or The First Dance for Weaponmaster?

I'm thinking of dropping Premeditation.

This is my current build - using Murlok:
https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/subtlety/DAPUVQUUFUBChSJEYEBQOUFQVARFCYUSgoUBA

[jolly sierra]

im not sub

idk

[broken otter]

Gotcha. If any decent Sub rogues are willing to look over my talents, and give me some pointers, I’d greatly appreciate it.

I suck, and talent choice feels like rocket science lol

[halcyon timber]

Weaponmaster isnt reliable to drop those but def take either or

It procs “sometimes” heh it’s just supposed to be a cool bonus for once in a while

[broken otter]

What do you mean by either or?

If Weaponmaster is meh?

[halcyon timber]

Id weigh if you prefer one or the other. Realistically you can have all 3

Or if you want to trade for something else, it’s up to you.

[broken otter]

Okay. I think I'm just going to stick with the build I linked then, I guess.

I hate playing w/o Premed tbh, and The First Dance seems pretty nifty.

[halcyon timber]

Premeditation is a great tool as old as time

Just try stuff out and find what you like / dislike. There really isn’t a wrong answer here. (Within reason)

[broken otter]

Word. Thanks for your feedback. I really appreciate it.

[halcyon timber]

No sweat man

[broken otter]

I notice you're playing Gloomblade over Secret Technique.

[halcyon timber]

Yes sir

[broken otter]

I've heard of the Gloomblade build, but I haven't tried it, - though I definitely am curious about it. Can you elaborate on its playstyle vs Sec Tech?

[halcyon timber]

I don’t like gimmicks and i dislike backstab being forgotten are my 2 reasons

Just personal preference and slightly different smoke em style.

[broken otter]

Does it just equate to more sustain?

[halcyon timber]

Ive been lazy lately not queuing and life is busy so

Eh depends

If you have blades up and lingering you can slam

Everyone has their own preference . I tend to just pick crap that works for me.

Done plenty wothout macabre too and going into sepsis + 6 second dance + secret strategem .

A lot if weird shit can be done. Deoends how the talents get changed in 10.2 though

[broken otter]

Word.

It's alot to wrap my noodle around. I think I'm gonna stick to the build I posted, and just try to learn the fundamentals first, before I start sampling other builds.

Thanks for the input

[halcyon timber]

Yeh man, im driving to the store but ill help w questions in a sec

A lot of “it depends”

That’s a good build you have, standard stuff man

[broken otter]

Word.

[halcyon timber]

So what was you question again?

There’s a lot of scenarios where depending on what the enemy is doing and what you’ve got at the time is really key. I pick diff stuff because i think differently about situations and i just build according to what works for me because i use stuff like pv in different ways to get the same results. Play how you want in the end and just adapt.

[outer sky]

How are rogues in arena this season? What spec is best?

[jolly sierra]

they are meh to ok compared to another classes and the average player

sub is the best one atm

[open wedge]

Idk. I don’t play rogue much but here lately I’ve seen some outlaws being really freaking good and annoying

[stoic spruce]

B)

[halcyon timber]

All 3 can do well but your team fs up and you’re stuck in recovery mode

[stoic spruce]

So true bestie

[halcyon timber]

Or if they dr the crap out your stuff

XD yeh man

[jolly sierra]

the fkn warrior or dh DRing ur stuns or the dumbass drood cycloning ur kill target

[halcyon timber]

jUsT dO dAmGE rOgUe

[jolly sierra]

wHy aRE u cCinG rEeeeEEEEee

[tepid willow]

if rogue good.. why not top damage? and also top CC? and solo carry me?

I am very smart

[halcyon timber]

2023 and mfs still trinket sap or use adaptation then ree forever.

NErf sAp , they did. Can’t nerf anymore man .

Meanwhile a drachtyr tea bags everyone while deep breathing and does 2/3rd a teams life.

[jolly sierra]

wHy u cANt dO mORe dMG thAn tHe baLAncE rEEEEEEEEeeeeeE

[stoic spruce]

Shoutout to that healer that I wouldn't let them play the game

He did not like that

But I did

[jolly sierra]

agree had guys like that

just trolled him w quaking palm then kidney for the hahas

[stoic spruce]

Bro its like

I'm trying to kill your guy

Stop healing

Hellooooooo

How can one be so rude?

Smh

[halcyon timber]

Yeah would be a shame if a dagger went between their ribs

[thick slate]

Bro ive watched the 2v2 tourney yday and i gotta say, Howton is a legit beast on Sub

He plays it like no other

I dont know who won the tourney at the end i went to bed

But there were mostly rogue and ww teams

Drdaggers and trimaz on outlaw, alainx on assa, howton on sub

Some random ass noob sub rogue aswell

[halcyon timber]

Inb4 rogue nerfs for tradition each season

10.2 notes will have people exploding with taco bell diarrhea just because class tree got changed

[thick slate]

Reworks are never bad

and they almost always make a spec op for some time

not a single spec became worse after its rework

cough sp, ret, mage

[minor cape]

if we can consider the thing that happened to frost dk the same patch they made UH insane

this season

a rework

then it happened lol

[thick slate]

Nah thats barely a rework

fdk needs changes from the ground up

to be considered that it got reworked

[minor cape]

fdk needs to be deleted so i dont get tempted to play it for being edgy

😎

[thick slate]

you can go DH instead. Higher levels of edgyness and i heard they got buffed quite nicely this coming reset

[minor cape]

i do have a dh but dh's edge is not that cool

[thick slate]

but your scars bro

[minor cape]

i wonder why dh has an infinite pillar of frost analogue

and why tf would they buff dh

[halcyon timber]

The reworks are solid but definitely wondering how much they are allowing our guy to touch stuff.

Tuning is def expected and people are on meth if they think we will go untouched if things are solid.

[thick slate]

I believe we will be in an amazing spot after the reworks since historically rogue has always been very good in all content

[halcyon timber]

Agreed, hopefully all voices are heard and a healthy selection of talents are available. I do have faith in our guy, he’s a dang good man.

[cursive umbra]

are you still able to tell which BM pet is the "real" pet by looking at their focus bar? or is there any other easier way

120 vs 100 focus (so it was in SL?)

[halcyon timber]

I just use a name plate trigger for their buffs and it displays a buff over their head to show that’s the main dude (elv / tidy plates / plater for reference).

[cursive umbra]

yeah i dont fancy name plate triggers cuz i find it to messy 😦

[halcyon timber]

Yeah i turn on the stuff i want to see and disregard the rest

Like specific things through filters i mean

[languid ravine]

I m losing solo shuffle even while leveling

[marble oasis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noROWeKSp8Q
He did it!
could be perfectly timed for the buff coming this week to assa's damage.

[languid ravine]

Industry Standard Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing game "World of Warcraft"s Dungeon group assembly working perfectly, as you would expect

[wary spire]

That's a viel of Zeit.

[tawny kestrel]

well youre obviously qd up for a dead expansions dungeons and u didnt press the button to widen your search

so wouldnt worry about it

[languid ravine]

like I said its working perfectly, of course I am not worried about malfunctioning at all

[tawny kestrel]

[languid ravine]

also besides, that button never shows up for me

when queueing shadowlands at least

[minor cape]

it shows up on 10+ mark

10 min +

[obsidian pulsar]

The game is dead almost all brackets besides raiding and m+ are just nowhere near playable it’s not fun

[cursive umbra]

this is the sad truth, just a few of us believers out there thinking that the numbers cant be real and its all haters saying its dead

but the fact is that it is dead 😦

[stoic spruce]

Need more rewards that are more achievable outside of shuffle

[minor cape]

i played an actual dead mmo game - wow is fine

[stoic spruce]

was it DnD online?

[minor cape]

nah it was swtor

[minor cape]

tf does that exist

[stoic spruce]

Yeah

It's pretty dead lol

[teal silo]

Who is 'our guy's?

[thick slate]

Asmongold

He’s working on rogue pvp tuning

[marble oasis]

i mean we don't have a 'guy' as multiple people work on each class.
but the 'guy' everyone thinks is the sole rogue designer is Realz.

He'll be focusing on pve primarily most likely. as that is where the biggest problems are. then pvp will most likely be not super affected in how we play honestly.
but we'll see as soon as PTR for 10.2 is up

[teal silo]

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-forman-debra-jo-rupp-laugh-meme-hysterical-laughter-lol-gif-24893555

[stoic spruce]

I'm always excited for new patches. New talents or whatever.

Dk rework??? >.>

[jolly sierra]

venruki

[nova viper]

sexooooooooooooo

[jolly sierra]

SEXOOOOOOOOOO

[nova viper]

my booooy!

[jolly sierra]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j6L1j4YbP-U

[wary spire]

Venruki thumbnail be like "wowo peepeepoopoo UNALIVE heres why "

[jolly sierra]

"IM IN CHARGE OF ROGUES REWORK AND WILL DO THE BEST THING FOR PVP"

[nova viper]

No need to complain. Every player of a class complains about other classes and that's normal. Rogue's problem is that for relatively "average" players (and I don't mean Venruki) he's very unpleasant to play as.

[jolly sierra]

rogues are noob slayers

that is the reason they hate us

[wary spire]

Wait I thought we mainly complain about our own class being shafted.

[jolly sierra]

and cuz we assault ppl in outdoor

[wary spire]

Dat we do hehe

[jolly sierra]

at least for me the main complain is no info about our dev here

in this channel

considering he was a very good pvp rog back in the day

and as a pvp designed spec from a start there is no way to dont consider our word there

[halcyon timber]

General term but yeah the others here caught you up. Not cool to bring his name up all the time though and have people reee everywhere.

[wary spire]

True. Wen does 10.2 ptr releases again?

[halcyon timber]

Sept 5th or whatever is 10.1.7 so shortly after that. Historically this expansion, its been a week or 2 into the new patch.

[jolly sierra]

this is the true enemy

even for us fellow rogues, cuz this bastard will spit on anybody and act edgy without reason

or like this

100% chaotic evil, dont trust him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRqzMiX4q-A

[marble oasis]

true enemy you sure?

I will say Captain grims videos always hit the spot

I will say i have enjoyed female night elf in pvp.
the laugh is just so infuriating to listen to especially after you die.

[teal silo]

he is a ninja, hiding in the shadows

the unseen blade

[jolly sierra]

100% cuz the bastard will try to beat you in a duel if u are horde instead

he doesn't care about factions

[marble oasis]

uhm

am i dreaming?

@jolly sierra you somehow bribed the tuning department or has MUD got into their server room?

[jolly sierra]

was MUD, im just a humble cultist

[marble oasis]

Arms is going to be gigabusted what are they thinking o.o

[jolly sierra]

they indirectly increased the overall damage doing that

imagine bladestorm + unhinged + sharpen blade every min

arms is S tier confirmed

[marble oasis]

yeh o.o

Like sure they've reduced Avatar by 5%

but then bladestorm was already getting a 20% increase but now that's 70%??????
Ms from 10% to 35%
Made smash less important so harder to play around their 'burst'
and execute does more damage now not to mention higher deepwounds damage also means more healing from talents

[wanton breach]

hell yeah, spinny bois are back

[marble oasis]

it's a bit difficult to understand what they're actually doing given these two sets are going live tomorrow as they said "additional"

[jolly sierra]

beyblade meta

[marble oasis]

Maybe this is to counter how strong healers are? as they are buffing a lot of specs currently

[wanton breach]

I'm just glad whenever arms is better in pvp than fury

[marble oasis]

^^^

[wanton breach]

I miss overwatch pvp talent though, RIP sweet prince

[marble oasis]

Honestly melee needs to have it's teeth back. this caster heavy meta is just bad. always is

[jolly sierra]

agree

lets see how tf will behave arms in this weeks

but im sure im going arms against casters if this goes fine

just hate them

[minor cape]

im glad whenever the opposite is true cause fury dies in a kidney

when anything that dies in a kidney is meta im happy

[tepid willow]

yeah you're living in a nightmare

[jolly sierra]

now we can tell

warrior is our savior for fuck the caster meta

all pray for those dumbasses

[tepid willow]

faceroller supremacy inbound

[marble oasis]

i wouldn't even be mad if that happened honestly. nothing worse than other the classes in the game being auto trash just due to how casters are.

[jolly sierra]

yesterday i got fucked by 2 fire mages doing ping pong w my monk

trolling me w tps and novas

new meta

[halcyon timber]

Illegal af now for us

[languid ravine]

I m glad they put a map marker for people who dont know where the upgrade furnace thing is

wait did they remove the marker? where the fuck is it

[halcyon timber]

No clue i just memorized the cubby hole for it

[stoic spruce]

THEY BUFFED PROT LMAOOOOOO

I actually love that

[halcyon timber]

XD

[stoic spruce]

Prot warr is so fun

[jolly sierra]

think they doesn't care anymore

and buffed the powerhouses to do something

[languid ravine]

dang I gamba'd on my hunter: 4 out of 4 usable items

[halcyon timber]

The more people are pissed at other classes, the less they should be on ours. /shrug

[languid ravine]

there is DKs at 1800 who press their asphyx ONCE every 3 min

you have been warned

[jolly sierra]

what is a stun?

[stoic spruce]

I think its that thing that summons ghouls and does big dam

what the fuck is the deal with alliance healers?

[jolly sierra]

what happened now?

[stoic spruce]

they dont heal

I literally have to stop attacking and stand right in front of them and spam q and e to get heals

unless every single alliance healer is new

[jolly sierra]

wtf

[stoic spruce]

I love when theres no communication

buff feint

does this imply we eat the healthstones?

[jolly sierra]

seems like

[nova viper]

true og set

[jolly sierra]

13 yo rogue player starter pack

[nova viper]

yea

13 yo

in 2004

xD

[jolly sierra]

XDDDDDDDDDD

[nova viper]

i have this set!

and i have only 22 yo

[jolly sierra]

u are lucky

im 27 yo

[proven field]

How Assa looking; 5% going to do anything?

[gleaming pawn]

It was already decent to good, now it does a bit more damage than before

[proven field]

how about in RBGs? I havent played my rogue in a while but I just am not crazy about sub

[jolly sierra]

decent in damage tbh, but still needs to reinforce its endurance

[night gazelle]

Do Gouge and Blind remove DoTs? I have been avoiding rupturing the healer in SS so I won't break my own incaps later but realized mb i don't need to do this.

[halcyon timber]

only blind

gouge will not my friend, Dragon's breath will from a mage and polymorph as well as stuff like scatter shot from a hunter. (for comparison)

[jolly sierra]

gouge doesn't remove dots

but if u for example play pandaren and use the racial equivalent

it does

[night gazelle]

Thanks y'all. So if I use rupture my own bleed ticks will break my gouges but not my blinds?

[gleaming pawn]

yes

[night gazelle]

Thanks!

[halcyon timber]

yes indeedy stormy

[proven field]

man exsang being 3 mins is a goddamn buzzkill

[jolly sierra]

heh

[gleaming pawn]

it'll probably (hopefully) be something like 1min after the rework

it was never supposed to stay at that CD in the first place

they had to temp nerf it with the promise of getting looked at again

and then it just didn't

[winter seal]

It’s currently broken regardless

As in doesn’t function properly

[jolly sierra]

nobody in his sanity will use that shit w deathmark anyways

just w a reduced cd should be ok

and yeah, they said if it performed like shit they would think about tuning it

but nothing lol its still op af it seems

[gleaming pawn]

it was admittedly broken as hell with a 45sec CD

[jolly sierra]

yeah

but was also nerfed in expire speed

so w 1m cd should be ok tho

3m is excessive

[proven field]

so wait exsang doesnt work?

[winter seal]

Deathmark doesn’t duplicate the sped up bleeds

[jolly sierra]

does work

but like tony said

it doesn't interact w DM

but who cares

[proven field]

does it dupe them at original speed or just ignore them entirely

[jolly sierra]

ignore

[proven field]

oh shit so never use both together

[jolly sierra]

even before this was a bad idea

to do that

[proven field]

because it just eats into DM?

[jolly sierra]

yeah

it speed up the DM expiring too

[proven field]

hrm shit no wonder no one is taking exsang

[jolly sierra]

if u use it before u will get faster expiring and normal timing DM

but still a bad idea

[winter seal]

The duplicated bleed will be normal speed and you’ll be reapplying during dm

[jolly sierra]

i pick that shit by myself just as another burst window

nothing else

[proven field]

no love for kingsbane anymore?

It was so fun in legion

[jolly sierra]

i used it in prepatch

cuz we hadn't enough points for DTB

so was the only "viable" capstone in that moment

[gleaming pawn]

Kingsbane died the second they moved it to share a node with DTB

it was kinda fun before that though

[gleaming pawn]

wait, you got banned?

[potent pivot]

[jolly sierra]

nah, its from a reddit post

dont worry im not the one which insults ppl in SS

what the heck

[toxic yarrow]

Same shit happened to me called a Druid an idiot got reported for abusive chat lol caught a 2 week ban

[jolly sierra]

OOF

saying shit like that is like playing russian roulette

i've been lucky, one time i called the R word to a priest which forgot to use his defensives after he started angry whispering after losing a round

the last one was today tho

but was very mild

a guy trolled me a round

and i just said "CUBE?"

yeah, better take a breath w this stuff and don't say anything

[toxic yarrow]

Just gonna turn off chat lol

[jolly sierra]

yeah

yesterday got a guy which insulted me hard in outdoor w his ret cuz i defended myself against him and camped him hard

then in the last one think make him crap himself

tossed a blind then said "meh"

and the guy just ran away outside the no faction zone

dude touch some grass

[thick slate]

who actively duels a lot here and can tell me what's better between sub and outlaw ?

seeing as how outlaw is gaining a lot of popularity

could it also blast in duels ?

and are ppl running double fang embellishment as outlaw?

[gleaming pawn]

equal skill, Sub should beat Outlaw in a duel

Outlaw dueling other classes, entirely depends on your opponent, and the rolls you get

[thick slate]

i seem to struggle mostly against warriors

since their passive tankiness seem to be really strong against our goes

as Sub atleast

and we dont have consistent pressure

its just farming till secret tec

[languid ravine]

1400 rating fury warri kicked me 0,05 sec after I start eye beam 3times in a row

sus

yep, keep an eye out for auto-kick hacks it happened everytime

[teal imp]

Luckily tommorow this doesnt happen anymore

[marble oasis]

How’d you work that out?

It can still be kicked just doesn’t mean they’re unable to use everything else when certain talents are picked.

[languid ravine]

you telling me they remove cheating from the game tomorrow?

[teal imp]

Dev in DH discord said otherwise. Can still be stuned, knocked etc. but not kicked

Or im super stupid and missread it

[marble oasis]

Then their wording makes zero sense.
If they meant that it would have said .
Is no longer interruptable

[teal imp]

Wording is weird yeah

[marble oasis]

They specifically stated spell lockout effects. I.e the silence that happens when you get kicked in a school. Like Frost locked for 5 seconds etc.

[teal imp]

I know that is how i read it first too

[marble oasis]

The issue was picking a talent that changed all damage to chaos meant having eyebeam kicked stopped you casting anything that did chaos dam which is a massive oversight

[teal imp]

I dont recall the rogue dev name but he said in the dh discord its not kicksble

[marble oasis]

If they have indeed made it not interruptable it’ll get it’s damage massively nerfed. As it’s busted if a full cast goes off.

[teal imp]

Eyebeam gets nerfed

[marble oasis]

I mean losing the 16% amp is something but not a lot.

When currently you can reduce it by 80% by kicking after the first tick

[teal imp]

True

[marble oasis]

I just hope they have considered the implications of removal of counter play.
I’ve the same issue with monk’s fists mega damage and stubs so it’s far worse than dh eye beam

Then again they’re making arms warrior literal bayblade gods and that has no counter either 😂

[teal imp]

I dont know i like metashifts. But i dont like super busted shit ofc. Will see how its plays out

[languid ravine]

would you say you prefer metamorph over metashift?

[minor cape]

methadone

[teal imp]

^

[twin burrow]

This game is a joke. I love being addicted to low quality things

[thick slate]

Methalmine

[stoic spruce]

reminder that all sub rogues are trash people who dont deserve homes

all of them

no exceptions

0

[thick slate]

From which discord did they send you?

[marble oasis]

It's not from discord. it's from all the sub rogues that push his shit in during pvp 😛

He's a fact combat rogue after all 😉

[stoic spruce]

2 vanishes on CDR and a trinket is so garbage

I dont ever want to hear how sub underperforms ever again. 4 years from now, I will hold this against sub.

[surreal barn]

When you have a kid I hope he comes out as a sub rogue to you

[stoic spruce]

Nah. He'll be an Arms warr chad

[pastel burrow]

rogue's had the 10 year long stunlock held against them since classic, what's one more for the list

[stoic spruce]

His playground will be the gym. And his bedroom the library.

Tank spec levels of annoyance.

yeah nah fuck yall

https://psychcentral.com/blog/how-to-open-up-to-therapist-and-be-honest here yall go

[minor cape]

okay fuck you too then

👺

[stoic spruce]

I'm sorry friend

But I'm a man of my word

No exceptions

[fading blade]

Obviously you’re the one that needs therapy bud

[minor cape]

Popo played uhdk we should all shame him for that

pre removing abomb

cause there is no forgiveness for playing a pet class

[stoic spruce]

Just press vanish

You'll have it back in 30 seconds lol

[minor cape]

30 seconds?

my man there are two charges

[stoic spruce]

That's an exaggeration

[minor cape]

[stoic spruce]

Aoe gouge when?

[minor cape]

wont even need 30 seconds

aoe gouge aint something you would want i think

[stoic spruce]

Ofc not

But it sounds like something blizz would add

[minor cape]

i might take it into melee cleave lol

[stoic spruce]

Put it in outlaw tree

Sub is already blessed enough from outlaw

[minor cape]

more like fan of gouges

[stoic spruce]

Lolol

Imagine

[minor cape]

blizzard when you dont play a build that revolves around subs aoe: 😡

[stoic spruce]

Does feint have a half gcd or something?

[stoic spruce]

blizzard when assa:

[minor cape]

pretty sure feint has a full gcd

if im wrong then cool i learned smth new

but pretty sure its just a gcd

[stoic spruce]

it feels faster than all the other buttons so idk

[minor cape]

🤪

[stoic spruce]

so wacky

well servers are down

what now?

[minor cape]

therapy

[stoic spruce]

but I dont play sub silly

[minor cape]

noone needs therapy more than an outlaw player

[stoic spruce]

arg matey

bro

I had a dream one time where they went REALLY deep into the pirate aesthetic and it was done right. Ugh it was so fun.

it could have a 2h weapon and it had abilities like DFA but better

it was so fluid

[minor cape]

i had a dream one time where someone cut off my arm

[stoic spruce]

I had a dream I got shot in the head

but I lived

and I was dizzy all the time

[minor cape]

lol must have been pistol shoot

took off 3% of your health

[stoic spruce]

lmao

yeah

he took my brief case and shot me

[minor cape]

this would be a type of dream you get when you drank 8 beers prior to going to sleep

but also you would be inside the game and have to fight the arena yourself

and then you wake up at 4 am dehydrated

[stoic spruce]

great time

[stoic spruce]

also im straight edge

[minor cape]

like the hardcore punk straight edge or just not drinking

🤪

[surreal barn]

For a while I thought straight edge meant you cut yourself

With a straight edge razor

[minor cape]

nah thats the emos

[stoic spruce]

no alcohol, tobacco, etc.

[minor cape]

i meant like would you beat a kid for smoking a cig on a local punk bands show

cause thats straight edge

🤩

[stoic spruce]

I would beat a kid, yes.

[languid ravine]

Straight edge is just veganism for posers

there I said it

[minor cape]

it aint veganism

its when you dont do drugs alcohol or tobacco but you are also a massive dick about it if someone else does

which i think popo isnt

[languid ravine]

yeah and you have to tell everyone about it

[stoic spruce]

no thats called an asshole

[languid ravine]

and not be judgemental or moralistic at all

kek

[minor cape]

thats how straight edgers are

its a subculture

[stoic spruce]

im special

[minor cape]

what you do is just being smart

🫡

[surreal barn]

That’s how crossfitters are

[stoic spruce]

so true

[surreal barn]

I know if someone does CrossFit the second after meeting them

[minor cape]

its an american thing i think

[surreal barn]

I’m sure.

[minor cape]

i havent met a single crossfitter where im at

[surreal barn]

Been in Greece the last week and no mentions of CrossFit lol

[minor cape]

the fuck even is crossfit

i have seen some memes where people do some unholy things in a gym

but still idk what that is

🫡

can i get demon hunter physique this way

[stoic spruce]

I always thought it was intense calisthenics

[wary spire]

Only if you sacrifice everything.

Are demon hunters also straight edge?

[jolly sierra]

why tf vegans needs to say they are vegans all the time?

[unkempt vine]

Just wait till you find a vegan who does cross fit

[vocal surge]

[jolly sierra]

ohhh nooooo

i recall ppl flexing about doing martial arts too

[wary spire]

You can just say that you do martial farts, that usually shuts them up.

[jolly sierra]

hope that works in my language but F

[stoic spruce]

Wait until you see someone who is vegan, does crossfit, and is a cyclist.

[jolly sierra]

fkn cyclists, always using the pedestrian roads for their fucking bikes REEEEEEEE

[waxen meteor]

damn, low rating melee blend is so hard for me again

i did like less than 3 solo to finish 1800 for all alts from AFK at season first week..

and sub gets stuck....

started with 2100+ MMR somehow and kept losing...

[jolly sierra]

OOF

damn that is harsh

[waxen meteor]

I even finished with blue gear hunter

don't think i even read all skill names

[jolly sierra]

they got buffed hard today in US

dunno why, but im going warrior this week

so i can do my part to fuck caster meta

[proven field]

go heavy RF MM then

its the ronco rotisserie of spells

https://tenor.com/view/ron-popeil-set-it-and-forget-it-set-it-forget-it-showtime-rotisserie-gif-19856802

[worn sleet]

any burst outlaw build ?

[jolly sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/beyblade-free-gif-20797825

warrior w reset

[potent pivot]

Outlaw isn’t really the spec you want to play if you want burst

[gleaming pawn]

there's no such thing as burst

[proven field]

sub if you want to ruin their day, assa if you want to trick them into dying and outlaw if you want to make them indirectly hate fury

[pearl warren]

100k ambush into 80k dispatch isnt burst? 🤨

[gleaming pawn]

not in the sense of how any other class/spec describes burst

[rotund fulcrum]

Does timestrike do anything in PvP? Not that I even have a nick of time for pve 😣🥲

[jolly sierra]

in PVE it simmed for very little

doesn't make a change tho

[tepid willow]

I have a build that can give outlaw burst but it's not very APM dopamine-inducing of me

depending on class I've seen normal hit dispatch do 70k

[proven kayak]

im really bugging to resub to take elite set are queues fast or still 45mins + ?

[pale storm]

I was getting 10-15 minute Qs yesterday as sub around 1950mmr SS

[proven kayak]

ty i think its good

lower rating must be faster i guess

[proven field]

Burst is hitting 100-200k dps and dumping 1M dmg on someone in a go imo

nutty stuff like this is what outlaw has to contend with

[rotund fulcrum]

10k dot tick nerf disc priest

[proven field]

truly the roundest of all the priests

here, to cheer you up - a destro banishing me:

literally my char woke up in Tanaan Jungle helping Khadgar escape the orcs of Draenor

[halcyon timber]

Yeah chaos bolt is dumb

[exotic dove]

Anyone play Assa yet are the buffs noticable or meh?

[halcyon timber]

Seem to be doing well /shrug

Wouldn’t know though

[pearl warren]

may or may not be undefeated in 2v2 this week

[exotic dove]

Oh so the buffs did well then nice lol

[restive hemlock]

Or he's 1:1

[jolly sierra]

im getting the former tier for ww in HC and the 2k4 glow

but need one of those epic books to get it

why tf the monk elite set for this season is so ugly

[proven field]

Ass boys do you guys run tempest?

That should say assa but that works

I gave up on exsang and double poisons and it kinda pumps with full zoldyck

[dusky quartz]

u can run the tempest build in a melee cleave lobby / RBG Teamfight game

[jolly sierra]

no tempest

too much work for little rewards

[gleaming pawn]

our man Shadenox just released his guide the other day, and he goes over the two builds he recommends playing for Sin
https://youtu.be/noROWeKSp8Q

[proven field]

Sweet - I actually took his tempest build on some 3v3 stream he posted

[jolly sierra]

are u fucking me i can use an ally tabard as horde?

ohhh this will be funny w ally alts

[gleaming pawn]

we're all friends now, duh

[jolly sierra]

we are holding hands all together

[waxen meteor]

Undercover

[stoic spruce]

Buff disc priest plz

They down bad

Nerf rdudu and mw.

They up too good

[jolly sierra]

disc priest is shit while it goes dry w mana at lightspeed

this set is fkn awful to being the s2 elite set, needed to do changes to make it decent tho

looks like this if is full set

[gleaming pawn]

disc would actually be fun if they leaned all in on the atonement healing and shield playstyle. Instead of this luke warm stupid bs they are doing right now where atonement is weak, shields are weak, and you have to spam flash heal to try and keep up

[halcyon timber]

Yeah they said a discipline priests revemp is soon but had nothing to immediately announce

Revamp*

[broken otter]

How is Assassination feeling with today's buffs? Still ass?

[jolly sierra]

ASSassination

nah dunno im in eu lol

[halcyon timber]

It seems to be doing solid

Saw some today , rogue life isnt looking too hot when others slap tf out of people constantly hard though. Healers wigging out left and right. Dh and mm are on meth

[rotund fulcrum]

Is war cracked too?

[halcyon timber]

Yeah rough . People get topped and go right back to 30%

Priest freakin out left and right

[wary spire]

Haven't tried it but I'd be surprised if after all the war changes you can do shit vs them.

[halcyon timber]

Affliction is spooky too

Double warrior lobbies are hell

Mm double explosives and RF is nuts too

@wary spire yeah had an assassin on my team and we gad to swap and kill a healer to win. Dh flapping his butt cheeks around everywhere and warriors just all over the place

Resto druids seem to be struggling really really bad against warriors and dks this week so far. Having to peel for them left and right

Their new returning treant talent might really help. A bit nutty from vids on ptr stuff

[minor cape]

blizzard when warrior isn't S tier for 20 minutes:

[stoic spruce]

I feel like arms should be big burst with mediocre sustain

[jolly sierra]

ME WARRIOR

[stoic spruce]

imo

yo no way

maybe the reason outlaw didnt get flag is because it created a bursty outlaw and Realz doesnt want a bursty outlaw

#FlagForOutlaw

[stoic spruce]

yooo

you smash?

[jolly sierra]

me smash

[stoic spruce]

thats insane

[jolly sierra]

going like this in this week

[halcyon timber]

He said he was looking at burst options for them (potentially)

[stoic spruce]

damn 😍 🥵

[halcyon timber]

Depends what his team decides in the end of the day

[stoic spruce]

yooo no way

[halcyon timber]

Yes sir dig through it

[stoic spruce]

im easy to please tbh

so I'd probably be happy as long as it doesnt involve KiR or ER

[halcyon timber]

Yeah anything to bridge the gap

I don’t have a boner for being sPecHul

[jolly sierra]

gl this week guys

will be tough af

[halcyon timber]

Likewise man

[stoic spruce]

I wonder if that means there could be a new talent or something

[jolly sierra]

im 100% sure we will have new talents

and maybe swapped stuff

[halcyon timber]

He hinted at new talents

[stoic spruce]

yeah but I mean if we have that hypothetical burst

yeah I remember that one

[halcyon timber]

Yeah should be an option

Im down for options

Not a fan of “no only x”

[jolly sierra]

hope he fucking moves blindside from side

to a more easy accessable slot

[halcyon timber]

To centerish?

[stoic spruce]

a lot of crit talents

[jolly sierra]

above, maybe where is crimson tempest

its a very decent talent

[halcyon timber]

Yeah i think NS / alacrity and a lot of shit is gone

[jolly sierra]

but doesn't worth the spending atm

[stoic spruce]

NS?

[halcyon timber]

Night stalker

[stoic spruce]

ohh

[halcyon timber]

They nerf it every expansion anyway

[jolly sierra]

well alacrity its a filler talent anyways

[stoic spruce]

what takent is that?

[halcyon timber]

Probably baking in some back into us

[jolly sierra]

to go to MFD

[halcyon timber]

Mfd all day boy

[stoic spruce]

these assa talents? lol

[halcyon timber]

Night stalker is class tree talent

8% dmg from true stealth

[stoic spruce]

I gotta brush up on class tree talent names

oh

[jolly sierra]

crap im allergic af

[halcyon timber]

Big fan of lethality staying

[jolly sierra]

almost used all the paper

[halcyon timber]

Deadly brew would have been sick to return but whatever

SF gotta return to assass again

[stoic spruce]

I wonder what talents are getting reworked

[halcyon timber]

So the sim nerds can calm down

[stoic spruce]

SF?

[halcyon timber]

Seal fate

[stoic spruce]

ahh yeah

[halcyon timber]

Tea is cool but prob nerfed or gone too

[jolly sierra]

= (

[halcyon timber]

Moving our gate down will be cool

Im thinking Soothing darkness is probably gone too

[jolly sierra]

i wonder what will they replace for that

[stoic spruce]

yknow, I really like audacity.

HO in general I enjoy

[halcyon timber]

Prob nothing

Recuperator/shrug

[stoic spruce]

blech

did he mention anything about SnD?

[halcyon timber]

Nothing currently but dunno it’s not hard to keep up /shrug

[stoic spruce]

shrug shrug

[halcyon timber]

It’s whatever

[languid ravine]

He Smashecc but also Defecc

[halcyon timber]

Im interested in the making haste useful hints

[languid ravine]

do we have patch notes somewhere

[stoic spruce]

haste outlaw is bae

[halcyon timber]

Potential optionsl talents

He inquired

On wowhead yes

Several patch posts from friday to today i believe it was

For pvp and stuff

[languid ravine]

blizzards own "patch notes" button hasnt been updated since 7/11

[stoic spruce]

10.2 ptr in seven weeks. I'm manifesting it. Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I manifested outlaw buffs

yw

[halcyon timber]

Well sept 5th is patch and

[languid ravine]

I guess "hot"fixes"" =|= patching the game but whatever blizz you do you
https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23973739/hotfixes-august-22-2023

[halcyon timber]

Ptr is like 1-2 wks after

So we def have to test big time

[stoic spruce]

if it happens ahead of time, that means im better than I thought

[halcyon timber]

Yeah , I’m hoping there is some cool shit for all

Id think if this wasnt a big deal, then question’s wouldn’t have been asked

And only the class tree would be touched

[stoic spruce]

yeah I agree

[halcyon timber]

So he def put a lot of love into this w his team

[stoic spruce]

what do you want to see?

[halcyon timber]

As close to cataclysm subtlety as i can make it through options

I give a shit about hate filled gloomblades. I don’t dig rat packing dance and getting tuned around that

So even if lingering moved over to the left and somehow things became consistent with stabbing mfs id be really happy.

I think assassins will get the most changes though, then outlaw , and probably not too much with us subtlety rogues though but that’s ok. How about you man?

[stoic spruce]

Personally I feel like something is missing from assa but idk what. I play the builds in the FAQs and it feels off and idk how to explain it. So I'm hoping someone knows what it somehow is and feels the same way so they can explain it. As for Outlaw, I feel as though there are more valleys than peaks in terms of damage. I love the idea of RtB but I really dont like how you almost always roll one buff during combat. So I'd like RtB to always roll at least two buffs because there are six in total and I think they can be a little more lenient. Slice and Dice I'd like reworked, made a passive somehow, or removed entirely. Alacrity baseline. Maybe cull some of the crit talents.

I also feel like the talents rn dont interact with each other as much as they should/could

Assa feels incomplete to me, for a lack of better words.

[halcyon timber]

Yeah im sure a lot of that is being addressed within reason

It appears a very large scope of feedback was specific and targeted. So something solid is definitely brewing.

I guess the biggest thing is 1 pt nodes where we could build our kits better and such might be where we are heading.

Id still say this is far more flexible than bfa / sl nonsense and a lot more fun.

[stoic spruce]

I think slice and dice just didnt age well and thats why I think assa feels off

[halcyon timber]

Yeah there were some talks the other day about it i believe

Same time, doesn’t phase me any

[stoic spruce]

I also dont like ER because I feel like it ruins the flow but thats just me. I know a lot of people like it but I'm okay with being in the minority,

[halcyon timber]

As shadow techniques from us subtlety rogues and combat potency or whatever it is called absolutely stinks without slice

Id trade energetic recovery in a heart beat though from cataclysm

SL stuff shouldn’t have come over

Just more gimmicks to tune us around instead of core abilities pulling their weight

[stoic spruce]

I think the SL stuff is fine, they just choose the worst abilities

[halcyon timber]

Dunno was all juiced by silly legendaries and cov talents

I hope nights vengeance does come back. I suggested that a few weeks ago

I do like inevitability returning as it fits what i like doing . I don’t really recall anything else from bfa that was cool though.

Hopefully smoke bomb (wild card) somehow makes it to the class tree

[stoic spruce]

RtB returning to being used with combo points would be nice. I thought that was neat.

[halcyon timber]

Who knows man, i just hope the community is mature

[stoic spruce]

Honestly I liked BFA outlaw and assa

[halcyon timber]

And doesnt push personal crusades

[stoic spruce]

yeah it is rogue we're talking about

WoW players have a hard-on for exaggerating

[halcyon timber]

Yeah i imagine some of that is prob looked at and the past like cata / mop

Bfa had some cool stuff

[broken otter]

Hey, quick question for you Assassination Rogues. Am I supposed to keep SnD rolling, or do I kind of ignore it as Assassination?

[stoic spruce]

I typically keep it rolling

[dusky quartz]

u press once

and refresh it with CTC

[halcyon timber]

Cut to the chase should keep it up easy

[broken otter]

Oh, I totally forgot about CttC

[halcyon timber]

Control is king is also nice

That would have been interesting but too strong in the class tree

[broken otter]

I'm running Disarm/Smoke Bomb/Veil of Midnight atm

but I'm just starting assassination in BGs atm

[halcyon timber]

F yeah man

Get at em

[stoic spruce]

the RtB haste pvp talent would be sick to have in the tree

I love that talent