Only acrobatic and gouge. Everything else was available to all 3 rogue specs. Idk about tankiness tho
#pvp
last jasper
sour charm
But for Arenas 2p is worth it as Assa. For BGs definitely not. (Then again why do you play assa in bgs)
wary spire
I used to play assa in BGs... 
last jasper
Why do u even play bgs 😂
tawny kestrel
ofc 2p is worth it??
4 set is always worth it for assa unless the set bonus is quite literally useless
quaint cedar
True, but outlaw made the most use out of Shadowdust. As for the CDR, sub did have CDR on dance before but it's gotten pretty crazy now. Shadowdust combined with 2 vanishes and thief's bargain reducing vanish CD is a LOT of CDR
jolly sierra
i do kek
wary spire
Why do u even play bgs 😂
Coz i wanted to do pvp, but was intimidated by the rated modes. 
wise breach
Yeah, submit a recrafting order with this: https://www.wowhead.com/item=203652/griftahs-all-purpose-embellishing-powder
jolly sierra
fuck it
last jasper
True, but outlaw made the most use out of Shadowdust. As for the CDR, sub did ha...
2 charges of vanish is op, true. But it’s not like they gave something to sub. They just fcked up other two
oblique geyser
How’s the MMR increase ?
quaint cedar
I'm just saying that it feels like sub stole some of our identity. Outlaw is built around CDR as a core feature of the spec. Resetting defensive CDs is also part of that and was why outlaw was so tanky in SL. Now sub has even more CDR on offensives than they did before, plus tons of CDR on defensives. Combined with their burst and run playstyle, this makes them way more tanky than outlaw right now. Sub is very hard to kill when they rotate CDs correctly.
Outlaw needs something unique again, because right now we just have a bunch of things that sub has but worse
potent pivot
Yes, use 4p as well
acoustic junco
Shadowdust was the dumbest thing ever to be allowed in talents/legendaries. It's just too good
surreal barn
I love it
last jasper
I'm just saying that it feels like sub stole some of our identity. Outlaw is bui...
Outlaw still have better cdr mainly. Resetting def cd's was a thing only in sl and they moved it to sub cuz it makes more sense. Since sub do 0 dam outside of dance and do nothing overall. Bargain and phys cloak would also benefit other 2 if they wont suck as much.
quaint cedar
Shadowdust was the dumbest thing ever to be allowed in talents/legendaries. It's...
Agreed. No spec should have shadowdust. That whole idea just needs to die. It made outlaw stupid OP in SL S3, and it's a problem again with sub right now
last jasper
I love it
Same. Freakin fun
Idk how it’s a problem. Sub is playing cdr cuz of tier. Remove tier and sub would spec back to dam build
sharp sierra
hey, does anyone know what can take you out of stealth continuously? As assassin at least, especially after I meld it's impossible to remain stealthed
quaint cedar
Outlaw still have better cdr mainly. Resetting def cd's was a thing only in sl a...
Why does it make more sense for sub to have CDR? I'd argue that sub doing 0 damage outside of go's and being a burst spec is exactly why they shouldn't be able to have so many defensives. Otherwise how do you ever die?
languid ravine
Only acrobatic and gouge. Everything else was available to all 3 rogue specs. Id...
idk way back in Vanilla Gouge already existed, and its more of a sub flavour than outlaw because it allows to land BACKstabs into the BACK you know
cdr feels more outlawish, but makes sense for sub too imo
its in the name, cdr is subtle : ^)
quaint cedar
Outlaw needs strong defensives because we are all sustained damage. If we're too squishy we just die without being able to do anything. Sub has burst. They don't need to be tanky.
last jasper
Why does it make more sense for sub to have CDR? I'd argue that sub doing 0 dama...
Cuz cdr build is less burst more consistent dam. And u can’t have both u use vanish for cdr or leave it for defensive.
quaint cedar
Personally I'd like to see sub's damage nerfs partially or completely reverted and then just nerf their defensives.
last jasper
It’s more like u r salty ur spec is not in good shape 🤷♀️
But it has nothing to do with sub
quaint cedar
Cuz cdr build is less burst more consistent dam. And u can’t have both u use van...
I mean if you don't see a problem with 2 charges of vanish on a 1.33 min CD that also reduces the CDs of your other defensives then idk what to tell you
last jasper
idk way back in Vanilla Gouge already existed, and its more of a sub flavour tha...
I haven’t played vanila. But yea, gouge is sub material. U r right
quaint cedar
You're delusional if you think that's fine. SL S3 outlaw was OP and the best spec in the game for this exact reason. Too many defensives, literally unkillable if you know how to play the game
quaint cedar
It’s more like u r salty ur spec is not in good shape 🤷♀️
I can be salty about my spec being bad and still be right.
last jasper
I mean if you don't see a problem with 2 charges of vanish on a 1.33 min CD that...
I told u earlier. 2 charges of vanish is a bit op. 1.33 vanish is available for all rogues. And sub doesn’t use cdr to reduce defensive cds. They use offensively
quaint cedar
Either way my original point was simply that outlaw has lost everything that made it unique, and if we're going to let sub have these things, then outlaw should get something new to make it more unique.
last jasper
https://tenor.com/view/perfect-popcorn-michael-jackson-gif-26271837
Yea, lol
quaint cedar
I told u earlier. 2 charges of vanish is a bit op. 1.33 vanish is available for ...
1.33 vanish is not for all rogues. That is sub only. Wtf are you talking about?
quaint cedar
Lmao. Ok then.
languid ravine
my teammate picking the WORST instead of the second worst target is the only round I win
yay shuffle
last jasper
If u can’t defeat, embrace 😂
languid ravine
is there a 'damage reduced' panel in Details! damage meter? cant find it
actually there is one but it shows like almost no abilities
languid ravine
Either way my original point was simply that outlaw has lost everything that mad...
matey we still got the roll the bones, keep it rolling, dreadblades, blade flurry (and rush) and the stuff with the Pistols
and killing spree
yeah dreadbldaes and KS are useless for exactly NO reason but hey
last jasper
And cdr and -30 blind
languid ravine
and I guess RTB can be useless too
and blade rush can be useless too
and keep it rolling can be useless too
hmm I am sensing a theme here
last jasper
languid ravine
maybe the lead designer for Outlaw is actually a drunk pirate IRL
that is some dedication!
last jasper
Holinka?
jolly sierra
holinka is ded
wary spire
Forever 1500 
quaint cedar
maybe the lead designer for Outlaw is actually a drunk pirate IRL
Would sure explain a lot lol
languid ravine
I swear Elo hell exists, and it is 1600 flat, stuck with Ret Pal, DH, Warrior all on autopilot
jolly sierra
Forever 1500 <:dracthyr_joy2:1002454132952662096>
god
quaint cedar
Yeah I mean outlaw feels really unique from a dps rotation perspective. But like utility wise it doesn't have anything special that other specs don't have.
odd mortar
Yeah, submit a recrafting order with this: https://www.wowhead.com/item=203652/g...
Thank you
quaint cedar
There's no one thing that makes you go, "This is why we bring an outlaw rogue"
languid ravine
would be so cool if they had like a raidbuff "Rum for the whole crew" or something
odd mortar
Ive been playing flag
quaint cedar
Well there was restless crew but that got deleted before DF even went live
last jasper
Ive been playing flag
Still rocking with shield tal?
quaint cedar
Probably a good thing though, sounds like a balancing nightmare
scarlet shell
killing spree does no damage its so tragic
languid ravine
why would it? its not like it has a cooldown or puts you in a dangerous position or anything
you press it to really enjoy the anti-synergy it brings to the whole rest of your kit
sharp sierra
Does 2set on assassin break stealth ?
jolly sierra
yes
sharp sierra
wow amazing mechanic! does the 2pc actually work? I can't find the dmg on details
jolly sierra
is "poisoned blades" or something like that
scarlet shell
assa in shambles
sharp sierra
poisoned edges?? it's like 3% of my dmg when rupt is 20%, that's not 40%
jolly sierra
yeah
topaz cedar
am i the only one who runs dreadblades over KS
sharp sierra
If the 2set bonus gives me extra 3% of dmg it's borderline trash especially if you pay by gtting taken out of stealth all the time
potent pivot
If the 2set bonus gives me extra 3% of dmg it's borderline trash especially if y...
Pretty sure everyone is running 4p as assa
Gotta realize most set bonuses are nerfed by 50% in pvp, 3% extra dmg is still extra dmg
spring bough
decisions today for gear. have helm, neck, ring, and trinket to go. first three spots i think im gonna craft gear to get more mastery vs the pvp pieces. looking like crit trinket it is today
jolly sierra
i'm compensating the mistake w cum boots and thinking in craft another boots or mastery shoulders
to move my tier
spring bough
copped zilch from the vault so went with my first socket of the season
sharp sierra
why do outlaw pvp rogues use axe over dagger offhand?
pale storm
Anyone have the spell ID for fade? Looking to make an alert when priests fade for the immunity talent
jolly sierra
Anyone have the spell ID for fade? Looking to make an alert when priests fade fo...
408558 tho
languid ravine
why do outlaw pvp rogues use axe over dagger offhand?
if Dagger ~ Axe are equal in dps, bigger swing cooldown means larger initial hit, which will be better whenever you have any kinds of downtime
but this is conjecture I got no clue
pale storm
408558 tho
Thanks I’ll try it
jolly sierra
Thanks I’ll try it
u welcome
spring bough
wow was rocking 4 set as outlaw so only around 45-48% mastery and was getting 31k main gauches lol
spring bough
yeah why do i check its like 1.5% total together llol
quaint cedar
Worst part though is that it breaks gouge
spring bough
im like more crit yay nah stack that mastery
austere thorn
i got 2 set from vault (chest and legs) so im using those cuz the stats are nice
i'd drop tier legs if there was vers/mast legs tho
idle coyote
Im ally and another ally killed me in stormwind, can someone tell me how can I kill my own faction?
spring bough
88k dispatch we are cooking over here will never see that again lol
spring bough
am i bugging or didnt they bump combat stamina to 15% stam? tooltip still says 5% on the talent tree lol
oblique geyser
Did anyone figure out how big the mmr increase was
quaint cedar
am i bugging or didnt they bump combat stamina to 15% stam? tooltip still says 5...
No it's working. You have to be in pvp combat though
potent pivot
why do outlaw pvp rogues use axe over dagger offhand?
preference. it doesn't really matter
languid ravine
you sure? seems to me if you get stunned for 2 sec, you ll miss 0 Axe swings as opposed to 0,4 dagger Swings
okay maybe it really doesnt matter now that I read it out loud except for that one in 90 million matches or so kek
another fringe case if you chase something down and you need juuuuust exactly one hit to kill it, more likely Axe pushes HP below 0 than a dagger would
potent pivot
you sure? seems to me if you get stunned for 2 sec, you ll miss 0 Axe swings as ...
yes, i am sure. if you want to get technical, dagger OH is actually better
languid ravine
now you are asking me to demand a chart 😄
languid ravine
yes, so the Blizz devs managed to normalize/equalize dagger and axe output, but forgot poison dps
potent pivot
that has been normalized for idk how long now
been quite a while iirc
poison procs are way harder to normalize
if i had to guess
languid ravine
yeah maybe something weird with bad luck protection
potent pivot
but even in pve outlaw uses dagger OH besides when using certain trinkets/effects
for pvp it just depends what stats you can get etc
the poison is such a small diff
jolly sierra
make him hunched
austere thorn
Need better helmet imo
Was thinking about SL honor helmets but they kinda match with the shoulders/chest so it gotta be something else
And they hide the hair..cant have that
proper heath
Yo guys is orc 10% or 20 in pvp?
jolly sierra
10%
languid ravine
"Warlock class will become available to Night Elves"
ladies and gentlemen it has been a pleasure
see you in the next discord
peace
I guess Nightborne are just going to become extinct
snobby bourgeoix wine sippers had it coming
jolly sierra
F
jolly bear
should I even care about getting my 4 pc?
jolly sierra
dont think so as sub
jolly bear
so mastery is better than 4 pc
wanton breach
im gonna play this mog until they buff outlaw
beautiful, you better get used to seeing that though
wanton breach
Why?
chrome schooner
Gamers
topaz cedar
I feel like nelf is the only fun race
being able to immune stuff is fun, compared to just stun reduction etc
minor cape
being able to immune stuff is fun, compared to just stun reduction etc
velf is fun
stiff mesa
twin burrow
pika played rotten or finality for awc?
minor cape
rotten
cursive umbra
embellishments, do they give more/less depending on what slot you add em to?
minor cape
nah
keen dune
Vision projectors or life bound cap?
harsh steppe
gm
harsh steppe
Vision projectors or life bound cap?
i've seen more caps in the top tier, at least atm
harsh steppe
velf is fun
vElF fOr LiFe GaNG
harsh steppe
i know the feels
minor cape
hyper literally opens pvp chat on random time and says "gm"
harsh steppe
lmaooo yep
wary spire
Yesterday I got fucking humbled by outlaw going 1-5.
nova viper
Yesterday I got fucking humbled by outlaw going 1-5.
Dunno
i dont have dmg
i mean
i cant play all of my spells, use all cc
and evoker smash keybord and do 3x more than me
xD
But i guess
ruby sentinel
new player here, need tips on how to kill sub rogues, feels rlly hard
harsh steppe
lmao
minor cape
that is not the case
harsh steppe
what usually kills me is just constant pressure, and when they use trinket on my burst
minor cape
there are multiple things that make sub rogues life much more miserable than just trying to kill him
for example controlling him on every go
like you see shadow dance on rogue - stun
harsh steppe
yeah but we have so many escapes 9 times out of 10 the reason i die is if the enemy team is focused & has teamwork and focuses me
minor cape
oh thought you meant shuff
but with rmp you go mage and try to controll rogue on go still
ruby sentinel
rogue just stuns me every time they go tho
so I can’t control
feels rlly miserable
wary spire
what usually kills me is just constant pressure, and when they use trinket on my...
That usually that does me in, yep. Also my own hubris, using vanish as 3rd shadowstep if target is low-ish. Rarely, rarely worth. 
topaz cedar
but with rmp you go mage and try to controll rogue on go still
People go mage now in rmp mirrors?
topaz cedar
honestly rmp is so diff now, 60% of frost mage damage is lance, 60% of fire mage damage is ignite, and sub is jank asf, in its design / damage profile not even mentioning cc changes
L xpac
disc shieldbot too L L L L L
minor cape
yeah cause fire is VERY squishy
rn
at least in 2s you go fire always
if playing vs rm
topaz cedar
oh yeah i mean in 2s you're gonna go mage anyway, more disruptive to their setup and less headless chasing, its just lame how the 3s comp has changed over time imo
tribal phoenix
is there any way to get Greater Trophy of Conquest that doesn't require conquest apart from the first one you get per character?
harsh steppe
nope
jolly sierra
Was just 5-1 in a lobby and the MW straight up said I’m not healing the pally
i hate those sore losers
once i discussed with a guy in my ret (he was holy)
he said "imagine not using sac, so useful in this times"
then i said "imagine bop me to trigger my abs"
he said "afk" lol
jolly sierra
then another fucker then was losing as healer straight said afk in a round and left after next match
always the healer
yeah, is pretty good
topaz cedar
i rarely ever see dps go 0-6 nowadays
jolly sierra
usually i go 4-2
topaz cedar
unless the lobby is like truly fucked for them
its usually healers that are the ones going 0-6
jolly sierra
or 1-5 if is lucky enough to have the enemy dps 1 shotted
lucid citrus
anyone knows the mmr changes?
surreal barn
Only done one today
I feel like they changed healer queues
Where lower mmr healers come in higher mmr lobbies
wary spire
I feel like they changed healer queues
Is wait time the same?
surreal barn
14 mins for me
harsh steppe
what cr yall at atm?
untold remnant
With all those BM hunters running rampant. Rogue feels trash man
It's probably the class I hate most
1788
I dropped from 2092 two weeks ago
Just can't play it anymore or something
Maybe I was so bad, that only when it was not nerfed I could play it
surreal barn
If you were 2092 two weeks ago then that was damn good lol
untold remnant
Yes. But I just CAN'T WIN anymore. It is so lame
surreal barn
Hmm
untold remnant
Ever since they buffed BM hunter and I get that or Demo lock in nearly every lobby.. I just can't win
surreal barn
For bm I blow sec tec early to make sure it all hits
untold remnant
It's after burst, pets just eat me. And they can't be kited. How does everyone here deal with the pets?
Cause they always focus me
harsh steppe
get them to pop their turtle asap
surreal barn
What talents you rolling, pvp too
harsh steppe
yah, also use disarm
surreal barn
You can avoid some of the bm’s burst by setting up your kill from the shadow duel on the healer
untold remnant
Rotten, thief+duel+bomb
untold remnant
You can avoid some of the bm’s burst by setting up your kill from the shadow due...
Duel heal, hope the hunter is low, then pop him?
surreal barn
So you try and get that turtle and if you don’t then you duel ~> kidney->blind ~>gouge
Gotta pop the turtle
surreal barn
If you are vs priest and are not undead watch out for their fear in duel
Might have to blind the priest into kidney
topaz cedar
So you try and get that turtle and if you don’t then you duel ~> kidney->blind ~...
just cheap instead
better to kidney the hunter while you're cc chaining the healer
and then sap off the blind
jolly sierra
yah, also use disarm
yeah but not in casters lol
harsh steppe
oh ofc
spring bough
Highlight of my solo yesterday. Went and solo’d the fistweaver off the bat somehow killed him before bubble. He’s on my team next round and goes “the scoreboard popped up couldn’t see” 😂
jolly sierra
wtf
austere thorn
Is there any way to stop that stupid "YOUR ADDONS ARE EXPERIENCING LUA ERRORS..." popup?
harsh steppe
yes
languid ravine
enemy team in my battleground has 4 rogues XD poor guys
surreal barn
sounds like a good time
jolly sierra
uh there are worse ones believe me
surreal barn
Subterfuge and meld is op AF
potent pivot
How?
Google “disable lua errors wow”
There should be a console command you can find
austere thorn
Google “disable lua errors wow”
Thanks
pale storm
nice little 6-4 sessiopns in 2s with my guy @harsh steppe
pale storm
nope 😦
surreal barn
With how easy it is to play around deathmark I bet you it gets changed to flat dmg increase
jolly sierra
look, if vendetta comes back that would fix a lot of problems tbh
topaz cedar
look, if vendetta comes back that would fix a lot of problems tbh
rogue: vendetta
other rogue: cloaks
but yeah i do think vendetta should come back
jolly sierra
vendetta would fix BS with survs and dwarves
and would track fuckers with shadowmeld and subs again
jolly sierra
that guy would be a psychic lol
wary spire
simply shadowmeld the vendetta
languid ravine
does balance druid use 4set? asking for someone who used to be my friend but he s definetily a furry so I ll just give him this info and hope he leaves me alone forever
jolly sierra
why the lizard is talking about rogues devs lol
jolly sierra
does balance druid use 4set? asking for someone who used to be my friend but he ...
owo
languid ravine
why does the lizard think there is a rogue dev
wary spire
If someone says "the devs there, they're just in stealth" I swear to god...
topaz cedar
the devs are there they're just busy stealing milk from the break room fridge
languid ravine
ooooh druid tier is fancy owo
is what I would say but how would I know, you know?
since I don t play lousy druid
disgusting
jolly sierra
tell him to yiff in hell
they said in that thread than blizzard makes everything about devs confidencial to avoid backlash from former quoting they would have
so maybe they are already doing shit but we dont know
also recalled Realz assisting them during beta
i wonder what happens there
languid ravine
my DH mate managed to eat a 260k Touch of karma, how is that even possible?
jolly sierra
he hit the monk way too much
jolly sierra
which rogue lol
topaz cedar
he hit the monk way too much
I mean in their defence they're blind so like
how are they supposed to know when they use karma
minor cape
my DH mate managed to eat a 260k Touch of karma, how is that even possible?
dh go zug zug
languid ravine
can DH reverse magic that?
oblique geyser
Love dhs in solo shuffle. Where they always reset your stun DR
minor cape
Love dhs in solo shuffle. Where they always reset your stun DR
i can feel the pain
jolly sierra
I mean in their defence they're blind so like
what the heck
topaz cedar
Demon hunters aint got no eyes
jolly sierra
Love dhs in solo shuffle. Where they always reset your stun DR
or warriors
jolly sierra
im blind not deaf
tbh when i face something like a drood with thorns usually i karma him and keep beating
to trigger the dot with big dam
minor cape
warrior is not nearly as annoying to play with
topaz cedar
Ill never feel like thorns belongs in the game
its so boring in 2s being forced to swap targets if you have no purge, on a 45 sec cd
wind canopy
is it even possible now for rogues to sap cap or blind cap anymore in rbgs?
surreal barn
No
topaz cedar
and playing something like assa rogue you're gonna get unironically out-damaged by thorns if you try tunnelling it anyway
jolly sierra
thought thorns only worked w direct melee hits
topaz cedar
it does but you have high attack speed even without snd
jolly sierra
REEEEEEEEEEEE
harsh steppe
yah blake is teaching me a lot, super helpful & kind, ty again ❤️
hell i even learned about reagent bags LMAO
harsh steppe
been playing for 2-3 years now w/o a reagent bag
pale storm
Sheesh, playing on hard mode
untold remnant
Well, I guess they DEFLATED the rating, instead of inflating it
untold remnant
I dropped from 2092 two weeks ago
We tanked further. Since the report of 1788 this afternoon I played 1 round of shuffle just now. And got fury warrior, BM hunter, survival hunter. 1-5 it was 🙂 1717 cr we rocking
I think I'm gonna tank all the way back to 1200 from nearly 2.1k two weeks ago
lucid citrus
I think I'm gonna tank all the way back to 1200 from nearly 2.1k two weeks ago
You’re really making me not want to queue at all till they fix it😂
untold remnant
'Caster dominated meta' according to Skillcapped, yet I face melee cleaves or with hunters every round :>
I'm like an addicted gambler. Things are going really bad, yet I want to get it back. But that is not happening atm
wary spire
I also got my new record today!
jolly sierra
I also got my new record today!
got 1 hour 10 min once in this season
untold remnant
Now I get MM hunter, Affli lock adn Destro lock. And looking at a 6-0 coming in
jolly sierra
nice nice
untold remnant
Meh, evoker got random killed. 5-1 then!
surreal barn
I also got my new record today!
My problem is that when that queue finally pops am I even in the mood to shuffle anymore? It’s 50/50 w me
jolly sierra
when i lose a lot in a row i turn into a bot and go auto inside the match
i can win like that dunno how
jolly sierra
sometimes i got back cr like that
but tbh fuck long queues
think they found the string but doesn't know how to fix it as they confirmed a lot of months ago
wary spire
My problem is that when that queue finally pops am I even in the mood to shuffle...
Yep. Literally just exited the queue after i took the screenshot.
gleaming pawn
be part of the solution and play a healer in shuffle, it totally wont make you hate the game and want to quit 🥲
spring bough
think i finally got the rotten rotation down to maximize symbols procs and using the CDR from vanish as well to help keep pumpin. feels good when you get in the rhythm and you dont get hit with any CC during a burst
surreal barn
Yeah one you lose that momentum from perfect cc during your dances it is hard to recover
jolly bear
yall ever wanna take a bath with a toaster bc of solo shuffle queue times? me too
spring bough
nothings worse than going to the bathroom or filling up a water bottle and coming back after a 30 min que wait and its popped and gone lol
i started walking around w a headphone and my phone next to my speaker on live listen just in case so i dont miss a que pop lol
surreal barn
That is smart and sad at the same time
spring bough
gotta do chores sometimes cant just sit here and wait for que to pop lol
jolly bear
had our healer let the enemy kill him in the last round cuz he was mad he kept dying
what a bitch
spring bough
just had a ret do the same thing. somehow he won first game with me and by last round he just laid down and didnt move lmao
jolly bear
yup thats what ours did just sat there and let himself die at the opening
ruby sentinel
when i get into shuffles with rogues
and they type in all caps
DONT STUN THEM
it makes me want to put everything on dr
immediately
spring bough
"dont stun so and so i got them all" yeah okay lol
"you get healer i got this guy" works perfect every time
vocal surge
spring bough
the best is "you havent been interrupting" and i go look at interrupts and i have 6 more than the other dps lol
hidden dome
There are 17 tanks in NA 3v3 who are rated higher than the highest outlaw rogue 🙂
surreal barn
I usually just say don’t touch heals
ruby sentinel
There are 17 tanks in NA 3v3 who are rated higher than the highest outlaw rogue ...
outlaw is banished i guess
surreal barn
Cause imo I can usually do that job better than then and they can still use their one shot macros
vocal surge
"This spec (Outlaw) has a winrate above 50%, surely they're doing alright."
Outlaw unable to go above 2100: "Is this an April Fool's joke?"
hidden dome
outlaw is banished i guess
It is also the same for EU were the first outlaw comes in at 8th place
spring bough
12 second kidney? what did i just read?
ruby sentinel
12 second kidney? what did i just read?
shadow reflection
wod talent
would mirror everything you did
would 8s kidney then reflection 4s kidneys
instantly out of it
spring bough
damn i rerolled DK for wrath thru battle pretty much so i missed a lot of rogue stuff
ruby sentinel
Because he was overtuned twice in 7 years?
no not rlly
just cuz its rogue
not saying it DESERVES to be bad
vocal surge
But because the community doesn't know how to deal with rogue ey?
spring bough
real question is has rogue ever been S tier in pvp
hidden dome
I mean, I do remember those double Outlaw comps in the SL arena tournament
Outlaw was broken at points in the past
but so was every other spec
Hell, it is rare for a season to go by without atleast 2 warlock specs being S tier
vocal surge
That reminds me
Why dont they gut Warlock
They have so many things that it's ridiculous
spring bough
they never have and they never will it is just what it is lol
hidden dome
Because the one pvp dev plays warlock would be my guess
vocal surge
Probably
spring bough
ight can we get some rogue gamers to apply for blizz pvp dev that would be sick
hidden dome
Back when they lowered the saddle requirement down to 1k me and my friends joked that they did it because blizz devs were unable to break the 1.4k barrier.
vocal surge
You know what'll be funny to see?
Blizzard explaining why Shammies and Locks need a buff
When Augmentation Evokers come in to the arena
and they start duping their attacks
hidden dome
I don't even want to think about augmentations evokers
2s is already overrun with double dps comps
Augmentation will fit right in
vocal surge
ngl, I hate fighting Double Druids in 2s
vocal surge
They have the mobility and snare removals to run around Nagrand Arena 6 times
before you can catch up
hidden dome
There is a reason why the top druid heals all have a 85-90% winrate in 2s
A good druid heal is just broken in 2s and has been for a lot of seasons. But since blizz never balances around 2s they are never fixed.
At the start of the season, the top 3 druid heals on EU were all sitting at an above 95% winrate at 2k+ rating in 2s
ruby sentinel
real question is has rogue ever been S tier in pvp
?
vocal surge
Yeeee
vocal surge
I still really hate how we all have to suffer nerfs
because the devs couldnt take a bit of time and read what could happen in PvP
when you mixed Blunderbuss and the Sepulcher Set
or the set and shadowdust
ruby sentinel
trollin lol
ok
spring bough
i liked blunder buss with theo that was so much fun in s3/4
hidden dome
I liked blunder buss when it was our kidney
vocal surge
or tune the combo point generation
hidden dome
best shit ever in pvp
vocal surge
so we werent so bloated combo point wise
jolly bear
sub rogue is trash pls boof
hidden dome
I like to be charitable and as such my theory is that blizz was planning on having the rogue rework out by 10.1.5 and that is why they didn't do any outlaw buffs. But now, maybe due to all the people quitting their jobs, they are unable to meet that deadline.
There was a lot of talking about a lot of blizz staff quitting over their updated home office policy and some blizz devs on twitter said that it would impact the content pipeline
and rogue just got the short end of the stick
vocal surge
Understandable
The way I view it is rogue just lacked the manpower in general even when they were rolling out talent trees and the updates for them in PTR
hidden dome
Yeah, it felt a lot like that
vocal surge
it took rogue so long to even get updates or implementation since we had to share a dev with the DHs
Also Outlaw's feedback was pretty overwhelming i'd imagine
jolly bear
I wish we could use dark brew
vocal surge
since the dev had more conversations in the sin and sub channels than in law's
spring bough
nothing beats vanilla perpetual CC. was so much fun back then chasing HWL. imagine if everything didnt share DR like back then. pvp would be crazy
hidden dome
Outlaw was looking so fun too when they first released the talent tree
vocal surge
Yeah
even at the start of the expac
when most of the classes felt fair
Outlaw was doing really decent
vocal surge
Yeah
hidden dome
there is no nice way to put it
the Fan the Hammer change might be the worst balancing change they have done in years to any class
Nerfing it is one thing, messing with the rotation is another
vocal surge
Honestly they shouldve done that nerf in S4
Blunderbuss was broken for Outlaw's kit
it just dumbed down the rotation to 2 buttons
sinister strike into a finisher
if you got blunderbuss, pistol shot em
no need to do anything else
they had to nerf our core kit just to let Fan the Hammer exist
(core kit as in RTB and Restless Blades)
hidden dome
That is true
vocal surge
if you look at all of Dragonflight rn for Outlaw talent builds
they all include Fan the Hammer
S1 and S2
its that op of a talent
I called it back when Dragonflight was in its PTR
spring bough
i want 3 shots back for FTH so badly lol
id prob play it all the time instead of splitting with sub if it were still at 3 tbh. always full cp when hitting that pistol was so fun
jolly bear
somehow got a guardian druid in my lobby and someone rage quit after 3 rounds
fuck this game
jolly sierra
how tf expect to perform well using a fucking bear
surreal barn
Lul how tf did you get a guardian
jolly bear
idk but i did !!
spring bough
the worst is the paladin tanks only went positive once with them lol
surreal barn
the worst is the paladin tanks only went positive once with them lol
Gotta actually kill the pally
lucid citrus
damn queues taking so long...
odd mortar
yall have any luck finding teammates to play with through out the seasons?
or do you need real life freinds
surreal barn
You guys have friends?
jolly sierra
do u care about finding teammates now SS exists?
jolly sierra
tbh i felt better doing ranked alone
jolly sierra
trolled
jolly sierra
yeah i recall once had to deal with a fucker which constantly left when SS was unranked and had not deserter
just lose his matches and leaves
potent pivot
yall have any luck finding teammates to play with through out the seasons?
yeah, just try to q for 2s/3s and build up over time. as you get better people usually dm you or you can dm others at your skill level etc. another option is also just joining a pvp focused guild for getting started, a lot of people take that approach
jolly bear
thats what ive been doing and its been cool
hazy monolith
hazy monolith
neck
jolly sierra
neck or ring if u wanna a free socket
jolly bear
so a shadowflame crafted necklace?
potent pivot
what's next to upgrade?
Tbh I’d do the trinket first unless you have the thing to put a socket on the new neck/ring
jolly bear
but my rings are already perfect arent they?
jolly sierra
nope
too much versa
u can have a more balanced ring by crafting
and will even bring a free socket
jolly bear
so the ring bound glass or whatever
inner tartan
for outlaw pvp what is better night elf drawlf or tauren
jolly bear
subtlety
jolly sierra
one is the titanic insight and the other one dunno how was called
but there are 2
which are exactly the same
inner tartan
for outlaw pvp what is better night elf drawlf or tauren
any one know
potent pivot
for outlaw pvp what is better night elf drawlf or tauren
N elf or dwarf
jolly bear
for outlaw pvp what is better night elf drawlf or tauren
do you really wanna do that to yourself
inner tartan
LMAO
potent pivot
Spec doesn’t really change the best race
inner tartan
is 10 percenrt damage reduceting or a restealth better
jolly bear
stealth
potent pivot
That’s personal preference
jolly bear
for a rogue?
potent pivot
If you have trouble living/still learning dwarf can be really good to get the hang of things
N elf is a lot harder to actually make a good use of, in comparison
jolly bear
wouldnt it be better to learn with it now as opposed to having to work it in later once he has muscle memory
jolly sierra
i wanna steal NE racial without changing race
potent pivot
wouldnt it be better to learn with it now as opposed to having to work it in lat...
Not really no
jolly sierra
diff folks ig
craft a ring
jolly bear
I will when I get more conquest
jolly sierra
also lemme tell u why neck should be under ring in priority
the blue neck has more balanced secondary stats compared to glad one, even u have already 3 sockets
vs ur ring, with like 1k versa and just a little mastery
jolly bear
true but out of every single piece of gear?
jolly sierra
how so?
jolly bear
no im asking
jolly bear
hold on im in a dungeon
jolly sierra
kk
jolly bear
yeah repeat it
so I am asking out of every piece of gear I could upgrade a ring is priority over it all?
jolly sierra
so I am asking out of every piece of gear I could upgrade a ring is priority ove...
the thing is u have everything almost ok
u miss the pvp trinket, another gloves, the neck and the ring as priority
then u craft bracers, another belt, dunno if another cloak tbh
but the idea is fill every piece where there are not 450 ilvl pieces with bis stats with versa mastery
+3 ilvl in every piece can do a difference ngl, can say that from shadowlands seasons
jolly bear
if I get the conq gloves I can get 4 pc
jolly bear
I mean 40% crit dmg is kinda nice
jolly bear
I capped my vault already
jolly sierra
u miss the pvp trinket, another gloves, the neck and the ring as priority
first this
jolly bear
so I got 3 tries
jolly sierra
then u craft bracers, another belt, dunno if another cloak tbh
then this
well
u have plenty of time
jolly bear
if I knew what murlok.io was when I started this season I'd be way closer to max
this is my first time playing pvp
jolly bear
what language is that
jolly sierra
spanish
jolly bear
what kind
jolly sierra
european
jolly sierra
cuz im assa
jolly bear
why lol
jolly sierra
cuz i like it
jolly bear
sub is 2 good
jolly sierra
im shit as sub
jolly bear
just spam a dummy thats what i did
jolly sierra
not outside shadow dances
jolly bear
outside SD I am pooling and stacking SnD and ccing people
jolly sierra
that is what i do too
jolly bear
and also getting info as to whats going on
jolly sierra
just dot ppl and gouge healer then kidney kill target
but the dmg is not the problem here
jolly bear
i dont bother with rupture unless i have a lot of time until my next SD and i already have SnD up
jolly sierra
im playing fine
jolly bear
then what is the problem
jolly sierra
nothing? u are asking me about my language and going sub
jolly bear
but the dmg is not the problem here
I was referring to this
jolly sierra
I was referring to this
dunno, im just answering u about why im not going sub
jolly bear
I was dueling a sin rogue
and they changed to sub
and then they did it again
and then they were like wtf
and i let them full combo me like a dummy
on both specs
jolly sierra
yeah, sub always wins against assa in 1v1
jolly bear
they ditched sin right there
jolly bear
it took them several times longer to kill me as assassin
and i wasnt even doing anything
jolly sierra
ofc, a duel doesn't matter
any class which can survive by itself will win most duels
jolly bear
I'll try sin again when they makle kingsbane playable
jolly sierra
i wanna vendetta back
jolly sierra
it took them several times longer to kill me as assassin
for example i can bring my ret and crush everything in duels
but in SS can have a difference depending of setups
is not
deathmark is dispellable
jolly bear
u have to be braindead to lose a duel as a ret pally
20 immunities and unlimited heals lmao
jolly sierra
2m wasted by a dwarf or a surv
jolly bear
and 100 shields
jolly sierra
vendetta at least was heavy countered just by inmunities
and had flat increased dmg
this shit is nerfed and dissapear with inmunities and simple cleanses
jolly bear
maybe they should fix that
jolly sierra
it just needs a rework
and they needs to replace deathmark
is just shit
dm was good in S1 cuz u had duplicated wound poison effect alongside the dup bleeds
jolly sierra
its multiplicative not additive
jolly sierra
something like that
but hurted very hard
before its heavy nerfs
well tbh i have decent rating pre inflation then can be better if i got buffed
jolly bear
yeah maybe i can get to 1800
jolly bear
im 1550 or something on my warrior rn in 2s
jolly bear
cuz like i said this is my first season playing pvp
jolly sierra
xd
inner tartan
for outlaw pvp what are our best crafted items
fierce crystal
Do we know whats best for assa as well?
Im actually clueless what embellishment to go for
jolly sierra
i use sporecloak and will use fang weapon
but usually ppl goes w shadowflame patch and infurious
dusky flower
yoo question about these bis crafted shoulders am i usin the item that makes them 450 in pvp on it also? same goes for the goggles?
keen dune
Yes!
minor cape
yo, is signet craftable wout embelish?
should we go signet + ring-bound hourglass
over conq ring + hourglass?
minor cape
i dont want to cause i already have 2 embelished items
🫡
so i was wondering if i can have 2 crafted rings with no embelish for stats
jolly sierra
yeah sure
wanton breach
so i was wondering if i can have 2 crafted rings with no embelish for stats
you can
I'm thinking about makign a second rogue for pvp just to use crafted items properly
wary spire
If we could've just recraft it... 
I got baited by the cum boots.
No boots called cum boots can be bad I thought.
The marketing was too powerful.
vital void
guys , how do you farm conquest without going into rated pvp , im so far behind in gear it is insane how fast i die
topaz cedar
No boots called cum boots can be bad I thought.
new form of trenchfoot discovered in feet of people wearing cum boots
minor cape
guys , how do you farm conquest without going into rated pvp , im so far behind ...
fly around sparks of life zone and collect it from crates and assassins
do sparks quesr
do malicia quest
wary spire
new form of trenchfoot discovered in feet of people wearing cum boots
I have a train of thought I'm not sure I want to be a passanger of.
topaz cedar
I have a train of thought I'm not sure I want to be a passanger of.
likewise,,
vivid images,,
harsh steppe
gm
wary spire
Are you guys excited for awesome rogue changes next week?
steep loom
You misspelled expansion
wary spire
Are you guys expansion for awesome rogue changes next week?
proper heath
What rogue changes
minor cape
Are you guys expansion for awesome rogue changes next week?
he meant "Are you guys excited for awesome rogue expansion next week"
NEW SPEC CONFIRMED
still bloom
Why does everyone in PvP sub run a offhand then 1h?
still bloom
But surely 200 mastery doesn't do more dmg than 30ilvl
wise breach
Oh definitely not, I think people usually run the scalewarden mastery offhand upgraded with Trophies
still bloom
Wouldn't it make more sense to craft a dagger with vers mast then?
wintry dew
wise breach
Nope, it's fixed
With the vault tokens vendor now selling Splintered Sparks, you can get a full spark every week, so could get pretty close to what people run on TR fairly quickly
Might do that on my alt rogue that doesn't PvE
hazy monolith
is that why trill is running offhand dirk?
obsidian pulsar
This is the worst fucking expansion for gearing up all this spark shid making it impossible to play pve & pvp if u play both ure fucked cause u will be behind on gear then other players idk which dev got his head broken when choosing sparks for both and not 1 for each aspect each week to play pve and pvp
hazy monolith
because most of the other pros use slow offhand
hazy monolith
This is the worst fucking expansion for gearing up all this spark shid making it...
also divide vault
minor cape
Why does everyone in PvP sub run a offhand then 1h?
not everyone
some go double dagger
jolly bear
how do you get a 450 crafted weapon?
jolly bear
I thought tokens were only for armor
minor cape
how do you get a 450 crafted weapon?
yup, i have no idea too
lol
probably from pve 🤮
jolly bear
gross
I have 447 scalewarden mace
otherwise I’d have a 447 haste vers dagger
and we all know that’s 🗑️
keen dune
This is the worst fucking expansion for gearing up all this spark shid making it...
Fr pvp needs its own sparks at the very least
spring bough
Has anyone tried using this beacon trinket in a rated arena? I know it’s losing the agility from the pvp trinkets by using it. But if the thing crits is a million plus damage even nerfed by 70% still a 300k or so hit. Could cheese some one shots with it I feel like lol
spring bough
Haven’t been lucky enough to get it yet been trying to get the heroic one
If it worked with CB that sounds OP lol
potent pivot
Wouldn't it make more sense to craft a dagger with vers mast then?
That command doesn’t really apply to pvp the same as it does pve
It’s not as simple as “30 ilvl” for pvp because you cannot sim pvp combat. Most people disregard that in pvp because it’s mostly due to shadow tech procs, which don’t matter anywhere near as much for pvp
oblique geyser
Yea you care more about what gives the most dmg in a dance window
tawny kestrel
Has anyone tried using this beacon trinket in a rated arena? I know it’s losing ...
that one specifically is nerfed by 90 or 95%
tried it, hits for 40k
spring bough
Damn that’s no fun
wise breach
how do you get a 450 crafted weapon?
You can't, 447 is the max you can go
But still, crafted 447 vers/mastery dagger in oh is slightly better than 447 slow world PvP offhand
wary spire
What part of conquest gear is bis? We have tier, craft, wpvp...
tribal phoenix
how is this hp possible?
toxic yarrow
Buffs probably
jolly bear
You can't, 447 is the max you can go
gross
languid ravine
poor OCD guys having to run numbers ending on 7 in a world where 450 exists
I just spent waiting 3mins for krolkoth respawn until I had the idea that maybe the world quest from yesterday is over 
this is what queue times does to your brain
jolly bear
this is what queue times does to your brain
yup
yo
so I gotta do fuckin +16s to get a 447 crafted wep?
jolly sierra
yes
jolly sierra
cuz that doesnt work like that
odd mortar
HI
jolly bear
is it weird that pandas and vulpera make me uncomfortable
odd mortar
no they are weird
jolly bear
skinny kultirans when
shut solstice
how is this hp possible?
I have 689k without buffs in pvp. Outlaw.
jolly sierra
what happened with me
wary spire
is it weird that pandas and vulpera make me uncomfortable
I like panda's dance and landing animation.
They do be looking like fnaf animatronics tho.
languid ravine
Panda has supreme weapon animations, I mean blizz yoinked it off shaolin or some shit so go figure
meanwhile my troll shaman doing T-pose bayblade spin
jolly bear
So, from what i could read, all 3 builds are competitive?
2, dark brew is a bit behind so I replaced it with Flagellation
the other one is The Rotten
potent pivot
Even dark brew?
There’s like 4+ viable builds rn
jolly sierra
i lost my 30m queue for that
wary spire
Screw queue, i got logged off on turn 5 and 6 of shuffle.
jolly sierra
fucking diablo 4
finite hinge
There’s like 4+ viable builds rn
back to pve 
minor cape
Maybe it's gladiusex?
thank god they are making their own
ui
default
@jolly sierra im playing a fucking frost dk now wtf is wrong with me
jolly sierra
<@239851547935113216> im playing a fucking frost dk now wtf is wrong with me
wat
how
minor cape
will hurt at higher lvl
they are changing it 10.1.5
seems like more sustained approach to me but still not bad burst
also judging by arenalogs frosts winrate is 52% in all brackets somehow
🤔
wary spire
Yee winrate's fucked now
surreal barn
Drustvar > Activity > 24 Hours > Subtlety Rogue
Accident pasted that in WoW general
Gave @lapis steeple a stroke
So check out the mmr inflation
jolly sierra
wut
surreal barn
potent pivot
THATS A PVP WEBPAGE?
potent pivot
(Like that really means anything)
lapis steeple
potent pivot
potent pivot
LOL
spring bough
Sounds like where I’ll be if I get hit for language again 😂
jolly sierra
why this fake rogue insults the thing than make the class famous
never got why some rogues goes pve only
gleaming pawn
same reason why some go pvp only, you play what you enjoy
minor cape
fella just entered pvp chat and flexes playing only boring content
spring bough
damn i just got home about to que is it really that bad out there today
jolly sierra
the worst part is when u get random dced tho
spring bough
been happening to me all the time lately lol
hazy monolith
played my first 5 shuffles on sub today without tier
dunno how often they said i should do more dmg xd even when we were winning
nova viper
rogue is a pvp made class
True
But wow want be wierd mix casual-milion spells and addons game
So we have Rogue pve players xD
jolly sierra
pf
spring bough
has any1 made the engi bracers for pvp yet or any engi gear
austere thorn
hey thats my NA rogue there
spring bough
looking at the tinker slots and this nelth flame one sounds pretty interesting for pvp
that or the invisibility one
surreal barn
You see the price lol
I got helm and braces on one of my rogues and haven’t decided if I wanna drop 300k
spring bough
what would be best for pvp tho. prob the invis?
spring bough
so prob the dragonflame then lol
surreal barn
I got the cables to bring someone back to life
dapper chasm
If vers is the prio stat for sub, why do people prefer the mastery weighted gems?
surreal barn
Works in combat
spring bough
wouldnt they nerf the brez one for arena tho?
surreal barn
Oh I dont think any work in arena
spring bough
alarm bot would be cool if it worked in arena
surreal barn
I was wondering if the flame board worked in battlegrounds with a flag
Would be hilarious
jolly sierra
should some of that work in arena, right?
i say, some of the recipes drops from pvp
would be dumb af if u couldn't use them there lol
surreal barn
Tinkers def won’t work in arena
jolly sierra
at least u can socket the bracer anyways
spring bough
so i did a dumb move with spark thinking i could convert crafted into tier the other day. should have def looked it up before i did it cause now i have a junk shadowflame chest sitting in my bags lmao
surreal barn
Damn.
oblique geyser
Oof
spring bough
could have had a fresh pvp helm with vers/mast but now i gotta wait and buy another pvp upgrade token for it since i used the quest one lmfaooo
surreal barn
There were some wondering why some people pve, that would be one reason 😂
But nah it’s no big deal cause you can craft every week now
I bet they uncap conquest soon too
spring bough
what you mean craft every week? i only got 1 spark this week
surreal barn
You can use your 6 tokens from the vault for spark half now
Do that + the normal you get and make something every week
spring bough
ah yeah i just went for socket thinking id be fine lol