Is fun
#pvp
faint vessel
Do u use the drain life?
Ive never needed to use it
Thing i cant figure out is where to place demonic circle
And gateways
Optimally
west bolt
Like what?
hidden dome
You know rogue PvP is bad when people talk about their warlocks instead
west bolt
Across the board cc reduction?
west bolt
So I take it rogue is gonna be worse
tribal badger
thats how many feel yes
west bolt
How bad we talking
tribal badger
u cannot blind into a sap anymore for instance
west bolt
Bro that sucks ass
tribal badger
well pretty much every CC over 5s in duration got nerfed
hidden dome
CC is the only thing keeping rogue alive atm
tribal badger
most CCs under 4s duration werent touched
west bolt
kidney?
hidden dome
Without CC rogue is F tier
tribal badger
its basically maim but doesnt do damage now
which is kinda funny
since maim was always supposed to be a hybrid knockoff of it
but now its just worst then maim 
west bolt
Blizz wants rogues in the dust for next tier
We were good last now they want us to be dogshit
hidden dome
Funny thing is, Blind into Sap is basically the one thing you play around with Outlaw
west bolt
So outlaw is basically dead?
west bolt
How is sin looking?
tribal badger
hard to tell how specs will do next season
but all rogue damage is low rn
and with cc reduction
not looking super promising
hidden dome
I won't even touch outlaw next season. I will start with mage or something like that
west bolt
Even for pve?
hidden dome
Nah, I will stick play him in PvE
west bolt
I’m forced onto rogue for pve
hidden dome
KSH is achievable with every spec anyway
But for PvP this will be the first season where Outlaw won't be the spec I start with
west bolt
Ksh is 3000io right?
hidden dome
only 2.5
west bolt
What’s the 3k achievement
hidden dome
There isn't one. After Keystone Hero you either play for the dungeon ports (getting a 20 timed) or you play for rank one (top 0.5%)
but top 0.5% is way above 3k I think
west bolt
Gotcha
wise breach
hidden dome
Sorry man, I wish they removed it. I always get 2 shamans and atleast 1 mage or monk on that map
hidden dome
The only arena game I ever rage quitted out of was on that map
as an Warrior against a warlock with the awesome perma-slow legendary
hollow sundial
hunter is a natural switch
barbed shot is rup, kill command is evis lol
got stun trap
unspellable root is super cheeky
hidden dome
Blizzard please
tribal badger
buff healer rewards
because i have a healer i queue on but also i want faster dps queues
waxen meteor
unspellable root is super cheeky
that is a great skill but it's kinda hard to find best time
if a melee trains hunter alone, that skill is god like
if double melee trains your melee teammate, that kind of hard to use?
you throw there you don't even know who will be rooted...
waxen meteor
Blizzard please
I just had a 40 mins queue but ended up 60 so i am happy haha
hollow sundial
I usually use it on healers behind a pillar while their dps are lining hard
ill even use it off traps sometimes to help my healer get a fear off
hidden dome
Can Blizzard perma ban all the hunters abusing the nameplate bug please
I just love it when the nameplate of a hunter permanently vanishes after they feign death
As if PvP wasn't horrible enough right now, we also need game breaking exploits that go unfixed for months
Yeah, fuck this shit. I just won't bother with PvP anymore. The dogshit balancing is one thing, but waiting 30 Mins only to lose a match to known bug is too much for me.
hollow sundial
thats super shitty
does it just work off pressing the spell at all?
or is it like a weird interaction with something else
hidden dome
It has something to do with feign death
The russian Hunter I play against makes it work 100% of the time
hollow sundial
ahh yeah thats wack lol
hidden dome
Other hunters don't
The bug has been reported at the start of the year and is unfixed 4 months later
I don't understand how anyone at Blizzard has a job tbh, in any other industry this laziness wouldn't fly.
hollow sundial
LOL seriously
potent pivot
The bug has been reported at the start of the year and is unfixed 4 months later
Have you reported the player?
hidden dome
I did
potent pivot
wicked rampart
Doesn't disabling and enabling nameplates again fix it? Or is this a different bug?
hasty acorn
Hey guys! I could really use some help with pvp as a whole, Im sub. Anyone willing to help :)?
dull plaza
Im a dom, how can i assist u :3
lyric onyx
halcyon timber
I was told looking straight up fixes it but sounded troll af
hasty acorn
Well too begin with I do like 25% damage of everyone else in solo shuffle...
dull bridge
using any nameplate addon solves the disappearing nameplate bug
or if you flick your camera away and back it forces the game to redraw the nameplate
or disable and enable nameplates that also forces a redraw
i had long forgotten about the bug since i use kuinameplates
halcyon timber
I use plater
I see that junk happen all the time
Prob gonna have to show hide combo awkwardly in a match to fix
wicked tide
Hey guys! I could really use some help with pvp as a whole, Im sub. Anyone willi...
The biggest issue with sub pvp is your reliant on your teamates obeying the laws of diminishing returns, and not breaking CC. The lower your MMR the harder it can actually be to gain rating because most lower rated players don’t pay attention to diminishing returns (DR) which ends of up delaying your “go”
hasty acorn
The biggest issue with sub pvp is your reliant on your teamates obeying the laws...
Could you define diminishing returns??
tight veldt
Could you define diminishing returns??
cc being reduced each time you use it for a set amount of time
hasty acorn
Which is the best spec at the moment would you say?
hasty acorn
cc being reduced each time you use it for a set amount of time
Ah I see
tight veldt
After 3 stuns, they are immune to stuns for like X amount of seconds
wicked tide
Yes but every time u stun someone it resets the time it takes for your stun DR to reset
hasty acorn
After 3 stuns, they are immune to stuns for like X amount of seconds
Do you know how many seconds that is?
wicked tide
So for instance if the DR is about to reset and it has 3 seconds left on it and your teamates uses an aoe stun it’s will stun for the third DR and now reset the counter making u wait another 20 seconds for you to be able to@fully stun someone
halcyon timber
Diminish might not work any@ore
wicked tide
Diminish still works but u need gladiolus as well
halcyon timber
Fug
wicked tide
Most of the time it’s your teamates that fuck your DR
halcyon timber
I just use Tmw now
Or you could be old school and use in game stop watch xD
Dinosaur drs
wicked tide
I would much rather prefer that then this mess of add ons that pretty much tell u what buttons to hit and when
(Weak auras)
halcyon timber
Or do dumb shit like fking your soon to be garbage blind
Yeah its a mess , just want bread and butter again
Fat backstabs + evisc slapping people into next week
minor cape
Do u use the drain life?
as a more experienced warlock told me in another discord you never use it on destro
jolly sierra
level 47 w warr, leveling is fast af cuz rares respawn every hour
so i just chill here and go back where rares are and kill them fast
jolly sierra
level 50 LETS GOOOOOOO
potent pivot
Yeah that’s pretty fast too
jolly sierra
you can even just macro both sharpen blade and MS in a button to make it unpredictable to burst
instead guys pressing the buff like in some matches
tribal badger
i think its just cause not everything lines up with everything else where everything for pala just auto lines up
on 30s/1m timers
potent pivot
Everything for Fury lines up
tribal badger
well ya talking about arms
potent pivot
tribal badger
arms alotta fun in pvp ngl
jolly sierra
so u can burst every 45s and then do a huge burst 45s later
potent pivot
I really like Fury
tribal badger
might try fury once i have the extra conq to get another weapon
jolly sierra
that can desync trinkets too tho
potent pivot
Arms is kinda w/e
tribal badger
i think the only thing thats sorta braindead about arms rn is u dont really decide much about being tanky
cause even maximum dps rotation u cast IP nearly on cd 
slam damage is so low and ogcd rage spend for more overpowers
jolly sierra
slam damage is so low and ogcd rage spend for more overpowers
so that is the use for slam? XD
tribal badger
uhh
drowning in so much rage cant spend even with IP on cd
no op charges
rend up
and no MS
xd
basically as low prio as u can get
nice for 1 tapping totems and such tho
since every ability arms has just hits hard
jolly sierra
ah gotcha
tribal badger
u do cast it very infrequently
and it hits for about as much as a 7 cp dispatch from law so
potent pivot
It’s the same for fury atm I think
tribal badger
👍
potent pivot
Drowning in rage and never pressing filler
tribal badger
u just are pretty much gcd capped on better spells
potent pivot
Only thing that sucks about fury is it doesn’t have bladestorm anymore
Feels kinda monkaS
tribal badger
disarm can really fuk ur primary defensive cd also
when u get stun disarmed on enraged
its still a DR but can be hard to get the healing off of it
tribal badger
i recently learned about the combo of wrecking throw +
the pvp talent vs warlocks
average cast 160k damage to warlocks shield
24s cd
very neat toy to add to the class tree
basically instantly breaks 70% of the shield in 1 gcd
jolly sierra
is it better than shat throw?
tribal badger
it is the exact same damage to absorbs as shattering throw
but without the 5 minute cd
and no cast time
jolly sierra
ah gotcha
tribal badger
it doesnt break immunities
so basically, its an absorb popper
not immunity popper
jolly sierra
sounds situational to chose between the 2 then
tribal badger
yup
ive been enjoying it vs locks
its always up for the shield and it cuts through it so fast
seems decent vs MW as well
jolly sierra
yep
tribal badger
honestly new warrior class tree is just wild i was doing double takes at all the neat toys you get
jolly sierra
uh oh forgot to upgrade the heirlooms
tribal badger
just D stance baseline for all 3 specs is wild
stance dancing was always the most fun warrior
jolly sierra
so u use D stance when u are the trained one?
and then switch when u are not the focus?
tribal badger
yup
15% flat dr for 10% self dps dr
u can swap back at anytime anyway just a 3s cd on a stance when u leave it ogcd
u can literally swap out for a go while being trained then swap back in
jolly sierra
ah nice
tbh i rather prefer to ask here cuz the class is simplistic af and w rog mindset we can think better the stuff
similar to ret main mindset
tribal badger
yup it feels like when i first started playing ret tbh
if u play similar to a rogue where u know u might need to swap defensive/kite away/line enemy team during their goes because ur a squishy lil bish
feels so much more effective when i also have this massive defensive toolkit i can camp in
jolly sierra
yeah
the thing is warrior or ret mains which never played any more complex class just smash their buttons without knowing what to do, and when u ask them for any cc they just say "LOL THAT IS SHIT"
and maybe they doesn't line the stuff and just press the shit out cds
tribal badger
warr pvp talents r pretty litty also
sharpen just feels amazing everywhere, 50% ms
bladestorm talent is fun also for bgs
and the root + charge doing 40k damage
queen geyser
Fat backstabs + evisc slapping people into next week
Preach brother
Seal Fate/Daggers was the most fun I had in Classic vanilla and I’d love to have something like it in retail (without the need for modifiers and cooldown stacking)
And honestly the absence of it is why my heart lies with underdog outlaw
halcyon timber
And honestly the absence of it is why my heart lies with underdog outlaw
yeah just want fat FW + hemo + fat BACKstabs, 1 min dance, no silly cds trying to do tony hawk tricks, no Sl nonsense creating more mini games, no corn on the macabre buffs. Just cata / wod would be great.
waxen meteor
level 47 w warr, leveling is fast af cuz rares respawn every hour
yeah it's leveling up super fast
which expansion did you use
jolly sierra
which expansion did you use
wod
waxen meteor
wod
Nice, my rogue did that!
I honestly also love the map and story
only problem is mine/herb is worthless
Really want to build a Mag'har Orc chara
jolly sierra
i loved wod in its day
even when ppl said was shit
imo was its lack of content the problem more than the theme itself
waxen meteor
Raid seems soso?
I did the 3 raids this week
I love the stories but i am not a big fan of siege machines and etc.
jolly sierra
were funny too
u were even be able to troll ppl with position switchers
so they died by burn if they were afk in raid
tribal badger
the raids were dec
honestly wod was pretty decent overall
people just didnt like it because it had one of the longest last patches on record
and also the storyline was kinda lame
alt realities r always kinda lame cause they just introduce big characters then kill them off and are like "oh but it was just AU character xd"
like AU velen made velens first relevant appearence in years just to die off in the alliance starting zone
jolly sierra
i rlly liked AU garona questline
tbh
well, khadgar questline itself
arak storyline was good too
in the taylor garrison
waxen meteor
I love both legion and wod stories
jolly sierra
nothing to say about legion
waxen meteor
I think my rogue finished 2.5 maps of WoD , then forced to go to SL for next levels
jolly sierra
suramar questline was my favorite overall
waxen meteor
yeah suramar is very nice story and journey
jolly sierra
and the city itself
waxen meteor
I am less engaged in Zandalari story, but some chapters are alright, not bad
Don't feel much in SL story
Feel nothing in DF stories, probably only 1-2 small stories are attractive to me
jolly sierra
nah SL storyline felt forced af
specially for pelagos
they wanted to slap him everywhere
waxen meteor
and the city itself
I tried to unlock races, but i eventually finished all missions
jolly sierra
ah gotcha thought u played it back in the day XD
waxen meteor
no, was completely afk from panda to sl s4
jolly sierra
i was 34 at start of afternoon yeah
100% sure will get to 65 as min today
my only goal tbh is 1k8, i have a lot of conq waiting w my rog
waxen meteor
for sure
i think i got my hunter from 60-70 fairly quick
then almost fully conquered in 1 hour
a couple of pieces random chest never gave me 😦
1800 is quite easy as long as your first game went well
tribal badger
i got the most absurd rng gearing my warr
opened 7 conq boxes
got all 4 tier slots + weap and cloak/belt
warrs use crafted pvp boots/helm so i just sparked tho
practically full conq in 5 minutes
jolly sierra
kek
according to a guy here, which played w blues
a warrior in full tier did 50k constant dmg in shuffle between matches
and was in general, the other players did half the dmg tho
also no nerfs
tribal badger
well wars just been solid low S high A tier for the whole season
and just dodges all nerfs so
seems like a gud thing
jolly sierra
yep
we are just doing some backup guys
just in case rogs stays like this
also, they can pick the elite daggers for us
jolly sierra
garrote or kidney if is melee
west bolt
how do i know which
what should i be spending my mfd on
snd, rupture kidney?
coming out of stealth or while in stealth
west bolt
not which pec
whether i garrote or kidney
i always cheapshot ranged but if its melee how do i know which
or is it more intuition based, something you pick up by just doing it
jolly sierra
never cheap shot as assa to start unless isn't a kill target
if the target can cc you by casting, use garrote
if not, kidney
for example, ret must not have silence to stun, so you can garrote him then mfd kidney
jolly sierra
if you start with garrote into a warrior he will just stun you with stormbolt
no
straight kidney mfd
west bolt
so gar and then mfd kidney?
jolly sierra
no
west bolt
or i break stealth with kidney
jolly sierra
kidney and then garrote
west bolt
breaking stealth with kidney doesnt make alot of sense tho when you can cheapshot gar and then mfd kidney
why would you kidney out of stealth?
jolly sierra
make sense
because your garrote still have the increased damage bonus
cheap shot is too few pressure to start in a kill target
west bolt
ah because 3 seconds after breaking stleath it still gets it
so after i mfd kidney and get my dots out and sap/blind the non kill targert
how do i keep the cc going?
do i like vanish/cheapshot
seems like a waste of a vanish tbh
jolly sierra
vanish is used defensively in assa unless you are ne
if you wanna pressure between goes you can shadowstep healer and gouge then kidney the kill target
west bolt
but kidney would be on cd
west bolt
after i open with kidney on kill target get dots out and stun the non klill target
how do i keep the cc train going on the kill target
or if they trinket it
jolly sierra
you dont wanna stun the off kill target if is a healer unless you for example sap the healer then cheap the off target then kidney directly the kill target and you double garrote them
the opener usually is not the killing blow stance of matches
is just to bait some defensives or trinket
jolly sierra
sap off target =/= sap healer
west bolt
but what if kidney breaks on main
what then
what if they trink it
or something like that
jolly sierra
then its done
west bolt
i dont restun?
jolly sierra
wait until dr is over and go again
west bolt
dr?
jolly sierra
dismishing return
west bolt
how long is it?
jolly sierra
like 30s, u have addons to track it
fierce laurel
18s
jolly sierra
gotcha, level 60 with warrior
frozen falcon
is exsanguinate worth it rn in shuffle?
jolly sierra
yes
frozen falcon
and it is exsang before DM right
jolly sierra
personally i use it as another burst window
jolly sierra
gl
vocal surge
people tryna argue War needs more buffs in 10.1 in the forums
vocal surge
dunno lol
frozen falcon
wait 40 minutes for a queue, win 2 games, dh ragequits
vocal surge
remember WoD tier set bonus for Combat?
Finishing moves have a 20% chance to generate 5 combo points and cause your next eviscerate to consume no energy.
Increase the chance for Revealing Strike to generate an extra Combo Point by 20%
jolly sierra
did they used the tier in pvp?
vocal surge
Dont recall
tis been a while
T16 for rogue was Killing Spree related
+10% more killing spree damage with each hit. Vendetta increased mastery for 5sec up to 20 times. Backstab had a 4% chance to become an Ambush (works like Audacity)
2p was a stacking buff that reduces the energy cost for your next combo point generating abilities by 15 up to 5 times whenever you use Revealing Strike, Honor Amongst Thieves, or Seal Fate
vocal surge
it looks like older tier sets were more boring
doing simple crit chance effects
or damage increases and minor bonuses
while newer ones become way more impactful
frozen falcon
SV tier set this season is goated
jolly sierra
yeah is crazy good for level up
you just need to use this opportunity, is very efficient
idle root
so that was a fucking lie
jolly sierra
OOF
jolly sierra
try after 45m
idle root
try after 45m
waxen meteor
queue popped after 5min, then someone declined, im 22mins in
Means it's the healer rejceted
jolly sierra
level 67
vocal surge
Aye
simple crest
what can shadow duel be replaced with in solo shuffle? it drains all your energy when you use it, its useless for pug games with people who dont know what they are doing. i have smoke bomb and maneuverability already
minor cape
what can shadow duel be replaced with in solo shuffle? it drains all your energy...
don't do it
shadowy duel is EXTREMELY powerful
you just have to use it when you have enough energy and have symbols of death off cd
there are just so many uses to it, you can use it as a long cc, you can use it to cheese kill
but to answer your question, disarm of course
if you really dont want to play duel
which i think is a mistake
by default you use smoke bomb, duel and disarm. If you dont need disarm replace it with maneuverability
untold remnant
Day 2 of trying rogue again. HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE
simple crest
ive never had someone die from using it. i just used it on a boomkin at 10% hp and he full healed himself. ive used it on a healer when someone else was low, and they survived the 5 seconds and got full healed the moment the healer came out of a duel/kidney combo.
untold remnant
What sub build are you guys using now?
Cause all the top rogues don't play anymore and still have 'old' build
minor cape
ive never had someone die from using it. i just used it on a boomkin at 10% hp a...
its just a couple negative experiences
simple crest
no its not, that was just a couple of examples
minor cape
boomie healed himself because to kill in duel you need to kidney first and make sure they dont have trinket
simple crest
they always have trinket cause no one else ccs in this
minor cape
its your job as rogue to make sure they trinket
i would suggest you learn how to use duel better instead of replacing it, but yes, if you dont want to use it go for disarm i guess
simple crest
1 out of 5 games ill actually get some people who apply enough pressure to actually make others worry. i just had an prevoker who did more damage than the fury war.
minor cape
its not really a talent problem isnt it
simple crest
otherwise they just wait out the cc and save the trinket
minor cape
also other talents are worse
simple crest
im not saying its a bad talent, i can see how good it is. just that in the part of solo shuffle im in, no one is able to capitalize on it making it just annoying for one person.
minor cape
id keep duel for a chance to cheese
cause control is king is not that good, the distraction thing might be usable sometimes, death from above is a joke
and you dont need both disarm and maneuvrability most the time
untold remnant
What sub build are you guys using now?
Just went 5/6 going with Rotten+SecTec and playing like a troll cc'ing and running around.
harsh steppe
anybody here have a razer mouse w/ extra buttons? not sure where else to ask this but having trouble setting up keybinds for it. when i assign the keys to the module, it'll apply it as "ctrl" or "ctrl + 7." either way, both of these, when i go into settings in wow & try to set up a different keybind as ctrl + the key, it removes the keybind from the previous bind
faint vessel
i also like rotten sec tech
Hey, have you tried your destro lock in bg? I am getting annihilated by hunters at level 69
scarlet shell
queue popped after 5min, then someone declined, im 22mins in
lmao why does that happen
solo shuffle queue pops and its always the last dude that never accepts
5 minutes in then i am waiting and extra 30
minor cape
Hey, have you tried your destro lock in bg? I am getting annihilated by hunters ...
sub 70 pvp is unbalanced
get geared and youll be destroying
glacial aurora
If yall could see aub reworked what would u like? What direction would u want the spec taken in?
waxen meteor
hmm there's a patch today?
wary spire
If yall could see aub reworked what would u like? What direction would u want th...
Big deeps from stealth with gameplay being boom->run away->boom with dance being there only as a utility.
untold remnant
Eviscerate is such a wet noodle xD
jolly sierra
anybody here have a razer mouse w/ extra buttons? not sure where else to ask thi...
don't shove me your richness vs my 5 buttons mouse
jolly sierra
hmm there's a patch today?
maybe just hotfixes
minor cape
don't shove me your richness vs my 5 buttons mouse
i can relate to this
jolly sierra
i can relate to this
the ol' reilable
minor cape
well i got raised at work so maybe i can afford it now 🫡
jolly sierra
me too, but after getting the gamer computer
minor cape
rip to all the poor shamans and warlocks that will face you
jolly sierra
yeh heh
waxen meteor
yeh heh
damn, lv70 already?
my priest is lv17 now hah
you can't have double panda
jolly sierra
<:2ez:587982296066424843> you can't have double panda
i do, free ccs
jolly sierra
damn, lv70 already?
yeah, we are running short of time
waxen meteor
yeah, we are running short of time
i googled yesterday people are saying warrior and warlocks are rocking at 10.1?
waxen meteor
what about healers
stray rivet
minor cape
i googled yesterday people are saying warrior and warlocks are rocking at 10.1?
im excited to play destro in 10.1
cause like
it gets baseline precog, less kick, better cc AND it gets buffed
if only rogue had the same treatment
like honestly destro is pre dance nerf sub power level yet one got nerfed and one gets buffed
frozen falcon
got rival on me rogue 
nova viper
jolly sierra
gratz
frozen falcon
Is rogue supposed to be this hard or is it just not a good meta for it, got elite on my survival and that felt a lot easier
potent pivot
Rogue is kinda difficult yes and also not great meta wise atm
You can get elite with it but it’s not going to be a push over
frozen falcon
I think I'm fine with rival, already got rewards on hunter
Gonna keep practicing though for next season
potent pivot
Only set I really care about snagging before the season ends is warr
Shit looks like a cool set
frozen falcon
It does, the plate world set next season is so good but I don't really play plate classes often which sucks
potent pivot
Yeah it looks really good too
jolly sierra
another loss
a fkn devoker
0-6
another caster match
fuck why i cant have this w my rog
tribal badger
yea double mage warlock lobby on warrior is rough
jolly sierra
1-5 against devoker, ele and balance
dude fkn casters
gimme a match w melees
3 wizard lobbies in a row w my warr
tribal badger
ya 3 wizard lobbies are rough as arms feels like its 1 major weakness
gotta play uber defensive and hope ur teammate leverages it
but usually they wont
jolly sierra
nope
even more in low cr
so im fucked till i get a decent match with melees
finally a melee match
3-3 MW monk was in greens
xd
he went 0-6
tribal badger
rogue in my lobby
pov
🤤
time to farm some rating
POV U MADE THE MISTAKE OF THINKING ROGUE CAN QUEUE SOLOQ
unlucky
jolly sierra
noice
jolly sierra
POV U MADE THE MISTAKE OF THINKING ROGUE CAN QUEUE SOLOQ
how ended the rog?
that looks like a bukkake
tribal badger
uh
jolly sierra
<@239851547935113216> got my warrior mog ready
wait is a dwarf
jolly sierra
XD
jolly sierra
queuing again, i wanna tunnel a rog too
vocal surge
Aye
jolly sierra
XD
tribal badger
huuugr
i have the mastery weap on my warrior
idk if i wanna spend 1800 conq swapping 300 secondaries when i could use that for boxes for more alts
jolly sierra
3-3
druids just random cced this time
xdd
literal i was bursting and the guy cycloning my target
vocal surge
F
jolly sierra
dont get why some druids spam cyclones everywhere instead cceing the healer
tribal badger
all % hp stuffs got nerfs from the looks of it
cause buffing stamina buffs % hp heals by alot
(since it doesnt impact them at all)
jolly sierra
ignore pain buffed
tribal badger
yes all direct healing got buffed
or alot of dps's direct healing
but like, storm wall and pain and gain both nerfed
hollow sundial
ignore pain buffed
jolly sierra
im very dumb
but where is storm wall in the talent tree?
just calculated the pvp stamina nerf
alongside the buffs by 25%
and you have a difference for around 500 more stamina w all those adjustments
is still a buff
forgot to calculate this, is even more
as we only use fierce armor kit
fading blade
so im gonna just assume blizzard is tryna delete rogues
jolly sierra
yes
fading blade
Is that new cloak stuff for all rogues?
exotic dove
Looks like I am only playing Assa instead of multiple specs like I wanted to next patch. Correct me if I am wrong of course
with these changes added
potent pivot
outlaw and sub have decent tier sets
wise breach
Maneuverability change is official
potent pivot
so we'll just have to find out
wise breach
Someone actually discussed this change and decided it was a good idea
potent pivot
yep
i'm ngl i don't understand what they're thinking with the direction of the game rn
pvp wise at least
wise breach
Zug zug
potent pivot
the health changes are good
but they subsequently make rogue even worse than all other zugzug classes
unless there is an actual damage tuning pass at some point i'm considering sub rogue to be dead atm
toxic yarrow
The game Was fine the first week now it’s going all down hill lol
keen dune
I bet it’s gonna look grim until after the first week of the patch when the season starts and then we actually see what’s going on
Hope that’s not just me huffing hopium
surreal barn
I plan on going out there and getting pounded 0-6
My 3-3 is going to feel better than everyone else’s
potent pivot
lol
wise breach
???
faint vessel
sub 70 pvp is unbalanced
In pve destro seems so easy
wise breach
Someone failed at math I'm guessing
potent pivot
........?
jolly sierra
that sounds like a nerf
wise breach
Right?...
wise breach
Oh
wise breach
I can't read
potent pivot
ye but the pvp multiplier would make it every 25s no?
wise breach
So every 100 in PvP?
jolly sierra
why it says 50 then
wise breach
50 is the regular value
potent pivot
not sure i've never seen them do a .5-2 multiplier on seconds
wise breach
Yeah I'm not sure
potent pivot
in that way anyway
jolly sierra
im confused too
potent pivot
my assumption when it's a positive multiplier is that it's a buff
so in pvp it's every 25s
but it very well could be the other way around ig
wise breach
In any case, that aside, there definitely seem to be doing an across the board 50% nerf to all tier sets in PvP
Which I'm totally okay with
jolly sierra
stormkeeper is screwed anyways
potent pivot
tier was like the 1 chance rogue had to be decent as it currently stands
jolly sierra
cuz it has 0.2 multiplier in 10.1
potent pivot
we're completely dependent on damage tuning to be good right now
wise breach
Idk, meta needs to change to be friendlier to rogues too
If the same demo/ret/warrior/BM meta stays, screw it
And tbh, I don't want rogue damage buffed to be oppressive like early season assa
I just strongly dislike the cc changes
Because the only way to make setup classes viable then is stupid burst, which seems counter to the crit change
So... what exactly is the plan
jolly sierra
who doesn't dislike that if game will go monke
wise breach
The stamina change seems pretty minor on PTR
I went from 342k to 367k on my hunter (before PvP scaling but counting trinket bonus)
I also gained 1300 agility from the trinket bonus change
jolly sierra
is still a buff
wise breach
Yeah but the insane buff to primary stat is going to offset the stamina change
If it weren't for the crit change I'd say the pace would get even faster
hollow sundial
LOL DEVS ARE CLOWNS
jolly sierra
how much time should we hide now?
halcyon timber
Yeh aint looking good man
graceful ravine
just gonna roll whatever class is OP yolo
halcyon timber
11.0 cope
vocal surge
Unsub time 
dull bridge
yo riddle me this, is the patch notes complete or incremental? i.e. are all the rogue cc nerfs undone or just unchanged from the previous PTR patch
potent pivot
yo riddle me this, is the patch notes complete or incremental? i.e. are all the ...
incremental
they're unchanged
dull bridge
yeah the devs are clowns
quaint cedar
Dropping this huge 25% hp change 2 weeks before the patch comes out is an... interesting change
I think I'm done lol
11.0 when?
jolly sierra
last match went 4-2, capped the chest for day 1 before reset
i can rest until tomorrow
hope can get the 1k8 soon
think 1k4 is ok to finish the day for being fresh from 70 lol
wise breach
PTR build is a release candidate 
waxen meteor
lol i am dumb
did a 4-2 lobby with ret
queued, went to ICC for mog
thinking it would be a while
used ICC weapon to farm orange shards
then instant queue
did 2 rounds of lobbies, found my dps so low
then i realized i was still using ICC weapon..
vocal surge
F
waxen meteor
may have been 6-0
but i feel those 2 first round made them think i am noob
then they went on me 3 games in a row
waxen meteor
think 1k4 is ok to finish the day for being fresh from 70 lol
i think it's more efficient if you did a lot more practice first haha
then you went first game 60
then you reach 1800 in just a bit
jolly sierra
<:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021> i think it's more efficient if you did a lot mor...
i went with all without knowing anything lol
first time went 4-2 then 2-4, 1-5 and 0-6 cuz i got caster lobbies
then when thing become w melees went 3-3 and 4-2 again
waxen meteor
did u used the shadow edge?
yeah exactly
jolly sierra
F
waxen meteor
nobody reminded me
and it's a 4 melee lobby
i was like how is it possible i am lowest dps
and how is possible their HP bar moved so little lol
jolly sierra
ill be honest
in bfa i used to have the lego daggers in bar to parachute
in a moment went to arena and noticed very late i was using them in matches XD
jolly sierra
look at this
[MACRO] Queue for Rated Solo Shuffle with 1 hotkey
Put the following into a new macro, and hotkey the macro:
/click LFDMicroButton
/click PVEFrameTab2
/click PVPQueueFrameCategoryButton2
/click ConquestJoinButton
/click PVEFrameCloseButton
minor cape
yup, they made cloak of shadows
cleanse physical
its official
on ptr 
also they made distracting mirage slow targets for 60%
which is kinda cool
jolly sierra
hope they makes rog viable soon in 10.1 lol
minor cape
also have to mention they made a big agility boost on gladiators distinction
thats good for rogue
but yeah doesnt seem like its enough
jolly sierra
nah, cuz everybody got it too
jolly sierra
i don't wanna hide forever in alts tbh
but seems like blizz is forcing us to do that
minor cape
ahm acthcually rogue is blizzards fav class
jolly sierra
holinka mains demo lock kek
faint valve
What is Blizzard problem for real. 
Nerf for Rogues and buffs for most of the other classes.
(meant the healing things)
chrome schooner
Rogue clearly has too much survivability right now
Sometimes it lives for more than 1min!
potent pivot
What is Blizzard problem for real. <:exsangery:830021268207304735> Nerf for Rogu...
all those healing buffs were to spells that heal X amount, not spells that heal % of health
hence why they required buffs with the new health pool changes
wanton breach
I'm surprised crimson vial didn't get nerfed there yet again
minor cape
wym it did
tepid willow
crimson vial going down to 16% would be 💀
untold remnant
Good to see everyone being toxic on the state of rogue. Brothers in stealth, waiting for a new moment in the sun
Meanwhile about to get Elite on a hunter
surreal barn
We could start a movement 
Where we just stay stealth
Make every arena last FOREVER
queen geyser
Meanwhile about to get Elite on a hunter
Leveling a Frost DK myself
grand haven
vocal surge
got my 2p on my war now and im at 1600 lol
waxen meteor
Meanwhile about to get Elite on a hunter
I am getting there too hopefully, slowly reaching dueliest
doing 1 solo a day
quaint cedar
I'm so pissed that we had this big pvp talent update where other classes got some cool new talents and we got...nothing.
In fact it's actually worse than nothing because they basically deleted maneuverability
So this whole pvp talent update was a net negative for us
And with 10.1 ptr being a release candidate now, it's pretty safe to say we're not getting shit
potent pivot
I'm so pissed that we had this big pvp talent update where other classes got som...
We got 2 decent pvp talents
quaint cedar
Right, we did get the cloak of shadows one. Forgot about that. What's the other one?
surreal barn
I’d give up evasion at this point just to deal some more damage
quaint cedar
No one is going to play dagger in the dark
Either way I'd still consider losing maneuverability to be a net negative
quaint cedar
Even with cloak dodge talent we're still thing to die in 2 seconds from warriors
Doesn't really help us at all
wise breach
Sub still doesn't have a lot of flexibility, Duel, Smoke Bomb, Dismantle/Cloak
vocal surge
Dismantle also got nerfed
wise breach
Assa can run Smoke Bomb, Dismantle, Cloak
Yeah but that's just in line with all the other cc reduction
waxen meteor
We got 2 decent pvp talents
i thought we need some more baseline buff...
quaint cedar
Outlaw will run enduring brawler and then a combination of smoke bomb, cloak talent, or disarm
waxen meteor
we ain't really got many open spot for pvp talent
wise breach
I forget, are disarms currently affected by the -15% cc?
waxen meteor
smoke/disarm/duel is basically locked...
wise breach
If so, it's not really a nerf
quaint cedar
Disarm isn't affected by the cc reduction so it is a nerf
Warrior had their disarm reduced too at least
vocal surge
^
but its gonna feel worse
to fight against em
since they'll have more uptime in return
hidden dome
Surely they will buff rogue PvP healing to offset the Soothing Darkness PvE nerf... 
vocal surge
quaint cedar
since they'll have more uptime in return
Yup. I fought warriors on the ptr play with the blues. Their damage is out of control. Literally doubling the damage of other dps
hidden dome
Really love the healing changes blizzard. No one in my friends group wanted to play heal this season
And now we get a second, worse season
quaint cedar
Yeah, I was thinking of maybe trying healing more in season 2, definitely reconsidering now lol
At this point I think I'm just skipping season 2
potent pivot
i thought we need some more baseline buff...
Sure, but he was mentioning pvp talents
quaint cedar
Wait for the game to be good again
This might be tinfoil hat but I swear blizzard is deliberately making rogue bottom tier
hidden dome
Rogue is too hard for the 1k rated Blizzard players
potent pivot
Right, we did get the cloak of shadows one. Forgot about that. What's the other ...
Sub got another one too didn’t it? Something with shadowy duel or something I can’t even remember tbh
quaint cedar
They just don't want any rogue spec to be good in pvp
quaint cedar
Sub got another one too didn’t it? Something with shadowy duel or something I ca...
They got a buff to a useless pvp talent that is still useless, so not really
quaint cedar
Its the mirage talent or w/e
Yeah they ruined maneuverability
No longer breaks roots and snares, reduces duration and CD of sprint by 50%
hidden dome
Wait
quaint cedar
So if you talent it you have a useless 4 sec sprint
It's actually worse to have the talent than to not have it
hidden dome
they are nerfing cc, right? Are they also nerfing roots/slows? If not rogue will be unplayable without maneuverability
quaint cedar
Some roots did get reduced, slows didn't get touched at all
And yeah it's looking pretty bad
hidden dome
Wow, it really looks like Blizzard just wants rogues to be F tier
quaint cedar
That's why I'm pissed. We did "technically" get stuff with the pvp update, but when you take it all in together, rogue got absolutely dumpstered
hidden dome
Yeah, Maneu was always a 100% pick against some classes
quaint cedar
How am I supposed to be excited about the new cloak talent when the class as a whole is Z tier?
hidden dome
Yeah, my hype for PvP next season is also non-existing
quaint cedar
Yeah that's what I'm saying. Is blizzard really this clueless, or are they actively trying to make rogue unplayable?
I'm thinking the latter personally
Same here, no desire to play S2 if my main class can't compete
dull bridge
maneuv change is baffling
hidden dome
yeah
quaint cedar
I've managed just fine with outlaw this whole season, but S2 looks so bad that I don't think I'll be able to compete unless I reroll and I don't want to do that
hidden dome
I had no fun with outlaw this season, but that was mostly due to getting into pvp after the ret changes
dull bridge
yeah I'm not playing rogue next season
quaint cedar
Can't even switch to sub, it's going to be turbo trash too. And that's ignoring the fact that I hate it's design anyways (too gimmicky)
Bring back old sub, I don't want to play this sec tec danse macab gimmick shit
hidden dome
We will never get old sub back
quaint cedar
I had no fun with outlaw this season, but that was mostly due to getting into pv...
Outlaw was fine before 10.0.7. It was never S tier or anything but it was good enough and fun to play. Post ret rework it became miserable. This meta is just your 3 biggest counters (arms, demo, ret) running wild every game.
Yeah Legion ruined sub, I doubt old sub will ever return
hidden dome
Outlaw was fine before 10.0.7. It was never S tier or anything but it was good e...
Yep, Shuffle had at least 1 of those specs every single game. More often than not 2 once I got a little higher rated
quaint cedar
One can dream though
Yup. At 2400+ before the patch I used to run into a lot of casters which felt good to play against. Now it's all melee cleave and demo locks
Even on alts you can't escape them. I can't remember the last shuffle I played that didn't have at least one of those 3
hidden dome
I would love to see a "solo shuffle winrate by patch" for each class and at different ratings
vocal surge
^
potent pivot
They got a buff to a useless pvp talent that is still useless, so not really
I like it 
minor cape
Sub still doesn't have a lot of flexibility, Duel, Smoke Bomb, Dismantle/Cloak
but i can see a lot of matchups
where you just drop dismantle
and get that new cloak
oh right
fuck
didnt notice that /cloak
xd
wise breach
Even with that though, there are matchups where you would want both
Like against feral, sure, drop Dismantle for Cloak
Against warrior it would be nice to get both
jolly sierra
against monk think using cloak instead dismantle would be good tho
tribal badger
Ya u should he able to fully cloak karma now
Just another middle finger to the monk class
waxen meteor
Disarm is probably still needed regardless of the cloak talent
Especially when we arent killing target I guess
minor cape
well against monk i wont waste the slot to disarm fof tbh
same
really not that effective
especially now that there will be this cloak thing
also distracting mirage 60% slow is pretty cracked
waxen meteor
Yeah not really for monk alone I mean 😂
vocal surge
XD
potent pivot
fellas lets be real are we really playing distracting mirage
Prolly not I just like it thematically tbh
jolly sierra
when i was watching old wow pvp videos i saw some rogues leaving a mirage, will be something like that thematically wise?
minor cape
it will be same as now
except slow is not 30%
but 60
which i can see being used as a second shiv
wary spire
I thought it didn't work if enemies were in combat?
minor cape
cant confirm i played it 0 times
wise breach
That's correct since you can't distract enemies in combat
If you could use it in combat it might have some use, but as is, I'm not seeing it
untold remnant
Yup. I fought warriors on the ptr play with the blues. Their damage is out of co...
Next alt, let's go
What somewhat works vs. double melee teams is running the carnage, shiv spread RBG dps build.. still squishy as fck but you top the dps meter as assa
halcyon timber
Falling moon of majora’s mask for us boys and girls.
strong maple
Guys, just asking this question here as a last resort but does anyone know if there's a minimum character level required for War Games? We're thinking of doing a "make a Twink" PVP Guild event using the War Game system but I can't find anywhere on forums or Reddit what the minimum level is to queue for a War Game
surreal barn
when i was watching old wow pvp videos i saw some rogues leaving a mirage, will ...
That was shadow reflection most likely
jolly sierra
That was shadow reflection most likely
was from cata i recall
maybe was a glyph w vanish?
surreal barn
I think there were a few vanish glyphs but i honestly can’t remember
hidden dome
You can macro this into vanish to create an after image of yourself https://www.wowhead.com/item=64358/highborne-soul-mirror
Only works in bgs/open
ruby drift
got dced by a mc exploit
This is the way lmao
halcyon timber
We are holding towels and gatorade for the W key heroes now. The only way to climb.
tribal badger
maybe the pvp enchant will be obtainable before 70% of the way thru the season this time
jolly sierra
hope i keep the MMR lol
kept the mmr, fkn exploiters
halcyon timber
kept the mmr, fkn exploiters
jolly sierra
just went 0-6, ppl doesn't know how tf using their defensives
literal had 1 guy saying "go monk ok" i didn't answered till he repeated, i said "shut up just go"
then the guy just died insta
ruby drift
kept the mmr, fkn exploiters
It’s a bug man
Can’t really be replicated
Been around since the inception of the ability
vague summit
Looks like the illusions is confirmed !
jolly sierra
got another one with a elite mogged hunter, the guy ragequitted after losing 2 times in a row, won cr, and think even more mmr with the quitter
think ill go spear to 1k8, people is clueless
tribal badger
bro i had a boomkin hunter hunter lobby
i wanted to neck
undispellable 8 second root is a warcrime
jolly sierra
yesterday i had a devoker and 2 demo locks
in the same match
another one with another devoker, a hunt and a demo
surreal barn
I went to 1.8k on alt rogue with both sepsis and flag
jolly sierra
spear of bastion is the convoke of dragonflight, works perfect at low cr but little inviable after that
surreal barn
Never underestimate the zug
tribal badger
bro
wrecking throw can crit
i just had a game where i globalled the FW bubble almost as he pressed it
then slapped him with an execute right after
jolly sierra
XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
jolly sierra
is even funnier when u have the shatt throw talent from pvp
i just see dark pact or cocoon, insta throw
jolly sierra
Does honor get cleared?
if works like in SL don't think so