XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
#pvp
jolly sierra
ruby drift
Not really lol
jolly sierra
they did a step behind compared to shadowlands crafteds
ruby drift
Envenom is garbo
wise breach
Assa damage is fine right now, but with the reduced cc I'm not sure how it's going to pan out
pale storm
all your damage as assa is garrotte/rupture
ruby drift
Reduced cc and reduced crit dmg
Yeah but they’re trying to shift some dmg into envenoms with tier set bonus
wise breach
Envenom damage is balanced around Amplifying unfortunately
Tbh I might just run Amp/Deadly next season and rely on Hemo, fuck Wound
jolly sierra
they need to buff our survival tho
pale storm
I think they should justy give 2x vanish and vanish shield to all specs
jolly sierra
and reduce crimson vial cd or something
ruby drift
They were very conservative with buffing sub dmg too
jolly sierra
agree w that
ruby drift
Which is fairly crit reliant
pale storm
vanish shield is so nice
jolly sierra
vanish shield would be my stealth fleshcraft casting in this xp
ruby drift
Like secret tech gets a 5% buff lol
jolly sierra
as replacement
wise breach
I fully expect rogues to be utter garbage at the start of the season
jolly sierra
same
surreal barn
These buffs aren’t enough lol what a joke
jolly sierra
and expect very juicy buffs for late patch
seriously thinking in just go rbgs in week 1-4
or at least the first 2 weeks
we are still more valuable there tho
pale storm
not being able to sap/blind caps is monka
jolly sierra
yeah, but we can still be guard dogs at least
ruby drift
not being able to sap/blind caps is monka
Were really never able too anyways
If they had an ounce of brain power that is
tawny kestrel
marble oasis
I’m still interested how the cc changes are going to actually work.
sharp sierra
Lol increasing chaos bolt dmg, guess i’ll be on my lock XD
Warriors going to feel that crit change the most.
jolly sierra
chaos bolt goes psh psh
ofc is a good idea to nerf crit dmg, so we don't die by random procs, like w devoker
still recall a devoker 1 shot me by 240k once
w a pyre
had they already tested their reduced ccs?
ruby drift
They didn’t nerf healing
jolly sierra
still think is a good idea?
ruby drift
Critical strike damage is not heals
Healing wasn’t touched lol
🤔
And they changed it to just dmg
Yes
So read the new post
I can’t help you comprehend it
I wonder what is different from the og post to the new one…
Also it was noted during ptr
But 🤷♂️
halcyon timber
Working as intended, eff us rogues
dull bridge
wow these changes are garbage!
toxic yarrow
Unlucky
dull bridge
also cb+sec tech is nerfed ~%8 according to the patch notes fyi
fading blade
make rogue great again
hollow sundial
i bet were gonna have to start playing outlaw again, not sure how sub will out pressure anything without blind sap
and shit pressure outside of our nerfed stun windows
fading blade
If I recall I did see they wanted to at least test that interaction for 2 weeks, so there is hope down the line we can get our little trick back
Probably wont change since there are very talented players openly saying wtf to that change, but who knows
quaint cedar
gotta love how other specs like locks and ele shams get 20% buffs to their abilities and for outlaw it's just 5%
better than nothing I guess but still feels bad
graceful ravine
Wtb more outlaw buffs
jolly sierra
WTB assa buffs
agile leaf
any info i can find about gearing a fresh 70 pvp rogue?
jolly sierra
that is easy
go to AH and buy all crafted combatant gear
then go to epic bgs and try to earn enough for a weapon
do the weekly for outdoor pvp to get trophy of strife and get a dagger w that
agile leaf
gotcha ty, i need to collect marks for the ashran mounts
agile leaf
do the weekly for outdoor pvp to get trophy of strife and get a dagger w that
the weekly 100 life quest from valdrakken?
jaunty mirage
Lol increasing chaos bolt dmg, guess i’ll be on my lock XD
its not really enough tbh
you wont notice it
jolly sierra
the weekly 100 life quest from valdrakken?
yes
jaunty mirage
destro barely casts it
currently chaos bolt hits for far less than incinerate
theyd legit have to bump it up a TON for it to be worth playing around
jaunty mirage
was destro taking casting circle?
dont think very many were, maybe aff takes it idk
dull bridge
why take casting circle when you can take precog
literally seen it once this season and it was in a 1200 lobby
tribal badger
Why take precog when u can just equip precog and get it for freeeee
God i cant believe they r making it a embel
Next season wizards r gunna be pain
quaint cedar
I bet precog is going to get nerfed
halcyon timber
There isn’t, just a f u melee letter signed by a caster
quaint cedar
no way it doesn't end up being OP
jolly sierra
is a 1700 dmg per stack attack after getting a lot of movement reduction
u get 20 stack and procs
quaint cedar
wait how does that work? does it just apply to your next damaging ability?
or auto attack?
halcyon timber
No idea if it is testable on ptr
jolly sierra
it is
halcyon timber
Sick
jolly sierra
for example u are under crippling poison effect
halcyon timber
Vendor for it?
halcyon timber
Frost nova be damned
jolly sierra
then at 20 u got a buff which u release a hit for like 1700 dmg app per stack
multiply it x20
halcyon timber
Hmm nerf inc
Wtb fixed black jack for blind
F NS at this point , just make it another ambush talent by 10%
quaint cedar
interesting so is it like a new ability you press at 20 stacks?
halcyon timber
At least tier sets are already being looked at by .5 in pvp
Yeh sounds like the stacks az from bfa in a way
quaint cedar
that's not as exciting as what casters get
yeah I mean what are the health pools at now? I think when I tried ptr everyone was at like 500k HP
34k every 40 seconds is nothing
caster players will tell you that's what we deserve for being melee
as if there aren't OP casters every season lol
jolly sierra
im very bad using lock tbh
quaint cedar
yeah and lock is basically never bad
halcyon timber
Rest in piss rogues - casters
quaint cedar
there's always at least 1 spec that's S tier
jolly sierra
SS wizard lobbies are just pillar hugging
halcyon timber
XD
quaint cedar
ehhh idk will that still be the case without maneuverability though?
quaint cedar
at least as outlaw it would be nice for there to be more casters. melee chew us up right now and since all our damage is physical we do so much more damage to cloth
halcyon timber
Rock paper grenade launcher style
jolly sierra
is ptr server up?
agile leaf
what trinks do rogues use for pvp? are insignia's still a thing?
jolly sierra
sophic devotion in both weps
the enchants in back, bracers and boots should be speed ones
torso is waking stats
fingers w mastery
depends of the match tbh
if for example u have a warr yeah sure use emblem
but if for example is a MM with a destro think insignia is better cuz u can kite the dmg
look our guy shadenox is r1 in SS atm w 2 chars
halcyon timber
That's cool
jolly sierra
i need somebody in ptr to test this shit
i'll craft a ring w melee embellishment
they redid drakebreaker gear for s2
ilvl is NYI tho
wise breach
Not much point in it anymore with the crafting changes though, other than as a stopgap
jolly sierra
this guy has a glad mount and is glitched af
this shit will be bis
now, can somebody come to the ptr and help me testing?
agile leaf
should i put this OH onto my MH since it scales to 411 in pvp?
jolly sierra
yeah
dull bridge
now, can somebody come to the ptr and help me testing?
headed to sleep bro
recipe drops from the raid
prolly gonna be %90 nerfed in pvp anyways
jolly sierra
headed to sleep bro
np, maybe somebody else is up here too
im impatient for s2 tbh, even w stuff nerfed
agile leaf
is there a vendor to turn in trophy of strife?
agile leaf
got it, and should i pick up a second pvp dagger with honor?
jolly sierra
if you cant get a conquest one yet yeah sure
agile leaf
damn no, 900 conquest is alot lol
jolly sierra
then sure, keep it
copper maple
look our guy shadenox is r1 in SS atm w 2 chars
Someone tell those guys there's skin and hair colour customisation available in the game.
jolly sierra
Someone tell those guys there's skin and hair colour customisation available in ...
just noticed all are dark skinned XD
jolly sierra
guys the proc is fkn garbage
it doesn't scales w versa and took like 3 root drs to make it trigger
agile leaf
is there any pvp quest in org, or any double honor bg's?
jolly sierra
how are u in gear? full blue?
u can try skirmishes tho, even losing awards decent honor
agile leaf
half pvp gear and half raging tempest gear
jolly sierra
have u accepted malicia weekly quests?
jolly sierra
there are like 2 quests from malicia
observation is called tho
1 is for ranked the other one for unranked
those ones awards good honor, u need only the unranked one
agile leaf
Something Different / Proving in war / Proving Solo
agile leaf
gotcha forsure
and what should i get for my first conquest gear?
just my weakest piece? or a weap?
agile leaf
say no more, haha
final vessel
What's most efficient conquest farming method? 2's spam?
jolly sierra
solo shuffle
or doing every daily pvp activity, both ranked and unranked the 1st time
minor cape
- for shuffle
also collect the crates and kill assassins in open world
it does give some conq
minor cape
pretty often on ravencrest
i just camp assassins in stealth on rogue
and then wait for some party to start attacking him
🫡
copper maple
What tilts me about assassins is how quickly the thing you have to loot disappears
If you die to something after assassin dies, you're not looting it
agile leaf
for bg's or brawls do you use wounding?
minor cape
If you die to something after assassin dies, you're not looting it
you only have to click the bag once
so it opens
if you die stuff gets sent via mail to you
copper maple
Yeah but it can be hard to find in the mess of people
Also in DF it's likely to be happening in PvP areas so everyone is your enemy
If you die, it disappears before you respawn
halcyon timber
this guy has a glad mount and is glitched af
it's just alpha matte layers that are goofing up / not yet implemented in the engine. Probably just a functions test for people that ride it on that client.
surreal barn
Yeah but it can be hard to find in the mess of people
If you bind the interact key to something should work
That’s also how I occasionally get those invisible mining nodes
ruby drift
best spec for shuffle rn?
Rsham
ruby drift
I meant for rogue haha already got my shaman set on enh
Wrong disc for me lol
Prob sin
Lol
potent pivot
best spec for shuffle rn?
I’d just play the spec you enjoy/are best at
They’re all kinda at a similar level atm
Sin has the most damage, but least survivability
Sub and outlaw kinda lack damage but have better defensive capabilities
vocal surge
pog Outlaw and Sub buffs in 10.1
tribal badger
Those r compensations for the crit nerf
Not even sure they r enough to break even damage wise lul
dull bridge
cb+sec tech is even more nerfed with those changes as I said earlier
crit damage nerf is equal to %14 less damage at %100 crit chance, assuming we got %50 crit chance with bte up that's %7 less damage on avg. %5 more damage isn't even enough to bring most outlaw abilities back in line.
even worse if you managed to roll ruthless precision
slender cliff
when did they nerf the crit ?
tribal badger
They r nerfing crit in 10.1 (which is what these buff notes on ptr are for)
minor cape
pog Outlaw and Sub buffs in 10.1
mind sending a link?
nvm i see now
kind of shit buffs
can they fucking
stop buffing backstab
and buff the burst?
dull bridge
no
they should buff backstab so we're dealing damage outside dance
but that would look more like "backstab deals %250 increased damage"
jolly sierra
stop buffing backstab
bring back hemo
surreal barn
Our abilities need to cost more energy and mean something I’m not sure the team that does the tuning has a history that goes far enough back
But we’ll see who knows
tribal badger
5% buff to kspree is a hilarious joke
potent pivot
they should buff backstab so we're dealing damage outside dance
Then sub would be just like every other mongo class
No thanks
tribal badger
If ur ever pressing that button for damage ur memeing
jolly sierra
bring back hemo and buff death from above to make sub deal dmg outside shadow dance
dull bridge
Then sub would be just like every other mongo class
the current playstyle isn't very sustainable, we can either kill in a kidney and everybody complains that we can or we can't and we're resigned to towel boy duty for hunters or mages
fossil sierra
yall think its possible to hit 1800 as outlaw by end of the season?
or is outlaw not even worth playing and i'd be better playing sin?
potent pivot
the current playstyle isn't very sustainable, we can either kill in a kidney and...
Yeah I agree, but at the same time I don’t want sub to turn into just another zugzug pve class. That’d be horrid.
I wish blades was a better CD so that it’d actually be a threatening offensive CD and able to kill someone on your own with etc
dull bridge
Yeah I agree, but at the same time I don’t want sub to turn into just another zu...
I'm %100 with you on this one
potent pivot
Then outside of blades you have to use Dance to help team mates kill
There’s a lot of different things that can be done with rogue to make it more interesting and just overall a better experience to play
minor cape
i honestly really like the whole ticking time bomb thing
like if you have no defensives you are fucked type of stuff
dull bridge
my problem with SB is that it doesn't do jack shit if you don't have dance up. am I gonna burn 2 dance charges just to have a real cd? functionally it's just some mediocre extra damage during one of your dances
minor cape
i dont want to become the pve sub rogue that presses gloomblade 70 times in a row and drinks tea
minor cape
my problem with SB is that it doesn't do jack shit if you don't have dance up. a...
blades does big dam if you play reverb build but noone does it tbh
🫡
potent pivot
The issue is sub’s entire offensive toolkit is based on damage modifiers and finishers, so I assume they restrict SB to only amping builders because of how imbalanced it’d be to have it be a flat damage buff
minor cape
i bet sub will get a rework
why cant blizzard understand is we run cursed sec tech build not because its op but because its the best we got right now
minor cape
and they have to balance everything around this stupid naruto ass ability
dull bridge
The issue is sub’s entire offensive toolkit is based on damage modifiers and fin...
that's the thing and it boggles my mind that they nerfed the dance damage instead of sec tech with the latest build
now you really have to build with sec tech if you want to kill
minor cape
tbh if they nerfed sec tech and gave that eviscerate buff sub would be in a good spot
potent pivot
Yeah idk, I’m perplexed by a lot of their decisions this expansion honestly
potent pivot
I won’t claim to be able to do a better job, or say that they’re doing a bad job. They’re doing what they can as far as I know
It’s just
minor cape
yup, they are trying their best for sure
i hate to say it but sub might be one of those trash by design classes rn
where it either is too good or shit
chrome schooner
They just want to make sure the masses can't come to the forums whining that they die in one stun because they trinketed sap
With all the nerfs to all Rogue specs as well as the CC changes, they have done a wonderful job at that so far
minor cape
i still remember that one moment in arena where a dude wrote to me "if you want to get this guys trinket, sap him", so i did and he trinketed
grand haven
they will whine about rogue no matter what
dull bridge
rogue has been good since 2004!!! fucking rmp again!!!
chrome schooner
Indeed
potent pivot
They just keep making changes that seem to be removing the skill expression from pvp
chrome schooner
I wish they give another tiny buff to Outlaw so we can actually play that next patch
dull bridge
Shadenox what do you think about the s2 assa tier set, meh, could be good?
grand haven
outlaw will need more than a tiny buff to be playable in 10.1
agile leaf
max honor is 15k thats outrageous!
potent pivot
I like the 2P yeah
minor cape
and they buffed shadowstrike so double rotten i guess
but what if it actually turns out good
but it oneshots muh enchancement shamen
and they nerf it
chrome schooner
Shadenox what do you think about the s2 assa tier set, meh, could be good?
Probably good
pallid rune
1st time rogue. Trying to rush 1800 b4 end of season. Assassin the spec to go?
slender cliff
1st time rogue. Trying to rush 1800 b4 end of season. Assassin the spec to go?
mmm na maybe sub assasin more complicated and squishy
pallid rune
Hmm i see. K thanks, will watch some guides
Only rogue left for me to obtain the set
pallid rune
Oh
jolly sierra
u need to do mental gymnastics to make it works
vocal surge
For Outlaw to do good in S2
we need maneuverability
without out it, we literally fall over as a spec
surreal barn
By mental gymnastics he means pop an addy and propranolol right before you queue
dull bridge
I can't play sub if I'm not on cocaine
meld the trinket
distract the go
pre-backstab the healer
halcyon timber
why cant blizzard understand is we run cursed sec tech build not because its op ...
Exactly just ket us do what we do. Bring back wod style. No gimmicks
halcyon timber
stop buffing backstab
We ride this train over and over. Bring back hemo buff backstab and make dance a 1 min cd. Still hit and run but actually do anything meaningful out of dance would be welcomed. There’s a fine line yes but yeah this aint it.
minor cape
I can't play sub if I'm not on cocaine
fax
ive been playing destro lock for couple of days insane to see that there are classes that you can kinda play without really doing big brain things all the time and that can also do good damage outside of a 5 second window
waxen meteor
seems it's going a bit to range/caster meta now
agile leaf
how do i accrue those bloody tokens to get a drakefang weapon?
waxen meteor
how do i accrue those bloody tokens to get a drakefang weapon?
Mostly by crate
potent pivot
world pvp
dull bridge
pvp world quests
tribal badger
it always gives a few, sometimes its the direct reward of them tho ya
waxen meteor
i thought i grabbed enough while leveling up haha
was getting all crates possible that's not bad amount as well
probably i did also a lot of world pvp missions while waiting in queue
jolly sierra
i got a dagger at lvl 66 w all the fornite chests i've dropped in leveling
was helpful af for 70
waxen meteor
I logged in first time in DF 1 week after 10.0 opened
so i didn't have a packed map to level up
was easy and quick
jolly sierra
looks weird w purple eyes
waxen meteor
Blood elf model for everything
jolly sierra
feels like a void elf
waxen meteor
ok, i go for a plastic surgery now
jolly sierra
A.K.A. a traitor
waxen meteor
looks weird w purple eyes
but more inline with easter and bunny ear color
jolly sierra
but tbh i changed eyes for my panda in SL, were green and turned into purple, but looked more pinkish
jolly sierra
<:2ez:587982296066424843> but more inline with easter and bunny ear color
well
jolly sierra
this hair style is very princess/royal, so i took purple haha
i chose this haircut w the qipao cuz looked more formal tbh
w sticks
waxen meteor
i chose this haircut w the qipao cuz looked more formal tbh
you need some skin care lady
jolly sierra
<:2ez:587982296066424843> you need some skin care lady
*more pet shampoo
exotic dove
I am extremely rusty but almost fully geared been rough out there in solo shuffle land peaked 1885 currently at 1825 45% win rate. Should have came back to the game earlier lol
shut solstice
Peasants. Feast your eyes on the true mog.
jolly sierra
Peasants. Feast your eyes on the true mog.
wrong thread buddy
jolly sierra
I am extremely rusty but almost fully geared been rough out there in solo shuffl...
nah, rog state rn in pvp is crap
even r1 are struggling rn
exotic dove
Oh gotcha thanks for the info I was actually thinking in my 3 month absence I thought I got really really bad
shut solstice
wrong thread buddy
Idk. I changed my mog and rose 300 mmr to 900.
jolly sierra
Idk. I changed my mog and rose 300 mmr to 900.
1500 mmr is the minimum at 1st time, think u dropped a lot before
wintry dew
Idk. I changed my mog and rose 300 mmr to 900.
You mean you started queuing?
jolly sierra
can i borrow your t3 pants for a weekend
sure im using dress rn
jolly sierra
just recalled something
we will still need s2 malicia items
cuz the crafted dagger cant be adapted to pvp ilvl
jolly sierra
sub is nerfed af, but dunno beyond that tbh
fossil sierra
I'm playing assas
halcyon timber
sub is nerfed af, but dunno beyond that tbh
Painful af, do no effin damage while dh flaps their butt cheeks around.
jolly sierra
F for sub in this patch
fossil sierra
F for sub in this patch
what should i be doing? rn im opening with double garrot and mfd kidney on KT.
then the usual shiv envemons
should immediately pop Deathmark in shuffle?
halcyon timber
F for sub in this patch
Bring us back to WoD seriously
jolly sierra
what should i be doing? rn im opening with double garrot and mfd kidney on KT.
at least until 2k rating i sapped the healer 3 times if possible, else blind then sap
if he trinketed then i kidney him then go to kill target w garrote and rupture
usually i use deathmark when healer is without trinket for like 2nd or 3rd go
i gouge him then i step to dps kidney then burst with deathmark but with every dot active at first
if trinket isnt forced and i have blind then i blind healer and kidney the dps w bomb
then u can teleport away w step when he gets close and u can gouge him while dps is inside bomb with full deathmark and ur partner is hitting him
your role is more cc and make pressure w that than just focus in doing too much dmg
fossil sierra
can you link your build?
jolly sierra
some games i even won by just keep the healer cced and did very shitty dmg
jolly sierra
can you link your build?
nothing special
fossil sierra
Ok, thanks for the help
jolly sierra
np
jolly bear
another question, what's a decent ilvl to aim for before going into arenas?
potent pivot
another question, what's a decent ilvl to aim for before going into arenas?
just get full honor/wpvp gear and start q'ing for conquest
agile leaf
can i get bloody tokens without any quests? just be ou in hte open wm on just looting?
jolly sierra
just killing innocent people in outdoor can give u bloody tokens too
vocal surge
^
its not a good way to farm tokens
but its something
crates are your best bet
free conquest on 1st chest and a sizeable amount of tokens
after that, the rewards are just bloody tokens
harsh steppe
morning fam
which of these addons could be turning off my actionbar skill numbers? I keep enabling them in settings, & they turn back off somehow
agile leaf
what should i get for my seconds conquest piece?
harsh steppe
weapon
agile leaf
second conquest weap?
harsh steppe
yes
wintry dew
second conquest weap?
Or you could get wpvp weapon 421
Since it will be offhand won't matter as much
And you save the conquest to buy main pieces to convert to tier set
I see that being more profitable than getting 2 conquest weapons
Hyper out here trolling our rogues :p
harsh steppe
ahaha well it's much easier to get the 2nd conq then the wpvp grind but idk
wintry dew
You just need to do the wpvp quest and get like 1 airdrop warcache and you can most likely get the dagger
And the quest will let you instantly upgrade the dagger to 421 pvp
And the wpvp sparks of life quests can be done without doing any pvp
wintry dew
I literally do wquests and pick up some dirt piles / expedition bags
I can do the quest in like 10 minutes
minor cape
second conquest weap?
nop
second weapon is mastery drakebreaker
pretty sure gladiators distinction is boosted with one purple trinket (stamina part) so id get that
not 100% sure tho
surreal barn
Or could get neck and gem it out if you don’t plan on getting lariat
potent pivot
morning fam
which of these addons could be turning off my actionbar skill number...
Omnicd maybe
harsh steppe
nope 😦
exotic dove
nothing special
Your build is the same as mine minus 1 talent. I personally think its the best for me
harsh steppe
here's the settings for them, maybe i have something off? everytime i reload into a new zone numbers is off in my settings; when i turn it on it works fine, but it keeps automatically turning off ugh
harsh steppe
is there an addon that can display the numbers?
potent pivot
is there an addon that can display the numbers?
Addons that display the numbers are one of the big things that’s been causing the errors in my experience
The blizzard setting turns off for me sometimes too, just one of those things you kinda have to deal with
harsh steppe
yah i still get “ignore or disable addons?” errors in the middle of matches causing me to die all the time
unborn portal
potent pivot
yah i still get “ignore or disable addons?” errors in the middle of matches caus...
Need to find the add on causing it and delete it
agile leaf
what do you do with your extra honor so you dont cap out? just buy the marks?
radiant glen
buy offhands and vendor for gold
faint vessel
Is sub dead in pvp? I always seem to need to run away after ambushing someone since I cant kill them.
Wpvp i mean
@harsh steppe do you use sub? Want to check out my tmw profile?
jolly sierra
what do you do with your extra honor so you dont cap out? just buy the marks?
buy marks, level up a plate char and sell cataclysmic glad belts by 15g per mark
agile leaf
buy offhands and vendor for gold
is this srs?
radiant glen
this is what I do with extra honor
agile leaf
you guys have all the mark mounts?
radiant glen
no
jolly sierra
yes, every of them
glad mason
It feels so pointless queueing this class lmao
waxen meteor
Damn
agile leaf
can you add sockets to crimson glad neck?
agile leaf
its that tiered medallion or w/e its called right?
agile leaf
think i am going to buy the neck for my second conquest piece, i already got the weapon first, the rest is honor blues
tribal badger
its the only level 70 one
glad mason
Man I've dumpstered my cr and mmr
surreal barn
The best way for them to change the spec is to queue and see us getting our asses whipped. Thank you for doing your part.
dull bridge
there's a play with the blues this weekend isn't there
agile leaf
whats going on 6pm est?
quaint cedar
play with the blues pvp on the 10.1 ptr
quaint cedar
don't even have to let them its just inevitable lol
on ptr I do basically the same damage as live even with full S2 gear
but now everyone is running around with 500k HP
also the new outlaw tier is so awful
I'm doing more damage using my S1 tier set
not by much mind you, just a tiny bit
this is a total joke
tribal badger
outlaw tier is still very bugged but yea its pretty bad rn
surreal barn
Man it was so funny witnessing paladins as gods these past few weeks
tribal badger
it went from 25% of ur overall to ~3%
surreal barn
I know we got stomped but it made for some hilarious clips
tribal badger
and it double dips armor 
jolly sierra
I know we got stomped but it made for some hilarious clips
like akrololz being killed inside a stun in awc?
surreal barn
like akrololz being killed inside a stun in awc?
Missed that one haha
quaint cedar
yup S2 tier set is actually worthless unless they tune up the numbers
quaint cedar
double dipping armor? does that mean it gets reduced by armor twice or something?
tribal badger
yes
keen dune
How are sub and assa?
quaint cedar
why is the 2set even being affected by armor? it's a dot
tribal badger
the damage u do to cause 2set is impacted by armor (obviously cause all ur damage is physical)
and the physical dot itself is armor impacte
because they forgot to make it a bleed
its just a physical dot
quaint cedar
ohh lmao
that's garbo
I was dueling a warrior on ptr and it was legit ticking for 1k damage
tribal badger
4set is calculating its damage based off 1 tick of the dot not the entire thing
which is why 4set damage is worthless
quaint cedar
and we have 500k HP lol
yeah makes sense, the 4 set was hitting for 2k so that adds up
tribal badger
so 4set is basically doing
1.25% damage
when it should be doing 10%
if they fix the bugs the set might be ok but not enough to make outlaw strong
keen dune
Outlaw seems rough tbh idk how you guys do it
quaint cedar
agreed we need real buffs not stupid piss like 5%
I got 2400 with outlaw in shuffle this season but I'm actually unsubbed now
I just am not having fun anymore
ret meta broke me
jolly sierra
this fkn season makes me impatient af
cuz i know there will be tuning for rogs
but in that moment
jolly bear
hey guys what pvp ilvl do I need to not get deleted by someone breathing in my direction
tribal badger
i dont even do skirm events for alt conquest on my law anymore tbh
jolly sierra
while we need to wait and suffer
tribal badger
feels like you have zer agency
if a rets in the arena
trying to keep ur partner up or survive through 2 hard immunities and wings
zzzzzzzz
quaint cedar
cuz i know there will be tuning for rogs
logically I agree but I can't help but succumb to full doomer at this point. outlaw has been ignored this whole season and I no longer believe the devs will ever help
jolly sierra
logically I agree but I can't help but succumb to full doomer at this point. out...
maybe dissapearing from meta will make them tune us again
quaint cedar
I sure hope so
agile leaf
sorry for n00b question, but what gems would i be putting into a neck?
jolly sierra
tbh if im outclassed and unable to reach 1k8 like usual for first weeks i'll just hide in RBGs
as rog
i stlll need the vault
quaint cedar
I can't even decide if I want to resub or not
part of me wants to at least try
but another part of me hates giving blizzard $15 just to fuck me over
jolly sierra
the other thing u can do
is resub and farm plants w ores so u stop giving them money directly and u have for BMAH shit
i never paid for a sub again since the token was added
quaint cedar
true I actually have a decent amount of gold
little over 2 mil
idk what tokens cost nowadays
jolly sierra
are u from US?
quaint cedar
yeah
jolly sierra
sorry for n00b question, but what gems would i be putting into a neck?
zen neltharite and one of them should be a mastery diamond
jolly sierra
probably because russian players have to use tokens right?
🅱️erhaps
agile leaf
zen neltharite and one of them should be a mastery diamond
tyvm
quaint cedar
before 10.0.7 I'd agree with that, but with the current meta I'd say we're more like low B or C tier. and in 10.1....looking like F tier unless we get buffs
jolly sierra
but thought than venezuelan runescape farmers were a thing in wow too
quaint cedar
How do you deal with rets and demo locks? They are unkillable and they stop you from killing their teammates too.
Granted I haven't played in weeks so idk maybe after the 5th round of ret nerfs its ok?
Oh you're talking about assa
I meant outlaw
No such thing
Outlaw has been good in pvp before
No
It was busted in SL because it received a ton of pvp specific buffs
Including new pvp talents
Seems odd to me that a "pve" spec would get a bunch of new pvp talents and pvp damage buffs
Dude I actually played it back then
You're wrong
Outlaw was really good in S2
It just didn't catch on yet
The pve buffs weren't even that substantial
Literally not true but ok
That's the dumbest argument I ever heard
We still have the same talents, float just got moved to a regular talent
They didn't delete anything
You have 0 clue
Float is exactly the same
They did not
Unless you're talking about a nerf that happened in SL
Which did nothing to change its S tier status
You're mistaking terrible tuning and devs not giving a shit about pvp with a deliberate act to make outlaw a "pve" spec
Whatever the fuck that means
What a stupid take
Specs come and go in pvp all the time
Fire mage used to be a meme spec in pvp, then it became the dominant mage spec for multiple expansions
Frost was always the best pvp spec before
Yeah because your argument makes 0 sense
tribal badger
subs the best rogue spec in pve tho what makes u think they see it as pvp focused
idk where ur getting this idea
quaint cedar
Sub is literally the best pve spec right now
tribal badger
id need a link to that cause i dont ever recall reading it
not in the last expac at least
quaint cedar
Never heard that before dude
tribal badger
can you link just a single time
because i do watch those dev interviews and such
and i dont recall them ever saying anything remotely similar to that about pvp
quaint cedar
Then why is the "pvp" rogue spec the best in pve and bad in pvp?
tribal badger
thats why im confused
theyve said things like "historically X/Y/Z spec were considered a pvp spec"
because that was a thing they used to do back in like, wotlk etc
we had entire expacs where specs were near useless in pve but the best in pvp
quaint cedar
Ok, so why isn't outlaw's current state just bad tuning?
tribal badger
but that hasnt been a thing for several expansions at least
quaint cedar
Exactly, that's why every spec has aoe and single target builds
Cuz no one likes being told that your spec doesn't work in X content
Devs haven't designed the game that way in years
Dude
tribal badger
then why did they give it so many pvp talents in the class tree
quaint cedar
They did
tribal badger
yes id say they do considering we've seen tanks in awc this expac and tank tuning for pvp specifically and tanks can even queue up for soloq (please dont)
quaint cedar
Tanks do have a place in RBGs
So yeah probably to a small degree
And blizzard refused to ban tanks from shuffle because, in their words, no player should be prevented from doing content they want to do based on their spec
tribal badger
idk why they gave law compensation buffs in pvp specifically to offset the crit nerf if law is a pve spec
seems like wasted effort
quaint cedar
They can't even balance the dps and healers correctly. I think tanks are just low priority
chrome schooner
Reading all of that, Outlaw did receive insane PvP specific buffs right with patch 9.1, season 2, and became really, really strong then already, although it was slept on, and it got even better in S3/S4 because it benefitted better than most specs from all the borrowed powers stacking
But they did make it good "in pvp" through "pvp changes"
quaint cedar
Pack it up boys. Lopez says we can't play outlaw in pvp anymore
tribal badger
idk how u can see all the pvp specific tuning laws received in the last 2 expacs and assume law is a pve spec
quaint cedar
Guess blizz should take away my 2400 in shuffle since I wrongfully earned it on a pve spec
tribal badger
id still love for you to link a single interview or blue post where they say they see some specs as pvp specific and some as pve specific
chrome schooner
also outlaw/combat was good in pvp in wod and then in some legion patches, seems like a stretch to say "SL WAS THE LAST TIME FOREVER" despite it happening several times in the past
tribal badger
just find me one example from the last 2 expacs
ur claiming it like its an obvious thing everyone knows and i dont remember any of the interviews with them touching on pvp in that light. they rarely even mention pvp
tribal badger
also outlaw/combat was good in pvp in wod and then in some legion patches, seems...
everytime its happened its been a fluke i believe
is what the response would be
quaint cedar
There is no information you are spouting nonsense
tribal badger
I mean i personally believe you just made that up because again i follow the class design/general design posts pretty closely and cant recall ever reading that
would be a very bold thing for them to ever admit to
feel like you misread them saying historically this has been the case because that was true
back in cata and pre cata era specs like sub and frost were relegated to pvp only and didnt get to set foot in pve basically ever
but that hasnt been the case for a very long time
chrome schooner
The facts are, Combat was busted broken tier in WoD, was really good at several moments in legion (so much so that it could win the finals of the latest tournament in legion), was good in SL S2, was suuuuper busted broken tier in SL S3, and still S+ in SL S4
These are facts
quaint cedar
Lmao are you serious??? Blizzard cares so little about pvp. You really think they deleted an entire spec because pvp??? Good one man
chrome schooner
With all that information you can see that over the last 4 expansions it was good half the time
So it's a bit unrealistic to say
"it will never be good again"
that's it
Doesn't matter
It was good in PvP
We talk about PvP
quaint cedar
Wasn't there a season of BFA it was good too?
chrome schooner
It doesn't matter that the REASON has been tied to PvE SOMETIMES
chrome schooner
Wasn't there a season of BFA it was good too?
It was okay in the first but Assa was miles better
quaint cedar
Pretty sure I remember an awc where whaaz and pika played it
chrome schooner
But it was good yeah
quaint cedar
Ah gotcha
chrome schooner
But the, that's not really true, because based off the past, Outlaw became really good in PvP, all the way up from unviable, due to pure PvP changes a few seasons ago (being SL S2)
There's no reason why it couldn't happen again
Sometimes these blizzard guys
One day one comes into the daily meeting
"GUYS"
"I HAVE SUCH A GOOD TALENT IDEA LOOK ITS FUN"
And boom
A spec becomes broken
So
Ahah it wasn't mediocre at all
Some people, myself included, actually played it then, and it was FAR from mediocre
It is (was?) just not very popular, largely unknown, people didn't really know how to play it properly in PvP as the way to play with buffs isn't the same as in PvE always, so it ended up being slept on
But it was a really good spec
Not meta breaking yet, 'cause no set plus legendary stacking, but it was still very good
There is a reason why many people shot to 2.7 before the super inflation hit as outlaw in both brackets
And the reason is
the spec was great
quaint cedar
My very first season of arena was SL S2 and I played outlaw to 2100
I wasn't even good at the game
Outlaw was fantastic in S2
chrome schooner
Then maybe you should have looked better
:p
The meta became outlaw in S3
Because it was BROKEN
No one said Outlaw was BROKEN in S2
But it was really good
It's very different
A really good spec doesn't become the meta when there are 5 broken ones next to it
A spec isn't "mediocre" if it's not played by 95% of a tournament or more
You need to review your definition of things
quaint cedar
Yeah and outlaw was previously the worst spec, and it's a bit niche and weird to play, so it took a while to catch on
chrome schooner
Outlaw was good, period
Any actually competent Rogue who knows how to play it and isn't a meta spec rider, and has some memory that goes beyond his last 2 weeks, will tell you that Outlaw was a good spec in SL S2
quaint cedar
Even in S3 it took like 2-3 months to catch on
chrome schooner
???
Again
Not broken
Not better than anything
Good
Spec
How is that hard to understand ?
Not really no
glad mason
Are you practicing selective reading here or what
chrome schooner
The bar to go from mediocre to good is certainly not "be better than anything else"
That would be very stupid
Today Outlaw has less damage than it had, it's also less tanky, and it has less CC in a game where everyone got more CC, when its advantages over the rest of the game back in SL were tankiness and CC with good sustained, it's not difficult to see why it's not good right now
harsh steppe
yah & outlaw is gonna be really good in 10.1
chrome schooner
But yeah, Outlaw became really good when it got Float & Brawler
SL S2
Didn't become a meta breaking spec yet, didn't become a ret war killer or a sub holy fire anihilator yet as it still missed some power
But you could play it and wouldn't be hindered by the power of the spec up until really high
With all I said tho I never said with the current patch notes it WILL be good next season right
It needs more than it has right now in the current expansion imo
tribal badger
its just numerically undertuned in both pve and pvp rn which is why its weird for me to try to view it as a pve only spec
it still has unique things to make it strong
quaint cedar
Right now I think outlaw just needs some meaningful (not 5% lol) damage buffs and some defensive buffs
quaint cedar
Blade flurry cleave is real strong too if the overall numbers weren't too low
tribal badger
but thats sorta all rogue specs rn
harsh steppe
/console scriptErrors 0
fixed it lol
scarlet shell
outlaw just needs tankiness but not guardian tank ofc
just make me a brawler in a fight club
not some breakable twig with no damage
vocal surge
Shadowlands S2 Outlaw was well balanced
S3 and S4 was the opposite only due to too much borrowed power lol
scarlet shell
i came back to this game in S3 and mainly S4
i loved Concealed Blunderbuss Flag
i would always practice on a training dummy
good times
except i get outclassed by other outlaws
quaint cedar
Me too! I don't understand why we got sepsis in our tree instead of flag
scarlet shell
to nerf it
vocal surge
It would've made sense for Flag to be on the right side of the tree for me
scarlet shell
sepsis is bad but they needed to reign outlaw
quaint cedar
Flag would be so juicy right now with all the combo points we generate
scarlet shell
which worked
quaint cedar
They could have done that with tuning instead of poor design choices
scarlet shell
i think foreverguy mentioned that flag would be bad rn, but that was a long time ago aka during the introduction of talent trees.
vocal surge
Could
Flagellation only does damage
it required a legendary power to give us versatility (via Unity or Covenant Legendary)
vocal surge
¯_(ツ)_/¯
quaint cedar
Who knows
scarlet shell
and they dont even use it
vocal surge
Sepsis made sense for HO side
scarlet shell
LMAO
vocal surge
but its too niche to use and the dispel works against it's favor in PvP
scarlet shell
ofc Bone Spike is just easily the best thing from SL
for rogues
so ofc assa loves em
quaint cedar
I played all of the covenants except for necro so never had SBS
I agree I feel like it's unneeded
scarlet shell
I liked GSW Echoing until i discovered a few bugs with Echoing reprimand
vocal surge
So
Imagine having this buttery smooth rotation as Outlaw
and then stuff this 1 ability that breaks that smoothness
and thats SBS
quaint cedar
ER was so clunky for outlaw with all the randomness to the combo point generation
vocal surge
I never had trouble playing around ER especially w. the Unity legendary
Didn't use an addon for it as well
vocal surge
I just counted by combo points
vocal surge
2,3,4,5
2,3,5
3,5
3
2,3,4,5
quaint cedar
I played with ER just fine, just didn't prefer it
vocal surge
Flag in my experience
was pretty easy to counter on the enemy side
in S3/4
CC'd both enemies
then when I pop Flag
quaint cedar
Main thing that annoyed me was the tier set giving you a random combo point right when you press dispatch and then you miss your blue point
scarlet shell
i hope my damage will be grand in dungeons and raiding
bc i dont see outlaw surviving 10.1 pvp
scarlet shell
i might have to pull out with my main rogue
quaint cedar
Well hate to disappoint but
vocal surge
I dont see a reason to upgrade to the new tier set
quaint cedar
Outlaw is poop in pve too
scarlet shell
i have many other rogue alts Subs ~~ and Assas~~
scarlet shell
Outlaw is poop in pve too
true, its a rock and a hard place
vocal surge
until I have pretty much a full set of conquest gear
vocal surge
they haven't changed Maneuverability to its 10.0 and earlier version in PTR?
scarlet shell
hey at least it wont get nerfed after 10.1 
vocal surge
x)
scarlet shell
so any of you playing with the blues soon?
quaint cedar
I'm planning on it
scarlet shell
i might have to do a little intentionally fucking up if you know what i mean.
quaint cedar
Ptr still works even though I'm unsubbed
vocal surge
Haven't PvP'd or participated in PvE much after the 1st Playing with Blues
scarlet shell
time to make outlaw look bad in general so they can buff it haha
quaint cedar
Dude you don't even have to try, trust me
vocal surge
If theres a player with slows and roots
scarlet shell
whilst also looking good in my shredder mog
quaint cedar
After they "fixed" the tier set...
vocal surge
you dont do damage
quaint cedar
It's pretty bad lmao
vocal surge
Even warriors
have more mobility than Outlaw
or Rogues in general
Paladins can potentially have more mobility as well
scarlet shell
ofc i am not gonna intentionally die, just gonna display how much dance dance revolution i have to do to even do half a warrior's Health bar
scarlet shell
1/4 if i am lucky
quaint cedar
I was dueling a warrior earlier today on ptr
I could not touch him at all unless he was CC'd or I had evasion up
scarlet shell
i had to fold from a duel bc a warrior bladestormed me near death
quaint cedar
Otherwise he would just flatten me
vocal surge
Any of yall available for PTR rn?
scarlet shell
ye
quaint cedar
I can be soon
quaint cedar
Hell yeah
scarlet shell
i will watch bc i might be next to a dummy
i have been next to the same dummy for the longest time playing ptr
quaint cedar
I just need like 15 ish minutes
scarlet shell
jfc i am next to it
surreal barn
Share screen let’s see the #s
vocal surge
471k w. +5% stamina
30k-ish less than the average fully geared player
make that 30k to 50k diff
tribal badger
New set 4piece is still bugged and 2set is double dipping armor
So its pretty bad rn
vocal surge
It really does 0 damage lol
quaint cedar
alright I'm ready now. where you guys at?
vocal surge
Valdrakken
vocal surge
name-server?
quaint cedar
kleever-benedictus
scarlet shell
god i am like so shit at dueling
got schooled twice, normally its the other way round but i am hella tired and got stuff tommorow
anyways i will try elusiveness again
scarlet shell
ill be back just gotta do some things
spark echo
hey guys... anyone here using shadowedUF ? it drives me crazy that it uses raid frames instead of party in arena and im getting desperate :((
quaint cedar
we determined that S1 and S2 tier set are pretty equivalent in damage, but it seems better to run the S2 tier set just for the extra stats, mainly the HP
for outlaw
outlaw feels really weird to me on the ptr
sometimes I kidney and pop CDs and actually hurt people
and other times their health bar doesn't move at all
I did get a 5-1 in one of the play with the blues shuffles
so if outlaw gets nerfed more guess it's my fault lmao
jolly sierra
we determined that S1 and S2 tier set are pretty equivalent in damage, but it se...
yeah, think so, also more agility baseline, but are u sure the crappy 4set is good?
faint vessel
Anyone climb with 2 sub rogues in 2x2 using dampening? Does it work? Ie wait it stealth until 80%+ dampening before dueling?
quaint cedar
what about assa? have u seen someone running that?
I saw 2 assa rogues. First one was in a shuffle with me, him, arms warrior, and a destro lock. The arms warrior just flattened all of us. He was doing legit like double the damage of everyone else in the lobby.
Second assa rogue was in a shuffle where I only got to play 1 round because someone quit. In that round I killed the assa rogue.
tbh assa seems kinda bad. still extremely squishy, and the damage didn't seem very threatening
he was doing about the same as me, maybe a little less idk, while being even squishier than me as outlaw
I have no idea how good of players they were. from my perspective they seemed fine but hard to tell on ptr
jolly sierra
tbh assa seems kinda bad. still extremely squishy, and the damage didn't seem ve...
that is good for me at least
that means inc buffs tho
quaint cedar
yeah, think so, also more agility baseline, but are u sure the crappy 4set is go...
the 4 set is not good at all. however it is bugged, so hopefully when the bug is fixed it will be alright
even without being bugged tho probably still way undertuned
jolly sierra
w the pirate from this discord we tested it and was very weak compared to 2set from same season
jolly sierra
being realistic, im 100% sure will be buffed at least in pvp
cuz the situation fucked almost everything from them
quaint cedar
yeah true
and also all 3 rogues specs are like bottom tier in pve
so even if they dont buff us for pvp
we should get pve buffs at least
which will trickle down to pvp
I hope anyways lol
quaint cedar
exactly
from doing the play with the blues thing today, I do think the game overall feels better. I like slower paced games and the crit nerf did seem to slow things down quite a bit
so if blizzard can just get the balancing right, that would be great
warriors seem omega broken
one of the warriors in a BG did 18 mil damage
I did 10 mil
literally double my damage
and the warrior in my shuffle was doing 50k dps every round
while being CC'd lol
jolly sierra
holy shit
sounds like the new FOTM
tbh i like slow paced games too, felt more natural compared to 1 shots in a global
tribal badger
like arms hasnt been borderline fotm the entire season already lul
feel like after the first set of pvp tuning this expac arms just got really good but its always just under the best op spec of the moment
the last time it got nerfed it just swapped to the 300k damage bleed cooldown ability and basically ignored the nerf
jolly sierra
question
are warrs easier than rets in playstyle?
tribal badger
pretty sure its the second highest represented spec in high rated 3v3 arena rn
just under pre nerf ret
dont think so no
but not much harder
their burst go is also far more unavoidable
charge in, pop avatar + roar
boom u just did 300k damage to all 3 targets hit with a bleed
now u can Bstorm and MS for more fun while they all bleed out
heroic shout or w/e is insane
jolly sierra
think can hold a warrior for FOTM between seasons
they have access to entire elite arsenal
tribal badger
i might finish leveling mine to try to grind out this last elite appearence
just seems super strong and maybe even stronger next tier
jolly sierra
even daggers