im sure theres more pvp talents in the works 
#pvp
tribal badger
mage got a massive new pvp talent to help it out in the new reduced cc meta
and mage and rogue are the two iconic setup/cc specs
waxen meteor
They are taking out the iconic 6s kidney and blind sap
jolly sierra
do u think hemorrhage should come back?
tribal badger
not particularly hemo was a thing before sin became the defacto bleed spec
honestly a pvp talent like "backstab and shadowstrike do X% bonus damage when cast from behind" would hark back to old subs flavor and allow you to add more sustain to sub with some brain requirement
when ur getting trained ud only really get the bonus in stuns etc but u could also do fair sustain with it when ur not getting trained
hollow sundial
Heyo, I made this thread a couple days ago talking about a sub rogue rework I and @halcyon timber made. https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/copium-of-a-sub-rogue-pvp/1562331/32
We just finished up our Assassination Tree, and would like some opinions before I post it on the forums.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15LSm9P7JKfn5MsNBGCzA2t4PVkGAvcHvDUIZaLvmaas/edit?usp=sharing
jolly sierra
lemme see as assa
fine already checked
u wanna give more importance to mut and envenom as spender and finisher respectively, something is good
hollow sundial
dead ass
waxen meteor
of course a 1k6 player
hollow sundial
i stopped taking him seriously after he said bfa was balanced
waxen meteor
dead from a cheap shoot
jolly sierra
however the main problem of assa RN is its lack of survival compared to another specs, also, don't think is a good idea to make assa a swordwielder w mut, neither a blade rush w mut
sounds like outlaw imo
double poisoning should stay too tho
by passive
jolly sierra
aoe shiv wtf
wanna see that profile
XDDDDDDDD
u are doing well guys, but imo need to hone another things too
that druid is a pve player
100% sure is the one which slaps his r.io after u kill him in outdoor KEK
lemme read ur general tree now again guys, i know u did some modifications there
jolly sierra
rework cheat death too
halcyon timber
Agreed w the immunity part you said the other day
jolly sierra
that is the thing, i was thinking something like this
hollow sundial
rework cheat death too
big agree on that one
jolly sierra
lethal hit hits u
u get healed till 7%
u are inmune for 1s
after that, reduced dmg by 85% for a couple of seconds
the inmune part will cover spare dmg from stuff like glacial pike additional dmg after hitting so will avoid getting u dead and looking like was bugged
after discussing that just feel is flawed for current gameplay
any spec which can do simultaneous volley of attacks in a death situation will just bypass the proc
waxen meteor
aoe shiv wtf
yeah that was where i started laughing
and started to look at the hater's profile
jolly sierra
yeah that was where i started laughing
sounds like a meme 800 cr build
seems like the highest that guy reached is rival
waxen meteor
yeah by reading the statement you can almost tell anyway
I understand noobs hate rogue
they just want to zug zug zug
jolly sierra
also, vendetta should stay like in its old incarnation, i played ww monk pre rework as a raider (not lfr ofc) and sef was flawed for single combat
waxen meteor
and if you got cced you cannot zug
jolly sierra
if u wanna bring it back
waxen meteor
and if you are noob, you are stunned to die
that hurt your feeling
but what he/she needs to do is just to be a normal pvp player
jolly sierra
if u are stunlocked and u cant do zugzug u cry
waxen meteor
cannot be a way sub average guy/lady and keep complaining
it's not asking you to be a prof
jolly sierra
maybe imagine chars in pvp are sentient instead npc which follows patrons
waxen meteor
i don't know, maybe in 10.1 we will get that pvp
jolly sierra
pve players usually are very bad in pvp for a lot of stuff
waxen meteor
i am looking forward to 3 sec kidney one day
jolly sierra
one of these are cuz they get used to encounter patrons
OOF
imagine 1s gouge and 2s blind
halcyon timber
don't put those thoughts in their head
jolly sierra
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
still think sin doesn't need a heavy rework compared to sub
also checked story wise and sub was way better in pvp
ur healing parts however are very good
the other issue is outlaw tho, think ur priority is there too
w RNG based dmg issue
waxen meteor
tbh i think blizzard is in a bad mind set fundementally
not every spec of a class needs to work in both pvp and pve equally good every season
it's absolutly normal some specs are ahead in pve for one season and behind for another
jolly sierra
yeah agree
waxen meteor
it looks like they spent SO MUCH energy to make sure every spec supposes to work equally good
but it's not necessary
jolly sierra
imo they think in make everything equally good to allow ppl to play anything
waxen meteor
what's wrong if outlaw is good at pve, when sub is good at pvp
it could be swapped next season or it could stay like that as in TBC WLK etc.
jolly sierra
if they doesn't wanna lack of balance
halcyon timber
I just want to stab a primary target, eff aoe
jolly sierra
then they should stop doing legos and shit from raids for specific classes
like w that fkn bow from raszageth
halcyon timber
Eggzackary
waxen meteor
I think they just badly need someone with a vision
not just okay people complain, i follow
have a brain
and do the right thing
don't make everything do the same thing with same number
tribal badger
u guys r largely overestimating how many resources they put into pvp period
hasty holly
rng fucking sucks, it’s weird that classes based around rng(like crit) will usually have crutches to make it more manageable but rogue doesn’t
halcyon timber
the other issue is outlaw tho, think ur priority is there too
Yeah we are taking roll the skids out and reworking it to just scuff mfs. No more weak boy K spree and such.
jolly sierra
they got us nerfed cuz were hearing 1200 cr ppl
tribal badger
mostly they design the game around pve, and then the pvp dev tries to use the tools they have to balance those pve specs in pvp
waxen meteor
u guys r largely overestimating how many resources they put into pvp period
yeah but it doesn't mean it's right
tribal badger
theres a reason talent trees arent generally made with pvp in mind
this is a pve game
pvp has always been a sidegame
jolly sierra
instead persons in like 1800-3k stable in every season
waxen meteor
then delete pvp
tribal badger
why?
waxen meteor
remove awc
tribal badger
people still like playing it
people still watch that
despite the complaints and such
jolly sierra
Yeah we are taking roll the skids out and reworking it to just scuff mfs. No mor...
gl w that, tbh cant help anymore there, is out my spec XD
waxen meteor
but you said it's just a side game lol
tribal badger
yes and?
halcyon timber
Like ffxiv where you cant attack people in the open world
halcyon timber
And bgs suck there
waxen meteor
it doesn't mean it supposed to be crap
tribal badger
no i dont think its supposed to be crap, just that they are never going to commit a ton of resources to it
waxen meteor
you are being extreme and mix things with a concept without quantifying it
tribal badger
because a vast majority of the playerbase dont interface with it
halcyon timber
gl w that, tbh cant help anymore there, is out my spec XD
Yeah i hear you, im subtlety only and always will be
tribal badger
what
waxen meteor
whatever
tribal badger
to be clear i never said they SHOULDNT pay more attention to pvp or i think thats good
ur assuming alot here
im just talking about what i know about the dev team
and historically how they do/have designed
jolly sierra
pvp is a side game yeah, but if u wanna make shit decent then make changes unaffected in pvp like they often does
waxen meteor
then what are you trying to say here, sorry?
they have few people, that's not a reason
jolly sierra
sometimes we are thrashed for that
waxen meteor
yeah i understand it's a dead game without much revenue
and if you look at blizzard paycheck
their dev makes very few dolalrs
tribal badger
im saying the reason that specs end up the way they do with meh trees or meh design is just that
waxen meteor
hardly making a life at California
tribal badger
the specs are all designed for pve, where they try to balance them
waxen meteor
it doesn't mean ANYTHING
tribal badger
then the pvp devs get pvp talents, a few talent tree talents, and modifiers
to try to make specs "work" in pvp
they dont get to design full talent trees
hasty holly
the specs are all designed for pve, where they try to balance them
aka casters
tribal badger
and they never will under current blizz design
waxen meteor
the point from top to btm it's just lack of vision
but anyway it has been same for the whole company
jolly sierra
imo the problem is w pvp devs tbh
tribal badger
yes thats what this game is pvp is usually an afterthought its just unlucky
waxen meteor
and when you look at the their salary, they just want people to pay their living by love
and passion
tribal badger
i mean id say the problem is with blizz as a company, they choose to design like this
jolly sierra
i really dislike holinka (either as a meme and a dev) and has its reasons
halcyon timber
love them for trying hard at least
waxen meteor
the thing is, we don't need to expand the topic too much
hasty holly
isn’t that a lot of video game companies, they’ll undercut their employees because “omg i’m working at my favorite video game company!!!”
jolly sierra
i really think he need to be replaced
waxen meteor
a mobile game makes way more than wow
jolly sierra
100%
waxen meteor
that's common
halcyon timber
yeah most def
waxen meteor
the business model is dated
and you have all/most devs in California which also makes no sense nowadays
but the thing is, it doesn't matter to players
if you cannot afford to keep a game living
jolly sierra
think they close their HQ in versalles, did they?
hasty holly
why make a good game when you can put microtransactions in some mobile garbage and 50/60 year olds with no life will buy them no matter what
waxen meteor
don't make stupid fundamental decisions
hasty holly
i’m curious how much classic renewed blizzard’s finances
since classic is just straight fucking dead outside of the hardcore servers
jolly sierra
the thing is
potent pivot
classic didn't really bring any game sales, just brought back some monthly subs
jolly sierra
even as a pve based game
potent pivot
not a huge amount of money i'd imagine
hasty holly
classic’s pvp is worse imo
potent pivot
it's 15 year old pvp
jolly sierra
they doesn't need to do stuff 100% thinking in pve, for some reason some abilities and talents in tree are useless in pve
potent pivot
that was figured out 15 years ago
you can't expect it to be good imo
just nostalgic
hasty holly
ffxiv’s pvp is notoriously bad
halcyon timber
yeh it sucks
hasty holly
blizzard kinda has a corner in the mmo pvp market with retail
jolly sierra
em
halcyon timber
10 sec immunity to cc because people got whopped on in shatter and couldn't get garo event transmogs
waxen meteor
that wasn't their decision
Well if you ask your supplier to have 20% of share of profit what do you think
hasty holly
china’s very fickle
halcyon timber
xD
potent pivot
the company in china has been working on their own wow copy for who knows how long
waxen meteor
Lol like where
potent pivot
probably to prepare to break away from blizzard/activision
hasty holly
the company in china has been working on their own wow copy for who knows how lo...
20 bucks says it’s complete garbage
potent pivot
Lol like where
maybe research before you say things ;)
hasty holly
if china was going to make a decent mmo they would have done it by now
waxen meteor
?
I don’t know where your ? Come from, but it has been very clear based on net ease what happened
jolly sierra
trickz im waiting for the sauce too
waxen meteor
And wow is like 10% of a netease mobile game revenue
jolly sierra
im 100% sure wasn't for that they broke contract
waxen meteor
Btw, online Mmo is dead in Asia anyway
potent pivot
im 100% sure wasn't for that they broke contract
it's called 'Tarisland' i believe
jolly sierra
meh
waxen meteor
Yeah it’s more like a client version of genshin
jolly sierra
unless they do something brand new
potent pivot
it has a lot of similarities to wow
jolly sierra
will fail
potent pivot
races, classes, mechanics
jolly sierra
as always
waxen meteor
You can say there are similarities but apparently for netease it’s not even a major project
potent pivot
that wasn't my point
waxen meteor
And not to mention when blizzard ended the collaboration, decided to ask supplier to support service while they look for next supplier
potent pivot
my point had nothing to do with the substance of the game itself
potent pivot
the point is that they seemed fully prepared to cut things off
waxen meteor
Has been quite few months
Netease posted publicly that blizzard asked for a significant raise of profit share
Which directly led to end of negotiations
Blizzard just answered all other points but this
Do you think they might choose not to answer this point for a reason?
potent pivot
waxen meteor
It’s typical finance world
potent pivot
what they talked about behind closed doors is really none of my business
jolly sierra
still netease was shit as a wow provider
waxen meteor
Public company wants to make better numbers for share
tribal badger
why is this relevant tho to the game itself
wow didnt die in china because of the game design
jolly sierra
have u seen how it worked when u log in?
just harassed by random whispers and services
potent pivot
it's always been that way
even back in the day NA had a lot of asian advertising in game didn't it
jolly sierra
dunno, im from eu
waxen meteor
wow didnt die in china because of the game design
We were discussing about fundamental bad decisions that led to less revenue less profit and eventually led to your point, few resources
jolly sierra
another thing which are beating resources alongside subs is than they are hearing feedback in wrong places or don't hearing in anything
for example for wod
the lowest sub xp
they shortened all the game to just 2 raid patches and having 1 big patch just introducing useless content
tribal badger
ok but wow has never in its history had an extensive pvp dev team
because they just dont put resources towards that
not to the degree we'd all like
jolly sierra
when ppl was mad about that
tribal badger
it doesnt have to do with its sales or numbers
jolly sierra
blizzard didn't did anything
waxen meteor
Lol
jolly sierra
and subs dropped like rain
hasty holly
they didn’t get the same fanbase as league when it comes to pvp
jolly sierra
then fix fkn pvp hearing good ppl to make it objectively more inclusive
hasty holly
there’s no point in trying to make it a big esport now
jolly sierra
fuck racials fuck pve tiers
waxen meteor
That’s true I am just saying it’s not related to sales and number are inaccurate
It’s totally related
hasty holly
and frankly i’d rather not have to hear about “korean meta”
tribal badger
im saying you have no proof
because even in this games hayday
when it was making peak sales
they didnt have a big pvp dev team
they have never. pvp has always been a "side game" to blizz
its unfortunate
waxen meteor
But tbh those days you don’t need adjustment every week to play pvp
tribal badger
wdym specs just spend the entire season being broken
jolly sierra
lol
tribal badger
all more tuning does is flip flop the meta more
specs werent less or more broken back then
thats some rose colored nonsense
waxen meteor
Some specs can be totally not for pvp
I don’t see problems
The way outlaw was designed like tbc is just not for pvp
What’s wrong
jolly sierra
u don't need to make everything broken
just make everything not look like a 1s one shot shitshow
potent pivot
dude just replace holinka and put someone decent there
i don't think that would solve anything at all
waxen meteor
Well anyway, let’s see if Diablo 4 works
jolly sierra
i don't think that would solve anything at all
recently pvp balancing was very bad
potent pivot
kind of... off the wall to just keep bashing one guy
waxen meteor
I think if Diablo 4 fails the company is basically dead
Last hit
But at least pre sales numbers are good
jolly sierra
yeah
potent pivot
when i'm sure he's done everything he can within his parameters of his job
jolly sierra
in shadowlands
tribal badger
i feel like the ret full rework just ruined the season
oh i thought u meant this expac
potent pivot
he can't just magically do whatever he wants i'm sure
jolly sierra
shadowlands scared a lot of players from pvp
hasty holly
they still got that microsoft acquisition in the wings
jolly sierra
dude saying "fire holinka" isn't a meme for nothing
waxen meteor
they can sell more skins like dota
jolly sierra
in shadowlands u had ppl 1 shotting in 0.2s in s1
potent pivot
most r1s and awc competitors i've heard talk about holinka love him to death
and they begged for him to be the head of pvp when he wasn't
so
...
jolly sierra
most r1s and awc competitors i've heard talk about holinka love him to death
r1 opinions are very disperse tho, look at cdew and venruki tweets from recently
cant say is 100% accurate to say "most"
potent pivot
cdew has 0 credibility imo
waxen meteor
That’s a tricky part of wow pvp, r1 players tend to have different opinions because they always play with and play against other pros, and in game exp seems a lot different from let’s say even some elite players.
jolly sierra
still a r1
potent pivot
idc what he tweets
waxen meteor
But other games like dota, when you see pro teams run something, it’s almost certain it’s gonna work for pub games
Where in wow, hmm
jolly sierra
the thing is
u can't have a decent pvp balancing without a decent team
waxen meteor
You see pikaboo do sth, it doesn’t always work for most
jolly sierra
most decisions for tuning this patch was just because noobs cried in forums for ccs
waxen meteor
they still got that microsoft acquisition in the wings
Yeah honestly from finance stand point, I think that’s why they want to get more profit share in one of biggest market
To prove my ability to make profit
And ensure your RoI
I am actually a bit surprised how good Diablo 4 sells
Let’s see if it can give more juice to blizzard and build some confidence to wow
hasty holly
the isometric-esque design felt dated but i guess not
as a non-diablo player of course
jolly sierra
anyways look at this lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/12hmjz5/cheater/
waxen meteor
But I feel even Diablo works, it just means they will look for better profit rate, just get more dev to Diablo from wow
tribal badger
sure i mean mmorpgs r a pretty dying genre
theres a reason so few come out now a day, really takes a serious passion project to get them moving
waxen meteor
Yeah
The time required is too much
Compared to mobile game where you can use pieces of time and you have access everywhere, it’s surely less flexibility
It’s a bit dated ‘life style’ for more and more people
waxen meteor
When you played tbc for example, your whole dom is probably just gonna sit together and play for hours just to have a look at illidan
jolly sierra
u can slap a lot of microbuys there to make stuff easier
waxen meteor
Now it just won’t happen
tribal badger
ya i mean thats why i expect pvp to get worse as the expac goes on
because pvp participation period on the non high end community is probably higher this expac then it ever has been
with the advent of soloq for more casual players
and the accesibility of elite mogs
vast majority of the playerbase is casual
jolly sierra
soloq is a very welcoming change imo
tribal badger
the design direction of less CC and more damage next season seems to follow that line
jolly sierra
but still flawed cuz killed another branches
tribal badger
oh for sure i love soloq i wont complain about it
waxen meteor
Yeah solo q is great
tribal badger
but its def something that lends itself to the more casual gamers
and if they keep trying to target getting more of that playerbase to engage with pvp
its probably going to involve dumbing down pvp somewhat like we are seeing with cc
jolly sierra
u can hear ppl whining sure, but 30m-1h getting mad waiting for a queue
no way
yeah or the 1 game leaver
waxen meteor
At some point it may be even fun to have 3 dps queues
For sure people would say it’s not professional
Just noobs
jolly sierra
they show allow that in low cr
waxen meteor
But maybe it can be fun and professional if you treat it well
I mean in open world it’s probably more common to have 2s or 3s with no healer than with a healer
It’s not entirely bad; depends on how it’s designed
potent pivot
i'd like to see a last man standing version
jolly sierra
yeah
waxen meteor
Well tbh 3s with no healer can be strategic
Those specs with heavy utility would work
rogue op
jolly sierra
kek
is ironic
how ret was the shittiest melee lacking in survival and more dmg pre rework
and now is the scariest pvp spec in game
this rework opened a gate for a lot of ppl asking for 1 too
im sure we aren't the only ones wanting one
blizzard will need to hear
potent pivot
this week was the beginning of the finals iirc
waxen meteor
awc schedule seems really weird
but maybe because i didnt pay enough attention 😦
btw, hope rogue is playble tmr
rotund vapor
Hi guys whats the advantages of sub and disadvantages vs assa rogue
waxen meteor
Hi guys whats the advantages of sub and disadvantages vs assa rogue
Sub: More burst dmg, Better survival
Sin: More continuous pressure
rotund vapor
why is better survival than assa?
potent pivot
2 vanish charges
waxen meteor
why is better survival than assa?
you have double vanish and vanish with shield
and better CD (depends on talent side though)
rotund vapor
where i can find a good guide of sub rogue
potent pivot
there's some general FAQ in #pvp-faq
for more gameplay oriented guides you'll want to check youtube (just keep in mind builds and stuff get outdated fast from videos)
but the core gameplay mostly stays the same
copper maple
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/12h3meo/friend_thinks_hes_good_at_p...
Is this guy really complaining on Reddit about his friend not doing something right in PvP? What a great friend he must be himself 😄
wicked rampart
Was this past weekend not the grand finals for AWC?
I was under the impression that was it
jolly sierra
Is this guy really complaining on Reddit about his friend not doing something ri...
he said his friend wasn't too much into going to sites like reddit
so just posted it there lol
nope, no yet
is not over yet
potent pivot
is not over yet
i think it is actually
i was wrong earlier judging by the wow website
looks like the grand finals are done
unless there's more that just isn't listed there idk
rotund vapor
Where I can find a good guide of sub 10.0.7 roattion for pvp
potent pivot
Where I can find a good guide of sub 10.0.7 roattion for pvp
there's really no fixed rotations in pvp, things vary situationally
if you're trying to find specific opener rotations, you basically just want to get out as much dmg as you can without leaving a gap in your stuns
jolly sierra
i think it is actually
got baited by the title tho
rotund vapor
if you're trying to find specific opener rotations, you basically just want to g...
Thats what I want
potent pivot
i've got no idea i haven't been following the awc very closely this time around
potent pivot
Thats what I want
i'm ngl i've hardly touched sub since the nerfs, @waxen meteor or someone else might have something cooked up though
potent pivot
jolly sierra
you? or me
both? lol
potent pivot
the primary focus of sub openers is just fitting in your globals without leaving a gap in your stuns @rotund vapor
potent pivot
so like if you kidney->shadow dance->strike->evis->etc
waxen meteor
My rogue games weren't that bad tbh
potent pivot
you just want to make sure you cheap shot before your kidney runs out
waxen meteor
but i surely got trained 247
potent pivot
then get another global or two off before the cheap shot ends
waxen meteor
I think I run into a pro priest
potent pivot
and either go for a 2nd cheap shot or change up depending on the situation
waxen meteor
that helped me to survive quite well in that lobby
and even won
preread dispell on bubble
bubble lasted shorter than i noticed
for rogue changes
waxen meteor
yeah i hope at least this week will be more playbale
potent pivot
yeah with ret nerfs i think assa will be a little better
waxen meteor
but i feel demo lock etc. is still hard
potent pivot
but i think we still lack a bit
waxen meteor
not sure if unholy will be new ret 80% etc.
potent pivot
if 10.1 looks better pvp wise i'll get back to playing more actively and update the faq's etc
it not it may end up being a pve season for me 
lone goblet
Does anyone know if the conquest armor tint also unlocks at 1800? or do I have to farm enough conquest to buy each slot.
I remember in shadowlands S3 I was surprised to get the complete conquest set added to my collection at the same time I hit 1800 and got the elite set, but that seems like the kind of thing Blizzard could easily change.
copper maple
You can unlock the non elite set even after season ends
wanton breach
Does anyone know if the conquest armor tint also unlocks at 1800? or do I have ...
elite one does, non-elite still has to be bought with conquest during the season or (very much) later on with marks of honor
lone goblet
ty. sounds like the shadowlands thing was a one time bonus, then.
wanton breach
yeah, they change it all the time
quiet hemlock
What's the best spec for PvP if I have no clue about the specs, and some info about Subtlety from 6 years ago?
If it is maybe a little bit more difficult to learn I might be able to deal with that, I got 1.8k on my dk as unholy at the start of the expac without having any prior knowledge of the spec but it might've just been Unholy being too easy/op
It was before solo shuffle punished leavers if anyone needs a timeframe
potent pivot
What's the best spec for PvP if I have no clue about the specs, and some info ab...
Atm I wouldn’t really focus on a “best spec” and just try them out and see which one you like most
All three specs are slightly underperforming currently but they’re all still viable enough to reach your goals
rotund vapor
Is Sub o Assa rogue better in 10.1 or worse?, and why
copper maple
Guys is outlaw still gonna be good in 12.3? Need to know right now
bold bison
with no changes Assa will probably be moderately better
but both look like they're going to be pretty awful
wanton breach
Guys is outlaw still gonna be good in 12.3? Need to know right now
Magic eightball says yes
copper maple
Magic eightball says yes
Good to know
waxen meteor
Guys is outlaw still gonna be good in 12.3? Need to know right now
be nice to taytay
scarlet shell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLuK_TpD3YA
link transmog so i can steal it
I just want my Nelf rogues to be of the highest caliber
ionic crown
...
pale storm
I’m curious of the mog also, looks fire
pale storm
Nightstalker hasn’t worked all DF, also thief’s bargain pvp talent is not lowering the vanish CD - I feel like thief’s bargain would be insane if it worked, especially playing with CDR + vanish shield
rotund vapor
using a 2 combo point echoing reprimand on Secret tecnique works?
minor cape
using a 2 combo point echoing reprimand on Secret tecnique works?
what is a 2 combo point echoing reprimand
but anyways
blue point works on sec tech yes
rotund vapor
hahaha yeah thats what I meant, thanks 🙂
jolly bear
question, what's the best pvp spec rn? and I was wondering if anyone here could give me coaching for some basic stuff, I wanna get into pvp but I dont really know where to start
limpid shuttle
question, what's the best pvp spec rn? and I was wondering if anyone here could ...
see Pins: all 3 specs are good
jolly sierra
ret paladin, u chose the worst time to join as a rog
rog is mostly strugged RN against rets BM and demo locks, if u go high ranking u will die a lot, even some R1 were having negative CR gaining atm
jolly bear
kk ty
jolly bear
okay that was good info thank you, it helped a lot. but, is there anyone who would help like, actually teach me what to do & why I'm doing it during arenas for example and during fights? or a youtuber that has those kinda videos
lyric onyx
Can watch rogue streamers like Whaazz for EU or Pikaboo for NA
I like Shadenox on youtube he does arenas with a lil box explaining his thought process
Raz is also a good streamer
Just watch and pick up on habits etc
wise breach
Does the new Trophy of Conquest item mean we can have arena ilvl lariats?
Yup, though only items that are upgraded with the new Spark can have the Trophy added
I'm not sure if Lariat will still be the way to go for PvP embellishments
The boots are getting changed to provide primary stat for 10s every 30s when applying a cc
So we probably keep those
wise breach
There is also this new embellishment
#pvp message
Not entirely sure that's good enough, need to try it out
jolly sierra
that embelishment need buffs tho
wanton breach
mastery embellishment will be decent/better for assa/sub most likely
new boots seems nice, thats a lot of primary stat
naive plank
just switched to sin to try it out too
that should be the most bloated spec of them all
jolly sierra
too much buttons?
naive plank
too much buttons?
ye...
and I just realized that the only reason echoing reprimand is a thing, cuz thats the best blizz could've come up with
fierce laurel
Er is really neat. It just feels gross with subs random shadow tech procs
copper maple
It can be annoying on any spec
When you spend a global on a knife throw spell (whatever it's called) to get one point and it crits for 20 damage instead of 10.
And you don't get the blue point
harsh steppe
any tips appreciated, especially on when i should run away & what skills i should be using more often
https://youtu.be/xEgtutSnti8
graceful ravine
how do you live without # timers
harsh steppe
i could put those on if you think it'll help
graceful ravine
its def something you should be tracking
your arena ui dont show their cc's either
you def need a timer on these spells too
harsh steppe
ok i'll put those on too! tyty
what arena ccs? if you're talking about omnicc, i can't get it to work 😦
pale storm
Timer numbers are infinitely useful
graceful ravine
like this, druid is blinded but on your arena tracker it doesnt show any CC
pale storm
Enemy frames
harsh steppe
ahh hmm
graceful ravine
just swap over to the regular gladius imo
seeing timer on enemy buffs/cc is important
harsh steppe
i'll see if gladiusex has that option first if not ill switch to the regular one
are there any points in the 2nd match where you see i should have run away?
damn i don't see a way to add all that stuff to gladiusex lol
i'll try regular gladius
*rip 500 hours customizing gladiusex
not even done with my first match with it & i'm sold, wow
what about omnibar? i see like pikaboo for example doesn't use it? i can't get it to work
naive plank
not even done with my first match with it & i'm sold, wow
what about omnibar? i ...
I have the same issue with omnibar and can't resolve the issue to this day
harsh steppe
yah it's annoying af
but if some pros don't need it i guess we don't have to have it right?
I mean theoretically we can just put all the cds on the side of gladius right? is there anything else you miss from omnibar?
naive plank
yah it's annoying af
but if some pros don't need it i guess we don't have to hav...
I don't think we need it that much.
I find it overwhelming to look at 1395891359139513 on my screen
minor cape
dude what the hell im playing that destro lock and i suck so much ass lol
so used to sub
naive plank
there is a reason pilots use analog devices to this day
graceful ravine
damn i don't see a way to add all that stuff to gladiusex lol
i'll try regular g...
wait what lol i use gladiusex and mine looks fine
i can send u my settings if u want it
harsh steppe
yes please @graceful ravine
harsh steppe
just send me a pic of how you enable the ccs & timers that's all i need
wanton breach
other than a caster you don't really need omnibar since gladiusex can do the CD tracking for most stuff as well
harsh steppe
that's what i was thinking... ok tysm imm stop worrying about it then
minor cape
oh nah
cant export it
btw, any discords like this one but for other classes?
im looking for warlock one
🫡
graceful ravine
just send me a pic of how you enable the ccs & timers that's all i need
sry i have no idea where that option is
harsh steppe
oh wait pika does use omnibar nvm
wanton breach
many people frown upon it but have you considered using gladiatorlossa2 yet? @harsh steppe
graceful ravine
i think timers on gladisex might be a different addon
cos i cant find the option for it
wanton breach
cos i cant find the option for it
graceful ravine
thats the cooldown section, referring to the number cooldown timer
surreal barn
I have the power rangers theme play when a ret uses his wings
Let’s me know to gtfo
minor cape
many people frown upon it but have you considered using gladiatorlossa2 yet? <@4...
ive seen it when pikaboo was reviewing vods
graceful ravine
streamers frown upon it cos its toxic for their viewers
minor cape
it sounds like someone whispering in your ear all the time
graceful ravine
you can adjust the settings to only show the spells you want to hear
minor cape
unless you can somehow make it say only 1-2 abilities per class
its horrible
yeah but then again just weakauras
harsh steppe
yes i love it, just had the volume down low on that last vid
yah i set it to once ever 5 seconds max, & only the spells i want to hear
minor cape
wanton breach
once every 5 seconds is quite a long time in between - especially if you deselected a lot of spells
harsh steppe
i can increase it for sure i think im a little better than when i started w/ it, so i can probably increase it to 3 or 4 seconds
yah i dont see a timer number option at all for gladiusex so i'll move on to gladius
imma keep trying to figure out omnibar if i figure it out i'll report back @naive plank
harsh steppe
weird, it's working now 
potent pivot
btw, any discords like this one but for other classes?
Check out the #welcome channel there’s a link to every class discord
I mean #rules-and-guides
naive plank
i can increase it for sure i think im a little better than when i started w/ it,...
thank you. I tried couple of things(some on my own, some solutions found around the internet), nothing worked for more than a day
potent pivot
Not really, it’s kinda meh
There was a very niche one shot build with it closer to the beginning of the expansion, but not many people ran it even then
worthy crag
it probably still does okay damage
biggest problem is its super telegraphed and you will need to sacrifice either DM or rotten or dark brew which would kill your regular dmg even more
tribal badger
oh so i can stop forgetting to safety reload my ui everytime i enter a soloq to prevent omnibar from stopping me from using a single ability after the gate opens
thats my favorite feature of this expac
pale storm
Hopefully haha I’m going to check it out when I get home
harsh steppe
Oh wow tysm
waxen meteor
actually i played a bm it's fun
but could be just initial fun
there's like only 3 btns to push for damge
tribal badger
rets still good but theres a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooota bad rets sitting +500 rating from their actual level that r going to find out the hard way
harsh steppe
i tried bm for 1 hour when i mained hunter & then went right back to mm
tribal badger
vanguards still going 5/1 6/0 in his lobbies at 3400 mmr
think rets fine
maybe no more rets in my 2500 lobbies that dont press sanct sac or freedom on party members a single time the whole match
might actually need to use that massive toolkit a bit now
well sure theyll still exist but not for long because they wont go 5/1 anymore while playing like that
wonder how is unholy is post buffs
im debating between arms warr or dk gearing up next, still need to unlock the hecking elite polearm mog
because for some reason evokers can use every type of 2h weapon except polearms
jolly sierra
how tf evokers can use 2h swords
tribal badger
idk
they let them use all the 2h weapons except polearms
theres even an int 2handed sword this season
one of the wpvp caster weapons
makes for good mogging
keen dune
just played shuffle and it was not fun
hazy pewter
anyone know how often the shuf leaderboard updates?
alpine tinsel
Yo do any of y'all know a discord similar to this one for pvping as priest? Just started a couple weeks ago and I need streamers to follow or vids to watch to get better
quiet hemlock
but both look like they're going to be pretty awful
How are they currently?
alpine tinsel
ty ty
alpine tinsel
Yo you too man!
Going good, decided to learn healer since I have some IRL friends that are picking up arena for the first time
Hope you're doing well as well!
jolly sierra
im jealous, wish to have irl friends to play with lol
had my brother, but he is not playing atm and used to go just pve
halcyon timber
had my brother, but he is not playing atm and used to go just pve
yeah tried to get my brother to play for like 2 weeks and he just wanted to follow me around tea bag creatures for some reason xD dunno was very weird.
jolly sierra
yeah tried to get my brother to play for like 2 weeks and he just wanted to foll...
maybe he wanted to tell u something lol
halcyon timber
maybe he wanted to tell u something lol
xD no idea dude.
jolly sierra
god i had the longest skirmish for me as ret
was against another ret, a mage and a resto sham
ppl didn't died, after a moment died the other ret
then took like 5m to kill the mage w the sham
the fuckers didn't stopped throwing me from bridge REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
halcyon timber
xD yeah sounds about right.
jolly sierra
maybe can sound irrelevant, but one of my favorite yugioh archetypes got new support today after 4 years, we thought there it was impossible
can that be a sign of hope for another stuff like wow now?
cmon guys i think we can get better in s2
languid ravine
isnt yugioh a shit fest since.. forever
languid ravine
doesnt sound like a sign of hope to me
brb rubbing my black luster soldier if you know what I mean
jolly sierra
cum
jolly sierra
warrior ping pong
wanton breach
ahahahaha, poor guy
I've had that happen to me before, not very fun as the one experiencing it
naive plank
https://youtube.com/shorts/DgrLx5aozKk?feature=share
so after 15 years blizzard decides that sap --> blind is broken
but this is perfectly fine and acceptable?
long shore
Any Assas brothers here getting rekt in shuffle? Is Assas bad in pvp now? Feels like every game with a warrior in it auto lose
jolly sierra
yes it is
long shore
I came back after 1 month break. And yes a little rusty… but wtf man warriors and rets and demo locks are just owning me in shuffle
jolly sierra
yep u chose the worst moment tho
both demo and bm are op af rn
and commonly picked
naive plank
I came back after 1 month break. And yes a little rusty… but wtf man warriors an...
I got back a month ago after a 3 years break
literally a week before 10.0.7, at first I though I'm just bad/rusty at PvP
floral meadow
(Rogue newbie here). Simple question, and i guess complicated answer: when should i use feint in arena?
minor cape
(Rogue newbie here). Simple question, and i guess complicated answer: when shoul...
when you feel like you will receive big damage
🫡
but overall pretty often (if you play feint wall talent of course)
floral meadow
@minor cape whats the feint wall talent?
minor cape
where cheat death is, the other choice
its called elusiveness i think
overall dont play cheat death in 3s or shuffle
only in 2s
minor cape
well maybe that guy played 2s
or maybe he was sure he is not pressing feint this match
potent pivot
didnt knew that, i am with cheat death
If you’re running cheat death then you only press feint for big aoe damage like warrior spear or whirlwind etc
Should play elusiveness most of the time for the ST dmg reduction it adds to feint
floral meadow
thx
wanton breach
how are people not playing triple shaman in 3s, that class is pure aids to deal with
fucking totem forest, try to cast or cc anything is futile
ruby drift
the fuckers didn't stopped throwing me from bridge REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Mage sham on gurubashi is so strong
surreal barn
We decided if we’re running any crafteds going into 10.1? Or still unknown…
ruby drift
how are people not playing triple shaman in 3s, that class is pure aids to deal ...
Cause all 3 shamans can easily die
ruby drift
We decided if we’re running any crafteds going into 10.1? Or still unknown…
Prob engi helm mayb?
For a bit anyways
surreal barn
Looks like will be the same conquest cost to buy a pc as to upgrade a crafted
potent pivot
We decided if we’re running any crafteds going into 10.1? Or still unknown…
Won’t really know until after the season begins, all we can do atm is test the PTR but there’s no guarantee any of the tuning of anything will stay as is
dull bridge
also there was a word of a precog-for-melee embellishment, that's not out yet right?
surreal barn
Maybe our precog for melee will be 5% chance for 1 second stun
And then outlaw becomes super tier
fierce laurel
Isn’t that the snare damage stacking?
ruby drift
also there was a word of a precog-for-melee embellishment, that's not out yet ri...
Prob will be known when ptr comes back from maintenance
dull bridge
Isn’t that the snare damage stacking?
i thought that was the replacement for the cc reduction on boots
wicked rampart
We decided if we’re running any crafteds going into 10.1? Or still unknown…
Almost certainly going to run 2 embellished pieces still, just a question of which I'd imagine
wise breach
We will almost definitely want to run crafted belt and boots with vers mastery since conquest gear doesn't have those stats
And probably a ring too
Keeping boots since primary stat proc is very good
Then put a second embellishment on one of those other pieces or keep using Lariat
ruby drift
We will almost definitely want to run crafted belt and boots with vers mastery s...
We will almost definitely want to reroll and get the embellishments on a class that matters
Fixed for you
jolly sierra
does pvp ilvl conts as embelishment?
jolly sierra
nice, then i think we will be using the ring, the boots and the belt if malicia db gear is not updated
dull bridge
have we ever had a pvp season/expansion where pvp stats were this flexible without obtaining PvE gear? legion had templates, BFA had azerite and SL had SL stuff
jolly sierra
nope
minor cape
flexible pvp stats (full mastery)
harsh steppe
@naive plank yep omnibar worked for a day for me then started fucking up everything again today lol
but the WA that was linked by blake works perfectly
https://wago.io/Vjoj_fuBp
vocal surge
hows PvP this week?
rotund vapor
Hi guys, check this out
This is a pikaboo video, how is he pressing all that stuff so quicky
Is he using a macro?
keen dune
He probs has dance, trinket blades and symbols all in one macro
fierce laurel
Trinket blades, cb sec, symbols is separate.
surreal barn
Any of you raid? There’s some gear theorycrafting I wanted to test in a pvp setting
simple crest
Is Shadowy Duel bugged? Half the time in this bg, it never activated. No cc on me, or immunity on the target, ill spam it and it wont activate.
surreal barn
If you use it on the flag carrier it won’t work
simple crest
ok thats what it is. ty
wanton breach
probably cold blood+st macroed together as well
pale storm
I don’t think he’s clicking too fast there, but does he use both SDance charges there?
fierce laurel
No. The mod has bugs in ability detection especially bad with rupture.
naive plank
<@436230746928054273> yep omnibar worked for a day for me then started fucking u...
Ill try it. THank you. and I told you so 😄
I tried everything to resolve it, and I couldn't
jolly sierra
tbh i dropped omnibar
too troublesome alongside omnicd
i use ability team tracker instead
nova viper
only noobs reroll 
jolly sierra
do u think sepsis will be used in s2 if burst is now nature based?
waxen meteor
played hunter for 5 days, played several solo, 1800 achieved!
potent pivot
do u think sepsis will be used in s2 if burst is now nature based?
assa losing it's current tier set is going to hurt. a lot.
waxen meteor
bm seems to be easy, but i am still not used to skill with a range I need to select later
jolly sierra
assa losing it's current tier set is going to hurt. a lot.
no way, our current tier set is nerfed af
the next one seems very strong tho
specially with the countermeasure against dispells
waxen meteor
when we enter season 2, is it like s1 we will have new conquer gear and have a weekly cap?
tribal badger
doesnt include garrote and the 4set doesnt do anything until deathmark is over
potent pivot
when we enter season 2, is it like s1 we will have new conquer gear and have a w...
yep
waxen meteor
do we know the gap of item level yet?
tribal badger
extended medium damage phase instead of doubling down on a high damage go with deathmark
waxen meteor
s2 conquer gear item level is like 424 + ?
potent pivot
440 something iirc
waxen meteor
ok, so in theory not super big gap
jolly sierra
10% more dmg in bleeds seems weak compared to +40% dmg in rupture as nature
remember rupture dmg source is high too
waxen meteor
40% more rupture as nature sounds good to me
jolly sierra
also, dmg nature dmg from 4set is for 30s after dispells
dull bridge
specially with the countermeasure against dispells
what's the dispel countermeasure
waxen meteor
yeah and 4set will buff it
jolly sierra
so u have a continuous pressure
waxen meteor
and this is probably a signal to use ampli poinson
jolly sierra
what's the dispel countermeasure
if DM is dispelled or fades normally u have 40% nature dmg for 30s
seems like
tribal badger
right thats not really a counter but they did move damage out of ur DM window
which i guess some will see as a positive
instead of having higher peak burst u have lower burst but a longer window
jolly sierra
w countermeasure i say if for example we face a surv or a pally
waxen meteor
well, sin doesn't really have a 'peak burst' anyway
dull bridge
i thought you meant dispel protection for poison dispels lol
jolly sierra
dispelling it directly
waxen meteor
the 'peak burst' isn't very peak anyway i mean
tribal badger
i think the take is that a countermeasure generally means they get punished for doing it
jolly sierra
so the countermeasure is having more nature dmg as compensation
tribal badger
u get the damage amp regardless of if DM gets dispelled or runs out naturally
but u do more damage if DM doesnt get dispelled
so its not so much a counter as moving the power out of the window so DM getting dispelled isnt as punishing
jolly sierra
yeah ofc
but at least does works w forced dispells
that is the thing, before that we only had deathmark cleansed and F our burst
so i think the tier is good af to move from our current one
tribal badger
really depends how much pressure u can put out with nature damage buff prob
i mean the play is still always to dispel DM
tribal badger
ur still reducing sins damage output quite a bit doing that
cause 4set happens regardless of dispel
waxen meteor
rupture is like 20% of dmg profile, right?
garrot is like 25% ish.
We can have 10% bonus on 45% which is 4.5%
or
We can have 40% on 20% which is 8% dmg buff, and also it changes from bleed to nature (I am not really certain if it is actually increasing dmg or not, nor by how much)
potent pivot
it's like, +13% rupture damage during that nature dmg amp
doesn't sound that big to me atm
tribal badger
big envenoms tho
potent pivot
when we have +10% garrote and rupture atm
garrote is way easier to cleave than ruptures
jolly sierra
this is from a current profile
dull bridge
we get %33 more nature damage on rupture? that's pretty good. also juiced up by shiv. sustain will be lower but dm will be a lot of pressure
jolly sierra
u still have both dots in targets anyways
jolly sierra
we get %33 more nature damage on rupture? that's pretty good. also juiced up by...
40%
potent pivot
this is from a current profile
yeah so basically rupture is just going to be equal to garrote next season
jolly sierra
then is nice
waxen meteor
this is from a current profile
this looks more on single target?
jolly sierra
yeah is from dummy
jolly sierra
but u still want to keep both dots
waxen meteor
yeah is from dummy
yeah when it's double bleeding, normally it's 25%+ and 20%+
potent pivot
for a builder DoT and a finisher DoT to do the same damage
dull bridge
are there any other nature damage amplifiers on the tree?
potent pivot
shiv
jolly sierra
for a builder DoT and a finisher DoT to do the same damage
10%+ dmg in bleeds (more talking about garrote) vs 40% directly in our second strongest dot
waxen meteor
Bleed DMG doesn't care about armor right?
jolly sierra
nope
potent pivot
10%+ dmg in bleeds (more talking about garrote) vs 40% directly in our second st...
-10% from your 20% current garrote damage
then +13% to your current 15% rupture damage
waxen meteor
so in theory the reduction for bleed dmg and nature dmg are similar?
tribal badger
changing it to nature just makes it so it can be shiv amped
jolly sierra
lemme check something
potent pivot
tribal badger
maybe mastery double dipping? (doubtful)
potent pivot
maybe mastery double dipping? (doubtful)
nah
jolly sierra
i wanna check if rupture dmg is duplicated in ids and counts for lethal dose
potent pivot
and also honestly, big envn isn't nothing
that i'll agree with
waxen meteor
it sounds like we have been assuming envn be ignorable
potent pivot
not really
tribal badger
big envenom builds i dont remember if they were nerfed or just outscaled but everyone stopped playing them
potent pivot
i'm just not very hyped over this tier set
tribal badger
i wonder how big you'll be able to get envenoms if you focus it with that 4set
jolly sierra
think were outscaled
tribal badger
i feel like i was remembering 70k+ envenoms early in the season
jolly sierra
not cuz u are not very hyped is bad
tribal badger
ya i figured (because it didnt really get nerfed just outscaled)
dull bridge
i saw 95k during dm
waxen meteor
yeah it's not deadly at all
tribal badger
so take gear scaling +40% damage amp during cd
sounds like it could easily be big chunker
waxen meteor
but a couple of 70s in a row is good
jolly sierra
if it benefits from shiv and do 40% more dmg by itself is still good
potent pivot
i'm more excited for sub's tier set, but sub is currently tuned to being dogwater so it might not matter whatsoever
tribal badger
i mean if law tier set doesnt get bugfixed law will be big next season
jolly sierra
no way sub tier can be good w crit nerfs
dull bridge
it's less sustained damage outside of the buff window but more damage during it, seems pretty obv to me
waxen meteor
sub nerf is so sad
waxen meteor
it's not even like there were many sub out there
potent pivot
no way sub tier can be good w crit nerfs
it's still an added 15% to the 150%
but the 2set is obviously the best part
jolly sierra
it's still an added 15% to the 150%
165% for next season vs 175% from current one
potent pivot
yes, or just the flat 150% without the set
potent pivot
it's not ideal
jolly sierra
w that general nerf
jolly sierra
basically periodic or direct dmg boost will overthrow every crit set for this season
tribal badger
ya would be a shame if there was an entire spec thats sustain damage was based on critting 60% of the time or something
that would really be a big L
potent pivot
ya would be a shame if there was an entire spec thats sustain damage was based o...
they said they would compensate for that
tribal badger
they said they would compensate for that
i know but the seasons getting closer and closer 😰
jolly sierra
but lets see
STORMKEEPER HAS A 0.20 PVP MULTIPLIER IN S2
tribal badger
they havent even got outlaws set bonus working correctly yet
so my hopes are very low
potent pivot
i think all rogue's hopes are pretty dumpstered right now
jolly sierra
no yet
potent pivot
both pvp and pve playing rogues
tribal badger
well pve outlaw is one of the top specs on ptr rn (but thats just because of bugged tier)
as soon as they fix tier then yea all 3 rogue specs r looking pretty oof
pve wise
jolly sierra
in this xp devs have buff a lot specs and classes underperforming
waxen meteor
Question about the new tier set, so if rupture turns into nature dmg, does it still benefit from mastery?
jolly sierra
we need to look pathetic for now
tribal badger
ur mastery amps nature and bleed damage
jolly sierra
Question about the new tier set, so if rupture turns into nature dmg, does it st...
yes
potent pivot
Question about the new tier set, so if rupture turns into nature dmg, does it st...
yes
tribal badger
so ye
potent pivot
it's just added damage as nature
waxen meteor
ah ok
jolly sierra
"oh poor guys looks pathetic af healing the enemy by hitting lets buff them a little"
check the chickens, got buffed by a lot in late patch
surreal barn
Outlaw should get some pirate pets
And you yell some kind of pirate phrase as they deploy
dull bridge
we should just get kunkka's ultimate from dota
massive ghost ship crashing into the arena, stuns enemies, gives allies stagger, perfectly thematic
idk if that would even save the spec tbh
potent pivot
outlaw needs an ability where it drinks some Rum and goes on a rampage
jolly sierra
Outlaw should get some pirate pets
u have crackers
/whistle him and will hang in ur shoulder
outlaw need to be combat again, but well done
surreal barn
outlaw needs an ability where it drinks some Rum and goes on a rampage
How tf is this not actually a thing
potent pivot
idk i wish they'd lean more into the pirate theme nowadays
it's still very reminiscent of old school combat
i hate RtB as an ability for the most part, but eh
jolly sierra
fuck rtb
surreal barn
You either need to go full pirate or none at all
After whiskey in the jar we pop sea shanty
And it’s done you’ve killed them all
vocal surge
Honestly I wouldnt mind moving away from the pirate theme
dull bridge
How tf is this not actually a thing
the crimson vial pvp talent now also gives "Gain %50 stagger during the CV effect", done
vocal surge
and more into other forms of what makes Combat Combat
we in the past had Parry and Dodge chance increases
and had abilities related to parrying that helped us kill others
dull bridge
some parry introduced to the spec would be neat, but probably also cancerous
vocal surge
Not to mention abilities like Revealing Strike that acted as our combo point generator
that enhanced the effectiveness of our finishers
alongside Sinister Strike
honestly parry wouldnt be cancerous
and even if it were
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Its class fantasy
also its probably good we take a step back class design wise
since Outlaw rn has a really high combo point generation rate
potent pivot
Honestly I wouldnt mind moving away from the pirate theme
i wouldn't mind that either, i just think since it's already being done it should be more vivid.
potent pivot
i kinda feel like rogue's entire thematics and toolkit is very outdated
all 3 specs feel kinda ambiguous
they're all "upkeep these buffs/debuffs, press strike->evis otherwise"
jolly sierra
dunno what can be done tbh
but they fucked themselves doing a rework for rets, now everybody wants one
potent pivot
there's all kinds of things that could be done tbh
remove slice n dice as an ability altogether
for a very simple starter
vocal surge
Could also make SnD a backseat passive that could be maintained
jolly sierra
u say add it as a passive?
dull bridge
passive %50 faster melee, done
potent pivot
u say add it as a passive?
or just retune auto attacks to account for removing it
either or
vocal surge
^
althou I'd imagine people appreciating Outlaw doing more ability damage on the PvP side of things
since having a high base auto attack damage makes people assume we take less skill to play
surreal barn
Lol 8 second kidney
That was so crazy to play with
I think we even had shadow reflection back then
jolly sierra
how tf can enh have an ability do drop stealth outside totems?
and combat readiness
bruh
no way i can stay in stealth w this
waxen meteor
remove slice n dice as an ability altogether
Totally
I remember a fucking expansion we had to also keep a recovery skill up 100%
vocal surge
actually combat was very good in last wod season
thats fair lol but it isnt as memorable as WoD DKs
jolly sierra
thats fair lol but it isnt as memorable as WoD DKs
i really wished the elite pvp set from last season for dk
still recall how i watched pvp vendor elite set as a dumbass with everything locked
vocal surge
ooof
jolly sierra
tf is this
pale storm
latest PTR
ROGUE
Outlaw
Ambush damage increased by 5% in PvP combat.
Sinister Strike damage increased by 5% in PvP combat.
Killing Spree damage increased by 5% in PvP combat.
Blade Rush damage increased by 5% in PvP combat.
Ghostly Strike damage increased by 5% in PvP combat.
Dreadblades damage increased by 5% in PvP combat.
Mastery: Main Gauche damage increased by 5% in PvP combat.
Dispatch damage increased by 20% in PvP combat (was 15%).
Subtlety
Backstab damage increased by 30% in PvP combat (was 20%).
Gloomblade damage increased by 30% in PvP combat (was 20%).
Shadowstrike damage increased by 8% in PvP combat.
Eviscerate damage increased by 8% in PvP combat.
Secret Technique damage reduced by 25% in PvP combat (was reduced by 30%).
pale storm
no, that is it, assa damage is fine as is imo