pvp

[wintry dew]

That was yesterday and not a huge deal

Literally nothing changed

[maiden quest]

Yeah need a 20% damage overall decrease and 50% less burst

[clever blaze]

more outlaw games than assa games as well, i guess getting nerfed every fortnight will do that

[vocal surge]

Its weird seeing paladins get a slap on the wrist

despite it being glaringly op

[scarlet shell]

bc ret paladins will attempt to gaslight the community by saying that they sucked for the last decade.

[clever blaze]

i distinctly remember ret paladins one shotting people and doing a million damage + a million healing per round in early shadowlands.

[vocal surge]

[wintry dew]

They had 2 good seasons in SL afair

Then caster comps took over

[vocal surge]

we should gaslight the community

into buffing rogues

[wary spire]

Delightfully devilish!

[minor cape]

usually the community is people who have never played rogue

but still thinks its op

[alpine tinsel]

is it better at this point just to go the MW or Rsham in 3s/solo? It seems like none of their teammates die

[harsh steppe]

LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FINALLY

[wintry dew]

Gz

[harsh steppe]

tyty couldn't have done it w/o your guys help! i know it's such small rating lol but it took me so long, so im so happy!

rank1 soonTM

[wintry dew]

I'm happy you're happy

[vocal surge]

gratz

[wintry dew]

Have you been watching pvp videos or do you just queu into queu into queu ?

[harsh steppe]

both, obsessively lol
also sana from here has been coaching me here & there a little by critiquing my videos

[wintry dew]

Tldr what are you biggest mistakes?

[ionic crown]

i've reported to smexxin about nightstalker bug by direct message and he said "seems work for me"

[harsh steppe]

100% tunnel vision, i didn't have focus targets often, so now i'm doing them first thing and at least
managed to occasionally (lol) kick or gouge them, still working on incorporating more focus ccs but those two are all my brain can handle atm
also using shuriken storm over backstab more often has helped a ton
& putting my "in between GOs" skills at the bottom of my screen has helped a lot, because in panic mode / in between bursts i can just look down there & try to use any of those skills on off dps or heals
what's really weird though is i had a dream a few nights ago that I switched to assassin? I woke up & was like wtf
i normally have a lot of WoW dreams since i play so much, but never a dream about switching specs lol

[minor cape]

i was telling you all hyper is going glad next season

😈

[harsh steppe]

ahaha *crosses fingers

i'd be happy w/ 1800 tbh, that's the highest i've ever been on my previous main

the real question though is... now that i switched mains, do i go back & get all my reps again that i had previously?

[wintry dew]

You don't have to

They literally useless

[vocal surge]

^

unless you want cosmetics

no real reason to chase after it

[nova pulsar]

hey does ur pvp ilvl scale with open world content when you have warmode on or do i need a seperate set for open world content?

[vocal surge]

the trinket set bonus is active in WM immediately

not the ilvl increase from armor thou till you enter pvp combat

[nova pulsar]

oh, so for pve combat ill be using the regular ilvl huh

[maiden quest]

So if I understand solo properly, if you win 3 rounds out of 6, you still earn points ? The more rounds you win, the more points ?

Also is solo shuffle a good way to get back into pvp or best stick with classic 2s/3s ?

[wintry dew]

Depends on mmr

If your queuing in your MMR (not higher) you can literally gain 0 points from going 3-3

If you enjoy waiting 20+ minutes waiting for queu to pop, I'd say shuffle, atleast you don't have to deal with getting a party

But experience wise, 2v2/3s would be much better

Because you can literally do more games per hour

[maiden quest]

Well and loosing the mate for every loose :/

They should implement insanely more rewards for healers, like gold and cp

[wary spire]

What an unfortunate acronym.

[maiden quest]

Or remove healers completely

[copper maple]

If there were no healers, people would only play rogue-mage in 2s and get us all nerfed 😄

[maiden quest]

Well I mean in shuffle

[dull bridge]

RM mirrors all day baby

[nova pulsar]

hey, which spec is most ideal for rbg's atm?

[dull bridge]

depends on the map, search for previous discussions in the channel

[pale storm]

You usually sit bases as sub and team fight as assa

[nova pulsar]

ohhh ok, ty

[pale storm]

The specs are a little different than the arena/SS specs though

[maiden quest]

Wandering if a solo queue for normal 2s 3s is possible

[waxen meteor]

Means mage 1on1 all day baby

Worse 1on1 mage will get rogue teammate coming out first

[copper maple]

Exciting gameplay wow

[vocal surge]

I dont think removing healers will make that big of a difference

it'll pretty much be Skirmishes 2.0

[dull bridge]

y'all ever play battlerite? they had an alternative version of dampening where you couldnt recover to max hp

[waxen meteor]

is there a rumor somwhere of really removing healer in 2s?

[copper maple]

This game looked cool but when I discovered it, it was already dead

[dull bridge]

prolly not sth they'd do

[dull bridge]

i played it a bit after i quit wow to scratch the arena itch, was a cool game. shame it died

[copper maple]

Cool games often die so young 😭

[fierce laurel]

Battleright was amazing. I tried playing smite but nothing compares to a vibrant wow season.

[copper maple]

There was a certain fps game I enjoyed called Dirty Bomb. Fun fact, it started dying when they released a new character with stealth and hard hitting sword.

[surreal barn]

You want a really relaxing game try out pressure washer simulator

Oh yeah baby

[dull bridge]

man i played the shit out of db, really scratched the TF2 itch. shame they had to add a fucking stealth ninja assassin to an fps game

[copper maple]

TF2 have done their stealth ninja assassin guy way better.

I have a lot of respect for people who play tf2's Spy well. I have like 5700 hours in tf2 and I can't play this class at all 😅

[maiden quest]

just get lmaobox

[copper maple]

I don't remember a lot about DB at this point, but I remember enjoying playing the guy with shotguns and sticky bombs. Don't remember what I played most before this guy was released.

Get good, get lmaobox.
I remember that 😄

[maiden quest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDDqSWNACBQ

[naive plank]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/insight-of-a-subtlety-rogue/1562206/2 anyone read this?

[wary spire]

I don't remember a single time developer of any game took a "revamp from the forums".

[dull bridge]

i opened it to shit on it but it actually does resonate with me

[wary spire]

They're usually looking for "I like this / I don't like that". I do believe actual spreadsheets actually damage the goal.

[dull bridge]

their proposed tree is pretty fucking bad

relentless strikes, ruthlessness and seal fate in the middle of the tree LOL

I admire the effort but holy shit those talent trees are just awful

what made sub rogue lose identity was the CP generation creep

you can refill a 7 cp bar every other global, it's pretty crazy. finishers can't be that effective when you're shitting one out non stop

[fading blade]

is hero of the * , faction locked? So if i get it on alliance and swap to horde, would it be locked?

[graceful ravine]

How long until people finally realize that rogue is balanced around dmg output, everything else is almost irrelevant.

You can have the coolest set of talents and still be pointless cos the dmg output for the season is scaled low

[lucid citrus]

any new outlaw builds that is useful in SS lol

[slender cliff]

guys for real what is the best spec for pvp right now for rouge?

[graceful ravine]

Retribution

[slender cliff]

lololol

i know

but for rouge

xD

[copper maple]

Arms is good

But for real I don't think there's one objectively best spec

[fading blade]

Ret

[copper maple]

I don't see rets go 6-0 every game anymore

[fading blade]

ya they go 5-1 now

[tribal badger]

ive had 2 games with only 1 ret paladin in them in a row

its a miracle

[copper maple]

Maybe cause most of them found themselves at ratings above their capabilities

[fading blade]

rogue just down bad in general and blizzard continues to look the other way

[potent pivot]

I don’t think there’s an overall best spec atm

[copper maple]

Well there's something promising in 10.1 ptr to be fair

[potent pivot]

Some argue outlaw is, but I think they’re all a little under tuned atm

[slender cliff]

I heard someone say assasin was good in pvp but idk

i just started rouge

[potent pivot]

I wouldn’t worry so much about a “best spec” and just play whatever you enjoy

Then just practice

[wary spire]

The hook saves my butt uncomfortably high amount of time.

[naive plank]

well, I'm no expert in talent trees, but they made some good points that resonate with me. Especially the Shadow Dance part.

[hasty holly]

it’s unrealistic but making grappling hook a rogue tree talent would be unfathomably based

[ruby drift]

Cause out of the 3-4 rets in your ss lobby its impossible for them all to go 6-0

[hasty holly]

they bubble to protect themselves from losses

[jolly sierra]

yesterday i was flamed for a combatant hunter when we went against a bm and a ret w me being rog

the guy didnt protected himself when ret used bop on hunt and bubble on him

then i went w a warr this time and won

[copper maple]

I've had 1 double ret lobby since their buff

and 0 since the nerf

[waxen meteor]

I think most ret has reached their cap

Then it requires effort to push higher which most people won’t do for alt

Tbh I think ret isn’t that fun as rogue but it’s an fairly interesting spec to play

[wintry dew]

I'm playing ret rn for a bit (for a week) and this shit is fun

Might actually reach 2.4

I'm dreaming high buuuuut

[jolly sierra]

keep going

[surreal barn]

This workday is moving slow af. One of you rogues stream some shuffles to get me through it

[jolly sierra]

u are still in time

[sharp sierra]

What build you using?

[wintry dew]

testing this one rn

But reached 2.2 with this one:

this makes me so sleepy i'll play sleeping next pop

[copper maple]

you're not alone

[wintry dew]

Ayoooo i feel you bro

It's sad i do a solo shuffle an hour

[copper maple]

yesterday I went for a piss at roughly the same 36 mins of queue

missed the game...

[jolly sierra]

if u wanna more dmg try using the 4 point finisher talent

u can get 200k dmg in veredict w wings

[wintry dew]

I thought about trying it but i checked big ret boys and no 1 is using that build

OMG

LETS GOOOO

52 minutes!

[jolly sierra]

LETS GOOOOOOOO

[copper maple]

got one too xD

[jolly sierra]

give a shot, reached 2k4 w it

also, try using on use trinkets to sync w 1 min cd

i used the combatant one cuz awarded haste baseline

[wintry dew]

i...

got oneshot

200k death sweep

nice

[jolly sierra]

and ppl said DHs were dead

don't let him breath this time

[wintry dew]

im going either 2/4

or 33

3-3

1 hour queu for 0 rating

goddamn it

i didnt go 4-2 bcs my round with DH he decided to literally get oneshotted by arms/ele in the first 4 secs

[copper maple]

I did 3-3 and gained... 2 rating!

[wintry dew]

same but without the 2 rating part

[copper maple]

apparently "train boomy ez win" strategy works better with 2 melees

worked with ret, not quite with a lock

[jolly sierra]

use badge trinkets, u will 1 shot everything

[obsidian moon]

could assa rogue be the worst DPS in shuffle atm?

[jolly sierra]

yes

[obsidian moon]

down deep baby

just gonna pray to ALLAH that ret gets killed before season ending xD

[jolly sierra]

currently i have my assa hiding at 2k

[wintry dew]

same!

[jolly sierra]

switched to my ret post rework than i sit at 1k8

then got 2k4 in 3 days

hilarious

[obsidian moon]

im down 600cr in shuffle after ret buff HAHAH

[wintry dew]

i've gone higher with my ret than with my rogue ._.

sadlife

[copper maple]

does prevoker remove bleeds in some way?

[obsidian moon]

i cant man this meta is so depressing

[jolly sierra]

XD

[obsidian moon]

for rogue

[wintry dew]

Play ret

[jolly sierra]

same, this is the worst moment of rog overall

dont think they had such bad moments in pvp history

[wintry dew]

Honestly ret gameplay feels good.

[obsidian moon]

rogue is not even bad just gets so fucking fucked by all ret comps

[jolly sierra]

else are BM or demos

[surreal barn]

With Ret your trades really do feel meaningful

We can’t disarm bladestorm? Storm bolt should do jack shit against evasion

[jolly sierra]

no, we cant

[pale storm]

finally a non ret lobby and 5-1

[jolly sierra]

gg

[dull bridge]

best way of pushing rn if you're not a ret is sitting on your rating

[slender cliff]

what size is your screen and resolution?

[wintry dew]

i just won an impossible loby, GODDAMN

[wintry dew]

i actually dont know

1920-1080

[jolly sierra]

gratz

u got it

but is not done yet

[wintry dew]

It was the most tilting shit

spell stealed all game, frozen / slowed all game

[jolly sierra]

i fkn hate mages

specially if they are frost or arcane

[minor cape]

probably fun to play as mage

not fun to play against

[copper maple]

there's no pushing if you're fine with your current rating

if you're not sitting at r1 cutoff, push as much if you want

nothing to lose eh

I get it was a joke though 🙂

[jolly sierra]

im going fine w ret, the farming build is giving me a lot of gold

perfect for wpvp meta

[teal silo]

farming what?

[coral hare]

noobs!

[jolly sierra]

ores and herbs

[dull bridge]

homie still has azerite gear

[jolly sierra]

yes

[unborn portal]

my rogue is sitting at 2.2

I play resto shaman rest of season prolly

lavalavalava

[jolly sierra]

200k stormkeeper use

[unborn portal]

[potent pivot]

I don’t think so no

[spring bough]

warrior in my lobby "full healer dont leave healer" open on healer and within 5 seconds he jumps to mage then jumps to ret and keep shuffling targets /facepalm

[jolly sierra]

ME SMASH

[languid ravine]

Blizz devs?? Okay, but I can't believe that even the Rogue discord itself forgot about Outlaw

[dull bridge]

outlaw lives in our hearts

i just want to spam SS and press KS on red buff

[languid ravine]

I swear Red Buff would be perfect match for Survival Hunter Mongoose spamming

[ruby drift]

Wants to lava but can’t spend the gcd too 😂

[languid ravine]

much better design than forcing a 15 sec setup window

[unborn portal]

Wdym I press riptide??? Healing stream

Lavalvalava

[ruby drift]

lol. dropped a game today cause i dispelled a hoj on our hunter while our warrior was at 65%

[unborn portal]

Shoulda lined it

[ruby drift]

sucks to suck

[unborn portal]

[spring bough]

so had a highlight of my ques tonight and then ended 4-2 cause of a DK lmfao. both these in the same que 😭

dk literally threw the last game.... this is getting out of hand lol

[unborn portal]

He is built different

[jolly sierra]

oh

this shit

doesnt work

!iq

fkn bot

ah nice but when im swearing comes ASAP

WHISPYR ENABLE MOROES IN THE PVP CHAT TOO PLS I KNOW U ARE READING TY VERY MUCH

(just kidding)

[jolly sierra]

classic toxic healer

[spring bough]

toxic healer toxic DK lol

great combo

[jolly sierra]

but the dk biologically-wise is a focus of toxins and disease

so matches too

[spring bough]

we said go ret we started ret then he went mage and every time i swapped he swapped.... lol

[jolly sierra]

wtf

that is the reason i use toptarget addon

but if he just switched constantly then was clueless

[waxen meteor]

How does it look like

[jolly sierra]

it marks like a sniper target around one player's nameplate, that is if is the most focused target between ur partners

[spring bough]

he did it to troll and throw the match like he said lol

[jolly sierra]

ah then report him, so gms ban troll him too lol

[spring bough]

oh its the first thing i did when i got out of the match lol

[potent pivot]

most commands are limited to #off-topic on purpose lol

[jolly sierra]

sad

[potent pivot]

don't really want all the spam in discussion channels

[jolly sierra]

i was very bored reading the off topic chat

[spring bough]

this giant ass red square around targets might actual help out a bit lol

[jolly sierra]

and seemed like a very funny command

[jolly sierra]

for me it helped a lot

cuz ppl inside SS are very very airheaded and do something different to what they said

[potent pivot]

i go to off topic quite often for a couple of them :d

[jolly sierra]

they can say "go enh he is bad lol"

then go straight to the indestructible ret paladin and lose

[jolly sierra]

looks like this ingame

[dull bridge]

this screenshot gave me a brain aneurysm

[jolly sierra]

that happens when u haven't enough money for a wider screen

[surreal barn]

You may not like it but this is what peak performance looks like

[jolly sierra]

maybe the reply was for rydel

[spring bough]

yes thank you for this just hit a 6-0 and its cause i saw that red out of the corner of my eye and swapped at the last second to healer and we got it lol

[jolly sierra]

lol u welcome

[dull bridge]

rets rogues together strong

[lyric onyx]

Is there anywhere that compiles all 10.1 changes into one big list.. I haven’t been keeping up and it’s really long trying to scour wowhead for old datamines

Anything big changing for rogues is all I wanna know basically

[potent pivot]

nope

[vocal surge]

imma need that addon

for research purposes

[copper maple]

I know I don't have perfect set of vers-mastery gear, but 7 cp envenom doing 26k doesn't look good

when I get hit by demo lock's pet ability for 40k

[minor cape]

we will get a talent that makes cloak give evasion and cleanse dots

we will also have a tier set that grants sub free symbols of death on dance

thats it basically

and we also loose blind sap

[copper maple]

they said they're testing that, might not happen, right?

[minor cape]

[copper maple]

if so good thing my game time is running out 🙂

I mean if that happens

[harsh steppe]

gm all ❤️
trying to finalize a few keybinds I think need to be moved around, where do you guys bind Sap, Shuriken Storm, & Gouge? i know it's personal preference but just need some ideas

[copper maple]

I have sap built into macro with stealth and bound on ~. Gouge is 5. I have Fan of Knives on shift+1 now, would put Shuriken Storm in the same bind.

[harsh steppe]

oooo i didn't know you could bind stealth & sap holy crap! i have shift 1 still open, i may put SS there, tysm

[copper maple]

if you mean shadowstrike, I wouldn't recomment

[harsh steppe]

no shuriken storm mb*
is your stealth macro just

#showtooltip
/cast stealth
/cast Sap
?

[copper maple]

#showtooltip Sap
/cancelaura [nocombat] Shadow Dance
/cast !Stealth
/cast Sap

the first line is for random situations when you want to restealth but have dance

also !Stealth so you can spam the bind and not cancel stealth once applied

[harsh steppe]

WOW this is gonna be huge for me, tysm

[lyric onyx]

But that’s literally been a staple of rogue pvp forever what’s blizzard thinking

[harsh steppe]

anybody know how to fix this?

[copper maple]

No better way to reach your rating goal than 6-0'ing the lobby 🙂

[harsh steppe]

nice!

[vocal surge]

Gratz

[clever blaze]

no rets, fake pic?

[jolly sierra]

gratz, in assa, that is hard mode lol

[copper maple]

It'd be harder to jump ship to a spec I haven't touched in DF

[pale storm]

Hit 2093 after 4-2ing as assa, should have been a 5-1 but war was garbage 😦

[spring bough]

Did this ret hot fix go live yet

[faint vessel]

how do you blind into sap when you enter combat on blind? is it blind -> vanish-> sap?

[tribal badger]

u either vanish sap or dance sap yes

[copper maple]

Or shadowmeld if night elf

[tame onyx]

so, what's the counter ret spec? Sub or Sin?

[copper maple]

Not rogue definitely

[tame onyx]

If you are going to face a ret, which spec would be the best?

[faint vessel]

can you shadowmeld during combat?

[faint vessel]

ur in combat, you cant dance sap I think?

[tribal badger]

u can cast sap in combat

u cant be sapped in combat

[faint vessel]

ok

[tame onyx]

so, literally don't play rogue right now?

[waxen meteor]

Mage

[minor cape]

probably sub cause you can survive longer

and try to control him i guess

while you try to kill his teammate

[pale storm]

I feel like at lower ratings the problem with sub now is it’s really hard to kill by yourself, you can do all the CC in the world to off target and healer, but if you can’t kill, it doesn’t matter.

[copper maple]

I've noticed that I'm doing substantially lower damage than many other classes. Like in the screenshot of a 6-0 lobby I was by far the lowest, almost half the damage of arms.

But maybe it's just a skill issue 🙂

[tribal badger]

it is indeed a skill issue

[copper maple]

Damn

[tribal badger]

you picked rogue at class selection

that was the skill issue

a more skilled player would have leveled a ret paladin

many such cases

[copper maple]

So all these years I was playing wow wrong?

[tribal badger]

many such cases.

[copper maple]

Damn...

I do admit I'm probably pressing some buttons... let's say suboptimally

Hard to do perfect pve rotation while being punched in the face or kited around

[wise breach]

AWC in under an hour, what are the chances we see a single rogue?

[copper maple]

50%, either we see one or we don't

[tribal badger]

if you see them they werent a very good rogue anyway

💅

question is how many rets will we see

over or under 50% of the total comps

[scarlet shell]

We are not seeing a single outlaw in awc

Sadge

[tribal badger]

well thats not new

there wasnt any in the first one either iirc and nothing happened to make it stronger other then other rogue specs getting worse

[dull bridge]

whazz' team will pull out rogue lock is my bet

but they're not in the gauntlet

rat played outlaw in a few qualifier games if that counts

[copper maple]

Unrelated, but wow arena feels like the least accessible esport to watch. They've made it better when they started showing cds and stuff though.

Also last time I watched the games were mega dampening and were very long. Probably not anymore, idk

[dull bridge]

rms vs rps first game of the gauntlet pog

[wise breach]

Two rogues

[tribal badger]

👏

[dull bridge]

new class

is awc.gcd.tv broken for anyone else? showing old games for me

[polar shard]

yo anyone know if we will keep honor when s2 drops?

[wise breach]

Historically yes, usually only gets wiped at the start of a new expansion

[polar shard]

so if I get 15k honor Ill be fully honor geared once s2 drops ?

[wise breach]

Unless they change their approach, think so

[tribal badger]

is new honor gear higher ilvl then current conq?

[wise breach]

Unfortunately yes

437 in PvP

Though obviously we're going to want to keep tier set over some ilvl

[polar shard]

time to do the grind of my life then lmao

[copper maple]

I think I kept honour between expansions

[wise breach]

Maybe some, pretty sure it was wiped at the start of DF

This is so sad

5s Blind in under a month btw 🙂

[languid ravine]

I dont think 8 sec blind would have helped there, but I am not an expert

[hasty holly]

mage uses blast wave into an immediate charge

you love to see it

[dull bridge]

rogue btw

[wise breach]

Akro's got some balls getting tagged in

[tribal badger]

lmao

triple melee cleave where one of the melee is a healer

[wise breach]

Ended the way you'd expect

[tribal badger]

i hope they win it all

cause thats this season in a nutshell

[hasty holly]

ret healing equal to 40% of the actual healer

[tribal badger]

ASTRO COMPETING WITH FW ON THE SCOREBOARD

xd CASTERS

who is the superior melee class, rogue or fistweaver

[dull bridge]

jesus that wasn't even close

[tribal badger]

LMAO

kill thru life swap ironbark

through two entire hp bars

[wise breach]

What an incredible display of skill

[ruby drift]

Blizo loving this meta lmfao

Can’t believe teams were actually playing rogue

Comical

[languid ravine]

nice world championship

[hasty holly]

ret paladins

the druid healing 6 million per round and it still wasn’t enough

[languid ravine]

prevoker spending 3x the mana of fistweaver and it still wasn't enough

on an already defensive footing mind you

[ruby drift]

Yeah

The pre voker was a good pic imo

But balance tis not in their favour lol

[hasty holly]

fistweaver getting to be the third dps for free

[ruby drift]

It’s hard for casters to punish the fw

[hasty holly]

what, you don’t like getting the zug zug treatment?

[ruby drift]

Lol

Need to zug zug the fw yourself

Tis the way

[hasty holly]

ret paladin vs ret paladin who will be more disgusting this match

[ruby drift]

Yeah I like huhu trying to counter the fw retwar comp

But don’t think it’s gonna work

[hasty holly]

holy shit can it fucking die

that’s like the third time a paladin has dropped to 5% hp and then heals to full

dying as a paladin

[ruby drift]

Oooohh it does work

[dull bridge]

can only die to other paladins 🙂

[hasty holly]

true!

[ruby drift]

Watch them pick hook point tho

And delete lock lol

[tribal badger]

mw lost it cant be op

the mana

[hasty holly]

man i feel for healers rn

play out of your mind

[tribal badger]

i feel for most healers

i dont feel for FW at all

and a little less for rsham

[hasty holly]

but your dps gets completely fucking gapped

[ruby drift]

Tbh glad fw is back in the meta

They need to be tuned down a bit

But it’s nice to see

[tribal badger]

nerfing ret would nerf them

if they were a viable kill target

[ruby drift]

Yeah exactly

[tribal badger]

they wouldnt be nearly this op

but with sanct they are

untouchable

just rotate teleport out of stun > sanct

for every go

never sit a full stun

🙂

[copper maple]

nerf fistweaver, buff mistweaver imo

[ruby drift]

Rsham enabled by ret too so

[copper maple]

fistweaver is a dumb concept

[ruby drift]

Nah it’s a great concept tbh

[tribal badger]

its a fine concept, its mana efficiency is far too high rn

and its risk far too low

[ruby drift]

Just the damage to healing ratio is off

[copper maple]

"me third melee in melee cleave, me smash (but also heal for no mana cost LOL)"

[tribal badger]

also its dps yea

shouldnt be doing 50% of the dps of an actual melee dps while full healing

the first nerf disc got was damage nerf healing buff

[copper maple]

they shouldn't get away with healing through damage 100% of the time

[tribal badger]

cause a healer doing 20k dps is really never reasonable

[ruby drift]

They did pick hook point

Make me a gm of these orgs

[tribal badger]

im glad to see prevoker can still win games even if its at 10% mana while the FW is at 75% mana

prevoker mana is so guttered rn

[ruby drift]

I will coach them

[tribal badger]

its an ok healer but ur on like a hard 2.5minute timer

[ruby drift]

They still playing prevoker on hook

[tribal badger]

before u go oom

[hasty holly]

Retribution Paladins have been overperforming in terms of their damage output, so we’re making some adjustments here to bring them more in line with our intentions.

[ruby drift]

This gotta be a mistake

[hasty holly]

idk if those adjustments are gonna fix how obviously bloated the class is

or i guess overloaded is the better term

[tribal badger]

you mean the last hotfix thats already live?

def didnt change anything it was mostly pve targeted

[ruby drift]

“Rets utility is out of control right now, so we’re gonna make shield of vengeance last 10s instead of 15”

[tribal badger]

yea shielf of veng joke was pure pve nerf

actual joke in pvp

[hasty holly]

sanc needs to be gutted

[tribal badger]

and then nerfed the pve talent u no longer run in pvp cause its already guttered

1m, 30% usable in stun wall

[ruby drift]

How tf does ret struggle in late damp lol

[tribal badger]

[ruby drift]

Makes no sense

[tribal badger]

well

[hasty holly]

dispellable stun aka only counterplay

[copper maple]

can't heal as much I guess

[ruby drift]

Neither can they lol

[tribal badger]

a fair amount of their untouchability is ally healing, LoH (because its reasonable that works in arena now) and shield of veng

and that all gets impacted by damp

but they arent nearly the worst spec to suffer from dampening

[ruby drift]

All enemy stuff effected

[tribal badger]

listen the casters need to both sides ret somehow

[ruby drift]

And they can’t deal with ret burst with 10% dampening

[tribal badger]

they cant just say "no weaknesses"

[hasty holly]

they should say “no weaknesses”

[ruby drift]

How tf would they deal with ret burst in 40% damp

Fr

Weaknesses = freedom can be purged, hoj can be dispelled

[copper maple]

they say ret is affected by damp, but no ret games would reach deep damp

[ruby drift]

That’s it lol

[copper maple]

so nobody will prove them wrong

it's genius

[ruby drift]

Fr fr

This lock is so dead on hook

[hasty holly]

50% mana already :))))))))

[tribal badger]

ya i mean

prevoker never really got its healing smashed

it fell under fw/rsham because of buffs and all the mana nerfs

worst mana in the game now

it still heals for a shit ton and has gobs of utility while it has mana

[hasty holly]

what if you: wanted to kill a ret paladin
but ret paladin said: 50% max hp shielding

20% mana

10% mana

[tribal badger]

i told you, 2:30 timer when u have a prevoker healer

[languid ravine]

this is gonna sound outrageous, but maybe dumping 50% of your specs power into tyrant is a garbage bipolar-inducing shit class design, especially when it either oneshots stuff or just gets ministunned to nothingness

[tribal badger]

before ur outa gas

but before then ur a healer comparable to FW or rsham even

[hasty holly]

ret only loses against a mirror matchup

you loveeeeee to see it

[ruby drift]

Or just bugs out

And stands there

[languid ravine]

[ruby drift]

I always rofl when I see that happen

[languid ravine]

still better than DfA'ing yourself off a cliff

or maybe not actually

[ruby drift]

Lock lived for a long time

Too bad swap still had every cd lol

[hasty holly]

why even give fistweavers a resource if it’s literally impossible to go oom

[languid ravine]

cyloxia you got it all wrong, blizz would have to move that mana slider up 10%

[hasty holly]

class was bing chilling for the entire game

[tribal badger]

because FWs true resource is melee range

[hasty holly]

true!

[tribal badger]

either u hit stuff and keep up ur font/faeline and nothing dies, or u cant and people die

its mana agnostic

blizzard just experimenting with mana agnostic healing specs

frfr

[hasty holly]

love the argument that ret was shit 20 years ago so we should stop complaining now

[tribal badger]

this is just

whenever hybrids get buffed

it becomes painful

because they always make them do too much of everything

[hasty holly]

like these matches are downright boring to watch

[tribal badger]

which is less fun then when pures are overtuned

[hasty holly]

it’s a zug fest

[tribal badger]

because overbuffed hybrids keep everyone else alive and stop goes while doing too much damage

[wary spire]

Don't worry guys! That 5 seconds of evasion on cos talent will save the day!

[tribal badger]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[hasty holly]

rets can 1v2 all game but rogues aren’t allowed to deal damage in pvp anymore

[tribal badger]

ok so every execution sentence is 25% of the prevokers mana pool

thats their timer

👏

[languid ravine]

thats unironally hype though imo

[tribal badger]

gotta end the game in ~6 or less execution sentences

they are actually cross ccing the FW pretty well this game

he isnt getting uptime and his mana bar is moving

[hasty holly]

buff our wound poison to 20% per stack

[tribal badger]

evokers is still half the size but

[dull bridge]

fw is a joke man

[hasty holly]

pressure fw and it means nothing

[wary spire]

I wish it lasted 24 seconds on a 1 minute cooldown.

[hasty holly]

because your healer has to manage mana and they don’t

[ruby drift]

Huhu wins that round if prevokers mana wasn’t shit

[tribal badger]

honestly they got a FWs mana pool to dip under 50%

[ruby drift]

That comp is prob the best response to fw ret war and it still gets smashed

Cause they themselves can’t win in under 3m

[dull bridge]

the difference between healers that passively regenerate mana and those who don't is stark. shaman and fw just get their mana back from waters shield mana spring whatever. if you wan't to recover mana as evoker you need to channel fucking disintegrate and nto heal for 2 seconds

huhu wins that if they have an rsham imo

[ruby drift]

Nah

Cause rsham gets trained

After he trinkets anything

Ret war fw is biggest rsham nightmare

[dull bridge]

i've seen the matchup play out a bunch on cdew's stream, looked like he could deal with it

[ruby drift]

Eu actually played rmp tho. Hysterical

[dull bridge]

in that map especially

[ruby drift]

Wonder if power of men plays rmp still

[ruby drift]

Waylor throwing by not playing rsham

[dull bridge]

idk what fley is doing differently but holy shit he used half of waylor's mana usage

[ruby drift]

Legit picks the worst healer for no reason

So weird to opt for disc with demo ret vs mage rogue

[dull bridge]

looks like waylor got hard outclassed all 3 games

[ruby drift]

Dopamine and palumor fucked that last game for him

I’d perma ban palumor from playing hunt lol

Picking rdruid into arcane was terrible yet again

[hasty holly]

they could clear healing tide easily too with the ret

[ruby drift]

Legit if I owned these orgs that were playing rmp, I’d think about firing or micro managing these fucks

[minor cape]

so did awc start

or smth

really need thay ret nerf i want to play the game

[languid ravine]

awc resumes in the background
-> open tab
-> 2ret, 2fw, 1 war and 1 feral all stacked up in a melee brawl

[opaque wigeon]

how hard is it to get the mount for doing arenas over 1k score? I've never pvped before

[wicked rampart]

Lmfao these deathball matches

[minor cape]

pretty easy

not sure how many matches exactly

but i played like 500 shuffle rounds this season

and got mount + saddle

and some more

[minor cape]

i have a great solution by the way

reduce all ret damage by 2%
buff hunter
remove vanish from rogue

that will fix it

[brazen charm]

wait till next patch when setup comps get absolutely obliterated, gonna be even worse :)

[minor cape]

we will be okay honestly, its just the tuning is very off

[candid tide]

this dude left at my 5 win in shuffle

and i didnt get cq

blizzard need to fix this asap

thats crazy u wait 20-40 min qs for nothing

[ruby drift]

Gonna be a hard caster meta in 10.1

Trust

[spring bough]

well just did a solo with the thistle tea outlaw ST build lol

won first round will see about the next few

[ruby drift]

You courageous soul

The question is does ret remain unscathed post 10.1… is it possible

[spring bough]

went 3-3.... fistweaver went 0-6 but seems like even without wound talent and acro strikes this could be decent next season with the new tier

70k dispatch is cool to see lol

[plucky sage]

Oo 70k? Nice!

[waxen meteor]

Oh RMP won ret/bm/Druid

[quasi haven]

yo can someone explain why being near a warrior takes me out of stealth

I remember in shadowlands monks had I think serenity or ewf that took you out of stealth from an insane distance

stealth seems to be forever bugged

[waxen meteor]

All these 7 mins ret/lock/shammy games at AWC

Wins by oom only

Blizzard got the job done

Now it’s no sudden death of course

Most boring games ever

[potent pivot]

are they in combat/actively attacking someone?

they could be cleaving you out of stealth or somethin

[dull bridge]

plate embellishment thing can proc and get you out of stealth if you have a dot on them

it's very stupid that that's a thing but happens all the time

[low moon]

is there a way to transfer honor to alts?

[wise breach]

Massive tuning on Tuesday https://www.wowhead.com/news/upcoming-class-tuning-unholy-dk-preservation-evoker-balance-druid-and-guardian-332381

No rogue changes

But a lot of other important stuff

[waxen meteor]

No but you can throw conquer gear directly to ult

[wise breach]

There's the BoA 150 honor token you can get sometimes in boxes

And conquest boxes of course

[waxen meteor]

You don’t really need honor gear that muc

[vocal surge]

They nerfed Fistweavers

buffed Disc Priests, Unholy DKs

nerfed Resto Shammies

pog

huge nerfs to Ret survivability, burst, and support

[wise breach]

Still feel like meta's going to remain hostile to rogues

But this is the first set of actually significant changes to rets

[waxen meteor]

WW as well right?

[vocal surge]

nothing on windwalkers*

Lol

Watched a Demo Lock straight up murder the rogue

in a couple seconds

in the AWC

literal 100 to 0

in a couple seconds

[ruby drift]

those changes wont shake up the current meta imo

buffing prevoker healing but not helping its mana

if anything you slot in a udk with ret lol

[pale storm]

UHDK with that pet that knocks you out of stealth smh

[graceful ravine]

are these fixes for tuesday or hotfix?

[wise breach]

Tuesday

[vocal surge]

Ngl

Nahj's team is way more interesting to watch

than the ret paladin teams

[jolly sierra]

just watched the clips from AWC

gelubaba and the rogs were fkn punching bags for zugzug classes

do u think they will buff our survivality?

[vocal surge]

Damage and Survivability

At some point if we do get buffed survivability

there'll be a point where we cant be buffed survivability wise

[jolly sierra]

i wanna think those nerfs announced today are not cuz AWC

its absurd how rogs become stomped so easily

[grand haven]

[analog crater]

are rogues just not doing so hot right now? decided to get back into my rogue after a break, and i just feel like im not doing shit for damage in comparison to other classes.

[keen dune]

We are in the worst timeline rn

[analog crater]

Just feel like i am hitting like a wet noodle everytime i go to get into combat, and anytime i get hit, i am getting hit by a truck

currently outlaw spec, but tried all 3 and they just feel awful.

[keen dune]

Yeah we are in a bad spot. Idk what blizz has planned with us. Imo outlaw has always been pretty meh, sub and sin kept getting nerfed and right now Ret counters us really hard and everyone is playing it

[nova viper]

What is sin rouge

u mean with sinister strike? ._.

[worthy crag]

is cutoff for rss on checkpvp supposed to be accurate

[minor cape]

i think you have to be a registered user to show up on checkpvp

not sure

[vocal surge]

you know if they had separate talent trees for PvP

it'd be cool if Outlaw had two choices

A hit and runner that focuses more on Pistol Shot or a duelist that is more focused on fighting toe to toe

Genuinely would be cool if we could have our Mastery weaved into our kit than a random proc chance or a talent we have to go way out of our way to pick

that has no use in PvE

outside of soloing content

[keen dune]

Assas(sin)ation sorry people have called it so many things. Assassa, Muti, it has many names lol

[vocal surge]

and punishing players in PvP

[minor cape]

we actually might get better

after tuesday

cause ret and demo got nerfed

lets see if those ret nerf are enough, cause they kinda seem like a joke still

[vocal surge]

Who remembers Agonizing Poison

[copper maple]

I prefer calling it "ass" 😀

[naive plank]

this may be confusing, cuz it may refer to every rogue spec currently

[copper maple]

Unfortunately

[obsidian moon]

maybe we back after reset

[ionic crown]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLuK_TpD3YA

this shit game make me tired.
i've reported to smexxin

[wary spire]

I mean who doesn't love cocks?

[vocal surge]

dont forget to photoshop in outlaw in the background being the kid in a wheelchair balance wise

[harsh steppe]

if i have to unfortunately skip one of these dps skills from my burst rot, which do i skip?

[arctic prawn]

Lol as an outlaw main it sounds x2 funnier

[harsh steppe]

i'm thinking either evisc or shadowstrike?

[minor cape]

i laughed so hard at the demo thing

[minor cape]

this i mean

[minor cape]

you dont skip er and sectech

if you go dark brew you get more value from evis than sstrike

[minor cape]

obv

in rotten build with weaponmaster you do shadowtrikes

sometimes

even on full cp after sectech

but your priority is to get your er sectech off anyway

[tight veldt]

is the pinned sub build still go to?

[minor cape]

pretty much

if youre not sure check murlok io for builds of best players

[tight veldt]

i rbg primarily so just comparing

most RBG builds arent running ER so im wondering for what purpose

[minor cape]

rbg builds go rotten

and 7 cp

i think

for cdr on vanish

you can however still go ER instead of deeper strat

[tight veldt]

ahhhh true

[minor cape]

same thing

[tight veldt]

i mean yeah like the RBG build IS Rotten for 7 cp + vanish cdr

BUT feel like 15 seconds aint worth losing ER+Sect

[minor cape]

you can do rotten in arena too, at least i do it

no no

you still go sec tech

[tight veldt]

No i know that

[minor cape]

you just do a 7 point sec texh

[tight veldt]

i meant losing the ER part

tho i guess it doesnt matter since you still get the 7 pt sect

[minor cape]

you can eviscerate on blue points with brew

in rotten eviscerate doesnt do much

🫡

[tight veldt]

i personally like brew build better, but EVERYONE runs Rotten for RBG

[minor cape]

yeah, its the way

cdr is good in rbg

[tight veldt]

is current burst still ShD --> Kidney --> ShS --> Evis --> ShS to 7 --> SecT ?

[minor cape]

i do shd kidney shs sect

and the shadowstrike evis

to do my sec tech faster and not get stunned

[faint vessel]

I what is shd? Shadow blades? Shs is shadowstrike?

[harsh steppe]

ofc, but if i need to skip evisc or shadowstrike which would i skip?

[pale storm]

You run CDR in rbgs because as sub you usually sit bases/ninja so having vanishes/blind etc reset is really strong.
For the cdr + rotten rbg build I usually -
Gouge > SDance > kidney > symbols > SStrike > cold blood > sectech

[pale storm]

Why do you want to skip an ability in your rotation?

[harsh steppe]

i don't, but very often i have to or i won't be able to cast er/sectec

[minor cape]

if you run rotten skip eviscerate

if you run brew skip shadowstrike

[harsh steppe]

ok tysm ❤️

[jolly sierra]

maybe everything is happening RN in pvp is just a plan from blizzard to make ppl miss us and then buffing rogs, right? RIGHT?

[naive plank]

https://tenor.com/view/pudgypenguin-hopium-penguin-gif-26360923

[surreal barn]

I gotta admit it’s still been fun to try out new builds on my alt rogue. Think of it as playing on hard mode 😂

[naive plank]

I got back a month ago after 3 years break, and I don't know if I want to even continue my sub

[surreal barn]

Do you like battlegrounds? You can still whip ass and make clutch plays as a rogue there

Take advantage of it before blind nerf

[pale storm]

Nothing worse than Qing into evoker healer, ret and 4/5 being dwarf/dark iron dwarf in SS as Assa rogue - so many counters

[candid tide]

think assa still do decent cleave dmg

not on ret tho toomuch shields

[quasi haven]

yea im hardstuck 2k in ss but my constant dmg is ok

I don't like that deathmark is so easily removable

but it is what it is

I tried the execute build, but you never get people low enough to get the advantage I feel 😆 and if they get low theyre most likely already dead

weird meta

[wise breach]

Did not expect Whaazz to actually play rogue

[worthy crag]

The cc reduction planned for 10.1 is still a thing right

[wise breach]

Unfortunately

[surreal barn]

Cheap shot still good though which is nice

And you can cheap into blind so you can sap so honestly I think it’s fine

[scarlet shell]

whaazz has balls

i admire it

he is the only character taking the beatings

nice echo is still in it

[graceful ravine]

could also be a bug on the UI side

i wanted to see chanimal charge in and get a double kill

would be so sick

[chrome schooner]

You never wanna press DM against Preservation though

[graceful ravine]

he almost did

[scarlet shell]

fistweaver and arms up next XD

i am gonna wanna watch this

[wanton falcon]

whaazz flying in and ending that after chanimal solo applied so much pressure was an amazing 1-2 punch

that was fun to watch

[scarlet shell]

i am sure chanimal is gonna get grinded

[wise breach]

Yeah, Mehh's only got priest and evoker

[scarlet shell]

and swapxy lives...

they just need to pressure the ret.

[wise breach]

Woo

Get fucked

[scarlet shell]

whaazz is so fucking lucky

WP

GJ kill the ret

3rd times the charm!

[graceful ravine]

mehh with the insane plays

saved whazz twice with that rescue

at 1%

[scarlet shell]

yeah the ret was the weakest link

swapxy

mehh is really keeping the assa alive

impressive

[wanton falcon]

whaazz is paying for the drinks tonight if they make it out of this

[dull bridge]

y'all are sleeping on evoker

it's S- tier still with the - being due to mana

[wise breach]

Fuck yeah

[scarlet shell]

i mean yeah

[dull bridge]

agent whaaz what are you doing

[scarlet shell]

devoker sucks

prevoker is very slept on

[dull bridge]

you need to get us buffed not nerfed

[graceful ravine]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOO

what a fking swap

[wanton falcon]

THAT SWAP

[scarlet shell]

ok so admiral esports has lost now

well gg

i just saw that lmao

[graceful ravine]

need to see the replay on that one

[surreal barn]

Kiss goodbye to them buffs

We just need to git guud

[scarlet shell]

whaazz playing 4d chess with the enemy healer lmao

well done

that smoke bomb was deadly

[graceful ravine]

what is jotp

[dull bridge]

just be whaazz 4head

[scarlet shell]

damn bro whos gonna guess that blizzard will nerf assa for no reason

[dull bridge]

Next wasn't even playing the second charge of wall or %6 stamina, i think that was a grief

[surreal barn]

How’s assa without the 4pc anyone tried 10.1?

He’s running 70vers 33 mastery gems. I have yet to even try that thus far

[candid tide]

is it gud to gem all in mastery ?

[wise breach]

I wouldn't gem pure mastery since you lose stats over the hybrid gems, but high vers low mastery or high mastery low vers is just preference

[dull bridge]

fistweaver is an abomination

200k wake of ashes, what a button

tell me more about how sec tech is bad for the game

[jolly sierra]

sometimes i do 200k final veredicts

balanced af

[dull bridge]

nah you just need to be the best player in the world, easy!

[jolly sierra]

u need to be pikaboo

and is EZ

hope rogues teams doesn't win AWC

so we can get buffs

hope they die faster against rets

[dull bridge]

that's literally the definition of excellence

[ruby drift]

Yeah but it’s a big rip come 10.1

Ret aoe blind same duration and rogue blind lol

[wise breach]

I mean that argument only really holds water for sub

[dull bridge]

there's a limit. that's how rogue has always been anyways. there's a problem if only 3 people in the world can make the spec work

[ruby drift]

Oh yes. All that so you can have 3s worth of two cheap shots on your kill target 😂

[dull bridge]

assassination

[hasty holly]

rogue damage just feels garbage when rets can pull 300k damage out of their asses

psyop

[dull bridge]

these games are pretty sick ngl

[worthy crag]

is RSS cap still increasing? i thought it was capped at like 3.3 last month

[river crown]

hello

anyone on pvp today?

[jolly sierra]

no, we are playing club penguin

[copper maple]

Opening awc stream and seeing pikaboo and wizk on warrior and ret feels weird

What 10.0.7 does to people

[jolly sierra]

adapt to avoid dying

[minor cape]

Damn man you hit your head really hard. Ret paladin rework? Removal of blind sap? Secret techinque nerf? What is secret technique? Come on, dragonflight just dropped, let's go test that echoing reprimand oneshot build.

[dull bridge]

echoing reprimand? where's my deadly throw

[jolly sierra]

echoing reprimand? i was about to test burst of speed after prepatch dropping

[surreal barn]

Don’t mess with me… we getting BoS back?

[potent pivot]

nop

[jolly sierra]

nope lol

[fading blade]

ok is sub rogue dmg like a noodle

or is ER secret tech outdated

[jolly sierra]

1. sub is nerfed
2. both ER and sectech are nerfed too

[stoic spruce]

ER doesn't deserve to be good

[vocal surge]

Me: Minds my own business
Afflock: Attacks me with 2 spells.
Me: "So you have chosen death..." Proceeds to absolutely 1 sided beat him down not dipping under 80% hp

[jolly sierra]

agree, buff SBS more

a surv assaulted me in outdoor w my ret when i was picking herbs

beaten him so he ran away w carapace and then died by falling

i returned there and the guy was waiting me on air, attacked him again, started to run and i killed him w a veredict

was a worgen, fkn worgens

[vocal surge]

[dull bridge]

rets 🤝 rogues
terrorizing open world pvp since 2004

[languid ravine]

Forcing Rets to Bubble->Garrisonhearthstone was my favourite way of spending time in WoD

those were the days

and also literally twoshotting everything in Legion (except tanks who have 10x more eHP than everyone for some reason)

[copper maple]

Legion was weird. They made PvP templates and disabled everything in instance PvP, but decided to ignore world PvP. I could oneshot people on flying mounts as sub with crit legendary (and also take no fall damage lol).

[minor cape]

so im not the only one who hates er and its stupid ass minigamr

[copper maple]

It's a bit less annoying on assa than on sub imo

That sub passive combo generation from auto attacks can be quite troll with ER

[minor cape]

yeah fo sure

imagine trying to get that blue cp with a single backstab and you get double backstab from weaponmaster and one more cp from shadow tech

[stoic spruce]

I'd rather literally anything else than ER. I can't say enough negative things about it.

I'd rather have flag for bone spike

[stoic spruce]

"BuT mUH mINi gaME is So fUN 🤓"

Stupid ass design for players stupid enough to call it good design.

[copper maple]

It wouldn't be that stupid if we didn't have a random chance to miss the anima charged combo point on every spec

Also bone spike, more like boring spike

[stoic spruce]

I'd rather something boring than ER

[harsh steppe]

morning BBs

[harsh steppe]

did they fix the sectec issue? seems to be working now

[copper maple]

Sec tec's issue is it's existence

[harsh steppe]

weird, it's working for me

[copper maple]

I'm just saying that I don't like that the whole sub spec is built around it

Feels like another gimmick like early shadowlands symbols+ER or the rotten one shot.

But assa also seems to be a bit of a gimmick ob higher level as well

Watched a bit of awc yesterday, where whazz was saving up all cds for a bomb all-in with deathmark and exsanguinate

[harsh steppe]

ahh

[vocal surge]

Man

I remember when Outlaw rogues said that SBS was a fun ability in M+

but it was an ability that felt like it stuffed itself into your rotation with no cohesion

[vocal surge]

ngl

This looks very interesting

[scarlet shell]

Sec tec either one shots my enemy or breaks, never inbeteeen

When it completely finished the guy it’s just so delicious but when it just refuses to work properly then it does my head in

[vocal surge]

Ouch

was looking through the forums

and noted how the sub rogues wanted a rework

the tree they made looks interesting

[copper maple]

[ocean wyvern]

is there a new pvp talent on ptr?

or what am i hearing?

[surreal barn]

Ya we get bubble from cloak to be like pallys and shuriken storm now acts like bladestorm

Just kidding about that last part

[atomic loom]

Its not really a bubble though

[surreal barn]

Was gonna ask… If say a warrior uses stormbolt after new cloak does he still get to smack us

[chrome schooner]

I'd say yes, although I haven't tested. If it is like Evasion then non dodgeable attacks like Storm Bolt aren't avoidable

[pale storm]

I think it just removes physical, so guessing removes bleeds etc but I don't know if it immunes you for the duration

[minor cape]

if its smth they can put through evasion then nah

[minor cape]

we do sometimes

[halcyon timber]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/copium-of-a-sub-rogue-pvp/1562331 This one? Yes to get the gimmicks out of Subtlety and have base abilities do damage instead of cd stacking and such. We were combining all of the things that made us a thief instead of a shadowpriest with a knife 🔪. Thank you for reading it , we appreciate that.

[jolly sierra]

try to suggest making sub similar to its wod incarnation

class fantasy fucked everything

[surreal barn]

I really liked mop sub

Man it was so fun

[jolly sierra]

i miss death from above being viable

[vocal surge]

I dont think its ultimately class fantasy

but the class design being around artifact weapons and their themes being broken outside of bandaid fixes via azerite powers, legendaries

which ultimately impedes how much a class can be reworked

[vocal surge]

You're welcome. One thing I've noticed when the talent trees were being revealed was that Sub Rogues were having way too many multipliers and had a suspecting feeling that they were going to be broken in PvP due to said multipliers stacking way too much

Even Cloaked in Shadows + Soothing Darkness I felt was going to be big in pvp

and seeing Sub Rogues now and in S2 PTR wanted me to have them be reworked

same with Outlaw Rogues since we heavily rely on Fan the Hammer

Not to mention the Class Fantasy for Outlaw feels less fun the longer I play in Dragonflight

simply because rn we're budget Sub Rogues and in S2 the set bonus at best feels mediocre in PvP play

[jolly sierra]

class fantasy restricted a lot of stuff for use

[vocal surge]

^

[jolly sierra]

like removing gouge and leaving it just for outlaws

or being unable to shadowstep as the same

[vocal surge]

There's also really mediocre talents as well for all 3 rogue specs

[jolly sierra]

yeah like control is king and now manuv

[vocal surge]

Not to mention Maneuverability is being nerfed in PTR

without the devs understanding why it has a really high pick rate

over other pvp talents

[jolly sierra]

i think they rlly live in a bubble

now they will see it dropping by a lot for next patch

[vocal surge]

My issue with their statistics is that it doesn't account for actual gameplay

You can use a spreadsheet as much as you want to design a game

but at the end of the day

the design of a unit will ultimate decide how OP it is

[jolly sierra]

yeah agree

[vocal surge]

It's better to use a mix of both spreadsheets and actual gameplay

to see where the problem lie

[jolly sierra]

now with everything against us tbh idk if we will be viable for next patch if they are playing deaf

[vocal surge]

and not "Aktually, our statistic says class fine."

Like without Maneuverability

Outlaw is essentially worse Fury Warrior

[jolly sierra]

manuv was our counter for frost mages

or hunts

[vocal surge]

Yep

Frost Mage's class design alone

[jolly sierra]

now we will be shot for death in the second root

[vocal surge]

hard counters melee

that doesn't have the ability to close the gap