nvm
#pvp
jolly sierra
nono
i can log to my monk
lemme check
but 100% sure doesn't matter if u hit him w cloak if u are bursting
if u do 200k on him then the karma is over
tribal badger
ya u cant get the dot applied if u cloak but u'll still have karma debuff
and if karma debuff is still up when cloak ends (u cloaked early) you'll get a bit of dot
but it doesnt rlly matter
jolly sierra
is a little
chrome schooner
what I mean is
the "red" debuff that stacks the nate dmg lasts 10 I think
so if you cloak the blue debuff
and the red persists
once cloak os fone
tribal badger
yes it lasts 10s
tribal badger
if the red one is still up
you'll get a new blue dot
based on all damage u deal into the shield after cloak ends yes
u immune all the damage during cloak
jolly sierra
is still a defensive which doesn't stand by itself xdd
i still remember how i was killed by double dps in shadowlands just by use it
tribal badger
its just rets or immunes that can hardfuk u
because if the physical debuff gets removed from the target
u lose the whole absorb
jolly sierra
sounds like deathmark issue
plucky sage
Rogue discord 🫦
jolly sierra
the thing is
if it absorbs 200k during ur 5s cloak doesn't matter for later
cuz the karma will be over
when i played monk this season as ww
usually used it when the healer was cced
against rogues was when they used deathmark
so they couldn't stop themselves of hitting me XD
wise breach
Has anyone tried the new 4pc on PTR? Curious if you get the buff if Deathmark is removed rather than expires
jolly sierra
Has anyone tried the new 4pc on PTR? Curious if you get the buff if Deathmark is...
just tested it yesterday w vermillius
bop triggers it
can u enter PTR for a moment pls?
wise breach
bop triggers it
Awesome!
jolly sierra
if that stays as intended for live then we have some hopes for the spec
wise breach
waxen meteor
you are in NA?
jolly sierra
i thought it was picked
a lot of ppl was commenting it recently
being op and some shit like that
waxen meteor
oh really?
waxen meteor
i thought pally just went for the magic immune + trinket on teammate and 6% crit
vocal surge
It changes
dull bridge
this is the single most op thing about ret right now
tells you how ridiculous this pvp talent is (was) considering the rest of the spec
you could dispel hoj, freezing trap, fear, coil from your teammates to the point where hunters started taking diamond ice against ret
waxen meteor
fuck i didn't know even trap can be dispelled
then it's a lot better than the manual tricket
wise breach
Lol how did you not run that, it's OP af
waxen meteor
ret is op af without it
dull bridge
between sanc and this shit you couldn't land cc
waxen meteor
pre nerf you just chop chop chop, everyone died
yeah good point, i will use this for this weekend
trying to do some queues this week agian
it's just ultra long queu
they badly need a feature to allow us playing other character while waiting in the queue
tribal badger
its locked in vs most casters
cause u can just make ur healer immune to their cc
by training them
also turns off ele shaman damage
very gud pvp talent
scarlet shell
ret paladins when you get them to low health and suddenly they whack you hard to next server reset.
jolly sierra
have u crafted ur versa mastery boots for s2?
vocal surge
Lol, there was a comment in the forums
that was actually pog talking about Ret Paladins
You can’t really kill ret paladin teams in the same way, they aren’t losing in cross CC windows and they have lots of way to delay or disrupt goes while their opponents even want to cross CC them. Also just getting a trap removed isn’t the only problem with JoTP.
Rets right now counter comps that want to 100-0 burst you, they counter high CC comps, they counter debuff based specs (shadowpriests, destro locks, uhdks, etc.), they counter comps that want to pad damage, they also shut down comps that rely on keeping up damage the entire game and generating momentum with CCs
There is just no weakness to rets in any way shape or form and JoTP is where they should get looked at first before anything else.
Ret paladins basically got almost every strength of having a prot paladin in shadowlands without having Blessing of the Ancient Queen
Are we all forgetting the reason prot paladins got a healer tag in the first place in shadowlands?
Rets were weaker in 10.0.5 which is fair, but I’m also sick of this notion that ret has sucked for years when we look at Shadowlands Season 4 even we can see that:
A ret was the highest rated player on the NA ladder
The first shuffle tournament was won by a ret paladin
The runner ups in the overall AWC and the NA AWC champions Kawhi frequently played Ret Rogue in tournaments
Ret warrior had strong ladder representation and was a top tier composition
Idk it’s just wild. This mechanic is beyond game-ruining right now. You literally cannot play 3s without a ret paladin, and they’re even more broken in shuffle when there isn’t excellent coordination. What exactly is meant to be the weakness of this spec? JoTP has to go```how much likes?
jolly sierra
xdddddddd
zinc locust
Hey guys, i'm pretty new to being a rogue and i'm playing subtlety. I was wondering if sacrificing Danse Macabre for Gloomblade would be worth it?
danse macabre seems to only give a brief damage increase of 6% - 24%, while Gloomblade deals bigger damage than backstab & it ignores armor because it's shadow damage
fervent cobalt
is thiefs bargin broken for vanish? its not adding the 33% at least in world pvp. but I just came back so im not sure if im missing somehting
pale storm
Check the pins, it’s been a known bug all DF unfortunately
Nightstalker talent also doesn’t work
dull bridge
danse macabre seems to only give a brief damage increase of 6% - 24%, while Gloo...
as a sub rogue your mode of operation is doing big damage in small burst windows; you're quite useless while shadow dance is not up. since we already pretty much deal no damage outside of dance we want to lean on our strengths as much as possible. right now the build meta is (or was) building up a big dance macabre buff and doing big damage with sectech. gloomblade has limited usefulness since you can't go toe to toe with anyone outside of dance anyways.
fervent cobalt
@pale storm thanks bro
zinc locust
as a sub rogue your mode of operation is doing big damage in small burst windows...
Thanks for the advice, but so far it seems i'm doing better with gloomblade. Maybe it's because i'm only 370 ilvl and danse macabre will scale better when i get some good gear, idk
jaunty mirage
Legit think that first week of 10.07 can maybe compete with launch dks
Ret paladins*
jolly sierra
lol
jolly sierra
have u seen the new amazon prime gaming announcement? they are giving away mounts every month, maybe we can get a spectral tiger
jolly sierra
if this is true, then the snobby pvp players will be unsubbing
HAHAHAHAHA
remember the outrage w the feldrake?
tribal bay
if this is true, then the snobby pvp players will be unsubbing
why
its a TCG mount
whats that got to do with pvp
jolly sierra
in my server at least
tribal bay
they're just trying to slowly devalue TCG cards
jolly sierra
a lot of pvp players
flex on this mounts
when are in arena
specially the spectral tiger
is just for their ego XD
here we have a server called Dun Modr, is full of that ppl
jolly sierra
the least mounts i've seen are wod pvp glad ones
the gronnlings
nether drakes rarely, but gronnling maybe 1 or 2
waxen meteor
do ret still use the 4 combo finisher talent?
jolly sierra
weird, u can use final veredict w that and still go ok
that shit is still unnerfed
i've done like 200k w that
potent pivot
jolly sierra
F
waxen meteor
i should be able to log back in
but then wow client decided to run update
the 4th solo started with 2-0
jolly sierra
how it does update while u are playing?
eternal aurora
hey anyone wanna group up
waxen meteor
how it does update while u are playing?
I quit app as well when it dropped offline, reconnect key somehow failed
jolly sierra
I quit app as well when it dropped offline, reconnect key somehow failed
weird
what about straight logging from wow.exe?
minor cape
boys use flex mounts
men use hearthsteed
😎
i checked for fun
the leaderboard
of sub rogue in shuffle
i didnt play for a week
last time i was like #1000 with 1800 rating
and now im #600
lel
with same rating
ah no nvm checked US by accident
vocal surge
xD
nova viper
minor cape
🫡
vocal surge
Weak Class, get rolled on
harsh steppe
gm
harsh steppe
i had to delete it =/ i, thought it was but it was a 5-0 😦
so embharassing
what's the best way to get to full cp (other than shuriken storm if not possible) if i get taken out of stealth before opener
vocal surge
We're gonna be nothing more than fodders to the flame
surreal barn
I really want to show off the BS and GB buffs
I already have my talents picked out. Taking sepsis and flag
vocal surge
Aye
bold bison
make sure to outplay them so hard they think Rogue is OP and needs nerfed
surreal barn
make sure to outplay them so hard they think Rogue is OP and needs nerfed
I plan on queuing w trackpad on a potato
tribal badger
thats the average dev setup so u shuld be fine
faint vessel
Are all your pvp gears crafted?
waxen meteor
make sure to outplay them so hard they think Rogue is OP and needs nerfed
Best strat =
Do a bunch of useless cc with reduction, and no dmg, and die quickly
that's how you cry
and get buff
jolly sierra
wear your skimpiest shit for the ptr testing and let urselves die to get some buffs from devs
bold bison
I would be sad if everyone got the rooster, but I got mine for 30euros during MoP so can't really complain
wanton breach
what is this spec
tribal badger
kill da totem simulator
god i had a soloq with unholy dk demo rshaman the other day
i actually wanted to neck irl when they were on the same team together
the nameplates
dull bridge
nameplate cleave hell yeah
vocal surge
Take em by Surprise increases your haste by 12%
anyone else noticing that in the PTR?
pale storm
<:despairge:975807482490421329>
What is the baseline sprint tooltip for each spec?
pale storm
No, I mean the sprint tooltip, not the pvp talent
tribal badger
did u have that talented for sub and not for law sin
theres nothing to make their sprint longer baseline
pale storm
What is the %? Does it say removes roots? I think sub has 4 because you have the pvp talent?
tribal badger
^
dusky wing
Which weapon for combat PvP wotlk ? Mace arpen feel good but fist and sword seems nuts
jolly sierra
Which weapon for combat PvP wotlk ? Mace arpen feel good but fist and sword seem...
we mostly play retail in this thread
pale storm
Forgot I have it talented lol
What was the % speed increase for each spec and does it say removes roots on sprint tooltip each spec?
jolly sierra
it should increase to 250% and remove shit but just staying by 2.5s and u being unable to do stuff
but is not implemented yet tho
pale storm
Interesting, thanks
quaint cedar
anyone here doing the pvp with the blues?
tribal badger
wdym u can use sprint twice as often
wait what do you mean the primary purpose of sprint was to get out of roots not to actually physically run to the dude
🥹
quaint cedar
gonna love just sitting in roots forever doing nothing
so many exciting rogue gameplay improvements to look forward to!
tribal badger
its ok outlaw still has a ton of root breaks outlaw will be great next season 
jolly sierra
imagine the fkn mage just using frost nova on u and then using it again when is bursting and using glacial pike
u can just stare to death now
pale storm
Hopefully they change sprint to break roots baseline like the datamined tooltip
quaint cedar
yeah and now with the new pvp talent he can poly you at low health without healing you and then just run out of range and cast glacial spike and you can't do shit about it
tribal badger
the trick is to
have the mage on ur team
ngl rmp is looking a little spicy with that mage pvp talent
jolly sierra
the datamined tooltip is a bfa added sprint
quaint cedar
yeah but I feel like that's the wrong direction to go in
jolly sierra
"added in 8.1.0"
quaint cedar
people complained that RMP has too much synergy
so let's make rogue utter dogshit so they are even more glued to RMP than ever before
and then give mage buffs
makes sense lmao
tribal badger
i will say that the new mage talent has big "season where druids just rotate clones on the entire team the entire game with no downside" energy
and everyone hates it when druids r like that
cause there is legit no reason to not just randomly poly everyone to dr when ur not hitting them
u even get a friggin damage boost for doing it
mage is gunna be hella toxic
jolly sierra
quaint cedar
oh yeah
and feral gets a damage boost for pressing clone
and gets automatically put into cat form
and people thought this patch would make them sit less CC!
jolly sierra
is frustrating af when u are rooted and w sprint in cd
specially in drood, hunt or mage matches
u cant do anything
unborn portal
New pvp talent just dropped 
Knuckle Duster - When a player escapes kidney shot blinds cooldown is reset.
holy fuuuuck
quaint cedar
RP walking and constantly rooted
jolly sierra
where tf did u checked that lol
unborn portal
on april 1st patch notes
unborn portal
jolly sierra
XD
vocal surge
527k HP now
unborn portal
im still playing priest rn instead
vocal surge
with new patch
unborn portal
all conq gear?
unborn portal
stonks
vocal surge
spring bough
200k more hp sounds nice hopefully outlaw tier doesnt get nerfed too bad and still smokes it
scarlet shell
damn bro now they gonna nerf outlaw before 1.0
jolly sierra
what the fuck
vocal surge
Yeah
Outlaw Rogue's not it in 10.1 lol
We're essentially budget Fury Warrior with less mobility
jolly sierra
who tf changed our thread name
jolly sierra
i blame whispyr
vocal surge
its the 31st of March
scarlet shell
We're essentially budget Fury Warrior with less mobility
funny someone mentioned the exact same thing on the DF test channel
vocal surge
That was me
scarlet shell
lmao i was about to ask
scarlet shell
oh that wont be a problem
vocal surge
scarlet shell
its not like outlaw is gonna do anything in S2
vocal surge
scarlet shell
hey i am famous
lapis steeple
they could have come up with a better name
I put an equal amount of effort into renaming the channel as blizzard did into the game mode
unborn portal
I put an equal amount of effort into renaming the channel as blizzard did into t...
did not expect reply
lapis steeple
<:hmMM:1044805218946269205> did not expect reply
I am always watching
vocal surge
Outlaw: Abuses bug "Maybe this'll be strong"
After Season 2 PTR: "You know, this spec needs some serious help."
Someone in chat said Fistweavers can do 100k HPS
w. new honor talent
Soulrip breaks Gouge
quaint cedar
lol how?
vocal surge
Ran down the caster comp
Issue is
mobility
It'll take time to get used to
but vs certain comps as Outlaw
you just cant do damage
quaint cedar
honestly I'm having a hard time telling much of anything from mine
my first shuffle every game ended in like 15 seconds because one guy just didn't press defensives
quaint cedar
2nd was a caster group with borngood as one of the healers
vocal surge
when I realized it was him
quaint cedar
I got a 3-3 there felt ok
quaint cedar
yeah I get you happens to me too sometimes
vocal surge
R1's are very fun to fight thou since you learn new tricks from them
quaint cedar
I got to fight nahj in my ptr BG that was fun
quaint cedar
honestly in my BG I did really good damage, not so much in the shuffles lol
no freedom sprint feels very very very bad
devs are smoking crack if they leave it like this
vocal surge
So whats your outlook at Outlaw rn
jolly sierra
and a ret, pre nerf
killed the ret and he surrendered
quaint cedar
So whats your outlook at Outlaw rn
honestly it feels about the same
damage is maybe a little better because of soulrip, hard to tell
only noticeable cc change is the blind nerf, that hurts
vocal surge
Yeee
scarlet shell
manuveur is so bad
quaint cedar
also no maneverability feels AWFUL
scarlet shell
thats all i hate about this new patch
vocal surge
Cant maintain my sustain
quaint cedar
out of anything so far
vocal surge
without my Maneuverability
vocal surge
Sprint feels useless
scarlet shell
and i cant break out of root, so double pass
vocal surge
and I can't reset when I want to
quaint cedar
I keep pressing sprint when I'm rooted expecting it to break
vocal surge
I have to rely on my healer to take me out of bad situations
quaint cedar
and then being sad as fuck
scarlet shell
^^^^
i forget i cant unroot so its now in the trash
i cant go back to Enduring brawler bc its also in the same can.
vocal surge
Enduring Brawler is indeed mandatory
jolly sierra
rogue's darkest moment
scarlet shell
i just want my stamina enduring brawler back
scarlet shell
me wants tankiness for a rogue
quaint cedar
yeah but more chance for double hit on sinister/ambush is so important
like you are losing so much damage from not getting procs
vocal surge
Enduring Brawler was good
because of the sinister strike
Stamina was the scapegoat
for S3/4 Outlaw being op
when it was the borrowed power
quaint cedar
yeah we lost a lot from shadowlands
honestly season 4 outlaw felt the best imo. by then the over tankiness was nerfed and shadowdust was nerfed
vocal surge
For me, it was Season 2
quaint cedar
it felt like it was in a good spot without being completely stupid broken
yeah season 2 outlaw was the most fun but
vocal surge
Season 2 Outlaw wasn't overpowering
quaint cedar
evasion on full CDR was kinda dumb ngl
quaint cedar
because that was before the float nerf, so we had evasion like every minute
vocal surge
Difference between S2 Outlaw and S4 was S4 had an overwhelming amount of combo points being generated
scarlet shell
i alternated between GSW Echoing Rep and Venthyr Blunderbuss
quaint cedar
plus 20% extra stam
quaint cedar
was a little too broken
vocal surge
S2 didn't get their Evasion in 1min
scarlet shell
i just fell for Blunderbuss
vocal surge
because Prepared for All wasn't as strong
compare to the S3 276 upgrade or S4 version
quaint cedar
yeah that's true
vocal surge
in S4 I was getting 1min Evasion
quaint cedar
maybe I'm misremembering idk
quaint cedar
season 2 was my first doing rated pvp, so I might remember some stuff wrong
vocal surge
and it had a ton of depth
quaint cedar
yeah season 2 outlaw was so damn fun I miss it
vocal surge
S4 was when the rotation was
Sinister Strike Sinister Strike Sinister Strike Dispatch
Concealed Blunderbuss Pistol Shot Dispatch
repeat
Which our current class design is replicating rn
with Fan the Hammer
quaint cedar
tbh I do like the current version of outlaw
shadow dance on outlaw is really cool imo
but I do miss the tankiness, really miss flagellation
idk why they gave it to sub they never played it anyways
vocal surge
I had fun but now Outlaw feels like S4 Outlaw
Ambush -> Dispatch -> Pistol Shot (Broadsides) -> Dispatch
Ambush Dispatch
Pistol Shot Dispatch
and if you dont get broadsides, its just 1 more button press
There's also a lack of variety in the rotation
and rules
in Shadowlands, you can perform your PvE rotation to maximize your damage
in PvP
If you had Ruthless Precision
quaint cedar
the main problem I have with outlaw right now is that sinister strike feels awful to press. It does like 0 damage. you're supposed to be in this ambush -> dispatch -> pistol shot -> dispatch -> repeat loop, so the only time you press sinister strike is when the procs aren't there
vocal surge
you had a reason to press Between the Eyes
Because it did more damage than Dispatch on a crit
now that its a talent in one of the most inaccessible routes, no one picks it and it does less damage than Dispatch on Crits
tribal badger
well you still want to cast bte on cd because GSW damage is worth it
vocal surge
Ye
tribal badger
either of those talents cause that
chrome schooner
Also bte increases your crit chance
that's the main reason
wiith gsw
its own damage doesn't matter all that much
scarlet shell
GSWed BTE hits like a train and free crit yay
chrome schooner
Idk I think it's pretty good
just bad numbers
but the design feels really nie imo
nice*
vocal surge
My issue is that FTH and Blunderbuss
both kinda made Outlaw bad
It feels good, but it forces the devs to balance around it
far more than any other talent we had
You look at our base kit
Sinister Strike, 45 energy 1 combo point, 35% - 40% chance to strike twice
vocal surge
Ambush, 50 energy 2 combo points (3 w. talent), has chance to strike twice equal to Sinister Strike
rn im avoiding PvP talents
because we're balanced based on PvE
instead of PvP
vocal surge
Which is really evident with how many nerfs we got compare to PvP buffs to compensate
vocal surge
Not all classes get the same treatment
and then theres Pistol Shot
40 Energy, 1 Combo Point (2ps w. Opportunity Quick Draw, 4 total with Fan the Hammer)
chrome schooner
3 different spells = too much ?
vocal surge
No
chrome schooner
What do you want, to spam 1 ?
chrome schooner
well in terms of damage you should be pressing 5 excluding any cd
vocal surge
rather than SL S2 Outlaw where I had to plan ahead what buttons I want to press
and change based on my rolls
chrome schooner
I mean it does change with rolls still
vocal surge
nope
quaint cedar
I mean if you asked the average person outlaw always has and still is very complicated to play in pvp
I don't think it's fair to say it's "watered down" right now
I've consistently seen top players say outlaw is very difficult to play because you have so many procs and buffs and debuffs to manage
wanton breach
I don't think it's fair to say it's "watered down" right now
compared to season 3 shadowlands or other iterations - quite so
quaint cedar
on top of the standard rogue kit in pvp
chrome schooner
Yes. You will not, for instance, follow a Fan the Hammer with a finisher if you don't have broadsides (going from 0), if you have skull you know your rotation will change because you will have a million procs, if you play a nodance build you know the crit buff with Seal Fate also changes things, etc
long sonnet
hey there, I know a lot of changes have happened to rogues recently (especially to sub) - is assassination still doing okay in pvp?
wise breach
None of the rogue specs are doing particularly well atm due to how the meta has shifted since 10.0.7
waxen meteor
weird
First queue after drop offline yesterday, ended 5-1, noticed that my MMR didn't decrease from previous drop offline yesterday
so it was just a 150 CR punishment somehow
+90 CR from the game today
jolly sierra
so it was just a 150 CR punishment somehow
just noticed its a bug, u won't drop if u DC suddenly when ur internet drop
but if u for example just alt f4 or leaves by urself u will lose the mmr
minor cape
hello people very pleasant
minor cape
just noticed its a bug, u won't drop if u DC suddenly when ur internet drop
i think its intended
to not punish random disconnect as hard as leavers
jolly sierra
u can force that, think some streamers do that for soft reset
jolly sierra
fine
you need coaching
is not ur setup the problem, maybe is the way u are playing inside arena
harsh steppe
i am being coached, & I still suck this bad
jolly sierra
what about sending a footage here, for us?
jolly sierra
then do it to show us
im in the morning shift in work, nobody comes here so have time to review or something xd
harsh steppe
i have though before a few times, I'm just not getting better ugh
alright i guess, ty, here's a round from yesterday
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1780765560?t=00h31m29s
ionic crown
no one playing rogue rn
jolly sierra
i can see a lot of stuff in ur footage
surreal barn
Pool energy before your cc
jolly sierra
-
u almost don't use cheap shot, why? i would fight to death w people to allow me to use it anytime
-
you are not tracking cds properly, when the guys are bursting, your addon overwrites it from showing when they uses another cds (for example bop from ret)
-
ppl in shuffle is dumb, just follow their plays w kill target, dont complain too much xd
-
don't backpedal, u were talking to me a week ago about time efficiency but that is one of the most time wasting stuff in pvp
-
don't use ur stuns in DR
-
use blind in more crucial moments if u don't use it for chain cc, like when u are about to burst
-
gouge, u can use it more doing something like shadowstep, turning to their face and then a cheap shot
surreal barn
To add… after your sap on open cheap shot off target then instantly start dps to pressure kill target
Otherwise the sap is kinda wasted
jolly sierra
- if the guy uses bop, just change target or run, is useless to hit him there
look, as assa in matches, i usually run straight to healer and then sap, sap sap then blind
harsh steppe
thank you so much imma write these down
jolly sierra
if is in combat, just blind, then sap sap sap
harsh steppe
i get yelled at if i sap to blind healer lol
surreal barn
Ya if you backpedal once as a rogue you are the solo shuffle lobby’s new kill target the rest of your match
jolly sierra
usually they forces shit by frustration
then i just kidney the shit them to make them waste their time
and run to combat, cuz their dps are getting torn
surreal barn
Screen seems kinda full also. Sappable is a good add on if you don’t have it
jolly sierra
u are a cc machine, u need to use more ur ccs
i would like to show u a footage of me, but my computer explodes if i do that cuz its low power
so can just advice xd
harsh steppe
1. u almost don't use cheap shot, why? i would fight to death w people to allow ...
1 > i don't ever use cheap shot because it takes off my kidney dr?
2 > ah ok i can move my ui stuff around
3 > so should i not even bother who the kill target is? half the time nobody goes to kill target anyways
4 > what do i do if i don't need to move tho? just do circles around the kill target?
5 > yah i need to work on that, ty
6 > that too lol
7 > so gouge to cheap shot you mean?
zeiss > i don't think i can do that... the targets are always all spread out, it's already taking so long to sap healer then get to kill target, wouldn't healer > off target > target take too long? plus cheap shot is so short anyways
8 > bop = their shield?
zeiss > i have a sap addon but don't even understand why sap is so valuable as a rogue, maybe once every few matches do i even see it usable on an enemy
"other ccs": how? i simply can't remember them all, there are too many, everything happens so fast, everything has to be timed with dr... shit's impossible seems like unless you've been playing WoW for 15 years...
surreal barn
Yo don’t be scared to DR your cheap shot on your “go” tho
Like CS into your burst if you see that fucker casting after a trinket then cheap shot his ass again
jolly sierra
-
use cheap in off targets like the chicken when is hitting u or the healer when an enemy is low hp
-
yes, adapt more to dumb people
-
turn with mouse to back, not using S and try restealthing more, u have cloaked in shadows
-
yeah, gouge cheap shot
-
bop is the shield w the crown, he will be inmune to most of ur dmg
harsh steppe
Like CS into your burst if you see that fucker casting after a trinket then chea...
ah okay i can do that
jolly sierra
as assa if i see a kill target is low hp i usually kidney the healer to delay them and let the dps die
spring bough
I dig the new pvp channel name 😂
harsh steppe
1. use cheap in off targets like the chicken when is hitting u or the healer whe...
i'm having a lot of trouble with cheap shot, i can only use it in stealth so i always press shift-1 (shadow dance) before i use cheap shot (1) just in case i am not in stealth, which really slows me down. sometimes i just press f (all my buffs macro) and then cheap shot if im in a panic; & even if i know i can cheap shot, it still takes me a second to look on the screen to see if im in stealth, then hit the cheap shot, by then it's already too late
alright fuck it imma just use top target and stop trying to coordinate, hopefully it's just a lower bracket thing im sure in higher ranking people actually communicate/stop going off targets every five seconds. what if they KEEP switching though?
cloak of shadows just gives me magic immunity not put me in stealth i thought? i only use that when i'm being cced if my trinket is off, and it only works for like 1 or 2 ccs, so i waste it a lot but i can't remember what to use it on
i always save my kidneys for the kill target, but i can try using it on the healer if kill target is low
yah i just tested it, cloak of shadows doesn't put me in stealth
why do i need to gouge > cheap shot instead of just doing cheap shot?
- bop is the shield w the crown, he will be inmune to most of ur dmg
i've tried to remember this but i just can't, they have too many flashy skills for me to know when they use bop idk
jolly sierra
cloaked in shadows is a talent which gives u dmg absorb in vanish
u need to track better ur cds too tbh
harsh steppe
how tho
jolly sierra
like using weakauras and tracking ur cds in mid of ur screen
harsh steppe
like using weakauras and tracking ur cds in mid of ur screen
i have them right under that main center bar tho?
even now, like all these tips are so helpful, but i'm not going to remember them all tbh... maybe one or two tbh, i'm just stupid
jolly sierra
too small
jolly sierra
with practise u can hone
try more in skirmishes too
to do that and avoid losing cr
spring bough
epic way to start the morning lol
harsh steppe
alright tysm
jolly sierra
np
if u wanna practise w me later u can come to ptr and can show u how i cc or control main targets usually
a guy here from US went there to test stuff w me as EU
dull bridge
i'm having a lot of trouble with cheap shot, i can only use it in stealth so i a...
sounds like you're trying to do too much. also i don't understand what do you mean by "too late", you don't need to run a gapless 40 hour cc chain to win games at trench rating.
jolly sierra
u know what, i'll gather a guy from here and do voiced explainations in a vid
it doesnt spent too much disk outside pvp or raiding
but after the work
rotund vapor
Hi guys, I always played PVE , but i want to dive into PVP, Im very used to using outlaw, for learning pvp should I use Sub or Assa?
wanton breach
this game is so stupid, 3 rets in a 2k mmr lobby and it's just an utter zergfest
jolly sierra
Hi guys, I always played PVE , but i want to dive into PVP, Im very used to usin...
assa
wanton breach
Hi guys, I always played PVE , but i want to dive into PVP, Im very used to usin...
if you want to learn pvp in battlegrounds i would recommend trying your hand at sub, assa is good if you want to play 2v2 with a healer - otherwise it can be said that usually what you are most comfortable with should be the go to unless there is a steep difference in power level.
rotund vapor
Ill probably will learn pvp in arenas
scarlet shell
still play what you want but imo assa is free kills by just applying dots and smokebomb
rotund vapor
Which one is harder to play, assa or sub?
scarlet shell
ngl, sub
rotund vapor
Got it, will learn asssa then
scarlet shell
even me who plays outlaw, moving to sub is a challenge but i am getting the hang of it
rotund vapor
And guys where i can check a good guide for pvp gearon
rotund vapor
Thanks guys, appreciate ur time
scarlet shell
personally, pvp faq is where i learned sub
wanton breach
instead of learning sub i'm playing ret paladin, requires way less brain cells and effort 
scarlet shell
oh yeah good point
bc of the ret paladin stuff, this season has just been invalidated
everyones a ret paladin now
thanks blizzard
wanton breach
hey, more ret paladins means faster queues as non-ret paladin dps afaik
graceful ravine
this is true, we are quite pleasant here
jolly sierra
have any of u went to pvp testing w blues yesterday?
harsh steppe
@jolly sierra nah it's ok i appreciate it tho
i know what to do i just can't do it, my brain just turns off after the opener
dull bridge
trying to learn pvp with sub rogue is a bit griefing yourself
jolly sierra
think he needs to cool himself more while playing too
harsh steppe
yah i should have picked sin
or ret paladin lol
jolly sierra
doing random stuff knowing the basics is something related to be nervous
but tbh im bad af as sub too lol
harsh steppe
if i could put a hotbar with just icons of things i need to also be using i think that'd be helpful
jolly sierra
so i play as i feel comfortable
if u want a CR reset as assa i can teach u the basics
dull bridge
hyper you need a level of comfortability with your damage before you're even thinking about cc
harsh steppe
i think that would just confuse me more atm tbh
i'm comfortable with my dps just not my CC, i think, i mean i got my burst down
dull bridge
and you should learn fundamentals like what each class does, which defensives and damage they have, get an addon like bigdebuffs and/or nameplatebuffs so you know when they used them
harsh steppe
i did though, i have bigdebuffs & gladiatorlos & nameplatebuffs, and i customized each one for what specific spells to look out for, and it's all so much
maybe i should go back & delete them even more, & really focus on what's absolutely detrimental
dull bridge
yes. most rogues have sth on their screen showing shadow dance duration
jolly sierra
how much time has disarm remaining, how much time of shadow dance u have, if u are in stealth or not
track ur kidney shot to chain disarm half of a second before ending
dull bridge
i did though, i have bigdebuffs & gladiatorlos & nameplatebuffs, and i customize...
yeah that sounds a bit overwhelming. I'd get rid of gladiatorlossa and nameplatebuffs. bigdebuffs shows you important stuff %95 of the time. loss a and nameplatebuffs are great but they take a lot of tuning until they're actually providing information.
dull bridge
track ur kidney shot to chain disarm half of a second before ending
you're talking about minuscule improvements while homie is trying to nail down basics
harsh steppe
well i went through losa & deleted 90% of it and kept what's important and set the timer to only once every 2.5 seconds... i could increase it tho? i like it a lot and think it helps
i'd rather use them all and just severely limit them then delete specific ones entirely
dull bridge
you don't need to pre sap the trinket and disarm their go while melding polymorph
harsh steppe
my biggest problem atm is what to do in between goes; i just backstab and try to pop crimson vial & feint while trying to land a long rupture & then go for another burst, but i'm not doing any thing else pretty much
dull bridge
you can't, that's pretty much sub rogue for you
spam shuriken storm and finishers to reset your CDs or run if you're dying
harsh steppe
ok ty
i'mma do a major ui overhaul today and really minimize things and spells even more then first
and then i'll try to keep doing the basics in games
i'll play for 2 weeks or so and then post another vid here for more critique, hopefully i won't be 100k games and still under 1k lol
but ty all for your help i really appreciate all of yall's help i'm not gonna give up
jolly sierra
also i check ur gameplay
u are most to stay in combat
maybe u wanna play assa
is easier and have almost the same level of cc
harsh steppe
i'm sub for life baby
jolly sierra
sub does dmg in shadow dance windows
pale storm
this is true, we are quite pleasant here
you are the most pleasant person in here!
jolly sierra
i'm sub for life baby
ah, before u go
remember than cheap shot bypasses parry and dodge, even ppl using die by the sword or evasion
gl
harsh steppe
ooo ty
which of these is the annoying one paladins cast when they get super low life and makes them unkillable for a few seconds? these have similar effects
jolly sierra
can i see the entire paladin tab pls?
harsh steppe
this one, but it's just for buff down
i'm deleting a lot of them so i can focus on the most detrimental ones
harsh steppe
no i just want to know what that annoying shield one is so i can set it on buff down so i know when to go for them again while i'm on off target/running away etc
harsh steppe
ah ok ty!
jolly sierra
spellwarden makes inmune to magic dmg, something u have too
jolly sierra
change the name of this channel to pvp ret
tribal badger
so far the only gatekeeping ive noticed keeping my ret from 2400 is 55m queue timers
🥹
queud 4 back to back soloq games in a row on my 2k ele shaman to fill out my vault yesterday after work
swap over to ret
first queue 1h 5m
this is classism if ive ever seen it
jolly sierra
ofc there are like 255356365 other rets queuing
tribal badger
let them all cook in 1 match
4 rets 1 match
let other people not run into as many
the proper way to balance ret in soloq
make it always queue into another ret
jolly sierra
i got 4 once including me
jolly sierra
just match pallies w pallies and its over
pre nerf was enough with 1 going healer
they just fkn explode inside a stun
celest blaze
Any assass/sub rogues able to answer a quick question?
pale storm
What’s up?
jolly sierra
wut
minor cape
you didnt answer quick enough
he decided to create a ret
he is already 3.5k
we are too late
surreal barn
He already had a 3.5k ret he wants to try a skill based class now
jolly sierra
he was a r1 and wanted a real challenge
jolly sierra
how much to resume?
scarlet shell
justice demands retribution.
i would respect anyone who brings out rogue in AWC vs the ret wave
jolly sierra
when does awc starts again?
jolly sierra
just played a skirmish w a ret against a ww and a frost
the ret killed both and i barely did 50k dmg
think he didn't needed me for anything 😦
bold bison
jfc i can't express how much easier demo lock is than anything else
legit think it's easier than ret
jolly sierra
to play u say?
bold bison
yeah
rotationally simple, short CDs to trade, massive passive damage
you can tank a lot of damage if you trade correctly
and you literally boss the middle of the map
once your pets are out that's your damage, now you can just curse stuff and fear
bold bison
dark pact absorbs 300k damage on a 45 sec cd
port behind pillar is 30 sec cd
but tbf you will have 2 x melee smorcing you endlessly
and every lobby is triple melee
jolly sierra
that is the reason i hate locks as kill targets in lobbies
destro is easier to train
but demo can stun u in his stun
jolly sierra
dorime
narrow tangle
are they going to nerf pala? have devs said anything? Not just the class also the amount of ret players are annoying
jolly sierra
if they thrashed assa 2 weeks in a row they will do it w ret
wise breach
Probably more changes after AWC
I hope...
Otherwise I'm not touching my rogue until S2
vocal surge
ngl
today I woke up
and did something productive rather than hop onto WoW immediately
jolly sierra
just tell me when it is REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
jolly sierra
and did something productive rather than hop onto WoW immediately
every time i play wow after waking up i lose cuz im still sleepy af
vocal surge
F
jolly sierra
Otherwise I'm not touching my rogue until S2
but anyways, strongly agree w u, if we were squishy before, now we are just crepe paper
we need a buff in elusiveness and recuperator tho
vocal surge
They did nerf all of our healing
So many paladins still delusional about sucking vs rogues
jolly sierra
how tf if they can kill them in a fkn global
and counter them with just a fkn defensive through stuns
waxen meteor
and did something productive rather than hop onto WoW immediately
you mean watch wow video for 4 hours
unborn portal
jolly sierra
usually when i wake up in morning to go to work i stay in bed for like an hour
else i would sleep idle
jolly sierra
cuz the bed is comfortable
jolly sierra
and i have a 5kg cat above me
unborn portal
5kg 
jolly sierra
also i have sleep issues, takes a lot to sleep in my case, and if somebody makes my phone ring i don't sleep anymore until the night
once a fucker woke me to offer a phone service and after that didn't slept anymore
graceful ravine
Isn’t it crazy how many different metas we went thru this season
fotm in full force literally
jolly sierra
the 1st thing is because blizzard is openly hearing ppl in everything when they complains
the second one, is this the strongest ret iteration, there was something worse before? in another pvp season?
vocal surge
you mean watch wow video for 4 hours
nah, cleaned my room and did practiced cooking
waxen meteor
Isn’t it crazy how many different metas we went thru this season
yeah it's like a mobile gotcha game
jolly sierra
holy wasn't that strong to be extremely op
prot
well don't recall
but i recall pelagos ret 1 shot
clever blaze
are we just struggling this patch in solo? getting smashed
it's train the yellow now?
wintry dew
Tbh if you're not a demo warlock or a ret, you're the train target. Rogue isn't really strong against this specific meta
white gazelle
Or bm hunter I feel like no one ever goes me
minor cape
dude i saw this post yesterday and laughed so hard for some reason
not the comment but the whole post
candid tide
bring bak deathmark 100% pvp dmg
tribal bay
it's train the yellow now?
wasnt it always?
i feel like unless you survive the first 3 rounds its train the yellow. If you survived the first 3 rounds of train the yellow they tend to try something else
copper maple
I have a similar looking cat 😄
wanton breach
10.0.7 solo shuffle as rogue feels like
minor cape
fuck this
tribal bay
10.0.7 solo shuffle as rogue feels like
make a ret
wanton breach
make a ret
already duelist on it, trying to get elite for transmog 
tribal bay
make a 2nd ret
candid tide
pls a few more ret nerfs so another portion of players can leave wow
vocal surge
the balancing was almost on point at the start of the expansion
if the outliers were nerfed, it'dbe perfect
but no
"WaIt foR tHe TiEr Set"
harsh steppe
tier set looks really good
cheap shot gonna be op af
gonna be in constant shadow dances
vocal surge
I dont think its gonna be OP
Its just gonna be good
and ye, my anger's has kinda become vitriolic x)
thinking about not playing WoW beyond S2 just to regather myself
and double down on anger management
prior to WoW, I hadnt had an outburst except for 1 under intense stress
then returning to WoW goes from fun to sheer frustration
wise breach
10.0.7 solo shuffle as rogue feels like
This is in 3s, but these numbers are hilarious
naive plank
so people are not even trying
red tiger
Is there a new bug that like, keeps your stealth bar up for 0 reason right now, or am I just experiencing my own issue
jolly sierra
dude i saw this post yesterday and laughed so hard for some reason
tbh dunno if is a good idea to invest in skill capped
jolly sierra
I have a similar looking cat 😄
wtf cloned cat
minor cape
tbh dunno if is a good idea to invest in skill capped
400 rating through inflation
😎
its cool to see pro player replays i guess but if you are that much of a tryhard why not analyse your own
red tiger
before it swaps to your normal bar
No I was locked in stealth bar, not doing it anymore
jolly sierra
its cool to see pro player replays i guess but if you are that much of a tryhard...
dunno, some persons didn't notice anything wrong
vocal surge
No I was locked in stealth bar, not doing it anymore
Ooof
candid tide
i really want to try out ret in arena but just dont want enter a lobby as the 4th ret
jolly sierra
WE NEED SURVIVALITY BUFFS
vocal surge
dunno, some persons didn't notice anything wrong
They could just ask their own discords pvp channel for help for free
jolly sierra
yeah, but i heard than they even have replays from very specific matchups for every class and spec
tbh dunno how is inside but if i would buy anything soon will be the desktop
dull bridge
some twitch streamers are as good if not better than skillcapped
depending on what you play
red tiger
Believe it or not, enjoying pvp with outlaw.
surreal barn
Might have had a stroke
Was so excited his queue popped that he had a stroke after being able to pop wings after an hour of waiting
spring bough
This was the 6th round and we had the better healer. He even BOPd but the shaman purged it and the enemy boomy just crit him into oblivion
jolly sierra
we need a guy in skillcapped to tell us about a footage against ret
100% sure just will say "give up"
jolly sierra
how is that possible lol
me ret me smash
waxen meteor
Believe it or not, enjoying pvp with outlaw.
Why do you lie to yourself my friend
red tiger
Why do you lie to yourself my friend <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
Not even lying
Playing with ret friend
shits fun
dull bridge
Playing with ret friend
I think I've found the culprit
waxen meteor
Yeah but you can still out skill some
When healer is good it’s still playable
What’s annoying is death mark is doing not too much even they stay on 100%
naive plank
thought was a torture for rogs
I q for 1-2 random BGs a day
most of the time it's sad...
not even gonna talk about arenas
jolly sierra
What’s annoying is death mark is doing not too much even they stay on 100%
that is the reason i loved the 4set from next season
worldly girder
is 10% hardiness still enough to prevent sub from fitting a global between the 2nd and 3rd cheap shot?
wise breach
Second cheap shot will be 1.8s vs orcs with 10% hardiness
so there will be a small gap
worldly girder
Damn
jolly sierra
still better than a 20%
worldly girder
True
wicked tide
either way it fucks sub rogue rotation 10% or 20% still have to hold global to not gap stunlock, so it doesn't change much vs orc
minor cape
just kidney an orc, got it
such a stupid ability
should have made it to 5%
like it is now
jolly sierra
just -5% received dmg baseline and its done
minor cape
delete green quasimodo!!
copper maple
Changing enemy sub rogue's stun lock rotation by being orc is kinda busted imo
wicked tide
yep been like this forever now
naive plank
isn't that the story for sub rogue in every new expansion. They release new expansion --> sub rogue is strong af --> they nerf the shit out of it --> in the first major patch(x.1) i becomes a meme spec
jolly sierra
after kyrian nerf in s1 and a very high venting ppl moved to venthyr
they had a backup
copper maple
isn't that the story for sub rogue in every new expansion. They release new expa...
They did it better in bfa. In the first weeks they just slapped like -50% damage to evis and shadowstrike (not sure about the exact values). That was also when assa was already the most popular rogue spec
naive plank
They did it better in bfa. In the first weeks they just slapped like -50% damage...
yep. I played that one. Sub was unplayable for me
imo anything less than a rework for sub rogue(ret pala level rework) will be a dissapointment
copper maple
It was a cc bot for fire mage in 2s
With spammable greater pyro and other fire mage things
Majority of wow community hate rogues so I wouldn't expect much.
In PvP at least
naive plank
I really think that shadow dance should become some a 45 sec CD for sub rogues only
copper maple
But majority of wow community are people who trinket sap
jolly sierra
but was op af in both pvp and pve for nazmir raid
copper maple
sub was dead in that road
It was dead since that first nerf
naive plank
and they should make our steal/stealth abilities fun agian
copper maple
0 changes whole expansion
copper maple
Nah they killed aoe there
naive plank
but was op af in both pvp and pve for nazmir raid
literally the only use for sub in the whole BFA
jolly sierra
was in the moment they removed shuriken combo
jolly sierra
ah i recall the azerite trait too
op af
yeah, was nerfed too
then assa took the spotlight specially for s4
naive plank
and btw I started playing my alt DH
literally /2 buttons I need to play that one
compared to sub rogue
and btw is there ANY usecase for sepsis in PVP for sub rogue?
dull bridge
dealing damage
wanton breach
ret paladin winning a lobby against a hunter without playing judgements of the pure... this is infuriating
ashen sparrow
The Meta changes. Let me have the moment in the sun. They will squeal like pigs when they can’t get rating next season
copper maple
ret paladin winning a lobby against a hunter without playing judgements of the p...
Wasn't it changed to no longer affect ret's teammates?
Ah right
jolly sierra
100% sure they will make rog viable again for pvp later in this xp
no, im not consuming copium
dull bridge
funny thing is JotP will still make you unkillable by destro, boomy and ele
tribal badger
its still extremely strong yea just not auto win vs them
spring bough
frustrating when the other DPS doesn't want to train fistweaver lol. they die so quick >.>
waxen meteor
frustrating when the other DPS doesn't want to train fistweaver lol. they die so...
Yeah
I think they are quite killable
But I don’t know if it’s because I am not playing at high enough rank
copper maple
I've finally achieved my little goal of getting rival. And just like the last season I played (SL s1) I failed to do it on my main rogue, but succeeded on priest alt 🤨
Funny thing is, I was like 1400-1500 yesterday, decided to get some quick games for travel log thing. Got to 1783 yesterday and finished today with one game.
I've already given up on ranking up at that point lol
It's like you never achieve something when you really want it
wintry dew
It's like you never achieve something when you really want it
Huge gz on your priest my man.
I also tried out ret this past 3 days and got rival in... 10 shuffles
(60 matches)
I was lucky this season tbf on my rogue, reached rival in the 2nd day of the season
copper maple
I've gotten to something around 1750, but lost a bunch of rating.
copper maple
What's the most annoying to me are DPS queues
minor cape
i dunno i never played before df
minor cape
you like get one pop in 5 minutes and for the next pops sit in queue for 30
some reason first pop is always fast
copper maple
I queued a game on a warrior now, 16 min in
copper maple
does it take your class into account?
copper maple
it shouldn't imo, just throw all the fotm rets together
they can have their own little circlejerk
minor cape
well like
copper maple
with resto shamans
minor cape
it tries not to, but if queue is too long it will
like it first tries to have no duplicate classes, then no duplicate specs and then at one point just says fuck it
and creates a 4 ret lobby
copper maple
just put rets into separate queue 😄