whats worse, having the gamble early season at who gets to be best for entire pvp season? or like 4-5 different metas over a season
#pvp
jolly sierra
have u checked how we will get the tier sets? will be timegated again?
or the catalyst will be open since day 1 with 1 charge for week?
jolly sierra
fucking shit
tribal badger
catalyst has never been meant to be the primary way to aquire tier so until blizz changes their minds on that
it will be that way
its supposed to be an alt/catchup mechanic
jolly sierra
is unfair with us playing pvp
tribal badger
ye
jolly sierra
the only way to get a decent piece is from there
or w luck
so, will we need to get 1k8 at week 1 to get a free piece of HC?
think is possible tbh and maybe a good idea for the timegating
tribal badger
idk how the new reward system works
u can upgrade pve gear better then u could
but pvp gear is w/e u can always get 1.8k the next week and upgrade it to 1.8k with honor
if u dont manage w1
but yes it is an advantage for pvers to unlock their full pvp vault for more tier chances
harsh steppe
@bold bison @minor cape just as an update in case yall were curious, it was because I enabled "detached group" under the cooldowns section (assuming the same thing happens w/ the detach option in other sections too idk) for some reason enabling that caused it to glitch out, but once i unchecked it, it fixed it finally (i even factory reset my computer trying to fix it LOL but that wasn't it lmao)
harsh steppe
yep & couldn't play wow for a day LMAO
minor cape
harsh steppe
all i had to do was uncheck that option...
🤦♂️
how do we get that purple illusion glow / is it out yet?
tribal badger
the patch 10.1 datamined illusion glow?
harsh steppe
oh is it 10.1? damn
tribal badger
ye
vocal surge
F for this Outlaw lol
He blinded me too early
Gave him a tip for Outlaw Duels lol
Which is the first to blind early loses
First to blind Evasion wins
unborn portal
vocal surge
Mack
unborn portal
blinding air
vocal surge
remember when we dueled
unborn portal
nope
vocal surge
how whoever blinded the Evasion
unborn portal
Im delusional
vocal surge
won the duel
unborn portal
lmao yea
vocal surge
XD
naive plank
damn playing DH is so fucking easy... not nearly the same amount of buttons and setups like Sub...
vocal surge
Depends if all the buffs align or not
vivid pond
ok if controllable buffs align?
river pollen
Is sub good rn in pvp?
surreal barn
Anyone having luck over 2k w sub rn?
I feel like I need to switch up my talents or some shit
river pollen
Havent played since december, i remember sub was in a meh place
surreal barn
Can’t get that kill lol
pale storm
sub is awful
Have you played around with different talents at all?
tawny kestrel
yes
bold bison
Is sub good rn in pvp?
no it can't do enough damage to kill, and the big meta classes are a hard counter
park it until 10.1, but if the patch went live as advertised at the moment it would be even worse
bold bison
assa is B-Tier at the moment, no changes in 10.0.7 but it's a melee meta and you will get violently steamrolled. you're still good into casters.
waxen meteor
Sin needs better dmg
or better survival (but that means basically same class as others)
I think this frequency of adjustment this season is good, but they need to look at the content with vision.
as said months ago, adding a bunch of pvp modifier will eventually just lead to chaos
imagine 10.1 comes live
surreal barn
I haven’t really been getting steamrolled but… they know I’m not much of a threat and just play around that 
waxen meteor
yeah you got ignored or killed
naive plank
assa is B-Tier at the moment, no changes in 10.0.7 but it's a melee meta and you...
I get steamrolled with sub as well...
seems like the only options is choose the position I want to be gangbanged...
bold bison
the extra vanish, peels and the option of vanish shield helps Sub a lot but yeah a lot of lobbies will just run at Rogue because they're used to Assa folding
bold bison
as Sub you should be such a livelord that you make them feel like it's pointless to go you
waxen meteor
probably it sells more 0-lv60 packs
since reroll is so easy now
you buy a 0-60, pet fight to 70 in 2 hours
geared up from main or AH or MFG wherever
ready to go in 8 hours
bold bison
I had 17k conquest on Rogue so I paid gold to powerlevel my Priest and Paladin to 70 and bought conquest boxes
scarlet shell
i cant be asked to play rogues in SS ngkl
imma wait for S2
i just have no defensives and get burned easily so yeah
wise breach
S2 with 5s Blind and 4.5s Kidney vs Orcs will surely be better!
naive plank
as Sub you should be such a livelord that you make them feel like it's pointless...
once upon a time, knowing that a rogue is stealthed around you, made you have the chills
now they just laugh at you
wise breach
I'm just waiting for PTR patch where they give us new PvP talents
That could be the only saving grace
pale storm
Wish they would fix thief’s bargain pvp talent so that it reduced vanish CD, that + CDR + vanish Shield would be super nice for Sub defensives. If only they would have not nerfed Sub burst
waxen meteor
S2 with 5s Blind and 4.5s Kidney vs Orcs will surely be better!
still everything links to dmg
if dmg *2, who cares about 4.5 kidney
i hope they would at least heavily compensate us in dmg for the loss of cc
blind 5s is too dumb
wise breach
Sure, but ultimately that seems like a terrible direction for the game to go in
Like that Luxxia video of two fistweaver ret hunter teams PvEing each other until one dies
waxen meteor
Agree
For me, it's very sad.
I understand game design would prefer to have general baseline.
but it doesn't mean to make each class/spec equal, no burst, no cc
just go there and do standard dps, and standard hps
that's easiest to balance but also least fun
kill the apparent broken stuff and leave some class/spec signature thing
scarlet shell
S2 with 5s Blind and 4.5s Kidney vs Orcs will surely be better!
yeah well i am already playing my mages so i am satisfied
i smoke rogues when playing my mages idk why
jolly sierra
assa is B-Tier at the moment, no changes in 10.0.7 but it's a melee meta and you...
we will need to wait till 10.1 to raise tier again in assa, cuz tier and probably meta shifting to wizards
do we have any news about crafted pvp embelishment for melee?
wise breach
I think it's still a placeholder
tribal badger
dont see any reason it wouldnt
they have not said anything about changing it and thats how its been for years
dull bridge
i wish they'd stop with the "x does y with %z effectiveness" bullshit
completely kills the already lacking visual readability
like am I being banged by this boomy or did he just proc a fury of elune?
tribal badger
bro look at all these new toys
wheres our new toys
unholy dks get an entire minigame pvp talent
😠
lucid citrus
Looks like another week of sitting
ruby drift
Just seems like more time for y’all to press judgement
dull bridge
Feral
New PvP Talent: Wild Attunement – After successful Cyclone casts, you are automatically shifted into Cat Form and your next Ferocious Bite, Rip, or Maim within 5 seconds also casts Feral Frenzy.
what the actual fuck
what the actual fuck
vocal surge
dull bridge
what the actual FUCK
wise breach
Elite set tints confirmed
https://twitter.com/leekatv/status/1640850434469531648
tribal badger
ok but
dull bridge
honestly they better be cooking something real good for us
dull bridge
because this shit they're adding to other classes look absolutely sick
tribal badger
cause this is wild
direct buff to rogues by buffing mages
i approve
poly the healer low > words i never thought id utter in this lifetime
scarlet shell
hell yes
ruby drift
honestly they better be cooking something real good for us
A decent rework may be on the rise
They might feel obligated since the premier pvp spec of rogues will be in shambles come cc changes
But most likely not lmao
dull bridge
New PvP talent: Go the fuck to sleep:
Blind lasts 2 seconds longer. Sap can now only be used on Blinded targets.
I'd take it
undone bobcat
for real - short cd and short duration sprint without root removal
ruby drift
I’d love for them to rework sub and get away from the one shot design
dull bridge
for real - short cd and short duration sprint without root removal
i don't know if i like that, steel trap already ruins my day
tawny kestrel
for real - short cd and short duration sprint without root removal
is that real
undone bobcat
is that real
last news at wowhead, datamined class changes 10.1
tribal badger
its not in the notes but its in the datamining
grand haven
ruby drift
Just play with ret you sillies
vocal surge
also I wonder how the math will work on it
ruby drift
Tis obv they are just setting us up to play with rets since they need more friends
dull bridge
it looks to be assa only?
vocal surge
if we take new Maneuverability w. Improved Sprint
undone bobcat
cc duration reduced,kick duration reduced, pretty meh burst dmg and sustain, pretty meh survival, no longer ignore roots, no longer blind vanish sap - i got no idea whats going on
vocal surge
Sprint is a 2min CD right
New Maneuverability reduces Sprint CD by 50%
-60s
w. Improved Sprint, another -60s
so it'll be 0s CD or 30s CD
tribal badger
30s
undone bobcat
and looks like the main question is - dk or war or retri? 😄
dull bridge
that makes me think we really are looking for a fully fledged rework but not gonna get my hopes up
tribal badger
they told everyone that was getting reworks about the reworks they were getting
vocal surge
and proceed to undo the nerf by introducing the talent that counteracted the nerf
tribal badger
so about a 0% chance of that
but maybe theres a bunch of pvp talent changes in the works for us?
lots of other specs getting new toys
undone bobcat
that makes me think we really are looking for a fully fledged rework but not gon...
looks like its time for rogue community to say blizzard - rework or gtfo
tribal badger
that would be about the best i would hope for
vocal surge
Nerfed Subs to the point they have to one trick Sec Tec
and the other builds are kinda pepega
tribal badger
and some of them are wild
polymorph not healing the target shifts how mages can play in their setup comps
so hard
vocal surge
w. Gloomblade being buffed despite being the weakest
undone bobcat
atm i see completely no reason to just even try to do something as a rogue next season, no reason at all, this is just a bad joke
vocal surge
and then Outlaw having all nerfs w. 1 buff to Dispatch
jolly sierra
haha i called well the elite tint
vocal surge
Ontop of another nerf to Outlaw's only useful Secondary Stat
dull bridge
vocal surge
which is the -25% crit damage
so that pretty much removes our damage off the table
and the only way we can win now is to play heavily into dampening
Which the community doesnt want
and we dont want
dull bridge
if they don't make outlaw scale properly with secondaries i'm going to shid and came
undone bobcat
every f solo shuffle - let me sap, i'll cc healer, dps pls... kk mate.. round starts - heroic leap, charge storm bolt. every f warrior, literally every
vocal surge
Ontop of that
I showed a friend who played WoW a long time ago
saying PvP was intimidated
they said WoW PvP looks super stale and boring
w. the double Fistweaver w. Pally DPS and Hunter
jolly sierra
they will buff a lot rog in next season if they see they lacks representation for all this BS
100% sure is not our end
tribal badger
you'll all be sorry for shittalking blizzard when the OL pvp talent "cc now applies via blade flurry" drops
jolly sierra
yeah just a nerf recently but also some random buffs
always happens, watch those piñatas druids has as casters
were shit and then buffed to heaven
jolly sierra
im tired of this bullshit
they should gave us ravenholdt as hall since legion
and thrown us to a fkn sewer
vocal surge
Or that Alterac Valley Castle
that was overrun w. ogres in Classic
There's also Booty Bay
jolly sierra
maybe if legion were in beta in this era we would got it with all the feedback they are despaired to realize
jolly sierra
There's also Booty Bay
mm booty
vocal surge
XD
But ye
Could've turned the Ruins of Alterac into the Class Order Hall for Rogues
waxen meteor
so it'll be 0s CD or 30s CD
I love how positive you think!
jolly sierra
<:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021> I love how positive you think!
bring back burst of speed an we are good
jolly sierra
guys lets drop CR to 1k and pressure blizzard in forums to give us the good shit
jolly sierra
cuz they hears the noobs
vocal surge
Also cant post in the forums sadly lol
I tried to contact a GM over it
and they said "Check the region of your account and the region of the forums"
jolly sierra
ª
vocal surge
Never been so livid waiting 3 days for a response like that
jolly sierra
tf about that response
wise breach
Logged on PTR to check, sure is there
jolly sierra
bullshit
tawny kestrel
the cool enchant is not from pvp btw
vocal surge
Especially Outlaw
jolly sierra
the shadowflame one?
tawny kestrel
ye
jolly sierra
then we dont have any news about 2k1 enchant yet?
tawny kestrel
no
jolly sierra
welp
vocal surge
raz, what is your wisdom on 10.1?
jolly sierra
so the only interesting thing to get for now is the sheredder blue set
is this over for us?
jolly sierra
pally gang?
vocal surge
and Survival Hunter
jolly sierra
sure why not, im joining u
pale storm
wtf is this lobby: double prot pal, ret, destro, demo
wise breach
RIP
jolly sierra
was nice to meet u
scarlet shell
god please i dont want to see another demo lock in my lobby
i dont want a pet swarm meta
ruby drift
wtf is this lobby: double prot pal, ret, destro, demo
?
Is that an actual ss lobby rn?
tribal badger
yes prot pallies count as "healers"
ive gotten a few games of double prot this season
but you'll only ever get double prot not prot vs healer
dull bridge
that's insane
pale storm
Is that an actual ss lobby rn?
YeH, it was miserable lol
jolly sierra
how did u ended?
pale storm
2-4, should have been a 3-3 we had a lock at 5% one loss :/
Luckily I was coming off a 4-2 and still gained some rating, climbing out of the rat leagues as sub
jolly sierra
ah then its ok
wise breach
potent pivot
jolly sierra
wait so it is a mount
its a skin for the best drake
tribal badger
band all the rogues together
potent pivot
everyone was saying it was supposed to be one of the bosses
tribal badger
to camp the blues
potent pivot
wise breach
You want to get nerfed even more?! 😛
jolly sierra
harass the blues
in their own game
if it doesn't work they will feel pity and will buff us KEK
waxen meteor
https://www.wowhead.com/news/pvp-play-with-the-blues-in-random-bgs-and-rated-sol...
queue up with developers??
are the devs super good players as well?
just play rogue and be killed day in day out pls
wicked tide
Its actually really important that rogues of all skill ranks including rank 1 rogue players attend this so blizzard can see whats going on with rogues on live
vocal surge
Lmao
pale storm
Half the people in here play rogue, other half play annoying classes like war, DH, ret, lock and let the other classes destroy the rogues so the devs make us great again
jolly sierra
we need to show them than we are shit
waxen meteor
it seems all DHs have given up pvp
DH discord pvp channel has become diablo4 channel
no joke
dull bridge
it was the softcore gay porn channel when i was there
jolly sierra
lol
dull bridge
good that they switched it up
jolly sierra
imo they are the toxic rogues which rerolled in legion
waxen meteor
it was the softcore gay porn channel when i was there
cant say you are wrong
quaint cedar
Wtf is going on with rogue? I actually think the devs just don't want anyone playing rogue anymore
I can't imagine why anyone would play rogue in 10.1
Unless there's something really cool they have planned that we haven't seen yet
dull bridge
as you said we'll literally never know until the patch hits
there's no point in thinking about 10.1 when even the devs don't know what's gonna happen to rogue in 10.1. if it's still dogshit on the patch day then we riot. no need to pre-mald the patch.
quaint cedar
I mean we're dogshit right now and there's no indication it's going to get any better in 10.1
dull bridge
there's no indication of anything for 10.1. the patch is out in 2 months still. they're literally testing out the preliminary changed in 3 days
quaint cedar
idk sounds like cope to me
rogue has been nerfed every patch since DF release
outlaw has less representation than brewmaster monks in arena and all we've gotten is a measly 15% dispatch buff
after countless pve nerfs that snuck into pvp
10.1 is reducing our cc and crit damage making us even less viable
it just ain't looking good man
dull bridge
i mean it is cope for sure. I'm just holding out for a big change like SL s2.
the dumb thing about outlaw is you're heavily punished by downtime but you're not rewarded by uptime. you just get to do the same damage as everyone else if you're hitting a targeting dummy but in the world of micro cc i spend half globals on cc and the other half keeping up bte and snd and rtb
dull bridge
but I'm not a very good player and i only play for fun so it's still fun to challenge yourself. i got 1800 in 3s playing outlaw+boomy+hpriest, losing to what likely were 9 year old kids playing turbo cleave occasionally
but feels good knowing that I'm most likely the only person playing the comp in the bracket
quaint cedar
the dumb thing about outlaw is you're heavily punished by downtime but you're no...
That's a good way to put it. Losing uptime is so punishing on outlaw. That's what's so frustrating. Outlaw has tons of maintenance buffs, procs to manage, and CC to juggle, and your reward for all that is to do less damage than everyone else
If we really do lose current maneuverability in 10.1 it's going to be even worse
vocal surge
^
quaint cedar
I've been sticking it out all this time because I love outlaw so much. I grinded up to 2.4k in shuffle and 1800 in 2s (no 3s, sadly I don't have a team to play with).
dull bridge
devs had so much ptsd from shadowlands they undid all of their changes lol
when all they had to do was nerfing shadowdust
quaint cedar
They really did
No more stamina, no more evasion/feint spam, no more consistent pressure
It's disgusting how much outlaw lost
vocal surge
^
We lost damage
survivability
we're losing mobility
and we're losing our stat prio
quaint cedar
Yup
They just keep kicking us when we're already down
I'm fed up honestly
Like beating an already very dead and decaying horse
quaint cedar
lol and after all that from what I hear sub is the best pve spec now anyways
So all those nerfs for what exactly?
Fth nerf was the dumbest change I've ever seen. I would have rather gotten a 3% or whatever damage nerf than that garbage
vocal surge
I genuinely think
We should've never have gotten FTH
because our class design went down hill
with Blunderbuss
vocal surge
Its because Blunderbuss speeds up our Combo Point generation
way too much
Its like Ambush w. Broadsides
but available
and FTH's version uses Quick Draw as an enhancer for Opportunity
so its the most combo points in 1 press of a button
quaint cedar
I still think fth is way to pivotal to be all the way down one branch of the outlaw tree. Really constrains builds since everything needs to go at least down the right side
jolly sierra
just made a set which matches w ret when u are using the tabard guys
just in case u will use it
quaint cedar
Yeah I guess that's true, I just can't deny that I really enjoy the fan procs and the fast combo point generation feels nice.
jolly sierra
petition to allow ret posting here just cuz we can potentially hide meanwhile and the real one is shit
quaint cedar
Blizzard should just give ret a pvp talent that gives them stealth
jolly sierra
KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOING
quaint cedar
Ret is already better than rogue in every way, might as well give em stealth too
tribal badger
bro this class is the weirdest shit
like the damage dealing function of it is utterly brainless
but i had to make like 60 macros
to handle all the group utility
frfr
jolly sierra
i have everything in mouseover
jolly sierra
cuz im too lazy to make macros
jolly sierra
for example if someone is being fucked i just flash of light or word of glory them w mouseover
tribal badger
targettarget is redonculious tho
cause ur always just casting ur hands on the person the enemies training anyway
turn brain off, auto immune the ally
jolly sierra
kek
i have the final reckoning w mouseover too cuz i hate pressing it then aiming
so it toss it insta
vocal surge
Same
jolly sierra
is just fkn redundant
u wanna go fast
so, u are hopeless atm for this season as rogues, right?
tribal badger
i aint queuin anymore thats for sure
got all my gear to 409 ilvl
got all my pve sockets
dont rlly need pvp vault slots anymore
jolly sierra
sad
tribal badger
its not rlly the meta tho cause im law so im agnostic to all these changes
my spec was always bad
🥹
moreso i have no reason to sit on my main for 45m queues at 2500 mmr
tribal badger
when i could be grinding out gear for alts
vocal surge
also
cant tell what our stat prio is suppose to be
rip Details
Ye without the trinket stat bonus
I have 400k HP
at PvP ilvl 450
dull bridge
bruh moment
vocal surge
+6k HP moment
and non-crit classes are 26% stronger
based on the metric Ian gave us in the interview w. Preach Gaming in SL
where 1 ilvl = 1% power growth
dull bridge
it's probably not in tbh, i just don't see them walking back on the trinket stat bonuses
vocal surge
Yeee
dull bridge
that would be insane
vocal surge
I also dont feel like I do more damage
Instead I feel like I actually do less damage
dull bridge
true rogue experience
tribal badger
i mean crit nerf is like a direct nerf to law
it does most of its damage thru crits
u have like 60% crit rate in pvp
🙂
im sure blizzard will COMPENSATE tho
or u can just stack one of the other very strong outlaw secondary statistics
haste to auto faster or mastery to pirate RP harder
jolly sierra
they forgot us rogues
vocal surge
and not crit damage
I mean stat wise
on Tier pieces
theres only 2 items with crit on it
rest has Haste/Mastery
or Haste/Vers
vocal surge
and they're on the lower end
tribal badger
the crit damage part is what hurts
tribal badger
tfw a change probably meant to cut down on the high end of burst actually hits a pure sustain zero burst spec the hardest
vocal surge
than going 4p into 10.1 set
tribal badger
vocal surge
Yes
tribal badger
yes its doing roughly 6X the damage it should be
vocal surge
Ah
If its doing x6 more damage than it should
its likely we might just use the 10.0 set instead
lol
as Outlaw
jolly sierra
that is the issue
vocal surge
ehhh
tribal badger
i mean just to put it numbers wise current 2set is like a 5% ish set bonus (in pve) a bit more in pvp maybe
new 2set would be flat 5% damage
4set likely 6-7%
this tier might be double current tiers total strength'
vocal surge
Not really no
remember
our current tier enhances our biggest source of damage
by 40% / 48% / 56% (assuming max combo point spent) for Ambush and Sinister Strike
and Dispatch by 25% after using Opportunity Pistol Shot
compare to a 2p and 4p that constantly changes
and requires you to put in damage
for it to do damage in return
tribal badger
sure and the total bonus value in pve where u get to do ur pure sustain rotation with no interuptions that set is worth like 7% dps
the current one
its probably closer to 10% in pvp
cause difference in damage sources
vocal surge
Even the Alacrity PvP Trinket gives 17.12% of our total AGI
vocal surge
Ooof
waxen meteor
did a bm/dk/ret lobby pfff
guess who is the default killing target 🙂
btm i am the rogue
dull bridge
it's hunter for sure
vocal surge
But ye
the biggest thing is maintaining a strong 2p DPS and hoping for big 4p procs in new Tier Set in PvP
dull bridge
vermillius do you know how much of a % increased damage find weakness is against plate?
vocal surge
vs no maintenance high damage profile old tier
waxen meteor
the hunter apparently tried to avoid being targetted and came out with his glad mount lol
then stealth
pfff
vocal surge
lemme log onto a plate character
since Find Weakness lets us bypass 30% armor
F
Fatal Error lol
dull bridge
aight let me figure it out
vocal surge
armor formula changes
in 10.1
Also
dont click on The Azerite Advantage
if your on PTR Lol
it causes a Fatal error
10770 Armor at ilvl 450 (Full Conquest)
jolly sierra
it just crashes?
vocal surge
35.41% / 47.79%
35.03%
8194
tis weird
I see the game flash before my eyes
41 something
then it bumps up to 47.79%
there we go
41.05%
its about a 2%* damage increase
tribal bay
anyone else making a ret
vocal surge
Got my ret to lvl 70 already
Now that I think about it
Find Weakness is so backwards
jolly sierra
i already reached 2k4 w ret
vocal surge
The more armor the target has, the less value Find Weakness provides
jolly sierra
gear up a ret, will be our safe haven for this season
vocal surge
The less armor the target has, the more value Find Weakness provides
tribal badger
its not flat 30%
its 30% of the targets armor
so 30% of 2000 vs 30% of 10000
at least thats what pve has led us to believe
idk if its been tested directly tho
vocal surge
In PvE
dull bridge
i worked it out
tribal badger
in pve npcs have 30% DR from armor
vocal surge
its a decent %
tribal badger
FW is a 10% dps gain
vocal surge
Armor Formula exist
tribal badger
~10% dps increase
vocal surge
we bypass 30% of their armor
dull bridge
as it reduces that 30% dr by 30%
it doesn't work like that, it reduces armor, which doesn't scale linearly
tribal badger
it doesn't work like that, it reduces armor, which doesn't scale linearly
does for npcs
but idk how the formula works in pvp
dull bridge
armor pen has higher value against higher armor
tribal badger
all i know is in pve based on the spell data FW is a ~9% dps gain
dull bridge
from what i've seen it works exactly the same with different scaling ratios
tribal badger
well yes thats what i was saying
it should be a higher value against higher armor
cause its not flat 30%
its %
of total armor
dull bridge
idk what flat 30% means but that's what I understand when you say % armor penetration anyways
tribal badger
by flat 30% i mean
vocal surge
16.24% 3605
14.63% 2523 (-30% Armor)
1.62% Damage Increase
tribal badger
if u have 30% dr from armor (like a mail spec) it would reduce it to zero
that would be flat
dull bridge
i'm working it out to be %9~ damage increase against my rogue, would be even larger for plates
likely not worth dropping
vocal surge
It'd be weird
that we dont get more damage
from Find Weakness
Its probably better to test it
vocal surge
Yee
dull bridge
at infinite armor it goes up to %42 bonus damage compared to no fw
kinda sucks that we are basically locked into that talent
vocal surge
Ye
jolly sierra
look the tabard looks good af w mage tower ashbringer
in rets
the thing i like the most about playing w blues is about both shuffle and bgs
jolly sierra
if u wanna go put this times in ur calendar
jolly sierra
that SL set always looked interesting, the collector edition one
jolly sierra
my ret, i have my acc expired so i just took it from armory XD
vocal surge
my Ret Mog in 10.1
tribal bay
if u wanna go put this times in ur calendar
and what day?
jolly sierra
and what day?
march 31th
tribal bay
nice ill be there punching on my fistweaver
copper maple
Filthy rets infested our pristine rogue channel guys. What are we gonna do?
potent pivot
copper maple
I was thinking of playing a certain melee/healer hybrid class, but was picking between monk and druid.
jolly sierra
i was impressed how whazz was so happy after being thrashed by a r1 ret and then logging into his pally alt and doing the same
wintry dew
Join em
Funnily enough, i created a paladin yesterday, a tauren named "retribull"
(I already have a belf 60 but i wanna stomp people as a tauren)
grizzled basin
How good is sub in Solo Shuffle these days ?
Just hard a very hard time against one
dying in 1 stun when heal was cc
naive plank
How good is sub in Solo Shuffle these days ?
I'm getting fucked hard in arenas, but I also suck at them, so...
wary spire
Same.
naive plank
Same.
the funny thing tho. I leveled my DH and my Monk the past week and half of the keybinds I have for my rogue are empty for the other 2
wary spire
I think im getting a carpal tunnel from pressing overpower mortal strike on my warrior alt over and over again.
faint vessel
the funny thing tho. I leveled my DH and my Monk the past week and half of the k...
Press hunt. Profit.
naive plank
Press hunt. Profit.
that too. But not nearly as many button as Sub requires
not to mention that I have to sacrifice a goat, drink the blood of a firstborn, wait for solar eclipse, align 10 other CD and eventually I may score a kill
faint vessel
For dh? No, u just need energy so u can keep spamming chaos strike
copper maple
I think monk has a good amount of buttons to press. Like 4 or so defensive cooldowns (not counting ring and port).
naive plank
For dh? No, u just need energy so u can keep spamming chaos strike
No. for the whole drinking blood thingy was about the rogue
naive plank
I think monk has a good amount of buttons to press. Like 4 or so defensive coold...
I still had no problems fitting all into the keybinds. Can't say the same for the rogue
btw is there any viable ways to skip Shadowblades in any build?
narrow tangle
harsh steppe
when am i supposed to be using the /targetlasttarget macro? gm
radiant glen
never
wary spire
Skill issue 
radiant glen
alternatively, when you want to target your last target
harsh steppe
why not just use the target previous keybind
radiant glen
because it cannot be combined with other spells
harsh steppe
ohh
is there any keybind to target a hunter after they fein death? noticed targetlasttarget doesn't work for that
radiant glen
the only use ive seen for target last target is something like
/target arena1
/cast blind
./targetlasttarget
harsh steppe
ahh i gotcha
radiant glen
which is the same as just doing /cast [@arena1] blind so
harsh steppe
yah
radiant glen
also for hunters i just use unit name
like if u mash target arena1
and they feign
u still target them iirc
harsh steppe
ah ok makes sense ty
radiant glen
been a long time since i did that though so please test it first
harsh steppe
will do
faint vessel
No. for the whole drinking blood thingy was about the rogue
Ah yes, I switched from dh to sub exactly when the nerfs came in so I feel ya
magic mason
Hi ! What is the best spec for 2v2 ? I can't choose between sub & assa .. 🙂
tribal bay
Filthy rets infested our pristine rogue channel guys. What are we gonna do?
make a ret
tribal bay
How good is sub in Solo Shuffle these days ?
make a ret
copper maple
Ret isn't a definitive answer to everything anymore
bold bison
Ret spent 4 days as the best spec they've ever had in PvP, now just a plain old S+ spec
naive plank
Ret isn't a definitive answer to everything anymore
they are still strong AF
copper maple
But not as OP as before the nerf
naive plank
the truth is rogue is being nerfed because of some godmod plays at the very top of the ladder, while the gen pop like me is left to throw wet noodles to classes that have way more burst, sustain dmg and on top of that defenses....
copper maple
Assa haven't been nerfed much during my time playing DF, but it's kinda overshadowed by other melees
naive plank
I remove either ST or Cold Blood I effectively lose every chance to hit someone that hard so I can kill him...
magic mason
make a ret
I love to much my rogue to leave it
copper maple
That are tankier and can do similar higher damage
naive plank
we are squishy, not bursty enough, we can't do sustain dmg and our CC was not what it was once...
Paladins are of the complete opposite of this spectrum
magic mason
Sad .. 😦
naive plank
not to mention the simplicity of which you can set a kill with other classes
copper maple
CC is the only advantage of rogue imo
naive plank
and If I ditch cold blood for something else, or it doesn't align with ST, I have to pray to crit...
naive plank
for coordinated play yes
but kidney shot a cloth wearing class in BG and looking how backstab is barely doing anything is just sad
naive plank
to the amount of work you have to do to press a button for "The Hunt"
compare the amount of work you have to do to setup a good ST hit
ye, but frost mage can kite way more effectively than us, for a various reason imo
I'm basically spending time going back and forth with Sin/Sub and can't decide which sucks less to play it
I never liked outlaw, so that out of question for me
but that's just another crappy decision I don't have to make
bold bison
Rogue CC ain't shit in the current meta. Sanc and Intervene in every game, and gl landing a meaningful blind on a Fistweaver
we'll be meta again, it's fine
time to chill and enjoy alts
naive plank
I don't want to be a meta, I want to have the option to kill people on my own for a change
bold bison
yeah the SecTec nerf was completely shortsighted, it might have been okay if there were no other changes
I do wonder if there's an argument for Arterial Precision as Assa in this meta but I think it's a bit like trying to hold the tide back with bucket
naive plank
I really wonder if I ditch either SecTec or Cold blood, how I'm suppose to kill someone? Because if there is 1 effective way to be competitive against the others, doesn't that make you predictable AF?
tribal bay
I really wonder if I ditch either SecTec or Cold blood, how I'm suppose to kill ...
sectech hits hard enough without cb
naive plank
anyway it's sad
bold bison
Nahj just posted a YT video where he's using.... this?
Flag will give you pre-10.0.7 SecTecs I know that much
I played a CDR Flag build for a while, you get something nutty like 60% finisher damager from the Mastery stacks
minor cape
well tbh
an interesting build
and kinda makes sense
but nah not really xd
was he just testing a build?
bold bison
honestly I'd consider swapping ER for the 2nd Deeper Strat
minor cape
or was he actually climbing with it
bold bison
it's 5% more finisher damage plus more frequent 7cp finishers
minor cape
it is a preference
thing
i also play w deeper strat but trickz said im wrong for that
🫡
bold bison
what's annoying is that without flag you could hypothetically just stun dance er sectec for a big hit since you don't have to worry about Danse stacks
but with Flag you jsut need to press a bunch of finishers to build mastery
minor cape
doesnt it build from non finishers too
copper maple
I'm basically spending time going back and forth with Sin/Sub and can't decide w...
For me the whole stunlock gameplay gets clunky so sub isn't my thing anymore. Maybe it will feel better without 15% cc reduction.
Assa is chill, but dies more easily
Too many times I've just ran out of defensives even with running hp trinket from day one
bold bison
doesnt it build from non finishers too
nah it's from combo points spent
so you would flag > kidney > dance > evis > shadowstrike > sectec
and your clones would have stacks from the kidney, evis and sectec initial hit
minor cape
dont you like
flag
do an eviscerate outside of dance
and then do your kidney shadowstrike
evis
sec tech thing
for big dam
bold bison
so flag > evis > dance > 4cp kidney > strike > evis > strike > strike > sectec?
that seems insanely peelable
also flag is 1.5min CD, the only reason it was remotely bearable for me was I played Vanish CDR
idk there's no Sub build until at least 10.1 imo
surreal barn
Flag stays up for quite a while I usually do the normal burst after I’ve built up flag stacks
Once my mastery has hit 120% I have a tellmewhen start flashing
But yeah it’s all super telegraphed but so is our burst LOL
bold bison
do you pool energy before you press? CPs are so hard to acquire outside of dance O_O
the thing is our regular burst occurred once CC was set up, this potential gameplay is so peelable
Rogue presses flag without stuns /blinds etc - poly, clone, root, stun, disarm
surreal barn
I play with 150
bold bison
I found people were still in Shadowlands mode, even when i would flag/kidney then dance people would peel insta on the flag
surreal barn
Which is actually good if you use it early enough
They can’t afford the peel during the actual kidney
But yeah I really don’t like the playstyle in a shuffle
bold bison
I might actually try some queues with CDR/Flag
my SecTecs were about 80k higher than the Dark Brew build during big goes before the patch
surreal barn
It’s not bad but I definitely feel the dps loss from a couple of talents brew side 😂
Cleaner cheap shot goes too imo. For the hell of it I threw on onyx ring w twilight, static charge up, and blood stone and it put an extra 6-7% on open
Can’t sync with flag well though
copper maple
Solo shuffle moment
You can lose one lobby hard, but would need two convincing wins to start gaining rating
narrow tangle
rogue is so strong they should nerf (idk when to trinket)
copper maple
Existence of blind-sap actually removes the thought process of what to trinket against rogues. But instead they say "ugh blind sap is so broken, you can't trinket anything other than blind"
tribal bay
i also play w deeper strat but trickz said im wrong for that
thats because half the rogues are still stuck in shadowlands
ER sux
narrow tangle
your opinion is invalid i lost to blind sap in arena how can you say that 15 sec cc is not BROKEn
tribal bay
I play with 150
based this guy knows
copper maple
I've had a lobby where a warrior yolo leaped into the enemy team, healer got sapped, trinketed half sap and got blinded 😄
warm lance
that seems insanely peelable
Shadowy Duel. Kill people during it with flag.
bold bison
yeah I've been doing flag duel cheeses, but pressing flag 5 seconds before you stun and duel sounds like a throw
especially if it becomes the meta and people just CC you every 1.5 min on flag
minor cape
yeah I've been doing flag duel cheeses, but pressing flag 5 seconds before you s...
might be
however i tested it pre nerf
and secre tech damage wasnt that huge
like if you just flag, kidney, duel
right away
id rather have rotten
not sure how it is now
anyways just found out in subtelty chat that the new symbols on dance tier set will be sick
it does restore energy
and it procs rotten
will that be enough to replace the blind tho
🥹
warm lance
especially if it becomes the meta and people just CC you every 1.5 min on flag
Well yeah, but if its worked for people to push to 2.6k+ itll still work even if most start to figure out how to deal with it. You can really fuck people over and fast if you force trinkets from them and just let Flag stay up for an extended period
Then pop a fast burst window before their trinket is up again with extremely high Mastery %
minor cape
so what is flag the new build now
orchid nacelle
The S2 Gladiator mount looks awesome, is it realistic to go from absolute PvP noob to 2.4k in 1 season?
wise breach
That entirely depends on whether anything changes in regards to inflation and incentives for casuals to queue 3s
warm lance
I dont know if Flag will end up a new build or not but its been a cheese for months
wise breach
As things stand right now, not a chance
potent pivot
The S2 Gladiator mount looks awesome, is it realistic to go from absolute PvP no...
That’s typically a little high of a goal for a first season pvping seriously, but it’s not impossible
Try to get some practice in before this season ends and see where you end up 
unborn portal
with deflation as it is getting 2400 is pretty impressive at the moment; iirc right now theres only 700 people above 2400 including alts of good players so
not a ton of people queueing outside solo
atm
orchid nacelle
Thanks for the answers guys, that deflation issue looks concerning yep
waxen meteor
and it procs rotten
don't worry
orchid nacelle
This is a Dragonflight issue or it happened in SL and BFA too?
waxen meteor
it will be fixed
wintry dew
Everyone is playing shuffle, that's the problem
waxen meteor
i don't see that as a problem tbh
wintry dew
Why make friends when you can queu alone
unborn portal
This is a Dragonflight issue or it happened in SL and BFA too?
it happened s4 SL and S1 of DF
waxen meteor
shuffle is fun
the problem you don't really make friends at 3s as well
if you had some great games with great players, probably yeah
but then you will find your time never match again
man, i got something tmr.
shit i got something the day after tmr
---> meet like once per 2 weeks
wintry dew
That's more friendship than most of us know xD
waxen meteor
i would like some quality 3s
but it's just too hard to organize
or if you are in glad guild
probably ok
bold bison
I think someone said there’s 800 people above 2400 in US
wintry dew
I'm just glad I'm in a guild
waxen meteor
like the other day, i played some quality 3s as Rogue/SP/Hpal, which is super dated combo, but quite fun despite SP has very low gear
bold bison
Glad is extremely out of reach for most people until they make a significant change to inflation
waxen meteor
then we never met again pfff
unborn portal
This is a Dragonflight issue or it happened in SL and BFA too?
I dont want to discourage you; I think right now it would be pretty hard to go from newbie to gladiator, but I think of it from my experience. Theres a lot of information to digest in WoW and what to do, depending how much time you sink into it, how dedicated you are, how you handle losses, recording your own gameplay, RNG finding good team mates who are willing to work with you, asking people to review your vods, your communication skills in arena, analyzing gameplay of players better than you, etc. then anything can happen, you might be the next best rogue ever but its gonna take some work 🙂
waxen meteor
yeah
unborn portal
I think shooting for duelist (2100) in your first season is reasonable
waxen meteor
it takes a lot
waxen meteor
this is my first season coming back from dropping the game like 10 years ago from pandoria
i reached 23xx
waxen meteor
but years of practices of rogue before pandoria helped
my DH still sucks at 2000
and i don't bother to watch elite DH video at all
copper maple
will that be enough to replace the blind tho
Nothing can replace blind 🫡
unborn portal
copper maple
That's pretty much how blind works after the removal of blind dust or something
In tbc or wotlk
I never paid attention, but does blind have any proper animation?
Would be cool if it showed you actually throwing some dust towards your target
bold bison
biggest tilt of my life, I've been griefed on my elite game 3 times today
and queues are 40min for some reason
just let me get my tabard and transmog so I can stop playing this dogshit
waxen meteor
solo queue seems to getting slowlier and slowlier
honest i feel discouraged playing as well
it's all bm+demo+ret
i honestly don't know what to do
yesterday i run into DK+RET+BM lobby, horrible
glad i made 3-2 and a tie out
tie needs to be counted as a win on both sides, not a loss on both sides
that needs to be fixed
or just play on
bold bison
legit once I finally hit it I am not queueing a single game until at least 10.1
this meta is revolting, when they announced 10.1 PvP changes everyone said it would be a max damage PvE meta, like doing a M+ in the middle of the arena and we're already there
I actually hate shuffle, I've struggled harder playing with team mates I can't communicate with than I ever did in rated 3s
I've got 2400 in 2s, 2500 in 3s and 2500 in RBG multiple times and I cannot get 2.4k in shuffle on any class
so many 3-3 games with 6-0 healers, so many times the players are just so bad the game ends in 30 seconds without anyone pressing a button
all my past team mates quit the game and this really isn't as fun, I never rage at WoW like I have this season and I played since 2006
waxen meteor
i am actually surprised to see you able to make 2500 in 3s but cannot make 2400 in shuffle
2500 this season is like rocket high
narrow tangle
what's the counter play/pick for ret pala
waxen meteor
ah okay
narrow tangle
not just for rogue, in general
waxen meteor
go all in
you can't save any skill lol
you either get him in 30 seconds or you never get him
good priest can help a lot as well
Just a 30 seconds window between the
some priests pre-casts dispell on bubble is so nice
chrome schooner
what's the counter play/pick for ret pala
you can hope he has a disconnect
that's a good way to win
waxen meteor
you can hope he has a disconnect
i am totally desperate against demo lock + ret
it's like mission impossible
although the two specs don't seem to have any sync
they just exist to make rogues quit
wise breach
Demo makes me want to uninstall
waxen meteor
it's just mother fucker impossible
and just when you think it's possible, ret throws a physical immune
along with sacrifise etc. on the way
and all healings from healer and ret
6s cd heal without costing any source from ret
just a gloobal
and can also add more healing from their combo point
surreal barn
Like the castle in its corner
In a medieval game
I foresee terrible trouble
And I stay here just the same
These lyrics playing before my double ret queue
waxen meteor
These lyrics playing before my double ret queue
Why do you jinx me
two garrot and a kidney, teammate already dead
i know it's just a skirmish
but..
dull bridge
"retattack"
twin burrow
A lot of good players struggle in solo because it's a different meta playstlye
waxen meteor
some healers are good at healing but not so good when being targeted
bold bison
last game was pretty cringe though, mage went 64%-0% in 0.2 seconds
waxen meteor
if they got killed somehow at round 1
bold bison
literally
waxen meteor
it just collapses
bold bison
some healers are good at healing but not so good when being targeted
this was a resto druid going 6-0 against a MW in patch 10.0.7
100% a skill issue, the Monk didn't get trained once
dull bridge
i wish my defensive did 72k damage
bold bison
he's playing against double melee and doesn't fistweave
dull bridge
i've been playing prevoker and I love being targeted by dumbass melee players
harsh steppe
i know i asked this earlier and someone said it's useful for macros that have skills, but i'm just not getting the point of /targetlasttarget
is this something i can use by itself for some purpose?
harsh steppe
ohh so it's not something i really need anymore?
untold remnant
Meanwhile rogue damage gets nerfed and nerfed
bold bison
ohh so it's not something i really need anymore?
i don't know anyone that plays with it
I've seen some PvE mechanics that use it to cheese bosses but don't worry about it for PvP
harsh steppe
ok tysm ❤️
waxen meteor
Meanwhile rogue damage gets nerfed and nerfed
it is so funny
rogue dmg was not bad pre nerf, but it's also not significant and indeed we have good cc (bad survival as well)
it's great at r1, but just okay at normal player's hand
nerf nerf nerf
now no dmg and no survival
and while everyone else seems to have only bigger dmg
and continuous dmg
with their existing survival
jolly sierra
we stayed behind not because nerfs
but cuz our strongest counters got buffed and ret bypasses ALL our defensives
unless they drop tier we will stay in trash bin
minor cape
i honestly kinda logged in rn
beat a dummy a little
and was like nah fuck it
buff rog
😤
boy i do i love dealing no damage
twin burrow
Why did you log off then?
obsidian pulsar
is the alliance 25 horde kills quest gone ? its not there after todays reset anymore?
potent pivot
ohh so it's not something i really need anymore?
It was a required workaround to fix focus macros at the beginning of the expansion, though it might be fixed now I think
I just left it in my macros as it doesn’t really negatively impact anything
dull bridge
bicmex should have a fix on his youtube channel but maybe it's been completely fixed in game