pvp

[scarlet shell]

all they need to do is add fist weapons to the list of useable sub weapons and i have my shredder fantasy mog

[dull bridge]

i mean we kind of already are since our mastery is dogshit and scaling with haste is meh

[jolly sierra]

hard with a dagger needed in MH to do shit :l

[scarlet shell]

only 3 dagger mogs i use are Kingbane, Antumbra and Edge of Night

[languid ravine]

yes, but thats not the talents fault and these are two bad reasons to be locked into crit, do we really need to add a third bad reason?

[jolly sierra]

imo using kingslayers w sheredder set wouldnt be a bad idea

[dull bridge]

they shouldve changed outlaw mastery to proc change instead of proc damage 3 expansions ago

[jolly sierra]

specially the blue tint for end campaign skin

[scarlet shell]

i was so excited for Riposte's Parry

then got changed to main gauche

[dull bridge]

i mean, it was baseline in shadowlands and we went haste so i don't think it's a big deal

[languid ravine]

then thats because bte numbers are too 😄

[dull bridge]

yeah i just want to see big numbers 😦

[wicked tide]

I wonder if for sub set when it gives us symbols if it gives us the energy as well

[potent pivot]

whatever the Symbols tool tip says is what it'll give

[wicked tide]

kinda seems insane 10% damage and 40 energy everytime we dance

[jolly sierra]

hunt got a sacri

[dull bridge]

bigger question is if it will give rotten

[jolly sierra]

blinding got buffed

pvp leap talent removed

they are buffing sp by a lot

HAHAHAHAHAA

they fucked storm keeper

[scarlet shell]

i love how a helpless ret paladin can somehow in a 3v1 one shot me

took everything from the guy to make sure

but ofc final verdict gaming

[jolly sierra]

u can disarm them now, veredict requires a weapon

[scarlet shell]

hey they fixed that ugly sound from the ptr

[unborn portal]

I left s1

“Tank trinket? Ok bye”

[jolly sierra]

dunno how tf they managed to pass through that xp and SL

[unborn portal]

[wise breach]

No, they changed it so that holy damage breaks it too

Except Consecration

I hope Assa 4pc procs if DM is removed with dwarf racial, Bandage, or BoP

Otherwise it's going to be awful

[jolly sierra]

fuck

same, if it works like we are thinking then assa main issue will be fixed

[dull bridge]

am i seeing wrong or did priests get spirit link?

[wise breach]

Tbf it was fucking stupid when rets could get someone from 100 to 30 in a blind

[jolly sierra]

agree

[wise breach]

Seems like it!

[jolly sierra]

just blind, then reckoning then toll then veredict

yeah, is a spirit link

[dull bridge]

that's crazy

[jolly sierra]

do u think will still stay as S tier?

[jaunty mirage]

its way better than spirit link

id be malding pretty hard about that if i was a resto shaman

[jolly sierra]

how? spirit link works more than once, this just works w leap cd

[unborn portal]

Meanwhile me who just leveled a priest alt

[jaunty mirage]

spirit link can get killed instantly, and relies on people standing in it

[unborn portal]

Yoinking both team mates is actually crazy

[jaunty mirage]

yeah

[unborn portal]

That too

[jaunty mirage]

being able to pull everyone to you and have essentially a single tick spirit link effect

[jolly sierra]

thought spirit link was insta spreading

[jaunty mirage]

its just another big time cd that disc really didnt need

[jolly sierra]

at 1st time

[unborn portal]

It links immediately and continues to distribute which is also strong

[jaunty mirage]

yeah

[unborn portal]

But usually you just need 1 stabilize

[jaunty mirage]

but generally gets killed instantly

[unborn portal]

Ye

[jolly sierra]

just checked something too

spirit link is every 3m

leap is each 1

[jaunty mirage]

yeah

[unborn portal]

Yep

[languid ravine]

Question: will you be able to pull Teammate A, while he stands inside a smoke bomb by targeting and pulling Teammate B?

[unborn portal]

Doubtful

[jaunty mirage]

that would be nuts lmao

surely not

[jolly sierra]

lemme read well

[unborn portal]

It would imply you could yank them through walls

[jolly sierra]

can be possible tho

[unborn portal]

If you could do smoke bomb

[jolly sierra]

if it doesn't target off comps

we can infer from chain heal

does it work in smoke bomb?

[unborn portal]

Working in smoke bomb is different than working into and out of it

[jolly sierra]

the thing is implied it doesn't target

[unborn portal]

Right but

[jolly sierra]

if it doesn't then the chance to work outside it exists

[unborn portal]

No I don’t think so

It’s still using leap of faith rules

I doubt it

[jaunty mirage]

if you could yoink people out of smokebomb that would be pretty wild

i cant imagine theyd do that

[jolly sierra]

we can check in ptr tho

[jaunty mirage]

yeah

[jolly sierra]

is already implemented?

[dull bridge]

disc instant radiance is gone

it's pretty big

[jolly sierra]

the biggest nerf there was stormkeeper tho

with a 0.2 pvp multiplier KEK

[dull bridge]

they increased the lightning bolt damage baseline in pvp that's why they domed stormkeeper

[jaunty mirage]

looks like just moving ele further into a sustain spec and nerfing their burst more

[unborn portal]

Did you see ele 2pc bonus

[jolly sierra]

they nerfed surge of power too

[jaunty mirage]

did anyone post the rogue sets

[jolly sierra]

yeah, above

[jaunty mirage]

or are those not datamined yet

[jolly sierra]

assa has a rupture additional dmg as nature w 2set and 4set makes increased nature dmg by 40% if DM ends

ppl was saying its boring, but imo even w being boring is good af

[jaunty mirage]

sub bonus could actually be kinda nuts though

[unborn portal]

Here u go

[dull bridge]

i don't think it's boring at all changes how you play a lot

can consider playing sepsis for once

[jolly sierra]

sub

or kingslayers

[dull bridge]

and if dm doesn't get dispelled its gonna be hella pressure for a long time

[jolly sierra]

yep

[jaunty mirage]

sub 2pc i guess could be considered boring

since you pretty much always press symbols with dance anyway

[jolly sierra]

yeah but u can have it for another dance

[jaunty mirage]

yeah

[dull bridge]

sub 4 PC is boring imo, probably won't play it. 2set changes a lot

[jolly sierra]

agree

[jaunty mirage]

2set makes every go dangerous

[jolly sierra]

even more w crit reduced

[dull bridge]

you can play really aggro in the opener

[jaunty mirage]

yeah

[jolly sierra]

assa

[jaunty mirage]

2set basically gives you a double opener

[jolly sierra]

imo is crazy good w both set bonuses

seems like ele is screwed this season

demo scares me

warr can be bad w tier this season

both fury and arms

this seems good

the 3 hunt tiers seems dangerous too

[jaunty mirage]

demo is legit gonna be broken

its getting regular buffs as well

10.1 demo is gonna be nuts

[jolly sierra]

yep, if i lose a lot in that moment i will expect some nerfs like in this season tho

demo literal will machinegun any guy in burst if that is untouched

[spice harness]

I see trill playing always one dance build with thistle tea, while main rogues like whazz, pika, nahj all play ''meta'' 1 dance build with reprimand, is one dance also good , if so what are its strengths over meta build ?

[tender ferry]

Trill is basically just playing the PvE build

It’s still sub and it’s still good. Doesn’t offer quite as much control but you still have two vanishes for cute shit

Pumps a bit harder during dance windows

2 dances is more forgiving

Thistle tea seems the most appropriate for sub ironically and it feels great to have

[waxen meteor]

looks nice

sub 2pc also looks decent

macro no longer needed

[dull bridge]

now that we're playing danse macabre it's not good to macro sd and symbols

[jolly sierra]

kek

finally

[dull bridge]

you probably want to open with dance into cheap/kidney into symbols shadowstrike or sth

[potent pivot]

unironically pushes sub toward a gloomblade pve build even more

going to have to use symbols outside of Dance now on purpose

[dull bridge]

which is great

[potent pivot]

not really, imo

kinda lame

[dull bridge]

ehh

i know we're all 5k xp rmp only players who pre-slice and dice the go and meld the healers trinket

but it's good when your spec can be played in more than 2 comps

[potent pivot]

PvEing as sub just goes against what it's core fundamentals and identity has been for years

we already have 2 specs that just PvE

sub is much more fun when it's played more around burst windows, set ups, and higher skill ceiling plays

[halcyon timber]

You can have your own style and others can prefer theirs regardless of what points to what. I heavily dislike legion forward and many others do as well but here we are. "All into dance" isn't healthy for us and that's why we constantly get effed with. I don't give a flip about pushing for 1 shots and gimmicks.

I'd give anything for fat backstabs without requiring dance and eviscerates that mattered instead of gimmicks that only get toned down further. We get pushed into this every expansion and with good reason, it gets toned down. It's not good for any class or anyone's experience.

Doing eff all out of dance sucks, i'd give anything for MOP / Cata / WoD Subtlety. The burst donkey crap isn't fun especially when that is your only effective window in contributing anything. Can't cc long anymore and now they didn't think about duel and that further forces that too ( as long as they keep it in because that's probably on the X list too).

[jolly sierra]

ended at 1750 for today from 1500 xd

i need to climb faster

fought w a dh from my server in whisper

the guy was duelist geared, i mocked him after insulting me and he going 2-4

why always the dhs are the toxic ones

[waxen meteor]

when i play sub, dh is like first target..

not because of anything else, but it's really easy to cheese

if trinket... he is dead...

[potent pivot]

Ye I mean I’m just voicing my own opinion, but “all in on Dance” isn’t what’s unhealthy or what gets us messed with. Killing people in a Kidney is what gets sub nerfed.

[jolly sierra]

the guy wanted to go frost mage in 1st match

and i stayed almost all game rooted

[halcyon timber]

the point is we should be able to talent more into stuff like that if people want but it shouldn't be pushing all of us into the same direction I guess. Everything is tied to dance ex: LS + PF + DM etc there's nothing for us to customize jack crap.

[jolly sierra]

wat

[waxen meteor]

Frost mage is really hard to deal with now

so deadly against melee

if he/she kites well, damn

[jolly sierra]

yeah

dunno why ppl thinks is a good idea

[waxen meteor]

frost kills you if not getting trained as well

i am kinda struggle when pairing with a melee against frost

[jolly sierra]

me too

w this dh

ended by dropping smoke bomb for manuv against frost

worked well

cuz the other row was disarm, to control the dh and BM

[dull bridge]

yeah not gonna stop frost

it's all instants now

[faint vessel]

How do you control BM? i die to them most of the time

[dull bridge]

by killing them before they kill you, unironically

[faint vessel]

I die to their pets

Lol

[dull bridge]

stopping bm damage is pretty impossible ngl

mass roots and stuff really cuck them but best you can do is cc them so their barbed shot stacks fall off

[faint vessel]

Do i need like bis gear and a 85% mastery just to be able to go toe to toe with one?

[dull bridge]

are you assa

[faint vessel]

Sub

[copper maple]

Have people actually complained about blind sap before the announcement of cc nerfs btw? I feel like these days they're all coming out with "blind sap is op and never should've existed" even though it existed for like 20 years almost.

[tame nexus]

this season arena there was a plethora of rogue complaints, no?

[copper maple]

People mainly complain about rogues when the damage is overturned and they kill in a single stun consistently.

[tame nexus]

Do we still have 1 stun build?

Thought it was fixed like 3 months ago

[copper maple]

No clue what that build was or is.

[languid ravine]

you need to talent into Storm Bolt for the "1 stun build"

[harsh steppe]

what part of this will change after 10.1?

[tribal bay]

thats so shit lmao

symbols is already not that good

[tribal bay]

yup

[tribal bay]

its not designed like that anymore

it has some of the most consistent damage in the game

[tribal bay]

play the PvE spec it's exactly what you're describing thinking it doesn't exist when it does 😂 and it pumps

[harsh steppe]

i'm thinking since kidney is shorter, I'd take off eviscerate perhaps?

[harsh steppe]

any tips on how to improve greatly appreciated ❤️ go easy on me lol still very new to rogue
https://youtu.be/cO9QoSEpMHY

[languid ravine]

yep, the music is all wrong!!

[harsh steppe]

bruh you can't be dissin' crystal castles like that lol

[plucky sage]

That is a weird ass targeting highlight box

So enormous lol

But I'm not good enough to make much constructive criticism, but it looks like you used up a CB sectec onto a turtled hunter :/

Maybe you were too focused on pressing the right buttons that you didn't notice he had popped his biggest defensive.

[harsh steppe]

yah that cb hurt my soul lol
yep i'm still learning my rot trying to memorize it, i'll try to land them better, ty
the top target addon shows the enemy that is being the most targeted, helps a lot in solo shuffle where people will switch targets on a whim ugh
but i may be able to make it smaller i'll look into that ty

[bold bison]

what shits hardest on warriors, like what class makes warriors miserable

[copper maple]

Frost mage?

[potent pivot]

It’s still designed practically the exact same. The tuning is what’s off when it comes to that matter.

[bold bison]

good call, gonna level one just to grief warriors

my 2 favourite classes are Rogues and SPriests, I cannot deal with skill-free ungabunga Warriors facerolling to victory any longer

I no longer care about rating or wins, I only want to make Warriors ragequit

[copper maple]

I think the skill ceiling of warriors did go up in shadowlands when they got a bunch of extra team utility.
But that doesn't matter too much in an average soloq lobby.

[minor cape]

kidney will stay the same

from 5.1 sec to 5

in short everything stays the same

except blind sap

and kick

whats your opinions on 10.1 tier sets

subs is weird as shit

like whats the point of getting automatic symbols on shadow dance

[faint vessel]

How long will it normally take to farm lariat recipe

[minor cape]

so you can use your other symbols for energy and thats it?

🤔

i wonder if with that tier we can get like rotten automatically on dance or get energy for symbols

[surreal barn]

Kinda surprised they didn’t just bake in symbols to dance if they are willing to add this

[minor cape]

that would honestly kidna make sense

also the second part is so fucking stupid

we will get huge eviscerates thats cool but only on crit

so random af

[surreal barn]

Makes cold blood useful but I like to play tea so idk

[harsh steppe]

ty

[minor cape]

but you dont use cb on eviscerate

🤔🤔🤔

[surreal barn]

I don’t run sec tec so… it’s all I’d have to use it on lol

[potent pivot]

This doesn’t take into account orc racial I’m assuming

[surreal barn]

I have no idea what I’ll run 10.1 I finally got the hang of dark brew

[minor cape]

y

but like

we get overall 25% crit nerf right?

so basically our 4 set will make eviscerate hit worse than it does now on crits

🥹

[potent pivot]

I mean new season=new gear

But technically yes

[bold bison]

full mastery stack with no tier next season too

[potent pivot]

Big doubt

[dull bridge]

there's no point in not playing 2 set

2 tier pieces will likely have mastery on them

[potent pivot]

The 2p is also decent for more pressure

The 4p doesn’t seem quite as good but it may still be worth using imo

Obv need to test to be sure

[sharp sierra]

none of the rogue tier sets in s2 looks good :/

[copper maple]

I'm convinced there haven't been good looking class sets since legion. I don't like that in DF all sets are the same colour no matter the class

[harsh steppe]

ikr? when are we getting some fishnets & stiletto high heels & latex bodysuits, i'm not asking for much blizzard c'mon

[copper maple]

Maybe they cut the staff responsible for class sets so now it's one guy making them all 😀

[sharp sierra]

the outlaw tier set is horrible

like really bad

[copper maple]

But tbh, season 2 sets are more unique between classes imo

But for me even recycled tbc sets we got in legion are better. They have a lot more class flavour in them.

[sharp sierra]

tier sets for rogue in pvp are like in the bottom for sure though

horrible lol

S2 that is

[dull bridge]

how come every time i come here you're complaining about something

[copper maple]

Just now I realised that "looks good" didn't refer to visuals 😀

[harsh steppe]

fashion is the real endgame

[copper maple]

For sure

[harsh steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/hair-flip-starts-gif-26049465

[wise breach]

Wait what, people don't like the Shredder set?

I thought you were talking about the set bonuses

Oh, that was the case, okay

I wouldn't worry about the power level yet tbh, they're going to fiddle with numbers

[dull bridge]

yeah i don't think assa 4p is staying at 30 seconds lol

i wish outlaws numbers were higher but tier sets are usually around %5 DPS increase each bonus which more or less checks out

[scarlet shell]

the shredder set looks great

the effects do not.

but whatever, it aint like any other tier sets for the other classes look grand.

[bold bison]

...have you seen the priest set?

[harsh steppe]

cool af

[scarlet shell]

no i mean the 2pc 4pc

[bold bison]

ah set bonus

ye they all low key suck

[scarlet shell]

ofc the priest set looks great

i main both rogue and priest i am auto winning the transmog game

[naive plank]

Hello, guys. Any tips for returning players here? I haven't played in 3y and I heard now you can actually do endgame content optionally. Two questions: 1. Which spec to go? Sin or Sub? 2. Is it viable to get good enough gear if I don't dedicate time to high level M+ or mythic raids

[scarlet shell]

i just hope that the wings are not attached to the head, i dont really like the wings

i need it to be a cloak

[dusk spindle]

is the 4P for sin really that bad? I was looking around and I keep hearing its bad, for maybe Solo shuffle if there is bad comms but I think KB can used for once where its not completely Trash with sepsis

[bronze bronze]

Hey guys i see some high rated solo shuffle players rocking a dispatch build. How good is this?

Im taking about outlaw players btw

[dull bridge]

the wings are a bit excessive

venthyr vibes

[dull bridge]

idk who's saying it's bad, it's pretty fucking good

[dusk spindle]

just random rogue players I talk to at high Rating, seen a few people trash talk in ingame, so ofc I came here since you guys are pretty much 20x better than them and me

[dull bridge]

the bottom line is we can't know since tuning isn't complete, and i don't think it will stay at 30 seconds. but we have some nature damage options and even without that I've seen 100k envenom hits this patch

[dusk spindle]

is envenom nature? i always thought it was physical

but yea its nice to have options to use KB since its been nearly godawful since the launch of DF

same with sepsis

[wicked rampart]

I don't see it making either of those worth taking still tbh

I could see us going to back to DP/Amp over wound/x tho

[dull bridge]

kb isn't bad damage wise its just easily counterable and very telegraphed

and the damage is very backloaded

i don't mind sepsis though

[dusk spindle]

if they let us use KB with coldblood or sepsis it would be awesome

I would argue that KB with Sepsis is going to be better if the 4P doesnt get nerfed, since DM can just be used to get trinkets with coordinated plays then just using KB +sepsis after

[wicked rampart]

As long as KB and DTB are mutually exclusive I just don't think KB will see much play unless it was like giga overtuned

[scarlet shell]

i am still sticking with Dragon tempted

[dull bridge]

there isn't a world where you play kb while dtb exists right now

[dusk spindle]

That is true, I think KB+ sepsis has alot of conditions to be used so DTB would still be the norm to play

[gleaming pawn]

KB would need a big rework to ever be taken over DTB. It’s a dead talent and Blizzard knew what they were doing making them share a node

[scarlet shell]

applying extra poisons is the most overtuned crap i have ever heard in this game

[dull bridge]

you don't need to play kb sepsis just play sepsis lol

[spark egret]

what the fuck is up with iron wire? a 6 second silence??? not even on gcd, no cast time, just baked into your main damage ability. seriously, rogue balancing is just ridiculous. Not only that but it works in AOE too? you know locks have to actually cast shadowfury for a 2 second stop? you get literally triple that for free

[dusk spindle]

Idk it doesnt feel right to not play sepsis with it

[obsidian moon]

Its 3s and no1 plays the aoe one @spark egret

Xd

[dull bridge]

what the fuck

[dull bridge]

why? they have no synergy

[dusk spindle]

just aint feel right to me, its like doing something and then leaving it BARELY done

[gleaming pawn]

But they have nothing to do with each other

[dull bridge]

man sl season 3 set bonuses were cracked

[dusk spindle]

yea, i mean you dont have to play KB with sepsis it just seems like the play instead of the range one if u play KB since its both nature and 4P is nature

4P is nature buff*

how do i add PTR to my acc

[scarlet shell]

go to blizzard account website

@dusk spindle

[dusk spindle]

thanks

[jolly sierra]

4set is pretty good for next season

its possible it fixes our main issue w our burst being countered by survs, devokers or pallys

or dark iron REEEEEEEEEEEEE

[harsh steppe]

did you guys just spam m+ until you were able to get your titanic ring?

[dull bridge]

aint nobody got time for that

[potent pivot]

How are you getting that idea?

[jolly sierra]

according to tooltip it gives increased nature damage after deathmark fades

if it does count when is dispelled then compensates our wasted burst

[potent pivot]

I don’t think 40% nature dmg is going to be very much compensation at all tbh

Unless specifically running KB maybe

[bold bison]

Amp Poison Envenom with CB meta?

take Master Assassin, CB envenom vanish MfD envenom?

[waxen meteor]

30% crit on a envenom surely doesn’t worth a vanish

And it’s just a 150% dmg

[halcyon timber]

Deeper daggers isn’t great and a rotating finality buff isn’t sick either. Just modifiers making us look like we are doing something. Tracking 50 silly buffs with macabre , with dance , with symbols with xyz is just a donkey show to “1shot”. That’s not fun either. That fixes nothing my man. Shadow dance all in be damned, it isnt healthy and this is why this roller coaster stun bot happens to us every expansion. Just give us choices and leave it at that is all a lot of us want. I dig the rotten but def never a fan of cdr nonsense. Should have just out prep back in the class tree honestly since everyone makes a big deal about anything us rogues do. Dance should really just be a 45sec cd and call it there. Reduced cc is fine but a compensation to us set up classes def should be given too.

[plucky sage]

Interesting, so it's not necessarily your own target, just the one your fellow DPS has his sights on? I can see that being helpful to focus damage

[fierce laurel]

Why does kidney shot need a weapon if anything monks do doesn’t.

[jolly sierra]

still better than nothing, remember u have more nature dmg w rupture too now

[waxen meteor]

Monk stun is by foot

But I don’t see why kidney uses weapon.

Maybe back of a dagger

[jolly sierra]

i dont get why monks requieres weapons to do FoF

if they still have the non-fists weps in back when are doing it

just checked stats from the PTR tier

is not a copypaste from current tier

chest

[fierce laurel]

Any mastery verse?

[jolly sierra]

hands

[jolly sierra]

nope

helm

[fierce laurel]

Boots bracers ring, nothing?

[jolly sierra]

pants

[fierce laurel]

Can you link me

[jolly sierra]

hol up

shoulders

waist

boots

bracers

and cloak

make ur choice

[night olive]

Isn't this macro:
#showtooltip Shadowstep
/cleartarget
/cast [target=focus] Shadowstep
/targetlasttarget

just a worse version of:
/cast [@Focus] Shadowstep

Why the need to clear target and then target last target after

I'm asking cus the first one is in the pvp-faq macros btw

[fierce laurel]

So we can upgrade our bracers but lose mastery verse boots

[jolly sierra]

basically

[unborn portal]

start of DF had bug where it wouldnt work before

[pale storm]

What about if you put them in catalyst?

[unborn portal]

and the posted one was a work around

[jolly sierra]

that is the result w catalyst

every of those items i linked

[unborn portal]

[jolly sierra]

they are asking us to keep playing pvp? lol

[night olive]

Ah alright, thx

[narrow tangle]

is this normal

[jolly sierra]

XD

[potent pivot]

Keep in mind PTR stats are typically placeholder

But they may not be this time around who knows

[wise breach]

Don't mind those stats

Probably use all but helm

And we can use crafted bracers, belt, boots, ring, to get a lot of mastery

[dull bridge]

fat haste on 3 pieces

not good

[runic belfry]

got a question for my sub fellas here. I've been doing rogue pvp for about a month or so and I'm okay

have a basic understanding of my tool kit, CC prios and rotation. I just feel I struggle with vanish and post burst uptime.

1. any pointers on how I should be using vanish to reset, or the most opportune time to be using it in a fight? should I keep 1 at all time for an oh shit reset button or use them both to go for the burst kill?

2. should I be spending combo points for rupture / slice after bursting? full points or just enough for uptime. I feel like a wet noodle (I know sub has poor sustain) outside of my opener. in solo queue its easier cause its a little chaotic, but when running 2s I feel like I'm contributing very little

The guides and streamers haven't been as helpful answering those 2 specific questions, its more about positioning and play. I'm stumped on the most efficient use of my time outside of openers

[upper wing]

Why do y’all think of the s2 Outlaw tier for PvP?

[dull bridge]

2. when your dance is over you're not dealing any meaningful damage. depeneding on the comp you're playing you either run behind a pillar or spam shuriken storm and finishers to reset dance CD and get your Drs back.

3. again depending on what you're playing but it's a versatile spell. the major use obv defensively but in a pinch you can use it to sap a blind or finish a kill with subterfuge. it's a judgement call that you get better at the more you play

[sharp sierra]

I think if outlaw became the only viable option for pvp i would quit rogue for awhile.

On the plus side, i hit 1600 on my priest in all blues and tier shoulders.

[dull bridge]

it's literally % more damage and doesn't change your rotation at all (since all builds run greenskin). not very exciting imo

[runic belfry]

thanks, I appreciate the reply. #1 is something I hadn't considered. too use to being a DK and staying on the target lol

[unborn portal]

You can get a slice and dice but you’d prefer to have full combo points when you go for a reset so you can open with unavoidable kidney

I wouldn’t try giga hard using vanishes early on for resets and more for surviving

(Atleast while still learning / surviving)

[plucky sage]

1. If you're a returning player Assa might be an easier spec to pick up.
2. You can get all your gear entirely through PvP. If you want to minmax for perfect stats on gear then you'd need to do m+16s to craft 418 Vers/mastery gear ring but it's not that important

[unborn portal]

wdym you can get pmuch all 424/421 gear with drakebreaker offpieces

[plucky sage]

I mean like 418 signet and certain people opting for 418 lariat (I assume for the proc)

There I edited it to say ring

[harsh steppe]

yah im trynna get the m+16 ring atm & boy it's a grind lol

[plucky sage]

Honestly not worth all that effort, you won't notice a difference imo

(if it's a grind)

I already do plenty of PvE and rogue is my main, but fuck doing that shit on an alt

[harsh steppe]

ah ofc
if it's even slightly better i want it xD it's the chase
then i'll get the lariat idk if it's easier tho

[plucky sage]

It's the same. +16s for conc. Primal focus and craft it

[harsh steppe]

ah ok tyty

[plucky sage]

If you have the time then go for it.

Just personally I do all the content I want to do on main, and then I have alts where I just do what I can fit in. If I don't have time to raid or shuffle on alt and don't get a vault slot, I'm over it

[jolly sierra]

lost again against 2 mages and a dh

[smoky imp]

Is subtlety looking pretty good for 10.1 with the new set bonuses?

[jolly sierra]

dude 80% game freezed in site

[unborn portal]

I wonder what they do to orc for 10.1

[pale storm]

why can you still be hit by priest fear when you are in duel with non-priest on the enemy team?

[jolly sierra]

cuz is an aoe

[pale storm]

just weird, you get removed from their view, would think you are in a dif zone

[jolly sierra]

is the same

[pale storm]

yeah, just my way of thinking, I had assumed would be immune during duel

[jolly sierra]

nah, i can even fan of knifes there and u get the dmg

GOT A SUDDEN DC REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

-150 for free

tell blizzard to eat shit

[potent pivot]

[jolly sierra]

at this step i'll never climb back this hellhole

[uncut raptor]

what spec yall think is "easiest" in pvp? pve dude that wants the pvp xmog so gonna go for 1.8

[scenic blade]

Assassination is the most common

[night olive]

Haven't tried outlaw, but assa is easier imo as it's more sustained dmg which feels more natural especially if you're coming from pve

also easier if you're new to pvp in general

[jolly sierra]

think i wont play anymore for today

now i have a lag where i can see ppl but do nothing

[night olive]

not your day mate, sleep on it you'll do better tomorrow

[jolly sierra]

oh god

at this step i think i will delet my char

i just too much

how the fuck i eat a deserter for 15m after a sudden dc and now i go 1-5 cuz i was lagged like shit

[smoky imp]

How will deleting all your progress help you get your rank back though. You will get it back once your connection clears up

[jolly sierra]

i was at 2k at saturday

i dropped to 1850

then i dropped to 1600

then to 1500

then i raised to 1700

then i got a dc drop to 1500 again

now i have a shitty lag won nothing

won't u think this is fkn absurd?

[night olive]

that's the way it goes

keep your mental strong, focus on what you can change and you'll get it back np

[jolly sierra]

fuck the mental ill throw this fkn laptop through the window

[night olive]

you needed a new one anyways didn't you 😛

[jolly sierra]

god my fkn head is hurting again

[unborn portal]

You’re all shuffled out

[jolly sierra]

dunno if im cursed or something but everything went wrong now

is fkn absurd

[night olive]

that's variance, will happen to someone else some other game

get better pc/net if you can, else just gotta live with it 😛

I know the feeling, used to have the shittiest laptop forever

[jolly sierra]

im fixing the fkn cable

w mask tape

[night olive]

is that a rock next to your laptop lol

[jolly sierra]

yeah

a fkn quartz rock

[night olive]

don't smash your pc please x)

[jolly sierra]

to fixate the cable

[night olive]

so you don't lose connection?

[jolly sierra]

yeah

[sharp sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/ghetto-cartman-gif-13277993

[night olive]

ouch

[jolly sierra]

dunno how tf reached 2k

with this setup

[night olive]

pure skill

[sharp sierra]

Let me guess

You live in jersey

[jolly sierra]

im from EU

[sharp sierra]

Eww thats worse

Jk

[jolly sierra]

let me die

fkn shitty setup

[night olive]

So this full mastery build is the new sub thing or what?

[jolly sierra]

always has been

[night olive]

Not what the faq says

[jolly sierra]

don't check the faq

[night olive]

at least not explicitly

[jolly sierra]

check murlok.io

always that varies

[night olive]

even murlok.io doesn't explicitly say this is used by most

[jolly sierra]

yeah it says

in the stats

the average

[night olive]

Where are you looking? Not sure I see the same

[jolly sierra]

go to pvp guides then rogue then sub

check the page and see where says "stats"

or stat priority, cant recall

[night olive]

it just says the stat prio

with the faq and what ppl are building on the ladder it's not clear to me that what nahj is building(what I linked) is actually better than the others

but tbf drakebreaker stuff takes a long time to get cus it's timegated

[jolly sierra]

people is using 2 drakebreaker cuz wanna stack full mastery

in SL was similar

[night olive]

ye i see

I'll try it anyways

[waxen moon]

do you know where i can get the sub pvp talent tree? pikaboo build is out-dated

murlok.io?

https://murlok.io/character/eu/ravencrest/desíre/pvp#talents-class

[jolly sierra]

fixed the fucking problem with my cables

tested w monk some matches and no lag

at all

btw, the matches were good

4-2 at 1k8mmr
3-3 at 1k9 mmr

with 1k6 cr

[jolly sierra]

well im digging out hell, won 4-2 in a row

please guys pray for me

gotta rest for today

[night olive]

is blue vers/mastery ring worth over purple haste/vers or crit/vers for sub?

[jolly sierra]

hmmm

yes

murlok.io has some r1 using it in a decent amount

[night olive]

seems like it, thx

[jolly sierra]

even checked w rog and they have like 1.1k haste

so i dropped spare haste above that using the mastery ring too

the blue one

[night olive]

w rog?

[dull bridge]

haste is mostly wasted on sub

i play conq crit vers on sub and assa

it doesn't really matter

[jolly sierra]

yeah, in assa

in sub should be even better

haste lost a lot of priority after thistle tea

[smoky imp]

How is sub survivability?

[jolly sierra]

better than assa

[clever blaze]

getting ran into the ground in lobbies atm, took 2 weeks off and i've lost 180 rating today. is warr ever the target?

so many melee heavy games

[jaunty mirage]

it tells you exactly that

very solid resource for most arena related info

[jaunty mirage]

yeah war can be a target

swear sometimes it feels like you need to lose on purpose in the beginning

last few nights pretty much every time ive won the first 3 rounds someone leaves on the 4th

[clever blaze]

i fucked my mmr so badly i have to go 5 or 6 - 0 to get rating 😦 shoulda quit after the 2nd loss

[bold bison]

you have higher vers from not taking set bonus, soothing darkness and the option to drop veiltouched for vanish shield. if you play CDR you're even tankier

Sub def lives longer than Assa

I run vanish shield into melee lobbies because you know they're in the starting room saying 'ME RUN AT ROUGE'

[minor cape]

do you not run tier set?

i do

whats the default for sub im not sure anymore

[bold bison]

nah just go max mastery, drakebreaker daggers, crafted ring etc.

tier set is garbage

[minor cape]

but it does boost eviscerates if you dont play cdr

[harsh steppe]

2 tier set, 2 db

[minor cape]

guess im switching back to mastery

i mean it does makes sense for dark brew

[bold bison]

weigh it up vs. the amount of mastery you lose

like what's your mastery % in PvP?

[minor cape]

not sure rn

like 62

cant check

[bold bison]

I'm at 83

[minor cape]

holy hell

[bold bison]

so my Evis does 21% more

[minor cape]

didnt think you can get that high

but i can run 2 piece

and not loose mastery

🫡

my secret techs will be huge

i hate how we are getting a shit tier set again

in 10.1

"your shadow dance applies symbols of death" my man, they are macroed

[harsh steppe]

it's not that bad

[minor cape]

i mean yeah free symbols

maybe double rotten

and unlocks two full goes in a row

with double dance

so i guess 2 piece is good

[harsh steppe]

for sure

[jovial hearth]

if you have a choice between Leeching poison and Recuperator in PvP, what one would heal best for Outlaw?

[potent pivot]

Well recuperator provides healing even if you’re not doing dmg, as long as you have snd rolling

Leeching only provides healing when doing dmg really

So it just depends on when you think it’s more important to have that healing coming in

[half wigeon]

Recup feels better

[sharp sierra]

any guys know which conquest weapons are best to purchase as an outlaw rogue ?

[dull bridge]

murlok.io

[jovial hearth]

yea, that is my thought, but it fels like as outlaw, you are always swinging the swords and not going for resets. so I wonder if there is a break point in the return of leeching over recup

[half wigeon]

But if you roll the leech bone buff with leeching poison it can heal a decent amount

[vocal surge]

I wish they didn't nerf Leeching Poison

so it'd be really good w. Grand Melee for Outlaw

[minor cape]

@potent pivot

got a little confused here today

do people run 2 piece on sub right now?

or no set at all?

but no 4 set

🤔

[dull bridge]

you can go on murlok.io and see what people are running

[pale storm]

You preferably want all mastery/vers items, you can wear tier helm/chest for 2 piece, or run drakebreakers chest, 418 vers/mastery shoulders if oyu can upgrade otherwise glad

[bold bison]

5-1, then a 2-4, then a 3-3. is it time to stop queueing?

[jolly sierra]

if u lose 100 cr, yes

if not, keep going

[potent pivot]

Some people run 2P/4P, but most don’t run either afaik

[half wigeon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/935989994735169546/975231201776382002/trim.D3FAA879-BFAC-48CE-95BD-D3AA52F9B71E.mov

[jolly sierra]

2k4 setup

[half wigeon]

[jolly sierra]

after raging a little and playing calmer yesterday i checked prices for a desktop with optimal pieces

[bold bison]

good shout, another 5-1

[jolly sierra]

keep going

XD

it costs around $1000

[harsh steppe]

which of these is shadowy duel classified as?

[potent pivot]

Most likely Other Buffs, not sure

[potent pivot]

Yeah that’s the basic price for a beginner type setup

[harsh steppe]

ok ty

[jolly sierra]

rough road, but at least im almost in half RN

[potent pivot]

You’ll get there

[jolly sierra]

all good w monk alt

from 1k6 this reset

dunno but tbh i feel less stressed playing monk and ret compared to rogue

[graceful ravine]

sub stonks rise up!

[jolly sierra]

they still predicts ret and assa as S?

even after nerfs?

[harsh steppe]

probably cuz of cheap shot

[jolly sierra]

that is not for 10.1

[harsh steppe]

oh

well, my prediction for 10.1 after nerfs is that sub will be god mode, #1 class in the whole game, ez mode
iykyk

[dull bridge]

(prediction)

[surreal barn]

My favorite hobbie is dropping 400cr and then gaining it back the same day

[dusk spindle]

Wait im suppose to gain it all back?

[tawny kestrel]

does any1 know if creeping venom works with lethal dose

@chrome schooner maybe u do?

[potent pivot]

Theoretically it should

[unborn portal]

https://tenor.com/view/plink-wide-cat-plink-cat-meow-gif-27396868

[tawny kestrel]

should it

its not a weapon poison

and not a damage over time

[potent pivot]

Ah is it not nature dmg over time anymore

[tawny kestrel]

no its just a slow

[potent pivot]

Can’t get in game tooltip atm just wowhead

Then nah it shouldn’t

[jolly sierra]

it shouldn't it says damaging poisons

[graceful ravine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vVlrM5wjjk&ab_channel=DigitalGamingWoW can someone explain to me why pika used shuriken toss here instead of shadowstrike

[wicked rampart]

Prob playing danse?

[tawny kestrel]

should just backstab then

[chrome schooner]

I don't know actually

I think it doesn't

But since it used to be a damage over time effect, if they simply put its damage value to 0 and didn't change the flag, it could

Worth testing

[tawny kestrel]

how do u test a 2% damage increase

[night olive]

maybe simming works in this case?

although i'm not sure if the normal sim tools include pvp talents

[chrome schooner]

with a lot of patience

:p

but yea in practise it's not really testable 'cause of the spell dmg variance unless you really have a LOT of time

[night olive]

10.0.7

[potent pivot]

Good change

[potent pivot]

Huge

[night olive]

Should I be trying to kill a demos Demonic Tyrant or just cc it while it's up?

[tawny kestrel]

god bless

that shit is so annoying

[graceful ravine]

he hasnt shadowstriked yet at that point

in dance anyways

[graceful ravine]

never noticed this lol

[wicked rampart]

I think it only impacted default UI, and it seemed to be a lot better recently

Beginning of xpac it was super obnoxious tho

[minor cape]

whats up with that

sub didnt get any buffs and everyone was putting in b tier before

maybe tier lists are bullshit

[jolly sierra]

they are

[sharp sierra]

Imagine being good enough to finish .1% 😩

[graceful ravine]

last week of the season will be a good watch stream wise

most r1s wont even get r1s this time around due to smaller # population

[pale storm]

Praying for blizz to stealth inject +400 mmr so I’m not playing against all r1 teams at 2.2-2.3 mmr

[sharp sierra]

Wait, so i’m not playing pros at 1.2k? 😅😩

[jolly sierra]

u are playing w the boosted hardstuck gatekeepers

[graceful ravine]

like meeting xaryu and pika at 1500 lmao

and almost winning!

[pale storm]

Roastmaster carrying

[jolly sierra]

how deflated is 2s and 3s rn?

emmm

my idea or queues this week for SS are longer than usual

im about to stop for today xdd

look at this

[unborn portal]

requeue

after 30 mins

is what I do

[jolly sierra]

hmm

just got it

4-2

enough for today dude, those queue times are too long to endure for a day

also, the weather here is warm and wet, so is obnoxious to even breath lol

[sharp sierra]

What does this mean?

[jolly sierra]

people which got boosted and carried in shadowlands seasons are being smashed by glads and r1 because the rating is way too deflated

then they are tilted and thrashing u to clean their frustration

this season is abnormally deflated at 2s and 3s

[sharp sierra]

What does it mean by being deflated? I understand the term but can’t put it with ratings lol

[jolly sierra]

for example

if u are at 1k4 rn

then in SL should be at 1k8

[sharp sierra]

Okay, so what caused that?

[jolly sierra]

something in mmr, dunno

[sharp sierra]

Maybe rating not increasing fast enough

[jolly sierra]

ah i know what

most ppl is playing solo shuffle

so people in regular brackets are stuck with high end pvp players

just recalled

[sharp sierra]

😂

[jolly sierra]

get in zen mode and join solo shuffle

[bold bison]

My man needs to chill out with the S tier wtf

[tawny kestrel]

hes not wrong

[jolly sierra]

are u sure ret will still be s tier?

they reverted all pvp buffs

[bold bison]

It’s just a lot of S Tier classes

[tawny kestrel]

ah ye

maybe a bit many up there

[sharp sierra]

You think sub is better now?

[tawny kestrel]

was before any assa nerfs too

ppl just didnt play it

[sharp sierra]

I used to love sub back in BC and wotlk

[unborn portal]

I like sub more than assa ngl

assa being meta is boring

(To me)

[pale storm]

Yeah, sub for me is way more fun, has always been the most rogue like spec in my opinion

[bold bison]

your game made Xaryu's youtube channel 🙂

[graceful ravine]

the one where i carried him in my 6-0? 😄

[sharp sierra]

Same thing i said. Assa don’t feel like a rogue. Apply bleeds and keep them up. Rogues to me supposedly to be sealthy and behind their targets backstabbing.

Could be the “get off my lawn” in me though

[sharp sierra]

Thinking about leveling a second rogue to have a NR

NE*

Does sub also go for mastery?

Or crit

[unborn portal]

Mastery mastery mastery

[sharp sierra]

Thanks

[sharp sierra]

NE or dark iron rogue? If you have a bleed on you and shadowmeld does damage break it?

[night olive]

yes

[sharp sierra]

I really don’t see the OP in it then honestly. I’m guessing to hide and use it to take you out of combat?

Trying to decide between a NE or dark iron for second rogue.

[tribal badger]

you can use it to "immune" spells

and cc

thats its primary usage

[sharp sierra]

Oh okay, yeah that is pretty good. Dark iron racial is OP as shit too though

[wise breach]

NE is insane for assa as another way to sap blinds (rip) and get empowered garrotes

It's not quite as OP for sub

[sharp sierra]

Yeah. That’s true.

[waxen meteor]

well if you have so many S, that means no one is S haha

[harsh steppe]

void elf gives +10 to boobage & +10 to sexiness stats so i always go with void

https://tenor.com/view/think-about-it-use-your-brain-use-the-brain-think-brain-gif-7914082

[waxen meteor]

is the season ending?

queue so long today

[tribal bay]

lol

bro's tier lists are always a good laugh

[jolly sierra]

nope

season ends in may tho

[waxen meteor]

[dull bridge]

frost b tier is an absolute joke

[clever blaze]

any general tips for full melee lobbies? theres arms, dk/dh and ret in pretty much every lobby.

[faint vessel]

Can u shadowstep while rooted/trapped by hunter?

[minor cape]

When they dont have anytjing to immune it, do shiv with crippling poison and abuse your extended attack range. Use shadowstep to escape their bursts if needed. Gouge one of the melees and kill the other one. Dont forget to use your disarm. Take vanish shield if you find yourself dying a lot.

if arms warrior jumps into your dude in the opener you can immediately kidney him, do some dmg and right before kidney ends disarm him

to screw his opener

[clever blaze]

nice nice that's a good tip, tyvm

marked for death + kidney?

[minor cape]

well you can just shadow dance -> kidney

if you take

combo point talent

noone really plays marked for death on sub

rn

[clever blaze]

i'm sin so have mfd

[plucky sage]

Fem human has better boobs and ass

Thicc thighs

[minor cape]

oke thought you werr sub, on sin just pray

[minor cape]

my man speaking fax

the perfect amount of thickness

[plucky sage]

Indeed, I always have shorts for legs tmog

But looks like hyper enjoys skinny girls with no meat, all his chars are fem belf

[minor cape]

my only char is nelf

and im leveling a human lock

human kinda looks better in every mog 🤔 Not cause of the horny stuff, but almost like models look more high quality

or some shit

i know they arr same but resized

but still

[plucky sage]

Yeah I like human female for most mogs but there are some that I find look a bit better on nelf

[whole temple]

If a 1000 strangers were asked to vote on which spec is better for PVP, what would the rankings be? For rogue, of course

[minor cape]

assa -> sub -> outlaw

assa being the best

[whole temple]

What makes assa better than other specs? More dots and utility?

[worthy widget]

Sub too much setup and skill needed

[proven kayak]

It's the constant pressure with the anti heal and the bit of cc that can provide

[worthy widget]

Assa easier and puts CONSTANT pressure on enemy

[proven kayak]

I dont think sub needs that much of setup anymore

[worthy widget]

It does

[proven kayak]

Well yes consider the other classes

But if you play it long enough seems easy

[worthy widget]

What a weak argument

"If you already know how, its easy"

[proven kayak]

But dude kidney off healer with no trinket and spamming cs while you do echoing to on use trinket cold blood to secret tech is not that big of setup

[worthy widget]

Xd

U trollin right?

[whole temple]

I wanted to play sub for the aestetic of being a ninja (I fucking love ninjas) but the setup to do ONE burst is insane

[proven kayak]

No

Is it hard?

Well it is above certain rating iguess 2500+ but most people don't trade efficient their cd below that cr you always can abuse windows

[worthy widget]

Ank, just stop typing, xou sre emberassing yourseöf

[proven kayak]

But how

Ask the highest rogues in this discord they would tell you the same

It seems more complicated that actually is

[worthy widget]

Bro

Never ever teach or tell anyone what to do

[proven kayak]

I wont

[worthy widget]

Your points are superficial and terrible

[proven kayak]

Haha ok you do you

[worthy widget]

Even top rated rogues tell people assa is better and way easier

[proven kayak]

You trolling rn or you don't know non biased top rogues

As I said won't go further u do u

[bold bison]

You could argue that ER and SecTec and CB make Sub more complicated than it used to be, we didn’t have those buttons before

Plus complexity is relative to other classes

Finding Sub easy doesn’t mean it’s less complicated than other classes

Most classes just PvE their way up the ladder. Playing sub for me made unholy DK feel like a vacation, like the easiest thing I’ve ever done

You’ve got kidney coming off CD, who’s trinketed, who’s on stun DR, who’s on blind DR, do you have bomb or duel, do you have ER, CB and SecTec or is it a baby go, if so what are you willing to trade to bait CDs if you know you won’t do that much dmg

What other classes have that kind of mental flowchart?

[minor cape]

@whole temple if you find sub cool and fun just play it, its much more fun than assa and still pretty good

i myself find assas harder because i tried to play it like i play sub

🥹

if you are asking if sub is viable - it is

also assas is wet noodle gameplay

[minor cape]

demon hunter of course

[plucky sage]

Compare that to literally any other melee (except perhaps surv) it's a lot of awareness and planning. Warrior you can PvE and do just fine

[plucky sage]

The highest rogues in the discord have thousands of hours playing arena on rogue, so of course it's simple for them. For a beginner, it is far, far from simple. Most people when starting out barely even see arena frames, let alone tracking trinket CDs and defensives.

[plucky sage]

Same, I used to play UH DK and it's a walk in the park, just blow CDs and attack. Chains melee, grip healer for cleave pressure, gg

[proven kayak]

ye thats what i said tho

[sharp sierra]

its so sad that outlaw isnt any viable

its so much fun to play

[whole temple]

I agree, I mainly play Outlaw because they can use other weapons than just daggers, and that they can zoom around using hook

If only daggers could mog as 1 hand instead, then I'd play assa or sub instead

Style above anything else 😆

[proven kayak]

i respect that

[tawny kestrel]

ank is correct

[bold bison]

nothing in this game is particularly complicated

but you should be talking about it in relative terms

the hardest part about playing DH for example is watching DR timers to make sure you grief me with a fel eruption right before I'm going to kidney when i'm your team mate kekw

[tawny kestrel]

assuming people are talking about solo shuffle, it goes sub > assa > outlaw

for 3s assa is still best tho

[bold bison]

which classes does Sub have problems with in shuffle? I want to die queueing into Frost Mages, Demo Locks, Windwalkers and Arms Warriors but idk if that's just me being bad

any mage playing blink stun in fact

[tawny kestrel]

ye those classes are aids

but you have way less bad lobbies as sub than you do as assa

[bold bison]

yeah I feel that

was just curious, I queued into Arms WW Fire Mage and it felt especially horrible

[cedar hill]

Sup guys, is it proper channel to recruit rog for rbg group ?

[scarlet shell]

i am enjoying "the rotten"

love me some free crit

[fierce stump]

I can’t decide whether I like sin or sub better. Both are vers -> mastery right? So I can stat that way and play both?

[plucky sage]

I don't see why not unless there's a rule against it. Or perhaps #recruitment but that seems to be guild recruitment

[plucky sage]

Yep

[fierce stump]

Thanks! What do most people seem to like? I’m seeing a lot of arguements for both

[harsh steppe]

i like sub, just got demolished by subs in sl when i started playing wow a while back & always liked them since lol, if you can't beat em join em i suppose aha

[bold bison]

Sub is better for Solo, but the skillcap is significantly higher

[fierce stump]

I’ve always hated that kyrian ability for sin

But that might be cause I’m bad

[bold bison]

you can play without it, I believe the Rotten build plays with 7cp instead of ER

but tbh if you go with Dark Brew build the use of Echoing Reprimand is pretty scripted, you kidney > dance > evis > ER > SecTec and you always hit your animacharged point that way

the other 2 animacharged CPs can just be used randomly if you land on them, it's not gamebreaking

[scarlet shell]

dark brew is fun bc its an excuse to play secret technique

[bold bison]

do you play the Rotten build without SecTec?

[scarlet shell]

i copied the rotten build from #pvp-faq

[bold bison]

oh interesting

I didn't realise that build didn't take SecTec, I've seen other Rotten builds without gloomblade that take SecTec

[scarlet shell]

i like both gloomblades and backstab

and i am willing to use either

when i used shuriken storm for the first time, my disappointment was immeasurable

[fierce stump]

What makes sub more difficult than sin is it more jumping in and out with CC than damage pressure?

I’m new to pvp

[scarlet shell]

i thought it was gonna be reaper overwatch thing but it casts shurikens 4 times lol

[fierce stump]

So pardon my noobness lol

[harsh steppe]

i can never get a full kidney is that normal?

[bold bison]

depends, what's preventing you from getting the full kidney?

[harsh steppe]

idk i'm doing cheap shot > ss > kidney > rest of rotation

[bold bison]

oh

personally I don't like cheap shot into kidney

[harsh steppe]

that's what i was told to do here a while back

[bold bison]

I see some people do that as an opener

not a fan

[harsh steppe]

yah me neither i can never do my full burst

[bold bison]

are you playing Dark Brew?

[harsh steppe]

yes

[bold bison]

okay, you have 2 goes then - a cheap shot go, and a kidney go

use kidney on kill target if you can bomb/duel/blind healer for example

use cheap go if you need to kidney healer for CC

[harsh steppe]

ahhh ok i'd rather focus on the kidney open for now then since i'm still learning
so what is that script?

[bold bison]

Cheap shot go: dance > cheap > symbols > evis > echoing reprimand > cheap shot > turn to the side to prevent ShT giving you another combo point > CB+secret technique > cheap shot

Kidney go: get 5cp > kidney > dance > symbols > evis > ER > CB+Secret Technique > cheapshot

obviously the problem with sub is that you can't really be scripted, but those are far more optimal uses of your buttons than using cheap into kidney

[harsh steppe]

how do i get that first 5 cp tho for the kidney go

[bold bison]

depends

if you get a sap you can just cheap both DPS and do a cheap go

kidney healer off the Sap

you can sap healer, cheap a DPS, shadowstirke x 2 into kidney on kill target

you have a lot of options

[harsh steppe]

ahhh ok ty! i'll write these down and experiment

[copper maple]

Is feral tankier than rogue?

[tender ferry]

Sin rogue yes, sub rogue no

Sub can be one of the hardest to kill melee in the game if not the hardest

Double vanish + vanish shield + soothing darkness is a deceptive amount of heals

[copper maple]

I feel like playing something more durable. Maybe it's time to embrace the zug zug.

[harsh steppe]

i'm pretty sure outlaw gonna be really good in 10.1 if they buff rogue's surv just a tad bit

[tribal badger]

laws pretty tanky also but thats basically all its got going for it rn

lowest cd on vanish of the specs, plays with soothing and the most access energy to spend on feint/vial

plus cdr on feint/evasion

and like 20% more stam

[languid ravine]

Outlaw has an answer for everything

but no win condition XD

it is gonna stay shit most likely

[copper maple]

I started leveling as outlaw and I thought I just doesn't do any damage.

[tribal badger]

ur win condition is do a stable 25k dps and pray ur partner kills the baddy while u cc the healer

[copper maple]

And when I switched to assa, I confirmed it for myself

[tribal badger]

i mean laws damage in pve is fine

u could even argue its overall damage in pvp is fine

it just has literally no burst

so basically no win con

ur win con is grind someone down to 50% through raw pve damage then kidney/blind/sap healer while continuing to grind at them and praying ur partner helps u finish them off

[languid ravine]

is there even one other spec that deals only direct damage with 0 burst?

[copper maple]

I used to be a sub enjoyer, but got kinda tired of it. It might be a bit more fun if they remove orc racial and the cc reduction set bonus. With those doing stun locks isn't fun.

[languid ravine]

and then it is barely mediocre sustain during all that

[tribal badger]

i mean the sustain is ok im usually sustaining 25k+ ST damage in soloq not using BF at all

if u use BF u actually compete on the meters but its all pad and annoying to cancelaura when ur doing actual setups

but like, you are basically never setting up on someone at max hp and killing them

unless ur partner is the one killing them

most of the games I win because I setup a kidney bomb or blind sap with the kill target already sub 50% hp

[copper maple]

also roll the bones isn't fun most of the time

[tribal badger]

honestly my favorite games are the games I get trained as law and just do my sustain damage to 1 dude while dragging him away from his healer all game and rotating through defensives

can usually get them in a bad position and end the game with a kidney on the enemy healer

[copper maple]

imagine training outlaw

[tribal badger]

and law is pretty damn tanky

[scarlet shell]

i always saw Outlaw as an amalgam of rogue and warrior

rogue's burst shaved off a little and some of warrior's tankiness

give outlaw some parry

idk

[proven kayak]

Tbf all rogue specs are fun

[tribal badger]

bring back dance burst 🥹

alternatively make it so ur not giving up like 6% dps worth of talents to get 1:30 blind

[languid ravine]

give outlaw Rupture bleed on BTE and deadly poison

done

[scarlet shell]

i was originally excited for "Riposte" to give us parry

[languid ravine]

wait then you arent using wound poison just kidding

[scarlet shell]

then changed to gauche lmao

[chrome schooner]

5%

[tribal badger]

pvp talent

gives u 1% stam per 3 seconds in combat

stacking up

[chrome schooner]

No

You don't

[scarlet shell]

YES

where did enduring brawler go

[chrome schooner]

It USED to be like that in SL

[scarlet shell]

its useless now screw that

[chrome schooner]

In DF they removed the stamina part from Enduring Brawler

[tribal badger]

oh right they removed all the stam

[chrome schooner]

It's now replaced by the 5% in the tree

[tribal badger]

after nerfing it to half in s4

[scarlet shell]

they removed the stam in DF

[chrome schooner]

In SL it was 20%, was nerfed to 15%, and in DF it was removed to be a 5% in the tree

[tribal badger]

doesnt really feel like law needs it but it would make it so law cant even die in a stun

laws already pretty damn hard to ever kill outside a stun

idk if they need to lean further into law being tanky to make it good in pvp tho

nobody likes pure dampener specs

just gib some damage

😐

[scarlet shell]

i felt like in SL i was actually toe to toe with my enemy

i actually HAD a fighting chance

now in DF i feel like a worse sub rogue

this ambush find weakness outlaw rogue build i cobbled together looks like an Aldi brand sub rogue

[tribal badger]

in SL s3/s4 we just did big dolly dam

st u were always killing the dude and healer was burning mana beating ur damage

if u could BF cleave u were destroying the poor healer

with shadowdust kyrian in s4 u had like 1m blind cd

s4 law was pretty wild

[unborn portal]

I got top 100 US in 2's playing s4 outlaw

because bracket was DEAD