pvp

[minor cape]

why would you

[dense thorn]

first dance

[minor cape]

run tea

on sub

also depends

[dense thorn]

im mixing two builds

but you run symbols

and dance

= max cp

[plucky sage]

Don't PS in dance

[dense thorn]

yh sorry you dont ps in dance

[minor cape]

w shadowblades you can go like dance shadowstrike secret tech shadowstrike evis

[dense thorn]

wouldnt you go

dance, symbols, strike, kidney

for max kidney

[minor cape]

i usually do a cheapshot thing to save kidney for healer

[dense thorn]

i think thats bad

you kidney the go youre killing

cant get the ST go without max kidney

[minor cape]

but you can stunlock with a cheapshot

you cam

[dense thorn]

but then it gives you weird cp

youd just blind the healer

[minor cape]

you have to go like cheap - buffs - strike - st - cheap - strike

and then you stunlock

but i suppose you also lose a gcd

[dense thorn]

sounds bad to me

for a standard setup

i prefer full kidney

[minor cape]

hm

i think you are right

tbh

cause then you can also cheap for two more seconds

also about full kidney

you still lose a gcd

on stun

[sharp sierra]

fists of fury is so cancer

[dense thorn]

why?

[minor cape]

cause you dance kidney

anyway

so in my opener you have

one gcd in dance wasted on stun

in dance

and in yours too

[dense thorn]

ok but hear me out regardless

youre using your kidney on a healer

in this theory

so youre having to yeet over to him

if hes not on top of you

to kidney

then back again

to cheap

[minor cape]

i blind first

then you use second dance

kidney

and kill the guy

prolly wrong

[dense thorn]

this your first go?

[minor cape]

should just sap

[dense thorn]

if first go.. sap

then kidney kill

blind healer

or whoever

[minor cape]

i suck at blind - sap

[dense thorn]

only one way to get better at it

[minor cape]

fax

[dense thorn]

i honestly have to be logged in to tell you what my rotation is on sub

because i dont remember names half the time

i just muscle memory the buttons

[minor cape]

mind going into a call

later

[dense thorn]

im working

[minor cape]

in the evening

me too rn

[dense thorn]

if im about sure

sorry im 'working'

also not sure if you just didnt type

but youre CB- ST

everytime right?

[minor cape]

yeah ofc

[dense thorn]

im too tired though to filter pve out from pvp for sub

as ive been playing only sin in pvp

and sub in pve lol

so builds are merged

[minor cape]

also why does everyone play dark brew now?

[dense thorn]

does dam

[minor cape]

maybe im doing smth wrong

but i do more w rotten build

[dense thorn]

there are 2 builds

[minor cape]

cause more goes

[dense thorn]

dark brew

or rotten

rotten is bursty

dark brew is more sustained-y

[minor cape]

when do i take brew?

[dense thorn]

when you want to

[minor cape]

how do i even know if game is going to be longer than expected

[dense thorn]

just play both and see what you prefer over time

[minor cape]

if it's like unholy with warrior type of shit i go brew right?

[dense thorn]

no idea

i play one build

and dont change

[minor cape]

i see

[dense thorn]

until it stops working

then i annoy people in here

to why

[minor cape]

well thats what im doing xd

[dense thorn]

i think with builds it sjust personal preference though

[minor cape]

i reached an okay mmr and now im down to 1500 cause rotten secret tech stopped working

😢

[dense thorn]

it wont stop working

people just use defensives on the goes

which is why sub isnt as good as sin

[minor cape]

isnt that the strat

get defensive

then duel/cc healer/bomb

on second go

[dense thorn]

i mean

as you go up in cr.. people will be able to hit keys better

[minor cape]

true

maybe i just suck and that's it xd

[dense thorn]

subs damage is just super predicatable

so the setups need to be good

and get better the higher you go up

same with everything its just for instance you open as sub.. higher cr they just disarm you or step away or something

its so easy to dodge

whereas in lower cr they hit every defensive avaibale

and then die next go

[minor cape]

and what is higher cr

my goal is 1800 which i almost got

[dense thorn]

that is relative

[minor cape]

:((

[dense thorn]

tbh i dont know

to me high would be like 3,000

but thats beause im seeing as it... thats r1

so therefore its high

[minor cape]

makes sense

[sharp sierra]

these ss queues are just stupid

30 mins to go 3/3

[dense thorn]

in terms of when do people hit keys.. like 1.8-2k? i dont know, its weird.. solo shuffle 2.1k lobbies felt only marginally harder than my 1.8k lobbies

so who knows

[dense thorn]

i was getting 5 min queues earlier this morning

prob everyone queuing before work lol

whats a good goal for the rest of the season btw? I wanted 1.8k, i got that fairly easily and i was joking to get 2.4k and legend but honestly i need a realistic goal. Like 2.1k is the next cutoff right? 2.1k solo, 1.8k 2s and 1.8k 3s would be a good season 1 ever pvping?

[minor cape]

i think 1.8 2s or 3s is much harder tbh

[sharp sierra]

2.1 is my goal but i cant reach it

always getting up to 1950 and dropping to 1800

and i lost again

0 rounds 2nd queue

i give up entirely

fuck this shit

dhs and wars running in training the entire game and my healer goes in melee

[gusty grotto]

do we mostly use vanish as defensive?

[sharp sierra]

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[minor cape]

your mmr is prolly same rn?

after this

as rating

[minor cape]

depends

i find myself using vanishes pretty offensively on sub because of cdr, shield and healing on vanish

[tawny kestrel]

thats what happens when ur mmr is piss low compared to ur cr mate

[sharp sierra]

[graceful ravine]

anyone else see headlines like this and panic

lol this is after cdew's complaint

[rose iris]

anyoen got WA that tracks ambush proc??

[potent pivot]

I’m sure you can find one if you search on wago.io

[plucky sage]

this is mine

I took afenaar

and modified it to my liking

plays a sound when it pops up

[rose iris]

ty alot this is exactly what i looked for

[rose iris]

Yeah ofc i searched there first but didnt find any i liked

[plucky sage]

Np

[fierce laurel]

I’m sub and I panic.

[sharp sierra]

whats up with queues showing 8-10 mins then proceed to be 30+

[gusty grotto]

how bad of a decision is to macro smoke bomb on kidney?

for very low cr games

till i learn how to use it

[boreal basin]

playing with an ele sham in 2s vs unholy dk and resto druid a lot and keep losing

any ideas on what win con would be?

[rose iris]

Do u use slice n dice macro also?

[winged pike]

ur playing outlaw ele?

[boreal basin]

nono playing assas ele

[jolly sierra]

YES I AM

[waxen meteor]

not sure if rogue/ele is super good

[winged pike]

dont recommend playing with ele in 2s

i dont even have a recommendation cuz usually they will just outplay you, can try to do an opener on dk, send a stormkeeper on ele and try to get ibf with kidney bomb and blind on resto

disarm the ibf and try to force healer trinket on blind then all in healer next go?

cant really hex anything

[waxen meteor]

DK doesn't take kidney first go without trinket

and it's quite good anti caster dmg even after nerf

[spark egret]

I have a hot take

Glad mount should be available through shuffle

Since 3s are now basically dead and everyone is queuing solo

Needs to be more of a reward for solo

Beyond a title at 2400 and the set at 1800

[boreal basin]

Its his only pvp geared char rn, also has a warrior

but arms assa feels scary if we run into double cleave

[rose iris]

man outlaw pvp must be the hardest shti ever lul

[waxen meteor]

I think all of arm/sin/ele are better with healer haha

it's not like sub can do 2 dps quite easily

[graceful ravine]

when i 1 shot ppl in the opener i get toxic whispers

my class is OP etc

na

[graceful ravine]

mounts given at 2700 to shufflers imo

adjusted for inflation

[waxen meteor]

don't be harsh on us, 2700 is hard

[graceful ravine]

they should expand r1s to 0.5%

[potent pivot]

And runs alts to help their friends sneak in

I kinda think r1 should be team based like back in the day tbh, get rid of all these alts

Yeah it’s gotten a little ridiculous

I can understand if you go for it on an alt of a diff class

But 3+ of the same is just weird

Yeah gotta turn bnet to Offline

Tbc classic?

I can only imagine

[sharp sierra]

What are some good or mandatory pvp addons?

[potent pivot]

Gladius, BigDebuffs

[sharp sierra]

how do dks even reveal you out of stealth

[potent pivot]

Omnibar

OmniCD

[sharp sierra]

Thank you.

[potent pivot]

WeakAuras can be very useful

[sharp sierra]

Yeah i have auras, need to figure out how to set it up and use it. I’ll have to watch a video on it.

[potent pivot]

Diminish is good to show you and your team mate’s DRs

[potent pivot]

You can just import WAs from wago.io

[sharp sierra]

Definitely need something to make targets debuffs and all that a little bigger and show a timer

[potent pivot]

Mes has a couple public WA packs

[jolly sierra]

abomination

[sharp sierra]

Okay cool, i’ll check that out too.

[potent pivot]

Yeah there’s guides on YT too

For WeakAuras

And most addons

[sharp sierra]

Yeah seems like the blizz UI is a little bugged. Can barely see countdown timer, have target of target enabled and it doesn’t even show. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[potent pivot]

Yeah it’s a bit janky since they updated it

[fierce laurel]

I noticed target or target doesn’t show you when you target yourself anymore. Not sure when they did that

[grizzled walrus]

30k dps single target without any cds

when is assa getting nerfed

jfc lol

[sharp sierra]

yo team, am i playing outlaw wrong in shuffle? General philosophy/strat: /focus healer from gates open>> sap healer to start, go on a dps and hopefully get healer trinket, focus kidney healer >> focus gouge >> focus blind. toggling stuns on targets to not DR terribly

35 mins and someone declined the queue...

[waxen meteor]

30k dps without using CD on single target only?

[clear temple]

Is there any wa/plater mod that diable nameplates of demo pets / dk in PvP. They just overwhelm me but i dont want to disable small pets in general.

[plucky sage]

well, you should rather blind healer off the sap. If he sits that whole chain, either his DPS is dead or you'll get high value CDs off it. If he trinkets, since you should be specced into Blinding Powder, then your next blind will be back up before his trinket. And you can save KS for kill target.

If you KS the healer and don't blind, then firstly you have to step or grapple to healer to get the KS, losing dance or just general uptime on kill target

and secondly your blind will be off cd that whole time rather than ticking down for a 2nd go. You can always KS the healer if he trinkets blind too. Which again, means you'll have blind before he has trinket for next go.

[sharp sierra]

rgr

thanks

[fierce laurel]

If you don’t get the sap- blind first gcd and sap off it.

[fiery relic]

ToD can only be used on targets that are almost dead. That's almost entirely overkill damage

Also my guy maybe you should take a break from wow? You've been raging pretty hard in here for like the last 5 hours

[ember anchor]

how the fuck is mortal strike HITTING for 108k?

[fierce laurel]

Dang that’s like a whole sec tec coldblood.

[chrome schooner]

Rookie numbers

I got hit by a 257k crit in a regular 3v3 match the other day, through Ironbark. I even kept a screenshot of that somewhere since it was so amazing

[jolly sierra]

once a pyre killed me for 220k in a global

[waxen meteor]

fuck those ties are miserable in solo

when both teams get 1 kill in second or sth, both team loses

nobody gets a win

just had another tie

[vocal surge]

F

[atomic adder]

Uhhh wtf….

[chrome schooner]

Is this a known bug that the items from this week's vault have the default ilvl and not the elite one or whatever rank you had ?

[jolly sierra]

i got 2 pieces without rank ilvl and 1 with rank

apparently is a bug

[potent pivot]

Yeah

[spark egret]

HUHHHHH

this is not ethical

god this mount

is sick

[tight veldt]

try moving closer to the router

[uneven grove]

someone teach me how to play sub fast

i cba playing assa anymore

[lucid lark]

y

[uneven grove]

i installed wotlk just out of curiousity, how assa could be if they had decent class designers still

the mutilate sound is so bis, and hits hard

[lucid lark]

ye true

but that meta was also frustrating as shit iirc

like games would go on for so long

[uneven grove]

idk if less frustrating than BFA damp meta 😄

[fierce laurel]

Wotlk pre parch sin was so much fun.

A kidney shot followed by 3 mutes killed anyone who wasn’t wearing a shield.

[lucid lark]

anecdotally, I haven't had the issue with KUI

[fierce laurel]

Mine doesn’t.

I think I use tiny plates.

[graceful ravine]

id be upset if i dont get glad by end of season

with current state of rogue

[tight veldt]

this 100%. was in one of my 1800 push lobbies and got zugzug'd by Ret, Arms, Fury for 6 rounds. Nothing i could do after being forced into evasion in the first go

Exactly... but like... outside of Stech it just noodle slaps

Sub = cc all game cuz you can survive and hope ur teammate does damage

sin = oogabooga bleed, and hope they dont kill you

[bold bison]

I've tanked 350 rating today

I can't deal with this game

[tight veldt]

i really dont understand how to play sin into zugzug lobbies. Like what do i do

[bold bison]

what's the point in Assa being OP if no healer is capable of keeping you up through Warrior dmg

or WW dmg

outside of CDs btw

just rot

ye I feel so OP

running around trying to kite and pressing feint

shadowstepping every charge and living on 35% HP for 30 seconds

[potent pivot]

Have you tried running Emblem?

[tight veldt]

yes, i am

100k doesnt save me from zug

[bold bison]

every lobby is zug, I was trying to play AP build, but that requires time to rot a couple of targets and no game goes to my 2nd deathmark

I was 1900 with a really nice win ratio, I've played 160 rounds this week and I'm back at 1550

[tight veldt]

def trying to stay positive but fuck these lobbies just... idk what to do

[bold bison]

same mate same

I got glad in shadowlands S1 playing with pugs

but idk how to a) live and b) impact the game enough to overcome these ELO hell lobbies

[waxen meteor]

My suggestion for melee blend

Just go straight to healer

In some lobbie if you don’t have a very good teammate burst with your pace of if some goes get destroyed by other side and game lasts too long, we run out of cd, it will be really hard

[waxen meteor]

Try above

The initial 3+6 cc on healer is crucial. And it potentially helps you to split the battleground

[bold bison]

I sap into blind every game, and if I don't get the sap I blind and commit the vanish to get the sap

[waxen meteor]

Not needed for vanish for sap in most cases

When kill melee doesn’t work, go straight on healers, try to kill healer

[warm lance]

You just have to out zug them and rotatr your CC on them

Your dmg is stupid strong aswell so you can zug the shit outta them

Dont get stuck in the melee blender opener either. If you pop cds step to your healer and just run. Hope they get peeled by your team and after one of them comes around the corner stun them and dps the shit outta them.

[tight veldt]

4 melee lobbies in a row where i get trianed for 6 rounds. its so fun

[jolly sierra]

fkn 358k healer is blaming me for die constantly w ret

against assa/dk/bm

[willow garden]

It is hard out there for a rogue. Especially dk and dh lobbies lol

[atomic adder]

I swear DH is still by far the most difficult thing for me. Give me ANyTHiNG but DH please

Been having fun in 3s though with a DK. I just sit the healer and then the DK goes burst burst and it’s a win

[waxen meteor]

Tbh I think DH is a lot easier than war now

[jolly sierra]

the hardest are wizard lobbies tho

[waxen meteor]

And most DH have very low vers, they are very killable

Mage?

Mage is also your best teammates

[jolly sierra]

mage/ele/evoker

[waxen meteor]

So it’s not bad lobby

They zug zug with no brain they die

[jolly sierra]

the other which i suffer a lot are ww/warr/dk lobbies

[waxen meteor]

Any melee blend is hard

Survival sometimes is also damn annoying

[jolly sierra]

for example w my ret i suffered a lot against assa cuz i was forced to use bubble earlier w pally

survival is literal our counter

[waxen meteor]

In general sin likes to see ret in melee blend

Because ret somehow attracts more attack

[jolly sierra]

yep

i got fucked and blamed by comps

like i have something else than spamming word of glory and after abstainance

[fierce laurel]

My favourite thing to see in ss as sub is sin.

They trinket the first cs or die.

[lost hull]

Which spec is doing better in pvp rn? Is it diff for arenas and rbgs?
Or is it pretty even and entirely subjective?

[potent pivot]

In arenas sin is really powerful, but less tanky. Sub is decent and more tanky

Outlaw feels a little weak but also has good survivability

[tight veldt]

Do you enjoy damage? Play Sin.
Do you enjoy living? Play Sub.

Do you enjoy clunky? Outlaw.

[sharp sierra]

Need to make a classic 19 or 29 rogue twink 😂

They were fun back in the day. Cheap shot > ambush > backstab > dead

[lost hull]

Ty ty

[sharp sierra]

Are there different rewards for each spec tor rogue mage tower?

[warm lance]

Its just the class armor

[vocal surge]

tfw you get caught in a cc chain

that you trinket a disarm

and finish off the enemy team

[graceful ravine]

Where do I go for mage tower

[sharp sierra]

Not sure, whenever i feel like trying it i was just going to see how to get there from google.

Anytime i go back to places i missed from when i quit MOP-DF i just type in google how do i get to X from orgrimmar

[warm lance]

Its like the island near Suramar

Broken Shore, the camp in there

[twin burrow]

I AM MY SCARS

[plucky sage]

Legion Dalaran, fly to broken isles

[tight veldt]

Interesting no rogue in AWC?

kekw

[minor cape]

ive watched one day

saw one sub rog

he won one round then lost 3

felt sadge

🥹

[tight veldt]

but rogues OP, gotta nerf

[minor cape]

i mean sins were in every game

in the ones i watched

[past tapir]

question when running dragon tempered blades, wound poison over amplifying? dont see anyone taking, is it just that weak compared to its competition?

[tight veldt]

always

[sharp sierra]

What order do you think is best to get honor/conquest gear in? Also trying to get drake waist and wrist but the boots are the only things that keep popping up in world quests 😩

[jolly sierra]

think im going assa for weekend xdd

in shuffle lobbies

fkn ret is useless

[minor cape]

if you dont fuck up and mix in drakebreakers and crafted youll have enough for all you need

just make sure to buy right stuff

and not like i did 🥹

[jolly sierra]

that emoji

i hate that emoji

[sharp sierra]

Define “right stuff” only second week back since wotlk retail lol

[past tapir]

you can get 2 crafted

i would avoid getting those conq

save for last basically

want conq/421 drake weapons huge prio

set super huge prio

[sharp sierra]

So far the only thing i did do was just buy all the green pvp gear because BG’s were a nightmare with just regular DF random gear.

[minor cape]

which spec

[sharp sierra]

Trying out assa right now

Going to try and stick with it

[minor cape]

infurious head and boots - crafted

so dont buy boots and head

and then get as much mastery as you can

[sharp sierra]

Yeah boots right now are drakebreaker, but that’s just because i got them from doing a world quest.

[minor cape]

basically get a piece with mastery from conquest

if no mastery

[sharp sierra]

With honor i just bought a dagger and trinket.

[minor cape]

then drakebreaker

[sharp sierra]

Okay, thanks

[minor cape]

wait a sec

if other assas dudes can confirm

you need full mastery right?

[tight veldt]

yes

[minor cape]

also if you are in stage of honor gear dont worry too much

honor is infinite

conquest is capped!

[sharp sierra]

So always go for conquest first every week. Or what gives the most of it.

[fierce laurel]

The conquest pieces you will 100% use are:
MH, Ring, 2 trinkets, gloves, cloak.

All else could be tier, crafted, or drake.

[sharp sierra]

Yeah i want the drakebreaker shiv, need to see it when it shows up in the world.

I was going to make molten daggers but i guess don’t do that now

[minor cape]

you can buy it for bloody tokens

in pvp room

[sharp sierra]

Yeah, somehow i have 0

[minor cape]

go get the quests

[raven cliff]

I was gonna say, it's like 500 Bloody Tokens, which is like two War Crates. Then do the Sparks weekly and upgrade it

[minor cape]

in valdraken

[sharp sierra]

Sparks are the sparks of integrity?

[past tapir]

you will 100% use conquest set pieces because that is the best you can get to convert to tier, unless you want garbo 385/421 tier

[sharp sierra]

And then for pvp just stack mastery and vers

[raven cliff]

You'll want to do this one for the Trophy of Strife, which is the currency you use to upgrade the Drakebreaker pieces

[sharp sierra]

Thanks, yeah i saw them and was wondering where to get them.

[tawny kestrel]

np

[jolly sierra]

im done w ret i'll go ww later

[thick dagger]

Have they fixed it where you can buy stuff with trophy of strife again ?

[jolly sierra]

at least will die slower

[thick dagger]

Oh they just changed it no more buying it from Dragon lady

Thanks for the heads up

[warm lance]

[twin burrow]

my brothers in arms, my rogue brethren. may your weekend be filled with good lobs and may your losses be graceful but your wins plentiful

[uneven grove]

guys does sub need some burst macro?

stacking up stuff?

i am trying to setup my binds and shit, i really have no clue yet

also shadow dance and subterfurge basically different cus u use shadowstrike instead of backstab?

[steep tree]

4set vs ilvl for assa

?

[uneven grove]

4set is broken

[steep tree]

but i die super quick it feels like

i do broken dps but if i face like a monk i get oneshot

[uneven grove]

evasion 1st global u see anything from monk

he dies in 2nd kidney anyway

[steep tree]

thats true

[sharp sierra]

I feel left out being on lightnings blade lol, feel like everyone is on illidan or area 52

[twin burrow]

what server are u on

[sharp sierra]

Lightnings blade

Horde

[twin burrow]

omg

[sharp sierra]

Back in vanilla the meme used to be the CEO played a mage.

[twin burrow]

that is GOOD quality fucking DANK meme

[sharp sierra]

Everyone else would gets nerfs here and there, mages only got stronger lol

[livid pine]

Noob question bois, do you exang > Deathmark in pvp as well or the other way around?

[tight veldt]

yes

[livid pine]

Awesome, I assumed it should be the same as pve but wanted to double-check, thank you!

[tight veldt]

no, thank you random citizen

[minor cape]

yeah

definitely cold blood secret tech

if you do rotten then dance symbols

and macro trinket somewhere in there

i also have a macro to use shadow blades trinket dance and symbols when i do a big go

[deep kiln]

Anyone got general tips for ss? As soon as I hit 1800 I dive down 50 pts. Not sure if it's because I don't have 4 set, but there's Def other improvements I need. Big thing is staying alive vs 2 melee (specifically ww and someone else) and ele/lock combos (mostly on large maps where you can't Los them)

I always try to sap healer and blind off it to do pressure. Don't use death mark right away (try to get at least one defensive first). I need to get better at saving smoke bomb.

Any other general tips? I'm not too familiar with other people's go's, so I think I'm wasting defensive too

Also with the 2 piece should I even use it? Big mastery loss and the bonus fucking sucks

[minor cape]

you blind off of sap?

not the other way?

[final vessel]

Id recommend recording your gameplay and dropping it here.

[snow whale]

Hey guys, is outlaw playbale in arena ?

[minor cape]

on assas?????

[deep kiln]

Yeah sap, open, blind healer and try to get cds

[deep kiln]

Yeah 20% poison damage on envenom?

[minor cape]

ooh you mean two piece

[deep kiln]

Ya

4set is broken

[minor cape]

you dont lose much on assas?

w tier set

[deep kiln]

I can do that but I'm just looking for general tips to be aware of

[minor cape]

cause it has caste and crit

and all 3 stats are fine for assas

[deep kiln]

I'll have to compare the stats when I'm back, but the bonus just sucks and I'd rather have verse mastery

[minor cape]

and then you will still use it when you get 4 set 🤔

[past tapir]

tier helm is vers mast

shoulders are vers haste

chest crit mast, not at all bad combinations

[deep kiln]

I'm using crafted head atm

[minor cape]

i hate that i can't go full mastery on sub

[deep kiln]

Haven't gotten any vault tier

[minor cape]

w tier set

:((

[past tapir]

just me, but imo crafted leather head sucks absolute balls

[minor cape]

i honestly think so too

so i just went w tier set head

[deep kiln]

Why? It's verse mast 424

[minor cape]

to not waste stats

[past tapir]

i mean if you need gear absolutely yea

go for it

i am full conq/ epic drakebreaker atm

[minor cape]

yup, i dropped crafted head for tier set head

cause more mastery

[past tapir]

i got head in vault

[minor cape]

than if i chose other set item

[past tapir]

hehe

[minor cape]

me too

[past tapir]

for tier*

as tier i guess i should say, sorry super tired

[minor cape]

that dragon head is fire 🥵

[potent pivot]

Except it doesn’t tho

[potent pivot]

Yeah

[past tapir]

the bonus is weak, imo, but its good stats and if you werent lucky/ unlucky like me and its a tier piece for you right now i see no reason to not wear it

and a weak bonus that is free on a piece of gear is still a bonus

[potent pivot]

Broken Shore from Legion Dalaran

[potent pivot]

It’s free damage

Better than you’d expect it to be imo

[minor cape]

but like 1%

[worthy crag]

the bonus definitely doesnt "just suck"

[warm lance]

Its flat damage % for free

[minor cape]

but wouldnt more mastery give more

than 1%

[worthy crag]

One build that probably wont need the bonus would be dark brew + danse sec tech

[minor cape]

🤔🤔🤔

i think dark brew build benefits the most

[warm lance]

As sub you should go for crafted ring

[minor cape]

but its pve ring

no way i can get 418 ring 😢

[warm lance]

418 mastery vers ring

[minor cape]

whats the best way if i dont have 2400 mmr?

[warm lance]

The embellishment is even more extra mastery

[minor cape]

to get those optional

thinfs

[warm lance]

10 +16 keys

[worthy crag]

16+ keys is the best way period

the drop rate from pvp is god awful

like even if you are 2400+ it would just be miles faster to just do 10 of 16+

[minor cape]

can i do 16+ in like 384 gear?

[worthy crag]

nah

[minor cape]

🥹

[worthy crag]

yeah if you dont get invited cuz of low gear, rip

[minor cape]

411 ring it is then

[worthy crag]

You could just do 1 ring with honor version and its not a big deal

I dont think the crafted helm is worth it

[warm lance]

Well youll be lacking the bonus from embellish

[worthy crag]

the tier glove stat is so shitty

[warm lance]

Thats like 200+mast

[potent pivot]

Depends on the gear set up

[minor cape]

still thinking if it is worth to go 424 crit ring vs 411 mastery ring

[potent pivot]

Why would you wear the honor ring period?

[minor cape]

for mastery

[potent pivot]

You can get a crafted ring

[minor cape]

how :(((

if i cant do 16+

[potent pivot]

Sparks of ingenuity

[warm lance]

Just talked about it and he sais he cant do it

So

[minor cape]

but you need that optional reagent

what do you think is best

411 mastery ring

or 424 crit ring

if i cant get crafted?

[potent pivot]

For sub?

[minor cape]

y

[potent pivot]

I hate to say this, honestly. But prob 411

[minor cape]

thats what i thought too

[potent pivot]

I fundamentally disagree with it

[minor cape]

so im wearing it till i can get crafted smh

[potent pivot]

But judging off what everyone else does, it’s hard to say otherwise

I just dislike how everyone in pvp sees vers>mast or whatever the top two stats are as absolutes

[minor cape]

killing razsageth on normal only gives you one out of ten right?

[potent pivot]

Yeah

[minor cape]

and only once?

so next time i do vault on normal it wont give me reagent

[minor cape]

me too

i think mastery is more important if you already have 30%

[worthy crag]

You can just log onto the game, equip the tier gloves vs normal conq gloves

and if the verse diff says bigger than 1%

ur losing more by going crafted helm and tier glove

[minor cape]

dont have it yet

so cant test rn

but i will

[worthy crag]

last time I ran that check it was bigger than 1%

and thats purely looking at verse

and not mastery

[minor cape]

so basically set helm > crafted?

if full gear

[worthy crag]

if that has any mathematical merit, then yeah

[potent pivot]

For sub I agree ye

[minor cape]

also i noticed i deal significantly more damage w 4 set

so it doesnt suck as much as i thought

🤔

[worthy crag]

i need next reset to get all 4 pieces of pvp

so im taking a break this week

[minor cape]

eviscerate does damage now

[potent pivot]

It’s not bad

[wicked rampart]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/conquest-and-valor-caps-removed-on-february-14th-331314?webhook

Big pog

[minor cape]

oh thats sick

[worthy crag]

nice

[potent pivot]

Ooh

[worthy crag]

when did season 1 start? late december?

so thats about 1 month and a half

[minor cape]

i mean like 30k boost on rupture

thats awesome

[worthy crag]

I thought you couldnt snapshot it

[minor cape]

and eviscerate bonus doesnt seem that much but you do a lot of eviscerates

[potent pivot]

What

[worthy crag]

can you?

[potent pivot]

Wdym

[worthy crag]

the buff stays up for 3 seconds

the sub 4p

so I just thought it would buff like 3 ticks of rupture

[minor cape]

naaah

[worthy crag]

you dont actually "spend" the buff when you rupture

[potent pivot]

Idts

[worthy crag]

it just stays up for 3 sec

[minor cape]

wait really?

[worthy crag]

yeah

[minor cape]

but its even better

[worthy crag]

the buff isnt spent when you evis or rupture

tehnically you can fit like 2 buffed evis with evis MFD evis

but that also means rupture doesnt spend it

[minor cape]

you can like

[worthy crag]

so like your 30 second long rupture isn't really empowered for all those 30 seconds

[minor cape]

rupture without it

and still get bonus when you hut

[worthy crag]

that was my understanding yeah

when the buff is up, your current rupture will tick harder for 3 seconds

[minor cape]

well thats not bad considering how much you backstab and shadowstrike

[worthy crag]

cuz the buff duration is 3 seconds

true

[minor cape]

i dont know how but before set my eviscerates were super shit damage

[warm lance]

It should have decent uptime

[minor cape]

and now they actually feel like doing something

[worthy crag]

Think the #2 sub rogue on EU runs a non sec tech build

just spams evis and spends his CB on ER

[minor cape]

y

[worthy crag]

with 4p

[potent pivot]

Yeah with the rotten and reverb?

[worthy crag]

yeah

[potent pivot]

Or a diff guy

[warm lance]

[potent pivot]

Yeah

[minor cape]

do you think rotten reverb is good

[worthy crag]

Ive also ditched sepsis and went rotten + danse

[fierce laurel]

He doesn't take danse?

[potent pivot]

He does

[minor cape]

i dont get why would someone use cb reverb instead of cb secret tech

[potent pivot]

Pretty sure

[warm lance]

Thats kinda what ppl did on release right? ER just insta blew ppl up

[worthy crag]

I used to run rotten + sepsis but danse def feels like it packs more punch

[worthy crag]

Multiple reasons. Sec tech build doesnt allow you the point to weapon master so your rotten SS can never lucky double proc

and the biggest reason being sec tech has a delay

so ppl can cloak/meld the shadow part

[minor cape]

ehat

i do rotten st and still have weaponmaster

[worthy crag]

You probably dont have the shadowstep 30 yard range then

[warm lance]

Youre lacking somewhere then

[minor cape]

yes

i think weaponmaster better

🤔

[worthy crag]

Its preference at the end of the day though

I think out of all my classes sub has the most tree variation

[warm lance]

I should try rotten now with full set tbh

I like the vanish cdr

[minor cape]

honestly with shadowdust

i dont have problems

w shadowstep cd

[worthy crag]

Yeah esp if ur running double strategem

[minor cape]

and range doesnt seem like a problem too

[worthy crag]

7 cp evis into rotten is 14% empowered

on top of the usual rotten modifier

[minor cape]

oh yeah

out of all builds i tried rotten secret tech is still the best

and with tier set its even stronger

[worthy crag]

I think thats the most popular variation in NA at least

Eu seems to love dark brew

[warm lance]

Tier doesnt buff st tho

[minor cape]

y

[warm lance]

But yeah EU is dark brew mainly on ladder

[minor cape]

i dont get why

i can never do shit w dark brew

cause go resets too long and i never have my big burst when i need it

[worthy crag]

Even in SL I used rotten legendary over anything else

[minor cape]

😦

[worthy crag]

so I cant ditch rotten lol

[minor cape]

btw i dont see how you can evis into rotten

[worthy crag]

its most convnient if ur kidneying healer and cheaping your kill target

[warm lance]

Dark Brew is consistent pressure with ruptures

[minor cape]

not enough dance time

[worthy crag]

you can do something like cheap -> Dance FD +4 cp -> evis -> rotten

dont you have first dance?

[minor cape]

i do

[worthy crag]

So with double stratagem at 7 cp, your kidney spends 5 cp

so you get 2 left

dance gives you 4, so thats 6

you cheap the kill target thats 7

dance then 7 evis into rotten shadowstrike, and then you can do another cheap into evis

and that evis will be 4 set empowered

[minor cape]

but you dont have 7 from start

but yeah

[worthy crag]

you should

[minor cape]

sounds good

[worthy crag]

since you get 5, 1 from cheap and 4 from first dance

and 2 remaining from the 7 cp kidney

[minor cape]

if you spend kidney on 7

dont you get all 7 spent

[worthy crag]

nope

it only spends up to 5

you get 2 remaining

[minor cape]

wow

[worthy crag]

yeah that's a new change in DF

[minor cape]

thought you spend all points anyway

even if its up to 5

sick

[worthy crag]

yeah praise blizz for having some quality of life thoughts

[minor cape]

i thought about first go mainly

so you gouge kidney for 5 points right

gouge dance kidney i mean

and you have 0

[worthy crag]

thats possible but i often just 4 cp kidney just to be faster

[minor cape]

and then you have to sshadowstrike st

[worthy crag]

I mean, I dont run first dance any more but when I did run it thats what I did

but yeah first go is always a bit different

you wont really have the globals for a 2p SS

for that one

[minor cape]

i usually pop all the shit and do cheap into another cheap opener

for 6 sec stun

instead of kidney

maybe thats wrong

[worthy crag]

its an option for sure

opening with cheap and using FD for actual dps is more smooth than using FD for kidney

esp if your teammate is a ramp up spec

but if my team has on demand burst I just do kidney for longer stun period

and they can bring the dmg

even if my own dps rotation becomes clunky for it

[minor cape]

the life of a stunbot

🥹

[worthy crag]

"Deep Freeze emulator"

sohuld be our title

[potent pivot]

You used that over Akaari or Finality? Weirdge

[minor cape]

i wouldnt take rotten if there was no shadowdust

[potent pivot]

Or even MA

I loved Finality sub

[worthy crag]

i played night fae so I didnt get much value out of finality

[potent pivot]

Oof

[worthy crag]

just for fun, not like NF was actually competitive

[potent pivot]

Yeah

I only ever played venth and Kyrian as sub

[minor cape]

but rotten feels so nice and the name is cool and the icon is sick

was sub good in shadowlands?

[worthy crag]

In a twisted way yes

[potent pivot]

@hidden fiber this isn’t an LFG tool my friend

[worthy crag]

7 sec kidney and 4 set RNG proccing 5 evis in a row

[hidden fiber]

sorry

new

[potent pivot]

No problem!

[sharp sierra]

I need to get allied races, some of their racial a look broken.

[minor cape]

5 evis in a row would still be less than secret tech nos

[worthy crag]

nah it was disgusting

In a lot of ways I dont even consider SL s3~s4 sub as "skilled"

the game just randomly gives you good rng to evis back to back to back to back

and ur target is just dead

[minor cape]

it honestly feels like eviscerate should be subs main damage ability

not secret tech

[worthy crag]

It was more threatening in SL than it is now

because most of it was kyrian empowered 7 cp

and finality was taken globally

[potent pivot]

This is more a place for learning and overall discussion

[minor cape]

and you guys

cold blooded evis?

[worthy crag]

cold blood didnt exist in SL

[minor cape]

oh oke

[worthy crag]

Well, I dont remember when it got taken back out but uh

the "previous" version of cold blood was like

10% of enemy's max health as shadow damage on your next cheap shot/shadowstrike

[minor cape]

whaaa

[worthy crag]

it looks better on paper than it actually was

[minor cape]

nah it looks like shit

[worthy crag]

yeah it kinda was

ppl only really used it in legion because orc + relentless made you GCD starved

so they wanted cheap shot to just do dmg

[warm lance]

Cata legendary daggers flashbacks

[minor cape]

cold blood into cheap shot sounds kinda funny

secret tech is so wrong

shouldnt exist

[sharp sierra]

I should try and get them daggers for transmog.

[minor cape]

like

arent those the daggers

from mark of honr vendor

?

the green ones w chains

[worthy crag]

You could run a non sec-tech build

a few people do

[minor cape]

but then no burst

except reverb

[potent pivot]

You still have burst

[worthy crag]

The burst ceiling is lower yes, I woudlnt say "no burst"

[uneven grove]

someone link me a basic sub rogue guide

pls pls

[minor cape]

check out pikaboos guide on youtube

[potent pivot]

Go to iceyveins

[minor cape]

dude dont

dont go to icyveins

their build there is trash

[sharp sierra]

These are still some of my favorite dagger transmogs. Nostalgia for me does it.

[minor cape]

and they tell you to go full crit

[potent pivot]

It’s not for the build?

[minor cape]

ooh oke

[potent pivot]

He asked for a basic guide

IceyVeins has that

[worthy crag]

I always have a hesitation to recommend pika's content to beginners

he is an entertainer, not an educator

[potent pivot]

Yep^

[worthy crag]

so are his videos

[minor cape]

but his build is sick

[potent pivot]

[minor cape]

and he tells what rotation you have

[sharp sierra]

Watched him first time every today, he’s good as shit. And i feel definitely both but has more of a no fucks attitude.

[minor cape]

isnt that the most basic thing?

you need

the rotation

[worthy crag]

The plays he does works because he has an underlying understanding and expertise on the class, if a beginner starts out with his playstyle it'll just give em bad "oneshot" oriented mindset

[potent pivot]

Not only no

Not for someone just picking up the spec

[minor cape]

icy veins tells how to cc tho

💪

[minor cape]

i mean you can understand why he does them from the vids

and i think aggressive playstyle is a good thing

[sharp sierra]

He said all i need is to sap the healer and then blind them, instant 2500 rating. So if i don’t hit 2500 imma just sue him

[minor cape]

xdddd

he meant blind sap

[worthy crag]

he didnt mention the part of your teammate religiously breaking cc

[potent pivot]

You can’t just give someone brand new to a spec a rotation and empty promises

[minor cape]

true

[warm lance]

A beginner cannot

[minor cape]

im a beginner myself but other mmo experience helps

i guess

[sharp sierra]

Too late for pika, lawsuit incoming.

[potent pivot]

[graceful ravine]

Holy shit uncapped conq is huge

[minor cape]

oh yeah

[warm lance]

Can gear outlaw ez after patch

[minor cape]

++++

i want to do some outlaw but have mastery shit

[sharp sierra]

I need to get used to KB and mouse though. Even though i have g600 i still find myself too slow when i’m using the ctrl modifier. But in my defense i haven’t been on kb mouse for like 14 years.

Try to put all my CD things on ctrl modifier on the mouse.

[sharp sierra]

Yeah i was using combat for pve, feel like it’s definitely easier than assa. But i don’t have much time to play afternoon which is when people usually do raids. I can only play morning or late night. So back to pvp i go, which is all i did anyways back in the day.

Once i’m comfortable again i’m going to get my other 3 main chars i played leveled back up. Always switched between rogue/war/lock/priest

Need to remake the war since my old war is now on a low pop server, wanted to get an allied race for him

[alpine tinsel]

disarming wings doesnt do anything for us right

[sharp sierra]

how do i get over rating depression

Is there like a consensus on what’s the best allied race for a war for pvp, or even just in general.

hardstuck 2.2k in 3s as evo/assa/dh and no rating gain to be seen

[sharp sierra]

Pikaboo just said sap and then blind the healer and you’re automatically at 2400

gotta start doing that

And if they trinket, kidney shot them. I don’t know he made it sound really easy 😂

[warm lance]

Just kill them first

Easy rating

[uneven grove]

uhh guys i didn't want to start an argument

i just needed some basic info about sub, but i just jumped a BG anyway

why rupture hit as a fcking truck

on SUB?!

hello

[potent pivot]

because, there's a talent that directly buffs it and makes it cleave when cast

[uneven grove]

yeah i don't have it on rn

but i just tested it on dummy

hit 140k from a single cast

i don't think it hits this hard as assa

ahh wait nvm sub mastery buffs rupture more than assa mastery

holy

[potent pivot]

assa is garrote rogue

sub is rupture rogue

[uneven grove]

sub burst now through 6 points of kidney instead of 3 cheap shot?

[graceful ravine]

2.2 now is pretty good

Give it a month and inflation brings that to 2.4 easily

[sharp sierra]

cheers buddy ❤️

[uneven grove]

is there any time u want to press shadow blades without dance?

[graceful ravine]

from stealth yea

I guess now is a good time to lvl a 2nd rogue

[lucid lark]

[uneven grove]

comp stomp

[glad zinc]

i see a couple of top rogues taking tiny toxic blade, is it really that good?

[sharp sierra]

Why a second, lol?

[graceful ravine]

lower cr games with less stress

[wise breach]

I had 3 rogues in SL for the different covenants 🙂

Before they made it easy to swap

Then just kept playing them all

[sharp sierra]

What’s a covenant? Lol, well don’t even need to know what it is. Just do i need one? If not then it’s all good 😂

[twin burrow]

anyone have a suggestion for a dps alt

[final vessel]

No, it was a last xpac thing

[sharp sierra]

Perfect, thanks lol

[deep kiln]

is there any maintained version of gladius/gladiusex? both throw thousands of lua errors and lag the game

trying sarena but i just liked gladius

[snow whale]

Hey boys, im a décent pve outlaw and sub rogue, and now that ive got the rating i wanted in PvE id like to do some pvp. Player 60 games ass assa and im absolutely fucking trash.
Whats thé easiest to have fun with : assa or sub ?

Played*

[wise breach]

Assa is easier for sure

[warm lance]

Easiest to have FUN with?

Whatever you enjoy the most

[graceful ravine]

winning is fun 😉

[wise breach]

Winning is fun 🙂

[warm lance]

Thats a pretty objective question

[wise breach]

Subjective you mean?

[warm lance]

yes, brainfart

[wise breach]

Some people hate assa playstyle, some people love it

[graceful ravine]

is the primal chaos transfer in game yet?

[wise breach]

Yup

[graceful ravine]

wheres the vendor

[wise breach]

It's the Artisan's Consortium vendor next to the crafting order dudes

[graceful ravine]

ty

[warm lance]

How many primal chaos do we need for a crafted ring at 418?

[wise breach]

Looks like 30

[snow whale]

Agree with winning is fun (at least being absolutely trashed isnt) ! Will keep going on assa then, Thanks

[uneven grove]

surv got another 5% buff

alongside of all hunter spec ofc

[lyric onyx]

I’m glad they saw the 4 set was the problem and didn’t go ham nerfing all our baseline abilities

[graceful ravine]

bruuuh i just made my 2nd rogue

couldnt they let me get glad first!?

[wise breach]

Yeah, this seems fine

I was expecting worse considering how much people were whining

[graceful ravine]

bruh fuck

we hate hunters

[warm lance]

goddamnit. shitty warrior ruined my 6-0

dont think the guy pressed ignore pain once

[graceful ravine]

looks like i gotta pump solo this weekend before the nerfs...

[warm lance]

twice in a 1m 24sec game

actually think thats on CD right

[tight veldt]

subb buffs plz

[warm lance]

yeah scroll up just abit its alrdy there

[spark egret]

now it's here 3 times

rest in peace my brothers

it's over

[fierce laurel]

This is exactly the change I was expecting but I was expecting more somehow

[warm lance]

I was sure there would be more

Dont think anyone thought they wouldnt do this

[tight veldt]

dont think you can justify nerfing it more. Like, we needed a dmg nerf but prior to 4 set Sin wasnt OVER THE TOP

Theyve been nerfing rogues over and over all xpac

[drowsy monolith]

so i gotta get elite before the nerf

yikes

need 150 rating

[tight veldt]

If they nerf anymore, then we need defensive buffs. Still have the highest % first blood in the game

[warm lance]

You can get it after too

[uneven grove]

finally i can play my WW, won't die to DM + shiv baseline

[wise breach]

So the Wound change means DM + Wound stays at 24%, correct?

[graceful ravine]

im happy bout this

[uneven grove]

20% OP is insane

[drowsy monolith]

yo do you guys just send dm + exang right out the gates?

[warm lance]

Executioners precision nerf is big

[warm lance]

I use Exsang on opener and DM on 2nd

[drowsy monolith]

intereseting

[tight veldt]

hunter buffs tho plz... why... i dont wanna die to pets anymore 😦

[drowsy monolith]

never tried that

i think i hold my DM exang too long

should prolly just send it

[warm lance]

So far people react to it by using their defensives there

So 2nd kidney is DM go

[drowsy monolith]

ait ait

had three games 3-3 now, +-0 cr

2251cr

never hit elite ever so i'm nervous as all hell

[warm lance]

Just had a 5-1

Unluckily enough my partner didnt know what LoS from healer meant

Or outranging them

Dude actually leapt away from their own healer to run away from my damage

[worthy crag]

is that actually gonna bring arms in line?

[warm lance]

Jokes on you, I use dots

Well I think it mostly brings their damage spike down

But their overall dmg should be really good still

2exec 2op mortal strikes will be hitting for 40% less

Than what it does now

[worthy crag]

i assume thats what warriors were doing until now to spike up their mortal strike hits?

[warm lance]

Yeah

If you get hit by 2 executes you gotta prepare for a huge spike

2exec 2op Sharpen Mortal strike with Warbreaker or anything else fucking chunks

[jolly sierra]

so the party is over w assa?

[graceful ravine]

so are we kingsbane enjoyers now?

[warm lance]

Why would it be over

[fierce laurel]

Good patch

[worthy crag]

I guess im a winner for sitting out this week

good changes coming

[jolly sierra]

dunno, some nerfs are hard af

like w ret

fuck ret