Resounding clarity is what gives er its value, I can’t imagine it being worth without
#pvp
long roost
plain cape
ye while leveling prollyu ranmdomly had the other one
potent pivot
That’s the only reason why it’d give one that I can think of
uneven grove
are u guys ready for the patch notes, 100% they will push out a hotfix notes today
or something
potent pivot
Resounding Clarity is what makes it 3
long roost
are u guys ready for the patch notes, 100% they will push out a hotfix notes tod...
Will this supposed hotfix actually stop feral from melting everyone in aoe
plain cape
ok thanks @potent pivot
uneven grove
i just hope they will do multiple balancing, not just push a fast assa nerf
long roost
Maybe it’s my rating but ass seems far from the worst in terms of pvp balance right now
It is very very good though
uneven grove
assa with 4pc is completely broken
swift adder
This might be a hot take but I really wish solo shuffle never existed
It's a dogshit inflated mode and it ruined 2s & 3s qs
uneven grove
i don't mind it, i rather play SS than sitting in LFG for hours
long roost
I like having an option when nobody I know is about for arena
graceful ravine
Pls inflate a lil faster so I can get my glad mount before nerfs
uneven grove
Now we sit in 30 min queues
yeah that's not cool, maybe they will come up with something
graceful ravine
Like allowing lower mmr healers in the same lobby 🥸
Trading the 2nd evil for a 3rd
potent pivot
Damage is still too high across the board
uneven grove
that was obviously a lazy change
potent pivot
And healing too low
brave yarrow
whats the addon called that lets me display some of my CD´s somewhere to keep better track of them?
potent pivot
whats the addon called that lets me display some of my CD´s somewhere to keep be...
There’s multiple
long roost
Like allowing lower mmr healers in the same lobby 🥸
I’d rather shit in my hands n clap than deal with this, such a dice roll
brave yarrow
do you have a recommendation?
potent pivot
OmniCD, Omnibar(for enemy CDs)
OmniCD is for your team mates CDs
For your personal CDs you need TellMeWhen or WeakAuras
potent pivot
I like the current pace tbh
I do too. Even damp is alright in shuffle
But you can tell healers just can’t deal with the raw damage of a lot of classes
graceful ravine
Bfa was all damp games. Sl was a burst meta where consistent dmg is zero and you can only win with triple cc and burst windows
We’re in a good place rn imo
brave yarrow
For your personal CDs you need TellMeWhen or WeakAuras
thanks! i´ll try tellmewhen
rose iris
sadge i bought the conq helm
I cant wait to get my 4 set sadge
Guys what stage do you usually force the deathmark + exsanguinate combo
or do you deal with em seeparatley
wait is the pvp helm worth it?
rose iris
damn so i wasted on my conq helm pepehands
radiant glen
its OK! you'll be fine with a conq helm
rose iris
ok i will try craft it in the near future
plain cape
is crit better than haste for ass ?
rose iris
mastery->hast
radiant glen
Generally speaking, the answer you get is dependent on the rogue you talk to
a few top assa players swear that its haste > mast > crit
while others say mast > haste > crit
rose iris
crit never compete on 2nd spot tho right
radiant glen
personally im on team haste but the vast majority, and this discord, advocate mastery
yeah, crit always last outside of some incredibly cheese strat
rose iris
what rating are u xang like do you feel like haste works at ur rating
plain cape
i see thanks alot guys
radiant glen
i dont think its possible without dropping tier, so no
i just equip tier + crafted pieces + every slot with haste i can get it
gem haste/vers
enchant vers
rose iris
any reason why pikaboo didnt craft the helm btw
radiant glen
not sure personally, would have to ask him
but i will say
pikaboo was running ilvl 200 conduits in season 2 of shadowlands
so sometimes his gearing choices are out of pure laziness
plain cape
pika yday didnt press his exsanguinate once in two games;p first one he didnt even deathmark
radiant glen
that being said, he might have a reason. i don't like to judge too harshly on why someone does something without talking to them first so
im sure he'll answer in twitch chat if you ask
plain cape
for the head or for the tourrnament?
radiant glen
head
rose iris
that being said, he might have a reason. i don't like to judge too harshly on wh...
yeah but pikaboo is incredible good rogue i know hes lazy also but i feel like his pure skill outshines a crafted item if i isay so
radiant glen
when i said both crafted items were great, i meant they were both upgrades over anything else in the slot
long roost
any reason why pikaboo didnt craft the helm btw
He runs lariat
Which takes the second crafting spot
long roost
Boots are mandatory
long roost
After that it’s neck at max crafted Ilvl, or hat
Helm is much easier to get, cause it pvp scales, neck doesn’t
rose iris
18 rating 5 wins 
rose iris
Helm is much easier to get, cause it pvp scales, neck doesn’t
ty alot!
swift yacht
PVP dummy :v
casual 120k dmg from one button press
170k w/ shadow dance xDDDDDDDDDDDD i really need to test it on bg
prey on the weak + shadowdance with dark shadow
quick combo during 6s cheap shot
potent pivot
are helm 2nd best
Helm is the best choice
wintry dew
What's that cataclysmic punch thing?
potent pivot
Unless you’re going to farm very high m+ for a dungeon ring
swift yacht
damn xd
potent pivot
I have it, tested it week 1 of the season iirc
potent pivot
After that it’s neck at max crafted Ilvl, or hat
Hat>neck of you aren’t farming m+ or raid gear
minor cape
da fuck is cataclysmic punch
swift yacht
da fuck is cataclysmic punch
falcon punch
minor cape
kek
swift yacht
on papper and dummy it sounded great
chrome schooner
The head isn't a better piece than the neck
The stats on the head set are bis, if you take the crafter set you are forced to have set on all other parts just for 1% dmg
Bjt in fact if you pick head set and mastery versa legs you gain much more damage than the 1% of the crafted head
If you really want à 2nd crafted item the lariat is better
Amd I'd even say it is better to run without a 2nd crafted than with the head
potent pivot
I disagree
Even for sub the ring is likely a better candidate than lariat
Basically none of the top players were running lariat before the AWC
Now everyone is just jumping on the bandwagon not realizing the only reason it was better for AWC players is because they ran PvE daggers and ring
chrome schooner
You can disagree but if you run the math on the stats
With takes
2 minutes
Then you will be forced to agree
potent pivot
Nah
chrome schooner
Because feelings don't hold up against the fact that 1% more flat damage is way worse than 3ish % mastery
potent pivot
I already have, and tested it
chrome schooner
Again it's math
potent pivot
Like I said
chrome schooner
There is no argument
potent pivot
For sub ring>lariat
potent pivot
Right
chrome schooner
For Sub it's arguable maybe
chrome schooner
I don't have it now, I did it when I had to make my char
But in any case
The people discussing the helm above were talking about Assa
Right
And for Assa set helm > crafted helm
potent pivot
Mhm that’s what I was under the impression of
Ok so hear me out
On TR everyone ran haste vers daggers
These budgets are not the same
We’re talking about the gear recommendations for (mostly) people under 2.4K and who will not likely pve for actual BiS items
chrome schooner
It's simple really, scale gear to 424, check set helm stats + versa mastery legs, now check crafted helm + set legs, and you will see that the sheer amount of mastery given by the first combination beats the second one + 1%
Doesn't take a math god :p
potent pivot
It's simple really, scale gear to 424, check set helm stats + versa mastery legs...
It’s not only mastery though
glad zinc
@potent pivot just curious, in the pinned sub build. how come you dont move a point from quick decisions or weaponmaster into dark brew for more rupture damage
potent pivot
The crit and haste from gloves is not a “bad” thing
potent pivot
<@629463378250956810> just curious, in the pinned sub build. how come you dont m...
You definitely can
chrome schooner
If I remember correctly it's something along the lines of
No crafted helm has about 3% more mastery, similar versa, and maybe 1 or 2% less crit
So even the 1% damage doesn't make the crafted thing better
Since Mastery is basically flat dmg with our current damage profile
potent pivot
Yeah it’s getting wild
chrome schooner
Yeah I wish I had 4P
Getting my last wins needed around 3k without it was much much pain, I don't wanna play until I have it
Everyone doing more damage by accident
Yikes
potent pivot
No crafted helm has about 3% more mastery, similar versa, and maybe 1 or 2% less...
Was that with pve items on TR or all pvp gear
chrome schooner
It isn't even something you need to care about
You can directly compare the stats of the combinations of these two pieces of gear
We are under stat drs anyway even with perfect gear on TR
So whatever gear you pick, pvp epic, tr with pve items, blue gear or naked it's going to be the same
potent pivot
How much haste or crit you have matters as well
You can’t only compare mastery vs dmg that’s pointless
chrome schooner
The Haste doesn't change
Since none of the items involved have haste
It's only crit vers and mastery
Now if you think that some 1-2% more crit is better than 3% mastery more power to you
potent pivot
Ye I get what you mean but
On TR ik everyone (that I looked at anyway) ran the haste daggers
chrome schooner
Yes because haste is better than crit and they are max ilvl
potent pivot
On live we can get some haste from other pieces so helm vs gloves can come out diff
chrome schooner
It's not about getting haste
If there were mastery daggers
We'd go mastery daggers
It's abiut getting what is best for each slot
potent pivot
Mhmm
chrome schooner
Haste versa 424 is better than crit versa 424
Hence
You pick
You don't need Haste as Assa right now and you do have some forced on you with the set anyway
potent pivot
But getting some haste isn’t worthless
You don’t need it for energy reasons but it still adds damage through tick rate etc
When we can have plenty of mastery
chrome schooner
Okay listen
No stat is worthless
However
And again it's math
Some stats give you more dmg per point
potent pivot
Right and how are you quantifying what amount of damage haste is giving you
wintry dew
I've come and left like 5 times and you two still discussing the same thing, priceless xD
potent pivot
I’m not trying to argue with you
I’m genuinely trying to understand your approach here
potent pivot
I've come and left like 5 times and you two still discussing the same thing, pri...
Well for one I think it’s an interesting discussion
twin burrow
I think the channel is made for these discussions
potent pivot
I wouldn’t waste my time trying to really understand the other perspective if I wasn’t intrigued
chrome schooner
Haste has many benefits right, increased autohit speed, increased energy regen, increased dot tics
potent pivot
I think the channel is made for these discussions
Exactly right
chrome schooner
In PvP right now you don't need more energy so this benefit is null and void basically
which leaves more damage with dot tics and more autohits
You can compute this by knowing how haste interacts your dots
potent pivot
Mhm
chrome schooner
Basically it's time between 2 tics = base time between 2 tics / (1+ haste) so you know how much your % of haste increases your damage
Since well, you know your base time between tics, so you know how much faster you tic with a set % of haste
So you can get the dmg increase to dots easily
and so you can compare with mastery
of course if you want to be totally exact you have to look at energy etc etc
But right now in pvp energy gains are irrelevant
Mastery was ALWAYS as better than Haste as it is now in tems of damage
Simply
Before DF you HAD to pick haste else you didn't have energy to spam globals
So then it didn't matter that your globals dealt more damage
Since you couldn't press them
But now you have enough energy with Vigor, Dashing Scoundrel and Thistle Tea that got added to Venomous Wounds (which was nerfed btw so haste even grants less energy than before for the same value)
potent pivot
Yeah I’m not really even thinking about energy
chrome schooner
well then if you only look at the damage
potent pivot
Just the increased tick rate and ticks in general
chrome schooner
yeah well then the thing is
you get A LOT more mastery % per point than haste% per point
And so mastery wins
potent pivot
If you gain ticks and compare that to the ticks overall hitting let’s say for example 3% harder
potent pivot
graceful ravine
lariot?
potent pivot
IMO it’s helm, but I guess now I’ll retest it to be 100% sure
chrome schooner
If you gain ticks and compare that to the ticks overall hitting let’s say **for ...
you can say that roughly X% haste is X% dmg increase to your dots
graceful ravine
is it possible to remove the emblishments off my ring or do i need to craft another without it
chrome schooner
alright
but X% mastery is also X% increase to your dots
but ALSO to your non dot non physical dmg
AND you get more mastery % per point than haste
chrome schooner
IMO it’s helm, but I guess now I’ll retest it to be 100% sure
ignoring my whole explanation while it's still ongoing I see :p
potent pivot
so... whats the tldr
Either way this is ridiculously minmax in comparison it’s likely less than 1% of your dps
potent pivot
ignoring my whole explanation while it's still ongoing I see :p
Well this is the opinion I already gathered from testing, and obv your opinion is otherwise
I don’t think Dayv will jump the gun over it 
chrome schooner
The thing about opinions
Is that they are factually correct just because you have it
You can calculate the output % difference between crafted helm and not crafted helm
potent pivot
Is that they are factually correct just because you have it
I’m going off of my own math and testing
chrome schooner
And you will have more output without it
potent pivot
It’s not something pulled out of the air
chrome schooner
And that is NOT arguable
And your math somehow shows that 1% dmg and some crit beat 3% dmg ?
potent pivot
If you’re talking about simply 1 slot yes. But we’re not talking about just 1 slot in reality. You have to add in lariat>conq neck, tier helm>crafted and conq gloves>tier
chrome schooner
No no no
Right now I'm saying
"CRAFTED HELM OR NOT CRAFTED HELM"
This directly translates in:
- Crafted Helm + Set Legs
- Set Helm + Mastery Legs (or Gloves w.e which one you wanna keep is another debate actually)
The second option gives you more damage
So that's already better to not play the helm right now
Then if the Lariat straight up beats the conquest neck, you pick it on top, cool
Really, as long as you are below stat DRs you can look slot per slot
Or two slots per two slots of one directly impacts the other like in this one scenario
potent pivot
If you actually extrapolate dmg from some matches 1% mastery is likely closer to ~.75% dmg, but anyway
I’m at work, let me get back to this later on
twin burrow
Dayv a real one
chrome schooner
I mean yeah if you remove autohits and mutilate it's not exactly 1% but then again Mutilate is the most useless spell right now, is literally bottom on your prio list, and even when you do use it it deals close to no overall damage. The same goes with Haste, it's an increase to your DoT damage only which isn't all your damage and also your DoTs could fall off 'cause kiting, dispel etc so... And then again on some games you could never crit big hits so crit is actually not an increase at all despite having 40% idk
"some matches" aren't how you look over data
grave basin
@chrome schooner for a rogue that cant craft lariat which tier pieces are bis then?
for assa*
graceful ravine
jsut glad assa and sub share the same bis stat
jolly sierra
god what a text wall
graceful ravine
it was annoying previous seasons to have to gear for both differently
jolly sierra
all for a 1% dmg crafted helm
grave basin
if im not autistically fretting over 1% dam how will i break out of the 1600 bracket
like come on do you even gamer
graceful ravine
how strong is rshams earthern wall? is it equal to priest's PS?
unique bramble
Has the shadowstep focus macro been fixed?
fierce laurel
how strong is rshams earthern wall? is it equal to priest's PS?
It absorbed a flat amount of damage per damage instance so it’s insane against dots but weaker against warriors.
chrome schooner
how strong is rshams earthern wall? is it equal to priest's PS?
It depends against what. It's super insane against Assa, useless against Sub
fierce laurel
Better than ps against sin.
graceful ravine
in terms of cd trading, is it a big cd to trade?
fierce laurel
It’s not worth fighting inside it usually.
chrome schooner
So it's not THAT big to trade if you're the Shaman I guess
Against Assa it's basically a "no one can die for 15s every now and then as long as they stay inside"
But it won't heal people in trouble, so if it's not pre-emptively used, they need to trade more
graceful ravine
ic ty
looking at the worldpvp reddit while at work
so many ppl crying bout rogues
lmao
jolly sierra
again?
waxen meteor
it was annoying previous seasons to have to gear for both differently
Too real
jolly sierra
god there are worse class than rogs and they always cries about us
waxen meteor
It was extra annoying when you swap specs you kinda need to re-gear
jolly sierra
when warriors are op af nobody cares
fierce laurel
The worst was that they required different legendaries.
graceful ravine
It was extra annoying when you swap specs you kinda need to re-gear
yup... couldnt even try ther other specs til super late into season
- resockets
waxen meteor
Totally made no sense. and it's not like change specs and roles, I can get it if heal pally and ret pally needs different stuff
graceful ravine
but now the opposite problem is that gearing is so easy, r1s smurf hard on alts
petkick got 5 dks or someshit top20 2v2 ladder lol
waxen meteor
True as well, and in 2s, it's always against meta team
anyway I don't like 2s this season, it's more like practice ground for kill window and etc.
when i get used to 2s pace, i screw myself up in 3s
orchid plinth
the thing I dont get is that it feels like people would rather see shit like TSG mirrors than RMP vs RPS and im like ?????????????????????
Melee Caster Healer is so much more fun to watch
graceful ravine
there will always be a #1
twin burrow
Yeah me and my teammates refuse to even melle cleave, seems the most boring and braindead and easy to counter
graceful ravine
and ppl will complain about them
orchid plinth
they just h8 yellow 
remove kidney
twin burrow
Yup, human condition
waxen meteor
the problem is melee blend is way toooooooo common in mid CP range
and it also makes caster's like miserable
wise breach
Man I just hope assa doesn't get dumpstered due to all the people whining
waxen meteor
when it's 3 melee and 1 caster, you know how it ends
wise breach
Slight nerfs to 4pc, sure
waxen meteor
4pc nerf has to be called from PvE, sadly
there's no way they will tune tier set for PvP
twin burrow
I don't have 4pc and feel very strong
wise breach
It's not too strong in PvE compared to other 4 sets
graceful ravine
i think rogues will get nerfed at the end of awc
waxen meteor
I don't know if it's fair tbh
jolly sierra
i have the 4set and im feeling op af
waxen meteor
tuning should be based on majority of population's game
jolly sierra
dunno how i got it from just 1 piece a week ago to 4
waxen meteor
not a few of elite players
graceful ravine
being able to win games without ever pressing deathmark is insane
jolly sierra
deathmark is the bait
graceful ravine
that has never happened for us
wise breach
I could see Deathmark getting dropped to 50% effectiveness in PvP
graceful ravine
good
wise breach
I think that would be a solid change
waxen meteor
4pc should never be tuned for PvP, essentially we are just borrowing things from PvE
jolly sierra
still a tuning tho
waxen meteor
damn then i am naive
wise breach
Tbh though, I really dislike assa's current damage breakdown
jolly sierra
thought the nerf was because ppl was screaming a lot by being Xv1 disgusting bear just spamming maul
wise breach
Mutilate and Envenom need to hit harder, and Garrote is too good
wise breach
Envenom is in a weird spot because it's balanced around Amplifying in PvE
waxen meteor
Envenom problem is 50% linked to most choose deadly over Amplifying
gleaming pawn
It’s almost like there should be different paths through the talent trees, one buffing bleeds, on buffing envenom and poisons. That would require blizzard to not be clueless though
jolly sierra
paladin has the same issue w damage
waxen meteor
someone posted pikaboo's awc video earlier last weekend.
there's no such thing like spread the dmg to all people for dot (at least not common)
jolly sierra
finishers are not strong, but spenders are
waxen meteor
in most of the games, he stays with same target most of game
yeah there's always step kick and etc.
but also gauge
jolly sierra
well, that and using kidney in healer works
wise breach
That depends on the matchup a bit, but at the high end, yeah, it's totally different from shuffle playstyle
waxen meteor
he uses shiv explosion (and extra slow), then bomb in a few games without stun or after stun, the guy got super slowed in bomb cannot get out
jolly sierra
shuffle stays the same till 2k2 tho
in his footage vid he shown a 1k4 game, a 1k6 one and a 2k2 one
in the 3 ppl were playing like monkeys
potent pivot
"some matches" aren't how you look over data
That’s the only way to realistically look at how much effective dmg % is made up of dots vs the rest
grave basin
is exang worth it to talent into post nerf?
jolly sierra
yes
waxen meteor
in his footage vid he shown a 1k4 game, a 1k6 one and a 2k2 one
tbh, i feel tuning in a way should be facing 'monkeys'
jolly sierra
tbh, i feel tuning in a way should be facing 'monkeys'
general tuning u say?
to make them think better to do dmg?
waxen meteor
general tuning u say?
Yeah general tuning for PvP
gleaming pawn
You can exsang in your opener, when you have an empowered garrote to get trinkets and CDs out of the energy team
waxen meteor
to make them think better to do dmg?
No I mean some classes might be super good when in super organized plays in high end plays by let's say 1% of players.
chrome schooner
That’s the only way to realistically look at how much effective dmg % is made up...
No, the way to do it is to look at a large sample and see what happens on average ... "on some matches Garrote deals close to no dmg 'cause people die opener" so Garrote isn't so good what would that reasoning be if not stupid ?
Anyway. You'll compute things I guess
waxen meteor
but if it's normal for 80% of players, it's alright in my opinion
jolly sierra
well, can agree with u in that point
waxen meteor
if a class is not that good in 1% of players competitions, but super broken good at 80% of people game, that's where tuning is needed
we can always say you gotta learn to play better or find better teammates
potent pivot
No, the way to do it is to look at a large sample and see what happens on averag...
Yeah ofc. You know what I mean
grave basin
but the recommended build in the pins doesnt even have exang
waxen meteor
but it's not right in my opinion to tun in that way
grave basin
what do you give up for it? sbs?
waxen meteor
what do you give up for it? sbs?
exang is always replacing master assassin
wise breach
Eh, I don't know if I agree with that, balance should take into account the potential of a spec
waxen meteor
choose 1 between the 2
in my honest opinion, neither is super good
exang can be decent if it doesn't take globals
gleaming pawn
Exsang sits in a preference spot. If you like it, use it, if not you have to take MA instead so you can pick up Iron Wire
jolly sierra
i use xsang in shuffle cuz rounds are usually very fast and still do pressure
waxen meteor
Exsang sits in a preference spot. If you like it, use it, if not you have to tak...
both leads to iron wire
it makes absolutly zero difference for next picks
gleaming pawn
Yes, you have to take one or the other, so it’s preference
Both are meh, but we have to play one to get Iron Wire
waxen meteor
yeah it just pick MA or Exang by your preference then let go
chrome schooner
exang is always replacing master assassin
No. You can remove some poison talents for it as well
wise breach
There were a number of AWC players running both and dropping poison stuff
chrome schooner
That's what was done yday on awc for instance
waxen meteor
No. You can remove some poison talents for it as well
well i am more leaning towards MA has low value, and you gotta have to pick one talent there between MA/Exang to go to next levels
so most likely your choice stays between one of MA and Exang
choosing both doesn't seem to make too much sense to me
like why would you pick MA if you can pick anything else
wise breach
I feel like MA is underestimated a bit, you are often vanishing or melding to follow a kidney in a kill attempt
waxen meteor
I feel like MA is underestimated a bit, you are often vanishing or melding to fo...
I think the first 3 globals, you are probably not using direct dmg skills a lot?
maybe deathmark or ER or sth
wise breach
No, but all your dots get the crit chance too
waxen meteor
in long term, true.
but not in 3 seconds window and with 30% crit
gleaming pawn
It’s too short and too little crit to ever be super impactful. Can it be good? Sure. You can also just as likely to get no use out of it
waxen meteor
actually i think it can be a good option when you use amplying
then 'double dip' Envenom can be a good crit
twin burrow
MA I love
waxen meteor
why
For the 2 tkts? (and could be 1 tikt in probably 50% of cases wihtin 3 sec window) I just havn't been able to understand it, no offense at all, just trying to learn
shut solstice
i think rogues will get nerfed at the end of awc
Please no. -outlaw main
waxen meteor
Theory crafting, please correct me if i am wrong I am noob.
I just did a test on dummy, fresh garrot from stealth, it's roughly 10k per tikt. (with improved garrote bonus).
30% crit goes for roughly 1.5k more dmg in the tikt.
Since it's a 2 seconds per tikt dot, we are talking about 50% chance 1 tikt, 50% chance 2 tikt in 3seconds window. so roughly the value of MA is 2.25K dmg in 3 seconds window for garrot on single target.
Now assuming we keep garrote on double target all the time, this means 4.5K dmg.
Then let's take a look at rupture in same way, it's roughly 6k per tikt on dummy.
30% crit goes for roughly 0.9k more dmg in the tikt.
Since it's a 2 seconds per tikt dot, we are talking about 50% chance 1 tikt, 50% chance 2 tikt in 3seconds window. so roughly the value of MA is 1.35K dmg in 3 seconds window for Rupture on single target.
Now assuming we keep rupture on double target all the time, this means 2.7K dmg.
With them combined, we are talking about 7.2K dmg on dummies considering both dots are on 2 targets. (and i think we don't deal same amount of dmg on dummy vs players)
We have 3 Gcds that enjoys the 30 crit buff, but it seems we are assuming we will apply the garrote for improved garrot bonus as 1 gcd, and another gcd probably as kidney, so i am not assuming to much direct dmg here.
Starting number (10k/6k) as example can be higher or lower depends vert/enchant trigger/buff/tier set etc. but the main idea above is there
grave basin
why does our 3min cd feel shittier to press than our 2min cd?
orchid plinth
warped anchor
people use to use MA for double envenoms in SL, but it was 100% crit then
waxen meteor
it happens
waxen meteor
people use to use MA for double envenoms in SL, but it was 100% crit then
i can totally see the value when it's 100% crit
warm lance
It used to be a class legendary in legion
unborn portal
warm lance
100% used by every rogue spec at the time
waxen meteor
if it's 100% crit, yeah, with death mark double amply poison, you vanish and go double 'double dip' envenoms
looks like a 100k dmg in 3s window
wicked rampart
Is MA still perma active during stealth as well? If so that also changes the value because there are plenty of situations that you wouldn't immediately reengage post vanish/meld, but you are still giving your active bleeds the bonus crit the entire time you are chilling in stealth.
graceful ravine
do you become an invisible ninja falling from the sky
fierce laurel
No. It was a way to squeeze another finisher in your vanish window because your gcd is available immediately upon landing.
Then they stopped you from being able to vanish while fallling.
But I guess you also became an invisible ninja.
potent tiger
Murlok shows both sin and sub stacking mastery is that the way now
jolly sierra
lost 150 CR but kept the MMR, NICE
wicked rampart
!stats
lethal roostBOT
These are the recommended stat priorities for each spec in PvP. Please keep in mind that having suboptimal stats on some pieces such as tier set pieces is not the end of the world.
Subtlety: Vers>Mastery>Crit>Haste
Assassination: Vers>Mastery>Haste=/=Crit
Outlaw: Vers>Crit>Haste>Mastery
potent tiger
any softcap for mastery?
wicked rampart
the moon
potent tiger
sick lol
so I can just go full mastery except pieces I can't get mastery on
ty guys!
warm lance
Basically just tier pieces without mastery are the ones that wont have it
Cause you can just mix in drakebreaker stuff
fierce laurel
The soft cap is technically 5353 or so but it only DRs 10% at that point so unlikely to change the relative order of your stats.
warm lance
Probably cant reach it with current gear either?
fierce laurel
I have well over 6000 verse.
warm lance
Is it time to play some warlock now 
Destro seems to be good now
fierce laurel
lyric onyx
they were talking bout mastery not vers
warm lance
Well you kinda get a ton of vers anyway, but i dont think we can get that much of Mastery?
waxen meteor
that's very high stat
warm lance
Thats a feint perma 
graceful ravine
they should just add glad mounts to shuffle and set it at 150 wins at 2700
fierce laurel
All secondary stat lines have DR at the same value. Your right though. It would be hard to reach 5353 mastery.
warm lance
In a later season though
fierce laurel
My point is that, you're safe ignoring secondary stat DRs this year.
waxen meteor
i have 6000 vers and 42% mastery with 14% crit only 😦
I do still have 8% haste
but it looks i am doing sth wrong in gear
jolly sierra
got back the cr i lost w the alt monk
fierce laurel
that's very high stat
0 tier set sub reporting in o7
waxen meteor
0 tier set sub reporting in o7
yeah 0 haste sort of spoke
but looks scary high stat
27% mastery diff
fierce laurel
I’m gemmed and enchanted for mastery too. Which makes me wonder how Davy has 72 mastery.
waxen meteor
ok if it contains enchant trigger, then it least it makes some senec
i did't take data with any trigger
like even tea increases a bunch of mastery
fierce laurel
No. I took this from his video before any abilities this weekend.
Well obviously sprint is popped but no combat.
ebon furnace
Do you ever Ambush over Mutilate as Assa ? And if yes why ?
warped anchor
only if you take the blindside talent
jolly sierra
can endure mugambala, but not the kul tiran arena w the obnoxious commenter and the excessive loading screens
waxen meteor
Do you ever Ambush over Mutilate as Assa ? And if yes why ?
depends if you blindside
You can potentially do garrot/ambush/rupture then mfd kidney in a very safe condition with all target's teammate being cced. and only against caster (and if you still have the 3 seconds stealth skill cast talent)
but it's rare
ebon furnace
Ty for the answer, not playing blindside was just wondering if there were any real use cases and if i should bother to bind it at all on my assa
waxen meteor
Ty for the answer, not playing blindside was just wondering if there were any re...
if you have blindside, you will use ambush
not bad dmg and 0 cost
fresh star
Are we taking Tiny Toxic Blade and SBS now?
wicked rampart
Ty for the answer, not playing blindside was just wondering if there were any re...
You can also use it to damage through defensives involving dodge/parry, but that's pretty niche
warm lance
Are we taking Tiny Toxic Blade *and* SBS now?
if you want to
minor cape
@hearty bane i tried the build, didnt like how it plays
in shuffle
deal more damage overall w my old build
the usual rotten secret tech
really hard without invigorating 😦
shut solstice
How much healing reduction can assa rogue pump out?
Is it true that deathmark can duplicate wound poison stacks? Effectively Getting near 90%?
No way in hell right?
warm lance
healing reductions are reduced by 50% in pvp
shut solstice
So deathmark + shiv (hemo) still puts them over 60%?
warm lance
shiv doesnt stack with wound
shut solstice
Ahhhhh
Perfect. Thank you.
Max healing reduction would be around 50%
No where near as insane as I thought
warm lance
Its still very strong
warm lance
DM duped wounds yea
jaunty osprey
Remember, dampening is a thing as well
warm lance
Did one match on my destro for fun
Shits kinda hilarious when everything lines up and they let me cast, which happened alot
jaunty osprey
I still have ptsd from bfa destro locks
jolly sierra
i was trying to talk w u in btag
yeah, when they doesn't know to predict ur burst is funny af
warm lance
I played basically this same spec in prepatch already
So i only had to remember my binds for some stuff
Namely I forgot to use amplify curse all game
Shouldve gone with majority wins now that i remember it exists
wise breach
max is 40%
48%
wicked rampart
5 stacks is 20%, doubled is 40 no?
Imp wound talent
jolly sierra
5 stacks is 24%, using master envenomer
wicked rampart
plus imp off poison talent
jolly sierra
alongside imp wound talent
wicked rampart
= 24%
warm lance
well, lets see if u get a tier set
I already will have 2 charges to use for conversion so ill get 2set 100%
jolly sierra
I already will have 2 charges to use for conversion so ill get 2set 100%
niiiice
warm lance
Probably wont be using any of my conquest this reset
jolly sierra
we were dumb af wondering how DM works and interacts w poisons
warm lance
And buying stuff according to the vault
potent pivot
Yesterday Nahj said DM does not dupe Wound btw
jolly sierra
in that time we were using amp deadly
potent pivot
It dupes it on the frames but not in actuality
warm lance
Well thats kinda multi dollar company
potent pivot
Need to test 
warm lance
Need to test <:SMILERS:740284281884114975>
Wanna see something digusting?
wise breach
It absolutely does unless it was hotfixed recently
warm lance
wise breach
I've tested it myself a few weeks ago
potent pivot
I've tested it myself a few weeks ago
You tested how much healing spells did on an afflicted target?
wise breach
Yeah, in a duel
potent pivot
Hmm I wonder why he’s saying it doesn’t
wise breach
It's possible it got changed, but I feel like that would have been documented in hotfix notes
potent pivot
Same
swift adder
I got more random disconnects and bugged friends list this xpac than in my whole time playing the game
warm lance
Casual sub nerf by bugged talent
jolly sierra
nightstalker should be nerfed, way too op
warped anchor
how is it bugged
potent pivot
how is it bugged
It does nothing
potent pivot
It is 2 talent points for literally 0 effect
jaunty osprey
It does nothing
NoFunz 😦
warped anchor
nice
worthy crag
theyll fix it and then nerf the class by 8%
warm lance
I wonder would it make sub scary enough to make ppl realize its actually good
jolly sierra
do u think we will be nerfed in next reset?
or blizz will allow to let us play our toys for 1 more week?
potent pivot
I think it’s definitely a possibility, but there’s no way of knowing for certain
neon slate
Can you ever do kidney into sap?
waxen meteor
Probably next week as well but then, hmm
waxen meteor
Can you ever do kidney into sap?
Without the 15% it’s doable if the kidney one doesn’t engage right away
In df it’s impossible
warped anchor
seems a bit late for this reset
fierce laurel
Probably next week as well but then, hmm
Only if their first gcd only touches themselves.
alpine axle
48% during deathmark is actually bullshit ngl
It was never 48%, it was 43% because it was multiplicative
But idk maybe it was fixed, havent tested it recently
graceful ravine
should i buy outlaw weapon on tuesday or trinket 
want to get outlaw above 2400 in shuffles but my gear is all mastery and no weapon fml
o i guess i can use trophies to buy verse/crit drakebreaker gear
warm lance
Your gear prob at a point where you can start getting crit gear anyway?
spark egret
do u think we will be nerfed in next reset?
As long as I get to play with the 4set for a week
Then nerf whatever
tight veldt
is 4 set worth it for Sub? Rn id be sacrificing drake breaker gloves for non-pvp tier
warped anchor
no
spark egret
Is monk still good
jolly sierra
seems like
hearty bane
deal more damage overall w my old build
I figured that my shadowstrikes deal much more damage with Dark Brew, but invigorating shadowdust is too good to be just left behind
Thinking I might change my builds between the fights
jolly sierra
EU dominance
lyric onyx
we're just better
hearty bane
against two warriors
I have at least one arms in a lobby 90% of the time
tight veldt
sadge 6-0 lobby ruined by zugzug warrior brain teammate
twin burrow
Didn't eu loose WW2 till the bald eagle flew by and dropped nukes
Please don't respond as I was clearly joking , let's not start making this chat stupid 🤣
tight veldt
minor cape
I have at least one arms in a lobby 90% of the time
if there is a team of two wars against you i mean xd
waxen meteor
It seems to me solo is trying best to avoid duplicate specs in one lobby
rarely i have seen duplicate
waxen meteor
but it does seem to allow duplicate spec, when some specs are too popular
jolly sierra
just once i've saw another assa, and was panda too
waxen meteor
yeah same class is common
jolly sierra
imagine the lining lol
jolly sierra
me smash sexo match
formal marlin
sophic devo or frozen for pvp?
jolly sierra
sophic
formal marlin
ty
waxen meteor
same spec dps i have seen like twice or three times in total
healer is more common but anyway the pool is small for healers
jolly sierra
yeah w heal is common actually
waxen meteor
we got 6 specs healer in total i guess so it's unavoidable basically
tight veldt
respectfully ant to never be queued with another rogue agin
jolly sierra
i did alt f4 to blade edge loading screen
i wanna see what would happen w that
very nice it dropped me 150 CR
fuck blade edge's arena
fierce laurel
Big bridge with 6 ramps
twin burrow
No it's the one with the pillar you jump too no ropes!
jolly sierra
bridge one
well, my curiosity was fed at cost of 150 CR, but will take it back today so i dont care
waxen meteor
jolly sierra
yeah that one
waxen meteor
jolly sierra
actually that one
waxen meteor
yeah we can spring from middle of brige and get a aoe
jolly sierra
or get the fucking lock teleporting the shit out everyone, the priest and mage knocking back and the monk using rop
seems fine
waxen meteor
I hate those people dropping an aoe at middle of bridge like farting
tight veldt
i jinxed myself.... 3 rogues in 1 lobby...
waxen meteor
i jinxed myself.... 3 rogues in 1 lobby...
tight veldt
3 Rogues + Arms.... plz why
waxen meteor
lol not sure if can be counted as melee blend
hearty bane
<:otl:433007796666236958> <:sin:433007826840059916> <:sub:433007835606155265>
DR hell
Imagine being a rogue and none of your cc works
graceful ravine
god damn 2700cr isnt even top 100 for sin in eu atm
you got to 2700?
jolly sierra
queuing back, now i know can't refuse a fkn arena in shuffle, even for how disgusting it is
got the troll one
tight veldt
jesus carried those rogues EVERY fucking round
and one healer afks the last 3 games so i go 3-3
0 cr sadge
wicked rampart
Wait what
If you went 3 wins and then the healer left you would have gotten rating for 3-0
So you musta been in a super scuff mmr lobby lol
waxen meteor
afk could mean just sitting there not moving
wicked rampart
Oh tru
tight veldt
sorry thats what i mean. He just afk'd the rest of the lobby
wicked rampart
That's even more toxic than just leaving jeez lol
tight veldt
dude got tilted after we CC chained him with double kidney, double gouge, double blind
dense thorn
OMG ASS NERFS FML
twin burrow
Sauce?
dense thorn
BBQ is good
waxen meteor
Source where
twin burrow
And when
dense thorn
Nah I just felt like scaring people
waxen meteor
I just saw this
This week's NA maintenance is scheduled for 4 hours on Tuesday, January 31st from 7:00 AM PST to 11:00 AM PST.
Nothing more
waxen meteor
Nah I just felt like scaring people
dense thorn
🤭
dense thorn
Noo @potent pivot.. don’t tie me up 😜
I think only my sin got nerf cause I don’t do any damage 😂
potent pivot
jolly sierra
@potent pivot cmon colega do god's work
potent pivot
waxen meteor
dense thorn
I’m reformed.
waxen meteor
You get an icon cold blood next to your name
so we assume you want to be treated that way
twin burrow
Damn you LOOOOOPPPPP
graceful ravine
theyre gonna fix nightstalker and give us a -8% nerf at the same time
jolly sierra
cold blood = removed treatment?
twin burrow
Night stalker doesn't apply the damage ?
dense thorn
Nope
graceful ravine
nightstalker does nothing currently
waxen meteor
cheap shot dmg is increased by 8%
twin burrow
Weird. That alone makes sub scary if it's not scary already which it is
dense thorn
cheap shot dmg is increased by 8%
😂😂😂
waxen meteor
potent pivot
@dense thorn
dense thorn
2:53.
potent pivot
That’s the time atm
dense thorn
Are you in the past? Or the future?
graceful ravine
u know everybodys not in the same time zone right
lucid citrus
New patch notes up already?
wise breach
Nah
Highly doubt there's going to be any tuning this reset
More things about DM + Wound, but I don't think this is correct regardless of tooltip https://twitter.com/jaxirl/status/1620160524540608512?t=yB__SDV6l9Orb3hM9E_4_A&s=19
I'll test it tonight
tight veldt
🤔
graceful ravine
let me polish up my warrior alt...
lyric onyx
havent had as much time to play this week as i wouldve liked 😦
graceful ravine
i need to push tonight before more ppl get 4pc
lyric onyx
wanted to push higher before inevitable nerfds
graceful ravine
inc me losing 200 pts tonight
lyric onyx
before i used to hate 4 melee lobbies
now with arterial its kinda nice
always top damage
potent pivot
More things about DM + Wound, but I don't think this is correct regardless of to...
Yeah this sounds weird af
jolly sierra
got a round w an evoker, a dwarf warr and a frost mage
and a hpal
imagine the oof
tight veldt
if not for the spelling error
Fixed it. Inb4 tomorrow
tawny kestrel
its the "increase" in the first sentence mate
tight veldt
I figured it was the developers note that gave it away facepalm
waxen meteor
no dwarves or evokers etc
btw, can dwarf and voker use the bleed removal under cc?
wicked rampart
No to both iirc
waxen meteor
Man they seriously need to buff horde
final vessel
Or just remove racials in PVP instanced content
warm lance
Id be down for that
fierce laurel
Honestly a 5 second cheap shot and 30 second cooldown on kidney shot seems fair to me.
Maybe make shot in the dark talent increase duration by 1 second so people think it’s a buff for sin.
jaunty osprey
Or just remove racials in PVP instanced content
I play Tauren Rogue so that I have a handicap :^)
flint bolt
Or just remove racials in PVP instanced content
It's legitimately stupid that they still exist
fierce laurel
Does anyone remember when you could store 10 combo points but only use 5 at a time?
Was that wrath?
Or cata?
flint bolt
I have zero recollection of that, lol
tight veldt
believe it was cata w/ redirect before the combo points were any target
potent pivot
Does anyone remember when you could store 10 combo points but only use 5 at a ti...
MoP
Look up a mop sub talent tree
It was amazing
It was called Anticipation
Iirc
echo canyon
btw is assa using wound poison actively or do we use deadly since wound is applied with shiv?
thanks to hemo
potent pivot
btw is assa using wound poison actively or do we use deadly since wound is appli...
Wound+deadly. Both of em.
fierce laurel
Right. Anticipation.
echo canyon
even when specc'ed into amplifying poison?
potent pivot
even when specc'ed into amplifying poison?
You don’t spec into Amp unless you have another mortal strike on your team
And even then it’s kinda still fine to run wound+deadly
jolly sierra
got 2 matches in a row against demo lock in a shuffle
but was matched in a melee cleave so fuck him
waxen meteor
Or cata?
For sure later...
I don't recall banking 10 cps at all
ah i see anticipation already
sharp sierra
Hey guys, just a quick question, I'm quite new to assassination rogue, would anyone be able to point me in the direction of a good opener / rotation? I couldn't find anything up to date so far, many thanks
vocal surge
those nerfs for rogues is really pepega
warm lance
Has there been actual nerfs or just meme ones
spark egret
Fixed it. Inb4 tomorrow
bro
I swear to christ
cdew needs to just be banned off youtube
or is in venruki
that just complains incessantly
about every class
that he doesnt play
fuck it ban both if them to be safe
vocal surge
Not sure why Venruki keeps rating Outlaw as B tier
same w. Skill Capped
when you have to play super defensively
vocal surge
Especially when your alive on the wire itself
warm lance
Venruki is a fun guy tbh
spark egret
he's annoying as fuck
warm lance
Ive been around his stream and community for a bit but his takes are kinda pepega at times
vocal surge
it depends
warm lance
But hes a nice and fun guy
spark egret
every single youtube short
vocal surge
but when it comes to tier list
vocal surge
its kinda annoying seeing where he places some specs
spark egret
he's the embodiment of you beat me cause class OP
warm lance
Yall need to chill with taking everything streamers/youtubers say so seriously
vocal surge
tier lists influence the community a lot even if it doesnt seem like it
warm lance
Is it just an age thing or what cause I literally dont take anything anyone sais seriousl
spark egret
but you have a point
jolly sierra
give miestro more spotlight
warm lance
I can say peoples takes are fucking stupid
But I can still think theyre a decent person
spark egret
I dont think he's a bad person
spark egret
just annoying AF
warm lance
then again Ive been around many of the streamers chats since like days immemorial So i saw them before fame got to their heads
If thats happened
Might be biased af
jolly sierra
the one which i think is a piece of garbo as person is flarkness
what a disgusting human being
warm lance
I recently found him and he just feels like a big narcissist
While many of the high rated streamers just feel like theyre out of touch with the majority of the playerbase
jolly sierra
an elitist and a fucking harasser
jolly sierra
While many of the high rated streamers just feel like theyre out of touch with t...
yeah, is the ego boost from believe they are the world owners just for being r1
warm lance
No i think its more just that they are used to the higher echelon of play and have very little contacts to lower rated people
jolly sierra
nah, flarkness has contact w lower rated ppl
one guy which deleted him in a shuffle received a lot of spam from him after losing
he is the kind of guy which harasses and mock players which dared to say something to him
warm lance
Yeah Im in his discord chat and everyone else seems kinda nice but he just provokes people
wise breach
When do weekly nerf/buff notes usually come out
So far in Dragonflight it's usually been on Friday afternoon
potent pivot
Hey guys, just a quick question, I'm quite new to assassination rogue, would any...
you can check the assa pvp guide on iceyveins for rotation and priority tips, but last i checked everything else there was outdated so just an fyi
uneven grove
got 2 matches in a row against demo lock in a shuffle
how progressing on WW going?
i can't get 1.7k on my resto shaman and MW 
imho getting cr with dps is infinitely easier than with dps
jolly sierra
how progressing on WW going?
1k7, im resting rn cuz i pushed w rogue
ur tip about starting w double defensive worked like a charm dude
uneven grove
haha yeah send that 6 min fort brew out fast
uneven grove
that's nice as WW
jolly sierra
so we fucked them hard
yeah, thunderfist
anyways, maybe if i rest enough from computer will continue later
rose delta
Any recommendation for honor grinding??
novel kindle
can someone tell me the basic opener and burst for sub?
trying it for the first time
twin burrow
That happened to me and plus two leaver games when I'm 3-0 same session. I gained no rating
Also before leaver queue registered as rounds won when ppl leave, I was up 15 games
15 rounds lost won, but forever lost 
jolly sierra
happens
i lost cr in a match cuz i got 2 garbo healers in a lobby
both were 600cr and 1300 respectively
and one of them matched w me yesterday and literal was unable to hold a warrior burst after i got stunned twice (trinketing 1 ofc)
jolly sierra
take a rest dude
brittle glen
for assassination why do people run poison build instead of kingbane in arenas? kb has more burst
potent pivot
for assassination why do people run poison build instead of kingbane in arenas? ...
kingsbane is too easily countered, it has a long duration and has to ramp
DTB is very strong utility wise
deadly+wound and crippling+numbing is ridiculous in arena
brittle glen
ye, but my primary focus is 2v2s. Will dtb still be better or is it mainly a 3v3 thing
potent pivot
ye, but my primary focus is 2v2s. Will dtb still be better or is it mainly a 3v3...
it's an everywhere thing
you might see some success with KB in 2s but i'm pretty sure DTB will get you further
brittle glen
ight, ty
graceful ravine
toxic lobby
im fucked
never pressing deathmark
might as well not pick the talent
jolly sierra
bad ending
graceful ravine
2-4 😦
jaunty osprey
tbh sometimes you get a lot of value by not pressing death mark in shuffle
enemies hold their CDs because you still have it and your teammates can pop off
it’s the threat of having it available that gets you advantages in shuffle
graceful ravine
til u face 2x evoker, surv, and dwarf frost mage
they were not holding cds cos they could rotate it
jolly sierra
god that is a fkn nightmare
jaunty osprey
I’d run exsang vs that an exsang the opener without deathmark
jolly sierra
makes honor to that elite vicious gladiator set
jaunty osprey
well, at least the hunter trinketed :^)
graceful ravine
think i need to hold bomb/exsang/deathmark into comps like that
and only use it for the kill
jolly sierra
have u tried kingsbane w those comps?
lyric onyx
toxic lobby
That mitchjones on the mage?
graceful ravine
No idea
graceful ravine
i played with hansol the game before too lol
potent pivot
hansol the goat
lyric onyx
I don’t know any EU streamers so I never recognise anyone in my games
I mean I know pshero and Whaazz, but they’re both rogues … still, they’d all probably be a lil bit too high for me still
graceful ravine
pumpers
lyric onyx
Huge
jolly sierra
@graceful ravine u ok?
jaunty osprey
WELLNESS CHECK
jolly sierra
NICE
jolly sierra
u are back then